WEBVTT

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And I think that's county government, is you'll

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never have enough resources. And so you always

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have to be thinking creatively. You got to be

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thinking about partnerships. You got to be thinking

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about priorities. Welcome to County Connection.

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the official podcast of the Washington State

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Association of Counties, where we dive into the

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legislative issues shaping the future of our

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communities. From budgets to public safety, infrastructure

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to elections, we'll break down what's happening

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in Olympia and how it impacts counties from across

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the Evergreen State. Stay informed, stay engaged,

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and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's

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39 counties. Welcome to County Connections. I'm

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Derek Young, Executive Director of the Washington

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State Association of Counties. By now, listeners

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of this podcast are used to hearing from Paul

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Jewell. He'll continue to provide you with essential

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policy updates and in -depth analysis of the

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issues that matter most to counties. But we also

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wanted to expand on that a bit and talk to more

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of our partners. With things heating up at the

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federal level, I couldn't think of a better way

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to kick things off than invite our friend Matt

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Chase, Executive Director and CEO of the National

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Association of Counties. Derek, thanks for having

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me. Great to be on and congratulations on your

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full -time appointment. And just, we really look

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forward to partnering with you. Thanks. I appreciate

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it. Yeah, it's been a long journey too, because

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I enjoyed interacting with you and your team

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when I was a member a while back and got to participate

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in lots of NACO policy development and work on

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the committee. So thanks. Well, thank you. Well,

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you just weren't active. You were chair of our

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health committee, and that was really important.

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I think we'll dive into health at some point

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today, just broader what's happening with federal

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policy with health. But I think especially for

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Washington State's counties, what's going to

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happen with behavioral health is going to be

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front and center. Yeah, absolutely. We'll definitely

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dive into that. But first, let's chat a little

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bit more about you and your background. So I

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was interested to learn. I didn't know this until

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we started doing a little research. Our team

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of researchers, you know, started looking into

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you and we discovered that you actually kind

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of grew up around county government. Your stepfather,

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I believe, was a county district attorney and

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judge. Yes. And in fact, I'm. After annual conference,

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I'm taking a couple of days. I'm still working,

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but I'm up here in upstate New York, up in the

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Adirondack Park where I grew up. And I grew up

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in two different counties, neighboring counties.

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One of them, Washington County. Yeah, great name.

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It is more of a dairy farming type county, huge

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agriculture and a little bit different landscape

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than the bordering county, Warren County. is

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more mountains and lakes. It's the foothills

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of the Adirnick Park. It's the largest state

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park in the lower 48, about 6 million acres.

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So when we talk about public lands, I grew up

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living inside what's called the Blue Zone. It's

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a very unique state park. It's the oldest state

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park going back to Teddy Roosevelt era. And half

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the acreage is private, half is public, most

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of it wilderness forever. And so that's really

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where I get my understanding of federal public

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lands is growing up in a in a state system that

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actually kind of was a precursor to what became

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the federal public land system. Yeah. You know,

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coming from the Western perspective, we don't

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think of eastern states as having, you know,

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as many public lands. And that's really fascinating.

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I didn't know that background. Yeah, the lake

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I grew up on, I'm sitting here in Lake George,

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New York, and over 13 miles of lakefront on one

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side of the lake is actually wilderness forever,

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never to be developed. And so that really does

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impact taxation. It impacts land use. It's also

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great for tourism. But again, it's all balance.

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When you're talking land use and public lands,

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it's always tradeoffs. And it's great to have

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some concentrated development. on the lake, but

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then have this beautiful wilderness forever.

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Keeps the water pristine. We actually drink right

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out of the lake. Our house has a pipe right down

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to the water, and that's where we get our water

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from. Oh, no kidding. Well, so I'm curious. You

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went to, but that must be the connection to where

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you went to school, Hartwick College. I'd never

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heard of that before. Well, it's a small liberal

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arts school in upstate New York. In fact, I just

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joined the board of trustees and was on a A board

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orientation this morning talking about the survival

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of these small liberal arts schools across the

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country. And it's a great little school, only

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1 ,600 students. When I was there, it was a top

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20 Division I soccer school and had won the national

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championship, mostly Division III sports. And

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I was a scrub basketball player and really enjoyed

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it. But I think the beauty of liberal arts...

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is it teaches you multifaceted thinking. It teaches

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you critical thinking skills and to be creative.

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And I think that's county government is you'll

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never have enough resources. And so you always

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have to be thinking creatively. You got to be

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thinking about partnerships. You got to be thinking

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about priorities. And so I think it really was

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a great training ground for serving America's

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counties. Yeah, I was always a little jealous

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of talking to very similar colleges. You know,

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my area in Washington, small liberal arts colleges,

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and I went to large state school and kind of

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hearing that experience about how their education

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worked. I was I was a little jealous, I hope,

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to be honest, because we didn't have that same

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collaboration kind of work. It was very much

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on your own. Yeah, well, I think there's there's

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benefits to both. And, you know, going back to

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you asked me about my upbringing. I also used

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to work for the town highway department in the

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summers. and dealt with gravel roads and ditch

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digging and cleaning out culverts and flagging

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and doing paving. And I think all those life

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experiences really are playing out today with

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what we're going to talk about with federal policy.

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I think how we are brought up, particularly in

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rural communities, going to small schools, very

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community feel, really having to bootstrap everything.

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Again, has prepared me and I think my family

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for working in public service and working with

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counties. Yeah, I think the summer extra hire

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is like the classic entry into county government.

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You know, I've known so many people that that's

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how they first get into it. And that because

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they don't know much about counties. Right. I

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mean, I literally was working in the dump and

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it was called the dump back then. It wasn't a

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fancy like solid waste facility. And we were.

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moving gravel, getting stone, and really very,

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very early stages of recycling programs and help

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stood up recycling program. Even when the markets

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didn't exist to actually recycle the goods, we

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still were sorting and really dealing with dump

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closures at that point when EPA was really coming

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down on local governments for the quality of

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our facilities and making sure we were protecting

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land and water quality. And so just a lot of

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great life lessons. And also the politics of

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working on a local road crew and which roads

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get paved and which gravel roads get raked and

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how you deal with dust that gets into people's

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house. Like those are real world issues that

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our members are dealing with. Yeah, I've always

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said that the most controversial thing you can

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do is not work on someone's road or work on someone's

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road. It both seem to generate the most phone

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calls. Exactly. And where I grew up, we get a

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lot of snow. Snow plow removal is as political

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as it gets. Like who gets their road plowed first

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really matters. When I was on city council years

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ago, I used to tell the road crew, we didn't

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get as much snow, but when it happened, it's

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catastrophic because it's so hilly. And whatever

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you do, do not plow my street first. Just like

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make sure it's towards the back of the line.

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Oh, that's fun. I don't want to deal with it.

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So let's get into it. I want to talk a little

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bit about the association in general. So you

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represent over 3 ,000 counties. I can't even

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imagine how many employees. What is it, like,

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in a million? 3 .6. Wow. About 2 % of the American

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workforce. About one out of every 50 workers.

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in this country are employed by county governments.

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That's incredible. And yet the thing, and you

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talk about this a lot in terms of counties tell

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on their own story, is we're probably the least

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noticed level of government. Like most, I always

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say, most folks who know who their mayor is and

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like, you know, maybe their legislator. But if

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you want to run for county government, you know,

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you're not running to get your, you know, name

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in the paper. Yeah, we just celebrated our 90th

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anniversary of NACO and also kicking off America's

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250th celebration. And we had one of the county

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leaders from James City County in Virginia featured

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at our conference. And I joke with the chair

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of their board that the county branding problem

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started in 1634. When the first eight shires,

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which became counties, three of them are called

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city county, even though there's no city within

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the county. And I think our branding problem

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literally started on the shores of Williamsburg,

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Virginia. And also just the way counties were

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built to be checks and balances that, yes, you

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have a legislative body with the county council.

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And in most cases, it also has the executive

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branch, although. In your big urban counties

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with the elected county executive, there's a

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differentiation between the executive and legislative

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branches. But then you have all these independently

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elected district attorneys and clerks and treasurers,

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which is a strength of counties. It really creates

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a checks and balances, but it also creates a

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branding problem. Who's actually in charge of

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the county? And the answer is many. And so I

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think that was by design. And but it is a challenge

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from a branding perspective, but from an operations

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perspective, it's probably been beneficial over

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the years. Yeah, it's it's something that we

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frequently talk to legislators about because

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they'll get frustrated with something that a

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county is doing. And what you really find is

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like, well, that's a separately elected official

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that's doing that or it's a judge or it's a sheriff

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or whatever. And, you know. By design, you know,

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our membership, because we're a divided county

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organization, the rural offices, like assessor,

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treasurer, all those are in a different one.

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But, you know, they have their own, you know,

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political authority by right constitution and

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statute. And so we don't speak as one voice.

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And very often they're kind of different constituencies

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as well. Right. Yeah, and I think your audience

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with the county commissioners, county council

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members, and a couple of your elected executives

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are really going to have a tough go in the next

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couple of years. And they are really responsible

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for the county purse and really figuring out

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how to allocate the budget, how to navigate if

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you're going to take on debt financing, particularly

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for capital infrastructure. What we're going

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to be talking about is we're entering this era,

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and we anticipated it. When we were in the COVID

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era, obviously a lot of federal money was flowing.

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There was a lot of uncertainty about the economy.

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There was certainly the public health crisis.

