WEBVTT

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Is there anything that will humble a man more

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thoroughly and relentlessly and anything other?

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I mean, besides a wife. I mean, besides that,

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I mean, but then golf. But then I'd put golf

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there. I don't know. I hope your wife does. Oh,

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I think it's pretty safe. She's not listening

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to these podcasts. Welcome to County Connection,

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the official podcast of the Washington State

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Association of Counties, where we dive into the

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legislative issues shaping the future of our

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communities. From budgets to public safety, infrastructure

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to elections, we'll break down what's happening

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in Olympia and how it impacts counties from across

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the Evergreen State. Stay informed, stay engaged,

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and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's

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39 counties. Welcome back, everybody, to the

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County Connection podcast. I'm Paul Jewell, your

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host and government relations director for the

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Washington State Association of Counties. Back

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here in the studio, giving you some of the latest

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information, I guess, or maybe wrap up information

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on the legislative session. Session ended on

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April 27th. That was last Sunday, four days ago.

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And Brad, you've had four days to reflect. You've

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had four days to think about it. How'd the session

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go for you? You know, it ended on time. So for

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me, that was... That was a big win. Well, we

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weren't sure that was going to happen. I know.

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And my birthday was on the 28th. So, like, for

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me, it was like... Your birthday was the day

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after? Yeah. I didn't even know. Well, so, you

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know, what's funny about that is... Happy birthday,

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Brad. Thank you. But more often than not, during

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these long sessions, I've had signee dies on

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my birthday. Yeah, but you have. That April 28th

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date tends to just... So, you end up working

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on that day. I do, usually. So, this was like

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a funny little, like, ooh, hey. Which was weird

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because the session felt like it started a little

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later this year. Okay, what did you get for your

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birthday? Now that we know it was after, other

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than a session that ended on time. So this is

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funny because of what we were just bantering

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about. We went up to Topgolf. Oh, you did? We

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did, yeah. And just messed around at Topgolf.

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Well, that's fun. Yeah, it was fun. Just the

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kids. I was going to say, you have kids, right?

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Yeah, two girls and my wife and we just kind

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of... Yeah. Did they have a good time? They did.

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Yeah, it was great. You know, we like to do the

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little game thing, you know, the Angry Birds

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or whatever. Yeah, that's fun. It was pretty

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fun. And beat me regularly. I'm convinced. Deservedly

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so. Well, but I'm convinced that Topgolf is not

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designed. You know, you go up there trying to

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hit it seriously and then you look at it and

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if you're in a serious state of mind while you're

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trying to knock something down in a virtual Angry

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Bird world, right, you're not going to succeed.

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No. So the kids go up there. They just whack

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away. With the video game mentality and all of

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a sudden, yeah, are just. Yeah, so I just ate

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some buffalo wings. Speaking of being humbled

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and just let it all go. But, yeah, no, it was

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fun. It was a beautiful day. We got great weather.

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Yeah. It was a good weekend. We've had a couple

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of really good weeks here as far as weather -wise

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in Olympia. No real rain to speak of. Yeah, we're

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getting baked out, I think, though. Yeah, I think

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it's fall, spring. Yeah, and then junior area

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will return. And we'll just be stuck until the

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4th of July or whatever. Yeah, that could be.

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I guess we'll see. Well, geez, happy birthday.

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Well, thanks, yeah. You want to share how old

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you are? I'm 46. 46? 46, I know. I still got

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you by a few years. Yeah, at least. At least

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a few. Don't make it sound like it's that many.

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I'm just, you know, listen. You know, mine's

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coming up pretty soon. When's yours? I'm not

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telling you, but it's coming up soon. So I'm

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going to take another leap on you pretty soon,

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unfortunately. Well, that's all right. Happy

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birthday, and I'm glad that the session ended.

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And happy signing day to you. Yeah. Glad we're

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done. We had a good session. Happy signing day

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to us all, right? Yeah, no. In all seriousness,

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I think it was a remarkably good session. Yeah,

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I was going to ask you for kind of your gauge

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on it. Do you think things went well? I do. I

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mean, it was a hard session, I think, actually.

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You know, every single person has said that.

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Yeah, it was a... And I don't think it's just

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conjecture. No, no, there was something, there

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was a bit of a grind on this one. Yeah, you've

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been around for a while. Yeah, you've been doing

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this for a while. This is one of the more difficult

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ones that I can remember. It was. I mean, and

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I'm not, I don't know if I can put my finger

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on why. I'm not I'm not 100 percent sure why,

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because I don't feel like it was like, you know,

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that many more bills than normal or. In fact,

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I think it was maybe a little maybe a little

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less. Yeah, I mean, one thousand nine hundred.

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It was a challenging budget, but not a you know,

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I mean, so I don't know. It's unclear to me.

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It'll take a little time, I think, to sort of

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fully kind of get a sense of maybe why it felt

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so. so much more challenging than previous sessions.

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But I will say the reward was a lot of good work

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happened and we got a lot of good things done.

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And, you know, I think both in the areas that

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I was working on, but broadly as an association,

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I think we did really well this year. And, you

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know, it speaks to your leadership, but a great

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team. I mean, I think we all worked really well

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together and I think we got some cool stuff done.

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So it was as difficult as it was, it was a rewarding

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year, I think, to be working. working the county

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issues. Yeah, you know, I think it was too. And

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the team came together really well. I'm sure

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I'm sure in spite of the leadership. Thank you

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for that comment. You know, when we were at our

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last LSC meeting, I think it was the last one

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we were given our updates. And what did you say?

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You said the good bills have passed the bad bills.

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and to my fellow colleagues here at WASAC, that's

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how it's done. Oh, yeah, that was my little,

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my arrogant moment of just total hubris. But,

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you know, you were speaking truth. I mean, you

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were preaching the truth. That's really what

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happened this year with your policy area. Generally

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speaking, yeah. I mean, so for in the areas of

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public safety, behavioral health, human services.

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you know, it was, and there was a mix of some

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really good bills and some really bad bills and

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kind of everything in between. And yeah. And

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by the end of session, the right stuff had filtered

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through and the, and the bad stuff had, had not

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quite made it. So it was, yeah, like I said,

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it was, it kind of sat there on that last, last

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day of, you know, kind of getting bills out and

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was kind of going, wow, we got all this stuff

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done. Yeah. Assuming they get signed by the governor.

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Yeah. I mean, you know, after such a tough session

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that, you know, it was only 105 days. I know.

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Just like every other long. session, but boy,

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it felt longer, didn't it? It did. I don't know

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if it's just because it started late and then

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finished, you know, all the way at the end of

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April versus, you know, kind of more the mid

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April. Speaking of the governor, I think part

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of the, I think. having a governor change was

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maybe a bit of it. That was a big change. I think

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there, because I think everybody was sort of

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put on tilt a little bit by that. I don't mean

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it, you know, in a good way or bad way. I just

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mean just a new way. It was a new way, right?

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All of a sudden the agencies were interacting

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differently. We had new people we had to get

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to know over in that shop. They were approaching

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issues differently. And it wasn't business as

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usual when you got a $16 billion budget deficit.

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That's right. And on top of that, it was a challenging,

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right. A challenging budget environment. So yeah,

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I mean, I think I do think there were things.

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You know, we've been kind of, I think, to some

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degree, I mean, if we take the pandemic out of

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it a little bit, but for the last 12 years have

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been in a relatively, we've kind of been in a

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groove, I think, right? The legislature was in

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a groove. I think lobby, you know. organizations

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and lobby groups were in a groove. I mean, we

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all just kind of going through the motions doing

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our stuff. And this year felt different. I mean,

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clearly there were new issues, there were new

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topics, new conversations, and new voices. We

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had a really new legislature on top of that,

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right? We had a lot of new members, both in the

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House and the Senate. So yeah, it just felt new

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and different. but also kind of long and grueling

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at the same time. Very true. You know, we have

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a lot of new members here at WASAC as well. Likewise.

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Yeah. Right. And we entered the session with

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a, probably the most. most robust, most, gosh,

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what other word would I use? Challenging legislative

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priority list that I can remember ever. Myself,

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yeah, likewise. I don't know that I can remember

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that many things on the wish list before. We

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introduced like 20 bills this year. Now, a lot

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of those were companions. It's a little crazy.

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But that's, yeah. I gotta be honest. I mean,

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that's a lot of bills. That's a lot of bills

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for any organization to try to do that. I can't

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even believe we got them all. We got them all.

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introduced. Yeah, right. Because you've got to

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find a sponsor for every single one of them.

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You should have figured there was at least a

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third of those that weren't even going to get

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out of the gate. Yeah, but that's not what happened.

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We got every single one of those bills introduced.

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Now, some of them... barely quickly they got

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introduced and that was about it right but but

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that wasn't true for your priority well and if

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they stumble they're still alive right we're

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beginning of a biennium that's true so nothing

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nothing's you know they're still there ready

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for next year that's right yeah so yeah so but

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let's talk about 1813 yeah so 1813 that we came

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into session um with a pretty heavy bill uh for

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behavioral health really designed to try to kind

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of push two envelopes both one in terms of And

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we've talked about it before on this podcast,

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but really trying to revamp kind of the way the

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crisis system, behavioral health crisis system

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is. not only funded, but sort of how the contractual

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obligations that come from the state are arranged

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and what voices are a part of the process of

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figuring out how to, you know, what services

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are needed, where they're needed, how we deal

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with better funding models, etc. It was a bill

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designed to do to really push the envelope in

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terms of getting a statewide re -procurement.

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accomplished, as well as another component that

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would have done what's called a carve -out for

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crisis systems. So it would have carved out Medicaid

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crisis dollars specifically for BHASOs, Behavioral

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Health Administrative Services Organizations,

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which are essentially the sort of county body.

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Now, this isn't the first time we've talked about

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re -procurement though, right? No. We had a previous

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bill, 1515, a couple of years ago. We did and

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asked that re -procurement. The 1515 legislation

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was, it had re -procurement in it, but it was

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more focused on network adequacy right and access

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so it was really like trying to figure out but

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those two things are related right they are 100

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related and that's why i think we came back with

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1813 is because we felt like we didn't see enough

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action and results from 1515. And I will say

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from the legislators we worked with and other

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partners up there, that frustration wasn't just

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ours, right? There were a lot of folks that were

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feeling that way. Yeah. You know, it surprises

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me every time we go up and we talk about these

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behavioral health bills, how engaged some of

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the legislators really are in a really difficult

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subject area. You know, there are other subject

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areas as well, you know, like water resources,

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for instance, that I've worked in. in or on a

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lot in the past. And the legislators who can

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really speak that issue fluently and well are

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few and far between. And they really start to

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be looked, their caucuses look at them, right?

