1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,640 I'm a peacock, you gotta let me fly. 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,240 Wow. 3 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:05,680 Can peacocks fly? 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:09,520 Welcome to County Connection, 5 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,080 the official podcast of the Washington State Association 6 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:14,760 of Counties, where we dive into the legislative issues 7 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:16,720 shaping the future of our communities. 8 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,160 From budgets to public safety, infrastructure to elections, 9 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,680 we'll break down what's happening in Olympia 10 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,800 and how it impacts counties from across the Evergreen State. 11 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,440 Stay informed, stay engaged, and join us 12 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:33,680 as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39 counties. 13 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:35,800 Welcome back, everybody, to episode three 14 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:37,360 of the County Connection podcast. 15 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,800 I'm Paul Jewell, government relations director 16 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,280 for the Washington State Association of Counties. 17 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,440 And we are back this time with Curtis Steinhauer again. 18 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:47,480 Curtis, good to see you. 19 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:48,560 How's things? 20 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:49,200 Thanks, Paul. 21 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,440 It's good to be here. 22 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,160 Sessions just moving along, drinking from a fire hose. 23 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,560 Yeah, you've been out doing any fishing recently 24 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:57,800 on your days off? 25 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:58,440 I have. 26 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,800 I got out for the snow day on Sunday. 27 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:04,480 Quite successful steelhead fishing 28 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,120 down at Grace Harbor. 29 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:08,360 Paul, you know that's a secret. 30 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,680 I don't know if I can trade those kind of tricks. 31 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:12,160 I heard it was the old nuch. 32 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,240 Paul, Paul, you're burning bridges here. 33 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:17,160 It's a big river. 34 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:18,200 There's lots of people. 35 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,480 You don't have to give up your fishing spot on the river. 36 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,360 But I heard it was the one, the Wynuchi, the Great Wynuchi 37 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:25,080 River, is that right? 38 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:26,280 If you never hear from me again, it's 39 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,760 because my fishing buddies have heard this podcast. 40 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:31,600 Well, I'm glad you're getting out and spending 41 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:32,640 a little time outdoors. 42 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,280 It's good to take a break occasionally. 43 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:36,840 What do you want to talk about today? 44 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,600 So I wanted to talk about the homeless point in time 45 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,080 count that every county is responsible for doing right now 46 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,440 on an annual basis and some things we're 47 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:50,800 doing to address the current situation, which is not ideal. 48 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:52,560 OK, well, let's start at the beginning then. 49 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,640 What is the annual homeless point in time count? 50 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,480 You said that all the counties are 51 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,720 supposed to be doing that now. 52 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:02,640 Let's talk about exactly what it is. 53 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:04,680 So coming out of the Great Recession, 54 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:09,160 there was a push federally to create a consistent annual 55 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,280 census of the unsheltered homeless population 56 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:13,920 in every community. 57 00:02:13,920 --> 00:02:17,080 So this is an effort that's spearheaded 58 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,080 by the Department of Housing and Urban Development 59 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:21,080 at the federal level. 60 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,720 They create all of the structure around the count 61 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,760 and the criteria for what counts as homeless, 62 00:02:26,760 --> 00:02:30,320 all the different data collection elements. 63 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,080 And then they send out directives 64 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,560 to every local government. 65 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,480 Each state does it a little bit differently. 66 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:37,720 Who's responsible? 67 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,960 In Washington state, as of 2013, counties 68 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:43,840 are responsible for administering this homeless 69 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:44,760 point in time count. 70 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,040 So when you're saying every county, 71 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,520 you mean every county in the entire country. 72 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,440 So not every county in the entire country. 73 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:52,480 It's a little bit different. 74 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,120 And especially in states like Louisiana, 75 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:55,960 where they have parishes in that county. 76 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:56,800 Or boroughs. 77 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,160 Massachusetts, where they have townships. 