1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,000 Are you comfortable? 2 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:03,240 Do you need a pillow? 3 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:05,440 You know what you need, 4 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:06,400 because it's... 5 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:09,040 What are you doing? 6 00:00:09,040 --> 00:00:10,840 Oh, wow. 7 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:12,240 You really are getting comfy. 8 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:15,920 Welcome to County Connection, 9 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,520 the official podcast of the Washington State Association 10 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,160 of Counties, where we dive into the legislative issues 11 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,160 shaping the future of our communities. 12 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,600 From budgets to public safety, infrastructure to elections, 13 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,120 we'll break down what's happening in Olympia 14 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,240 and how it impacts counties from across the Evergreen State. 15 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:34,840 Stay informed, stay engaged, and join us 16 00:00:34,840 --> 00:00:38,080 as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39 counties. 17 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,000 Hey, welcome everybody to episode three 18 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:44,600 of the County Connection podcast. 19 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:46,640 I'm Paul Jewell, the government relations director 20 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,480 with the Washington State Association of Counties, 21 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:50,920 and we're gonna start a little different this week 22 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:52,120 than we have in previous weeks. 23 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:53,880 We're gonna start off with someone 24 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:55,640 who's not a WSAC staff member, 25 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,280 but also is someone who's a pretty important member 26 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:02,480 of our policy team during this legislative session. 27 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,520 Brian Enslow, welcome to your first performance, 28 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,040 your debut opportunity on the County Connection podcast. 29 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:09,880 How are things? 30 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:10,720 Things are great. 31 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:11,720 Thank you for that nice introduction. 32 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:13,400 I'm excited to be here and looking forward 33 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,400 to having a hopefully enjoyable and robust conversation 34 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,000 about the county housing priorities. 35 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,800 So you're the second person so far this year 36 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:23,840 in this podcast that I've interviewed, 37 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,120 who was a former, no, you're the third person, 38 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,400 who was a former employee of WSAC. 39 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:31,920 Most people probably don't know that 40 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,560 because we have so many new members. 41 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:35,800 There's a few old timers around like me, 42 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,400 who remember when you were staffed here at the association. 43 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,240 But how's it feel to be back? 44 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:43,440 Does it feel a little strange, a little weird, 45 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:44,640 or is it kinda nice? 46 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:45,600 It's great to be back. 47 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,320 And it doesn't surprise me that several individuals 48 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,000 have wanted to find opportunities 49 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,000 to reconnect with this organization. 50 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,600 It was a very seminal time in my career 51 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,240 and a really informative time. 52 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,440 It's a great organization. 53 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,840 The connection to public service and individuals 54 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:05,560 in the community are something that I find really valuable 55 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,040 as I kinda try to continue to find meaning 56 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:09,480 in what I do in every day. 57 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,720 So in many ways it feels like it's exactly the same, 58 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:14,960 but in many ways it's obviously a lot different. 59 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,120 As you mentioned, there's very few members 60 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:20,440 that either I recognize or recognize me 61 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,280 in any group dynamic. 62 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,520 It takes time to develop relationships, 63 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:26,960 earn trust, and things like that. 64 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,640 But I am excited for the opportunity 65 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:30,720 and it is some really meaningful work 66 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,160 that you've assigned to me, so I'm excited about that. 67 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,640 Let's dive into that a little bit. 68 00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:40,000 You're back working with WSAC this year. 69 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,280 You're part of the policy team as a contractor. 70 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:43,840 We have a couple of contractors this year 71 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,000 because we've had some changes in staff. 72 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,240 But your role is a little bit more limited 73 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,080 than some of the others. 74 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:49,960 You're pretty focused. 75 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:51,480 Let's talk about what you're doing. 76 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:52,320 That's great. 77 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:53,800 You're right. 78 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,840 I would say unlike a general purpose 79 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:58,680 or a portfolio-based lobbyist 80 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,120 where you are gonna cover the full breadth and scope 81 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:06,120 of issues, I have a very targeted 82 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:11,560 and very narrow focus, which is to work diligently 83 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,720 to help advance the county's housing priorities. 84 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:18,960 So that is the bill pertaining 85 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,440 to multifamily tax exemption within the UGA. 86 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,920 It's the bill that authorizes and clarifies 87 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:29,920 the county's authority around detached ADUs 88 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:32,880 in the rural areas of counties. 89 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,160 All right, before you go on, you just used an acronym 90 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:38,040 for the first time, detached accessory dwelling units. 91 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:38,880 Correct. 92 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:39,700 And what are those? 93 00:03:39,700 --> 00:03:40,720 I was just testing, Paul. 94 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:41,560 Yeah, thank you. 95 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:42,380 I appreciate it. 96 00:03:42,380 --> 00:03:43,220 Did I pass the test? 97 00:03:43,220 --> 00:03:45,640 Well, how much time do we have here? 98 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:46,720 We got 20 minutes. 99 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,600 Okay, so I don't like sharing personal stories 100 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,160 a lot of times because I represent you 101 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,040 and it's not necessarily appropriate for me 102 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,280 to interject myself and my personal story. 103 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:58,440 If we're gonna get too personal, 104 00:03:58,440 --> 00:03:59,520 I might have to call in HR. 105 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,280 I just wanna know, is there a warning? 