WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.319 The first stage in being a Steelers fan is to 00:00:02.319 --> 00:00:05.139 admit it. I do admit it. Okay, good. And that 00:00:05.139 --> 00:00:07.820 was hard because when I moved here, the 2005 00:00:07.820 --> 00:00:11.839 Super Bowl was still fresh from people. I moved 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:14.679 here in 07. Yeah, the one where the Steelers 00:00:14.679 --> 00:00:16.719 won fair and square in Detroit. Absolutely fair 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:22.010 and square, yes. Welcome to County Connection, 00:00:22.030 --> 00:00:24.129 the official podcast of the Washington State 00:00:24.129 --> 00:00:26.530 Association of Counties, where we dive into the 00:00:26.530 --> 00:00:28.530 legislative issues shaping the future of our 00:00:28.530 --> 00:00:31.390 communities. From budgets to public safety, infrastructure 00:00:31.390 --> 00:00:34.329 to elections, we'll break down what's happening 00:00:34.329 --> 00:00:37.109 in Olympia and how it impacts counties from across 00:00:37.109 --> 00:00:40.189 the Evergreen State. Stay informed, stay engaged, 00:00:40.350 --> 00:00:43.210 and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 00:00:43.210 --> 00:00:48.039 39 counties. Welcome back everybody to the County 00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:49.979 Connection Podcast. I'm Paul Jewell, the Government 00:00:49.979 --> 00:00:52.280 Relations Director for the Washington State Association 00:00:52.280 --> 00:00:56.140 of Counties and your host on this podcast and 00:00:56.140 --> 00:01:00.240 every podcast. It is a kind of a gray Saturday. 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:02.500 It's a little nasty outside. So we decided to 00:01:02.500 --> 00:01:05.900 come in and record another podcast for you. And 00:01:05.900 --> 00:01:08.680 on the way back inside, I ran into a special 00:01:08.680 --> 00:01:11.019 guest and I dragged him in here. Commissioner 00:01:11.019 --> 00:01:12.739 Ty Mentor from Thurston County. How are you? 00:01:12.950 --> 00:01:15.109 commissioner i'm good thanks paul welcome this 00:01:15.109 --> 00:01:17.090 is your uh is this your first part your first 00:01:17.090 --> 00:01:19.049 podcast ever it's your first time on this podcast 00:01:19.049 --> 00:01:20.969 it's my first time on this podcast i've been 00:01:20.969 --> 00:01:23.349 on other podcasts you have so you're a podcast 00:01:23.349 --> 00:01:26.329 veteran and i actually did in college i was a 00:01:26.329 --> 00:01:29.090 radio dj oh no kidding and i did that uh and 00:01:29.090 --> 00:01:31.030 then i was a public defender up in the arctic 00:01:31.030 --> 00:01:34.329 circle where i did radio up there on kotz 50 00:01:34.329 --> 00:01:37.890 000 watts because they for emergency they give 00:01:37.890 --> 00:01:40.269 them a humongous like they got to cover the entire 00:01:40.269 --> 00:01:44.069 arctic of alaska well shout out to KOTZ and the 00:01:44.069 --> 00:01:48.989 Arctic. This podcast sponsored by KOTZ. So I 00:01:48.989 --> 00:01:51.829 like doing, I love, it's kind of a joke like 00:01:51.829 --> 00:01:54.310 in my campaigns and in my work as a commissioner, 00:01:54.569 --> 00:01:57.230 I hate doing video stuff, but I love doing audio 00:01:57.230 --> 00:01:58.769 stuff. So you're a radio guy. It just feels so 00:01:58.769 --> 00:02:00.650 much more comfortable to me, yeah. Yeah, I had 00:02:00.650 --> 00:02:02.829 no idea. When I asked you to do this podcast, 00:02:02.969 --> 00:02:04.569 I didn't know that you were such a veteran. You 00:02:04.569 --> 00:02:05.870 should be sitting on this side of the table. 00:02:05.890 --> 00:02:07.109 Well, when I heard you were doing it, that's 00:02:07.109 --> 00:02:10.250 why I threw, yeah, I'd love to come and pitch 00:02:10.250 --> 00:02:12.789 in. Well, you mentioned, that. So you mentioned 00:02:12.789 --> 00:02:15.550 you did some, was it a prosecutor or public defense? 00:02:15.710 --> 00:02:18.069 Public defense. Up north. Okay. So you have a 00:02:18.069 --> 00:02:20.469 legal background too. I do. Yeah. I was a lawyer 00:02:20.469 --> 00:02:23.650 for 21 years before I ran for office. I started 00:02:23.650 --> 00:02:27.569 in corporate downtown Chicago in the top floor 00:02:27.569 --> 00:02:29.710 of the mercantile exchange building, 10 South 00:02:29.710 --> 00:02:32.310 Wacker. And then doing commercial litigation, 00:02:32.729 --> 00:02:35.250 moved to Palo Alto where I did intellectual property 00:02:35.250 --> 00:02:38.289 litigation for a tech. like law firm. That had 00:02:38.289 --> 00:02:40.849 to be a huge change from Chicago to Palo Alto. 00:02:41.129 --> 00:02:43.270 It was. I mean, I went to Berkeley for grad school. 00:02:43.370 --> 00:02:45.409 So it was kind of like coming home. The Chicago 00:02:45.409 --> 00:02:47.250 is kind of the weird part because I wasn't a 00:02:47.250 --> 00:02:49.469 Midwesterner. So you were, are you from California 00:02:49.469 --> 00:02:51.330 then? I'm from Southern California. Oh, okay. 00:02:51.389 --> 00:02:53.650 So you're an import. To the Pacific Northwest. 00:02:53.750 --> 00:02:56.990 Oh, that's a secret that I just unveiled right 00:02:56.990 --> 00:02:59.310 here. I have moved around. I had met Luis, Alaska. 00:02:59.710 --> 00:03:02.650 Yeah. So I've been around, but I had the legal 00:03:02.650 --> 00:03:04.889 background. And then after a couple of years 00:03:04.889 --> 00:03:07.919 in Palo Alto, I decided. You know, I'm not getting 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:10.539 in the courtroom. I'm not doing the kind of public 00:03:10.539 --> 00:03:12.740 interest work that I really makes my heart feel 00:03:12.740 --> 00:03:16.310 good. And I. And I got fascinated by Alaska at 00:03:16.310 --> 00:03:17.610 the same time. So I'm like, I think I'm going 00:03:17.610 --> 00:03:19.110 to combine all three of these things. I'm going 00:03:19.110 --> 00:03:20.830 to go up and be a public defender. I'm going 00:03:20.830 --> 00:03:22.490 to do courtroom. I'm going to help people at 00:03:22.490 --> 00:03:24.189 least for a few years and see how that feels. 00:03:24.430 --> 00:03:27.050 And I'm going to explore the Arctic and Alaska 00:03:27.050 --> 00:03:29.789 and end up there seven years. So you're a California 00:03:29.789 --> 00:03:33.289 kid, went to school down there at Berkeley, ended 00:03:33.289 --> 00:03:35.810 up in Chicago. I actually went to college in 00:03:35.810 --> 00:03:39.250 the Northeast. Oh, wow. Okay. Like New Hampshire 00:03:39.250 --> 00:03:42.729 or? I was at Harvard and Cambridge. Okay. Cambridge. 00:03:42.909 --> 00:03:46.500 Great. Boston? Boston, yeah. All right. Did you 00:03:46.500 --> 00:03:48.419 catch any Red Sox games when you were there? 00:03:48.500 --> 00:03:50.939 Many Red Sox games. I'm a big baseball fan. Fenway 00:03:50.939 --> 00:03:52.879 Park, man. It's my favorite park. Unbelievable. 00:03:54.139 --> 00:03:57.659 So I'm just trying to keep up because this is 00:03:57.659 --> 00:03:59.620 a little crazy. So you went all the way east, 00:03:59.659 --> 00:04:02.580 hanging out in Cambridge. Then you ended up in 00:04:02.580 --> 00:04:04.840 Chicago. Then you ended up back in Palo Alto. 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:07.689 And then you just said. what the heck we're going 00:04:07.689 --> 00:04:10.090 to Alaska. Yeah. I was really comfortable in 00:04:10.090 --> 00:04:12.629 a law firm in the Bay area. And I was in my twenties, 00:04:12.830 --> 00:04:14.909 late twenties. And I just thought, is this it? 00:04:15.009 --> 00:04:16.930 I'm going to be just working at this law firm 00:04:16.930 --> 00:04:19.170 for 50 years and retire. It's like, I was, I 00:04:19.170 --> 00:04:21.790 was not married. I was unattached, no kids. Like 00:04:21.790 --> 00:04:23.230 I'm going to go to Alaska. I read a book called 00:04:23.230 --> 00:04:25.470 Arctic dreams by a guy named Barry Lopez, who 00:04:25.470 --> 00:04:28.379 wrote from Eugene, Oregon. Really changed my 00:04:28.379 --> 00:04:30.319 life because it got me really interested in environmental 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:33.420 stuff and really interested in Alaska and like 00:04:33.420 --> 00:04:36.040 a truly, you know, a landscape like that. And 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:38.379 it's a state, so you can keep my legal career 00:04:38.379 --> 00:04:40.779 moving. And I was interested, like say, getting 00:04:40.779 --> 00:04:42.319 in the courtroom more. So I'm like, what if I 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:44.319 went to the public defender in Alaska for a few 00:04:44.319 --> 00:04:46.660 years? That seemed to check several boxes for 00:04:46.660 --> 00:04:48.740 me. So I made all the, you know, it took a lot 00:04:48.740 --> 00:04:50.540 of work to get all that lined up. Oh, sure. Take 00:04:50.540 --> 00:04:53.160 the bar and meet some people up there. And they 00:04:53.160 --> 00:04:55.860 sent me to Kotzebue, Alaska. Where is that? That's 00:04:55.860 --> 00:04:58.600 in the Arctic Circle. north of Nome in the Northwest. 