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Bird feeder feeds rats too. It does not. It does. It does not. When you're not looking.

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It's a good thing you're here. Really glad you're here. I'm really glad to be here too.

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I have a feeling that you're lying. I'm just saying. Would I lie to you?

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Welcome to County Connection, the official podcast of the Washington State Association of Counties,

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where we dive into the legislative issues shaping the future of our communities.

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From budgets to public safety, infrastructure to elections, we'll break down what's happening in

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Olympia and how it impacts counties from across the Evergreen State. Stay informed, stay engaged,

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and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39 counties.

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Welcome back, everybody, to episode number three of the County Connection podcast.

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I'm Paul Jewell, the government relations director with the Washington State Association of Counties.

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We're here back at our studio in downtown Olympia on a bright, shining, but very cold day.

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We've got Jamie Botton with us again, the Washington State Association of Local Public Health

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Officials Managing Director. Man, is that a mouthful. It's good to see you again, Jamie.

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Thanks, Paul. Good to be here.

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Well, we're, what, week five and a half about in the legislative session.

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You've been here a couple of times. We've got a couple of interesting topics I know on tap for

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today. What'd you bring us to talk about? I brought you regulations. Woohoo!

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Regulations? Okay. All right. Not just regulations, but woohoo regulations.

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But woohoo regulations. Okay.

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Yeah. I'm excited. The fun, exciting part of public health where we tell people what they can

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and can't do. I feel like when you say the fun, exciting part of public health where you, I feel

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like you're, I feel like maybe there's a hint of sarcasm there. Just a hint. Just a little bit.

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Just a little sprinkling. Okay. All right. Good. I'm glad I'm

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picking up what you're laying down. I hope the people at home that are listening to this are as

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well. So what kind of relationships, oh my goodness. Wow. What kind of regulations,

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regulations kind of build relationships one way or the other, I guess. So they are related, but

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what kind of regulations are we going to talk about today?

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Yeah. We're going to talk about two kind of different sides of the coin around regulations,

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one around water recreation and one around home kitchens.

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So that's not really the sides of a coin that I've ever heard before. You said water recreation

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and home kitchens. That's two sides to the two very different issues, two sides to the same coin,

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two very different approaches of how we want to or feel about regulations in these spaces.

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Okay. I'm not sure I'm buying the analogy yet. Yeah. Maybe coin was the wrong analogy.

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That's okay. Let's, let's power on. Let's march through this and see if we can get somewhere.

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So which one do you want to start with? Let's talk water recreation. That's a fun one.

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What's up with it? What's up with it? So water recreation is one area where public health

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often has a role because we want to make sure that the people, the waters like pools, hot tubs,

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other facilities that the public patrons are safe and healthy. So if you think, if you've ever gone

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to like lifeguard safe or safe life, like life, lifeguard safe, safe, like fencing safe, like

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chlorine and other things. So, you know, it's safe. Like it's safe to actually get in the water,

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safe, safe, actually to get into the water safe, to protect, you know, people who can't swim from

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accidentally falling in, like, you know, little kids, all of that are, you know, public health

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regulations that are, are designed in mind to keep those spaces safe and healthy. Okay. And right now

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public health has varying degrees of regulations around that. Some of that authority might actually

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be with planners. If you think about pool, like construction and well, sure. That's right. Yeah.

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If you're going to build a pool, you have to get a permit and the permit will, I believe the permit

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in Washington requires a fence around a pool so that, you know, kids and other people can't

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actually get in there and unfortunately, you know, have some sort of a tragic accident. Yeah. So

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that's a public health intervention, but outside of, you know, the authority of a local health

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jurisdiction. So local public health, who might implement a water recreation program, they're

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really focused on things like is the, is the pool or hot tub chlorinated correctly to kill

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microorganisms that might be growing in the water? Is there a filtration? Is there correct signage?

