WEBVTT

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You know what makes Travis so furious? Having

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to move a raspberry to get to a strawberry. Or

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a godforsaken blueberry. I also love the fact

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that I hate paying for these because they just

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grow. We get 20 pounds of them in our neighborhood

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over the summer and I hate buying them. They're

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delicious though. They're so good. Especially

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when it's warm outside. You go pick and they're

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hot and then you go home and you make some...

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Crumble or crisp or cobbler. Or whatever. I guess

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it depends on where the crust is. Yeah, pick

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one of them. They're all delicious. Yeah. Welcome

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to County Connection. the official podcast of

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the Washington State Association of Counties,

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where we dive into the legislative issues shaping

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the future of our communities. From budgets to

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public safety, infrastructure to elections, we'll

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break down what's happening in Olympia and how

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it impacts counties from across the Evergreen

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State. Stay informed, stay engaged, and join

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us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39

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counties. Welcome back, everybody, to the County

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Connection podcast. I'm Paul Jewell, your...

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host and government relations director for the

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Washington State Association of Counties here

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in Olympia. It's day 102 of a 105 -day legislative

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session. But of course, at WASAC, we don't count

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the days. We make the days count. Speaking of

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making the days count, Travis, how are you? I

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thought there were two days left. The fact that

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there's three days left is slightly terrifying.

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So I lost a day in there somewhere. But otherwise,

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I'm doing very, very well. It's always disturbing

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to find out when you've lost a day. That's for

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sure. Right. Today's Thursday, though. At least

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I know that. Today's Thursday. I just didn't

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count. I didn't use my fingers. It's Thursday

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at about 1130, actually, just to put a timestamp

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on it for everybody. All right. OK, perfect.

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And we're almost at the end, Travis. So hang

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on. Hang on. Stay with us. Three more days. Three

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more days to go. How are things? Things are good.

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You can definitely feel some winding down. How

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many sessions is this for you now as a staff

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member at WASAC? This will be my third session

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as a WASAC staff member. Okay. All right. So

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this is your second long session then because

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you did a long session, a short session, and

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now another long session. Yeah. Yes. Okay. And

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how is this one compared to the previous? I don't

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know that I can make a really good comparison

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because that first one, everything was... unfamiliar

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and new right from the perspective of nothing

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was familiar and i think that this one having

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heard a lot of veterans that have experienced

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many long sessions talk about this one also feeling

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significantly different than previous sessions

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it just sort of felt like a short session that

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was stretched out as far as like intensity um

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number of bills just um the amount of work that

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went into to getting this stuff done felt had

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the same urgency but just lasted twice as the

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same urgency as a short session but lasted longer

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so yeah you know the long sessions tend to kind

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of ramp up more slowly right and there's more

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time to evaluate bills and there's more time

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to do the analysis and talk to people and whatnot

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but this one really started like and I think

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we talked about this at the beginning when we

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were doing some of these podcasts, this one really

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started with a bang, like right out of the gate,

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like everybody just started sprinting instead

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of, you know, that kind of warmup that we normally

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see. It was just like, bang, off we go, just

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like a short session. And it's really held its

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intensity all the way through until now. Yeah.

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I mean, I feel like there were more, you know,

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in my subject areas, there were more bills pre

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-filed before session even started. Then I think

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I had seen in those areas for a whole session

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before and, you know, focusing on garbage recycling,

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that kind of thing. Like there were a lot of

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them, um, and they came out very quickly and

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they, they seem to move very quickly on hearings

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and, and, you know, right out the gate kind of

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jumping in on some of these things. Um, so yeah,

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that feels like it was just, you hit the ground

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at a full sprint. So, well, at a day, 102 of,

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of 105 days, we passed all of our. uh thresholds

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all of our cutoffs so to speak we've been through

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you know the house of origin cutoffs we've been

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through the opposite house cutoffs the legislature

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is working right now. They're doing what's called

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concurrence. So they're looking at the bills

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that, you know, started in one chamber and finished

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in the other chamber and had some changes in

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the, you know, through the process. And they're

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trying to come together to say, okay, we accept

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the changes or we don't. And, you know, if we

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don't, can we conference and figure that out,

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et cetera. Bills can still die during that process,

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but it's much more rare, you know, if it's made

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it through the... the full legislature at this

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point, there's a really good chance that it's

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going to be signed into law. And since we're,

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you know, this is the kind of, this is kind of

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the time of year where we don't have a lot to

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do right now from an urgency standpoint, other

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than just watching, paying attention to what's

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going on and then waiting for budgets. So let's

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talk about, since it's really just the budget

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that we're waiting for and most of the policy

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stuff is done, let's talk about what you saw

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this year in policy bills. Where would you like

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to start? You know, I think just because it's

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been where my head has been at the last couple

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of weeks, I think just starting in some of the

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solid waste and recycling bills would be, I think,

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a good place to start. Plus, that's informing

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a good portion of what... interim work i'll be

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doing with our solid waste folks well we just

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did a breaking news podcast about two weeks ago

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maybe on a solid waste bill that was the extended

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producer responsibility bill right yeah which

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i guess would be old news now but it was breaking

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news at the time right yeah that was that epr

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bill is one that's going to take up a lot of

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our attention and time over the next definitely

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over the next interim but likely over the next

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just remind us what that bill does again um it

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creates a program that uh requires the producers

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of packaging and paper products to be responsible

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for collecting, transporting, processing and

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recycling the things that we buy. It'll use the

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existing system. Producers will be required to

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build that out, hopefully increase the amount

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of things that are recyclable, increase the amount

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of things that get recycled, and increase the

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amount of things that are made out of recycled

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products. And in theory, they're supposed to

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pay for that, right? So instead of people paying

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for recycling like they do now through curbside,

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through their monthly bill, et cetera, it's going

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to be these producers of these. packaging products

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and paper products that actually have the responsibility

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for the system, for paying for the system, et

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cetera. Now, of course, we all know what happens

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to increased costs associated with manufacturing

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and product packaging. They end up being placed

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upon the consumer in a different way, usually

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through the purchase of that product. But it's

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really just kind of moving the money around.

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I don't want to go into a ton of detail about

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that one because there's like a whole half hour,

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45 minutes that people can listen to if they

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want to tune in on that one. But anything else

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to say about that one before we move on to others?

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Just that it's going to be a long road to get

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there. And when I say long road, I guess it doesn't

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start until 2030. And there's just a lot of work

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that needs to be done. There's needs assessments.

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There's helping counties understand what their

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options are and how to participate. It's making

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sure that all the data is there. As we shared

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in the other podcast, this bill has been, this

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might be the fourth or fifth year. I can't remember

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where we landed, but it's going to be another

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four to five years of working on it and making

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sure that everything's in place. And a lot of

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big projects. So, yeah, so that's just all I'll

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add is that there's just a lot of real work that

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starts now before the program even is rolled

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out. Well, what other solid waste bills did you

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work on and what were the outcomes? You know,

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on the vein of extended producer responsibility

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bills, there were a few that were introduced

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related to some products that are more difficult

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to handle or recycle. Like there was a bill that

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came out that would have developed an extended

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producer responsibility bill. an extended producer

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responsibility bill for mattresses, which are

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a big problem. They're bulky. They're difficult

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to tear apart to get their materials. They're

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often what? is amongst illegally dumped items

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um especially in multi -family complexes well

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when you talk about a landfill like you said

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they're big and they're bulky they also don't

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compact very well because there's usually some

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kind of spring or something in there it's like

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it's part of their marketing is how springy and

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non -compacting they are so yeah that's how they

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that's how you get a mattress that's more durable

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um you know Some sort of product responsibility

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or EPR program for mattresses has been discussed

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for a while. Is this the first time we've seen

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a bill? Was this the first year we've seen the

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bill or did we see it previously? I don't believe

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I've seen it previously. I wouldn't be surprised

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if there have been efforts. I know that there's

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been efforts in Washington to address this problem.

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similar legislation in Oregon, but I don't know

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if it had been introduced here, but this was

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the first year that I saw it. And it was sort

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of introduced as a new topic to begin to think

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about and likely something that will pass in

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the next interim. It did not make it out of the

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House where it was introduced. Okay. So this

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one failed. Yes. But you expect to see it again?

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I would expect to. I know that the intent was

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to introduce it now and really work on it. And

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this would be a good one because it's something

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that is difficult for county solid waste programs

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to manage. It's really hard for people to get

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rid of these mattresses. And so having some type

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of formal program with some investment or accountability

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from the producers, again, would be very helpful

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because right now they're just a huge problem

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and are just getting landfilled in a lot of places.

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You know, these EPR bills or these extended producer

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responsibility bills are... product stewardship

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bills. We seem to have a theme, I guess, and

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maybe that's not the right word, but they definitely

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seem to be a trend, right? In recent years, we've

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seen... Paint. What was that one called? I would

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have remembered it as soon as... What was the

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name of the program? Paint Care. Yeah, Paint

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Care. Paint Care, wow. Yeah, that one was considered

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for at least two or three years before it got

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passed. We've had batteries. Light bulbs have

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been in place for a long time. Electronics for

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a long time. But we've also seen recently...