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And so look to them to kind of be the experts

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on it because it is complicated and hard to understand.

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For sure. And so they become not just, you know,

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kind of the key legislators. from the point of

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view of being able to articulate issues and explain

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them to their caucus, but they really become

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the de facto leaders on that issue where people

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defer to their judgment and their votes are based

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on those folks' opinions. They make or break

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or build those individuals. They do. And when

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we're talking behavioral health... I've noticed

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that the bench, so to speak, in the legislature

00:11:33.090 --> 00:11:36.549
for folks who are engaged in a meaningful way

00:11:36.549 --> 00:11:39.870
and can really understand and discuss the behavioral

00:11:39.870 --> 00:11:42.629
health system, right? The service system in Washington

00:11:42.629 --> 00:11:46.490
state and the problems associated with it has

00:11:46.490 --> 00:11:49.009
grown. It has. It definitely has. Which is very

00:11:49.009 --> 00:11:51.230
nice to see. It is. It's wonderful. I mean, and

00:11:51.230 --> 00:11:54.250
in fact, you know, there have been times in past

00:11:54.250 --> 00:11:56.570
sessions where it felt like, you know, I've been

00:11:56.570 --> 00:11:58.309
doing this lobbying for this type of work for

00:11:58.309 --> 00:11:59.750
a while. while now. And sometimes it felt like

00:11:59.750 --> 00:12:01.490
I was, you know, it was like, am I the only voice

00:12:01.490 --> 00:12:03.909
up here? Yeah, you're an island of one. Talking

00:12:03.909 --> 00:12:05.830
into the wind, kind of, you know? No, I felt

00:12:05.830 --> 00:12:07.490
the same way on other issues. Exactly. Yeah.

00:12:07.549 --> 00:12:09.370
I mean, I'm sure it's not exclusive to my work,

00:12:09.429 --> 00:12:13.490
but that was different. That has changed. You

00:12:13.490 --> 00:12:15.289
know, and I do a shout out to our sponsor on

00:12:15.289 --> 00:12:17.710
1813. I mean, Representative Nicole Macri, who

00:12:17.710 --> 00:12:21.269
is one of those, who is a leader, both in terms

00:12:21.269 --> 00:12:24.330
of her caucus, but just sort of, you know. statewide

00:12:24.330 --> 00:12:26.470
as it relates to understanding behavioral health

00:12:26.470 --> 00:12:31.070
issues and not just behavioral health, but sort

00:12:31.070 --> 00:12:32.830
of all the parts that intersect with behavioral

00:12:32.830 --> 00:12:37.490
health. And she worked really hard to help us

00:12:37.490 --> 00:12:39.590
get this bill through. And so, you know, without

00:12:39.590 --> 00:12:42.139
her, we would have... we would have stumbled

00:12:42.139 --> 00:12:44.980
harder, I think along the way. But, but yeah,

00:12:45.019 --> 00:12:48.000
no, I mean, I do think, you know, it's a good,

00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:49.779
it's a good, I think there've been some good

00:12:49.779 --> 00:12:51.860
movement from the house to the Senate. The Senate

00:12:51.860 --> 00:12:53.759
was one area in particular that had a pretty,

00:12:53.779 --> 00:12:56.220
pretty small bench of folks that engaged on this

00:12:56.220 --> 00:12:58.460
stuff. And then the house has continued to grow,

00:12:58.620 --> 00:13:00.600
I think in terms. And the nice part about behavioral

00:13:00.600 --> 00:13:02.919
health is very often it's bipartisan. And so

00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:04.799
you're able to bring in, yeah, which is a nice

00:13:04.799 --> 00:13:06.480
part about that issue is you really do bring

00:13:06.480 --> 00:13:08.960
in both Democrats and Republicans who care about

00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:12.720
this issue. Oftentimes, their ideas for how to

00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:15.259
fix stuff isn't that far apart. They might have

00:13:15.259 --> 00:13:18.919
nuances and some slight... differences in um

00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:21.360
in the technical parts of it but for the most

00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:23.299
part everybody's kind of pushing in the same

00:13:23.299 --> 00:13:25.620
direction uh which which also makes it nice you

00:13:25.620 --> 00:13:28.700
know other than maybe taxes and law enforcement

00:13:28.700 --> 00:13:31.419
to be honest with you most issues in the legislature

00:13:31.419 --> 00:13:33.879
the two sides aren't that far apart i agree especially

00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:36.019
when you start talking about people who know

00:13:36.019 --> 00:13:38.580
the issue yeah and they and they get into the

00:13:38.580 --> 00:13:42.399
technical aspects of it a lot of it is there's

00:13:42.399 --> 00:13:45.639
less partisanship baked into those issues that

00:13:45.639 --> 00:13:48.399
I think most people realize. Yeah, I think you're

00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:49.879
right. I think most people think it's far more

00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:52.779
partisan than it is. Although, you know, it's

00:13:52.779 --> 00:13:55.539
not without. No, it's definitely not without.

00:13:55.740 --> 00:13:58.379
The partisanship rears its head at various points.

00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:01.240
Yep. And that's just part of politics, right?

00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:03.559
It is, 100%. Yeah. Yeah, that's just part of

00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:05.259
it. Part of what you deal with, yeah. But it

00:14:05.259 --> 00:14:08.259
was great to see the cooperation on both sides

00:14:08.259 --> 00:14:10.899
of the aisle in this bill. Yes. And I just wanted

00:14:10.899 --> 00:14:13.259
to comment, you know, and I think that a lot

00:14:13.289 --> 00:14:14.710
lot of that's due to the work that you've done

00:14:14.710 --> 00:14:18.710
uh and others in kind of your space but also

00:14:18.710 --> 00:14:21.190
just you know kudos to the legislature for digging

00:14:21.190 --> 00:14:23.470
in on a pretty tough issue 100 and you know it's

00:14:23.470 --> 00:14:25.230
funny i mean just about every legislator who

00:14:25.230 --> 00:14:27.049
spoke on this bill whether it was in a committee

00:14:27.049 --> 00:14:30.330
or on the floor i mean they kind of reference

00:14:30.330 --> 00:14:32.460
that that these these these are These are complicated

00:14:32.460 --> 00:14:35.960
issues, hard issues. They affect a lot of people,

00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:39.639
oftentimes really vulnerable people. And as we've

00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:41.019
talked about, intersect a lot of parts of the

00:14:41.019 --> 00:14:43.399
system. And really, I think there was a lot of

00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.179
really earnest effort by legislators to try to

00:14:46.179 --> 00:14:48.100
continue to push something. In fact, there was

00:14:48.100 --> 00:14:50.720
just an article in The Seattle Times today that

00:14:50.720 --> 00:14:55.090
had a number of bills listed. of of issues around

00:14:55.090 --> 00:14:57.070
the mental health behavioral health space yeah

00:14:57.070 --> 00:14:58.690
i read that article right that the legislature

00:14:58.690 --> 00:15:01.210
dug in on i mean 1813 was listed among them but

00:15:01.210 --> 00:15:03.590
i think you continue to see it is a bipartisan

00:15:03.590 --> 00:15:06.429
priority up there uh with with the legislature

00:15:06.429 --> 00:15:08.970
and they they take it seriously now this bill

00:15:08.970 --> 00:15:10.610
took a bit of a journey this year right because

00:15:10.610 --> 00:15:13.129
it was a little bit of an odyssey well it started

00:15:13.129 --> 00:15:15.330
out the way that you described it all those pieces

00:15:15.330 --> 00:15:17.879
yep but it ended up It ended up different. I

00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:21.340
don't want to say a lot different, but I mean,

00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:22.759
it did end up different, right? Yeah, it was

00:15:22.759 --> 00:15:24.340
a bit of a horse of a different color by the

00:15:24.340 --> 00:15:26.679
time it finished. It's not unusual for a bill

00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:29.080
to get amended, right? Stakeholders weigh in.

00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:32.139
I mean, the person who writes the perfect bill

00:15:32.139 --> 00:15:34.899
on a controversial issue the first time right

00:15:34.899 --> 00:15:37.080
out of the gate, first of all. doesn't exist

00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:39.200
that never happened waiting to see that yeah

00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:41.200
the only perfect bills are the ones that are

00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:43.840
so benign right that almost no one cares they're

00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:48.860
joint memorials right it's it it is so rare for

00:15:48.860 --> 00:15:51.200
a bill to get technical fix yeah right it's so

00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.000
rare for a bill to actually get through both

00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:56.629
houses without becoming substitute or second

00:15:56.629 --> 00:15:59.610
and gross substitute or third and you know substitute

00:15:59.610 --> 00:16:02.029
and gross third substitute house bill or whatever

00:16:02.029 --> 00:16:04.049
it's i think it's rare for a bill to get through

00:16:04.049 --> 00:16:06.330
both house both chambers either way right much

00:16:06.330 --> 00:16:08.750
less in the anywhere near its original but yeah

00:16:08.750 --> 00:16:11.450
but without even minor amendments second third

00:16:11.450 --> 00:16:14.090
substitute it's so rare right with eight strikers

00:16:14.090 --> 00:16:16.889
on it between now and whatever yeah so so Tell

00:16:16.889 --> 00:16:18.769
us about the journey of this bill. Yeah. So where

00:16:18.769 --> 00:16:20.710
the bill started, like I said, it started with,

00:16:20.789 --> 00:16:25.210
I think, a pretty big scope of requiring, with

00:16:25.210 --> 00:16:28.950
some hard dates, a re -procurement for Medicaid

00:16:28.950 --> 00:16:31.490
managed care in Washington state, as well as

00:16:31.490 --> 00:16:36.669
a carve out, as we discussed, for Medicaid enrollees

00:16:36.669 --> 00:16:39.529
who are being served in the crisis side of the

00:16:39.529 --> 00:16:40.830
system. So basically what that would have done

00:16:40.830 --> 00:16:44.190
is shifted dollars and responsibility away from

00:16:44.190 --> 00:16:46.269
the Medicaid managed care organization. Over

00:16:46.269 --> 00:16:48.730
to the BHA, so those behavioral health administrative

00:16:48.730 --> 00:16:51.029
services organizations, essentially the counties

00:16:51.029 --> 00:16:54.850
in a much more meaningful way for them to sort

00:16:54.850 --> 00:16:56.950
of manage those dollars and serve those people.

00:16:58.480 --> 00:16:59.759
The bill went through a number of iterations.

00:16:59.940 --> 00:17:02.820
Every time the counties engage on a behavioral

00:17:02.820 --> 00:17:05.880
health issue, we almost always attract our friends

00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:08.460
at the tribes who want to come in and also take

00:17:08.460 --> 00:17:10.640
an opportunity to make sure that they're part

00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:12.259
of the system because their system operates slightly

00:17:12.259 --> 00:17:15.599
differently. But a lot of times, you know, in...

