the rats that were the size of cats, like that
was not that unusual. They would get that big.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, bro. That's crazy.
Yeah. So the rat was their mentor or something,
right? Yeah. Yeah. Trying to remember my Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles. That was the 80s. That
was, yeah. Well, there's been reboots since then.
And not, clearly not as successful. Don't put
this on the podcast, Paul. Don't use any of this,
Mitch. Welcome to County Connection, the official
podcast of the Washington State Association of
Counties, where we dive into the legislative
issues shaping the future of our communities.
From budgets to public safety, infrastructure
to elections, we'll break down what's happening
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the Evergreen State. Stay informed, stay engaged,
and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's
39 counties. Welcome, everybody, to the County
Connection, the official podcast of the Washington
State Association of Counties. We're back here
in the studio. It is, I think it's Thursday,
actually. Not bad weather outside, and I'm hanging
out this morning with Sean Swope, the Honorable
Commissioner Sean Swope from Lewis County. Sean,
good to see you. Does it make you a little nervous
when people call, or does it feel a little weird
when people call you the honorable commissioner?
Yeah, I really like the name Sean. It's really
good. You weren't one of those kids who said,
hey, mom, dad, why did you name me this? I would
have preferred Bill or Tommy or something like
that. Well, they did spell my name S -E -A -N,
and so teachers early on called me Scene Swoop.
Oh, you're kidding me. Oh, no, serious. In the
80s? Back in the 80s in elementary school, they
would call me. We'd get a substitute teacher,
and I'm just waiting for it. Here we go. For
a male. Scene swoop. For a male, S -E -A -N is
a very common spelling for the name Sean. Now
it is, yes. I was a child of the 80s and 90s.
It was back then, too. Obviously, they didn't
get the memo in Texas because it was always seeing
swoop. And the reason why it's spelled S -E -A
-N is my dad's name is John. And it's Irish for
John. Oh, I did not know that. Oh, that's cool.
So S -E -A -N is actually the Irish version of
John. Yeah, well, it... It means the same thing.
So the meaning behind the name is John. Okay.
Anyways, that's how it was told to me why they
spelled it that way instead of S -H -A -W -N.
Well, I'm never going to call you Commissioner
Scene Swoop. That would be hilarious. Or Swope.
Swope. What happened? Scene Swoop. As if there's
two O's in my name. Commissioner. Sean Swope
from Lewis County. You made the drive up today
all the way from Chehalis. Centro, yeah. Oh,
you were in Centro. I never even went to Chehalis
today. You never even went to the courthouse
today. I had other meetings. We won't tell anybody
that. You know, I grew up in Tenino. Do you know
that? Yeah. And Wayne's your cousin, right? No.
Not everybody in Tenino are cousins. Very funny.
No, I grew up in Tenino, which, of course, is
South Thurston County. For folks who are on the
podcast and don't know where Tenino is, it's
just south of here, about 20 minutes. And we
actually spent more time in Lewis County than
we did, like, in the Olympia area. We would almost
always go to Centralia Chehalis. We went to church
there. We went shopping there. And I remember
as a kid going to the Fourth of July festivities
down there. And the parking lots around the fairgrounds
were just a war zone back then. It was like chaos.
It was total anarchy around fireworks. Is it
still like that now? It's still like that. You
know what's even better? Last night, I went to
the Chehalis tribe with Dustin. Kletush invited
us to have this firework show. It was about a
five -minute firework show. I saw you post, actually,
on that. And literally. 30 minute finale yeah
like not exaggerating 30 minutes of just complete
chaos and pandemonium i mean my kids were like
it's a finale it's a finale nope there's no no
no and it was it was awesome it's the best firework
show oh i've ever been to yeah and when we go
do the county one which is great highly professional
yeah do they put it to music and everything Not
that professional. We're still... Hey, I'm sorry.
Is this Disneyland? Hey, we used to do that in
Kittitas County. That's all I'm saying. Whoa.
Well, actually, yeah. I would encourage everyone
to stay in their cars, turn on their radio, their
favorite song, and you'll have your fireworks
to music. That's cheating. Not exactly what I
meant, but a good way to handle it. Well, Commissioner
Swope, this is your first time on the podcast,
but this is not your first podcast. Not my first
podcast. And I know you're on the radio quite
a bit over at KELA. Shout out to KELA. Do they
still do Hall's Best Buys? I don't think so.
But let's talk about it. That is a hot show.
Is it? Yeah, it's Fastest 30 Minutes in Radio.
Yeah, cool. Well, I remember that when I was
a kid, but we're not here to talk about that
today. But we do want to hear about what's going
on down there in Lewis County. Specifically,
I know you guys have been working on a couple
of different projects, and I want to get into
some of them today, mostly around economic development.
