1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,880 I hope I didn't say anything that would make my daughter embarrassed. 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,080 No, I'm sure they know what it's like to have us as parents. 3 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:10,440 You're right. They do. Yeah. 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:13,160 Welcome to County Connection, 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,480 the official podcast of the Washington State Association of Counties, 6 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:20,360 where we dive into the legislative issues shaping the future of our communities 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,760 from budgets to public safety, infrastructure, to elections. 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:28,000 We'll break down what's happening in Olympia and how it impacts counties from 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,480 across the Evergreen State. Stay informed, 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,320 stay engaged and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39 counties. 11 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,400 All right. Welcome back everybody to episode two of the County Connection. 12 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:42,320 I'm Paul Jewell, 13 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,600 the government relations director for the Washington State Association of 14 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,840 Counties. Glad that you're with us. Hopefully this, 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,920 isn't your first time with us, but if it is, welcome to the podcast. 16 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,360 Here today I've got with me Brad Banks. 17 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,240 Brad's a policy consultant with the Washington State Association of Counties. 18 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:01,400 He's working really closely with us during this legislative session and really 19 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:02,600 for the last several months, 20 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:07,800 he's taken over a lot of the portfolio from former employee Juliana Rowe. 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,840 Good to have you with us, Brad. This is your second time on the podcast. 22 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,080 Welcome back. Yeah. Thanks so much, Paul. Really appreciate it. Yeah. 23 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,160 Big shoes to fill with Juliana, but, but happy to do it and happy to be kind of, 24 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,360 out there keeping the, keep my eye on all the public safety, human services, 25 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,360 behavioral health issues on behalf of the association. 26 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,520 Well, that is a huge task. It's a pretty good book of business. 27 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,480 You mentioned behavioral health, human services, public safety. I mean, 28 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,720 that includes all kinds of different things that counties have their hands in 29 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,160 and responsibilities for. What's going on in that world right now? Yeah. 30 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,560 I mean, it's great. I mean, and I would, I would argue not only is it, 31 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,160 is it pretty heavy on the policy side, but there's a lot of fiscal implications, 32 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:46,680 right? To county budgets and, 33 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,880 and just sort of the broader community systems that counties have to be engaged 34 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,840 in. So it's huge. Yeah. So there's a lot going on in that space. 35 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,560 And they all seem to intersect as well. I mean, that's the other thing, right? 36 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,760 I mean, there's so much of a movement these days to, 37 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:02,960 to put more and more emphasis on the intersect between behavioral health and 38 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,320 public safety and our criminal justice system, right? And, and how we, 39 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,040 how we try to get people more upstream before they, 40 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,360 before potentially they have that, 41 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,600 that unfortunate interaction with our law and justice system, right? 42 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:18,280 Because it's far cheaper, right? And ultimately better for the individual, 43 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,400 which really should be the goal. Absolutely. Well, 44 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:21,800 getting into that a little bit, 45 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:26,280 you wanted to talk specifically about a particular bill that has been introduced 46 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:29,720 in the first part of the session. And I think that was House Bill 1218. 47 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:31,040 Is that right? That's right. That's right. 48 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:36,040 So House Bill 1218 is a bit of a trailer bill from a couple of sessions ago, 49 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,960 really focused, it's part of the Trueblood lawsuit that that's, 50 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,480 the state has been sort of engaged in for a number of years and has been trying 51 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:46,920 to get in compliance with. 52 00:02:46,920 --> 00:02:51,920 This really has to do with when this started several years ago, 53 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:56,920 a backlog of individuals waiting for competency evaluations and restorations up 54 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:02,760 at Western state and in state hospitals. And that, 55 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:06,080 and that backlog really in some cases was pretty dramatic, right? 56 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,080 You had some folks waiting for an evaluation from the state, you know, 57 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,880 from DSHS or wherever, sometimes longer than if they had just been, 58 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,400 if their case had gone to trial, they'd been adjudicated, 59 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,880 if they'd have been found guilty and had served their sentence, right? 60 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:24,120 So it was really an unfortunate situation that the state found itself in. 61 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:25,880 Well, there was a big lawsuit about it, right? 62 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,240 It was, right. So this huge lawsuit came in place to sort of try to deal with 63 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,480 that, to motivate through fines, 64 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,720 some hefty fines to the state to sort of get them back in compliance. 65 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:39,000 And it's taken a number of years and really some significant investment at the 66 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:45,000 state level to really expand out the hospital bed capacity at the state level. 