00:04:58.980 --> 00:05:02.439 Wow. Nome's not far enough north for me, Paul. 00:05:02.779 --> 00:05:05.439 I had to go above, 26 miles above the Arctic 00:05:05.439 --> 00:05:10.029 Circle. When you said Alaska, you meant full 00:05:10.029 --> 00:05:13.209 on Alaska. You're not talking Southwestern Alaska. 00:05:13.209 --> 00:05:15.829 I owned a snow machine. Oh, wow. Good for you. 00:05:15.970 --> 00:05:18.050 And then three years there. And then I went to 00:05:18.050 --> 00:05:19.850 Fairbanks because I didn't want to leave. It 00:05:19.850 --> 00:05:21.730 felt weird to like go to Kotzebue, which is a 00:05:21.730 --> 00:05:24.250 native village, and then go back to the Bay Area. 00:05:24.449 --> 00:05:27.449 So I'm like, I want to see Alaska, like white 00:05:27.449 --> 00:05:29.589 people's Alaska, you know, the road system and 00:05:29.589 --> 00:05:31.769 kind of what that's like. So I went to Fairbanks 00:05:31.769 --> 00:05:34.269 and my wife and I really loved it. And we were 00:05:34.269 --> 00:05:36.879 really close to staying. You give up a lot of 00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:39.399 things when you go there. Baseball, taking my 00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:41.180 kids to see, you know, not being able to, my 00:05:41.180 --> 00:05:44.079 son was born in Fairbanks and the idea of never 00:05:44.079 --> 00:05:45.699 being able to take him to see a ball game. What 00:05:45.699 --> 00:05:47.620 about hockey? Did you get into hockey? I didn't 00:05:47.620 --> 00:05:50.120 get into hockey really. But I'm sure that's. 00:05:50.250 --> 00:05:52.730 I'm sure that's a big time sport. University 00:05:52.730 --> 00:05:54.810 of Alaska Fairbanks had a hockey team. Yeah. 00:05:54.870 --> 00:05:57.670 I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Is there spring long 00:05:57.670 --> 00:05:59.610 enough to have a baseball season? I don't know. 00:05:59.709 --> 00:06:02.250 Well, you know, it's cool. They have the, so 00:06:02.250 --> 00:06:04.509 there's a college all -star league up there in 00:06:04.509 --> 00:06:06.389 the summer during the long night. So once the 00:06:06.389 --> 00:06:08.149 college season ends. Oh, sure. Cause they can 00:06:08.149 --> 00:06:09.170 play all night long. They can play all night 00:06:09.170 --> 00:06:11.089 long. And there's actually a midnight game. So 00:06:11.089 --> 00:06:12.990 you get like Mark McGuire, all these famous, 00:06:13.029 --> 00:06:16.149 like. guys who ended up in mlb it's just game 00:06:16.149 --> 00:06:18.209 after game after game in the alaska league oh 00:06:18.209 --> 00:06:20.750 wow that's great to get extra reps during um 00:06:20.750 --> 00:06:23.089 like when they when they were college if they 00:06:23.089 --> 00:06:25.170 didn't go pro yeah and you know i know some of 00:06:25.170 --> 00:06:26.949 the pros some of the young pros that are in the 00:06:26.949 --> 00:06:28.949 minor leagues they'll go down to like south america 00:06:28.949 --> 00:06:31.230 and mexico and play yeah during the off season 00:06:31.230 --> 00:06:34.970 um but i had no idea there was an alaska league 00:06:34.970 --> 00:06:36.870 i think it's still college students could do 00:06:36.870 --> 00:06:38.769 and there's some of the northeast too right during 00:06:38.769 --> 00:06:40.870 the summer isn't there i think so yeah some of 00:06:40.870 --> 00:06:42.790 those summer kind of semi -pro development leagues 00:06:43.930 --> 00:06:47.110 Well, we should have made this about baseball 00:06:47.110 --> 00:06:48.610 because we probably could have talked baseball 00:06:48.610 --> 00:06:52.990 all day. So you're in Alaska. You grew up in 00:06:52.990 --> 00:06:56.069 Kotzebue, you said? Kotzebue. Kotzebue? Kotzebue. 00:06:56.189 --> 00:06:58.009 Okay. And then down in Fairbanks. And then how 00:06:58.009 --> 00:07:00.970 did you end up here? So then it was my wife and 00:07:00.970 --> 00:07:04.189 I were thinking, do we stay in Alaska? Because 00:07:04.189 --> 00:07:06.209 I had some career opportunities opening up that 00:07:06.209 --> 00:07:07.790 probably would have locked me down for good. 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:11.639 we decided, nope, I'm not going to, I'm a musician 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:13.879 as well. Like I wanted to play music and see 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:16.000 music. And I wanted to take my son to ball games 00:07:16.000 --> 00:07:17.560 and be closer to my family. So we're like, we're 00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:19.420 going to make one more move, only one. Cause 00:07:19.420 --> 00:07:21.540 I knew I really wanted to be involved in local 00:07:21.540 --> 00:07:23.879 government and community and stuff. And you got 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:25.959 to be really rooted in a community to, to do 00:07:25.959 --> 00:07:28.180 that kind of work. So I knew that it was going 00:07:28.180 --> 00:07:30.139 to be one more move. And so we were kind of looked 00:07:30.139 --> 00:07:32.939 around and I picked Olympia based on kind of 00:07:32.939 --> 00:07:34.819 a, I knew I was a West coast guy. I'd lived in 00:07:34.819 --> 00:07:36.920 the Midwest. I'd lived in the Northeast. I knew 00:07:36.920 --> 00:07:39.339 I wanted to be on the West coast. fit me culturally 00:07:39.339 --> 00:07:43.639 and, you know, my background. And so we looked 00:07:43.639 --> 00:07:45.339 at different communities. We loved Fairbanks. 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:47.279 So we were looking for that kind of medium -sized 00:07:47.279 --> 00:07:49.680 community, not too small, not too big, where, 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:51.920 you know, you can really make a name for yourself 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:53.300 through the work that you do. Still know your 00:07:53.300 --> 00:07:55.300 neighbors. Yeah. That sort of stuff. And so we 00:07:55.300 --> 00:07:58.120 looked at communities like Eugene, Ben, Bellingham, 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:01.379 but Olympia just led. And I'll tell you the real 00:08:01.379 --> 00:08:04.819 reason it's Olympia is because I loved Berkeley. 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:07.459 And when I got to Olympia, something about it. 00:08:07.660 --> 00:08:09.660 It does have a little bit of that feel. And I 00:08:09.660 --> 00:08:12.279 immediately connected with it. Sure. And I felt 00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:14.000 like this is a place I could definitely settle 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:16.319 in and get to know and want to make home. And 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:17.920 we've been here since 07. And did you practice 00:08:17.920 --> 00:08:19.800 law while you were here for a while? I did for 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:23.000 like 12 years in a small law firm. And now you're 00:08:23.000 --> 00:08:24.360 a county commissioner. I'm a county commissioner. 00:08:24.540 --> 00:08:27.000 And when did you first get elected? 2018. So 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:29.600 I'm in my seventh year. Wow. Wow. Seven years. 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:32.820 Now you are the senior member now. I am. I went 00:08:32.820 --> 00:08:35.580 from the county. Like we were joking that like 00:08:35.580 --> 00:08:37.340 I might've been the youngest county commissioner 00:08:37.340 --> 00:08:38.960 ever elected in Thurston County. I mean, no one 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:41.759 could remember anyone younger. I was 47 when 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:44.360 I got elected. Oh wow. Traditionally been a lot 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:46.860 of older retired folks from state government 00:08:46.860 --> 00:08:49.200 and different places. And now we've gone from 00:08:49.200 --> 00:08:51.200 three to five commissioners and I'm the oldest 00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:53.440 and most senior member. Well, you have a, you 00:08:53.440 --> 00:08:54.980 have a pretty young group over there now. I do. 00:08:55.100 --> 00:08:56.679 It's something that Commissioner Fournier was 00:08:56.679 --> 00:08:58.639 telling me that he heard that we. have the youngest 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:00.940 average age county commission in the state? You 00:09:00.940 --> 00:09:04.279 might. Kittitas County has a pretty young group, 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:06.100 but they're not as young as they used to be because 00:09:06.100 --> 00:09:08.279 they're all now in their second or third term. 00:09:08.580 --> 00:09:10.120 Actually, I think they're in their second terms. 00:09:10.960 --> 00:09:13.960 But two out of three of them were still in their 00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:17.179 30s for a while. And I'm not sure. Shout out 00:09:17.179 --> 00:09:18.600 to the Kittitas County commissioners. I'm not 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:21.539 trying to make you guys older than you are. But 00:09:21.539 --> 00:09:24.740 they were pretty young as well for a while there. 