00:17:15.900 --> 00:17:17.920
counties in a regional ways. They're a partner,

00:17:18.099 --> 00:17:20.420
a strong partner in a lot of this work. So they

00:17:20.420 --> 00:17:22.640
took an opportunity to make some changes and

00:17:22.640 --> 00:17:24.720
ask for some things in this bill as well as a

00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:27.240
vehicle, which was fine. Didn't have any problem

00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:28.779
with that. And it was complimentary, I think,

00:17:28.779 --> 00:17:30.720
to where we were trying to go. But then we did

00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:34.299
run into some issues really around funding became

00:17:34.299 --> 00:17:36.480
a problem. The budget constraints started to

00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:40.299
impact this bill primarily because asking and

00:17:40.299 --> 00:17:42.079
requiring the health care authority to do certain

00:17:42.079 --> 00:17:44.299
things was going to cost money. Would it cost

00:17:44.299 --> 00:17:46.450
new money? And then In addition to that, this

00:17:46.450 --> 00:17:48.690
carve -out idea that we discussed would have

00:17:48.690 --> 00:17:51.410
required some new additional state dollars to

00:17:51.410 --> 00:17:54.789
make it work, to sort of help. There would have

00:17:54.789 --> 00:17:57.910
been a reserve requirement that the BHA SOs would

00:17:57.910 --> 00:17:59.369
have had to maintain that would have probably

00:17:59.369 --> 00:18:01.069
required some new money to make that happen.

00:18:01.309 --> 00:18:03.369
And so that really, I think, started to change

00:18:03.369 --> 00:18:05.150
the dynamic of what we could ask for and what

00:18:05.150 --> 00:18:07.509
we could expect. And so by the time the bill

00:18:07.509 --> 00:18:10.730
ended up, we do have some good language still

00:18:10.730 --> 00:18:13.509
in terms of pushing towards a re -procurement,

00:18:13.529 --> 00:18:15.480
which we know is on the horizon. Yeah, the new

00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:18.819
one requires HCA to prepare for a re -procurement

00:18:18.819 --> 00:18:22.799
by what, 2027? July 1, maybe? Yep, July. Not

00:18:22.799 --> 00:18:26.799
only prepare, but also consult with interested

00:18:26.799 --> 00:18:29.380
or relevant stakeholders, right? So for partners

00:18:29.380 --> 00:18:31.559
in the system, and specifically calls out counties.

00:18:31.640 --> 00:18:34.059
So that's as far as the bill goes, right? On

00:18:34.059 --> 00:18:35.720
the re -procurement. Yeah, it doesn't actually

00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:38.720
say, okay, it doesn't say prepare by July 1,

00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:41.890
2027, and then... implement it just says prepare

00:18:41.890 --> 00:18:44.950
for it does so are we kind of anticipating maybe

00:18:44.950 --> 00:18:47.529
another trailer bill after that you know it's

00:18:47.529 --> 00:18:49.509
it's funny i mean well i i think we're gonna

00:18:49.509 --> 00:18:51.089
have to think through that a bit i think we're

00:18:51.089 --> 00:18:52.390
gonna have to talk to the new to the governor

00:18:52.390 --> 00:18:54.190
the new you know, the new governor's office as

00:18:54.190 --> 00:18:55.769
they get themselves underway. I think part of

00:18:55.769 --> 00:18:57.930
the other issue that this bill ran into is we

00:18:57.930 --> 00:18:59.930
were going to have a new agency leadership at

00:18:59.930 --> 00:19:02.029
the health care authority. And so there was some

00:19:02.029 --> 00:19:05.130
hesitation to do too many dramatic things without

00:19:05.130 --> 00:19:07.809
having new leadership there sort of buying into

00:19:07.809 --> 00:19:10.009
it, right, instead of walking in on it and sort

00:19:10.009 --> 00:19:12.630
of, you know. And I think the other elephant

00:19:12.630 --> 00:19:14.450
in the room, just to be honest, is there's a

00:19:14.450 --> 00:19:15.930
lot of concern around what's happening at the

00:19:15.930 --> 00:19:17.710
federal level. And people are concerned around

00:19:17.710 --> 00:19:21.390
making too many big changes to any part of the

00:19:21.390 --> 00:19:24.569
Medicaid program. when we're uncertain what things

00:19:24.569 --> 00:19:26.450
will look like coming down from the federal government.

00:19:26.609 --> 00:19:29.390
And I think that's a viable concern. I don't

00:19:29.390 --> 00:19:33.130
think that's without merit. But it did also create

00:19:33.130 --> 00:19:36.170
a bit of a... chilling effect, I think, on some

00:19:36.170 --> 00:19:37.650
of the stuff we were trying to do. Yeah. And

00:19:37.650 --> 00:19:40.170
that Medicaid discussion has been all over the

00:19:40.170 --> 00:19:43.849
map. You know, we went back to D .C. Gosh, I

00:19:43.849 --> 00:19:46.369
think it was in March for the NACO legislative

00:19:46.369 --> 00:19:48.650
conference. And it was one of the main topics

00:19:48.650 --> 00:19:50.809
of conversation. NACO was very concerned about

00:19:50.809 --> 00:19:55.369
it. We talked with a lot of the Congress members

00:19:55.369 --> 00:19:58.609
that we met with there that day when we were

00:19:58.609 --> 00:20:01.660
on the Hill. They were very concerned about it,

00:20:01.700 --> 00:20:03.599
but nobody had a lot of good information. Jamie

00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:06.119
just recently did one of our virtual sessions

00:20:06.119 --> 00:20:08.440
with members to kind of give them an update on

00:20:08.440 --> 00:20:09.839
what was happening with public health funding.

00:20:09.980 --> 00:20:12.000
I think Medicaid was a part of that. And then

00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:13.720
I think recently in the news within the last

00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:17.279
week, Trump came out and said he would veto any.

00:20:18.469 --> 00:20:21.369
proposal to cut Medicaid funding to the states,

00:20:21.549 --> 00:20:23.690
which really surprised me. Did that surprise

00:20:23.690 --> 00:20:27.029
you? It did, especially since I think what we've

00:20:27.029 --> 00:20:29.470
seen sort of leaking out from the administration

00:20:29.470 --> 00:20:32.630
and certainly from Congress, I think, you know,

00:20:32.630 --> 00:20:36.009
was not in that vein. At all. At all, right.

00:20:36.190 --> 00:20:38.170
I mean, so yeah, I don't know. I mean, I've heard

00:20:38.170 --> 00:20:41.150
a number of things. And, you know, you know this

00:20:41.150 --> 00:20:43.549
as well as I do, the pace at which the feds operate

00:20:43.549 --> 00:20:45.849
versus state, right? They're glacial compared

00:20:45.849 --> 00:20:49.069
to us. So, you know, we've got a number of months

00:20:49.069 --> 00:20:50.769
to go, I think, before we'll start to see how

00:20:50.769 --> 00:20:54.190
this is shaking out. But I do think, you know,

00:20:54.269 --> 00:20:57.289
Medicaid is one of those issues that, you know,

00:20:57.289 --> 00:20:59.230
when Medicaid expansion happened across the country,

00:20:59.349 --> 00:21:01.210
it wasn't just blue states that did that, right?

00:21:01.289 --> 00:21:03.029
There were a lot of red states that took advantage

00:21:03.029 --> 00:21:07.130
of Medicaid expansion. And I think they are concerned

00:21:07.130 --> 00:21:10.069
as well, right, that that cuts to Medicaid, regardless

00:21:10.069 --> 00:21:12.750
of where you sit on the political ideology, ideological

00:21:12.750 --> 00:21:14.930
spectrum, you know, have significant impacts

00:21:14.930 --> 00:21:17.490
to students. state governments and to the folks

00:21:17.490 --> 00:21:19.569
they serve. On a per capita basis. On a per capita

00:21:19.569 --> 00:21:21.470
basis, right. The red states are actually more

00:21:21.470 --> 00:21:23.809
dependent on Medicaid. Oh, 100%. Yeah, 100%.

00:21:23.809 --> 00:21:27.130
Yeah. So again, I mean, it's an interesting sort

00:21:27.130 --> 00:21:29.470
of political dichotomy that's been set up, I

00:21:29.470 --> 00:21:32.430
think, a little bit in terms of... where they'll

00:21:32.430 --> 00:21:33.789
have to go and where we'll have to see. I would

00:21:33.789 --> 00:21:36.089
not be surprised to see the legislature come

00:21:36.089 --> 00:21:38.150
back in a special session this year, at least

00:21:38.150 --> 00:21:41.549
once, maybe more, as we see things roll out at

00:21:41.549 --> 00:21:42.809
the federal level. And I think the governor has

00:21:42.809 --> 00:21:45.349
already said he's willing to do that. You just

00:21:45.349 --> 00:21:47.529
uttered the two words that aren't allowed in

00:21:47.529 --> 00:21:50.269
this podcast. Sorry. You know what those words

00:21:50.269 --> 00:21:52.170
are, do you? Special session. No, you did it

00:21:52.170 --> 00:21:54.529
again. Sorry, sorry. The session that shall not

00:21:54.529 --> 00:21:56.630
be named. Right, the session that won't happen.

00:21:58.940 --> 00:22:00.680
Well, yeah, so we'll see on that. But yeah, no,

00:22:00.759 --> 00:22:03.059
so this bill ended up in a good place. I mean,

00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:05.740
I think there's still some good delegation authority

00:22:05.740 --> 00:22:07.720
that this is going to require for managed care

00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:10.420
to have to work more closely with the counties

00:22:10.420 --> 00:22:13.359
and BHA SOs to make things work. It has some

00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:15.319
other components in there of some things that

00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:17.500
we had been wanting to get done. So I think it's

00:22:17.500 --> 00:22:19.440
overall a good win for the association and for

00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:21.480
the behavioral health system sort of writ large.

00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:24.720
But there's more work to do. Yeah, more work

00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:26.759
to do long term, more work to do short term.

