Hey everyone and welcome back for another deep dive.
Today we are going to be exploring something
that's been generating a lot of buzz lately
in the energy world.
Small modular reactors or SMRs.
You know you've sent us a bunch of really interesting stuff
about how China's kind of leading the way
with these next generation reactors.
Yeah they're really pushing ahead.
So we're super excited to like dig in tall that with you.
Absolutely.
But before we like get ahead of ourselves,
let's start with like just the basics.
You know for anyone who's maybe not totally familiar.
Okay.
What exactly are SMRs and like why is everyone
suddenly making such a big deal about them?
So basically SMRs are kind of like mini nuclear reactors.
You know they're like way smaller than the traditional ones
we're used to.
Like a fraction of the size.
Interesting.
We're talking like 110th to 14th.
Wow.
And what's really exciting about them is that they could
totally change the way we think about nuclear power.
Like imagine instead of these massive multi-billion dollar
projects that take forever to build.
Yeah.
We have these smaller, more flexible reactors
that can be built in factories and shipped anywhere.
Oh wow that's super interesting.
Yeah it's like a whole new ball game.
It's almost like Legos.
Legos for clean energy.
Exactly.
That's a really cool way to think about it.
And I know you're you know really passionate
about clean energy.
Definitely.
So this has got to be like right up your alley.
Absolutely.
It's super exciting to see this technology developing.
Yeah and SMRs you know they produce power
without those greenhouse gases.
So it makes them a really attractive option.
You know as we're trying to find these cleaner ways
to power the world.
Exactly.
It's a critical part of the solution.
Totally.
And you know it's interesting because there's this whole
global race going on right now.
Really.
Oh yeah to develop SMRs.
Wow.
Like all over the world there are teams working on this.
I had no idea.
Yep.
Tons of different designs and development.
Over 80 actually.
80.
That's a lot.
It shows you how much attention this technology is getting.
Yeah that's incredible.
Yeah but you know from what we've seen.
Yeah.
China seems to be way ahead of the pack.
That's what our sources are saying too.
Yeah they're really out there in front.
Yeah so like how so.
Well for one thing.
Okay.
They actually already have SMRs up and running.
Wow seriously.
Yep pumping power into their grid as we speak.
That's amazing.
It is.
It's a big milestone.
Okay so can we talk about these Chinese SMRs then?
Like I'm dying to know what makes them tick.
Okay so the first one is called the HTRPM.
Okay.
And it's actually the world's first grid connected SMR.
Oh wow.
So that's a pretty big deal in itself.
Yeah.
And this one uses this really unique pebble bed design.
Pebble bed.
Yeah so picture this.
Thousands of these tiny uranium fuel pellets.
Okay.
All encased in graphite.
Uh huh.
And they're all cooled by helium.
Helium oh wait like the stuff in balloons.
Yep that's the one.
I had no idea you could use that in a nuclear reactor.
It's pretty wild right?
It is.
But it's actually a really ingenious technology.
Okay.
So the combination of the pebble bed and the helium
creates this super safe system.
Okay.
Because even if something goes wrong
the reactor basically cools itself down.
So like it's designed to prevent meltdowns.
Exactly it's inherently very safe.
That's really reassuring especially after you know
accidents like Fukushima.
Right.
That really shook people's trust in nuclear power.
Yeah definitely.
But you said China has another operational SMR too right?
They do.
The Linglong one.
Yes that's right.
What's the story with that one?
Well this one is interesting because it just passed
this independent safety assessment.
Oh wow.
By the International Atomic Energy Agency.
Okay.
So that's like the gold standard for nuclear safety.
So it's a pretty big deal.
Huge.
It gives SMRs a lot of international credibility.
So it's like a stamp of approval from the experts.
Exactly.
Okay that's really interesting.
Yeah it's a major step forward for the whole industry.
But what about costs though?
Aren't SMRs supposed to be cheaper to build
than those traditional nuclear plants?
Well that's the million dollar question isn't it?