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And what Congress did, some people like it, some

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people don't. But it was based on the lessons

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learned from 2008 with the housing crisis, where

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when the economy really suffered in 2008. Private

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sector came out of the recession faster than

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the public sector. And the public sector, mostly

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state and local government, was a real drag on

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our overall national recovery. And so when we

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got into the COVID era, Congress, and it was

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bipartisan at some point in the process. It wasn't

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always bipartisan, but President Trump supported

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these big bills the first go around. And working

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with the Democratic Congress, they said, we really

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need to invest in state and local governments.

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So when we come out of the pandemic, state and

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local is out of drag on the economic recovery.

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But we knew on the back end, the pendulum would

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swing back and we would have some years of austerity

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and federal cuts. And we certainly are starting

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to see that. We're going to talk through today,

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I think, the big, beautiful bill, which is a

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big reconciliation bill. It's the largest fiscal

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bill in our country's history. I think it's really

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hard for folks to grasp just how big this bill

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is, along with the annual appropriations process.

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And we're seeing a lot of issues with executive

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orders, agency decisions, that NACO's role, just

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like WASAC with the Washington... State Association

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of Counties, is we're an intergovernmental player.

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We're not a partisan player. We're an intergovernmental

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player trying to represent the county voice with

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federal, state, local, tribal officials. And

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so our job, just like your job, is to be an advocate

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for county governments and to make sure county

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officials are aware of these federal decisions,

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try and influence them where appropriate, and

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then really figure out how do we navigate them.

00:14:15.230 --> 00:14:18.649
Because one thing we've learned over decades

00:14:18.649 --> 00:14:22.710
is status quo is not an option. The mix of players,

00:14:22.950 --> 00:14:24.809
the mix of the majority at the federal level

00:14:24.809 --> 00:14:27.870
changes every two years. And if you're hoping

00:14:27.870 --> 00:14:29.889
for status quo, you're like in the wrong business

00:14:29.889 --> 00:14:33.190
right now. It's going to change. And I think

00:14:33.190 --> 00:14:36.710
the role of NACO as well as Washington County's

00:14:36.710 --> 00:14:39.350
is how do we help county officials adapt and

00:14:39.350 --> 00:14:42.850
how do we learn? and really with an eye towards

00:14:42.850 --> 00:14:45.409
serving our local communities the best we can.

00:14:46.710 --> 00:14:49.750
One thing I've always appreciated when I've heard

00:14:49.750 --> 00:14:53.629
you talk to our group or to members is emphasizing,

00:14:54.070 --> 00:14:57.909
because we can wade into some waters that are

00:14:57.909 --> 00:15:00.330
tricky. Some of our members may be in favor of

00:15:00.330 --> 00:15:03.289
decisions that are being made that organizationally

00:15:03.289 --> 00:15:09.019
we have to work on. You know, talking about NACO,

00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:11.580
and this is true of WASAC and our counterparts

00:15:11.580 --> 00:15:15.559
as well, that we're nonpartisan, but we are political.

00:15:15.779 --> 00:15:19.860
And I like how, you know, it emphasizes that,

00:15:19.860 --> 00:15:22.379
you know, being nonpartisan doesn't mean we don't

00:15:22.379 --> 00:15:24.480
have a viewpoint and that we have to advocate,

00:15:24.620 --> 00:15:28.159
you know, aggressively for it at times. Yeah,

00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.779
and I think when you start to think about public

00:15:31.779 --> 00:15:35.470
policy. What is public policy? It's really about

00:15:35.470 --> 00:15:39.289
setting priorities. And for county governments,

00:15:39.730 --> 00:15:43.830
we tend to get assigned what the federal and

00:15:43.830 --> 00:15:45.330
state governments don't want to do themselves.

00:15:45.830 --> 00:15:50.049
We tend to get assigned really expensive, complex

00:15:50.049 --> 00:15:54.710
societal issues. When Washington state counties

00:15:54.710 --> 00:15:58.710
are dealing with behavioral health, they're not

00:15:58.710 --> 00:16:01.700
just dealing with just. a mental health issue.

00:16:01.799 --> 00:16:04.519
It's often co -occurring substance abuse. And

00:16:04.519 --> 00:16:06.340
oh, by the way, there's probably chronic health.

00:16:06.500 --> 00:16:08.960
There's probably housing issues. There's probably

00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:13.539
multi -generational issues. And so I think our

00:16:13.539 --> 00:16:17.259
task is to really make sure federal officials

00:16:17.259 --> 00:16:23.019
understand the multi -dimension nature of local

00:16:23.019 --> 00:16:26.919
issues that when we're dealing with a disaster

00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:31.570
recovery. Yes, housing is front and center, but

00:16:31.570 --> 00:16:36.009
also the economy, people's jobs, people, family,

00:16:36.190 --> 00:16:39.490
behavioral health issues. You know, there's so

00:16:39.490 --> 00:16:42.870
much that goes into this. Most of our funding

00:16:42.870 --> 00:16:46.570
comes in silos, but the practice on the ground

00:16:46.570 --> 00:16:51.250
is intertwined. And that's what we're trying

00:16:51.250 --> 00:16:53.309
to make sure our federal officials understand

00:16:53.309 --> 00:16:56.730
is when we're dealing with things like SNAP,

00:16:56.809 --> 00:16:59.740
the nutrition program, There's a lot of debate

00:16:59.740 --> 00:17:03.419
about this. And all we're trying to do is say,

00:17:03.539 --> 00:17:07.619
really, who are SNAP recipients? And you get

00:17:07.619 --> 00:17:10.359
into things like work requirements. Okay, we

00:17:10.359 --> 00:17:13.539
have been supportive of reasonable work requirements.

00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.200
We want to streamline the administration of those

00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:19.880
work requirements because there's some real cost

00:17:19.880 --> 00:17:22.960
to counties that administer that. But when you

00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:24.519
look at it, mostly we're talking about children.

00:17:24.980 --> 00:17:28.859
And so when you're... Political rhetoric is around

00:17:28.859 --> 00:17:30.980
work requirements, but yet most of the recipients

00:17:30.980 --> 00:17:34.019
are single moms with children and very young

00:17:34.019 --> 00:17:36.559
children. We just want to deal with the facts,

00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:40.319
and we want to really make sure our members have

00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:44.119
the flexibility to serve their communities. And

00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:47.000
one takeaway, I think, for your listeners is

00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:50.359
NACO doesn't believe, like our board of directors

00:17:50.359 --> 00:17:53.140
has had a lot of discussion, we don't believe

00:17:53.140 --> 00:17:55.180
the federal government has an unlimited checkbook.

00:17:55.640 --> 00:17:59.740
just like state and counties don't. And we understand

00:17:59.740 --> 00:18:02.420
the need to get a control on our debt and our

00:18:02.420 --> 00:18:05.039
deficits. What we don't like that's happening

00:18:05.039 --> 00:18:08.539
is we're actually not tackling debt and deficits.

00:18:08.660 --> 00:18:11.700
They're actually growing. And yet the cuts they

00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:14.460
are making are mostly to state and local programs,

00:18:14.700 --> 00:18:18.319
things like Medicaid and SNAP and potentially

00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:22.640
in the disaster world. And so we just want to

00:18:22.640 --> 00:18:25.109
continue to have a seat at the table. have really

00:18:25.109 --> 00:18:28.309
mature conversations about what's the appropriate

00:18:28.309 --> 00:18:30.990
balance between federal, state, and local responsibilities

00:18:30.990 --> 00:18:36.210
and tribal as well. And we have real issues that

00:18:36.210 --> 00:18:38.670
you're dealing with at the state level, as well

00:18:38.670 --> 00:18:42.029
as the county level, from public lands to behavioral

00:18:42.029 --> 00:18:44.769
health to disaster mitigation to transportation.

00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:48.910
Like these are expensive issues that we're talking

00:18:48.910 --> 00:18:52.690
about. Yeah, and it's hard for our members to

00:18:52.690 --> 00:18:56.309
try to find resources for that locally. You know,

00:18:56.329 --> 00:18:58.789
there's been this devolution of responsibility

00:18:58.789 --> 00:19:02.009
really over decades, but it's really accelerating

00:19:02.009 --> 00:19:06.230
now. And there's this, I guess, a belief, and

00:19:06.230 --> 00:19:09.329
this is true, like in our state, one of the most

00:19:09.329 --> 00:19:13.269
devolved, you know, systems of government you'll

00:19:13.269 --> 00:19:15.930
find where the bulk of our budgets at the county

00:19:15.930 --> 00:19:18.569
level are revenues that can be raised locally,

00:19:18.769 --> 00:19:23.180
which obviously is wildly disparate and creates

00:19:23.180 --> 00:19:25.700
lots of inequities across the system, especially

00:19:25.700 --> 00:19:27.559
since almost all the criminal justice system,

00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:30.400
for example, from the courts, the prosecutors

00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:32.380
and public defenders, it's all paid for with

00:19:32.380 --> 00:19:36.759
those local funds. So that's kind of happening

00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:39.920
as well at the federal level. So let's, you know,

00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:41.980
since you've touched on it quite a bit, why don't

00:19:41.980 --> 00:19:45.220
we just go to what I wanted to talk to you about?

00:19:45.339 --> 00:19:48.680
And it's, you know, NACO is known for its research

00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:53.720
and Really does a tremendous job. But your team

00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:55.720
really outdid themselves this time with the big

00:19:55.720 --> 00:19:59.720
shift report. It's really an exceptional piece

00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:02.500
of work because there's so many things going

00:20:02.500 --> 00:20:06.819
into these big bills that, you know, I think

00:20:06.819 --> 00:20:09.339
it can get kind of lost. And it's our members

00:20:09.339 --> 00:20:11.039
are trying to wrap their brains around it. So

00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:13.119
why don't you talk about that report and some

00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:15.809
of its findings? Yeah. And before I do that,

00:20:15.809 --> 00:20:17.529
you know, just thank you on the comment on research.