But are there any new hot off the presses stuff
that you want to mention before we kind of get
started? Well, I do know that the Portis and
Treya right now, we've got a major development
that's going in. Oh, what's that? LPC. distribution
centers. There's some mega distribution centers
that are planning on coming out there. You guys
have had quite a few distribution centers. We
do. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it makes sense.
We're halfway between Portland and Seattle. It's
good land, good on off. We need better infrastructure
for truck traffic, which is something that I'm
actually going to work with Wayne from Thurston
County and the chairman from the Chehalis tribe.
to get a new exit for truck traffic. So it's
not in our main corridors right now. Yeah. Because
if we're going to continue to get some of this
type of economic development, we need to make
sure that our truck traffic is got the proper
infrastructure. And right now it doesn't. How
fast has Lewis County been growing over the last
couple of years? I would say. And in the last
four to five years, it's compounding. And now
that we got the Winco that's out there in the
Centralia Station. The new grocery store. Yes.
We continually hear new stores that are coming.
And I know that there are some more announcements
of some really good stores in that area that
will be there. I know that they've announced
Chick -fil -A and Chipotle are going into that
area, which I'm a huge fan of both. Chick -fil
-A and Chipotle. If only we could get a Cane's
in there. What is that? In the South, it's chicken
fingers. It's just more of a Southern feel. It's
kind of like Chick -fil -A a little bit, but
Cane's is more your Louisiana -type feel. Okay,
never heard of it, but I'll take your word for
it. So it's interesting that you talk about...
a lot of the the economic development that's
occurring in the county um because that's what
i really wanted to focus on today and specifically
what i'm trying to do during this interim period
between legislative sessions is talk about issues
that we didn't really get a chance to talk about
during the legislative session. We really focus
on kind of what's happening with different bills,
what's happening with policy issues, what might
be happening with the budget. But I wanted to
focus more on just kind of what's happening in
some of our counties. And there's a couple of
things that are really intriguing to me about
Lewis County, which is obviously just south of
here. And that's, you know, number one, you guys
have a lot of interest. involvement from the
county commissioners in economic development.
And I know a lot of counties talk about that.
There's a lot of lip service to economic development,
but I think a lot of our members really struggle
on understanding their role in economic development.
And some of our communities, especially the more
rural ones that are not in the Puget Sound region
and not on the I -5 corridor in particular, and
maybe not even near. major interstate really
struggle with attracting economic development.
So I want to talk about that a little bit. But
I also want to focus on a pretty unique kind
of facet of that in Lewis County, which is, you
know, Lewis County is quietly kind of this, like
energy hub in Washington State, you have been
for a really long time with the TransAlta facility.
And you're really, you know, creatively trying
to find ways to repurpose that facility, we'll
get into it a little bit. But I don't think most
people would put Lewis County on the map when
they think about energy development in Washington.
And TransAlta is not the only thing you've got
going on. And you've worked on some things and
you've failed at a couple of things, but you've
been successful at a couple of other things too
around energy. And I thought maybe we could chat
about that a little bit today. Why don't you
start by just kind of telling people what TransAlta
is and why it's significant both to them and
to you? So TransAlta was at one point our highest
economic producer for the county, and especially
for Centralia and our junior taxing districts.
And then when the big announcement came from...
So just to be clear, TransAlta is an energy...
It's actually an electrical plant. Yes, it's
an electrical coal fire. Yeah, coal plant, very
clean. They do a great job. But when we got the
announcement that it was going to close in 2006,
it really devastated because that's when they
turned part of it off and the devaluation of
the plant began. And it dropped half of its evaluation,
a lot of jobs that were lost. It was the number
one taxpayer in the county. It was. We had all
of our eggs in one basket. So that must have
hurt. It is. Still today, it hurts. Our high
school, our school in Centralia is 100 % free
and reduced lunches or just free lunch, not reduced
free because over 70 % of the families qualify
for it. In Centralia? In Centralia. That's shocking
to me. It is very shocking. Well, we've never
really until lately where we're starting to see
more. opportunities for jobs. But when you start
thinking about what, you know, distribution centers,
warehouses, manufacturing. Those didn't replace
the jobs that were out at TransAlta because you
got paid a really good wage out there. When I
was a kid, I knew people that worked out there,
truck drivers and coal miners and plant operators.
All my friends, their parents worked out there.
My Little League team was sponsored by. It wasn't
TransAlta at the time. It was like WIDCO or something
like that back then. And my Little League team
was sponsored by them for years and years and
years. And even my neighbor, even my next -door
neighbor was one of them. major plant operators
out there and that just went away like almost
overnight yeah well it did it was overnight and
then you had this mass exodus and then what came
in to fill the void you know there were no real
good jobs in the area and so there was more of
a depression type era and you drive through downtown
centralia you might have a few antique shops
but it was pretty empty and dead and yeah i remember
those days it was really sad because i had actually
left in 2002 down to vancouver and when i came
back around 2008 It was a total different place.
