WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.080 This is the likely story that I always get told. 00:00:03.259 --> 00:00:05.879 I was in a hallway, and when you arrived, several 00:00:05.879 --> 00:00:08.140 other people, you're a popular guy, is the moral 00:00:08.140 --> 00:00:11.740 of the story, approached us in a way that made 00:00:11.740 --> 00:00:13.939 you think I had set up an ambush. Well, they 00:00:13.939 --> 00:00:19.460 approached us in a rather menacing way and literally 00:00:19.460 --> 00:00:25.079 surrounded me. Welcome to County Connection. 00:00:25.399 --> 00:00:27.239 the official podcast of the Washington State 00:00:27.239 --> 00:00:29.660 Association of Counties, where we dive into the 00:00:29.660 --> 00:00:31.640 legislative issues shaping the future of our 00:00:31.640 --> 00:00:34.500 communities. From budgets to public safety, infrastructure 00:00:34.500 --> 00:00:37.439 to elections, we'll break down what's happening 00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:40.219 in Olympia and how it impacts counties from across 00:00:40.219 --> 00:00:43.320 the Evergreen State. Stay informed, stay engaged, 00:00:43.460 --> 00:00:46.320 and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:52.670 39 counties. Welcome, everybody, to the County 00:00:52.670 --> 00:00:55.390 Connection podcast, the official podcast of the 00:00:55.390 --> 00:00:57.289 Washington State Association of Counties. I am 00:00:57.289 --> 00:00:59.850 Paul Jewell, the host and government relations 00:00:59.850 --> 00:01:04.670 director for WASAC. I'm here today with a very 00:01:04.670 --> 00:01:07.930 special guest, Skippy Shaw with the Nature Conservancy. 00:01:08.189 --> 00:01:10.890 Welcome, Skippy. I think this is the first time 00:01:10.890 --> 00:01:13.750 you've ever been on our podcast. Is that right? 00:01:13.950 --> 00:01:16.430 That is correct, Paul. How many podcasts have 00:01:16.430 --> 00:01:20.599 you been on in your life? I can't recall another 00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:24.400 one. So this is your first podcast ever. I think 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:28.219 so. This is an exciting moment. I do have, this 00:01:28.219 --> 00:01:31.349 is a weird story for me to tell, but. My husband 00:01:31.349 --> 00:01:34.170 does a sports podcast, and when we were early 00:01:34.170 --> 00:01:37.230 dating, I used to force him to do a pretend podcast 00:01:37.230 --> 00:01:39.609 with just me and him about football kickers. 00:01:39.689 --> 00:01:42.069 Really? Why? That no one will ever listen to. 00:01:42.069 --> 00:01:46.189 Why did you do that? Because I really enjoy talking 00:01:46.189 --> 00:01:50.569 about kickers, and he hates them. So that's my 00:01:50.569 --> 00:01:52.329 only experience. I feel like we need to dive 00:01:52.329 --> 00:01:54.650 into that a lot deeper. I did come up with a 00:01:54.650 --> 00:01:57.069 theme song, and I think the name of the podcast 00:01:57.069 --> 00:02:01.180 was Colonels of Glory. Colonels of Glory. Yeah. 00:02:01.299 --> 00:02:04.219 So since you mentioned your husband's podcast, 00:02:04.299 --> 00:02:07.079 what is the actual podcast of your husband? He 00:02:07.079 --> 00:02:12.319 is a host on the fantasy football podcast for 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:15.379 theringer .com. Okay. So if we've got any fantasy 00:02:15.379 --> 00:02:17.740 football fans out there amongst our county commissioners, 00:02:17.759 --> 00:02:20.939 you can have a new podcast to check out. Danny 00:02:20.939 --> 00:02:23.560 Kelly. All right. Shout out to Danny Kelly. Yeah. 00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:28.349 He's going to love this. good you're out promoting 00:02:28.349 --> 00:02:30.969 look at you good for you you're a good partner 00:02:30.969 --> 00:02:34.930 he does not need my promotion well skippy thanks 00:02:34.930 --> 00:02:37.919 for joining us yes appreciate it um You know, 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:40.300 we've had this podcast going for a while now, 00:02:40.419 --> 00:02:43.120 and this time of year, of course, we are in the 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:45.340 thick of the legislative session. I shouldn't 00:02:45.340 --> 00:02:47.759 really say that. It's still the first week, but 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:50.159 it's a short session, so it feels like the thick 00:02:50.159 --> 00:02:53.879 of it. And you and I worked together a lot during 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:55.680 the legislative session, at least we have in 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:58.840 the past, on a whole host of issues, a lot of 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:02.340 which tend to focus around timber and some other 00:03:02.340 --> 00:03:04.919 natural resource -based