All right, so have you heard about this computer
powered by real human brain cells? Oh yeah, this
is wild stuff. It sounds like science fiction,
right? It really does. But we've been going through
all this material. This is actually real. This
is not a movie. And this Australian company,
Cortical Labs, they just launched this thing
called the CL1. I've been following them for
a while. Yeah, and the crazy thing is it combines
like Living human brain cells with like silicon
hardware right to make a new kind of AI. It's
really a fundamental shift I think yeah You know
moving beyond just the the silicon based AI that
we're used to right into this whole other realm
of what they're calling synthetic biological
intelligence, right? So the co1 it's not just
another you know, complex algorithm or something
like that. It's like it's actually using the
learning capabilities of neurons, like, you know,
real biological, real biological material. Yeah.
And then the advantages are like. almost unbelievable.
It's like more flexible, learns way faster, uses
a lot less energy, and it's potentially way more
efficient. Much more efficient, yeah. Than the
AI that we have now. Right. And this synthetic
biological intelligence, or SBI as they're calling
it. Catchy. Yeah, they just introduced it officially
in Barcelona on March 2nd, 2025. Very recent.
Yeah. just the other day. And scientists are
really excited about it because they think this
could be like a huge breakthrough. I think so
too. Especially for like medical research. Think
about it a whole new way to like approach health
challenges and stuff. Absolutely. And I think
what's really interesting from a bigger picture
perspective is that traditional AI, it could
be so powerful, but it takes so much computing
power. Yeah. So much energy. So much energy.
But to think about how efficient our own biological
systems are for computation, it's a really compelling
idea. And the fact that these brain cells, they
can evolve and learn constantly, it's a game
changer. Yeah, it's not just static. It's alive.
It's alive and it's constantly learning. And
the way they do it is they take regular blood
or skin cells and they do this. crazy science,
and they turn them into stem cells. And then
the stem cells can become any kind of cell in
the body. And they basically make them into brain
cells or neurons. And then those are like the
building blocks of the computer. Wow. Yeah, pretty
wild. That's amazing. But this isn't their first
time doing this. They did this thing back in
20... that got a lot of attention. The dish brain,
right? The dish brain, yeah. So they basically
grew like 800 ,000 human and mouse neurons on
a chip. And they taught it to play pong. They
taught it to play pong. That's crazy. You remember
Elsie Blaine? Oh yeah. The science writer? Yeah.
She was all over that. Yeah, she was all over
that. Talking about how this neural network could...
Teach itself it could adapt to new situations
even make new connections based on like what
was happening in the game That's wild really
put cortical labs on the map. Yeah and and back
in 2023 Brett Kagan who's the chief scientific
officer at cortical labs? He was saying okay.
This technology is like a whole new form of life
Interesting. It's not an animal. It's not a human.
It's something totally different right and he
was saying it's like a mechanical and engineering
approach to intelligence but built with like
Real neurons which is just mind -blowing when
you think about it It's like a totally different
way of thinking about intelligence and maybe
even life itself totally and now fast forward
to today Yeah, the cl1 is not just some research
project. It's like it's a product It's a product
that you can buy that you can buy researchers
can get their hands on it That's huge and start
using it. So let's break it down. Okay, what
is the cl1 biocomputer? Yeah, you know, what
is it all about? So from what I've been reading
the cl1 it's not just like a little chip that
you stick in your computer. It's like a whole
system. And the human brain cells, they're like,
they live in this unit that takes care of them
and keeps them alive. Oh, so it's like a... Yeah,
like a life support system. The life support
system for these brain cells. Yeah. Okay. Dr.
Han Wangchang, who's the founder and CEO of Cortical
Labs, he's been saying that this is like the
biggest moment for the company in like their
whole six -year journey. And he's even comparing
it to that famous Pong experiment. that they
published in Neuron. And it's cool to see how
they've come from that research to this actual
product. But it's also made it clear that they've
always wanted to make this technology more accessible
to more people. So you don't need like a million
dollars in a special lab. Exactly. You don't
need the fancy hardware, the fancy software.
The CL1 is how they're doing that. They're making
it so anyone can use it. And they came up with
this very interesting term. What's that? wetware
as a service. Okay, I like that. Yeah, so basically,
customers can either buy the CL1, like the actual
unit, or they can rent access to it. Or remotely.
