WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.180 Not sure where this is going, so. I'm not sure 00:00:02.180 --> 00:00:06.400 either. So the rules of podcasting are don't 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:08.259 worry about what you say. No one's listening. 00:00:08.339 --> 00:00:10.199 Remember that. Nobody's listening. Before that, 00:00:10.300 --> 00:00:12.380 I like to ask some stupid questions. I'm good 00:00:12.380 --> 00:00:16.660 with that. Welcome to County Connection. the 00:00:16.660 --> 00:00:18.739 official podcast of the Washington State Association 00:00:18.739 --> 00:00:21.160 of Counties, where we dive into the legislative 00:00:21.160 --> 00:00:23.219 issues shaping the future of our communities. 00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:25.660 From budgets to public safety, infrastructure 00:00:25.660 --> 00:00:28.600 to elections, we'll break down what's happening 00:00:28.600 --> 00:00:31.379 in Olympia and how it impacts counties from across 00:00:31.379 --> 00:00:34.479 the Evergreen State. Stay informed, stay engaged, 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:37.460 and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 00:00:37.460 --> 00:00:41.700 39 counties. Welcome back, everybody, to the 00:00:41.700 --> 00:00:43.820 County Connection podcast. This is Paul Jewell, 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:45.659 the government relations director for the Washington 00:00:45.659 --> 00:00:48.299 State Association of Counties. And I am here 00:00:48.299 --> 00:00:50.460 today with a very special guest. We're actually 00:00:50.460 --> 00:00:53.359 not in our normal studio, which is kind of fun. 00:00:53.500 --> 00:00:55.600 But we did bring our really good recording equipment 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:57.799 because it's a very special guest. And we wanted 00:00:57.799 --> 00:01:00.159 to make sure that we captured everything perfectly. 00:01:01.469 --> 00:01:04.090 Skagit County Commissioner Lisa Janicki is here 00:01:04.090 --> 00:01:07.829 in this makeshift studio today. I think it's 00:01:07.829 --> 00:01:09.769 a Wednesday, if I'm not mistaken. Commissioner 00:01:09.769 --> 00:01:12.069 Janicki, so good to see you. Thank you. It's 00:01:12.069 --> 00:01:14.250 good to be here in Spokane. I have been trying 00:01:14.250 --> 00:01:16.390 to get you on this podcast for a while now, and 00:01:16.390 --> 00:01:18.890 you have been avoiding me a little bit. Absolutely. 00:01:19.790 --> 00:01:25.439 So you admit it freely. I... It's not my comfortable 00:01:25.439 --> 00:01:30.019 space. Nobody likes to be recorded, but I'm so 00:01:30.019 --> 00:01:32.560 grateful that I was able to capture you here 00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:34.379 at the conference. For those of you who are going 00:01:34.379 --> 00:01:37.680 to be listening later, we are on day two of the 00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:41.079 County Leaders Conference in Spokane for 2025. 00:01:41.379 --> 00:01:45.250 So that's where we're doing this recording. I've 00:01:45.250 --> 00:01:47.090 been trying to get you to come to Olympia to 00:01:47.090 --> 00:01:50.609 do a podcast, and you were so uncommittal that 00:01:50.609 --> 00:01:53.989 I made Mitch bring the equipment here. Because 00:01:53.989 --> 00:01:55.650 I knew you would be here. I was like, there's 00:01:55.650 --> 00:01:58.370 no way Commissioner Janicki is going to miss 00:01:58.370 --> 00:02:01.530 the conference. And I figured I could rope you 00:02:01.530 --> 00:02:03.420 in, and here we are. So I was successful. It 00:02:03.420 --> 00:02:05.200 was successful, and I'm glad. I'm glad we're 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:07.480 finally sitting down. Yeah. Well, thanks for 00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:12.080 joining us. It's great to talk to you. We just 00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:14.060 got out of kind of a nice little recognition 00:02:14.060 --> 00:02:17.520 ceremony. Spoiler alert, I'm not going to tell 00:02:17.520 --> 00:02:19.259 anybody what that was about. If they weren't 00:02:19.259 --> 00:02:20.680 at the conference, they'll have to find out for 00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:22.340 themselves, but maybe we'll get into that a little 00:02:22.340 --> 00:02:27.219 bit later. But you're an interesting story. You're 00:02:27.219 --> 00:02:29.039 an interesting individual, I think, to a lot 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:31.520 of our members, and frankly, one of the most 00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:33.569 respected county commissioners. I think I can 00:02:33.569 --> 00:02:35.389 fairly say that. You've served as president of 00:02:35.389 --> 00:02:37.610 the association. You've served on the Forest 00:02:37.610 --> 00:02:40.449 Practices Board for years, which is a thankless 00:02:40.449 --> 00:02:43.330 position and a very difficult one. You just got 00:02:43.330 --> 00:02:45.909 off of the Board of Natural Resources after a 00:02:45.909 --> 00:02:47.729 couple of years on that. And you have a lot of 00:02:47.729 --> 00:02:51.810 history with forestry and different things. But 00:02:51.810 --> 00:02:53.389 before you were county commissioner, you were 00:02:53.389 --> 00:02:56.129 also part of your family's business. In fact, 00:02:56.129 --> 00:02:57.569 a major part of it. I think you were the chief 00:02:57.569 --> 00:03:02.050 financial officer, if I'm not mistaken. Now, 00:03:02.050 --> 00:03:03.990 when were you elected first as a county commissioner? 00:03:04.330 --> 00:03:10.110 Election in 2014. So 2014. So it's a big decision 00:03:10.110 --> 00:03:13.610 for most people. Well, there's a few people that 00:03:13.610 --> 00:03:15.530 maybe it's not as big of a decision for, but 00:03:15.530 --> 00:03:18.229 I think for most people, it's a really big decision 00:03:18.229 --> 00:03:21.729 to go from kind of the private sector to putting 00:03:21.729 --> 00:03:24.050 your name on a sign and actually running for 00:03:24.050 --> 00:03:26.990 office and making that transition from, you know. 00:03:27.550 --> 00:03:29.490 probably a pretty comfortable place. I mean, 00:03:29.509 --> 00:03:31.050 I'm assuming it was a pretty comfortable place 00:03:31.050 --> 00:03:34.689 for you working in your family's company to becoming, 00:03:34.789 --> 00:03:37.370 you know, one of the three county commissioners 00:03:37.370 --> 00:03:39.750 for a pretty important and pretty good sized 00:03:39.750 --> 00:03:42.229 county in Washington state. Can you take us back 00:03:42.229 --> 00:03:46.370 to 2014 and how you came to that decision and 00:03:46.370 --> 00:03:49.229 what you were thinking and what it was like? 00:03:49.430 --> 00:03:53.490 Yeah, certainly. Working for family businesses, 00:03:53.550 --> 00:03:58.210 it's a very protected environment. You know, 00:03:58.289 --> 00:04:01.949 our Janaki family is a big family in a small 00:04:01.949 --> 00:04:06.810 fishbowl of Cedro, Woolley. But I would, you 00:04:06.810 --> 00:04:09.710 know, read the news, watch local government progress. 00:04:09.909 --> 00:04:16.250 And it always kind of made me crazy that planning 00:04:16.250 --> 00:04:21.220 and budgeting was always a one or two year. budget 00:04:21.220 --> 00:04:26.160 cycle. And there was never enough to do replacements 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:28.899 of core systems. So there was always this process 00:04:28.899 --> 00:04:31.040 of having to go to the legislature before anything 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:34.519 major could be done. And I remember sitting across 00:04:34.519 --> 00:04:38.699 the desk from my mother -in -law. I worked really 00:04:38.699 --> 00:04:41.100 closely with my mother -in -law. Congratulations. 