stuff. Oftentimes, we're 00:03:04.919 --> 00:03:08.840 battling for the same thing. pot of money over 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:10.939 there in the capital budget for a project you 00:03:10.939 --> 00:03:13.639 want or a project that I want or maybe one that 00:03:13.639 --> 00:03:16.379 we both want something like that but we're working 00:03:16.379 --> 00:03:19.259 together this year on another initiative and 00:03:19.259 --> 00:03:21.060 I thought it'd be really cool if you came by 00:03:21.060 --> 00:03:24.099 to talk about it so even though I didn't give 00:03:24.099 --> 00:03:27.759 you really much of a choice ambush but thanks 00:03:27.759 --> 00:03:32.259 for coming anyways yeah I'm happy to chat yeah 00:03:32.259 --> 00:03:33.979 well you were here last week and you had a chance 00:03:33.979 --> 00:03:35.800 to talk with our legislative steering committee 00:03:35.800 --> 00:03:39.280 members about it as well but the issue is really 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:42.240 funding for wildfire and for forest health treatments 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:44.620 and for wildfire preparedness why don't you give 00:03:44.620 --> 00:03:47.139 us a little bit of a rundown yes so this is all 00:03:47.139 --> 00:03:49.580 about a commitment the legislature actually made 00:03:49.580 --> 00:03:53.180 in 2021 with the passage of house bill 1168 and 00:03:53.180 --> 00:03:55.879 they passed it unanimously bipartisan support 00:03:55.879 --> 00:03:58.659 it was a bill was in support of that as well 00:03:58.659 --> 00:04:01.800 yeah you worked very hard on it and it was a 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:04.159 commitment by the legislature to fund every two 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:08.009 years forest health wildfire response and community 00:04:08.009 --> 00:04:10.370 resilience to address our wildfire and forest 00:04:10.370 --> 00:04:13.669 health crises at the level of $125 million for 00:04:13.669 --> 00:04:15.710 the biennium, because that's how we mapped out 00:04:15.710 --> 00:04:17.649 how we had to scale up the work and get it done 00:04:17.649 --> 00:04:20.870 what we needed. Now, that worked great when we 00:04:20.870 --> 00:04:23.550 had more funding in the general fund, but when 00:04:23.550 --> 00:04:26.009 the budgets got tough last year, it was hard 00:04:26.009 --> 00:04:28.810 to meet that commitment. I empathize with that, 00:04:28.889 --> 00:04:31.810 but we got a cut of $60 million for that good 00:04:31.810 --> 00:04:34.839 work. And that translates to real things for 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:37.639 real people and real risk to community. So we 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:39.899 are coming back together, the group that fought 00:04:39.899 --> 00:04:42.259 for the passage of the bill, to show that these 00:04:42.259 --> 00:04:44.519 dollars have gotten on the ground. We still care 00:04:44.519 --> 00:04:47.379 deeply about them. And even in tough budget times, 00:04:47.459 --> 00:04:50.439 it needs to continue to be a priority. You know, 00:04:50.459 --> 00:04:53.040 we couldn't agree more. And our legislative steering 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:56.660 committee endorsed this policy and certainly 00:04:56.660 --> 00:05:00.509 supported. Your work and then also WASAC putting 00:05:00.509 --> 00:05:02.910 some resources behind this, which we plan to 00:05:02.910 --> 00:05:04.970 do. We'll be cooperating with you guys this year. 00:05:06.589 --> 00:05:09.009 We see this as really important funding as well 00:05:09.009 --> 00:05:11.430 for all the reasons that you mentioned. On top 00:05:11.430 --> 00:05:14.110 of the fact that, well, there's a couple of things 00:05:14.110 --> 00:05:15.870 that are really important to us. First of all, 00:05:15.970 --> 00:05:19.129 the state of our forests in Washington state 00:05:19.129 --> 00:05:22.629 has deteriorated over the last, you know, several 00:05:22.629 --> 00:05:25.930 decades, 50 years probably, to a point where. 00:05:27.189 --> 00:05:30.089 these wildfires, when they start, they're hard 00:05:30.089 --> 00:05:33.629 to stop. They're hard to contain. And the intensity 00:05:33.629 --> 00:05:36.269 of the wildfires that we're seeing today, because 00:05:36.269 --> 00:05:40.829 of past suppression tactics, right, and because 00:05:40.829 --> 00:05:45.790 of past forestry strategies and forestry policies 00:05:45.790 --> 00:05:50.370 that have resulted in many landscapes now that 00:05:50.370 --> 00:05:53.810 are overstocked and completely neglected, we 00:05:53.810 --> 00:05:58.120 just... You know, we're ripe for really, really 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:01.089 dramatic events. By dramatic events, I mean not 00:06:01.089 --> 00:06:03.949 good dramatic events. And