WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.219 Mitch, do not use that. Mitch, use the part where 00:00:04.219 --> 00:00:08.279 Paul calls Bono Australian. Don't do it. Oh, 00:00:08.419 --> 00:00:14.400 man. Five bucks. No, that's not enough. Not happening. 00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:19.699 Welcome to County Connection. the official podcast 00:00:19.699 --> 00:00:22.000 of the Washington State Association of Counties, 00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:24.379 where we dive into the legislative issues shaping 00:00:24.379 --> 00:00:26.839 the future of our communities. From budgets to 00:00:26.839 --> 00:00:29.780 public safety, infrastructure to elections, we'll 00:00:29.780 --> 00:00:32.420 break down what's happening in Olympia and how 00:00:32.420 --> 00:00:34.399 it impacts counties from across the Evergreen 00:00:34.399 --> 00:00:37.500 State. Stay informed, stay engaged, and join 00:00:37.500 --> 00:00:40.079 us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:44.979 counties. Welcome everybody to the County Connection 00:00:44.979 --> 00:00:47.200 Podcast. I'm Paul Jewell, the Government Relations 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:48.979 Director for the Washington State Association 00:00:48.979 --> 00:00:51.359 of Counties, and I'm here bringing you actually 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:54.159 a very special podcast this morning, breaking 00:00:54.159 --> 00:00:57.939 news here in the legislature. Travis, how's things 00:00:57.939 --> 00:00:59.960 going for you? Welcome back. It's been a while 00:00:59.960 --> 00:01:02.659 since we've had you on. Yeah, it has been a while. 00:01:03.020 --> 00:01:06.280 Things have been really busy, but there was... 00:01:06.859 --> 00:01:10.040 um big news at two o 'clock this morning yeah 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:13.219 yeah let's get into that um for sure but it feels 00:01:13.219 --> 00:01:15.319 like you've been you've been off the podcast 00:01:15.319 --> 00:01:18.799 so long you need to remind people who you are 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:22.680 Travis Dutton, our policy coordinator, right? 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:25.219 Handling, not land use, you're handling solid 00:01:25.219 --> 00:01:29.659 waste and environmental issues, some energy issues 00:01:29.659 --> 00:01:32.680 for us this year. But we're here to talk a little 00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:34.599 bit about a solid waste bill, right? Yeah. Yeah. 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:37.180 We're here to talk about extended producer responsibility. 00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:42.939 So what bill number is that? It is, I don't know 00:01:42.939 --> 00:01:44.859 the version right now off the top of my head, 00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:50.090 but it is Senate Bill 5284. Okay. Extended producer 00:01:50.090 --> 00:01:52.569 responsibility for product packaging and paper 00:01:52.569 --> 00:01:54.709 products, right? Correct. Just rolls off the 00:01:54.709 --> 00:01:58.150 tongue. Yeah. It really does have a little bit 00:01:58.150 --> 00:01:59.849 of a sing to it, doesn't it? I think it's also 00:01:59.849 --> 00:02:02.150 referred to as the Recycling Reform Act. Okay. 00:02:02.230 --> 00:02:04.489 Got lots of names. Yeah. In the past, it's been 00:02:04.489 --> 00:02:08.289 called... The WRAP, the Washington... It's been 00:02:08.289 --> 00:02:10.469 different acronyms and different titles. Yeah. 00:02:10.469 --> 00:02:13.250 They had WRAP and they had REWRAP and all kinds 00:02:13.250 --> 00:02:16.849 of different stuff. But this particular policy 00:02:16.849 --> 00:02:19.680 has been considered by the... legislature for 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:21.740 i think is this the fifth year or the fourth 00:02:21.740 --> 00:02:25.180 year i want to say this is the fifth year um 00:02:25.180 --> 00:02:27.900 i know it's been in place all three years i've 00:02:27.900 --> 00:02:31.159 been working here and um before that so i know 00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:34.120 this is likely the fifth iteration okay and a 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:37.120 little probably a little surprisingly i mean 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:39.240 at least i was a little surprised by it we'd 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:41.139 heard some rumors and whatnot and i know that 00:02:41.139 --> 00:02:43.379 they were counting votes but it actually was 00:02:43.379 --> 00:02:47.539 voted out of the house yesterday and it's already 00:02:47.539 --> 00:02:49.280 been through the senate so this is going to become 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:52.759 law in washington state yeah yeah it was um it 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:55.060 had it was very close i know the votes were very 00:02:55.060 --> 00:02:56.439 close i should have written down the numbers 00:02:56.439 --> 00:02:58.560 before i came in here but um they were very very 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:01.300 close yeah it was 27 22 in the senate originally 00:03:01.300 --> 00:03:04.009 which is a you know that's only a five vote margin. 00:03:04.090 --> 00:03:06.050 And there were some Democrats, you know, this 00:03:06.050 --> 00:03:08.150 has been a very much a party line issue here 00:03:08.150 --> 00:03:10.969 in Washington between the R's and D's. But there 00:03:10.969 --> 00:03:13.550 were some Democrats that voted with the Republicans 00:03:13.550 --> 00:03:15.810 in the Senate. And then the same thing happened 00:03:15.810 --> 00:03:19.370 last night in the House. It was only 51 -45 with 00:03:19.370 --> 00:03:21.810 eight Democrats voting with the Republicans to 00:03:21.810 --> 00:03:27.250 say no. You know, usually you see policies. that 00:03:27.250 --> 00:03:30.669 have this kind of a close of a vote, you know, 00:03:30.669 --> 00:03:34.189 that are more along kind of ideological political 00:03:34.189 --> 00:03:38.500 lines. Like maybe it's, you know. you know, pro 00:03:38.500 --> 00:03:41.400 -choice policy or a gun control policy or something 00:03:41.400 --> 00:03:44.340 like that, where, you know, you have the Republicans 00:03:44.340 --> 00:03:46.560 firmly in one camp and the Democrats firmly in 00:03:46.560 --> 00:03:48.680 another. But this is really about solid waste 00:03:48.680 --> 00:03:51.379 management and recycling. Things that, you know, 00:03:51.400 --> 00:03:54.020 all of us think are good things in Washington 00:03:54.020 --> 00:03:56.240 state, right? We want our garbage to be handled 00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:59.199 properly. We want the environment to be protected. 00:03:59.379 --> 00:04:01.800 I think everyone supports recycling, maybe at 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:03.699 different levels, but everybody certainly does. 00:04:03.919 --> 00:04:07.530 But this one here, you know, to see such a sweeping 00:04:07.530 --> 00:04:10.889 policy come off the legislative floor with such 00:04:10.889 --> 00:04:14.710 a close vote, it makes me kind of question, you 00:04:14.710 --> 00:04:17.509 know, what's wrong with the policy versus, you 00:04:17.509 --> 00:04:21.589 know, why are people so worried about it and 00:04:21.589 --> 00:04:24.569 what sort of impact it's going to have in Washington 00:04:24.569 --> 00:04:27.360 state moving forward? Why don't... Why don't 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:30.540 you tell us just kind of briefly, remind us what 00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:34.000 this is all about. When you say EPR, what we 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:36.120 mean is extended producer responsibility, right? 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:38.160 We have some of these programs already in place 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:40.560 in Washington. How is this one different? What's 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:42.560 going to change? Yeah. So like you mentioned, 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:47.000 we have EPR programs in place for paint, electronics. 00:04:48.189 --> 00:04:51.449 There's a similar type of program for mercury 00:04:51.449 --> 00:04:54.050 -containing light bulbs. Okay, so those are those 00:04:54.050 --> 00:04:58.110 tubular lights? Yeah. So you're supposed to take 00:04:58.110 --> 00:05:00.430 those back. When you buy lights, you're supposed 00:05:00.430 --> 00:05:02.149 to take them back to basically where you bought 00:05:02.149 --> 00:05:05.670 them from, right? Yes. And so they take those 00:05:05.670 --> 00:05:08.810 back. Is that an EPR program? That's basically, 00:05:09.009 --> 00:05:12.470 in essence, it's an EPR program. It's structured 00:05:12.470 --> 00:05:15.480 a little bit differently in how... people that 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:17.420 buy light bulb pay for it, but it is essentially 00:05:17.420 --> 00:05:19.040 an EPR program. What happens to the light bulbs 00:05:19.040 --> 00:05:21.959 when I give them back? It depends on, well, with 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:25.060 the light bulbs, they're responsible for recapturing 00:05:25.060 --> 00:05:28.000 the mercury, recycling what parts of a light 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:29.660 bulb they can. It's the same with the electronics 00:05:29.660 --> 00:05:31.879 or the paint. It's a split between recycling 00:05:31.879 --> 00:05:35.060 and recovering valuable materials. And then also 00:05:35.060 --> 00:05:37.560 just making sure that all of the hazardous materials, 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:39.899 