78 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,480 So in some states have chosen to have cities 79 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,120 or regional bodies. 80 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,920 Really what makes counties responsible 81 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:11,560 in Washington state is the 2013 legislation 82 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:16,360 that created the local document recording fee originally 83 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:20,320 and created this imperative for counties 84 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,720 to be the local government entity that plans 85 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:24,880 to address homelessness in their community. 86 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:27,600 And that has had many updates and gone 87 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,680 through many iterations, that original legislation. 88 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,680 But it eventually led to the current situation 89 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,440 where counties execute five year plans to address homelessness. 90 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:38,040 And as a part of that five year plan, 91 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:39,920 they're required to be the entity that 92 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:41,720 does the annual point in time count 93 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,760 and kind of use that as a benchmark number 94 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,920 for how many homeless people are in the community. 95 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,040 At the beginning of this count, it 96 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:52,920 was only unsheltered homeless people. 97 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,280 So that's people who are sleeping outside tonight. 98 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:58,720 And the count was one night, once a year, 99 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,720 counting everyone that slept outside in your community. 100 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:03,640 So is it the same? 101 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,080 OK, so this is happening all across the country, 102 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:07,960 but it's done differently in different states. 103 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,760 In Washington, it's the responsibility of the county. 104 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,120 And you're saying that the point in time count is exactly that. 105 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,720 You pick a date, and you go out, and it's 106 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:19,760 how many people are unhoused in the county 107 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,680 on that particular date. 108 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,280 So what I'm saying is it was that. 109 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:24,040 Oh, it was that. 110 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:25,080 Yes. 111 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,680 Was it the same date across the state? 112 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,280 So whether you were in King County? 113 00:04:29,280 --> 00:04:30,560 Thursday in January. 114 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:31,080 OK. 115 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:32,120 Every place in the country. 116 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:33,320 OK. 117 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,560 So on that date, everybody was doing it. 118 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:36,000 Yep. 119 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:37,080 In the whole country? 120 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:37,640 Whole country. 121 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,720 OK. 122 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:41,240 But it sounds like it's not that way now. 123 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:42,800 It's went through many iterations. 124 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,600 So it was expanded at some point along the way 125 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:50,400 to include what we call sheltered homeless as well. 126 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,840 It's a pretty broad definition at the federal level. 127 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:55,520 It includes people staying in shelters, people staying 128 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,880 in permanent supportive housing units. 129 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,160 It also includes people couch surfing. 130 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:04,720 But because those are notoriously hard to count, 131 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,640 usually it's just a count of how many individuals 132 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:12,520 are staying in publicly subsidized supportive housing, 133 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:14,880 like an emergency shelter, a transitional housing unit, 134 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:16,200 or a permanent supportive housing. 135 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:16,840 OK. 136 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:19,080 Let's go back really quickly though. 137 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,960 So you're saying that it's expanded from just the people 138 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,200 that were sleeping outside and essentially unsheltered 139 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,480 to also include people who were in shelters. 140 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,320 But then you mentioned couch surfers, 141 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,960 which for some people, if they were in California, 142 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,240 they might envision something quite different than what 143 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:41,000 we typically might think of for surfing in Washington state. 144 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,640 But either way, that's not what you mean. 145 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:45,640 So tell us what you mean by couch surfers. 146 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,760 Couch surfers, it's a colloquial term. 147 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,400 That is not a standard definition. 148 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:50,960 But we're just referring to people 149 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,680 who are living in what they'd call 150 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:56,120 transient housing situations. 151 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,360 So they are staying with a friend or a family member. 152 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,120 They do not have a home. 153 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,480 They aren't on the title or the lease. 