00:04:41.180 --> 00:04:43.160 I don't think a lot of people would say that 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:45.259 they have worked really closely with their mother 00:04:45.259 --> 00:04:48.439 -in -law. Our desks were nose to nose. And so 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:54.879 as we were running the finances of, there are 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:57.639 multiple Janaki family businesses, but when I 00:04:57.639 --> 00:05:03.100 was 23, Janaki Logging was the big company. When 00:05:03.100 --> 00:05:05.459 I left, Janaki Industries was the big company. 00:05:05.459 --> 00:05:07.000 So there was a big transition over that period 00:05:07.000 --> 00:05:09.199 of time. There was a big transition, but Annie 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:14.120 passed away in 2013, and I remember thinking, 00:05:14.439 --> 00:05:16.819 I've always said I'm going to run for office, 00:05:16.860 --> 00:05:20.410 and if I don't do it now, you know. When will 00:05:20.410 --> 00:05:23.110 I do it? So Annie was your mother -in -law. Annie 00:05:23.110 --> 00:05:24.629 was my mother -in -law. So you guys were working 00:05:24.629 --> 00:05:27.029 really closely. She passed away in 2013, and 00:05:27.029 --> 00:05:29.310 that was kind of a trigger point for you. Absolutely. 00:05:29.310 --> 00:05:31.490 Or maybe a turning point. You know, I think it 00:05:31.490 --> 00:05:35.910 makes you realize that there's no certainty on 00:05:35.910 --> 00:05:39.230 how long you will have to do things. Right. And 00:05:39.230 --> 00:05:45.000 Skagit County was... poised to build their largest 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:48.480 capital construction project that they had done, 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:53.500 which is a jail. They needed to get sign off 00:05:53.500 --> 00:05:58.000 by all four cities to approve the funding structure 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:00.620 for the operations of that jail. Is that the 00:06:00.620 --> 00:06:03.000 one that we visited just like two years ago? 00:06:03.259 --> 00:06:06.920 Yes. Okay. So just for some people who are listening, 00:06:06.980 --> 00:06:10.420 if you were on that trip, it was one of our interim. 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:15.360 kind of membership trips. And we visited the 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:18.420 Skagit County Jail. And what was unique about 00:06:18.420 --> 00:06:20.339 it, I think, was kind of the control room, right, 00:06:20.399 --> 00:06:23.079 where they can see into the different pods or 00:06:23.079 --> 00:06:24.579 the different sectors of the jail. That was a 00:06:24.579 --> 00:06:26.519 really unique design. So that was the one that 00:06:26.519 --> 00:06:28.300 they were, that was the project they were embarking 00:06:28.300 --> 00:06:33.139 on at the time. Correct. Okay. And from just 00:06:33.139 --> 00:06:36.660 having the... family business experience of capital 00:06:36.660 --> 00:06:39.879 projects, you know, the biggest risk in a project 00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:42.759 is at that construction phase and what's being 00:06:42.759 --> 00:06:44.800 included and what's not being included. And, 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:47.040 you know, were they going to stay on budget in 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:50.699 the timeframe allocated? Do government projects 00:06:50.699 --> 00:06:56.500 sometimes run over budget? It's just really tradition. 00:06:56.500 --> 00:07:00.199 It seemed like a good time for, you know, with 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:04.019 a finance background to step into that. to step 00:07:04.019 --> 00:07:06.819 into that role. That's interesting. I was wondering, 00:07:07.019 --> 00:07:10.620 were there, so you weren't, so this became kind 00:07:10.620 --> 00:07:12.800 of a, something that you had been frustrated 00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:15.600 by. You saw this as an opportunity. There was 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:17.800 kind of a turning point in your life that maybe 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:20.720 said, Hey, it's time to think about what I'm 00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:22.879 doing and what I want to do, which I think, you 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:24.540 know, we all have those trigger points at different, 00:07:24.579 --> 00:07:26.680 different parts of our life. And sometimes we 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:28.980 pay attention to them. Sometimes we don't, I 00:07:28.980 --> 00:07:30.639 think we're always better off when we do, but 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:32.680 you know, we're humans, right? So we, Sometimes 00:07:32.680 --> 00:07:38.220 we don't. The Janneke industries is a big part 00:07:38.220 --> 00:07:40.459 of the economy up there. There wasn't any frustration 00:07:40.459 --> 00:07:43.699 with the government and your company that you 00:07:43.699 --> 00:07:46.759 were looking to maybe affect as well? It wasn't 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:48.079 a personal thing that was driving you? It was 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:52.420 more of a civic duty? It was. It was definitely, 00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:55.339 I just wanted to improve our community. Janaki 00:07:55.339 --> 00:07:58.939 Industries is located in two different municipalities. 00:07:58.939 --> 00:08:01.680 All their property ownership is within city limits. 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:05.860 In the city of Cedar Woolley? And the town of 00:08:05.860 --> 00:08:10.500 Hamilton, a town of only 340 people. And most 00:08:10.500 --> 00:08:14.259 of the infrastructure is up at the old Crown 00:08:14.259 --> 00:08:22.939 Pacific site. So when you joined, did you have 00:08:22.939 --> 00:08:26.920 ideas that you were going to run government like 00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:33.139 a business? And how did that work out? When I 00:08:33.139 --> 00:08:35.840 started as commissioner, one of the very first 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:39.419 questions that I asked, there were two questions. 00:08:39.620 --> 00:08:45.940 I asked, Skagit County has a fabulous GIS department 00:08:45.940 --> 00:08:50.200 and produces beautiful maps. Can I get a map 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:53.620 of our county that has all the parcels owned 00:08:53.620 --> 00:08:56.860 by Skagit County, color -coded? And I was particularly 00:08:56.860 --> 00:09:00.700 interested in the natural resource lands, the 00:09:00.700 --> 00:09:03.320 gravel pits, the timberlands, to know that we 00:09:03.320 --> 00:09:06.379 had plans, written plans for those properties. 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:10.240 And I wanted to see where there were outliers 00:09:10.240 --> 00:09:14.639 or properties where we should be acquiring to 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:21.350 block up for future expansion. I was amazed and 00:09:21.350 --> 00:09:24.210 disappointed to know there was no singular database 00:09:24.210 --> 00:09:26.870 for that. They said, yeah, we'd make the map, 00:09:27.009 --> 00:09:29.889 but we don't have a singular list because every 00:09:29.889 --> 00:09:34.710 department tracked their own land holdings, real 00:09:34.710 --> 00:09:36.429 estate holdings. Really? You couldn't even get 00:09:36.429 --> 00:09:38.409 it from the assessor's office or the treasurer's 00:09:38.409 --> 00:09:40.889 office? They had to accumulate it because even 00:09:40.889 --> 00:09:45.070 the way it was sorted, even like it was all titled, 00:09:45.129 --> 00:09:48.899 sometimes they abbreviated. you know, S -K -C 00:09:48.899 --> 00:09:52.840 -T -Y parks. Oh, sure. It wasn't really clear. 