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There's no ghost. He's still with us.

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You have to, you have to, obviously,

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obviously you don't understand how spirits work.

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Welcome to County Connection,

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the official podcast of the Washington State Association of Counties,

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where we dive into the legislative issues shaping the future of our communities.

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From budgets to public safety, infrastructure to elections,

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we'll break down what's happening in Olympia and how it impacts counties from

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across the Evergreen State. Stay informed, stay engaged,

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and join us as we amplify the voice of Washington's 39 counties.

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Okay. Welcome back everybody to our first episode of the County Connection

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podcast. I'm Paul Jewell.

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I'm hosting the podcast as the government relations director with the Washington

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State Association of Counties. I'm here with Curtis Steinauer.

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Curtis is a policy coordinator with WSAC.

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He's handling homelessness and housing issues for us this year,

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as well as building and permitting.

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Good to see you, Curtis. Thanks for joining us.

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Yeah. Thanks Paul. Glad to be here.

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So Curtis, you started out with WSAC a couple of years ago as a policy analyst.

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You were doing some research and some other work.

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You were working a lot with kind of the human services and law and justice area,

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but you've got an expanded role this year and you're going to do a lot more.

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You're going to take a lot more active role with the association,

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do an advocacy work up at the legislature. Tell us a little bit about that.

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Yeah. So like you said,

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I've spent the last two years as a policy analyst, mostly supporting Julianna Rowe

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in human services and law and justice issues.

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This year I'm taking the lead on building and permitting bills and on

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homeless housing bills specifically.

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We have another staff member or contractor rather named Kelsey Holst.

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It's taking the lead on land use issues, but I'm backing her up as well.

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And yeah, just a lot more engaged and working directly with legislators for the

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first time. So it's a big step and I'm excited for the new role.

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Yeah. Well, we're glad you're here, Curtis, and we're excited to have you.

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And we certainly can use the help here with the policy team.

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And you're not the only one that's kind of given an expanded role this year.

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We've got quite a few new team members.

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So it's got a lot of different look and a lot of different personality.

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And the one thing you can always count on here in Olympia is change.

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And that's true here at WSAC too. So welcome.

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Speaking of change, you know, there's,

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there's a ton going on at the legislature today's inauguration day.

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I think I've said that in every intro so far.

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I know you're going to the ball tonight with the rest of the team.

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That's right. Yeah. So we're going to see you there.

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I think I'm the only one wearing a tux too, which, you know, a little bit of a,

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you know, slight to the rest of the team, but

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a slight to the rest of the team.

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Do you mean you're going to you're going to be the best dress?

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Is that what you're thinking?

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You know, unintentionally, but yes, I think that's the rest of us.

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That's for sure. Yeah. I'll be hanging out with the riff raff.

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Well, hopefully you won't have to slum it too much at the gubernatorial ball.

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So well, before we get into other things,

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I wanted to ask you kind of what you think are going to be the big topics

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this year in Olympia around housing and homelessness and building and permitting.

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What are you expecting to be working on?

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What are you hearing?

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Legislators are going to, you know, put a lot of effort behind.

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Yeah. Well, in terms of what legislators are putting a lot of effort behind,

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I think we've already seen some bills come out and I think we'll continue

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to see legislation that attempts to change

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local government authority around land use planning and building permitting

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in order to allow more affordable housing or incentivize more affordable housing

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or just make it, you know, a more permissible building environment.

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Obviously, counties have concerns with most of those bills,

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so we want to make sure that local controls are retained

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and that the bill is affecting the right scope.

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For instance, a lot of these bills are really intended to impact

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the city's authority over these projects and counties are getting looped

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into these bills and we're working to provide feedback to legislators

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to make sure they're doing what the bill thinks it does and not affecting

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our ability to control zoning in the unincorporated area

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or building and permitting in those areas.

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Yeah, great. So that's the housing area.

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Are you expecting any kind of big changes in the homelessness arena?

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Yeah. So the biggest thing with homelessness this session

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is just maintaining funding and service levels.

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The governor's budget that came out in November, while it was

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Governor Inslee's budget and he's no longer in office,

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we expect to see some more things as the budgets get put together

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later in the session where it's a tough revenue year.

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The legislature is looking for ways to make cuts and reduce spending

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and programs like rent assistance and

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housing programs in counties that are on the chopping block.

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And we expect to see some attempt to lower funding levels.

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In addition to the budget situation with that housing funding,

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counties are facing, as they have for the last couple of years,

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a shortfall on local document recording fees

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due to a relatively depressed housing market from the last decade.

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And the last couple of years, the legislature has been good about funding

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a kind of bridge funding for that local document recording fee

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shortfall to backfill and keep current service levels in counties.

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And we expect that to be a harder conversation this session.

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So a lot of my effort around the homeless housing programs this year

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is going to be around ensuring that to the extent possible,

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we maintain funding and service levels in county homeless housing programs.