106 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:02,640 Do we need to put a warning on this one? 107 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,080 No, there's no trigger warnings. 108 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:04,920 There's no HIPAA. 109 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:05,740 Okay, perfect. 110 00:04:05,740 --> 00:04:08,720 But towards the end of my mother's life, 111 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:10,100 she moved down to Olympia. 112 00:04:10,100 --> 00:04:13,560 And it was the first time as an adult 113 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:15,760 that I lived in kind of the same space 114 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:17,320 and proximity as my mom. 115 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:21,360 And it really fundamentally changed our relationship. 116 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:24,320 And it was meaningful and it was really valuable. 117 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:26,840 And one of the things was she was close, 118 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:29,060 but not like enmeshed. 119 00:04:29,060 --> 00:04:30,640 And if you think about, 120 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:32,280 because before she would come, 121 00:04:32,280 --> 00:04:33,600 she would stay in our house. 122 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:38,320 She'd be at our house like in for 48 hours, 76 hours. 123 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,320 And it was, to me, it was, I felt disruptive 124 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,920 and it was difficult and it was too much in some ways. 125 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,360 And I wouldn't say I resented it, but it was difficult. 126 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:49,760 But then when she moved here, 127 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:51,160 we could have a cup of coffee, 128 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:52,360 we could have lunch together, 129 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:53,640 she could help out with the kids. 130 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:55,560 And that's kind of the difference in some ways 131 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,080 of it's attached ADU, which is what, Paul? 132 00:04:58,080 --> 00:04:59,600 An attached ADU? 133 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:00,440 Yeah, what is an ADU again? 134 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,280 It's like an accessory dwelling unit. 135 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:04,120 Is that what we're talking about? 136 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:05,400 That's a good one, okay. 137 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,400 Accessory dwelling unit. 138 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:08,920 All right, I'm gonna write it on my hand. 139 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,780 So, and that's, to me, that's the difference 140 00:05:10,780 --> 00:05:12,400 of what's currently allowed, 141 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,840 is that to have that extra space is really meaningful, 142 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:19,320 where you can have, whether it's an aging parent, 143 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,820 whether it's a child that's starting 144 00:05:21,820 --> 00:05:23,280 to launch themselves into life, 145 00:05:23,280 --> 00:05:27,280 it can give them that space to have that independence 146 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:30,580 and in some ways, like sense of self and sense of pride, 147 00:05:30,580 --> 00:05:33,040 but still have this, but have enough separation 148 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:36,040 where it feels comfortable and workable for everyone. 149 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:37,800 Yeah, well, thanks for sharing that story with us. 150 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,040 And I think that story is emblematic 151 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,240 of a lot of the same reasons that other people 152 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,880 wanna have these either attached or detached ADUs 153 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:47,720 on their property. 154 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:49,600 Like you said, oftentimes it is a family member. 155 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:52,520 It could be that aging, someone who wants to age in place 156 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:53,760 needs a more affordable option. 157 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,600 It could be trying to launch a child. 158 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:57,760 It could be another family member 159 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,720 who maybe just needs a little extra help, right? 160 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:02,480 Hasn't found their way for whatever reason, 161 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:04,200 or maybe even has a disability. 162 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,960 And having them in that close proximity 163 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,280 can provide that level of support, 164 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:10,920 or for you, it can even build a better relationship, 165 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:15,360 or even take a relationship with a family member 166 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:19,040 to another level that's more meaningful over time, right? 167 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:23,160 And this bill would allow that to happen 168 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,720 in rural areas of counties, right? 169 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,040 Mm-hmm, exactly. 170 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:28,120 Yeah, okay. 171 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,480 Well, so you mentioned there were others as well. 172 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,400 We've talked about the multifamily tax exemption bill, 173 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:35,400 right? 174 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,640 We talked about the ADU bill, 175 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,640 which is accessory dwelling units. 176 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:40,720 What else are you working on? 177 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,600 I'm also working on missing middle in the UGA. 178 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,160 So we have... 179 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,400 Okay, so we just used another acronym. 180 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,040 Let's see, missing middle. 181 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:52,000 Tell us what that is. 182 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,760 Missing middle is a concept that is cribbing off of 183 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,200 some work that was done in previous legislation. 184 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,600 At the time, it was the bill number was House Bill 1110, 185 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,400 I believe, by then Representative Bateman, 186 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:06,760 now Senator Bateman, 187 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,000 which authorized and quite frankly required 188 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,360 within city limits an allowance 189 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,000 for a mixture of housing types. 190 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,760 Middle housing and statute is defined as... 191 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:21,000 There's various elements, 192 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,840 but think duplex, triplexes, cottage homes. 193 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,760 I think it's all the way up to sixplexes in the definition, 194 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:32,760 but an assortment of novel and smaller housing types, 195 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:37,760 which accommodate the opportunity for either increased density 196 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:41,080 or also additional pathways to home ownership 197 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:44,120 that are a little bit cheaper than a single family home. 198 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:45,680 So that's what missing middle is, 199 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,280 and that's how it's defined currently in statute. 200 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,280 So it's called missing though, right? 201 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,040 Missing middle or middle housing. 202 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:53,200 Why is it called missing? 203 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:57,240 It comes from the fact that if you walk around 204 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,000 in some older or historic neighborhoods, 205 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:01,960 if they're available in your community, 206 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,280 you might actually not realize 207 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,400 that these kinds of housing types 208 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,400 had historically been built 209 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,000 within just traditional neighborhoods. 