1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,200 I asked for an armed escort because it was dark outside after I bought the eggs. 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:05,960 I thought these are so valuable. 3 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,600 You must have some big burly guy who's going to escort me to my car. 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,100 Welcome to County Connection, the official podcast of the Washington 5 00:00:15,100 --> 00:00:18,660 State Association of Counties, where we dive into the legislative issues 6 00:00:18,660 --> 00:00:22,100 shaping the future of our communities from budgets to public safety, 7 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:26,300 infrastructure to elections will break down what's happening in Olympia 8 00:00:26,540 --> 00:00:29,340 and how it impacts counties from across the evergreen state. 9 00:00:29,340 --> 00:00:33,200 Stay informed, stay engaged and join us as we amplify the voice 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,100 of Washington's 39 counties. 11 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,040 Welcome, everybody, to episode five of the County Connection. 12 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,700 I'm Paul Jewell, the government relations director here at the Washington 13 00:00:43,700 --> 00:00:47,940 State Association of Counties and your host for better or for worse today 14 00:00:47,940 --> 00:00:49,740 and every day on the County Connection. 15 00:00:50,340 --> 00:00:51,740 This is our fifth episode. 16 00:00:51,740 --> 00:00:57,440 We are one day away from the fiscal cutoff here in Olympia, 17 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,240 and I have a special guest with me and we're going to talk taxes. 18 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,340 And that's Candice Bach with the Association of Washington Cities. 19 00:01:05,140 --> 00:01:06,340 Candice, how are you doing? 20 00:01:06,340 --> 00:01:07,140 I'm doing well, Paul. 21 00:01:07,140 --> 00:01:09,740 Thanks for having me on the counties podcast. 22 00:01:09,740 --> 00:01:13,940 Yeah, well, you know, you're the first city person that we've had 23 00:01:13,940 --> 00:01:14,840 on the county podcast. 24 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,840 We've brought some guests in from other places, some former employees 25 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,640 and some agency folks, but you are the first non-county person. 26 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:30,740 So hopefully this works out well and I'm honored or I maybe you won't have me back. 27 00:01:30,740 --> 00:01:33,240 We'll see. I was just going to say hopefully it'll work out well 28 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,140 and we'll have you back, you know, 10 or 15 times. 29 00:01:35,140 --> 00:01:38,940 But, you know, counties and cities are partners on a lot of things. 30 00:01:39,340 --> 00:01:42,540 You and I certainly work together quite a bit, especially this year 31 00:01:42,540 --> 00:01:45,140 since roles have changed here at WSAC. 32 00:01:45,140 --> 00:01:47,340 You and I have gotten to know each other quite a bit. 33 00:01:47,540 --> 00:01:51,840 And I'm not afraid to admit you've saved my bacon a few times as I've been. 34 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,040 That's what partners are for. 35 00:01:54,140 --> 00:01:55,740 Well, I really do appreciate it. 36 00:01:55,740 --> 00:01:59,840 I'm into a bunch of policy areas that I have never worked in before. 37 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:03,340 And truth be told, I've blown it a couple of times. 38 00:02:03,740 --> 00:02:06,840 And you've been there to kind of watch my back and pick up the pieces, 39 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:08,440 which I really appreciate. 40 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:09,440 So thank you for that. 41 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:14,040 And thanks for joining us today to talk about everyone's favorite subject, 42 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:15,540 which is property taxes. 43 00:02:15,540 --> 00:02:17,940 Yeah. Oh my gosh. People love property taxes. 44 00:02:17,940 --> 00:02:20,640 They're always asking for more property taxes. 45 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:22,240 Higher property taxes. 46 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,940 It's always it comes up no matter what it does. 47 00:02:24,940 --> 00:02:27,240 It I know I can just be walking down the street and they'll be 48 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:28,240 aren't you that county's guy? 49 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:30,140 Hey, how do I get to pay higher property taxes? 50 00:02:30,140 --> 00:02:31,240 Yeah, exactly. 51 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:33,640 Yeah, you know, my taxes aren't high enough. 52 00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:35,740 I just really think I should be paying more. 53 00:02:36,540 --> 00:02:38,740 Well, that's not true. 54 00:02:38,740 --> 00:02:42,740 And but it is something that you and I need to talk about 55 00:02:42,740 --> 00:02:46,840 because we just had a meeting today with a broad coalition 56 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:48,940 that we've been working with for a while. 57 00:02:48,940 --> 00:02:51,540 And we've been working on this issue for many years. 58 00:02:51,540 --> 00:02:54,140 And that's the one percent property tax growth limit 59 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,940 for both cities and counties and other taxing districts 60 00:02:57,540 --> 00:02:59,440 here in Washington state. 61 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:00,440 What are we trying to do? 62 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:04,840 You know, we being both the city's association and the county's association 63 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,840 have been trying to increase that growth limit from one percent 64 00:03:09,640 --> 00:03:13,240 up to just a modest three percent for 20 years or more. 65 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:14,540 Now feels that long, doesn't it? 66 00:03:14,540 --> 00:03:17,440 It is. We have been saying it's been a generation, 67 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:22,640 which makes me feel particularly old since I remember when it was six percent. 68 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:23,640 You don't look old at all. 69 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:25,840 Thank you, Paul. You're welcome. 70 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,440 But it's been a challenge for 20 years or better. 71 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,740 And when we talk to our cities and I know it's true for counties as well, 72 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:38,740 they're saying there's a structural deficit and we can't keep going 73 00:03:38,740 --> 00:03:40,340 the way we've been going. 74 00:03:40,340 --> 00:03:43,840 We are we are literally doing much more with much less. 75 00:03:43,940 --> 00:03:46,140 And something's got to change. 