00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:28.580 We've had some members of WASAC that were still 00:09:28.580 --> 00:09:31.559 in their 20s, which is unusual. You're right. 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:34.259 It's usually a more mature person who kind of 00:09:34.259 --> 00:09:36.980 gets elected to that post of being the administrative 00:09:36.980 --> 00:09:39.600 head or at least the legislative head of a county. 00:09:39.639 --> 00:09:42.179 And it makes sense, right, why voters tend to 00:09:42.179 --> 00:09:43.940 gravitate to people with more wisdom when they 00:09:43.940 --> 00:09:47.399 want someone to lead their community. Well, it's 00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:49.659 great to have you. And this is background I didn't 00:09:49.659 --> 00:09:51.340 even know about you. So I'm just getting to know 00:09:51.340 --> 00:09:54.639 you a little bit now. You and I have bonded a 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:56.720 little bit over our shared love for a team that 00:09:56.720 --> 00:09:58.679 will not be mentioned on this podcast because 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:01.940 it will not make us popular with other folks. 00:10:02.700 --> 00:10:06.220 But I know we're both also Seattle sports fans, 00:10:06.460 --> 00:10:09.620 which is great. And you guys, when we were talking 00:10:09.620 --> 00:10:12.059 earlier, you didn't do an NCAA bracket. So we 00:10:12.059 --> 00:10:15.620 can't talk about that. So far this year, I've 00:10:15.620 --> 00:10:18.539 had everything focused exclusively on the legislative 00:10:18.539 --> 00:10:22.860 session. And I know you want to talk about some 00:10:22.860 --> 00:10:27.110 innovative criminal justice programs that. Thurston 00:10:27.110 --> 00:10:29.210 County has been making some investments in, which 00:10:29.210 --> 00:10:31.830 actually is perfect. It relates really well to 00:10:31.830 --> 00:10:33.850 what's going on legislatively right now. One 00:10:33.850 --> 00:10:36.169 of the priorities here in Olympia, I'm sure you've 00:10:36.169 --> 00:10:38.730 heard, has been law and justice and public safety. 00:10:39.570 --> 00:10:43.830 And kind of an emphasis on how do we get more 00:10:43.830 --> 00:10:45.970 dollars into public safety? How do we make investments 00:10:45.970 --> 00:10:48.190 there so that people feel safer in their communities 00:10:48.190 --> 00:10:50.269 than they are now? I think that's really kind 00:10:50.269 --> 00:10:53.029 of the message that legislators are getting is 00:10:53.029 --> 00:10:56.309 they... a lot of their constituents are telling 00:10:56.309 --> 00:10:58.070 them they're just not feeling as safe in their 00:10:58.070 --> 00:11:00.149 communities as they'd like to. Are you getting 00:11:00.149 --> 00:11:02.090 some of those messages here in Thurston County? 00:11:02.330 --> 00:11:04.610 Yeah. I mean, we've been working, you know, I'm 00:11:04.610 --> 00:11:06.210 really proud how we've worked on a variety of 00:11:06.210 --> 00:11:08.429 fronts. I mean, I was going to talk about some 00:11:08.429 --> 00:11:10.850 of the kind of innovative programs about kind 00:11:10.850 --> 00:11:13.669 of reducing reliance on incarceration as the 00:11:13.669 --> 00:11:16.789 primary tool. But at the same time, we passed 00:11:16.789 --> 00:11:19.669 a public safety sales tax just last year. Oh, 00:11:19.690 --> 00:11:22.720 wow. Is that the three -tenths? We did two tents. 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:25.440 You can go up to three tents. Okay, but you guys 00:11:25.440 --> 00:11:28.159 did two. We did two tents, and it was to try 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:31.139 to bring our sheriff's office staffing levels 00:11:31.139 --> 00:11:35.070 up to... at least middle of the pack in Washington, 00:11:35.190 --> 00:11:37.169 we were down toward the bottom. Now, when you're 00:11:37.169 --> 00:11:40.029 talking staff levels, are you talking almost 00:11:40.029 --> 00:11:42.090 exclusively law enforcement officers or are you 00:11:42.090 --> 00:11:44.029 talking administration and support staff as well? 00:11:44.210 --> 00:11:47.490 We are focused on the deputies on the road. Okay. 00:11:47.629 --> 00:11:48.950 I mean, we've got five - Boots on the ground. 00:11:49.090 --> 00:11:51.330 Yeah, boots on the ground. Five areas. We want 00:11:51.330 --> 00:11:54.450 any given time, two officers in every area. And 00:11:54.450 --> 00:11:56.090 we were falling short of that. And we feel like 00:11:56.090 --> 00:11:58.659 that's kind of a minimum amount of - response 00:11:58.659 --> 00:12:01.320 that we need in the community for what's going 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:03.580 on. Well, you know, Thurston County and Olympia 00:12:03.580 --> 00:12:06.340 being kind of almost centrally located, at least 00:12:06.340 --> 00:12:08.100 in the western part of Washington, which is the 00:12:08.100 --> 00:12:10.399 more, you know, highly populated region and being 00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:14.919 the capital is oftentimes a place where the issues 00:12:14.919 --> 00:12:17.210 that are being discussed. in the legislature 00:12:17.210 --> 00:12:20.090 are also really, really felt in this community 00:12:20.090 --> 00:12:21.769 almost every single time, almost every single 00:12:21.769 --> 00:12:24.210 one of them. In some regions of Washington, they'll 00:12:24.210 --> 00:12:25.970 be discussing an item, you know, the legislature 00:12:25.970 --> 00:12:27.870 that has more of an impact maybe in the Northeast 00:12:27.870 --> 00:12:30.669 or has more of an impact in Seattle or more of 00:12:30.669 --> 00:12:32.649 an impact in the Southwest. But it seems like 00:12:32.649 --> 00:12:35.129 Olympia, whenever the legislature is talking 00:12:35.129 --> 00:12:36.690 about something, it's something that Olympia 00:12:36.690 --> 00:12:38.470 is also dealing with, that Thurston County is 00:12:38.470 --> 00:12:40.490 also dealing with. And that's certainly the case 00:12:40.490 --> 00:12:43.409 with what you were just telling us, that you 00:12:43.409 --> 00:12:45.029 guys are making investments in law enforcement. 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:47.879 from your community as well. Yeah, and our prosecuting 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:50.700 attorney, John Tunheim, he always says, I know, 00:12:50.759 --> 00:12:53.440 you know, it's great. I can always tell what's 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:55.549 coming. for Thurston County by just looking at 00:12:55.549 --> 00:12:57.509 what's going on in Pearson King. Yeah. Things 00:12:57.509 --> 00:13:00.389 flow a few years later down the I -5. Right. 00:13:00.450 --> 00:13:03.549 And trends, he's always looking at trends and 00:13:03.549 --> 00:13:05.830 seeing, and we usually see the same trends, whether 00:13:05.830 --> 00:13:09.690 it's a rash of vehicle thefts or eluding cases 00:13:09.690 --> 00:13:14.710 or a certain drug influx, gang activity, all 00:13:14.710 --> 00:13:16.809 those sorts of things. I just met your prosecutor. 00:13:17.500 --> 00:13:19.700 I think just last week seemed like a great guy. 00:13:19.799 --> 00:13:22.159 He is a really good guy. So what are these other 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:25.659 programs that you mentioned? I kind of said they're 00:13:25.659 --> 00:13:29.100 innovative criminal justice programs. And I know 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:31.240 some of them are diversion programs and other 00:13:31.240 --> 00:13:34.659 things. Why don't you describe a couple of them 00:13:34.659 --> 00:13:36.580 to us? I'll take through a few things and then 00:13:36.580 --> 00:13:38.399 I'll describe a couple of them in a little more 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:42.450 detail. Law enforcement assisted diversion. That's 00:13:42.450 --> 00:13:44.110 something that a lot of people are familiar with. 00:13:44.149 --> 00:13:46.289 It started in Seattle and then kind of went national. 00:13:46.590 --> 00:13:49.450 And then now different groups all over the place 00:13:49.450 --> 00:13:52.649 are kind of tapping into it. So you called that 00:13:52.649 --> 00:13:56.029 law enforcement assisted diversion? Yes, LEAD. 00:13:56.250 --> 00:13:58.230 Okay. So when I think of diversion programs, 00:13:58.409 --> 00:14:01.009 I think of things like drug court or family court 00:14:01.009 --> 00:14:03.710 or juvenile court, right? Where instead of sending 00:14:03.710 --> 00:14:07.570 a juvenile who might've shoplifted a small item 00:14:07.570 --> 00:14:12.759 to I don't know, electronic home monitor or something 00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:14.639 like that. We might have them do some community 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:16.960 service for a while. Is that the type of program 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:18.700 that you're talking about here? It is, although 00:14:18.700 --> 00:14:23.899 in its classic form. LEAD tries to empower the 00:14:23.899 --> 00:14:26.879 law enforcement officers so that they can, like 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:29.620 what you're describing usually happens after 00:14:29.620 --> 00:14:32.419 arrest has been made, charge has been referred 00:14:32.419 --> 00:14:35.120 to the prosecutor, prosecutors decided to file 00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:37.740 or in some cases law enforcement can file directly. 