WEBVTT 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.740 Have you ever seen a picture so striking it just 00:00:02.740 --> 00:00:05.120 sticks with you? Oh, yeah, tons of them. Well, 00:00:05.219 --> 00:00:07.259 Bill Moyers was talking about this NASA picture. 00:00:07.379 --> 00:00:10.580 Mm -hmm. You know, it's this picture of a supernova 00:00:10.580 --> 00:00:13.140 remnant. Mm -hmm. So, you know, what's left over 00:00:13.140 --> 00:00:16.239 after a star explodes? Right. And thousands of 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:18.420 light years away, too. Wow. He said it looks 00:00:18.420 --> 00:00:22.339 like a giant hand just reaching out across space. 00:00:22.579 --> 00:00:25.980 Huh. and get this, he mentioned that this happened 00:00:25.980 --> 00:00:29.280 way back when humans were still figuring out 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:32.600 how to use rocks as tools. Really? I know, right? 00:00:32.740 --> 00:00:35.560 Wow. So think about that for a second. These 00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:39.920 cosmic events are unfolding over just unimaginable 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:42.000 stretches of time. That's incredible. While our 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:44.420 ancestors were just starting to scratch the surface 00:00:44.420 --> 00:00:46.979 of technology. That's wild. It's mind blowing. 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:49.320 It really is. It really puts things in perspective, 00:00:49.380 --> 00:00:51.200 doesn't it? It really does. When you think about 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:53.679 these cosmic events that occurred, you know, 00:00:53.899 --> 00:00:56.100 millennia before we even started writing history. 00:00:56.119 --> 00:00:58.740 Right. And the fact that they still have visible 00:00:58.740 --> 00:01:02.560 consequences today that we can observe and photograph. 00:01:02.820 --> 00:01:06.739 It's a powerful reminder of just how vast the 00:01:06.739 --> 00:01:08.420 universe is. And that's what we're going to be 00:01:08.420 --> 00:01:10.420 diving into today. Oh, this is going to be good. 00:01:10.519 --> 00:01:13.299 We're unpacking a conversation. OK. Between Bill 00:01:13.299 --> 00:01:16.019 Moyers and the one and only Neil deGrasse Tyson. 00:01:16.250 --> 00:01:19.450 Amazing. And we've got excerpts where they explore 00:01:19.450 --> 00:01:23.049 some truly mind -bending ideas. I bet. Like dark 00:01:23.049 --> 00:01:26.430 matter. Yeah. And the possibility of multiple 00:01:26.430 --> 00:01:30.150 universes. Oh. And even that like ongoing debate 00:01:30.150 --> 00:01:32.689 about science and faith. Oh, that's interesting. 00:01:32.930 --> 00:01:35.769 So our mission. What is it? Is to really extract 00:01:35.769 --> 00:01:39.609 these captivating nuggets of knowledge. I love 00:01:39.609 --> 00:01:42.090 them. There's aha moments that broaden your understanding. 00:01:42.109 --> 00:01:44.840 Right. Without. feeling like you're drowning 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:47.079 in astrophysics. Makes sense. Like we want to 00:01:47.079 --> 00:01:49.760 keep it light and fun. Exactly. But still really 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:51.459 dive deep. Yeah. So it's important to know that 00:01:51.459 --> 00:01:54.420 even at the very forefront of scientific exploration, 00:01:55.200 --> 00:01:58.980 there are still these profound fundamental mysteries 00:01:58.980 --> 00:02:02.319 that remain. Oh, for sure. So right at the beginning 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:04.989 of their conversation, Tyson touches on dark 00:02:04.989 --> 00:02:08.409 energy. Oh, yeah mysterious force that's causing 00:02:08.409 --> 00:02:11.090 the expansion of the universe to speed up right 00:02:11.090 --> 00:02:14.789 and dark matter this unseen Gravitational influence 00:02:14.789 --> 00:02:17.310 that we just we can't directly observe. These 00:02:17.310 --> 00:02:19.330 are the big questions that scientists