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Welcome back everyone.

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Today we're gonna do a deep dive into something

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I think really fascinating and that is AI in India.

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Oh cool.

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So we have an interview here with Anon,

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director of a research and you know,

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I gotta say I've seen all this buzz

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about India's AI revolution and I'm a little skeptical.

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Is it all hype or is there something real here?

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I think that's a question a lot of people have.

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And you know, this interview with Anon,

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I think offers a really interesting perspective.

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He's been working in the field for a long time.

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So he's got a good grasp I think of

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both the potential and the challenges.

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Okay, well let's start with the budget then.

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You know, everyone was calling this the AI budget,

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but honestly when you look at the numbers,

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they seem pretty modest.

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500 crore rupees for AI centers of excellence.

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A 10,000 crore deep tech fund spread out over five years.

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That's not exactly the massive investment

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that some people were predicting.

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Right, and Anon actually makes the case

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that maybe that's enough for now.

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Really?

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He thinks that India's strength lies

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in what he calls this frugal innovation.

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You know, this idea of squeezing the most

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out of limited resources.

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Like ISRO, like India's space program.

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Exactly.

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He's done incredible things with a tiny fraction

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of NASA's budget.

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But can that approach really work in AI?

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It brings up a good point.

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He talks about deep seek, which is this Indian startup

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that built a model that's giving open AI

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a run for its money.

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And they did it with a tiny fraction of the resources.

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And their secret was that they focused on building a model

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that was specifically designed

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for Indian languages and data sets.

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Interesting, so instead of trying to be everything

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to everyone, they found a niche and dominated it.

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Exactly.

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That's pretty smart.

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Yeah, it is.

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So instead of just throwing money at the problem,

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they're being efficient and targeted.

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Totally.

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So maybe he's right.

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Yeah.

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But I mean, surely India needs more than just a handful

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of successful startups to become a real AI powerhouse.

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He would agree with you completely on that.

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He really emphasizes the importance

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of public-private partnerships,

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which India has a great track record with.

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I mean, look at UPI, the mobile payment system,

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the government laid the groundwork,

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and then private companies built these incredible services

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on top of it.

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Totally, UPI is a game changer.

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But even with the right partnerships

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and some innovative startups,

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isn't there a massive talent gap when it comes to AI?

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Definitely a concern.

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Yeah.

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And I acknowledge that he talks about the need

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for more skilled professionals in the field.

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And while the budget does outline some fellowship

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and skilling initiatives, he argues

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that strengthening postgraduate AI programs in India

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is crucial because right now, a lot of top talent

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goes abroad for higher education,

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and then they don't come back.

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So we're investing in training people

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who might end up working for Google or Microsoft

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in Silicon Valley.

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A valid concern.

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Yeah, that seems a little counterproductive.

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And it ties into a point that really jumped out at me

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from the interview, which is that only 9% of India's R&D

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spending comes from universities.

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If you compare that to government and business

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enterprises, it raises some serious questions

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about where the priorities are.

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So if India really wants to be a leader in AI,

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they need to not only train the talent,

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but also create an environment where that talent can thrive

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and innovate within India.

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OK, that makes sense.

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But what about the geography of innovation here?

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I mean, is it most of the AI activity

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concentrated in places like Bangalore Roo?

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Well, Anand would say that's starting to change.

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He sees huge potential in tier two and tier three cities

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becoming AI hubs.

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And he points to a few reasons for that.

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Talent availability, cost advantages,

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and let's be honest, the soul-crushing traffic.

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Oh, I hear you on that.

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In major cities.

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So those are all factors driving this trend.

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It's exciting to think about AI innovation,

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spreading beyond the usual suspects.

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Let's get real for a second.

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What about actual AI products coming out of India?

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Are we seeing anything beyond these service-based companies?

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Yeah.

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So this is where things get interesting and maybe

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a little controversial.

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Anand is realistic.

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He admits that most Indian AI startups are focused

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on providing services right now.