00:09:53.120 --> 00:09:57.559 It wasn't clear. So I asked that question, and 00:09:57.559 --> 00:10:01.639 the second question I asked was, you know, given 00:10:01.639 --> 00:10:04.000 that we are not that far out of a recession, 00:10:04.460 --> 00:10:07.200 where, you know, what is the actual age of all 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:09.320 the buildings the county owns, and what's the 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:12.379 effect? effective age, where's that deferred 00:10:12.379 --> 00:10:15.000 maintenance where we may be at the brink of losing 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:19.379 a particular building or mechanical units? So 00:10:19.379 --> 00:10:20.960 this is starting to sound to me like some of 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:22.879 your business experience kind of working its 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.740 way in. Well, I thought it was just large organization 00:10:26.740 --> 00:10:32.480 questions to ask. And that data also did not 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:34.700 exist at the time. There was kind of a gut level 00:10:34.700 --> 00:10:37.759 feeling of where things, which buildings needed 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:41.269 attention or... which buildings were going to 00:10:41.269 --> 00:10:44.710 be causing an issue. And we had this brand new 00:10:44.710 --> 00:10:47.049 construction, the new community justice center 00:10:47.049 --> 00:10:52.769 or the jail being built. And I am proud to say 00:10:52.769 --> 00:10:56.549 that we now have a fully populated asset management 00:10:56.549 --> 00:11:01.149 system with not only just the buildings, but 00:11:01.149 --> 00:11:05.250 the floorings, the mechanical units, they all 00:11:05.250 --> 00:11:08.250 are in the... data so that at any given time, 00:11:08.289 --> 00:11:11.309 my facilities manager can tell me where our deferred 00:11:11.309 --> 00:11:14.070 maintenance is and where we are at risk of losing 00:11:14.070 --> 00:11:18.590 properties. So may I say, without offending you 00:11:18.590 --> 00:11:23.730 in any way, spoken like a CFO. I think of myself 00:11:23.730 --> 00:11:27.090 not so much as a CFO, but as a systems person. 00:11:27.289 --> 00:11:31.210 What systems can we put in place? that makes 00:11:31.210 --> 00:11:35.049 our investments back into community the most 00:11:35.049 --> 00:11:39.990 effective and will save money in the long run. 00:11:40.669 --> 00:11:43.409 So I came out of the private sector, too. And 00:11:43.409 --> 00:11:45.570 when I went into public service, I had never 00:11:45.570 --> 00:11:49.049 worked in public service at all. And so I started 00:11:49.049 --> 00:11:51.389 I looked at things, I think, very much the way 00:11:51.389 --> 00:11:53.129 that you did. You know, how can we build systems? 00:11:53.190 --> 00:11:55.529 How can we make sure that we've got data? You 00:11:55.529 --> 00:11:58.549 know, how can we plan for the future? But I also 00:11:58.549 --> 00:12:01.039 realized and I'm sure you did as well. And so 00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:04.539 this will be a little esoteric maybe and maybe 00:12:04.539 --> 00:12:07.919 a little harder to talk about. But I also realize 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:11.779 that different parts of working through kind 00:12:11.779 --> 00:12:13.840 of the government system and being part of that 00:12:13.840 --> 00:12:16.059 governing body and the legislative body, et cetera, 00:12:16.100 --> 00:12:18.240 that there are things in the business world that 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.659 just don't translate very well to public service. 00:12:20.860 --> 00:12:23.940 You can't really run the county like a business 00:12:23.940 --> 00:12:26.220 because it doesn't have a profit motive. It's 00:12:26.220 --> 00:12:30.279 not as clean cut. It's really human. centered 00:12:30.279 --> 00:12:32.639 uh even though businesses oftentimes are as well 00:12:32.639 --> 00:12:34.320 but they're still there to make a product right 00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:38.500 um and and also the county has to do things right 00:12:38.500 --> 00:12:41.059 you know it doesn't choose what it can do and 00:12:41.059 --> 00:12:43.340 what it can't do it's told what it can and and 00:12:43.340 --> 00:12:47.139 cannot do um i'm curious you know what how did 00:12:47.139 --> 00:12:50.679 you did you see the same thing kind of when did 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:53.159 you see that and how did you kind of manage through 00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:56.610 those because there's a lot of things that admittedly 00:12:56.610 --> 00:12:58.490 government can and should do better that are 00:12:58.490 --> 00:13:00.470 more like a business. And I was really proud. 00:13:00.529 --> 00:13:02.250 It sounds like you were really proud, you know, 00:13:02.250 --> 00:13:04.409 to work on those things, but there are other 00:13:04.409 --> 00:13:06.289 things that just flat don't work that way. And 00:13:06.289 --> 00:13:09.149 I'm just, how did that, how did, how did you 00:13:09.149 --> 00:13:10.669 deal with that? And how did that change your 00:13:10.669 --> 00:13:13.590 mindset a little bit? You know, there's a, there's 00:13:13.590 --> 00:13:18.480 a. A few things that come to mind. I realized 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:23.059 that having an elected prosecutor, that role 00:13:23.059 --> 00:13:26.919 of legal advisor, counselor was very different 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:32.340 in government and much more of an authoritarian 00:13:32.340 --> 00:13:35.200 position than I was used to in the private sector 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:39.500 where legal is actually counsels and gives advice. 00:13:40.539 --> 00:13:42.740 And I want to appreciate that. It starts with 00:13:42.740 --> 00:13:46.539 how can I help you, Commissioner? Well, and then 00:13:46.539 --> 00:13:50.039 the whole procurement process. And sometimes 00:13:50.039 --> 00:13:57.720 I think that because of the reliance on the legal 00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:03.779 department, contracts don't always have protections 00:14:03.779 --> 00:14:06.519 in them that if you're writing it from a business 00:14:06.519 --> 00:14:09.049 perspective, you would have. you would have put 00:14:09.049 --> 00:14:11.529 in. Yeah. That accountability piece is really 00:14:11.529 --> 00:14:13.710 missing in a big way on the government side. 00:14:13.750 --> 00:14:15.830 Whereas if that were your private company, you'd 00:14:15.830 --> 00:14:17.909 be like, Hey buddy, get out of here and I'm not 00:14:17.909 --> 00:14:20.370 paying you. And you're beholden to low bed. Right. 00:14:20.509 --> 00:14:24.950 Um, so I, you know, I, I learned, you know, there's 00:14:24.950 --> 00:14:26.730 just a lot more of that upfront work that you 00:14:26.730 --> 00:14:35.059 have to do, um, around that. But, um, I grew 00:14:35.059 --> 00:14:38.120 to really have an appreciation, though, of when 00:14:38.120 --> 00:14:41.120 you have a healthy working relationship with 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:47.899 the prosecutor's office. It is different than 00:14:47.899 --> 00:14:50.820 in the private sector, but it's essential because 00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:57.240 the laws governing county are different than 00:14:57.240 --> 00:14:59.820 private. Like you said, you don't have a choice, 00:14:59.899 --> 00:15:01.419 right? So you've got to find a way to work together. 00:15:02.860 --> 00:15:05.220 That can be hard. It can be hard. That can be 00:15:05.220 --> 00:15:07.759 hard. It can be a real challenge, and it's not 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:09.679 as easy to solve on the public side as it is 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:14.100 on the private side. You know, as county commissioners 00:15:14.100 --> 00:15:17.259 serve, and it doesn't matter if they serve a 00:15:17.259 --> 00:15:20.759 short period or a long period, I think all county 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:23.440 commissioners become known for different things, 00:15:23.539 --> 00:15:26.100 right? And sometimes it's because they choose 00:15:26.100 --> 00:15:30.690 them, and sometimes it's because... the thing 00:15:30.690 --> 00:15:34.090 chooses them, right? Sometimes it's a, I don't 00:15:34.090 --> 00:15:36.049 want to say a victim of circumstances, but you 00:15:36.049 --> 00:15:37.809 know, maybe you got into office to do a certain 00:15:37.809 --> 00:15:40.909 thing and some major event happened and now you've 00:15:40.909 --> 00:15:42.389 got a whole other thing to deal with, right? 