Okay, so nuclear power, right?
I mean, it's kind of scary, isn't it?
Like glowing green goo and mushroom clouds.
I mean, but what if there was like a totally different way
to do nuclear, I mean, a safer way, a cleaner way?
Well, there might be.
Oh, really?
It's called thorium.
Thorium, huh?
Okay, I'm listening.
And actually, it's not just an idea anymore.
China, they just started up the world's first
thorium molten salt reactor.
Wow.
And they're aiming to have it fully operational by 2029.
That's incredible.
Okay, so molten salt, huh?
Before we get into that,
could you just give us a really quick nuclear power 101?
Sure.
So imagine you have a teeny, tiny atom.
And I mean like super, super tiny,
smaller than you can even imagine.
Okay, got it, tiny atom.
And you split it.
When you split that atom,
it releases a ton of energy,
like a huge amount of energy as heat.
Okay.
And we can use that heat to generate electricity.
Got it.
So it's kind of like,
if you braid a stick,
you have those smaller pieces, right?
But you also have that like,
that little burst of energy, right?
When you snap it.
Exactly.
Okay.
So like traditional nuclear plants,
they use uranium for this.
And they do it all in solid fuel rods.
But thorium reactors, they're different.
They use a liquid salt mixture.
Okay.
As both the coolant and the fuel source.
Liquid salt.
Liquid, okay, now,
my brain is starting to melt a little bit.
Yeah.
What's so special about this liquid salt?
Why liquid salt?
From a safety perspective, it's a game changer.
Oh, really?
Yeah.
These salts have these crazy high boiling points,
like over 1400 degrees Celsius.
Whoa.
That means they don't have to be kept under
like immense pressure,
like the water that's used in traditional reactors.
Oh, okay.
And you know, if you think back to Chernobyl,
that's what made that disaster so bad.
Yeah.
That's the pressure.
I mean, I don't really want to think about Chernobyl.
No, nobody does.
But so this liquid salt,
it's not gonna, you know.
Exeload.
Yeah.
It's not gonna explode.
Pretty much no.
It's like inherently more stable.
And get this,
if there is a leak,
the salt will solidify.
Yeah.
Containing the reaction.
So it's like a self-sealing tire.
Exactly.
It prevents a major blowout.
Wow.
Yeah.
And plus, because the fuel's constantly mixing in
this liquid salt,
you don't have to shut down the reactor to refuel it,
which makes it super efficient.
Oh, wow.
That is, that's amazing.
Yeah.
Okay.
Molten salt check.
I get it.
But let's talk about thorium itself.
What is, I mean,
how is it different from the uranium
that we always hear about?
So thorium itself,
it's not directly fissile,
meaning it can't sustain a chain reaction,
a nuclear chain reaction on its own.
Okay.
But it is what we call fertile.
Fertile, what do you mean?
It can create more nuclear fuel.
Whoa.
Like think of it like a seed.
A seed can't feed you directly,
but if you plant it,
it can grow into something that you can eat.
Okay.
Inside the reactor, thorium absorbs a neutron
and it transforms into uranium 233, which is fissile.
Okay.
And it can sustain that chain reaction.
Oh, wow.
And this happens continuously.
So it's like you're making fuel as the reactor is running.
Exactly.
That's incredible.
So we're not just talking about a different type of reactor.
We're talking about a completely different fuel source.
Right.
What are the advantages
of using thorium over traditional uranium?
Well, for one, thorium is much more abundant than uranium.
Yeah.
You can find it pretty much everywhere.
Okay.
But the really big difference is in the waste.
Oh yeah, the waste.
That's always the big concern with nuclear.
Exactly.
Thorium produces way, way less radioactive waste.
Okay.
And the waste that it does produce decays much, much faster.
How much faster are we talking?
We're talking like a thousand to 10,000 times less waste
than uranium.
Wait, hold on.
A thousand to 10,000 times less.
That's insane.
Like can you give me a visual?
Imagine a landfill just overflowing with nuclear waste.
Yeah.
That's the legacy of uranium reactors.
Right.
Now shrink that entire landfill
down to the size of a refrigerator.
That's how much waste you would get
from a comparable thorium reactor.
That's incredible.
It's a huge difference.
Okay.
