WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.840 Got a little popcorn, I got a little soda, I 00:00:01.840 --> 00:00:03.940 got a little cartoon, and I was in my footie 00:00:03.940 --> 00:00:06.960 pajamas, and off I went. Great night. Slumberland. 00:00:09.400 --> 00:00:11.820 Welcome to County Connection, the official podcast 00:00:11.820 --> 00:00:14.140 of the Washington State Association of Counties, 00:00:14.140 --> 00:00:16.519 where we dive into the legislative issues shaping 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:18.980 the future of our communities. From budgets to 00:00:18.980 --> 00:00:21.899 public safety, infrastructure to elections, we'll 00:00:21.899 --> 00:00:24.539 break down what's happening in Olympia and how 00:00:24.539 --> 00:00:26.519 it impacts counties from across the Evergreen 00:00:26.519 --> 00:00:29.649 State. Stay informed, stay engaged, and join 00:00:29.649 --> 00:00:32.229 us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39 00:00:32.229 --> 00:00:36.740 counties. Welcome back, everybody, to the County 00:00:36.740 --> 00:00:40.439 Connection podcast. I'm Paul Jewell, your host 00:00:40.439 --> 00:00:42.960 and government relations director for the Washington 00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:46.439 State Association of Counties. Today is April 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:49.859 2nd. It's one day after April Fool's Day. It 00:00:49.859 --> 00:00:52.479 is indeed. Back here in the studio. It's actually 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:54.460 pretty early today. I think this is the earliest 00:00:54.460 --> 00:00:56.840 I've ever recorded a podcast, and I'm glad to 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:58.979 be doing it with you, Brad. Well, look at us, 00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:02.140 Paul Jewell, just, you know, waking up. Bushy 00:01:02.140 --> 00:01:03.899 -tailed, bright -eyed, came in here and said, 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.159 let's do a podcast. Let's do a podcast. Let's 00:01:06.159 --> 00:01:08.319 start the day out on a good note here. That sounds 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:09.579 good. What are we going to talk about today? 00:01:09.780 --> 00:01:11.299 We're going to talk about public safety today. 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:12.540 We're going to talk cops. We're going to talk 00:01:12.540 --> 00:01:15.099 public safety. Okay. Maybe we'll talk a little 00:01:15.099 --> 00:01:17.400 jail. Yeah, that sounds good. A little jail action. 00:01:17.480 --> 00:01:19.120 Today's another big day here at the legislature. 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:22.200 It's cutoff day. It is. And I would be remiss 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:24.060 if I didn't say happy cutoff day. Happy cutoff 00:01:24.060 --> 00:01:27.000 indeed. I feel like we're kind of, I think you 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:29.640 and I are doing sort of these podcasts. We seem 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:31.549 to be following the cutoff calendar. We seem 00:01:31.549 --> 00:01:33.329 to be doing that. Well, it's just a great time 00:01:33.329 --> 00:01:35.450 to do a podcast. It is. Things are a little quieter. 00:01:35.709 --> 00:01:37.569 Well, and when you're talking about, you know, 00:01:37.590 --> 00:01:40.890 kind of landmarks to the legislative session, 00:01:41.049 --> 00:01:43.750 right? Or good moments in the legislative session. 00:01:43.969 --> 00:01:46.310 You're right. It's a good point to sort of reflect 00:01:46.310 --> 00:01:48.230 on where things are sitting. Yeah, when you have 00:01:48.230 --> 00:01:50.450 these points at, you know, these points at where 00:01:50.450 --> 00:01:54.420 you're... making a big change or things die or 00:01:54.420 --> 00:01:56.159 things move forward. It's just a great time to 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:58.920 update everybody as to what's going on. And now 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:01.879 this is the second half of the session, the first 00:02:01.879 --> 00:02:03.920 cutoff of the second half. The next ones are 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:05.680 going to come really fast. Yeah, I was just going 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:07.760 to say, right? The calendar starts to get really 00:02:07.760 --> 00:02:11.219 quick. Yeah. And your time to get things done 00:02:11.219 --> 00:02:14.909 in between those cutoffs is... On some level, 00:02:14.949 --> 00:02:18.129 you trade off that you don't have the deluge 00:02:18.129 --> 00:02:21.289 of things that you're working on. But now you've 00:02:21.289 --> 00:02:24.629 got the clock. Now you're fighting the clock. 00:02:24.669 --> 00:02:26.469 And you're racing against that. And everything 00:02:26.469 --> 00:02:31.250 is a lot more clear. So we know what is important 00:02:31.250 --> 00:02:33.009 to work on, what's not important to work on. 00:02:33.969 --> 00:02:35.949 One of the ones that we talked about with you 00:02:35.949 --> 00:02:40.030 a while back was the proposal in the House, which 00:02:40.030 --> 00:02:43.169 was House Bill 2015. you're talking you know 00:02:43.169 --> 00:02:45.229 when we're talking about cops right that's kind 00:02:45.229 --> 00:02:48.129 of the bill there's that one and was it 5766 00:02:48.129 --> 00:02:52.789 in the senate was uh 5775 5775 yeah is uh are 00:02:52.789 --> 00:02:55.129 both of those bills still alive no so just house 00:02:55.129 --> 00:02:57.830 bill 2015 is is kind of the you know how they 00:02:57.830 --> 00:02:59.389 do this when you have really similar similar 00:02:59.389 --> 00:03:01.830 vehicles in each chamber right eventually one 00:03:01.830 --> 00:03:04.289 of them gets weeded out and so yes that's what 00:03:04.289 --> 00:03:07.729 happened to 5775 and and now 2015 is kind of 00:03:07.729 --> 00:03:11.050 the primary vehicle in this kind of local tax 00:03:11.050 --> 00:03:15.469 public safety, governor's request for law enforcement 00:03:15.469 --> 00:03:17.729 funding, all of that kind of getting jammed into 00:03:17.729 --> 00:03:19.610 this one. That's all wrapped into this one bill, 00:03:19.610 --> 00:03:21.169 right? It's a pretty important bill. So let's 00:03:21.169 --> 00:03:22.990 remind folks where we are. And just to be really 00:03:22.990 --> 00:03:27.639 clear, 5775. is dead, but it's really officially 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:30.120 dead, I suppose, as of five o 'clock today. That's 00:03:30.120 --> 00:03:31.780 correct. So assuming it doesn't move forward, 00:03:31.840 --> 00:03:34.900 and every indication is that it won't, we'll 00:03:34.900 --> 00:03:37.360 update folks if that changes. But let's remind 00:03:37.360 --> 00:03:39.759 folks of where we were. So you mentioned kind 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:41.460 of, you know, the governor's priority around 00:03:41.460 --> 00:03:45.120 law enforcement. You know, there's been really 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:48.900 this sentiment, I think, felt by members of the 00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:51.300 legislature, especially the majority party has 00:03:51.300 --> 00:03:53.460 mentioned several times that their constituents 00:03:53.460 --> 00:03:55.550 really want more investment in. public safety 00:03:55.550 --> 00:03:57.909 and law enforcement. And now we've got this bill. 00:03:58.050 --> 00:03:59.710 So how are these things all wrapped up together? 