154 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,240 Going from place to place maybe. 155 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:06,960 Sometimes. 156 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,080 So the strict federal definition, 157 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:10,840 it's really hard to count this with people. 158 00:06:10,840 --> 00:06:12,160 But the strict federal definition 159 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,640 is they don't stay in one place for more than 30 days. 160 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,520 So that's what this point in time is trying to capture then. 161 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,480 That's what this count is trying to capture. 162 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:22,640 People that are unsheltered might be sleeping outside 163 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:28,120 in a tent, in their car, on the street, whatever it may be. 164 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:32,080 People who are sheltered in some type of housing. 165 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:33,960 This doesn't include affordable housing. 166 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,320 This would be, this is actual shelters. 167 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,920 Yeah, well it also includes permanent supportive housing, 168 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:42,920 which is for people who are disabled 169 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,680 and can never live on their own, it's permanent rent assistance 170 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:46,560 essentially. 171 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,160 So they get counted in this too, even if they're in that housing? 172 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,560 Yep, in the sheltered homeless count. 173 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:53,880 The idea being if they didn't have a subsidy, 174 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:55,520 they would be homeless. 175 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:56,680 And then couch surfers. 176 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:56,960 Yes. 177 00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:58,360 So that's kind of the big categories. 178 00:06:58,360 --> 00:06:58,860 Right. 179 00:06:58,860 --> 00:07:01,360 And we're kind of getting into this expansion 180 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:04,760 of what the point in time count was supposed to be. 181 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:06,600 And as this expansion happened, it 182 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:12,200 became very clear nationwide that many, most jurisdictions 183 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:17,920 had absolutely no capacity and administrative capability 184 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,560 to do a one night census of their entire county. 185 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,600 Yeah, how would you pull that off? 186 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:24,560 Not well. 187 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:25,040 Yeah. 188 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:25,960 Yeah, is the answer. 189 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,060 And so the federal government expanded it at some point. 190 00:07:29,060 --> 00:07:32,160 They said you don't have to do it on the one night. 191 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,120 You have to do something on the one night 192 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:35,760 that is the bulk of the census. 193 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,200 You can actually count people, gather your data, 194 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,200 complete your census over that third week in January. 195 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:42,400 Over a week now. 196 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,360 Not really a point in time anymore. 197 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,760 So how is it actually done then? 198 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:51,240 So in Washington, which is what we're talking about today, 199 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:53,800 most counties have a housing coordinator. 200 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,920 That housing coordinator will plan this point in time count. 201 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,000 And every county does it differently. 202 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,880 Some counties literally go to places 203 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,920 they know unsheltered people are. 204 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:05,500 And they walk around with a clipboard 205 00:08:05,500 --> 00:08:07,560 and collect information from every unsheltered person 206 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:08,760 they're able to contact. 207 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,600 And they'll count people too if the people refuse information, 208 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,360 but they just won't record their demographics. 209 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:17,600 So when you say places where they know unsheltered people 210 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,020 are, so you're talking like maybe an emergency shelter. 211 00:08:20,020 --> 00:08:22,640 This time of year it could be a warming shelter. 212 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:23,680 That's a sheltered count. 213 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:25,480 And that actually happens automatically 214 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:27,840 because the service provider is bound by contract 215 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:31,600 if they receive public funding to turn that data over to. 216 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:32,680 So they keep track of that. 217 00:08:32,680 --> 00:08:34,060 So you're not talking about people 218 00:08:34,060 --> 00:08:35,920 that would be in a shelter of some kind. 219 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:36,960 Talking about people on the street. 220 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,320 So maybe an encampment. 221 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:39,280 Yep, encampments. 222 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:41,720 And like when I did this in Grace Harbor, 223 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,800 we would drive around and note there's 224 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:46,140 a motor home that's not plugged in right there that clearly 225 00:08:46,140 --> 00:08:47,240 has people living in it. 226 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:47,740 OK. 227 00:08:47,740 --> 00:08:48,600 Go knock on the door. 228 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,360 OK. 229 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:56,000 We knew places where kind of outside the cities, 230 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,480 there was like a private property owner with a lot 231 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,320 that he would let people camp in. 232 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:01,760 We'd go there. 