67 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:47,800 And for the first time, actually this year, 68 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:52,800 the state is in compliance as we stand now in terms of clearing out that backlog 69 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,680 and reducing the wait times for folks awaiting those competency evaluations and 70 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:58,720 restoration. So, 71 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,040 so let me get my, my arms wrapped around this a little bit. 72 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:07,040 So the problem was we had too many people basically in the system that needed to 73 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:11,120 be evaluated. That's right. These competency evaluations. 74 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:13,760 And what's a competency evaluation? Well, it's, 75 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:18,760 so when a person is arrested and brought in and then potentially charged for a 76 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,560 crime, and that could be anything from a misdemeanor up to a high level felony, 77 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,520 there's a process that can be initiated either through, by the prosecution, 78 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:31,160 although more likely it'll be probably initiated through the defense, 79 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:36,000 through the public defense or perhaps at the judicial level with the judge or 80 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,040 the court level rather with the judge really saying, um, 81 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,920 we're not clear if this individual, um, 82 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:48,240 is is is cognitively able to stand trial. Um, okay. Right. 83 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:49,600 And so are they, 84 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,960 are they competent and able to understand everything that's going on? 85 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:54,840 Maybe the defense is seeing some, 86 00:04:54,840 --> 00:04:56,960 some indications that there's something to be worried about. 87 00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:00,880 And so they'll petition the court to say, Hey, before, before we proceed, 88 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:05,320 it's our recommendation that my client receive a competency evaluation. Okay. 89 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:06,940 So this doesn't happen with every, 90 00:05:07,220 --> 00:05:09,660 every person that's arrested for a crime that might be charged. 91 00:05:10,100 --> 00:05:14,700 But in the, in cases where maybe someone is showing some cognitive impairment or 92 00:05:14,700 --> 00:05:18,060 maybe defense, the defense wants to make a, uh, 93 00:05:18,100 --> 00:05:23,100 use that as a potential defense for whatever charges being levied that they 94 00:05:23,540 --> 00:05:26,020 then go through this competency evaluation. 95 00:05:26,020 --> 00:05:29,860 You're saying that we basically had too many people kind of in that system 96 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:33,980 waiting for those evaluations and not enough ability. Is it a matter of, 97 00:05:33,980 --> 00:05:36,100 you said that the state has added beds. 98 00:05:36,100 --> 00:05:39,180 Was it a matter of having room in, uh, 99 00:05:39,540 --> 00:05:41,260 in mental health facilities, uh, 100 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:44,620 in state facilities in order to accommodate those people and actually get them 101 00:05:44,620 --> 00:05:47,900 from the jail to those facilities or, or what was kind of a hang up there? 102 00:05:47,900 --> 00:05:49,800 I think it was actually kind of a mix of things. 103 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,980 I think if you had gone back 10 or 15 years, you would say, you know, we, 104 00:05:54,260 --> 00:05:59,060 we didn't see as many of these types of cases or, or orders, right, 105 00:05:59,060 --> 00:06:00,140 coming from the justice system. 106 00:06:00,140 --> 00:06:03,580 I think that was really because there was sort of, you know, for, for someone to, 107 00:06:03,580 --> 00:06:08,420 sort of be deemed, you know, incompetent to stand trial or, or, um, 108 00:06:08,460 --> 00:06:11,340 having competency issues was much rarer, right? 109 00:06:11,980 --> 00:06:14,500 Was it just because there was less of it or was it less? 110 00:06:14,660 --> 00:06:17,300 I think it was less awareness, less understanding, um, 111 00:06:17,340 --> 00:06:20,380 less effort was being put in. I mean, whether, and I think, you know, 112 00:06:20,380 --> 00:06:24,060 I was talking to the prosecutors association, um, this week about this. I mean, 113 00:06:24,060 --> 00:06:28,420 I think there's just been a trend over the last decade or two in not only kind of 114 00:06:28,420 --> 00:06:32,140 identifying and understanding why people might be intersecting with the, 115 00:06:32,140 --> 00:06:35,020 with the criminal justice system and what may be the root cause of that. 116 00:06:35,740 --> 00:06:38,460 It may not necessarily always be out of malicious intent, right? 117 00:06:38,780 --> 00:06:41,780 It could be because they are experiencing a behavioral health crisis of some 118 00:06:41,780 --> 00:06:43,300 variety. And so I think as we just, as a, 119 00:06:43,540 --> 00:06:47,460 as a society have become more aware of that, I think the, the, 120 00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:52,140 the role of our criminal justice system has shifted and the levers that are now 121 00:06:52,140 --> 00:06:53,580 being pulled, uh, 122 00:06:53,620 --> 00:06:58,020 we've seen that become a more common approach to dealing with these types of 123 00:06:58,020 --> 00:07:01,220 individuals. And I do think it's both, right? I mean, I think if you're, if you're a, 124 00:07:01,460 --> 00:07:04,820 if you're a public defender and you see that type of behavior with your client, 125 00:07:04,860 --> 00:07:06,900 right? You certainly want to do that. 126 00:07:07,420 --> 00:07:10,460 But there's also a strategy component there, you know, potentially as well. 127 00:07:10,460 --> 00:07:12,180 And I actually don't mean that in a negative way. I mean, 128 00:07:12,180 --> 00:07:15,220 if you're trying to aggressively defend your client, which is their job, 129 00:07:15,700 --> 00:07:17,300 these are mechanisms to do that. 130 00:07:17,740 --> 00:07:22,100 John Adams used to say providing for a vigorous public defense for those who 131 00:07:22,100 --> 00:07:23,620 can't afford it. It's one of the cornerstones, 132 00:07:23,620 --> 00:07:27,580 one of the foundational cornerstones of our, of our institutions, uh, 133 00:07:27,620 --> 00:07:28,460 in the United States. 134 00:07:29,940 --> 00:07:30,980 It's exactly right. And I think, 135 00:07:31,100 --> 00:07:35,060 I think maybe where it started to get a little out of control was there became a 136 00:07:35,060 --> 00:07:38,860 perception that if you put somebody on a competency evaluation or, or, 137 00:07:38,860 --> 00:07:42,500 or ordered them for competency evaluation, that you were somehow, uh, 138 00:07:42,540 --> 00:07:44,660 that somehow that equated to treatment, right? 139 00:07:44,660 --> 00:07:47,260 And that you were moving them upstream into a treatment, 140 00:07:47,300 --> 00:07:49,940 almost like a pseudo diversion, right? In some sort of way, 141 00:07:49,940 --> 00:07:53,880 or like a pseudo jail diversion type of program when really that's not what it is 142 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,200 at all, right? They sort of go and they sit in a, 143 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,920 in a hospital and wait for, uh, you know, 144 00:07:59,920 --> 00:08:04,000 a representative from the SHS to come and evaluate their situation and report 145 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:04,840 back to the court. 