Bird feeder feeds rats too. It does not. It does. It does not. When you're not looking.
It's a good thing you're here. Really glad you're here. I'm really glad to be here too.
I have a feeling that you're lying. I'm just saying. Would I lie to you?
Welcome to County Connection, the official podcast of the Washington State Association of Counties,
where we dive into the legislative issues shaping the future of our communities.
From budgets to public safety, infrastructure to elections, we'll break down what's happening in
Olympia and how it impacts counties from across the Evergreen State. Stay informed, stay engaged,
and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39 counties.
Welcome back, everybody, to episode number three of the County Connection podcast.
I'm Paul Jewell, the government relations director with the Washington State Association of Counties.
We're here back at our studio in downtown Olympia on a bright, shining, but very cold day.
We've got Jamie Botton with us again, the Washington State Association of Local Public Health
Officials Managing Director. Man, is that a mouthful. It's good to see you again, Jamie.
Thanks, Paul. Good to be here.
Well, we're, what, week five and a half about in the legislative session.
You've been here a couple of times. We've got a couple of interesting topics I know on tap for
today. What'd you bring us to talk about? I brought you regulations. Woohoo!
Regulations? Okay. All right. Not just regulations, but woohoo regulations.
But woohoo regulations. Okay.
Yeah. I'm excited. The fun, exciting part of public health where we tell people what they can
and can't do. I feel like when you say the fun, exciting part of public health where you, I feel
like you're, I feel like maybe there's a hint of sarcasm there. Just a hint. Just a little bit.
Just a little sprinkling. Okay. All right. Good. I'm glad I'm
picking up what you're laying down. I hope the people at home that are listening to this are as
well. So what kind of relationships, oh my goodness. Wow. What kind of regulations,
regulations kind of build relationships one way or the other, I guess. So they are related, but
what kind of regulations are we going to talk about today?
Yeah. We're going to talk about two kind of different sides of the coin around regulations,
one around water recreation and one around home kitchens.
So that's not really the sides of a coin that I've ever heard before. You said water recreation
and home kitchens. That's two sides to the two very different issues, two sides to the same coin,
two very different approaches of how we want to or feel about regulations in these spaces.
Okay. I'm not sure I'm buying the analogy yet. Yeah. Maybe coin was the wrong analogy.
That's okay. Let's, let's power on. Let's march through this and see if we can get somewhere.
So which one do you want to start with? Let's talk water recreation. That's a fun one.
What's up with it? What's up with it? So water recreation is one area where public health
often has a role because we want to make sure that the people, the waters like pools, hot tubs,
other facilities that the public patrons are safe and healthy. So if you think, if you've ever gone
to like lifeguard safe or safe life, like life, lifeguard safe, safe, like fencing safe, like
chlorine and other things. So, you know, it's safe. Like it's safe to actually get in the water,
safe, safe, actually to get into the water safe, to protect, you know, people who can't swim from
accidentally falling in, like, you know, little kids, all of that are, you know, public health
regulations that are, are designed in mind to keep those spaces safe and healthy. Okay. And right now
public health has varying degrees of regulations around that. Some of that authority might actually
be with planners. If you think about pool, like construction and well, sure. That's right. Yeah.
If you're going to build a pool, you have to get a permit and the permit will, I believe the permit
in Washington requires a fence around a pool so that, you know, kids and other people can't
actually get in there and unfortunately, you know, have some sort of a tragic accident. Yeah. So
that's a public health intervention, but outside of, you know, the authority of a local health
jurisdiction. So local public health, who might implement a water recreation program, they're
really focused on things like is the, is the pool or hot tub chlorinated correctly to kill
microorganisms that might be growing in the water? Is there a filtration? Is there correct signage?
Is there things like the little life floats that you throw in? You throw it out there. And yeah,
I think, you know, there's like, uh, uh, public pools require lifts for people with disabilities
and stuff. So if I were to see someone using like those test strips or maybe pulling a vial of water
and that, that, that could be a public health inspector. That could be a public health inspector.
Um, you know, testing the waters of a public pool, making sure everything's safe or in the appropriate
levels, um, to operate. So I'm a little afraid to ask, but I'm going to ask it anyways, because I
know you want to say it. I know you want to tell us why. What are those microorganisms and where do
they come from? Yeah. What's the danger if the public pool isn't to the proper, first of all,
can you, number one, if the water's not clean, you know, obviously that's an issue.