00:14:37.899 --> 00:14:40.000 And then there's a court proceeding and then 00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:41.980 the lawyers get together, they get involved and 00:14:41.980 --> 00:14:44.299 they decide to do a diversion out of the court 00:14:44.299 --> 00:14:45.860 system, but it's already in the court system. 00:14:45.980 --> 00:14:47.820 This is trying to get a little ahead of that, 00:14:47.980 --> 00:14:50.460 saving dollars on the court and lawyer side. 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.360 So you're moving that. Up in the process. Moving 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:54.600 it up in the process. Oh, interesting. So it's 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:56.440 not a judge that's actually making a decision 00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:58.240 or lawyers coming together to make a decision. 00:14:58.419 --> 00:15:00.519 Is it the law enforcement themselves? It's the 00:15:00.519 --> 00:15:02.360 law enforcement and officers themselves. They 00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:04.779 have a referral service that they can tap into 00:15:04.779 --> 00:15:08.120 and they can basically, and again, I'll give 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:10.220 a little history. Thurston County tried to do 00:15:10.220 --> 00:15:15.600 this in 2017 and it wasn't well funded. The law 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:17.460 enforcement officers, we didn't have good buy 00:15:17.460 --> 00:15:19.919 -in from the law enforcement officers. So it 00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:22.379 really didn't get utilized and it just withered. 00:15:22.419 --> 00:15:27.059 So let me get this straight. And excuse me if 00:15:27.059 --> 00:15:29.419 I oversimplify because I've never heard of a 00:15:29.419 --> 00:15:32.480 program like this before. I'm imagining myself 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:36.299 maybe. And I don't know. I do something crazy. 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:39.919 I decide to try to outrun a train, right? That's, 00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:43.330 you know. It's a really stupid idea, right? But 00:15:43.330 --> 00:15:46.409 it's also incredibly illegal, right? And I could 00:15:46.409 --> 00:15:48.809 easily get pulled over for that. I could maybe 00:15:48.809 --> 00:15:52.330 even get arrested for reckless endangerment, 00:15:52.350 --> 00:15:54.230 like if I had somebody in the car with me or 00:15:54.230 --> 00:15:57.210 something like that. That's a horrible example, 00:15:57.429 --> 00:16:01.179 isn't it? Let's try something simpler. Maybe, 00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:06.440 you know, maybe I shoplift at the grocery store. 00:16:06.659 --> 00:16:08.480 Maybe, you know, I'm hungry and I don't have 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:10.980 any money and I decide to, you know, take a bag 00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:12.659 of chips and stuff them under my coat. I get 00:16:12.659 --> 00:16:15.220 caught. It's my first offense, something like 00:16:15.220 --> 00:16:18.120 that. Law enforcement officer could, you know, 00:16:18.139 --> 00:16:19.620 they probably do a couple of things, right? They 00:16:19.620 --> 00:16:21.379 could write a ticket. They could sit there and 00:16:21.379 --> 00:16:24.860 write a ticket and give me a fine. They could 00:16:24.860 --> 00:16:27.559 maybe refer me to court and give me that slip 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:29.169 and say, you must appear on such and such. to 00:16:29.169 --> 00:16:30.490 date and that I would have to appear in front 00:16:30.490 --> 00:16:32.830 of the judge. Instead of that, are you saying 00:16:32.830 --> 00:16:34.330 that they could actually write them in there, 00:16:34.429 --> 00:16:39.070 say, in order to avoid going to court, you can 00:16:39.070 --> 00:16:42.009 do so many hours of community service and let 00:16:42.009 --> 00:16:43.909 us know within a certain date and we'll take 00:16:43.909 --> 00:16:45.929 this off your record? It's not exactly like that. 00:16:46.129 --> 00:16:48.610 Okay. So what the law enforcement officer would 00:16:48.610 --> 00:16:51.419 be looking for is somebody that has mental health, 00:16:51.500 --> 00:16:53.659 substance abuse issues that they believe are 00:16:53.659 --> 00:16:55.299 kind of the driver of the criminal activity. 00:16:55.580 --> 00:16:58.000 And then they can tap you into a case manager. 00:16:58.200 --> 00:16:59.960 And if you're willing to engage with that case 00:16:59.960 --> 00:17:03.139 management, then they would have the decision 00:17:03.139 --> 00:17:05.259 not to refer it to the prosecutor or the prosecutor 00:17:05.259 --> 00:17:06.819 would have the decision not to file the charge 00:17:06.819 --> 00:17:09.480 at all. Keep it out of the court system. There 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:11.740 are other programs for something simpler, like 00:17:11.740 --> 00:17:14.140 what you just described. But the LEAD program 00:17:14.140 --> 00:17:17.700 is really about connecting people to where the, 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:20.180 yeah, there's criminal behavior involved. criminal 00:17:20.180 --> 00:17:23.339 charge could be filed, but we can see that there's 00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:25.460 some other things that are going on. Well, not 00:17:25.460 --> 00:17:27.460 even mitigating, but just think there's something 00:17:27.460 --> 00:17:30.819 else driving the behavior that if addressed could 00:17:30.819 --> 00:17:34.619 potentially, you know, stop the cycle. And so 00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:38.259 it's a judgment call. And, you know, and I say 00:17:38.259 --> 00:17:40.940 the classic form because that's how the program 00:17:40.940 --> 00:17:42.920 was designed and that's, we're building toward 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:45.059 that. And that's how a lot of the referrals. 00:17:45.529 --> 00:17:47.390 are growing. It's a growing number of referrals 00:17:47.390 --> 00:17:49.690 from law enforcement, but because when Blake 00:17:49.690 --> 00:17:52.309 happened and COVID happened right when we were 00:17:52.309 --> 00:17:56.190 launching our program, we do get a lot of referrals 00:17:56.190 --> 00:17:58.910 from social service organizations. So they haven't 00:17:58.910 --> 00:18:01.549 actually necessarily been arrested just yet, 00:18:01.690 --> 00:18:04.450 but our lead program has the capacity to take, 00:18:04.470 --> 00:18:07.089 you know, as many referrals as, you know, they're 00:18:07.089 --> 00:18:09.650 looking for referrals from all sources. So if 00:18:09.650 --> 00:18:12.130 a social service agency says this individual 00:18:12.130 --> 00:18:15.549 is on a path of, you know, at risk of, engaging 00:18:15.549 --> 00:18:17.789 in criminal behavior, but because of a substance 00:18:17.789 --> 00:18:21.009 abuse issue or a mental health issue, they can 00:18:21.009 --> 00:18:24.369 send someone to lead. And again, the lead, the 00:18:24.369 --> 00:18:25.910 team, let me just talk a little bit about the 00:18:25.910 --> 00:18:29.650 details of it. Our program has a program manager, 00:18:29.930 --> 00:18:34.369 a case management supervisor, two substance SUD 00:18:34.369 --> 00:18:37.230 or substance abuse disorder outreach coordinators, 00:18:37.250 --> 00:18:39.250 and then eight peer specialist case managers. 00:18:39.410 --> 00:18:41.529 So that's the staffing model of the program. 00:18:41.970 --> 00:18:46.640 When I said that this Program failed in 2017. 00:18:47.599 --> 00:18:51.079 I really credit our prosecutor, John Tunheim, 00:18:51.140 --> 00:18:53.559 for not giving up on the program. The state made 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:56.160 a grant program available to help fund, give 00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.779 it a more robust funding model to where they 00:18:58.779 --> 00:19:01.420 would fund 75 % and the local dollars would fund 00:19:01.420 --> 00:19:04.200 25 % to get it like up and running. Wow. And 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:06.509 he was willing to basically. Even though he got 00:19:06.509 --> 00:19:09.170 beat up pretty bad for the failure in his 2018 00:19:09.170 --> 00:19:11.630 re -election campaign, he was willing to say, 00:19:11.730 --> 00:19:13.490 let's try this again and try to do it right. 