Welcome to another deep dive.
Today, we're going deep into AI,
specifically what a Chinese startup called DeepSeek is doing.
Yeah, the article you sent me about them claiming
they can go up against Google and chat GPT.
Yeah, DeepSeek.
But for way less money.
It's a big deal, a real turning point, I think.
It's not even just about the money, though.
It's about the whole AI industry could change because of this.
Yeah, no, totally.
Like, okay, so DeepSeek is saying their AI can do
what open AI does, the people who made chat GPT.
But they say they can make it and run it for 96% less.
That's insane.
Yeah, it's huge.
It's not just like they found a better deal on parts or something.
It's like you said, a whole different way
of thinking about AI development.
The article said they spent something like $6 million
training their model.
Open AI is spending, what, like $3 billion a year?
That's crazy.
How is that even possible?
Well, that's the million dollar question, right?
But the article suggests they might be using this technique
called distillation.
Think of it like this.
You know how sometimes you can recreate a dish
just by tasting it?
You figure out the ingredients, the method,
without having the actual recipe.
Okay, yeah, I eat that.
So distillation is kind of like that for AI.
They're analyzing existing models,
like figuring out how they work.
Then they use that knowledge to train their own model,
but in a much more efficient way.
So they're basically like reverse engineering
the best AI out there.
Pretty much, yeah.
There's even speculation that they might be building off
open AI as GPT-4, you know, the latest one,
and doing it without permission, which, well, you know.
That's pretty bold.
So Deep Sigs basically saying,
we can make what you made, but for way cheaper.
Yeah, exactly.
And that's what has everyone so spooked.
This isn't just some small improvement.
This is like shaking the foundations of Silicon Valley.
I bet.
And I'm sure that if you're a company like Nvidia, right?
You need a chip maker.
They make the chips that power a lot of this AI stuff.
Right.
Their stock took a massive hit when this news came out.
People starting to rethink like the whole future
of AI development because of this.
Yeah, for sure.
The whole landscape is shifting.
Okay, hold on.
The article mentioned this open source thing.
What does that even mean for AI?
Like break that down for me.
Sure, it's important to understand that open source
basically means the code behind the AI is free.
Anyone can download it, use it, modify it.
It's the opposite of how things have been done traditionally
where companies guard their AI models like state secrets.
That's like a recipe anyone can use.
Yeah, exactly.
Deep seek making their model open source is a huge shift.
So okay, on one hand, you've got this rival rebrewing,
especially between the US and China.
The article even mentioned Trump calling this
a wake up call for US tech,
but then you've got this open source thing,
which could level the playing field.
It feels like two opposite things happening at once.
It's a really interesting dynamic, right?
I mean, on the one hand,
the US is trying to control what tech gets exported to China.
They want to slow them down basically.
But on the other hand,
some experts think these export controls
might actually backfire.
How so?
Well, if you can't buy the ingredients you need,
what do you do?
You figure out how to make them yourself.
Exactly.
These restrictions could push deep seek
and other Chinese companies to become even more innovative.
They'll have to find their own solutions,
their own ways of doing things.
So instead of holding them back,
it could push them forward.
Wow.
So where does that leave deep seek?
Are they like the underdog here?
Or are they the ones to beat now?
That's the thing.
It's really hard to say.
They're kind of both, right?
They're relatively new to this,
but they're already challenging the giants.
And this open source approach
could be a real game changer.
It might not just be about who has the best AI anymore.
It could be about who makes it the most accessible.
It's like the whole industry is on its toes right now.
Yeah, everyone's watching to see what happens next.
It's gonna be interesting, that's for sure.
Okay, so let's go back
to that open source thing for a sec.
It sounds like a pretty big deal.
Like how big of a change could this really be?
It could be massive, honestly.
Think of it this way.
You have this amazing recipe,
only a few chefs know it, right?
Super secret.
But then someone posts it online for free.
Anyone can make it now.
So you're saying more people having access to AI,
like it could change things.
Oh yeah, it's not just about making the same stuff cheaper.
It's about who gets to create, you know.
Imagine researchers, startups,
people who couldn't afford this tech before.
Suddenly they can do all sorts of new things.
Okay, that makes sense.
But the article kept mentioning this distillation thing.
I'm still not totally clear on that.
Like how does that actually work?
Okay, so imagine you're trying to teach someone
to paint like, I don't know, Picasso, right?
You wouldn't just give them a brush and say go for it.
You'd show them how Picasso mixed colors,
the strokes he used, the whole technique.
Distillation is kind of like that for AI.
You take an existing model, a really good one.
You analyze how it processes information,
how it thinks, basically.
Then you teach a new model to do the same thing,
but faster, cheaper, you know?
So DeepSeek is using this distillation
to make a model that's as good as like GPT-4,
but without spending billions.
That's the idea.
They're leveraging the work that's already been done,
but finding shortcuts, basically.
But isn't that like kind of ethically questionable?