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OK, well, that's not surprising.

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I mean, India's IT services sector is world-class.

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So naturally, that expertise would carry over into AI.

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Exactly.

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But doesn't that limit India's potential in the long run?

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That's the question, isn't it?

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Yeah, I mean, can you really be a global AI leader

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if you're primarily focused on services?

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That's the key question.

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And Anand acknowledges the desire for India

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to lead in product development eventually.

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But he believes, and this is where things get really

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fascinating, that India could become the world leader

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in AI implementation and customization.

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Hold on, I need to unpack that a little bit.

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So you're saying that even if India isn't

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creating the most cutting-edge AI models,

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it could excel at taking those models

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and tailoring them to solve specific problems for businesses

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worldwide.

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Exactly.

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Imagine a future where companies all over the globe

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are turning to India to implement and fine-tune

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AI solutions for their unique needs.

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That's a really compelling vision.

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It ties in perfectly with the make in India,

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make for the world initiative.

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It does.

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But is that something Indian startups are even interested in?

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I mean, aren't they mostly focused on chasing quick profits?

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So Anand argues there needs to be a mindset shift.

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He wants founders to think long-term,

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to focus on problem-solving and building

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sustainable businesses.

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He even mentions Deep Kaurra, the founder of Make My Trip,

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who advises young entrepreneurs to think

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in terms of 1,000 to 1,500 days, not weeks or months.

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1,500 days.

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That's a serious commitment.

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A commitment.

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But I guess that's the kind of dedication

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it takes to build something really groundbreaking.

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Absolutely.

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So we've got this tension brewing here.

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On one hand, India excels at providing AI services.

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On the other hand, there's this ambition

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to become a product leader.

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So where do we go from here?

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Well, that's a great question.

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And that's exactly what we're going to dive into next.

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OK.

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Anand gets into some really interesting specifics

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about what a uniquely Indian approach to AI could look like

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and how we could impact the global landscape.

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I'm excited to hear what he has to say.

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Yeah, me too.

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So we left off talking about this tension

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between India's success in AI services

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and then this ambition to become a product leader.

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I'm curious to hear what Anand thinks

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that uniquely Indian approach to AI would actually look like.

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Yeah, so he lays out a few key elements.

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First, he emphasizes building AI solutions that

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are relevant to the Indian context.

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Areas where India has a natural advantage.

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So I think agriculture, health care, education.

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That makes a lot of sense.

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Solve problems that directly impact a billion people

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rather than chasing the same shiny objects as Silicon Valley.

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And it plays into that frugal innovation idea

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we were talking about.

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India's history of finding creative,

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cost-effective solutions, I think that's

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a huge asset in the AI space.

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Makes sense.

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Especially when you consider the global competition

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for resources.

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So it's not just about building fancy AI models.

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It's about building models that are efficient and affordable

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and actually applicable to real world problems in India.

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Totally.

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I like that.

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And he also highlights the importance of collaboration.

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OK.

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We talked about public-private partnerships.

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Right.

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But he takes it a step further.

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He's advocating for collaboration

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within the entire AI ecosystem.

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OK.

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So researchers, startups, established companies,

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sharing knowledge, resources, expertise.

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It's almost like creating this collective brain power

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to propel India forward.

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But let's be real.

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There are some serious hurdles too.

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Oh, absolutely.

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I mean, Anand himself brought up the talent shortage,

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limited access to computing power,

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the lack of mature funding models.

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He doesn't sugarcoat the challenges.

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But he sees them as opportunities

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to build a more resilient and sustainable AI ecosystem.

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So how do we turn those challenges into opportunities?

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Yeah, that's the question.

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What concrete steps does he suggest?

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Well, for starters, he reiterates the need

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to strengthen postgraduate AI programs

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and create more opportunities for researchers

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to work with industry.

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OK.

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He also sees huge potential in upskilling India's

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massive pool of engineering talent for AI-related roles.