I just couldn't believe what had happened. I
think slowly but surely we're finally getting
out of it. But now we're facing the looming closure
of the plant here at the end of 2025. Yeah, it
actually has a final shutdown date of December
31st of this year. Yeah, 1159. Yeah. And that's
the last boiler. So that's going to come offline.
And right now they're no longer digging coal
out there like they used to. No, they ship it
in from Wyoming. They ship it in, right. So all
that's going to stop. So all that rail traffic
is going to stop. All of the production of the
facility is going to stop. It's going to go offline.
So how many jobs are still left out there? I
would probably say less than 50, maybe 30. And
then, you know, gradually they've been. letting
more and more people go and people but the other
great thing is TransAlta has been doing a good
job on providing if they want to go back to school
to learn a new trade or something they've they've
put money aside to help re -educate them to get
them back into the workforce of in some sort
we do have first mode that's out there that's
testing mining equipment for hydrogen or electric
Yeah, they do like a diesel conversion, right?
Right. For heavy equipment. I was looking them
up, I think yesterday or today, just kind of
doing a little research for this. Yeah. Are they
a big employer out on the site? No, not really.
Not really. But I will tell you the best thing
that happened to Washington was the transition
between Inslee and Ferguson. Because Inslee had
this approach. And this is ultimately because
we were looking to put a hydrogen plant out there.
We were awarded a billion dollars to our Centroia
hub. Yeah, that was just a couple of years ago,
right? Wasn't that federal money? It was federal
money. And I think one out of six different hydrogen
hubs. Was TransAlta part of that future plan
for the facility? No, I think... So very interesting.
When I first was elected as county commissioner,
in the first two months, we received this letter
from TransAlta or WDFW, where TransAlta was going
to give the land. I remember I got a phone call
about that. To WDFW. And that was the first time
I went on the radio. And they asked, so what's
going on in Lewis County? Well, let me tell you.
TransAlta is leaving, giving us the big middle
finger, going to give all of our land to WDFW,
who doesn't manage our land very well and just
kind of torpedoed the whole thing. Yeah, I remember
all that. Had to reel my mouth back in. Well,
you know, new county commissioners, big radio
microphone. It was my rookie card, okay? But
what it did do, though, is it forced everyone
to the table. That deal was... put aside. And
then through the course of, you know, the next
few years with the hydrogen piece, Transultus
is staying and they're starting to look at different
things. And now even though the hydrogen thing
fell apart because we could not get the price
point we needed to get hydrogen to where it made
fiscal sense for a private company to come do
that. Yeah. Even with, you know, a billion dollar.
infusion in federal money yeah into the project
the problem was is our past governor governor
inslee wanted 100 green energy producing green
energy and you couldn't have it braided and he
also deemed it that hydro electricity was not
green energy right and so that really killed
the project but now even though i mean it's the
greenest of the green it's the greenest of the
green right there's no question there's no emissions
associated and we we even had windmills out there
and they were looking to put in a solar plant
but we just they couldn't pencil it out and so
forest you ended up just leaving all together
and i think they abandoned several of their other
projects and they just went back to australia
which is fine um So this was an Australian company
that was coming in and actually looking at the
site that you were partnering with. Former state
representative Richard DeBolt was part of that
project as well. I feel like we're getting a
little bit ahead of ourselves, and I just want
to explain a couple of things to the listener
who may not be familiar with this site. So what's
interesting about TransAlta is it's operated
for decades in Centralia, and it was a huge,
big part of the economy. The state, with its...
policies around greenhouse gas emission reductions
really targeted it as the only coal -fired facility
remaining in Washington state for shutdown. And
there was a settlement in 2011, or there was
a settlement in 2010, and then there was an actual
bill, I think some legislation in 2011, that
kind of laid out the timeframe for it and the
terms for it to decommission, which, as you mentioned,
ends this year. And since then, you guys have
really worked on all kinds of different ideas.
What's interesting about the fish and wildlife
piece that happened when you were just brand
new as a county commissioner several years ago
was that site is We should probably tell people
it's actually kind of remote in Lewis County.
It's not near an urban center at all. It's very
unusual. You actually go down this urban road.
You either cut off at the park, at Schaefer Park,
right, and go over the railroad tracks if you
know Lewis County. Good memory. Or you come from
the backside of Bucoda, which is in South Thurston
County, right, and you follow that road around,
and it's a big, windy kind of country road, and
you come around a corner. Boom. It's right there.