00:15:42.429 --> 00:15:44.950 It could be, you know, it could be, for instance, 00:15:45.169 --> 00:15:47.250 it could be something like an Oso landslide or 00:15:47.250 --> 00:15:49.990 something like that, which obviously a big tragedy 00:15:49.990 --> 00:15:51.610 and, you know, changed the course, I'm sure, 00:15:51.629 --> 00:15:54.909 of the work of the county for years because of 00:15:54.909 --> 00:15:57.870 that. But one of the things that you've been 00:15:57.870 --> 00:15:59.350 known for, there's a couple of things. you've 00:15:59.350 --> 00:16:02.169 been known for one of them is um forestry right 00:16:02.169 --> 00:16:04.549 and you mentioned that that was a really big 00:16:04.549 --> 00:16:07.269 part of your business before and then it's by 00:16:07.269 --> 00:16:09.570 the time you you talked about a transition by 00:16:09.570 --> 00:16:11.730 the time you left the business it was a minor 00:16:11.730 --> 00:16:15.029 part or at least not as big a part as um the 00:16:15.029 --> 00:16:19.029 manufacturing side correct uh i'm curious um 00:16:19.029 --> 00:16:25.190 did it choose you or did you choose it as part 00:16:25.190 --> 00:16:28.929 of your work as a county commissioner? Because, 00:16:28.970 --> 00:16:30.590 like I said at the beginning, you were on the 00:16:30.590 --> 00:16:32.129 Forest Practices Board, you were on the Board 00:16:32.129 --> 00:16:35.110 of Natural Resources. I mean, these are statewide 00:16:35.110 --> 00:16:37.950 boards that make really big, impactful decisions 00:16:37.950 --> 00:16:41.629 around state trust lands and also private timber 00:16:41.629 --> 00:16:44.629 land on how it's harvested, et cetera. Did you 00:16:44.629 --> 00:16:46.809 choose to jump into that fray, or do you think 00:16:46.809 --> 00:16:52.299 it chose you? I think there was an opportunity 00:16:52.299 --> 00:16:57.620 there where my skill set at the time fit a need 00:16:57.620 --> 00:17:03.940 that WASAC had at an organization. I mean, my 00:17:03.940 --> 00:17:07.480 general MO is not to insert myself into someplace 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.160 that I think is good, but more of a recognize 00:17:11.160 --> 00:17:14.880 when there's a calling for certain level of expertise. 00:17:17.480 --> 00:17:21.259 Been in a family business around timber harvest, 00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:25.299 having watched that change, evolve over the years. 00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:30.640 It gave me at least enough background knowledge 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:34.099 that I could credibly apply for and work through 00:17:34.099 --> 00:17:49.880 Forest Practice Board issues. board who would 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:52.980 join me, drive with me to Olympia before every 00:17:52.980 --> 00:17:56.559 meeting. So we had support. Well, we had the, 00:17:56.579 --> 00:17:59.119 as Skagit County commissioners, you know, that 00:17:59.119 --> 00:18:02.339 long history back to the Ted Anderson days of 00:18:02.339 --> 00:18:05.640 being supported on the, with the forestry expertise. 00:18:06.259 --> 00:18:09.400 And then the board of natural resources, I, you 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:12.289 know, that became kind of a natural. I think 00:18:12.289 --> 00:18:14.789 progression of putting my name in the hat and, 00:18:14.829 --> 00:18:18.230 um, I was, I was happy to be selected and then 00:18:18.230 --> 00:18:20.650 even, you know, further understand, you know, 00:18:20.690 --> 00:18:23.150 how divided our state is over the whole concept 00:18:23.150 --> 00:18:27.609 of harvesting and, um, responsibility to beneficiaries. 00:18:28.029 --> 00:18:30.309 Where do you think we're going? Um, you know, 00:18:30.309 --> 00:18:34.170 I, I'm sure you were, uh, I'm, I'm not talking, 00:18:34.210 --> 00:18:36.509 I'm not asking your age under any circumstances, 00:18:36.569 --> 00:18:39.490 but I'm sure, you know, with your progression 00:18:39.490 --> 00:18:43.150 of your company, you were, um, You had to have 00:18:43.150 --> 00:18:45.450 been in the forestry business during the 90s 00:18:45.450 --> 00:18:48.130 and the 80s during the forest wars period, right? 00:18:48.250 --> 00:18:51.329 And that whole thing, I was a very young man 00:18:51.329 --> 00:18:54.309 at the time and wasn't involved in it, but even 00:18:54.309 --> 00:18:56.950 I remember it and certainly have studied it. 00:18:57.289 --> 00:19:00.069 And we've gone through this progression, and 00:19:00.069 --> 00:19:02.910 now it feels like we're getting even more polarized 00:19:02.910 --> 00:19:05.950 again around forest management and forest resources 00:19:05.950 --> 00:19:08.789 issues. Do you think we're headed backwards, 00:19:08.910 --> 00:19:13.109 or do you think... Is this just a blip in the 00:19:13.109 --> 00:19:17.490 radar? If you had a crystal ball with your vast 00:19:17.490 --> 00:19:21.009 knowledge and experience, what do you think is 00:19:21.009 --> 00:19:28.329 the future for forestry in Washington? It looks 00:19:28.329 --> 00:19:34.250 pretty grim right now. The infrastructure that 00:19:34.250 --> 00:19:38.269 it takes just to produce... The lumber we need 00:19:38.269 --> 00:19:41.509 to build houses in Washington State. Which are 00:19:41.509 --> 00:19:44.230 important. Absolutely. That's a high priority 00:19:44.230 --> 00:19:46.509 on most people's list. Now, what did you tell 00:19:46.509 --> 00:19:49.849 me once it takes three full log trucks? Two log 00:19:49.849 --> 00:19:52.390 trucks. Two full log trucks to build one house. 00:19:52.569 --> 00:19:55.990 A 1 ,600 square foot. Single -family residence 00:19:55.990 --> 00:19:58.569 is approximately two trucks of wood. That's an 00:19:58.569 --> 00:20:00.789 interesting. That's an interesting visual And 00:20:00.789 --> 00:20:02.630 I don't think most people would realize that 00:20:02.630 --> 00:20:05.230 it's I mean it's and everything it takes to grow 00:20:05.230 --> 00:20:08.049 that And to harvest that and to mill that into 00:20:08.049 --> 00:20:09.910 product and then to actually sell it and then 00:20:09.910 --> 00:20:12.710 build a home two full trucks of wood one house 00:20:12.710 --> 00:20:18.210 That's correct. That's crazy The part that is 00:20:18.210 --> 00:20:22.369 But that is just frustrating though is to walk 00:20:22.369 --> 00:20:26.750 into a local building supply shop and finding 00:20:26.750 --> 00:20:32.970 stickers on OSB or other, um, would, you know, 00:20:32.970 --> 00:20:36.849 uh, lumber packages that are not just from outside 00:20:36.849 --> 00:20:39.650 Washington state, but are outside our country. 00:20:39.890 --> 00:20:44.230 So how is it that Washington state has, is importing, 00:20:44.529 --> 00:20:50.170 um, lumber for houses? So I worry about that. 00:20:50.230 --> 00:20:52.450 I worry about that. We are, we are part of the 00:20:52.450 --> 00:20:56.700 reason, um, housing prices are driven up. Let 00:20:56.700 --> 00:21:00.240 me touch on that last part, though, is a big 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:02.759 part of why we're importing lumber because we 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:07.140 also export a lot. A lot of, and my understanding 00:21:07.140 --> 00:21:10.180 is that a lot of the privately harvested timber 00:21:10.180 --> 00:21:11.799 on private land, not state and federal lands, 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:15.559 because they can't be, those logs, raw logs cannot 00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:17.480 be exported, right? It's illegal. They can be 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:19.160 manufactured into products and then exported. 