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Is there things like the little life floats that you throw in? You throw it out there. And yeah,

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I think, you know, there's like, uh, uh, public pools require lifts for people with disabilities

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and stuff. So if I were to see someone using like those test strips or maybe pulling a vial of water

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and that, that, that could be a public health inspector. That could be a public health inspector.

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Um, you know, testing the waters of a public pool, making sure everything's safe or in the appropriate

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levels, um, to operate. So I'm a little afraid to ask, but I'm going to ask it anyways, because I

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know you want to say it. I know you want to tell us why. What are those microorganisms and where do

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they come from? Yeah. What's the danger if the public pool isn't to the proper, first of all,

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can you, number one, if the water's not clean, you know, obviously that's an issue.

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As much as I really don't want you to tell us what we can get out of it, you're going to tell us. I

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know. So I'm going to let you, but also if you could, can you over come, you know, uh, over

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chlorinate over chemical pool? And if so, what's the risk associated with that? Yeah. So I'll go

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with the easier question first. Can you over chlorinate? Oh, okay. I thought you were going

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to go with the other one first. I'm glad it's after lunch. I'll bet it is number two. Yeah.

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That's funny, Jamie. Nice, nice play on words there. Oh my goodness. So can you over chlorinate?

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I feel like we're going to have to put a warning rating on this podcast at the very beginning.

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Watch out. We're talking public health today. Yeah. Go ahead.

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Want, want public health. Uh, so can you over chlorinate? Yes, you can over chlorinate. And

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that's something that, um, health risk wise, it's a lot of irritation chlorine has like on your skin,

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on your eye, you know, your nose and your eyes. Like if you're breathing in heavy fumes, you

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write like you get eyes, you get really irritated. You might, if you have some respiratory things,

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you might have difficulty breathing that kind of thing. So yes, it's possible. The re you know,

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the health risks of that are often, you know, immediate and you can kind of tell when something's

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over chlorinated, right? When you're using too much cleaning project, it's one of those things where

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it's so is that, but that doesn't sound like that's the biggest risk. That's not the biggest risk.

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The biggest risk would be under chlorinating. Okay. And that allows for bacteria and other

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microorganisms to grow most commonly because where they're coming from is from being peter pooped in

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the pool. Oh, I knew you were going to say that. Yeah. And you know, just the, you know, you're

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swimming around and you want to make sure that those microorganisms are killed and dead because

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if they don't, and you come in contact with them, you can get sick with a variety of other things.

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Yeah. That's why I don't swim in public pools very often. Good stuff. Okay. So what does this,

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so you have a bill that talks about water recreation. What is it?

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There's a bill. I don't want to say that we have a bill. There's a bill that we misspoke. Thank you.

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Correct. That were impacted by. So one of the things that's great about living in and where and

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when we live in is that innovation is a thing. And it's really exciting. And contrary to, I think,

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popular opinion, public health actually really likes innovation and likes to support innovation.

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But we like to do so safely and making sure things are safe. So, you know, there's a lot of new

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models of doing business and economic opportunity that rent out pools or other facilities and private

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spaces. Well, wait a minute. Private spaces. Are you talking about people at their house?

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People's homes. They rent out their pool. They rent out their pool. Or if you think of like

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Airbnb's and VBR, VBROs, you might rent a house that has a hot tub or a pool. Okay. Or there's

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new models where you're just renting the pool space. Okay. And those right now are completely

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unregulated. So there's no protections around chlorine. There's no protections around filtration.

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There is absolutely the protections around fencing and those kinds of things, because that's part of

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that whole permitting process. But there's no other safety mechanisms in place around kind of

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the hygiene situation of one of those facilities. Okay. So if I'm renting a VRBO, it may or may not

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be, or probably isn't. What you're telling me, it's not regulated at all. It would not be regulated

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if it's a private single, you know, single family house. You know, if it's an apartment complex that

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has a lot of people in there, that's considered, you know, semi-public, that is most likely regulated

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through a water recreation program. There's a whole set of different definitions for that.

