You know what makes Travis so furious? Having
to move a raspberry to get to a strawberry. Or
a godforsaken blueberry. I also love the fact
that I hate paying for these because they just
grow. We get 20 pounds of them in our neighborhood
over the summer and I hate buying them. They're
delicious though. They're so good. Especially
when it's warm outside. You go pick and they're
hot and then you go home and you make some...
Crumble or crisp or cobbler. Or whatever. I guess
it depends on where the crust is. Yeah, pick
one of them. They're all delicious. Yeah. Welcome
to County Connection. the official podcast of
the Washington State Association of Counties,
where we dive into the legislative issues shaping
the future of our communities. From budgets to
public safety, infrastructure to elections, we'll
break down what's happening in Olympia and how
it impacts counties from across the Evergreen
State. Stay informed, stay engaged, and join
us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39
counties. Welcome back, everybody, to the County
Connection podcast. I'm Paul Jewell, your...
host and government relations director for the
Washington State Association of Counties here
in Olympia. It's day 102 of a 105 -day legislative
session. But of course, at WASAC, we don't count
the days. We make the days count. Speaking of
making the days count, Travis, how are you? I
thought there were two days left. The fact that
there's three days left is slightly terrifying.
So I lost a day in there somewhere. But otherwise,
I'm doing very, very well. It's always disturbing
to find out when you've lost a day. That's for
sure. Right. Today's Thursday, though. At least
I know that. Today's Thursday. I just didn't
count. I didn't use my fingers. It's Thursday
at about 1130, actually, just to put a timestamp
on it for everybody. All right. OK, perfect.
And we're almost at the end, Travis. So hang
on. Hang on. Stay with us. Three more days. Three
more days to go. How are things? Things are good.
You can definitely feel some winding down. How
many sessions is this for you now as a staff
member at WASAC? This will be my third session
as a WASAC staff member. Okay. All right. So
this is your second long session then because
you did a long session, a short session, and
now another long session. Yeah. Yes. Okay. And
how is this one compared to the previous? I don't
know that I can make a really good comparison
because that first one, everything was... unfamiliar
and new right from the perspective of nothing
was familiar and i think that this one having
heard a lot of veterans that have experienced
many long sessions talk about this one also feeling
significantly different than previous sessions
it just sort of felt like a short session that
was stretched out as far as like intensity um
number of bills just um the amount of work that
went into to getting this stuff done felt had
the same urgency but just lasted twice as the
same urgency as a short session but lasted longer
so yeah you know the long sessions tend to kind
of ramp up more slowly right and there's more
time to evaluate bills and there's more time
to do the analysis and talk to people and whatnot
but this one really started like and I think
we talked about this at the beginning when we
were doing some of these podcasts, this one really
started with a bang, like right out of the gate,
like everybody just started sprinting instead
of, you know, that kind of warmup that we normally
see. It was just like, bang, off we go, just
like a short session. And it's really held its
intensity all the way through until now. Yeah.
I mean, I feel like there were more, you know,
in my subject areas, there were more bills pre
-filed before session even started. Then I think
I had seen in those areas for a whole session
before and, you know, focusing on garbage recycling,
that kind of thing. Like there were a lot of
them, um, and they came out very quickly and
they, they seem to move very quickly on hearings
and, and, you know, right out the gate kind of
jumping in on some of these things. Um, so yeah,
that feels like it was just, you hit the ground
at a full sprint. So, well, at a day, 102 of,
of 105 days, we passed all of our. uh thresholds
all of our cutoffs so to speak we've been through
you know the house of origin cutoffs we've been
through the opposite house cutoffs the legislature
is working right now. They're doing what's called
concurrence. So they're looking at the bills
that, you know, started in one chamber and finished
in the other chamber and had some changes in
the, you know, through the process. And they're
trying to come together to say, okay, we accept
the changes or we don't. And, you know, if we
don't, can we conference and figure that out,
et cetera. Bills can still die during that process,
but it's much more rare, you know, if it's made
it through the... the full legislature at this
point, there's a really good chance that it's
going to be signed into law. And since we're,
you know, this is the kind of, this is kind of
the time of year where we don't have a lot to
do right now from an urgency standpoint, other
than just watching, paying attention to what's
going on and then waiting for budgets. So let's
talk about, since it's really just the budget
that we're waiting for and most of the policy
stuff is done, let's talk about what you saw
this year in policy bills. Where would you like
to start? You know, I think just because it's
been where my head has been at the last couple
of weeks, I think just starting in some of the
solid waste and recycling bills would be, I think,
a good place to start. Plus, that's informing
a good portion of what... interim work i'll be
doing with our solid waste folks well we just
did a breaking news podcast about two weeks ago
maybe on a solid waste bill that was the extended
producer responsibility bill right yeah which
i guess would be old news now but it was breaking
news at the time right yeah that was that epr
bill is one that's going to take up a lot of
our attention and time over the next definitely
over the next interim but likely over the next
just remind us what that bill does again um it
creates a program that uh requires the producers
of packaging and paper products to be responsible
for collecting, transporting, processing and
recycling the things that we buy. It'll use the
existing system. Producers will be required to
build that out, hopefully increase the amount
of things that are recyclable, increase the amount
of things that get recycled, and increase the
amount of things that are made out of recycled
products. And in theory, they're supposed to
pay for that, right? So instead of people paying
for recycling like they do now through curbside,
through their monthly bill, et cetera, it's going
to be these producers of these. packaging products
and paper products that actually have the responsibility
for the system, for paying for the system, et
cetera. Now, of course, we all know what happens
to increased costs associated with manufacturing
and product packaging. They end up being placed
upon the consumer in a different way, usually
through the purchase of that product. But it's
really just kind of moving the money around.