210 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,600 A lot of that's because the aesthetic 211 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:15,440 and design was made to match, 212 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:17,520 but next time you're not walking around, 213 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,960 if you live in a community that has some older homes, 214 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,840 check it out, you might see some duplexes. 215 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:24,440 And so... 216 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,200 Now that you mentioned it, Brian, 217 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,120 like in the town where I live, we have a university, 218 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,000 and the neighborhood around that university 219 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,840 has larger homes and it has some small apartment complexes 220 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,480 and some duplexes, and even some of the larger homes 221 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,920 have been turned into, say, two or three or four 222 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:43,280 individual residences. 223 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,200 And the same thing is true right here in Olympia 224 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:46,200 around the Capitol building, 225 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,080 that older historic neighborhood there. 226 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:49,960 So that's the type of environment 227 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:50,960 that you're talking about. 228 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:51,800 Exactly. 229 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,040 And in many communities, those are actually 230 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,640 some of the more desirable neighborhoods 231 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:56,880 that people wanna live in. 232 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:58,880 That's been the experience that I've seen. 233 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,040 I mean, I live here in Olympia. 234 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,840 I've been here since 1999, 235 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,480 but the South Capitol neighborhood 236 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,480 has historically always been one of the most 237 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:11,480 desirable neighborhoods for numerous factors, 238 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,720 proximity to the Capitol, walkability, things like that. 239 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,800 But the quality and availability 240 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,160 of different types of housing 241 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:20,440 is certainly an aspect of that. 242 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,520 And at some point, we must've lost that. 243 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:24,200 Hence the missing, yes. 244 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,120 And when did that happen and how? 245 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,280 This is not something I've studied in school, 246 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:31,840 so I'm not sure if I can answer that accurately, 247 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:36,440 but clearly the lack of an explicit authorizing environment 248 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,240 and a regulatory environment that either allowed it 249 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,000 or encouraged it as a function of that. 250 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,040 But I don't know exactly when that changed, 251 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:45,600 but I think as I mentioned, 252 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,320 you're looking at probably post-war time where- 253 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,320 That's exactly when it happened actually, 254 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,280 was really in the 1950s when we had all the GIs 255 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:56,800 coming back from the war. 256 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,600 They needed housing, 257 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,640 and we also had the explosion of the automobile. 258 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,880 So that's how you created the suburbs, right? 259 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:05,920 So instead of these dense pockets of housing 260 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,920 around marketplaces, around schools, around universities, 261 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,360 like we've seen in these older neighborhoods, 262 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,200 people were able to travel a little farther out 263 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:16,440 because they had vehicles, 264 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,720 and you ended up with more of a car culture, 265 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,760 and then you ended up with the modern subdivision. 266 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,360 And the modern subdivision 267 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:26,040 doesn't have middle housing in it, right? 268 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,720 It's a lot of the same home right next to each other, 269 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:30,400 right next to each other, right next to each other, 270 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:32,040 oftentimes on the cul-de-sac. 271 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:32,880 So you don't have that same- 272 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:33,720 In a different color. 273 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:34,560 Yeah. 274 00:10:34,560 --> 00:10:36,160 Different color, and the floor plans flipped. 275 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:37,000 Yeah. 276 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:37,840 Exactly. 277 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,000 Every third house is exactly the same, right? 278 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,080 But that's how that kind of cultural phenomenon was created. 279 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:44,200 You're exactly right. 280 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,320 It was right after World War II 281 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,240 when that kind of took hold and became kind of the standard. 282 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:54,280 And so this bill wants to bring some of that back, 283 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,240 or at least the opportunity to bring some of that back. 284 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:57,440 So how does it actually do it? 285 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:00,560 So this bill allows, 286 00:11:00,560 --> 00:11:03,160 and again, there's nothing in this bill that's prescriptive. 287 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,000 It's entirely within the choice 288 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:06,760 of the legislative authority of the county 289 00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:09,480 to make a decision about whether they want 290 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,720 to allow these types of housing to, 291 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:16,680 and it's whether they want this type of housing 292 00:11:16,680 --> 00:11:19,800 to be available in their communities 293 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,800 within the urban growth area of the county. 294 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,720 Which is the other acronym that you used 295 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:27,080 when we started talking about this one. 296 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:27,920 Yes. 297 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:28,760 You said UGA. 298 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:29,600 I did. 299 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:31,280 So that's what UGA stands for, urban growth area. 300 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:32,120 Correct. 301 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:32,960 Okay. 302 00:11:32,960 --> 00:11:36,120 So I think one of the key pieces 303 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,080 that we're trying to align is in particular, 304 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,520 so this, and we should have circled back to this 305 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:42,360 because it's important. 306 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:47,280 This is specific to the 28 counties 307 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,000 that currently are either required to 308 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,040 or choose to plan under the Growth Management Act. 309 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:53,880 Okay. 310 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,000 And the logic, what we have, and the alignment says 311 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,640 that we know that these counties are required 312 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:05,040 to plan for and accommodate a diverse array 313 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,440 of housing types and individuals 314 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,280 with, you know, of array of economic circumstances. 