00:19:13.650 --> 00:19:15.930 So he partnered with the Public Health and Social 00:19:15.930 --> 00:19:17.829 Services Department at Thurston County. They 00:19:17.829 --> 00:19:20.589 were like the contract recipient. And we built 00:19:20.589 --> 00:19:24.549 the program with our local crisis response organization 00:19:24.549 --> 00:19:26.549 called the Olympic Health and Recovery Service. 00:19:26.769 --> 00:19:29.109 And we built the program again from ground zero. 00:19:29.109 --> 00:19:31.289 And it's been much more successful. So I have 00:19:31.289 --> 00:19:33.109 to imagine the case management piece and those 00:19:33.109 --> 00:19:35.890 eight case managers are key to this, right? And 00:19:35.890 --> 00:19:37.890 it sounds to me like what you just described 00:19:37.890 --> 00:19:41.089 is. or at least what I'm inferring from what 00:19:41.089 --> 00:19:43.210 you described is you can get referrals from multiple 00:19:43.210 --> 00:19:45.789 locations. So the law enforcement officers themselves 00:19:45.789 --> 00:19:48.970 may make a contact, see that there's some sort 00:19:48.970 --> 00:19:51.089 of extenuating circumstance here, some sort of 00:19:51.089 --> 00:19:54.029 contributing factor that maybe is, like you said, 00:19:54.069 --> 00:19:57.730 a substance use issue or some other disability 00:19:57.730 --> 00:20:01.650 that could use treatment like behavioral health 00:20:01.650 --> 00:20:03.730 or something like that. And they can make the 00:20:03.730 --> 00:20:07.609 referral or some of these social service agencies 00:20:07.609 --> 00:20:10.269 that are seeing a pattern of behavior might make 00:20:10.269 --> 00:20:12.569 a referral as well. That's true. Yeah. And, and, 00:20:12.710 --> 00:20:14.849 you know, I like it when the law enforcement 00:20:14.849 --> 00:20:17.289 make it, that's where I want to see us grow that 00:20:17.289 --> 00:20:20.809 component because then you are doing a couple 00:20:20.809 --> 00:20:23.450 of things. You're saving all the resources that 00:20:23.450 --> 00:20:25.750 would go with the lawyers in the court system. 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:29.000 And you're potentially taking burden off law 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:31.180 enforcement officers themselves that don't have 00:20:31.180 --> 00:20:33.700 the training or experience or desire to be case 00:20:33.700 --> 00:20:38.180 managers or social workers. And a lot of times 00:20:38.180 --> 00:20:39.980 they don't want to just haul someone to jail, 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:41.980 but they don't have a choice sometimes. Well, 00:20:42.059 --> 00:20:43.539 if you can keep somebody out of that system, 00:20:43.700 --> 00:20:47.839 right? Somebody who isn't necessarily a criminal, 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:51.259 especially, and you can address that underlying 00:20:51.259 --> 00:20:55.339 issue, you can stop that kind of spiraling of 00:20:55.339 --> 00:20:57.700 recidivism. that can really, people can get caught 00:20:57.700 --> 00:21:00.880 up in. And on that point, I just pulled some 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:04.900 statistics from our dashboard. 58%, this is not 00:21:04.900 --> 00:21:06.819 Thurston County. This is kind of program -wide, 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:11.039 like LEED has shown in some studies. 58 % reduction 00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:13.140 in recidivism for participants. Well, that's 00:21:13.140 --> 00:21:15.880 huge. 89 % more likely to find permanent housing. 00:21:15.940 --> 00:21:19.160 46 % more likely to be employed after like 12 00:21:19.160 --> 00:21:20.759 months in the program. Now, how long has this 00:21:20.759 --> 00:21:23.930 program been going on? Thurston County. We started 00:21:23.930 --> 00:21:28.730 it, I want to say in 2022. Well, we tried, that's 00:21:28.730 --> 00:21:30.630 I think when it got really up and we started 00:21:30.630 --> 00:21:32.430 it in 20, I think we applied for the grant in 00:21:32.430 --> 00:21:36.509 2020. Okay. So, and right now we're able to use, 00:21:36.609 --> 00:21:38.750 we're still getting money from the state. We're 00:21:38.750 --> 00:21:41.049 using local treatment sales tax dollars because 00:21:41.049 --> 00:21:43.269 we have a local treatment sales tax program. 00:21:43.630 --> 00:21:46.640 And then. There was some new legislation about, 00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:48.579 I don't want to get too complicated for folks, 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:51.680 but recovery navigator program, there was a requirement, 00:21:51.900 --> 00:21:54.799 there was money there. And basically that legislation 00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:57.059 said, if you already have a lead program, you 00:21:57.059 --> 00:21:59.720 can sort of connect that up and use that to satisfy 00:21:59.720 --> 00:22:02.500 the new requirements. What we did, we already 00:22:02.500 --> 00:22:05.079 had a lead. So some of our money has now been 00:22:05.079 --> 00:22:07.920 replaced by this new state funding stream. So 00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:11.559 it's all kind of fitting. We're always worried 00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:13.650 about the next. a couple of years down the line. 00:22:13.750 --> 00:22:15.250 Do you think you're getting better outcomes than 00:22:15.250 --> 00:22:17.230 you would otherwise without the program? Absolutely. 00:22:17.470 --> 00:22:19.650 I go to the, like we have a, like a party for 00:22:19.650 --> 00:22:22.009 the, some of the graduates every year. And I've 00:22:22.009 --> 00:22:24.130 been to that two or three times and it's just 00:22:24.130 --> 00:22:26.130 awesome to hear stories. Yeah. We used to do 00:22:26.130 --> 00:22:29.150 that. We used to do that for drug court. in our 00:22:29.150 --> 00:22:31.109 County. I'm sure they're still doing it, but 00:22:31.109 --> 00:22:34.569 you know, it's, you watch someone start at that 00:22:34.569 --> 00:22:37.009 process. Right. And they get an opportunity to 00:22:37.009 --> 00:22:39.369 go through a diversion program. Like you're talking 00:22:39.369 --> 00:22:41.529 about drug courts, another example of that. And 00:22:41.529 --> 00:22:43.769 then they make it all the way through and graduate. 00:22:43.890 --> 00:22:46.269 And it's remarkable what comes out on the other 00:22:46.269 --> 00:22:48.930 end. Yeah, it really is. Do you think it's saving 00:22:48.930 --> 00:22:52.410 Thurston County money? We do. So we have a, what 00:22:52.410 --> 00:22:54.410 we, I create, I helped create a position called 00:22:54.410 --> 00:22:56.670 a criminal regional criminal justice program 00:22:56.670 --> 00:22:59.440 manager. our person left and so that it's vacant 00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:01.420 right now and we're we're hiring for a new one 00:23:01.420 --> 00:23:04.160 but her job you want to make a pitch on the on 00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:06.460 the podcast yeah if anyone's interested in applying 00:23:06.460 --> 00:23:09.059 for this kind of uh great salary benefits and 00:23:09.059 --> 00:23:10.920 living conditions it's a really cool job because 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:12.660 we really want someone to look over the whole 00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:15.220 system and what that's the kind of the and the 00:23:15.220 --> 00:23:16.619 answer to your question is the kind of thing 00:23:16.619 --> 00:23:19.660 i wanted that person to do which is help us analyze. 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:21.279 Yeah. Figure out what the metrics are. Yeah. 00:23:21.339 --> 00:23:24.099 The metrics, how are we benefiting from this? 00:23:24.119 --> 00:23:26.220 Are we saving money here because we're, you know, 00:23:26.220 --> 00:23:29.000 investing money here. Right. And you know, the 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:32.480 early data shows, I think that we are, but yeah, 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:36.680 well, that's good to know. You know, I don't 00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:38.460 want to, I don't want it to sound like it's all 00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:40.160 about saving money because it is about better 00:23:40.160 --> 00:23:43.940 outcomes as well. And better outcomes, even if 00:23:43.940 --> 00:23:46.480 you're investing more upfront. are going to save 00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:50.099 you a lot more down the road. The statistics 00:23:50.099 --> 00:23:53.259 you quoted, 58 % less recidivism. I mean, that's 00:23:53.259 --> 00:23:56.259 huge. 89 % greater chance of finding permanent 00:23:56.259 --> 00:23:58.680 housing compared to others. With the housing 00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:00.680 crisis that we have going on right now and the 00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:03.339 number of homelessness that we're seeing in our 00:24:03.339 --> 00:24:06.140 communities, that's huge as well. And we know 00:24:06.140 --> 00:24:08.420 what it costs to run programs to get people into 00:24:08.420 --> 00:24:12.500 housing on a regular basis and to sustain those 00:24:12.500 --> 00:24:15.319 programs over time. So that's great. you had 00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:16.539 a couple of others that you wanted to mention 00:24:16.539 --> 00:24:18.579 as well. I'll just, I'll just hit a couple other 00:24:18.579 --> 00:24:20.700 things. So another thing we did was we have a. 00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:22.960 a committee called the Innovative Justice Committee. 