are still 00:02:19.330 --> 00:02:21.849 actively wrestling with Fascinating. So let's 00:02:21.849 --> 00:02:24.210 dig into dark matter. Okay, let's do it. Tyson 00:02:24.210 --> 00:02:26.770 described how it's visualized in his planetarium 00:02:26.770 --> 00:02:30.219 show. Oh cool And so forget about bright shiny 00:02:30.219 --> 00:02:32.419 stuff that we can see. Okay. He's talking about 00:02:32.419 --> 00:02:35.219 these dark regions that have like a stronger 00:02:35.219 --> 00:02:38.439 gravitational pull. Okay. And these regions are 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:40.580 actually pulling the visible matter towards them. 00:02:41.620 --> 00:02:46.060 Oh, wow. And he likened it to like a web work 00:02:46.060 --> 00:02:50.219 that has this almost organic feel. Interesting. 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:54.580 Like a map of connections in a brain. Like a 00:02:54.580 --> 00:02:57.080 neurosynaptic map? Yeah, exactly. That's a pretty 00:02:57.080 --> 00:02:59.479 striking image. It really is. But how do we even 00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:02.080 know this dark matter exists if we can't see 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:04.979 it directly? Exactly. It's a great question. 00:03:05.060 --> 00:03:09.060 It is. So as Tyson explains, our computer simulations 00:03:09.060 --> 00:03:12.020 of the universe, which are based on all the physics 00:03:12.020 --> 00:03:15.900 we understand, they seriously can't reproduce 00:03:15.900 --> 00:03:19.229 the large scale structure that we observe. The 00:03:19.229 --> 00:03:23.030 way galaxies cluster together and form these 00:03:23.030 --> 00:03:27.530 massive filaments across the cosmos. Unless we 00:03:27.530 --> 00:03:30.150 include this extra gravitational force in the 00:03:30.150 --> 00:03:33.229 calculations. Interesting. It's like we're missing 00:03:33.229 --> 00:03:35.789 a key ingredient. Like a recipe that's not coming 00:03:35.789 --> 00:03:37.569 out right. Exactly. Because we don't have all 00:03:37.569 --> 00:03:40.669 the ingredients. Right. That's a great way to 00:03:40.669 --> 00:03:43.370 think about it. So everything we see, all the 00:03:43.370 --> 00:03:46.659 stars and galaxies. Yeah. It's only a tiny fraction 00:03:46.659 --> 00:03:50.039 of the universe's total mass. Oh, wow. In dark 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:53.199 matter. Yeah? It's like the scaffolding that's 00:03:53.199 --> 00:03:55.500 holding it all together. I see. It's completely 00:03:55.500 --> 00:03:57.960 changing our picture of what the universe is 00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:00.900 made of. So it's like you see a finished cake. 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:03.099 Yeah. And even though you can't see the individual 00:04:03.099 --> 00:04:06.000 grains of flour anymore, you know it had to be 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:09.060 there to make the cake. Perfect analogy. And 00:04:09.060 --> 00:04:11.159 from there, things get really fascinating. Oh, 00:04:11.180 --> 00:04:14.669 I bet. So Tyson brings up some truly exotic ideas 00:04:14.669 --> 00:04:17.629 about what this dark matter could be. Like what? 00:04:18.189 --> 00:04:20.970 He mentioned exotic particles that interact only 00:04:20.970 --> 00:04:25.829 through gravity. Oh. And he even joked that particle 00:04:25.829 --> 00:04:29.589 physicists see every problem as a nail if they're 00:04:29.589 --> 00:04:32.110 holding a hammer. Right. So they're naturally 00:04:32.110 --> 00:04:35.009 drawn to a particle -based solution. That's interesting. 00:04:35.209 --> 00:04:38.509 And you know, that might resonate with you. Yeah, 00:04:38.509 --> 00:04:40.569 for sure. If you've ever seen how specialists 00:04:40.569 --> 00:04:44.430 approach problems within their fields. Absolutely. 