chemicals, or the, you know, like the mercury 00:05:39.899 --> 00:05:42.540 or the lead -based paints are all sent to the 00:05:42.540 --> 00:05:44.259 right type of a landfill. Well, who pays for 00:05:44.259 --> 00:05:46.259 them? that because i give them back for free 00:05:46.259 --> 00:05:48.779 the producers pay for that so the manufacturers 00:05:48.779 --> 00:05:52.300 of paint pay into washington's paint care program 00:05:52.300 --> 00:05:56.279 the light bulb program has a fee that you pay 00:05:56.279 --> 00:05:58.120 every time you purchase a light bulb similar 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:00.759 to tires or your car batteries so those costs 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:04.040 can get put back on the consumer so i mean technically 00:06:04.040 --> 00:06:06.160 i'm the one who's buying the light bulb that's 00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:08.220 got the mercury and all the problems in it right 00:06:08.220 --> 00:06:10.500 to use in a fixture that i have that i haven't 00:06:10.500 --> 00:06:13.439 changed out and so uh which I don't actually 00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:16.139 think I buy these anymore, but I did in the past. 00:06:16.199 --> 00:06:19.160 And so I pay an extra fee up front when I buy 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:20.759 the new light bulb. And then when I... turn the 00:06:20.759 --> 00:06:22.660 other one in, it doesn't cost me anything. Correct, 00:06:22.779 --> 00:06:24.920 yeah. You just have to take it back to the place. 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:27.040 And the same thing is true for electronics, and 00:06:27.040 --> 00:06:28.959 the same thing is true for paint, and the same 00:06:28.959 --> 00:06:32.000 thing is true for... Some of the newer EPR models, 00:06:32.220 --> 00:06:34.459 the ones, paint, electronic waste that have passed, 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:37.699 there is no identified fee that you pay when 00:06:37.699 --> 00:06:40.180 you buy a computer. You don't pay a disposal 00:06:40.180 --> 00:06:43.100 fee on top of it. When you buy paint, you don't 00:06:43.100 --> 00:06:45.339 pay a disposal fee or deposit on top of that. 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.220 It's all sort of baked into the business model 00:06:48.220 --> 00:06:51.379 for the paint or the electronics. And ultimately, 00:06:51.420 --> 00:06:54.600 for the portion of whatever they sell into Washington, 00:06:54.740 --> 00:06:56.740 they have to pay into those programs to take 00:06:56.740 --> 00:06:58.620 back their paint and make sure it's recovered, 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:01.680 recycled, reused, or disposed of appropriately. 00:07:02.019 --> 00:07:04.240 But it doesn't cost me anything when I take my 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:06.519 paint in to have it disposed of. Right. You should 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:08.439 be able to drop off your paint, your electronics. 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:10.439 Soon you'll be able to do the same thing with 00:07:10.439 --> 00:07:13.279 your batteries. But yeah, those programs are 00:07:13.279 --> 00:07:17.579 intended to be no direct cost to engage with 00:07:17.579 --> 00:07:20.779 for customers. So all of those programs that 00:07:20.779 --> 00:07:22.860 we're talking about, the paint, the light bulbs, 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:25.339 electronics, et cetera, they all focused on one 00:07:25.339 --> 00:07:27.100 particular product. And they seemed like they 00:07:27.100 --> 00:07:28.819 were dealing with something that was kind of 00:07:28.819 --> 00:07:32.279 a nuisance, right? Or was a contaminant in many 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:35.600 ways. So I think everybody looked at those pretty 00:07:35.600 --> 00:07:39.560 favorably. But this bill, 5284, that... you know, 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:41.379 is obviously pretty controversial, right? We 00:07:41.379 --> 00:07:43.560 talked about how it narrowly came out of both 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:47.639 the House and the Senate. This one goes way beyond 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:49.560 that, right? It's a much more expansive program. 00:07:49.660 --> 00:07:52.540 And in fact, when you listen to the, and I listened 00:07:52.540 --> 00:07:57.250 to a lot of the floor debate. The Democrats and 00:07:57.250 --> 00:07:59.189 the people who are really supporting the program 00:07:59.189 --> 00:08:02.149 talk about how it's going to fundamentally reshape 00:08:02.149 --> 00:08:04.790 how we recycle in Washington state and provide 00:08:04.790 --> 00:08:06.750 all kinds of benefits. Now, the opposers also 00:08:06.750 --> 00:08:09.329 talked about how it was fundamentally going to 00:08:09.329 --> 00:08:12.310 reshape recycling programs in Washington state, 00:08:12.370 --> 00:08:16.709 but not in a good way. So how does this go beyond 00:08:16.709 --> 00:08:20.029 those programs that you just described? You know, 00:08:20.050 --> 00:08:22.269 we talked about it being paper products and product 00:08:22.269 --> 00:08:25.189 packaging. Kind of describe for us what that 00:08:25.189 --> 00:08:29.230 means. And then, you know, how is it going to 00:08:29.230 --> 00:08:32.669 fundamentally reshape recycling? And will it 00:08:32.669 --> 00:08:35.029 be for the good or will it be for the bad? I 00:08:35.029 --> 00:08:39.169 think that's one of the, that reason is one of 00:08:39.169 --> 00:08:41.639 the reasons that there was quite this. One of 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:43.860 the reasons that there was such a split is because 00:08:43.860 --> 00:08:46.399 this is going to be a big, big change for the 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:48.940 state of Washington and how our recycling programs 00:08:48.940 --> 00:08:52.320 are run. Big, big changes come with big, big 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:56.649 questions and uncertainties. And I think a lot 00:08:56.649 --> 00:08:59.169 of those uncertainties played out in the voting 00:08:59.169 --> 00:09:01.210 process. I think there are some people that feel 00:09:01.210 --> 00:09:03.570 like there are still better ways to achieve increased 00:09:03.570 --> 00:09:06.870 recycling or better recycling services in the 00:09:06.870 --> 00:09:09.129 state and other folks that feel like this is 00:09:09.129 --> 00:09:13.169 the best path forward to do that. So as far as 00:09:13.169 --> 00:09:16.450 restructuring goes, you know, right now, counties 00:09:16.450 --> 00:09:20.509 are responsible for ensuring that recycling services 00:09:20.509 --> 00:09:22.990 are available, that outreach and education is 00:09:22.990 --> 00:09:26.480 taking place. that materials um you know and 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:28.519 we get to decide whether or not materials go 00:09:28.519 --> 00:09:33.580 on a recycling list or pull or not um so counties 00:09:33.580 --> 00:09:35.679 actually decide what gets recycled in their county 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:38.120 and what doesn't yes okay often what counties 00:09:38.120 --> 00:09:40.759 will fall into though is is sort of defaulting 00:09:40.759 --> 00:09:42.820 to what the market will take if there's a market 00:09:42.820 --> 00:09:45.740 for something like a used plastic you know virgin 00:09:45.740 --> 00:09:48.799 if there's a market for something then it's recyclable 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:50.759 technically we'll put it on our list because 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:52.919 it's something that we can provide at a lower 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:55.039 cost to our customers well that just makes sense 00:09:55.039 --> 00:09:58.350 right i mean if you can collect something and 00:09:58.350 --> 00:10:00.830 then sell it to someone who wants to recycle 00:10:00.830 --> 00:10:02.549 it, even if you're going to break even or make 00:10:02.549 --> 00:10:04.429 a little bit of money, that's a good program. 00:10:04.549 --> 00:10:06.129 But if you're going to collect something that 00:10:06.129 --> 00:10:08.429 nobody wants and separate that, well, then you're 00:10:08.429 --> 00:10:10.230 just, you're just kind of separating it for nothing. 00:10:10.250 --> 00:10:12.909 Right. And that just increased costs. Yeah. I 00:10:12.909 --> 00:10:14.870 think, and that kind of touches on one of the 00:10:14.870 --> 00:10:18.259 other. Parts of the split, too, is that for those 00:10:18.259 --> 00:10:21.779 products earlier, paints, batteries, electronics, 00:10:22.139 --> 00:10:25.240 there weren't necessarily programs in existence 00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:29.039 where you could take your laptop or your household 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:32.340 batteries or your decades of stored paint that 00:10:32.340 --> 00:10:33.419 you have in your garage. Yeah, that stuff was 00:10:33.419 --> 00:10:35.220 just going in the landfill, right? Right, where 00:10:35.220 --> 00:10:38.360 it creates environmental hazards, or it was being 00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:40.539 shipped someplace where it was creating environmental 00:10:40.539 --> 00:10:43.360 hazards elsewhere. This bill focuses on quite 00:10:43.360 --> 00:10:45.960 a few products that already... have a container. 