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Yeah, you know, when times get tough and those shortfalls kind of appear,

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the programs, you know, the grant programs, especially

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they kind of rise to the top as far as potential low hanging fruit. Right.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And protecting those dollars that flow to the communities

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and provide direct services to the people who really need them,

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especially with the homelessness crisis that we've got going on.

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It's got to be a major focus for for you and for some of the other groups

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that you represent here at WSAC. Absolutely.

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I think we've talked about, Paul, that, you know,

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being the stage of my career, it is this is my first cycle ever

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where it's not an expansionary budget, where we don't see

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extra revenue that we can take advantage of for new programs.

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It's the first time I've had to play defense, really,

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with these homeless housing funds.

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And yeah, there's been a ton of growth, right? Over the last. Right.

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Man, probably the last decade.

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There's I'll bet you it's probably no comparison if you look at,

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you know, what we were spending on homelessness services

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and housing programs 10 years ago to what we are today.

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Yeah, I mean, a hundredfold increase, probably. Yeah.

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And so so it's been interesting for me because there's

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there's lots of messaging when it comes to pass through entitlements,

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things like Social Security, Medicaid programs.

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You know, Governor Ferguson's letter that he put out about the budget

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promises to protect those entitlements.

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And so one thing we're working to do is make sure that legislators are aware

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that those programs and the funding for those programs,

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it's rental assistance to vulnerable people.

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By and large, and you know, that is an entitlement

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the same way a Social Security check is.

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And just kind of making that case and holding the governor's office

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in the legislature to their value of protecting those types of funds.

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Why do you think rental assistance is so important?

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Well, you know, you drive through any urban area in the state

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and you see that we have a homeless housing crisis, right?

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You see people living in a community that's not really

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people living indigent on the street.

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You see people in a bad way.

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And in a lot of communities, that problem would be a lot worse

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if you didn't have that subsidy funding to take advantage of open units

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for people who couldn't afford them themselves.

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Besides that, it is it is the source of funding

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that's preventing more vulnerable people from entering this cycle

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that you often see in the homeless community, where someone who maybe

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had a one time hardship, it spirals out of control and it becomes

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a years long hardship once they enter the homelessness community.

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And it's so much harder to get back on their feet, to get a job,

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to reenter society.

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And rental assistance gives them a roof over their head,

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gives them a safe place to kind of get their life back together.

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And for some people, it can really be the difference between being a,

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you know, problem that counties have to address.

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They have that responsibility and statute being that person could be a problem

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that counties have to address for the next decade.

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Or they could be someone who just needs six months of rental assistance

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to get back on their feet.

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So rental assistance can be that saving grace, I guess,

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for folks that actually prevents homelessness in many cases.

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Absolutely. And I think the one thing you got to say is that,

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you know, homelessness is a housing problem and that rental assistance

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is only as good as the housing stock in the community.

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So you can use that rental assistance to get people into homes

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when they can't afford them, but you can also use it to keep them from

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basically getting evicted for non-payment of rent.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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For a lot of the families in Washington state, I mean,

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the vast majority, I think it's still the majority,

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don't have enough savings where, you know, even a thousand dollar

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unexpected expense doesn't hurt financially to the point where it can

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actually create a situation where they may not be able to pay their regular

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monthly bills and could find themselves kind of in that cycle that you're

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talking about that just takes it could take several months to get out of.

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And so already get back on their feet and get that savings back in the bank

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so that they have that emergency fund.

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And so that rental assistance can really help.

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Yeah. And I, you know, prior to my time at Wasack, I was housing coordinator

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in Grace Harbor County. And we saw many times this scenario that you

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walk through here where you have a family that maybe needs a few months

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to get back on their feet and the rental assistance provide them with a safe place.

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We saw many times families who weren't able to access that rental assistance,

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who weren't able to access that rental assistance, they, you know, become homeless.

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And now they're in a situation where they're living indigent on the street

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with children, often in a vehicle, sometimes in a camp.

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And it is never long before, rightfully, the state steps in and takes custody

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of their children because their children aren't in a safe place.

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And then they, when they're living in this indigent place and they have this crisis

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with their family and with their home, it's hard to keep a job.

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It's hard to get a job if they don't have one.

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And you can see how these things can quickly spiral.

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Yeah, they spiral. And then you're then you're kind of in the system.

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And then it's really hard to get out of the system.

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So that rental assistance can really serve as that stopgap, right?

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To prevent that from kind of hitting that tipping point.

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Absolutely. For a lot of Washington families. OK.

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Well, it's good to know. So so that that's something that we'll be looking at,

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trying to protect as we move forward.

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I've talked, you know, with several other of our team members already about the 10

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to 12 billion dollar deficit. I mean, there's there's a lot of concern

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about different programs and a lot of progress that's been made over the last

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several years and how, you know, things might be affected.

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It'd be really interesting to see as this legislative session kind of unfolds,

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kind of what the priorities are of the legislature and of the new administration.

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You know, there's there was a big focus.

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I was just talking with Brad a few minutes ago on behavioral health issues,

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because that was a major focus of the of the Inslee administration

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for really the entire time, all 12 years that he was in office.