Yeah.
Everyone wants to know the answer to that.
Right.
And while the idea of cheaper nuclear power
is super appealing.
Sure.
The reality is a bit more complicated.
Mmm.
So early days.
Okay.
You know and there are a lot of opinions out there.
Yeah our sources had some mixed information on that too.
Right.
Like one study said that current SMR projects
might not be like economically viable yet.
Yeah it's a valid concern.
But then we found this Australian report.
Okay.
And it predicted that the price of SMRs
could like drop dramatically.
Interesting.
In the next five years.
Similar to what happened with solar power.
Oh right.
Remember how expensive those solar panels used to be?
Oh yeah.
They're everywhere.
It's true.
Costs have come down a lot.
So could SMRs follow that same path?
That's the big question isn't it?
Yeah.
Like could they become that affordable?
Well it's possible.
But you know we have to remember
the solar power revolution was driven
by a bunch of different factors.
Like what?
Government subsidies.
Yeah.
Technological advancements.
Economies of scale.
Okay.
So it's not a guarantee that SMRs
will follow that same trajectory.
Right.
Definitely something to watch closely.
Totally.
It'll be interesting to see how things develop.
Yeah.
And speaking of watching things closely.
Have you heard about what's happening in the tech world?
What's that?
Like big companies.
You know.
Like Microsoft, Google.
Even Amazon.
They're starting to invest in SMR companies.
Oh yeah.
That's right.
I mean that's a pretty big deal right?
It is.
It shows that even these tech giants.
Yeah.
Are seeing the potential of SMRs.
Makes sense.
Especially as they're trying to find cleaner energy.
Yeah.
To power all their massive data centers.
Right.
Because those data centers are huge energy hogs.
They are.
It's a big challenge for them.
Yeah.
And I was reading that Amazon invested in this SMR startup
called Xenergy.
I did hear about that.
And it caused like this huge buzz in the industry.
Yeah.
It was big news.
And apparently their stock like went through the roof
after the announcement.
Yeah.
Definitely got people's attention.
Yeah.
It seems like everyone is suddenly paying attention to SMRs.
They are.
They're not talking about that topic right now.
But you know with all this excitement.
Yeah.
We can't ignore some of the bigger concerns
about nuclear power in general.
That's true.
There are still important issues to address.
Yeah.
You're talking about nuclear waste.
Right.
Yeah.
That's a big one.
It's a major issue for any kind of nuclear technology.
Right.
Including these new SMRs.
Absolutely.
It's something we can't just brush aside.
Okay.
So let's talk about that then.
Sure.
Like how do these smaller reactors change things.
Okay.
When it comes to dealing with nuclear waste.
Yeah.
That's a really important question.
It is.
It's a question that a lot of researchers
are trying to figure out right now.
Yeah.
You see nuclear waste is basically what's left over
after the uranium fuel.
Uh huh.
Is used up in a reactor.
Right.
It's radioactive.
And it has to be stored very carefully
for a very long time.
Okay.
So like how long are we talking?
Decades.
Centuries.
Think bigger.
Like way bigger.
Oh wow.
Some of this high level waste we're talking about
needs to be isolated.
Okay.
For tens of thousands of years before it's safe.
Oh.
Millennia.
Literally.
That's mind boggling.
It is.
It's a huge challenge.
So what do we do with it then?
Just bury it and like hope for the best.
It's a little more complicated than that.
Okay.
But essentially yeah.
Yeah.
Right now spent nuclear fuel is stored
in these pools of water.
Yeah.
To cool it down.
Uh huh.
And then it's transferred to these super tough,
dry casks.
Okay.
For long term storage.
Got it.
Deep underground in these specially designed repositories.
Okay.
That sounds pretty intense.
It is.
It's a serious process.
I bet it costs a fortune too.
It does.
So is that where SMRs and waste gets tricky?
That's part of it yeah.
Okay.
Because some people argue that since SMRs are smaller.
Right.
And potentially more efficient.