I don't want to go into a ton of detail about
that one because there's like a whole half hour,
45 minutes that people can listen to if they
want to tune in on that one. But anything else
to say about that one before we move on to others?
Just that it's going to be a long road to get
there. And when I say long road, I guess it doesn't
start until 2030. And there's just a lot of work
that needs to be done. There's needs assessments.
There's helping counties understand what their
options are and how to participate. It's making
sure that all the data is there. As we shared
in the other podcast, this bill has been, this
might be the fourth or fifth year. I can't remember
where we landed, but it's going to be another
four to five years of working on it and making
sure that everything's in place. And a lot of
big projects. So, yeah, so that's just all I'll
add is that there's just a lot of real work that
starts now before the program even is rolled
out. Well, what other solid waste bills did you
work on and what were the outcomes? You know,
on the vein of extended producer responsibility
bills, there were a few that were introduced
related to some products that are more difficult
to handle or recycle. Like there was a bill that
came out that would have developed an extended
producer responsibility bill. an extended producer
responsibility bill for mattresses, which are
a big problem. They're bulky. They're difficult
to tear apart to get their materials. They're
often what? is amongst illegally dumped items
um especially in multi -family complexes well
when you talk about a landfill like you said
they're big and they're bulky they also don't
compact very well because there's usually some
kind of spring or something in there it's like
it's part of their marketing is how springy and
non -compacting they are so yeah that's how they
that's how you get a mattress that's more durable
um you know Some sort of product responsibility
or EPR program for mattresses has been discussed
for a while. Is this the first time we've seen
a bill? Was this the first year we've seen the
bill or did we see it previously? I don't believe
I've seen it previously. I wouldn't be surprised
if there have been efforts. I know that there's
been efforts in Washington to address this problem.
similar legislation in Oregon, but I don't know
if it had been introduced here, but this was
the first year that I saw it. And it was sort
of introduced as a new topic to begin to think
about and likely something that will pass in
the next interim. It did not make it out of the
House where it was introduced. Okay. So this
one failed. Yes. But you expect to see it again?
I would expect to. I know that the intent was
to introduce it now and really work on it. And
this would be a good one because it's something
that is difficult for county solid waste programs
to manage. It's really hard for people to get
rid of these mattresses. And so having some type
of formal program with some investment or accountability
from the producers, again, would be very helpful
because right now they're just a huge problem
and are just getting landfilled in a lot of places.
You know, these EPR bills or these extended producer
responsibility bills are... product stewardship
bills. We seem to have a theme, I guess, and
maybe that's not the right word, but they definitely
seem to be a trend, right? In recent years, we've
seen... Paint. What was that one called? I would
have remembered it as soon as... What was the
name of the program? Paint Care. Yeah, Paint
Care. Paint Care, wow. Yeah, that one was considered
for at least two or three years before it got
passed. We've had batteries. Light bulbs have
been in place for a long time. Electronics for
a long time. But we've also seen recently...
And I guess this isn't really a... an EPR program,
but these right to repair bills for things like
small electronics, like cell phones or computers,
a lot of these companies like Apple, right? They
like to be, maybe I shouldn't call out a company
by name, but a lot of these electronics companies,
they'd like to be really proprietary on, you
know, not only who can fix their stuff, but how
you actually can get into their stuff. You know,
you gotta have the right tool that might be specialized.
You have to ask. you know, specialized training
and be certified, that sort of thing. There have
been a lot of bills that have been... trying
to make it easier for just regular repair shops
to get that certification or even for consumers
to be able to get a hold of the tools or equipment
that they need to repair the stuff themselves.
And we've seen those bills for a couple of years.
Did any progress get made on those this year?
Yes. This year's version of the right to repair
bill, which would require parts to be available
for businesses that repair phones and plans and
schematics. Did pass. Oh, it did. Yeah, that
did pass this year. The number escapes me off
the top of my head, but that bill passed. But
that one is definitely something that had come
up the three years, in all three of my sessions,
that's been a topic. A lot of it was a lot of
the challenges were around, you know, these companies
make money because their products are unique
and their products are theirs. And so just to
be able to protect both, you know, to be able
to protect people's personal debt on the phone,
to be able to protect that businesses right to
their unique products. But really, the ultimate
goal is just to, you know, extend the life of
these products. Or even if I break my phone and
I just don't want to go through the process of
repairing it. Somebody could repair that phone
and that could go to a program that provides
phones to other people as well. Sure, it could
be reused. So there's quite a few benefits there.