00:03:59.870 --> 00:04:02.289 Let's just maybe two minutes to remind people 00:04:02.289 --> 00:04:03.689 of kind of what the situation is. Yeah, sure. 00:04:03.830 --> 00:04:06.409 And I think just from a start, I think it's important 00:04:06.409 --> 00:04:08.710 to remember that this is coming on a lot of previous 00:04:08.710 --> 00:04:13.219 sessions where there was a lot of... really emotional 00:04:13.219 --> 00:04:15.840 and hot button issues related to law enforcement, 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:17.959 right? Yeah. Like police chases. That's right. 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:20.839 Decriminalization. Exactly. Types of activity, 00:04:20.980 --> 00:04:23.439 right? Yep. What were some of the other ones? 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:24.839 Well, there's been some, you know, there's been 00:04:24.839 --> 00:04:26.920 issues like the George Floyd incident. Police 00:04:26.920 --> 00:04:28.480 brutality issues. Police brutality has been there. 00:04:28.560 --> 00:04:30.439 So yeah, it's been sort of a, you know, it's 00:04:30.439 --> 00:04:32.639 sort of interesting to me. I think that we've, 00:04:32.639 --> 00:04:34.019 we kind of went through some, and a lot of that 00:04:34.019 --> 00:04:35.519 happened during the pandemic, right? Which is 00:04:35.519 --> 00:04:37.040 interesting. So there was already kind of, so 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:38.639 some of this was happening in a virtual way, 00:04:38.759 --> 00:04:40.680 which was, which was weird, right? Because we 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:42.360 were in that different space. But yeah, so we've 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:45.199 come through that into, you know, really a very 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:47.579 different tone within the legislature this year 00:04:47.579 --> 00:04:50.800 in terms of where they're the issues that they're 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:52.500 focusing on in this space. And it really has 00:04:52.500 --> 00:04:54.920 been around law enforcement. That's not to say 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:57.319 everybody's in agreement. Right. That this is 00:04:57.319 --> 00:04:59.379 the right way to go or should be the top priority. 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:01.879 But a lot of that was ushered in by by our new 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:03.800 governor, Governor Ferguson. Right. He talked 00:05:03.800 --> 00:05:05.860 a lot on the campaign about wanting to make public 00:05:05.860 --> 00:05:08.879 safety and law enforcement. a big priority uh 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:10.680 you'll hear it quoted all over the hill whenever 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:12.819 any of these bills come up that we're like you 00:05:12.819 --> 00:05:16.779 know 43rd or 45th or 49th or whatever we are 00:05:16.779 --> 00:05:18.639 in the state in terms of you know how many officers 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:20.980 or deputies well i think it's 50th i was gonna 00:05:20.980 --> 00:05:22.959 say actually i think it is 50th which i kind 00:05:22.959 --> 00:05:24.339 of laugh every time i hear it because i'm like 00:05:24.339 --> 00:05:26.319 when pretty soon we're probably going to be like 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:27.860 they're going to have territories that are ahead 00:05:27.860 --> 00:05:30.379 of us right like guam is going to be ahead of 00:05:30.379 --> 00:05:32.759 us or whatever so yeah so we're we're definitely 00:05:32.759 --> 00:05:36.399 you know that that is a talking point um i'm 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:38.279 never i'm not 100 % convinced that that's a, 00:05:38.420 --> 00:05:40.300 you know, you look at that, that doesn't necessarily 00:05:40.300 --> 00:05:42.399 equate to, I think it's a reflection of what 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:45.060 communities want oftentimes, right? And so those 00:05:45.060 --> 00:05:48.180 numbers can be a little bit of a grain of salt 00:05:48.180 --> 00:05:49.819 maybe to some of that. But regardless, we are 00:05:49.819 --> 00:05:51.240 definitely at the bottom of the list in terms 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:53.680 of law enforcement spending and personnel. So 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:56.250 this bill has been an attempt to try to... pull 00:05:56.250 --> 00:05:59.149 together the desires of the new governor, who's 00:05:59.149 --> 00:06:01.170 made this very clear. But also, as you noted, 00:06:01.209 --> 00:06:04.490 Paul, a pretty notable portion of the caucuses 00:06:04.490 --> 00:06:07.329 saying public safety needs to be a part of our 00:06:07.329 --> 00:06:08.970 conversation. Well, and that's really remarkable, 00:06:09.230 --> 00:06:11.689 I think, this year and seems to be a major shift 00:06:11.689 --> 00:06:13.850 in the legislature. Definitely. Because there 00:06:13.850 --> 00:06:16.350 are still members in the legislature. I mean, 00:06:16.370 --> 00:06:17.709 it's kind of like the membership that we have 00:06:17.709 --> 00:06:19.829 here at WASAC, right? Whenever there's a controversial 00:06:19.829 --> 00:06:21.850 issue, there's a lot of people in the middle, 00:06:21.870 --> 00:06:24.370 but there's also usually a pretty good segment 00:06:24.370 --> 00:06:27.069 on one side. the other completely extreme i mean 00:06:27.069 --> 00:06:29.389 yeah and the right this and this issue is polarizing 00:06:29.389 --> 00:06:32.350 yeah and they're definitely are still members 00:06:32.350 --> 00:06:34.629 of the legislature, some of which are really 00:06:34.629 --> 00:06:37.310 pro -law enforcement, and others that are very 00:06:37.310 --> 00:06:40.569 distrustful of law enforcement. And then there's 00:06:40.569 --> 00:06:42.769 a whole bunch in the middle. And in the past 00:06:42.769 --> 00:06:45.930 few years, it's kind of been those who are more 00:06:45.930 --> 00:06:48.889 distrustful of law enforcement that have kind 00:06:48.889 --> 00:06:51.410 of been running the agenda. Definitely been pushing 00:06:51.410 --> 00:06:54.069 the policy. And that pendulum has really kind 00:06:54.069 --> 00:06:56.230 of moved over now, right? It has. And I think, 00:06:56.250 --> 00:06:59.180 interestingly... What do you think is driving 00:06:59.180 --> 00:07:01.279 that? You know, I don't know. It's curious to 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:03.379 me. I mean, I do think, you know, the governor 00:07:03.379 --> 00:07:05.779 sort of putting that on the table. I think definitely. 