Uh huh.
They might actually produce less waste overall.
All right.
That makes sense to me.
Smaller reactor, less fuel, needed less waste left over.
Exactly.
That's the thinking.
Okay.
In practice it's not quite that straightforward.
Oh, how so?
Remember that Stanford study we mentioned?
Yeah.
It suggested that the way most SMRs are designed right now.
Okay.
Might actually lead to more waste.
More waste.
Yeah.
Per unit of energy.
Hold on.
So even though the reactors are smaller.
Right.
They could produce more waste.
Per megawatt of power.
Yeah.
How does that even work?
It all comes down to the fuel cycle.
Okay.
And the reactor design.
Got it.
Some SMRs are super efficient with fuel.
Uh huh.
While others need refueling more often.
Okay.
Which ends up creating more waste over time.
So it's not as simple as it seems.
Nope.
It's complicated.
It really is.
And that's why research into these advanced fuel cycles.
Yeah.
And better waste management tech.
Uh huh.
Is so important for making nuclear power, including SMRs.
Right.
A viable long-term solution.
Totally.
It sounds like we still have a way to go.
Before we can confidently say SMRs are like a totally clean
and sustainable option.
That's fair to say.
But hey, at least there's a ton of investment going
into this field right now.
That's true.
There's a lot of momentum.
Especially with those big tech companies jumping on board.
Oh yeah.
That's a game changer.
It is.
And you know, it's important to remember.
Okay.
Those investments aren't just about profits.
Right.
They're driven by this urgent need to address climate change.
Yeah.
Data centers, as we know, are massive energy hogs.
Oh, they are.
And these companies are under a lot of pressure
to clean up their operations.
Yeah.
SMRs offer a potential solution.
OK.
Reliable, always on clean energy.
Right.
That doesn't depend on the weather, like solar and wind.
Right.
That's a big advantage.
It is.
But it's not just big tech either.
You're right.
Governments all over the world are pouring money
into SMR research and development.
They are.
It's a global effort.
The UK, for example, has a whole program.
Dedicated to supporting SMRs as part of their strategy
to hit net zero emissions.
That's right.
They're going all in on this.
And Canada and the US are also looking into it.
Yeah.
Everyone's trying to figure out how SMRs fit
into their energy mix.
It's fascinating how each country
has their own unique take on it.
It is.
It really shows the potential of this technology.
Yeah.
It highlights how versatile SMRs could be.
Exactly.
But with any powerful tool, we need
to consider those broader implications.
Absolutely.
We can't just focus on the tech itself.
Yeah.
Like nuclear power, even in a smaller package,
still carries a lot of weight.
It does.
It's a powerful force.
Yeah.
And there are always those concerns
about safety and security.
Right.
We can't ignore that.
Even with all the advanced safety features,
accidents can still happen.
They can.
And we need to be prepared for that possibility.
So it's all about having those rigorous safety protocols.
Absolutely.
And ongoing testing and being transparent with the public.
Exactly.
Building trust is essential.
Yeah, transparency and public engagement
are super important.
I agree.
People need to feel informed and involved in the decisions.
Especially when it comes to something like nuclear power.
For sure.
It's a sensitive topic.
It is.
And it brings up another critical aspect.
What's that?
The economic impact.
Right.
The cost and benefits.
Yeah.
Well, cheaper nuclear power sounds great.
It does.
It's important to make sure those benefits are shared fairly.
And the costs aren't unfairly put on certain communities.
Yeah.
Equity is a huge factor here.
It's about finding that balance.
Absolutely.
Making sure SMRs are part of a just and sustainable energy
transition.
That's the goal.
For everyone.
For everyone, exactly.
It's clear that SMRs have amazing potential.
They do.
To be a big part of our clean energy future.
For sure.
But there's still a lot to learn.
Definitely.
And a lot to consider.
A lot to discuss and debate.
Yeah.
And I think it would be really valuable
to explore some of the other countries working on SMRs.
Oh yeah.