But I think, you know, the primary one being.
fewer turnover in electronic devices is a benefit
for multiple reasons. Are there any other EPR
type programs or product stewardship programs
that have been considered or that passed this
year? No others that passed. There was another
one that was considered around clothing and textiles.
So the fast fashion industry, there's a pretty
growing issue in the amount of... clothing that
is produced around the world um and is intended
to be used a couple of times um and then discarded
um and uh the ability for what type of clothing
is that i don't want to use brand names but um
okay wherever you would go for i don't want to
say this rudely like cheap clothing like i'm
thinking like pretty much anything you would
buy on amazon anything you would buy on timu
anything you would buy on like i mean like it
covers everything like i can go on amazon and
buy like 10 Calvin Klein white button up dress
shirts for 20 bucks. Wow. They're not going to
last. Yeah. I don't really know what's in them.
And they're not going to survive me donating
and, you know, moving. They're going to fall
apart pretty quickly. So it'd just be like cheap
clothing that is not intended for long -term
use. It's more about making something that's
cheap and accessible to people who want something
and can't get the more expensive version. That's
interesting because when I saw this bill, I thought,
why do we need? You know, why do we need some
sort of EPR program for textiles? We have all
kinds of things like clothing banks and secondhand
stores and vintage shops and consignment shops,
right, where people can take those. and places
to just donate as well, right? Where they can
take those items and they can find a new home
and get reused. I mean, clothing is always the
biggest item at a garage sale, for instance.
And sometimes that vintage wear that I was wearing
in high school becomes the coolest, hottest thing
for teenagers. And it's more, in some cases,
it's... worth more than i even paid for it you
know back in the 1990s or or late 80s here see
now i'm you know people you're dating yourself
yeah they can do the math um you also said you
were 50 a little bit ago easy oh sorry easy that
was before we started the podcast and now you've
oh no i can say how old i am if that helps i
don't think people it doesn't no because there's
too much of a gap between you and me it's gonna
make me feel worse Let's move on. You have successfully
derailed the podcast. We need to get back to
where we were. So you're close. You know, I think
about this too in my own life where it's very
easy to, you know, I don't want to get too crazy
here, but like just consumer culture and the
idea of just always wanting something new and
how quickly something you have. is no longer
cool even if it was paul's cool clothes from
the 80s like there's always something new and
i always think back to like thank you for saying
that paul's cool clothes from the 80s i like
it even just this concept of and i don't expect
this to go into the podcast but even just this
concept of like oh it's going there are fewer
closets in houses that are older than there are
today and it's because like we didn't have as
many outfits like we had you know yeah that's
true right That's true. I mean, I don't know
how many suits you got, like a suit for every
day for two weeks or something like that. I don't
know if that's true or not. At this point, it
is, yeah. But people just had three professional
outfits. They smelled awful, but they just wore
those three outfits. Well, you had one pair of
dress shoes if you were lucky, right? One pair
of regular shoes and a pair of maybe work shoes,
like work boots or something like that. When
I was a kid, I had one pair of shoes. Right.
Just one. That's it. Just one shoe or one pair
of shoes? No. Thankfully, we had both sides,
a left and a right. But we certainly didn't have
multiple pairs. Yeah, right. Yeah, that's not
a thing. Yeah, I didn't have, you know, I've
got four pairs of dress shoes in my office. That's
not something that. And it's ridiculous. I will
say it's ridiculous. But yeah, but I think I'd
learned that too when we were house shopping
and like these newer houses have like massive
amounts of closets because we own so many more
pieces of clothing now. But also like the fashion
changes so quickly or the desire to, you know,
have new. and new clothes that are cool. And
the old ones go, I was talking to the, there's
a company, it's the, there's a nonprofit that
I was talking to a couple of weeks ago to kind
of understand a little bit more about this clothing.
And they're housed in Ghana, which was, I've
never talked to somebody in Ghana before. So
that was very cool. South America. It's in Africa.
I knew that. I was just messing with you. It's
where U2's from. U2's from Ghana. You had me
for a second. I was like, wait a second. I've
been thinking it was in Africa this whole time.
I'm more certain about werewolves being in Twilight
than I am that Ghana is. No, it's in Africa.
Yeah, I know. I was just ripping off of that
joke on our last podcast. You gave me a good
look on that one. Yeah, you had me for a second.
I was like, oh, no. But they shared that Ghana
has one of the world's largest secondhand clothing,
where a lot of the clothing that gets donated
here in the US, what they shared with me, and
I haven't vetted these facts, but what they shared
with me was that 10 % of the clothing that gets
donated to your local donation location gets
put out on the shelves. Everything else gets
sent to waste or repurposing. So if you're sending
something to a clothing to some sort of... If
I'm dropping them off at the place down the street
where I'm also dropping off my picture frames
or whatever, they're sorting through that and
they're only keeping 10 % of the best stuff?