So safer reactors, less waste, more abundant fuel.
All sounds pretty good.
But is anybody besides this new project in China
actually like using thorium reactors?
You know, it might surprise you to know
that research on thorium reactors,
it actually goes back decades.
Oh really?
Yeah.
I didn't know that.
There were experimental reactors in the United States
back in the 1960s.
Oh wow.
At Oak Ridge National Laboratory.
But yeah, China is definitely leading the charge right now.
Yeah, they're really going all in on this clean energy thing.
What about this pilot plant they built in the Gobi Desert?
What's the story there?
Yeah, so they completed that pilot plant in 2021.
Okay.
And they picked a very remote location
in the Gobi Desert, most likely for safety reasons.
Yeah, probably a good idea.
But it also highlights a potential downside
of this technology.
Oh.
Scalability.
Building these reactors in remote locations
that might work for pilot projects,
but what happens when we need to scale up
to meet the energy demands of like entire cities?
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.
I mean, those are some pretty huge infrastructure needs.
So what are China's plans to scale this up?
Well, remember that 2029 target date I mentioned
for the commercial reactor?
Yeah.
That's not just any reactor,
it's gonna be a 60 megawatt behemoth.
Whoa, okay.
Yeah.
And it gets even more interesting.
China has this massive global infrastructure project
called the Belt and Road Initiative?
Yeah, I've heard of that.
They're basically laying the groundwork
to potentially become the world's leading energy supplier.
Wow, they are not messing around.
Yeah.
So they're not just thinking about powering China,
they're thinking globally.
Right.
If they pull this off, I mean,
this could have like huge implications
for the whole world's energy landscape.
Absolutely.
It's almost like a sci-fi movie, you know?
Yeah.
It's like a foreign country holding the keys
to this incredible new energy source.
But, you know, I guess it makes sense
when you think about it,
this whole thorium reactor thing,
it's not happening in isolation.
This is part of like this much bigger conversation
that we're all having about climate change,
about fossil fuels, about, you know,
what the future of energy looks like.
It's like we're all trying to put together
this giant puzzle.
Yeah.
And maybe thorium is like one of the missing pieces.
It could be.
But at this point now where,
I mean, everybody knows we have to move away
from fossil fuels.
Right.
But figuring out how to do that on a global scale,
I mean, that's really complicated.
It is.
It's a huge challenge.
We hear all the time about renewable energy,
you know, solar, wind, hydroelectric,
but those aren't perfect solutions either, are they?
Exactly.
I mean, they're amazing.
Don't get me wrong, they're great.
Yeah.
But they're also intermittent.
Right.
The sun's not always shining, the wind's not always blowing.
Right, right.
So we need something that can provide consistent,
reliable power no matter what.
Yeah, we need that baseload power.
Right, something that can act as a foundation
for that whole energy grid.
Exactly.
And that's where thorium reactors come in.
Potentially, yeah.
They could be that reliable baseload power source.
But without all the baggage of fossil fuels.
Right.
And as we talk about, the safety advantages
over uranium reactors are, I mean, they're huge.
They are.
Less waste, less risk, more abundant fuel.
It's a pretty good package.
It is.
But even if the technology is there, you know.
Yeah.
There's always that human element, right?
Yeah.
And just talk about the economics, the politics of all this.
I mean, China, inventing so heavily in thorium,
that could have some pretty major consequences
for the rest of the world.
Yeah, you're right.
It's not just about the technology itself,
it's about who controls it.
If China corners the market on thorium reactors,
it would give them a massive amount of power on the world
stage.
Help me understand that.
Like, what would that kind of power dynamic actually
look like in real life?
Imagine multiple countries, depending on China,
for their energy needs.
Suddenly, trade deals, international relations,
even military alliances, they could all
be influenced by who has access to this clean energy.
Wow.
It could completely shift the balance of global power.
So this isn't just about clean energy,
it's about energy dominance.
This is like something out of a futuristic thriller novel
or something.
It does kind of have that sci-fi feel to it, doesn't it?
But that's the reality that we're facing.
The decisions that we make about energy now,
they're going to have ripple effects for generations to come.
I mean, it's a lot to process.
But I think it's so important for people
to understand that this is about way more than just the science.