There's this huge facility and you just go, what?
is going on here and it almost looks like a nuclear
facility right it looks like this weird kind
of contraption and you know back in the day there
was a coal mine out there too it was a plaster
mine which means they're scraping it off the
surface rather than you know tunneling underground
and there were these huge trucks with tires the
size of you know taller than most men right oh
yeah unless you're like 20 foot tall right driving
you know and people driving these trucks back
and forth and burning coal but the other interesting
piece to it is there's a lot of recreational
land out there too and a lot of wetlands out
there there's a big elk herd out there so from
a habitat perspective it's also in a recreation
perspective it's also got some attractiveness
and then the other piece that was key to the
green hydrogen that you also didn't mention was
the reservoir yes there's a skook dam yeah the
skookum chuck dam which is a which is actually
a pretty good -sized reservoir that... And it
generates one kilowatt of power too. Yeah, and
I didn't know that until recently. I didn't know
that they actually generated... off of that reservoir.
But they used that water, obviously, to create
the steam, right, that would turn the turbines.
So they burn the coal, boil the water, create
the steam, turn the turbines, create the electricity.
And so that's what made it attractive to green
hydrogen, right? So explain what green hydrogen
is. Green hydrogen is, well, I mean... It's basically
a water molecule that's being separated, and
it's really not for electricity. It's for battery
storage. So you're having to take electricity,
and you're using a lot of electricity to convert
it to battery storage type of deal. And just
to even back up a little further, while you're
talking about it being a remote area, the other
thing that I want people to understand that it's
an industrial land, it's zoned as industrial.
industrial land well and it's this by the way
all predates gma right right long before the
gma but it's also a federal opportunity zone
so there's some incentives that you get from
the federal government as well and the highest
best use because of all the infrastructure all
the key pieces is for power production and then
To talk about the WDFW part, it's not necessarily
that WDFW would manage the lands. It's what they
were wanting to do with the lands where they
wanted to introduce endangered species that were
not native to that land. Oh, interesting. I think
there was like four different species that they
wanted to put there. And just knowing how endangered
areas, lands are. What business is going to want
to relocate out there when you have endangered
species and some of the regulations? It could
create some challenges. I mean, why go there
when you could go here and you don't even have
to deal with endangered species? Well, it's just
such an interesting and unique site, I think,
because it predates GMA. You've got a major power
production facility out there. You've got a huge
water right associated with it. Excuse me. You've
got all kinds of interest around it from a variety
of different perspectives. And, you know, in
today's world, to put an industrial site with
that kind of infrastructure in that location
would be so cost -friendly. And we have rail.
Yeah, right. You've got rail going right to it.
I mean, it's like a... It's like a unicorn. Right.
It's a dream. Right. But also, it's been a huge
challenge for you guys to try to figure out,
okay, what's next? So you tried the green hydrogen
route. It would seem like all of the nuggets
were dropping from the sky at the right place
at the right time in the right site. So exciting
at the time. Super exciting. blows up you know
fails for a variety of different reasons so what's
next for that site i mean you guys you know there's
a lot of competing interests you got one you
mentioned you had first mode out there right
now and they are um they convert diesel to other
types of hydrogen or battery, clean fuels for
heavy equipment. Right. And so they're kind of
doing some, some work out there with their group,
but you mentioned that's not a huge employer.
So what's next? So I, what I really hope in what
I, you know, just trying to read the room on
different conversations is potentially, you know,
because of, you know, having Ferguson as the
governor and a little bit more compromise on
things because if we just keep turning stuff
off and never turning anything on, that's only
going to make... From an energy point of view.
Right, from an energy perspective, then that's
going to hurt our grid. Well, we know we need
twice as much, right? For sure. In the next 20
years as we have today. I think it's actually
more than that because you have all the data
centers, you have AI, you have Bitcoin, you have
all these things that are just sucking up energy.
And we don't have that coming online to produce
the amount of energy that these types of resources
need. The other interesting thing that is out
there in Senator Braun, John Braun, for the 20th,
help get funding to put a natural gas plant out
there at TransAlta. Okay, you just broke a rule.
I gave an acronym, didn't I? Small Modular Reactor.
It's a basically, yeah, it's nuclear, basically.
It's the same thing that they put on the submarines.
Small, containable. The cleanest energy that
you can produce. And it's basically free and
just goes on and on and on and on. For sure.
I mean, it's not free then. It's not free. Yeah,
it's going to cost some money. But once it's
operational, it's the lowest cost power that
you can find. Right. But potentially, they could
drag a line over the road. I mean, obviously
there's some infrastructure things that you would
have to do and convert that coal fire plant to
a natural gas plant. Continue that with the understanding
that we're going to add other elements with the
end game being that we'll get something like
the nuclear. out there at the plant to produce
power. That's going to be a power production
site. You have all the infrastructure, you have
all the tie lines that are there, the rail, everything
you need. And then from that, I think we're going
to get off takers for the AI plants, for server
farms, potentially Bitcoin that are... high energy
consumers right there on the same site yeah so
lewis county still is a big natural resource
-based economy, right? Lots of farmers. You're
one of the few places that still has a lot of
dairies. Right. Although not as many as you used
to. Tomorrow at 10 .30, I'm picking up from a
local farmer my whole milk that they bring in
to town. All right, good for you. But I know
you've still got a lot of dairies out there.