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I'm talking specifically about, I have a vacation house. I want to rent it out, or I want to run out

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the pool that's, you know, behind my vacation house to the public. Those are unregulated right now.

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Okay. And so the question is, do we regulate them? Do we not? If I am someone from the public and I

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am purchasing, you know, the weekend and renting the space, I want to make sure that space is clean,

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that space is hygienic, that space is, you know, operating to the standard in which it was advertised.

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And, you know, I have a certain level of expectation. Sure you do. Same thing that you do when you go to

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a food, a restaurant, right? You're expecting a certain level of cleanliness and hygiene with

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a restaurant because you're purchasing that food. Right, right. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a really

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good analogy. If I've rented a VRBO and it has a pool, I don't care who was there before. I want

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that pool to be clean. I want that house to be clean. I think I have an expectation and probably

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rightfully so. Same thing with a restaurant, right? If you walk in to sit down at a booth at,

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you know, your local pizza joint, you don't care, you know, if it was a family of 12 there before

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that made a giant mess. When you sit down, you want it to be clean. You want to make sure that

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whatever you're going to eat and the surfaces and utensils you're going to eat with are going to be

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safe. Anything you use there, you want it to be safe. So I think that's probably a pretty good

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comparison. Yeah. The difference is that a restaurant is a public space and a VBR is a private space.

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Right. That you're renting, but it's this weird kind of uncharted area around regulation. And so

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with these new models, you have to weigh the pros and cons to do you regulate or do you not regulate?

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And, you know, that's kind of what this bill this year is kind of proposing of, you know,

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do we go full regulation where, oh, it has to be inspected and permitted and you, you know,

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have to get it approved and you have to meet all of these certain, you know, standards and safety

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standards, or is it completely unregulated or is it something in between? So what does the bill

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actually propose? So the bill is proposing that with some slight regulations legalizing kind of

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these spaces to be rented right now, they operate as VBRO or Airbnb. You're renting a house and the

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pool is included. That's legal. But if you're renting just the pool, there currently isn't

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anything that operates legally in our state. And so this is a pathway to being able to operate

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legally. Okay. But they're not necessarily operating illegally, are they? Are they there? Is

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there a state law that says you can't rent out your pool? It's a really gray area. Okay. Yeah. So

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it's kind of in the middle. Yeah. And so right now, yeah, we would say right now, no, there,

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there, there is nothing that allows them to operate legally because they're completely

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unregulated. Okay. But there's nothing that also says you shall not rent out your private pool.

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Explicitly no. Okay. So it's, so it really is a gray area. This would really relieve that gray

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area and make it very clear that you can rent out your pool under a certain set of circumstances if

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you do certain things. Under certain, certain set of circumstances. Okay. So the bill proposes

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what those certain circumstances are. Okay. And we're supportive of certain concepts within the

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bill, such as, you know, having access to a restroom facility. So that seems like it would

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be important, right? Like we just talked about earlier about chlorination. Yeah. Good idea.

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Restrooms are a good idea. Restroom and having restroom access is really important. Now, what

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that looks like, instead of spelling that out into statute, we often say that should be a rule

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where it outlines certain provisions of what that could be for a facility or for a house or for,

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you know, what restroom access is. Is it a porta potty with hand washing? Is it a, you know,

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a adjacent bathroom? Is it, you know, being able to enter the home and access the restroom? All of

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that could be addressed in real making, but we don't think it's unreasonable to say, hey, you

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know, if you're going to rent out a pool, you need to be able to have access to some sort of

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restroom facility. Very reasonable. Very reasonable. Another,

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request that we think is again reasonable is having signage in some way around safe swimming.