00:10:46.649 --> 00:10:48.889 at people's curbs that they can put these things 00:10:48.889 --> 00:10:52.250 in, your pop bottles, your cardboard boxes, you 00:10:52.250 --> 00:10:53.870 know, a lot of the packaging that you bring home 00:10:53.870 --> 00:10:56.649 from the grocery store. Does like a can for like 00:10:56.649 --> 00:11:00.690 soup or beans or vegetables, like, you know, 00:11:00.690 --> 00:11:02.649 you open that, like a tin can, you open it up, 00:11:02.730 --> 00:11:04.870 dump out the stuff. Is that considered a container? 00:11:05.129 --> 00:11:07.490 Yes. Under this bill? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that 00:11:07.490 --> 00:11:10.350 would be packaging. So, you know, that's one 00:11:10.350 --> 00:11:12.750 of the concerns that people had was we already 00:11:12.750 --> 00:11:15.110 have a system for this in Washington. And Washington 00:11:15.110 --> 00:11:18.379 is one of the And Washington was a leader in 00:11:18.379 --> 00:11:20.919 performance, how well people participated in 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:22.840 that system. But one of the things that - Yeah, 00:11:22.860 --> 00:11:25.299 I would, not to interrupt too much, but I would 00:11:25.299 --> 00:11:27.379 say most people would, I think most people would 00:11:27.379 --> 00:11:29.759 say, just kind of from a layman's point of view, 00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:32.100 someone who maybe isn't super involved, they 00:11:32.100 --> 00:11:34.399 would say that our recycling - System works pretty 00:11:34.399 --> 00:11:36.200 good here in Washington, right? Recycling is 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:40.259 widely available. You can drive it to the transfer 00:11:40.259 --> 00:11:42.299 station or recycling place yourself if you want 00:11:42.299 --> 00:11:43.960 to. There's curbside where you mix everything 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:46.059 together. There's feels like wherever you go 00:11:46.059 --> 00:11:47.919 where there's a lot of people, like if you go 00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:50.980 to a stadium or an airport or a bus stop or not 00:11:50.980 --> 00:11:53.940 a bus stop necessarily, but like a bus transfer 00:11:53.940 --> 00:11:55.759 station or something, there's always recycling 00:11:55.759 --> 00:11:59.220 bins. So what is this going to do that improves 00:11:59.220 --> 00:12:02.340 that from kind of everybody's point of view? 00:12:02.840 --> 00:12:04.620 One of the struggles that counties have right 00:12:04.620 --> 00:12:08.779 now is the ability to communicate with our residents 00:12:08.779 --> 00:12:11.799 about how to engage in your recycling system. 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:14.500 So you get things in the mail or maybe you have 00:12:14.500 --> 00:12:16.679 a poster on your wall or a flyer or something 00:12:16.679 --> 00:12:18.899 up that tells you what you can put in your recycling 00:12:18.899 --> 00:12:21.480 bin, what you can't put in your recycling bin. 00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:25.600 That's a primary county responsibility. And that's 00:12:25.600 --> 00:12:27.600 something that we take very seriously and something 00:12:27.600 --> 00:12:29.740 that we work very hard on to make sure that. 00:12:30.059 --> 00:12:32.039 that recycling system is being used appropriately, 00:12:32.220 --> 00:12:34.399 that the right things are going in and the bad 00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:36.340 things are not going in that kind of ruin everything 00:12:36.340 --> 00:12:38.500 else. One of the biggest challenges with that, 00:12:38.559 --> 00:12:40.539 though, is that we don't really have any connection 00:12:40.539 --> 00:12:42.759 with the people that make the things that go 00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:46.100 in that recycling bin. So we have to be able 00:12:46.100 --> 00:12:48.679 to communicate to our residents how to recycle 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:51.940 without knowing what changes are going to be 00:12:51.940 --> 00:12:54.399 made to certain types of products or certain 00:12:54.399 --> 00:12:57.159 types of materials. And so what that does is 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:00.700 it really... passes on some confusion or it creates 00:13:00.700 --> 00:13:02.980 some confusion in people that use the system. 00:13:03.019 --> 00:13:05.500 Because if you buy a new type of product at the 00:13:05.500 --> 00:13:08.820 grocery store, you are likely to default on putting 00:13:08.820 --> 00:13:10.440 it in your recycling bin, whether it belongs 00:13:10.440 --> 00:13:13.159 there or not. And so just the constantly changing 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:15.299 flow of materials. Is this going to change that 00:13:15.299 --> 00:13:17.620 somehow? It's going to create statewide lists 00:13:17.620 --> 00:13:21.059 that will be consistent across the state and 00:13:21.059 --> 00:13:25.509 are... because the producers now have a stake. 00:13:25.629 --> 00:13:27.590 So we should go back, though, because I don't 00:13:27.590 --> 00:13:30.169 think I explained that this model will require 00:13:30.169 --> 00:13:34.509 the producers to fund an organization that makes 00:13:34.509 --> 00:13:37.059 sure that... all of the products that are covered 00:13:37.059 --> 00:13:40.539 under this bill are collected and recycled and 00:13:40.539 --> 00:13:44.100 put back into sort of the circle of life. It's 00:13:44.100 --> 00:13:46.840 not the word I'm looking for here, but put back 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:49.639 into products and recycled into new things. Kind 00:13:49.639 --> 00:13:51.519 of that circular economy that they talk about, 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:54.639 right? So you produce something, it goes and 00:13:54.639 --> 00:13:57.440 gets sold by a consumer, they consume it, the 00:13:57.440 --> 00:14:00.600 leftover residual, in this case product packaging, 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:02.960 gets recycled and then gets... put back into 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.620 new material that then gets sold again by a consumer 00:14:05.620 --> 00:14:07.779 who consumes it. Right. That's, that's kind of 00:14:07.779 --> 00:14:10.019 the circular economy. I assume that's what you're 00:14:10.019 --> 00:14:12.480 referring to. Yes. That was much more eloquent 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:14.039 than the Lion King reference. You were giving 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.159 some really nice hand signals that of course 00:14:16.159 --> 00:14:17.960 people can't hear it on podcast. It's a little 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:20.519 harder. Yeah. Making circles with fingers. I'll 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.259 make sure I do that next time. Nobody can see 00:14:22.259 --> 00:14:25.259 you do that, but that's okay. That's why podcasts 00:14:25.259 --> 00:14:30.740 are so much fun. So, so, So you said they have 00:14:30.740 --> 00:14:32.259 to create this organization that's responsible 00:14:32.259 --> 00:14:35.179 for that? Yeah. It's called the Producer Responsibility 00:14:35.179 --> 00:14:37.960 Organization. We'll refer to it as the PRO from 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:40.740 now on. We'll get lost in the acronym for sure. 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:45.139 Who runs it? It's an independent nonprofit organization 00:14:45.139 --> 00:14:51.639 that is funded by... producers, but not operated 00:14:51.639 --> 00:14:54.279 directly by producers. There's a lot of legalese 00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:57.320 on their connection to producers and who can 00:14:57.320 --> 00:15:00.240 be on that organization. But really, it's a nonprofit 00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:02.580 organization that's intended to go around and 00:15:02.580 --> 00:15:06.120 look at how recycling is being handled now, what's 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:09.679 necessary to... increase the level of service 00:15:09.679 --> 00:15:13.000 to more residents, give curbside recycling to 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:15.379 more residents, create more opportunities for 00:15:15.379 --> 00:15:18.580 public recycling, as well as taking a look at 00:15:18.580 --> 00:15:21.179 the infrastructure that's necessary to transport 00:15:21.179 --> 00:15:24.600 recycling, to process recycling. And it's that 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:27.779 pro's responsibility to then fund it either through 00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:32.090 the existing system or to directly... create 00:15:32.090 --> 00:15:34.970 new infrastructure and new programs, outreach 00:15:34.970 --> 00:15:39.070 and education, et cetera. So this pro, it's a 00:15:39.070 --> 00:15:42.690 private nonprofit. It's funded by the manufacturers? 00:15:43.129 --> 00:15:47.429 Yes. So by manufacturer, like I'm Coca -Cola, 00:15:47.529 --> 00:15:50.190 I sell Coke, I sell sugar water, right? That's 00:15:50.190 --> 00:15:52.750 flavored and caramel colored. And I have these 00:15:52.750 --> 00:15:56.250 cans or I have these bottles, right? Or maybe 00:15:56.250 --> 00:15:59.409 I have, you know, logo cups or whatever. I'm 00:15:59.409 --> 00:16:03.429 now responsible for recycling these cans or these 00:16:03.429 --> 00:16:07.710 bottles, and I do it through this pro. And does 00:16:07.710 --> 00:16:10.809 the pro charge me for how much product I put 00:16:10.809 --> 00:16:12.830 in the marketplace? Is that how that works? You 00:16:12.830 --> 00:16:14.950 have to pay a fee based on the amount of material 00:16:14.950 --> 00:16:16.730 or the amount of products that you're selling 00:16:16.730 --> 00:16:20.269 into the state. Okay. And there are also... Yes. 00:16:20.370 --> 00:16:23.330 Okay. So I'm a soda company, like I just mentioned. 