If they're building off someone else's AI,
I mean, is that even allowed?
That's a great question.
It's a bit of a gray area, legally speaking.
The whole debate around distillation is just starting, really.
Some people say if the original AI was open source,
then it's fair game, but others argue it's more complicated.
Especially if DeepSeek is profiting from it.
This whole thing is just moving so fast.
I feel like it's hard to keep up.
It really is.
The pace of AI development is just insane right now.
This DeepSeek situation is like a perfect example.
It's forcing us to rethink everything.
How we make AI, who gets to use it,
what it even means for society.
Right, right.
Speaking of society, like the article mentioned
how DeepSeek trains its models to avoid certain topics.
That could actually reflect a very specific worldview.
Like a Chinese one.
That's a really important point.
And it's easy to forget.
We tend to think of AI as this neutral thing, objective.
But it's made by people, right?
And people have biases.
So even if the code is open, the AI itself
might not be totally open.
Exactly.
It's this weird paradox.
Open sourcing AI could democratize things.
That's true.
But we can't forget about the potential for bias, control,
all that.
Even in systems that seem totally open.
Man, it feels like we're just scratching the surface here.
What do you think the next five years of AI
are going to look like?
It's hard to say for sure.
But if I had to guess, I think we'll
see even more crazy innovation.
More things that nobody saw coming.
More competition, especially between the US and China.
Yeah, this whole AI race is just heating up.
And the stakes are huge.
It's not just about technology anymore.
It's about power, global influence,
the whole future of how we live and work.
So what about this open source thing?
Is DeepSeq just an outlier?
Or do you think other companies will follow suit?
That's the big question, right?
I think DeepSeq's success has definitely
gotten people's attention.
It's like they're showing everyone
a different way of doing things.
And as AI gets more expensive to develop the old way,
open source might start to look more and more appealing.
Like a cheaper, faster way to compete.
Yeah, but it's more than that.
Open source AI represents a different philosophy.
It's about collaboration, sharing knowledge,
making things accessible.
It's almost like a social movement in a way.
Wow, that's really interesting.
So this DeepSeq thing is about more than just one company, huh?
Way more.
It's a reflection of the bigger picture.
Globalization, new superpowers emerging,
the whole way technology is changing the world.
AI is at the center of all that.
And DeepSeq just threw a big wrench into the gears.
So we've talked about a lot, huh?
DeepSeq's tech, this whole US-China thing, open source.
What's the thing that really stood out to you from all this?
I keep thinking about who this could change things for,
you know?
Like if DeepSeq's model is as good as they say,
and it's that much cheaper, it could be huge for all sorts
of people, smaller companies, research teams,
even just individuals, people who never
had a chance to work with this kind of AI before,
because it was just too expensive.
So DeepSeq is saying, like, you don't
need to be a Google to play in the AI game anymore.
Yeah, exactly.
And the article even said you can run their models
on regular computers, basically.
You don't need these massive super computers.
It's really opening things up.
But doesn't that also mean more people could misuse AI?
If it's easier to get, it's easier to use for anything,
right?
Not all of it good.
That's the other side of the coin, for sure.
Like you give everyone a powerful tool.
Some people will build amazing things, and others, as well.
Not so much.
That's where ethics, guidelines, regulations, all that.
It becomes even more important.
It reminds me of the early days of the internet.
A lot of potential, but also kind of a wild west.
Totally.
And just like the internet, eventually,
things settled down a bit.
Rules came in, safeguards.
I think the same thing will happen with AI.
It'll take some time, probably some mistakes along the way.
But we'll figure it out.
So big picture.
Where do you see all this going?
Five years from now, what's AI going to look like?
Man, predicting the future is always tricky,
especially with AI.
But if I had to guess, I think we're
going to see a ton of new stuff, new ideas,
new applications, stuff we haven't even thought of yet.
Because more people will have the tools to create.
That's pretty exciting, actually.
What about for someone who's just starting to learn about AI?
What would you tell them?
Where should they start?
Stay curious.
That's the biggest thing.
There are tons of resources out there.
Try different things.
Experiment.
Ask questions.
The AI world is changing all the time.
So just keep learning.
Great advice.
This whole deep dive has been really eye opening, honestly.
DeepSeek is just one example, but it
feels like there's so much more happening out there.
Oh, absolutely.
It's just the beginning.
And that's what's so cool about it, right?
We're seeing this whole new technology unfold.
And who knows what it'll lead to?
Well, I think we've covered a lot of ground here.
Any final thoughts for our listeners before we wrap up?
Yeah, just this.
Don't just watch this happen.
Be a part of it.
Learn about AI.
Explore what you can do with it.
And think about how it's all going to affect us.
Because the future of AI is being written right now.
And we all have a say in it.
That's a great point.
Well, thanks for all your insights today.
This has been a fantastic conversation.
And to everyone listening, thanks
for joining us on this deep dive into the wild world of AI.
Until next time, keep exploring and keep learning.