00:07:05.899 --> 00:07:07.939 Sure. That was that was a big change from the 00:07:07.939 --> 00:07:09.899 past because Governor Inslee was not interested 00:07:09.899 --> 00:07:12.899 in that at all. Yeah, I think there's been I 00:07:12.899 --> 00:07:14.879 think, honestly, it's probably a confluence of 00:07:14.879 --> 00:07:18.339 a number of factors that have sort of either 00:07:18.339 --> 00:07:21.139 organically or or just through sheer coincidence. 00:07:21.199 --> 00:07:22.980 I don't know, but they've sort of come together 00:07:22.980 --> 00:07:26.189 to form this. this pretty significant, as you 00:07:26.189 --> 00:07:27.769 point out, shift in the what we're doing. I think 00:07:27.769 --> 00:07:29.269 some of that has been what we've talked about 00:07:29.269 --> 00:07:31.490 in this podcast in terms of juvenile rehabilitation, 00:07:31.829 --> 00:07:34.269 right? So there's been a big focus on youth crime 00:07:34.269 --> 00:07:37.829 and sort of what's happening in that space. Well, 00:07:37.889 --> 00:07:39.790 statistically, there's been a huge increase in 00:07:39.790 --> 00:07:41.329 youth crime. Huge, more than any other, really, 00:07:41.430 --> 00:07:43.449 than any other demographic. Did a lot of that 00:07:43.449 --> 00:07:45.370 happen during the pandemic or directly after? 00:07:45.449 --> 00:07:47.750 It was kind of during and then directly after 00:07:47.750 --> 00:07:49.410 is when we really saw that dramatic uptick. And 00:07:49.410 --> 00:07:51.470 then you had the backlog. Because of the pandemic. 00:07:51.529 --> 00:07:53.550 So a lot of those cases weren't being processed 00:07:53.550 --> 00:07:55.449 until fairly recently. Right. And so I think 00:07:55.449 --> 00:07:58.430 that there was this sort of ever present. I think 00:07:58.430 --> 00:07:59.790 we've been dealing with something that's been 00:07:59.790 --> 00:08:01.930 sort of bubbling under the surface in terms of 00:08:01.930 --> 00:08:03.810 a policy standpoint for a while. Right. Where 00:08:03.810 --> 00:08:06.970 it's like, OK, we've got this juvenile crime 00:08:06.970 --> 00:08:09.829 problem that and it's not little stuff. Right. 00:08:09.870 --> 00:08:11.430 These are kind of major crimes that we're dealing 00:08:11.430 --> 00:08:14.230 with. And then you pair that with, I think, some 00:08:14.230 --> 00:08:15.889 of the conversations we've had around police 00:08:15.889 --> 00:08:20.000 reform, around the role. Then also the role of 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:22.079 law enforcement, frankly, and behavioral health. 00:08:22.560 --> 00:08:24.860 And so the role that that and this is through 00:08:24.860 --> 00:08:27.560 a variety of ways, whether we just see more and 00:08:27.560 --> 00:08:29.959 more individuals calling in 911 needing behavioral 00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:32.440 health services. We now have 988, which is there. 00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:36.460 We've got this whole local growth of co -responder 00:08:36.460 --> 00:08:38.860 type programs, field response teams. So, I mean, 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:40.980 I think there's just been a confluence of external 00:08:40.980 --> 00:08:43.379 factors that have focused this conversation. 00:08:44.230 --> 00:08:46.269 I think what's what's do you think the housing 00:08:46.269 --> 00:08:48.450 crisis and yeah, that's a good point. I think 00:08:48.450 --> 00:08:50.710 the housing crisis. Yeah, sure. Yeah, sure. I 00:08:50.710 --> 00:08:52.169 don't know why it wouldn't. But again, I think 00:08:52.169 --> 00:08:54.110 that's also linked to some of our behavioral 00:08:54.110 --> 00:08:55.769 health conversation. Right. So it's like I feel 00:08:55.769 --> 00:08:57.889 like all of this is sort of inextricably. Yeah, 00:08:58.009 --> 00:08:59.990 they're all sort of. Yeah, they're linked to 00:08:59.990 --> 00:09:02.769 each other. Right. Yeah. Because I think that, 00:09:02.769 --> 00:09:05.230 you know, for the legislature to hear from their 00:09:05.230 --> 00:09:09.980 constituency, it. To me, that's a sign that people 00:09:09.980 --> 00:09:13.000 are not feeling as safe. That's right. In their 00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:14.899 neighborhoods. Yeah. In their cities. Or they're 00:09:14.899 --> 00:09:16.940 seeing things they didn't see before. Yeah. Right. 00:09:16.980 --> 00:09:18.639 They're seeing, like you mentioned, the opioid 00:09:18.639 --> 00:09:20.720 epidemic. I mean, that's a classic one, too, 00:09:20.740 --> 00:09:22.320 that we didn't talk about. Right. There's been 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:25.059 so much drug use, frankly. I think that's been 00:09:25.059 --> 00:09:26.879 so front and center, particularly in urban areas, 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:28.559 but not just in urban areas. It's very much of 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:30.399 an issue in rural areas, too. And so I think 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:33.200 people are just seeing it in their surroundings 00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:35.779 in a way that they hadn't in a long time. Right. 00:09:36.379 --> 00:09:38.250 You know, speaking earlier. It's like when you 00:09:38.250 --> 00:09:41.389 grew up, it was the DARE program and it was these 00:09:41.389 --> 00:09:44.129 kind of things. And I remember cocaine was such 00:09:44.129 --> 00:09:46.190 a huge epidemic back in the day, back in the 00:09:46.190 --> 00:09:49.210 80s. Yeah, cocaine and then crack and then meth. 00:09:49.409 --> 00:09:51.450 Right, exactly. Now we've gotten up into the 00:09:51.450 --> 00:09:54.730 fentanyl and opioids. And again, it's just so 00:09:54.730 --> 00:09:56.629 present. And I think for a lot of these factors, 00:09:56.730 --> 00:09:57.870 whether it's behavioral health, whether it's 00:09:57.870 --> 00:10:00.870 homelessness. whatever it might be. And so I 00:10:00.870 --> 00:10:02.870 think there's just a heightened awareness at 00:10:02.870 --> 00:10:05.289 the moment. I do think the other thing that's 00:10:05.289 --> 00:10:07.090 interesting right now is, and this has come up 00:10:07.090 --> 00:10:09.169 a lot in the policy conversations, is historically, 00:10:09.250 --> 00:10:12.210 regardless of the sort of issues that have been 00:10:12.210 --> 00:10:14.990 going on, the state has not played a significant 00:10:14.990 --> 00:10:19.139 role in funding or directing. local law enforcement 00:10:19.139 --> 00:10:21.700 type work yeah that's a big shift yeah we talked 00:10:21.700 --> 00:10:23.700 about that the last time when we were chatting 00:10:23.700 --> 00:10:26.179 about this yeah the state um actually having 00:10:26.179 --> 00:10:29.299 a proposal to fund local law enforcement is something 00:10:29.299 --> 00:10:31.639 that really fairly unprecedented yeah it's unheard 00:10:31.639 --> 00:10:34.639 of yeah it wasn't something that we've ever really 00:10:34.639 --> 00:10:37.419 seen no yeah and and they're still they're still 00:10:37.419 --> 00:10:39.600 going down that road at this they are and i do 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:42.149 think that has not been I mean, to your point 00:10:42.149 --> 00:10:44.450 about the contentious nature of this, I don't 00:10:44.450 --> 00:10:46.570 think that's been lost on