As much as I really don't want you to tell us what we can get out of it, you're going to tell us. I
know. So I'm going to let you, but also if you could, can you over come, you know, uh, over
chlorinate over chemical pool? And if so, what's the risk associated with that? Yeah. So I'll go
with the easier question first. Can you over chlorinate? Oh, okay. I thought you were going
to go with the other one first. I'm glad it's after lunch. I'll bet it is number two. Yeah.
That's funny, Jamie. Nice, nice play on words there. Oh my goodness. So can you over chlorinate?
I feel like we're going to have to put a warning rating on this podcast at the very beginning.
Watch out. We're talking public health today. Yeah. Go ahead.
Want, want public health. Uh, so can you over chlorinate? Yes, you can over chlorinate. And
that's something that, um, health risk wise, it's a lot of irritation chlorine has like on your skin,
on your eye, you know, your nose and your eyes. Like if you're breathing in heavy fumes, you
write like you get eyes, you get really irritated. You might, if you have some respiratory things,
you might have difficulty breathing that kind of thing. So yes, it's possible. The re you know,
the health risks of that are often, you know, immediate and you can kind of tell when something's
over chlorinated, right? When you're using too much cleaning project, it's one of those things where
it's so is that, but that doesn't sound like that's the biggest risk. That's not the biggest risk.
The biggest risk would be under chlorinating. Okay. And that allows for bacteria and other
microorganisms to grow most commonly because where they're coming from is from being peter pooped in
the pool. Oh, I knew you were going to say that. Yeah. And you know, just the, you know, you're
swimming around and you want to make sure that those microorganisms are killed and dead because
if they don't, and you come in contact with them, you can get sick with a variety of other things.
Yeah. That's why I don't swim in public pools very often. Good stuff. Okay. So what does this,
so you have a bill that talks about water recreation. What is it?
There's a bill. I don't want to say that we have a bill. There's a bill that we misspoke. Thank you.
Correct. That were impacted by. So one of the things that's great about living in and where and
when we live in is that innovation is a thing. And it's really exciting. And contrary to, I think,
popular opinion, public health actually really likes innovation and likes to support innovation.
But we like to do so safely and making sure things are safe. So, you know, there's a lot of new
models of doing business and economic opportunity that rent out pools or other facilities and private
spaces. Well, wait a minute. Private spaces. Are you talking about people at their house?
People's homes. They rent out their pool. They rent out their pool. Or if you think of like
Airbnb's and VBR, VBROs, you might rent a house that has a hot tub or a pool. Okay. Or there's
new models where you're just renting the pool space. Okay. And those right now are completely
unregulated. So there's no protections around chlorine. There's no protections around filtration.
There is absolutely the protections around fencing and those kinds of things, because that's part of
that whole permitting process. But there's no other safety mechanisms in place around kind of
the hygiene situation of one of those facilities. Okay. So if I'm renting a VRBO, it may or may not
be, or probably isn't. What you're telling me, it's not regulated at all. It would not be regulated
if it's a private single, you know, single family house. You know, if it's an apartment complex that
has a lot of people in there, that's considered, you know, semi-public, that is most likely regulated
through a water recreation program. There's a whole set of different definitions for that.
I'm talking specifically about, I have a vacation house. I want to rent it out, or I want to run out
the pool that's, you know, behind my vacation house to the public. Those are unregulated right now.
Okay. And so the question is, do we regulate them? Do we not? If I am someone from the public and I
am purchasing, you know, the weekend and renting the space, I want to make sure that space is clean,
that space is hygienic, that space is, you know, operating to the standard in which it was advertised.
And, you know, I have a certain level of expectation. Sure you do. Same thing that you do when you go to
a food, a restaurant, right? You're expecting a certain level of cleanliness and hygiene with
a restaurant because you're purchasing that food. Right, right. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really
good analogy. If I've rented a VRBO and it has a pool, I don't care who was there before. I want
that pool to be clean. I want that house to be clean. I think I have an expectation and probably
rightfully so. Same thing with a restaurant, right? If you walk in to sit down at a booth at,
you know, your local pizza joint, you don't care, you know, if it was a family of 12 there before
that made a giant mess. When you sit down, you want it to be clean. You want to make sure that
whatever you're going to eat and the surfaces and utensils you're going to eat with are going to be
safe. Anything you use there, you want it to be safe. So I think that's probably a pretty good
comparison. Yeah. The difference is that a restaurant is a public space and a VBR is a private space.