we've seen some of 00:06:03.949 --> 00:06:06.889 those already. And, you know, if you think back 00:06:06.889 --> 00:06:10.410 to the Labor Day fire a couple years ago, think 00:06:10.410 --> 00:06:12.990 back to the big fires in central Washington that 00:06:12.990 --> 00:06:15.370 we've seen in the last few years, and then even 00:06:15.370 --> 00:06:18.629 in the two most recent years, a lot more wildfires 00:06:18.629 --> 00:06:20.990 on the west side of the state as well. You combine 00:06:20.990 --> 00:06:23.970 those conditions with climate change, right, 00:06:24.110 --> 00:06:27.550 and retiming of moisture and a reduced snowpack 00:06:27.550 --> 00:06:31.050 and things like that. that uh and we have to 00:06:31.050 --> 00:06:33.709 do something right or or we're going to be too 00:06:33.709 --> 00:06:39.689 late um and what we worry about is if we don't 00:06:39.689 --> 00:06:43.589 continue this investment we're going to go backwards 00:06:43.589 --> 00:06:45.670 yeah and lose all the progress that we've made 00:06:45.670 --> 00:06:50.290 yeah uh and we're really kind of signing our 00:06:50.290 --> 00:06:52.850 fate into the future of going to be too late 00:06:52.850 --> 00:06:58.689 yeah it's scary and So it's tough when you're 00:06:58.689 --> 00:07:01.589 living with hard budget dynamics, but something 00:07:01.589 --> 00:07:04.310 we reinforce when we're talking to our legislators 00:07:04.310 --> 00:07:07.389 is they're going to pay for this in a much bigger 00:07:07.389 --> 00:07:09.610 bill if they don't make these investments now. 00:07:09.730 --> 00:07:13.350 We show that these dollars get you an eightfold 00:07:13.350 --> 00:07:15.410 return on that investment. For a dollar you spend, 00:07:15.509 --> 00:07:19.860 you get $8 in impact back. If you don't fully 00:07:19.860 --> 00:07:22.839 fund this, modeling shows the state can expect 00:07:22.839 --> 00:07:25.560 like $1 billion in bills coming their way from 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:27.860 a variety of sources, in particular the suppression 00:07:27.860 --> 00:07:30.079 costs. It's a lot cheaper to prevent than it 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:34.360 is to suppress, right? To react to a wildfire, 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:37.519 to put it out. And the costs in the suppression 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:39.339 are just part of it. It's the recovery that... 00:07:39.550 --> 00:07:41.670 costs a bunch of money on top of that. And if 00:07:41.670 --> 00:07:43.970 you can avoid all of those costs with just an 00:07:43.970 --> 00:07:45.970 ounce of prevention, everyone's better off, right? 00:07:46.269 --> 00:07:49.009 Yeah. And even the specific modeling we did around 00:07:49.009 --> 00:07:51.709 this specific funding and in our state shows 00:07:51.709 --> 00:07:53.949 also when we do these dollars, we're not only 00:07:53.949 --> 00:07:57.029 saving for a bigger bill down the road and reducing 00:07:57.029 --> 00:08:01.050 our risk for our communities, but we can model 00:08:01.050 --> 00:08:03.850 that we can reduce tens of thousands of acres 00:08:03.850 --> 00:08:06.149 of catastrophic wildfire when we're doing this. 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:08.699 forest health work this resilience work and getting 00:08:08.699 --> 00:08:11.620 a response ready yeah so the the three components 00:08:11.620 --> 00:08:15.740 of this are you know better suppression um preparedness 00:08:15.740 --> 00:08:19.519 response equipment things like that at dnr Investments 00:08:19.519 --> 00:08:22.500 in local communities, so training for the local 00:08:22.500 --> 00:08:24.660 communities and equipment for the local communities 00:08:24.660 --> 00:08:29.060 so their fire folks are ready, capable, and able 00:08:29.060 --> 00:08:32.200 to respond. And then the fire suppression pieces 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:34.840 around forest health treatments, whether it's 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:40.399 thinning or ladder fuel removal or shaded fuel 00:08:40.399 --> 00:08:43.100 break creation, different strategies like that. 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:46.080 And you guys actually at the agency do a lot 00:08:46.080 --> 00:08:48.480 of that work. um on your own lands don't you 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:50.480 on the nature conservancy yes we've actually 00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.960 put $1168 on the ground on our own lands to create 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:57.279 fire breaks to help protect nearby communities. 00:08:57.279 --> 00:08:59.320 And you do some prescribed burns too, right? 