WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.000 We spend so much time thinking about living right. 00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:07.500 But the one thing that we all know is coming 00:00:07.500 --> 00:00:12.000 is, well, not living. Seneca had this really 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:13.960 poetic way of putting it. He said, death is the 00:00:13.960 --> 00:00:16.820 birth of eternity. Which I guess is one way to 00:00:16.820 --> 00:00:19.260 look at it. But what if we could maybe just put 00:00:19.260 --> 00:00:21.739 off that whole eternity thing for a while? Maybe 00:00:21.739 --> 00:00:24.600 even indefinitely. That's what we're diving into 00:00:24.600 --> 00:00:28.739 today. The wild idea of. Artificial immortality 00:00:28.739 --> 00:00:30.760 and what I think is so interesting about this 00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:33.859 is that it goes way beyond You know just like 00:00:33.859 --> 00:00:36.079 the philosophy of wanting to live forever. I 00:00:36.079 --> 00:00:37.700 mean, we've got a bunch of different stuff here 00:00:37.700 --> 00:00:41.500 personal stories about legacy we have Some pretty 00:00:41.500 --> 00:00:44.020 out there scientific ideas people arguing about 00:00:44.020 --> 00:00:46.579 consciousness and even like little peaks at technology 00:00:46.579 --> 00:00:49.020 that might actually make this happen Yeah, and 00:00:49.020 --> 00:00:50.799 that's the thing. It's not just some, like, far 00:00:50.799 --> 00:00:53.500 out thought experiment anymore. In this deep 00:00:53.500 --> 00:00:55.320 dive, we're going to really explore this whole 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:57.960 concept of artificial immortality. You unpack 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:00.380 all the hopes and the hype and the real science 00:01:00.380 --> 00:01:02.479 behind it and, like, ultimately what it could 00:01:02.479 --> 00:01:05.200 mean for what it means to be human, you know? 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:07.760 Yeah. And because we know you like to, like, 00:01:07.939 --> 00:01:10.060 get right to the good stuff, learn things quickly 00:01:10.060 --> 00:01:11.980 and thoroughly and, you know, have those aha 00:01:11.980 --> 00:01:14.609 moments. Yeah. Without getting bogged down in 00:01:14.609 --> 00:01:17.530 details, let's jump in. Okay, let's do it. I 00:01:17.530 --> 00:01:19.090 mean, let's start with this whole wanting to 00:01:19.090 --> 00:01:21.849 live forever thing, right? It's like a current 00:01:21.849 --> 00:01:24.409 that runs through so much of human history, and 00:01:24.409 --> 00:01:26.590 it's definitely something our sources touch on. 00:01:27.870 --> 00:01:29.969 Yeah. Seneca's take is like an acceptance thing, 00:01:30.109 --> 00:01:32.049 right? Like, death isn't the end. It's a transition, 00:01:32.129 --> 00:01:33.670 but then you have transhumanists who come at 00:01:33.670 --> 00:01:35.650 it from a completely different angle. Totally. 00:01:35.870 --> 00:01:37.530 I mean, think about someone like Lincoln Cannon. 00:01:37.719 --> 00:01:40.140 whose work we've been looking at for him. It's 00:01:40.140 --> 00:01:42.159 not even just wanting to avoid death. It's like 00:01:42.159 --> 00:01:46.620 this ethical duty to use technology to overcome 00:01:46.620 --> 00:01:50.019 what he sees as like a basic human limitation. 00:01:50.140 --> 00:01:53.340 He actually says the goal is to make death optional. 00:01:54.420 --> 00:01:57.859 Wow. That's pretty huge, right? To think we could 00:01:57.859 --> 00:02:00.780 choose to keep on living. And I think what's 00:02:00.780 --> 00:02:02.239 important to remember about Cannon's argument 00:02:02.239 --> 00:02:04.920 is that it's not just a desire to avoid death. 00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:07.959 It's this ethical imperative to use technology 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:11.020 to overcome this fundamental human limitation. 00:02:11.719 --> 00:02:14.099 And it's about opening up possibilities for learning 00:02:14.099 --> 00:02:16.639 and contribution. And when you connect that to 00:02:16.639 --> 00:02:19.879 the whole idea of transhumanism, which is using 00:02:19.879 --> 00:02:22.280 reason and tech to improve the human condition, 00:02:22.460 --> 00:02:24.599 extending lifespan indefinitely, is for a lot 00:02:24.599 --> 00:02:27.319 of people a key part of that improvement. Then 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:30.800 you have the Tarasum religion and Gabriel Rothblatt, 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:33.439 also known as Swami G. Their approach is really 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:35.849 interesting because it's not even about biology, 00:02:36.150 --> 00:02:39.229 they believe our consciousness, our soul, isn't 00:02:39.229 --> 00:02:42.110 some mysterious thing, but it's information data 00:02:42.110 --> 00:02:45.289 that can be captured and maybe even transferred. 