76 00:03:46,140 --> 00:03:50,340 So so let's talk about how we got here first, because I want to dive into that. 77 00:03:50,340 --> 00:03:55,440 And then I want to talk about why it's important that we try to 78 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,740 what you characterize as fix this, because I think a lot of people 79 00:03:58,740 --> 00:04:03,540 would not characterize this this, meaning the limit being broken 80 00:04:04,140 --> 00:04:07,540 versus kind of what you're talking about, which was 81 00:04:07,940 --> 00:04:10,040 I think you described it as a structural deficit. 82 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:11,240 So I want to get into that. 83 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:14,340 But how did we get here to begin with? Because cities and counties 84 00:04:14,340 --> 00:04:16,340 didn't used to have these limitations, right? 85 00:04:16,340 --> 00:04:22,140 We used to have authority, I think, up to to grow the property tax rate 86 00:04:22,340 --> 00:04:25,640 up to six percent annually not that long ago. 87 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:27,340 So how did we end up in this situation? 88 00:04:27,340 --> 00:04:32,240 Yeah, you know, I think we did have that that growth limit up to six percent. 89 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:36,440 And that was up until the late 90s. 90 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,340 It was what 2001, I want to say, when 91 00:04:39,340 --> 00:04:45,640 there was a voter initiative and put forward to to cap that growth rate. 92 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,040 And obviously, voters don't like paying property tax. 93 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:53,440 So that's pretty popular to to be told that you could really reduce that growth rate. 94 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:57,740 One percent seemed to be picked arbitrarily just to make sure 95 00:04:57,740 --> 00:05:01,180 that it was a really significant limit. Just a low number. 96 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:02,540 Yeah, just a low number. 97 00:05:02,540 --> 00:05:07,680 And, you know, after I think, gosh, I want to say like five, six years of court battles. 98 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,380 The initiative was actually overturned as unconstitutional. 99 00:05:10,980 --> 00:05:15,580 But then the legislature came back and in a one day special session 100 00:05:16,580 --> 00:05:18,980 enacted it. And so here we are. 101 00:05:18,980 --> 00:05:23,580 So even though the courts said that the initiative from 2001, which, by the way, 102 00:05:23,580 --> 00:05:27,480 was initiative 747 for you history buffs out there who want to look up the history 103 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:33,380 of initiatives, which I know you're listening after because it was it was in 2007. 104 00:05:33,380 --> 00:05:35,380 So it's about six years of court battles. 105 00:05:35,380 --> 00:05:38,480 They the Supreme Court finally ruled it was unconstitutional. 106 00:05:38,780 --> 00:05:42,680 But the legislature then came back and put it back in place. 107 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:43,680 Why did they do that? 108 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,980 You know, gosh, I can actually remember some of it. 109 00:05:47,380 --> 00:05:51,080 I wasn't in this role then, but I was working for a city at the time. 110 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,480 And, you know, I think it was a couple of things. 111 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,180 They were certainly feeling like, well, this must have been the will of the voters. 112 00:05:57,180 --> 00:06:01,480 And there was also some concern about bank capacity. 113 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:07,880 And if you didn't put it into place again, that that six percent that we had the 114 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:12,980 ability to increase by had been would have been banked for those seven years. 115 00:06:12,980 --> 00:06:15,580 Oh, seven years. That's 42 percent. 116 00:06:15,580 --> 00:06:18,180 That is fast, Paul. You are good with math in your head. 117 00:06:18,580 --> 00:06:19,780 That is not my skill set. 118 00:06:19,780 --> 00:06:23,580 Back in the fourth grade, we had these flashcards and multiplication tables. 119 00:06:23,580 --> 00:06:25,580 I think we called them times tables back then. 120 00:06:25,580 --> 00:06:25,980 Oh, yeah. 121 00:06:25,980 --> 00:06:27,980 But I'm much more sophisticated now as an adult. 122 00:06:27,980 --> 00:06:29,380 I call them multiplication tables. 123 00:06:29,380 --> 00:06:31,580 Well, yeah, that's impressive. 124 00:06:31,580 --> 00:06:33,180 You still did it in your head. 125 00:06:33,980 --> 00:06:39,980 So, yeah, there was a concern that, well, we would go crazy and just increase things by 42 percent. 126 00:06:39,980 --> 00:06:40,780 Just jacking way up. 127 00:06:40,780 --> 00:06:41,280 Yeah. 128 00:06:41,780 --> 00:06:45,880 And so they needed to act on that emergency basis with a special session. 129 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,380 So that one percent limitation was put back in place by the legislature. 130 00:06:49,380 --> 00:06:51,680 That would have been under the Gregoire administration. 131 00:06:51,980 --> 00:06:54,280 That was so long ago that I wasn't even in county government. 132 00:06:54,280 --> 00:06:57,380 And I've been in county government for nearly 20 years. 133 00:06:57,380 --> 00:07:00,180 I was still in private business then. 134 00:07:00,180 --> 00:07:01,780 That was a big change, right? 135 00:07:02,280 --> 00:07:04,380 From six percent to one percent. 136 00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:09,580 Now, that's not the only thing that we can increase property taxes by annually, though, right? 137 00:07:09,580 --> 00:07:15,380 There's also another factor called, isn't it called new construction that we also add to our property tax rolls? 138 00:07:15,380 --> 00:07:17,580 Yeah, I guess super confusing, I know. 139 00:07:17,580 --> 00:07:26,180 But when there's new construction, you apply the rate to that new construction in its first year. 140 00:07:26,180 --> 00:07:26,580 Okay. 141 00:07:26,580 --> 00:07:34,780 And so you get the benefit of the new construction and then it rolls into the overall assessed value for future calculations. 142 00:07:34,780 --> 00:07:42,880 Now, when we talk about one percent growth, is it one percent growth on the value of the property in a district? 143 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:48,780 So, for instance, say, you know, the assessor goes out and let's make it really simple. 144 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:54,180 They say that all of the property in Thurston County is worth, you know, combined a thousand dollars. 145 00:07:54,180 --> 00:08:04,180 Is it a one percent growth in that property valuation or is it a one percent growth rate annually in the amount of revenue that they collect? 146 00:08:04,180 --> 00:08:05,980 It's so confusing, but you're right. 147 00:08:05,980 --> 00:08:08,480 It's not on the growth of the assessed value. 148 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:10,380 It's not on an individual's tax bill. 149 00:08:10,380 --> 00:08:17,880 It's a one percent cap on the growth of the revenue that a city or a county or another special purpose district can collect. 