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So leverage existing talent.

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I don't think they've got it.

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Give them the tools to thrive in the AI age.

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That's smart.

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But what about the issue of computing power?

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I mean, isn't reliance on foreign cloud providers

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and expensive GPUs a major bottleneck?

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He acknowledges that for sure.

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And suggests exploring alternative approaches.

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Like what?

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Like building indigenous computing infrastructure.

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Partnering with domestic hardware manufacturers.

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Hold on.

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Is India seriously talking about becoming self-reliant?

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It's a bold goal when it comes to AI hardware.

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It's a bold goal.

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Wow.

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But it aligns with that make in India vision.

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Right.

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Of course, it would require significant investment

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and a long-term commitment.

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Sure.

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But imagine the possibilities if India

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could control its own AI hardware destiny.

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That would be a game changer.

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But it sounds incredibly ambitious.

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Ambitious, yes.

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But not impossible.

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Think about what India achieved with ISRO.

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They built a world-class space program

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with limited resources and a lot of determination.

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It's true.

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So why not replicate that success in AI?

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OK.

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I'm starting to see how these pieces fit together.

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It's not just about building AI.

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It's about building an entire ecosystem.

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Totally.

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The talent, the infrastructure, the funding models.

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Yeah.

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It's about thinking long term and playing the long game.

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And that brings us to another crucial point

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that Anand raises the need for a clear and ethical framework

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for AI governance.

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Yeah.

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AI ethics is a huge topic.

276
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Absolutely.

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So we need to make sure we're building AI responsibly.

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Right.

279
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What kind of ethical considerations does he bring up?

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Well, he talks about data privacy, algorithmic bias,

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the potential impact of AI on employment.

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He stresses the importance of transparency, accountability,

283
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and public engagement in shaping AI policies.

284
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It's fascinating how the conversation around AI

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always seems to circle back to these fundamental questions

286
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of ethics and governance.

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It's not just about the technology itself.

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It's about how we use it and who benefits from it.

289
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And that's what makes this deep dive so interesting.

290
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I agree.

291
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It's not just a tech conversation.

292
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Right.

293
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It's a conversation about the future of India.

294
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Yeah.

295
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About its role in the world, about how we can shape technology

296
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to serve humanity.

297
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It's inspiring to hear Anand talk about the potential of AI

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to solve real world problems and improve people's lives.

299
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But he's also clearly urging caution,

300
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reminding us that we need to proceed thoughtfully

301
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and responsibly.

302
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It's about finding that balance between innovation

303
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and responsibility, between ambition and caution.

304
00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:32,800
Exactly.

305
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And I think that's where AIM Research comes into play,

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his organization.

307
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He hints at some really exciting plans for the future.

308
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All right, so let's shift gears then and explore

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what AIM Research is all about.

310
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Sounds good.

311
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And how they fit into this grand vision of India's AI journey.

312
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OK, so AIM Research.

313
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And then clearly has big plans for it.

314
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But what exactly is their mission?

315
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How do they fit into this larger picture of India's AI

316
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aspirations?

317
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:06,480
So from what Anand describes, AIM Research

318
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:11,400
is positioning itself as this specialized research firm focused

319
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:13,920
on AI genomics and data science.

320
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And not just within India, but globally.

321
00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:18,640
So they're not just conducting research.

322
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They're aiming to be thought leaders.

323
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It seems that way.

324
00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:22,640
OK.

325
00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,280
Yeah, he talks about creating this comprehensive database.

326
00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:26,960
Interesting.

327
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:28,760
Of global AI startups.

328
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:29,360
OK.

329
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:30,840
Calling it BOT Bazaar.

330
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BOT Bazaar.

331
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:33,440
I love that.

332
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:34,080
It's catchy.

333
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,200
Yeah, it's catchy and memorable.

334
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,480
But what's the goal with this database?

335
00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:40,360
So is it just information gathering,

336
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or is it something more strategic?