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So that could be, you know, in a welcome booklet that you often see at an Airbnb or VBR, it says,

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you know, welcome to our home and here are some things to do, or here's some directions for the

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house. And here's a, you know, here's a page around swimming safely because we have a pool in the

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back. Don't drink and swim, for instance. Don't drink and swim. Don't dive in the shallow end of

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the pool. If you have children under a certain age, make sure they're supervised. Right. You know,

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whether that's in a booklet or that's posted somewhere near the pool, you know, not unreasonable

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to say, Hey, that's important to just to have as a good reminder and good safety and education for

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people to have. And then the third one is if, if there is something, an issue with the facility or

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the pool, let's say you rent it and it is really dirty or, you know, there's trash lying around or

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you're like, Oh, it doesn't seem like it's filtering correctly or whatever. You know, here's a

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number to be able to call to make the complaint or Hey, you know, we rented the pool and now we're,

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you know, now we're sick and we're not quite sure what it is. We think it might have been, you know,

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because of the pool. Here's a number to make a complaint so that, you know, we can make a

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complaint so that that can be followed up on from public health. So following along the same analogy

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or comparison that you made with restaurants, even though these aren't necessarily public public

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spaces, but under the bill, would you actually be sending staff out to inspect these facilities?

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No. And that's, I think a really important distinction is restaurants. We would consider

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restaurants very heavily regulated, right? There's a whole permitting process before the restaurant

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opens and multiple inspections, even surprise inspection before the restaurant even opens,

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because we want to make sure that the layout, the, um, the layout of the kitchen is correct or, um,

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the refrigeration is correct. Um, that all happens, you know, before the restaurant even opens.

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And then even when the restaurant does open, there's regular inspections where we want to make

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sure the food is being in prepared hand and stored correctly. So very, very heavily regulated.

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It's not what we're in support of with water recreation. We're saying here's some very light

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regulation needs and requirements. It's quite passive. Um, but it's not unreasonable to say

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these things should exist. And there's that number. If they, you know, if they don't exist,

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we have a number, it's a complaint where we would then do some sort of follow up.

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So that is pretty light handed then you're just basically saying, here's the things on the books,

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here's what you need to do. But no one's going to come and actually physically enter the premises and,

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you know, uh, give you a score sheet like you would for another inspection or anything like that. So

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a lot easier for the homeowner, um, or the landowner in this particular case to actually comply.

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Uh, and they don't have to wait for someone to make an appointment with public health or

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anything like that. They can just go ahead and get it done. Yeah, absolutely. And, and, and we see it as

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being a little proactive in some of the potential issues that might come up if, right? Like if, if

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there isn't a restroom space, let's say in a pool and something happens and an issue happens at the

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pool, you know, there's going to be complaints and that homeowner is going to get those complaints

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and they'll get bad reviews. They might get kicked off of a platform. Um, so this is a way to be

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proactively, you know, protective of that and make sure that, you know, that if they're going to be

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part of a business model and economic model, we want them to be successful. Okay. Well, that's,

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that's great stuff. Um, sounds like you've maybe got that dialed into what you think is a, is a

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good proposal. Um, this is all contained in a bill. This is contained in a bill. Yes. What's that bill

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number? The bill number is 1684. And so is, is Wasolfo then supporting this particular bill?

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Yeah, we are. Um, we're supporting of the concept. Um, it's not necessarily our bill. It's a department

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of health endorsed bill. They're asking for it, um, because they oversee, you know, the water

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recreation program, local health jurisdictions may elect to take that on, on behalf of department of

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health, not all do, but several of them do. And so that's why we're involved in supportive of the

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concept. Um, and we know that, you know, we have a lot of communities that have a lot of Airbnb's

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and VRBOs and vacation houses. So it's one where we want our, our visitors to, you know, be able to

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enjoy, you know, enjoy our communities safely. Okay. So transitioning now to the other item or

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the other side of the coin that you brought up earlier, which was a home kitchens or commercial

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home kitchens or something like that, which is funny that we use a restaurant analogy when we

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were talking about the pools, cause that's probably even more appropriate here. Why don't you kind of

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give us the rundown of what commercial home kitchens is or what you're talking about? Yeah,