Right. That you're renting, but it's this weird kind of uncharted area around regulation. And so
with these new models, you have to weigh the pros and cons to do you regulate or do you not regulate?
And, you know, that's kind of what this bill this year is kind of proposing of, you know,
do we go full regulation where, oh, it has to be inspected and permitted and you, you know,
have to get it approved and you have to meet all of these certain, you know, standards and safety
standards, or is it completely unregulated or is it something in between? So what does the bill
actually propose? So the bill is proposing that with some slight regulations legalizing kind of
these spaces to be rented right now, they operate as VBRO or Airbnb. You're renting a house and the
pool is included. That's legal. But if you're renting just the pool, there currently isn't
anything that operates legally in our state. And so this is a pathway to being able to operate
legally. Okay. But they're not necessarily operating illegally, are they? Are they there? Is
there a state law that says you can't rent out your pool? It's a really gray area. Okay. Yeah. So
it's kind of in the middle. Yeah. And so right now, yeah, we would say right now, no, there,
there, there is nothing that allows them to operate legally because they're completely
unregulated. Okay. But there's nothing that also says you shall not rent out your private pool.
Explicitly no. Okay. So it's, so it really is a gray area. This would really relieve that gray
area and make it very clear that you can rent out your pool under a certain set of circumstances if
you do certain things. Under certain, certain set of circumstances. Okay. So the bill proposes
what those certain circumstances are. Okay. And we're supportive of certain concepts within the
bill, such as, you know, having access to a restroom facility. So that seems like it would
be important, right? Like we just talked about earlier about chlorination. Yeah. Good idea.
Restrooms are a good idea. Restroom and having restroom access is really important. Now, what
that looks like, instead of spelling that out into statute, we often say that should be a rule
where it outlines certain provisions of what that could be for a facility or for a house or for,
you know, what restroom access is. Is it a porta potty with hand washing? Is it a, you know,
a adjacent bathroom? Is it, you know, being able to enter the home and access the restroom? All of
that could be addressed in real making, but we don't think it's unreasonable to say, hey, you
know, if you're going to rent out a pool, you need to be able to have access to some sort of
restroom facility. Very reasonable. Very reasonable. Another,
request that we think is again reasonable is having signage in some way around safe swimming.
So that could be, you know, in a welcome booklet that you often see at an Airbnb or VBR, it says,
you know, welcome to our home and here are some things to do, or here's some directions for the
house. And here's a, you know, here's a page around swimming safely because we have a pool in the
back. Don't drink and swim, for instance. Don't drink and swim. Don't dive in the shallow end of
the pool. If you have children under a certain age, make sure they're supervised. Right. You know,
whether that's in a booklet or that's posted somewhere near the pool, you know, not unreasonable
to say, Hey, that's important to just to have as a good reminder and good safety and education for
people to have. And then the third one is if, if there is something, an issue with the facility or
the pool, let's say you rent it and it is really dirty or, you know, there's trash lying around or
you're like, Oh, it doesn't seem like it's filtering correctly or whatever. You know, here's a
number to be able to call to make the complaint or Hey, you know, we rented the pool and now we're,
you know, now we're sick and we're not quite sure what it is. We think it might have been, you know,
because of the pool. Here's a number to make a complaint so that, you know, we can make a
complaint so that that can be followed up on from public health. So following along the same analogy
or comparison that you made with restaurants, even though these aren't necessarily public public
spaces, but under the bill, would you actually be sending staff out to inspect these facilities?
No. And that's, I think a really important distinction is restaurants. We would consider
restaurants very heavily regulated, right? There's a whole permitting process before the restaurant
opens and multiple inspections, even surprise inspection before the restaurant even opens,
because we want to make sure that the layout, the, um, the layout of the kitchen is correct or, um,
the refrigeration is correct. Um, that all happens, you know, before the restaurant even opens.
And then even when the restaurant does open, there's regular inspections where we want to make
sure the food is being in prepared hand and stored correctly. So very, very heavily regulated.