00:24:23.140 --> 00:24:25.299 And this actually got started before I was on 00:24:25.299 --> 00:24:27.599 the board. I think it was pretty new, but as 00:24:27.599 --> 00:24:30.500 soon as I joined the board in 2019 and I heard 00:24:30.500 --> 00:24:32.799 about it and I have a background as a public 00:24:32.799 --> 00:24:35.099 defender, so I've been attending those meetings 00:24:35.099 --> 00:24:37.660 religiously. It's a group of stakeholders, community 00:24:37.660 --> 00:24:40.839 members, law enforcement attends it. It's run 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:43.779 by one of the prosecuting attorneys, Wayne Graham. 00:24:44.140 --> 00:24:46.200 It's a really great group where we can just talk 00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:49.920 about anything, explore issues like this year's 00:24:49.920 --> 00:24:51.650 project. is to work on re -entry programming. 00:24:51.910 --> 00:24:54.500 But anyway. From that group came the idea that 00:24:54.500 --> 00:24:57.380 we needed what we ended up calling the resource 00:24:57.380 --> 00:24:59.920 hub. We needed like a one -stop shop where people 00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:01.920 could go in and really connect to all the different 00:25:01.920 --> 00:25:04.400 services they needed. And so we looked at some, 00:25:04.519 --> 00:25:07.440 how would we fund this and where would we locate 00:25:07.440 --> 00:25:09.880 it? And because Thurston County's courthouse 00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:12.880 is in flux and we're moving people around buildings 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:15.279 and we moved administration out to a different 00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:18.019 building, we had a corner of a building that 00:25:18.019 --> 00:25:20.140 we could basically start this concept and we 00:25:20.140 --> 00:25:22.220 basically launched it. And it has grown. and 00:25:22.220 --> 00:25:24.720 grown and grown. So when you say... a resource 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.740 hub, a location where people could come and get 00:25:27.740 --> 00:25:30.119 the services or get connected to the things that 00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:32.019 you need. You're talking about folks who need 00:25:32.019 --> 00:25:34.059 different types of social services. Yes. We have 00:25:34.059 --> 00:25:36.539 right now, we have 20 different service providers 00:25:36.539 --> 00:25:39.640 with contracts to come in. And it's kind of the, 00:25:39.680 --> 00:25:42.160 I saw in Pierce County, they had a court resource 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:43.759 center, I think is what they call it. Yeah, they 00:25:43.759 --> 00:25:47.140 do. And I, as a candidate in 2018, I took a tour 00:25:47.140 --> 00:25:49.599 of that and I really was impressed by that. So 00:25:49.599 --> 00:25:51.799 that's kind of where ours isn't quite as big 00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:54.400 as that, but it's along. the same lines yeah 00:25:54.400 --> 00:25:55.759 and i think pierce county would say that that's 00:25:55.759 --> 00:25:58.460 been a pretty successful program as well so essentially 00:25:58.460 --> 00:26:00.059 someone can come in and they're going to find 00:26:00.059 --> 00:26:01.740 are they just going to find information about 00:26:01.740 --> 00:26:04.259 different programs that they could qualify for 00:26:04.259 --> 00:26:06.960 or they can get assessments set up are there 00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:09.359 actually live people there are people there from 00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:11.900 all these different service providers yeah they're 00:26:11.900 --> 00:26:13.940 scheduled on different days like housing person 00:26:13.940 --> 00:26:15.920 might be there tuesday and thursday okay there's 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:17.700 you know mental health assessments on friday 00:26:17.700 --> 00:26:19.980 but they just come they could just come back 00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:21.579 to the exact same location they're not going 00:26:21.579 --> 00:26:24.440 all the time campus and we have a, there's two 00:26:24.440 --> 00:26:26.920 staff. We started with one manager. Actually, 00:26:26.960 --> 00:26:28.940 we started trying to run it out of our pretrial 00:26:28.940 --> 00:26:32.160 service with like a half of an FTE. We clearly 00:26:32.160 --> 00:26:34.640 needed a full FTE and now we needed a second 00:26:34.640 --> 00:26:36.859 FTE. It's grown and grown and grown. We see more 00:26:36.859 --> 00:26:38.660 and more people. We have more and more service 00:26:38.660 --> 00:26:40.900 providers that are coordinated. It's just been, 00:26:40.940 --> 00:26:43.059 it's really taken off. How do the service providers 00:26:43.059 --> 00:26:45.680 coordinate the services that they're providing? 00:26:45.819 --> 00:26:48.460 If that makes sense. You know, one of the things 00:26:48.460 --> 00:26:51.460 that I remember from my days as a county commissioner, 00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:53.269 one of the things we struggled with was we had 00:26:53.269 --> 00:26:56.130 a lot of service providers, but it was hard for 00:26:56.130 --> 00:27:00.089 the service providers to kind of track. the people 00:27:00.089 --> 00:27:03.390 that were being served here for this thing and 00:27:03.390 --> 00:27:05.769 served here for that thing and served here for 00:27:05.769 --> 00:27:07.869 this thing, right? They didn't have a lot of 00:27:07.869 --> 00:27:09.829 communication. Does this resource hub change 00:27:09.829 --> 00:27:12.250 that? Is there some sort of central database 00:27:12.250 --> 00:27:14.630 now that everybody kind of logs into and they 00:27:14.630 --> 00:27:17.990 can kind of see when a person presents with a 00:27:17.990 --> 00:27:19.210 need, what they're getting, what they're not 00:27:19.210 --> 00:27:21.329 getting, where the gaps might be, that sort of 00:27:21.329 --> 00:27:23.670 stuff? I think the answer to that is yes. And 00:27:23.670 --> 00:27:26.700 you're almost segueing into the third. program 00:27:26.700 --> 00:27:28.640 I wanted to highlight, which is what we call 00:27:28.640 --> 00:27:31.680 the Court Alternative Program, or TCAP, Thurston 00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:34.259 County Court Alternative Program. It's a pilot 00:27:34.259 --> 00:27:37.380 we just started. It is based on the San Diego's 00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:40.119 homeless court, which has been around for like 00:27:40.119 --> 00:27:43.900 25 years. Commissioner Mejia and our pretrial 00:27:43.900 --> 00:27:46.380 services director and some of our criminal justice 00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:48.299 program manager went down there and actually... 00:27:48.650 --> 00:27:51.549 met the folks and observed it in action. What's 00:27:51.549 --> 00:27:53.170 a homeless court? Because I've not heard of that 00:27:53.170 --> 00:27:55.750 before. I've heard of the other ones that I mentioned, 00:27:55.849 --> 00:27:56.950 but I've not heard of that. It's kind of weirdly 00:27:56.950 --> 00:27:59.730 named because you don't have to be homeless to 00:27:59.730 --> 00:28:02.289 be part of it. It's kind of like what you started 00:28:02.289 --> 00:28:04.809 with when you were giving me a hypothetical about 00:28:04.809 --> 00:28:06.829 LEAD. It's like somebody that does some very 00:28:06.829 --> 00:28:10.549 low level offense. And it basically, rather than 00:28:10.549 --> 00:28:13.109 using up court time and court resources, you 00:28:13.109 --> 00:28:16.349 have MOUs with service providers. And the reason 00:28:16.349 --> 00:28:18.039 I say this connects to the resource hub is because 00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:20.400 we use the resource hub network of service providers 00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:23.900 to do this and the service provider, basically. 