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they're, they're really referred to as micro enterprise home kitchens. And so, um, yeah,

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so food safety in general is a really kind of tried and true public health field. You know,

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we, it's one where, um, the science is there, the science is very clear. We have certain mechanisms

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in place because we know that certain things prevent foodborne outbreaks. Um, right. Like keeping

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hot food, hot, even cold food, cold temperature controls, how you handle food. Um, you know,

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not storing chicken above, you know, lettuce and other raw chicken above us and other things,

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right? Avoiding cross contamination. Exactly. Washing your hands. I have been the victim

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of a foodborne illness, uh, on at least one occasion that was documented. And I can tell you

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it was very unpleasant. It was very unpleasant for a very long period of time. Yes. Yes. Foodborne,

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you know, we kind of, you know, foodborne is really, really common foodborne illnesses.

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You know, you have norovirus, which is people like to say, Oh, it's the stomach flu. That's

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a norovirus. That's often a foodborne illness. We have things like Shigella, which is incredibly,

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um, contagious and can spread really quickly. Very, very uncomfortable, very, very, um, you know,

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immediate. Um, and then we have other things like salmonella, E. coli, hepatitis a things that, um,

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can be quite serious, um, and can cause some serious health issues. Um, you know, in the,

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you know, acute acutely, but also very long-term too. So food, food safety is really, really

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important for public health is the big point. Um, and that's why restaurants and food trucks and

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things like that are so heavily regulated because, um, that exposure to the, to, to the potential of

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disease is there and we want to do everything we can to prove, to protect the public and assure

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the public that what they're patronize, uh, patroning is safe and healthy. Yeah. It makes

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good sense. So how does, how do micro enterprise home kitchens kind of fit into that whole

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regulatory framework or whatever you want to. So the concept of micro enterprise home kitchens

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is to allow essentially what you can cook in a restaurant to be able to be cooked and sold in

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your home. So using your home personal kitchen, um, to prepare and then sell food to the public.

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Uh, so that's the micro enterprise piece of it. So this is a way for people to kind of get into

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the food industry or the food service industry from a food preparation kind of point of view,

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right? Without necessarily opening a restaurant, but using their own kitchen at home. That's what's

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being proposed here. Yeah. So, I mean, opening a restaurant is a huge endeavor, right? Like the

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cost and the capital. Very expensive and risky is risky and it's huge. And so, um, you know, you

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gotta have capital to be able to, to operate a restaurant and own, you know, an open a restaurant,

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you know, from the ground up, you know, you're, you're building out a kitchen, you're developing

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menus, you're, you know, building out the, the, the space where people are going to sit. It's a

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huge, it's a, it's a huge endeavor. And so micro enterprise opportunities provide a lot of entryway.

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It's low cost, um, into, you know, larger economic opportunities. You know, micro enterprise is, is a

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larger concept just beyond food. It's, you can do micro enterprise for a lot of different services.

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Um, specifically for home kitchens, it is about food entrepreneurship and, and finding pathways to

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economic, um, economic gains, you know, with, with low investment in capital into the project.

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So there are some of these businesses already out there though, right? I mean, I, I'll go to, uh,

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uh, maybe a farmer's market or a craft fair or something like that. And I'll find baked goods

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or I'll find, um, uh, I want to say like pickled, but what I really mean is canned goods. Uh,

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oftentimes it's pickles, which I love. Uh, I think you're, you're a bit of a pickle fan too,

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if I'm not mistaken. I think we both relish the opportunity to enjoy a pickle. I deserve that.