It's not what we're in support of with water recreation. We're saying here's some very light
regulation needs and requirements. It's quite passive. Um, but it's not unreasonable to say
these things should exist. And there's that number. If they, you know, if they don't exist,
we have a number, it's a complaint where we would then do some sort of follow up.
So that is pretty light handed then you're just basically saying, here's the things on the books,
here's what you need to do. But no one's going to come and actually physically enter the premises and,
you know, uh, give you a score sheet like you would for another inspection or anything like that. So
a lot easier for the homeowner, um, or the landowner in this particular case to actually comply.
Uh, and they don't have to wait for someone to make an appointment with public health or
anything like that. They can just go ahead and get it done. Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and we see it as
being a little proactive in some of the potential issues that might come up if, right? Like if, if
there isn't a restroom space, let's say in a pool and something happens and an issue happens at the
pool, you know, there's going to be complaints and that homeowner is going to get those complaints
and they'll get bad reviews. They might get kicked off of a platform. Um, so this is a way to be
proactively, you know, protective of that and make sure that, you know, that if they're going to be
part of a business model and economic model, we want them to be successful. Okay. Well, that's,
that's great stuff. Um, sounds like you've maybe got that dialed into what you think is a, is a
good proposal. Um, this is all contained in a bill. This is contained in a bill. Yes. What's that bill
number? The bill number is 1684. And so is, is Wasolfo then supporting this particular bill?
Yeah, we are. Um, we're supporting of the concept. Um, it's not necessarily our bill. It's a department
of health endorsed bill. They're asking for it, um, because they oversee, you know, the water
recreation program, local health jurisdictions may elect to take that on, on behalf of department of
health, not all do, but several of them do. And so that's why we're involved in supportive of the
concept. Um, and we know that, you know, we have a lot of communities that have a lot of Airbnb's
and VRBOs and vacation houses. So it's one where we want our, our visitors to, you know, be able to
enjoy, you know, enjoy our communities safely. Okay. So transitioning now to the other item or
the other side of the coin that you brought up earlier, which was a home kitchens or commercial
home kitchens or something like that, which is funny that we use a restaurant analogy when we
were talking about the pools, cause that's probably even more appropriate here. Why don't you kind of
give us the rundown of what commercial home kitchens is or what you're talking about? Yeah,
they're, they're really referred to as micro enterprise home kitchens. And so, um, yeah,
so food safety in general is a really kind of tried and true public health field. You know,
we, it's one where, um, the science is there, the science is very clear. We have certain mechanisms
in place because we know that certain things prevent foodborne outbreaks. Um, right. Like keeping
hot food, hot, even cold food, cold temperature controls, how you handle food. Um, you know,
not storing chicken above, you know, lettuce and other raw chicken above us and other things,
right? Avoiding cross contamination. Exactly. Washing your hands. I have been the victim
of a foodborne illness, uh, on at least one occasion that was documented. And I can tell you
it was very unpleasant. It was very unpleasant for a very long period of time. Yes. Yes. Foodborne,
you know, we kind of, you know, foodborne is really, really common foodborne illnesses.
You know, you have norovirus, which is people like to say, Oh, it's the stomach flu. That's
a norovirus. That's often a foodborne illness. We have things like Shigella, which is incredibly,
um, contagious and can spread really quickly. Very, very uncomfortable, very, very, um, you know,
immediate. Um, and then we have other things like salmonella, E. coli, hepatitis a things that, um,
can be quite serious, um, and can cause some serious health issues. Um, you know, in the,
you know, acute acutely, but also very long-term too. So food, food safety is really, really
important for public health is the big point. Um, and that's why restaurants and food trucks and
things like that are so heavily regulated because, um, that exposure to the, to, to the potential of
disease is there and we want to do everything we can to prove, to protect the public and assure
the public that what they're patronize, uh, patroning is safe and healthy. Yeah. It makes
good sense. So how does, how do micro enterprise home kitchens kind of fit into that whole
regulatory framework or whatever you want to. So the concept of micro enterprise home kitchens
is to allow essentially what you can cook in a restaurant to be able to be cooked and sold in
your home. So using your home personal kitchen, um, to prepare and then sell food to the public.