00:04:44.569 --> 00:04:46.610 They kind of tend to use the tools they're familiar 00:04:46.610 --> 00:04:49.569 with. To make sense. So the idea is there might 00:04:49.569 --> 00:04:51.949 be these fundamental particles out there that 00:04:51.949 --> 00:04:54.829 don't interact with light or the electromagnetic 00:04:54.829 --> 00:04:57.689 force, which is how we see things and how most 00:04:57.689 --> 00:05:00.680 matter interacts. Oh, okay. So these particles 00:05:00.680 --> 00:05:03.319 would be essentially invisible to us. Interesting. 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:05.699 But because they have mass, they'd still exert 00:05:05.699 --> 00:05:08.220 this gravitational pull. Right. It's almost like 00:05:08.220 --> 00:05:11.060 ghosts. Ghosts. Yeah. They're all around us, 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:14.750 exerting gravity. Yeah. but we can't see or touch 00:05:14.750 --> 00:05:17.209 them because they don't interact with light or 00:05:17.209 --> 00:05:19.910 regular matter. So that's a pretty wild concept. 00:05:19.990 --> 00:05:22.829 I know, right? It is. But then he takes it even 00:05:22.829 --> 00:05:27.310 further with this idea of gravity somehow spilling 00:05:27.310 --> 00:05:31.290 out from parallel universes. Whoa. That's some 00:05:31.290 --> 00:05:34.329 serious mind -bending stuff. It really is. So 00:05:34.329 --> 00:05:37.310 the concept here is that if our universe isn't 00:05:37.310 --> 00:05:41.129 the only one, if there are others existing alongside 00:05:41.129 --> 00:05:45.569 it, then maybe gravity isn't entirely confined 00:05:45.569 --> 00:05:49.250 within each universe. What we perceive as this 00:05:49.250 --> 00:05:53.610 mysterious extra gravity dark matter could actually 00:05:53.610 --> 00:05:57.649 be the ordinary gravitational pull from another 00:05:57.649 --> 00:06:01.009 universe that's somehow leaking into ours. It's 00:06:01.009 --> 00:06:03.670 like seeing a shadow on the wall and it's being 00:06:03.670 --> 00:06:06.720 cast by something in another room you can't directly 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:10.339 see. And he used this great analogy of the blind 00:06:10.339 --> 00:06:12.860 men and the elephant. Oh yeah, I love that one. 00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:15.939 Each one touches a different part and comes up 00:06:15.939 --> 00:06:17.879 with a totally different description. Exactly. 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:21.319 So maybe our understanding of gravity is limited 00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:23.720 by our perspective within our own universe. It's 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:25.920 like we're only seeing part of the picture. And 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:29.379 this idea leads to the question... of multiple 00:06:29.379 --> 00:06:32.379 universes. The multiverse. Exactly. So cool. 00:06:32.660 --> 00:06:34.800 And Tyson points out this historical pattern. 00:06:34.899 --> 00:06:37.740 OK. So we used to think Earth was unique. Right. 00:06:37.819 --> 00:06:39.660 And then we discovered it was just one of many 00:06:39.660 --> 00:06:43.439 planets. Yeah. Then we realized our sun was just 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:49.360 one star among billions in our galaxy. So each 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:52.019 time we've discovered, we're not as special as 00:06:52.019 --> 00:06:54.199 we thought. So why should the universe be any 00:06:54.199 --> 00:06:56.439 different? Exactly. If nature seems to favor 00:06:56.439 --> 00:07:00.279 having multiple instances of things, why would 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:02.899 the universe be a single entity? It really makes 00:07:02.899 --> 00:07:05.480 you think. It does. And there are theoretical 00:07:05.480 --> 00:07:08.379 frameworks in physics. Oh, really? That actually 00:07:08.379 --> 00:07:10.860 suggest the possibility of a multiverse, where 00:07:10.860 --> 00:07:14.560 our universe is just one among countless others. 