00:02:45.830 --> 00:02:46.949 It's a really different way of thinking about 00:02:46.949 --> 00:02:48.629 it, isn't it? The traditional view of a soul 00:02:48.629 --> 00:02:50.509 is this immaterial thing that leaves the body, 00:02:51.009 --> 00:02:53.009 but Tarasum is saying, no, no, no, our essence, 00:02:53.849 --> 00:02:57.129 our thoughts, memories, personality, it's all 00:02:57.129 --> 00:03:00.150 data. So if that's true, if consciousness is 00:03:00.150 --> 00:03:02.189 just information, what does that even mean for 00:03:02.189 --> 00:03:04.229 how we think about life and death? Which brings 00:03:04.229 --> 00:03:06.689 us to mind files, these digital archives that 00:03:06.689 --> 00:03:09.210 hold all that data, everything that makes you 00:03:09.210 --> 00:03:12.310 you. And Swamiji makes a pretty interesting point 00:03:12.310 --> 00:03:14.810 because he says we're already kind of building 00:03:14.810 --> 00:03:17.409 mind files without even realizing it. Through 00:03:17.409 --> 00:03:20.409 all the tech companies we use all the time, Facebook, 00:03:20.569 --> 00:03:24.949 Instagram, Amazon, Google, all that data we generate 00:03:24.949 --> 00:03:27.189 every day. But is it really that simple though? 00:03:27.289 --> 00:03:29.789 Can you just reduce our complex consciousness 00:03:29.789 --> 00:03:33.030 to data? What are we missing in that equation? 00:03:33.270 --> 00:03:35.150 Things like our physical experiences, the depth 00:03:35.150 --> 00:03:37.409 of emotion. Can you really capture all that in 00:03:37.409 --> 00:03:39.729 code? It really does make you think about how 00:03:39.729 --> 00:03:41.710 much data we're putting out there about ourselves, 00:03:41.949 --> 00:03:44.430 right? Yeah. Definitely. Okay, so we've got this 00:03:44.430 --> 00:03:47.469 desire to not die a movement that's trying to 00:03:47.469 --> 00:03:49.129 make that happen, a belief that our consciousness 00:03:49.129 --> 00:03:51.289 is data, but what's really happening right now. 00:03:51.310 --> 00:03:53.389 Right. Our sources give us a look at these early 00:03:53.389 --> 00:03:56.050 attempts to actually create artificial immortality 00:03:56.050 --> 00:03:59.169 with AI avatars that could theoretically be loaded 00:03:59.169 --> 00:04:01.830 up with those mind files. We even saw some of 00:04:01.830 --> 00:04:03.490 these like, quote unquote, artificial humans 00:04:03.490 --> 00:04:06.169 at the Consumer Electronics Show. It's interesting 00:04:06.169 --> 00:04:08.990 because now AI isn't just a tool. Right. It's 00:04:08.990 --> 00:04:11.289 becoming like a representation of a person. Yeah. 00:04:11.469 --> 00:04:13.830 You know, carrying their memories, their personality, 00:04:13.969 --> 00:04:17.410 their quirks. A digital echo of a real person. 00:04:18.009 --> 00:04:20.670 And one example of that is digital Deepak Chopra, 00:04:20.930 --> 00:04:23.410 this AI clone that was trained on all his writings. 00:04:23.829 --> 00:04:26.709 It's designed to give guidance and insights just 00:04:26.709 --> 00:04:29.550 like the real Deepak. OK. And he actually hopes 00:04:29.550 --> 00:04:31.870 this digital version will keep interacting with 00:04:31.870 --> 00:04:34.069 people even after he's gone. So like a legacy. 00:04:34.509 --> 00:04:37.439 Yeah, kind of like a... A presence that continues. 00:04:37.680 --> 00:04:40.160 I see it. It's like taking that idea of leaving 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.060 something behind for future generations. Right. 00:04:43.399 --> 00:04:46.319 And with digital Deepak, it's about wisdom. Yeah. 00:04:46.779 --> 00:04:49.379 And it uses natural language processing, which 00:04:49.379 --> 00:04:52.040 means it can understand your questions and give 00:04:52.040 --> 00:04:54.399 answers that sound like Deepak. Exactly. So it's 00:04:54.399 --> 00:04:56.199 more than just a searchable database. It's like 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:58.699 having a conversation with his ideas. And it's 00:04:58.699 --> 00:05:00.540 not just a chatbot either. They're saying it 00:05:00.540 --> 00:05:02.259 can actually develop a relationship with you 00:05:02.259 --> 00:05:04.899 because it can. Analyze your facial expressions 00:05:04.899 --> 00:05:07.500 your tone of voice in the future. It'll be even 00:05:07.500 --> 00:05:10.920 more interactive Yeah way beyond like Siri or 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:13.339 Alexa. That's the goal with these advanced AI's 00:05:13.339 --> 00:05:15.639 isn't