You've got a lot of other farmers out there,
row crops. You've got a lot of timber still.
Timber's still big. Big. Big industry in Lewis
County. Seems to me, and this has been talked
about in the past. And we also have this thing
called the fake owl, the spotted owl. That's
never been found out there. All right. We're
not going to talk about the owl. But it seems
to me that. You know, with all of that going
on, biomass could be a potential as well. And
that's been talked about at this site in the
past. But, you know, I haven't heard that talked
about with regard to this site for probably 20
years. Everything else that's been talked about
has now been kind of green hydrogen and other
options like that. You know, it seems like the
biomass discussions have kind of gone away. It
hasn't. Oh, it hasn't? It has not gone away out
there. That is something that is... very likely
to be on the table to go out there as well. Mind
you, we have a site, the IPAT parcel, that we've
invested over $10 million that is ready right
now for some type of energy producer or offtaker
to come out to the TransAlta site to work in
conjunction with TransAlta and what they're doing.
So you mentioned that Senator Braun, was instrumental
in getting a... You said a... Funding. Natural
gas plant. Funding for a natural gas plant. Is
the natural gas plant operational? Yes. Well,
it still has natural gas flowing to it. I'm not
sure as to what it's actually being used for
currently. Okay. But I do know that there...
And these are all my thoughts. This is nothing
where I'm... you know, what I'm hoping happens.
Don't worry, nobody listens to this podcast.
No, people do. And I want to make sure that people
understand that this is not TransAlta's plans,
that this is not someone else's plans. This is
just what I'm hoping happens in the area. And
all my comments are... like reserved for myself.
But anyway, so... Disclaimer. These comments
are Commissioner Swope's and Commissioner Swope's
alone. Let's see. Lewis County and the state
legislature do not endorse or deny anything that
Commissioner Swope is saying on this podcast.
Okay, take it away, Commissioner. All right.
So I really strongly feel that potentially that
they'll take that natural gas over to that plant,
turn it back on, and then... So there's a line
out there, but there's not really... No one's
basically running a natural gas plant currently.
You have everything there. Okay. That's interesting
because I thought you said there was a plant
operating. I thought, well, wait a minute. That
doesn't meet the new standards for clean energy
under CETA. Of course, breaking my own rules,
CETA is the Clean Energy Transformation Act that
was passed a few years ago in Washington that
mandates that basically all of the energy produced
and sold here has to be... considered clean energy
by a date certain. I think it's 2045. What about
natural is not clean? Well, they don't because
natural gas, of course, emits greenhouse gas
emissions when it's burned. They consider that
not clean, unlike things like solar, wind, geothermal,
et cetera. But I think when you start braiding
some of these things together, so when you have
solar, you have your wind, and then you use natural
gas for an interim period to ensure, Well, it's
definitely more reliable, right? You can turn
it on and turn it off just like hydro. Without
question. Yeah. And it could even be a peaker
plant, which would, in my opinion, would just
stay on all the time because we need more power.
But for a biomass plant, you have to have it.
I mean, because biomass works a lot like coal.
Instead of burning coal, you're burning... you
know, essentially residual wood products, right?
Things that you're not using in another way.
These are, you know, the leftover limbs and other
things or residue leftover from even crop yields,
et cetera. You burn those that boil the water
that create the steam that turns the turbines.
you know, creates electricity. It's the same
concept, right? So you would still need that
infrastructure out there regardless. Right, and
so that's why I say the natural gas is the short
term because it's going to take three to five
years to get something else online. And so if
we can get an agreement that for the interim
period, we're going to run natural gas, and then
five years from now, we're going to either have
SMRs, nuclear, or biomass or another type of
energy producer out there which could be hydrogen
i think transalta is going to be the main player
in the game i think they're here to stay i don't
think they're going anywhere and just otherwise
i think you would have already seen a major sale
taking place on that plants. I think they would
have liquidated things, but they have not. And
I think they're doubling down and they want to
stay in Centralia. And they want to make sure
that that plant continues to produce energy.
Well, they're certainly rebranding themselves
as a clean energy producer. If you go to their
website, you know, they do show the coal plant
on there, but they show it in transition. And
then they're highlighting the hydrogen, not hydrogen,
the hydroelectric power at the Skookumchuck Dam
that we mentioned, the reservoir. And they own
the wind facility as well? They do. Okay. Which
is above the reservoir. essentially on the hillsides,
it's... It's one of the few wind facilities in
Washington that's actually kind of hard to see.
You have to be in the right place at the right
elevation to see it. If you're just in Centralia
or Chehalis, you actually don't see it at all.