00:07:14.579 --> 00:07:16.620 That's incredible. Perhaps with slightly different 00:07:16.620 --> 00:07:19.899 laws governing them. Whoa. But Tyson cautions 00:07:19.899 --> 00:07:22.459 that. What does he say? This also introduces 00:07:22.459 --> 00:07:25.540 a lot of uncertainty. OK. Because the laws of 00:07:25.540 --> 00:07:27.959 physics we know might not apply in these other 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:30.939 universes. I see. It's a fascinating but speculative 00:07:30.939 --> 00:07:34.680 area of research. Super cool. Now, Moyers asked 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:39.600 Tyson why his planetarium show felt more authentic 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:42.399 than even the most imaginative science fiction. 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:45.379 Interesting. And Tyson compared it to seeing 00:07:45.379 --> 00:07:50.009 the Apollo 11 command module in a museum. Okay, 00:07:50.110 --> 00:07:52.529 versus looking at a very realistic replica. I 00:07:52.529 --> 00:07:56.350 get it So even if a replica is visually indistinguishable, 00:07:56.649 --> 00:07:58.670 right knowing that the object you're seeing actually 00:07:58.670 --> 00:08:02.149 traveled to the moon Yeah adds this like profound 00:08:02.149 --> 00:08:05.790 layer of meaning I bet and so Tyson argued that 00:08:05.790 --> 00:08:08.470 his Planetarium show because it's grounded in 00:08:08.470 --> 00:08:11.110 real science. Mm -hmm offers that same sense 00:08:11.110 --> 00:08:13.730 of authenticity Interesting. It's like the difference 00:08:13.730 --> 00:08:16.589 between imagining something right knowing it's 00:08:16.589 --> 00:08:19.589 real I see And he brought up this quote from 00:08:19.589 --> 00:08:22.850 J .B .S. Haldane. Oh, okay. The universe is not 00:08:22.850 --> 00:08:26.709 only stranger than we have imagined, but perhaps 00:08:26.709 --> 00:08:30.750 stranger than we can imagine. Wow. That's deep. 00:08:30.930 --> 00:08:33.450 It is. It makes you consider the limits of our 00:08:33.450 --> 00:08:35.970 human intuition. For sure. And it makes you wonder 00:08:35.970 --> 00:08:38.149 what else is out there that we haven't even begun 00:08:38.149 --> 00:08:41.850 to consider. Exactly. Real astrophysics is full 00:08:41.850 --> 00:08:45.190 of phenomena that are just... Far more bizarre 00:08:45.190 --> 00:08:48.389 and awe -inspiring than even the wildest science 00:08:48.389 --> 00:08:51.409 fiction. Black what? Black holes ripping apart 00:08:51.409 --> 00:08:54.769 stars. The potential for life forms in extreme 00:08:54.769 --> 00:08:57.429 environments that we can barely conceive of. 00:08:57.429 --> 00:09:00.370 Crazy. Sometimes reality is more mind -blowing 00:09:00.370 --> 00:09:02.870 than anything we could invent. That's incredible. 00:09:03.009 --> 00:09:05.889 It is. And speaking of mind -blowing, if the 00:09:05.889 --> 00:09:09.169 universe is expanding at an accelerating rate 00:09:09.169 --> 00:09:12.350 because of the dark energy, why don't we feel 00:09:12.350 --> 00:09:15.210 it? Like in our daily lives. It's not like you 00:09:15.210 --> 00:09:17.429 feel yourself stretching out or anything. Good 00:09:17.429 --> 00:09:20.870 point. So Tyson's explanation is all about the 00:09:20.870 --> 00:09:24.509 time scale. Okay. So our human lifespans are 00:09:24.509 --> 00:09:27.070 incredibly short. Right. Compared to billions 00:09:27.070 --> 00:09:29.809 of years. Yeah. That's a huge difference. It 00:09:29.809 --> 00:09:33.279 is. So he uses this helpful analogy. Think about 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:36.100 clouds. Right. They look pretty static to us. 00:09:36.100 --> 00:09:38.799 Yeah. But if you watch a time lapse, you see 00:09:38.799 --> 00:09:41.440 them constantly changing. Right. Moving. So it's 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:44.059 all about perspective. Yeah. And the limited 00:09:44.059 --> 00:09:47.580 window of time that we humans experience. Exactly. 