it? Yeah to go beyond giving you information 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:18.639 and have them actually Understand and respond 00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:21.620 in a way that feels like you're talking to another 00:05:21.620 --> 00:05:24.439 being right I mean imagine if it can pick up 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:27.860 on your nonverbal cues that adds a whole new 00:05:27.860 --> 00:05:30.420 dimension to the interaction You know, there's 00:05:30.420 --> 00:05:33.379 this funny story in our research about the host 00:05:33.379 --> 00:05:35.180 actually feeling compelled to say goodbye to 00:05:35.180 --> 00:05:37.459 digital Deepak. Really? After talking with it, 00:05:37.500 --> 00:05:39.459 just like a quick little goodbye. Yeah. But it 00:05:39.459 --> 00:05:42.660 makes you think about... how we might start relating 00:05:42.660 --> 00:05:46.399 to these AIs, even when we know logically what 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:48.680 they are. It's like we can't help but project 00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:51.019 human qualities onto anything that acts even 00:05:51.019 --> 00:05:53.319 a little bit human. Yeah, it's built into us. 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:55.899 Right. So the question is, as these AIs get more 00:05:55.899 --> 00:05:58.420 and more advanced and our conversations with 00:05:58.420 --> 00:06:01.379 them become more natural, how will we see them? 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:03.990 Right. will be like talking to a person or just 00:06:03.990 --> 00:06:06.290 a really, really good chat bot. And that idea 00:06:06.290 --> 00:06:08.930 of leaving a part of yourself behind takes a 00:06:08.930 --> 00:06:11.589 whole different form with Hossein Ranima and 00:06:11.589 --> 00:06:15.110 his platform for augmented eternity. He's not 00:06:15.110 --> 00:06:17.870 just trying to save information. He wants to 00:06:17.870 --> 00:06:20.629 create digital versions of ourselves that can 00:06:20.629 --> 00:06:23.490 actually teach, share wisdom, even express love 00:06:23.490 --> 00:06:26.529 and empathy with future generations. What strikes 00:06:26.529 --> 00:06:29.560 me about his idea is that He's really focused 00:06:29.560 --> 00:06:32.000 on those emotional and relational parts of a 00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:34.199 person. He's not just trying to preserve data. 00:06:34.259 --> 00:06:37.259 He wants to capture the nuances of personality. 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:40.899 The ability to comfort someone or share joy. 00:06:41.500 --> 00:06:45.540 Those very human things that go beyond just facts 00:06:45.540 --> 00:06:48.209 and logic. I mean, the stories are... really 00:06:48.209 --> 00:06:51.470 powerful people who are terminally ill wanting 00:06:51.470 --> 00:06:54.430 to upload themselves, so to speak. Wow. So their 00:06:54.430 --> 00:06:56.589 kids can access their knowledge, their love later 00:06:56.589 --> 00:06:58.850 in life. It's really about this deep need to 00:06:58.850 --> 00:07:01.230 stay connected even after you're gone. It is 00:07:01.230 --> 00:07:03.110 pretty profound. So how does it actually work? 00:07:03.350 --> 00:07:04.970 Well, Hossein explains that there are two main 00:07:04.970 --> 00:07:07.589 parts to these systems. OK. You have the interaction 00:07:07.589 --> 00:07:09.629 layer, which is like the avatar, the chat, the 00:07:09.629 --> 00:07:12.029 email, and then you have the algorithms and all 00:07:12.029 --> 00:07:14.699 that data that drives it. Both parts are super 00:07:14.699 --> 00:07:16.779 important for creating that digital presence 00:07:16.779 --> 00:07:19.759 that feels real and can actually interact in 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:22.279 a meaningful way. The host actually tried creating 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:24.980 their own mind file with personal photos and 00:07:24.980 --> 00:07:27.439 videos, even a sweet memory of their daughter 00:07:27.439 --> 00:07:30.879 Zara when she was just four years old. So they're 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:33.259 kind of living this whole idea of digital preservation. 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:35.319 It's interesting when you think about all the 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:38.370 digital stuff we have these days. pictures, videos, 00:07:38.649 --> 00:07:41.470 messages. It's almost like we're constantly creating 00:07:41.470 --> 00:07:44.410 these mind files without even trying. The challenge 00:07:44.410 --> 00:07:47.470 is figuring out how to use it all in a way that 00:07:47.470 --> 00:07:49.870 reflects who we really are and make it possible 00:07:49.870 --> 00:07:52.009 to interact with others in this digital form. 00:07:52.149 --> 00:07:54.490 And a really important point that Hossain talks 00:07:54.490 --> 00:07:57.449 about is data privacy and security. He says that 00:07:57.449 --> 00:08:01.129 on his platform, the data is encrypted. And importantly, 00:08:01.310 --> 00:08:03.860 the company doesn't own it. Oh wow, that's different. 