00:08:59.340 --> 00:09:01.200 Yes, we love prescribed burns. Which is a big 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:04.279 tool here. Yeah. Why don't we talk about that 00:09:04.279 --> 00:09:05.980 briefly? Yeah, I would love to. Why is prescribed 00:09:05.980 --> 00:09:08.659 burns such an important piece? Because fire is 00:09:08.659 --> 00:09:10.879 a piece of the landscape. Most of our state, 00:09:11.019 --> 00:09:12.899 maybe not as much the west side, but the east 00:09:12.899 --> 00:09:15.679 side is a fire adapted landscape. It needs fire 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:17.659 in a lot of ways. And when we prevented fire 00:09:17.659 --> 00:09:22.009 from being on the ground. in that low, slow form 00:09:22.009 --> 00:09:25.029 it could take if it was off and intermittent 00:09:25.029 --> 00:09:28.809 and used accordingly. That really kept up the 00:09:28.809 --> 00:09:30.649 health of our forest, and we started to suppress 00:09:30.649 --> 00:09:33.190 too much of it. And we forgot the use, especially 00:09:33.190 --> 00:09:35.070 by a lot of our indigenous communities. They 00:09:35.070 --> 00:09:36.830 knew how to use fire on the ground. They knew 00:09:36.830 --> 00:09:38.230 the tool. They didn't need it for the landscape. 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:41.779 We've neglected that, suppressed it as a practice 00:09:41.779 --> 00:09:44.899 for far too long. We just felt momentum shift 00:09:44.899 --> 00:09:47.740 on the embracing of what we call good fire, prescribed 00:09:47.740 --> 00:09:51.259 fire in the last decade. And a lot of that was 00:09:51.259 --> 00:09:55.440 funded by 1168. The training exchanges, the support 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:58.600 for prescribed burn associations, just getting 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:00.480 more staff at Department of Natural Resources 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:03.580 doing prescribed fire work. all that is getting 00:10:03.580 --> 00:10:05.639 lost with these cuts. But prescribed fire is 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:08.220 just such a cool, powerful tool for thinning 00:10:08.220 --> 00:10:11.419 out forests, for getting those underbrushed young 00:10:11.419 --> 00:10:13.559 trees, getting those cleared out so you really 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:15.460 have forests looking like they really are historically 00:10:15.460 --> 00:10:20.220 looked, which is not jam -packed. And we show 00:10:20.220 --> 00:10:23.019 that forest health work is great, but when you 00:10:23.019 --> 00:10:26.799 match it with prescribed fire, when you get that 00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:29.190 catastrophic fire coming through, the... The 00:10:29.190 --> 00:10:32.009 catastrophic fire changes behavior dramatically. 00:10:32.389 --> 00:10:35.929 It slows down. It rolls low. It becomes way less 00:10:35.929 --> 00:10:37.230 risky for communities. Yeah, you don't get it 00:10:37.230 --> 00:10:39.529 climbing into the crown to the trees. It just 00:10:39.529 --> 00:10:42.830 burns around the base of the trees. I can tell 00:10:42.830 --> 00:10:46.889 you, I've hiked through. I've been an avid hiker 00:10:46.889 --> 00:10:48.570 for most of my adult life and I've hiked through 00:10:48.570 --> 00:10:50.649 a lot of areas, both in central Washington, North, 00:10:50.690 --> 00:10:52.610 you know, Northeast Washington, the Northern 00:10:52.610 --> 00:10:55.350 Cascades, Western Washington, et cetera. And 00:10:55.350 --> 00:10:57.830 sometimes I deliberately hike in areas that have 00:10:57.830 --> 00:10:59.929 had recent fire. Yeah. Just to kind of see the 00:10:59.929 --> 00:11:01.809 landscape differences. And look for more else. 00:11:02.250 --> 00:11:05.309 Yeah. Well, there's that too. Don't tell anybody, 00:11:05.409 --> 00:11:07.809 but the huckleberries come back first as well. 00:11:07.830 --> 00:11:09.250 Oh, that's good to know. And they come back fast. 00:11:09.870 --> 00:11:14.190 And when there's an open canopy, sometimes like 00:11:14.190 --> 00:11:17.110 commercial blueberry size. I'm not going to tell 00:11:17.110 --> 00:11:19.350 you where they are, but I had the most prolific 00:11:19.350 --> 00:11:22.190 huckleberry picking year this year I've had in 00:11:22.190 --> 00:11:25.940 years. It was crazy. I got like. I went two trips 00:11:25.940 --> 00:11:28.080 and I got three gallons. And what did you make? 00:11:28.220 --> 00:11:31.039 What did you go to? Oh, well, Huckleberry Pancakes, 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.879 of course. Oh, that sounds delightful. And then 00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:36.559 Huckleberry Cobbler. But we digress. Yeah, sorry. 