00:20:17.750 --> 00:20:20.470
And yes, we're doing a lot of policy research.

00:20:20.549 --> 00:20:24.450
But one of the things that we're also doing that

00:20:24.450 --> 00:20:27.670
helps us understand the impact of federal policy

00:20:27.670 --> 00:20:30.470
decisions at the local level is the research

00:20:30.470 --> 00:20:32.589
that we're doing on every county in the country.

00:20:32.670 --> 00:20:36.230
We have developed these economic profiles that

00:20:36.230 --> 00:20:40.990
look at population changes, GDP changes, demographic

00:20:40.990 --> 00:20:44.190
shifts. So that we understand about a third of

00:20:44.190 --> 00:20:46.029
the counties in the U .S. are growing, about

00:20:46.029 --> 00:20:48.069
a third are stagnant, and about a third are in

00:20:48.069 --> 00:20:52.089
decline. And so when we talk about the big, beautiful

00:20:52.089 --> 00:20:56.029
bill, we're not thinking about counties as monolithic,

00:20:56.150 --> 00:20:59.930
that all counties are the same. And not just

00:20:59.930 --> 00:21:03.750
urban, midsize, and rural counties. Even within

00:21:03.750 --> 00:21:06.210
those, you've got some that are exploding with

00:21:06.210 --> 00:21:09.549
growth, some that are severe decline. And what

00:21:09.549 --> 00:21:12.339
we're really trying to do is understand. the

00:21:12.339 --> 00:21:15.440
ability of each unique county to respond to all

00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:20.140
this change. And we're really trying to build

00:21:20.140 --> 00:21:24.480
networks of counties to think through their future.

00:21:24.579 --> 00:21:27.420
And it's not NACO's job to tell a county what

00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:30.640
they should do. It's our job to help them with

00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:33.880
whatever their local vision is. So when you get

00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.920
into the big, beautiful bill, which, again, is

00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:40.339
the largest budget bill in our nation's history.

00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:43.259
It's three times the size of the American Rescue

00:21:43.259 --> 00:21:47.700
Plan, and it's actually larger than the American

00:21:47.700 --> 00:21:50.960
Rescue Plan, the CARES Act, the CHIPS Act, which

00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:53.839
was about semiconductors, the Inflation Reduction

00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:57.160
Act and Infrastructure Act combined. That's incredible.

00:21:57.339 --> 00:22:01.740
I don't think most people could even fathom that.

00:22:02.259 --> 00:22:06.140
Right. So we're talking easily over $5 trillion

00:22:06.140 --> 00:22:12.359
in fiscal impact. The basis of reconciliation

00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:15.319
and why do they do reconciliation? All reconciliation

00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:20.420
is it's a fancy term to say in the Senate in

00:22:20.420 --> 00:22:23.079
particular, you don't need 60 votes to pass this

00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:25.640
bill. There's supposed to be budget bills that

00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:28.779
deal with the debt and deficit. They really aren't

00:22:28.779 --> 00:22:32.200
supposed to be legislative. I would call this

00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:35.440
bill more of a hammer than a scalpel. Like it's

00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:38.819
supposed to really be a budget bill and not an

00:22:38.819 --> 00:22:42.470
authorization bill. And primarily dealing with

00:22:42.470 --> 00:22:46.250
tax code and with mandatory spending. Medicare,

00:22:46.349 --> 00:22:48.869
Medicaid, Social Security, veterans, those kind

00:22:48.869 --> 00:22:54.450
of snap mandatory programs. So what this bill

00:22:54.450 --> 00:22:58.589
was really focused on was extending the 2017

00:22:58.589 --> 00:23:03.869
tax breaks. So when they passed what they call

00:23:03.869 --> 00:23:07.750
the Trump tax bill in 2017. The vast majority

00:23:07.750 --> 00:23:10.450
of the corporate tax provisions were made permanent,

00:23:10.589 --> 00:23:13.990
except for some ones around research and development

00:23:13.990 --> 00:23:17.250
and a couple of other smaller ones. But most

00:23:17.250 --> 00:23:20.869
of the corporate provisions were permanent. What

00:23:20.869 --> 00:23:24.250
they did to lower the cost of the bill is they

00:23:24.250 --> 00:23:28.450
made the individual tax provisions for individuals

00:23:28.450 --> 00:23:32.349
and certain types of small companies or certain

00:23:32.349 --> 00:23:36.380
type of partnership companies. They made those

00:23:36.380 --> 00:23:41.359
temporary and they expired this year. And so

00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:45.099
the number one drive was to extend the individual

00:23:45.099 --> 00:23:48.359
tax breaks. So, quote, there wouldn't be a tax

00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:51.660
increase. And that was smart politics on the

00:23:51.660 --> 00:23:54.940
Republican side because they knew it would be

00:23:54.940 --> 00:23:57.559
politically more difficult to extend corporate

00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:01.680
tax breaks versus individual tax breaks. Where

00:24:01.680 --> 00:24:06.019
we come into play is counties. is to extend those

00:24:06.019 --> 00:24:09.420
tax breaks cost trillions of dollars. And they

00:24:09.420 --> 00:24:13.940
needed to try and find some offsets. So the Congressional

00:24:13.940 --> 00:24:17.160
Budget Office says that this bill will increase

00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:21.180
debt by about $3 .5 trillion. That's probably

00:24:21.180 --> 00:24:24.500
going to be the low number. But they also did

00:24:24.500 --> 00:24:29.180
offset some of the tax breaks. So at the end

00:24:29.180 --> 00:24:32.299
of the day, the cuts to Medicaid... are going

00:24:32.299 --> 00:24:34.720
to be about a trillion dollars over 10 years.

00:24:35.220 --> 00:24:38.960
The cuts to SNAP will come in probably below

00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:41.920
$200 billion, the way they did it at the end.

00:24:42.299 --> 00:24:45.339
But we also had some positives in this bill,

00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.460
and I think we should highlight a couple of the

00:24:48.460 --> 00:24:53.460
positives as well. We were able to defend taxes

00:24:53.460 --> 00:24:57.259
and municipal bonds. Municipal bonds were on

00:24:57.259 --> 00:25:00.319
the chopping block. Not because anybody has any

00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:03.420
philosophical problem with them, but it was one

00:25:03.420 --> 00:25:06.619
of the largest potential federal revenue raisers.

00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:10.960
If they had cut back on municipal bonds, they

00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:12.900
could have generated over $200 billion in new

00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:15.680
federal revenue. That was something that we really

00:25:15.680 --> 00:25:19.680
pushed pretty hard to stop. Yeah, and when you

00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:22.519
go back to NACO's role in what is intergovernmental

00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:25.440
relations, tax and municipal bonds have been

00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:30.710
around. predating the IRS tax code in 1913. They're

00:25:30.710 --> 00:25:35.170
a capitalist system, right? State local governments

00:25:35.170 --> 00:25:38.130
go to the private markets. Your interest rate

00:25:38.130 --> 00:25:41.470
is based on your credit. The better your credit,

00:25:41.589 --> 00:25:45.190
the lower the interest rate. A significant number

00:25:45.190 --> 00:25:48.109
of missile bonds have to be voter approved. They

00:25:48.109 --> 00:25:50.130
definitely have to be approved by a county board,

00:25:50.309 --> 00:25:56.200
but often require voter consent. I mean, where

00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:59.339
are you going to find a flaw in that? And as

00:25:59.339 --> 00:26:03.200
we've argued, it's not lost federal revenue because

00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:07.359
muni bonds predated the federal income tax code.

00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:10.380
So the way it gets scored is that the federal

00:26:10.380 --> 00:26:12.640
government's losing money, but it was money they

00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:15.980
never had. And state and local governments have

00:26:15.980 --> 00:26:18.180
been issuing municipal bonds going back to New

00:26:18.180 --> 00:26:23.140
York City far before the 1913 tax code. Now,

00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:25.700
Congress may come back and do a second reconciliation

00:26:25.700 --> 00:26:28.720
bill. And so we don't think this fight is over.

00:26:29.180 --> 00:26:32.799
The proposals that were floated early on that

00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:36.319
never made it into the big bill would have increased

00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:39.680
state and local borrowing costs by about 210

00:26:39.680 --> 00:26:43.839
basis points. So about 2 .1 percent. And of course,

00:26:43.859 --> 00:26:46.779
it depends on the spread between municipal bonds,

00:26:47.059 --> 00:26:50.039
tax exempt bonds and taxable bonds. And that

00:26:50.039 --> 00:26:52.849
does vary. But it would have increased state

00:26:52.849 --> 00:26:55.309
and local borrowing costs about $800 billion

00:26:55.309 --> 00:26:58.250
over 10 years. So a really significant fight.

00:26:58.450 --> 00:27:00.289
We don't think it's over, but we're going to

00:27:00.289 --> 00:27:03.869
continue to put pressure on. It's important to

00:27:03.869 --> 00:27:08.230
note that how much more impact that creates than

00:27:08.230 --> 00:27:10.250
what it actually would save the federal government.

00:27:10.309 --> 00:27:13.130
So for a small amount of money, by comparison,

00:27:13.430 --> 00:27:15.450
I should say, for a much smaller amount of money.