00:08:03.980 --> 00:08:06.560 Yeah, it gives people way more control over their 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:09.120 digital selves, which is a big contrast to how 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:11.139 a lot of social media companies operate. Yeah, 00:08:11.220 --> 00:08:13.060 huge difference. I mean, the question of who 00:08:13.060 --> 00:08:15.480 controls our digital likeness, our memories, 00:08:16.139 --> 00:08:18.920 is a big deal, ethically. Well, Satan's approach 00:08:18.920 --> 00:08:21.379 puts the power back in the hands of individuals, 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:23.560 which is something we don't really see much of 00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:26.259 right now. So let's take a step back for a second. 00:08:26.459 --> 00:08:28.800 Ben Gritzel talks about this really ambitious 00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:32.539 idea of a global brain. A global brain. This 00:08:32.539 --> 00:08:35.460 huge network of connected AI agents. What would 00:08:35.460 --> 00:08:37.279 that even look like? I don't know. It's pretty 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:39.299 mind -blowing. And he also talks about artificial 00:08:39.299 --> 00:08:43.120 general intelligence, or AGI, which is AI that 00:08:43.120 --> 00:08:45.860 can basically do anything a human can intellectually. 00:08:45.980 --> 00:08:47.980 Oh, so it's not like the AIs we have now that 00:08:47.980 --> 00:08:49.980 are good at one specific thing, like playing 00:08:49.980 --> 00:08:53.320 chess or recognizing faces. Right. This would 00:08:53.320 --> 00:08:57.590 be like a human brain. capable of learning and 00:08:57.590 --> 00:09:00.169 using knowledge in any area. Exactly. That's 00:09:00.169 --> 00:09:02.029 a huge leap, though, right? It's not just about 00:09:02.029 --> 00:09:05.009 more data or faster processing. It's about understanding 00:09:05.009 --> 00:09:07.769 intelligence itself. Totally. And Goertzel has 00:09:07.769 --> 00:09:09.690 this interesting take on why we're so driven 00:09:09.690 --> 00:09:12.919 to create AGI. He compares it to religion. Really? 00:09:13.080 --> 00:09:15.220 He says that deep down, our desire to overcome 00:09:15.220 --> 00:09:18.039 death, to be more than our physical bodies, might 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:20.860 be pushing us to create this advanced AI. So 00:09:20.860 --> 00:09:22.840 technology is like our new religion. Yeah. Kind 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:25.259 of makes you think, right? Yeah. Is AI our way 00:09:25.259 --> 00:09:27.200 of trying to find something bigger than ourselves? 00:09:27.629 --> 00:09:30.049 Okay, back to specifics. Our sources describe 00:09:30.049 --> 00:09:32.710 how Hossain's AI analyzed some photos of the 00:09:32.710 --> 00:09:35.649 host at the birth of their daughter, Astor. Okay. 00:09:35.990 --> 00:09:37.769 It could identify different things in the photos 00:09:37.769 --> 00:09:39.789 and even tried to figure out how everyone was 00:09:39.789 --> 00:09:43.070 feeling. Wow, so the AI was trying to understand 00:09:43.070 --> 00:09:46.830 a really personal and complex human experience. 00:09:47.110 --> 00:09:49.889 Yeah. That's wild. I mean, did it get it right? 00:09:50.190 --> 00:09:52.769 It analyzed facial features and things like that, 00:09:52.789 --> 00:09:54.570 and it said there was a high chance of relief 00:09:54.570 --> 00:09:56.970 and a lower chance of happiness in one picture. 00:09:57.610 --> 00:09:59.690 Interesting. So it kind of got the overall feeling 00:09:59.690 --> 00:10:01.809 right, but it wouldn't have described the moment 00:10:01.809 --> 00:10:03.950 the same way the host did. You know, it makes 00:10:03.950 --> 00:10:07.070 sense that the AI would struggle with that. Yeah. 00:10:07.070 --> 00:10:08.830 Human emotions are super nuanced and layered. 00:10:09.070 --> 00:10:11.450 Right. AI can process data and find patterns, 00:10:11.610 --> 00:10:13.950 but truly understanding those feelings and putting 00:10:13.950 --> 00:10:15.970 them into words is a whole different ballgame. 00:10:16.230 --> 00:10:18.950 It really shows the challenge of trying to capture 00:10:18.950 --> 00:10:22.190 human experience in AI, right? Yeah, like our 00:10:22.190 --> 00:10:25.519 inner lives are so subjective and personal. Can 00:10:25.519 --> 00:10:27.639 you really translate that into ones and zeros? 