WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.220 with the brick buildings and right by the water 00:00:02.220 --> 00:00:04.240 in a way, it kind of reminds me of like Port 00:00:04.240 --> 00:00:06.240 Townsend. It has that sort of feel that's right 00:00:06.240 --> 00:00:10.679 next to the water. Welcome to County Connection. 00:00:10.970 --> 00:00:12.830 the official podcast of the Washington State 00:00:12.830 --> 00:00:15.230 Association of Counties, where we dive into the 00:00:15.230 --> 00:00:17.210 legislative issues shaping the future of our 00:00:17.210 --> 00:00:20.089 communities. From budgets to public safety, infrastructure 00:00:20.089 --> 00:00:23.030 to elections, we'll break down what's happening 00:00:23.030 --> 00:00:25.809 in Olympia and how it impacts counties from across 00:00:25.809 --> 00:00:28.910 the Evergreen State. Stay informed, stay engaged, 00:00:29.030 --> 00:00:31.910 and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 00:00:31.910 --> 00:00:37.659 39 counties. Welcome back to County Connections, 00:00:37.700 --> 00:00:40.140 the podcast dedicated to navigating the ever 00:00:40.140 --> 00:00:42.140 -evolving world of county government in Washington. 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:45.640 I'm Derek Young, Executive Director of WASEC. 00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:48.619 Today, we're tackling a crucial yet often daunting 00:00:48.619 --> 00:00:52.000 topic, managing your cash flow. WASEC members 00:00:52.000 --> 00:00:54.359 across the state are deep in budget discussions, 00:00:54.479 --> 00:00:57.020 and a consistent theme has emerged. Decisions 00:00:57.020 --> 00:00:59.399 by the legislature and courts have had catastrophic 00:00:59.399 --> 00:01:02.259 consequences on county budgets. That's why we're 00:01:02.259 --> 00:01:04.739 laser -focused on finding solutions that reduce 00:01:04.739 --> 00:01:08.060 your costs, increase revenue, and improve efficiency. 00:01:08.379 --> 00:01:11.500 We're incredibly fortunate to have Michael Albowich, 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:14.299 Vice President of Client Servicing and Implementation 00:01:14.299 --> 00:01:17.260 at our partner 3 Plus 1 joining us. Mike brings 00:01:17.260 --> 00:01:19.900 a wealth of experience and expertise in public 00:01:19.900 --> 00:01:23.319 finance and cash management strategies. 3 Plus 00:01:23.319 --> 00:01:25.879 1 is renowned for its innovative approach to 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:28.640 optimizing cash and investment returns, and its 00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:31.599 product CashVest exemplifies its commitment to 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:34.349 providing tangible value to clients. CashVest 00:01:34.349 --> 00:01:36.609 is a revolutionary service designed to help public 00:01:36.609 --> 00:01:38.930 agencies maximize their liquidity and earnings 00:01:38.930 --> 00:01:41.810 potential. In this economic client, every dollar 00:01:41.810 --> 00:01:44.909 counts, and CashVest offers a comprehensive solution 00:01:44.909 --> 00:01:47.549 to ensure organizations are making the most of 00:01:47.549 --> 00:01:49.829 their available funds. I think you'll find Mike's 00:01:49.829 --> 00:01:52.370 background in our conversation interesting. So 00:01:52.370 --> 00:01:54.030 let's dive in. Thanks for having me. Appreciate 00:01:54.030 --> 00:01:56.689 it. Well, I appreciate you joining us. We've 00:01:56.689 --> 00:01:58.909 been wanting to do this for a little while now. 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:03.200 You know, 3 Plus 1 is one of our trusted partners, 00:02:03.340 --> 00:02:05.540 we call them. They're companies that we advocate 00:02:05.540 --> 00:02:07.879 for along with our partners at the National Association. 00:02:08.560 --> 00:02:13.250 And it's because of your cash fest. product that, 00:02:13.250 --> 00:02:16.229 you know, we want to talk about today, but I'm 00:02:16.229 --> 00:02:20.090 really interested about how you came to, to, 00:02:20.150 --> 00:02:22.789 to cash best, because I think that story tells 00:02:22.789 --> 00:02:25.669 a lot about, you know, why I think this is important 00:02:25.669 --> 00:02:29.069 for our members to know about and kind of where 00:02:29.069 --> 00:02:31.490 your career has led you, how your career led 00:02:31.490 --> 00:02:33.789 you here. So many years ago. So I've been at 00:02:33.789 --> 00:02:35.729 this working in public financial management for 00:02:35.729 --> 00:02:39.009 quite a while, um, going on, you know, 30, over 00:02:39.009 --> 00:02:44.430 30 years and about. In the early, I don't know, 00:02:44.550 --> 00:02:46.949 early 2000s, when I was serving as state treasurer, 00:02:47.069 --> 00:02:50.729 I met Joe Rulison. And at the time, he was working 00:02:50.729 --> 00:02:53.189 on a similar product at Bank of America, if I'm 00:02:53.189 --> 00:02:55.909 not mistaken, and had a chance to meet him. We 00:02:55.909 --> 00:03:00.789 actually worked with his team on a product that 00:03:00.789 --> 00:03:04.250 was similar to CashFest for a little while when 00:03:04.250 --> 00:03:07.000 I was treasurer. And I'd always kept up with 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.460 Joe over the years and sort of stayed connected 00:03:10.460 --> 00:03:13.240 and chatted from time to time. And then after 00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:14.919 