members, right? There 00:10:46.570 --> 00:10:48.389 are certainly some that are like, we've never 00:10:48.389 --> 00:10:50.110 done this, and we don't want to start doing this, 00:10:50.210 --> 00:10:52.570 right? I think there are others that are kind 00:10:52.570 --> 00:10:54.309 of, like you said, that bulk in the middle that 00:10:54.309 --> 00:10:55.549 are sort of like, yeah, but we've got all these 00:10:55.549 --> 00:10:57.450 issues we need to deal with, and this seems like 00:10:57.450 --> 00:10:59.149 one that we need to start paying attention to 00:10:59.149 --> 00:11:01.409 and figuring out what our role is as a state 00:11:01.409 --> 00:11:06.049 in local law enforcement. Yeah, so that's such 00:11:06.049 --> 00:11:08.409 a great setup, and I think you really captured 00:11:08.409 --> 00:11:11.580 kind of the moment right that we're dealing with 00:11:11.580 --> 00:11:14.799 so what's going on with this bill then yeah so 00:11:14.799 --> 00:11:17.679 house bill 2015 uh it's it's gone through the 00:11:17.679 --> 00:11:19.179 you know like every bill that goes through the 00:11:19.179 --> 00:11:21.679 process but uh and in fact it just came was exact 00:11:21.679 --> 00:11:23.539 out of uh the law and senate law and justice 00:11:23.539 --> 00:11:26.700 committee yesterday okay uh and it so that one's 00:11:26.700 --> 00:11:29.100 headed to ways and means now oh ways it's gonna 00:11:29.100 --> 00:11:30.620 go to ways and means because it has a pretty 00:11:30.620 --> 00:11:32.580 significant budget components right i think the 00:11:32.580 --> 00:11:34.980 biggest piece um as it came out of the house 00:11:34.980 --> 00:11:37.000 there were some late amendments that from our 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:39.470 view kind of toyed with some of the sequence 00:11:39.470 --> 00:11:41.590 in the way things work in the bill. And maybe 00:11:41.590 --> 00:11:42.730 I should mention that there are kind of three 00:11:42.730 --> 00:11:45.789 key things the bill does. It contains a grant 00:11:45.789 --> 00:11:48.610 program, which is the sort of effort to respond 00:11:48.610 --> 00:11:51.230 to Governor Ferguson's desire for law enforcement. 00:11:51.330 --> 00:11:55.179 So it's a way that local jurisdictions, counties, 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:57.840 cities can access funding to support new law 00:11:57.840 --> 00:11:59.740 enforcement. Now that we've seen the budget proposals, 00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:02.539 have they decided how much they want to put in 00:12:02.539 --> 00:12:04.440 that grant program? You know, so it's kind of 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:05.980 gone back and forth, but I think from what I 00:12:05.980 --> 00:12:07.980 saw, it's about 12 million a year is what they're 00:12:07.980 --> 00:12:10.480 looking at or somewhere in the range of the 25 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:12.659 million. That's a far cry from the 100 million 00:12:12.659 --> 00:12:14.879 that Governor Ferguson wanted. And so I think 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:16.740 that's definitely going to be part of the end 00:12:16.740 --> 00:12:19.259 game negotiations right on this. And again, I 00:12:19.259 --> 00:12:21.460 think some of that has been. As this bill has 00:12:21.460 --> 00:12:23.419 moved, there's been more and more resistance 00:12:23.419 --> 00:12:26.759 to how much they should. I think initially there 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:28.559 was like, OK, we can figure this out. We'll find 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:30.340 where we can get the money. Obviously, we're 00:12:30.340 --> 00:12:32.320 in a difficult budget year, but that momentum 00:12:32.320 --> 00:12:34.440 has waned a bit. And I think there's been a desire 00:12:34.440 --> 00:12:36.419 to sort of push back more. And that 12 million 00:12:36.419 --> 00:12:39.379 is for all counties and cities. It is. So you've 00:12:39.379 --> 00:12:42.080 got, what, 260 some cities. Yeah, that's become 00:12:42.080 --> 00:12:44.460 some pretty thin peanut butter. You start spurting 00:12:44.460 --> 00:12:48.600 it around. Yeah. If everybody got even. an equitable 00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:51.200 amount based on, say, a population allocation 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:52.940 or something like that. Well, and there's continuing 00:12:52.940 --> 00:12:54.940 concerns about sort of the ongoing nature of 00:12:54.940 --> 00:12:56.759 that, right? And if you're going to use a grant 00:12:56.759 --> 00:12:59.299 to hire someone, you may have those funds for 00:12:59.299 --> 00:13:01.580 the grant period, but then what do you do once 00:13:01.580 --> 00:13:03.279 those run out? So that's been an ongoing, certainly 00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:04.639 something that counties and cities have been 00:13:04.639 --> 00:13:06.620 highly engaged in that conversation. And we talked 00:13:06.620 --> 00:13:08.799 about that the last time, too, right? Sustainability 00:13:08.799 --> 00:13:12.019 is a challenge. Right, right. And you get a grant, 00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:14.419 and that grant runs out in two years. That's 00:13:14.419 --> 00:13:15.399 right. You're not going to have the money in 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:17.690 two years after that. No. Oh, and it's interesting, 00:13:17.809 --> 00:13:19.409 right? Because in other parts of the bill, right, 00:13:19.470 --> 00:13:21.149 there's a smaller part of the bill that provides 00:13:21.149 --> 00:13:23.529 some additional funding into the criminal justice 00:13:23.529 --> 00:13:25.850 training account, which is good. And also some... 00:13:26.420 --> 00:13:28.299 sort of training requirements and other pieces. 00:13:28.620 --> 00:13:31.419 But I think the biggest piece of it really at 00:13:31.419 --> 00:13:33.940 this point is the local one -tenth option, local 00:13:33.940 --> 00:13:35.840 one -tenth sales tax option. So that's still 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:37.740 in the bill? It is still in the bill. And I think 00:13:37.740 --> 00:13:39.940 it's probably the part that we are most heavily 00:13:39.940 --> 00:13:43.340 engaged on in terms of a revenue tool that local 00:13:43.340 --> 00:13:45.080 jurisdictions, particularly counties, could use 00:13:45.080 --> 00:13:47.919 to fund public safety. I will say what's interesting 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:50.519 about it is the public safety definition in that 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:53.700 bill is quite broad. And it includes a lot of 00:13:53.700 --> 00:13:55.159 the things that I think we just talked about 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:57.419 earlier. in terms of how we're viewing our public 00:13:57.419 --> 00:13:59.960 safety system, right? We're talking about, obviously, 00:14:00.139 --> 00:14:02.779 sheriff's deputies and city cops. I mean, all 00:14:02.779 --> 00:14:06.200 of that's part of it. But there's a huge component 00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:08.879 on sort of, you know, that community policing 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.139 concept, right? In terms, you know, behavioral 00:14:11.139 --> 00:14:15.919 health response, sensitivity to cultural and 00:14:15.919 --> 00:14:19.139 racial issues, right? A lot of desire to look 00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:23.480 at diversion, right? You know, so it's not just 00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:26.220 a... quote unquote, cops bill. Right. I mean, 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:28.659 and I think that's something that from a county 00:14:28.659 --> 00:14:30.360 perspective, because we work on all of those 00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.740 types of issues, that's important to us. Right. 