233 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,680 There's obvious places downtown that everyone 234 00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:07,000 knows about where homeless people congregate. 235 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:07,840 We'd go there. 236 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:09,520 But that's really impracticable. 237 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,640 And when this was early on and everyone I think was bought in 238 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,340 and like this would be a good thing to have an annual census 239 00:09:16,340 --> 00:09:18,600 and a data point you can track over time. 240 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:23,040 But as time went on, just the impracticality 241 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,320 of doing this kind of count. 242 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:27,120 Not to mention the administrative burden. 243 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:30,400 Well, how do you even make sure it's accurate? 244 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:30,960 You don't. 245 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:31,560 It's not. 246 00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:34,560 How do you avoid double counting people? 247 00:09:34,560 --> 00:09:36,560 How do you not miss people? 248 00:09:36,560 --> 00:09:38,720 I mean, even if you're driving around, 249 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,080 you could go around the corner and then come back 250 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,040 around another corner. 251 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,520 And they could have been there two minutes ago. 252 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:45,520 And now they're gone. 253 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,920 And you've driven by and you don't see them. 254 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:48,840 Yes. 255 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:50,920 It just seems really unrealistic. 256 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:52,320 Yes, it's completely unrealistic. 257 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,200 And that becomes obvious if you do it for a number of years. 258 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,560 And it's not supposed to be a comprehensive census. 259 00:09:57,560 --> 00:10:00,320 It's supposed to be a point in time count, a data point 260 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:01,640 that you can track over time. 261 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:03,640 It's like a sample of the homeless population. 262 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:04,480 OK. 263 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:07,400 On that night, we were able to contact these people this year. 264 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,120 And we were able to contact 10 less people next year. 265 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,280 And the thing is that there are several funding sources that 266 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:14,360 are based off this number. 267 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:15,320 Well, that's what I was going to ask, 268 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:16,680 is what's the point of doing this? 269 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:17,760 Yeah, so there's. 270 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,360 Besides just tracking it, right? 271 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:24,840 So I guess tracking it helps you see the trend from year to year 272 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,880 and might be an indicator if you're making progress 273 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:32,000 in reducing homelessness or the unhoused in your community. 274 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:33,040 But that may not. 275 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,120 I mean, that's how do you know if you're. 276 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,960 How do you know that if your accounts aren't accurate? 277 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,440 But you said there's also funding tied 278 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,160 to these counts themselves. 279 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:44,640 Correct. 280 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:45,200 OK. 281 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:49,200 The best part is when for political reasons, 282 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:52,840 either the state of Washington or the federal government 283 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,520 changes the criteria of the difference between sheltered 284 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,400 and unsheltered to show purposely a decrease 285 00:10:58,400 --> 00:10:59,440 in the shelter population. 286 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,200 This happened in 2017. 287 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,480 And I don't know that we lost funding 288 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,160 because it's all proportional, right? 289 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:06,000 Everyone changed. 290 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,840 But you look on the year by year count and you see a decrease. 291 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,000 And anyone who worked in homelessness during that time 292 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:13,720 know that's a fabrication. 293 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,280 And so it's this for county housing coordinators, 294 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,480 it's just such a frustrating thing. 295 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,280 Because every year you have to take away time 296 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:27,080 where if you weren't doing this enormous lift to plan 297 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:28,680 this big census. 298 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:31,480 And in addition to the going out on the street, 299 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,200 we'll hold resource fairs. 300 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:37,160 We'll gather every social service, barbers, clothing 301 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,320 banks, any kind of service that would benefit 302 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:40,760 an unsheltered homeless person. 303 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:42,640 We'll find a central location and we'll 304 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:44,000 hold the resource fair. 305 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,320 And people who show up to the resource fair 306 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:46,560 get counted in the point in time count. 307 00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:47,800 And they get all these services. 308 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,640 You can sign people up for all the services 309 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:51,120 they need for the year right there. 