00:22:26.819 --> 00:22:28.440
Yeah, both. A lot of it. uncertainties out there

00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:30.220
that could affect it one way or the other that's

00:22:30.220 --> 00:22:31.559
right you know another one that you worked on

00:22:31.559 --> 00:22:34.299
that i wanted to talk about today that had a

00:22:34.299 --> 00:22:36.299
bit of a journey this year but ended up being

00:22:36.299 --> 00:22:38.559
a major piece of legislation that kind of came

00:22:38.559 --> 00:22:41.140
out of nowhere that we didn't expect at the beginning

00:22:41.140 --> 00:22:43.900
of the session was 2015 yeah house bill 2015

00:22:43.900 --> 00:22:47.380
or 2015 yeah and you were you were the lead on

00:22:47.380 --> 00:22:50.700
that um i was yeah i was involved very early

00:22:50.700 --> 00:22:52.640
on and got the very first briefing then i said

00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:54.720
oh brad this one's gonna be all yeah i think

00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:56.970
we went to that briefing together or there There

00:22:56.970 --> 00:22:58.390
was something up on the Hill I remember you and

00:22:58.390 --> 00:23:00.730
I went to in one of those early meetings. In

00:23:00.730 --> 00:23:02.410
the House Rules meeting, I think, with a whole

00:23:02.410 --> 00:23:04.890
bunch of people. And then when you texted me,

00:23:04.950 --> 00:23:07.789
I'm out of here. Go get them. I was like, okay,

00:23:07.950 --> 00:23:10.750
here we go. Yeah, it was an interesting bill.

00:23:13.329 --> 00:23:15.309
We've talked about it before. Public safety really

00:23:15.309 --> 00:23:18.529
became quickly a dominant area of conversation

00:23:18.529 --> 00:23:20.630
within the legislature this year. Well, driven

00:23:20.630 --> 00:23:22.690
in large part by the governor, right? 100%. And

00:23:22.690 --> 00:23:25.150
as we've also talked about before, in a much

00:23:25.150 --> 00:23:27.880
different way. than public safety and law enforcement

00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:30.200
had in previous sessions, right? Very much. This

00:23:30.200 --> 00:23:33.420
was much more of a supportive type of tone in

00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:35.500
terms of how do we come in. And I agree with

00:23:35.500 --> 00:23:37.220
you 100%. I mean, the governor definitely laid

00:23:37.220 --> 00:23:40.319
that tone down. He came in with a very clear

00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:43.099
request that he wanted $100 million for law enforcement,

00:23:43.279 --> 00:23:45.720
for locals to be able to hire new law enforcement,

00:23:45.819 --> 00:23:48.079
and to build up the public safety system at the

00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:50.220
community level. Legislature, I think, was pretty

00:23:50.220 --> 00:23:52.220
suspect of that, kind of right out of the gate.

00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:54.380
Well, let's be honest, you know, facing a $16

00:23:54.380 --> 00:23:57.150
billion budget. Apart from the money stuff. Asking

00:23:57.150 --> 00:23:59.430
for $100 million in new funding was no small

00:23:59.430 --> 00:24:02.430
thing. No, and I think to the legislature, not

00:24:02.430 --> 00:24:05.150
only did it ruffle their feathers from a precedent

00:24:05.150 --> 00:24:08.160
standpoint where they have not. before spent

00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.500
money to fund local law enforcement activities.

00:24:10.579 --> 00:24:13.019
We talked a lot about that. Exactly. And then

00:24:13.019 --> 00:24:14.740
on top of that, there had been, you know, we're

00:24:14.740 --> 00:24:16.720
just a couple of years removed from when people

00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:18.680
were walking around talking about defunding police.

00:24:18.819 --> 00:24:21.160
Right. So this was a pretty big change. And then,

00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:23.160
then like you said, there was probably some in

00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:24.859
the legislature that thought it was a bit tone

00:24:24.859 --> 00:24:27.960
deaf to come in on with that kind of an ask in

00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:30.240
a budget year like this. So yeah, it was pretty

00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:31.920
interesting. There were a number of bills that

00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:34.480
sort of started out in that process, both in

00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:36.380
the house and the Senate, and they sort of distilled

00:24:36.380 --> 00:24:39.089
down. into this one bill by the end that had

00:24:39.089 --> 00:24:42.650
multiple components in it, including a grant

00:24:42.650 --> 00:24:44.849
program that the governor was requesting up until

00:24:44.849 --> 00:24:48.509
the final budget. We had not seen anything above

00:24:48.509 --> 00:24:50.990
a $20 million kind of investment mark. I know.

00:24:51.009 --> 00:24:52.130
I was shocked to see the $100 million. I was

00:24:52.130 --> 00:24:53.670
shocked, too. That was one of the first things

00:24:53.670 --> 00:24:55.210
I looked for when I opened the budget, and I

00:24:55.210 --> 00:24:56.990
just went, holy cow, they did it. Yeah, they

00:24:56.990 --> 00:25:01.410
gave the governor his full request. Yep. So that'll

00:25:01.410 --> 00:25:04.160
be fascinating to see how that... rolls out and

00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:07.200
what that looks like. It has a three -year expiration

00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:11.519
date on it based on the legislation. But yeah,

00:25:11.579 --> 00:25:13.380
it's there. And, you know, it'll be really interesting

00:25:13.380 --> 00:25:16.480
to see how counties and cities try to take advantage

00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:19.390
of that. It's important to note that it's not

00:25:19.390 --> 00:25:22.190
it doesn't have to be used just for law enforcement,

00:25:22.329 --> 00:25:24.809
you know, hiring new deputies or whatever. There's

00:25:24.809 --> 00:25:28.309
a lot of a lot of allowable uses within the criminal

00:25:28.309 --> 00:25:30.569
justice and public safety space, which I think

00:25:30.569 --> 00:25:32.109
is pretty interesting. Well, let's talk about

00:25:32.109 --> 00:25:36.029
that because the. Isn't it the grant program

00:25:36.029 --> 00:25:38.390
can only be used for law enforcement, but the

00:25:38.390 --> 00:25:41.130
one -tenth of 1 % sales tax that's part of 2015

00:25:41.130 --> 00:25:44.769
can be used more flexibly? Or both allowed to

00:25:44.769 --> 00:25:46.150
be used more flexibly? Yeah, both can be used

00:25:46.150 --> 00:25:49.130
flexibly, actually. Oh, they can? Yeah. And I

00:25:49.130 --> 00:25:50.950
think that was an important, particularly from

00:25:50.950 --> 00:25:53.109
the House Democrats, I think that was an important

00:25:53.109 --> 00:25:56.210
component that they really wanted there to be

00:25:56.210 --> 00:25:59.109
an option for how folks, or some flexibility

00:25:59.109 --> 00:26:01.089
in terms of how folks use this money. And they

00:26:01.089 --> 00:26:02.990
were really, I think, thinking about it less

00:26:02.990 --> 00:26:04.829
in terms of law enforcement and more in terms

00:26:04.829 --> 00:26:07.190
of public safety broadly, right? Criminal justice

00:26:07.190 --> 00:26:09.730
purposes, as the bill states, right? And so there's

00:26:09.730 --> 00:26:13.069
a big definition in the bill around what that

00:26:13.069 --> 00:26:15.089
means, right? And all the allowable things. And

00:26:15.089 --> 00:26:18.529
it is a pretty broad spectrum of stuff, both

00:26:18.529 --> 00:26:20.529
for the 110th component, which we haven't talked

00:26:20.529 --> 00:26:23.009
about quite yet, but within the grant. Now, to

00:26:23.009 --> 00:26:25.849
get a grant, you'll have to have already passed

00:26:25.849 --> 00:26:29.319
a 110th. uh, for public safety in some capacity

00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:32.440
at the local level, uh, which the majority of

00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:34.579
counties have at this point. So you don't necessarily

00:26:34.579 --> 00:26:37.819
have to have passed this new one. That was just

00:26:37.819 --> 00:26:39.420
to talking about it to another lobbyist about

00:26:39.420 --> 00:26:41.519
this the other day. So no, the way it's listed

00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:43.720
is you don't have to pass, you don't have to

00:26:43.720 --> 00:26:46.859
have passed this one, uh, but you do have to

00:26:46.859 --> 00:26:50.019
previous a previous, yeah, a previous one 10th

00:26:50.019 --> 00:26:52.599
earlier versions of the bill had required that

00:26:52.599 --> 00:26:55.180
you pass the tax before you were eligible for

00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:56.980
the grant. Right. So this is, As long as you've

00:26:56.980 --> 00:27:00.180
passed a tax. Okay. And then in addition, you

00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:02.059
do have to meet a number of requirements. Yeah,

00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:04.400
around policies and training and those sorts

00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:05.480
of things. A variety of things that the legislature

00:27:05.480 --> 00:27:07.599
wanted to, you know, this money did not come

00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:10.319
without strings. And is there a matching requirement

00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:12.799
for the grant? There is not. So no matching requirement.

00:27:13.240 --> 00:27:14.940
No. It's good for three years? Good for three

00:27:14.940 --> 00:27:16.839
years. And it's $100 million? It's $100 million,

00:27:17.039 --> 00:27:20.460
yes. Okay. Pretty large infusion of funds into

00:27:20.460 --> 00:27:22.059
the system. Now, of course, it's not $100 million

00:27:22.059 --> 00:27:25.119
for every jurisdiction. Nope. All the jurisdictions

00:27:25.119 --> 00:27:27.519
being cities and counties will have to. That's

00:27:27.519 --> 00:27:28.660
right. Everybody will be. There'll be a food

00:27:28.660 --> 00:27:31.839
fight. Are other jurisdictions that have law

00:27:31.839 --> 00:27:34.039
enforcement agencies also eligible, like universities,

00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:35.559
for instance? You know, that's a good question.

00:27:35.660 --> 00:27:37.480
I actually don't know that. I don't believe so.

00:27:37.579 --> 00:27:40.259
It's pretty explicitly just says cities and counties.

00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:42.039
I don't think there's any reference to now that

00:27:42.039 --> 00:27:43.500
you say that. I mean, at first I thought that

00:27:43.500 --> 00:27:45.279
was a good question, but now that not that it

00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:48.059
was a bad question. What are you trying to say?

00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:51.200
No, but it almost caught me up there for a minute.

00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:53.599
But as thinking now, the bill is not written.

00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:55.859
in that way. It is cities and counties. Let's

00:27:55.859 --> 00:27:59.079
dive into the one -tenth authority for new sales

00:27:59.079 --> 00:28:01.960
tax. Brian Enslow and I were just talking about

00:28:01.960 --> 00:28:03.519
this a little earlier today because we were doing

00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:05.180
a deep dive into the budget. So we're talking

00:28:05.180 --> 00:28:07.960
about the new revenue sources. And we mentioned

00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:12.180
2015 and the fact that it is an additional one

00:28:12.180 --> 00:28:16.119
-tenth of 1%. You get councilmanic authority

00:28:16.119 --> 00:28:19.019
through 2028. After that, it would have to be

00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:22.579
approved by the voters. And it is stackable.