00:27:15.769 --> 00:27:18.750
they can actually save government overall around

00:27:18.750 --> 00:27:21.670
and their partners and state and local government

00:27:21.670 --> 00:27:26.049
much more. Right. And what's really important

00:27:26.049 --> 00:27:29.109
for folks to remember about this debate over

00:27:29.109 --> 00:27:32.730
tax and municipal bonds, one, state and local

00:27:32.730 --> 00:27:35.049
governments pay more, meaning your taxpayers

00:27:35.049 --> 00:27:37.930
pay more because your borrowing costs go up.

00:27:38.609 --> 00:27:43.009
It costs, it would be over 200 basis points typically.

00:27:43.969 --> 00:27:47.029
with the lenders. But how the federal government

00:27:47.029 --> 00:27:50.089
raises money isn't from state and local governments.

00:27:50.170 --> 00:27:53.410
It's actually from the bondholders. Bondholders,

00:27:53.589 --> 00:27:56.970
their investment returns would now be taxable.

00:27:57.089 --> 00:27:59.829
And so they'd basically be paying capital gains

00:27:59.829 --> 00:28:04.589
on that. And who owns most municipal bonds are

00:28:04.589 --> 00:28:09.529
elderly. They're safe investments. So they've

00:28:09.529 --> 00:28:11.869
gotten out of the stock market and they've put

00:28:11.869 --> 00:28:15.950
their money into safe. maybe lower returns, but

00:28:15.950 --> 00:28:19.710
that's who's getting punished if they end up

00:28:19.710 --> 00:28:22.869
taking away the tax status. So it's both the

00:28:22.869 --> 00:28:26.390
local taxpayer and the bondholders. And I think

00:28:26.390 --> 00:28:28.789
that's why at the end of the day, they left them

00:28:28.789 --> 00:28:32.329
alone. But housing is another huge issue facing

00:28:32.329 --> 00:28:34.490
counties across the country, and I know in your

00:28:34.490 --> 00:28:37.450
state as well. And they did increase the volume

00:28:37.450 --> 00:28:40.069
for the tax credits for low -income housing tax

00:28:40.069 --> 00:28:43.140
credits. That's a good thing. The new markets

00:28:43.140 --> 00:28:46.980
tax credit was extended. Also, I think, you know,

00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:49.460
I know Wasik has done a lot of work on renewable

00:28:49.460 --> 00:28:54.140
energy and the growth of wind and solar. And

00:28:54.140 --> 00:28:57.079
there is a new renewable energy revenue sharing

00:28:57.079 --> 00:29:00.720
on public lands, on federal public lands that

00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:03.259
mirrors the oil and gas revenue sharing models.

00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:07.400
So 25 percent of the revenue from wind and solar

00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:10.359
energy produced on federal lands will be a revenue

00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:13.150
share. down to state and local governments, especially

00:29:13.150 --> 00:29:15.769
with counties. So there were some good things

00:29:15.769 --> 00:29:19.890
in there. On the conservation front, they basically

00:29:19.890 --> 00:29:22.730
took a lot of the farm bill programs for conservation.

00:29:23.450 --> 00:29:26.609
And the outlook for the farm bill is not great.

00:29:26.769 --> 00:29:29.390
And so they took a lot of the commodity programs

00:29:29.390 --> 00:29:32.549
and conservation programs and put them into this

00:29:32.549 --> 00:29:36.349
reconciliation bill. And so those are some of

00:29:36.349 --> 00:29:38.970
the more positives, but we have real significant

00:29:38.970 --> 00:29:43.430
concerns. about the Medicaid and SNAP issues.

00:29:43.730 --> 00:29:46.809
And it really goes back to the county role in

00:29:46.809 --> 00:29:49.529
indigent care, uncompensated care, and healthcare,

00:29:49.670 --> 00:29:53.809
and being really the last resort, the social

00:29:53.809 --> 00:29:58.089
safety net provider at the ground. Yeah, to me,

00:29:58.190 --> 00:30:01.849
you know, unlike a lot of estates in Washington,

00:30:01.970 --> 00:30:04.430
we don't really have, there's one county -run

00:30:04.430 --> 00:30:06.970
hospital. Mostly they're in districts if they're

00:30:06.970 --> 00:30:13.339
public. you know, some other relationship. But

00:30:13.339 --> 00:30:17.440
at the same time, we see those downstream impacts,

00:30:17.619 --> 00:30:20.460
for sure. You know, it impacts public health,

00:30:20.519 --> 00:30:23.799
it impacts our justice system, it impacts, you

00:30:23.799 --> 00:30:27.160
know, all of these outcomes that we're constantly

00:30:27.160 --> 00:30:31.680
trying to work on. And that's where it shows

00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:34.740
up, at least for our members, the most. You know,

00:30:34.779 --> 00:30:39.130
Derek, you hit it there, I think. When you were

00:30:39.130 --> 00:30:42.470
chair of our health committee and just when you

00:30:42.470 --> 00:30:44.970
were at the county, and I know counties across

00:30:44.970 --> 00:30:47.289
Washington State have been very involved in our

00:30:47.289 --> 00:30:49.750
Stepping Up campaign. We just had a 10 -year

00:30:49.750 --> 00:30:53.710
celebration where over 10 years ago, the number

00:30:53.710 --> 00:30:57.690
one issue facing counties was the over -incarceration

00:30:57.690 --> 00:31:00.970
of community members for mental health issues.

00:31:01.069 --> 00:31:05.390
Not for crimes, but when someone had a mental

00:31:05.390 --> 00:31:08.720
health crisis. We call 911 and we ask the sheriff

00:31:08.720 --> 00:31:11.160
and the sheriff deputies to come deal with it

00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:14.099
rather than a mental health professional. And

00:31:14.099 --> 00:31:19.720
we saw through the criminal justice system, going

00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:22.539
back to my background with my stepfather who

00:31:22.539 --> 00:31:25.240
raised me being a district attorney and a judge

00:31:25.240 --> 00:31:26.859
and my mother's a mental health professional,

00:31:27.099 --> 00:31:31.410
I've seen it firsthand. And have just seen the

00:31:31.410 --> 00:31:34.529
extraordinary cost to society, both to residents,

00:31:34.690 --> 00:31:38.829
but also the taxpayers on when you're using prosecutors,

00:31:39.150 --> 00:31:42.490
public defenders and judges to navigate a mental

00:31:42.490 --> 00:31:45.130
health system. It's really expensive. And we

00:31:45.130 --> 00:31:48.190
were getting poor outcomes. And I think our concern

00:31:48.190 --> 00:31:52.910
is we are always going to support getting rid

00:31:52.910 --> 00:31:56.150
of fraud and abuse in any public system. We're

00:31:56.150 --> 00:31:59.730
always going to support doing really. due diligence

00:31:59.730 --> 00:32:03.150
on who's eligible for these programs. But what

00:32:03.150 --> 00:32:06.069
we are concerned about is all this progress in

00:32:06.069 --> 00:32:09.069
mental health is going to take a step back. We

00:32:09.069 --> 00:32:12.710
don't want to see our jails, and not that we

00:32:12.710 --> 00:32:15.009
have gotten over this because it's still true,

00:32:15.230 --> 00:32:18.309
but we don't want our jails to be primary health

00:32:18.309 --> 00:32:20.529
care facilities, particularly for mental health.

00:32:21.049 --> 00:32:25.269
That's not our goal. Yeah, I, you know, I'm not

00:32:25.269 --> 00:32:27.329
sure if this is true in every state, but certainly

00:32:27.329 --> 00:32:32.009
in ours, you know, I was struggling to find a

00:32:32.009 --> 00:32:36.470
crisis center in a large urban county. We didn't

00:32:36.470 --> 00:32:39.289
have any in Pierce County for for some time.

00:32:39.329 --> 00:32:42.170
And so I would know we actually do have a large

00:32:42.170 --> 00:32:43.529
mental health facility. It's called the county

00:32:43.529 --> 00:32:47.000
jail. Right. So it's not that we're not trying

00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:49.480
to provide some care. We're just doing it possibly

00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:51.880
in the most ineffective method you could think

00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:54.700
of in an environment that is not therapeutic

00:32:54.700 --> 00:32:59.079
and, you know, extraordinarily expensive. Well,

00:32:59.240 --> 00:33:02.660
you know, 10 years ago when we started working

00:33:02.660 --> 00:33:07.339
on this, our biggest problem was finding financing

00:33:07.339 --> 00:33:10.160
for capital infrastructure to actually build

00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:14.210
facilities. Yeah. Then the CARES Act comes, the

00:33:14.210 --> 00:33:17.210
American Rescue Plan comes, and counties across

00:33:17.210 --> 00:33:22.029
the country finally had money to improve, obviously,

00:33:22.029 --> 00:33:25.210
our public health facilities, but also our behavioral

00:33:25.210 --> 00:33:28.890
health facilities. And we were able to build

00:33:28.890 --> 00:33:33.109
short -term crisis centers, de -escalation centers,

00:33:33.589 --> 00:33:36.569
alternative booking centers. Now we can't find

00:33:36.569 --> 00:33:40.549
the workforce. And that's the frustrating part,

00:33:40.670 --> 00:33:44.250
I think, for counties is money is a problem,

00:33:44.369 --> 00:33:47.089
but so is the workforce. And when we talk to

00:33:47.089 --> 00:33:49.390
county managers, county administrators, department

00:33:49.390 --> 00:33:52.809
heads, the number one issue facing counties really

00:33:52.809 --> 00:33:56.890
is finding the talented workforce to carry out

00:33:56.890 --> 00:34:00.609
all the needs. And so I think when we talk about

00:34:00.609 --> 00:34:04.289
Medicaid and SNAP, particularly for your state

00:34:04.289 --> 00:34:06.650
and in those states where the counties administer

00:34:06.650 --> 00:34:10.199
these programs, Those are really tough positions.