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And and this issue that we're talking about right now with homelessness and housing,

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it's actually gotten a lot worse

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from start to finish with the Inslee administration,

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even with more and more and more and more resources.

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As you look ahead, thinking about the Ferguson administration,

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are you hearing anything new or innovative or exciting coming out of

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kind of, you know, their leadership that you think has some potential

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that we might see some traction on even this year?

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Yeah, well, I'll suspend

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using the descriptors innovative or exciting.

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But we have seen a change in focus in the Ferguson administration

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and that the Inslee administration really prioritized

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the entire continuum of services from emergency shelter to right of way programs

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and outreach to transitional housing and rental assistance to affordable housing.

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And we haven't heard that from the Ferguson administration in these early days.

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We've heard a huge focus on the end of that spectrum, the affordable housing stock.

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And we have heard almost radio silence.

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And my colleagues at the Department of Commerce and Low Income Housing Alliance

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have substantiated that when I talk to them.

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It's all about building, all about, you know, capital funding for affordable housing.

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And we have just haven't heard what their strategy is around homeless housing yet.

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That's not necessarily a bad thing.

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Like we've talked many times that supply and demand

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are the things driving the housing crisis.

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Yeah, in many ways, it's just pure economics.

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Exactly. We have we have too many people and not enough homes.

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And so that creates demand that drives the price up to the point where it's really,

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in many cases, unaffordable for a lot of Washingtonians

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that it wasn't unaffordable for in the past.

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And that's not just the homeownership market.

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That's the rental market, too. Right.

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Some people even think that, you know, rental vouchers can serve as,

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you know, part of the problem there if you have too much of that in the marketplace

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and driving those rentals up. So it really, really is.

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I mean, at the end of the day, you know, you can talk about the continuum of care.

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And that's really important to keep people out of or help people

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who are kind of in that spiral that you're talking about.

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But bottom line is we got to have more housing.

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Got to have more houses.

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And I think where we're at is we we're willing to entertain new strategies

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to approach the situation.

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Like I said, it's gotten much worse through Governor Inslee's tenure.

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And so I think we're excited to hear about new strategies

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and a new approach from a new administration.

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I think the challenge for us isn't necessarily insisting

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that things continue to be done as we've done them,

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but that we don't get into a place where we throw the baby out with the bathwater.

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And we have a situation where people right now who are only housed

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because of subsidy and are not contributing to the unsheltered homeless population

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because they're in a county program right now that's keeping them inside.

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We don't want to see those people return to the streets

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or go to the streets for the first time.

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You know, so during this transition period, where if we are pivoting to a new strategy,

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we want to make sure we don't inadvertently make the problem worse

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by causing a lot of returns to homelessness

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who are currently sheltered through a county housing program.

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Interesting. OK. Well, that's good stuff, Curtis.

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I'm glad that, you know, you're keeping track of what's going on.

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Sounds like there's going to be a lot to talk about this session

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as we, you know, dive into housing and homelessness

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and we look at building and permitting.

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I know I've been watching the bills.

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There's already a lot of proposals out there.

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It's day three of legislative session.

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How are you holding up so far?

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I told several people today,

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if you had not let me look at a clock or a calendar since session started

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and you told me it was day three, I would not believe you.

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It is, it's, you know, drinking from a fire hose here.

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Well, it's definitely been a fast start this year already.

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I can tell you that as a bit of a veteran of legislative sessions,

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this one is a little bit more intense than I've seen in the past for long sessions.

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But you just never know. Every session is different.

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There's always a surprise.

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There's always a surprise waiting for you or there's not.

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It just kind of depends what, you know, as we kind of wrap up here,

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you know, it is day three.

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You said it's like drinking like, you know, like drinking from a fire hose.

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I think a lot of our county commissioners can relate to that.

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But what's if you had to pick out one thing you were super looking forward to

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this session, what would it be?

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One thing I'm super looking forward to this session.

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Well, in addition to my role with Homeless Assistant Housing

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and apologize for the last minute issue pivot here at the end of the talk,

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but I'm supporting our executive director, Derek Young, in the public defense issue,

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which is a top priority for counties.

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And I think we this is an issue that's been around for decades, you know,

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but I think there's more momentum behind it this session than there has been in a long time.

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And I think I want to see what we can get to.

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But I'm very optimistic that we emerge with a better outcome for counties than we've had before.

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I don't want to promise anything or say that we'll be successful completely in our goal.

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But, you know, with we have the Office of Public Defense,

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the Defenders Association and counties all aligned on this issue for the first time

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I've ever been involved.

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So, you know, optimistic on that issue and hopeful for what we can accomplish.

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Yeah, well, that that would be that would be amazing, right?

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That that would be that would be a big change for counties and certainly a benefit for our members.

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Well, Curtis, thanks for joining us.

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Thanks for coming on for our first episode of the County Connections podcast.

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We're going to have a lot more of these this year and a lot more opportunities.

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And we'll be chatting with you, I'm sure, pretty often.

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All right. Thanks, Paul. All right. We'll see you soon.