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I deserve that. Yeah. Uh, don't sour on, oh boy. Okay. I'm going to use a different,

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I'm going to, I think what you're referring to, perhaps there's a vegetable that's being

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canned in a home kitchen and it says from Susie's kitchen or something like that. Um, but I, but I

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see, but, uh, you know, there's one thing when it's at say a bake sale or something like that, but

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there's a, it's a whole other thing when it's at a farmer's market and it's obviously a commercial

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enterprise. I've got branding material, right? Even, you know, we'll take orders, they'll do

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custom pieces, things like that, but they're very small, right? These are small farmers that are

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maybe growing enough of the vegetables that they can do their own canning and, and, and then, you

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know, take it to the market or they've got a small operation where they're making, you know, the baked

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goods, the cookies, the breads, the pies, whatever it may be. Is that what we're talking about here?

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Are we talking about something different? We're talking about something different. So,

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okay. So what you're probably seeing and experiencing in farmers markets are what's

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called cottage foods. So these are, um, it's a, it's a whole separate lot. It's actually implemented

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and, um, and overseen by the department of agriculture in our state. And it is low risk

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food. So low risk being low risk of foodborne outbreaks or, or the risk of diseases is minimal.

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Um, and it's so worth, you know, breads, granolas, um, jellies and jams and, you know, the canned,

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the canned goods that you're talking about, um, those are all part of a cottage food industry.

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And there's a whole separate law that allows a certain amount of that product to be made

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at home, at a person's home. Okay. Um, again, low risk. Um, so it's packaged, it can be preserved,

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has shelf life, those kinds of those are considered lower risk. Those are considered lower risk. So if

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you think of the grocery store, what you can buy on a grocery store shelf is a lot lower risk for

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an outbreak versus something that you're going to buy in a deli. Okay. That makes sense. And so what

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Micro Enterprise Home Kitchens is proposing is more of the ready to eat food. So something that

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what you might order at a restaurant or you might order as a takeout or at a grocery store in the

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deli to take home with you. Okay. So this is basically, it sounds like it's just a, a takeout

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place that's someone's home kitchen itself. Is that, is that what we're talking about? So kind of

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like a made to order service where I could call ahead or maybe send a text or an email

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and then go and pick it up and they're actually making it in their home kitchen. Yeah. Instead of

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calling or ordering what, what the proposed legislation is, is you would go through a website

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or an app, think like DoorDash or Uber, but for Micro Enterprise Home Kitchens. And you would order,

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oh, you know, Jamie is, is selling tonight. She is doing burgers and fries and something else.

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And you can order, I want two meals or I want a meal. And you'd show up to my house. I have a feeling if you were making those

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burgers, there'd be pickles on them. I'm just saying. A hundred percent there would be pickles on them.

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Okay. Glad we agree on that. Probably pickles and pickled onions, multiple pickles,

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you know, or maybe different topics. I feel like we're getting off on another topic, but I have to

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tell you, you know, what I really like on a burger is a pickled jalapeno. Okay. They're good. Have you

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had them? I have. I'm not a spicy person. Yeah. They're not as spicy as you'd think though, because a lot

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of that comes out in the brine itself. But they're really good on it. I like a pickled, like a pickled

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red onion. The pickled red onion. Yeah. So I used to do those. I feel like we're way off topic here,

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but I used to do those in my pickles, but it would turn the whole jar pink and I'm not into pink

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pickles. In fact, just the words pink pickles together is disturbing. If you ask me. I mean,

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I think, I think you should just broaden your horizons. Maybe. All right. Let's get back to

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these micro enterprise kitchens and what was it? Jamie's burgers and Jamie's burgers. So I'm selling

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that tonight. Maybe tomorrow I would make lasagna. Maybe the next day, probably no pickles. Maybe the

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next night I would do fried rice and something else. So you'd advertise what you're selling.

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People could select with how many meals they'd want and then, oh, I'm open six to eight, come by

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anytime, pick it up. So it sounds like people are doing this now. I mean, the description that you're

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giving doesn't sound like it's kind of hypothetical. And I think I've heard of some of this happening.

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And I know I've seen flyers from time to time where somebody does advertise one that used to

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happen a lot where I come from. I live in central Washington. Tamales big, right? A homemade,

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fresh tamale. Oh my goodness. You ever had homemade fresh tamale? Oh, they're amazing.