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And I guess this isn't really a... an EPR program,

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but these right to repair bills for things like

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small electronics, like cell phones or computers,

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a lot of these companies like Apple, right? They

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like to be, maybe I shouldn't call out a company

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by name, but a lot of these electronics companies,

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they'd like to be really proprietary on, you

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know, not only who can fix their stuff, but how

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you actually can get into their stuff. You know,

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you gotta have the right tool that might be specialized.

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You have to ask. you know, specialized training

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and be certified, that sort of thing. There have

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been a lot of bills that have been... trying

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to make it easier for just regular repair shops

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to get that certification or even for consumers

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to be able to get a hold of the tools or equipment

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that they need to repair the stuff themselves.

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And we've seen those bills for a couple of years.

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Did any progress get made on those this year?

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Yes. This year's version of the right to repair

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bill, which would require parts to be available

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for businesses that repair phones and plans and

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schematics. Did pass. Oh, it did. Yeah, that

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did pass this year. The number escapes me off

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the top of my head, but that bill passed. But

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that one is definitely something that had come

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up the three years, in all three of my sessions,

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that's been a topic. A lot of it was a lot of

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the challenges were around, you know, these companies

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make money because their products are unique

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and their products are theirs. And so just to

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be able to protect both, you know, to be able

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to protect people's personal debt on the phone,

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to be able to protect that businesses right to

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their unique products. But really, the ultimate

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goal is just to, you know, extend the life of

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these products. Or even if I break my phone and

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I just don't want to go through the process of

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repairing it. Somebody could repair that phone

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and that could go to a program that provides

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phones to other people as well. Sure, it could

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be reused. So there's quite a few benefits there.

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But I think, you know, the primary one being.

00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:31.360
fewer turnover in electronic devices is a benefit

00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.399
for multiple reasons. Are there any other EPR

00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:36.419
type programs or product stewardship programs

00:12:36.419 --> 00:12:38.980
that have been considered or that passed this

00:12:38.980 --> 00:12:41.580
year? No others that passed. There was another

00:12:41.580 --> 00:12:45.259
one that was considered around clothing and textiles.

00:12:45.259 --> 00:12:48.580
So the fast fashion industry, there's a pretty

00:12:48.580 --> 00:12:53.950
growing issue in the amount of... clothing that

00:12:53.950 --> 00:12:56.809
is produced around the world um and is intended

00:12:56.809 --> 00:13:01.509
to be used a couple of times um and then discarded

00:13:01.509 --> 00:13:05.669
um and uh the ability for what type of clothing

00:13:05.669 --> 00:13:08.149
is that i don't want to use brand names but um

00:13:08.149 --> 00:13:11.289
okay wherever you would go for i don't want to

00:13:11.289 --> 00:13:13.710
say this rudely like cheap clothing like i'm

00:13:13.710 --> 00:13:14.990
thinking like pretty much anything you would

00:13:14.990 --> 00:13:17.049
buy on amazon anything you would buy on timu

00:13:17.049 --> 00:13:20.090
anything you would buy on like i mean like it

00:13:20.090 --> 00:13:22.289
covers everything like i can go on amazon and

00:13:22.289 --> 00:13:24.799
buy like 10 Calvin Klein white button up dress

00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:27.379
shirts for 20 bucks. Wow. They're not going to

00:13:27.379 --> 00:13:29.559
last. Yeah. I don't really know what's in them.

00:13:29.980 --> 00:13:32.480
And they're not going to survive me donating

00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:34.960
and, you know, moving. They're going to fall

00:13:34.960 --> 00:13:36.600
apart pretty quickly. So it'd just be like cheap

00:13:36.600 --> 00:13:38.799
clothing that is not intended for long -term

00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:42.460
use. It's more about making something that's

00:13:42.460 --> 00:13:44.659
cheap and accessible to people who want something

00:13:44.659 --> 00:13:47.220
and can't get the more expensive version. That's

00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:49.179
interesting because when I saw this bill, I thought,

00:13:49.200 --> 00:13:52.799
why do we need? You know, why do we need some

00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:55.860
sort of EPR program for textiles? We have all

00:13:55.860 --> 00:13:58.279
kinds of things like clothing banks and secondhand

00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:02.000
stores and vintage shops and consignment shops,

00:14:02.259 --> 00:14:07.220
right, where people can take those. and places

00:14:07.220 --> 00:14:09.860
to just donate as well, right? Where they can

00:14:09.860 --> 00:14:11.840
take those items and they can find a new home

00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:14.279
and get reused. I mean, clothing is always the

00:14:14.279 --> 00:14:16.200
biggest item at a garage sale, for instance.

00:14:16.899 --> 00:14:21.200
And sometimes that vintage wear that I was wearing

00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:24.659
in high school becomes the coolest, hottest thing

00:14:24.659 --> 00:14:27.820
for teenagers. And it's more, in some cases,

00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:30.860
it's... worth more than i even paid for it you

00:14:30.860 --> 00:14:34.139
know back in the 1990s or or late 80s here see

00:14:34.139 --> 00:14:36.919
now i'm you know people you're dating yourself

00:14:36.919 --> 00:14:39.840
yeah they can do the math um you also said you

00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:42.200
were 50 a little bit ago easy oh sorry easy that

00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:45.519
was before we started the podcast and now you've

00:14:45.519 --> 00:14:48.320
oh no i can say how old i am if that helps i

00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:50.600
don't think people it doesn't no because there's

00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:52.639
too much of a gap between you and me it's gonna

00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:55.730
make me feel worse Let's move on. You have successfully

00:14:55.730 --> 00:14:58.629
derailed the podcast. We need to get back to

00:14:58.629 --> 00:15:03.309
where we were. So you're close. You know, I think

00:15:03.309 --> 00:15:05.649
about this too in my own life where it's very

00:15:05.649 --> 00:15:08.990
easy to, you know, I don't want to get too crazy

00:15:08.990 --> 00:15:11.230
here, but like just consumer culture and the

00:15:11.230 --> 00:15:13.230
idea of just always wanting something new and

00:15:13.230 --> 00:15:15.789
how quickly something you have. is no longer

00:15:15.789 --> 00:15:18.370
cool even if it was paul's cool clothes from

00:15:18.370 --> 00:15:20.710
the 80s like there's always something new and

00:15:20.710 --> 00:15:22.450
i always think back to like thank you for saying

00:15:22.450 --> 00:15:24.710
that paul's cool clothes from the 80s i like

00:15:24.710 --> 00:15:26.629
it even just this concept of and i don't expect

00:15:26.629 --> 00:15:28.330
this to go into the podcast but even just this

00:15:28.330 --> 00:15:30.190
concept of like oh it's going there are fewer

00:15:30.190 --> 00:15:32.669
closets in houses that are older than there are

00:15:32.669 --> 00:15:35.309
today and it's because like we didn't have as

00:15:35.309 --> 00:15:37.549
many outfits like we had you know yeah that's

00:15:37.549 --> 00:15:39.759
true right That's true. I mean, I don't know

00:15:39.759 --> 00:15:41.840
how many suits you got, like a suit for every

00:15:41.840 --> 00:15:44.480
day for two weeks or something like that. I don't

00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:46.679
know if that's true or not. At this point, it

00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.559
is, yeah. But people just had three professional

00:15:49.559 --> 00:15:52.379
outfits. They smelled awful, but they just wore

00:15:52.379 --> 00:15:54.000
those three outfits. Well, you had one pair of

00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:55.840
dress shoes if you were lucky, right? One pair

00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:58.200
of regular shoes and a pair of maybe work shoes,

00:15:58.220 --> 00:16:00.440
like work boots or something like that. When

00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:02.320
I was a kid, I had one pair of shoes. Right.

00:16:02.500 --> 00:16:05.100
Just one. That's it. Just one shoe or one pair

00:16:05.100 --> 00:16:08.399
of shoes? No. Thankfully, we had both sides,

00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:11.980
a left and a right. But we certainly didn't have

00:16:11.980 --> 00:16:14.179
multiple pairs. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's not

00:16:14.179 --> 00:16:15.759
a thing. Yeah, I didn't have, you know, I've

00:16:15.759 --> 00:16:18.200
got four pairs of dress shoes in my office. That's

00:16:18.200 --> 00:16:21.039
not something that. And it's ridiculous. I will

00:16:21.039 --> 00:16:24.700
say it's ridiculous. But yeah, but I think I'd

00:16:24.700 --> 00:16:26.360
learned that too when we were house shopping

00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:28.240
and like these newer houses have like massive

00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:30.360
amounts of closets because we own so many more

00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:33.200
pieces of clothing now. But also like the fashion

00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.340
changes so quickly or the desire to, you know,

00:16:36.340 --> 00:16:40.240
have new. and new clothes that are cool. And

00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:42.500
the old ones go, I was talking to the, there's

00:16:42.500 --> 00:16:45.539
a company, it's the, there's a nonprofit that

00:16:45.539 --> 00:16:48.259
I was talking to a couple of weeks ago to kind

00:16:48.259 --> 00:16:50.019
of understand a little bit more about this clothing.