Yeah, well, the people in Centralia see it and
they let me know about it. Oh, do they? We need
to get those lights off at night. Well, the problem
is the planes can't see them at night. Well,
the new technology is that when a plane enters
a certain radius, they just need to take that
technology, put it on, and then... Hopefully
we'll be golden. So in Kittitas County, we used
to get a lot of calls, as you can imagine, about
the wind turbines as well, especially when the
new ones came up. The bird killers. Yeah, among
other things. But where I was kind of going with
this was, or the next thing I thought maybe we
could talk about is, you said TransAlta's going
to stay. They're kind of rebranding their entire
operation, not just in Washington, but nationally.
When you listen to their board meetings. They
are staying. Which is great news for Lewis County.
100%. And we've talked about this unique site,
this kind of unicorn of a site, et cetera, and
some of the challenges associated with redevelopment,
but also kind of the things that you'd like to
see. What is the county actually doing? What
is the county's role? What are you doing to kind
of move this thing along and create? On the ground,
this vision that you actually have for economic
development, for redevelopment at that site,
what tools are you guys actually employing? Permitting,
policy, getting ready for whatever changes that
they're going to want to be made, getting in
the room with them. Do they actually come to
you and say, hey, here's what we're thinking,
but we need you to change something, and you
guys kind of look? Is that how that's going,
or are you going to them? We're having conversations
with them to where we're meeting with them and
talking about potential possibilities that could
happen and working, figuring out what in our
code could be barriers or roadblocks because
we want to be able to permit and plan it. Pieces
of it will have to go to FSEC, which stands for?
The Energy Facility Site Evaluation Council.
Right. But as much as we can have a say in the
permitting and the planning process, we want
to do it. We're actually doing a master site
plan with it right now. So you're doing a master
site plan for that TransAlta site. Correct. Do
you own that land out there, or does TransAlta
own it? TransAlta owns it. Okay, but you're doing
kind of the planning work around it. Yes. We
own IPAT, though. tell me what that ipad is a
piece during the negotiations they gave us this
parcel we actually have three parcels to where
we could develop and bring some type of industry
out there okay but you really have to keep the
lights on in order to get someone to come out
there to be an offtaker of the power producing
energy so we have site one to where we've invested
millions of dollars it's I don't know, like 40,
50 acres. Maybe that's too big. But it's huge
and it's ready for some type of off -taker or
producer. So you guys have already put some infrastructure
in there. 100%. So you took all the risk. Yes.
As the county, you put the infrastructure in.
You're hoping that someone will be able to say,
okay. Someone's going to use it. This is attractive
to me because it's already ready for me. It's
high interest. when you say that the hydrogen
piece, it blew up and failed. It actually helped
us though, because it put us back on the map
and everyone's like, Oh, look at that site. And
so now there's interest. And I know that the
economic, um, the EA, I don't, yeah, the EA,
the economic alliance. Okay. Where Richard DeBolt
is. So this is a local organization, local organization,
um, the EDC. Economic Development Council or
something like that? Right, but they changed
their name to the Economic Alliance, so the EA.
They are continuing... Every county has an organization
like that. Exactly. And so they're constantly
looking for... potential suitors to come out
there and they're taking phone calls on a weekly
basis multiple and are they keeping you guys
informed as to what they're doing absolutely
and so you're meeting with this economic alliance
um they're they're meeting directly with the
board or do you guys have someone assigned to
this okay yeah and then are you meeting with
transalta representatives as well as far as you
know kind of keeping up to speed with what's
going on i have conversations i have At least
once a month or twice a month, three times a
month. Is that something that you're doing? Or
are they doing it more formally with the board
themselves? Something I'm doing. It's my district.
And so we're in communication. And they know
how passionate I am about making sure that that
area is successful. And then you're keeping your
seatmates kind of in the loop. Absolutely. Yeah.
Okay. So you're taking a more active role on
the ground. 100%. And I think from... You know,
you asked the question, what are we doing? You
know, relationship building is really important
and making sure that you have good relationships
with your port, with your city council, with
the other government agencies or other key stakeholders
that will hopefully have a positive influence
in that area to bring business in. Because the
last thing a major business wants to do is to
come into chaos. Sure. Right. They want to know
that everyone's on board with what is taking
place. out there yeah you know business needs
predictable environment absolutely they need
they need to be able to have real consistency
they want predictability they don't want uncertainty
because why risk money in an uncertain place
you know you might as well go to the casino if
you want to do that and I would probably say
the other relationship the other thing that we're
doing is working with our lobbyists okay we have
Josh Weiss he's our lobbyist Troy Nichols Yeah,
this podcast sponsored by Wiesen Associates.
Yeah. But, you know, working with their relationships
to ensure that we're moving things forward in
a right way, they're a very key part of that
component as well. So you mentioned relationship
building. I can't agree with you more, right?