146 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,320 And so I think that that period of time is what caused the backlog, right? 147 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,640 And then there was more understanding sort of, 148 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,320 but they weren't actually going to hospitals in many cases, right? 149 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,520 So many of them were sitting in prisons waiting because there wasn't room. 150 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,440 Right. And you said that in some cases they were actually sitting in those 151 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,600 prisons and those jails. Yes. I assume in county jails and many cases. 152 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:27,080 Yeah, both. Yeah. Yeah. 153 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:30,560 Longer than they would have even had to serve a sentence. 154 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,120 Had they just served a maximum sentence? Yeah. Yeah. 155 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,320 So you can see how a lawsuit could develop from that sort of a situation. 156 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,000 Yeah. It was pretty bad and obviously horrible for these individuals. And so, 157 00:08:40,560 --> 00:08:43,200 and extremely costly from the state perspective. 158 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:45,840 And so unjust. It seems like. 159 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:47,600 Exactly. Right. And so again, 160 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:50,520 I think what we're seeing is there's been an evolution in the way we think in 161 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,360 the way that our criminal justice system behaves, 162 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:56,760 how we've brought in the thinking of behavioral health and to try to, 163 00:08:57,080 --> 00:08:58,800 to try to modernize our system, 164 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,880 to have a more 21st century type of criminal justice system. 165 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,800 But we're not there yet. Right. And there's still room to grow. Okay. 166 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,480 So this bill has something to do with that situation. It does. So, 167 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,080 as I mentioned just a moment ago, 168 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,840 so for the first time since the lawsuit was initially filed. 169 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,240 And did you mention the name of the lawsuit? What was it called? You know, 170 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,120 I don't remember the name off the top of my head. It, it's basic. It was, 171 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,040 something with Trueblood. And, and let's just call it Trueblood. Yeah. 172 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,520 And there's Trueblood class members, for example. And those were those, 173 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,960 individuals who were part of that initial lawsuit who were, had been waiting. 174 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:37,120 Okay. For extended periods. So just for our, our listeners, 175 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,040 if they were to Google like Trueblood lawsuit, would it, would it, 176 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,600 would Washington state Trueblood lawsuit, it would pop right up. Okay. Yep. Okay. 177 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,280 So as we look at, um, 178 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:50,240 where the state sort of currently is, as I mentioned, we've, 179 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,680 we've cleared out that backlog. It's been great work to get that done, 180 00:09:53,680 --> 00:09:56,560 particularly at the state level, but with community partners and counties, 181 00:09:56,560 --> 00:09:59,800 and in particular, prosecuting attorneys, defenders, cities, you know, 182 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:01,920 city attorneys, et cetera, the courts, 183 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:06,240 the problem is a big part of how that got taken care of was not only, you know, 184 00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:09,880 effort in terms of, of addressing the needs of these, these individuals, 185 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:11,640 but also opening up additional beds. 186 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,400 So we were able to move people out of prisons who write or jails who are waiting 187 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,920 in those spaces and get them into state, into state hospital beds. 188 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,040 The problem is, or at least the perceived problem is that at the rate, 189 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,520 the historical rate in which these competency evaluation orders are, 190 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:30,040 are ordered, um, or restoration orders are coming through weeks, 191 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:34,320 the state is expecting that we'll have maxed out on our new capacity sometime by 192 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:38,400 20, 29, 20, uh, 20, 29, 20, 30. Okay. Um, 193 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:40,640 and so we'll be sort of back into our backlog. 194 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:44,440 So they solve the problem with these additional facilities. That's right. 195 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:48,640 They're getting people through this. I would say they, they treated the problem. 196 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:51,000 Okay. I'm not sure they solved it. Uh, and, and, 197 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,520 and really it's just a temporary solution. It is. Right. 198 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:58,120 So they're predicting that at the rate of, um, uh, referrals, 199 00:10:58,120 --> 00:10:58,960 I guess, 200 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,920 orders for these competency evaluations, um, and probably with, you know, 201 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:07,680 projections related to a growing population, et cetera, that within, 202 00:11:07,680 --> 00:11:10,880 would you say five or six years? Yeah, we'll be right kind of right back up, 203 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,200 right back, right back to where we were. And I think, 204 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,760 I think important to note that, you know, um, 205 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:21,000 part of that really is being driven by, um, misdemeanors, 206 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:21,680 right? There's a, 207 00:11:21,680 --> 00:11:25,600 there's a huge drive in this space that these are resulting from misdemeanor 208 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:26,200 charges. 209 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:30,040 And so there's a lot of emphasis being sort of paid attention to at the moment 210 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:35,000 around how can we start reducing these misdemeanor type orders or orders that 211 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,240 are related to somebody brought in on a misdemeanor charge? 212 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:38,680 Right now. Why is that significant? 213 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,040 Well, I think it's significant because that's the most common charge, right? 