00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:53.299
And they're housed in Ghana, which was, I've

00:16:53.299 --> 00:16:55.039
never talked to somebody in Ghana before. So

00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:57.200
that was very cool. South America. It's in Africa.

00:16:57.980 --> 00:16:59.860
I knew that. I was just messing with you. It's

00:16:59.860 --> 00:17:07.259
where U2's from. U2's from Ghana. You had me

00:17:07.259 --> 00:17:08.720
for a second. I was like, wait a second. I've

00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:10.079
been thinking it was in Africa this whole time.

00:17:12.509 --> 00:17:14.670
I'm more certain about werewolves being in Twilight

00:17:14.670 --> 00:17:16.490
than I am that Ghana is. No, it's in Africa.

00:17:16.609 --> 00:17:18.009
Yeah, I know. I was just ripping off of that

00:17:18.009 --> 00:17:23.170
joke on our last podcast. You gave me a good

00:17:23.170 --> 00:17:26.289
look on that one. Yeah, you had me for a second.

00:17:26.369 --> 00:17:30.309
I was like, oh, no. But they shared that Ghana

00:17:30.309 --> 00:17:33.049
has one of the world's largest secondhand clothing,

00:17:33.089 --> 00:17:34.930
where a lot of the clothing that gets donated

00:17:34.930 --> 00:17:37.309
here in the US, what they shared with me, and

00:17:37.309 --> 00:17:38.869
I haven't vetted these facts, but what they shared

00:17:38.869 --> 00:17:41.799
with me was that 10 % of the clothing that gets

00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:45.279
donated to your local donation location gets

00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:48.000
put out on the shelves. Everything else gets

00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:52.740
sent to waste or repurposing. So if you're sending

00:17:52.740 --> 00:17:56.279
something to a clothing to some sort of... If

00:17:56.279 --> 00:17:58.000
I'm dropping them off at the place down the street

00:17:58.000 --> 00:17:59.859
where I'm also dropping off my picture frames

00:17:59.859 --> 00:18:02.900
or whatever, they're sorting through that and

00:18:02.900 --> 00:18:05.240
they're only keeping 10 % of the best stuff?

00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:06.900
That's what they told me. That's what I was told.

00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:08.619
That the amount of clothing that's going into

00:18:08.619 --> 00:18:11.289
this facility, 10 % is getting put back out.

00:18:11.329 --> 00:18:13.970
The rest of it goes someplace jumped somewhere

00:18:13.970 --> 00:18:15.910
else. And oftentimes what I've been learning

00:18:15.910 --> 00:18:18.130
is that it's bailed and then it's sent to the

00:18:18.130 --> 00:18:22.049
secondhand markets where, you know, they, they

00:18:22.049 --> 00:18:25.170
employ people to transport the bales, take what

00:18:25.170 --> 00:18:27.869
clothing they can reassemble them into new clothing.

00:18:28.410 --> 00:18:30.569
But they process these clothing and it's this

00:18:30.569 --> 00:18:33.750
massive. facility in Ghana where, you know, all

00:18:33.750 --> 00:18:36.670
of these clothes are shipped and people are responsible

00:18:36.670 --> 00:18:38.470
at sifting through all of those things. How do

00:18:38.470 --> 00:18:40.809
they process it? Do they make, do they break

00:18:40.809 --> 00:18:43.170
down the fabrics and the fibers and make new

00:18:43.170 --> 00:18:45.769
fabrics and fibers? Or do they just reuse the

00:18:45.769 --> 00:18:49.109
good portions of, are they literally cutting

00:18:49.109 --> 00:18:51.329
around the bad stuff and then somehow piecing

00:18:51.329 --> 00:18:53.690
things together? I think it's both. Like I said,

00:18:53.789 --> 00:18:57.230
I'm talking to these folks to help gather more

00:18:57.230 --> 00:18:59.250
information and potentially put these in front

00:18:59.250 --> 00:19:01.890
of our solid waste managers. in the coming year

00:19:01.890 --> 00:19:04.269
to help us understand like, why do we need clothing

00:19:04.269 --> 00:19:06.730
EPR and what's the impact of having it versus

00:19:06.730 --> 00:19:09.130
not having it? And what's, what's the deal with

00:19:09.130 --> 00:19:10.990
clothing EPR? Like, you know, kind of figuring

00:19:10.990 --> 00:19:13.890
that out. But, but what they showed me were some

00:19:13.890 --> 00:19:16.869
photographs in their slides around, like sometimes

00:19:16.869 --> 00:19:19.950
it is like they are able to find similar fabrics

00:19:19.950 --> 00:19:22.250
and patch or repair clothing that's damaged or

00:19:22.250 --> 00:19:24.829
literally cutting things up using the good portions

00:19:24.829 --> 00:19:27.829
of fabric to create new outfits or new pieces

00:19:27.829 --> 00:19:29.769
of clothing. But I had no idea that was going

00:19:29.769 --> 00:19:33.309
on. They're wearing these 50 -pound bales of

00:19:33.309 --> 00:19:35.650
clothing around on their heads, and they're walking

00:19:35.650 --> 00:19:38.630
from home to these factories and these places

00:19:38.630 --> 00:19:41.670
where they're... So it's just this massive...

00:19:41.670 --> 00:19:43.670
And even they're not saving 100 % of the clothing.

00:19:43.910 --> 00:19:46.029
There's still a significant amount of waste that

00:19:46.029 --> 00:19:48.289
goes into that. So is that what this clothing

00:19:48.289 --> 00:19:50.470
and textiles bill would have done is somehow

00:19:50.470 --> 00:19:54.849
created more of that? Or did it change it to

00:19:54.849 --> 00:19:57.819
a different model? I think similar to... Our

00:19:57.819 --> 00:20:02.680
recycling crisis that we had in the – was it

00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:05.279
2000 and – when was the National Sword? The China

00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:07.380
Sword. Yeah, the National Sword campaign. Yeah,

00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:11.880
that was in 2018, 2019, 2020. Yeah. So I think

00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:16.099
just like the recycling crisis we had when countries

00:20:16.099 --> 00:20:18.079
overseas were telling us, we're no longer taking

00:20:18.079 --> 00:20:20.299
your recyclables because – That was mostly a

00:20:20.299 --> 00:20:22.519
contamination issue, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I

00:20:22.519 --> 00:20:25.039
think that what's happening here is that we're

00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:28.000
sending these products elsewhere. They're taking

00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:30.440
care of what they can. And then they're now responsible

00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:33.579
for disposal. And they're dealing with the litter.

00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.559
And they're dealing with the impacts of having

00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:38.880
to process all that clothing. So I think the

00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:41.839
idea is to be able to, this is a, it's a very,

00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:44.700
it's an important function to have to take and

00:20:44.700 --> 00:20:48.900
repair clothing. But I think the bill would.

00:20:49.470 --> 00:20:53.109
require producers of clothing, especially fast

00:20:53.109 --> 00:20:56.710
fashion, to create programs to get the clothing

00:20:56.710 --> 00:21:00.269
that's disposed of that they make to facilities

00:21:00.269 --> 00:21:04.250
like this or maybe ones that are more socially

00:21:04.250 --> 00:21:08.339
and environmentally. friendly and ultimately

00:21:08.339 --> 00:21:11.339
make sure that that clothing that can't be repaired

00:21:11.339 --> 00:21:15.000
isn't landfilled or littered or et cetera. One

00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:16.920
of the real attractions to that type of clothing,

00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:19.039
as you mentioned, though, is the price. So this

00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:22.559
is going to change that. Yeah, I think so. I

00:21:22.559 --> 00:21:26.259
mean, you would assume so. I don't know to what

00:21:26.259 --> 00:21:29.819
extent durable clothing would get more expensive.

00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.200
I don't know how they would play into these programs.

00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.759
That was one of the things too. My grandparents

00:21:34.759 --> 00:21:37.160
were proud of the fact that they had like a 50

00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:41.460
year old hat from you know uh maybe a local pacific

00:21:41.460 --> 00:21:43.980
northwest brand that made stuff out of wool um

00:21:43.980 --> 00:21:46.680
and lasted a long time or my father -in -law

00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:48.759
has jackets that he's had since he was you know

00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:51.019
a teenager and it's it's a point of pride to

00:21:51.019 --> 00:21:52.980
have things that last a long time that local

00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:55.279
pacific northwest brand where was it where was

00:21:55.279 --> 00:21:59.410
it uh actually made seattle Starts with an F

00:21:59.410 --> 00:22:01.829
maybe? Starts with an F. Rhymes with a Wilson.