00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.099
That's right. And so we kind of talked about

00:28:25.099 --> 00:28:26.900
that. And just to clarify for everybody, in case

00:28:26.900 --> 00:28:28.660
you didn't hear the other podcast, stackable

00:28:28.660 --> 00:28:30.660
means the city has the opportunity to impose

00:28:30.660 --> 00:28:32.920
a one -tenth, but so does the county. And if

00:28:32.920 --> 00:28:35.500
both the city and the county do it, then within

00:28:35.500 --> 00:28:38.759
the cities that do so, it would be two -tenths

00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:41.519
on all taxable sales within the jurisdiction

00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:43.279
of the city. The county would get their full

00:28:43.279 --> 00:28:47.180
one -tenth. The city would get theirs. And I'll

00:28:47.180 --> 00:28:48.599
just say, I'm glad you talked about that with

00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:50.579
Brian because I don't want to. I don't want to

00:28:50.579 --> 00:28:53.400
get into that. Well, you're about to. Oh boy,

00:28:53.500 --> 00:28:55.359
here we go. Because there was one thing we couldn't

00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:56.099
settle. He is the guru on this stuff. He knows

00:28:56.099 --> 00:28:58.160
this stuff inside and out. So there was one thing

00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:00.079
we couldn't settle. And I know that you were,

00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:01.940
because you and I talked about this extensively

00:29:01.940 --> 00:29:04.799
during the session. Sure, sure. You were in on

00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:07.220
the negotiations with the cities around, because

00:29:07.220 --> 00:29:09.380
they wanted to do revenue sharing. They had some

00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:11.460
revenue sharing ideas and other things that we

00:29:11.460 --> 00:29:15.019
were able to kind of fend off. And there was

00:29:15.019 --> 00:29:16.579
a question at some point as to whether or not

00:29:16.579 --> 00:29:19.160
we were going to stack or if the city imposed.

00:29:19.369 --> 00:29:21.250
it within the city jurisdiction did that eliminate

00:29:21.250 --> 00:29:23.630
the county's authority to impose it within you

00:29:23.630 --> 00:29:27.309
know the city etc yeah um so you were involved

00:29:27.309 --> 00:29:29.609
in most of those discussions one thing that brian

00:29:29.609 --> 00:29:31.289
and i kind of got wrapped around the axel on

00:29:31.289 --> 00:29:35.930
um was okay the county gets the full 110th in

00:29:35.930 --> 00:29:38.509
the county right the county gets the full 110th

00:29:38.509 --> 00:29:41.430
it imposes also on taxable sales in the city

00:29:41.430 --> 00:29:44.289
the city can authorize a one -tenth, but does

00:29:44.289 --> 00:29:46.509
the county get 15 % of the city's one -tenth

00:29:46.509 --> 00:29:48.789
like it gets of the other sales taxes that the

00:29:48.789 --> 00:29:52.769
city collects? I don't believe so. Okay. It's

00:29:52.769 --> 00:29:56.190
a good question. I had thought about that during

00:29:56.190 --> 00:29:58.759
the conversations. I don't believe that's the

00:29:58.759 --> 00:30:00.180
case. Did it come up during the conversations?

00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:03.420
Sort of. It sort of came up, especially when

00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:06.180
the cities were asking for some revenue sharing

00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:10.559
from our option. And like you mentioned, there's

00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:12.680
sort of a historical precedence for both sides

00:30:12.680 --> 00:30:15.119
to sort of take a piece of each other's action,

00:30:15.220 --> 00:30:19.859
for lack of a better term. There really isn't

00:30:19.859 --> 00:30:22.440
any of that in this bill for the most part. I

00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:25.019
think that's partly why there was a desire to

00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:27.369
potentially put in more of the component. of

00:30:27.369 --> 00:30:31.809
House Bill 5775, which I think was more explicit

00:30:31.809 --> 00:30:35.470
on those pieces. But that wasn't built in. And

00:30:35.470 --> 00:30:38.589
so I think in the end, I think this is very much

00:30:38.589 --> 00:30:41.589
your revenue is your revenue. What you impose

00:30:41.589 --> 00:30:43.690
is what you impose, and you get to keep it. That

00:30:43.690 --> 00:30:46.410
seems fair. It does. But a little different than

00:30:46.410 --> 00:30:49.089
past bills, I think, in this space. Yeah. We

00:30:49.089 --> 00:30:52.890
just weren't sure, being that kind of the normal

00:30:52.890 --> 00:30:56.809
operational kind of standard is, City collects

00:30:56.809 --> 00:31:00.089
sales tax and the county gets 15 % of the city's

00:31:00.089 --> 00:31:01.950
share. Yeah, exactly. And it's funny. I mean,

00:31:01.990 --> 00:31:05.329
and maybe some of this will – I say some of this.

00:31:05.390 --> 00:31:07.269
I mean, even as it relates to the grant, right?

00:31:07.369 --> 00:31:09.549
I mean, CJ, Criminal Justice Training Commission

00:31:09.549 --> 00:31:12.269
is going to have to do a lot of work in terms

00:31:12.269 --> 00:31:15.349
of eligibility and rolling grants out, et cetera.

00:31:16.210 --> 00:31:18.250
So there's stuff that remains to be seen, I guess,

00:31:18.269 --> 00:31:20.069
is the bottom line with some of this. I think

00:31:20.069 --> 00:31:22.589
there are some vagaries in the bill like what

00:31:22.589 --> 00:31:25.640
we just talked about that – Maybe they were operating

00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:27.779
from assumptions or maybe they weren't. I don't

00:31:27.779 --> 00:31:31.480
know. So the intent – there was no discussion

00:31:31.480 --> 00:31:33.460
that I remember of the legislature making that

00:31:33.460 --> 00:31:35.740
as part of their sort of intent language for

00:31:35.740 --> 00:31:39.579
how this was going to work. We'll see as taxes

00:31:39.579 --> 00:31:43.759
start getting passed and how it shakes out. How

00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:45.240
the distribution actually happens. Yeah, and

00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:48.500
if fights start to happen and whether the bill

00:31:48.500 --> 00:31:50.420
has to have some cleanup next year or not. We'll

00:31:50.420 --> 00:31:53.599
see. But as I read it right now, that's not built

00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:56.220
in. How quickly can counties and cities take

00:31:56.220 --> 00:31:58.819
action on this bill? As soon as they can attest

00:31:58.819 --> 00:32:03.700
to their – to be eligible to pass the tax councilmanically,

00:32:03.819 --> 00:32:06.339
you do have to show that you can meet the conditions

00:32:06.339 --> 00:32:08.700
for having received – to receive a grant. So

00:32:08.700 --> 00:32:11.480
you don't have to get a grant, but – You have

00:32:11.480 --> 00:32:14.000
to show that you would be eligible to receive

00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:17.240
a grant and meet these criteria. So whether you

00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:19.480
get a grant or not, if you want to impose the

00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:21.660
new tax, you have to meet the grants. You have

00:32:21.660 --> 00:32:23.220
to still be able to meet the grant requirements,

00:32:23.259 --> 00:32:26.539
which most the vast majority of jurisdictions

00:32:26.539 --> 00:32:29.579
should be able to do so. But as soon as you can

00:32:29.579 --> 00:32:33.559
offer that attestation. You're good to go. I

00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:35.740
mean, so as soon as your jurisdiction can throw

00:32:35.740 --> 00:32:37.839
it up, wants to take action on it, you're free

00:32:37.839 --> 00:32:39.599
to do so. I mean, once the bill is obviously

00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:42.660
enacted. That said, there is a 12 -month cooling

00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:46.839
off period for any jurisdiction that has – well,

00:32:46.980 --> 00:32:49.180
actually just counties. This was an issue I took

00:32:49.180 --> 00:32:51.160
a little umbrage of during session but didn't

00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:53.740
get resolved. But basically that counties who

00:32:53.740 --> 00:32:56.519
have tried to pass a public safety tax by a public

00:32:56.519 --> 00:33:01.980
vote and it has failed within the last – 12 months

00:33:01.980 --> 00:33:04.839
well i think within the last 12 months yeah so

00:33:04.839 --> 00:33:08.309
it's within the last 12 months um can't take

00:33:08.309 --> 00:33:10.910
action on the tax for that 12 -month period,

00:33:11.069 --> 00:33:13.890
basically. I think that's better than the original

00:33:13.890 --> 00:33:16.430
version. The original was two years. Which would

00:33:16.430 --> 00:33:19.329
have made some ineligible for utilizing the councilmatic

00:33:19.329 --> 00:33:20.890
authority the way that it was originally. It

00:33:20.890 --> 00:33:22.009
would. It would have complicated, particularly

00:33:22.009 --> 00:33:24.630
for a couple counties. So this was much more

00:33:24.630 --> 00:33:26.809
palatable. I had issues with the fact that I

00:33:26.809 --> 00:33:28.109
didn't feel like that was fair because counties

00:33:28.109 --> 00:33:29.789
were the only ones called out on that. So if

00:33:29.789 --> 00:33:32.950
the city tried to take a vote, they weren't affected

00:33:32.950 --> 00:33:35.779
by that cooling off period. Legislature didn't

00:33:35.779 --> 00:33:37.680
have a they didn't have a desire to get into

00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:39.400
the food fight on that. It's strange how the

00:33:39.400 --> 00:33:42.480
legislature sometimes really treats counties

00:33:42.480 --> 00:33:45.559
and cities in despairing ways, whether they know

00:33:45.559 --> 00:33:48.319
it or not. Well, yeah, it was funny. I mean,

00:33:48.319 --> 00:33:51.359
the word I got from the legislature as I was

00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:53.099
talking to individual members was like, hey,

00:33:53.180 --> 00:33:56.200
if that's your fight to have with if we're not

00:33:56.200 --> 00:33:58.079
going to get the business of that. So we know

00:33:58.079 --> 00:33:59.960
that we want this rule because this has been

00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:02.779
you know, this was sort of. recent conversation

00:34:02.779 --> 00:34:04.319
with the counties and so we're doing it this

00:34:04.319 --> 00:34:06.990
way but You know, whatever. So it is what it

00:34:06.990 --> 00:34:10.050
is. But it was, to your point, it was another

00:34:10.050 --> 00:34:11.349
one of those where I was kind of like, geez.

00:34:11.530 --> 00:34:13.309
Well, sometimes they have to put clauses like

00:34:13.309 --> 00:34:16.449
that into bills to appease certain members. Right.

00:34:16.510 --> 00:34:18.429
Exactly. Which is what an element of that was.

00:34:18.690 --> 00:34:20.949
But yeah, a little good for the goose, good for

00:34:20.949 --> 00:34:22.389
the gander would have been nice from my perspective.

00:34:22.550 --> 00:34:25.050
So 2015, how did it come out on a bipartisan

00:34:25.050 --> 00:34:27.650
way? Or was it mostly partisan? You know, it

00:34:27.650 --> 00:34:29.809
was funny. It was mostly partisan by the time

00:34:29.809 --> 00:34:31.530
it came out. Although I got to say, if you go

00:34:31.530 --> 00:34:34.050
actually and look at the vote, it was an interesting.