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:41.100 Getting back to prescribed fire, walking through 00:11:41.100 --> 00:11:44.769 a landscape that was overstocked. and had not 00:11:44.769 --> 00:11:47.470 had these treatments, right? It had a lot of 00:11:47.470 --> 00:11:50.330 ladder fuels on the ground where the fire got 00:11:50.330 --> 00:11:52.190 into the crowns of the trees and just devastated 00:11:52.190 --> 00:11:54.909 the forest. It's a dramatically different experience 00:11:54.909 --> 00:11:59.330 even five or ten years after the fire than walking 00:11:59.330 --> 00:12:02.830 through a healthy forest that has very large 00:12:02.830 --> 00:12:05.169 trees where the trunks are actually separated, 00:12:05.409 --> 00:12:07.929 right? Where there is distance between the trunks 00:12:07.929 --> 00:12:11.230 themselves, between the stems, and where... um 00:12:11.230 --> 00:12:14.590 work has taken place over the years to keep those 00:12:14.590 --> 00:12:17.830 ladder fuels down i walked through this was just 00:12:17.830 --> 00:12:21.190 a few years ago i was at skimini lodge for a 00:12:21.190 --> 00:12:24.610 conference and i had an opportunity the pacific 00:12:24.610 --> 00:12:26.919 crest trail comes down actually to the Columbia 00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:29.360 Gorge right there on both sides of the river. 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:32.480 I don't know if you've ever had a chance to jump 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:34.500 on it there, but you can jump on it there and 00:12:34.500 --> 00:12:36.620 then climb up. You go over the Bridge of the 00:12:36.620 --> 00:12:38.379 Gods if you want to, and you can go that way, 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:41.480 or you can stay on the Washington side. And a 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:44.639 fire had just gone through an area in that region 00:12:44.639 --> 00:12:47.059 in the gorge where the Pacific Crest Trail was, 00:12:47.379 --> 00:12:50.519 and they had done some treatments near there 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:53.460 a few years before. And there's just beautiful 00:12:53.460 --> 00:12:56.440 old growth dug for... trees in there and you 00:12:56.440 --> 00:13:00.340 could see um within the last two years the the 00:13:00.340 --> 00:13:03.340 scars were still on the trees right uh and they 00:13:03.340 --> 00:13:07.480 were 40 feet up but the trees were all alive 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:11.500 yeah and the forest was already coming back it 00:13:11.500 --> 00:13:15.799 was that dramatic right after two years whereas 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:18.710 you go to central washington on the east slopes 00:13:18.710 --> 00:13:20.669 of the Cascades where some of the pine forests 00:13:20.669 --> 00:13:22.909 were, where a lot of the devastating fires have 00:13:22.909 --> 00:13:25.269 occurred over the last several years. And even 00:13:25.269 --> 00:13:27.850 six or seven years later, those places look like 00:13:27.850 --> 00:13:30.850 a bomb went off. Yes. Right? Because they were 00:13:30.850 --> 00:13:35.690 so badly burned. The heat and the size of the 00:13:35.690 --> 00:13:38.110 fire and the flame lengths just destroyed all 00:13:38.110 --> 00:13:40.529 the trees and sterilized the soils in many places 00:13:40.529 --> 00:13:41.990 where it's going to take a lot longer for it 00:13:41.990 --> 00:13:42.809 to come back. Yeah, you're not going to get those 00:13:42.809 --> 00:13:44.409 seeds coming back and you're probably going to 00:13:44.409 --> 00:13:46.850 have to do some intentional seed replanting work. 00:13:47.019 --> 00:13:49.460 So that kind of treatment that you're talking 00:13:49.460 --> 00:13:52.559 about, right, that we have taken off of the landscape 00:13:52.559 --> 00:13:56.840 over the years, that we know that indigenous 00:13:56.840 --> 00:14:00.960 residents used as a tool, that we know that, 00:14:00.980 --> 00:14:05.139 frankly, Mother Nature uses and used as a tool. 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:10.559 Our landscape has been essentially shaped by 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:13.799 fire in the Pacific Northwest, especially before. 00:14:14.409 --> 00:14:17.789 We came here, and we've changed so much of that. 00:14:17.889 --> 00:14:21.629 We need this funding to correct a lot of those 00:14:21.629 --> 00:14:23.809 practices and correct that landscape back to 00:14:23.809 --> 00:14:26.230 a more healthy environment that's more fire resilient. 00:14:27.410 --> 00:14:30.009 And if folks haven't seen it, I'd highly recommend 00:14:30.009 --> 00:14:32.870 there's a good TED Talk by a scientist, Paul 00:14:32.870 --> 00:14:34.789 Hesburgh, that really breaks down what he calls 00:14:34.789 --> 00:14:36.210 the tree problem for our state. Anybody named 00:14:36.210 --> 00:14:37.769 Paul is going to give a good talk. I know. I 00:14:37.769 --> 00:14:40.129 thought you'd like that little nod. But it's 00:14:40.129 --> 00:14:43.149 a really good recap of the science that shows. 