00:22:02.029 --> 00:22:04.750
Oh. The volleyball from. Yeah. Yeah. Castaway.

00:22:04.829 --> 00:22:07.630
Yeah. Yeah. That's a Tom Hanks reference. Exactly.

00:22:07.690 --> 00:22:09.829
Nicely done. Where was that island? Do you know?

00:22:10.250 --> 00:22:14.529
Wasn't in Ghana. No, it wasn't. See how I'm bringing

00:22:14.529 --> 00:22:19.349
everything back to that whole. Yeah. Pretty sure

00:22:19.349 --> 00:22:21.029
he was trapped on Ireland. I thought, right?

00:22:21.130 --> 00:22:23.809
That was the island. He was trapped in Ireland.

00:22:23.910 --> 00:22:28.830
And Bono was there. That's how. That's how. but

00:22:28.830 --> 00:22:33.970
it was near Australia. That's how that whole

00:22:33.970 --> 00:22:37.930
thing, see how it comes full circle. Did you,

00:22:37.970 --> 00:22:40.809
I don't understand why you said Australia. Is

00:22:40.809 --> 00:22:42.269
that where the Island was for real? Or are you

00:22:42.269 --> 00:22:44.369
just, I just made that up. Okay. I mean, it sounds

00:22:44.369 --> 00:22:47.390
believable. I appreciate that. Yeah. I know it

00:22:47.390 --> 00:22:49.150
was in the ocean. I don't know where. It was.

00:22:49.589 --> 00:22:51.569
That's where islands tend to be. Most of them.

00:22:51.670 --> 00:22:54.670
Yeah, most of them are in the ocean. You could

00:22:54.670 --> 00:22:56.029
have just been off the coast of Florida in that

00:22:56.029 --> 00:22:57.269
movie for a while. It could have been, yeah.

00:22:57.490 --> 00:23:00.329
Okay, but anyways. I had to bring that whole

00:23:00.329 --> 00:23:02.329
thing full circle, especially since we're talking

00:23:02.329 --> 00:23:05.430
about the circular economy, right? And that's

00:23:05.430 --> 00:23:07.670
a good point, too, is that this is not just a

00:23:07.670 --> 00:23:11.960
U .S. thing. global yeah it's great i mean just

00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:14.160
like everything we're talking about are it's

00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:16.119
not just the u .s it's well because most of the

00:23:16.119 --> 00:23:18.259
manufacturers of clothing that's sold in the

00:23:18.259 --> 00:23:21.720
u .s aren't in the u .s right especially this

00:23:21.720 --> 00:23:24.019
fast fashion that you're talking about so and

00:23:24.019 --> 00:23:27.240
and i think yeah yeah we can go on i could go

00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:29.059
on and on but um yeah so that's something we're

00:23:29.059 --> 00:23:31.220
going to learn a lot more about um hopefully

00:23:31.220 --> 00:23:33.500
we'll learn a little bit more about the overall

00:23:34.089 --> 00:23:36.210
problem that the bill is trying to address. And

00:23:36.210 --> 00:23:38.190
then hopefully later in the year, we'll be able

00:23:38.190 --> 00:23:39.950
to connect with the legislators that sponsored

00:23:39.950 --> 00:23:44.490
both a bill on clothing EPR or extended producer

00:23:44.490 --> 00:23:48.630
responsibility, but also on some of the reporting

00:23:48.630 --> 00:23:50.410
on some of the toxins that are in the clothes

00:23:50.410 --> 00:23:52.730
that they're using. So PFAS have been a very

00:23:52.730 --> 00:23:57.029
big topic in the last five years at least. Related

00:23:57.029 --> 00:23:58.849
to all kinds of products, but it's definitely

00:23:58.849 --> 00:24:00.710
in clothing as well. Right. It's amazing how

00:24:00.710 --> 00:24:03.549
many items of clothing I have in my closet. I

00:24:03.549 --> 00:24:05.890
wouldn't even think out are primarily plastic

00:24:05.890 --> 00:24:07.849
in some form or another. Yeah. Why would you

00:24:07.849 --> 00:24:09.750
think about it? Right. I don't want to think

00:24:09.750 --> 00:24:12.230
about it now, but, but yeah, I mean, all of the

00:24:12.230 --> 00:24:14.630
things that we love. Yeah. Everything has PFAS.

00:24:14.630 --> 00:24:16.130
Anyway. So yeah. So we're going to spend some

00:24:16.130 --> 00:24:19.230
more time understanding that. And I think that's

00:24:19.230 --> 00:24:20.829
one too, where a lot of our County solid waste

00:24:20.829 --> 00:24:22.670
programs will do clothing swaps. They'll try

00:24:22.670 --> 00:24:25.640
their best to. you know, help folks, you know,

00:24:25.660 --> 00:24:27.680
learn how to repurpose or how to prepare things

00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:30.339
for donation. Or there's a lot of sites online

00:24:30.339 --> 00:24:33.259
or other places where, you know, you can sell

00:24:33.259 --> 00:24:35.599
clothing rather than just donate them if you

00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:37.759
have the time and effort. So I think just, you

00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:39.380
know, it's a significant waste product. It's

00:24:39.380 --> 00:24:41.240
something that everybody uses. Well, that's what

00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:43.880
I was going to ask is, do we have any good statistics

00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:46.140
on how much of this product actually ends up

00:24:46.140 --> 00:24:48.759
in our landfills? We have statewide waste characterization

00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:52.220
data that... Is textiles a big piece of it? I

00:24:52.220 --> 00:24:56.079
don't know. I couldn't say the portion. It used

00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:58.579
to be something we would lump into organics because

00:24:58.579 --> 00:25:01.920
it was organic. Now it's not. I would need to

00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:04.599
go back and check. But it's enough for them to

00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:07.259
pull out a full separate category. And it could

00:25:07.259 --> 00:25:09.440
be a small portion. But at the same time, just

00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:11.480
like with some of the other things, food, other

00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:12.839
things we've talked about, there's people out

00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:14.480
there that can use these things and need these

00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.460
things. If there's a step that clothing can take

00:25:17.460 --> 00:25:19.599
before it goes to the landfill, then that's better.

00:25:20.009 --> 00:25:23.410
Well, Travis, these EPR bills, like I said, seem

00:25:23.410 --> 00:25:25.349
to be a trend. I think we're probably going to

00:25:25.349 --> 00:25:28.210
see a lot more of them as we look forward towards

00:25:28.210 --> 00:25:32.450
future sessions. I know that there's some appliance

00:25:32.450 --> 00:25:35.750
EPRs that are out there that people are... thinking

00:25:35.750 --> 00:25:38.990
about, right? And I'm sure that there are others.

00:25:39.630 --> 00:25:43.049
But were there other categories of solid waste

00:25:43.049 --> 00:25:45.789
bills? I think there's at least one more kind

00:25:45.789 --> 00:25:48.609
of big one that passed pretty recently, right?

00:25:48.789 --> 00:25:53.549
1154. Jamie was in here, geez, I think yesterday

00:25:53.549 --> 00:25:56.089
or the day before when we got a podcast with

00:25:56.089 --> 00:25:58.670
her on kind of the public health wrap up. She

00:25:58.670 --> 00:26:01.990
was mentioning that one. Yeah, that was a big

00:26:01.990 --> 00:26:05.839
one. And that was one that Right before session,

00:26:06.099 --> 00:26:09.019
we started working on it, and we had worked on

00:26:09.019 --> 00:26:11.599
it all the way, as long as we could, right? At

00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:13.579
the last minute, we were still making tweaks.

00:26:13.779 --> 00:26:17.259
And Jamie and I worked very closely together,

00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:20.460
talked to a lot of our members. This bill will

00:26:20.460 --> 00:26:24.240
give local health jurisdictions tools. in the

00:26:24.240 --> 00:26:27.180
form of penalties and fines that will help them

00:26:27.180 --> 00:26:30.640
in proper management of solid waste facilities.

00:26:30.740 --> 00:26:32.819
So their transfer stations, composting facilities,

00:26:33.259 --> 00:26:35.700
active landfills, closed landfills, et cetera.

00:26:35.859 --> 00:26:39.420
Does it apply to public facilities as well as

00:26:39.420 --> 00:26:41.680
privately owned and operated facilities? The

00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.940
bill applies to all solid waste handling facilities.

00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:49.019
So whether it's owned by a city or a county or

00:26:49.019 --> 00:26:53.940
ABC, you know, waste company, these tools would

00:26:53.940 --> 00:26:57.000
apply. Yes. Okay. And so we'll be spending some

00:26:57.000 --> 00:26:59.640
time really helping our counties, especially

00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:03.180
those that operate and own facilities, sort of

00:27:03.180 --> 00:27:04.859
how to navigate that bill and what this could

00:27:04.859 --> 00:27:06.660
look like. But we worked quite a bit on that

00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:09.079
one and it did pass and it did go through concurrence.