That's what they told me. That's what I was told.
That the amount of clothing that's going into
this facility, 10 % is getting put back out.
The rest of it goes someplace jumped somewhere
else. And oftentimes what I've been learning
is that it's bailed and then it's sent to the
secondhand markets where, you know, they, they
employ people to transport the bales, take what
clothing they can reassemble them into new clothing.
But they process these clothing and it's this
massive. facility in Ghana where, you know, all
of these clothes are shipped and people are responsible
at sifting through all of those things. How do
they process it? Do they make, do they break
down the fabrics and the fibers and make new
fabrics and fibers? Or do they just reuse the
good portions of, are they literally cutting
around the bad stuff and then somehow piecing
things together? I think it's both. Like I said,
I'm talking to these folks to help gather more
information and potentially put these in front
of our solid waste managers. in the coming year
to help us understand like, why do we need clothing
EPR and what's the impact of having it versus
not having it? And what's, what's the deal with
clothing EPR? Like, you know, kind of figuring
that out. But, but what they showed me were some
photographs in their slides around, like sometimes
it is like they are able to find similar fabrics
and patch or repair clothing that's damaged or
literally cutting things up using the good portions
of fabric to create new outfits or new pieces
of clothing. But I had no idea that was going
on. They're wearing these 50 -pound bales of
clothing around on their heads, and they're walking
from home to these factories and these places
where they're... So it's just this massive...
And even they're not saving 100 % of the clothing.
There's still a significant amount of waste that
goes into that. So is that what this clothing
and textiles bill would have done is somehow
created more of that? Or did it change it to
a different model? I think similar to... Our
recycling crisis that we had in the – was it
2000 and – when was the National Sword? The China
Sword. Yeah, the National Sword campaign. Yeah,
that was in 2018, 2019, 2020. Yeah. So I think
just like the recycling crisis we had when countries
overseas were telling us, we're no longer taking
your recyclables because – That was mostly a
contamination issue, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I
think that what's happening here is that we're
sending these products elsewhere. They're taking
care of what they can. And then they're now responsible
for disposal. And they're dealing with the litter.
And they're dealing with the impacts of having
to process all that clothing. So I think the
idea is to be able to, this is a, it's a very,
it's an important function to have to take and
repair clothing. But I think the bill would.
require producers of clothing, especially fast
fashion, to create programs to get the clothing
that's disposed of that they make to facilities
like this or maybe ones that are more socially
and environmentally. friendly and ultimately
make sure that that clothing that can't be repaired
isn't landfilled or littered or et cetera. One
of the real attractions to that type of clothing,
as you mentioned, though, is the price. So this
is going to change that. Yeah, I think so. I
mean, you would assume so. I don't know to what
extent durable clothing would get more expensive.
I don't know how they would play into these programs.
That was one of the things too. My grandparents
were proud of the fact that they had like a 50
year old hat from you know uh maybe a local pacific
northwest brand that made stuff out of wool um
and lasted a long time or my father -in -law
has jackets that he's had since he was you know
a teenager and it's it's a point of pride to
have things that last a long time that local
pacific northwest brand where was it where was
it uh actually made seattle Starts with an F
maybe? Starts with an F. Rhymes with a Wilson.
Oh. The volleyball from. Yeah. Yeah. Castaway.
Yeah. Yeah. That's a Tom Hanks reference. Exactly.
Nicely done. Where was that island? Do you know?
Wasn't in Ghana. No, it wasn't. See how I'm bringing
everything back to that whole. Yeah. Pretty sure
he was trapped on Ireland. I thought, right?
That was the island. He was trapped in Ireland.
And Bono was there. That's how. That's how. but
it was near Australia. That's how that whole
thing, see how it comes full circle. Did you,
I don't understand why you said Australia. Is
that where the Island was for real? Or are you
just, I just made that up. Okay. I mean, it sounds
believable. I appreciate that. Yeah. I know it
was in the ocean. I don't know where. It was.
That's where islands tend to be. Most of them.
Yeah, most of them are in the ocean. You could
have just been off the coast of Florida in that
movie for a while. It could have been, yeah.
Okay, but anyways. I had to bring that whole
thing full circle, especially since we're talking
about the circular economy, right? And that's
a good point, too, is that this is not just a
U .S. thing. global yeah it's great i mean just
like everything we're talking about are it's
not just the u .s it's well because most of the
manufacturers of clothing that's sold in the
u .s aren't in the u .s right especially this
fast fashion that you're talking about so and
and i think yeah yeah we can go on i could go
on and on but um yeah so that's something we're
going to learn a lot more about um hopefully
we'll learn a little bit more about the overall
problem that the bill is trying to address. And
then hopefully later in the year, we'll be able
to connect with the legislators that sponsored
both a bill on clothing EPR or extended producer
responsibility, but also on some of the reporting
on some of the toxins that are in the clothes
that they're using. So PFAS have been a very
big topic in the last five years at least. Related
to all kinds of products, but it's definitely
in clothing as well. Right. It's amazing how
many items of clothing I have in my closet. I
wouldn't even think out are primarily plastic
in some form or another. Yeah. Why would you
think about it? Right. I don't want to think
about it now, but, but yeah, I mean, all of the
things that we love. Yeah. Everything has PFAS.