a while, when I was thinking about leaving the 00:03:14.919 --> 00:03:16.740 Treasury and moving on to something else and 00:03:16.740 --> 00:03:19.319 actually moving back to New Hampshire, so at 00:03:19.319 --> 00:03:22.300 the time I was living in D .C., we sort of had 00:03:22.300 --> 00:03:24.199 a conversation about kind of what was going on 00:03:24.199 --> 00:03:28.259 at 3 Plus 1, how it was growing, and had a conversation 00:03:28.259 --> 00:03:31.460 about joining. And part of the reason why I'd 00:03:31.460 --> 00:03:34.289 always... I mean, I'd always thought about doing 00:03:34.289 --> 00:03:36.270 something similar. So it was a great opportunity 00:03:36.270 --> 00:03:38.990 for me. In public financial management for many 00:03:38.990 --> 00:03:41.789 years, you know, municipal advisors have helped 00:03:41.789 --> 00:03:45.090 state and local governments with their debt issuance, 00:03:45.110 --> 00:03:47.610 right? And trying to navigate the world of investment 00:03:47.610 --> 00:03:50.550 banking and bank kind of banking services on 00:03:50.550 --> 00:03:53.370 that side, on the debt management side. And I 00:03:53.370 --> 00:03:57.219 always thought that there was a role. for a trusted 00:03:57.219 --> 00:04:00.020 advisor, so to speak, on the cash and liquidity 00:04:00.020 --> 00:04:03.659 management side. And so the things that 3plus1 00:04:03.659 --> 00:04:06.300 were doing was really appealing to me for two 00:04:06.300 --> 00:04:08.599 reasons. One, I had been doing a lot of technical 00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:10.400 assistance prior when I worked at the federal 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:12.960 treasury, which is really about helping clients 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:15.599 and coaching clients on implementing change and 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:19.509 new ideas. But The idea of combining like the 00:04:19.509 --> 00:04:22.490 sort of the technical assistance and the sort 00:04:22.490 --> 00:04:24.509 of trusted advisor approach on the liquidity 00:04:24.509 --> 00:04:26.910 side sort of really appealed to me because there's 00:04:26.910 --> 00:04:30.610 a lot of things that as, you know, finance director 00:04:30.610 --> 00:04:33.629 or treasurer, you're not forced to deal with, 00:04:33.689 --> 00:04:36.550 but you're like are dumped into your lap. Some 00:04:36.550 --> 00:04:38.430 you know a lot about, some you don't know as 00:04:38.430 --> 00:04:40.449 much about. And so to be able to have a trusted 00:04:40.449 --> 00:04:42.529 advisor, particularly on the cash side, cash 00:04:42.529 --> 00:04:45.050 and banking side. Again, that really appealed 00:04:45.050 --> 00:04:47.689 to me. And so when I had a conversation with 00:04:47.689 --> 00:04:50.970 Joe, you know, became like, OK, let's, you know, 00:04:51.009 --> 00:04:53.649 let's give this a try. So I joined 3 Plus 1 about 00:04:53.649 --> 00:04:55.649 three and a half years ago. It's been great. 00:04:55.709 --> 00:04:57.970 Been a wonderful experience. Always fun to work 00:04:57.970 --> 00:05:00.290 with the clients. And, you know, that's exactly 00:05:00.290 --> 00:05:04.410 why I was particularly interested in what you 00:05:04.410 --> 00:05:07.129 all were doing when I first started this role. 00:05:07.470 --> 00:05:10.250 Prior to my time in county government, I had 00:05:10.250 --> 00:05:13.449 a finance background. And so that separating 00:05:13.449 --> 00:05:18.389 that inherent conflict that is created by the 00:05:18.389 --> 00:05:22.129 the bank that, you know, you're holding your 00:05:22.129 --> 00:05:26.709 deposits in also advising always struck me as 00:05:26.709 --> 00:05:28.990 a little difficult. And so the idea of having 00:05:28.990 --> 00:05:31.649 a fiduciary or I guess not a fiduciary advisor 00:05:31.649 --> 00:05:35.930 that is giving information to you that doesn't 00:05:35.930 --> 00:05:40.959 have a an investment in your decision. and only 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:43.540 advising you on the best course of action for 00:05:43.540 --> 00:05:47.639 the public. That was exciting for me. We were 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:51.860 at my state executive's conference, and my ears 00:05:51.860 --> 00:05:53.680 immediately perked up when I heard about what 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:56.259 you all were doing. It's a good point. It's really 00:05:56.259 --> 00:05:59.680 interesting. At 3 Plus 1, we're not a bank. We 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:02.720 don't sell investments. We're simply advisors. 