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And you could order ahead and they would deliver 20, two dozen, three dozen, whatever you want.

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And we would actually buy them from time to time. That sounds kind of like what you're describing

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here. Yeah. So we know they're going on and we know they're happening. But they're not regulated.

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But they're not regulated. And so the question then becomes, do you regulate them? And if you

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think of all of the different kitchens that exist in a community, we have very well-designed,

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very well thought out big kitchens that have big countertop space, probably industrial grade

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refrigerators, ovens. Then we have my kitchen that's in a 1930s cottage that has been updated,

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but it's not anything special. Well, and there's a lot of rules.

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And then there's, yeah. And then you have apartment units that have multiple housing units in a

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facility with shared infrastructure and piping. So the question is, how do you regulate such

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diversity equally? Well, when I was saying rules, I was referring to the commercial kitchens. I mean,

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there's a lot of rules about water temperature, about those hot holding temperatures, how long

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they have to be held, how long they can be held, what has to happen with them afterwards. There's

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rules about where you can put cleaners versus where you put spices, where you can clean your

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vegetables versus where you clean your dishes. All those sorts of rules that I'm sure most of us

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don't pay much attention to in our home kitchens, at least certainly not to the same kind of rigor

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and level. One question that I have for you that we talked about a little bit with the pools,

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you mentioned that people were renting their pools separately, but they were doing so outside

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of the law, kind of is what you're saying. In that because they weren't regulated, they weren't

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really doing it within the way you're supposed to, but at the same time, there's no law that says you

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can't do that. Is that the same thing with micro enterprise home kitchens? Are they kind of also in

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that gray area or are they actually really violating the law? I think it's not so much

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is it a gray area. I think it's the expectation of somebody purchasing something and expecting

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a certain level of liability coverage. And with our current food code, that's in violation of

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current food code. Okay. So technically are they illegal? Yeah. So is there anything that explicitly

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says in the law, like these are illegal activities? No. But I think it's more of because they're not

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listed as legal activities, they are illegal. So what is this bill then? How does it handle these?

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So what the bill proposes is legalizing these and authorizing them. But it also removes a lot of the

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things that we would look for in an inspection or part of that rulemaking that you talked about of

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temperature controls, handling this, you know, where things are located in a kitchen, hand washing

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facilities, you know, water quality standards and other things where all of that gets really heavily

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regulated and inspected in a food establishment. So it removes a lot of that to the point where

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from a public health perspective, we think that, you know, food safety is compromised. And, you know,

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it puts us in a really difficult spot of do we permit something knowing that that level of food

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safety is not at the same level that we make other facilities uphold. So this bill proposes to legalize

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the activity but pulls back most of the things that you would do if it were a regular restaurant

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to the point where you're actually concerned that it compromises food safety. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So

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you guys are not in support of this bill? No, no, it's one of those. It's one where we get the

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intent and we're like, yeah, we want to find pathways for people to enter food entrepreneurship

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and food industry because, you know, we like to eat out as much as, you know, as much as the next

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person. And we love to have successful businesses in our communities because it brings economic

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vitality and brings stability. Just like we like to see restaurants be really successful. It's a

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lot easier to have a restaurant be in business year after year after year than, you know, a

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restaurant, a new restaurant year after year after year, you have to permit and inspect and

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for a lot of reasons, not just the public health side of things, but economic wise.