00:16:23.490 --> 00:16:26.129 Those products are valuable though, right? We 00:16:26.129 --> 00:16:29.590 recycle plastic bottles now and we recycle aluminum 00:16:29.590 --> 00:16:32.149 cans and we get money for those. Does that get 00:16:32.149 --> 00:16:36.759 factored in here? It does. Because I would assume, 00:16:36.820 --> 00:16:42.019 does the pro sell? I mean, if the pro is responsible 00:16:42.019 --> 00:16:44.460 for setting up the system to collect these things, 00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:47.559 does the pro now own those things and sells them 00:16:47.559 --> 00:16:49.440 back into the marketplace? There's a couple of 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:51.480 different ways. Materials will make it to the 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:56.419 markets. So materials will still go in people's 00:16:56.419 --> 00:16:59.740 curbside container. Ideally, and hopefully more 00:16:59.740 --> 00:17:01.700 products will be able to go into that curbside 00:17:01.700 --> 00:17:05.720 container. Once the program is in place, those 00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:07.920 materials will still go to the MRF. The MRF will 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:10.900 still, sorry, those materials will still go to 00:17:10.900 --> 00:17:13.759 the facility that sorts them, the material recovery 00:17:13.759 --> 00:17:17.660 facility or MRF. The pro is responsible. Look 00:17:17.660 --> 00:17:19.259 at you catching yourself with these. I know, 00:17:19.299 --> 00:17:21.420 right? You did it perfectly. Way to go, Travis. 00:17:21.579 --> 00:17:23.000 No, I lost track of what I was going to say. 00:17:23.299 --> 00:17:27.559 Something about a MRF? That's the host's strategy 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:30.539 for distracting you. A lot of the current system 00:17:30.539 --> 00:17:33.720 is still going to be in place. goal is to beef 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:36.819 that up, expand those services to more people, 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:41.339 create more opportunities to engage in the recycling 00:17:41.339 --> 00:17:44.440 system. But it also creates a stronger connection 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:47.700 between producers and what it takes to recycle 00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:50.859 the products that they manufacture. So the idea 00:17:50.859 --> 00:17:54.440 is that having... financial responsibility in 00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:56.380 collecting and recycling the things that you 00:17:56.380 --> 00:18:00.339 make incentivizes better design upstream to make 00:18:00.339 --> 00:18:03.599 sure it can be more easily, more efficiently 00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:06.140 recycled downstream. Well, I was going to ask 00:18:06.140 --> 00:18:07.500 that question. There were two questions that 00:18:07.500 --> 00:18:08.960 I was going to ask, but that was one of them. 00:18:09.180 --> 00:18:12.579 So I'm glad you kind of went there. So the idea 00:18:12.579 --> 00:18:15.359 that I'm a product manufacturer and I have to 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:17.910 now participate. in this program because I've 00:18:17.910 --> 00:18:20.210 got product packaging or I've got paper or whatever. 00:18:20.430 --> 00:18:22.630 You know, there's a couple of ways to go, right? 00:18:22.710 --> 00:18:24.930 I can try to make sure that I'm using materials 00:18:24.930 --> 00:18:26.970 that have value that can be recycled so that 00:18:26.970 --> 00:18:29.730 I can minimize my cost. Or the other option is 00:18:29.730 --> 00:18:32.109 to minimize packaging. I mean, sometimes you 00:18:32.109 --> 00:18:35.230 get, you know, you buy this little tiny thing 00:18:35.230 --> 00:18:38.829 in this giant package that's meant to attract 00:18:38.829 --> 00:18:41.190 attention on the shelf, but really there's a 00:18:41.190 --> 00:18:43.529 lot of money spent on that packaging. completely 00:18:43.529 --> 00:18:46.990 useless and can never be reused like those blister 00:18:46.990 --> 00:18:49.210 packs you know they're wrapped in that really 00:18:49.210 --> 00:18:52.589 hard cardboard you know whatever it may be those 00:18:52.589 --> 00:18:54.049 are always really fun to try you need like the 00:18:54.049 --> 00:18:56.950 jaws of life to get like like an sd card out 00:18:56.950 --> 00:19:01.029 of a package like a blowtorch you know you want 00:19:01.029 --> 00:19:03.569 to hit it with your card full speed just to open 00:19:03.569 --> 00:19:07.230 it um so you know and that stuff could be considered 00:19:07.230 --> 00:19:09.589 wasteful right so there's some strong incentives 00:19:09.589 --> 00:19:12.170 here to maybe change the way that product packaging 00:19:12.490 --> 00:19:15.130 is used in our state and maybe in the nation. 00:19:15.349 --> 00:19:18.269 Yeah. I mean, you know, it'll be interesting 00:19:18.269 --> 00:19:20.130 to see how that plays out because a lot of that 00:19:20.130 --> 00:19:22.589 packaging is designed for security reasons. You 00:19:22.589 --> 00:19:23.990 know, a lot of those things are big packages, 00:19:24.049 --> 00:19:25.690 so you can't run out of the store with them as 00:19:25.690 --> 00:19:28.009 easily. Or, you know, they need that packaging 00:19:28.009 --> 00:19:29.769 to protect the thing that's in them. So it'll 00:19:29.769 --> 00:19:32.710 be interesting to see what... if any, packaging 00:19:32.710 --> 00:19:35.930 changes we see in the near future. But that idea 00:19:35.930 --> 00:19:39.130 is to, right now, that blister package is not 00:19:39.130 --> 00:19:42.009 recyclable in every program across the state. 00:19:42.170 --> 00:19:43.890 Right. That's a really good example of something 00:19:43.890 --> 00:19:46.130 that's not. And it would be under this program. 00:19:46.349 --> 00:19:48.410 It would be. And that sort of standardization 00:19:48.410 --> 00:19:51.390 would occur across the state. That is, yes. One 00:19:51.390 --> 00:19:54.869 of the requirements is that lists are created 00:19:54.869 --> 00:19:57.630 that are consistent across the state for what 00:19:57.630 --> 00:20:00.029 can be collected in curbside containers and then 00:20:00.029 --> 00:20:02.210 what needs to be collected. through drop -off 00:20:02.210 --> 00:20:04.930 programs. Certain things will always need to 00:20:04.930 --> 00:20:07.109 be kept separate. Well, I think most people would 00:20:07.109 --> 00:20:08.809 have to consider that a bit of an improvement, 00:20:08.910 --> 00:20:11.470 especially the people who know about recycling 00:20:11.470 --> 00:20:15.150 in the system. You certainly work with our solid 00:20:15.150 --> 00:20:16.930 waste managers on a regular basis. You guys go 00:20:16.930 --> 00:20:20.410 deep into this stuff, way deeper than anybody 00:20:20.410 --> 00:20:24.529 else would even be interested in going. We were 00:20:24.529 --> 00:20:26.049 actually thinking about starting our own sub 00:20:26.049 --> 00:20:29.650 -podcast. Just on this. Mitch is not allowed 00:20:29.650 --> 00:20:30.849 to name it, though, because he's going to have 00:20:30.849 --> 00:20:33.009 something about talking trash. Talking trash 00:20:33.009 --> 00:20:35.710 with Travis. Yeah, that's a great name. Traffic. 00:20:35.890 --> 00:20:37.670 You don't like that. Trashes. We'll work on that. 00:20:37.769 --> 00:20:41.230 Sorry. No worries. But the other piece to this. 00:20:42.119 --> 00:20:45.279 is, you know, we did some research with that 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:48.440 group a few years ago, and there is a lot of 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:50.900 variation from county, even counties that are 00:20:50.900 --> 00:20:54.019 right next door to each other in what is allowed 00:20:54.019 --> 00:20:57.039 to be recycled and what's not. And that can be 00:20:57.039 --> 00:20:59.160 really confusing for folks. I mean, if you're 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:01.259 in one county and they're accepting glass, and 00:21:01.259 --> 00:21:02.660 then you go to the next county and they're not 00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:05.119 accepting glass, right? Or in one county, they're 00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:07.279 taking mixed paper and in another county, they're 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:10.720 only taking cardboard. And that's a lot of change. 00:21:10.859 --> 00:21:12.619 And it's really hard for people to understand 00:21:12.619 --> 00:21:14.660 what goes in the bin and what doesn't go in the 00:21:14.660 --> 00:21:20.039 bin. I work in this industry with you. My family 00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:22.099 blows it all the time. I am always out there 00:21:22.099 --> 00:21:24.500 saying, that's not recyclable. That's not recyclable. 00:21:24.579 --> 00:21:27.240 Throw that in the trash. And they look at me 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:30.589 like I'm crazy. You know, it's kind of a you 00:21:30.589 --> 00:21:33.109 want to get it right. Otherwise, like you said, 00:21:33.170 --> 00:21:34.289 you're putting the wrong things in the wrong 00:21:34.289 --> 00:21:36.349 places, which creates contamination and ruins 00:21:36.349 --> 00:21:38.109 the whole batch for, you know, anybody else. 00:21:38.109 --> 00:21:40.609 It's like throwing a, you know, cigarette butt 00:21:40.609 --> 00:21:44.130 into an apple pie. Not so good at the end. No, 00:21:44.170 --> 00:21:48.230 no. That sounds awful. I would imagine. It's 00:21:48.230 --> 00:21:49.529 funny you mentioned the other thing. It's not 00:21:49.529 --> 00:21:51.150 an apple pie I want to eat. No. No, I'm trying 00:21:51.150 --> 00:21:52.509 to think if there's anybody that would. I can't 00:21:52.509 --> 00:21:54.589 think of anybody that wants to eat tobacco apple 00:21:54.589 --> 00:21:57.230 pie. But it's funny you mentioned the family 00:21:57.230 --> 00:21:59.109 thing, too, because when I used to do outreach 00:21:59.109 --> 00:22:01.480 and education for... county solid waste programs, 00:22:01.660 --> 00:22:04.380 tabling booths out at events and fairs and things. 