150 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:18,780 So it's the entire. 151 00:08:18,780 --> 00:08:21,580 So if let's use that same example. 152 00:08:21,580 --> 00:08:26,180 I'm I've got a thousand dollars worth of property tax value in my district. 153 00:08:26,780 --> 00:08:31,780 Maybe there's a big project and it raises that tax value by 10 percent. 154 00:08:31,980 --> 00:08:35,680 So now I've got a thousand one hundred dollars in total tax value. 155 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:41,780 And if I tax that at, say, five percent, I'm going to get 50 bucks a year off of that. 156 00:08:41,780 --> 00:08:49,980 Right. Well, actually, I'm going to get fifty five bucks a year or so off of that eleven hundred dollars in total taxes. 157 00:08:49,980 --> 00:08:52,080 But that one percent gets applied to that. 158 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,780 It gets applied to the fifty five dollars, not the eleven hundred. 159 00:08:55,780 --> 00:09:04,780 Correct. And as an individual taxpayer, should I expect that my tax bill is only going to be limited to a growth rate of one percent every year? 160 00:09:04,780 --> 00:09:07,780 Or is that not part of this discussion? 161 00:09:07,780 --> 00:09:09,980 I know the individual tax bill. 162 00:09:09,980 --> 00:09:11,580 So many things go into that. 163 00:09:11,580 --> 00:09:13,080 What is your assessed value? 164 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:14,380 What's your neighbor's assessed value? 165 00:09:14,380 --> 00:09:15,280 How did that change? 166 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:22,680 What is what else got added to the assessor assessed roles, the assessed value in the whole jurisdiction? 167 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:25,480 So a lot goes into what an individual pays. 168 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:32,280 The one percent cap is just on the amount of revenue that the city or the county can collect. 169 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,480 OK, OK. Sounds super confusing. 170 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:44,680 It is. And I know people get really confused about it, which makes it really hard to kind of talk about changing property tax codes or property tax growth rates. 171 00:09:44,680 --> 00:09:47,080 And people kind of understanding what the impacts are. 172 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:57,680 Right. And I think that's why we run into some of these well resistance essentially, you know, about even kind of addressing these issues or even talking about them in the legislature, 173 00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:02,180 which is probably why the cities and the counties of board and working on this issue for 20 years. 174 00:10:02,180 --> 00:10:07,180 Yeah. You know, we've taken kind of a myth busting approach to some of our communications this year. 175 00:10:07,180 --> 00:10:16,080 One of the things that gets talked about and it's a myth is that going from a one percent cap to a three percent cap triples somebody's property taxes. 176 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,580 It does not because that's not how it's calculated. 177 00:10:18,580 --> 00:10:25,380 So if my property tax bill is one hundred dollars this year under one percent cap, it'd be one hundred and one dollars next year. 178 00:10:25,380 --> 00:10:32,980 Well, sure, because we just established it's limited to the one percent growth rate is limited to the amount that the jurisdiction can collect. 179 00:10:32,980 --> 00:10:39,680 Yeah. So if you went from one to from a one percent growth rate to a three percent growth rate, there's absolutely no possibility with triple. 180 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:42,280 Yeah, you're not going from one hundred dollars to three hundred dollars. 181 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:46,480 You're going from one hundred dollars to one hundred and three dollars versus one hundred and one dollars. 182 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,780 So it's a two dollar break. 183 00:10:48,780 --> 00:10:53,280 Okay. That's I think that's helpful context to put it in. 184 00:10:53,280 --> 00:11:02,380 Now, you talked a minute ago about the reason that cities and counties were interested in addressing this issue was to attack a structural deficit. 185 00:11:02,380 --> 00:11:04,080 Can you explain what you meant by that? 186 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:13,380 Yeah, we like to use that term because if you're one of your major sources of revenue and for cities, property tax makes up about 20, 187 00:11:13,380 --> 00:11:18,380 22 percent a quarter, say, of the typical revenue a city collects. 188 00:11:18,380 --> 00:11:19,680 And I know that's different for counties. 189 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:21,280 Yeah, for counties, it's about half. 190 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,380 Yeah, it's actually a little over 50 percent. 191 00:11:23,380 --> 00:11:25,080 It's our major source of revenue. 192 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,080 Yeah. And cities, as we've talked before, we've got a few more revenue tools. 193 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:31,980 So it's still a huge which we're super jealous of. 194 00:11:31,980 --> 00:11:34,580 I know. Can we borrow some of those revenue tools every day? 195 00:11:34,580 --> 00:11:40,080 Can we just borrow them for six months a year, like right around Christmas time and, you know, things like that? 196 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:41,680 Or maybe April and October. 197 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:45,480 How's that sound? Yeah, we'll talk about that more. 198 00:11:45,480 --> 00:11:49,480 You'll think about it. I have a feeling you're not going to think very hard about that. 199 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,980 Maybe not. I forgot the question now. 200 00:11:52,980 --> 00:11:55,180 That's a trick I play. All of the people that I interviewed. 201 00:11:55,180 --> 00:11:57,180 Structural deficit. I'm back. 202 00:11:57,180 --> 00:12:03,880 So if your revenues, though, and major sources of revenues are capped at one percent growth 203 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,780 and your expenses are not capped and are going up by at least inflation, 204 00:12:08,780 --> 00:12:12,880 but probably even higher than that because the things cities and counties buy 205 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:17,980 typically have a higher inflation rate than the typical household basket of goods. 206 00:12:17,980 --> 00:12:19,980 So you've got a structural deficit. 207 00:12:19,980 --> 00:12:21,480 Although eggs have been going crazy lately. 208 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:24,180 Well, that's true. Almost just like concrete. 209 00:12:24,180 --> 00:12:28,680 Yeah. Well, yeah, that's the kind of thing that you're talking about concrete asphalt, 210 00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:33,180 you know, great big equipment to do different projects and get work done. 211 00:12:33,180 --> 00:12:35,680 Healthcare benefits for our staff are. 212 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:38,080 And insurance has been going through the roof lately, too, right? 