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:04.819 We're trying to give people the best advice, 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:07.779 but also based on the data that comes from you 00:06:07.779 --> 00:06:11.360 as the client. You know, we analyze all of our 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:13.399 clients' data to make sure that we understand 00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:16.040 and can help them understand where is all my 00:06:16.040 --> 00:06:20.579 cash and sort of how is it doing? Is it my earning 00:06:20.579 --> 00:06:25.839 1%, 5%, 0 .1%, right? So the first thing is just 00:06:25.839 --> 00:06:27.699 taking a step back and making sure you understand 00:06:27.699 --> 00:06:29.860 all the big, the sort of the big picture. And 00:06:29.860 --> 00:06:32.319 then if you have multiple institutions that you're 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:34.819 working with, being able to help. Our clients 00:06:34.819 --> 00:06:37.939 like look critically at each one and critically, 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:40.800 not necessarily in a negative way, but gain insights, 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:43.819 right? So, okay, this bank's really good. They 00:06:43.819 --> 00:06:46.160 have great technology. They're doing a good job 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.459 for me. But this other over here, maybe I could 00:06:48.459 --> 00:06:50.480 be earning more interest. So how should I be, 00:06:50.500 --> 00:06:53.079 you know, optimizing my cash to make sure I'm 00:06:53.079 --> 00:06:57.120 getting the best return possible? But also when 00:06:57.120 --> 00:06:59.560 we say the best return possible, also mindful 00:06:59.560 --> 00:07:04.079 naturally of risk. You know, how long can I invest 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:07.379 for? How much can I invest for? So that's a big, 00:07:07.420 --> 00:07:09.279 that's a, you know, sort of the core of what 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:11.259 we do is helping people look at their liquidity 00:07:11.259 --> 00:07:13.720 and then figure out how to kind of optimize where 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:16.279 their balances are. That's really exciting to 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:19.579 me because, you know, I mentioned before that, 00:07:19.620 --> 00:07:23.920 you know, our members are facing. really extraordinary 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:26.319 budget times. I mean, this is true across the 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.420 country. As we enter this, you know, as I've 00:07:30.420 --> 00:07:32.939 heard Matt Chase, and I think you as well, talk 00:07:32.939 --> 00:07:35.319 about the big shift where we've got the federal 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:38.089 government is devolving responsibility to the 00:07:38.089 --> 00:07:40.709 states and the states to the local governments. 00:07:40.870 --> 00:07:43.569 In Washington, we have a particular crisis that's 00:07:43.569 --> 00:07:46.850 around our criminal justice system, which is 00:07:46.850 --> 00:07:49.910 always based, you know, chronic underfunding 00:07:49.910 --> 00:07:53.449 has now got a real crisis. So our members are 00:07:53.449 --> 00:07:56.610 desperate to find quarters under rocks, you know, 00:07:56.689 --> 00:08:01.990 that anything that's available. And this really 00:08:01.990 --> 00:08:04.250 seemed to me like an exciting opportunity where. 00:08:04.910 --> 00:08:09.129 Without changing any real policy decisions, they 00:08:09.129 --> 00:08:12.610 could potentially, you know, save taxpayers additional 00:08:12.610 --> 00:08:16.029 dollars and earn extra interest income. So, you 00:08:16.029 --> 00:08:18.970 know, I've described CashFest as a, you know, 00:08:18.990 --> 00:08:23.269 as a fintech application. But let's tell people 00:08:23.269 --> 00:08:26.389 what it's really doing so that they can get a 00:08:26.389 --> 00:08:29.009 sense of if they partner with CashFest, what 00:08:29.009 --> 00:08:32.340 they'd be buying. Here's the simplest way. So 00:08:32.340 --> 00:08:34.360 if let's just pretend that we're at a barbecue. 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:36.700 Right. So it's the end of summer. We're at a 00:08:36.700 --> 00:08:39.220 barbecue. We're chit chatting. We're having whatever 00:08:39.220 --> 00:08:41.840 our favorite our favorite beverage kind of happens 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:44.659 to be. And what I when someone says to me, oh, 00:08:44.700 --> 00:08:46.840 what do you what do you do at three plus one? 00:08:47.159 --> 00:08:50.299 Well, the example I would give is I ask you, 00:08:50.340 --> 00:08:52.419 OK, do you have a checking account? Most people 00:08:52.419 --> 00:08:54.220 have a checking account. I say, OK, does the 00:08:54.220 --> 00:08:57.899 bank ask you to pay fees or no fees? And. What 00:08:57.899 --> 00:09:00.480 I'm trying to get to is that the bank might say, 00:09:00.600 --> 00:09:03.600 all right, if you keep picking over $1 ,000 deposit, 00:09:04.019 --> 00:09:06.620 $1 ,000 minimum deposit, we will waive all the 00:09:06.620 --> 00:09:08.860 fees. And you might say to yourself, oh, that 00:09:08.860 --> 00:09:11.340 seems like a really good deal, right? $1 ,000, 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:14.120 I'll keep that minimum. That'll be great. But 00:09:14.120 --> 00:09:17.100 if you don't use any bank fees, that $1 ,000 00:09:17.100 --> 00:09:19.840 is worth zero, right? Now, if you use a lot of 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:22.340 bank fees, let's say you used, and my math is 00:09:22.340 --> 00:09:25.100 not going to be super quick, but if you use $50 00:09:25.100 --> 00:09:28.629 a year in bank fees. then that $1 ,000 is worth 00:09:28.629 --> 00:09:32.649 $50 divided by 1 ,000. So it's worth 5%. So that 00:09:32.649 --> 00:09:34.230 would be a really good deal, right? Because that 00:09:34.230 --> 00:09:36.909 means that 1 ,000 is worth 5%. Don't use any 00:09:36.909 --> 00:09:39.730 fees, it's worth zero. Now take those