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.559 I would say 50 % of the people that came up to 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:09.900 talk to me, I was settling some type of marital 00:22:09.900 --> 00:22:12.160 or family dispute about what needs to happen 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:14.380 with something in the house. As far as recycling 00:22:14.380 --> 00:22:16.559 goes? Yeah. It almost became where I need to, 00:22:16.579 --> 00:22:18.000 it was like, I'm going to charge people because 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.559 this is therapy or like couples therapy because 00:22:20.559 --> 00:22:24.630 the... One is trying to get me to prove the other 00:22:24.630 --> 00:22:27.990 one wrong or right. And then they're hashing 00:22:27.990 --> 00:22:30.829 that out in front of me. And it was pretty funny. 00:22:31.269 --> 00:22:34.150 But it was amazing how often I was out there. 00:22:34.269 --> 00:22:35.890 Feels like you could have written a blog post 00:22:35.890 --> 00:22:37.470 about that. I probably should have. Just started 00:22:37.470 --> 00:22:39.490 like, these are the people that came up and talked 00:22:39.490 --> 00:22:41.829 to me today. And these are the marital disputes 00:22:41.829 --> 00:22:45.210 I solved today. Life and times of a solid waste 00:22:45.210 --> 00:22:47.369 consultant. Maybe I should put on my resume, 00:22:47.509 --> 00:22:50.130 like saved 50 plus marriages. Yeah, that's perfect. 00:22:50.670 --> 00:22:53.029 Recycling based divorce. Yeah. And then every 00:22:53.029 --> 00:22:56.009 time you save another one, you can add another 00:22:56.009 --> 00:22:57.809 one. And pretty soon you'll just have to be like 00:22:57.809 --> 00:22:59.930 billions and billions saved. But it's hard. I 00:22:59.930 --> 00:23:02.769 mean, it's hard. Like I have to do this. My wife 00:23:02.769 --> 00:23:04.869 too, like she's had to live with me. I still 00:23:04.869 --> 00:23:06.329 point out all the garbage trucks around town. 00:23:06.329 --> 00:23:10.190 I can't imagine how challenging that is. I'm 00:23:10.190 --> 00:23:12.589 not allowed to point out. uh, the semi trucks 00:23:12.589 --> 00:23:14.230 or the vehicles that are moving garbage around 00:23:14.230 --> 00:23:18.349 anymore. Um, she's just over that. Um, but in 00:23:18.349 --> 00:23:20.769 my head, but yeah. Um, I can't, I can't believe 00:23:20.769 --> 00:23:23.549 she'd be over that. I mean, that sounds so charming 00:23:23.549 --> 00:23:26.730 and romantic that, I mean, you, you're a wild 00:23:26.730 --> 00:23:29.450 Friday night. I can only, I can only imagine. 00:23:30.049 --> 00:23:31.710 It's pretty great. I'm like, let's go down to 00:23:31.710 --> 00:23:33.170 the railroad tracks and watch all the garbage 00:23:33.170 --> 00:23:38.500 trains go by. Well, let's get back to my other 00:23:38.500 --> 00:23:42.480 question because I was curious about this producer 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:45.299 responsibility organization or this pro and how 00:23:45.299 --> 00:23:47.599 they're now responsible for paying for the system. 00:23:47.720 --> 00:23:50.920 And I kind of use myself as an example as a manufacturer 00:23:50.920 --> 00:23:53.200 that has product packaging and how that would 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:55.160 work. Sounds like I'm going to have to pay to 00:23:55.160 --> 00:23:57.460 be part of that. But how does this fall on the 00:23:57.460 --> 00:24:00.140 consumer, this new program? Because right now, 00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:04.640 if I'm recycling... I don't have curbside service. 00:24:04.779 --> 00:24:09.039 I live out in the county. And so I collect my 00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:11.539 recycling and then I take it in. And there's, 00:24:11.539 --> 00:24:13.480 you know, some different bins, you know, some 00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:15.519 that have bottles and some that have cardboard 00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:17.619 and some that have magazines and, you know, on 00:24:17.619 --> 00:24:20.099 and on and on. Milk jugs, right? And so I just 00:24:20.099 --> 00:24:22.859 kind of put them in the right place and I do 00:24:22.859 --> 00:24:24.960 it for free. It doesn't cost me any money. I 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:27.240 can go there anytime, you know, six days a week 00:24:27.240 --> 00:24:29.759 whenever they're open. It's just kind of a... 00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.519 pop in, get it done and go. Other people have 00:24:32.519 --> 00:24:34.799 curbside recycling and I know that they pay for 00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:38.339 that, right? There's a cost doing that. How is 00:24:38.339 --> 00:24:41.079 that going to change under this new system? Is 00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:43.099 it going to change? Are we going to see any different? 00:24:43.539 --> 00:24:44.920 Is it going to be cheaper? Is it going to be 00:24:44.920 --> 00:24:46.759 more expensive? Am I going to have to go pay 00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:50.099 to drop this stuff off now? What about curbside? 00:24:50.319 --> 00:24:52.759 This is one of the areas where it gets really 00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:56.119 complicated. So I'll try to see if I can break 00:24:56.119 --> 00:24:58.319 it down at the right level. So as I mentioned 00:24:58.319 --> 00:25:01.019 earlier, the pro is responsible for funding this 00:25:01.019 --> 00:25:04.279 program, but not completely. There are still 00:25:04.279 --> 00:25:07.380 some costs that the rate payers or the customers 00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:09.180 are still expected to pay. So in the example 00:25:09.180 --> 00:25:12.180 you gave, if you go to your transfer station 00:25:12.180 --> 00:25:15.480 to drop off your recyclables, that is likely 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:17.759 to still be an option and is likely to still 00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:21.180 be free. Because your county is providing that 00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:22.920 for you. It's a service that they're providing. 00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:26.150 That's a big load off of my... Mine. I was worried 00:25:26.150 --> 00:25:27.849 I was going to have to start paying to do that. 00:25:27.890 --> 00:25:30.829 So that's good. You might also be in an area 00:25:30.829 --> 00:25:34.369 where they are expanding curbside recycling service. 00:25:34.450 --> 00:25:37.529 So you might get curbside recycling service in 00:25:37.529 --> 00:25:39.210 your neighborhood if you don't currently have 00:25:39.210 --> 00:25:41.849 it. Okay. It's not going to be everywhere. Obviously, 00:25:41.930 --> 00:25:43.509 if somebody, you know, they're not going to send 00:25:43.509 --> 00:25:45.890 a garbage or a recycling truck 100 miles down 00:25:45.890 --> 00:25:48.130 the road to pick up one person's recycling container. 00:25:48.349 --> 00:25:51.569 So it should be based upon where it makes sense 00:25:51.569 --> 00:25:55.009 to provide curbside recycling. don't have curbside 00:25:55.009 --> 00:25:58.829 recycling, that will be an option for people 00:25:58.829 --> 00:26:01.309 in some places around the state where it's not 00:26:01.309 --> 00:26:03.430 available currently. And you will have to pay 00:26:03.430 --> 00:26:09.009 for that service. But because the pro is paying 00:26:09.009 --> 00:26:12.329 for most of it, it will not be as high as you 00:26:12.329 --> 00:26:15.410 would have paid a year ago. And if you have recycling 00:26:15.410 --> 00:26:19.630 service curbside now, your bill will go down 00:26:19.630 --> 00:26:24.009 over time as the pro As the program starts up, 00:26:24.049 --> 00:26:26.869 as the pro becomes responsible for paying for 00:26:26.869 --> 00:26:30.349 the program, your curbside recycling bill should 00:26:30.349 --> 00:26:33.670 go down. Okay, so it'll be cheaper, at least 00:26:33.670 --> 00:26:35.670 for the recycling portion of it. Correct, yes. 00:26:35.930 --> 00:26:38.109 So you mentioned that not all the costs are covered. 00:26:38.349 --> 00:26:42.329 Previous bills that the legislature had proposed, 00:26:42.690 --> 00:26:44.869 because as we mentioned at the outset, this is, 00:26:44.869 --> 00:26:46.670 I think, the fifth year this has been considered. 00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:49.359 Previous bills did cover it all. Is that something 00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:51.500 new in this bill? When the bill was introduced 00:26:51.500 --> 00:26:53.119 this year, it covered all of it. It was fully 00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:55.240 funded. That is something that changed throughout 00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:58.240 this session. That was something that was adopted. 00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:02.240 I can go into the why, but that was new this 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:05.160 year. But it's also inspired or modeled after 00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:08.440 an extended producer responsibility program out 00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:11.000 of Minnesota. Okay. So they've looked at that 00:27:11.000 --> 00:27:12.859 Minnesota version. They decided that was a better 00:27:12.859 --> 00:27:15.099 version. So that's what's in this bill. So not 00:27:15.099 --> 00:27:18.099 all of the... the costs are covered, but the 00:27:18.099 --> 00:27:21.519 majority at, at, at say like full implementation, 00:27:21.740 --> 00:27:23.640 what does that, what does that majority? 