315 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,160 So we know that we're supposed to be, 316 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,280 we're supposed to be planning for affordable housing, 317 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,640 we're supposed to be planning for market rate housing 318 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,360 and things of that nature, 319 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,680 but we don't necessarily have the tools 320 00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:28,320 to effectuate actually implementing 321 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,120 either affordable housing or market rate housing 322 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:32,360 or things of that nature 323 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,840 and the densities that we're trying to accommodate for. 324 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:35,680 Okay. 325 00:12:35,680 --> 00:12:37,280 So just to make this clear, 326 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,600 so if I'm one of the 28 counties that have to 327 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,760 or choose to plan under the Growth Management Act, 328 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,960 as part of my planning documents, 329 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:46,320 my comprehensive land use plan, 330 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:47,640 which is kind of that big document 331 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,760 that you create through planning, 332 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:53,080 I have to find a way to accommodate different types of housing 333 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:55,080 for different types of income levels. 334 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:55,920 Correct. 335 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:57,400 So I can't just have housing that's affordable 336 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,920 to wealthy people in my community 337 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:01,360 or housing that's affordable 338 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,320 to middle income people in my community 339 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:05,640 or all affordable housing in my community 340 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:09,440 that maybe is, you know, housing for the lower income 341 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,400 brackets, I've got to plan for all the different types 342 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,080 of that type of housing where I live. 343 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,120 And you're saying that counties don't necessarily have 344 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,360 all the tools they need to make that happen. 345 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,000 That's really one of the harmonizing elements 346 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,760 of this bill and the MFTE bill is talking about 347 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,440 aligning the toolkit with the expectation. 348 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:33,000 And as we've noted, there's gaps in our toolkit, 349 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,800 and this helps fill those gaps. 350 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:35,640 Okay. 351 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:37,200 And you know, just to, 352 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,320 the planning requirement we're talking about 353 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,600 is under the housing element that was brought in, 354 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,680 and I believe the 2021 session in House Bill, 355 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:50,480 that year it was 1220. 356 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:52,600 Okay, and just to explain to the listener 357 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,600 who may not be familiar with the planning process, 358 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,200 the housing element is a required component 359 00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:59,120 of your comprehensive land use plan 360 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,720 that is regulated by the requirements 361 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,440 on how you plan under the Growth Management Act, right? 362 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,680 So that particular piece is where all of this housing 363 00:14:09,680 --> 00:14:14,240 related planning work actually lives 364 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,080 for lack of a better term. 365 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,920 Yeah, and I think the, 366 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:19,600 and one of the points I was trying to make is this, 367 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:21,440 it is a new responsibility, 368 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,640 or it's a newly articulated requirement, 369 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:27,960 whether or not you viewed it as a responsibility 370 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,600 or an obligation before is, 371 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,200 I don't know, but I would just simply say that 372 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,440 specifically having the state articulate this requirement 373 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:38,840 that you plan for and accommodate all these housing types 374 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:40,440 is relatively new. 375 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:43,840 So it's not necessarily a failing of a state 376 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,280 to have not had these tools in place before, 377 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:47,840 but now that we've educated them 378 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:49,040 and brought it to their attention, 379 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:50,880 it is something that we do feel strongly 380 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:52,040 that they should address. 381 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:54,880 Okay, so this bill provides some additional tools 382 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,200 essentially for counties to what, 383 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,320 allow or encourage or require middle housing 384 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:02,160 in certain areas. 385 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:03,280 You mentioned the urban growth area, 386 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,560 and for again, just making sure everybody follows along, 387 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,640 an urban growth area is a designated zone 388 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:11,160 outside of a city typically, 389 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,000 or it can be a standalone area 390 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:14,800 where more urban development 391 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,280 is supposed to actually occur within the county. 392 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,360 And so that's the area that's more appropriate 393 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,240 for denser type of housing, 394 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,600 like this middle housing would be. 395 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,160 So what would a county do if this, 396 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:29,800 what could a county do if this bill passed? 397 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:31,600 Great, and I do, 398 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,520 I wanna be very clear, it is permissive. 399 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,160 Okay, so they can do it, they don't have to do it. 400 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:39,160 Don't have to. 401 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:40,000 Okay. 402 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,000 Permissive, you can. 403 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,400 And the plain language of the statute 404 00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,760 is it allows you to allow at least one unit 405 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,080 of middle housing within your UGA. 406 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:49,400 Now you can do more, 407 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,600 but and again, we kind of described 408 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,360 what the middle housing elements are 409 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,320 or what they could look like. 410 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,360 So it gives you a fair amount of flexibility. 411 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,800 There are some restrictions around, 412 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,640 and Paul has to help me here on this one, 413 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,480 lamerates, limited areas of. 414 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:08,280 More intensive rural development. 415 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:13,200 So a lamerate is, for those of you who don't speak, 416 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:14,560 Growth Management Act out there 417 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,600 or planning in Washington state, 418 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,200 there are small rural towns that exist in our counties. 