Remotely through the cloud. Interesting. It's
like software as a service, but for brain power.
but with real biological components. Yeah. That's
fascinating. So it makes it a lot easier for
people to use it. Right. Like it lowers the barrier
to entry. Yeah. Dr. Chalm thinks this could empower
millions of researchers and inventors and just
people with big ideas who might not have the
resources to build this kind of system themselves.
Yeah. It's like democratizing this really advanced
technology. Yeah. In cortical labs, they're not
just providing the hardware. Right. They're providing
the tools and the support. Yeah. To help people
make new discoveries. So it's like a whole platform.
Exactly. And when you think about the potential
applications, it's like mind -blowing. It can
change so many things. So many things. Like for
example, substance discovery. Yeah. Like finding
new drugs. Right. It could be way faster, way
more efficient. Imagine being able to test like
new drugs. Yeah. On actual living neural networks.
Yeah. that are like, you know, human brain tissue.
Like a mini brain. Yeah. And then you can see
exactly what it does. You can see how the cells
react. Yeah. See if it's effective. Yeah. Without
having to, you know, use animal testing. Yeah.
And it could be a lot more accurate, too, because
it's like... It's the real thing. The real thing.
Not a simulation. And it could change clinical
trials. Like the way we test new treatments.
Yeah. And even like robotics. Oh yeah. Like we
could have robots that are like way more adaptable
and customizable. Robots with real intelligence?
Yeah. They can learn and grow. Yeah. That's incredible.
And they're aiming to have this... widely available
in the second half of 2025. Yeah, which makes
me think they're pretty confident. Yeah. Yeah,
they must be pretty far along if they're going
to make it available to everybody. Yeah. And
some researchers got to visit cortical labs in
Melbourne. Oh, wow. And they were saying, it's
not just about playing pong. It's way more than
that. Much more. It's like a whole new way of
computing. It is a new paradigm for computation.
So what's so special about the CL1? Technologically.
Technologically. What makes it tick? Okay, so
even the name CL1. Yeah. Shows that it's a step
up from the dish brain. Yeah. The hardware is
simpler, it's more stable. Okay. But the really
cool stuff is in the wetware. The wetware. The
brain cells. Yeah. They figured out how to grow
a neural network that's more like a real brain.
Like a mini brain or something. They call it
a minimal viable brain. Minimal viable brain.
Yeah. OK. Amazing. And how do they connect to
these brain cells? Well, they use these things
called planar electrode arrays. OK. So these
are like little flat structures made of metal
and glass. OK. And they have like 59 electrodes
on them. OK. And these electrodes, they're like
the communication points between the computer
system and the neurons. OK. They use this advanced
CCOS technology to exchange information. So they
can like stimulate the cells and also read what
the cells are doing. Exactly. They can stimulate
them and they can record the activity. Okay.
And the coolest thing that they found in those
dish brain experiments is that the neurons, they
kind of like predictability. Predictability?
Yeah. When they make connections that lead to
like stable outcomes, they strengthen those connections.
So they learn? They learn, yeah. Okay. But when
their activity is like random and chaotic, they
avoid that. They don't like that. They don't
like that. They want order. They want order.
So they're constantly, like, self -optimizing.
Exactly. Based on what works and what doesn't.
Yeah, it's like a built -in learning mechanism.
That's why. Driven by this need for stability
and efficiency. And they upgraded from that old
CMOS ship. Oh, yeah. That they were using before.
Which had some problems. Yeah, it was like opaque,
so you couldn't see the cells. Right. And it
could build up electrical charge. Yeah, which
wasn't good for the cells. So they came up with
a new system. They did. That's way more precise.
Right. And it keeps the cells healthier. Yeah,
it's a much better environment. So they can live
longer. For the neurons to thrive. Yeah. And
all of this is housed in this... Life support
unit. This body in a box. The body in a box.
Yeah, it's got like filtration, liquid storage
pumps, gas mixing, temperature control. It's
like a high -tech aquarium. Yeah, it's like a
little world for the neurons. A little world,
yeah. And they're building this crazy thing in
Melbourne. What's that? It's a biological neural
network server stack. Okay, so like a server
farm. Yeah, but with brains. With brains. Yeah.