214 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,920 That a person will be brought in on is some sort of misdemeanor, right? 215 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,920 And that happens at the, at the city level. It happens at the county level. 216 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,760 It's, it's just much more frequent and you're much more likely to have somebody 217 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,000 picked up, you know, whatever it is, disturbing the peace or whatever it might be. 218 00:11:55,000 --> 00:12:00,080 Right. Trespassing, you know, uh, some, you know, having a, I mean, 219 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,080 and if someone's experiencing a behavioral health crisis, right, 220 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,640 that could manifest in a lot of ways that could manifest in a, 221 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,480 a way that's dangerous to them individually. 222 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:10,680 It could be manifest in their behavior being dangerous to others. Right. 223 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:14,960 And so however that might look, a lot of these folks that are brought in, 224 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,160 um, under these misdemeanor charges. 225 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:23,680 And then, you know, that's driving a lot of these, uh, referrals up in S and a 226 00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:28,800 big part of the problem, I think, is instead of trying to divert those people 227 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:33,000 at the time of arrest, right. And get them into some sort of community system, 228 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,440 because those services really don't exist at the level that they ought to, 229 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:42,120 um, they're ending up in this full process and, and moving up the system. 230 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,440 What kind of a community system, uh, 231 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:48,840 would you use to divert these types of misdemeanors away from say these 232 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,920 competency evaluations and, and more criminal proceedings? Yeah. I mean, 233 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:54,720 you know what, you say they don't exist. 234 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:56,080 Well, it's not that they don't exist. 235 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,440 I just, they just don't exist at the levels that would be necessary to really 236 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,960 see an impact in terms of holding the, to sort of, 237 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:03,560 if you think of it as, as a faucet, right, 238 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:05,440 sort of turning the faucet down a bit. 239 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,840 So the flow of competency evaluations that really do need and require a state 240 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:14,120 response versus those that could just be, um, sort of, 241 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:15,640 for lack of a better term, 242 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:19,240 diverted off into community resources and outpatient services. 243 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,480 Okay. So when I think of diversions, uh, 244 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,800 from just regular corporate proceedings, right. 245 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,000 Systems that are in place right now, I think of things like family court, 246 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:26,840 drug court. 247 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:28,400 Exactly. Those are the traditional models. 248 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:29,920 Right. So there's, there, 249 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,360 there's another model that, that, 250 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,640 that is currently operational in some places you're saying not. 251 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:38,800 Sure. Because not all of these, not all of these, um, 252 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:41,560 behavioral health needs are substance abuse based, for example. Right. 253 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:43,600 So they're not all drugs. So we're talking mental health. 254 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,120 We're talking, uh, developmental disabilities, right? 255 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:50,080 There could be a number of reasons as to why an individual could be classified in 256 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:55,080 that space. And so the desire then to have a robust set of types of services, 257 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,920 where, of diversion services that folks could be placed in, 258 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,440 that folks could be placed into. And that would be, 259 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,160 and I do want to emphasize it has to be that outpatient level, right? 260 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,080 There's a lot of inpatient services available at the state hospitals and 261 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,520 things like that. Okay. Again, that doesn't really solve the problem, right? 262 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,880 Because they have to be accessed through somebody in a state bed, 263 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,880 which is way, way, way more expensive. 264 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,640 So what you're talking about is somebody who potentially committed a crime, 265 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,000 uh, in the midst of some sort of cognitive, 266 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,120 some sort of behavioral issue, right? Some sort of behavioral health issue, 267 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,280 they may not have even really realized what they were doing. 268 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,080 That's right. The, the, the, the term that comes to mind, you know, 269 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,280 not to be non-politically correct, they were out of their mind. Right. Right. 270 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,360 I mean, the criminally insane is still the term, right? They had, 271 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,160 they didn't realize what was happening. They weren't thinking clearly. 272 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:44,280 They were having some sort of mental emergency, some sort of mental break. 273 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:45,080 That's right. Um, 274 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,680 and instead of treating that person like a criminal and sending them through the 275 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:52,680 system, realizing they had this cognitive issue and then trying to get them, uh, 276 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:57,600 this, um, evaluation that you were talking about, you're saying, let's find, let's, 277 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:01,200 let's build up our programs or we should be building up programs to divert those 278 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,560 to other community resources that really are equipped to handle them anyway. 279 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:06,640 That's exactly right. And I really want to emphasize though, 280 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,400 the, that this is really important in this misdemeanor space, right? 