Anyway. So yeah. So we're going to spend some
more time understanding that. And I think that's
one too, where a lot of our County solid waste
programs will do clothing swaps. They'll try
their best to. you know, help folks, you know,
learn how to repurpose or how to prepare things
for donation. Or there's a lot of sites online
or other places where, you know, you can sell
clothing rather than just donate them if you
have the time and effort. So I think just, you
know, it's a significant waste product. It's
something that everybody uses. Well, that's what
I was going to ask is, do we have any good statistics
on how much of this product actually ends up
in our landfills? We have statewide waste characterization
data that... Is textiles a big piece of it? I
don't know. I couldn't say the portion. It used
to be something we would lump into organics because
it was organic. Now it's not. I would need to
go back and check. But it's enough for them to
pull out a full separate category. And it could
be a small portion. But at the same time, just
like with some of the other things, food, other
things we've talked about, there's people out
there that can use these things and need these
things. If there's a step that clothing can take
before it goes to the landfill, then that's better.
Well, Travis, these EPR bills, like I said, seem
to be a trend. I think we're probably going to
see a lot more of them as we look forward towards
future sessions. I know that there's some appliance
EPRs that are out there that people are... thinking
about, right? And I'm sure that there are others.
But were there other categories of solid waste
bills? I think there's at least one more kind
of big one that passed pretty recently, right?
1154. Jamie was in here, geez, I think yesterday
or the day before when we got a podcast with
her on kind of the public health wrap up. She
was mentioning that one. Yeah, that was a big
one. And that was one that Right before session,
we started working on it, and we had worked on
it all the way, as long as we could, right? At
the last minute, we were still making tweaks.
And Jamie and I worked very closely together,
talked to a lot of our members. This bill will
give local health jurisdictions tools. in the
form of penalties and fines that will help them
in proper management of solid waste facilities.
So their transfer stations, composting facilities,
active landfills, closed landfills, et cetera.
Does it apply to public facilities as well as
privately owned and operated facilities? The
bill applies to all solid waste handling facilities.
So whether it's owned by a city or a county or
ABC, you know, waste company, these tools would
apply. Yes. Okay. And so we'll be spending some
time really helping our counties, especially
those that operate and own facilities, sort of
how to navigate that bill and what this could
look like. But we worked quite a bit on that
one and it did pass and it did go through concurrence.
And that one was. I mean, it was a frustrating
one. I don't know what Jamie talked about, so
I don't want to be redundant. Well, she just
mentioned that while it was frustrating and while
we weren't happy with the passage of the bill,
that we did make some progress in making it better.
Yeah, we made some progress, and I think that's
largely in part to the fact that our members
stood up and chose to engage and put themselves
out there or took time to provide us with the
information that we needed. So that one, that
was really an all -in. hands on deck kind of
a bill. And I don't think we would have made
the changes that we made without that both, you
know, public health, solid waste cooperation,
but also our members at staff and elected levels
really helping us out. So yeah, big, big, big
win as far as collaboration goes. Well, good
example of how, you know, we really oftentimes
have to. There's a lot of teamwork that goes
on behind the scenes here at WASAC and in the
legislature that involves not just our policy
team members, but also our WASAC members, county
commissioners, council members, counselors, elected
county executives, and members of the legislature
to get these things done or to get these things
fixed, so to speak. Well, solid waste isn't the
only issue that you work in for us. You also
were overseeing environmental concerns and issues
for the counties this year, clean energy. Kind
of fits in that environmental piece, but we call
it out because it's such a big issue for our
members. And then also wildland fire management.
Were you working any legislation in any of those
categories that you want to mention? Yeah, there
were a couple and some of them overlapped with
some of the land use stuff. So this was sort
of, you know, Curtis and I or you and Curtis
and I kind of navigating some of these areas.
But I will say overall, it sort of felt like
around the wildfire front and around the forest
health front, it was quieter this year than I
had seen in recent years working with you on
these bills. there were a few that applied to
state agencies or funding like Firewise, making
sure that there's funding for the fire prevention
and the fire recovery programs that DNR has.
And of course, we haven't seen the budgets yet.