00:34:34.349 --> 00:34:38.670
vote. There were a number of, I guess you would

00:34:38.670 --> 00:34:41.349
call them progressive liberals, right, that specifically

00:34:41.349 --> 00:34:45.050
have umbrage either with, and I've used that

00:34:45.050 --> 00:34:47.150
word twice now in this podcast, that's got to

00:34:47.150 --> 00:34:49.110
be some kind of record of any podcast, probably

00:34:49.110 --> 00:34:55.670
in general. Your vocabulary is vast and very

00:34:55.670 --> 00:34:58.650
impressive. We take what we can get, I guess.

00:34:59.469 --> 00:35:04.369
Both in terms of uh see now i forgot what i was

00:35:04.369 --> 00:35:07.849
gonna say where were we on this umbridge we were

00:35:07.849 --> 00:35:10.010
talking taking umbridge we were talking about

00:35:10.010 --> 00:35:12.969
how even some of the uh majority party some of

00:35:12.969 --> 00:35:15.269
the oh yeah sorry sorry sorry so yeah they they

00:35:15.269 --> 00:35:17.269
either didn't like the fact that it was another

00:35:17.269 --> 00:35:20.090
regressive tax in their view right which oftentimes

00:35:20.090 --> 00:35:22.489
sales tax gets more and more funding for law

00:35:22.489 --> 00:35:24.969
or more funding for law enforcement um so there

00:35:24.969 --> 00:35:26.889
was that piece there was obviously on the republican

00:35:26.889 --> 00:35:29.090
side of the on the conservative side of the of

00:35:29.090 --> 00:35:32.110
the spectrum there was It's a tax. We don't like

00:35:32.110 --> 00:35:34.090
taxes. Right. Even though they definitely were

00:35:34.090 --> 00:35:37.730
there in terms of wanting to support law enforcement.

00:35:37.829 --> 00:35:39.610
Right. And sort of public safety more generally.

00:35:39.630 --> 00:35:42.429
So it did create sort of a weird dynamic within

00:35:42.429 --> 00:35:44.590
the legislature on this. And as it did pass out.

00:35:45.789 --> 00:35:48.389
You know, it didn't pass by overwhelming numbers,

00:35:48.550 --> 00:35:51.389
but it did pass out with a interesting bipartisan

00:35:51.389 --> 00:35:54.869
vote. So I guess. So there were Republicans and

00:35:54.869 --> 00:35:56.510
Democrats. There were both sides. There were.

00:35:56.590 --> 00:35:59.050
And it was. Yeah, there were. And it was one

00:35:59.050 --> 00:36:01.630
of those that in the end, I'm not sure I would

00:36:01.630 --> 00:36:04.059
have expected. any different, I suppose, you

00:36:04.059 --> 00:36:06.539
know, when it all shakes out. I think during

00:36:06.539 --> 00:36:08.280
session, there were a lot of good conversations

00:36:08.280 --> 00:36:10.239
on both sides trying to work this through. And

00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:12.099
as you recall, I mean, the governor went to a

00:36:12.099 --> 00:36:14.539
Republican to prime the initial bill in this

00:36:14.539 --> 00:36:18.460
space, Senator Holy. Yeah. So it tried to start

00:36:18.460 --> 00:36:20.780
at a bipartisan level, and I think it tried to

00:36:20.780 --> 00:36:22.500
carry through as best it could towards the end.

00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:24.840
But towards the end, it kind of came back down

00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:28.000
to a more partisan position. But it did pass.

00:36:28.219 --> 00:36:30.000
Yeah, well, congratulations on that. I know you

00:36:30.000 --> 00:36:31.280
worked hard on it. Yeah, it was a good bill.

00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:34.199
A lot of good work from the other county lobbyists

00:36:34.199 --> 00:36:35.840
out there. This was really a team effort to kind

00:36:35.840 --> 00:36:37.480
of do this, and our partners at the cities, frankly,

00:36:37.559 --> 00:36:40.239
as well. There were a lot of folks engaged in

00:36:40.239 --> 00:36:42.119
this and making it happen, and I'm glad it passed.

00:36:42.260 --> 00:36:44.119
It was a good bill. Well, when I think about

00:36:44.119 --> 00:36:46.360
the session and I think about kind of the two

00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:48.659
key – well, I shouldn't say the two key. When

00:36:48.659 --> 00:36:51.380
I think about the key bills that you really worked

00:36:51.380 --> 00:36:53.480
on that we had positive outcomes on this year,

00:36:53.539 --> 00:36:56.630
obviously 13 -18 and – 18 -13. Oh, yeah. Excuse

00:36:56.630 --> 00:37:00.010
me. 1813. And I don't get my bills dropped that

00:37:00.010 --> 00:37:02.690
early. They can be 13. I can appreciate that.

00:37:02.690 --> 00:37:06.989
I wish they were. And 2015 were two of the key

00:37:06.989 --> 00:37:11.070
ones. What other bills were out there that were

00:37:11.070 --> 00:37:13.849
really fundamental this year that you think had

00:37:13.849 --> 00:37:16.409
good outcomes? And by a good outcome, I can,

00:37:16.429 --> 00:37:18.070
you know, it could mean the bill failed. Yeah.

00:37:18.110 --> 00:37:22.260
I mean, so certainly from a from a. In that vein,

00:37:22.460 --> 00:37:25.880
there were a number of bills, 1322 and its companion,

00:37:26.099 --> 00:37:28.780
5296, which dealt with juvenile rehabilitation.

00:37:28.940 --> 00:37:32.980
Those were two bills that we wanted to engage

00:37:32.980 --> 00:37:34.820
on heavily because we've been, you know, the

00:37:34.820 --> 00:37:36.760
counties have been very interested in forward

00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:40.579
movement in the JR space. And neither of those

00:37:40.579 --> 00:37:43.619
bills, from our perspective, were a good option.

00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:46.480
Mostly because they were really expensive. It

00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:48.980
was the cost shift component that was primarily

00:37:48.980 --> 00:37:52.500
our concern. The prosecutors and other groups

00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:55.219
had some policy concerns as well. So they just

00:37:55.219 --> 00:37:58.159
were bills we had a real challenge with and worked

00:37:58.159 --> 00:38:00.099
really hard. I mean, our juvenile court administrators,

00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:01.820
likewise, right, kept saying, you know, some

00:38:01.820 --> 00:38:04.059
of this is workable, but without any money, it's

00:38:04.059 --> 00:38:06.400
just it's not going to happen. And so, you know,

00:38:06.420 --> 00:38:09.699
I think it was a nice it was a hard conversation.

00:38:09.960 --> 00:38:11.579
It was pretty emotional, I think, for a number

00:38:11.579 --> 00:38:13.480
of legislators working on these issues. Yeah.

00:38:13.619 --> 00:38:16.000
But those bills ended up not making it. I think

00:38:16.000 --> 00:38:18.980
disappointingly, there were a couple other bills

00:38:18.980 --> 00:38:21.739
that did do some good. would have done some good

00:38:21.739 --> 00:38:23.900
things in the JR space that didn't make it either.

00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:27.480
5296 almost seemed like... a reversion to where

00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:29.460
we were in the summer a little bit where they

00:38:29.460 --> 00:38:32.360
were, where, where the state was looking at solving

00:38:32.360 --> 00:38:35.539
its problem on our back, right. Of overpopulation

00:38:35.539 --> 00:38:39.519
and unsafe conditions by forcing counties to

00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:42.239
take on more responsibility for, you know, the,

00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:45.420
the juvenile offender oversight piece. Right.

00:38:45.539 --> 00:38:48.179
That's right. And they were looking at doing

00:38:48.179 --> 00:38:52.920
it in a way that was almost a little fantastical

00:38:52.920 --> 00:38:55.679
or, or fantasy based because they were assuming

00:38:55.679 --> 00:38:58.619
programs existed or, or infrastructure was in

00:38:58.619 --> 00:39:00.840
place in counties to handle these, these, which

00:39:00.840 --> 00:39:02.619
they absolutely were not. Yeah. These offenders.

00:39:02.699 --> 00:39:04.960
And we would have had to. we would have to build

00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:06.679
them from a whole cloth. If you could even get

00:39:06.679 --> 00:39:09.199
the money. And if you could do it in the time

00:39:09.199 --> 00:39:11.679
necessary. Right. I mean, it was just not, it

00:39:11.679 --> 00:39:14.260
just were, it was frustrating to work on these

00:39:14.260 --> 00:39:16.019
bills because it did feel like you were sort

00:39:16.019 --> 00:39:19.760
of testifying against, you know, these aspirational

00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:22.679
hopes. Right. Of what was, you know, which I

00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:25.659
think at a base level, we would agree that we

00:39:25.659 --> 00:39:27.400
would, you know, we wanted to see more things

00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:29.780
move in this space. Sure. We wanted to see forward

00:39:29.780 --> 00:39:31.940
movement. But the reality is until you deal with

00:39:31.940 --> 00:39:33.219
something, we've talked about this a lot on these

00:39:33.219 --> 00:39:36.099
podcasts, And to my testimony multiple times

00:39:36.099 --> 00:39:39.179
on the Hill this session, you know, unless you

00:39:39.179 --> 00:39:40.539
were going to get back to dealing with some of

00:39:40.539 --> 00:39:43.199
the root reasons that got us to this point to

00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:45.679
begin with, you're not going to be able to just

00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:47.900
sort of gimmick your way out of this. And I think

00:39:47.900 --> 00:39:49.820
to some degree, a lot of these ideas were just

00:39:49.820 --> 00:39:51.920
gimmicky, not in the sense that I don't mean

00:39:51.920 --> 00:39:53.619
that to belittle them, but in the sense that

00:39:53.619 --> 00:39:56.639
they just weren't. realistic in terms of becoming

00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:59.219
without significant funding changes, without

00:39:59.219 --> 00:40:02.420
significant infrastructure changes, and they

00:40:02.420 --> 00:40:04.019
just weren't going to solve the issue. And so

00:40:04.019 --> 00:40:05.519
it's something we're going to have to continue

00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:07.179
to deal with. And the legislature, I don't think

00:40:07.179 --> 00:40:09.820
is going to, they're not going to be able to,

00:40:09.860 --> 00:40:12.079
this isn't the last that we're going to hear

00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:13.300
from this. I mean, they're going to have to.

00:40:13.880 --> 00:40:16.519
Until they're willing to look at increasing capacity,

00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:19.219
which is going to take capital money to do that.

00:40:20.019 --> 00:40:22.400
I'm really surprised they didn't make an investment

00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:25.260
in that. Me too. More than they have. Right.