Uh, so that's the micro enterprise piece of it. So this is a way for people to kind of get into
the food industry or the food service industry from a food preparation kind of point of view,
right? Without necessarily opening a restaurant, but using their own kitchen at home. That's what's
being proposed here. Yeah. So, I mean, opening a restaurant is a huge endeavor, right? Like the
cost and the capital. Very expensive and risky is risky and it's huge. And so, um, you know, you
gotta have capital to be able to, to operate a restaurant and own, you know, an open a restaurant,
you know, from the ground up, you know, you're, you're building out a kitchen, you're developing
menus, you're, you know, building out the, the, the space where people are going to sit. It's a
huge, it's a, it's a huge endeavor. And so micro enterprise opportunities provide a lot of entryway.
It's low cost, um, into, you know, larger economic opportunities. You know, micro enterprise is, is a
larger concept just beyond food. It's, you can do micro enterprise for a lot of different services.
Um, specifically for home kitchens, it is about food entrepreneurship and, and finding pathways to
economic, um, economic gains, you know, with, with low investment in capital into the project.
So there are some of these businesses already out there though, right? I mean, I, I'll go to, uh,
uh, maybe a farmer's market or a craft fair or something like that. And I'll find baked goods
or I'll find, um, uh, I want to say like pickled, but what I really mean is canned goods. Uh,
oftentimes it's pickles, which I love. Uh, I think you're, you're a bit of a pickle fan too,
if I'm not mistaken. I think we both relish the opportunity to enjoy a pickle. I deserve that.
I deserve that. Yeah. Uh, don't sour on, oh boy. Okay. I'm going to use a different,
I'm going to, I think what you're referring to, perhaps there's a vegetable that's being
canned in a home kitchen and it says from Susie's kitchen or something like that. Um, but I, but I
see, but, uh, you know, there's one thing when it's at say a bake sale or something like that, but
there's a, it's a whole other thing when it's at a farmer's market and it's obviously a commercial
enterprise. I've got branding material, right? Even, you know, we'll take orders, they'll do
custom pieces, things like that, but they're very small, right? These are small farmers that are
maybe growing enough of the vegetables that they can do their own canning and, and, and then, you
know, take it to the market or they've got a small operation where they're making, you know, the baked
goods, the cookies, the breads, the pies, whatever it may be. Is that what we're talking about here?
Are we talking about something different? We're talking about something different. So,
okay. So what you're probably seeing and experiencing in farmers markets are what's
called cottage foods. So these are, um, it's a, it's a whole separate lot. It's actually implemented
and, um, and overseen by the department of agriculture in our state. And it is low risk
food. So low risk being low risk of foodborne outbreaks or, or the risk of diseases is minimal.
Um, and it's so worth, you know, breads, granolas, um, jellies and jams and, you know, the canned,
the canned goods that you're talking about, um, those are all part of a cottage food industry.
And there's a whole separate law that allows a certain amount of that product to be made
at home, at a person's home. Okay. Um, again, low risk. Um, so it's packaged, it can be preserved,
has shelf life, those kinds of those are considered lower risk. Those are considered lower risk. So if
you think of the grocery store, what you can buy on a grocery store shelf is a lot lower risk for
an outbreak versus something that you're going to buy in a deli. Okay. That makes sense. And so what
Micro Enterprise Home Kitchens is proposing is more of the ready to eat food. So something that
what you might order at a restaurant or you might order as a takeout or at a grocery store in the
deli to take home with you. Okay. So this is basically, it sounds like it's just a, a takeout
place that's someone's home kitchen itself. Is that, is that what we're talking about? So kind of
like a made to order service where I could call ahead or maybe send a text or an email
and then go and pick it up and they're actually making it in their home kitchen. Yeah. Instead of
calling or ordering what, what the proposed legislation is, is you would go through a website
or an app, think like DoorDash or Uber, but for Micro Enterprise Home Kitchens. And you would order,
oh, you know, Jamie is, is selling tonight. She is doing burgers and fries and something else.
And you can order, I want two meals or I want a meal. And you'd show up to my house. I have a feeling if you were making those
burgers, there'd be pickles on them. I'm just saying. A hundred percent there would be pickles on them.