310 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:52,680 Which is really convenient. 311 00:11:52,680 --> 00:11:55,080 But man, is it a lot to do. 312 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,640 And it's a lot to do. 313 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:00,240 How do you even, I mean it's not as if you can just advertise, 314 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:01,800 hey if you're homeless on a. 315 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:02,800 Oh yeah, we did. 316 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:03,320 Really? 317 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:04,520 Yep, annual point in time count. 318 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,520 Come down, get a free cell phone. 319 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:07,960 Did you hand out flyers? 320 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:08,560 Yep, flyers. 321 00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:11,040 And I mean they all have phones, Facebook posts. 322 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:12,920 You work with your local provider, 323 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,000 in Gray's Harbors case Coastal Community Action 324 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,880 Program, every community has kind 325 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:18,480 of a parallel organization. 326 00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:23,160 I know you from Kittitas County, that would have been, 327 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:24,440 help me remember the name. 328 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:24,960 Hope Source. 329 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,200 Hope Source, thank you. 330 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:27,440 Shout out to Hope Source. 331 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:27,800 Right. 332 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:29,520 If you're out there listening, we love you. 333 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:30,680 Yes. 334 00:12:30,680 --> 00:12:33,400 So these organizations, they know their clientele. 335 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,720 They know how to get word to them. 336 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:36,400 And they will. 337 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:38,760 And we had tremendous turnout to those. 338 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,920 But it would be from mid-November 339 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,400 through the day of the point in time count. 340 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,040 That would be the main point of my job 341 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:47,200 when I was at Gray's Harbor. 342 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,480 Which is taking time away from grant management of programs 343 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:51,880 that are actually serving people. 344 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:52,440 Right. 345 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,440 Development activities where I could be finding other funding 346 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:56,760 or doing planning. 347 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,920 And so instead of out there doing outreach, 348 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:00,920 doing direct services, you had to do this. 349 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:03,120 Yeah, we're checking this federal regulation box 350 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,840 that we know is not an accurate count. 351 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,880 And on top of that, Washington has 352 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,240 developed an incredible database system 353 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,920 to track homelessness called the Homelessness Management 354 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:16,920 Information System, HMIS. 355 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,360 And every publicly funded program in Washington State, 356 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,160 from an emergency shelter to a street outreach program 357 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,560 to a permanent supportive housing program, 358 00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:28,480 they have to put data into HMIS. 359 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,000 So we already know all of these people. 360 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,720 And we know in a time series data, 361 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,000 when they change programs, it's recorded. 362 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,920 When they obtain permanent housing 363 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:39,640 and are paying their own rent, it's recorded. 364 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,400 So this HMIS system that you're talking about 365 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:43,720 actually keeps track of. 366 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:45,560 It sounds to me, you didn't say this, 367 00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:49,000 but it sounds to me, say I'm a person experiencing 368 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:51,920 homelessness, I go in for services to an agency 369 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,400 that's funded by the state of Washington. 370 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,000 That agency now has an obligation 371 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,040 to capture my information and put me into this database. 372 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,960 And I suppose that information's going to follow me 373 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:05,560 if I go to this food bank or I go to that food bank 374 00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:09,400 or I go to maybe a church or a homeless shelter or whatever, 375 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:12,280 it's going to kind of log me in or at least make 376 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:14,760 a note of my presence at those places at different times? 377 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,000 So food banks don't do this. 378 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:17,840 Oh, they don't, okay. 379 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,480 Yep, some churches might, some faith-based programs. 380 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,680 Really, it's a place you'll stay the night. 381 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,400 Oh, okay, so a shelter of some kind. 382 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:26,720 Or case management. 383 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,160 Case management's also gonna. 384 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,000 Sure. 385 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:31,000 And so, but it's really good data. 386 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,680 It's better data than the point in time count. 