00:28:24.019 --> 00:28:28.259 So the re the resource hub coordinator chooses 00:28:28.259 --> 00:28:31.119 a service provider. Now you may have three or 00:28:31.119 --> 00:28:33.559 four different problems, but we choose one to 00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:35.680 be kind of like the lead and they, and they agree 00:28:35.680 --> 00:28:38.319 in their MOUs that they're going to look at holistically 00:28:38.319 --> 00:28:40.480 at like all the problems, like the SIPA lead 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:43.099 agency, if you have a project and you come up 00:28:43.099 --> 00:28:46.630 with a, with a service plan and then And then 00:28:46.630 --> 00:28:49.410 they basically, everybody in the court side just 00:28:49.410 --> 00:28:50.930 says, we're going to give you six months to see 00:28:50.930 --> 00:28:53.309 what you can do. The service provider does all 00:28:53.309 --> 00:28:55.769 of it and then sends it. And then one month before 00:28:55.769 --> 00:28:59.890 the court date, the team checks in and then an 00:28:59.890 --> 00:29:02.690 advocacy letter, it's called, gets provided by 00:29:02.690 --> 00:29:04.990 the service provider back to the team, which 00:29:04.990 --> 00:29:06.809 then the court, it either goes back to court 00:29:06.809 --> 00:29:08.569 or it gets dismissed. Oh, that's interesting. 00:29:08.670 --> 00:29:11.509 So put myself in the shoes of the person who 00:29:11.509 --> 00:29:15.140 maybe. committed the offense. So this is a program 00:29:15.140 --> 00:29:20.500 where I can say, okay, do I go to court first? 00:29:20.539 --> 00:29:22.700 And the court says, look, you've got this opportunity 00:29:22.700 --> 00:29:26.500 or we can do that. Okay. So we go to court, the 00:29:26.500 --> 00:29:28.579 prosecutor and the public defender agree that 00:29:28.579 --> 00:29:30.900 I would be eligible for this type of program 00:29:30.900 --> 00:29:33.559 and I get to choose. They say, look, buddy, look, 00:29:33.640 --> 00:29:36.430 Paul, here's your deal. You can spend two weeks 00:29:36.430 --> 00:29:38.470 in jail or you can try this other program and 00:29:38.470 --> 00:29:41.829 get this wiped off your record. Is that kind 00:29:41.829 --> 00:29:44.450 of the end result? Yeah, it gets dismissed, essentially. 00:29:44.450 --> 00:29:47.250 It gets dismissed. So then I would go in and 00:29:47.250 --> 00:29:50.869 someone is in charge. It's not a probation officer. 00:29:51.029 --> 00:29:53.170 It's some sort of social services provider. Yeah, 00:29:53.230 --> 00:29:56.009 you'd check in at the resource hub. So having 00:29:56.009 --> 00:29:58.950 the resource hub, it's not a requirement to having 00:29:58.950 --> 00:30:00.630 this court alternative program, but it really 00:30:00.630 --> 00:30:03.309 was a good synergy. Yeah, it would work perfectly. 00:30:03.450 --> 00:30:06.509 Works perfectly. you go there, they assign you 00:30:06.509 --> 00:30:08.670 to one of our service providers that we have 00:30:08.670 --> 00:30:12.089 MOUs with as your, your lead service provider. 00:30:12.410 --> 00:30:14.970 And then, then, then what's the beauty of it 00:30:14.970 --> 00:30:19.579 is. it's taken care of there okay and um so what 00:30:19.579 --> 00:30:21.400 what would i what would i have to do you have 00:30:21.400 --> 00:30:23.220 to go to your service provider kind of have an 00:30:23.220 --> 00:30:25.140 assessment of like what all are your needs that 00:30:25.140 --> 00:30:27.299 are driving the the you know the minor offenses 00:30:27.299 --> 00:30:29.339 that you're engaged in okay and then they'll 00:30:29.339 --> 00:30:31.119 come up with a plan and as long as you engage 00:30:31.119 --> 00:30:33.920 in that plan and follow through you'll get an 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.589 advocacy letter back to the court team to say 00:30:37.589 --> 00:30:39.630 this person's on track they've done what the 00:30:39.630 --> 00:30:41.869 what we asked them to do and what would the plan 00:30:41.869 --> 00:30:44.690 be like i i need to maybe attend some counseling 00:30:44.690 --> 00:30:49.089 sessions maybe i need to um substance abuse treatment 00:30:49.089 --> 00:30:51.490 is a big yeah get some treatment maybe find some 00:30:51.490 --> 00:30:56.609 housing maybe uh at least you know get um a resume 00:30:56.609 --> 00:30:58.890 in order and things like that for self -sufficiency 00:30:58.890 --> 00:31:00.289 down the road is that the kind of thing that 00:31:00.289 --> 00:31:01.789 those are the kind of things yeah i mean it's 00:31:01.789 --> 00:31:05.880 not as intensive as what you'd see in the your 00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:08.460 case manager is going to actually really help 00:31:08.460 --> 00:31:12.460 you food, shelter. I mean, it's a lot more hands 00:31:12.460 --> 00:31:15.920 -on intensive. These are more minor offenses 00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:18.660 and a little more hands -off. More personal responsibility. 00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:21.240 More personal responsibility, more like a traditional 00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:23.519 diversion program. But what's different is, and 00:31:23.519 --> 00:31:25.420 why it's different from drug court that you're 00:31:25.420 --> 00:31:27.859 familiar with is, those are all super monitored 00:31:27.859 --> 00:31:30.119 by court. And even though they're very successful, 00:31:30.420 --> 00:31:33.799 they suck up a lot of court. resources and time 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:35.819 yeah the case management on those is pretty intensive 00:31:35.819 --> 00:31:38.039 this is for sure this is creating a different 00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:40.640 model where maybe lower level folks can this 00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:43.720 can be done with less you know public resources 00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:45.579 is there any punishment involved like community 00:31:45.579 --> 00:31:48.259 service or anything like that if you follow through 00:31:48.259 --> 00:31:50.839 uh there and there's no punishment if you fail 00:31:50.839 --> 00:31:53.640 out you just your your case just gets processed 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:56.839 as normal okay um you're not punished. If you 00:31:56.839 --> 00:31:58.960 decide to withdraw, Hey, this isn't for me. You 00:31:58.960 --> 00:32:03.420 just go back to the court system. I see. So, 00:32:03.559 --> 00:32:06.240 but, but no, if you follow through, then you 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:09.160 won't have to, I mean, they may include community 00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:12.549 service. inappropriate cases but i'm not i don't 00:32:12.549 --> 00:32:14.410 know how often that gets included yeah that's 00:32:14.410 --> 00:32:16.529 interesting we've just started this i should 00:32:16.529 --> 00:32:20.490 say uh we built it over 20 end of 2023 and 2024 00:32:20.490 --> 00:32:24.349 i think december was our first um participant 00:32:24.349 --> 00:32:27.890 and we're just we're just like getting the pilot 00:32:27.890 --> 00:32:31.109 rolling and and with our criminal program manager 00:32:31.109 --> 00:32:33.809 who kind of put this all together uh departing 00:32:33.809 --> 00:32:37.869 uh we're we're you know, we're still just getting 00:32:37.869 --> 00:32:40.250 people lined up to start the pilot. And then 00:32:40.250 --> 00:32:42.049 there's supposed to be a report back to the commissioners. 00:32:42.049 --> 00:32:43.829 So your lead program has been going for a few 00:32:43.829 --> 00:32:46.230 years. Your resource hub has been in place for 00:32:46.230 --> 00:32:48.609 a little while at least. And you're just getting 00:32:48.609 --> 00:32:50.970 started with this new program. Wow. Well, you 00:32:50.970 --> 00:32:53.230 guys are busy over there. We're busy and we've 00:32:53.230 --> 00:32:55.069 done all kinds of other stuff too. I won't, I 00:32:55.069 --> 00:32:57.049 won't, we won't have time to talk about today, 00:32:57.150 --> 00:32:59.829 but, and I just want to say that we've been able 00:32:59.829 --> 00:33:02.630 to do this. So I came in as a former public defender 00:33:02.630 --> 00:33:05.210 with a criminal justice kind of plank to my like 00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:08.460 to see the mission of what I wanted to do as 00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:11.599 a commissioner. We had three board members when 00:33:11.599 --> 00:33:13.779 I joined, one of whom was a five -time former 00:33:13.779 --> 00:33:16.259 sheriff and one was a former Olympia police officer, 00:33:16.519 --> 00:33:18.180 Commissioner Hutchings and Commissioner Edwards. 