00:14:32.779 --> 00:14:34.799 That broad definition is important. Yeah. So 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:36.379 that's interesting. So so there's currently. 00:14:36.909 --> 00:14:39.230 There's currently two other one -tenth options 00:14:39.230 --> 00:14:42.970 for local governments, right, for law enforcement. 00:14:43.090 --> 00:14:45.529 One is focused on adult and juvenile facilities, 00:14:46.250 --> 00:14:49.009 meaning corrections, right? The second is really 00:14:49.009 --> 00:14:51.429 focused exclusively on law enforcement, I believe. 00:14:51.570 --> 00:14:54.169 And then there's up to three -tenths, and that 00:14:54.169 --> 00:14:55.970 one's broader, right? It is much broader. That 00:14:55.970 --> 00:14:58.129 one talks about more of the system, but it doesn't 00:14:58.129 --> 00:14:59.789 go into all the things that you're talking about, 00:14:59.870 --> 00:15:01.269 right? It doesn't list out all these details. 00:15:01.409 --> 00:15:04.529 Yeah, and so this one now is another new one 00:15:04.529 --> 00:15:07.970 -tenth, right? You're saying it goes even broader. 00:15:08.009 --> 00:15:09.710 So it's certainly not facilities. It's certainly 00:15:09.710 --> 00:15:12.889 not just law enforcement. And it's kind of like 00:15:12.889 --> 00:15:15.250 the three tenths, but even goes further into 00:15:15.250 --> 00:15:19.009 alternatives. That's right. You know, other parts 00:15:19.009 --> 00:15:21.330 of community policing. Right. Other parts of 00:15:21.330 --> 00:15:23.429 the system that intersect directly with law enforcement. 00:15:23.470 --> 00:15:25.529 Right. Keeping people, you know, law enforcement 00:15:25.529 --> 00:15:27.690 as a tool. You know, I think this is this is 00:15:27.690 --> 00:15:29.230 how far we've come. Right. That law enforcement 00:15:29.230 --> 00:15:31.539 is now an active tool in keeping people. out 00:15:31.539 --> 00:15:34.240 of the justice system. Right. Which I think, 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:35.940 you know, a decade ago would have been a very 00:15:35.940 --> 00:15:37.559 different conversation. That wasn't their role. 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:40.259 Right. And so they are now playing this sort 00:15:40.259 --> 00:15:42.340 of active diversion role, this active response 00:15:42.340 --> 00:15:44.200 to people experiencing behavioral health crisis. 00:15:44.279 --> 00:15:46.559 So it's being a cop is a much different thing 00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:48.740 than it used to be. Yeah. Right. For sure. For 00:15:48.740 --> 00:15:51.279 sure, because they encounter a lot of other situations 00:15:51.279 --> 00:15:53.039 that they haven't encountered in the past because 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:55.000 we've changed the way society works. I was just 00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:57.379 going to say society is more complex. I mean, 00:15:57.379 --> 00:15:58.840 maybe that's up for debate. I don't know. But 00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:00.399 it feels to me that it's more complex. Well, 00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:02.360 I think it is. And the lens with which we view 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:05.059 it is different. Yeah. When you think about how 00:16:05.059 --> 00:16:07.320 we used to institutionalize a lot of people who 00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:10.340 had different types of disabilities or mental 00:16:10.340 --> 00:16:11.559 health issues. A lot of that was out of sight, 00:16:11.580 --> 00:16:13.279 out of mind. Right. Get these individuals out 00:16:13.279 --> 00:16:16.259 of sight. They weren't at home. Right. They weren't 00:16:16.259 --> 00:16:18.639 out on the street. They didn't. have a crisis 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:21.720 you know in public oftentimes that a law enforcement 00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:23.659 would react to and not necessarily understand 00:16:23.659 --> 00:16:25.639 what that person was going through right just 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:28.559 think that they you know were on some sort of 00:16:28.559 --> 00:16:30.879 substance or whatever when that's not the case. 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:32.960 Exactly. Right. And not understand that that 00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:36.159 person may not understand the commands that they're 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:38.460 being given. Right. And so the law enforcement 00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:40.820 would react differently. Of course. And we want 00:16:40.820 --> 00:16:43.080 them to react differently in those situations. 00:16:43.100 --> 00:16:44.919 Yeah. It's been an evolution. Right. And I think 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:46.519 in a lot of ways, a very positive evolution. 00:16:46.700 --> 00:16:49.600 Yeah, I agree. But it definitely is just different. 00:16:49.700 --> 00:16:52.279 Right. And I think so. I think this bill is a 00:16:52.279 --> 00:16:55.259 good reflection, I think, of where we are and 00:16:55.259 --> 00:16:57.220 sort of and I think all the debate around. it, 00:16:57.220 --> 00:16:59.919 right, is a good encapsulation of sort of where 00:16:59.919 --> 00:17:01.940 we are as a state and what are we grappling with, 00:17:02.019 --> 00:17:05.319 right? Not only in terms of our, in the public 00:17:05.319 --> 00:17:07.640 safety space, but in the broader, you know, how 00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:10.279 do we want to live space, right? And this is 00:17:10.279 --> 00:17:11.799 really, I think, at the heart of that for a lot 00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:14.519 of people. Yeah. So this bill has come out of 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:16.160 policy committee. It is. It's going to head over 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:17.400 to Ways and Means. It's going to head to Ways 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:19.700 and Means. You expect it to get out of Ways and 00:17:19.700 --> 00:17:21.519 Means? I do. I think this is, you know, at this 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:24.279 point, this is kind of the primary. I think the 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:27.160 most