Even though we're a couple of days out, they
still haven't released the final versions of
the budget. So we don't know how those funding
proposals. came out yeah yeah um but it felt
light and i don't know um you know i asked around
to try and understand i don't know if it's because
there's a new commissioner of public lands there
and they're you know trying to to you know sort
of settle in before well there was definitely
a transition going on yeah um but it also felt
like like what you just said is there was a lot
of focus on Retaining the funding for the programs
that had passed in recent years. So there was
not a lot on the wildfire and forestry and forest
health front. But I don't know what that'll look
like next year. For sure. That's a mystery. As
far as climate goes, there were a few. Well,
I guess the other one I would say on the wildfire
front was there was a bill that would have required
the full scope of the wildland urban interface
building code. to be implemented once the risk
assessments were done. That bill did not pass,
but that was one where I think because it was
land use and because it was wildfire, I think
we ended up shifting that to land use. And so
I think, I don't know if Curtis or Kelsey worked
on that one, but watched it, but that didn't
go anywhere. Yeah, several of us worked on that
one. I know you did. I'm pretty sure Curtis and
Kelsey and myself all worked on that one. And
that was a trailer bill to one that we had seen
in the - passed that had been amended after a
couple of years to require the DNR to create
these new maps around wildfire hazard and risk
management from a wildland fire perspective outside,
well, not really outside of just countywide and
statewide, and then implement some new requirements
under the Wildland Urban Interface Code. I think
the bill was actually by request of the State
Building Code Council to even go further than
that. But the maps aren't done yet. Some of the
other implementation from previous bills hadn't
even occurred yet. So I think it was a good thing
that that one got set aside, at least for now.
Yeah. So yeah, moving on, I think there wasn't
also a ton of new policy related to climate.
If there was, you know, one, for example, like
one I was watching gave counties an option to
require that if you sell your house, you have
to do an environmental analysis of the house
to tell the, you know. So that one, again, we
didn't engage. We watched. It didn't move. But
it felt more like this year. And again, this
is my. potentially still, you know, rookie interpretation,
but it felt more like this year climate wise
was protecting and implement, you know, protecting
and implementing and funding the policies and
programs that had built in previous sessions.
So. Which there were a lot. Right. So where does,
you know, how does the, how does the healthy
environment for all the HEAL Act, you know, how
do we, how, how is that going to play out? How
is environmental justice going to look in, in,
growth management and planning? And how are all
these other, the Climate Commitment Act funds,
how are they going to be used? So it seemed like
there was a lot more refining and protecting.
There was that other bill, if you remember, around
incorporating environmental justice into the
State Environmental Policy Act. And I think that's
the second or third version of that that we've
seen. And I know you worked on that. I worked
on that. I think Kelsey worked on that a little
bit too. So another team effort, but that ended
up not going anywhere either. Yeah, but I'm also
participating on behalf of WASAC on environmental
justice for hydrogen, citing hydrogen any. So
just there's some projects that are rolling out
related to that, but it felt more like it was
a focus on let's get these programs protected
or moving along and not pass a lot of new policy.
So it was largely, I don't want to say boring,
because there was still plenty to do and still
a lot of waiting and figuring out exactly how
things did come up. impacted counties. But from
a county perspective, it was a pretty uneventful
climate legislation. But you did work on a pretty
big bill around clean energy, right? Yeah. You
and I worked quite a bit on House Bill 1960,
which was the bill that Representative Rammel
introduced as a result of the clean energy property
tax impacts projects we did over the interim
and the research that... We had done over the
last couple of years so that this bill would
have addressed the property tax shift issue that
we had learned about and that counties were experiencing.
And our members, our partner affiliates, you
know, assessors, treasurers worked really hard
on this bill over the interim and worked really
hard on it during session. And it had some movement,
but ultimately didn't make it out of the House
of Origin. Yeah, it was an interesting bill.
I was glad to see it introduced this year. I
mean, that just alone was exciting to have a
project immediately yield. was a very cool thing
to experience. Yeah, I mean, and it really was
driven in large part, I think probably 98 % by
the work that you and I did over, and mostly
you did, with the facilitation of the task force
over the interim. And it wasn't just our members
that were on that task force, right? We brought
in all kinds of people that we thought would
be interesting stakeholders, brought them to
the table, including developers and state agencies
and legislators. Nonprofits. Other states. Yeah.
We had like New York purchased. Like they just
wanted to see what we were doing and wanted to
help us. So yeah, it was a big, big effort. That
email contact list is pretty long at this point.
You know, when you're trying to deal with a complex
effort that requires new legislation. The playbook
is you don't do it alone, right? You bring in
a bunch of other people. You develop allies.
You even bring in the folks that you think are
going to oppose it because you want to know that
early, right? And you want to see if you can
work it out with them, et cetera. We did all
that work, right? We put together a really –
and again, you did most of the research for it.
And then you and I collaborated on it, a report
or a study that laid out the problem pretty clearly.
pretty understandable terms with really good
data. And then we put together the task force
to try to find solutions and help them understand
the problem. And then that resulted in a bill
being introduced. Even after all that work, two
years essentially of work, the bill turned out
to be really controversial. Even amongst some
of the stakeholders who were part of the process.
Did that surprise you? I think... I mean, it
absolutely surprised me. I was thinking about
this the other day in a sense of like, I think
that bill gave me most. of the experiences people
get when working on bills. I was thinking about
like, you know how like, well, you know, you're
a big mountain, you know, mountain climbers,
right? That makes sense. Like if you're going
to climb on a Perna, you're right. You're big
on mountain climbing. So this analogy is going
to make a lot of sense. I hike a lot, but I don't
know about mountain climbing. You know how like
if somebody is going to be climbing like on a
Perna or Everest or one of the big mountains,
they train on Rainier. I'm going to take your
word for it. Did you know this? No. Ed Vista.