00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:27.860
There were a lot of items in the budget dealing

00:40:27.860 --> 00:40:32.440
with those, whether it's Echo Glen or Green Hill

00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:33.920
or whatever it might have been. Yeah, but it

00:40:33.920 --> 00:40:35.539
feels like that stuff is really nibbling around

00:40:35.539 --> 00:40:37.260
the edges of a bigger problem. It is. HVAC systems

00:40:37.260 --> 00:40:39.920
and other stuff like that. I mean, the reality

00:40:39.920 --> 00:40:41.960
is they expanded the number of folks through

00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:44.780
legislation, through JR. to 25 who are eligible

00:40:44.780 --> 00:40:47.500
for these services. And at the same time, closed

00:40:47.500 --> 00:40:50.739
facilities, reducing capacity, reduce our capacity

00:40:50.739 --> 00:40:54.320
and and added to that, you know, poison pill

00:40:54.320 --> 00:40:58.300
of a significant rise in youth crime, you know.

00:40:58.360 --> 00:41:01.320
And so those three factors together have just

00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:03.920
created a real perfect storm that right now is

00:41:03.920 --> 00:41:07.000
is is not remedied. And it doesn't look like

00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:08.940
it will be anytime soon. It was a little frustrating,

00:41:09.139 --> 00:41:13.340
I have to say. And I was only. kind of a spectator

00:41:13.340 --> 00:41:15.920
right and just talking with you about these bills

00:41:15.920 --> 00:41:18.019
but it was a little it felt frustrating from

00:41:18.019 --> 00:41:19.739
my end so it must have been even more so from

00:41:19.739 --> 00:41:23.019
your end to deal with this during the session

00:41:23.019 --> 00:41:26.599
in a way that felt like the state was taking

00:41:26.599 --> 00:41:31.400
another bite at the apple shot at forcing us

00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:33.840
to take on more responsibility instead of what

00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:37.340
we agreed to during the interim which was okay

00:41:37.340 --> 00:41:39.900
this isn't going to work you know it's not going

00:41:39.900 --> 00:41:43.889
to work you did this sort of order right you

00:41:43.889 --> 00:41:45.769
know former director without even consulting

00:41:45.769 --> 00:41:49.210
with us right you know we filed a lawsuit we

00:41:49.210 --> 00:41:51.829
we basically just still yeah it's still active

00:41:51.829 --> 00:41:54.530
we basically just kind of put it on hold seeing

00:41:54.530 --> 00:41:56.150
what they were going to do yeah no settlement

00:41:56.150 --> 00:41:57.909
agreement but a tentative agreement with the

00:41:57.909 --> 00:41:59.489
governor that hey we're going to back off we're

00:41:59.489 --> 00:42:00.730
going to put you know we're going to pursue these

00:42:00.730 --> 00:42:05.610
other options etc and then you know to come back

00:42:05.610 --> 00:42:07.739
during the legislative session hope hope to work

00:42:07.739 --> 00:42:10.380
on those potential solutions, but instead, you

00:42:10.380 --> 00:42:13.539
know, fend off another assault, so to speak.

00:42:13.619 --> 00:42:15.699
That's right. And we spent most of our time,

00:42:15.739 --> 00:42:18.019
I think, to your point, fighting that instead

00:42:18.019 --> 00:42:20.619
of having the constructive conversations around

00:42:20.619 --> 00:42:22.260
what we could have done to actually try to fix

00:42:22.260 --> 00:42:24.260
this. Yeah. That was the disappointing and frustrating

00:42:24.260 --> 00:42:26.880
part. Were these bills, were the conversation

00:42:26.880 --> 00:42:29.659
around these bills being driven by the legislators

00:42:29.659 --> 00:42:31.960
themselves who were supporting these? Or do you

00:42:31.960 --> 00:42:34.900
think or suspect or know that the real driving

00:42:34.900 --> 00:42:38.760
force behind the bills was actually the administration

00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:41.679
or the department themselves? I think these were...

00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:44.880
That's a good question. I think maybe it's maybe

00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:48.639
a mix, but I do think primarily these were legislatively

00:42:48.639 --> 00:42:51.059
driven because I think they were ideologue -type

00:42:51.059 --> 00:42:55.360
bills, at least in my view. I think the administration

00:42:55.360 --> 00:42:57.360
– well, we have a new administration, right?

00:42:57.480 --> 00:42:59.340
And so they got caught, I think, a little flat

00:42:59.340 --> 00:43:01.159
-footed in trying to figure out how to deal with

00:43:01.159 --> 00:43:04.900
this. Well, and you have to say, I'm a new governor,

00:43:05.099 --> 00:43:08.000
right? Am I obligated to the deal the other governor

00:43:08.000 --> 00:43:11.949
made? Exactly, right. Probably not. No. I mean,

00:43:11.969 --> 00:43:16.190
I will say, I think the agency was particularly...

00:43:16.190 --> 00:43:19.210
And they have a new head as well. They do. But

00:43:19.210 --> 00:43:21.949
I think they made a particular point of trying

00:43:21.949 --> 00:43:24.269
to be as collaborative with us, I think, as possible.

00:43:24.389 --> 00:43:26.110
They provided a lot of good information during

00:43:26.110 --> 00:43:29.170
session, a lot of frank information. I think

00:43:29.170 --> 00:43:31.349
they worked it pretty hard. I think they were

00:43:31.349 --> 00:43:33.230
frustrated as to where those conversations were

00:43:33.230 --> 00:43:35.690
going as well. And I think they felt like they

00:43:35.690 --> 00:43:37.269
probably weren't going to get as far as they

00:43:37.269 --> 00:43:40.630
wanted to go. But I also don't think that the

00:43:40.630 --> 00:43:42.679
agency... agency is probably in the same spot

00:43:42.679 --> 00:43:44.820
as we are in terms of how we'd like to see the

00:43:44.820 --> 00:43:48.239
issue resolved either. So I, I do think we are

00:43:48.239 --> 00:43:51.019
also a bit just clashing in this, in terms of

00:43:51.019 --> 00:43:54.179
how we see this, what, what we view as potential

00:43:54.179 --> 00:43:56.760
solutions. And so that, that I think is going

00:43:56.760 --> 00:43:58.260
to be a longer term rub. Yeah. It's going to

00:43:58.260 --> 00:43:59.280
say, it sounds like it's going to take interim

00:43:59.280 --> 00:44:01.179
work, a lot more work to do. Yeah, there will

00:44:01.179 --> 00:44:04.360
be. Well, let's just briefly close by maybe touching

00:44:04.360 --> 00:44:07.139
on some budget highlights. Yeah. What, what do

00:44:07.139 --> 00:44:08.639
you think were big wins in the budget? Yeah.

00:44:08.639 --> 00:44:10.019
So certainly the a hundred million dollars was,

00:44:10.059 --> 00:44:12.260
It was a big win. I would say. A little unexpected,

00:44:12.579 --> 00:44:16.420
but a big win. I was glad to see that. Was very

00:44:16.420 --> 00:44:20.559
happy to see some budget investment in the behavioral

00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:22.840
health space as it relates to crisis facilities,

00:44:23.099 --> 00:44:25.659
particularly what they're calling crisis relief.

00:44:26.159 --> 00:44:28.679
facilities, but that's sort of code for 23 -hour

00:44:28.679 --> 00:44:30.340
facilities, which have become a real hot -button

00:44:30.340 --> 00:44:32.260
issue. And as sessions started, there were a

00:44:32.260 --> 00:44:33.960
number of news articles because they were sitting

00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:36.400
vacant. These buildings that had been built and

00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:38.559
a provider that was sitting there wanting to

00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:40.079
get in and do the work but couldn't because of

00:44:40.079 --> 00:44:42.679
funding. Yeah, age -old story. We can find funds

00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:44.860
for capital projects, but we can't find operating

00:44:44.860 --> 00:44:46.340
dollars. Well, that's right. And the operating

00:44:46.340 --> 00:44:48.699
dollars, unfortunately, I think both on the Medicaid

00:44:48.699 --> 00:44:50.539
and non -Medicaid side are going to be necessary

00:44:50.539 --> 00:44:52.639
to make these work. And that meant new investment.

00:44:52.780 --> 00:44:55.559
And that was the hard in a year when... Everybody

00:44:55.559 --> 00:44:59.079
was looking at reductions. So fortunately, we

00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:03.579
saw a $15 million investment. It's one time transferred

00:45:03.579 --> 00:45:07.980
from the 988 actual 988 tax account, which was

00:45:07.980 --> 00:45:10.019
kind of an interesting. interesting play, something

00:45:10.019 --> 00:45:12.019
I had kind of floated early on in session saying,

00:45:12.139 --> 00:45:15.219
hey, there's money here. But it's not a long

00:45:15.219 --> 00:45:17.239
-term solution. And it's certainly not enough

00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:19.980
money to solve all of those. It's going to be

00:45:19.980 --> 00:45:21.539
a grant that's going to be designed to kind of

00:45:21.539 --> 00:45:24.260
help three of these facilities. But there are

00:45:24.260 --> 00:45:26.980
a number more looking to get online. So it's

00:45:26.980 --> 00:45:29.199
a win, but it's a temporary one. And we'll have

00:45:29.199 --> 00:45:30.800
to see where the legislature wants to go long

00:45:30.800 --> 00:45:33.519
-term on that. But I was happy to see that. By

00:45:33.519 --> 00:45:36.159
and large, I think where this counts as a win,

00:45:36.199 --> 00:45:39.650
at least in my book, is We were able to blunt

00:45:39.650 --> 00:45:46.349
largely reductions that would have been particularly

00:45:46.349 --> 00:45:49.309
painful. I think for the most part, most of the

00:45:49.309 --> 00:45:51.409
reductions in the behavioral health space or

00:45:51.409 --> 00:45:53.170
even in the – really weren't any reductions in

00:45:53.170 --> 00:45:56.000
the public safety space, but in the – behavioral

00:45:56.000 --> 00:45:59.039
health space primarily, we're in that 5%, 10

00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:01.340
% kind of range, things that, you know, it's

00:46:01.340 --> 00:46:03.280
not ideal, but it's not something that's going

00:46:03.280 --> 00:46:05.920
to gut a program or, you know, and I think there

00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:08.760
were other levers that the budget, you know,

00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:11.570
sort of granted that allowed. ways to backfill

00:46:11.570 --> 00:46:13.090
some of that, including like we talked about

00:46:13.090 --> 00:46:14.769
local options and things like that, that were

00:46:14.769 --> 00:46:17.489
out there. So I think, I think a lot, largely

00:46:17.489 --> 00:46:19.949
a lot of these programs can, can maintain and

00:46:19.949 --> 00:46:22.750
be just fine. Obviously the recovery navigator

00:46:22.750 --> 00:46:24.750
program was a, was one that we were worried about.