Okay. Glad we agree on that. Probably pickles and pickled onions, multiple pickles,
you know, or maybe different topics. I feel like we're getting off on another topic, but I have to
tell you, you know, what I really like on a burger is a pickled jalapeno. Okay. They're good. Have you
had them? I have. I'm not a spicy person. Yeah. They're not as spicy as you'd think though, because a lot
of that comes out in the brine itself. But they're really good on it. I like a pickled, like a pickled
red onion. The pickled red onion. Yeah. So I used to do those. I feel like we're way off topic here,
but I used to do those in my pickles, but it would turn the whole jar pink and I'm not into pink
pickles. In fact, just the words pink pickles together is disturbing. If you ask me. I mean,
I think, I think you should just broaden your horizons. Maybe. All right. Let's get back to
these micro enterprise kitchens and what was it? Jamie's burgers and Jamie's burgers. So I'm selling
that tonight. Maybe tomorrow I would make lasagna. Maybe the next day, probably no pickles. Maybe the
next night I would do fried rice and something else. So you'd advertise what you're selling.
People could select with how many meals they'd want and then, oh, I'm open six to eight, come by
anytime, pick it up. So it sounds like people are doing this now. I mean, the description that you're
giving doesn't sound like it's kind of hypothetical. And I think I've heard of some of this happening.
And I know I've seen flyers from time to time where somebody does advertise one that used to
happen a lot where I come from. I live in central Washington. Tamales big, right? A homemade,
fresh tamale. Oh my goodness. You ever had homemade fresh tamale? Oh, they're amazing.
And you could order ahead and they would deliver 20, two dozen, three dozen, whatever you want.
And we would actually buy them from time to time. That sounds kind of like what you're describing
here. Yeah. So we know they're going on and we know they're happening. But they're not regulated.
But they're not regulated. And so the question then becomes, do you regulate them? And if you
think of all of the different kitchens that exist in a community, we have very well-designed,
very well thought out big kitchens that have big countertop space, probably industrial grade
refrigerators, ovens. Then we have my kitchen that's in a 1930s cottage that has been updated,
but it's not anything special. Well, and there's a lot of rules.
And then there's, yeah. And then you have apartment units that have multiple housing units in a
facility with shared infrastructure and piping. So the question is, how do you regulate such
diversity equally? Well, when I was saying rules, I was referring to the commercial kitchens. I mean,
there's a lot of rules about water temperature, about those hot holding temperatures, how long
they have to be held, how long they can be held, what has to happen with them afterwards. There's
rules about where you can put cleaners versus where you put spices, where you can clean your
vegetables versus where you clean your dishes. All those sorts of rules that I'm sure most of us
don't pay much attention to in our home kitchens, at least certainly not to the same kind of rigor
and level. One question that I have for you that we talked about a little bit with the pools,
you mentioned that people were renting their pools separately, but they were doing so outside
of the law, kind of is what you're saying. In that because they weren't regulated, they weren't
really doing it within the way you're supposed to, but at the same time, there's no law that says you
can't do that. Is that the same thing with micro enterprise home kitchens? Are they kind of also in
that gray area or are they actually really violating the law? I think it's not so much
is it a gray area. I think it's the expectation of somebody purchasing something and expecting
a certain level of liability coverage. And with our current food code, that's in violation of
current food code. Okay. So technically are they illegal? Yeah. So is there anything that explicitly
says in the law, like these are illegal activities? No. But I think it's more of because they're not
listed as legal activities, they are illegal. So what is this bill then? How does it handle these?
So what the bill proposes is legalizing these and authorizing them. But it also removes a lot of the
things that we would look for in an inspection or part of that rulemaking that you talked about of
temperature controls, handling this, you know, where things are located in a kitchen, hand washing
facilities, you know, water quality standards and other things where all of that gets really heavily
regulated and inspected in a food establishment. So it removes a lot of that to the point where
from a public health perspective, we think that, you know, food safety is compromised. And, you know,
it puts us in a really difficult spot of do we permit something knowing that that level of food
safety is not at the same level that we make other facilities uphold. So this bill proposes to legalize
the activity but pulls back most of the things that you would do if it were a regular restaurant
to the point where you're actually concerned that it compromises food safety. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So
you guys are not in support of this bill? No, no, it's one of those. It's one where we get the
intent and we're like, yeah, we want to find pathways for people to enter food entrepreneurship
and food industry because, you know, we like to eat out as much as, you know, as much as the next
person. And we love to have successful businesses in our communities because it brings economic
vitality and brings stability. Just like we like to see restaurants be really successful. It's a
lot easier to have a restaurant be in business year after year after year than, you know, a
restaurant, a new restaurant year after year after year, you have to permit and inspect and
for a lot of reasons, not just the public health side of things, but economic wise.