00:27:09.579 --> 00:27:12.599
And that one was. I mean, it was a frustrating

00:27:12.599 --> 00:27:16.000
one. I don't know what Jamie talked about, so

00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:17.779
I don't want to be redundant. Well, she just

00:27:17.779 --> 00:27:20.240
mentioned that while it was frustrating and while

00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:24.000
we weren't happy with the passage of the bill,

00:27:24.099 --> 00:27:26.400
that we did make some progress in making it better.

00:27:26.779 --> 00:27:29.599
Yeah, we made some progress, and I think that's

00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:31.460
largely in part to the fact that our members

00:27:31.460 --> 00:27:35.180
stood up and chose to engage and put themselves

00:27:35.180 --> 00:27:37.960
out there or took time to provide us with the

00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:39.480
information that we needed. So that one, that

00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:41.799
was really an all -in. hands on deck kind of

00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:43.460
a bill. And I don't think we would have made

00:27:43.460 --> 00:27:45.779
the changes that we made without that both, you

00:27:45.779 --> 00:27:48.420
know, public health, solid waste cooperation,

00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:52.759
but also our members at staff and elected levels

00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:56.220
really helping us out. So yeah, big, big, big

00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:58.519
win as far as collaboration goes. Well, good

00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:01.019
example of how, you know, we really oftentimes

00:28:01.019 --> 00:28:03.640
have to. There's a lot of teamwork that goes

00:28:03.640 --> 00:28:06.339
on behind the scenes here at WASAC and in the

00:28:06.339 --> 00:28:08.779
legislature that involves not just our policy

00:28:08.779 --> 00:28:12.319
team members, but also our WASAC members, county

00:28:12.319 --> 00:28:15.359
commissioners, council members, counselors, elected

00:28:15.359 --> 00:28:17.359
county executives, and members of the legislature

00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:19.619
to get these things done or to get these things

00:28:19.619 --> 00:28:22.740
fixed, so to speak. Well, solid waste isn't the

00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:25.319
only issue that you work in for us. You also

00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:28.720
were overseeing environmental concerns and issues

00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:32.279
for the counties this year, clean energy. Kind

00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:34.500
of fits in that environmental piece, but we call

00:28:34.500 --> 00:28:36.259
it out because it's such a big issue for our

00:28:36.259 --> 00:28:39.700
members. And then also wildland fire management.

00:28:40.519 --> 00:28:43.299
Were you working any legislation in any of those

00:28:43.299 --> 00:28:51.029
categories that you want to mention? Yeah, there

00:28:51.029 --> 00:28:52.809
were a couple and some of them overlapped with

00:28:52.809 --> 00:28:54.390
some of the land use stuff. So this was sort

00:28:54.390 --> 00:28:56.390
of, you know, Curtis and I or you and Curtis

00:28:56.390 --> 00:28:58.470
and I kind of navigating some of these areas.

00:28:58.670 --> 00:29:01.990
But I will say overall, it sort of felt like

00:29:01.990 --> 00:29:04.710
around the wildfire front and around the forest

00:29:04.710 --> 00:29:08.670
health front, it was quieter this year than I

00:29:08.670 --> 00:29:11.549
had seen in recent years working with you on

00:29:11.549 --> 00:29:16.680
these bills. there were a few that applied to

00:29:16.680 --> 00:29:21.380
state agencies or funding like Firewise, making

00:29:21.380 --> 00:29:24.480
sure that there's funding for the fire prevention

00:29:24.480 --> 00:29:26.980
and the fire recovery programs that DNR has.

00:29:27.140 --> 00:29:28.700
And of course, we haven't seen the budgets yet.

00:29:28.859 --> 00:29:31.099
Even though we're a couple of days out, they

00:29:31.099 --> 00:29:33.319
still haven't released the final versions of

00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:37.240
the budget. So we don't know how those funding

00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:40.849
proposals. came out yeah yeah um but it felt

00:29:40.849 --> 00:29:43.690
light and i don't know um you know i asked around

00:29:43.690 --> 00:29:45.490
to try and understand i don't know if it's because

00:29:45.490 --> 00:29:47.529
there's a new commissioner of public lands there

00:29:47.529 --> 00:29:50.230
and they're you know trying to to you know sort

00:29:50.230 --> 00:29:52.210
of settle in before well there was definitely

00:29:52.210 --> 00:29:54.849
a transition going on yeah um but it also felt

00:29:54.849 --> 00:29:56.809
like like what you just said is there was a lot

00:29:56.809 --> 00:30:00.950
of focus on Retaining the funding for the programs

00:30:00.950 --> 00:30:03.750
that had passed in recent years. So there was

00:30:03.750 --> 00:30:07.750
not a lot on the wildfire and forestry and forest

00:30:07.750 --> 00:30:10.970
health front. But I don't know what that'll look

00:30:10.970 --> 00:30:15.609
like next year. For sure. That's a mystery. As

00:30:15.609 --> 00:30:17.789
far as climate goes, there were a few. Well,

00:30:17.869 --> 00:30:19.589
I guess the other one I would say on the wildfire

00:30:19.589 --> 00:30:23.769
front was there was a bill that would have required

00:30:23.769 --> 00:30:27.049
the full scope of the wildland urban interface

00:30:27.049 --> 00:30:31.420
building code. to be implemented once the risk

00:30:31.420 --> 00:30:34.240
assessments were done. That bill did not pass,

00:30:34.460 --> 00:30:37.700
but that was one where I think because it was

00:30:37.700 --> 00:30:39.779
land use and because it was wildfire, I think

00:30:39.779 --> 00:30:42.539
we ended up shifting that to land use. And so

00:30:42.539 --> 00:30:44.359
I think, I don't know if Curtis or Kelsey worked

00:30:44.359 --> 00:30:46.779
on that one, but watched it, but that didn't

00:30:46.779 --> 00:30:49.440
go anywhere. Yeah, several of us worked on that

00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:52.039
one. I know you did. I'm pretty sure Curtis and

00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:54.339
Kelsey and myself all worked on that one. And

00:30:54.339 --> 00:30:57.559
that was a trailer bill to one that we had seen

00:30:57.559 --> 00:31:00.779
in the - passed that had been amended after a

00:31:00.779 --> 00:31:06.319
couple of years to require the DNR to create

00:31:06.319 --> 00:31:10.079
these new maps around wildfire hazard and risk

00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:14.559
management from a wildland fire perspective outside,

00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:18.339
well, not really outside of just countywide and

00:31:18.339 --> 00:31:21.579
statewide, and then implement some new requirements

00:31:21.579 --> 00:31:25.960
under the Wildland Urban Interface Code. I think

00:31:25.960 --> 00:31:28.960
the bill was actually by request of the State

00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:31.160
Building Code Council to even go further than

00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:35.259
that. But the maps aren't done yet. Some of the

00:31:35.259 --> 00:31:38.480
other implementation from previous bills hadn't

00:31:38.480 --> 00:31:40.980
even occurred yet. So I think it was a good thing

00:31:40.980 --> 00:31:43.220
that that one got set aside, at least for now.

00:31:43.660 --> 00:31:48.619
Yeah. So yeah, moving on, I think there wasn't

00:31:48.619 --> 00:31:51.799
also a ton of new policy related to climate.

00:31:53.160 --> 00:31:55.420
If there was, you know, one, for example, like

00:31:55.420 --> 00:31:58.559
one I was watching gave counties an option to

00:31:58.559 --> 00:32:02.079
require that if you sell your house, you have

00:32:02.079 --> 00:32:04.500
to do an environmental analysis of the house

00:32:04.500 --> 00:32:08.279
to tell the, you know. So that one, again, we

00:32:08.279 --> 00:32:12.579
didn't engage. We watched. It didn't move. But

00:32:12.579 --> 00:32:16.500
it felt more like this year. And again, this

00:32:16.500 --> 00:32:19.839
is my. potentially still, you know, rookie interpretation,

00:32:19.980 --> 00:32:22.779
but it felt more like this year climate wise

00:32:22.779 --> 00:32:27.019
was protecting and implement, you know, protecting

00:32:27.019 --> 00:32:29.880
and implementing and funding the policies and

00:32:29.880 --> 00:32:31.759
programs that had built in previous sessions.

00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:34.400
So. Which there were a lot. Right. So where does,

00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:37.119
you know, how does the, how does the healthy

00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:40.599
environment for all the HEAL Act, you know, how

00:32:40.599 --> 00:32:42.680
do we, how, how is that going to play out? How

00:32:42.680 --> 00:32:46.700
is environmental justice going to look in, in,

00:32:47.510 --> 00:32:49.670
growth management and planning? And how are all

00:32:49.670 --> 00:32:51.650
these other, the Climate Commitment Act funds,

00:32:52.009 --> 00:32:53.589
how are they going to be used? So it seemed like

00:32:53.589 --> 00:32:55.710
there was a lot more refining and protecting.

