WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.480 Hey everyone, welcome to the show. Great to be 00:00:01.480 --> 00:00:04.299 here. So imagine this. What if your consciousness, 00:00:04.500 --> 00:00:07.839 your actual self, could somehow escape the most 00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:12.199 unimaginable physical torture? Right, not just 00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:14.539 like hallucinating. No, not hallucinating, but 00:00:14.539 --> 00:00:18.440 literally journeying through past lives. Lives 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:21.480 stretching back thousands of years. Okay. What 00:00:21.480 --> 00:00:24.140 if being completely trapped in the ultimate confinement 00:00:24.140 --> 00:00:27.920 could actually unlock infinite freedom? Wow. 00:00:28.519 --> 00:00:31.280 And what if the most brutal grinding pain could 00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:35.039 reveal the deepest truths about who you are and 00:00:35.039 --> 00:00:37.359 maybe what the human spirit really is? That's 00:00:37.359 --> 00:00:39.719 quite a thought. It is, isn't it? That profound 00:00:39.719 --> 00:00:43.079 kind of unsettling question. That's the pulse, 00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:45.579 the real electrifying current that drives Jack 00:00:45.579 --> 00:00:47.899 London's masterful novel, The Star Rover. Ah, 00:00:47.979 --> 00:00:50.020 The Star Rover. Fantastic. And we're going to 00:00:50.020 --> 00:00:51.939 be peeling back every single layer of it today. 00:00:52.100 --> 00:00:54.079 So if you love stories that really challenge 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:55.859 how you see things, stories that stick with you 00:00:55.859 --> 00:00:58.070 long after you finish them. Which this one definitely 00:00:58.070 --> 00:01:00.490 does. Oh, absolutely. Then do me a favor and 00:01:00.490 --> 00:01:02.570 hit that like and subscribe button right now. 00:01:02.649 --> 00:01:04.510 You really won't want to miss what's coming up. 00:01:04.569 --> 00:01:06.689 Okay, so for anyone who hasn't jumped into this 00:01:06.689 --> 00:01:10.269 one yet, where does it start? Right, so the Star 00:01:10.269 --> 00:01:13.469 Rover drops us straight into, well, the grim 00:01:13.469 --> 00:01:16.930 reality of Folsom Prison. It's 1913. Not exactly 00:01:16.930 --> 00:01:19.370 a holiday camp. Not at all. We meet Daryl Standing. 00:01:19.469 --> 00:01:21.170 He's actually a former university professor, 00:01:21.349 --> 00:01:25.209 but now he's on death row for... A violent act. 00:01:25.370 --> 00:01:27.790 And he's subjected to this horrific thing called 00:01:27.790 --> 00:01:30.469 the jacket. Yeah, the jacket. It's this canvas 00:01:30.469 --> 00:01:33.010 straight jacket. But they tighten it to just 00:01:33.010 --> 00:01:35.689 excruciating levels. I mean, it's designed purely 00:01:35.689 --> 00:01:38.790 to break a person, body, and spirit. It's hard 00:01:38.790 --> 00:01:41.469 to even imagine. It really is. And just a reminder, 00:01:41.590 --> 00:01:43.489 the Amazon link to grab your own copy, if you 00:01:43.489 --> 00:01:45.329 haven't read it, is waiting for you in the description 00:01:45.329 --> 00:01:47.599 below. But what's really mind bending is that 00:01:47.599 --> 00:01:50.359 in this extreme torment, this complete physical 00:01:50.359 --> 00:01:53.939 lockdown. Yeah. Standing discovers this incredible 00:01:53.939 --> 00:01:57.239 ability. His consciousness just detaches. It 00:01:57.239 --> 00:01:59.180 leaves the suffering behind. And goes where? 