387 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:33,640 Does it ever match up? 388 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,160 Have you ever taken the point in time count 389 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:36,000 and looked at the point in time count? 390 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:36,840 It never matches up. 391 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,200 How far off, okay, how far off is it? 392 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,240 So ballpark numbers here, 393 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:44,480 because I'm reaching back into my career a few years ago. 394 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:45,520 Oh, we're gonna hold you to this. 395 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,720 So we did a point in time count one year in Grace Harbor 396 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,240 that showed about 80, it was between 50 and 100 397 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:53,480 unsheltered people. 398 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:54,320 In Grace Harbor County. 399 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:55,280 In Grace Harbor County. 400 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,680 And it showed less than 400 total homeless people 401 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,560 in Grace Harbor, where we have over a thousand people 402 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,880 in HMIS that are currently accessing services. 403 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,080 So your point in time count was basically half. 404 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:10,160 Yeah, oh yes. 405 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:11,680 Of what your population actually is. 406 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,520 And we estimate, there's some portion of people, 407 00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,600 especially the couch surfing portion, 408 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:18,280 that's not reaching out for services. 409 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:19,400 So there's even more than that. 410 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,480 Yeah, we expect it's probably, 411 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,840 the point in time count that we did that year 412 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,320 probably counted 20% of the population of people 413 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,400 who are in unstable housing situations. 414 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,640 Wow, wow, that's pretty frustrating. 415 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:34,760 And it's frustrating that three months of your year, 416 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:36,480 that's the main thing you're working toward 417 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,640 when you know the count is unreliable. 418 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,320 It is just to check a regulatory box. 419 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:45,560 Interesting, well, we're not talking about this 420 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:46,380 for no reason. 421 00:15:46,380 --> 00:15:47,220 We aren't. 422 00:15:47,220 --> 00:15:49,080 Right, there's some changes being proposed this year 423 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:49,920 in the legislature. 424 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,600 So first, we get to the pandemic, right? 425 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:54,400 And the federal government during the pandemic 426 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,960 completely changed gears on this point in time count. 427 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:57,800 Right. 428 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,560 It used to be annual, they moved it to semi-annual. 429 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,120 Oh, so now we're doing it twice. 430 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:03,320 No, every other year. 431 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:04,240 Oh, every other year. 432 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:05,080 Yes. Okay. 433 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,240 And they moved it, I should say biennial, I guess. 434 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:08,080 Not semi-annual. 435 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:09,880 So they moved it to a biennial count, 436 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,200 and instead of it being statutory required date 437 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,920 that everyone knows when the date's coming, 438 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:17,440 HUD sends out a notice, 439 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,920 and then everyone gets their stuff in gear 440 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:20,840 and plans the count. 441 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,120 And they made the unsheltered count, 442 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:24,640 the part where you go out and census 443 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,280 every part of your community optional. 444 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,560 They changed a whole bunch of their regulations. 445 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:33,260 And Washington statute is still the statute 446 00:16:33,260 --> 00:16:37,720 from 2015 or 17 or whenever the last time it was updated. 447 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,760 So we went through the pandemic, 448 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:41,800 federal government has completely changed their approach 449 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,720 to this and Washington state statute hasn't been updated. 450 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,880 And we have to abide by the Washington statute 451 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:49,360 because it can be more stringent, 452 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,400 have more requirements than the federal statute, not less. 453 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,040 And as you know, have to sometimes a funny word 454 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,440 with federal or state regulations. 455 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,960 So I know that there are some counties, 456 00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:01,920 I won't name names here, 457 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,840 that have started abiding by the federal guidance 458 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:06,520 and not the state statute. 459 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,440 There's other counties who most small counties, 460 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,160 they just don't have a prosecutor's office 461 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,920 that's gonna come with a heavy interpretation 462 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,960 and say, we don't have to abide by the state statute anymore. 