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:22.460 But raw logs themselves that a large company 00:21:22.460 --> 00:21:25.029 like warehouser for instance or others might 00:21:25.029 --> 00:21:27.190 harvest on their lands those can go right on 00:21:27.190 --> 00:21:31.269 right on ships and and be exported to other countries 00:21:31.269 --> 00:21:34.150 are we are we importing a lot because we export 00:21:34.150 --> 00:21:36.450 so much or do you think that that's not really 00:21:36.450 --> 00:21:41.109 a factor we are importing because we're not producing 00:21:41.109 --> 00:21:44.589 enough in the state bottom line bottom line okay 00:21:44.589 --> 00:21:49.390 and um and so the you know the and then the secondary 00:21:49.390 --> 00:21:55.089 issue which may take decades to actually manifest 00:21:55.089 --> 00:21:59.369 is that overstocked forests are more likely to 00:21:59.369 --> 00:22:02.549 burn. And the west side of the state, they don't 00:22:02.549 --> 00:22:05.250 worry about it as much as on the east side. But 00:22:05.250 --> 00:22:07.170 that's changing a little bit, isn't it? Yeah. 00:22:07.509 --> 00:22:11.269 I mean, we've all driven through areas that have 00:22:11.269 --> 00:22:14.529 burned and sometimes burned twice or three times. 00:22:15.569 --> 00:22:19.910 You've got air quality issues. We all know what 00:22:19.910 --> 00:22:25.309 the outcome of that is, and the environmental 00:22:25.309 --> 00:22:31.890 impact of having an entire forest burn is avoidable. 00:22:32.349 --> 00:22:35.569 We've come so far, and we've made so many changes, 00:22:35.630 --> 00:22:39.029 and I think it's fair to say that Washington 00:22:39.029 --> 00:22:42.589 State's forest management policies or forest 00:22:42.589 --> 00:22:47.549 practices rules are world -class. head and shoulders 00:22:47.549 --> 00:22:49.730 above almost any place else, if not any place 00:22:49.730 --> 00:22:53.250 else, as far as protective of the environment. 00:22:53.369 --> 00:22:59.950 Why is it still so controversial here? I think 00:22:59.950 --> 00:23:03.349 there's a block of people who believe that even 00:23:03.349 --> 00:23:07.750 the good work that was done with forest and fish 00:23:07.750 --> 00:23:15.160 agreements wasn't enough. The buffering of non 00:23:15.160 --> 00:23:19.019 -perennial streams, that is the most recent restriction 00:23:19.019 --> 00:23:23.759 on growth, will just continue to take bites from 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:27.480 the apple until there's not enough apple left 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:30.619 to, there's not going to be enough of the forest 00:23:30.619 --> 00:23:36.839 left to harvest. You cannot keep cutting away 00:23:36.839 --> 00:23:41.119 chunks and expect... there to be an economic 00:23:41.119 --> 00:23:44.539 way to actually harvest the wood that we need. 00:23:44.660 --> 00:23:49.160 Yeah. Well, it's certainly going to be a topic 00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:52.119 of conversation, I think, for a long time. And 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:55.119 our members, as you know, are polarized over 00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:57.839 the issue, just like the rest of, it seems like, 00:23:57.900 --> 00:24:01.980 the community, if not the world. Let's change 00:24:01.980 --> 00:24:06.319 subjects, because I think there's no doubt that 00:24:06.319 --> 00:24:10.019 you have been seeing as a leader amongst your 00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:12.000 peers on forest management issues. And a lot 00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:16.240 of people, you know, have really leaned hard 00:24:16.240 --> 00:24:18.380 on your knowledge and experience there to represent 00:24:18.380 --> 00:24:21.220 us on a statewide level. And, you know, we all 00:24:21.220 --> 00:24:23.559 owe you a debt for that. So thank you. Thank 00:24:23.559 --> 00:24:25.259 you so much for your service there. You know, 00:24:25.279 --> 00:24:29.359 Paul, but I don't want to set that bar so high. 00:24:29.519 --> 00:24:33.619 I don't feel like an expert. I think it's incumbent 00:24:33.619 --> 00:24:37.740 on, you know, elected officials and... folks 00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:41.740 working in government to know enough to ask good 00:24:41.740 --> 00:24:45.019 questions. We have to bring intellectual curiosity 00:24:45.019 --> 00:24:48.740 to the table no matter what that topic is. So 00:24:48.740 --> 00:24:51.180 I don't have to be the expert. I need to know 00:24:51.180 --> 00:24:53.500 who to ask. I need enough of that vocabulary. 00:24:55.180 --> 00:24:58.940 And to be able to pose and get the right information 00:24:58.940 --> 00:25:01.579 in front of me to make good decisions. But I 00:25:01.579 --> 00:25:04.220 don't consider myself an expert. Well, that is 00:25:04.220 --> 00:25:09.460 a great message. And I think that anyone who 00:25:09.460 --> 00:25:11.599 spent any time in a leadership role in county 00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:14.069 government. can certainly relate to that because 00:25:14.069 --> 00:25:15.710 there's so many things that you deal with, right? 00:25:16.670 --> 00:25:20.069 Let's talk about IT. You think about that. What 00:25:20.069 --> 00:25:23.769 county commissioner is an expert in IT, yet we're 00:25:23.769 --> 00:25:28.490 dependent on making sure that our county isn't 00:25:28.490 --> 00:25:31.450 hit by ransomware or that we've got adequate 00:25:31.450 --> 00:25:35.029 protections in technology, that we've invested 00:25:35.029 --> 00:25:38.839 in the right places. You have to be able to ask 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:41.240 a lot of questions. And I'm sure you'd never 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:44.559 built a jail before, right? I mean, a construction 00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:46.380 is a construction is a construction project. 00:25:46.559 --> 00:25:49.140 That's not true. We know that's not true, right? 00:25:49.240 --> 00:25:51.700 But there are fundamentals and you know when 00:25:51.700 --> 00:25:53.400 to ask the right questions and who to rely on 00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:55.900 as experts. Well, and that, you know, I just 00:25:55.900 --> 00:25:57.519 have to tell you a funny story there because 00:25:57.519 --> 00:26:01.470 I was a brand new commissioner as... as the sheriff's 00:26:01.470 --> 00:26:04.170 office was coming forward presenting information 00:26:04.170 --> 00:26:09.970 on the new jail and they had they wanted to show 00:26:09.970 --> 00:26:12.670 the commissioners how they had balanced the budget 00:26:12.670 --> 00:26:16.869 that they were within the bid and and so they 00:26:16.869 --> 00:26:20.230 put up on the screen their their schedule of 00:26:20.230 --> 00:26:23.480 where the The condensed budget was, and this 00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:26.599 was all the hard costs. So the actual construction 00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:29.720 contract, here are all the soft costs, meaning 00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:32.279 the engineering and the contingency fund and 00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:35.400 the furniture and fixtures. And I remember asking 00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:39.279 the jail commander, I said, and where is your 00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:44.019 tab three? And he said. What is tab three? Hard 00:26:44.019 --> 00:26:47.000 costs, soft costs. And I'm like, I want to see 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:49.099 the things that you've cut out of that budget 00:26:49.099 --> 00:26:51.480 to present to me a balanced budget. But when 00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:54.460 construction's underway, we'll come back in as 00:26:54.460 --> 00:26:58.359 contract changes. He goes, oh, you