robust, and I've said this in testimony 00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:29.180 a number of times, right? This bill kind of holds, 00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:30.980 like you mentioned, there's other vehicles out 00:17:30.980 --> 00:17:33.019 there. But I think in terms of public safety, 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:35.670 this one is a more complete package. for lack 00:17:35.670 --> 00:17:38.329 of a better term, in light of the different components 00:17:38.329 --> 00:17:40.230 of the bill, right, that it tries to address 00:17:40.230 --> 00:17:42.470 multiple things. And so I do think this will 00:17:42.470 --> 00:17:44.869 continue to be a big part of the conversation 00:17:44.869 --> 00:17:46.930 through the rest of the session. Okay. Has it 00:17:46.930 --> 00:17:49.089 changed much when it came over from the House 00:17:49.089 --> 00:17:51.250 to the Senate? It sort of did. I mean, it changed 00:17:51.250 --> 00:17:53.750 a bit, and then it kind of has now reverted back. 00:17:54.029 --> 00:17:56.190 The Senate sort of reverted back to some of the 00:17:56.190 --> 00:17:58.890 earlier versions that were part. It came out 00:17:58.890 --> 00:18:00.829 as there were some confusing, and I don't know 00:18:00.829 --> 00:18:02.670 how much of it was intentional versus just, you 00:18:02.670 --> 00:18:04.250 know, how this place is. It can be fast. People 00:18:04.250 --> 00:18:06.130 think. they're making a change for this reason. 00:18:06.210 --> 00:18:07.470 And it turns out like, oh, well, actually, that 00:18:07.470 --> 00:18:09.569 makes things more complicated. So there were 00:18:09.569 --> 00:18:11.250 some technical issues that kind of got caught 00:18:11.250 --> 00:18:14.970 up in. But I think from a philosophical standpoint, 00:18:15.230 --> 00:18:17.650 the bill remains largely the same in terms of 00:18:17.650 --> 00:18:19.589 what I think the goal is. Definitely, though, 00:18:19.630 --> 00:18:23.569 as we discussed, we've seen a reduction in the 00:18:23.569 --> 00:18:26.390 amount of money that the state wants to attach 00:18:26.390 --> 00:18:28.089 to it, right? So that, you know, we're not talking 00:18:28.089 --> 00:18:30.549 $100 million anymore, right? Right. For example. 00:18:31.009 --> 00:18:34.019 However, when you think about How much that one 00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:35.859 -tenth could raise at the local level, right? 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:39.299 It could far exceed $100 billion depending on 00:18:39.299 --> 00:18:41.079 how many jurisdictions actually take advantage 00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:42.460 of it. Completely. I mean, it could dwarf it, 00:18:42.500 --> 00:18:44.500 right? And so I think the conversation between 00:18:44.500 --> 00:18:46.180 the governor's office and the legislature has 00:18:46.180 --> 00:18:48.460 to be, you know, sorry to use this phrase, but 00:18:48.460 --> 00:18:49.819 it's like there's more than one way to skin a 00:18:49.819 --> 00:18:52.420 cat, right? I mean, and so on some level. Sorry, 00:18:52.500 --> 00:18:54.740 cat lovers. I know. Sorry. I'm a cat lover. I'm 00:18:54.740 --> 00:18:57.099 a cat lover. I think we may have touched on that 00:18:57.099 --> 00:18:58.940 in some previous. You know, every Swifty who's 00:18:58.940 --> 00:19:01.079 listening to this is now no longer a brat. Giving 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:04.079 me a thumbs down. There's more than one way to 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:07.160 solve a complex problem. There you go. And this 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:09.039 one. More than one way to eat a watermelon. There 00:19:09.039 --> 00:19:10.779 you go. That's the way to do it. Yeah. So I think 00:19:10.779 --> 00:19:13.200 from our, you're right. And so I think it's going 00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.539 to be a policy debate, right? In terms of how 00:19:15.539 --> 00:19:17.660 do we want to say we're making the investments, 00:19:17.859 --> 00:19:19.579 right? Is it purely just, are we going to put 00:19:19.579 --> 00:19:21.500 everything on a grant, right? That there has 00:19:21.500 --> 00:19:22.920 to be a hundred million or we can't call that 00:19:22.920 --> 00:19:25.460 a win or is it a mix of things? And I think from 00:19:25.460 --> 00:19:27.740 the association's perspective, I think that a 00:19:27.740 --> 00:19:31.390 mix of things better reflects the mix of. need 00:19:31.390 --> 00:19:34.369 that's there, right? That at least in counties, 00:19:34.529 --> 00:19:36.569 our commissioners are seeing, our council members 00:19:36.569 --> 00:19:38.670 are seeing in terms of we've got a lot of things 00:19:38.670 --> 00:19:40.529 in the public safety space that we need to address. 00:19:40.730 --> 00:19:43.049 All the time. Law enforcement personnel is a 00:19:43.049 --> 00:19:44.710 big part of that. You bet it is. But it's not 00:19:44.710 --> 00:19:46.450 the only part of that. No, corrections personnel 00:19:46.450 --> 00:19:48.630 is another big part of that. Exactly. You know, 00:19:48.630 --> 00:19:52.109 some of these alternative options for diversions. 00:19:52.130 --> 00:19:54.170 That's right. And response teams, et cetera. 00:19:54.230 --> 00:19:55.710 So it's just a big part of that. It's just become 00:19:55.710 --> 00:19:58.839 such a more complex space that. I think this, 00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:00.380 like I said, I just think this bill is probably 00:20:00.380 --> 00:20:01.900 a good reflection of that. So we'll see how the 00:20:01.900 --> 00:20:03.339 policy debate goes. I mean, obviously, I think 00:20:03.339 --> 00:20:04.960 we're getting to the point where it is going 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:06.940 to start to be negotiation time between the governor 00:20:06.940 --> 00:20:08.839 and the legislature in terms of what they want 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:10.400 to do funding wise. You know, we have some regular 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:12.500 meetings with the governor's policy staff every 00:20:12.500 --> 00:20:15.259 couple of weeks. In fact, I asked you to cover 00:20:15.259 --> 00:20:17.859 one one time and I think it got canceled. I lucked 00:20:17.859 --> 00:20:22.279 out. Yeah. But there are always interesting conversations. 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:24.140 And we've talked about this a couple of times. 00:20:24.220 --> 00:20:26.400 And the indication that I've gotten so far is, 00:20:26.420 --> 00:20:27.890 you know, while they're watching, the progress 00:20:27.890 --> 00:20:29.970 of the bill, they're pretty supportive. They 00:20:29.970 --> 00:20:31.869 are. In fact, they have testified in support 00:20:31.869 --> 00:20:33.269 of it. Okay. I was wondering if you heard. No, 00:20:33.269 --> 00:20:35.210 yeah. So this is definitely the, that's an important 00:20:35.210 --> 00:20:37.250 point. I'm sorry I didn't mention that. So the 00:20:37.250 --> 00:20:39.990 governor's office has sort of also put their 00:20:39.990 --> 00:20:42.930 flag on this one to say, hey, we like this approach. 