Okay. I'm going to take your word for it. We're
going to probably cut this out, but. It fascinates
me because Mount Rainier has almost every feature
that you run into if you're going to be climbing
all of the... tallest mountains in the world
oh really i didn't know like uh you mean like
ice and rocks right yeah all the hazards it's
basically up elevation you know it goes up like
most mountains too stuff but like surprise storms
like like people train on mount rainier because
it gives them the full gamut of experiences in
a more controlled environment in washington versus
i did anyway so well that's it's Fun fact you
can say. Okay. There's, if you ever, there's
a guy named Ed Visters climbs all the crazy mountains
is from Seattle and just trained everywhere on,
on Rainier. That's good to know. So anyways,
I think this bill was, this bill gave me just
about every experience. For you aspiring mountain
climbers out there. That's a hot tip. Pro tip.
Whether it's legislation or climbing mountains,
this bill was my Mount Rainier, like a training
bill. Beautiful. So, you know, I think this bill
gave me a lot of the experiences that I hadn't
had working on legislation yet. And I mean, it
had everything. Like it had like, I don't want
to say backstabbing, but it had like, it had
controversy. It had us running around trying
to sell this bill. begging and pleading with
people to support. We were trying to keep it
alive so that we could keep working on it. Yeah.
I mean, this one, if you want to learn how to
lobby a bill from start to finish, really from
kind of inception of what is the problem and
idea and how do you get through, you got a good...
you definitely got a good taste of that. We didn't,
we didn't get it finished. It didn't get over
the finish line, but I'm confident we will at
some point in the future. But I think some of
the biggest surprises were people that I thought
would vehemently support the bill came out fighting,
came out swinging. And even in our, you know,
myself included, like there were times when it
was like, this bill is moving, but there's still
parts of it we don't like. So that idea of like,
working with you to like, when exactly do we
pull the plug? Or when is it okay to feel comfortable
about this moving versus not moving? So this
idea of like, we kept it alive so that we could
keep working on it and keep shaping it and keep
fixing it, even if it wasn't exactly what we
wanted. And I think that that uncertainty, especially
with a big problem and a big change like this,
it gets really scary. And I think it feels much
safer to be like, let's just abandon ship now.
because it's not going in the direction. versus
let's stick with it and help it go in the right
direction. Yeah, let's steer the ship a little
bit. Let's move it in the right direction. Yeah,
but it felt very... That's a lot harder to do,
right? It's really hard. Yeah. And it's terrifying
because you don't know if you're working on something
that is going to be what you expected it to be
when you started. Because at the end of the day...
And doing it on behalf of your members. Yeah,
at the end of the day, we're not in control,
right? We identified the problem. We helped identify
the solutions. And now we help write a bill,
but it's not our name on that bill. And guess
what? You and I don't get to vote on it either.
So once you write that bill and you release it
into the world, so to speak, there's all kinds
of things that can happen to that bill. It could
get hijacked by the other party. It could get
hijacked by another representative or a senator.
Someone can throw a bunch of amendments on it
that completely change how the bill works or
who is affected by the bill or how they're affected,
right? It's a very slow process that really takes
a lot of time and effort. And you have to know
what you're talking about. And when you're talking
about property tax bills and complex issues around
how certain projects are taxed and how they might
affect residents and other junior taxing districts
like schools and fire districts and others, it
can get pretty complex pretty fast. And there's
a lot of people that have an interest in it.
Yeah. No, there was a lot of people that had
an interest, including, I remember at least two
or three times thinking, why does this group
care? Right. Like, I can't even, you know, six
degrees of Kevin Bacon to them and this bill.
Like, I don't, like, how and why do you care?
Right. And then you've got to make that phone
call and say, okay, enlighten me. What am I not
understanding here? Yeah. And, oh, I had no idea
that was part of. This issue. That's the other
piece that would pop up. How many times did we
like, we just figured this thing out yesterday
that, I mean, we'd been working on this for like
two years. And then we learned that, you know,
there's some, you know, other type of property
techs out there that we, nobody caught. And now
we've got to scramble to fix that. Right. Yeah.
It just, it was, you know, we talk about building
the plane while you're flying it as a bad thing,
but I'm also, you know, in a lot of cases. But
I think that's sort of what we were doing, but
I don't think there's a different way to do it.