00:14:43.269 --> 00:14:46.049 And a lot of imagery showing us examples of what 00:14:46.049 --> 00:14:48.590 our forests look like when they were actually 00:14:48.590 --> 00:14:51.710 in that fire adapted state. And people look at 00:14:51.710 --> 00:14:56.639 landscape and they see a jam packed tree. And 00:14:56.639 --> 00:14:58.340 they're like, that's beautiful. And actually, 00:14:58.399 --> 00:15:00.139 our forest didn't really look like that. No, 00:15:00.139 --> 00:15:02.440 there was a lot more broken canopy. Yeah. And 00:15:02.440 --> 00:15:05.539 a lot more variable age stands versus single 00:15:05.539 --> 00:15:08.580 age stands that we have now. In many areas, it's 00:15:08.580 --> 00:15:11.080 a monoculture compared to what was on the ground 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:15.279 in the past with a lot more variety. All interesting 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.820 stuff. We've digressed a little bit, but it just 00:15:18.820 --> 00:15:21.580 kind of goes back to why this funding around 00:15:21.580 --> 00:15:24.159 that original House Bill 1168 is so important 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:27.379 and why cutting that funding is so potentially 00:15:27.379 --> 00:15:31.379 devastating. Where is the legislature going to 00:15:31.379 --> 00:15:35.100 get the money, right? Every podcast that I'm 00:15:35.100 --> 00:15:37.399 talking about right now during the legislative 00:15:37.399 --> 00:15:41.299 session about legislation. It almost always comes 00:15:41.299 --> 00:15:43.539 back to money anyways, but even now, because 00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:48.279 of the budget situation, it's even more so. If 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:51.450 we're asking them to... To fill another 60 million 00:15:51.450 --> 00:15:54.250 bucks, right? That's not a small chunk of change. 00:15:54.490 --> 00:15:56.289 No, it's not. Where is it going to come from? 00:15:56.730 --> 00:15:58.970 You know, they've got a new piggy bank over there 00:15:58.970 --> 00:16:01.750 in the Climate Commitment Act. Is it going to 00:16:01.750 --> 00:16:04.210 come from CCA dollars or is it going to come 00:16:04.210 --> 00:16:06.789 from somewhere else? Have you guys weighed in 00:16:06.789 --> 00:16:08.809 on that? Have you made recommendations on where 00:16:08.809 --> 00:16:10.370 you think they should be able to get the money? 00:16:10.970 --> 00:16:14.950 For this year in particular. We want to be clear 00:16:14.950 --> 00:16:17.169 on what the cuts mean, and that's our lead message. 00:16:17.389 --> 00:16:21.529 Like, you're having a tough budget year, budget 00:16:21.529 --> 00:16:24.389 writers. You know what your resources are. We 00:16:24.389 --> 00:16:26.950 just want to show you the why. Now, that's not 00:16:26.950 --> 00:16:28.710 always fair to budget writers. I agree with your 00:16:28.710 --> 00:16:32.509 point. So long story short, when 1168 was passed, 00:16:33.389 --> 00:16:35.590 we certainly had a lot more cash on hand. So 00:16:35.590 --> 00:16:37.289 when it didn't have a dedicated funding source, 00:16:37.409 --> 00:16:39.730 it was workable. When it depended on those general 00:16:39.730 --> 00:16:41.450 funds, it was workable. That's obviously not 00:16:41.450 --> 00:16:43.889 workable. Yeah, in the last few years, they've 00:16:43.889 --> 00:16:45.850 been raining money over there. I know they would 00:16:45.850 --> 00:16:51.850 never admit to that. But, I mean, it had been 00:16:51.850 --> 00:16:54.090 raining money on the legislature the last few 00:16:54.090 --> 00:16:58.750 years before we got to 2025. And now that we 00:16:58.750 --> 00:17:02.500 can't count on, you know... Quite a chunk of 00:17:02.500 --> 00:17:04.859 change being left for discretionary spending 00:17:04.859 --> 00:17:07.740 with the general fund. Yeah, the real question 00:17:07.740 --> 00:17:10.079 over our heads, it's a longer -term question, 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:12.900 is we probably need a dedicated funding source 00:17:12.900 --> 00:17:15.039 to continue this work at the scale we know we 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:17.299 need. Now, what that dedicated funding source 00:17:17.299 --> 00:17:19.660 is, I think there's a lot of different conversations 00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:21.619 happening. There's including some bills in the 00:17:21.619 --> 00:17:24.779 legislature thinking of ideas. Those aren't going 00:17:24.779 --> 00:17:27.900 to solve our issue and our cut this year. DNR 00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:29.880 originally proposed a dedicated funding source. 