00:09:47.700 --> 00:09:50.600 That makes sense. And he extends this to geological 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:53.419 time scales. OK. The slow process of mountains 00:09:53.419 --> 00:09:56.820 being built, the shifts of ice ages, the long 00:09:56.820 --> 00:10:00.379 process of evolution and extinction. They're 00:10:00.379 --> 00:10:03.960 too slow for us to perceive directly. So we need 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:06.940 computers to help us. Exactly. For simulations 00:10:06.940 --> 00:10:09.899 to visualize these vast stretches of time. He 00:10:09.899 --> 00:10:12.500 gave the example of galaxies colliding. OK. We 00:10:12.500 --> 00:10:15.100 used to think some were just irregular. But simulations 00:10:15.100 --> 00:10:18.639 show that many are actually the result of galactic 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:22.240 collisions. Oh, wow. Cosmic trainwreck. That's 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:24.480 a great way to put it. He even quoted Gerard 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:27.460 de Vaucouleur. What did he say? A wrecked Lexus 00:10:27.460 --> 00:10:30.450 is still a Lexus. Ha ha. So even though they're 00:10:30.450 --> 00:10:33.190 all banged up, they're still galaxies. They still 00:10:33.190 --> 00:10:35.710 have the same fundamental component. That's a 00:10:35.710 --> 00:10:39.350 good one. So what might seem like a static snapshot 00:10:39.350 --> 00:10:43.590 can be a dynamic process unfolding over millions 00:10:43.590 --> 00:10:45.750 or billions of years. When we can simulate it. 00:10:45.750 --> 00:10:47.970 Right. Amazing. Now let's talk about some myths 00:10:47.970 --> 00:10:50.610 getting busted. Oh, I like this. Moyers brought 00:10:50.610 --> 00:10:53.389 up twinkle twinkle little star. Classic. As a 00:10:53.389 --> 00:10:56.289 child, you just accept it as a property of stars. 00:10:56.690 --> 00:10:59.470 Right. But the scientific reality is different. 00:10:59.710 --> 00:11:03.029 Oh, is it? It is. So that twinkling effect, it's 00:11:03.029 --> 00:11:06.990 actually caused by turbulence in Earth's atmosphere, 00:11:07.470 --> 00:11:10.610 distorting the light as it travels from the stars. 00:11:11.009 --> 00:11:14.710 Interesting. Planets, on the other hand, appear 00:11:14.710 --> 00:11:18.009 as tiny disks. So their light isn't as easily 00:11:18.009 --> 00:11:20.870 scattered. I see. And they don't twinkle as much. 00:11:20.929 --> 00:11:25.070 So people wishing on a star. Yeah. might actually 00:11:25.070 --> 00:11:29.450 be wishing on a planet. That's funny. It is. 00:11:29.509 --> 00:11:32.690 Yeah. So does Tyson ever feel bad about debunking 00:11:32.690 --> 00:11:35.549 these myths? Right. Like, does he feel sad breaking 00:11:35.549 --> 00:11:38.190 these illusions? Moyers asked him that. And he 00:11:38.190 --> 00:11:40.669 doesn't feel bad at all. Really? He views it 00:11:40.669 --> 00:11:44.230 as respect for human intellect. So he used a 00:11:44.230 --> 00:11:47.909 powerful example. OK. Epilepsy. Yeah. It used 00:11:47.909 --> 00:11:50.470 to be interpreted as demonic possession, but 00:11:50.470 --> 00:11:53.149 now science understands the neurological basis. 00:11:53.350 --> 00:11:57.269 We shouldn't cling to old explanations for things 00:11:57.269 --> 00:12:00.269 we now understand scientifically. We should direct 00:12:00.269 --> 00:12:03.389 our imaginations towards the vast unknowns of 00:12:03.389 --> 00:12:05.409 the universe. Not the things we already know. 00:12:05.549 --> 00:12:07.830 Exactly. I like that. It's a good perspective. 00:12:07.870 --> 00:12:10.929 It is. Now, their conversation shifted to the 00:12:10.929 --> 00:12:13.110 Big Bang. Oh, cool. The beginning of everything. 00:12:13.490 --> 00:12:15.590 Right. Moyers mentioned Edwin Hubble working 00:12:15.590 --> 00:12:18.190 backward to a single point. But Tyson corrected 00:12:18.190 --> 00:12:22.450 him on that. Really? So while Hubble's observations 00:12:22.450 --> 00:12:26.610 were crucial, the initial calculation came from 00:12:26.610 --> 00:12:30.269 a Belgian priest and physicist named Georges 00:12:30.269 --> 00:12:34.049 Lemaître. Interesting. And he found that combination 00:12:34.049 --> 00:12:37.860 particularly intriguing. Physicist -Priest, that 00:12:37.860 --> 00:12:40.440 is kind of fascinating. It is. And the term Big 00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:43.039 Bang itself, I've always wondered about that. 