Relationship building is super important. The
problem with relationship building sometimes
in political environments is, you know, elected
officials have a shelf life at some point, right?
And the last thing we all, you know, you've been
a county commissioner. This is your fifth year.
You know, you're young for a county commissioner.
I'm not going to say how old you are because
you're not. that young um but you know by I just
had my 45th birthday hey see you just gave it
up July 1st the greatest day of the year but
you know for for if you look at the average age
of a county commissioner probably across the
state you're on the younger side for sure so
your shelf life is you know maybe a little bit
longer I don't know how long you want to serve
you know everyone has uh you know I still I still
have young kids yeah yeah I want to spend a lot
of time with my kids. Do your kids like it that
you're a county commissioner? They love it around
fair season. My kids loved it too until they
hit teenage years and went to high school, and
then it was a different story. My youngest is
11, so we haven't hit that spot yet. You'll be
there in a few years. Pretty soon you'll be like,
I want to be in the picture. I don't want to
be in the parade. It's so embarrassing. Anyways,
I digress. But you've got maybe a little longer
runway than some county commissioners, but at
some point, You're not going to be a county commissioner
anymore. And TransAlta or others, they're planning
decades out. So what are you doing to make sure
that the next person that comes along doesn't
unwind all of this stuff? How are you making
sure that what you're trying to put in place
today is sustainable for... You know, that predictable
multi -decade kind of business window that an
investor is actually looking at. Well, I think
that comes to making different code changes and
policy changes that someone would have to unwind.
But that's also where you're making sure that
it's a very transparent process. And so you want
the citizens to be on board with that. And typically
the citizens are going to vote for. things that
are going to add value to their life and so if
they can see this as something that is being
valuable to their livelihood and that it's enriching
them and their family they're going to continue
down that road but once you start doing things
that are secretive hiding things not communicating
well that's where people really start to turn
and so that's where just making sure that you're
communicating also with the general public, that
this is something that is good and they see the
benefit and they see the enrichment of our community.
You know, they will vote someone that will continue
us down that road. Well, I think that long -term
planning that you talked about really helps to
actually kind of mapping it out and putting it
on paper. And especially, you know, keeping your
colleagues your seat mates you know in the loop
and if they're supportive that really helps it's
kind of like once you put that stake in the ground
that everybody agrees to the you know what stake
it is what location it is what the stake looks
like all that it's pretty hard to unravel that
but you have to get all those parties together
right and then the next person puts the next
stake and the next person puts the next stake
and and i think that's kind of what you're talking
about right Yeah. And you can only hope too,
right? Maybe, maybe, maybe it does happen to
where someone comes in and they try to change
everything. And we want to have little house
on the Prairie, another reference to the house
on the Prairie. And we just want everything to
be small and we don't want growth and we do everything
we can to, to chop growth off. Well, you know,
that's why we have elections. Right. Right. People
get to choose. And, you know, once you're no
longer part of that leadership, you know, you're
just back to casting your vote like everybody
else. And you got to kind of let that go. And
I will say just in the energy production piece
of it, when you're talking about elections, I
think one of the major benefits for Centralia
was when the new president came in and declared
that energy. production as a national emergency
that we need to produce more energy and that
we need to do things that are going to ramp things
up. And so I think just across the U S people
want to see more energy production and people
want to invest into that. And so that's helping
us hopefully to solve those issues, to bring
in some type of off taking company and working
with TransAlta, which is a Canadian country,
which is tough with our relationship right now.
And hopefully that works itself out because we
want to make sure that we're doing everything
we can to help TransAlta succeed. in this area
as well. And I know that we're going to have
to have help from our federal partners along
the way. Well, we all know Canada is a country,
but you meant a Canadian company, right? Canadian
company. Yes. Yes. Well, let's, let's, you know,
we've talked a lot about TransAlta and I don't
want to, you know, extend the podcast too far,
but I do want to touch on another subject that
you kind of hit on it, just energy production
in general and, and kind of Lewis County's role
in that. You guys have quietly. like almost stealthily
become a player in the energy production marketplace.
I mean, you always had TransAlta, right? But,
you know, when the announcement came out that
that thing was going to close, you know, you
already talked about the economic impacts and
the devastation. But, you know, since then, it's
still online. It's going to produce until December
31st of this year. They've built the wind turbine
site that's up there, the wind farm site, which
is actually fairly good sized. I don't know how
many kilowatts it produces or megawatts it produces.
I'm sure it's megawatts. And they spend pretty
much around the clock. Yeah. Well, it's a windy
side up there. Right. For sure. You mentioned
there's the hydroelectric facility on the Skookumchoke
Dam. You also got some funding recently to develop
a green hydrogen. facility at the Port of Chehalis
to, I think, change all the transit buses in
Lewis County from diesel fuel to hydrogen fuel.