00:17:30.419 --> 00:17:33.519 for this particular bill, this strategy. One 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:35.039 of the first bills, yeah. One of the very first 00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:38.019 ones that they proposed. I think it was an extra 00:17:38.019 --> 00:17:42.400 excise tax on... Wasn't it on the homeowners 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:44.960 insurance? I am not sure those details because 00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:47.160 you were around at this point and I was not yet. 00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:49.539 Oh, you're calling me the old man. Yes, I am. 00:17:49.779 --> 00:17:51.680 But there have been some ideas. Someone called 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:54.559 me old Wasak yesterday. Well, now I'm going to 00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:57.599 call you old Wasak. Uh -oh. I should have never 00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:59.940 admitted that. But I also will say that the conversations 00:17:59.940 --> 00:18:02.059 we're having and some of the work we're doing 00:18:02.059 --> 00:18:04.519 to research different funding sources, this was 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:09.349 all like, you know. 2018, 2019. Those are very 00:18:09.349 --> 00:18:11.529 different times. So I think we need to probably 00:18:11.529 --> 00:18:13.609 restart that conversation and figure out what 00:18:13.609 --> 00:18:15.650 makes sense considering the current budget dynamics 00:18:15.650 --> 00:18:17.990 and the current changes in the budget. And I 00:18:17.990 --> 00:18:20.589 think I really appreciate how many legislators 00:18:20.589 --> 00:18:24.130 recognize a dedicated funding need for this and 00:18:24.130 --> 00:18:26.569 are putting together proposals. We will be engaged 00:18:26.569 --> 00:18:29.670 in those conversations, but my focus is making 00:18:29.670 --> 00:18:32.769 sure the legislature... understands what those 00:18:32.769 --> 00:18:35.210 cuts have meant for communities because that'll 00:18:35.210 --> 00:18:36.470 help give them the information they need for 00:18:36.470 --> 00:18:38.390 how to prioritize and how to decide these. And 00:18:38.390 --> 00:18:41.450 I should say, in the governor's proposal, he 00:18:41.450 --> 00:18:44.730 did restore $30 million back from the Natural 00:18:44.730 --> 00:18:47.369 Climate Solutions account. That's a cap -and 00:18:47.369 --> 00:18:52.009 -invest revenue account, sourced revenue, sourced 00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:56.250 account. Yeah, you got it right. And I'll say, 00:18:56.490 --> 00:19:00.470 I don't... I don't think a dependence between 00:19:00.470 --> 00:19:03.569 this commitment and the work needed on Climate 00:19:03.569 --> 00:19:05.809 Commitment Act revenue is a good idea because 00:19:05.809 --> 00:19:08.309 that is short -term funding that will be depleted 00:19:08.309 --> 00:19:11.950 every year. But it's certainly in the description 00:19:11.950 --> 00:19:13.730 of the Natural Climate Solutions account for 00:19:13.730 --> 00:19:15.809 the Climate Commitment Act. Yeah, it's an appropriate 00:19:15.809 --> 00:19:17.369 use of the funds, right? It's an absolutely appropriate 00:19:17.369 --> 00:19:20.859 use. When you say this doesn't have a dedicated 00:19:20.859 --> 00:19:22.759 funding source, basically what you're saying 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.019 is the decision to continue to fund it at the 00:19:26.019 --> 00:19:29.500 $125 million level per biennium is really subject 00:19:29.500 --> 00:19:33.539 to the whim of the legislature. But even if it 00:19:33.539 --> 00:19:36.059 gets a dedicated funding source, and by that 00:19:36.059 --> 00:19:39.440 you mean some sort of new revenue that is passed 00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:41.799 or maybe even existing revenue that's assigned 00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:44.660 to it, that's not a guarantee that the legislature 00:19:44.660 --> 00:19:48.259 will continue to fund it at that level. in the 00:19:48.259 --> 00:19:51.259 future, you know, those dedicated revenue sources 00:19:51.259 --> 00:19:53.599 can be swept up during difficult times and put 00:19:53.599 --> 00:19:55.359 to other means. We certainly both experienced 00:19:55.359 --> 00:20:00.299 that situation. And that's why I don't think 00:20:00.299 --> 00:20:03.160 any of us forgot this, but I do feel that a lot 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:07.700 of us learned last year the importance of the 00:20:07.700 --> 00:20:11.940 band we'd built for the pastors of 1168. We probably 00:20:11.940 --> 00:20:18.180 needed to stay in some sort of coalition space 00:20:18.180 --> 00:20:21.079 long term should have done did a gig at least 00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:23.019 once every six months you know just a reunion 00:20:23.019 --> 00:20:28.180 gig