mean the ad 00:26:58.359 --> 00:27:02.579 alternate schedule? I'm like, oh, the ad alternate 00:27:02.579 --> 00:27:05.099 schedule. Show me what got cut out of this budget 00:27:05.099 --> 00:27:07.829 to make it balanced. Yeah, no kidding. Because 00:27:07.829 --> 00:27:09.950 they've always got them. Oh, yeah. They've always 00:27:09.950 --> 00:27:18.329 got them. And there is a little gamesmanship 00:27:18.329 --> 00:27:21.609 on, you know, when do the commissioners make 00:27:21.609 --> 00:27:23.809 those decisions about what comes back into a 00:27:23.809 --> 00:27:27.509 project versus the team of interest, in this 00:27:27.509 --> 00:27:29.490 case, in the sheriff's office. I always found 00:27:29.490 --> 00:27:33.529 that having our... Because we built a jail, too, 00:27:33.710 --> 00:27:36.710 and we built a sheriff's office, did a remodel 00:27:36.710 --> 00:27:38.410 project, and we did some other projects. But 00:27:38.410 --> 00:27:40.789 I always felt, I always believed that having 00:27:40.789 --> 00:27:44.390 our own project manager that we hired, the board 00:27:44.390 --> 00:27:47.109 hired, to oversee the project was a big help. 00:27:47.579 --> 00:27:50.579 A big help because they got in early. They got 00:27:50.579 --> 00:27:52.599 to see some of that stuff. They told us what 00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:54.359 was coming, what wouldn't be coming, et cetera. 00:27:54.779 --> 00:27:59.000 And I never wanted the architect to be the project 00:27:59.000 --> 00:28:02.079 manager. And I certainly didn't want the other 00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:04.259 department to be the project manager because 00:28:04.259 --> 00:28:06.299 I felt like we never really knew what was going 00:28:06.299 --> 00:28:09.299 on. So a good lesson for those of you out there 00:28:09.299 --> 00:28:11.259 who might be building projects at some time in 00:28:11.259 --> 00:28:15.950 the future. That project did come in under budget 00:28:15.950 --> 00:28:20.069 and on schedule. Which is hard to say most of 00:28:20.069 --> 00:28:24.539 the time. So congratulations. The other thing 00:28:24.539 --> 00:28:27.599 that I think a lot of your peers have looked 00:28:27.599 --> 00:28:30.759 to you as, and maybe not just you, because I 00:28:30.759 --> 00:28:33.079 know this is a big issue and has been, and Skagit 00:28:33.079 --> 00:28:36.660 County has been a big leader in this issue with 00:28:36.660 --> 00:28:38.619 some of your colleagues, both present and in 00:28:38.619 --> 00:28:40.220 the past, and that's behavioral health issues. 00:28:40.460 --> 00:28:44.220 And so mental health, substance use disorder, 00:28:44.380 --> 00:28:48.059 things like that. You've been a big leader there. 00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:50.759 Skagit County has been an innovator. We had a 00:28:50.759 --> 00:28:54.180 chance to visit some of those facilities up there. 00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:56.240 And in fact, there was a really nice presentation 00:28:56.240 --> 00:28:59.720 yesterday where some of your folks got to shine 00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:01.680 a little bit. There was a video with you, and 00:29:01.680 --> 00:29:04.920 I know you have a personal story there. Is that 00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:13.880 your passion project as part of your... 10 -year 00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:16.900 career as a county commissioner, would that be 00:29:16.900 --> 00:29:19.319 the thing that you would point to as the thing 00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:22.200 that really drove you or what you really enjoyed 00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:25.039 working on or what you're most proud of? It certainly 00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:27.220 isn't. I mean, the jail was important, but no 00:29:27.220 --> 00:29:29.279 one wants to point to that and say that was my 00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:34.720 passion project. The North Star collaboration, 00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:39.539 more than the actual facility that was constructed, 00:29:42.040 --> 00:29:45.859 I think one of the accomplishments that I would 00:29:45.859 --> 00:29:49.980 point to in that when I came into county government, 00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:52.799 it was very much the county took care of this 00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.640 stuff, the cities took care of this stuff, and 00:29:55.640 --> 00:29:59.279 there was very little crossover and there was 00:29:59.279 --> 00:30:03.619 a lot of mistrust or distrust between cities 00:30:03.619 --> 00:30:10.579 and county. Being able to say that we have convened 00:30:10.579 --> 00:30:14.220 all four cities, their councils, their mayors, 00:30:14.220 --> 00:30:16.720 and the county commissioners multiple times in 00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:22.480 this past year to discuss not just the Star Centre 00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:27.220 that is opening, but how to coordinate our funds 00:30:27.220 --> 00:30:31.740 for 1406 and 1590 monies. How do we all have 00:30:31.740 --> 00:30:35.970 eyes on the 110th Behavioral Health? and allocate 00:30:35.970 --> 00:30:39.609 those monies to the projects that have already 00:30:39.609 --> 00:30:45.490 been prioritized. And then how can we... to coordinate 00:30:45.490 --> 00:30:48.369 our opioid settlement monies. You know, that 00:30:48.369 --> 00:30:50.710 is all part of this interlocal that is being 00:30:50.710 --> 00:30:53.890 signed now is this isn't just a one -time thing 00:30:53.890 --> 00:30:56.990 for a construction project, but this is hopefully 00:30:56.990 --> 00:31:00.230 a way of thinking that moves Skagit County with 00:31:00.230 --> 00:31:03.089 our limited resources for any one jurisdiction 00:31:03.089 --> 00:31:06.940 being able to look across. And it's literally 00:31:06.940 --> 00:31:09.880 right now a spreadsheet up on a wall that says 00:31:09.880 --> 00:31:12.240 Mount Vernon wants to fund this and Cedar Woolley 00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:15.920 will fund this and Anacortes and Burlington have 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:18.359 preferences here. And then the county will fill 00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:20.680 in some of the blanks. But we've already agreed 00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:24.400 on what are those priority projects. When you 00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:27.220 say the North Star Collaborative, what you're 00:31:27.220 --> 00:31:29.519 talking about, just for people who maybe haven't 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:31.140 heard of it and some of our listeners, I think 00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:32.400 you described it well, but just to be really 00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:35.710 clear. You worked really hard to get not just 00:31:35.710 --> 00:31:37.230 the county, but all the cities within the county 00:31:37.230 --> 00:31:40.759 to essentially. pull together and row in the 00:31:40.759 --> 00:31:43.519 same direction around mental health services, 00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:45.559 around behavioral health services in your community. 00:31:45.700 --> 00:31:49.299 And homelessness. And homelessness. And not only 00:31:49.299 --> 00:31:54.220 do they agree on the strategy and whatnot, but 00:31:54.220 --> 00:31:57.299 you're sharing resources and you're collaborating 00:31:57.299 --> 00:32:02.299 on and figuring out who can do what pieces. And 00:32:02.299 --> 00:32:04.880 I think you described it as... What was it that 00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:06.799 you said yesterday? And I can't remember if it 00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:08.759 was in the video or if you said this live, but 00:32:08.759 --> 00:32:12.160 you said, we all have a card. And individually, 00:32:12.400 --> 00:32:14.920 our cards aren't that impressive. But if you 00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:16.480 put them all in the middle of the table, they 00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:19.440 create a winning hand. And that's a great analogy. 