90%. 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:27.299 Okay. At least they say at least 90%, but 90 00:27:27.299 --> 00:27:30.519 % is the, so it, what that looks like is that 00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:33.089 you would be paying. 10 % of what you would have 00:27:33.089 --> 00:27:34.829 been paying for your curbside recycling service. 00:27:34.849 --> 00:27:36.750 And it'll be listed out on your bill, how much 00:27:36.750 --> 00:27:38.809 is being funded by the pro versus how much you're 00:27:38.809 --> 00:27:41.930 still paying. I see. That's interesting. I was 00:27:41.930 --> 00:27:45.049 listening to the debate, not last night, not 00:27:45.049 --> 00:27:48.109 at 2 a .m., but I was listening to it this morning 00:27:48.109 --> 00:27:50.490 because, you know, you and I talked and I said, 00:27:50.509 --> 00:27:53.450 hey, let's get this podcast out. Let's do a breaking 00:27:53.450 --> 00:27:55.250 news one. But I wanted to kind of see what the 00:27:55.250 --> 00:27:59.410 reactions, excuse me, were and kind of what the 00:27:59.410 --> 00:28:01.660 discussion was on the floor. And there were two 00:28:01.660 --> 00:28:05.940 things that were really thematic in the discussions, 00:28:06.019 --> 00:28:08.920 especially from the people who were opposed to 00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:12.200 the policy. Number one, they look at this pro 00:28:12.200 --> 00:28:17.660 as being given a lot of authority and a lot of 00:28:17.660 --> 00:28:20.880 control over recycling in Washington state without 00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:25.359 much oversight. And I think by that, what they 00:28:25.359 --> 00:28:27.359 really talk about is the fact that, you know, 00:28:27.380 --> 00:28:30.380 who's going to control the pricing here? Who's 00:28:30.380 --> 00:28:34.529 to say the pro doesn't just, you know? hire a 00:28:34.529 --> 00:28:36.650 bunch of people and pay them really great wages, 00:28:36.750 --> 00:28:40.589 which is good, but at a much higher cost over 00:28:40.589 --> 00:28:44.029 time to the service recipients, right? That 90 00:28:44.029 --> 00:28:47.309 % suddenly is no longer 90 % of what the costs 00:28:47.309 --> 00:28:51.430 are today, but 90 % of a much higher number where 00:28:51.430 --> 00:28:55.069 these private entities are essentially really 00:28:55.069 --> 00:28:59.509 profiting handsomely through this. producer responsibility 00:28:59.509 --> 00:29:02.089 organization and where are the checks and balances 00:29:02.089 --> 00:29:04.869 on that. And then the second really important 00:29:04.869 --> 00:29:09.069 talking point maybe or kind of train the thought 00:29:09.069 --> 00:29:11.410 that they were going down constantly was you 00:29:11.410 --> 00:29:16.150 say, and I don't mean you, but the proposers 00:29:16.150 --> 00:29:17.890 of this policy or the supporters of the policy 00:29:17.890 --> 00:29:20.609 say, this is going to be better for consumers. 00:29:20.710 --> 00:29:21.890 We're going to get better service. It's going 00:29:21.890 --> 00:29:24.609 to cost us less. But there's going to be a cost 00:29:24.609 --> 00:29:27.380 definitely to the participants, the producers 00:29:27.380 --> 00:29:30.539 who aren't paying that cost today, doesn't that 00:29:30.539 --> 00:29:33.539 mean it's actually going to cost you more at 00:29:33.539 --> 00:29:35.779 the retail level, at the grocery store, at the 00:29:35.779 --> 00:29:37.140 convenience store, et cetera? Aren't you going 00:29:37.140 --> 00:29:39.839 to be paying for this in a different way and 00:29:39.839 --> 00:29:42.319 probably at a much higher cost than you're paying 00:29:42.319 --> 00:29:45.019 now just to recycle those materials? I know you've 00:29:45.019 --> 00:29:46.779 thought about that. I know you've looked into 00:29:46.779 --> 00:29:49.279 that. I know there are arguments both ways. I 00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:50.599 mean, what do you think the answers are there? 00:29:50.839 --> 00:29:54.910 You know, there are a lot of studies A lot of 00:29:54.910 --> 00:29:57.890 data out there, and like you said, they say a 00:29:57.890 --> 00:30:01.589 lot of different things. They lean towards a 00:30:01.589 --> 00:30:05.289 very small or minimal impact, which depending 00:30:05.289 --> 00:30:07.569 on the person, minimal is a different definition, 00:30:07.690 --> 00:30:11.049 right? It's all relative. But I've been trying 00:30:11.049 --> 00:30:13.950 to think of it from the perspective of the cost 00:30:13.950 --> 00:30:17.470 going down. for me to pay for curbside recycling 00:30:17.470 --> 00:30:21.170 service compared to whatever costs are passed 00:30:21.170 --> 00:30:25.670 along to me at the register is a shift or a transfer 00:30:25.670 --> 00:30:28.990 of my money, right? I'm paying less for recycling 00:30:28.990 --> 00:30:30.869 and maybe I'm paying more over here for groceries, 00:30:31.089 --> 00:30:34.180 but I'm also getting better service. I'm getting 00:30:34.180 --> 00:30:36.680 increased confidence that when I put something 00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:39.200 in the recycling bin, it's going to go to where 00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:43.859 it needs to go to be recycled and not as dictated 00:30:43.859 --> 00:30:47.519 by, not as susceptible to design changes or market 00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:49.839 changes, but that I'll be able to consistently 00:30:49.839 --> 00:30:53.819 rely on a list. and find that I'm getting better 00:30:53.819 --> 00:30:57.299 service overall. Well, in some ways, aren't you 00:30:57.299 --> 00:31:00.859 also choosing to pay more by buying those types 00:31:00.859 --> 00:31:03.140 of products? You mentioned some products are 00:31:03.140 --> 00:31:05.400 really easy to recycle, some are less. And I 00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:07.680 mentioned, I think we were talking about soda 00:31:07.680 --> 00:31:10.079 manufacturers, those plastic bottles and those 00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:13.180 aluminum cans, they actually have value. And 00:31:13.180 --> 00:31:16.809 so the fact that... that they're going to participate, 00:31:16.930 --> 00:31:19.309 but there's a kind of a push pull, right? There's 00:31:19.309 --> 00:31:22.410 an input and an output, and it's likely to, you 00:31:22.410 --> 00:31:25.890 know, maybe have a pretty minimal, if any, impact 00:31:25.890 --> 00:31:28.990 at all in that regard versus something that you 00:31:28.990 --> 00:31:31.650 might buy that's really hard to recycle, that 00:31:31.650 --> 00:31:33.289 a product manufacturer is going to have to pay 00:31:33.289 --> 00:31:36.390 a lot more for, you know, to manage that end 00:31:36.390 --> 00:31:41.529 of life kind of disposal process. They're obviously 00:31:41.529 --> 00:31:43.230 going to be motivated, like we said, to try to 00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:46.099 probably change that packaging because it's going 00:31:46.099 --> 00:31:48.559 to be too expensive. And it's going to have an 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:50.160 impact on their price, which will probably have 00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:54.059 an impact on their sales. But if it does, I'm 00:31:54.059 --> 00:31:56.440 still choosing to buy that product, right? And 00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:58.779 so kind of the cost is being shifted to the actual 00:31:58.779 --> 00:32:01.519 people who use and consume those products versus 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:04.519 kind of all of us being responsible for managing 00:32:04.519 --> 00:32:08.750 this waste. Is that... Is that kind of a true 00:32:08.750 --> 00:32:11.650 perspective? Or could that be a perspective here? 00:32:11.829 --> 00:32:13.869 Yeah, I think that's one of the most powerful 00:32:13.869 --> 00:32:17.450 voices we have as consumers is choosing what 00:32:17.450 --> 00:32:20.289 we buy and what we don't buy. And that's an option 00:32:20.289 --> 00:32:23.670 here for a lot of things. You could almost say 00:32:23.670 --> 00:32:26.210 it's an opt -in then. To some extent, yeah. I 00:32:26.210 --> 00:32:27.869 think there are still things that you are going 00:32:27.869 --> 00:32:30.869 to need and you don't have alternative options. 00:32:31.450 --> 00:32:34.710 Nobody makes Thin Mint Oreo cookies in a better 00:32:34.710 --> 00:32:37.569 package than Oreo does, right? And I need Oreo 00:32:37.569 --> 00:32:39.670 Thin Mint cookies. I'm going to keep buying those 00:32:39.670 --> 00:32:42.950 things. That was supposed to be a joke in there. 00:32:43.009 --> 00:32:44.730 I have a feeling that you're going to get lots 00:32:44.730 --> 00:32:46.789 of Thin Mint Oreo cookies in the mail. Yeah, 00:32:46.829 --> 00:32:49.390 let's cut that one. The fans are going to... 00:32:49.390 --> 00:32:51.349 Yeah, we've used a lot of brands in this conversation. 00:32:51.470 --> 00:32:53.990 The fans are going to start... You're going to 00:32:53.990 --> 00:32:55.279 go on... stage and they're just going to throw 00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:56.539 those cookies at you. You know who's not going 00:32:56.539 --> 00:32:58.339 to send them? My mother -in -law, because I said 00:32:58.339 --> 00:33:00.680 that she calls her grandkids burden. Oh, yeah, 00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:04.400 that's probably better. I think we should leave 00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:06.900 that part in. Yeah. I think in a lot of cases, 00:33:07.059 --> 00:33:09.339 Paul, that is true, where people will get to 00:33:09.339 --> 00:33:12.980 choose what they purchased based upon their values 00:33:12.980 --> 00:33:17.480 and what is more recyclable versus less recyclable. 