337
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He mentions it could be a really valuable resource

338
00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,120
for investors who are looking to support

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00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:53,440
promising AI startups, especially in India.

340
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:53,960
OK.

341
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:56,080
So imagine you're an investor.

342
00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:56,640
Yeah.

343
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You have access to this curated list of companies

344
00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,480
that are working on cutting edge solutions

345
00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,680
with all the details about their funding, their team,

346
00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:07,720
their technology.

347
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:09,280
That's huge.

348
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,600
It could really streamline that whole process

349
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,840
of connecting investors with opportunities.

350
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:14,240
Exactly.

351
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:19,040
And fueling growth in India's AI ecosystem.

352
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,640
Yeah, it speaks to their broader goal

353
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:25,200
of becoming this think tank in the AI space.

354
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:25,720
Interesting.

355
00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,880
This go-to source for insights and analysis.

356
00:14:28,880 --> 00:14:32,720
And even compares their ambition to ISRO.

357
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:33,400
Yeah.

358
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:38,080
Aiming to become a globally recognized leader in their niche.

359
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:39,360
It's a bold vision.

360
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:39,920
It is.

361
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:43,760
And honestly, it makes you wonder if they can pull it off.

362
00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,920
There's definitely a strong sense of purpose

363
00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,440
and determination in his words.

364
00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:54,120
He really sees aim research as playing this key role

365
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,240
in helping India navigate its rapidly evolving tech

366
00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:58,040
landscape.

367
00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,360
So it's not just research for research's sake.

368
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,480
It's about applying that knowledge

369
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,040
to solve real world problems and contribute

370
00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:06,800
to India's growth story.

371
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:08,120
I think that's a great way to put it.

372
00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,040
This whole conversation has been incredibly insightful.

373
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:11,640
It has.

374
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,280
We've explored the challenges and opportunities

375
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:17,960
facing India's AI ecosystem.

376
00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:20,280
We delved into the budget announcements

377
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,480
and even gave this glimpse into the ambitious vision.

378
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,520
It's a really fascinating story.

379
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:26,960
It is.

380
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,040
And throughout this whole interview,

381
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:33,040
there's this underlying theme of pragmatic optimism.

382
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:33,640
I agree.

383
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:34,200
You know?

384
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:35,400
Yes, there are obstacles.

385
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:35,920
Yeah.

386
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,600
But there's also this incredible energy.

387
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:39,040
Totally.

388
00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:40,760
And a sense of possibility.

389
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:41,200
Yeah.

390
00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,040
That's really contagious.

391
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:43,760
It is.

392
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:48,080
It's like India is at this crossroads right now.

393
00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:48,400
Yeah.

394
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,040
And they're choosing to forge their own path,

395
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,440
one that leverages their unique strengths

396
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,640
and embraces innovation in a way that's

397
00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,320
both efficient and impactful.

398
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:00,200
I think that's a great point.

399
00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,440
And I think that's the key takeaway for you, our listener.

400
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,880
India's AI journey isn't about blindly following Silicon

401
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:07,720
Valley.

402
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:10,240
It's about carving out their own niche,

403
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,720
becoming a global leader in AI services,

404
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:16,320
and ultimately contributing to the advancement of AI

405
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:18,320
in a way that benefits all of humanity.

406
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:18,920
Absolutely.

407
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,160
As we wrap up this deep dive, I want

408
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:22,680
to leave you with a final thought.

409
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:23,640
OK.

410
00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:28,440
Inspired by Anand's vision for AIM research,

411
00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,440
could a specialized India-based research

412
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,760
firm focused on AI genomics and data science

413
00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,120
actually become a global thought leader?

414
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:39,240
That's a great question.

415
00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:39,640
It is.

416
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,840
It's a question worth pondering as you

417
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,840
continue to explore this ever-changing world of AI.

418
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:45,600
Totally.

419
00:16:45,600 --> 00:17:10,960
Thanks for joining us on this fascinating journey.