00:01:59.319 --> 00:02:01.599 It allows him to embark on these vivid, totally 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:04.599 compelling journeys through what he comes to 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:07.420 believe are his past lives. Different people, 00:02:07.540 --> 00:02:10.219 different eras, different civilizations. It's 00:02:10.219 --> 00:02:12.780 such a wild premise. But, you know, trust me 00:02:12.780 --> 00:02:14.960 when I say this book isn't really just about 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:18.289 like. a fantastical prison escape. No, not at 00:02:18.289 --> 00:02:21.110 all. It goes much deeper. It's a total masterclass 00:02:21.110 --> 00:02:25.330 in exploring, well, the enduring nature of consciousness, 00:02:25.550 --> 00:02:28.909 maybe. And it's a brutal meditation on just how 00:02:28.909 --> 00:02:31.250 resilient the human spirit can be. It really 00:02:31.250 --> 00:02:33.210 makes you ask those hard questions. It does. 00:02:33.389 --> 00:02:35.430 Like, how far can you push someone before they 00:02:35.430 --> 00:02:38.090 actually break? And maybe more importantly, what 00:02:38.090 --> 00:02:40.520 do we become? After we've been broken. Exactly. 00:02:40.620 --> 00:02:43.599 It's this deep dive into human endurance, but 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:47.879 also the, I guess, limitless potential of the 00:02:47.879 --> 00:02:49.979 mind itself. Okay, so we've set the scene. Let's 00:02:49.979 --> 00:02:51.780 really get into it. Let's peel back those layers 00:02:51.780 --> 00:02:53.539 of what London was trying to say. Sounds good. 00:02:53.659 --> 00:02:55.560 But first, a quick heads up for you, our dedicated 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:57.759 listener. From this point on, we are going to 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:00.460 be diving deep. Spoilers ahead. Yeah, lots of 00:03:00.460 --> 00:03:02.680 spoilers. We'll be getting into the core revelations, 00:03:02.680 --> 00:03:06.180 the big plot points of the Star Rover. So if 00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:07.680 you haven't read it yet and you want that fresh 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:10.139 experience, now is definitely your moment to 00:03:10.139 --> 00:03:12.780 pause. Go read it, journey through it yourself, 00:03:12.979 --> 00:03:15.599 and then come back. Okay. So spoiler shields 00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:18.560 up. Right. Let's talk about one of the big themes. 00:03:18.639 --> 00:03:21.000 Yeah. This idea that triumph of spirit over matter. 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:24.740 Yes. And London hammers this home through the 00:03:24.740 --> 00:03:27.919 sheer horror of the jacket. I mean, standing 00:03:27.919 --> 00:03:30.479 describes it in detail, being laced face down. 00:03:31.300 --> 00:03:33.979 Guards literally pressing their feet into his 00:03:33.979 --> 00:03:36.460 back to yank the ropes tighter through these 00:03:36.460 --> 00:03:39.759 eyelets. Like a shoelace, he says, but more severely. 00:03:40.139 --> 00:03:42.840 It compresses his organs. It sounds medieval. 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:45.280 I mean, the circulation pain he compares it to, 00:03:45.300 --> 00:03:47.460 like a tight shoe, but all over your body. Yeah. 00:03:47.539 --> 00:03:50.240 Amplified. And the duration. He mentions enduring 00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:53.500 it for 24 hours straight. then 100 hours 100 00:03:53.500 --> 00:03:57.319 hours and even astonishingly 240 hours that's 00:03:57.319 --> 00:03:59.979 10 days and nights dressed up like that 10 days 00:03:59.979 --> 00:04:02.159 i honestly reading that part i kind of had to 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:04.319 put the book down for a second 10 minutes in 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:06.599 a tight binding is bad enough what do you think 00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:08.400 london's goal was pushing the physical torment 00:04:08.400 --> 00:04:10.759 that far well it's brutal isn't it but i think 00:04:10.759 --> 00:04:13.340 london is fundamentally testing the limits How 00:04:13.340 --> 00:04:15.719 much can the physical body take before the spirit 00:04:15.719 --> 00:04:17.819 has to find another way out? An escape valve. 