numbers 00:09:39.730 --> 00:09:42.929 and multiply times 10 or times 100. And that's 00:09:42.929 --> 00:09:46.350 akin to kind of what we do with CashFest. That's 00:09:46.350 --> 00:09:48.269 one of the things that we'll do is we'll sit 00:09:48.269 --> 00:09:50.690 down and we'll say, okay, the bank's telling 00:09:50.690 --> 00:09:53.169 you, you need to keep a million dollars on deposit 00:09:53.169 --> 00:09:57.700 or $10 million on deposit. For the benefit of 00:09:57.700 --> 00:09:59.480 keeping that million dollars on deposit, earning 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:02.460 zero, there's free checking. And a lot of times 00:10:02.460 --> 00:10:04.120 our clients will say, well, this is what the 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:05.980 bank has told me. And this is kind of what we've 00:10:05.980 --> 00:10:08.860 been doing. And we'll say, well, how much in 00:10:08.860 --> 00:10:10.960 fee? What are the fees that you're actually using? 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:13.279 Like, what is it that you're actually getting 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.100 value for here? And so that's a small example 00:10:16.100 --> 00:10:18.779 of where we'll kind of try to dig through and 00:10:18.779 --> 00:10:21.019 to figure out, well, is that really the best 00:10:21.019 --> 00:10:24.159 deal? Similarly, we have plenty of clients who 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:27.379 will say, well, the banks offer to pay me X on 00:10:27.379 --> 00:10:30.860 my deposits. We know that down the street or 00:10:30.860 --> 00:10:33.080 across the street, there's plenty of other institutions 00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:35.779 willing to pay, for example, Y on those, maybe 00:10:35.779 --> 00:10:39.039 those same deposits. Similarly, we... We work 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:41.019 with a lot of clients who keep, you know, a certain 00:10:41.019 --> 00:10:42.980 amount of cash on deposit because that makes 00:10:42.980 --> 00:10:44.919 them feel very comfortable that they won't bounce 00:10:44.919 --> 00:10:47.360 checks. But we'll also kind of work through with 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:49.000 them to figure out, you know, we could probably 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:51.480 keep a smaller balance on deposit, maybe put 00:10:51.480 --> 00:10:53.940 that extra cash someplace else and earn more. 00:10:54.019 --> 00:10:56.659 So those are just little examples of how we use 00:10:56.659 --> 00:11:00.019 their data to look in and to figure out, OK. 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:02.399 Here's how we can maybe make some changes in 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.039 business processes. Here's how we could negotiate 00:11:05.039 --> 00:11:06.940 something different with the bank to kind of 00:11:06.940 --> 00:11:09.039 get more out of that cash that you have on deposit. 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:12.620 So it's really just about making sure that your 00:11:12.620 --> 00:11:15.220 cash is working as hard as possible, but using 00:11:15.220 --> 00:11:17.519 data to kind of back up your decision making. 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:21.039 You know, and I, yeah, that data point is critical. 00:11:21.460 --> 00:11:24.240 Using it to help you decide what do you really 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:27.049 need in there? Because, you know, I think. Our 00:11:27.049 --> 00:11:29.269 members, you know, they know this because they 00:11:29.269 --> 00:11:31.169 understand that counties work, but they may not 00:11:31.169 --> 00:11:34.350 think about what it means that basically we get 00:11:34.350 --> 00:11:38.169 our largest tax receipts in two big lumps. Correct. 00:11:38.289 --> 00:11:40.289 And that's true of all the junior taxing districts 00:11:40.289 --> 00:11:44.210 that they manage their treasury. And so there's 00:11:44.210 --> 00:11:46.549 a lot of cash sitting there for a significant 00:11:46.549 --> 00:11:49.570 period of time that could be earning more. And, 00:11:49.570 --> 00:11:52.370 you know, are they maximizing their returns? 00:11:53.070 --> 00:11:55.470 You mentioned another interesting aspect to it 00:11:55.470 --> 00:11:57.970 that I didn't think about. It's more the fee 00:11:57.970 --> 00:12:02.009 side of things. I always tell people, because 00:12:02.009 --> 00:12:04.769 they get confused about how banks make their 00:12:04.769 --> 00:12:08.769 money. And I always tell them, flip what your 00:12:08.769 --> 00:12:11.110 normal experience with a business is. Because 00:12:11.110 --> 00:12:15.070 for them, deposits are a liability and loans 00:12:15.070 --> 00:12:19.549 are an asset. So they are trying to reduce the 00:12:19.549 --> 00:12:23.759 amount of costs that you're... checking and savings 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:27.860 have to them while also increasing their interest 00:12:27.860 --> 00:12:29.720 rates. So that part's a little easier to get. 