419 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:24,560 If you think Lewis County, which is just south of us, 420 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,400 Packwood is a really good example, right? 421 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:30,480 Or if you think Pacific County, 422 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:35,480 think of Boy Lamont out in that area. 423 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,760 These are small rural towns that may have been bigger 424 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,000 at one point or another, 425 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,280 or may still be the same size that they were historically, 426 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:43,720 but they're not incorporated. 427 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,800 And one of the things we know is they're really important 428 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:46,640 for workforce housing. 429 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:47,680 Oh, extremely important. 430 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,920 And so we did. 431 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:51,480 Because they're close to resources, right? 432 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,680 They're close to farms, they're close to mining resources, 433 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,880 they're close to timber resources. 434 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,920 And we need people to work in those resource industries. 435 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,040 And if they're gonna do that, 436 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:04,040 we want them to live closer to where they were. 437 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,240 So how do we make something more affordable 438 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:07,960 than just your traditional cookie cutter, 439 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:08,800 single family home? 440 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,600 And I shouldn't say, 441 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,680 just your traditional single family home. 442 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:15,760 Sure, so this allows this kind of middle housing 443 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:16,600 in those areas too. 444 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:17,440 It does. 445 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:18,600 There's a little tighter restriction, 446 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:20,200 and that's from input. 447 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,040 That's not something that we put forward, 448 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,160 but that was something that was required, 449 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:26,520 or that was something, accommodation that was asked for 450 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:27,880 from some of the stakeholder communities. 451 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,040 So we did tighten that up a little bit, 452 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:31,600 but it's still up to four units. 453 00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:32,560 Okay. 454 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,600 So in addition to even having, 455 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,800 you can think about that in various different ways, 456 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,160 whether that's breaking it up 457 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:44,080 into smaller single family units on the lot, 458 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,760 or you could think of something like two duplexes. 459 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:48,760 Oh right, or even a fourplex. 460 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:49,600 Or a fourplex. 461 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:50,440 Yeah. 462 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,360 Okay, interesting, interesting. 463 00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:55,400 Which might make more sense for the workforce 464 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,920 that workforce needs in that community. 465 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,040 Sure, and workforce could be, 466 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,440 I mean it doesn't necessarily even have to be 467 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:04,120 folks who might be working on resource lands. 468 00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:06,000 Those communities need schools too. 469 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:08,280 They also need grocery stores and pharmacists, 470 00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,680 and doctors and others too. 471 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,600 So there's all kinds of needs in rural areas like that 472 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,000 to provide for services. 473 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:19,440 I remember the first time that I had a real 474 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,160 blinding flash of the obvious, 475 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:25,040 or just an aha moment of how serious the housing shortage 476 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:26,240 and housing crisis was, 477 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:29,960 was when the CEO of Confluence Hospital in the Wenatchee area 478 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,440 said that they had a hard time recruiting doctors 479 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,480 and other highly credentialed medical staff 480 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:39,280 because there wasn't any housing 481 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,360 in like Chelan County for them. 482 00:18:41,360 --> 00:18:43,640 I know, that's amazing to think about, right? 483 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,480 I mean when you think about the city of Wenatchee, 484 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:46,800 the city of East Wenatchee, 485 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,640 you think these are fairly good sized metropolitan areas, 486 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,400 especially for that part of the state, 487 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,920 and to think that Confluence Health, 488 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,920 the major medical provider in that community, 489 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,520 can't recruit qualified medical professionals 490 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,720 because of the housing shortage in that environment, 491 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,400 it's a little mind blowing. 492 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,760 It certainly changed my perspective, 493 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,840 because I think like many people who weren't educated 494 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,200 and didn't have, kind of the, 495 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,280 one of the beautiful things about WSAC 496 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,200 is that you have the entire state represented, 497 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,000 and you have the opportunity to be educated about 498 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:27,760 this isn't just a Puget Sound problem. 499 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:28,840 Right, right. 500 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,720 And this isn't just an urban issue 501 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:36,720 that only exists in certain parts of the state. 502 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,520 This is an issue that is statewide, 503 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:44,760 and there is an appetite, as we've learned, 504 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,880 to address it in many different communities 505 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,960 that maybe haven't historically thought 506 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,120 of having needs for increased density. 507 00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:54,440 Yeah, you know, at WSAC we're really lucky 508 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,000 we wear a different pair of glasses 509 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,280 than almost anybody else, 510 00:19:57,280 --> 00:19:59,640 because our members come from every corner 511 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,080 of Washington state, from every community of all sizes. 512 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,680 And what we do know is this housing crisis 513 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:07,680 has touched every single one of them. 514 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,080 And excuse me, this is a great tool 515 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,320 that whether you're in an urban area 516 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,440 with more dense development that already exists, 517 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:18,400 or you're in a more rural area, 518 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,280 or you're maybe kind of in a transitional area, 519 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,920 like Wenatchee for instance, 520 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:26,560 this is a tool that the county can use 521 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:28,240 to improve the housing stock in that area 522 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:29,600 should they choose to do so. 523 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,800 You know, that's one of the things that really, 524 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,120 you know, you mentioned transitional areas. 