00:04:18.319 --> 00:04:21.800 Precisely. And the paradox here, the really fascinating 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:25.120 thing, is how this absolute torture becomes the 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:27.980 very trigger, the catalyst for Standing's star 00:04:27.980 --> 00:04:30.759 roving. Right. He learns that trick, as he calls 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:33.519 it, from another inmate, Ed Murrell. Yeah. Murrell 00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:36.399 teaches him to essentially will his body to die. 00:04:36.810 --> 00:04:39.769 piece by piece to consciously detach from it 00:04:39.769 --> 00:04:41.910 so it's like a form of self -hypnosis almost 00:04:41.910 --> 00:04:45.509 he forces his mind to ignore the pain lets his 00:04:45.509 --> 00:04:47.889 consciousness expand beyond the prison walls 00:04:47.889 --> 00:04:50.610 he literally wills his toes to die then his feet 00:04:50.610 --> 00:04:53.250 his legs he says his body is dropping out of 00:04:53.250 --> 00:04:55.529 the game a chunk at a time but his consciousness 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:58.459 That remains. Which leads him to that core belief, 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:01.000 doesn't it? That line, matter is the only illusion. 00:05:01.139 --> 00:05:03.560 It is life that is the reality and the mystery. 00:05:03.779 --> 00:05:06.040 Exactly. And that's where London really digs 00:05:06.040 --> 00:05:08.339 into the philosophy. Standing starts seeing life 00:05:08.339 --> 00:05:12.040 itself as this thread of fire, something that 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:13.779 persists through all the different forms matter 00:05:13.779 --> 00:05:15.920 takes. He insists he can't actually die. Right. 00:05:15.980 --> 00:05:18.560 Because he sees himself as immortal in a way. 00:05:18.620 --> 00:05:20.959 A growth, he calls it, made up of countless past 00:05:20.959 --> 00:05:23.579 lives. His argument is basically that spirit 00:05:23.579 --> 00:05:28.779 is memory. Spirit is memory. Wow. That's a heavy 00:05:28.779 --> 00:05:32.160 idea. If we carry all our past lives inside us, 00:05:32.259 --> 00:05:36.839 like standing beliefs, what does that mean for 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:39.639 who we are right now? That's the million -dollar 00:05:39.639 --> 00:05:42.360 question London poses, isn't it? Are our instincts, 00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:45.160 our gut feelings, those deep fears or sudden 00:05:45.160 --> 00:05:48.800 passions, are they just echoes, leftovers from 00:05:48.800 --> 00:05:50.939 previous selves? It definitely makes you wonder 00:05:50.939 --> 00:05:53.259 about free will, too. Are we just playing out 00:05:53.259 --> 00:05:55.759 old scripts, ancient patterns? Or does having 00:05:55.759 --> 00:05:58.819 all that accumulated memory give us some kind 00:05:58.819 --> 00:06:01.180 of unique insight for the present? London really 00:06:01.180 --> 00:06:03.680 pushes that boundary. You know, questioning if 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:05.920 our instincts are just old survival tricks bubbling 00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:08.579 up or maybe unresolved stuff from way back when. 00:06:08.660 --> 00:06:10.839 It kind of blurs the line between me and this 00:06:10.839 --> 00:06:13.360 vast collective human story. Suggesting we're 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:15.680 more than just individuals, maybe. Like walking, 00:06:15.779 --> 00:06:17.519 talking libraries of history. Sort of, yeah. 00:06:17.660 --> 00:06:19.779 And London uses Daryl Standing's whole journey 00:06:19.779 --> 00:06:21.720 to explore this. He's not your typical rough 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:23.579 -and -tumble London hero, at least not initially. 00:06:24.110 --> 00:06:26.370 No, he's a former academic, professor of agronomy, 00:06:26.430 --> 00:06:28.930 of all things. He apparently did a well -known 00:06:28.930 --> 00:06:31.910 corn demonstration at Wistar, wrote a handbook 00:06:31.910 --> 00:06:34.490 on farm management, calls himself a pacifist. 