213 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,680 Double-digit increases year over year. 214 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:49,080 Yeah. So our basket of goods in the city and county government world are increasing significantly more than one percent. 215 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,780 So you do that for 20 plus years. You've got a structural deficit. 216 00:12:52,780 --> 00:12:58,180 You know, that's really interesting. And that is a really good description of the structural deficit. 217 00:12:58,180 --> 00:13:02,280 I mean, what you're basically saying is our expenses are just going up at higher rates 218 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:09,280 than we're able to keep up with as far as our revenue when you're especially for counties and for cities. 219 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,980 You said it was like 22 percent revenue for counties. 220 00:13:11,980 --> 00:13:16,580 It's more than 50 percent. If that if those are some of your biggest sources of revenue 221 00:13:16,580 --> 00:13:22,480 and you're limited in that growth rate to one percent, but your expenses are going up even even two percent 222 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:28,280 a year and we know it's been higher than that, especially recently with just pure inflation. 223 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:33,380 At some point, you're going to have a major crash because that revenue line versus your expense line, 224 00:13:33,380 --> 00:13:35,880 the gap is getting bigger and bigger and it's not in a good way. 225 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,780 Right. The expenses are growing much faster than the revenues. 226 00:13:38,780 --> 00:13:42,980 They are. And I think when I talk to our city officials, I'm always so impressed. 227 00:13:42,980 --> 00:13:46,280 And I'm guessing it's the same with your county elected folks. 228 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:50,380 They do an amazing job of band aiding over that structural deficit. 229 00:13:50,380 --> 00:13:51,380 And what choice do they have? 230 00:13:51,380 --> 00:13:55,680 They don't have any choice and they've made it work and they've been making it work for 20 years 231 00:13:55,680 --> 00:14:01,380 and they have been doing more with less, not keeping up, but somehow keeping it together. 232 00:14:01,380 --> 00:14:03,480 But that is it's frame. 233 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:04,680 It's coming apart. Right. 234 00:14:04,680 --> 00:14:09,980 There is this tipping point and it feels like we are really reaching that tipping point. 235 00:14:09,980 --> 00:14:12,280 Well, I'd like to dive into that because that's really interesting. 236 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,780 But, you know, you kind of said something that struck me. 237 00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:21,780 But before we get there, just a few statistical things that I did a little research on. 238 00:14:21,780 --> 00:14:29,680 Washington State as a state, when you compare tax burden to income, has been falling significantly, 239 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:35,080 actually, over the years, including since this particular initiative was passed 240 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,380 and then reinstated by the legislature. 241 00:14:38,380 --> 00:14:42,180 So as a state, you know, people complain about taxes, which I don't blame them. 242 00:14:42,180 --> 00:14:43,380 I complain about taxes, too. 243 00:14:43,380 --> 00:14:44,980 I don't blame them for paying taxes either. 244 00:14:44,980 --> 00:14:49,280 But the data shows, the math shows that as a percentage of personal income, 245 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,980 we actually have been decreasing year over year over year. 246 00:14:51,980 --> 00:14:54,180 We're like 31st in the nation. 247 00:14:54,180 --> 00:14:56,780 Oh, that's very interesting because that's not what you hear in the rhetoric. 248 00:14:56,780 --> 00:14:58,380 No, it certainly isn't. 249 00:14:58,380 --> 00:15:01,380 But in some ways, that's something to be proud of, too, right? 250 00:15:01,380 --> 00:15:07,880 I mean, the more personal income people have, the more they have the ability to make decisions with their money, 251 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:11,180 which is a little ironic that that's actually what's happening in, you know, 252 00:15:11,180 --> 00:15:15,980 a state that is as liberal and as blue as Washington State is. 253 00:15:15,980 --> 00:15:21,480 You would think that just kind of when you look at the hard definition of what these different, 254 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,880 you know, conservative versus liberal ideologies are, 255 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,980 you'd think we would have actually a higher tax burden in Washington. 256 00:15:26,980 --> 00:15:29,880 But it's but that's not the case, which is interesting. 257 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:35,780 Also, as we've done some research here with the counties and we've noticed that since initiative 747 258 00:15:35,780 --> 00:15:39,980 and then the reenactment by the legislature of the 1% limit has been in place, 259 00:15:39,980 --> 00:15:46,580 the rate at which people pay for their property taxes has also been falling precipitously year over year over year. 260 00:15:46,580 --> 00:15:51,780 Yeah, that rate is a part of that confusion, too, I think, over our tax system in this state 261 00:15:51,780 --> 00:15:56,780 or how the property tax works, because I always like to think of it as a teeter totter. 262 00:15:56,780 --> 00:16:04,780 If assessed value is going up, the rate is going down because you've got to keep that balance of the cap on growth of the revenue. 263 00:16:04,780 --> 00:16:12,780 Right. The property tax values are just going up at a much higher pace than the 1% growth keeps up with. 264 00:16:12,780 --> 00:16:15,980 And so every year that actually goes down. 265 00:16:15,980 --> 00:16:22,680 So people as a percentage of value not only are that is their personal income higher than it used to be 266 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:30,380 and what they retain in in tax burden is is better than it has been and it gets better every single year. 267 00:16:30,380 --> 00:16:35,980 But what they pay as a percentage of property value continues to drop every single year, 268 00:16:35,980 --> 00:16:44,080 even though we still are allowed to grow at a 1% rate, which again just shows you that what you're saying about the structural deficit is is correct. 269 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:52,180 So in that context, why shouldn't we just believe it when people say, well, Candace, that was the point, right? 270 00:16:52,180 --> 00:16:55,380 You said that cities have made it work. 271 00:16:55,380 --> 00:16:57,880 You I certainly said the same thing about counties. 272 00:16:57,880 --> 00:16:58,980 We've made it work. 273 00:16:58,980 --> 00:17:01,880 You know, how do you respond to well, exactly. 274 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,180 That's exactly what we wanted as taxpayers. 275 00:17:04,180 --> 00:17:05,780 That's exactly the point. 