281 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:15,000 Where we have significant major crimes happening, right? Felony level type crimes. 282 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,440 This is a different conversation. Someone's actually injured. Right. Exactly. 283 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,240 And that becomes a different dynamic. But for a lot of these, 284 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,800 like we were talking about just disturbing the peace or indecent exposure or 285 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:26,280 something along those lines, right? 286 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,200 Those are the type of, I think issues that, or, 287 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,640 or types of charges that we really want to, that could, I think, 288 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:35,560 benefit if that individual could be diverted off. Yeah. 289 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,800 We're not talking major property crimes. Exactly. 290 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,840 We're not talking violent crimes. No. 291 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:44,320 And that's where county prosecutors often find themselves in this space, right? 292 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,320 It's more for those types of crimes. I mean, they usually aren't bringing, I mean, 293 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,920 your local county prosecutors usually not bringing a low level misdemeanor up. 294 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:53,480 You know, 295 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,680 it's usually because it's a major crime that is that there's been damage to, 296 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,000 you know, the people, individuals, society, whatever it is. 297 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,840 And they're bringing that on behalf of the state. Right. 298 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,040 And so that's a little different level of, of, of, 299 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,560 sort of criminal activity that we're talking about versus what I think we're 300 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,680 trying to get to here, which is that low level misdemeanor type activity that 301 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,160 really the damages are pretty minimal, right? 302 00:16:17,160 --> 00:16:20,040 Except we've got an individual that broke the law and we have to figure out how 303 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:23,560 to help them because they broke the law most likely because of some sort of 304 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:27,680 behavioral health condition. Okay. So I think we've, 305 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,960 it sounds like we've really identified what's happening on the ground. 306 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:31,240 Sure. 307 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:35,000 Problem is and what the state's trying to address with this bill. 308 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,600 I think it was house bill 1218. Yeah. So what does the bill actually do? 309 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,680 Yeah. The bill does a few things. I mean, like I mentioned, 310 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,600 it's a trailer bill to previous pieces of legislation in this space as the 311 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:49,320 states continue to try to, to solve this issue. I think where this bill, 312 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,560 really quickly when you say trailer bill, what do you mean by that? 313 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,680 Sorry. So a good call out there. I mean, 314 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,320 so there have been previous bills that have been introduced by the legislature 315 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,000 to deal with this true blood issue specifically. 316 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,960 This bill is what we would call a trailer in the sense that it comes after it 317 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,440 follows efforts that have already been made. 318 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,120 So it tries to build on efforts that have already been made in previous pieces 319 00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:13,160 of legislation. So at the risk of sounding too clever, 320 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:14,920 we could call this a true blood trailer. 321 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,520 We could call it a true blood trailer. 322 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:19,920 That was a very nerdy political. 323 00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:24,240 No, it's right there. Yeah. There's something a little Hollywood about that. 324 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,120 I don't know if we could go down that road. 325 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:30,120 Other policy staff all across Olympia will appreciate that. Yes, they will. 326 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:34,520 They will go ahead. So yeah. So I think as they are looking to, again, 327 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,800 I think this bill really is designed right now as we've really, like I said, 328 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,680 identified where the bulk of these referrals are coming from, 329 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,040 trying to get to the core of that and figure out why we're seeing this 330 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:46,920 continued rise. I mean, if you listen to the prime sponsor of this bill, 331 00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:51,000 Representative Farvar, she's, you know, been very, very 332 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,160 blatant in her comments around seeing a 250% increase sort of statewide 333 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,240 in terms of these referral levels. Right. Wow. And that's really, 334 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,240 that's really, that's a shocking number, right? I mean, that's a lot. 335 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,320 And so is that a real number? It is a real number. And I think, 336 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,400 I think the trick though is figuring out where, 337 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,920 what the breakdown of that number is, where are these referrals coming to, 338 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,760 where are they coming from rather? I think that's really the key. 339 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,160 Are they coming from, are they city referrals, right? 340 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,760 Are these originating at cities? Are they originating at counties? 341 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,000 Are these referrals being requested by public defenders, by prosecutor, 342 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,960 by county prosecutors? I think we do, we do. 343 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:29,320 And I think we're in the process right now, 344 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,680 as we've been working through this bill of trying to work with Eastern and 345 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,960 Western state hospitals to get a sense better of what those numbers look like. 346 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,240 So we can have a sense of actually, where is this, to use that Fawcett analogy, 347 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,840 right? Where is the flow really high currently? Right. 