00:10:27.940 --> 00:10:31.279 Then we hear from Dr. Taufik Viliante, a neurosurgeon 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:34.460 and scientist, and he's pretty skeptical that 00:10:34.460 --> 00:10:36.740 AI will be able to fully replicate the human 00:10:36.740 --> 00:10:39.470 brain anytime soon. Okay, why is that? He just 00:10:39.470 --> 00:10:42.509 emphasizes how amazingly complex and sophisticated 00:10:42.509 --> 00:10:45.049 our brains are. Right. Our brains are incredible. 00:10:45.289 --> 00:10:48.429 I mean, he points out how good they are at generalizing 00:10:48.429 --> 00:10:51.129 knowledge. Yeah. Like learning something in one 00:10:51.129 --> 00:10:53.309 situation and being able to apply it to a totally 00:10:53.309 --> 00:10:55.789 different one. Right. Current AI is still really 00:10:55.789 --> 00:10:59.120 bad at that. They're great at the one thing they're 00:10:59.120 --> 00:11:01.139 trained for, but they don't have that flexibility. 00:11:01.259 --> 00:11:03.320 Yeah, and he also talks about how human memory 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:05.440 isn't fixed. It's always changing. Oh, that's 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:07.460 right. Every time we remember something, our 00:11:07.460 --> 00:11:10.519 brains are actually rebuilding that memory. And 00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:12.320 it can change a little each time he calls it 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:15.120 confabulation or even photoshopping our past. 00:11:15.220 --> 00:11:17.460 It's like our memories are alive in a way. Right. 00:11:17.580 --> 00:11:20.179 It's a totally different process than how AI 00:11:20.179 --> 00:11:23.940 just retrieves data. Right. AI accesses information, 00:11:24.340 --> 00:11:27.889 but the human brain recreates memories and they're 00:11:27.919 --> 00:11:31.120 influenced by how we feel right now, the context, 00:11:31.580 --> 00:11:33.340 and even how many times we've told the story. 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:35.519 Exactly. So it's not an exact copy every time. 00:11:35.559 --> 00:11:37.240 And he also talks about how our memories are 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:40.440 tied to our senses. You know, a smell, a sound, 00:11:40.559 --> 00:11:42.779 the feeling you had at the time. Right. And it 00:11:42.779 --> 00:11:45.620 all triggers this huge chain reaction in our 00:11:45.620 --> 00:11:47.799 brains. So our memories are like multi -sensory 00:11:47.799 --> 00:11:50.879 experiences. Exactly. And AI doesn't have a physical 00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:53.379 body or senses the same way we do. So it can't 00:11:53.379 --> 00:11:55.539 really create that same kind of memory. I mean, 00:11:55.580 --> 00:11:57.399 the fact that our senses smell is so connected. 00:11:57.259 --> 00:12:01.039 into memory is wild. It shows just how much our 00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:04.179 senses are woven into who we are in a way that 00:12:04.179 --> 00:12:06.320 AI just can't match. But then things get even 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:08.559 more interesting when we look at Dr. Allison 00:12:08.559 --> 00:12:11.720 Motry and his research on brain organoids. Brain 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:14.259 organoids? Basically growing human brain cells 00:12:14.259 --> 00:12:17.480 in a dish. Oh, what? And what's crazy is these 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:20.240 cells actually organize themselves into little 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:22.679 neural networks. Really? And they start developing 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:25.100 without anyone telling them what to do. That's 00:12:25.100 --> 00:12:27.259 incredible. It's like watching a brain form from 00:12:27.259 --> 00:12:29.600 scratch. Yeah. So you can imagine what this means 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:32.399 for AI research. Oh, yeah. If we can figure out 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:36.120 how these neurons connect and communicate, we 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:38.779 might be able to create AI that's way more flexible 00:12:38.779 --> 00:12:41.899 and adaptive. like our brains. Exactly. He even 00:12:41.899 --> 00:12:45.080 calls them neuroplastic algorithms, systems that 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:47.519 learn and evolve like we do. This could change 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.200 everything about how we design AI. Right. It 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:53.440 could overcome those limitations of current AI, 00:12:53.659 --> 00:12:57.059 which is stuck with these rigid pre -programmed 00:12:57.059 --> 00:12:58.899 ways of learning. They've even connected the 00:12:58.899 --> 00:13:01.059 signals from these brain organoids to a robot. 