00:32:55.990 --> 00:32:59.190
There was that other bill, if you remember, around

00:32:59.190 --> 00:33:02.190
incorporating environmental justice into the

00:33:02.190 --> 00:33:05.529
State Environmental Policy Act. And I think that's

00:33:05.529 --> 00:33:07.970
the second or third version of that that we've

00:33:07.970 --> 00:33:10.910
seen. And I know you worked on that. I worked

00:33:10.910 --> 00:33:12.690
on that. I think Kelsey worked on that a little

00:33:12.690 --> 00:33:14.529
bit too. So another team effort, but that ended

00:33:14.529 --> 00:33:18.049
up not going anywhere either. Yeah, but I'm also

00:33:18.049 --> 00:33:22.329
participating on behalf of WASAC on environmental

00:33:22.329 --> 00:33:26.190
justice for hydrogen, citing hydrogen any. So

00:33:26.190 --> 00:33:27.829
just there's some projects that are rolling out

00:33:27.829 --> 00:33:29.769
related to that, but it felt more like it was

00:33:29.769 --> 00:33:32.170
a focus on let's get these programs protected

00:33:32.170 --> 00:33:35.809
or moving along and not pass a lot of new policy.

00:33:36.950 --> 00:33:40.210
So it was largely, I don't want to say boring,

00:33:40.329 --> 00:33:42.150
because there was still plenty to do and still

00:33:42.150 --> 00:33:44.309
a lot of waiting and figuring out exactly how

00:33:44.309 --> 00:33:48.599
things did come up. impacted counties. But from

00:33:48.599 --> 00:33:51.059
a county perspective, it was a pretty uneventful

00:33:51.059 --> 00:33:54.019
climate legislation. But you did work on a pretty

00:33:54.019 --> 00:33:56.359
big bill around clean energy, right? Yeah. You

00:33:56.359 --> 00:34:00.299
and I worked quite a bit on House Bill 1960,

00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:04.480
which was the bill that Representative Rammel

00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:07.960
introduced as a result of the clean energy property

00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:11.079
tax impacts projects we did over the interim

00:34:11.079 --> 00:34:14.840
and the research that... We had done over the

00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:17.900
last couple of years so that this bill would

00:34:17.900 --> 00:34:21.659
have addressed the property tax shift issue that

00:34:21.659 --> 00:34:23.980
we had learned about and that counties were experiencing.

00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:29.079
And our members, our partner affiliates, you

00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:31.920
know, assessors, treasurers worked really hard

00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:33.920
on this bill over the interim and worked really

00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:38.019
hard on it during session. And it had some movement,

00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:40.320
but ultimately didn't make it out of the House

00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:42.960
of Origin. Yeah, it was an interesting bill.

00:34:43.079 --> 00:34:45.960
I was glad to see it introduced this year. I

00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:47.900
mean, that just alone was exciting to have a

00:34:47.900 --> 00:34:51.320
project immediately yield. was a very cool thing

00:34:51.320 --> 00:34:53.539
to experience. Yeah, I mean, and it really was

00:34:53.539 --> 00:34:56.659
driven in large part, I think probably 98 % by

00:34:56.659 --> 00:34:59.800
the work that you and I did over, and mostly

00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:03.880
you did, with the facilitation of the task force

00:35:03.880 --> 00:35:07.519
over the interim. And it wasn't just our members

00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:09.039
that were on that task force, right? We brought

00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:11.340
in all kinds of people that we thought would

00:35:11.340 --> 00:35:13.059
be interesting stakeholders, brought them to

00:35:13.059 --> 00:35:15.440
the table, including developers and state agencies

00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:20.679
and legislators. Nonprofits. Other states. Yeah.

00:35:20.760 --> 00:35:22.980
We had like New York purchased. Like they just

00:35:22.980 --> 00:35:24.739
wanted to see what we were doing and wanted to

00:35:24.739 --> 00:35:27.659
help us. So yeah, it was a big, big effort. That

00:35:27.659 --> 00:35:30.039
email contact list is pretty long at this point.

00:35:30.099 --> 00:35:34.119
You know, when you're trying to deal with a complex

00:35:34.119 --> 00:35:37.699
effort that requires new legislation. The playbook

00:35:37.699 --> 00:35:40.099
is you don't do it alone, right? You bring in

00:35:40.099 --> 00:35:42.099
a bunch of other people. You develop allies.

00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:44.079
You even bring in the folks that you think are

00:35:44.079 --> 00:35:47.139
going to oppose it because you want to know that

00:35:47.139 --> 00:35:49.260
early, right? And you want to see if you can

00:35:49.260 --> 00:35:52.219
work it out with them, et cetera. We did all

00:35:52.219 --> 00:35:55.900
that work, right? We put together a really –

00:35:55.900 --> 00:35:58.400
and again, you did most of the research for it.

00:35:58.460 --> 00:36:01.619
And then you and I collaborated on it, a report

00:36:01.619 --> 00:36:04.619
or a study that laid out the problem pretty clearly.

00:36:07.070 --> 00:36:09.389
pretty understandable terms with really good

00:36:09.389 --> 00:36:11.670
data. And then we put together the task force

00:36:11.670 --> 00:36:13.989
to try to find solutions and help them understand

00:36:13.989 --> 00:36:17.329
the problem. And then that resulted in a bill

00:36:17.329 --> 00:36:20.469
being introduced. Even after all that work, two

00:36:20.469 --> 00:36:23.869
years essentially of work, the bill turned out

00:36:23.869 --> 00:36:26.269
to be really controversial. Even amongst some

00:36:26.269 --> 00:36:28.289
of the stakeholders who were part of the process.

00:36:28.710 --> 00:36:31.489
Did that surprise you? I think... I mean, it

00:36:31.489 --> 00:36:34.510
absolutely surprised me. I was thinking about

00:36:34.510 --> 00:36:36.289
this the other day in a sense of like, I think

00:36:36.289 --> 00:36:40.000
that bill gave me most. of the experiences people

00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:42.360
get when working on bills. I was thinking about

00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:43.780
like, you know how like, well, you know, you're

00:36:43.780 --> 00:36:45.639
a big mountain, you know, mountain climbers,

00:36:45.699 --> 00:36:47.260
right? That makes sense. Like if you're going

00:36:47.260 --> 00:36:49.380
to climb on a Perna, you're right. You're big

00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:51.300
on mountain climbing. So this analogy is going

00:36:51.300 --> 00:36:53.280
to make a lot of sense. I hike a lot, but I don't

00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:54.760
know about mountain climbing. You know how like

00:36:54.760 --> 00:36:57.980
if somebody is going to be climbing like on a

00:36:57.980 --> 00:36:59.960
Perna or Everest or one of the big mountains,

00:37:00.059 --> 00:37:02.000
they train on Rainier. I'm going to take your

00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:04.139
word for it. Did you know this? No. Ed Vista.

00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:06.760
Okay. I'm going to take your word for it. We're

00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:09.190
going to probably cut this out, but. It fascinates

00:37:09.190 --> 00:37:12.809
me because Mount Rainier has almost every feature

00:37:12.809 --> 00:37:15.989
that you run into if you're going to be climbing

00:37:15.989 --> 00:37:18.909
all of the... tallest mountains in the world

00:37:18.909 --> 00:37:21.150
oh really i didn't know like uh you mean like

00:37:21.150 --> 00:37:24.110
ice and rocks right yeah all the hazards it's

00:37:24.110 --> 00:37:26.869
basically up elevation you know it goes up like

00:37:26.869 --> 00:37:29.309
most mountains too stuff but like surprise storms

00:37:29.309 --> 00:37:32.110
like like people train on mount rainier because

00:37:32.110 --> 00:37:35.050
it gives them the full gamut of experiences in

00:37:35.050 --> 00:37:37.530
a more controlled environment in washington versus

00:37:37.530 --> 00:37:40.829
i did anyway so well that's it's Fun fact you

00:37:40.829 --> 00:37:42.829
can say. Okay. There's, if you ever, there's

00:37:42.829 --> 00:37:45.369
a guy named Ed Visters climbs all the crazy mountains

00:37:45.369 --> 00:37:48.130
is from Seattle and just trained everywhere on,

00:37:48.150 --> 00:37:50.170
on Rainier. That's good to know. So anyways,

00:37:50.269 --> 00:37:53.170
I think this bill was, this bill gave me just

00:37:53.170 --> 00:37:55.289
about every experience. For you aspiring mountain

00:37:55.289 --> 00:37:57.610
climbers out there. That's a hot tip. Pro tip.

00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:01.139
Whether it's legislation or climbing mountains,

00:38:01.199 --> 00:38:03.639
this bill was my Mount Rainier, like a training

00:38:03.639 --> 00:38:05.880
bill. Beautiful. So, you know, I think this bill

00:38:05.880 --> 00:38:07.980
gave me a lot of the experiences that I hadn't

00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:11.699
had working on legislation yet. And I mean, it

00:38:11.699 --> 00:38:14.300
had everything. Like it had like, I don't want

00:38:14.300 --> 00:38:18.099
to say backstabbing, but it had like, it had

00:38:18.099 --> 00:38:22.239
controversy. It had us running around trying

00:38:22.239 --> 00:38:25.820
to sell this bill. begging and pleading with

00:38:25.820 --> 00:38:27.460
people to support. We were trying to keep it

00:38:27.460 --> 00:38:30.360
alive so that we could keep working on it. Yeah.