525 00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:36,840 I mean, that's really one of the reasons 526 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,880 behind the MFTE bill, Multifamily Tax Exemption Bill, 527 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:44,560 is thinking about having a catalyst 528 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,240 to really incentivize the development 529 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,560 and diversity of a particular area. 530 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:51,600 Well, that was a perfect transition 531 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,880 because we kind of skipped over that one a little bit. 532 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:54,720 We did a little bit. 533 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,200 Yeah, so I'm glad you went back to it. 534 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:58,880 Before we get into it too much, 535 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,440 because I wanna dive into the details, 536 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,720 let's explain what the Multifamily Tax Exemption Program is. 537 00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:06,920 You called it MFTE. 538 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,640 That's the short, again, acronym for it, 539 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,120 but it stands for, again, Multifamily Tax Exemption. 540 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:14,800 What is that program exactly? 541 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,520 Well, it is a program that provides 542 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,920 a financial incentive for a developer 543 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:22,120 to create either market rate housing, 544 00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,760 depending on what pathway, or affordable housing, 545 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,960 through the tax exemption associated with the property tax 546 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:31,040 on what will be built. 547 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:33,120 Right, so it's the new portion of the project. 548 00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:35,080 It is the new portion of the project. 549 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:40,080 And this is something that communities choose to use. 550 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,000 So it's available for, for instance, most cities. 551 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,360 They can actually choose to offer this 552 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:47,840 to a developer or a development or not. 553 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,920 And it's currently available to some counties, 554 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:52,680 some of our members, I think four of them, 555 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,880 have access to it with a lot of really stiff restrictions. 556 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,080 But what's great about the program is, 557 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,960 as a county, you actually get to consider it 558 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:05,840 on a project-by-project basis. 559 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,400 So you really get to think about 560 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:08,960 this project that's in front of me 561 00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:12,520 who wants to use this tax exemption program, 562 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:15,680 should I offer it, should I allow it, 563 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,000 based on what benefits it's gonna provide my community, 564 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,000 or not? 565 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,160 So it's very flexible in that way. 566 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,480 What does this bill actually do? 567 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:29,480 So to your point, there is a very narrow window 568 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,200 of opportunity for counties to utilize this tool. 569 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,480 The current statutory environment 570 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,680 has a unincorporated property, 571 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:43,480 unincorporated, easy for me to say, population threshold. 572 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,480 And then even within that, it has caveats 573 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:48,920 about adjacent to a university 574 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,640 and transportation requirements. 575 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:52,480 So I think functionally, when- 576 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,080 Does cities have any of those requirements? 577 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:54,920 No, they do not. 578 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:55,920 So it's just counties? 579 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:57,160 It's just counties. 580 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:58,600 And to your point about cities, 581 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,880 it's under most circumstances, 582 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:05,520 it's cities with populations as low as 15,000. 583 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:10,520 And in some instances, it's cities with as few as 5,000. 584 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,640 So it's not, I think some of the arguments we've heard 585 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:20,640 is about does a county that is required to plan 586 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,440 under the Growth Management Act or has opted in, 587 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,480 do they have the sophistication 588 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:30,040 to handle these determinations? 589 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:32,080 And I mean, clearly the answer is yes. 590 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:33,320 Yes, of course it is. 591 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:34,320 I think the legislature, 592 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,440 it's not intentionally insulting, right? 593 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,680 I don't think anyone, but it is to react to it, 594 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:46,680 to say, I think we're pretty sophisticated entities. 595 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,680 We're responsible for all the adjudication 596 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,240 of your felony cases, 597 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:53,720 for administering the public health system. 598 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:55,680 But not housing for whatever reason, yeah. 599 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:57,320 Well, but yeah. 600 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:58,640 Not in the eyes of the legislature. 601 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,640 And it's interesting that you bring that up 602 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,000 and we're kind of going off on a tangent a little bit 603 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,920 and I want us to come back, but just really quickly, 604 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,200 I think that the legislature just doesn't think about 605 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:13,400 counties when they think about housing for whatever reason, 606 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,040 especially when they think about tools 607 00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,080 like multifamily housing or middle housing, 608 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,600 more affordable options, 609 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,560 they're not thinking about counties. 610 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,680 Because I just don't think they understand 611 00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,720 the planning process, 612 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,720 the way it's laid out in the Growth Management Act 613 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,800 and the fact that urban growth areas are supposed to be. 614 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:35,040 In fact, counties have an obligation to develop 615 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,320 those areas to an urban density. 616 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,320 And when they're affiliated with a city, 617 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,200 they're supposed to be the 20 year growth boundary 618 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,040 for that city. 619 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,080 So it just makes sense to allow the same tools 620 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,880 in the city as you would in the area 621 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,480 that's supposed to be the city in a few years. 