00:34:10.300 --> 00:34:13.519
Those are burnout positions that have high turnover

00:34:13.519 --> 00:34:17.679
rates. And that's going to be a challenge. And

00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:20.039
we're going to need to innovate. Technology will

00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:22.380
be part of the solution, but not the sole solution.

00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:27.179
And so in a state like Washington, where the

00:34:27.179 --> 00:34:30.239
state government handles the Medicaid and SNAP

00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:33.039
administration, I think what your county officials

00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:36.380
need to be prepared for is your upcoming budget

00:34:36.380 --> 00:34:39.980
cycles. that your legislature is really going

00:34:39.980 --> 00:34:43.579
to struggle to backfill these federal cuts in

00:34:43.579 --> 00:34:48.179
Medicaid and SNAP. And so while it may not impact

00:34:48.179 --> 00:34:52.000
counties directly, it will indirectly when the

00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:54.880
state has to scramble to find hundreds of millions

00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:58.039
of dollars from other programs to shift into

00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:01.079
Medicaid and SNAP. Yeah, that's certainly true

00:35:01.079 --> 00:35:03.440
here in Washington. You know, we think it's in

00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:06.400
the four or five billion dollar range for the

00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:09.480
state. And at the same time, our Supreme Court

00:35:09.480 --> 00:35:12.480
handed us a little gift for our public defense

00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:16.119
system, requiring us to triple the number of

00:35:16.119 --> 00:35:18.260
attorneys, which we figure is probably going

00:35:18.260 --> 00:35:21.719
to be about a billion dollars when it's all said

00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:23.920
and done. So where are the states going to come

00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:26.239
up with that kind of money? I don't know. So

00:35:26.239 --> 00:35:29.059
I mean, almost certainly going to face some significant

00:35:29.059 --> 00:35:33.679
cuts. Yeah. And, you know, things like public

00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:36.219
defense, we talk about the U .S. Constitution

00:35:36.219 --> 00:35:38.659
and the right to counsel and defense. I mean,

00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:43.719
those are big constitutional issues and most

00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:45.840
counties want to make sure their residents have

00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:48.460
adequate public defense. But when you start to

00:35:48.460 --> 00:35:50.940
look at the price tag on these things, they are

00:35:50.940 --> 00:35:54.739
beyond the means of most counties. And of course,

00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:57.659
you have tight property tax caps. And unless

00:35:57.659 --> 00:36:03.269
you're flipping housing and able to read. reassess,

00:36:03.269 --> 00:36:06.929
it's really difficult. Yeah, in Washington, we

00:36:06.929 --> 00:36:09.610
have a cap on the property tax revenue. So it

00:36:09.610 --> 00:36:12.090
really doesn't matter what it's valued at or

00:36:12.090 --> 00:36:16.190
whatever. You know, they limit it in a different

00:36:16.190 --> 00:36:19.550
way and it's only 1%. So over 20 years, that's

00:36:19.550 --> 00:36:23.730
been slowly strangling us. Yeah, and Derek, I

00:36:23.730 --> 00:36:25.789
think one of the things for county officials

00:36:25.789 --> 00:36:28.519
that we need to think through of... As we say,

00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:30.239
we like to come with solutions. We don't want

00:36:30.239 --> 00:36:34.900
to come with the wine and W -H -I -N -E. And

00:36:34.900 --> 00:36:38.940
sometimes it results in W -I -N -E. But, you

00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:41.780
know, what we're trying to say to our county

00:36:41.780 --> 00:36:45.739
officials is you ran to lead your communities.

00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:48.840
You ran typically because you wanted to make

00:36:48.840 --> 00:36:51.539
your community better. And you're going to have

00:36:51.539 --> 00:36:53.559
a lot thrown at you from the federal and state

00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:58.230
level. From a federal perspective. We're dealing

00:36:58.230 --> 00:37:04.210
with funding cuts. We're dealing with kind of

00:37:04.210 --> 00:37:06.289
this erosion of some of the social safety net

00:37:06.289 --> 00:37:09.409
programs. We're dealing with what is the federal

00:37:09.409 --> 00:37:12.230
role in disaster recovery? Should FEMA exist?

00:37:12.489 --> 00:37:16.070
If FEMA exists, should it focus on mitigation

00:37:16.070 --> 00:37:20.590
response recovery? Should it only focus on immediate

00:37:20.590 --> 00:37:24.250
response, call it the first 72 hours? And then

00:37:24.250 --> 00:37:25.889
it's up to the state and local governments to

00:37:25.889 --> 00:37:28.469
figure it out from there. And of course, in a

00:37:28.469 --> 00:37:30.769
state like yours, public lands management is

00:37:30.769 --> 00:37:34.110
just huge. Whether it's fires, natural resource

00:37:34.110 --> 00:37:37.650
extraction, endangered species, like there's

00:37:37.650 --> 00:37:41.690
just a lot to navigate. And I think with these

00:37:41.690 --> 00:37:43.929
bills and the research that you mentioned earlier,

00:37:44.150 --> 00:37:48.110
we're just trying to chip away and help the county

00:37:48.110 --> 00:37:51.050
officials think through how they're going to

00:37:51.050 --> 00:37:54.030
make their community better. when they're giving

00:37:54.030 --> 00:37:57.789
added responsibilities. And it can be overwhelming,

00:37:57.989 --> 00:38:00.849
but what we're trying to do with these counties

00:38:00.849 --> 00:38:05.750
is take it one bite at a time. That's one place

00:38:05.750 --> 00:38:09.210
where I think our respective organizations are

00:38:09.210 --> 00:38:13.349
essential, where it's that convening kind of

00:38:13.349 --> 00:38:15.789
role, not only to deal with our partners, but

00:38:15.789 --> 00:38:18.090
also to learn from each other so that our leaders

00:38:18.090 --> 00:38:24.289
are figuring out. how others are navigating these

00:38:24.289 --> 00:38:27.670
complicated issues and hopefully picking up some

00:38:27.670 --> 00:38:31.150
best practices. Yeah. And, you know, not that

00:38:31.150 --> 00:38:34.590
counties are unique in this, but what I love

00:38:34.590 --> 00:38:37.030
about county governments is particularly our

00:38:37.030 --> 00:38:38.869
elected officials, but also our professional

00:38:38.869 --> 00:38:41.630
staff. They have really diverse backgrounds.

00:38:41.829 --> 00:38:45.590
They have their professionals in something else.

00:38:45.949 --> 00:38:48.710
And at some point they turn to public service.

00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:51.719
They're farmers, they're ranchers, they're doctors,

00:38:51.820 --> 00:38:54.019
they're business owners. They have all sorts

00:38:54.019 --> 00:38:58.000
of skills. And I think what we need as a country

00:38:58.000 --> 00:39:01.280
and what we need as an association is to crowdsource

00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:05.579
that expertise and really identify what are the

00:39:05.579 --> 00:39:08.940
different passions of our members and how do

00:39:08.940 --> 00:39:12.300
we harness that. And so when we're talking about

00:39:12.300 --> 00:39:15.960
Medicaid, for example, we have a lot of county

00:39:15.960 --> 00:39:19.190
officials with expertise. They're doctors, nurses.

00:39:20.010 --> 00:39:22.590
Maybe they're on the insurance side of the business.

00:39:23.050 --> 00:39:27.010
They're facility operators. They know the real

00:39:27.010 --> 00:39:32.030
-world impacts of these policies. And they're

00:39:32.030 --> 00:39:34.090
on the front lines. And I think what we want

00:39:34.090 --> 00:39:37.369
to do is listen to them and figure out what's

00:39:37.369 --> 00:39:40.409
broken, but also what works and how can we scale

00:39:40.409 --> 00:39:43.469
it up. Because, again, status quo is just not

00:39:43.469 --> 00:39:47.980
going to be an option. Yeah, absolutely. Oh,

00:39:48.039 --> 00:39:51.280
sorry, go ahead. You know, housing is an issue

00:39:51.280 --> 00:39:54.239
that keeps coming up. And one of the things I'm

00:39:54.239 --> 00:39:57.300
proud of is we recently launched a competition

00:39:57.300 --> 00:40:00.980
and had limited funding. But this is just an

00:40:00.980 --> 00:40:05.900
example of we had half a dozen counties participate

00:40:05.900 --> 00:40:08.659
in a pilot of how could they use county -owned

00:40:08.659 --> 00:40:12.039
land to build housing that's more affordable.

00:40:12.219 --> 00:40:14.659
And you notice I didn't say affordable housing.

00:40:14.739 --> 00:40:17.489
It's housing affordability. And particularly

00:40:17.489 --> 00:40:21.789
for middle income, including county employees.

00:40:22.309 --> 00:40:24.670
And within six months, we had a bunch of counties

00:40:24.670 --> 00:40:27.309
that went from, yeah, they were exploring it,

00:40:27.389 --> 00:40:30.449
but they dug into it. And now they're actually

00:40:30.449 --> 00:40:33.389
building hundreds of units of new housing on

00:40:33.389 --> 00:40:35.469
county owned land. And you need a public private

00:40:35.469 --> 00:40:38.309
partnerships. Sometimes they sold the land. Sometimes

00:40:38.309 --> 00:40:41.070
they held the land and leased it to a developer.

00:40:41.650 --> 00:40:47.010
And that's basically saying. We can drive progress

00:40:47.010 --> 00:40:49.670
if we put our mind to it and we prioritize. And

00:40:49.670 --> 00:40:52.110
I think, again, coming out of all this federal

00:40:52.110 --> 00:40:55.449
disruption, that's the mindset we have to have.