00:33:18.490 --> 00:33:20.490 And there are a lot of products that are exempt 00:33:20.490 --> 00:33:23.309 in this build because people don't have choices 00:33:23.309 --> 00:33:28.710 such as medication or... products that just don't 00:33:28.710 --> 00:33:31.410 come in alternative packaging that you need to 00:33:31.410 --> 00:33:34.609 be healthy or survive. So there's a lot of things 00:33:34.609 --> 00:33:36.049 that are exempt where people wouldn't necessarily 00:33:36.049 --> 00:33:38.829 have that choice. And there are still going to 00:33:38.829 --> 00:33:40.990 be things that, I'm trying to think of something 00:33:40.990 --> 00:33:43.849 off the top of my head that would be, you might 00:33:43.849 --> 00:33:46.230 not have as much of a choice when it comes to 00:33:46.230 --> 00:33:47.809 buying certain things as others. Like there are 00:33:47.809 --> 00:33:50.269 things that you can choose. I can choose not 00:33:50.269 --> 00:33:54.430 to buy as much. bottled water if I want to because 00:33:54.430 --> 00:33:56.650 of this. But there are other products that I'm 00:33:56.650 --> 00:33:58.130 going to need to buy just because I need them 00:33:58.130 --> 00:34:01.609 or they're important for everyday use or survival. 00:34:01.609 --> 00:34:03.390 Yeah, in that case, it's not really an opt -in. 00:34:03.720 --> 00:34:05.559 Right. You're just kind of you're kind of stuck. 00:34:05.660 --> 00:34:08.880 The other kind of price piece of this that a 00:34:08.880 --> 00:34:11.579 lot of the people who were concerned about the 00:34:11.579 --> 00:34:13.219 policy were making the arguments around where 00:34:13.219 --> 00:34:15.760 we have this system in place. And you were talking 00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:17.460 about that before. That's actually pretty efficient. 00:34:17.780 --> 00:34:21.219 And it's in it's efficient from not just a recycling 00:34:21.219 --> 00:34:23.639 and moving goods kind of point of view, but it's 00:34:23.639 --> 00:34:27.409 inexpensive. And we really don't know. what all 00:34:27.409 --> 00:34:31.050 of this new complication and administration and, 00:34:31.090 --> 00:34:34.690 frankly, bureaucracy is going to do to not just 00:34:34.690 --> 00:34:39.829 the price of participating. Well, it will do 00:34:39.829 --> 00:34:41.469 to the price of participating, but what will 00:34:41.469 --> 00:34:43.610 it do eventually to the price of the product? 00:34:43.690 --> 00:34:47.030 Because it's not just the product that... the 00:34:47.030 --> 00:34:48.610 cost to recycle that product that's going to 00:34:48.610 --> 00:34:50.510 be part of it. It's going to be all that administration 00:34:50.510 --> 00:34:53.869 and bureaucracy on top of it. And it may actually 00:34:53.869 --> 00:34:57.349 be a more costly system. The idea, of course, 00:34:57.389 --> 00:35:00.550 is that you are trying to incentivize. better 00:35:00.550 --> 00:35:02.590 packaging, more recyclable products, and get 00:35:02.590 --> 00:35:05.110 more recyclable products out at the end. But 00:35:05.110 --> 00:35:09.090 will the benefits outweigh the cost to the consumer? 00:35:09.309 --> 00:35:11.570 Big unknown. Nobody really knows. And I think 00:35:11.570 --> 00:35:13.449 that's one of the concerns that a lot of people 00:35:13.449 --> 00:35:16.329 have is it is a big unknown as to what this will 00:35:16.329 --> 00:35:18.570 look like and what it'll take to get there. Now, 00:35:18.650 --> 00:35:21.750 these programs are in place in other places. 00:35:22.190 --> 00:35:25.360 BC, of course, is the nearest. Oregon has passed 00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:28.139 one but not implemented. California passed one 00:35:28.139 --> 00:35:31.699 and just suspended implementation because of 00:35:31.699 --> 00:35:35.900 rising costs. Is that right? That not entirely. 00:35:36.619 --> 00:35:40.099 They suspended the process, their needs assessment 00:35:40.099 --> 00:35:43.059 process due to delays. It's not solely related 00:35:43.059 --> 00:35:45.079 to cost. Okay. Yeah, it was probably. Okay. I 00:35:45.079 --> 00:35:46.719 can look into exactly why, but it wasn't solely 00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:48.539 cost. It was more like it was taking too long 00:35:48.539 --> 00:35:50.480 and everybody was being too difficult and they 00:35:50.480 --> 00:35:52.139 weren't getting what they needed. So there's 00:35:52.139 --> 00:35:53.539 lessons learned there, but I don't know what 00:35:53.539 --> 00:35:55.179 they are. But they're not fully implemented either 00:35:55.179 --> 00:35:57.679 though, right? There are no states in the US 00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:01.280 that have. this level of EPR in place. There's 00:36:01.280 --> 00:36:03.300 quite a few places that have passed legislation. 00:36:03.659 --> 00:36:06.059 Oregon, as you mentioned, California, like you 00:36:06.059 --> 00:36:11.000 mentioned, Maryland, Colorado. Washington. Washington. 00:36:11.360 --> 00:36:14.500 I guess, yeah, we're on that list now. And then 00:36:14.500 --> 00:36:17.739 Minnesota, like I mentioned, has a... program 00:36:17.739 --> 00:36:19.780 that's very similar to the one that we just passed 00:36:19.780 --> 00:36:22.360 here. But they're all in the development phase 00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:24.039 and still trying to figure out what it's going 00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:27.019 to take to get there. And in various points in 00:36:27.019 --> 00:36:29.260 that, but nobody has it implemented or in place 00:36:29.260 --> 00:36:31.519 yet in the US. So let's talk about the development 00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:34.579 phase. When I was reading through some of the 00:36:34.579 --> 00:36:37.659 material on this, it looks like 2029 is kind 00:36:37.659 --> 00:36:39.260 of what they're targeting. So we're actually 00:36:39.260 --> 00:36:42.610 quite a ways out while the bill. past this session, 00:36:42.769 --> 00:36:45.070 implementations can start, but they've given 00:36:45.070 --> 00:36:47.710 themselves four or five years before they expect 00:36:47.710 --> 00:36:49.809 to actually roll this thing out. Is that right? 00:36:49.949 --> 00:36:51.969 Yes. Yeah. They've got some, there's quite a 00:36:51.969 --> 00:36:55.030 few steps between now and when it hits the ground 00:36:55.030 --> 00:36:58.090 or when it starts up. Part of that is a needs 00:36:58.090 --> 00:37:00.090 assessment, which is basically taking a look 00:37:00.090 --> 00:37:02.389 at a county by county level of what is currently 00:37:02.389 --> 00:37:05.719 happening with recycling and what's... needed 00:37:05.719 --> 00:37:09.659 to um to improve whether it's building out new 00:37:09.659 --> 00:37:12.699 infrastructure increasing service levels new 00:37:12.699 --> 00:37:14.880 or higher levels of outreach and education whatever 00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:18.139 that is and all of that information will go into 00:37:18.139 --> 00:37:21.300 this report that will tell um that will tell 00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:24.260 us what it will cost what changes will need to 00:37:24.260 --> 00:37:26.920 be made and what it will look like um to have 00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:28.960 this system in place but they're doing a county 00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:31.440 by county assessment of what is needed really 00:37:31.440 --> 00:37:35.039 so travels travis you work with our Solid Waste 00:37:35.039 --> 00:37:37.559 Affiliate, which is the managers that operate 00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:40.480 and lead the solid waste programs across Washington. 00:37:40.639 --> 00:37:42.420 Counties have the primary responsibility for 00:37:42.420 --> 00:37:44.400 managing solid waste, which includes recycling 00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:46.019 through our comprehensive solid waste management 00:37:46.019 --> 00:37:51.320 plans that we have to approve or have in place 00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:53.340 and then update on a regular basis. You've been 00:37:53.340 --> 00:37:56.059 in solid waste yourself. You guys have been talking 00:37:56.059 --> 00:37:59.000 about this program for years. Do you think we're 00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:00.960 ready? I don't know that we'd ever be ready, 00:38:01.079 --> 00:38:05.000 I guess. Are we ready enough to make a big change 00:38:05.000 --> 00:38:07.880 like this within four years, do you think? I 00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:09.039 think the only way we're going to figure out 00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:11.239 is by trying. I say that I don't know that we're 00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:13.400 ever prepared because of all the unknowns of 00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:14.880 what it's going to take and what it's going to 00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:17.460 look like. Yeah, it feels like the work here 00:38:17.460 --> 00:38:21.219 is really cut out for the process when it gets 00:38:21.219 --> 00:38:23.360 started moving forward. And there's lots of players, 00:38:23.500 --> 00:38:26.699 right? There's ecology, there's these... you 00:38:26.699 --> 00:38:30.559 know, pros that have to form. There's some oversight 00:38:30.559 --> 00:38:34.659 groups that are going to evaluate these plans 00:38:34.659 --> 00:38:37.380 from the producer responsibility organizations 00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:39.960 or the pros. I mean, there's, and, and in between, 00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:42.539 and those are just the big pieces. There's just 00:38:42.539 --> 00:38:44.940 a ton of detail to work out here. How does the 00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:47.260 current system interact or not interact? Well, 00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:49.099 and how do we get to, you know, a plan is one 00:38:49.099 --> 00:38:51.539 thing. How do our systems interact and not interact, 00:38:51.760 --> 00:38:54.400 right? Yeah. And then, and just the whole process 00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:57.619 of, of, building infrastructure and building 00:38:57.619 --> 00:38:59.699 the programs. I mean, there's one thing to study 00:38:59.699 --> 00:39:01.400 and make a plan, and then there's a whole other 00:39:01.400 --> 00:39:04.960 thing to implement it. And I don't know how much 00:39:04.960 --> 00:39:06.840 infrastructure is going to be needed, but I know 00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:09.179 that takes a lot of time and it takes a lot of 00:39:09.179 --> 00:39:12.099 cost. And I know that's something that every 00:39:12.099 --> 00:39:15.639 service in Washington is struggling with around. 