622 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,520 Otherwise, you're just gonna be back in the same problem. 623 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,200 Right, you're just gonna have the same situation 624 00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,280 that you have now that you're trying to correct. 625 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:02,280 It is a significant lost opportunity. 626 00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:03,120 Yeah. 627 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:08,120 From the perspective of trying to address housing 628 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:09,720 and affordability. 629 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:10,560 Sure. 630 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,080 And wearing a different hat, 631 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,080 I had worked on a piece of legislation 632 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,880 that creates an annexation sales tax credit. 633 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,040 And part of that argument when I was talking about that 634 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,880 is look, if one of the ways to... 635 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:28,160 I remember that bill, by the way. 636 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,640 We worked collaboratively on that bill. 637 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,840 It was, I wouldn't have brought it up 638 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:34,480 if it was still a source of tension, 639 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:35,920 but maybe I would have. 640 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,360 But the long and short of it is the logic I used at the time 641 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:43,200 is the way that we can improve and enhance 642 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,080 the roles that the cities are playing 643 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,320 is to make the cities bigger, to expand into the UGA. 644 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,480 And really what it got at is there's this whole area 645 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,480 of what looks like urban to me in many communities. 646 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,480 And I'm pretty familiar with the city of Vancouver 647 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,880 and then the almost 100,000 individuals 648 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,480 living in the UGA in Clark County. 649 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,320 I'll bet some of them think they live in the city. 650 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,720 I think most of them probably identify with the city 651 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:14,440 if they don't think they live in. 652 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,520 But as a visitor, it's impossible, 653 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,480 as you're driving around, unless you're sophisticated, 654 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,560 it doesn't look any different is what I'm getting at. 655 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:27,560 But you're right, but it's been certainly a lost opportunity 656 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:29,400 and something that we're trying to bring attention to. 657 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,960 And so this fixes that lost opportunity 658 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:33,880 by doing what exactly? 659 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,760 Well, we've seen time and time again 660 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,960 that this is a powerful tool. 661 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,560 As we said, this program's been in place, 662 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,600 I apologize, I don't know how, but for some time now 663 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,960 and has been utilized in many communities 664 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,760 to activate areas of growth and development 665 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,400 that wouldn't otherwise happen 666 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,200 or certainly wouldn't otherwise happen 667 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,400 in the timeframe in which they did. 668 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:02,400 And so what this does is opens that opportunity 669 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,520 for all 28 counties planning under the Growth Management Act 670 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,640 to utilize this tool to help incentivize 671 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,720 the development of diverse housing stock. 672 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,920 Okay, so this takes away a lot of those kind of 673 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,280 strange requirements that you were talking about before. 674 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,120 Population piece, not so strange, 675 00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:26,520 but this idea that you had to be near a university 676 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,760 and those sorts of things, all that's gone. 677 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:32,280 And so any county that plans into the GMA 678 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,320 would have access to this tool as well. 679 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:35,160 Correct. 680 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:36,000 Okay. 681 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,400 And not to, the population piece is strange 682 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,520 because it uses that as a proxy for urbanization. 683 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,600 And I don't think that's entirely true. 684 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:49,080 So I don't think, so for instance, 685 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,360 Kitsap is eligible based on the, 686 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:55,880 and they do have large chunks of urban-like populations. 687 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:57,160 But I don't think anyone would just, 688 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,720 if I gave you three choices to say, 689 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,560 what's the, if I said three guesses, 690 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,480 which county has the fifth largest unincorporated population? 691 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,400 I don't know if you would guess Kitsap, I guess. 692 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:12,680 Yeah, I don't know if I would either. 693 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:14,680 And I'm supposed to know those things. 694 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,400 Exactly. 695 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:17,240 That's great. 696 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:21,840 Well, we've got more to talk about on our housing priority, 697 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,480 but we are out of time. 698 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,080 We've talked about detached accessory dwelling units today. 699 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:28,880 We've talked about our middle housing bill. 700 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:30,640 We've talked about MFTEs. 701 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,040 What are those bill numbers if people wanna follow 702 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,280 right along with us? 703 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:35,120 Great. 704 00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:35,940 In the legislature. 705 00:28:35,940 --> 00:28:36,840 And you're gonna be mad at me, 706 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,160 but we still have to mention 707 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,800 that we're working on the budget proviso. 708 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,920 And I think we've come up with a really interesting 709 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:48,920 partnership on developing stock middle housing plans. 710 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:51,000 We've got some language, 711 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:52,400 we might have an opportunity to partner 712 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:53,800 with the community college system. 713 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,240 And so I think that's really exciting. 714 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:56,920 That won't have a bill number. 715 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,240 But on MFTE. 716 00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:59,800 Why would I be mad at you about that? 717 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:01,160 Because you told me we're out of time 718 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:02,880 and I still swung an extra. 719 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:03,960 This is our podcast. 720 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,600 We can make it last as long as we want to. 721 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,440 It's just a matter of whether or not the listeners 722 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:08,600 wanna stay with us. 723 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,640 So for MFTE, it's House Bill 1206, 724 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,040 our sponsor is Representative Low. 725 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,960 In the Senate side, it's 5679, 726 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,720 sponsored by Senator Dozier. 