00:40:57.050 --> 00:41:00.329
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, housing is certainly

00:41:00.329 --> 00:41:04.369
a significant issue here. One of the other things

00:41:04.369 --> 00:41:07.050
that I wanted to touch on, because emergency

00:41:07.050 --> 00:41:10.190
management is such a critical piece of county

00:41:10.190 --> 00:41:15.099
business, obviously. We have a lot of disaster

00:41:15.099 --> 00:41:21.460
responsibilities. There's been kind of an interesting

00:41:21.460 --> 00:41:23.739
back and forth this year at the federal level

00:41:23.739 --> 00:41:26.500
where it felt like we were finally making some

00:41:26.500 --> 00:41:30.039
progress on looking for some reforms that we

00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:33.719
do think FEMA needs. But now it also looks like

00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:38.420
there's a potential, for lack of a better term,

00:41:38.440 --> 00:41:42.960
disaster. disaster funding. And so talk a little

00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:44.679
bit about what's going on with FEMA these days.

00:41:44.800 --> 00:41:47.139
Yeah, so let's start with the data, going back

00:41:47.139 --> 00:41:50.760
to research. And when we looked back 20 years,

00:41:51.059 --> 00:41:55.380
we would have about 300 counties a year with

00:41:55.380 --> 00:41:58.400
a disaster that reached the level of a federal

00:41:58.400 --> 00:42:01.420
designation, a FEMA presidential disaster declaration.

00:42:02.619 --> 00:42:05.639
And then it went up to 500 and then 700. In the

00:42:05.639 --> 00:42:08.940
last five years, we were over 900 counties a

00:42:08.940 --> 00:42:11.980
year. So almost a third of our nation's county

00:42:11.980 --> 00:42:15.019
was having a natural disaster that qualified

00:42:15.019 --> 00:42:17.960
for federal assistance. This last year, we were

00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:21.340
actually over a thousand counties. And yeah,

00:42:21.800 --> 00:42:26.780
some of that might be is the declaration dollar

00:42:26.780 --> 00:42:29.480
amount keeping up with inflation and cost. Yeah,

00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:32.340
there's some truth to that. But most of it is

00:42:32.340 --> 00:42:36.159
these multi -billion dollar disasters and they're

00:42:36.159 --> 00:42:39.900
occurring everywhere. And as executive director

00:42:39.900 --> 00:42:42.280
of NACO, I travel the country and I often go

00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:45.460
visit communities. I've been to Maui, been to

00:42:45.460 --> 00:42:48.079
Los Angeles, been to Western North Carolina.

00:42:48.539 --> 00:42:51.340
And everywhere I went last year, every community

00:42:51.340 --> 00:42:53.920
told me it was the worst disaster in their history.

00:42:54.059 --> 00:42:57.980
You know, Maui. lost 1 ,700 homes in literally

00:42:57.980 --> 00:43:02.179
like 17 minutes. Los Angeles County, in the unincorporated

00:43:02.179 --> 00:43:06.800
part, the Altadena Fire, lost over 9 ,000 homes

00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:10.360
and structures. Wow. And just the speed of these

00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:13.800
storms, and of course, in Texas recently, we

00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:17.260
saw the horrific flooding. So what is going on

00:43:17.260 --> 00:43:20.820
is the cost to the federal government keeps going

00:43:20.820 --> 00:43:26.889
up. And there is... a debate on what is the appropriate

00:43:26.889 --> 00:43:31.610
federal role in emergency management. And again,

00:43:31.670 --> 00:43:34.750
breaking it down to mitigation, response, and

00:43:34.750 --> 00:43:38.110
recovery, there's a debate of maybe mitigation

00:43:38.110 --> 00:43:41.369
is more of a state and local. Maybe long -term

00:43:41.369 --> 00:43:44.309
recovery is more state and local. And maybe the

00:43:44.309 --> 00:43:47.590
federal role should be more limited to immediate

00:43:47.590 --> 00:43:50.429
response. But we should turn it more over to

00:43:50.429 --> 00:43:53.610
the states. And so I think it's a healthy debate.

00:43:54.579 --> 00:43:59.659
NACO was critical of FEMA before the election.

00:43:59.940 --> 00:44:02.900
Our president at the time, James Gore from Sonoma

00:44:02.900 --> 00:44:06.980
County, who he lost over 7 ,000 homes in one

00:44:06.980 --> 00:44:10.760
fire in his district within his county and had

00:44:10.760 --> 00:44:12.639
actually three or four other fires. And then,

00:44:12.659 --> 00:44:15.019
of course, flooding that comes with it. And so

00:44:15.019 --> 00:44:17.820
he had a lot of firsthand knowledge of the challenges

00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:21.719
with FEMA. But we never wanted the role of FEMA

00:44:21.719 --> 00:44:26.099
to go away. We just wanted transparency on what

00:44:26.099 --> 00:44:28.880
is eligible for federal reimbursement. We wanted

00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:31.420
faster federal reimbursement because counties

00:44:31.420 --> 00:44:36.039
are cash flowing billions in federal aid. Of

00:44:36.039 --> 00:44:38.699
course, your county officials will know, particularly

00:44:38.699 --> 00:44:41.400
things like debris removal, counties being up

00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:43.940
front, and then it takes years for the federal

00:44:43.940 --> 00:44:46.840
government to reimburse us. So we wanted transparency.

00:44:47.039 --> 00:44:49.820
We thought you could build a website that showed.

00:44:50.409 --> 00:44:53.070
Where is a county reimbursement request? Is it

00:44:53.070 --> 00:44:55.190
at the state level? Is it at the FEMA regional

00:44:55.190 --> 00:44:57.150
level? Is it at the FEMA headquarters level?

00:44:57.590 --> 00:45:00.429
If a county didn't submit the proper paperwork

00:45:00.429 --> 00:45:03.730
or follow federal rules, let us know and give

00:45:03.730 --> 00:45:06.389
us a time to cure it within a reasonable time.

00:45:07.110 --> 00:45:10.650
So right now, the president has a FEMA review

00:45:10.650 --> 00:45:14.570
council that is looking at all these questions.

00:45:15.190 --> 00:45:18.469
How did state and local governments handle disaster

00:45:18.469 --> 00:45:21.730
management? prior to a stronger federal role?

00:45:22.130 --> 00:45:26.429
What would it look like in the future? And we're

00:45:26.429 --> 00:45:29.309
really trying to influence it, saying we can't

00:45:29.309 --> 00:45:32.789
have the federal government step back. We certainly

00:45:32.789 --> 00:45:36.829
are open to reforms. We certainly know state

00:45:36.829 --> 00:45:39.550
and local governments have a role. But we also

00:45:39.550 --> 00:45:41.489
got to bring in the insurance companies. We got

00:45:41.489 --> 00:45:43.849
to bring in home builders. We got to bring in

00:45:43.849 --> 00:45:46.949
realtors. We got to bring in all sorts of different

00:45:46.949 --> 00:45:51.559
folks to look at it. But counties need to pay

00:45:51.559 --> 00:45:54.340
attention because it's also about land use and

00:45:54.340 --> 00:45:56.199
where are we going to build? How are we going

00:45:56.199 --> 00:46:02.440
to build? And I keep telling folks, there's a

00:46:02.440 --> 00:46:05.480
lot of reasons for our housing crisis. Some of

00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:09.500
it's disasters that the cost to build in the

00:46:09.500 --> 00:46:13.440
current climate costs more. If you go to Florida

00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:17.880
and you see post -hurricane, you can tell which.

00:46:18.300 --> 00:46:21.000
building codes the houses were built to, which

00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:24.480
era of building codes. And that's costly. So

00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:29.260
it's just this debate of do we pay up front or

00:46:29.260 --> 00:46:33.400
do we pay after disaster? Yeah, I come from a

00:46:33.400 --> 00:46:35.500
banking background. And the thing I've always

00:46:35.500 --> 00:46:38.179
said when it comes to, you know, these disaster

00:46:38.179 --> 00:46:41.539
-prone areas is, you know, it somewhat doesn't

00:46:41.539 --> 00:46:44.000
matter what policymakers end up thinking because

00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:46.340
the insurers and banks are going to make the

00:46:46.340 --> 00:46:51.039
decision for you. The trick is to make sure that

00:46:51.039 --> 00:46:54.280
it's done in a less chaotic way, because once

00:46:54.280 --> 00:46:56.239
the banks have made their decision, we're not

00:46:56.239 --> 00:46:58.239
lending here anymore. You know, you'll really

00:46:58.239 --> 00:47:02.260
have a problem that is difficult to manage because

00:47:02.260 --> 00:47:04.360
the community will begin to fall apart. You know,

00:47:04.380 --> 00:47:07.739
everyone will have a race to the door to try

00:47:07.739 --> 00:47:11.380
to exit before the market drops. Yeah. And going

00:47:11.380 --> 00:47:16.099
back to our intergovernmental role and. What

00:47:16.099 --> 00:47:18.659
I explain to folks, too, on the disaster front

00:47:18.659 --> 00:47:23.260
is, yes, counties have a significant operations

00:47:23.260 --> 00:47:25.940
role in emergency management. Most counties across

00:47:25.940 --> 00:47:29.179
this country have emergency management departments.

00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:32.739
We're typically the lead local agency working

00:47:32.739 --> 00:47:37.019
with the state. We have significant roles and

00:47:37.019 --> 00:47:41.019
responsibilities. But we're also a property tax

00:47:41.019 --> 00:47:44.400
-based government. In K -12 schools and counties,

00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:47.019
out of all the other governments, are typically

00:47:47.019 --> 00:47:50.500
the ones that rely on strong property values.