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:33.360 But, you know, people, you know, maybe I'm aging 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:36.159 myself here, but free checking was an innovation 00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:39.139 not that long ago. Like before, the fees were 00:12:39.139 --> 00:12:42.519 really transparent. Now they've kind of hidden 00:12:42.519 --> 00:12:45.220 things a bit within, you know, various other 00:12:45.220 --> 00:12:48.379 mechanisms. So this kind of basically it helps 00:12:48.379 --> 00:12:51.610 tease all of that out. Well, it's funny you sort 00:12:51.610 --> 00:12:54.169 of mentioned that. I mean, we've had the experience 00:12:54.169 --> 00:12:58.269 recently where, you know, institution will say, 00:12:58.350 --> 00:13:00.090 well, there's no fees. So there's kind of like 00:13:00.090 --> 00:13:02.929 nothing to see here, move along, right? But we've 00:13:02.929 --> 00:13:06.169 actually found that by asking your bank, well, 00:13:06.309 --> 00:13:09.710 show me exactly what you think my fees would 00:13:09.710 --> 00:13:13.250 be, because I'd like to know. And maybe my taxpayers 00:13:13.250 --> 00:13:15.730 also want to know like what I'm paying for here. 00:13:16.779 --> 00:13:18.580 It's actually become like reverse psychology 00:13:18.580 --> 00:13:22.379 because once you ask some institutions, some 00:13:22.379 --> 00:13:24.820 are very, very, I'll say transparent and very 00:13:24.820 --> 00:13:27.320 forthright. Others are not, I'm not saying that 00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:29.559 they're not transparent, but their business model 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:31.600 has been, I'm going to give you free checking. 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:34.179 But then when you start to ask, well, okay, what 00:13:34.179 --> 00:13:36.639 if I just wrote you a check for those fees? What 00:13:36.639 --> 00:13:39.440 would it cost me? It adds a new layer to the 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:41.840 conversation and it allows you to look at different 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:43.600 options that you might not have looked at before 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:46.100 in terms of how you pay for those fees. So it 00:13:46.100 --> 00:13:48.399 just, It's sort of like I said, it's funny, reverse 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:50.860 psychology of, well, show me what the fees would 00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:53.519 be, and then I can decide how best to pay them. 00:13:53.620 --> 00:13:56.059 I think the other thing that's also super important 00:13:56.059 --> 00:13:59.139 is even though we're talking about, you know, 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:02.580 kind of maximizing or optimizing interest income, 00:14:02.779 --> 00:14:05.580 and we're also talking about, you know, challenges 00:14:05.580 --> 00:14:09.419 that counties face. both in Washington state, 00:14:09.460 --> 00:14:11.840 you know, uniquely, but then sort of across the 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:14.299 country with a changing sort of federal traditional, 00:14:14.580 --> 00:14:18.019 let's say federal state local partnership on 00:14:18.019 --> 00:14:19.740 different, you know, social service infrastructure. 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:24.460 It's also critically important that when we go 00:14:24.460 --> 00:14:27.019 to taxpayers and ask them, look, we want to raise 00:14:27.019 --> 00:14:30.100 taxes and no one wants, no one wants to do that. 00:14:30.179 --> 00:14:34.179 But when we go to them and we ask them to pay 00:14:34.179 --> 00:14:36.950 more, I think it's also nice to then. On the 00:14:36.950 --> 00:14:39.730 same side, be able to say, look, we respect that 00:14:39.730 --> 00:14:41.210 you're going to pay more, but let me show you 00:14:41.210 --> 00:14:42.789 the other things that we're doing over here, 00:14:42.870 --> 00:14:46.570 right? We're optimizing our balances. Maybe we 00:14:46.570 --> 00:14:48.970 did an RFP for bank services and we're doing 00:14:48.970 --> 00:14:51.809 something different. We're going to offer you 00:14:51.809 --> 00:14:54.669 more ways to pay online or we're going to start 00:14:54.669 --> 00:14:59.649 to offer accepting payments by Venmo or PayPal. 00:14:59.909 --> 00:15:01.990 We're going to try some new and innovative things. 00:15:02.070 --> 00:15:04.700 And I think that's a really important. piece 00:15:04.700 --> 00:15:08.299 of the story, right? It's not just about doing 00:15:08.299 --> 00:15:11.480 better, but then connecting that to, okay, we're 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:13.259 going to do better. Hopefully we're going to 00:15:13.259 --> 00:15:16.080 earn more income, but we also want to be able 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:19.000 to demonstrate to taxpayers that we are, you 00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:20.279 know, we're doing the right thing. And we're 00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:22.279 also benchmarking ourselves. That's another big 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:24.639 part of what we provide to clients is because 00:15:24.639 --> 00:15:26.580 we work with people all throughout the country. 