00:20:43.170 --> 00:20:46.049 We think it gets there, at least in terms of, 00:20:46.089 --> 00:20:49.150 it's. coming together in the right way um whatever 00:20:49.150 --> 00:20:51.109 the final product will be i don't know but they 00:20:51.109 --> 00:20:52.890 they did testify in support of this bill okay 00:20:52.890 --> 00:20:54.509 in law and justice well that's a good sign then 00:20:54.509 --> 00:20:57.609 agreed agreed so this bill will uh have to get 00:20:57.609 --> 00:21:00.309 through ways and means and then we'll watch the 00:21:00.309 --> 00:21:03.809 floor action on the bill uh is it is a bipartisan 00:21:03.809 --> 00:21:07.529 bill yeah it is i mean i i mean it is and it 00:21:07.529 --> 00:21:09.309 isn't i think what's complex about it right is 00:21:09.309 --> 00:21:11.529 it's both got a public safety component which 00:21:11.529 --> 00:21:13.930 i think obviously is polarizing in in one way 00:21:13.930 --> 00:21:15.869 right and then you've got a tax component of 00:21:15.869 --> 00:21:17.920 it which Which is obviously polarizing in another 00:21:17.920 --> 00:21:19.940 way. Right. So I think, you know, for a lot of 00:21:19.940 --> 00:21:22.160 members, they're being torn between, well, I 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:23.759 want to I want to do something for public safety, 00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:26.279 but I am hesitant to want to do something on 00:21:26.279 --> 00:21:29.240 new taxes. Right. Or we need this tax to fund 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:31.140 these services. But I'm uncomfortable with it 00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:33.559 going to cop. Right. And so I imagine there are 00:21:33.559 --> 00:21:36.319 some parts of the more liberal, progressive women 00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:39.240 that would like it to only go to the more progressive 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:41.559 diversion type 100 percent programs. Right. Yeah. 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:43.160 And there's certainly a lot of folks on the conservative 00:21:43.160 --> 00:21:45.259 side of it who are going, I don't like new taxes. 00:21:45.339 --> 00:21:47.000 Right. If the state wants to do this, they should 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:48.619 come up with the money to do it. Let's bump up 00:21:48.619 --> 00:21:50.500 the grant program. Right. So it's an interesting, 00:21:50.599 --> 00:21:52.000 like I said, it's an interesting debate right 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:53.759 now. And I think it has definitely put legislators 00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:56.579 in a weird place in terms of how they're going 00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:58.299 to support it or not. That's sometimes the best 00:21:58.299 --> 00:22:00.279 type of legislation. You know what? I think you're 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:02.279 exactly right. I think it really forces a lot 00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:04.180 of thought and a lot of compromise, which isn't 00:22:04.180 --> 00:22:06.740 a bad thing. Yeah. I mean, when you got two distinctly 00:22:06.740 --> 00:22:09.240 different parties with different ideologies and 00:22:09.240 --> 00:22:11.960 they both want something similar. They're both 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:13.960 trying to solve a problem. Yeah. You know, you 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:16.299 got to be pragmatic. about things and say, okay, 00:22:16.440 --> 00:22:18.299 how are we going to get this done in a way that... 00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:20.279 both sides can live with. That's right. Yeah. 00:22:20.380 --> 00:22:22.140 So it'll be an interesting one to see how it 00:22:22.140 --> 00:22:24.140 moves. Well, that's kind of the marquee, right? 00:22:24.259 --> 00:22:27.240 I mean, if you had a theater like we were kind 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:29.140 of riffing about before we started, right, and 00:22:29.140 --> 00:22:31.119 you were going to put now showing tonight, it'd 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:33.319 definitely be 2015. It would be in my view. But 00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:35.400 what else is going on? You know, so there's a 00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:37.759 variety of other conversations out there. We 00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:39.740 talked about the juvenile rehabilitation space. 00:22:40.299 --> 00:22:42.140 There's still some bills kind of trickling out 00:22:42.140 --> 00:22:43.619 there. Some of them we like, some of them we 00:22:43.619 --> 00:22:45.440 don't like in terms of what they're trying to 00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:47.519 do. It looked like the budget's kind of held 00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:49.829 up. Yeah, I think for the most part. Yeah, I 00:22:49.829 --> 00:22:51.450 think our, you know, our review of the budget 00:22:51.450 --> 00:22:54.589 so far, both capital and now and operating seem 00:22:54.589 --> 00:22:57.650 to be providing at a pretty similar level kind 00:22:57.650 --> 00:23:00.670 of what the age what DCYF Department of Children, 00:23:00.829 --> 00:23:02.509 Youth and Families has sort of indicated they 00:23:02.509 --> 00:23:04.730 think they need for their various facilities, 00:23:04.890 --> 00:23:07.690 whether that's Echo Glen or Green Hill or Maple 00:23:07.690 --> 00:23:09.710 Lane or whatever it is. Yeah, we were glad to 00:23:09.710 --> 00:23:11.450 see that. Yeah, likewise. Yeah. So, yeah, it 00:23:11.450 --> 00:23:13.470 was great to see those investments there. So 00:23:13.470 --> 00:23:15.680 I think I think there's. a coalescing, at least 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:18.500 in terms of recognizing the need there. There's 00:23:18.500 --> 00:23:19.960 still obviously a lot of conversation happening 00:23:19.960 --> 00:23:21.920 around public defense and kind of the role of 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:24.460 that in this space. And I know WASAC is heavily 00:23:24.460 --> 00:23:28.119 engaged in that. And then we have some ongoing 00:23:28.119 --> 00:23:30.799 work going on with our local jails, right? And 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:32.559 I think maybe we've touched on this before. And 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:34.480 I think when I came on contract with you guys 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:36.180 this year, one of the first things that you and 00:23:36.180 --> 00:23:38.480 I went to together, I think, was a jail modernization 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:40.359 task force. Yeah, their first meeting. Yeah, 00:23:40.380 --> 00:23:41.740 their first meeting, which is very much linked 00:23:41.740 --> 00:23:43.839 to a lot of what we just talked about, right? 