00:06:34.649 --> 00:06:39.009 But prison changes him profoundly. He admits 00:06:39.009 --> 00:06:41.110 it himself and makes him hard, fills him with 00:06:41.110 --> 00:06:43.410 bitterness and a passionate hatred. Yeah, that 00:06:43.410 --> 00:06:45.750 transformation is dark. But it's that intense 00:06:45.750 --> 00:06:49.129 pressure, that crucible, that unlocks who he 00:06:49.129 --> 00:06:52.269 really is. Or perhaps... who he has been this 00:06:52.269 --> 00:06:55.310 man of many lives and london uses those lives 00:06:55.310 --> 00:06:57.750 brilliantly right they're not just random adventure 00:06:57.750 --> 00:07:00.449 stories thrown in no each one feels like it serves 00:07:00.449 --> 00:07:03.029 a purpose exploring different facets of human 00:07:03.029 --> 00:07:05.589 experience different historical struggles but 00:07:05.589 --> 00:07:07.910 always showing that persistence of the spirit 00:07:08.350 --> 00:07:10.110 The range is incredible. If you had to pick, 00:07:10.110 --> 00:07:12.569 say, one or two lives that really stand out for 00:07:12.569 --> 00:07:14.810 you, that capture Standing's journey, which would 00:07:14.810 --> 00:07:17.110 they be? I was really struck by the very first 00:07:17.110 --> 00:07:19.569 one he experiences. Oh, Ushu the Archer. Yeah, 00:07:19.689 --> 00:07:21.910 the prehistoric man. That one's incredibly powerful. 00:07:22.250 --> 00:07:24.129 Why that one for you? I think because it grounds 00:07:24.129 --> 00:07:27.170 everything. It shows that spark of ingenuity, 00:07:27.170 --> 00:07:29.550 of adaptation, learning to domesticate rice, 00:07:29.730 --> 00:07:32.910 basically inventing agriculture happening way 00:07:32.910 --> 00:07:36.149 back in the mists of time. It connects standing's 00:07:36.149 --> 00:07:38.649 present struggle to the very dawn of civilization. 00:07:38.709 --> 00:07:41.329 That makes sense. Survival and innovation. And 00:07:41.329 --> 00:07:44.209 then jumping way forward, there's Daniel Foss, 00:07:44.350 --> 00:07:48.350 the castaway. Ah, yes. The oar. Exactly. That 00:07:48.350 --> 00:07:50.730 life is so crucial because it provides the only 00:07:50.730 --> 00:07:55.060 piece of, well, tangible proof connecting Standing's 00:07:55.060 --> 00:07:57.319 inner experiences to the outside world. Right. 00:07:57.399 --> 00:07:59.620 Foss gets shipwrecked, stranded on some desolate 00:07:59.620 --> 00:08:02.319 island back in 1809, and he carves his story 00:08:02.319 --> 00:08:04.910 onto an oar. And then standing in his current 00:08:04.910 --> 00:08:07.529 life as a professor before prison actually finds 00:08:07.529 --> 00:08:10.110 that very or in the Philadelphia Museum. It's 00:08:10.110 --> 00:08:11.889 such a clever device. It validates everything, 00:08:12.050 --> 00:08:13.910 not just for standing, but for the reader, too. 00:08:14.050 --> 00:08:16.850 It bridges that gap between these seemingly unbelievable 00:08:16.850 --> 00:08:20.730 past life visions and, you know, actual verifiable 00:08:20.730 --> 00:08:23.009 reality. Makes the whole thing feel possible. 00:08:23.209 --> 00:08:25.069 It really anchors the narrative. And another 00:08:25.069 --> 00:08:27.850 fascinating thread is how he perceives women 00:08:27.850 --> 00:08:31.430 across these lives. The woman eternal. Yes. From 00:08:31.430 --> 00:08:34.929 his prehistoric jungle mates to queens and noblewomen 00:08:34.929 --> 00:08:38.129 he encounters, he sees them all as aspects of 00:08:38.129 --> 00:08:40.549 this universal feminine principle. Culminating 00:08:40.549 --> 00:08:42.370 in Dorothy, right, the warden's young daughter. 00:08:42.529 --> 00:08:45.350 Sadine's daughter, yeah, only 11. But he sees 00:08:45.350 --> 00:08:48.610 in her the essence of Sar, Istar, Sheba, Cleopatra, 00:08:48.649 --> 00:08:52.210 Mary, Brunhilde, even Eve. It's this thread tying 00:08:52.210 --> 00:08:55.190 humanity together across all time through love 00:08:55.190 --> 00:08:57.309 and connection. It adds another layer of depth. 00:08:57.909 --> 00:08:59.690 But London doesn't just give a standings perspective. 00:09:00.190 --> 00:09:03.190 He introduces Jake Oppenheimer. Ah, Oppenheimer, 00:09:03.389 --> 00:09:06.029 the human tiger. Such a great character. He's 00:09:06.029 --> 00:09:07.950 standing cellmate. They communicate just by tapping 00:09:07.950 --> 00:09:10.149 knuckles on the wall. And he's the skeptic, isn't 00:09:10.149 --> 00:09:12.000 he? The scientific counterpoint. Absolutely. 