00:15:26.659 --> 00:15:29.419 We can usually say, you know, this rate looks 00:15:29.419 --> 00:15:32.289 good. This cost. maybe doesn't look so good. 00:15:32.350 --> 00:15:34.730 This is how kind of you stack up against, you 00:15:34.730 --> 00:15:36.929 know, some of your peers, not just here in Washington 00:15:36.929 --> 00:15:39.169 state, but maybe, you know, another county, similar 00:15:39.169 --> 00:15:41.970 size in New York state. Here's the, here's some 00:15:41.970 --> 00:15:43.669 things that they're doing. So we're able to bring 00:15:43.669 --> 00:15:45.490 some of that to the table as well in terms of 00:15:45.490 --> 00:15:48.169 the ideas and, and help them kind of benchmark 00:15:48.169 --> 00:15:50.629 themselves both sort of formally and informally. 00:15:51.349 --> 00:15:53.389 against their peers across the country. That's 00:15:53.389 --> 00:15:55.690 terrific. I really like, you know, not only being 00:15:55.690 --> 00:15:58.950 able to take a look, you know, our members, you 00:15:58.950 --> 00:16:00.889 know, are always talking to each other. So there's 00:16:00.889 --> 00:16:02.830 a little bit of that going across board, including 00:16:02.830 --> 00:16:05.509 with the appointee level. But being able to look 00:16:05.509 --> 00:16:08.129 around the country, I think is critical because 00:16:08.129 --> 00:16:10.769 every once in a while, you know, I feel like 00:16:10.769 --> 00:16:15.169 we have pretty, you know, high standards in Washington 00:16:15.169 --> 00:16:19.799 for local and state government. But every once 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:21.620 in a while, I'll hear something from a colleague 00:16:21.620 --> 00:16:23.600 in another place and just think, wow, they've 00:16:23.600 --> 00:16:26.259 really got this figured out and we got to figure 00:16:26.259 --> 00:16:28.379 out how to bring this back to Washington. You 00:16:28.379 --> 00:16:32.200 know, we've spent a good amount of time kind 00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:35.340 of explaining the technical details of how this 00:16:35.340 --> 00:16:38.440 works. But I think a lot of our members will 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:41.419 want to know, you know, obviously. how it works, 00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:45.379 but also how other counties have done and maybe 00:16:45.379 --> 00:16:48.419 other jurisdictions around the country. Can you 00:16:48.419 --> 00:16:50.559 give us some examples of successes that they've 00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:53.419 had working with CAFNIST? If you go to our website, 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:57.179 we have different testimonials and different 00:16:57.179 --> 00:17:01.220 case studies from our clients about the success 00:17:01.220 --> 00:17:05.420 that they've had. One of the more recent case 00:17:05.420 --> 00:17:08.039 studies that we've done and videos that we've 00:17:08.039 --> 00:17:10.480 done that are on the website. is from Kauai County, 00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:15.119 Hawaii. And if you look, Kauai is a decent size, 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:17.200 when I say decent size, pretty big size county 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:19.980 in terms of population and sort of cash on hand. 00:17:20.099 --> 00:17:22.220 Since we started working with them about two 00:17:22.220 --> 00:17:26.380 years ago, they've earned, now just follow me 00:17:26.380 --> 00:17:29.119 here for a minute. They've earned about 14 million 00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:33.519 in earnings. Now that's not incremental. They've 00:17:33.519 --> 00:17:37.200 earned a cumulative 14 million. Of that 14 million, 00:17:37.279 --> 00:17:41.339 two. million were really from sort of focusing 00:17:41.339 --> 00:17:45.619 on the data, focusing on how some of their accounts 00:17:45.619 --> 00:17:48.500 were structured to be able to use some new banking 00:17:48.500 --> 00:17:51.759 products. And basically that two million comes 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.359 from kind of here's how we used to do business. 00:17:54.779 --> 00:17:58.359 Here's how we did business. And the difference 00:17:58.359 --> 00:18:00.519 between kind of what we were earning and what 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:04.819 we started earning because of those changes worth 00:18:04.819 --> 00:18:07.210 about in that particular case. has been worth 00:18:07.210 --> 00:18:10.190 about $2 million. So that's a case study that 00:18:10.190 --> 00:18:13.630 we have that's a pretty good one. And that's 00:18:13.630 --> 00:18:15.890 one of the clients that I work with in particular. 00:18:16.029 --> 00:18:18.589 So it's sort of like near and dear to my heart, 00:18:18.650 --> 00:18:21.049 I guess. I think it's an instructive example, 00:18:21.210 --> 00:18:23.789 too, because not that I am familiar with the 00:18:23.789 --> 00:18:26.769 size of Kauai County. Just to be clear, I quickly 00:18:26.769 --> 00:18:30.430 Googled it when you brought it up. But it has 00:18:30.430 --> 00:18:35.069 a population of 73 ,000 people. So a couple million 00:18:35.069 --> 00:18:38.250 dollars. And a county that size, you know, that's 00:18:38.250 --> 00:18:40.970 relatable to a lot of our members. Yeah. Because 00:18:40.970 --> 00:18:44.549 I think some of them have thought, well, I'm 00:18:44.549 --> 00:18:47.049 a small county. This won't make that big of a 00:18:47.049 --> 00:18:50.369 difference. But really, this solution scales 00:18:50.369 --> 00:18:53.509 pretty well. You know, again, one of the things 00:18:53.509 --> 00:18:55.690 that's also exciting for me, right, working with 00:18:55.690 --> 00:18:57.750 different clients in different jurisdictions 00:18:57.750 --> 00:19:02.369 is you do see things that are comparable and 00:19:02.369 --> 00:19:04.259 then things that are different. And so in their 00:19:04.259 --> 00:19:05.920 particular case, if you look at their population, 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:09.619 they do have probably more cash on hand than 00:19:09.619 --> 00:19:12.740 someone's similar population. Similarly, for 00:19:12.740 --> 00:19:15.099 example, we were talking about like me being 00:19:15.099 --> 00:19:17.460 from New Hampshire in New Hampshire counties. 