276 00:17:05,780 --> 00:17:09,980 And why should we do it any different now that you've proven that you can get the job done with less? 277 00:17:09,980 --> 00:17:11,380 You know, it's a good question. 278 00:17:11,380 --> 00:17:12,180 It's a valid question. 279 00:17:12,180 --> 00:17:19,580 But I think what we know and certainly what our city elected officials know is they don't have community members coming to them asking them to do less. 280 00:17:19,580 --> 00:17:22,080 They're being asked to do more. 281 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:28,680 You know, the the cost of maintaining streets is going up and that's just to maintain them, not even improve them. 282 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,780 Same with providing amenities like parks. 283 00:17:31,780 --> 00:17:37,280 And then I think both cities and counties are being asked to do more in the area of human services for sure. 284 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:42,380 And particularly counties, but but even more so cities than we ever have in the past. 285 00:17:42,380 --> 00:17:49,680 Right. And then affordable housing is also being more and more pushed to local governments to take responsibility there. 286 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:51,980 So we're doing different kinds of things. 287 00:17:51,980 --> 00:17:56,780 We're being asked by our community members to do different kinds of things, more of those kinds of things. 288 00:17:56,780 --> 00:18:02,180 And they're not able to keep it all together and patch it all together with the revenue that they've got. 289 00:18:02,180 --> 00:18:07,780 So the community keeps, you know, and rightfully so, they've got expectations about the level of service that they want. 290 00:18:07,780 --> 00:18:11,380 The thing that comes with that is having to find a way to pay for it. 291 00:18:11,380 --> 00:18:18,680 Well, with a growing population and more people located in the same area, your problems just get bigger exponentially, right? 292 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:26,280 They just flat do. You've got to have better transportation systems to manage heavier loads, which costs more money. 293 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,280 People want transit. That costs money to transit doesn't pay for itself. 294 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,180 I don't think in any instance we've ever seen transit pay for itself. 295 00:18:34,180 --> 00:18:39,780 You know, if you want a city pool or you want, you know, some like you said, nice parks, those things cost money. 296 00:18:39,780 --> 00:18:43,780 And for counties and for cities, you know, policing is not the same as it used to be. 297 00:18:43,780 --> 00:18:47,780 It's very different and a lot more cost a lot more costly than it ever was. 298 00:18:47,780 --> 00:18:51,780 And I think what's really interesting that a lot of people also don't think about is, you know, 299 00:18:51,780 --> 00:19:02,280 a lot of the infrastructure that we rely on today for government services and even for transportation was built in the 1930s, the 1940s, the 1950s. 300 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:06,580 And that stuff's wearing out. Yeah. I mean, you look at the state of bridges. Exactly. 301 00:19:06,580 --> 00:19:13,780 Across our state. It's not great. And those are really expensive things to upgrade, to fix, to replace. Right. 302 00:19:13,780 --> 00:19:19,980 And we're not doing a good job of always being able to maintain things because of that structural deficit. 303 00:19:19,980 --> 00:19:24,680 So then you've got to talk about replacement costs. Yeah. Cities and counties. 304 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,180 Well, I shouldn't speak for cities since you're here, but I'll try anyways. No, I'm just kidding. 305 00:19:28,180 --> 00:19:34,380 But I know counties have made a lot of cutbacks in maintenance over the years because that's what you have to do when you don't have the revenue. 306 00:19:34,380 --> 00:19:37,180 Yeah. The first thing you do is defer maintenance. Right. Right. 307 00:19:37,180 --> 00:19:43,180 Well, either or you try to do it more efficiently. And there have been tools that have been created to do things a lot more efficiently. 308 00:19:43,180 --> 00:19:50,380 I mean, just the advent of technology has made administrative work a lot easier and a lot faster. 309 00:19:50,380 --> 00:19:53,480 You know, communication with constituents a lot easier and a lot faster. 310 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:58,080 We're not we're not putting mail on the back of wagons or horses anymore. Right. 311 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:01,980 We could just zip it via email. So a lot of that has changed. 312 00:20:01,980 --> 00:20:05,980 But at the same time, we're just not keeping up with the costs. 313 00:20:05,980 --> 00:20:10,980 The pace is just a bit of it's almost kind of a breakneck speed in some ways. 314 00:20:10,980 --> 00:20:14,080 And that structural deficit just keeps getting worse and worse and worse. 315 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,580 How are things going with the legislature when when you're having this conversation? 316 00:20:18,580 --> 00:20:24,780 Yeah, I think it's it's going better than it has maybe, you know, 317 00:20:24,780 --> 00:20:29,980 even 10 years ago when we were trying to have this conversation and counties were really leading on that conversation. 318 00:20:29,980 --> 00:20:36,180 Then there's I believe a greater understanding of how that structural deficit is having this impact. 319 00:20:36,180 --> 00:20:44,680 And of course, the state has the same challenge. You know, they lifted the cap for themselves to respond to the McCleary decision. 320 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,080 Yeah, that was what six or seven years ago. Yeah. 321 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:50,880 Was it longer than that? I don't remember. I don't remember either. 322 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:53,780 It all blends together. Like it was definitely pre pandemic. 323 00:20:53,780 --> 00:20:58,480 It was pre pandemic. Yeah. So it was before 2019. 324 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,580 But so they you know, they had the McCleary decision. 325 00:21:00,580 --> 00:21:09,680 They had to find a way to fund education. And so they lifted that cap for the state's share of the property tax. 326 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,880 That cap is now back in place for the state. 327 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:17,380 And again, we're hearing about the struggles they have in funding basic education, something we all value. 328 00:21:17,380 --> 00:21:23,780 Well, not just basic education, but I mean, a 12 billion dollar deficit projected over the next budget cycle. Right. 329 00:21:23,780 --> 00:21:24,980 Yeah, it's significant. 330 00:21:24,980 --> 00:21:31,380 So I think it just points to the fact that this one percent cap was always going to create a problem for government, 331 00:21:31,380 --> 00:21:37,680 no matter whether or not it's, you know, the smallest city or this, you know, a big county or the state. 332 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,480 We've all got the same problem. And over the last year or two, 333 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:49,680 I feel like it's finally really resonating with the legislature and certain legislators in particular that we've got we've got to take some action. 