And I know there's been talk about some other
things. What else is going on in Lewis County
around energy right now? Just touch on the hydrogen
piece of it real quick. A lot of credit has to
be given to a gentleman named Joe Clark, who's...
incredibly smart that has been able to work with
different entities to, to make this actually
happen. Is he the transit director down there?
He's the transit director, but he's so much more
than it. And you think of a transit director
and you think very one dimensional, this guy,
his brain. is going to go in a museum one day
the way that he's able to think through things
and make things happen he's actually moving out
of the transit director role now and going into
more of a hydrogen consultant type of position
to work on this aspect with the the port of chehalis
he also does a lot of things when it comes to
just development and getting taking this golf
course, the Milwaukee golf course and making
it a world renowned golf course with this new
housing. I mean, I've played there a few times.
I mean, it's a pretty easy golf course right
now, but it's going to be a tougher golf course
down the road, and it's going to be a beautiful
area. I'll tell you, every golf course is a tough
golf course for me. I'd rather throw the ball.
I used to actually play pretty decent. Then I
had children. It's all gone downhill from there.
But as far as energy production, I know that
we've put a lot of infrastructure in for. For
cars, for electric cars along the corridors.
Yeah, you have actually. There's quite a bit
more than there was before. But I would also
say to that credit, that's largely given to TransAlta
because they've funded a lot of these different
projects and have put money into these different
projects with the Cold Transition Board, where
they're allocating $55 million towards different
projects to green energy. Well, it's exciting
stuff that's going on down there. Like I said,
I was surprised to see kind of how quietly you
guys have really gotten involved, especially
when you think about Lewis County being. pretty
conservative, you know, as far as the, if you
want to get into the red and blue, it's definitely
one of the redder counties in Washington state,
especially, you know, that whole region in Southwest
Washington. But you guys are, you guys are making
a lot of progress and you're making investments
in a lot of really innovative stuff down there,
especially in the energy sector. I wouldn't be
surprised to see more and more happening down
there. And it sounds like you have a great partner.
You've got some great ideas and you certainly
have this really interesting unique site out
there that I think a lot of people would be envious
to have. And frankly, the GMA would prevent it
from happening in most places at this point.
Well, and to get an industrial site when you're
only allocated two, like you can only have so
many. Right. And then they gave us another industrial
zoning area. Yeah, pretty significant. And can
I just also say that the 20th? Our legislators
are highly effective. They help us move the ball
to where we can be successful in the area. Representative
Abarno, Representative Orcutt, and John Braun,
they... They are a powerhouse team that really
gets things done and they do a great job building
relationships across the aisle. Well, I hope
they're listening to this podcast. Well, I'm
hoping that they do, but I, but I, that is a
huge component to our success. And even with
them working with TransAlta, I mean, it was Braun
who helped TransAlta. to get the Senator Braun,
Senator Braun. Yeah. Yeah. Senator Braun. Well,
there's a lot of, uh, surprisingly enough, there's
a lot of brands out there that start with the
word Braun. Um, so I just want to make Northwest.
Yeah. Well, that'd be of course a local company
that most people don't know about, but, um, there's
other, there's others as well. So I just wanted
people to make sure that they understood you
were talking about Senator Braun. Yeah. Um, well,
it's been great having you. Commissioner Swope,
I almost called you seen, but I'm not going to
do that. But I just want you to know you've been
seen here today, Commissioner Swope. The warm
fuzzies. I've been working on that for like 20
minutes. I really appreciate it. How was I going
to pull that off? You mentioned that there's
the fireworks at the Chehalis Fairgrounds or
at the Lewis County Fairgrounds. Is it still
called the Southwest Washington Fair? Southwest
Washington Fair. And we're mandated to have,
in RCW, have a fair every year. The state needs
to do a better job in giving us money. Just kidding.
Just kidding. Well, everybody needs support for
their fairs, that's for sure. And that's always
an interesting, contentious issue. Hey, our fair
is by far. the best fair in the state of Washington.
Oh boy. You've just thrown down the gauntlet
on that one. Yes. That's what, Paul, that's what
we should do. Let's do an online poll. What do
you think? We should do an online poll, but you
should also rent a bus and bus us to all the
different fairs. That would take all summer.
i'm up i think it would start i think it starts
about now actually too yeah i think maybe kits
apps is starting to go pretty soon and uh when
does thurston county's it's in july as they have
one They do. Oh. Ouch. Wow. You hear that, Wayne?
You hear that, Wayne? Yeah, Commissioner Fournier.
He just got challenged. I think there's some
sort of TikTok video that might have to happen
between the Thurston County Fair and the Southwest
Washington Fair, some sort of competition. Final
word, I guess. I guess so. All right, Commissioner.
Well, thanks for joining us. It's great having
you on the podcast. Super interesting stuff going
on in Lewis County, and I hope it continues for
you. Thanks for tuning in to County Connection.
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