00:19:19.059 --> 00:19:21.460 A lot of municipalities in New Hampshire don't 00:19:21.460 --> 00:19:24.000 carry very much cash at all on their balance 00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:27.039 sheets. In Washington, one of the things that's 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:28.819 quite unique about Washington is the relationship 00:19:28.819 --> 00:19:31.440 between counties and junior taxing districts. 00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:34.839 And so there are counties in Washington state 00:19:34.839 --> 00:19:38.140 that do have pretty significant balances, but 00:19:38.140 --> 00:19:40.119 it's not just, of course, it's just not county 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:42.200 money, but it's junior taxing district money 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:45.000 as well. And that are sort of like mixed in, 00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:47.119 use that term of quotations, right? And managed. 00:19:48.190 --> 00:19:51.009 As a group. With that said, too, I also wanted 00:19:51.009 --> 00:19:53.309 to mention, so I'm lucky enough to have worked 00:19:53.309 --> 00:19:55.190 with some of our clients in Washington State. 00:19:55.309 --> 00:19:58.890 And it is exciting because you mentioned how, 00:19:58.910 --> 00:20:02.089 you know, county officials and different municipal 00:20:02.089 --> 00:20:05.069 officials, they do talk to their peers. The thing 00:20:05.069 --> 00:20:07.509 that's fun about the county treasurers in Washington 00:20:07.509 --> 00:20:10.490 State is they're super professional and they 00:20:10.490 --> 00:20:13.130 do talk. They each of them knows kind of what 00:20:13.130 --> 00:20:15.859 the other is doing. I think that they have a 00:20:15.859 --> 00:20:18.680 good network of being able to share successes 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:21.920 and very, you know, a real like good group of 00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:25.019 professionals, but also quite inquisitive, too. 00:20:25.180 --> 00:20:27.160 And so like the things we're talking about, I 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:29.200 think, appeal to them because they're also wondering, 00:20:29.380 --> 00:20:32.880 OK, we've heard about this, but OK, what's what? 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:34.619 Like you said, like, what does this mean to me? 00:20:34.700 --> 00:20:37.559 Is this, you know, how would this make sense 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.309 for me? And that's why it's always interesting 00:20:40.309 --> 00:20:42.410 to go and talk to them at their conferences, 00:20:42.490 --> 00:20:44.890 have the opportunity to talk with them. And I 00:20:44.890 --> 00:20:46.430 think some of them are starting to come around 00:20:46.430 --> 00:20:48.210 to think, oh, maybe there's something here that 00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:49.910 you know about, Mike, that I could learn, you 00:20:49.910 --> 00:20:52.130 know, maybe I could learn from. So that's just 00:20:52.130 --> 00:20:54.769 also part of the fun part of sort of being in 00:20:54.769 --> 00:20:56.890 this business is, you know, having the chance 00:20:56.890 --> 00:20:58.829 to talk to folks and then sort of slowly kind 00:20:58.829 --> 00:21:00.809 of bring them along, so to speak, and make, you 00:21:00.809 --> 00:21:03.680 know. allow them the opportunity to say, yeah, 00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:05.740 I wonder if this could be applicable for me. 00:21:05.779 --> 00:21:07.259 I wonder if there's something we could partner 00:21:07.259 --> 00:21:10.079 together on. It's interesting because the type 00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:12.839 of person you want running for treasurer is also, 00:21:12.920 --> 00:21:15.960 you know, tends to be fairly conservative and, 00:21:15.980 --> 00:21:19.980 you know, isn't rushing to adopt the first, you 00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:22.799 know, high optimization, you know, kind of whiz 00:21:22.799 --> 00:21:26.380 bang thing because you want caution. You know, 00:21:26.420 --> 00:21:29.740 the type of person that runs for treasurer isn't 00:21:29.740 --> 00:21:32.960 seeking glory. because it's not a glorious job. 00:21:33.059 --> 00:21:36.359 It's an incredibly important, high fiduciary 00:21:36.359 --> 00:21:39.180 kind of job. So that tends to be the type of 00:21:39.180 --> 00:21:41.440 person that runs. But yeah, I can see that they 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:44.829 aren't. wants to rush to judgment on something 00:21:44.829 --> 00:21:47.730 either. And so it's, it's definitely something 00:21:47.730 --> 00:21:50.549 that I both appreciate. And I, uh, you know, 00:21:50.589 --> 00:21:53.369 want to work with our members and their members 00:21:53.369 --> 00:21:55.970 and kind of bring everybody along to see for 00:21:55.970 --> 00:21:58.690 sure. You know, I, I, I don't think this is a 00:21:58.690 --> 00:22:01.509 threat. This seems like an opportunity that we 00:22:01.509 --> 00:22:04.500 should be. taking a closer look at. Now, maybe 00:22:04.500 --> 00:22:06.880 you're doing something in your county that, you 00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:08.799 know, like you said, there's there were similar, 00:22:08.819 --> 00:22:12.019 you know, kind of products that, you know, maybe 00:22:12.019 --> 00:22:14.599 a bank was offering or something. But but I like 00:22:14.599 --> 00:22:18.059 the fact that in this case, you don't have that 00:22:18.059 --> 00:22:22.180 same conflict of interest between the advice 00:22:22.180 --> 00:22:25.579 that, you know, the cash best product is providing 00:22:25.579 --> 00:22:28.160 you with and the folks that are investing your 00:22:28.160 --> 00:22:30.500 money, because that does create some challenges 00:22:30.500 --> 00:22:34.980 that. I think are difficult. And often, you know, 00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:36.740 the person you're talking to at the local level, 00:22:36.779 --> 00:22:38.539 if you're invested, for example, if you have 00:22:38.539 --> 00:22:41.319 deposits with a very large bank, you know, my 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:45.359 little town had Bank of America. And at one point, 00:22:45.380 --> 00:22:47.759 I don't know if they still do, but the person 00:22:47.759 --> 00:22:51.130 that bid on that contract. to have those deposits 00:22:51.130 --> 00:22:53.910 is probably several layers of decision -making 00:22:53.910 --> 00:22:56.950 removed from where all of our debt decisions 00:22:56.950 --> 00:23:00.470 were being made, what the fees were. So they 00:23:00.470 --> 00:23:03.150 may not even have been aware of what the actual 00:23:03.150 --> 00:23:06.930 cost to us as a town were. So how do we get that 00:23:06.930 --> 00:23:10.250 information from them? So we're coming to an 00:23:10.250 --> 00:23:14.410 end here. Okay. I am curious, is there anything 00:23:14.410 --> 00:23:17.089 that you, there's something that you think our 00:23:17.089 --> 00:23:19.579 members should know? So when they go back to 00:23:19.579 --> 00:23:22.579 talk to their staff and their treasurers, that 00:23:22.579 --> 00:23:25.980 they should say, here's why I think we should 00:23:25.980 --> 00:23:28.339 take a look at this. I think the question is, 00:23:28.380 --> 00:23:31.720 do you know where all your cash is? And is your 00:23:31.720 --> 00:23:34.059 cash working as hard as possible for you and 00:23:34.059 --> 00:23:36.359 your taxpayers? That's a great response. I mean. 00:23:36.750 --> 00:23:38.630 Not only should the public servants be working 00:23:38.630 --> 00:23:40.250 as hard as they can for you, your cash should 00:23:40.250 --> 00:23:42.509 be working as hard as they can for the public. 00:23:42.650 --> 00:23:45.109 That's great. At our municipalities, right, in 00:23:45.109 --> 00:23:47.549 our counties, you know, our number one asset 00:23:47.549 --> 00:23:50.170 is our human resources. And we know that, you 00:23:50.170 --> 00:23:52.930 know, we always invest in our human resources 00:23:52.930 --> 00:23:55.230 and we're trying to get the best folks working. 00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:57.359 you know, taking care of taxpayers, delivering 00:23:57.359 --> 00:23:59.880 services. And maybe I would argue our second 00:23:59.880 --> 00:24:02.240 most valuable asset is our cash, right? Because 00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:04.200 that's my business. But our second most valuable 00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:06.640 asset is those financial assets like cash and 00:24:06.640 --> 00:24:08.839 investments. And again, are they working as hard 00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:10.460 as possible? And are we giving them the care 00:24:10.460 --> 00:24:12.640 and attention kind of that they need to yield, 00:24:12.700 --> 00:24:17.099 you know, yield benefits for taxpayers and stakeholders? 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:19.640 That's terrific. That's a great place to stop. 00:24:19.859 --> 00:24:23.500 Mike, thank you for joining us. This was a tremendous 00:24:23.500 --> 00:24:26.609 help. to help me understand what you're all doing. 00:24:26.670 --> 00:24:28.670 And I thank our members as well. So appreciate 00:24:28.670 --> 00:24:31.190 your time. And maybe I'll run into you here in 00:24:31.190 --> 00:24:33.009 New Hampshire soon. We'll be looking for you. 00:24:33.049 --> 00:24:34.670 Thanks for having me on. I appreciate it. Thanks. 00:24:37.369 --> 00:24:39.789 Thanks for tuning in to County Connection. Stay 00:24:39.789 --> 00:24:41.630 in the loop by subscribing to us through your 00:24:41.630 --> 00:24:43.950 preferred podcasting app and following us on 00:24:43.950 --> 00:24:46.769 LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. And don't 00:24:46.769 --> 00:24:48.750 forget to join The Hub, your go -to source for 00:24:48.750 --> 00:24:50.509 the latest news and updates from the Washington 00:24:50.509 --> 00:24:53.150 State Association of Counties. Until next time, 00:24:53.190 --> 00:24:54.890 stay connected and stay informed.