00:23:44.009 --> 00:23:47.170 Jail is wanting to be 21st century, which means 00:23:47.170 --> 00:23:49.710 it's not just keeping people behind bars. There's 00:23:49.710 --> 00:23:52.130 a lot that goes into that. There's a ton. You've 00:23:52.130 --> 00:23:55.829 got to have different space for providing different 00:23:55.829 --> 00:23:58.430 services, whether it's behavioral health services 00:23:58.430 --> 00:24:03.390 or substance use, SUD services. Even just normal 00:24:03.390 --> 00:24:08.170 physical health services. Right. We're trying 00:24:08.170 --> 00:24:10.650 to make our facilities more culturally sensitive 00:24:10.650 --> 00:24:13.069 to different types of cultures that might be. 00:24:13.230 --> 00:24:16.230 present in the facility for longer periods of 00:24:16.230 --> 00:24:19.450 time. So there's a lot to think about that we 00:24:19.450 --> 00:24:21.529 didn't think about when we built those facilities. 00:24:21.750 --> 00:24:25.289 The newer ones are from the 80s, right? Even 00:24:25.289 --> 00:24:28.309 the newest ones are old. So even from a physical 00:24:28.309 --> 00:24:31.809 standpoint, structural standpoint, there's problems. 00:24:32.049 --> 00:24:34.390 And they're not pleasant places to be. Now, at 00:24:34.390 --> 00:24:37.009 the same time, we don't necessarily want them 00:24:37.009 --> 00:24:40.210 to be pleasant places to be. But they're definitely 00:24:40.210 --> 00:24:42.660 not... I don't think that they don't reflect 00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:45.019 where I think we'd like to be as a system. Yeah. 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:46.900 I mean, if you're if you're going to reduce recidivism, 00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:47.980 you're going to have to make some investments 00:24:47.980 --> 00:24:50.920 in rehabilitation. That's right. Because you 00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:52.900 don't want people coming out of those facilities 00:24:52.900 --> 00:24:56.960 in worse shape mentally, you know, and cognitively. 00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:59.789 Right. Then they were before they. before they 00:24:59.789 --> 00:25:01.650 got that's right we want them to be able to you 00:25:01.650 --> 00:25:03.630 know return back as productive members of society 00:25:03.630 --> 00:25:06.230 exactly right and that means stuff has to go 00:25:06.230 --> 00:25:08.950 on inside yeah yeah when the when the yeah so 00:25:08.950 --> 00:25:12.049 as you know as i know a lot of people you know 00:25:12.049 --> 00:25:14.529 don't feel like they should be you know needing 00:25:14.529 --> 00:25:16.329 to make those investments because you know that 00:25:16.329 --> 00:25:18.650 is uh i think in many minds it's you know jail 00:25:18.650 --> 00:25:20.849 is still punishment that's right um you know 00:25:20.849 --> 00:25:23.130 and i get that point of view but really if we 00:25:23.130 --> 00:25:26.279 want to make sure that we're getting productive 00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:28.299 people out of those facilities. We just have 00:25:28.299 --> 00:25:31.019 to make those investments. Agreed. I mean, and 00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:33.440 again, I think just to kind of maybe tie a bow 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:34.960 on where we came with this conversation, right? 00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:38.740 We've just evolved as a society in terms of what 00:25:38.740 --> 00:25:42.779 our expectations are for not only what we expect 00:25:42.779 --> 00:25:44.819 policing to look like, but what we expect the 00:25:44.819 --> 00:25:47.380 criminal justice judicial side of that and correction 00:25:47.380 --> 00:25:50.019 side of that to look like. And all of those things 00:25:50.019 --> 00:25:52.240 are changing pretty dramatically and pretty rapidly. 00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:54.930 It's a lot... a lot for communities to deal with 00:25:54.930 --> 00:25:57.289 yeah it'll be interesting to see what this task 00:25:57.289 --> 00:25:59.849 force actually comes up with agreed considering 00:25:59.849 --> 00:26:02.009 all those things and what's happening now right 00:26:02.009 --> 00:26:04.869 uh in the recommendations that they make for 00:26:04.869 --> 00:26:08.089 what investments need to be made in local facilities 00:26:08.089 --> 00:26:11.309 to modernize them for the type of you know inmates 00:26:11.309 --> 00:26:13.470 that's right you know and i think it'll be prime 00:26:13.470 --> 00:26:15.509 for next session conversation right i mean i 00:26:15.509 --> 00:26:17.869 think they're scheduled to wrap up in july with 00:26:17.869 --> 00:26:20.490 their final report due in december uh -huh and 00:26:20.490 --> 00:26:22.470 so yeah it'll be interesting to see if if they 00:26:22.470 --> 00:26:24.890 choose to make a supplemental year, a jail modernization 00:26:24.890 --> 00:26:27.529 year. Yeah. I don't know. It will be interesting, 00:26:27.670 --> 00:26:29.690 and there's never an end to these conversations, 00:26:29.890 --> 00:26:33.369 that's for sure. It's job security, Paul. But 00:26:33.369 --> 00:26:36.220 no, truly, yeah, it's... Yeah. It's not ending 00:26:36.220 --> 00:26:37.900 anywhere in sight. Well, Brad, thanks for the 00:26:37.900 --> 00:26:40.420 update. No, likewise. Thanks for coming by. Appreciate 00:26:40.420 --> 00:26:42.180 it. It's good to see you, especially so early 00:26:42.180 --> 00:26:44.039 in the morning. I know. I feel like energy. Yeah. 00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:45.839 Look at that. We just normally we're just staring 00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.279 at each other looking half dead. I know. I'm 00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:50.880 sure. I'm sure that the level of energy we have 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:52.799 in this room right now is translating into very 00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:54.740 much. So, yeah, the listeners, the listeners 00:26:54.740 --> 00:26:57.279 are getting excited. I hope so. Yeah. Just listen. 00:26:57.420 --> 00:26:59.640 Because in a couple hours, we're just going to 00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:03.160 be a different Brad and Paul. All right, Brad. 00:27:03.220 --> 00:27:05.940 Well, maybe after the. next cutoff yeah we'll 00:27:05.940 --> 00:27:07.640 have you back and we'll kind of check in on where 00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:09.839 things are and see where we're see where we're 00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:12.160 headed that's great all right take care thanks 00:27:12.160 --> 00:27:15.619 for tuning in to county connection stay in the 00:27:15.619 --> 00:27:17.579 loop by subscribing to us through your preferred 00:27:17.579 --> 00:27:20.500 podcasting app and following us on linkedin facebook 00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:23.140 and instagram and don't forget to join the hub 00:27:23.140 --> 00:27:25.440 your go -to source for the latest news and updates 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:27.480 from the washington state association of counties 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:30.519 until next time stay connected and stay informed