This is about economics, it's about politics,
it's about the future of the planet.
Absolutely.
And speaking of the future, I want
to go back to something that we were talking about earlier.
Radioactive waste.
It's a huge concern with traditional nuclear power,
but thorium reactors could really change the game.
Yeah, even though thorium produces way less waste,
we're still talking about radioactive material.
That has to be carefully managed.
How do we actually deal with nuclear waste?
That's the big question.
You get in smaller amounts.
Yeah, there are a few different approaches
that people are looking into.
And the best solution probably depends on the type of waste
and where it needs to be stored.
OK, so what are some of the leading contenders
in the nuclear waste disposal game?
One approach is deep geological disposal.
Basically, you bury the waste deep underground
in very stable rock formations.
There are a few potential sites around the world
that scientists are evaluating for this.
So you're putting it in a super secure underground vault.
Pretty much, yeah.
The goal is to isolate it from the environment
for thousands of years, allowing it to decay safely.
OK, what about other options?
I mean, I'm guessing there's no one size fits all solution here.
You're right, there isn't.
Another approach is reprocessing.
That involves separating the usable components from the waste
and then recycling them back into the fuel cycle.
Think of it like recycling paper or plastic,
but for nuclear material.
OK, so recycling nuclear waste.
Yeah.
That sounds intense.
It is.
It's complex.
Yeah.
But it could dramatically reduce the amount of waste
that needs to be stored long term.
Yeah, that would be huge.
And then there's this really cool concept
that a company called Terrapower is developing.
It's called an energy bank.
Oh, yeah, the energy bank.
Yeah.
The giant nuclear battery.
It's essentially a massive thermal storage system.
It can absorb excess heat from the reactor
and then release it later when it's needed.
So instead of having to constantly adjust the reactor's
output to match demand, you can store the extra energy.
Exactly.
It's like having this giant energy buffer.
That's amazing.
So you have a study surge in demand.
You can just tap into the energy bank.
Oh, wow.
Instead of having to like ramp up the reactor.
It works the other way, too.
Yeah.
Like if demand is low, you can just store it of extra energy.
Exactly, it makes integrating nuclear power
into a grid that relies on inamidant renewables like solar
and wind, much more manageable.
Yeah, it's like this energy bank could be the key
to a really sustainable energy future.
It could be.
I'm really impressed by all the innovation that's
happening in this space.
It is.
It's a really exciting time.
Yeah.
It feels like from futuristic molten salt reactors
to giant nuclear batteries, it feels
like we're on the edge of this major energy revolution.
I think we are.
But as with any revolution, there
could be some challenges along the way.
Oh, absolutely.
We've talked about the potential of thorium reactors,
but it's important to be realistic about the hurdles
that we need to overcome before they can really
become a mainstream energy source.
Yeah, totally.
And those are the hurdles that we're
going to be talking about in the final part of our deep dive.
All right.
I'm ready.
Let's do it.
So we've talked about all the amazing potential
of these thorium reactors, safer, cleaner, less waste.
But let's be real.
If this technology is so great, how come we're not all
using thorium-powered toasters by now?
There's got to be some challenges holding it back.
Oh, no, absolutely.
It's not all perfect.
There are some real hurdles that need to be overcome
before these thorium reactors can really become a widespread
thing.
OK, so give it to me straight.
What are the biggest roadblocks?
Well, one of the biggest is actually a materials problem.
Remember, we were talking about those molten salts,
the ones that make these reactors so safe?
Well, they also happen to be incredibly corrosive.
Corrosive, meaning they can eat away at the reactor itself.
Exactly.
We're talking about a liquid that's basically
superheated lava.
And it can degrade even the toughest materials over time.
So finding materials that can withstand that for years,
that's a huge engineering challenge.
So it's not just about building the reactor.
It's about finding stuff that can actually
hold this molten salt monster.
It's like a material science arms race.
Wow.
And it's not just about the reactor vessel itself.
You need pumps.
You need valves.
You need pipes.
All kinds of components that need
to be able to operate in this crazy harsh environment.
Yeah.
So we're talking specialized alloys, ceramics,
all this high tech stuff.
Absolutely.
Cutting edge materials that are still being developed.
Yeah.
And I could only imagine that that stuff is not cheap.