348 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,440 And whereas it may be a little less. Okay. So we are, 349 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,760 that's where the process of getting those numbers a little, 350 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:47,840 in a little more detail. 351 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,640 But I think that will give us a real good sense of actually what parts of the 352 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:57,160 system need to be interacted with and perhaps adjusted to help 353 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,800 figure out how to turn the dial down a bit. If that makes sense. 354 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,200 Sure. Yeah. Okay. So if, so, so we've got this. 355 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,520 So, right. So we've got this bill, right. 356 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:11,160 That's trying to call attention to the fact that we've got this huge sort of 357 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,680 pattern that still exists, right. In terms of referrals and competency orders, 358 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,240 the bill is looking at a way to sort of, 359 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,560 using sort of a classic carrot and stick model to 360 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,600 get the parties that would be involved in, in, in, in ordering those, 361 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:33,000 those evaluations to sort of tone it down for lack of a better term, right? 362 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:36,320 To really try to, you know, pump the brakes a little bit. And particularly, 363 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:37,120 like, again, like I say, 364 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:39,960 in that misdemeanor space where I think the bulk of this is being driven, 365 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,680 right. So to get to that, 366 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,040 one of the things this bill does is really try to penalize counties 367 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,600 as, as counties are sort of seen, right, 368 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:54,040 as the regional or the local justice systems in their areas, right, 369 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:59,040 is to penalize counties who aren't able to dial this, 370 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:00,960 dial this back down, right? 371 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:05,400 I think the challenge that we've had with the association in interacting with 372 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,840 the sponsors on this is there's a lot of actors in this space and the counties 373 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,200 have control. And when you say county, that's sort of a loaded term. 374 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,920 What do you mean by that? Right? Do you mean that in a geographic sense? 375 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,200 Do you mean that in a, in a proper sense that it's the county commissioners, 376 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,920 council, executive, you know, what do you mean when you say county? 377 00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:24,960 So we have had those conversations, but I think ultimately, 378 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,280 what we would say is, you know, you've at the association, listen, 379 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,120 we've got city attorneys, we've got prosecutors, we've got public defenders, 380 00:20:32,120 --> 00:20:35,280 we've got courts, all of them are playing a role in this. 381 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,400 All of them have the ability to order, recommend, 382 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,400 ask for a competency evaluation. Right? 383 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,400 And so until we get a better sense of what that looks like, 384 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,920 it feels a little premature to me that we would start penalizing counties 385 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,080 monetarily, 386 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,400 if they're not able to meet standards that the state is trying to set up. 387 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,720 And I think we have some questions about sort of where, 388 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,320 where these standards even are coming from in terms of numbers. 389 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,800 Okay. So let me try to wrap my head around this. 390 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,840 The state's looking at a system that was in crisis that they seem to figure 391 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:11,040 out a way to stabilize, but based on projections, I mean, 392 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:15,720 you said a 250% increase, it looks like it might be in crisis again, 393 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:17,200 within a few short years. That's right. 394 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,520 So they've got a bill here to try to deal with that. 395 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:22,320 And they're using what you call the classic carrot and stick model, 396 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:25,480 essentially the carrot being the reward. If you do good things, 397 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,840 you get the carrot. If you do bad things, you get the stick. 398 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,440 Right. And I don't think it's financial punishment. Yeah. Yeah. 399 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,480 And in this case, the stick is, is penalties. That's right. 400 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:38,240 And the penalties are designed to try to get counties essentially, 401 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,040 to tamp down the number of referrals in this kind of misdemeanor or 402 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:47,000 misdemeanant arena. That's right. I can understand, you know, 403 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,760 from a, from a purely dollars and cents kind of point of view, 404 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,360 I can understand why say penalties would be an attractive tool here to use, 405 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,640 but it seems to me that, that it's a more complex problem, 406 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,640 that it's not just a matter of, you know, 407 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,920 dollars necessarily. I mean, 408 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,880 what if you just have a population that you're dealing with in your 409 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:13,160 county that needs these services? You know, what, what if that's just the bottom line? 410 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:14,360 I think that is exactly right. 