00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:21.119 So I didn't know if I would get anywhere with 00:33:21.119 --> 00:33:24.180 these ideas. And I was so pleasantly surprised 00:33:24.180 --> 00:33:26.599 of all the different things that we've butted 00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:29.710 heads on or tried to do together. We have really, 00:33:29.829 --> 00:33:31.650 and again, the board has changed over completely, 00:33:31.769 --> 00:33:33.990 but right from the get -go, there was collaboration 00:33:33.990 --> 00:33:38.029 with the county commission and the prosecuting 00:33:38.029 --> 00:33:39.690 attorney who isn't always on board for these 00:33:39.690 --> 00:33:41.630 kinds of things. Well, yeah. And the sheriff's 00:33:41.630 --> 00:33:44.180 office. I mean, we've worked - across Thurston 00:33:44.180 --> 00:33:47.579 County stakeholders with the concept that incarceration 00:33:47.579 --> 00:33:51.500 is not always the most cost -effective and outcome 00:33:51.500 --> 00:33:54.480 -effective solution in every case. And we can 00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:56.500 maybe do better if we think outside the box. 00:33:56.660 --> 00:33:59.380 So I really just want to, you know, I came in 00:33:59.380 --> 00:34:01.279 thinking that I'd have to educate everyone about 00:34:01.279 --> 00:34:03.220 all this stuff and I didn't. I've been able to 00:34:03.220 --> 00:34:06.160 give a really big push and prioritize it financially 00:34:06.160 --> 00:34:09.079 when the budget questions come up and are we 00:34:09.079 --> 00:34:10.840 going to fund this? And I'm like, yes, yes, yes. 00:34:11.079 --> 00:34:13.539 But I want to give a lot of kudos to my stakeholder 00:34:13.539 --> 00:34:16.420 collaborators across Thurston County in the justice 00:34:16.420 --> 00:34:19.679 world, because everybody has, including law enforcement 00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:22.960 agencies and cities, have really been on the 00:34:22.960 --> 00:34:25.829 same page. That's great. Yeah. So it's really, 00:34:25.869 --> 00:34:26.989 I've been really proud of it. You know, there's 00:34:26.989 --> 00:34:29.449 been a real shift societally, I think, when we 00:34:29.449 --> 00:34:32.929 think about the law and justice system in general, 00:34:33.070 --> 00:34:35.389 right? And we try to figure out, okay, how are 00:34:35.389 --> 00:34:40.789 we going to make sure that the outcomes after 00:34:40.789 --> 00:34:43.610 the fact, right, are better than they were before? 00:34:43.650 --> 00:34:45.570 Because that's really what we're trying to achieve. 00:34:45.769 --> 00:34:48.389 I mean, there are heinous crimes that are committed, 00:34:48.510 --> 00:34:51.389 right? There is still evil in the world. And 00:34:51.389 --> 00:34:53.849 there is a place for that type of person. I think 00:34:53.849 --> 00:34:57.630 we all agree on that. And that's a really unfortunate 00:34:57.630 --> 00:34:59.710 part of humanity, but it's something that we 00:34:59.710 --> 00:35:03.670 as a society, as a civil community have to deal 00:35:03.670 --> 00:35:05.650 with. But there's a lot of other things out there 00:35:05.650 --> 00:35:08.889 that if you can just get people into the right 00:35:08.889 --> 00:35:12.230 system, if you can kind of just show them a better 00:35:12.230 --> 00:35:15.110 way of doing things and they're responsive to 00:35:15.110 --> 00:35:17.630 that, then we're all better off in the long run, 00:35:17.690 --> 00:35:20.309 right? And rather than getting people... Because 00:35:20.309 --> 00:35:24.179 I think that... History has shown that the real 00:35:24.179 --> 00:35:28.699 problem can be when we just lock people away 00:35:28.699 --> 00:35:31.900 and we don't try to rehabilitate them. They just 00:35:31.900 --> 00:35:34.619 end up reoffending and reoffending and reoffending. 00:35:34.619 --> 00:35:38.139 They get caught in that spiral, right? And none 00:35:38.139 --> 00:35:39.760 of us are better off. And in fact, it ends up 00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:41.659 costing us all a lot more in the long run as 00:35:41.659 --> 00:35:44.820 well. So these types of programs are great. It's 00:35:44.820 --> 00:35:48.440 really great to hear that when you joined the 00:35:48.440 --> 00:35:51.079 board and it was essentially the old sheriff, 00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:53.940 the old police chief and the public defender, 00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:57.420 that they were as open -minded to these programs 00:35:57.420 --> 00:35:59.780 as they were. Pretty much, yeah. I was really 00:35:59.780 --> 00:36:01.900 pleasantly surprised, and we've got a lot done 00:36:01.900 --> 00:36:04.280 because of that. I'm sure it was their experience. 00:36:05.659 --> 00:36:07.800 seeing the human condition on a day in and day 00:36:07.800 --> 00:36:11.440 out basis, right? Seeing those people on the 00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:12.880 street every day and then seeing kind of the 00:36:12.880 --> 00:36:15.039 outcomes long -term as they saw the same people 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:17.599 over and over and over again and weren't able 00:36:17.599 --> 00:36:19.340 to get them, you know, the services that really 00:36:19.340 --> 00:36:20.860 could have helped change their lives. So that's 00:36:20.860 --> 00:36:24.119 great news. That's really great to hear. Yeah. 00:36:24.139 --> 00:36:26.260 I mean, you know, we have a history in our country 00:36:26.260 --> 00:36:28.199 of over -incarceration. I mean, the statistics, 00:36:28.340 --> 00:36:30.579 if you read the history of like the drug, you 00:36:30.579 --> 00:36:33.139 know, the war on drugs in the 70s and 80s and 00:36:33.139 --> 00:36:35.440 we, you know, obviously there's different ways 00:36:35.440 --> 00:36:37.400 to go about these problems because, you know, 00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:39.619 we incarcerate, you know, at that point, you 00:36:39.619 --> 00:36:42.039 know, as of like the early 90s, we just had like 00:36:42.039 --> 00:36:44.699 historic human rates of incarceration. Yeah, 00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:46.039 especially in the United States, right? Yeah. 00:36:46.250 --> 00:36:47.909 So it was, you know, it was time for a different 00:36:47.909 --> 00:36:49.809 approach. And it's, yeah, it's really become 00:36:49.809 --> 00:36:52.349 a depoliticized issue, like oddly. Yeah, no, 00:36:52.409 --> 00:36:54.550 I think it has. You know, it really has. It's 00:36:54.550 --> 00:36:58.110 been mainstreamed a little bit in many ways societally. 00:36:58.170 --> 00:36:59.550 And I think that's a good thing. I think that's 00:36:59.550 --> 00:37:01.389 a good change. You know, on a pretty gray day, 00:37:01.570 --> 00:37:03.610 this has actually been a pretty uplifting conversation. 00:37:04.429 --> 00:37:06.110 I didn't think it was going to be. You know, 00:37:06.190 --> 00:37:08.650 I sit here sometimes and we talk about cops or 00:37:08.650 --> 00:37:10.889 we talk about corrections. And it's, you know, 00:37:10.909 --> 00:37:13.750 a lot of doom and gloom and not necessarily kind 00:37:13.750 --> 00:37:16.010 of, you know, light at the end. of the tunnels 00:37:16.010 --> 00:37:17.590 kind of stuff. But it sounds like things are 00:37:17.590 --> 00:37:20.110 really going well, at least, you know, in some 00:37:20.110 --> 00:37:23.090 ways in the justice system here in Thurston County. 00:37:23.210 --> 00:37:25.030 And I'm sure a lot of that is because of the 00:37:25.030 --> 00:37:27.010 work that you and your colleagues are doing. 00:37:27.110 --> 00:37:29.429 And I'm glad that you came and shared it with 00:37:29.429 --> 00:37:31.530 us. Thanks so much for stopping by. Yeah, thanks, 00:37:31.610 --> 00:37:34.570 Paul. Well, before we end, I know you're a big 00:37:34.570 --> 00:37:36.570 baseball fan. You said that earlier. How do you 00:37:36.570 --> 00:37:37.670 think the Mariners are going to do this year? 00:37:37.750 --> 00:37:40.510 Are we playing in October or not? I want to say 00:37:40.510 --> 00:37:43.869 yes. You want to say yes. Well, you know, there 00:37:43.869 --> 00:37:46.550 was this last series with the Astros was kind 00:37:46.550 --> 00:37:48.570 of impressive. I don't want to, I don't want 00:37:48.570 --> 00:37:50.849 to, you know, get us in trouble for licensing 00:37:50.849 --> 00:37:54.150 for licensing violations or anything for talking 00:37:54.150 --> 00:37:56.349 about the Mariners. But, uh, I thought their 00:37:56.349 --> 00:37:59.750 last, uh, series with, um, the Astros was actually, 00:37:59.809 --> 00:38:02.130 uh, a little bit of hope maybe that the bats 00:38:02.130 --> 00:38:04.989 might come alive. Yep. It's always eternal hope 00:38:04.989 --> 00:38:08.010 in April. Yeah. If we can get Kirby back. Yeah. 00:38:08.250 --> 00:38:11.809 Yeah. Well, um, let's hope, uh, let's hope that, 00:38:11.909 --> 00:38:14.510 uh, maybe we can come back in October and talk 00:38:14.510 --> 00:38:16.969 about the great playoff run, uh, that Seattle's 00:38:16.969 --> 00:38:18.929 involved in. That'd be awesome. That'd be awesome. 00:38:19.019 --> 00:38:21.239 Well, thanks for coming by, Commissioner. It's 00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:23.900 great seeing you. And thanks for doing your first 00:38:23.900 --> 00:38:25.900 podcast here on the County Connection Podcast. 00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:28.019 Yeah, I enjoyed it. Thank you so much. All right. 00:38:28.039 --> 00:38:32.179 Take care. Ciao. Thanks for tuning in to County 00:38:32.179 --> 00:38:34.519 Connection. Stay in the loop by subscribing to 00:38:34.519 --> 00:38:36.699 us through your preferred podcasting app and 00:38:36.699 --> 00:38:39.320 following us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. 00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:41.739 And don't forget to join The Hub, your go -to 00:38:41.739 --> 00:38:43.719 source for the latest news and updates from the 00:38:43.719 --> 00:38:46.139 Washington State Association of Counties. Until 00:38:46.139 --> 00:38:48.380 next time, stay connected and stay informed.