Beyond China.
Besides China.
Yeah.
What do you think?
I think that's a great idea.
OK.
Broadening our perspective is super important.
OK.
Cool.
So let's take a look at what's happening in other parts
of the world.
Like the US, Canada, the UK.
Yeah.
They're all taking different approaches to SMR development.
OK.
So we've talked about China.
We've dug into this whole nuclear waste thing.
But like you said before, the SMR world goes way beyond China.
Oh, definitely.
So what's happening in other parts of the world?
Are they taking different approaches?
Yeah, absolutely.
The race to develop SMRs is a global thing.
OK.
In the US, for example.
Yeah.
They're really focused on using SMRs to replace
those old coal plants.
Oh, interesting.
Yeah.
They see it as a way to decarbonize their energy sector.
OK.
But also still utilize all the existing infrastructure.
That makes sense.
And workforce.
So it's like a clean energy upgrade.
Exactly.
For those old power plants.
Yeah, it's a pretty smart strategy.
It is.
What about Canada, though?
I know they've been exploring SMRs, too.
Yeah, Canada's approach is kind of interesting.
OK.
They're looking at SMRs not just for electricity,
but also for like, industrial applications.
Like what?
So things like providing heat and power
to remote mining operations.
Or even producing hydrogen.
Interesting.
For clean fuel.
Wow.
So they're thinking outside the box.
They are.
They're looking at all sorts of possibilities.
It seems like every country has their own vision,
you know, for how SMRs could fit in.
It's true.
Everyone's got their own priorities.
And the UK is another good example, right?
Oh, yeah.
They want to be like a global leader in SMR tech.
That's their goal.
Not just by using them in the UK,
but by like, exporting their knowledge and designs.
Exactly.
They want to be the go-to experts.
That makes sense.
The UK has a long history with nuclear.
They do.
They've been in the game for a while.
So it's really interesting to see
how these different countries are approaching
this whole SMR thing.
Yeah.
It's all based on their specific needs and resources.
Yeah.
It shows how adaptable the technology could be.
It does.
It's very versatile.
But like, with any powerful tool, you know,
we've got to think about the bigger picture.
Absolutely.
We can't just get tunnel vision.
Yeah.
Like nuclear power.
Even in a smaller package, still has a lot of, you know.
Weight.
Weight, yeah.
That's a powerful force.
There are always those concerns around safety and security.
Right.
That comes with the territory.
Yeah.
Even with all the advanced safety features,
accidents can happen.
That's true.
We can't pretend they can't.
So we have to like, plan for that possibility.
We do.
It's about managing the risks.
So rigorous safety protocols.
For sure.
Ongoing testing.
Yep.
Transparency with the public.
All crucial.
Yeah.
That transparency and public engagement.
Super important.
Couldn't agree more.
People need to feel informed.
Definitely.
And involved.
They have to have a voice.
Especially when it comes to something as big as nuclear.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And that actually brings us to another big thing.
What's that?
The economic impact.
Oh, right.
The money side of things.
Yeah.
Because cheaper nuclear power sounds great.
It does on paper.
But we got to make sure the benefits are shared fairly.
Exactly.
And that the costs aren't like.
Dumped on certain communities.
Exactly.
Yeah.
It has to be equitable.
It's all about finding that balance, right?
It is.
It's a balancing act.
Making sure SMRs are part of a just and sustainable energy
transition for everyone.
That's the ultimate goal.
It's clear that SMRs have this incredible potential.
They do.
To be a huge part of this clean energy future.
No doubt.
But there's still so much to learn.
There is.
And so much to consider.
It's an evolving landscape.
It really is.
And I think on that note to our listener,
we hope this deep dive has given you some food for thought.
Yeah, some things to ponder.
About these fascinating, complex,
favorite evolving things.
Exactly.
Stay curious.
Keep asking those tough questions.
Yeah, don't be afraid to dig deeper.
And remember, the future of energy is in all our hands.
That's a great way to put it.