334 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:56,280 I also think the messaging about trusting city elected officials, county elected officials to make good decisions. 335 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,280 So what we're asking is not to increase the property tax. 336 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:07,680 We're asking them to give cities and counties and other special purpose districts that local flexibility to do it if it's right for them. 337 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:15,980 Right. And trust those elected officials to be accountable to their citizens, their their residents to make those decisions. 338 00:22:15,980 --> 00:22:22,180 You know, it's interesting the points you just made when you think about how this could be affecting the state. 339 00:22:22,180 --> 00:22:27,280 It's never going to affect them at the same level that it's affecting cities, the people you work for. 340 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,980 It's never going to affect them at the same level that it affects counties, the folks that I work for. 341 00:22:31,980 --> 00:22:34,980 But it still is an important piece. And they're starting to feel that pressure. 342 00:22:34,980 --> 00:22:40,280 But it's only 10 percent of their revenue, 22 percent of yours, over 50 percent of ours. 343 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:43,980 Obviously, we have a little higher sense of urgency than they do. 344 00:22:43,980 --> 00:22:48,980 But it's interesting that they're starting to now feel the pinch so many years down the road. 345 00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:57,180 And hopefully that's that's, you know, hopefully that's driving them to listen a little bit more to some of the some of the cries for help, I guess, 346 00:22:57,180 --> 00:23:01,380 for lack of a better term, that they're hearing from some of their city and county partners. 347 00:23:01,380 --> 00:23:04,480 I had a conversation the other day with a legislator. 348 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,880 You talk about the trust issue and I was talking about this very issue with them. 349 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:18,280 And, you know, they just said, you know, look, we we just don't think, you know, you guys can be, you know, we we if we're going to give you this authority, 350 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:21,480 we want to tell you how to spend it. We want to make sure you're spending it right. 351 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:27,880 And I said, you know, I appreciate that X, Y, Z legislator, because I'm not going to use any any any names. 352 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:38,180 But, you know, you trust the counties to run the entire court system for the state of Washington and the cities and the counties. 353 00:23:38,180 --> 00:23:46,080 Basically, we implement and enforce every law that you pass locally and we do it pretty well. 354 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,280 I think we can figure this part out, don't you think? 355 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:56,180 And how did that go? Well, they gave me a strange look like they actually did give me a look like, huh, I don't think I ever thought of it that way before. 356 00:23:56,180 --> 00:24:06,180 Yeah, I was testifying yesterday on a different kind of local option bill and mention this accountability issue and and and used a line something like, 357 00:24:06,180 --> 00:24:16,580 you know, our our city elected officials are accountable to their residents at the ballot box and at the grocery store and in the church pew and on the soccer field and at the gym. 358 00:24:16,580 --> 00:24:24,080 Because trust me, I've been that elected official and I've been at the gym and they expect you to stop what you're doing and talk. 359 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,580 Absolutely. And so they're going to they're going to hear about it. 360 00:24:28,580 --> 00:24:40,380 And that is where we want the decision to be made at the local level where somebody can have direct input in to what their city council member, their county council members thinking. 361 00:24:40,380 --> 00:24:44,980 So, yeah, you can trust those elected officials to make these decisions. 362 00:24:44,980 --> 00:24:48,580 They're making pretty big and complicated decisions already on a regular basis. 363 00:24:48,580 --> 00:24:57,580 Yeah. You know, the other big issue or one of there's a lot of big issues this year, but another really big issue that's taken up a lot of air time in the legislature is public safety this year. 364 00:24:57,580 --> 00:24:59,880 Right. And it has been for a few years. 365 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:01,980 There's been a lot of controversial things over the years. 366 00:25:01,980 --> 00:25:04,180 Last year, we had the initiatives around police pursuits. 367 00:25:04,180 --> 00:25:11,080 Right. And other things and they've been talking about policing and, you know, both for juveniles and adults. 368 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:21,280 And we've been talking about, you know, all of that related to substance issues and behavioral health issues and homelessness issues because it's all encompassing. 369 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:34,980 And we've been talking about that for a while, but there does seem to be a real desire by the legislature this year, some of it being driven by Governor Ferguson's demand for one hundred million dollars for new law enforcement across the board. 370 00:25:34,980 --> 00:25:42,180 But I think other legislators are hearing it, too, that, you know, communities want more law enforcement. 371 00:25:42,180 --> 00:25:45,080 They want more investment in public safety. 372 00:25:45,080 --> 00:26:00,180 And I think it's ironic that we're talking about funding for local governments and whether or not the state will support funding improvements for local governments, because public safety is really what local governments do for the most part. 373 00:26:00,180 --> 00:26:03,480 Don't you agree? It is a big part of the city budget. 374 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,580 And I know it's a big part of counties budgets for cities. 375 00:26:06,580 --> 00:26:12,980 You know, on average, it's about 40 percent of our budget between public safety, criminal justice expenses. 376 00:26:12,980 --> 00:26:15,280 Yeah, for us, it's about 70 to 80 percent. 377 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:21,580 Yeah, with the district and Superior Court systems and public defenders and everything else that goes and the jails. 378 00:26:21,580 --> 00:26:35,180 It adds up. But I think legislators, particularly those who are campaigning this past campaign season and our city council members, your folks, they're hearing about their residents concern about public safety. 379 00:26:35,180 --> 00:26:45,980 And for cities, we identified that as a priority going into this legislative session that we needed more help from the state to fund public safety needs. 