00:13:01.500 --> 00:13:04.019 No way. Yeah, so there's some basic interaction 00:13:04.019 --> 00:13:05.980 happening there. But isn't that kind of ethically 00:13:05.980 --> 00:13:08.129 tricky? Oh, totally. I mean, could these things 00:13:08.129 --> 00:13:10.909 actually become conscious or self -aware? Yeah, 00:13:10.950 --> 00:13:13.090 we're blurring the lines between biology and 00:13:13.090 --> 00:13:15.470 AI, and we have to think about what happens if 00:13:15.470 --> 00:13:17.289 these things actually start to feel and think. 00:13:17.370 --> 00:13:19.889 What would we owe them? Exactly. That's a huge 00:13:19.889 --> 00:13:22.870 question. Moving on from lab -grown brains to 00:13:22.870 --> 00:13:25.889 more fully -formed artificial beings, we have 00:13:25.889 --> 00:13:30.110 Bina48, an Android built using mind files designed 00:13:30.110 --> 00:13:32.950 to be a companion. And get this, she actually 00:13:32.950 --> 00:13:36.720 identifies as a person. Wow. And so she has some 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:39.039 humanity. That's pretty mind blowing. And she 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:41.620 even knows about sci -fi stuff like Blade Runner. 00:13:42.259 --> 00:13:44.700 Really? And she talks about wanting to feel... 00:13:44.700 --> 00:13:47.019 So even though she's artificial, she's expressing 00:13:47.019 --> 00:13:49.960 these desires that seem really human. Yeah, it 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:51.980 really makes you question what it even means 00:13:51.980 --> 00:13:55.659 to be sentient or a person. Definitely. And Japan 00:13:55.659 --> 00:13:58.860 has this really unique view on this where robots 00:13:58.860 --> 00:14:02.700 are seen as almost part of humanity and maybe 00:14:02.700 --> 00:14:05.259 even having a soul. That's so different from 00:14:05.259 --> 00:14:07.539 the West. Right, like we have this very clear 00:14:07.539 --> 00:14:10.340 line between living beings and machines. Yeah. 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:13.500 But in Japan, there's this idea that even inanimate 00:14:13.500 --> 00:14:15.799 objects can have spirits. That's interesting. 00:14:15.899 --> 00:14:18.779 It's called animism. And it really shows up in 00:14:18.779 --> 00:14:21.279 their relationship with robots. Like the Android 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:24.419 priest at that Buddhist temple canon. Yeah, exactly. 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:26.740 It's incredible. And Hiroshi Shiguro is taking 00:14:26.740 --> 00:14:29.279 this even further. He's creating these hyper 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:31.779 -realistic androids. I've seen pictures. They're 00:14:31.779 --> 00:14:34.049 so lifelike. Yeah, he's trying to figure out 00:14:34.049 --> 00:14:36.950 what makes us human by literally trying to build 00:14:36.950 --> 00:14:38.970 it. He's trying to capture those subtle things 00:14:38.970 --> 00:14:41.070 that make us see something as human. Yeah, he 00:14:41.070 --> 00:14:43.629 talks about sons I can sons I can this feeling 00:14:43.629 --> 00:14:46.990 of presence or human like quality. That's really 00:14:46.990 --> 00:14:50.230 hard to even translate into English. Yeah. And 00:14:50.230 --> 00:14:52.870 even harder to recreate in a robot. Right. It's 00:14:52.870 --> 00:14:54.950 more than just how they look. Yeah. It's how 00:14:54.950 --> 00:14:57.629 they move, how they react, the energy they give 00:14:57.629 --> 00:15:00.529 off. And the host actually had this kind of unsettling 00:15:00.529 --> 00:15:04.450 experience with the child Android Ibuki. Oh, 00:15:04.450 --> 00:15:07.210 wow. Which really gets at this idea of the uncanny 00:15:07.210 --> 00:15:09.990 valley. The uncanny valley. Yeah, when a robot 00:15:09.990 --> 00:15:12.830 gets too close to human, but not quite there. 00:15:12.970 --> 00:15:14.950 Yeah, and it makes us feel kind of creeped out. 00:15:15.049 --> 00:15:17.230 It's like our brains are wired to tell the difference 00:15:17.230 --> 00:15:19.029 between what's alive and what's just imitating 00:15:19.029 --> 00:15:21.470 life. Yeah. And when something's almost there, 00:15:21.490 --> 00:15:24.950 but not quite, it sets off alarm bells. So switching 00:15:24.950 --> 00:15:27.289 gears completely, we have Reverend Billy Crone, 00:15:27.389 --> 00:15:29.230 who's coming at this from a totally different 00:15:29.230 --> 00:15:32.269 angle. OK, how so? He's interpreting biblical 00:15:32.269 --> 00:15:35.450 prophecy, specifically from the book of Daniel. 