Um, so we want to, we want to support those opportunities where this proposal just gives
us a lot of discomfort around that because we're essentially saying we're okay with serving food
that is unsafe or we're okay with, Hey, this, you know, this type of model can have this level of
food safety. But if you're this type of model, you, you have to have this type of food safety
or this level of food safety. And that doesn't feel right either. Uh, you know, food safety is
food safety and everybody, and everybody who's purchasing food should be entitled to the same
level of protections and, and liabilities. How do restaurant owners feel about this? I mean,
I would think that they would be maybe concerned with the competition, uh, and the fact that
there's a lower standard, uh, for some of their competitors and, and, uh, really think that there's
some imbalance there. I mean, I, we obviously don't advocate for restaurants at any level,
you know, we're here for counties, but it seems like they would be also a pretty important voice
in, you know, this issue from, uh, well, I guess just a competitive imbalance kind of point of
view. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we've, you know, this bill was heard on this week. Um, and, and
that was, you know, some of the, the testimony that we heard was, you know, our members struggled to,
to operate just like, you know, any, you know, anyone, and they uphold these standards and it's
important for them. And if anybody else is going to enter the food, you know, the food industry,
they should be held to the same standards. Uh, you know, several years ago, we had similar
conversation around food trucks and when food truck, you know, the food truck scene was,
was coming on board and it was seen very innovative at the time. Right. And, um, we had
similar conversations of like, how do we make food trucks safe? Um, you know, they don't have
access to the same storage that a restaurant does. They don't have access to the same hand washing
or other facilities that a restaurant does. So how do we, how do we make them safe? And
we found pathways to navigate to, to that assurance. And, um, so it's something that
we're definitely interested in having conversation about. Um, but it's a lot easier to modify a food
truck than it is to modify. Well, it's a constant space too. Yeah. Um, and you know, thinking of,
oh, I want to permit my kitchen that I have now, you know, you're not probably planning on a massive
remodel and renovation to ticket your kitchen up to, up to, you know, a standard. Um, you want to
be able to work with the space that you have to be as low cost as possible. So that's the challenge
of this bill is we absolutely love the idea of innovation and pathways to food entrepreneurship,
but this model is just one of those where it's like, oh, this is just a really hard one to be
okay with some of the compromising around food safety. Why do the proponents think that it's
okay or why are they asking for kind of these reduced regulations compared to restaurants?
I think it's, it's that desire to legitimize operations that are already going and already
happening that we know that we know exist. Sure. You can understand that. Oh, absolutely. It's a
low barrier. It's low cost. Um, and so, you know, there, it is, you know, that is a really solid
argument of if I'm interested in, you know, doing something that's incredibly part-time, but I don't
have to leave my home and I don't have to think about, um, rent or childcare or other things.
And I have, you know, my community that's very interested and it's already around my house,
you know, it's a really enticing, you know, enticing avenue. And I think that's a big argument
that proponents have of this. And we definitely see that and, and, and don't disagree with that
at all. Yeah. Tough issue. Tough issue. What's the bill number? That bill number is 5605. Okay.
So we've talked about two today, 1684, which had to do with water recreation. You guys are in favor
of that bill. Uh, and then the last one we just talked about 5605, that's the micro enterprise
home kitchens. And at this point you are not supporting the bill, have many concerns around
food safety issues. Well, thanks Jamie, uh, for bringing that information today. I think it was
super interesting. I know I learned a lot. I'm sure our listeners learned a lot. Maybe you learned a
lot about, you know, what we should put pickles on and what we shouldn't, or maybe you taught me a
few things about that. I don't know. I'm so excited to bring you more pink pickles. Like there's beets,
there's red onions. Okay. Beets are fine, but just regular pickles, like cucumber pickles should not
be pink. I think we could agree on that. I mean, we should have a lot of red onions to turn up a
cucumber pink. I like red onions. I think we need to do a separate podcast on your apprehension to
culinary delights. I just think we should do a red onion, a dilling red onion intervention or
something. So maybe something like that. Well, Jamie, we'll see you soon. Okay. All right. Take care of all.
All right. You too. Thanks for tuning in to County Connection. Stay in the loop by subscribing to
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