00:39:15.659 --> 00:39:17.920 Well, we've been behind in building infrastructure 00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:22.119 for solid waste with just the. loads that we 00:39:22.119 --> 00:39:23.920 have now, right? Just the demand we have now 00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:25.619 and maybe looking ahead into the future, but 00:39:25.619 --> 00:39:29.380 certainly not considering. large influxes, large 00:39:29.380 --> 00:39:32.800 increases in recyclable commodities or the types 00:39:32.800 --> 00:39:36.519 of recyclables, that really probably will require 00:39:36.519 --> 00:39:39.199 a major investment in new infrastructure just 00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:41.199 to be able to handle that product. The other 00:39:41.199 --> 00:39:43.860 piece that I just want to touch on really briefly, 00:39:43.980 --> 00:39:47.019 the other thing that we've been seeing in recent 00:39:47.019 --> 00:39:50.019 years in Washington are new requirements for 00:39:50.019 --> 00:39:53.500 post -consumer content in certain materials. 00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:56.179 One of the challenges associated with that from 00:39:56.179 --> 00:39:58.519 some of the product manufacturers has been getting 00:39:58.519 --> 00:40:00.679 access to that material. Recycling rates aren't 00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:02.679 high enough. Contamination rates are too high. 00:40:03.579 --> 00:40:06.699 We can't get clean product streams, et cetera. 00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:10.699 And I'm thinking of things like aluminum, steel. 00:40:12.750 --> 00:40:16.269 plastic, you know, recycled paper, recycled cardboard, 00:40:16.389 --> 00:40:18.769 all these sorts of things. And I know it looks 00:40:18.769 --> 00:40:20.349 like we collect a lot of that stuff and we do, 00:40:20.550 --> 00:40:23.090 but we're still collecting only about half of 00:40:23.090 --> 00:40:25.670 what actually comes in to the consumer, you know, 00:40:25.690 --> 00:40:27.650 that sold to consumers at retail actually get 00:40:27.650 --> 00:40:30.789 back out through the recycled market. Is this 00:40:30.789 --> 00:40:34.519 type of policy going to help with those? new 00:40:34.519 --> 00:40:37.159 requirements and improve those commodity streams? 00:40:37.400 --> 00:40:40.440 I think that's the intent. And that is what this 00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:44.860 bill is supposed to do is create more material 00:40:44.860 --> 00:40:47.860 to be able to meet those requirements. Kind of 00:40:47.860 --> 00:40:49.860 back to that circular economy thing that we talked 00:40:49.860 --> 00:40:52.320 about, right? Yeah. I think this has, you know, 00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:55.900 it has the potential to address some of the materials 00:40:55.900 --> 00:40:58.139 that end up maybe even as litter. You know, I 00:40:58.139 --> 00:41:00.619 don't know the full extent of how this will play 00:41:00.619 --> 00:41:03.550 out, but if... producers are responsible for 00:41:03.550 --> 00:41:05.829 capturing a certain percentage of the products 00:41:05.829 --> 00:41:07.449 that they sell into the state. A lot of that 00:41:07.449 --> 00:41:09.230 ends up on the side of the road. So I'm hopeful 00:41:09.230 --> 00:41:11.670 that, you know, that gets better. But they're 00:41:11.670 --> 00:41:13.289 going to need to find a way to get as much of 00:41:13.289 --> 00:41:16.809 that material as possible. So that they can put 00:41:16.809 --> 00:41:18.570 that back into their products. But that is the 00:41:18.570 --> 00:41:20.349 intent of this is to create a stronger connection, 00:41:20.429 --> 00:41:22.789 both to as things are manufactured, are they 00:41:22.789 --> 00:41:25.210 done so in a way that they can be recycled? And 00:41:25.210 --> 00:41:27.010 are they processed in a way that they can be 00:41:27.010 --> 00:41:28.670 turned back into the thing that they need to 00:41:28.670 --> 00:41:32.110 be turned into? And with the, well, yeah, I'll 00:41:32.110 --> 00:41:33.739 just leave it at that. I think that's what it 00:41:33.739 --> 00:41:36.300 is. Okay. Well, Travis, it's been good chatting 00:41:36.300 --> 00:41:39.900 with you about this. I think that this is a huge 00:41:39.900 --> 00:41:43.840 policy. I was surprised that it passed this session. 00:41:43.880 --> 00:41:46.320 I didn't think it was going to. Sometimes, you 00:41:46.320 --> 00:41:50.039 know, the legislature, you know, they can pull 00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:51.800 a surprise every now and again. It didn't say. 00:41:51.900 --> 00:41:55.480 My understanding is that nobody knew until. 2 00:41:55.480 --> 00:41:57.219 o 'clock in the morning. That's probably not 00:41:57.219 --> 00:41:58.980 true, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of people 00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:01.039 weren't sure until 2 o 'clock this morning whether 00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:03.219 that was going to happen or not. Well, a pretty 00:42:03.219 --> 00:42:06.400 fundamental bill, Senate Bill 5284, implementing 00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:09.500 a new EPR program in Washington State moving 00:42:09.500 --> 00:42:11.599 forward for product packaging and paper products, 00:42:11.760 --> 00:42:15.159 voted off the House floor at right around 2 a 00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:18.699 .m. this morning. What is it, April 15th? So 00:42:18.699 --> 00:42:20.260 from here on out, it sounds like we've got a 00:42:20.260 --> 00:42:22.119 ton of work to do to figure this thing. It's 00:42:22.119 --> 00:42:24.820 tax day too, right? Now it's a tax day and EPR 00:42:24.820 --> 00:42:28.340 day in Washington. Wow. EPR and tax day. This 00:42:28.340 --> 00:42:30.400 is a big deal. I'm not sure I'd want to be affiliated 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:33.739 with tax day if I was the EPR, but it is what 00:42:33.739 --> 00:42:36.880 it is at this point. Well, Travis, thanks for 00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:39.400 chatting with us about it. This is actually, 00:42:39.420 --> 00:42:42.800 I think, our first breaking news podcast. So 00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:46.780 how do you feel now that it's over? I mean, it 00:42:46.780 --> 00:42:48.949 is not over. Not even close, right? I mean, this 00:42:48.949 --> 00:42:52.929 is when the real work starts. It's been, like 00:42:52.929 --> 00:42:55.829 you said, three years of most of my attention 00:42:55.829 --> 00:42:58.889 from a WASAC perspective, as far as working on 00:42:58.889 --> 00:43:01.769 things during session, many years before that. 00:43:02.130 --> 00:43:05.849 But now is when the planning, the data collection, 00:43:06.010 --> 00:43:08.269 the needs assessment, this is when it all actually 00:43:08.269 --> 00:43:10.150 happens. And this is when the uncertainty starts 00:43:10.150 --> 00:43:12.889 to roll out. And we just have to keep moving 00:43:12.889 --> 00:43:15.199 towards that. I'm sure there's a lot more to 00:43:15.199 --> 00:43:17.480 come. I'm sure there is. But it won't be the 00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:19.239 last time we talk about this, I'm sure. Probably 00:43:19.239 --> 00:43:23.219 not. Probably not. Well, Travis, thanks for the 00:43:23.219 --> 00:43:26.119 update. Really appreciate it. I'm glad that you're 00:43:26.119 --> 00:43:28.480 on the case, so to speak. I'm on it. All over 00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:31.000 it. All over it. Sounds good. Well, take care 00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:34.239 until next time. Thanks. Thanks for tuning in 00:43:34.239 --> 00:43:36.559 to County Connection. Stay in the loop by subscribing 00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:39.099 to us through your preferred podcasting app and 00:43:39.099 --> 00:43:41.739 following us on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. 00:43:41.960 --> 00:43:44.119 And don't forget to join the hub, your go to 00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:46.119 source for the latest news and updates from the 00:43:46.119 --> 00:43:48.539 Washington State Association of Counties. Until 00:43:48.539 --> 00:43:50.780 next time, stay connected and stay informed.