00:32:19.660 --> 00:32:21.640 I thought it was a really great analogy. And 00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:24.339 I think that a lot of other communities can relate 00:32:24.339 --> 00:32:27.900 to that. You know, it's really a cultural norm, 00:32:28.099 --> 00:32:31.140 strangely enough and unfortunately enough. Local 00:32:31.140 --> 00:32:33.339 governments just don't get along with each other, 00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:35.519 whether it's a city in the county or whatever. 00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:41.279 And so to come around, to really coalesce around 00:32:41.279 --> 00:32:43.259 a subject like this, which is really, really 00:32:43.259 --> 00:32:46.029 hard. right behavioral health and homelessness 00:32:46.029 --> 00:32:48.769 these are hard issues nobody wants to pay for 00:32:48.769 --> 00:32:52.130 them but we all need them and they're a huge 00:32:52.130 --> 00:32:54.890 need in our community that's growing and we've 00:32:54.890 --> 00:32:57.529 seen you know what happens when there aren't 00:32:57.529 --> 00:33:00.869 supports in place in all walks of life right 00:33:00.869 --> 00:33:05.089 and so to be able to take a leadership role and 00:33:05.089 --> 00:33:08.710 change the cultural norm around you know the 00:33:08.710 --> 00:33:13.920 isolationism and the siloism and the pointing 00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:16.839 fingers and the laying blame and setting all 00:33:16.839 --> 00:33:19.240 that aside and working together is a remarkable 00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:21.380 achievement. One, one that I think, you know, 00:33:21.380 --> 00:33:24.920 Skagit County should be, you know, held up as 00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:26.920 a, as a really good example. And I think a lot 00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:30.240 of that is because of you. At least I hope it 00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:31.900 is. I mean, I'm going to give you credit right 00:33:31.900 --> 00:33:34.140 here on this podcast, so I hope you take it. 00:33:35.380 --> 00:33:40.160 You know, it, it, I'm. I love being a part of 00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:45.000 it, but it wouldn't happen without everyone else 00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:48.900 willing to have those tough conversations and 00:33:48.900 --> 00:33:51.980 staff being able to support consistently that 00:33:51.980 --> 00:33:56.660 group. North Star, the mayors, and I have been 00:33:56.660 --> 00:34:03.380 meeting monthly for over three years, and so 00:34:03.380 --> 00:34:10.849 the work that has been achieved, is very much 00:34:10.849 --> 00:34:15.710 a collaborative effort. I will miss being able 00:34:15.710 --> 00:34:18.230 to, you know, to have those sit -down conversations. 00:34:18.469 --> 00:34:22.650 We have some task force that were identified 00:34:22.650 --> 00:34:26.329 as priority areas, but, for example, co -response. 00:34:26.329 --> 00:34:32.989 So the municipal police departments, our county 00:34:32.989 --> 00:34:36.750 sheriffs. A small outreach team that is in the 00:34:36.750 --> 00:34:39.409 city of Mount Vernon that the county has helped 00:34:39.409 --> 00:34:43.829 fund for a number of years. That whole program 00:34:43.829 --> 00:34:48.150 is going to expand because the commissioners 00:34:48.150 --> 00:34:52.789 just adopted the 2015 one tenth money, not because 00:34:52.789 --> 00:34:57.380 we just want. you know, law enforcement to grow. 00:34:57.559 --> 00:35:00.820 But because there had been this much work, so 00:35:00.820 --> 00:35:03.320 much work done with that co -response team. So 00:35:03.320 --> 00:35:09.800 we are going to add two more co -response units 00:35:09.800 --> 00:35:14.239 that will be right along with our cities. We 00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:18.480 have four mental health professionals doing right 00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:25.480 alongs with deputies right now. It solves, doesn't 00:35:25.480 --> 00:35:27.500 solve, solve isn't the right word, but it addresses 00:35:27.500 --> 00:35:30.219 such a deep need in our community. And when we 00:35:30.219 --> 00:35:38.079 are ignoring where the county or city, you know, 00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:41.639 geographic line goes and recognize that people 00:35:41.639 --> 00:35:45.280 move across those lines, we better serve our 00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:47.119 community. It doesn't matter whose jurisdiction 00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:50.460 they're in. They need help. Yeah, and that's 00:35:50.460 --> 00:35:52.179 a really great way to look at it. A couple of 00:35:52.179 --> 00:35:53.519 things that I just want to follow up on. You 00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:56.179 mentioned the 2015 one -tenth money. So for people 00:35:56.179 --> 00:35:59.320 who are listening, 2015 was a house bill that 00:35:59.320 --> 00:36:02.400 was passed in 2025 that authorizes a new one 00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:04.539 -tenth of 1 % for law enforcement and other related 00:36:04.539 --> 00:36:06.679 services. And so Skagit County is taking advantage 00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:09.300 of that. I just wanted to make sure people understood. 00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:10.900 Thank you for the background. Yeah, what it was 00:36:10.900 --> 00:36:13.239 you were talking about. And then the North Star 00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:15.420 Project itself, if somebody wants more information, 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:18.750 is there a website? Is there information? somewhere 00:36:18.750 --> 00:36:21.150 that they could you know maybe do a little reading 00:36:21.150 --> 00:36:24.429 on or a little background information on um there 00:36:24.429 --> 00:36:27.250 is a there is a website for north star i don't 00:36:27.250 --> 00:36:29.809 know what that i i'll bet it has north star somewhere 00:36:29.809 --> 00:36:32.570 in the yeah you'd probably just google like north 00:36:32.570 --> 00:36:35.710 star skagit county you know it comes up it comes 00:36:35.710 --> 00:36:38.050 up and it has some of those um those stories 00:36:38.050 --> 00:36:40.989 and it has the priorities and then um if you 00:36:42.659 --> 00:36:44.199 Something else I want to follow up on that you 00:36:44.199 --> 00:36:45.880 just mentioned that we haven't even talked about 00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:48.800 yet. You gave it up. If you were Taylor Swift, 00:36:48.880 --> 00:36:51.539 they'd call it an Easter egg that your fans would 00:36:51.539 --> 00:36:55.420 have to pay attention to. But you said, I'm going 00:36:55.420 --> 00:36:58.800 to miss having these conversations. You're retiring. 00:36:59.280 --> 00:37:01.619 I am retiring. We haven't said that yet in this 00:37:01.619 --> 00:37:04.460 podcast. So you gave up. You gave up the ending. 00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:08.000 You're retiring. And so when you say you're going 00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:11.190 to miss it, it's because you're... You're crossing 00:37:11.190 --> 00:37:13.469 off the days. We're almost to Thanksgiving, and 00:37:13.469 --> 00:37:15.650 your term's going to end at the end of the year. 00:37:15.809 --> 00:37:18.789 That's correct. And you didn't run again. Well, 00:37:18.889 --> 00:37:23.469 and I'm actually retiring a year before my term 00:37:23.469 --> 00:37:26.170 is up. Oh, so you're retiring early. I am retiring 00:37:26.170 --> 00:37:29.190 early. So there'll be an appointment process. 