once a year because can i be the bass player 00:20:28.180 --> 00:20:31.440 i always wanted to be a bass player do the i 00:20:31.440 --> 00:20:34.119 don't know i can't do any instrument can i be 00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:37.119 in the background clapping you know there's always 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:40.559 the tambourine i can't even or the cowbell Okay, 00:20:40.619 --> 00:20:42.380 I can do the cowbell. I can absolutely do the 00:20:42.380 --> 00:20:44.920 cowbell. Think Saturday Night Live, Will Ferrell, 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:49.160 more cowbell. And everyone equates me with him. 00:20:49.539 --> 00:20:54.440 We're like two kindred spirits. No, I think cowbell 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:58.630 for me for sure. We experience this with a lot 00:20:58.630 --> 00:21:00.970 of big things that have happened. We get it done. 00:21:01.130 --> 00:21:03.769 We're like, great, this is cool. We did it. And 00:21:03.769 --> 00:21:06.730 actually, it's a follow -through. It's the yearly 00:21:06.730 --> 00:21:10.009 work. It's a reminder that really keeps the work 00:21:10.009 --> 00:21:13.490 going, gets the work done. And last year, I think 00:21:13.490 --> 00:21:17.730 we had a lot of stuff on our plates with a dramatic 00:21:17.730 --> 00:21:21.930 change in a budget reality. And this year, we 00:21:21.930 --> 00:21:24.650 took a breath in interim and realized... You 00:21:24.650 --> 00:21:26.730 know, if we come back stronger together, we can 00:21:26.730 --> 00:21:28.549 probably protect some of these dollars in this 00:21:28.549 --> 00:21:31.349 commitment. Yeah. Okay. Well, thanks for coming 00:21:31.349 --> 00:21:33.450 by, Skippy. It's good to see you. I'm so glad 00:21:33.450 --> 00:21:38.029 that I got ambushed. Just to remind everybody, 00:21:38.289 --> 00:21:40.490 what does the Nature Conservancy do? Oh, yes. 00:21:40.589 --> 00:21:44.150 We are a global conservation nonprofit. We are 00:21:44.150 --> 00:21:47.089 all over the world. In Washington, we own and 00:21:47.089 --> 00:21:50.670 manage over 70 ,000 acres. We do science. We 00:21:50.670 --> 00:21:52.930 do on -the -ground forest management. We do prescribed 00:21:52.930 --> 00:21:55.609 fire burns ourselves. I have a wonderful team 00:21:55.609 --> 00:21:59.819 that works on state policy. I don't know what 00:21:59.819 --> 00:22:01.700 else, Paul. What's your role over there? I'm 00:22:01.700 --> 00:22:03.720 the State Government Relations Director. Okay. 00:22:03.740 --> 00:22:05.140 We probably should have done that at the beginning. 00:22:05.279 --> 00:22:07.279 No. Everyone wants to hear it at the very end. 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:11.640 All right. Well, thanks for coming by. I know 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:13.579 that this was a little bit of a surprise, but 00:22:13.579 --> 00:22:16.940 you did fantastic. Sure. And if folks want to 00:22:16.940 --> 00:22:19.359 reach out to their legislators or they want to 00:22:19.359 --> 00:22:21.619 do something to help us with the 1168 funding, 00:22:21.700 --> 00:22:23.660 what can they do? We are going to have a lobby 00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:26.000 day of anyone and everyone that cares about this 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:30.029 funding on January 29th. welcome so not next 00:22:30.029 --> 00:22:31.990 week but the following week yes that's right 00:22:31.990 --> 00:22:34.890 okay and we're going to be focusing on as well 00:22:34.890 --> 00:22:37.630 a sign -on letter from organizations to budget 00:22:37.630 --> 00:22:39.630 writers as well as a dear colleague letter which 00:22:39.630 --> 00:22:42.450 means legislators writing a letter okay to their 00:22:42.450 --> 00:22:45.329 fellow colleagues and i will offer that if anybody 00:22:45.329 --> 00:22:47.109 who's listening wants to get involved in that 00:22:47.109 --> 00:22:48.849 and you need more details and more information 00:22:48.849 --> 00:22:50.730 feel free to reach out to me and i can put you 00:22:50.730 --> 00:22:52.769 in touch with skippy thank you paul all right 00:22:52.769 --> 00:22:54.309 we'll take care we'll see you next time all right 00:22:56.970 --> 00:22:59.509 Thanks for tuning in to County Connection. Stay 00:22:59.509 --> 00:23:01.349 in the loop by subscribing to us through your 00:23:01.349 --> 00:23:03.670 preferred podcasting app and following us on 00:23:03.670 --> 00:23:06.609 LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. And don't forget 00:23:06.609 --> 00:23:08.769 to join the hub, your go to source for the latest 00:23:08.769 --> 00:23:10.910 news and updates from the Washington State Association 00:23:10.910 --> 00:23:13.609 of Counties. Until next time, stay connected 00:23:13.609 --> 00:23:14.609 and stay informed.