00:46:25.389 --> 00:46:27.789
One, the Senate budget had completely eliminated

00:46:27.789 --> 00:46:31.570
that $50 million program that a lot of counties

00:46:31.570 --> 00:46:33.409
have spent a lot of time and money building up

00:46:33.409 --> 00:46:35.610
over the last several years. It finished with

00:46:35.610 --> 00:46:38.530
a 20 % reduction, which was 10 % more than, than

00:46:38.530 --> 00:46:40.260
what the house had initially put out there. but

00:46:40.260 --> 00:46:42.880
a far cry from total elimination. And like I

00:46:42.880 --> 00:46:45.239
said, RMP got included as something that was

00:46:45.239 --> 00:46:49.460
an allowable use from the 2015 dollars, both

00:46:49.460 --> 00:46:52.719
in terms of the grant and the tax. Yeah. If that

00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:55.099
gap exists for some jurisdictions, they'll be

00:46:55.099 --> 00:46:56.679
able to use those dollars. And it surely will.

00:46:56.860 --> 00:46:57.920
Yeah, because many of them. There'll be a pain

00:46:57.920 --> 00:46:59.500
point there. Yeah, they definitely built their

00:46:59.500 --> 00:47:01.400
systems using those grant funds. And a lot of

00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:04.760
times those programs weren't operating. I mean,

00:47:04.780 --> 00:47:06.380
they weren't operating on state dollars alone

00:47:06.380 --> 00:47:09.469
anyways. So, you know, it's just going to. some

00:47:09.469 --> 00:47:11.190
additional pressure there. But it definitely

00:47:11.190 --> 00:47:13.650
was a far cry from where it could have gone.

00:47:13.889 --> 00:47:15.650
And frankly, where I expected. I mean, even the

00:47:15.650 --> 00:47:17.809
governor's office had weighed in and sort of

00:47:17.809 --> 00:47:20.170
advocated for a 50 % reduction, which is when

00:47:20.170 --> 00:47:21.969
I started to get a little more worried. Because

00:47:21.969 --> 00:47:23.889
I didn't think the elimination was going to happen.

00:47:23.929 --> 00:47:25.829
But the 50%, when they kind of came in, I went,

00:47:25.889 --> 00:47:27.769
oh, that'll be rough. That would have been a

00:47:27.769 --> 00:47:29.590
hard one for, I think, a lot of systems to absorb.

00:47:29.829 --> 00:47:32.510
So I count it as a win that we got out of here

00:47:32.510 --> 00:47:36.190
with a bit of a haircut, but not, you know. Bald.

00:47:36.190 --> 00:47:39.869
Well. No, no, no. When you're going in for a

00:47:39.869 --> 00:47:41.809
haircut to come out bald is never a good idea

00:47:41.809 --> 00:47:44.449
unless you're going in for a total shave. Overall.

00:47:46.610 --> 00:47:50.750
Frankly, I think there's only one way to assess

00:47:50.750 --> 00:47:53.449
the budget outcomes, and that's remarkable. I

00:47:53.449 --> 00:47:56.989
would agree. I've talked about this with others,

00:47:57.030 --> 00:47:59.230
and I certainly talked about it when I did a

00:47:59.230 --> 00:48:01.710
deeper dive in an earlier podcast with Brian

00:48:01.710 --> 00:48:05.050
that I mentioned. In past years when we've seen...

00:48:05.449 --> 00:48:08.789
fiscal challenges like this for the state, typically

00:48:08.789 --> 00:48:11.610
local governments have been a target. Yes. And

00:48:11.610 --> 00:48:13.889
by a target, I mean they have stripped funding.

00:48:14.150 --> 00:48:17.150
Yes. Almost. They've seen us as a way to balance

00:48:17.150 --> 00:48:20.269
their budget. Yeah. I mean, relentless, you know,

00:48:20.269 --> 00:48:25.030
without much. And I don't mean they didn't think

00:48:25.030 --> 00:48:28.010
about it. I mean, they just prioritize their

00:48:28.010 --> 00:48:30.690
needs over ours. Tale as old as time. Yeah. And

00:48:30.690 --> 00:48:33.469
that was very different this year. Very much.

00:48:33.829 --> 00:48:37.269
You know, there's a lot more acknowledgement

00:48:37.269 --> 00:48:39.789
in these budgets, I think, of the work that local

00:48:39.789 --> 00:48:41.630
governments do on behalf of the state. That's

00:48:41.630 --> 00:48:43.449
right. And how important these programs are for

00:48:43.449 --> 00:48:47.039
implementing the policies that the state. approves

00:48:47.039 --> 00:48:50.300
and, you know, envisions and wants to see taking

00:48:50.300 --> 00:48:52.300
place in communities. And just the difference

00:48:52.300 --> 00:48:54.099
between, you know, what we're experiencing now

00:48:54.099 --> 00:48:56.480
and what we experienced, you know, nearly 20

00:48:56.480 --> 00:48:58.780
years ago during the great recession is, is night

00:48:58.780 --> 00:49:02.440
and day. Yeah. And I mean, I made a point as

00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:05.679
soon as I've had to kind of fully. you know,

00:49:05.679 --> 00:49:08.800
or partially digested where I think the budget

00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:11.139
landed, I made sure of reaching out to the budget

00:49:11.139 --> 00:49:14.880
chairs in both chambers to say thank you because

00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:17.260
it really, A, I don't think they get a lot of

00:49:17.260 --> 00:49:19.239
that, but it takes a tremendous amount of work

00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:21.260
to do that. But they really did do something,

00:49:21.320 --> 00:49:23.559
I think, the word I used was thoughtful. They

00:49:23.559 --> 00:49:25.179
were thoughtful budgets. I mean, I think they

00:49:25.179 --> 00:49:27.699
recognized they had issues and they had to deal

00:49:27.699 --> 00:49:29.940
with them and not everybody had to feel a little

00:49:29.940 --> 00:49:32.199
pain, I think, and they spread that pain out.

00:49:32.280 --> 00:49:34.780
But at tolerable levels. But at a level. But

00:49:34.780 --> 00:49:36.820
that's what I think by by spreading it out, they

00:49:36.820 --> 00:49:38.739
were able to do that in a way that they didn't

00:49:38.739 --> 00:49:41.300
have to just come in and gut programs and really

00:49:41.300 --> 00:49:43.719
make one one group or which traditionally, to

00:49:43.719 --> 00:49:46.619
your point, might have been us. Well, past probably

00:49:46.619 --> 00:49:49.440
would have been right. Let's be honest. And even

00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:51.260
though they preserve us in a lot of ways. Yeah.

00:49:51.280 --> 00:49:53.099
And even though they spread it out, they spread

00:49:53.099 --> 00:49:55.820
it out in a way that. I think stealing your word

00:49:55.820 --> 00:49:57.860
was thoughtful. It wasn't just a, we're just

00:49:57.860 --> 00:50:00.500
doing an across the board reduction. No, everybody's

00:50:00.500 --> 00:50:02.159
going to share the pain equally. It was like,

00:50:02.179 --> 00:50:05.280
you know, it really was a, okay, where strategically

00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:08.360
can we, you know, do a little push, do a little

00:50:08.360 --> 00:50:10.960
pull to get where we want to be and still move

00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:13.369
forward. I mean, they're, There are significant

00:50:13.369 --> 00:50:16.650
new investments in this budget along with cost

00:50:16.650 --> 00:50:20.170
cuts. Exactly. There were investments, significant

00:50:20.170 --> 00:50:22.489
investments in areas that really needed them.

00:50:22.630 --> 00:50:26.909
And they did a lot. I think they're much different

00:50:26.909 --> 00:50:31.050
than budgets. And again, Brian, my colleague,

00:50:31.289 --> 00:50:33.050
I give him a lot of credit in this space. He

00:50:33.050 --> 00:50:35.170
can talk you through all of this. But at least

00:50:35.170 --> 00:50:37.869
from my less knowledgeable vantage point on some

00:50:37.869 --> 00:50:40.449
of this, they had levers that they could pull.

00:50:40.570 --> 00:50:42.909
They did things like reducing. eligibility or

00:50:42.909 --> 00:50:44.809
doing some of these things that allowed them

00:50:44.809 --> 00:50:47.329
to skirt around having to really make draconian

00:50:47.329 --> 00:50:50.289
cuts and stuff yeah and they did program by program

00:50:50.289 --> 00:50:52.289
analysis right some programs they looked and

00:50:52.289 --> 00:50:54.170
went okay five percent here right you know eight

00:50:54.170 --> 00:50:56.170
percent here ten percent here twenty percent

00:50:56.170 --> 00:50:58.110
i mean they didn't just like you say they didn't

00:50:58.110 --> 00:51:00.030
just do okay everybody's a you know this is a

00:51:00.030 --> 00:51:02.210
thirty percent cut across the board which is

00:51:02.210 --> 00:51:04.449
easy that would have been much easier to do much

00:51:04.449 --> 00:51:06.769
easier um but would have had a much worse outcome

00:51:06.769 --> 00:51:08.550
and so much less effective a hundred percent

00:51:08.550 --> 00:51:10.909
yeah so i really do think like i said i think

00:51:10.909 --> 00:51:12.400
the Awful is the word. I think they worked hard

00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:15.039
on it. I think they got good agreement. And frankly,

00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:17.800
I think they agreed on it. And with a new governor

00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:20.579
who was asking for his own new things, it could

00:51:20.579 --> 00:51:21.960
have been. I mean, they certainly had revenue

00:51:21.960 --> 00:51:24.380
that they wanted to get passed to make this work.

00:51:24.519 --> 00:51:26.760
But yeah, I agree with you 100%. I mean, we came

00:51:26.760 --> 00:51:29.780
out of session remarkably well, all things considered.

00:51:29.980 --> 00:51:32.159
Well, Brad, congratulations on a successful session.

00:51:32.380 --> 00:51:34.420
I really appreciate the opportunity to work with

00:51:34.420 --> 00:51:36.500
you guys this session and looking forward to

00:51:36.500 --> 00:51:38.760
some more months together. Yeah, I was going

00:51:38.760 --> 00:51:40.619
to say, don't go anywhere. No, I'm not. This

00:51:40.619 --> 00:51:43.139
is a pleasure. And yeah, we'll get them. We'll

00:51:43.139 --> 00:51:44.599
get more good stuff done. All right. We'll talk

00:51:44.599 --> 00:51:48.559
to you. Thanks, Paul. Thanks for tuning in to

00:51:48.559 --> 00:51:50.800
County Connection. Stay in the loop by subscribing

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