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Um, so we want to, we want to support those opportunities where this proposal just gives

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us a lot of discomfort around that because we're essentially saying we're okay with serving food

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that is unsafe or we're okay with, Hey, this, you know, this type of model can have this level of

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food safety. But if you're this type of model, you, you have to have this type of food safety

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or this level of food safety. And that doesn't feel right either. Uh, you know, food safety is

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food safety and everybody, and everybody who's purchasing food should be entitled to the same

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level of protections and, and liabilities. How do restaurant owners feel about this? I mean,

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I would think that they would be maybe concerned with the competition, uh, and the fact that

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there's a lower standard, uh, for some of their competitors and, and, uh, really think that there's

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some imbalance there. I mean, I, we obviously don't advocate for restaurants at any level,

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you know, we're here for counties, but it seems like they would be also a pretty important voice

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in, you know, this issue from, uh, well, I guess just a competitive imbalance kind of point of

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view. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we've, you know, this bill was heard on this week. Um, and, and

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that was, you know, some of the, the testimony that we heard was, you know, our members struggled to,

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to operate just like, you know, any, you know, anyone, and they uphold these standards and it's

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important for them. And if anybody else is going to enter the food, you know, the food industry,

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they should be held to the same standards. Uh, you know, several years ago, we had similar

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conversation around food trucks and when food truck, you know, the food truck scene was,

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was coming on board and it was seen very innovative at the time. Right. And, um, we had

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similar conversations of like, how do we make food trucks safe? Um, you know, they don't have

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access to the same storage that a restaurant does. They don't have access to the same hand washing

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or other facilities that a restaurant does. So how do we, how do we make them safe? And

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we found pathways to navigate to, to that assurance. And, um, so it's something that

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we're definitely interested in having conversation about. Um, but it's a lot easier to modify a food

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truck than it is to modify. Well, it's a constant space too. Yeah. Um, and you know, thinking of,

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oh, I want to permit my kitchen that I have now, you know, you're not probably planning on a massive

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remodel and renovation to ticket your kitchen up to, up to, you know, a standard. Um, you want to

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be able to work with the space that you have to be as low cost as possible. So that's the challenge

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of this bill is we absolutely love the idea of innovation and pathways to food entrepreneurship,

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but this model is just one of those where it's like, oh, this is just a really hard one to be

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okay with some of the compromising around food safety. Why do the proponents think that it's

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okay or why are they asking for kind of these reduced regulations compared to restaurants?

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I think it's, it's that desire to legitimize operations that are already going and already

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happening that we know that we know exist. Sure. You can understand that. Oh, absolutely. It's a

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low barrier. It's low cost. Um, and so, you know, there, it is, you know, that is a really solid

375
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argument of if I'm interested in, you know, doing something that's incredibly part-time, but I don't

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have to leave my home and I don't have to think about, um, rent or childcare or other things.

377
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,600
And I have, you know, my community that's very interested and it's already around my house,

378
00:35:16,240 --> 00:35:22,000
you know, it's a really enticing, you know, enticing avenue. And I think that's a big argument

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that proponents have of this. And we definitely see that and, and, and don't disagree with that

380
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:33,520
at all. Yeah. Tough issue. Tough issue. What's the bill number? That bill number is 5605. Okay.

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So we've talked about two today, 1684, which had to do with water recreation. You guys are in favor

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of that bill. Uh, and then the last one we just talked about 5605, that's the micro enterprise

383
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home kitchens. And at this point you are not supporting the bill, have many concerns around

384
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food safety issues. Well, thanks Jamie, uh, for bringing that information today. I think it was

385
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,640
super interesting. I know I learned a lot. I'm sure our listeners learned a lot. Maybe you learned a

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lot about, you know, what we should put pickles on and what we shouldn't, or maybe you taught me a

387
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:07,440
few things about that. I don't know. I'm so excited to bring you more pink pickles. Like there's beets,

388
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there's red onions. Okay. Beets are fine, but just regular pickles, like cucumber pickles should not

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be pink. I think we could agree on that. I mean, we should have a lot of red onions to turn up a

390
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cucumber pink. I like red onions. I think we need to do a separate podcast on your apprehension to

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culinary delights. I just think we should do a red onion, a dilling red onion intervention or

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something. So maybe something like that. Well, Jamie, we'll see you soon. Okay. All right. Take care of all.

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All right. You too. Thanks for tuning in to County Connection. Stay in the loop by subscribing to

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