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:45.940 So it was initially used in a negative way. Oh, 00:12:45.940 --> 00:12:49.080 really? Fred Hoyle, a proponent of the steady 00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:53.139 state theory, he coined it to mock the idea, 00:12:53.360 --> 00:12:57.299 but the name stuck. Wow. And now it's the standard 00:12:57.299 --> 00:12:59.919 term. Funny how that happened. And Robert Jastrow. 00:13:00.519 --> 00:13:03.360 likened the Big Bang to the explosion of a cosmic 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:06.059 hydrogen bomb. That's intense. But even that 00:13:06.059 --> 00:13:09.440 image falls short of capturing the scale of the 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:11.759 event. It's hard to comprehend. It really is. 00:13:11.820 --> 00:13:14.100 So does Tyson give any credence to those who 00:13:14.100 --> 00:13:17.059 try to reconcile faith and reason? By suggesting 00:13:17.059 --> 00:13:21.720 the Big Bang implies a creator. So Moyers asked, 00:13:21.820 --> 00:13:25.899 does Tyson give an A to those who are trying 00:13:25.899 --> 00:13:30.750 to reconcile faith? and reason regarding a provoker 00:13:30.750 --> 00:13:33.710 of the beginning. I see. And Tyson was very clear. 00:13:33.710 --> 00:13:36.450 He doesn't believe those are ultimately reconcilable. 00:13:36.509 --> 00:13:41.690 Oh, wow. So throughout history. Religious texts 00:13:41.690 --> 00:13:44.710 have made claims about the natural world, but 00:13:44.710 --> 00:13:47.669 those claims have been consistently inaccurate, 00:13:47.990 --> 00:13:51.610 as our scientific understanding has grown. Like 00:13:51.610 --> 00:13:54.470 the book of Genesis, describing creation in six 00:13:54.470 --> 00:13:57.590 days and stars falling to Earth. Those are not 00:13:57.590 --> 00:14:01.149 how the universe works. And so Tyson argues that 00:14:01.149 --> 00:14:04.250 the reinterpretation of religious texts as metaphorical 00:14:04.250 --> 00:14:08.759 often comes after scientific discoveries. have 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:11.019 contradicted the literal interpretations. So 00:14:11.019 --> 00:14:13.980 science comes first, then the reinterpretation. 00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:16.639 Exactly. And he distinguishes between what he 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:20.000 calls enlightened religious people who accept 00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:24.580 science and fundamentalists who insert literal 00:14:24.580 --> 00:14:27.820 interpretations into science classrooms. So he's 00:14:27.820 --> 00:14:31.299 saying science classes for science, not religious 00:14:31.299 --> 00:14:33.480 beliefs. Exactly. And he's clear on that. He 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:36.519 is. OK. He believes in freedom of belief. But 00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:39.919 he also insists that non -scientific beliefs 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:43.019 shouldn't be presented as scientific. And he 00:14:43.019 --> 00:14:45.240 even mentioned how some religious people were 00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:48.779 troubled by Carl Sagan's opening line in Cosmos. 00:14:49.379 --> 00:14:52.259 The Cosmos is all that is or ever was or ever 00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:55.940 will be. I remember that. They feared it negated 00:14:55.940 --> 00:14:58.600 God in the afterlife. I can see why. It's an 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:01.860 understandable reaction. It is. But Tyson countered 00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:04.139 that. What did he say? Conceptions of God has 00:15:04.139 --> 00:15:07.139 evolved. Oh, OK. Many now embrace the idea of 00:15:07.139 --> 00:15:09.600 God within the cosmos. I see. More spiritual 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:12.200 presence. Right. He even talked about the neurological 00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:15.360 basis for religious experiences, suggesting they 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:17.659 come from the natural workings of the cosmos. 