Does that mean that thorium reactors are just
too expensive to be practical?
Well, cost is definitely a big factor.
I mean, building any nuclear reactor is a huge investment.
And thorium reactors, because they're so new,
they are even more expensive.
There's a lot of uncertainty about how much they'll
cost to build, how much they'll cost to operate.
So that can make investors a little hesitant.
Yeah.
So it's kind of a chicken and egg situation.
Right.
We need more research and development
to bring the costs down.
But to get that research funded, you
need a big upfront investment.
Exactly.
And that's where government support and private investment
become crucial.
And we have seen some progress on that front.
But it's still an uphill battle.
OK.
And then there's the whole regulatory landscape.
Right.
I mean, nuclear power is one of the most heavily regulated
industries in the world.
Absolutely.
And for good reason.
Yeah.
But how do those regulations affect the development
of these thorium reactors?
Well, because thorium reactors are
so different from the traditional uranium reactors,
the existing regulations, they might not be enough.
OK.
They might not really address the unique safety
and operational aspects of this new technology.
So we might need to update the rollbook.
Yeah.
It's possible.
Before these reactors can really take off.
It's definitely a possibility.
And creating new regulations, that takes time.
Yeah.
It has to be a really careful process
to make sure that everything is safe,
that we're meeting environmental standards.
But we also don't want to stifle innovation.
Right.
It's a balance.
It's a tough balance.
Yeah.
OK.
No easy answer.
Yeah.
But let's try to be optimistic for a second.
Let's say we can overcome all this.
OK.
The materials, the cost, the regulations.
What does a future look like with thorium reactors?
Well, if we can clear those hurdles,
the future is, it's pretty amazing.
Imagine a world where we have abundant, clean energy,
but without the fear of meltdowns or mountains
of radioactive waste.
I mean, thorium reactors, they could completely
change how we power our cities, our industries, even our homes.
It's like hitting the reset button on our whole relationship
with nuclear power.
Absolutely.
We could finally break our dependence on fossil fuels
and really make some serious progress
in the fight against climate change.
And beyond the environmental benefits,
there are economic benefits, geopolitical benefits.
I mean, countries that embrace this technology,
they could become energy independent.
They could become leaders in this new global energy economy.
It's a really compelling vision.
It is.
One worth fighting for, even if it means facing some tough
challenges along the way.
Yeah, I agree.
The potential benefits are just too big to ignore.
So as we wrap up our deep dive into thorium reactors,
what are the key takeaways you want our listeners to remember?
I think the most important message
is that thorium reactors, they represent a real, tangible path
to a cleaner, more sustainable energy future.
They offer solutions to some of the biggest problems
that we're facing.
But it's not a magic bullet.
No, it's not a magic bullet.
We still have work to do.
Right.
There are obstacles overcome.
Yes.
And ultimately, it comes down to making informed choices.
We need to have honest conversations
about the kind of future we want to create.
In thorium reactors, they deserve a place in that conversation.
I think so too.
The transition to a new energy paradigm,
it's going to take collaboration.
It's going to take innovation and a willingness
to embrace new ideas.
Absolutely.
So to everyone listening, I want to leave you with this.
Imagine a world powered by thorium reactors.
What would your life look like?
What possibilities would it unlock?
It's a future worth exploring.
Thanks for joining us on the deep dive.
All right, so we've covered all this incredible potential
right with thorium reactors, safer, cleaner, less waste.
But honestly, if it's so groundbreaking,
why isn't everybody using thorium already?
Why aren't we all making toast with thorium power?
There's got to be some pretty serious challenges holding
it back, right?
Yeah, it's not all sunshine and rainbows.
There are definitely some hurdles to clear.
OK, so lay it on me.
What are the big ones?
Like what's standing in the way of the thorium revolution?
Well, one of the toughest challenges
is actually a materials problem.
Oh, OK.
Interesting.
You know those molten salts we keep talking about?
Yeah, yeah, the magic molten salts.
The ones that make it all so safe,
well, they're also super corrosive.
Corrosive, so like they could eat away at the reactor itself.
Exactly.
We're talking about a liquid that's basically
like super heated lava.
Whoa, OK.
And it can damage even the toughest materials over time.
Yeah.