Wow. 30 CL1 units all connected together. And
that's just the beginning. It's just the beginning.
They want to scale it up. Yeah. And they think
it'll be online in a few months. Yeah, this is
happening, like, right now. This is the future
happening now. So what's next for them? Well,
they want to have four of these stacks. Four?
Yeah. Wow. By the end of the year. OK. And they're
going to be accessible through the cloud. So
even more people can use them. Exactly. Anyone
with an internet connection can tap into this
brain power. And the price is coming down. Yeah,
it's still pretty expensive. $35 ,000 per unit.
Right. But that's way cheaper than some of the
other options. Some of the other systems are
like $85 ,000. Yeah. But Cortical Labs, they're
working on making it even cheaper. So it'll be
more affordable. Yeah, for more researchers and
companies. And it's super energy efficient. Yeah,
a full rack of these CL1s only uses like 850
to 1 ,000 watts. That's like nothing. It's way
less than a traditional computer cluster. Yeah,
it's crazy. For the same amount of processing
power. And it's programmable. You can program
the brain. Yeah, you can talk to the neurons.
That's wild. And they can talk back. It's two
-way communication. Yeah, so they can learn and
adapt in real -time. Real -time learning. And
you don't even need a separate computer to use
it. It's a self -contained system. Yeah, it's
amazing. The possibilities are endless. So what
are they going to use this for? What are the
immediate applications? Well, drug discovery
is a big one. Yeah. Being able to actually see
how neurons grow and connect under a microscope
in response to different drugs or treatments,
that's going to be huge for research. And it's
accessible to anyone through the cloud. Right.
So even if you can't afford to buy a CL1, you
can still use it. That's really cool. It's democratizing
science. And they're using these special stem
cells. Induced. pluripotent stem cells. Yeah,
from blood samples. Yeah, so they take a blood
sample. Yeah. And they turn those cells back
into stem cells. Wow. Which can become any type
of cell. Yeah. And then they turn them into neurons.
So it's like personalized brain cells. In a way.
From your own blood. That's incredible. Yeah.
It really is. And they use two methods to make
the neurons. Right. One is with molecules. Yeah,
they expose the stem cells to these molecules
that mimic brain development. OK. And that way
is faster. for making lots of cells. But is it
as good? Well, the other way is to modify the
genes. Okay. And that's more precise. Okay. You
can get more specific types of neurons. But is
it slower? It is slower. Yeah. Is there like
trading off speed and precision? Yeah. It depends
on what you need for your research. Right. But
the ultimate goal is to build that minimal viable
brain. Yeah. A functional brain. Yeah. That can
do real thinking. And that's still a challenge.
It is a huge challenge. Yeah. But the CL1 is
a big step in the right direction. Yeah. It's
a tool that can help us understand the brain
better. And maybe even build a better brain.
Exactly. And it could help us develop new treatments
for brain disorders. Absolutely. And maybe even
reduce the need for animal testing. Yeah. That's
a big ethical consideration. Yeah. Yeah, so it's
a really powerful technology. It is. With a lot
of potential. And a lot of responsibility. We
have to be careful with this. So to recap, we've
been talking about the CL1. The world's first
commercially available biocomputer. Powered by
living human brain cells. It's amazing. It's
totally different from traditional AI. Yeah,
it learns faster, it's more flexible, it uses
less energy. And it could change everything.
From medicine to robotics. And everything in
between. And the best part is, it's accessible
to everyone. Through the cloud. Yeah, anyone
can use it. So for you listening, think about
this. This CL1, it can learn and adapt like a
real brain. Right. So what does that mean for
us? What are the implications? Yeah, what are
the ethical implications? The philosophical implications.
Yeah, as this technology gets more powerful.
As it becomes more widespread. Yeah, and more
integrated into our lives. It's a big question.
Yeah, it's a big question. That we need to be
thinking about. Yeah, because we're really at
the beginning. The dawn of a new era. Of something
completely new. Biological computing? Yeah. It's
exciting and a little bit scary. Yeah, definitely
a lot to think about. A lot to think about. But
that's why we do this show. To explore these
big ideas. Yeah, and to get you thinking. To
get the conversation started. Yeah, so thanks
for joining us. Thanks for having me. And we'll
see you next time. Until next time. On the deep
dive. On the deep dive. Into the future. Into
the future.