00:15:17.860 --> 00:15:20.440 Interesting. So while he has empathy, for those 00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:23.539 who find comfort in a personal God, he still 00:15:23.539 --> 00:15:27.019 opposes non -scientific philosophies in science 00:15:27.019 --> 00:15:30.139 classrooms. So that's a firm line for him. It 00:15:30.139 --> 00:15:32.740 is. Okay. Now, Moyer's brought up a crucial point. 00:15:32.779 --> 00:15:35.700 All right. Some people might interpret dark matter 00:15:35.700 --> 00:15:41.259 as evidence of God. Oh, wow. This unseen force 00:15:41.259 --> 00:15:43.820 holding the universe together. Right. It's a 00:15:43.820 --> 00:15:45.799 natural connection for some. I can see that. 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:47.639 And it's an example of what's called. What is 00:15:47.639 --> 00:15:51.340 it? The God of the gaps. Oh, okay. So throughout 00:15:51.340 --> 00:15:54.159 history. Yeah. When we couldn't explain something. 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:57.789 Uh huh. we'd invoke divine intervention. Interesting. 00:15:57.870 --> 00:16:01.730 Like Isaac Newton even Ptolemy with his earth 00:16:01.730 --> 00:16:04.110 -centered universe. Yeah. They attributed the 00:16:04.110 --> 00:16:07.129 unexplained to God. So we filled the gaps in 00:16:07.129 --> 00:16:09.750 our knowledge with God. Exactly. But what happens 00:16:09.750 --> 00:16:12.629 when science explains those gaps? Right. What 00:16:12.629 --> 00:16:16.549 happens to God then? So Tyson's point is if God 00:16:16.549 --> 00:16:18.929 is just the current mysteries of the universe, 00:16:19.690 --> 00:16:23.940 then God is shrinking. as science explains those 00:16:23.940 --> 00:16:27.740 mysteries. That's deep. So his challenge is for 00:16:27.740 --> 00:16:32.580 religion to stay relevant. God has to mean more 00:16:32.580 --> 00:16:35.899 than just what science hasn't explained yet. 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.120 I see. So in this deep dive, we have explored 00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:43.299 some amazing ideas. We have. The unseen forces 00:16:43.299 --> 00:16:47.269 shaping the universe. The vastness of time. The 00:16:47.269 --> 00:16:50.470 power of scientific discovery and the relationship 00:16:50.470 --> 00:16:53.129 between science and faith. It's been a journey. 00:16:53.409 --> 00:16:56.509 It has. And ultimately the quest to understand 00:16:56.509 --> 00:17:01.070 the universe through science is itself a source 00:17:01.070 --> 00:17:03.590 of wonder. It is. Perhaps the marvels in the 00:17:03.590 --> 00:17:05.609 discovery. Exactly. And the understanding it 00:17:05.609 --> 00:17:08.430 brings. Not in filling the gaps with the supernatural. 00:17:09.130 --> 00:17:11.150 It's something to think about. It really is. 00:17:11.150 --> 00:17:14.869 For sure. So if God is tied to the mysteries 00:17:14.869 --> 00:17:17.680 of the universe. Yeah. What happens as science 00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:20.839 continues to unravel them? That's the question. 00:17:21.259 --> 00:17:23.619 It's a lot to ponder. It is. Maybe the quest 00:17:23.619 --> 00:17:26.319 for knowledge is a testament to the universe 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:28.480 itself. I like that. It's something to keep in 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:31.140 mind. Yeah. It is. Long after this deep dive 00:17:31.140 --> 00:17:34.619 is over. Absolutely. Thanks for joining us. It's 00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:36.859 been a pleasure. Until next time. See you then.