463 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:20,320 So all this to say, 464 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:24,560 we've worked with a few new members of the house, 465 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:28,340 Representative Zahn and Representative Thomas. 466 00:17:28,340 --> 00:17:33,080 And we've introduced a bill that aligns the state statute 467 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,080 with the current federal guidance. 468 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:37,840 This is House Bill 1899. 469 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:41,000 And so this bill got introduced today. 470 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,880 It would be a huge lift off of county housing coordinators, 471 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,600 especially in small communities, 472 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,400 who now will only have to do that housing point in time 473 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:52,840 count, homelessness point in time counting, excuse me, 474 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,280 when HUD sends out the notice to count. 475 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,000 Okay, so it aligns our requirements 476 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,200 with the federal requirements. 477 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,320 Okay, so let's just repeat that really quickly. 478 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:02,520 So you've got a bill, 479 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,600 you worked with Rep Zahn and Rep Thomas, 480 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:07,280 shout out to Rep Zahn and Rep Thomas, 481 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:08,800 thanks for your help on this one. 482 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,200 And the bill number is House Bill 1899. 483 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:12,040 That's correct. 484 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:13,640 And the bottom line with the bill is it aligns 485 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,000 our requirements at the state level 486 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,040 with the federal requirements. 487 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,440 And you think that will make it easier 488 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:20,880 for service providers to do this point in time count? 489 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,720 At the very least, it cuts our burden in half. 490 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,280 Okay, oh wow, that's a big, well, that's a big change. 491 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:27,180 Right, right. 492 00:18:27,180 --> 00:18:29,560 It's every other year instead of annually. 493 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,760 And it makes it so that when there's a federal change 494 00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,520 going forward, we don't have to change state statute 495 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:36,840 to get there. 496 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,680 The bill directs the local governments 497 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:41,680 to respond to the point in time count notice 498 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,440 of the Department of Housing and Urban Development 499 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:48,480 rather than have a state statutory count every so often. 500 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,120 Is it gonna make the count more accurate? 501 00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:52,080 No, it's not. 502 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,120 It's still not gonna make the count more accurate. 503 00:18:53,120 --> 00:18:55,880 No, but we're just beholden to some of the federal funding 504 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,800 that both the federal funding that flows directly 505 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,400 through counties occasionally, but mostly the federal funding 506 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,840 that flows through the state to counties, 507 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:06,520 it's this point in time count's a requirement. 508 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,280 So in order to access those funds, 509 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:09,800 you've gotta complete this work. 510 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:11,040 Like you said, check the box. 511 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:12,960 Correct, and some of the allocations 512 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:14,240 are based on that count. 513 00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:15,800 Oh, okay, okay, interesting. 514 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,580 Well, that's good stuff. 515 00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:18,880 Does the bill do anything else? 516 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,880 It also eliminates, there were some requirements early on 517 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:26,080 when we didn't know what this work was gonna be like 518 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,520 to do some reporting on the quality of the work being done. 519 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,120 There was a statute that requires this quality assessment 520 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,280 and then a language in the point in time count statute 521 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,920 that tied the point in time count to that requirement. 522 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,000 The requirement's been released, that's been taken out. 523 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,200 That's a small part of the bill. 524 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,240 There's been some technical cleanups, yes. 525 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:44,320 That's good. 526 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:48,480 So once again, House Bill 1899, it was just dropped today, 527 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:49,720 right? Correct. 528 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,480 So you don't have a hearing date or anything yet, 529 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:52,600 maybe hopefully next week? 530 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,240 We don't, I've talked to, we think it's gonna be referred 531 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,120 to House Housing Committee, of course, 532 00:19:57,120 --> 00:19:59,440 and I've talked to Chair Peterson about this 533 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,960 and it sounds like we're gonna have a hearing 534 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,280 when the bill gets referred. 535 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,120 Well, certainly our members can look out for the bill 536 00:20:06,120 --> 00:20:07,920 when it gets scheduled for a hearing. 537 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:10,680 If they're interested in taking part in that, 538 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,700 they can contact you directly via email 539 00:20:12,700 --> 00:20:14,020 or give you a call, is that right? 