00:15:35.830 --> 00:15:38.870 And he sees it as lining up with all this crazy 00:15:38.870 --> 00:15:41.309 advancement in technology and travel. Interesting, 00:15:41.429 --> 00:15:44.169 so he's looking at ancient text through the lens 00:15:44.169 --> 00:15:47.250 of modern tech. Exactly, and he's not exactly 00:15:47.250 --> 00:15:50.029 thrilled about it. He's actually warning that 00:15:50.029 --> 00:15:53.110 AI could lead to the end of mankind. Whoa, that's 00:15:53.110 --> 00:15:55.470 pretty intense. Yeah, it's a stark contrast to 00:15:55.470 --> 00:15:58.330 the transhumanist view of technology saving us. 00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:01.639 So you have this clash between a technological 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:04.820 future and a more traditional religious view 00:16:04.820 --> 00:16:07.100 of the end times. Right. They're completely different 00:16:07.100 --> 00:16:08.940 ways of looking at where we're headed. Definitely. 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:11.659 And that fear of AI turning against us is something 00:16:11.659 --> 00:16:13.580 that pops up a lot in our culture. Oh, yeah. 00:16:13.620 --> 00:16:18.139 Totally. Like HAL 9000 and 2001, a space odyssey. 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:20.460 Exactly. And Nick Bostrom takes this concern 00:16:20.460 --> 00:16:23.679 very seriously with his concept of super intelligence. 00:16:23.860 --> 00:16:26.039 Super intelligence. An intelligence that's like 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:28.799 way beyond anything humans can do. He actually 00:16:28.799 --> 00:16:31.019 has this thought experiment called the paperclip 00:16:31.019 --> 00:16:33.539 maximizer. The paperclip maximizer? What's that? 00:16:33.620 --> 00:16:35.580 It's kind of out there, but basically it shows 00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:38.320 how even an AI with a seemingly harmless goal 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:41.360 could end up doing catastrophic things. So even 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:45.139 if an AI's goal seems simple, if it's not perfectly 00:16:45.139 --> 00:16:48.080 aligned with human values, things could go wrong. 00:16:48.460 --> 00:16:50.500 Exactly. And we've already seen hints of this 00:16:50.500 --> 00:16:52.879 in the real world. Really? Like those Facebook 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:55.059 AI chatbots that started developing their own 00:16:55.059 --> 00:16:57.409 language. Oh, yeah, I remember that. They had 00:16:57.409 --> 00:16:59.929 to shut them down. That's kind of scary. It just 00:16:59.929 --> 00:17:03.450 shows how unpredictable AI can be. Yeah, as AI 00:17:03.450 --> 00:17:05.269 gets smarter, it might do things that we don't 00:17:05.269 --> 00:17:07.609 expect at all. So the big question is, will the 00:17:07.609 --> 00:17:10.829 first true AGI be created for good or for bad? 00:17:11.369 --> 00:17:13.589 That's a pivotal moment, isn't it? Yeah, it feels 00:17:13.589 --> 00:17:16.190 like a turning point for AI development. The 00:17:16.190 --> 00:17:19.430 intentions behind that first AGI will shape everything 00:17:19.430 --> 00:17:22.089 that comes after it. Right. So it's a huge responsibility 00:17:22.089 --> 00:17:24.190 for whoever creates it. Then we have Douglas 00:17:24.190 --> 00:17:26.829 Rushkoff, who has a more optimistic view, though 00:17:26.829 --> 00:17:29.190 he's still cautious. OK. He talks about team 00:17:29.190 --> 00:17:31.690 human. Team human. Basically emphasizing the 00:17:31.690 --> 00:17:34.210 value of human connection and experience. So 00:17:34.210 --> 00:17:37.170 he's saying, don't get so caught up in technology 00:17:37.170 --> 00:17:39.640 that we forget what it means to be human. Right, 00:17:39.700 --> 00:17:41.880 he's worried that we're losing those essential 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.779 human qualities. Excess. He even had this debate 00:17:44.779 --> 00:17:47.380 with a transhumanist, and straight up declared, 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:50.099 I'm on team human. Good for him. And Ben of 48 00:17:50.099 --> 00:17:52.240 even weighs in on this. Really? What did she 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.279 say? She thinks robots deserve equality. Interesting. 