727 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,720 So that was 1206 in the House and 5679 in the Senate. 728 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,680 Middle housing bill is 1840, 729 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,160 was just introduced by Representative Peterson 730 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,120 and Representative Low in the House. 731 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,200 In the Senate, it's 5471 by Senator Gaynor 732 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:38,360 and Senator Bateman. 733 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:39,760 That's middle housing. 734 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,480 So that's 1840 in the House, 5471 in the Senate. 735 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:45,320 Got it. 736 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,000 And then with respect to ADU, 737 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,800 and what are those again, Paul? 738 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,360 Accessory dwelling units. 739 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:51,680 They're not alternative dwelling units? 740 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,720 No, no, you're thinking of AI, artificial intelligence. 741 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:56,560 Oh, jeez. 742 00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,720 I always have a hard time thinking 743 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,320 AI, artificial intelligence 744 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:01,760 versus alternative intelligence. 745 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,920 I don't know why, but I never screwed up with ADUs. 746 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:05,840 And we're not allowed to call them 747 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,560 mother-in-laws anymore either. 748 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:08,720 Like mother-in-law apartments? 749 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,960 Yeah, I don't know if we were ever allowed to call them that. 750 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,240 Probably not unless your mother-in-law was actually in it. 751 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:14,360 Okay, all right. 752 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,040 So 1345. 753 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:16,880 Okay. 754 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,720 135470. 755 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,960 So that's 1345, that's the House bill. 756 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,400 And the Senate bill is 5470. 757 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,400 Yeah, and one, even one, 758 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,000 I'm taking another bite of the apple 759 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,320 and he's really gonna kill me now. 760 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:30,160 It's a delicious apple, go for it. 761 00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,560 You should see, it's like, there's anger in his voice. 762 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,080 By the time you listen to this, 763 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,160 I'm hoping that 1345 will be exact 764 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,280 out of the House Housing Committee. 765 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,160 It's scheduled to exact on February 6th at 8 a.m. 766 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,600 Okay, now you're gonna have to explain what exact means. 767 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,040 There are various kind of gates 768 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,040 that we have to make through in a certain amount of time. 769 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:55,880 In the legislature. 770 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:57,240 In the legislature. 771 00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,560 It's the embodiment of the Federalist Papers. 772 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,600 It is a system that is designed to fail 773 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:02,840 and they have these opportunities 774 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,120 where if you don't meet these certain progress points, 775 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,520 you know, your bill is essentially dead for the first year. 776 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,160 So we're pretty ahead of the game 777 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,440 and they were introduced in, 778 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,480 well, they were introduced in their respective committees 779 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,000 and these bills are now scheduled to be exact 780 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,880 out of their respective committees, 781 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:26,880 which means the committee members take executive action. 782 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,600 They take a vote and they vote it up or down. 783 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:32,280 For the most part, you're not gonna put anything 784 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,640 on the schedule just to vote it down, right? 785 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:35,600 Right. Okay. 786 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,080 So when something's exacted, 787 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,640 it means that it's getting voted out of committee 788 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,320 so it can continue moving through the legislative process. 789 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:45,720 So that's one of the first steps. 790 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:46,960 Correct. Okay. 791 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,960 And our middle housing in the Senate is scheduled as well. 792 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,280 So. Oh, that's exciting. 793 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:55,560 So we've got some action on these. 794 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,320 Yes, and those are scheduled for Friday. 795 00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:59,920 So 5471 is scheduled for Friday 796 00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:04,920 and 5471, which is the ADU, is scheduled for Friday as well. 797 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:06,520 Okay, great. 798 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,440 Well, we'll be watching these. 799 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,000 Thanks for coming by to chat about them, Brian. 800 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,840 We really appreciate the discussion today. 801 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,080 We could probably talk about housing 802 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,000 for another hour or an hour and a half, 803 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,720 but we don't have that much time on the podcast. 804 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,560 You've already taken more than your fair share, 805 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,240 I'm sorry to say, but this is your first time. 806 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,040 So for first timers, we let that slide a little bit. 807 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,480 I appreciate your grace and thanks for the opportunity. 808 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:30,640 Yeah, well, we hope you'll come back 809 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,160 and give us some updates, 810 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,200 hopefully some really good news on these housing bills 811 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,560 as we continue to keep track 812 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:38,800 of what's going on through the session. 813 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,400 I'm contractually required to come back if you want me to. 814 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:42,720 So. 815 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:46,840 Well, you know, that's true, but we'd rather you did it. 816 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:47,760 It's still been a lot of fun. 817 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:48,600 Thank you. 818 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,000 All right, well, we'll see you next time. 819 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,000 Take care till then. 820 00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:54,720 Thanks for tuning in to County Connection. 821 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,480 Stay in the loop by subscribing to us 822 00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,280 through your preferred podcasting app 823 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,600 and following us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. 824 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:02,960 And don't forget to join the hub, 825 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,160 your go-to source for the latest news and updates 826 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,600 from the Washington State Association of Counties. 827 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,480 Until next time, stay connected and stay informed.