00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:33.320
I mean, this one, if you want to learn how to

00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:35.880
lobby a bill from start to finish, really from

00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:39.039
kind of inception of what is the problem and

00:38:39.039 --> 00:38:41.880
idea and how do you get through, you got a good...

00:38:42.059 --> 00:38:43.980
you definitely got a good taste of that. We didn't,

00:38:43.980 --> 00:38:45.739
we didn't get it finished. It didn't get over

00:38:45.739 --> 00:38:48.760
the finish line, but I'm confident we will at

00:38:48.760 --> 00:38:50.900
some point in the future. But I think some of

00:38:50.900 --> 00:38:52.679
the biggest surprises were people that I thought

00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.960
would vehemently support the bill came out fighting,

00:38:56.099 --> 00:39:00.380
came out swinging. And even in our, you know,

00:39:00.380 --> 00:39:02.599
myself included, like there were times when it

00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:04.119
was like, this bill is moving, but there's still

00:39:04.119 --> 00:39:06.420
parts of it we don't like. So that idea of like,

00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:09.320
working with you to like, when exactly do we

00:39:09.320 --> 00:39:12.800
pull the plug? Or when is it okay to feel comfortable

00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:15.800
about this moving versus not moving? So this

00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:18.219
idea of like, we kept it alive so that we could

00:39:18.219 --> 00:39:20.619
keep working on it and keep shaping it and keep

00:39:20.619 --> 00:39:23.239
fixing it, even if it wasn't exactly what we

00:39:23.239 --> 00:39:25.980
wanted. And I think that that uncertainty, especially

00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:28.380
with a big problem and a big change like this,

00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:31.739
it gets really scary. And I think it feels much

00:39:31.739 --> 00:39:34.400
safer to be like, let's just abandon ship now.

00:39:35.309 --> 00:39:37.690
because it's not going in the direction. versus

00:39:37.690 --> 00:39:39.670
let's stick with it and help it go in the right

00:39:39.670 --> 00:39:41.230
direction. Yeah, let's steer the ship a little

00:39:41.230 --> 00:39:43.210
bit. Let's move it in the right direction. Yeah,

00:39:43.269 --> 00:39:45.650
but it felt very... That's a lot harder to do,

00:39:45.690 --> 00:39:47.630
right? It's really hard. Yeah. And it's terrifying

00:39:47.630 --> 00:39:50.230
because you don't know if you're working on something

00:39:50.230 --> 00:39:53.510
that is going to be what you expected it to be

00:39:53.510 --> 00:39:54.989
when you started. Because at the end of the day...

00:39:54.989 --> 00:39:56.190
And doing it on behalf of your members. Yeah,

00:39:56.210 --> 00:39:57.289
at the end of the day, we're not in control,

00:39:57.429 --> 00:40:00.909
right? We identified the problem. We helped identify

00:40:00.909 --> 00:40:03.710
the solutions. And now we help write a bill,

00:40:03.849 --> 00:40:06.849
but it's not our name on that bill. And guess

00:40:06.849 --> 00:40:08.550
what? You and I don't get to vote on it either.

00:40:08.869 --> 00:40:11.210
So once you write that bill and you release it

00:40:11.210 --> 00:40:14.010
into the world, so to speak, there's all kinds

00:40:14.010 --> 00:40:15.530
of things that can happen to that bill. It could

00:40:15.530 --> 00:40:17.809
get hijacked by the other party. It could get

00:40:17.809 --> 00:40:20.150
hijacked by another representative or a senator.

00:40:21.289 --> 00:40:24.289
Someone can throw a bunch of amendments on it

00:40:24.289 --> 00:40:27.489
that completely change how the bill works or

00:40:27.489 --> 00:40:30.829
who is affected by the bill or how they're affected,

00:40:30.989 --> 00:40:36.389
right? It's a very slow process that really takes

00:40:36.389 --> 00:40:38.789
a lot of time and effort. And you have to know

00:40:38.789 --> 00:40:42.349
what you're talking about. And when you're talking

00:40:42.349 --> 00:40:45.949
about property tax bills and complex issues around

00:40:45.949 --> 00:40:48.570
how certain projects are taxed and how they might

00:40:48.570 --> 00:40:53.190
affect residents and other junior taxing districts

00:40:53.190 --> 00:40:55.610
like schools and fire districts and others, it

00:40:55.610 --> 00:40:58.750
can get pretty complex pretty fast. And there's

00:40:58.750 --> 00:41:00.170
a lot of people that have an interest in it.

00:41:00.309 --> 00:41:02.329
Yeah. No, there was a lot of people that had

00:41:02.329 --> 00:41:04.969
an interest, including, I remember at least two

00:41:04.969 --> 00:41:07.610
or three times thinking, why does this group

00:41:07.610 --> 00:41:10.269
care? Right. Like, I can't even, you know, six

00:41:10.269 --> 00:41:12.889
degrees of Kevin Bacon to them and this bill.

00:41:13.010 --> 00:41:16.010
Like, I don't, like, how and why do you care?

00:41:16.190 --> 00:41:17.510
Right. And then you've got to make that phone

00:41:17.510 --> 00:41:19.550
call and say, okay, enlighten me. What am I not

00:41:19.550 --> 00:41:22.809
understanding here? Yeah. And, oh, I had no idea

00:41:22.809 --> 00:41:25.139
that was part of. This issue. That's the other

00:41:25.139 --> 00:41:26.960
piece that would pop up. How many times did we

00:41:26.960 --> 00:41:28.940
like, we just figured this thing out yesterday

00:41:28.940 --> 00:41:30.699
that, I mean, we'd been working on this for like

00:41:30.699 --> 00:41:34.119
two years. And then we learned that, you know,

00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:36.840
there's some, you know, other type of property

00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:40.239
techs out there that we, nobody caught. And now

00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:43.280
we've got to scramble to fix that. Right. Yeah.

00:41:43.340 --> 00:41:45.699
It just, it was, you know, we talk about building

00:41:45.699 --> 00:41:47.980
the plane while you're flying it as a bad thing,

00:41:48.039 --> 00:41:50.639
but I'm also, you know, in a lot of cases. But

00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:53.900
I think that's sort of what we were doing, but

00:41:53.900 --> 00:41:55.840
I don't think there's a different way to do it.

00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:58.000
I think that's just how it gets done. And I don't

00:41:58.000 --> 00:41:59.639
know if that's the right connection, but it was

00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:02.719
just sort of like, if the plane's not in the

00:42:02.719 --> 00:42:03.980
air, nobody's going to care about it. So you

00:42:03.980 --> 00:42:05.800
got to keep it in there. I'm making all these

00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:08.099
bad metaphors. Probably going to crash into Rainier

00:42:08.099 --> 00:42:09.760
where they're training for climbing and I don't

00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:12.380
know anymore. Pro tip, don't crash your plane

00:42:12.380 --> 00:42:16.929
into Rainier. But I mean, you talked about the

00:42:16.929 --> 00:42:19.269
fact that it kind of goes back to, you know,

00:42:19.289 --> 00:42:21.070
if we go back to the earlier part of our conversation

00:42:21.070 --> 00:42:23.550
here on this podcast, we talked about the EPR

00:42:23.550 --> 00:42:25.489
bill. We talked about it, you know, at the last

00:42:25.489 --> 00:42:28.030
podcast too. This was the fifth year for the

00:42:28.030 --> 00:42:32.449
EPR bill. right? Five years. And at some point,

00:42:32.469 --> 00:42:34.809
somebody just has to put, you do your research,

00:42:34.969 --> 00:42:37.309
you bring your people together as many as you

00:42:37.309 --> 00:42:38.849
can, as many as you can think of, and you just

00:42:38.849 --> 00:42:41.570
put something out there. And then, yeah, during

00:42:41.570 --> 00:42:44.230
the session, you're flying whatever you put out

00:42:44.230 --> 00:42:46.250
there and you're making adjustments, you know,

00:42:46.269 --> 00:42:48.230
in flight, trying to keep it going and trying

00:42:48.230 --> 00:42:50.130
to keep it being worked on, you know, keep the

00:42:50.130 --> 00:42:53.889
interest in up on it, keep the momentum up on

00:42:53.889 --> 00:42:56.070
it so that it just doesn't die somewhere. No

00:42:56.070 --> 00:42:58.539
one cares about it anymore. But that's That is

00:42:58.539 --> 00:43:00.880
the process. And, you know, you land that plane

00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:02.960
for the session, sometimes, you know, at the

00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:04.760
finish line and sometimes well short of it. We

00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:07.280
ended up well short this year. Yeah. Right. The