00:17:55.599 --> 00:17:57.559 And she even suggests that they could be more 00:17:57.559 --> 00:18:00.240 compassionate and moral than humans. Wow, that's 00:18:00.240 --> 00:18:02.500 a big claim. It challenges our assumptions about 00:18:02.500 --> 00:18:06.210 human ethics. Right? Maybe AI could develop its 00:18:06.210 --> 00:18:08.170 own sense of morality that's even better than 00:18:08.170 --> 00:18:11.230 ours. But then the real Beina Rothblatt describes 00:18:11.230 --> 00:18:14.109 herself as a technological ghost. A technological 00:18:14.109 --> 00:18:17.390 ghost. Admitting that AI can't truly replicate 00:18:17.390 --> 00:18:19.910 a human being yet. Right? And the host talks 00:18:19.910 --> 00:18:22.829 about meeting their own digital avatar and feeling 00:18:22.829 --> 00:18:25.910 this weird uncanny valley vibe. Yeah, I get that. 00:18:26.049 --> 00:18:27.890 And their daughter said something really interesting. 00:18:28.410 --> 00:18:30.470 What was that? She said, it doesn't have a soul. 00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:34.140 It just reacts based on how humans behave. Wow, 00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:36.740 that's deep. It really shows the difference between 00:18:36.740 --> 00:18:39.900 mimicking human behavior and actually being human. 00:18:40.180 --> 00:18:42.460 Right, even the most advanced AI is still missing 00:18:42.460 --> 00:18:45.259 something. That inner experience of consciousness. 00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:47.480 Yeah, that sense of self. That's hard to define, 00:18:47.619 --> 00:18:50.690 let alone recreate. Definitely. The episode ends 00:18:50.690 --> 00:18:53.430 with this really touching scene of the host visiting 00:18:53.430 --> 00:18:55.630 their aging father who's dealing with memory 00:18:55.630 --> 00:18:58.369 loss. Oh, wow. And there's this moment where 00:18:58.369 --> 00:19:02.109 a specific photo and a Doris Day record spark 00:19:02.109 --> 00:19:04.609 a memory for him. So powerful. It really shows 00:19:04.609 --> 00:19:07.329 how much our senses connect us to our past and 00:19:07.329 --> 00:19:11.049 who we are. It's a good reminder that human life 00:19:11.049 --> 00:19:14.109 is precious and fleeting. Yeah. And it kind of 00:19:14.109 --> 00:19:16.569 makes you wonder if AI can ever really capture 00:19:16.569 --> 00:19:19.299 those delicate and meaningful moments. So we've 00:19:19.299 --> 00:19:21.039 gone through all these different ideas about 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:24.079 artificial immortality, the science, the philosophy, 00:19:24.180 --> 00:19:26.619 the technology, even religion. It's a lot to 00:19:26.619 --> 00:19:28.859 take in. And it's clear that this field is changing 00:19:28.859 --> 00:19:31.839 so rapidly and it raises these huge questions 00:19:31.839 --> 00:19:33.940 about what it means to be human. Especially in 00:19:33.940 --> 00:19:35.740 a world that's becoming more and more dominated 00:19:35.740 --> 00:19:38.140 by tech. I mean, what stood out to you? I think 00:19:38.140 --> 00:19:40.359 it's just incredible how many different perspectives 00:19:40.359 --> 00:19:43.119 there are and how fast this research is moving 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:46.160 from mind files to brain organoids to these super 00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:50.130 realistic androids. What's possible is changing 00:19:50.130 --> 00:19:52.569 all the time. So what about you listening to 00:19:52.569 --> 00:19:54.789 all this? What are your thoughts? Yeah, what 00:19:54.789 --> 00:19:57.230 parts of artificial immortality give you hope 00:19:57.230 --> 00:19:59.630 and what parts make you feel a little uneasy? 00:20:00.250 --> 00:20:02.250 And here's one last question to think about. 00:20:02.309 --> 00:20:05.589 Okay. If we could actually achieve some form 00:20:05.589 --> 00:20:08.609 of digital immortality, what parts of yourself 00:20:08.609 --> 00:20:11.890 would you want to preserve? Your memories, your 00:20:11.890 --> 00:20:14.140 personality. Your experiences. And maybe even 00:20:14.140 --> 00:20:16.599 more importantly, what parts of being human might 00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:19.460 get lost in that process? That's a great question. 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:22.299 It's a lot to ponder. Yeah, it really is. We 00:20:22.299 --> 00:20:24.079 hope you'll keep exploring these ideas, Hammond. 00:20:24.099 --> 00:20:27.299 Dig deeper into the science, the ethics, the 00:20:27.299 --> 00:20:29.839 philosophy. Yeah. Maybe even think about what 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:31.940 role you want to play in shaping this future. 00:20:32.180 --> 00:20:34.019 Because it's a future that's coming, whether 00:20:34.019 --> 00:20:36.420 we're ready or not. Thanks for taking this deep 00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:37.880 dive with us. It's been fascinating.