00:37:29.570 --> 00:37:34.650 There will be. So speaking of that, I'm going 00:37:34.650 --> 00:37:37.769 out on a limb here, okay? So you're retiring. 00:37:38.619 --> 00:37:42.219 It's going to be an appointment process. I've 00:37:42.219 --> 00:37:45.380 seen your husband hanging around these county 00:37:45.380 --> 00:37:48.880 functions pretty recently over the last couple 00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:53.199 years. Mr. Janicki, he's here right now at the 00:37:53.199 --> 00:37:55.619 County Leaders Conference. One might speculate 00:37:55.619 --> 00:37:59.519 that there could be another Commissioner Janicki 00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:05.039 coming along. Is Mr. Janicki prepping to succeed 00:38:05.039 --> 00:38:09.159 you in the Commissioner's chair? Four years ago, 00:38:09.219 --> 00:38:11.719 I asked him that question if he wanted to run, 00:38:11.820 --> 00:38:15.360 and he's a civil engineer, and so some of his 00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:17.579 expertise, and he's the forestry guy for real. 00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:22.000 But no, I think there are things that we want 00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:25.900 to do together. Our 11th grandchild is on her 00:38:25.900 --> 00:38:29.880 way. 11th, wow. And all those grandkids live 00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:33.280 within 15 minutes of my house. Oh, that's so 00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:36.429 fortunate. And I just don't have the time. I 00:38:36.429 --> 00:38:39.989 don't have enough time as commissioner to really 00:38:39.989 --> 00:38:43.230 be there for their events, their middle -of -the 00:38:43.230 --> 00:38:47.179 -day school. So there'll be no dynasty in the 00:38:47.179 --> 00:38:48.900 county commissioner's chair in Skagit County 00:38:48.900 --> 00:38:50.460 related to the Janicki's? You know, it's a big 00:38:50.460 --> 00:38:52.900 family. I can't speak for all those nieces. Our 00:38:52.900 --> 00:38:55.920 Christmas party for the family Christmas party 00:38:55.920 --> 00:38:58.960 is 80 people. Oh, that's a big family. Yeah, 00:38:59.019 --> 00:39:03.300 so we had to move it into an off -site location 00:39:03.300 --> 00:39:06.159 because nobody's house can handle 80 people eating 00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:08.619 dinner. Nobody wants to prepare their house, 00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:11.780 much less clean up afterwards for 80 people. 00:39:12.719 --> 00:39:14.820 Well, Commissioner, it's been a real pleasure 00:39:14.820 --> 00:39:17.159 chatting with you. I think you've had a great 00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:19.639 career. I think that you're going to be missed. 00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:21.619 I think a lot of our members are going to miss 00:39:21.619 --> 00:39:24.980 your counsel, your mentorship, and your leadership. 00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:26.599 And I think your community is going to as well. 00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:30.599 I'm sorry that Mr. Janicki is I was really hoping 00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:32.300 that I was going to break. I was that was going 00:39:32.300 --> 00:39:34.300 to be a breaking news story. I was like, man, 00:39:34.460 --> 00:39:36.579 I wonder if this is happening. It was actually 00:39:36.579 --> 00:39:38.219 just a conspiracy theory that I was going to 00:39:38.219 --> 00:39:39.940 throw out there. And I was surprised that you'd 00:39:39.940 --> 00:39:42.340 actually talked about with them a little bit. 00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:47.199 I'd like to just add one more piece to this. 00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:52.639 If if there is something, some legacy that I 00:39:52.639 --> 00:39:56.619 have left. for that next generation of elected 00:39:56.619 --> 00:40:02.079 officials. I really hope that I have modeled 00:40:02.079 --> 00:40:06.860 for other women who are interested in serving 00:40:06.860 --> 00:40:10.679 their community through an elected office that 00:40:10.679 --> 00:40:14.400 they can see, you know, I consider myself an 00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:17.679 introvert. I don't like to be put in front of 00:40:17.679 --> 00:40:20.460 everyone, but there's so much good work that 00:40:20.460 --> 00:40:24.190 has to be done. You know, I saw that on the County 00:40:24.190 --> 00:40:26.610 Road Administration Board when I served there 00:40:26.610 --> 00:40:31.289 and watching, you know, women commissioners come 00:40:31.289 --> 00:40:34.869 on to that board is, I think, just a great opportunity 00:40:34.869 --> 00:40:43.639 for us to kind of exercise that. Our areas of 00:40:43.639 --> 00:40:46.860 expertise can translate to a lot of the needs 00:40:46.860 --> 00:40:51.840 of the county organization. And I think the challenge 00:40:51.840 --> 00:40:59.320 for women is always how to be credible, assert 00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:06.579 your intellectual curiosity again, how to be 00:41:06.579 --> 00:41:10.000 a strong female leader without being considered 00:41:12.230 --> 00:41:15.469 That B word that is often applied to women. Right. 00:41:15.510 --> 00:41:20.329 And so I'm just I'd love to see that next generation 00:41:20.329 --> 00:41:23.650 of women stepping into elected office. Right. 00:41:23.730 --> 00:41:26.230 Right. No, that's a that's a great message and 00:41:26.230 --> 00:41:29.809 a great legacy to leave behind. I hope that you 00:41:29.809 --> 00:41:32.590 look back on these years and value them highly. 00:41:32.710 --> 00:41:37.880 I think I think you should. I know that. I oftentimes 00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:41.260 get a chance to talk with elected officials who 00:41:41.260 --> 00:41:43.719 have retired, and some feel very differently 00:41:43.719 --> 00:41:48.039 about their service. But there's a few out there 00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:51.300 that really deserve to feel great about what 00:41:51.300 --> 00:41:53.599 they've done. And I think anybody who gives their 00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:55.440 heart into it and does it for the right reasons 00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:58.780 and has the opportunity to really affect change 00:41:58.780 --> 00:42:01.000 on a meaningful level in their communities really 00:42:01.000 --> 00:42:04.489 deserves the ability to feel. very good about 00:42:04.489 --> 00:42:06.469 what they've done. And I know you're one of those 00:42:06.469 --> 00:42:09.429 people. Thank you. And I hope you won't be a 00:42:09.429 --> 00:42:12.090 stranger. And I hope that, you know, we can call 00:42:12.090 --> 00:42:13.429 on you every now and again and say, hey, what 00:42:13.429 --> 00:42:15.730 about this timber issue? And what about that 00:42:15.730 --> 00:42:17.889 behavioral health issue? You'll be open to that 00:42:17.889 --> 00:42:19.269 a little bit, right? While you're fishing in 00:42:19.269 --> 00:42:23.590 Alaska, maybe? Well, yes, that too. There's that 00:42:23.590 --> 00:42:25.550 fishing. Keep the cell phone in your back pocket, 00:42:25.670 --> 00:42:29.929 Commissioner. I will. All right. Take care. Thank 00:42:29.929 --> 00:42:35.590 you, Paul. Thanks for tuning in to County Connection. 00:42:35.650 --> 00:42:37.809 Stay in the loop by subscribing to us through 00:42:37.809 --> 00:42:40.110 your preferred podcasting app and following us 00:42:40.110 --> 00:42:43.110 on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. And don't 00:42:43.110 --> 00:42:45.090 forget to join The Hub, your go -to source for 00:42:45.090 --> 00:42:46.829 the latest news and updates from the Washington 00:42:46.829 --> 00:42:49.489 State Association of Counties. Until next time, 00:42:49.530 --> 00:42:51.230 stay connected and stay informed.