00:47:50.820 --> 00:47:53.099
The federal government lives off income tax and

00:47:53.099 --> 00:47:56.460
capital gains. States typically live off of income

00:47:56.460 --> 00:48:00.880
tax, although not all states, or sales tax. And

00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:05.340
so for us, there's also this self -interest of

00:48:05.340 --> 00:48:09.460
we want strong home values to fund our public

00:48:09.460 --> 00:48:12.559
services. And so when we talk about disasters,

00:48:13.420 --> 00:48:16.739
We're also talking about property values. And

00:48:16.739 --> 00:48:20.179
I think we have a lot of self -interest that

00:48:20.179 --> 00:48:23.280
other levels of government don't. And they don't

00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:25.139
look at it through the same lens that we do.

00:48:26.019 --> 00:48:30.699
Yeah, absolutely. So we're getting close on time

00:48:30.699 --> 00:48:33.219
here. And I want to be respectful of your time.

00:48:33.320 --> 00:48:35.619
But I also wanted to make sure we talked a little

00:48:35.619 --> 00:48:40.039
bit about something that. NACO does for its members

00:48:40.039 --> 00:48:43.380
and it's your edge program. We're actually launching

00:48:43.380 --> 00:48:44.960
something kind of similar here in Washington.

00:48:45.519 --> 00:48:48.420
We call it our solution center, which is finding

00:48:48.420 --> 00:48:53.380
partners to improve efficiency, save money. But

00:48:53.380 --> 00:48:55.139
in fact, I thought it was kind of funny at the

00:48:55.139 --> 00:48:57.019
conference. I don't know if I noticed this before

00:48:57.019 --> 00:48:59.960
and tucked it in the back of my brain, but your

00:48:59.960 --> 00:49:03.019
edge program was cited in what was branded as

00:49:03.019 --> 00:49:05.679
a solution center. And I thought, oh, no, did

00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:09.119
I? Did I commit some sort of copyright infringement?

00:49:09.119 --> 00:49:14.340
Not a hand. Well, we're an open source organization

00:49:14.340 --> 00:49:19.619
anyways. So what are we talking about here is

00:49:19.619 --> 00:49:24.880
what is happening in the private sector is companies

00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:27.219
are becoming bigger and bigger. And why do they

00:49:27.219 --> 00:49:31.860
do that? Because scale. Scale is king in the

00:49:31.860 --> 00:49:33.900
private sector, whether you're banks, hospitals,

00:49:34.239 --> 00:49:38.590
technology companies. And what we've thought

00:49:38.590 --> 00:49:42.769
for many years is we need to combat scale with

00:49:42.769 --> 00:49:46.590
scale. So when we talked about the size of county

00:49:46.590 --> 00:49:49.389
governments at the beginning, counties invest

00:49:49.389 --> 00:49:53.789
about $770 billion a year. If you took all the

00:49:53.789 --> 00:49:56.050
collective budgets of counties across the country,

00:49:56.210 --> 00:49:59.989
our purchasing scale is three quarters of a trillion

00:49:59.989 --> 00:50:04.670
dollars a year. We have 3 .6 million employees.

00:50:05.869 --> 00:50:10.510
But we also ensure about 8 million lives when

00:50:10.510 --> 00:50:14.550
you look at family independence. And so all we're

00:50:14.550 --> 00:50:18.590
simply trying to do is leverage the purchasing

00:50:18.590 --> 00:50:21.710
scale of counties across the country for better

00:50:21.710 --> 00:50:25.070
pricing, better customer service from private

00:50:25.070 --> 00:50:29.289
vendors, and hopefully time savings. I think

00:50:29.289 --> 00:50:33.150
a lot of counties, their procurement teams are

00:50:33.150 --> 00:50:37.269
understaffed right now. They're overworked. And

00:50:37.269 --> 00:50:39.869
some small counties might laugh and say, we don't

00:50:39.869 --> 00:50:42.250
even have a procurement team. It's the clerk

00:50:42.250 --> 00:50:44.789
to the board or it's a department head or maybe

00:50:44.789 --> 00:50:47.449
it's even elected officials having to do it.

00:50:47.530 --> 00:50:52.329
And so all we're trying to do is bring the expertise

00:50:52.329 --> 00:50:55.530
of our membership together through our procurement

00:50:55.530 --> 00:51:00.570
directors and other experts and go to the market

00:51:00.570 --> 00:51:04.550
and say, if we could bundle our purchasing power,

00:51:05.230 --> 00:51:07.670
Would we get better pricing? Would we get faster

00:51:07.670 --> 00:51:10.690
response? Would we get better customer service?

00:51:10.949 --> 00:51:14.170
And we've done it on things like elevators and

00:51:14.170 --> 00:51:18.309
escalators to office supplies to other things.

00:51:18.869 --> 00:51:22.110
I think the one that we're really excited about

00:51:22.110 --> 00:51:27.650
is our PBM for prescription drugs. PBMs are complicated

00:51:27.650 --> 00:51:31.750
and they're messy and they're basically a middleman.

00:51:33.690 --> 00:51:36.610
Pharmaceutical spend has become a bigger part

00:51:36.610 --> 00:51:39.929
of the health care spend. So basically what we've

00:51:39.929 --> 00:51:41.710
tried to do is leverage our scale for better

00:51:41.710 --> 00:51:45.150
pricing. And we're finding 20 to 30 percent savings

00:51:45.150 --> 00:51:48.949
for counties purchasing prescription drug policies

00:51:48.949 --> 00:51:52.590
for their workers and retirees, et cetera. And

00:51:52.590 --> 00:51:55.050
that's the whole bottom line, whether Wasek does

00:51:55.050 --> 00:51:58.210
it or NACO does it or we do it in partnership.

00:51:58.909 --> 00:52:03.449
It's all about scale. We also are very careful

00:52:03.449 --> 00:52:07.769
that when local counties need to use local businesses

00:52:07.769 --> 00:52:10.530
and their local vendors, we always respect that.

00:52:10.590 --> 00:52:14.130
We never prefer that. And we really try and focus

00:52:14.130 --> 00:52:17.530
on things like take elevators. You know, there's

00:52:17.530 --> 00:52:19.289
only two really big companies in the country.

00:52:19.389 --> 00:52:23.010
So it's not something that typically you have

00:52:23.010 --> 00:52:27.289
local manufacturers or expertise in. And so it's

00:52:27.289 --> 00:52:29.690
an appropriate use to use national contracts.

00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:32.599
And I think that's what we're trying to do is

00:52:32.599 --> 00:52:35.639
help counties with your local businesses stay

00:52:35.639 --> 00:52:38.920
out of that way. But where we can bring cost

00:52:38.920 --> 00:52:42.000
savings, bring it bring that force to the table.

00:52:42.780 --> 00:52:46.719
We recently had an example in Skagit County of

00:52:46.719 --> 00:52:51.000
the pharmacy benefit and that buying power. They

00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:53.480
were actually working with a consultant and which

00:52:53.480 --> 00:52:57.599
is fairly common. And so they got the bid from.

00:52:58.840 --> 00:53:01.840
from NACO Edge and the consultant did not believe

00:53:01.840 --> 00:53:04.800
it. He said, I don't think these numbers are

00:53:04.800 --> 00:53:07.519
right and challenged them and pushed back and

00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:10.239
said, this doesn't make any sense for me. I've

00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:13.739
seen what CBS, who is the provider, is willing

00:53:13.739 --> 00:53:16.820
to do. And they had to kind of convince them

00:53:16.820 --> 00:53:19.039
that, no, this is actually the deal that we negotiated

00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:22.260
because it's a national pool rather than local.

00:53:23.599 --> 00:53:25.460
You're so right. And we're hearing that over

00:53:25.460 --> 00:53:28.719
and over where the consultants, brokers. haven't

00:53:28.719 --> 00:53:32.320
seen pricing like this, except for a Walmart

00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:34.539
or an Apple or some of these huge employers.

00:53:35.500 --> 00:53:40.280
That's the whole point is when we employ 2 %

00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:42.679
of the American workforce and even a higher number

00:53:42.679 --> 00:53:46.780
of insured lives, let's use that scale. And what's

00:53:46.780 --> 00:53:51.199
really unique about our program is the county

00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:53.280
can still design their program to meet their

00:53:53.280 --> 00:53:56.679
needs. They don't lose control. over the selection

00:53:56.679 --> 00:53:58.860
of which drugs are in their lineup. It might

00:53:58.860 --> 00:54:02.780
change the pricing, but it's not a one -size

00:54:02.780 --> 00:54:06.019
-fits -all program. And so I think that's really

00:54:06.019 --> 00:54:09.139
key is counties keep your local decision -making,

00:54:09.239 --> 00:54:12.219
but you're leveraging the purchasing power. I

00:54:12.219 --> 00:54:14.699
mean, our largest county in the country, Los

00:54:14.699 --> 00:54:20.019
Angeles County, has 110 ,000 employees. But as

00:54:20.019 --> 00:54:22.960
big as that is, maybe the seventh largest state,

00:54:23.530 --> 00:54:26.130
They're still small compared to 3 .6 million

00:54:26.130 --> 00:54:29.369
total. And if we can leverage the King counties

00:54:29.369 --> 00:54:33.550
and the Miami Dades and Los Angeles to help midsize

00:54:33.550 --> 00:54:36.610
and smaller counties with better pricing, I think

00:54:36.610 --> 00:54:40.070
we should do it. Some of our midsize counties,

00:54:40.130 --> 00:54:43.510
we've been saving anywhere from 10 to 15 million

00:54:43.510 --> 00:54:46.989
dollars a year. And that's that's significant.