411 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:15,600 And that's really been the crux of our, 412 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:19,840 our concern with this bill is not the premise, right? The premise we agree with, 413 00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:24,080 we agree with the problem. We agree with, I mean, the numbers are what they are. 414 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,480 We're not debating that. What we, 415 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,520 what we as at the county association are concerned about is the fact that the 416 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:35,000 bill doesn't provide the solution in our view to the problem that we, 417 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,120 that we all agree is there. Right. And it's really, I think to your, 418 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:42,200 to what you were just trying to get at is that we need to better identify where, 419 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,120 where are these, where are the, 420 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,760 the contributing factors coming from who in this space is, 421 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,640 is causing this large increase in referrals. 422 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:57,280 And then what can we do collectively as a system to get everybody to try to row 423 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,360 in the same direction and try to, to, to use your words, sort of tamp this down. 424 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,440 And I think the reality is just penalizing counties financially. 425 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,760 Not only will that probably not be effective because counties again, don't, 426 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,320 county in terms of county proper, right? Does, 427 00:23:12,360 --> 00:23:17,360 don't have the ability to, to impact these, these independent entities. 428 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,120 Right. It's not, it's not like a board of county commissioners can tell the 429 00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:24,160 judge what to do. It's not like the judge or defense attorney. Yeah. Right. 430 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:28,080 You know, and, and so there's that. And then secondarily, the, the, 431 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,560 maybe more cynical, you know, 432 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:35,560 effect is it reduces resources at the local level that maybe that could be used 433 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,840 to better build out these programs and services that we've been talking around. 434 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,480 Yeah. There's some library there. Right. And so, so again, 435 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,280 we just feel like this is not the right approach and we do have some ideas and 436 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,440 some thoughts about what, what we could do. And we, we've been, we're, you know, 437 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:50,760 looking forward to continuing to work with representative Farvar and the 438 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:55,080 legislature and the governor's office on some of those ideas. Um, but, 439 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,520 but I think this bill as it sits now is one that we continue to struggle with. 440 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,560 Wow. I mean, I get, again, I get what they're trying to do. 441 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,720 I know the state has a problem. They've got to try to fix it, but you know, 442 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,120 I would hate to be someone who had a family member, right? 443 00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:12,680 Who was having a cognitive issue that really needed some sort of serious 444 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,480 evaluation, you know, and they get diverted just because of costs. That's right. 445 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,520 Right. And in the longterm, you know, 446 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,360 that might be a short-term fix for the county financially or for the state 447 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:24,440 system, but in the longterm, that's not the best solution. That's right. 448 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:27,520 For that family member or that loved one or that friend. 449 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:32,280 And it could actually turn into a much worse outcome for them because of that. 450 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,760 That's right. Yeah, that's right. It's a tough issue. It's a tough issue. 451 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,360 And it's one, I think everybody's trying to work, work from an earnest way. 452 00:24:39,360 --> 00:24:42,880 I don't think anybody's trying to, you know, um, uh, you know, 453 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,960 kind of cut anybody else off at the knees. But I think the reality is, 454 00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:47,760 everybody recognizes their problem. 455 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,400 No one is sort of collectively figured out how to, 456 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,960 how to bring all the stakeholders together to try to solve this. 457 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,080 And I think that we're working on it. We're trying. 458 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,440 Why do you think the state or at least a representative far of our, 459 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,440 who's proposed this bill has landed on this as the solution? 460 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,440 You know, it's interesting. We talked to her about this, honestly, 461 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,000 and she's been a great good faith partner in this. I want to stress that. 462 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,360 And, and in our, in our conversations with her, it's funny, 463 00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:11,640 we made this argument that, you know, we don't have control. 464 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:13,840 I think we just talked about, right? We don't have control about what these 465 00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,800 independent, you know, prosecutors or, or public defenders or judges may be 466 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:18,920 doing in this space. And she said, well, 467 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,920 the state could make the same arm be given, right? 468 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,880 We're being penalized through this lawsuit, hundreds of millions of dollars. 469 00:25:25,120 --> 00:25:28,840 And we also don't have control over the decisions that are being made at the 470 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,280 local level. And so I think there in some ways in the same boat, 471 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,520 we are in terms of trying to figure this out. 472 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:39,120 I think where she is hoping to get to this is to continue to sort of raise 473 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:43,080 awareness that we have to dig in more and we all need to realize that we've got 474 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,440 we've got a stake in this and that if we don't try to address this as a system, 475 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:48,280 and that is a system, 476 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,480 including from the state right down to the, 477 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,640 to the local level and everything that comes in between that, 478 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,920 then we're probably not going to get where we want on this. But, 479 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,280 but I do think it's going to take a lot more work to get there. 