380 00:26:45,980 --> 00:27:00,480 And that's everything from new officers to more public defenders and prosecutors in jail, but also diversion programs and therapeutic courts and kind of and behavioral health corresponders. 381 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:06,280 So that public safety category has sort of a whole spectrum of things in it. 382 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:12,880 So we've been really hoping to see this the state, the legislature provide more support for public safety. 383 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:19,480 Well, yeah, I think the connection that needs to be made here is if they want to do that, right, it's going to be delivered at the local level. 384 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:23,880 And if you want more investment in public safety, it's going to come from cities and counties. 385 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:27,680 And so you need to provide cities and counties with more resources, period. 386 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:34,580 That's the only way it's going to happen unless the state suddenly is going to start paying for these things, which they traditionally haven't ever done. 387 00:27:34,580 --> 00:27:42,980 I mean, they do have their you know, they've got the state patrol and obviously they've got the state courts through the Court of Appeals and and and the Supreme Court. 388 00:27:42,980 --> 00:27:48,880 And they do provide funding for prosecutors and for judges at the county, at the county level, not at the city. 389 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,580 No, that's true. But they only provide for half of that funding. 390 00:27:51,580 --> 00:28:00,680 We have to pick up the other half. So but I guess my point is, is those services that they want and that their constituents are telling them they want are delivered by us. 391 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,380 And we can't do it unless we have more resources. 392 00:28:03,380 --> 00:28:10,280 Yeah, I think we're really asking the legislature this year to be a partner and invest more local tools are great. 393 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:14,280 But we'd also like to see some other direct investment. 394 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,180 What that ends up looking like. It's hard to say at this point. 395 00:28:17,180 --> 00:28:23,280 We've talked about the importance of ongoing sustainable funding and grants are great. 396 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:31,580 We all like grant funding, but particularly when you're investing in public safety and ongoing service with staff that you're hiring, 397 00:28:31,580 --> 00:28:38,480 whether that's a law enforcement officer, a public defender, you've got to know how you're going to pay for them, not just this year or next year, but three and four years from now. 398 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:46,180 Right. You need ongoing revenue, but it can't it can't be an ongoing static revenue because the expenses related to that personnel 399 00:28:46,180 --> 00:28:48,580 and providing that service are always going to go up. 400 00:28:48,580 --> 00:28:54,280 You know, it's interesting that that, you know, we've got a law in place in Washington that, you know, 401 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,480 keeps property taxes at the local level at one percent a year. 402 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:06,780 Right. For a growth rate. If I had a job where I was only getting a one percent per year growth rate in my salary, I'd go probably find a new job. 403 00:29:06,780 --> 00:29:14,180 Yeah. You know, it's one of the talking points that I've used with the legislature is police officer salaries have gone up about 20 percent in the last five years. 404 00:29:14,180 --> 00:29:16,280 I was going to say just in the last couple of years. Yeah. 405 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:23,080 And I mean, we've got to pay those first responders what it takes to keep them on the street. 406 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:29,480 So not begrudging them that. But that's the reality is that cost has been going up and it's been going up pretty significantly. 407 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:38,980 Absolutely. And every other represented group that works for city and county, you know, city and county governments, they know what their what their personal income costs. 408 00:29:38,980 --> 00:29:43,580 They know what the price of eggs are, you know, is doing. They know what the price of gasoline is doing. 409 00:29:43,580 --> 00:29:46,280 They know what the economy is doing and what the inflation rates are. 410 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:49,080 And when they come to the bargaining table, that's the data they use. 411 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:52,280 They don't say, oh, city, county, we understand your revenue. 412 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:53,480 You're capped at one percent. 413 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,180 Capped at one percent. Right. 414 00:29:55,180 --> 00:29:57,280 No, they say, look, this is what we deserve. 415 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:02,680 This is what we need to survive. This is what we need to just maintain a level or grow a little bit. 416 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,580 And you can't begrudge them for doing that. 417 00:30:05,580 --> 00:30:07,980 But at the same time, what do we get the resources to keep up? 418 00:30:07,980 --> 00:30:16,980 Yeah. So this has been great and we're not going to do this all day because, you know, people get bored when they talk about taxes. 419 00:30:16,980 --> 00:30:22,980 Who wants to talk about taxes all day? Besides you and me, of course, we could probably do this for a few more hours. 420 00:30:22,980 --> 00:30:27,980 But let's bottom line this, because I know you've done some research on this and you shared it with legislators. 421 00:30:27,980 --> 00:30:35,780 If we went from a one percent property tax increase to a three percent property tax increase on an annual basis, what does that mean to the average homeowner? 422 00:30:35,780 --> 00:30:38,680 You know, we did this math for just cities. 423 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,080 So I want to make sure that there's no confusion there. 424 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,680 It's just like the city share of a property tax for the average homeowner. 425 00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:51,280 It's it's about less than twenty dollars a year difference. 426 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,780 You know, obviously lots of caveats there. You add it onto your house. 427 00:30:54,780 --> 00:30:56,780 Maybe that's not the case. 428 00:30:56,780 --> 00:31:00,980 If you're in an area where the average home price is a million dollars. 429 00:31:00,980 --> 00:31:02,780 Right. Maybe it's a little bit different. 430 00:31:02,780 --> 00:31:06,980 But again, it's in that kind of scale of twenty dollars a year. 431 00:31:06,980 --> 00:31:09,980 So it's it's not a tripling. 