I think that's just how it gets done. And I don't
know if that's the right connection, but it was
just sort of like, if the plane's not in the
air, nobody's going to care about it. So you
got to keep it in there. I'm making all these
bad metaphors. Probably going to crash into Rainier
where they're training for climbing and I don't
know anymore. Pro tip, don't crash your plane
into Rainier. But I mean, you talked about the
fact that it kind of goes back to, you know,
if we go back to the earlier part of our conversation
here on this podcast, we talked about the EPR
bill. We talked about it, you know, at the last
podcast too. This was the fifth year for the
EPR bill. right? Five years. And at some point,
somebody just has to put, you do your research,
you bring your people together as many as you
can, as many as you can think of, and you just
put something out there. And then, yeah, during
the session, you're flying whatever you put out
there and you're making adjustments, you know,
in flight, trying to keep it going and trying
to keep it being worked on, you know, keep the
interest in up on it, keep the momentum up on
it so that it just doesn't die somewhere. No
one cares about it anymore. But that's That is
the process. And, you know, you land that plane
for the session, sometimes, you know, at the
finish line and sometimes well short of it. We
ended up well short this year. Yeah. Right. The
bill, the bill stayed alive past cutoff, but
just never, we never really found kind of that
sweet spot that we could say, okay, we've got
enough people in agreement here that we think
we can take the next step or the next step or
the next step. Representative Ramel is a great
partner. I expect we'll be working on this again
during the interim. I expect this is going to
be probably a big part of your interim work to
try to refine it and come back next year with
another version that hopefully can gain a lot
more support than we found this year. Yeah, because
we get to pick up hopefully the plane wherever
we left it. Hopefully we get to pick it up as
is, dust it off and start from there so we don't
have to start from scratch. But, you know, but
again, similar to the bill that I talked about
earlier, I think this was also a very good example
of, you know, you mentioned we invited a lot
of stakeholders, but I would think between our
members, between the assessors and the treasurers,
there was a significant amount of energy that
was put into this. Yeah. That is not. part of
their traditional LSC duties or part of their
regular association duties. Like this was a project
that they were interested in and they walked
the hill, they knocked on doors with us, they
advocated for us, and they went through the whole
interim process with us. And I think that is
a huge piece of mostly the reason that it had
success was because this solution came from a
place of people that are out there doing this
work and experiencing. what is happening and
their voice was important. So I think that's
a huge learning opportunity as well to really
empower our members to engage in these processes
because their voices are important. Yeah. Well,
a lot more to come on that one. You know, Travis,
I always, you know, that question I asked you
at the beginning of, you know, how do you compare
this session to previous sessions? I always find
that every session is unique. You know what I
mean? It's hard to compare them. When you stack
up a bunch of sessions kind of in your work history,
it's a little easier to say, okay, that felt
more like a normal or an abnormal or whatever.
But every session is unique. There's always unique
topics to talk about. There's a lot of carryover
topics as well, but there's always something
eventful, I think, that happens every single
time. And what I love the most about the session
is the start. And then the second thing I love
most. about the session is the end. Because you
really do get this kind of start and finish and
then a period of opportunity to work on really
great projects like the bill we were just talking
about. And then you get to go try it again and
see if it works. And I think that's one of the
great things about what we do here at WASAC on
the policy team. I've been joking. I think I
joked with you a couple of times and others around
like this. the badges that Boy Scouts and Girl
Scouts get when they reach certain milestones
or have certain experiences. Yeah, I think they
call us merit badges. Yeah, merit badges. And
I feel like our work during session as lobbyists
and advocates for counties, I feel like there
were definitely some badges, merit badges that
I got this year that I hadn't before. I won't
go through all of them, but like - I feel like
making little badges for you now. Well, I think
we should all wear them and a sash. But I think
that should be all of us. I don't want to be
the only one. I think all of us need to celebrate
the experiences we've had that have informed
us. I think everyone will get behind the celebration,
but I think you might be the only one wearing
a mirror patch. Why do I feel like people are
going to start showing up with patches and badges
that they think are funny that I'm going to have
to wear next? They might. I'm going to keep my
mouth shut. All right. Well, Travis, good work
this session. Thanks. I'm glad you made it through.
I know it was pretty intense. It was a difficult
session. I think most people would agree with
that. It was a very long session for a long session
too, it felt like. Yeah. But I think, you know,
you and I talked about this yesterday. I think
the important thing to note is that we're all
still having fun with each other and you guys
are planning to get together to go like clamming.
So you guys are voluntarily seeing each other
next week after spending four intense months
together. And I think that's important to highlight
that we're all... still in a good place yeah
it's a good team a lot of good team work here
a lot of good personalities a lot of good professionals
who know how to work together and yeah, we battle
it out and we fight it out. But at the end of
the day, I'm grateful that after session, we
all just don't pack up our stuff and not talk
to each other for six weeks. Yeah. It's not a
family Thanksgiving dinner. Yeah. We're done.
We're done with you. Don't talk to me for six
more weeks. I'll see you at the 4th of July.
Yeah. I'm glad that's not the relationship we
have. So we're really lucky. frankly, and really
fortunate here at WASAC. Looking forward to getting
more merit badges next session. Yeah, let's all
look forward to that. Take care until then. All
right, thanks. Bye. Thanks for tuning in to County
Connection. Stay in the loop by subscribing to
us through your preferred podcasting app and
following us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram.
And don't forget to join The Hub, your go -to
source for the latest news and updates from the
Washington State Association of Counties. Until
next time, stay connected and stay informed.