00:09:12.100 --> 00:09:14.299 Despite his ferocious nickname, he is described 00:09:14.299 --> 00:09:17.200 as having these cardinal traits of right humanness, 00:09:17.200 --> 00:09:19.740 loyalty, bravery, a fierce sense of justice, 00:09:19.899 --> 00:09:23.460 even if it led to prison killings. And his mental 00:09:23.460 --> 00:09:26.340 ability is off the charts. Astounding. He learns 00:09:26.340 --> 00:09:29.500 to play chess, beats tanning, standing at it 00:09:29.500 --> 00:09:31.860 purely through visualization, never sees a board, 00:09:32.019 --> 00:09:35.080 never touches a piece, just mental chess. Incredible. 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:38.440 So naturally, he's doubtful about standing star 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:42.429 roving tails. Initially, yes. He calls them fairy 00:09:42.429 --> 00:09:45.889 stories. He applies this law of parsimony, basically 00:09:45.889 --> 00:09:49.389 Occam's razor demanding hard proof. He even challenges 00:09:49.389 --> 00:09:52.470 standing to predict newspaper headlines. Standard 00:09:52.470 --> 00:09:55.470 skeptical approach. But then something happens. 00:09:55.710 --> 00:09:58.529 The loose tooth incident. It's pivotal. Standing, 00:09:58.769 --> 00:10:01.129 while he's supposedly unconscious in a jacket 00:10:01.129 --> 00:10:03.889 coma, describes seeing Oppenheimer in his cell 00:10:03.889 --> 00:10:06.769 wiggling a loose tooth. A detail Oppenheimer 00:10:06.769 --> 00:10:10.110 hadn't told anyone. Exactly. A tiny, specific, 00:10:10.370 --> 00:10:12.870 unexplainable detail that Standing couldn't possibly 00:10:12.870 --> 00:10:15.429 have known through normal means. And that one 00:10:15.429 --> 00:10:17.470 thing just shatters Oppenheimer's skepticism. 00:10:17.690 --> 00:10:20.049 It validates Standing's experiences for him. 00:10:20.149 --> 00:10:22.450 It's such a powerful, understated moment of proof. 00:10:23.070 --> 00:10:25.190 And Oppenheimer's views on capital punishment 00:10:25.190 --> 00:10:27.690 also resonate, don't they? Very much so. His 00:10:27.690 --> 00:10:29.950 line, the worst possible use you can put a man 00:10:29.950 --> 00:10:33.409 to is to hang him. He sees it as silly, stupid, 00:10:33.509 --> 00:10:36.070 and unscientific. It ties back into that larger 00:10:36.070 --> 00:10:38.210 critique of the brutality of the system, the 00:10:38.210 --> 00:10:40.149 prison, the jacket. Yeah. It's all woven together. 00:10:40.370 --> 00:10:44.409 And London's writing itself, his craft really 00:10:44.409 --> 00:10:48.340 holds this complex story together. How so? The 00:10:48.340 --> 00:10:50.759 whole framing device, for starters, it's standing, 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:53.399 writing his jacket memoirs from his death cell. 00:10:53.679 --> 00:10:57.179 That first -person perspective creates this immediacy, 00:10:57.240 --> 00:10:59.740 this urgency. You feel the clock ticking. This 00:10:59.740 --> 00:11:01.960 is the end of June. In a little while, they will 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:05.379 try to befool me. That constant sense of impending 00:11:05.379 --> 00:11:07.960 doom hangs over everything. It creates incredible 00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:10.440 tension, and the style changes so effectively, 00:11:10.620 --> 00:11:12.740 too. You mean between the prison scenes and the 00:11:12.740 --> 00:11:15.659 past lives? Exactly. The prose describing the 00:11:15.659 --> 00:11:18.220 prison, the jacket, it's often visceral, stark, 00:11:18.379 --> 00:11:20.879 almost suffocating you as a reader. Yeah, claustrophobic. 