So finding materials that can withstand
that kind of extreme environment for years on end,
that's a huge engineering challenge.
So it's not even just building the reactor.
It's finding stuff that can actually contain it, right?
It's like a material science arms race.
Wow.
And it's not just the reactor vessel itself.
You need pumps and valves and pipes.
All sorts of components that have to operate reliably
in this super harsh environment.
Yeah, so you're talking like super alloys, ceramics.
Yeah, cutting edge materials that are still being developed.
Yeah, which I imagine is not cheap.
No.
So I mean, does that make thorium reactors just too
expensive to really be practical?
Cost is definitely a major factor.
I mean, any nuclear reactor is a huge investment.
And thorium reactors, they're new.
So they are even more expensive.
There's just a lot of uncertainty
about the overall cost to build them, to operate them.
And that makes investors kind of hesitant.
Yeah, I get it.
So it's that chicken and egg thing, right?
You need the research and development
to bring the cost down.
But to get the research and development,
you need a lot of money up front.
Exactly.
That's exactly where government support,
private investment, that becomes super important.
And we have seen some progress.
But it's definitely a tough battle.
OK, and then on top of all that,
you have the whole regulatory side of things.
I mean, nuclear power is probably the most heavily
regulated industry in the world.
Absolutely.
And for good reason.
But how do those regulations affect
the development of thorium reactors?
Well, because thorium reactors are
so different from traditional uranium reactors,
the existing regulations, they might not be adequate.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
They might not totally cover the specific safety
and operational aspects of this new technology.
So we might actually need to change the rules, basically.
Yeah, it's possible.
We might have to update the rule book a little bit.
Before these things can really, really take off.
Yeah, and that takes time.
Creating new regulations, that's a slow process.
And it has to be done carefully.
Of course, yeah.
To make sure that we're meeting safety standards.
We're meeting environmental standards.
But we also, we don't want to stifle innovation.
Right, right.
It's a tough balance.
It is.
OK, so no easy answers here.
No, not really.
But let's try to be optimistic for a minute.
Let's say we clear all these hurdles, the materials,
the cost, the regulations.
What does a future with thorium reactors actually look like?
What's the best case scenario here?
Well, if we can get past all that,
the future is, it's really, really exciting.
I mean, imagine a world where we have all this clean energy,
right?
Abundant clean energy.
But without the fear of meltdown,
without these mountains of radioactive waste,
I mean, thorium reactors, they could completely transform,
like, how we power everything, our cities, our industries,
our homes.
It's almost like hitting the reset button on how
we think about nuclear power.
There really is.
We could finally break our dependence on fossil fuels,
make real progress in fighting climate change.
Absolutely.
And beyond that, beyond the environmental benefits,
there are the economic benefits, the geopolitical benefits.
The countries that embrace this technology,
they could become energy independent.
They could lead the way in this whole new global energy
economy.
It's a pretty amazing vision.
It is.
And it's one worth fighting for, you know?
Yeah.
Even if it means we got to face some tough challenges
to get there.
I agree.
I think the potential benefits are just,
they're too big to ignore.
So as we wrap up this deep dive into the world of thorium
reactors, what are the key things you want our listeners
to take away from this?
I think the most important thing to remember
is that thorium reactors, they represent a real path forward,
a real way to get to a cleaner, more sustainable energy
future.
They offer solutions to some of the most urgent problems
that humanity is facing.
But it's not a silver bullet.
Yeah, it's not a quick fix.
There's still work to be done.
Right, right.
There are obstacles.
There are challenges.
Absolutely.
It's important to be realistic about that,
to acknowledge both the incredible potential
and the very real challenges.
And I think ultimately it comes down
to making informed choices.
We need to be having these conversations.
We do.
About the future, about the kind of future we want.
And thorium reactors, they deserve
to be part of that conversation.
I agree.
You know, this transition to a whole new energy paradigm,
it's going to take collaboration.
It's going to take innovation.
And it's going to take a willingness
to try new things, to embrace new ideas.
Absolutely.
So to all of our listeners out there,
I want to leave you with this thought.
Imagine a world powered by thorium reactors.
What would your life be like?
What would be possible?
It's a future worth thinking about.
It's a future worth exploring.
Thanks for joining us on the deep dive.