00:54:47.630 --> 00:54:50.570
That's incredible. The other one that I was really

00:54:50.570 --> 00:54:53.650
excited about and. you didn't have when I was

00:54:53.650 --> 00:54:56.789
a member, but because I was in banking before

00:54:56.789 --> 00:55:00.150
three plus one in our cash fest program, I cracked

00:55:00.150 --> 00:55:03.130
up. I was at the, you know, NACIA, which is state

00:55:03.130 --> 00:55:05.869
administration association directors. And you

00:55:05.869 --> 00:55:08.090
and their team were kind of given an example

00:55:08.090 --> 00:55:10.590
of how it worked. And I immediately clocked it

00:55:10.590 --> 00:55:13.170
as, oh my God, this is such a brilliant idea.

00:55:13.250 --> 00:55:15.909
I had, they basically reverse engineered the

00:55:15.909 --> 00:55:19.510
way the banks make money off of our, our members.

00:55:21.099 --> 00:55:24.460
and turned it into a way for them to save money

00:55:24.460 --> 00:55:26.480
and make more money on their investments. Yeah,

00:55:26.559 --> 00:55:28.400
Derek, thanks for bringing up 3 Plus 1. It's

00:55:28.400 --> 00:55:30.820
one of my favorite programs. And just in full

00:55:30.820 --> 00:55:34.900
disclosure, NACO actually bought some shares

00:55:34.900 --> 00:55:37.579
in this company. Like, that's how much we believe

00:55:37.579 --> 00:55:40.579
in what they're doing. They're not a broker.

00:55:41.519 --> 00:55:46.199
Basically, they're analysts that look at your

00:55:46.199 --> 00:55:49.260
daily liquidity, your cash flow, almost to the

00:55:49.260 --> 00:55:52.590
minute. And they look at how can you generate

00:55:52.590 --> 00:55:55.590
more interest income off your cash, but also

00:55:55.590 --> 00:55:59.630
how can you look at your banking fees? Nago uses

00:55:59.630 --> 00:56:03.070
3 Plus 1 ourselves. We were actually able to

00:56:03.070 --> 00:56:07.010
generate significant higher interest on our cash.

00:56:07.389 --> 00:56:10.929
But what we also found, for example, was if we

00:56:10.929 --> 00:56:14.110
were still writing old paper checks, we had all

00:56:14.110 --> 00:56:18.250
sorts of hidden fees. And if we did ACH payments,

00:56:18.590 --> 00:56:23.019
it was like, less than six cents. We saved a

00:56:23.019 --> 00:56:25.440
bunch of money just moving from paper checks

00:56:25.440 --> 00:56:28.500
to ACH that you don't see on your statements.

00:56:28.699 --> 00:56:31.699
It's not obvious that you're paying these fees.

00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:34.780
And again, we're not trying to hurt the banks,

00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:37.820
but we want to be good stewards of taxpayer dollars.

00:56:38.039 --> 00:56:40.960
And we've helped generate over $2 billion in

00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:43.860
new interest income and reduced bank fees in

00:56:43.860 --> 00:56:46.739
a really short amount of time for counties. That's

00:56:46.739 --> 00:56:50.829
unbelievable. Kauai County out in Hawaii. they

00:56:50.829 --> 00:56:53.269
increased their interest income by $13 million

00:56:53.269 --> 00:56:58.750
a year. Wow. That's incredible. Yeah. Boone County,

00:56:58.889 --> 00:57:02.309
Kentucky, I think over $5 million a year. What's

00:57:02.309 --> 00:57:04.190
really important, I think, for the treasurers

00:57:04.190 --> 00:57:09.150
and others is they're doing a good job. These

00:57:09.150 --> 00:57:12.289
are just new tools using supercomputers and algorithms

00:57:12.289 --> 00:57:16.309
to do work much faster than it would take a team

00:57:16.309 --> 00:57:19.929
of analysts days and months to do. Yeah, disinformation.

00:57:20.050 --> 00:57:22.710
Right. But by no means are the treasurers not

00:57:22.710 --> 00:57:24.809
doing a good job and they shouldn't be attacked

00:57:24.809 --> 00:57:28.750
for coming in and raising more money. They should

00:57:28.750 --> 00:57:31.809
be celebrated. But I think that's some of the

00:57:31.809 --> 00:57:35.369
culture we're fighting is they get accused of

00:57:35.369 --> 00:57:37.329
underperforming when it's like, no, these are

00:57:37.329 --> 00:57:39.289
just new tools that weren't on the market before.

00:57:40.030 --> 00:57:43.849
If I think back to how long I spent trying to

00:57:43.849 --> 00:57:48.260
come up with. different return on investments,

00:57:48.539 --> 00:57:52.659
calculating all of that out and now seeing what

00:57:52.659 --> 00:57:56.239
I can do with just the click of a button. It's

00:57:56.239 --> 00:57:59.340
incredible. And might as well take advantage

00:57:59.340 --> 00:58:02.239
of that to save your taxpayer some money and

00:58:02.239 --> 00:58:05.260
generate some additional income for your county.

00:58:05.420 --> 00:58:08.019
And so just as we wrap up, I think the whole

00:58:08.019 --> 00:58:12.280
philosophy of NACO and the Washington State Association

00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:15.929
of Counties is... How can we be a strong advocate

00:58:15.929 --> 00:58:20.150
on the policy side? But how can we also enhance

00:58:20.150 --> 00:58:23.190
the tools for counties to stretch taxpayer dollars

00:58:23.190 --> 00:58:27.789
and to make better use of our time? As I mentioned

00:58:27.789 --> 00:58:30.849
earlier, when I talk to county managers and ask

00:58:30.849 --> 00:58:34.309
them about their top concerns, you expect to

00:58:34.309 --> 00:58:37.409
hear the political environment and the divisiveness

00:58:37.409 --> 00:58:40.070
in the country. The number one answer I always

00:58:40.070 --> 00:58:43.949
get is workforce. Workforce, workforce, workforce,

00:58:44.010 --> 00:58:47.550
understaffed, got really good staff, but it's

00:58:47.550 --> 00:58:50.730
hard to retain. And so the more we can help raise

00:58:50.730 --> 00:58:54.309
money off of existing dollars, the more we can

00:58:54.309 --> 00:58:57.389
save time and the more we can round out workforce

00:58:57.389 --> 00:59:00.690
benefits. We know we can't always pay more, but

00:59:00.690 --> 00:59:02.690
if we can have better benefits and other things,

00:59:02.849 --> 00:59:06.510
that's what we want to do. Absolutely. Well,

00:59:06.570 --> 00:59:09.369
that's a great place to leave it. I really appreciate

00:59:09.369 --> 00:59:13.360
being here. I love, you know, the. the philosophy

00:59:13.360 --> 00:59:16.079
that NACO and you have about, you know, really

00:59:16.079 --> 00:59:18.679
that we're better together, you know, and that's

00:59:18.679 --> 00:59:22.239
what we try to do here at WSAC. So thank you

00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:26.400
for all your advocacy work and all your efforts

00:59:26.400 --> 00:59:29.360
to improve county government. I think it's appreciated

00:59:29.360 --> 00:59:32.000
by our members and I encourage everyone to get

00:59:32.000 --> 00:59:35.440
engaged because there's more than enough opportunities

00:59:35.440 --> 00:59:39.650
for you to. jump in and help out. Yeah. And just

00:59:39.650 --> 00:59:41.429
I'll end too. We didn't really get a chance to

00:59:41.429 --> 00:59:44.630
talk about it, but Wasiak, you and your counties

00:59:44.630 --> 00:59:47.070
were really also instrumental in us launching

00:59:47.070 --> 00:59:49.510
this National Center for Public Lands Counties.

00:59:49.550 --> 00:59:53.409
Yeah. Help those counties really build the research,

00:59:53.570 --> 00:59:57.570
the data to help with advocacy and storytelling

00:59:57.570 --> 01:00:01.510
of when you're a county that has this huge landowner

01:00:01.510 --> 01:00:03.670
called the federal government within your boundaries,

01:00:03.849 --> 01:00:07.440
it adds a lot of complications. It also adds

01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:10.960
some opportunity if done right. And we really

01:00:10.960 --> 01:00:13.159
want to help those counties as well. It's really

01:00:13.159 --> 01:00:15.719
in the fabric of NACO. Yeah, absolutely. And

01:00:15.719 --> 01:00:18.519
if you're particularly interested in public lands

01:00:18.519 --> 01:00:22.119
issues, I encourage you to check out the Western

01:00:22.119 --> 01:00:26.000
Interstate Region, WIR, which is, you know, it

01:00:26.000 --> 01:00:28.820
deals with all things that are of interest to

01:00:28.820 --> 01:00:31.900
Western states. But they've really taken a deep

01:00:31.900 --> 01:00:33.800
dive into the public lands issues and led the

01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:36.739
charge on. on that initiative. So great way to

01:00:36.739 --> 01:00:39.059
get engaged. All right. Well, thanks again, Matt.

01:00:39.300 --> 01:00:41.579
Thank you. Look forward to talking to you in

01:00:41.579 --> 01:00:46.840
the future. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to

01:00:46.840 --> 01:00:49.059
County Connection. Stay in the loop by subscribing

01:00:49.059 --> 01:00:51.579
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01:00:51.579 --> 01:00:54.199
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