480 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:04,240 Why aren't communities investing in those diversion programs in those 481 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:08,240 community supports that are needed to support those diversion programs at the 482 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,960 level that's really needed to drive this problem to the level that we need to 483 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:13,960 drive this problem? 484 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,640 Well, I was going to say drive the problem down, 485 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,360 but I guess that's not the right word, but certainly, you know, 486 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:23,120 decrease the trajectory of, of, geez increase. 487 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,840 Yeah. I mean, I think there's, I think, you know, 488 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:28,200 that's a complicated question, I think. And I think there's, 489 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,280 there's some, maybe some top level answers that I would give that would say, 490 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,920 you know, first of all, it takes a lot of funding, right? These are expensive, 491 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,760 they're expensive programs. They're not as expensive as, as state hospitals, 492 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,680 right? And investing in state hospital beds and state facilities, 493 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:45,400 has really put its focus there. And so we've been challenged by the fact that the 494 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,000 state has made a priority of building those facilities and building those beds 495 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,520 because they needed to get out from underneath that backlog, right? 496 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:55,200 But that's really been to the detriment of investments in the community system 497 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:56,200 in this space, right? 498 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,520 And so we would like to see some new priority from the legislature and from the 499 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:04,280 state in investing in these local diversion programs, which really do, 500 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,600 I think are going to be the answer if we want to solve this ultimately. 501 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,800 And it's not that the state hasn't tried to do that. I think it has, 502 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,280 it's just been stuck between having to prioritize. 503 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,800 And I think the backlog was the priority. So we went down that road. 504 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,080 And in the meantime, our community system has continued to struggle to keep up. 505 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,400 So I think that's one part of it. 506 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,520 I think the other part of it is these are complicated individuals to serve. 507 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,440 And so you have to have the right type of services with the right type of 508 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,800 providers. And depending on where you live and what county you're in, 509 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,160 it can be difficult to have that, the right amount of providers. 510 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,960 Some counties struggle with none and just because of the nature of the geography. 511 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,040 So well, these providers need a certain amount of clientele in order to survive. 512 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:44,720 And if you're in a rural area and there's less population there, 513 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:45,800 you're less likely to have. 514 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,680 That's exactly right. So yeah, so the, I mean, there's a workforce challenge. 515 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,800 There's, there's a funding challenge. And there's just a, I think, 516 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,360 just an overall increase in the need for these types of services that it's, 517 00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,040 the system has just not been able to keep up with. 518 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,120 Well, fascinating problem, Brad, 519 00:28:01,120 --> 00:28:06,120 thanks for taking a deep dive on that bill and on that issue. 520 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,680 I'm sure there's lots of other things going on in your policy areas. 521 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,120 Hopefully we can have you back. 522 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,040 We'd love to, I would love to, you know, 523 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,560 I'm sure we'll have more times to give updates as this bill, you know, 524 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,120 kind of moves through the process and where we go with our negotiations. 525 00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:22,360 But also, yeah, there's a lot more going on in the public safety space. 526 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:25,760 So not only that, we have a behavioral health priority this year. 527 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,560 We do, which is very exciting. 528 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:27,840 You know, 529 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,560 and I look forward to talking about that with you in future podcasts. 530 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:32,280 In fact, we've got some exciting news. We look, 531 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,000 we hope to see our bill drop next week. 532 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:38,120 I don't know how that works with the time of these podcasts dropping, but yeah, 533 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:39,800 it would be, it would be next week. 534 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,600 And I think actually there'll be a really interesting intersect between what 535 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,480 we're trying to do with our Wasack behavioral health priority and the, 536 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,960 and the work that we've just talked about in building up the community level 537 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,000 services in this type of space. Yeah, that sounds great. Thanks, Brad. 538 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,960 We look forward to chatting about that then real soon with you. 539 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,880 Thanks a lot, Paul. Appreciate it. All right. Take care. 540 00:28:56,880 --> 00:29:01,880 Thanks for tuning in to County Connection. 541 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,640 Stay in the loop by subscribing to us through your preferred podcasting app 542 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,760 and following us on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. 543 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,440 And don't forget to join the hub, 544 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,600 your go-to source for the latest news and updates from the Washington State 545 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:27,240 Association of Counties until next time, stay connected and stay informed.