540 00:20:14,020 --> 00:20:14,860 That's right. 541 00:20:14,860 --> 00:20:17,480 Okay, well, it doesn't sound like it's gonna make 542 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,240 the count any more accurate, 543 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:22,880 but at least it'll make it easier on our agencies. 544 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,200 That'll save time, that'll save money, 545 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,040 they can get more direct services dollars down 546 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,080 to the people that need them, that need the assistance, 547 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:31,800 and they'll be meeting this requirement 548 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,080 for federal grant money just in an easier way. 549 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:37,800 That's right, and I think that on the problem 550 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,840 of the count being more accurate, 551 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:44,720 again, we have this HMIS data system that's very accurate 552 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,960 and a lot of our state funding uses that. 553 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,200 When your county puts, your county housing coordinator 554 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:54,680 creates an annual data report that reports 555 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,880 on the progress of your five-year plan, 556 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,760 they're using HMIS data, not the point in time count. 557 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,860 Sometimes they'll reference the point in time count, 558 00:21:01,860 --> 00:21:05,160 but this HMIS data really is the golden ticket 559 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,560 in terms of tracking the homelessness population, 560 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,020 but there's some portions of the unsheltered population 561 00:21:11,020 --> 00:21:13,880 that that misses because they're not accessing services, 562 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,520 and the good thing about introducing this bill 563 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,360 and the conversations I've had both with the representatives 564 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:21,600 that are sponsoring and also with other members 565 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:24,900 on the housing committee is kind of a recognition 566 00:21:24,900 --> 00:21:28,800 that this is a broken system and a little bit of a commitment 567 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:30,960 to do some work and try to come back 568 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:32,640 and improve that process. 569 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,040 So we'll see how that goes. 570 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,400 Yeah, well, hopefully you'll have some good luck 571 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,620 with your bill, good testimony at the hearing coming up 572 00:21:38,620 --> 00:21:41,360 whenever it gets scheduled, and we'll get this thing moving 573 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:44,320 through the system and all the way to the end game 574 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:45,520 at the end of April. 575 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,720 Thanks for coming by and chatting with us today, Curtis. 576 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,260 Really, really interesting stuff 577 00:21:51,260 --> 00:21:53,080 about the point in time count. 578 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,200 Hopefully you're gonna get out and be able to do 579 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,000 a little bit more fishing this weekend, maybe? 580 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:58,280 Oh, no, probably not. 581 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,360 Super Bowl Sunday, so I got some chicken wings to make. 582 00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:03,960 Priorities, I guess. 583 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,360 So where was that that you were going fishing again? 584 00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:11,300 Secret Spot, point B out by No Tellum Creek, is that right? 585 00:22:11,300 --> 00:22:13,880 Yes, No Tellum Creek, there you go. 586 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,000 All right, it's a steelhead time of year, isn't it? 587 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:17,840 It is, yeah. 588 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,520 How big are the steelhead? 589 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,220 Well, you know, it really varies. 590 00:22:22,220 --> 00:22:25,120 We think the ones we were catching last week, 591 00:22:25,120 --> 00:22:26,800 between five and eight pounds, you know? 592 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:27,640 That's not bad. 593 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:28,800 Not bad at all. 594 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,320 My biggest steelhead I've ever caught out there 595 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,000 is a big wild one off the Queets River is about 18 pounds. 596 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,000 Yeah, that's a big steely. 597 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:37,560 My dad was a guide. 598 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,120 He's seen several over 30 to the boat. 599 00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:41,200 That's a really big steely. 600 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:42,040 Yeah. 601 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:42,860 All right. 602 00:22:42,860 --> 00:22:44,920 Well, good fishing to you. 603 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,560 Hopefully it'll be a good game this weekend. 604 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:47,640 Thanks for coming by and chatting 605 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,360 about the point in time count. 606 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:50,180 We'll see you soon. 607 00:22:50,180 --> 00:22:51,020 Take care. 608 00:22:51,020 --> 00:22:51,860 Thanks, Paul. 609 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:55,160 Thanks for tuning in to County Connection. 610 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:56,920 Stay in the loop by subscribing to us 611 00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:58,680 through your preferred podcasting app 612 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,000 and following us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. 613 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,360 And don't forget to join the Hub, 614 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:05,560 your go-to source for the latest news and updates 615 00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,000 from the Washington State Association of Counties. 616 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:13,000 Until next time, stay connected and stay informed.