432 00:31:09,980 --> 00:31:13,380 It actually may not be as dramatic an increase as it sounds like. 433 00:31:13,380 --> 00:31:18,880 So we did the same research recently and we looked at both the county road fund and the county general fund. 434 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:27,880 So for folks who may not know the two besides the state schools, which is the largest portion, individual portion of property taxes that you pay, 435 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:33,980 you either pay into the county road fund and general fund if you're in an unincorporated area or you pay into the city's 436 00:31:33,980 --> 00:31:40,680 basically general fund and the county general fund if you're in an incorporated area, meaning you're inside of a city. 437 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,480 So we just looked at the general fund and the road fund for counties. 438 00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:49,380 So for unincorporated residents and we found similar results, it was in one of our counties, 439 00:31:49,380 --> 00:31:57,780 it was barely over ten dollars is what someone would pay combined for both of those funds up to a maximum of thirty 440 00:31:57,780 --> 00:32:01,480 eight dollars in King County, the single largest and most expensive county in Washington. 441 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,480 Right. So it was anywhere between ten dollars and thirty eight dollars. 442 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,380 And many of them were right in that and right under twenty dollars annually. 443 00:32:10,380 --> 00:32:14,880 That would be this difference right from a one percent to a three percent. 444 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:23,080 So it's nowhere near the tripling that sometimes you hear in the rhetoric when people are opposed to making a change like this. 445 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,880 Yeah. And I understand we were joking about this a little bit earlier. 446 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,580 People don't want to don't like to pay taxes. I don't want to pay taxes. 447 00:32:29,580 --> 00:32:32,780 No. And it's I hate taxes. 448 00:32:32,780 --> 00:32:38,880 It's true. We just are talking about, you know, paying a fair share to get the services that everybody wants. 449 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,580 And I think we're really empathetic to folks that are struggling. 450 00:32:42,580 --> 00:32:45,380 Price of eggs keeps coming up. 451 00:32:45,380 --> 00:32:48,180 Have you seen the price? I'm telling you. 452 00:32:48,180 --> 00:32:50,580 So I have to quick little story. 453 00:32:50,580 --> 00:32:54,280 I went to the grocery store and I don't buy eggs very often. 454 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,780 I will be I will freely admit my wife buys most of the eggs at our house. 455 00:32:58,780 --> 00:33:05,580 But I had gone to Ellensburg for the weekend and I decided to stop at the store and get some eggs. 456 00:33:05,580 --> 00:33:14,080 And I was shocked when I went to the cooler and I saw a dozen eggs at seven ninety nine. 457 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:21,680 And I almost I almost put them back. I thought I am not I don't make enough money to pay seven ninety nine for a dozen eggs. 458 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:24,780 We're I we're definitely having less eggs in my house as well. 459 00:33:24,780 --> 00:33:29,580 But I asked for an armed escort because it was dark outside after I bought the eggs. 460 00:33:29,580 --> 00:33:34,980 I thought these are so valuable. You must have some big burly guy who's going to escort me to my car. 461 00:33:34,980 --> 00:33:45,380 But I think, you know, we are empathetic and so are the county council members and city council members making these decisions about the impacts on the taxpayers. 462 00:33:45,380 --> 00:33:49,480 So they're going to take that into account when they're making these decisions. 463 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,680 We're just asking for the ability to let them make the decision. 464 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,180 Yeah, I'm with you. I think that's the right thing to do. 465 00:33:56,180 --> 00:33:59,180 They're the ones who have to answer to their constituents. 466 00:33:59,180 --> 00:34:05,080 And like we said, literally for these local elected officials, it's in the line at the grocery store with those eggs. 467 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,480 Yeah, with those eggs. It's in the church pew. 468 00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,480 It's on the soccer field. It's in the gym. 469 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:13,580 It's, you know, it's on the sidewalk as you're walking down the street. 470 00:34:13,580 --> 00:34:18,580 People know who you are and they're you know, if they have a strong opinion on it, they're going to definitely let you know. 471 00:34:18,580 --> 00:34:20,780 I don't want to pay taxes either. I hate taxes. 472 00:34:20,780 --> 00:34:26,280 I hate taxes. April 15th is like the worst day of the year for me. 473 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,880 But I do want emergency responders to come if I need them. 474 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,180 Right. I do want safe roads. 475 00:34:33,180 --> 00:34:37,380 I don't want the bridge to fall when I'm crossing the river. 476 00:34:37,380 --> 00:34:41,180 Right. I want to make sure that my kids have good schools. 477 00:34:41,180 --> 00:34:45,880 Okay, my kids are out of school, but I wanted them to make I wanted to make sure they had good schools. 478 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:50,680 And I certainly want my grandkids whenever they get here to have good schools as well. 479 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:58,180 So, I mean, I get it. I mean, I totally empathize with people, but you can't have one without, you know, some reasonableness on the other. 480 00:34:58,180 --> 00:35:04,080 This isn't going to get easier. No, the longer you wait to make these changes that deficit is going to be harder. 481 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,180 Yeah. Yeah. Well, Candace, it's been great talking to you. 482 00:35:07,180 --> 00:35:14,580 It's probably a good place to end it before we geek out too much and nerd out too much on property taxes or eggs. 483 00:35:14,580 --> 00:35:16,880 Yeah. 484 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,780 Paul, thanks for having me. It's been really nice to be on the County's podcast. 485 00:35:20,780 --> 00:35:24,480 Well, yeah, I hope you'll come back. And when you do, maybe I'll make you some eggs. 486 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:26,580 You know, maybe it'll be a luxury meal at that point. 487 00:35:26,580 --> 00:35:29,280 I hate pretty fancy. 488 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:32,680 All right. Take care till then. 489 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,780 Thanks for tuning in to County Connection. 490 00:35:34,780 --> 00:35:41,580 Stay in the loop by subscribing to us through your preferred podcasting app and following us on LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram. 491 00:35:41,580 --> 00:35:47,580 And don't forget to join the hub, your go to source for the latest news and updates from the Washington State Association of Counties. 492 00:35:47,580 --> 00:36:15,580 Until next time, stay connected and stay informed.