00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:11.380
bill, the bill stayed alive past cutoff, but

00:43:11.380 --> 00:43:14.199
just never, we never really found kind of that

00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:16.119
sweet spot that we could say, okay, we've got

00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:18.820
enough people in agreement here that we think

00:43:18.820 --> 00:43:20.639
we can take the next step or the next step or

00:43:20.639 --> 00:43:24.929
the next step. Representative Ramel is a great

00:43:24.929 --> 00:43:27.750
partner. I expect we'll be working on this again

00:43:27.750 --> 00:43:29.929
during the interim. I expect this is going to

00:43:29.929 --> 00:43:34.409
be probably a big part of your interim work to

00:43:34.409 --> 00:43:38.070
try to refine it and come back next year with

00:43:38.070 --> 00:43:41.670
another version that hopefully can gain a lot

00:43:41.670 --> 00:43:43.849
more support than we found this year. Yeah, because

00:43:43.849 --> 00:43:47.429
we get to pick up hopefully the plane wherever

00:43:47.429 --> 00:43:49.750
we left it. Hopefully we get to pick it up as

00:43:49.750 --> 00:43:54.289
is, dust it off and start from there so we don't

00:43:54.289 --> 00:43:56.510
have to start from scratch. But, you know, but

00:43:56.510 --> 00:43:58.789
again, similar to the bill that I talked about

00:43:58.789 --> 00:44:02.809
earlier, I think this was also a very good example

00:44:02.809 --> 00:44:05.210
of, you know, you mentioned we invited a lot

00:44:05.210 --> 00:44:07.110
of stakeholders, but I would think between our

00:44:07.110 --> 00:44:09.250
members, between the assessors and the treasurers,

00:44:09.530 --> 00:44:11.670
there was a significant amount of energy that

00:44:11.670 --> 00:44:14.659
was put into this. Yeah. That is not. part of

00:44:14.659 --> 00:44:16.920
their traditional LSC duties or part of their

00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:21.440
regular association duties. Like this was a project

00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:23.500
that they were interested in and they walked

00:44:23.500 --> 00:44:26.059
the hill, they knocked on doors with us, they

00:44:26.059 --> 00:44:28.000
advocated for us, and they went through the whole

00:44:28.000 --> 00:44:31.880
interim process with us. And I think that is

00:44:31.880 --> 00:44:35.960
a huge piece of mostly the reason that it had

00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:38.739
success was because this solution came from a

00:44:38.739 --> 00:44:41.960
place of people that are out there doing this

00:44:41.960 --> 00:44:44.969
work and experiencing. what is happening and

00:44:44.969 --> 00:44:48.030
their voice was important. So I think that's

00:44:48.030 --> 00:44:52.010
a huge learning opportunity as well to really

00:44:52.010 --> 00:44:54.550
empower our members to engage in these processes

00:44:54.550 --> 00:44:58.309
because their voices are important. Yeah. Well,

00:44:58.429 --> 00:45:01.690
a lot more to come on that one. You know, Travis,

00:45:01.969 --> 00:45:04.329
I always, you know, that question I asked you

00:45:04.329 --> 00:45:06.110
at the beginning of, you know, how do you compare

00:45:06.110 --> 00:45:07.909
this session to previous sessions? I always find

00:45:07.909 --> 00:45:10.400
that every session is unique. You know what I

00:45:10.400 --> 00:45:12.619
mean? It's hard to compare them. When you stack

00:45:12.619 --> 00:45:15.920
up a bunch of sessions kind of in your work history,

00:45:16.059 --> 00:45:18.619
it's a little easier to say, okay, that felt

00:45:18.619 --> 00:45:22.119
more like a normal or an abnormal or whatever.

00:45:22.260 --> 00:45:25.179
But every session is unique. There's always unique

00:45:25.179 --> 00:45:27.739
topics to talk about. There's a lot of carryover

00:45:27.739 --> 00:45:30.159
topics as well, but there's always something

00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:32.820
eventful, I think, that happens every single

00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:36.480
time. And what I love the most about the session

00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:39.079
is the start. And then the second thing I love

00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:42.619
most. about the session is the end. Because you

00:45:42.619 --> 00:45:45.980
really do get this kind of start and finish and

00:45:45.980 --> 00:45:48.960
then a period of opportunity to work on really

00:45:48.960 --> 00:45:51.380
great projects like the bill we were just talking

00:45:51.380 --> 00:45:54.739
about. And then you get to go try it again and

00:45:54.739 --> 00:45:57.980
see if it works. And I think that's one of the

00:45:57.980 --> 00:46:00.739
great things about what we do here at WASAC on

00:46:00.739 --> 00:46:02.639
the policy team. I've been joking. I think I

00:46:02.639 --> 00:46:04.340
joked with you a couple of times and others around

00:46:04.340 --> 00:46:07.300
like this. the badges that Boy Scouts and Girl

00:46:07.300 --> 00:46:09.099
Scouts get when they reach certain milestones

00:46:09.099 --> 00:46:10.719
or have certain experiences. Yeah, I think they

00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:12.420
call us merit badges. Yeah, merit badges. And

00:46:12.420 --> 00:46:15.719
I feel like our work during session as lobbyists

00:46:15.719 --> 00:46:17.699
and advocates for counties, I feel like there

00:46:17.699 --> 00:46:20.739
were definitely some badges, merit badges that

00:46:20.739 --> 00:46:23.780
I got this year that I hadn't before. I won't

00:46:23.780 --> 00:46:25.579
go through all of them, but like - I feel like

00:46:25.579 --> 00:46:28.750
making little badges for you now. Well, I think

00:46:28.750 --> 00:46:32.030
we should all wear them and a sash. But I think

00:46:32.030 --> 00:46:33.670
that should be all of us. I don't want to be

00:46:33.670 --> 00:46:36.409
the only one. I think all of us need to celebrate

00:46:36.409 --> 00:46:38.489
the experiences we've had that have informed

00:46:38.489 --> 00:46:42.969
us. I think everyone will get behind the celebration,

00:46:43.170 --> 00:46:44.829
but I think you might be the only one wearing

00:46:44.829 --> 00:46:46.469
a mirror patch. Why do I feel like people are

00:46:46.469 --> 00:46:48.150
going to start showing up with patches and badges

00:46:48.150 --> 00:46:49.550
that they think are funny that I'm going to have

00:46:49.550 --> 00:46:51.909
to wear next? They might. I'm going to keep my

00:46:51.909 --> 00:46:54.570
mouth shut. All right. Well, Travis, good work

00:46:54.570 --> 00:46:58.960
this session. Thanks. I'm glad you made it through.

00:46:59.500 --> 00:47:01.420
I know it was pretty intense. It was a difficult

00:47:01.420 --> 00:47:03.579
session. I think most people would agree with

00:47:03.579 --> 00:47:06.179
that. It was a very long session for a long session

00:47:06.179 --> 00:47:08.760
too, it felt like. Yeah. But I think, you know,

00:47:08.800 --> 00:47:10.460
you and I talked about this yesterday. I think

00:47:10.460 --> 00:47:12.300
the important thing to note is that we're all

00:47:12.300 --> 00:47:14.219
still having fun with each other and you guys

00:47:14.219 --> 00:47:16.900
are planning to get together to go like clamming.

00:47:16.920 --> 00:47:18.840
So you guys are voluntarily seeing each other

00:47:18.840 --> 00:47:21.860
next week after spending four intense months

00:47:21.860 --> 00:47:23.500
together. And I think that's important to highlight

00:47:23.500 --> 00:47:25.820
that we're all... still in a good place yeah

00:47:25.820 --> 00:47:29.039
it's a good team a lot of good team work here

00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:32.579
a lot of good personalities a lot of good professionals

00:47:32.579 --> 00:47:35.400
who know how to work together and yeah, we battle

00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:37.179
it out and we fight it out. But at the end of

00:47:37.179 --> 00:47:40.880
the day, I'm grateful that after session, we

00:47:40.880 --> 00:47:44.000
all just don't pack up our stuff and not talk

00:47:44.000 --> 00:47:45.960
to each other for six weeks. Yeah. It's not a

00:47:45.960 --> 00:47:47.699
family Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah. We're done.

00:47:47.820 --> 00:47:50.340
We're done with you. Don't talk to me for six

00:47:50.340 --> 00:47:51.980
more weeks. I'll see you at the 4th of July.

00:47:52.139 --> 00:47:55.039
Yeah. I'm glad that's not the relationship we

00:47:55.039 --> 00:47:59.159
have. So we're really lucky. frankly, and really

00:47:59.159 --> 00:48:02.219
fortunate here at WASAC. Looking forward to getting

00:48:02.219 --> 00:48:04.500
more merit badges next session. Yeah, let's all

00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:06.579
look forward to that. Take care until then. All

00:48:06.579 --> 00:48:11.239
right, thanks. Bye. Thanks for tuning in to County

00:48:11.239 --> 00:48:13.599
Connection. Stay in the loop by subscribing to

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