00:11:21.019 --> 00:11:23.159 But then when he star roves, the language becomes 00:11:23.159 --> 00:11:26.539 expansive, vivid, full of color and action. It 00:11:26.539 --> 00:11:28.860 creates this intense contrast between the trapped 00:11:28.860 --> 00:11:31.559 body and the liberated mind. That contrast is 00:11:31.559 --> 00:11:34.210 the theme, in a way. It really is. And the way 00:11:34.210 --> 00:11:37.029 he pieces together these fragmented lives from 00:11:37.029 --> 00:11:39.409 different times and places, it makes them feel 00:11:39.409 --> 00:11:42.649 like part of one coherent whole that reinforces 00:11:42.649 --> 00:11:45.190 the main idea, doesn't it? The enduring spirit, 00:11:45.389 --> 00:11:48.269 the collective human story. The sheer diversity 00:11:48.269 --> 00:11:52.789 of settings, prehistoric camps, Roman galleys, 00:11:52.809 --> 00:11:56.009 French dueling grounds, Korean courts, pioneer 00:11:56.009 --> 00:11:59.110 wagons. It shows the universality of it all. 00:11:59.370 --> 00:12:02.710 Struggle, love, invention, betrayal. It happens 00:12:02.710 --> 00:12:05.210 everywhere, always. It's just a master class 00:12:05.210 --> 00:12:07.309 in using narrative structure, that fragmented 00:12:07.309 --> 00:12:09.830 form to amplify the core message. You feel the 00:12:09.830 --> 00:12:12.470 confinement and then you feel the release. So 00:12:12.470 --> 00:12:17.389 ultimately the Star Rover, it's just this incredibly 00:12:17.389 --> 00:12:19.950 powerful testament, isn't it? Yeah. To the human 00:12:19.950 --> 00:12:22.070 consciousness, the spirit being something that 00:12:22.070 --> 00:12:24.149 just refuses to be extinguished. Something that 00:12:24.149 --> 00:12:27.009 transcends the physical, transcends time, transcends 00:12:27.009 --> 00:12:29.350 even death itself, carrying everything it's learned 00:12:29.350 --> 00:12:31.700 forward. it really leaves you questioning the 00:12:31.700 --> 00:12:34.240 nature of your own self, your own memories. Where 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:36.379 do they come from? It forces you to ask, what 00:12:36.379 --> 00:12:39.500 actually makes you you? Is it just this one lifetime? 00:12:39.860 --> 00:12:42.879 Or are we all maybe carrying echoes of countless 00:12:42.879 --> 00:12:44.879 lives, shaping who we are right now in ways we 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:46.700 don't even realize? Well, thank you so much for 00:12:46.700 --> 00:12:48.539 joining me on this deep dive today. It was a 00:12:48.539 --> 00:12:51.039 pleasure. It's a book worth diving into. Absolutely. 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.179 Now, I really want to hear from you listening. 00:12:53.460 --> 00:12:55.840 For those who've read The Star Rover, what was 00:12:55.840 --> 00:12:59.570 that one moment? That one past life or maybe 00:12:59.570 --> 00:13:02.230 that one philosophical insight that just completely 00:13:02.230 --> 00:13:04.409 floored you. Yeah, was it a particular adventure 00:13:04.409 --> 00:13:08.070 like Ushu the Archer or Adam Strang the Swordsman? 00:13:08.230 --> 00:13:10.269 Or maybe the validation with Daniel Foss' oar? 00:13:10.490 --> 00:13:13.529 Or just one of Standing's core ideas about spirit 00:13:13.529 --> 00:13:16.070 and matter? Or Oppenheimer's change of heart 00:13:16.070 --> 00:13:19.210 perhaps? Whatever it was, that one thing you 00:13:19.210 --> 00:13:21.700 just couldn't shake. Drop it in the comments 00:13:21.700 --> 00:13:24.679 below. Seriously, I read every single one, and 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:26.440 I'd love to nerd out about it with you. Please 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:28.179 do. Let's get the discussion going. And hey, 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:30.659 if you got any value out of our chat today, if 00:13:30.659 --> 00:13:32.559 it had sparked something for you, please consider 00:13:32.559 --> 00:13:35.059 sharing it with just one other person. You know, 00:13:35.080 --> 00:13:37.179 that friend who's always hunting for their next 00:13:37.179 --> 00:13:40.279 great, thought -provoking read. It really is 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:42.120 the best way to support the show and keep these 00:13:42.120 --> 00:13:44.840 conversations happening. It truly is. Until next 00:13:44.840 --> 00:13:47.480 time. May your stories be rich and your reading 00:13:47.480 --> 00:13:49.720 life even richer. Take care.