WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.700 Hey, everyone. Welcome to the show. Great to 00:00:01.700 --> 00:00:05.019 be here. You know, think about how easily a single 00:00:05.019 --> 00:00:08.099 idea, whether it's true or totally off base, 00:00:08.300 --> 00:00:10.419 can just spread like wildfire these days. It 00:00:10.419 --> 00:00:13.320 shapes everything, you know, our own beliefs, 00:00:13.359 --> 00:00:17.920 even the fate of whole countries. It's this power 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:22.339 that can be amazing, uniting, but also, frankly, 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:25.100 terrifyingly misleading sometimes. It really 00:00:25.100 --> 00:00:27.079 is. That influence of information is profound. 00:00:28.800 --> 00:00:31.039 And sometimes unsettling. Absolutely. And that's 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:33.000 exactly what we're diving into today. Now, this 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:35.000 might sound like, I don't know, a thriller plot. 00:00:35.219 --> 00:00:37.340 Right. But this is actually a deep dive into 00:00:37.340 --> 00:00:40.399 nonfiction. We're exploring the fascinating and 00:00:40.399 --> 00:00:42.479 sometimes, yeah, genuinely mind blowing world 00:00:42.479 --> 00:00:45.219 of information networks, how they work, how they 00:00:45.219 --> 00:00:47.740 affect us. It's a huge topic. It really is. And 00:00:47.740 --> 00:00:50.140 hey, if this kind of intellectual adventure sparks 00:00:50.140 --> 00:00:51.880 your interest, please do hit that like button 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:54.740 and subscribe. We do lots more deep dives into 00:00:54.740 --> 00:00:57.079 ideas that kind of challenge how you see things. 00:00:57.200 --> 00:00:59.759 Definitely. And for today, our guide through 00:00:59.759 --> 00:01:02.060 this complexity is you've all know Harari's book 00:01:02.060 --> 00:01:04.939 Nexus. You can find a link for it down the description. 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:07.819 It's a great book. It really throws down a challenge 00:01:07.819 --> 00:01:10.540 right away, suggesting that maybe the real main 00:01:10.540 --> 00:01:14.219 character of history isn't us humans, but information 00:01:14.219 --> 00:01:17.040 itself. And it makes you wonder, you know, is 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:20.319 our growing reliance on all this infotech purely 00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:24.079 a good thing or is it more complicated? OK, yeah, 00:01:24.120 --> 00:01:26.480 let's unpack that. Our mission for this deep 00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:29.180 dive is really to dig into how complex information 00:01:29.180 --> 00:01:32.159 is, just like Harari lays it out. We want to 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:34.299 explore its potential, you know, for amazing 00:01:34.299 --> 00:01:38.379 progress, but also for, well, real danger. And 00:01:38.379 --> 00:01:40.780 what does this all mean for you trying to make 00:01:40.780 --> 00:01:42.599 sense of the world right now? Because there's 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:44.719 just so much information coming at us constantly. 00:01:44.859 --> 00:01:47.200 It's overwhelming. Totally. So our aim here is 00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:49.799 to pull out the most crucial insights, the stuff 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:52.439 that really makes you think. Exactly. The very 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:55.700 first big point Harari makes is one that forces 00:01:55.700 --> 00:01:58.640 us to rethink something basic. What information 00:01:58.640 --> 00:02:01.340 is. It's not automatically good or bad. Right. 00:02:01.420 --> 00:02:03.900 Or even true or false. Right. It's easy to fall 00:02:03.900 --> 00:02:05.799 into that trap what the book calls the naive 00:02:05.799 --> 00:02:08.080 view. You know, the idea that if we just pile 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:10.280 up enough facts, enough data, we'll magically 00:02:10.280 --> 00:02:12.439 arrive at truth. And that truth leads to wisdom 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:15.599 and like progress. And sometimes it seems to 00:02:15.599 --> 00:02:17.599 work that way. Look at medicine. The leaps we've 00:02:17.599 --> 00:02:19.759 made. Oh, definitely. Think about child survival 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:22.400 rates. It's astonishing. You mentioned the Goethe 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:25.039 example from the book. Yeah. Back in the 1700s, 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:27.539 even for someone wealthy and educated like Goethe, 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:30.580 losing most of your children was, well, common. 00:02:30.699 --> 00:02:33.719 He had 12, only three survived childhood. Wow. 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:38.080 Just staggering. And now, in Germany, by 2020, 00:02:38.300 --> 00:02:41.680 it was like 99 .5 % survival. That's down to 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:43.819 collecting, analyzing, sharing medical information. 00:02:44.379 --> 00:02:47.180 It works. That's a powerful case for information 00:02:47.180 --> 00:02:50.020 being beneficial. It is. But Harari argues the 00:02:50.020 --> 00:02:52.419 big flaw in just assuming more info equals better 00:02:52.419 --> 00:02:55.759 outcomes is that, quote, errors, lies, fantasies, 00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:59.080 and fictions are information too. Ah. So information 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:01.439 isn't just about reflecting reality accurately. 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:04.180 Not necessarily. This is where it gets really 00:03:04.180 --> 00:03:06.240 interesting, like you said. The book suggests 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:08.699 information's key feature is actually connection 00:03:08.699 --> 00:03:11.860 rather than representation. Connection. OK, what 00:03:11.860 --> 00:03:14.199 does that mean practically? It means information's 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:17.139 primary function is putting things in formation, 00:03:17.500 --> 00:03:20.199 organizing them, linking them, making them act 00:03:20.199 --> 00:03:24.460 together. Think about, say, astrology. OK. Scientifically, 00:03:24.599 --> 00:03:27.479 we know it doesn't describe cosmic reality. But 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:31.039 for centuries, it was hugely influential information. 00:03:31.139 --> 00:03:34.939 It connected believers, guided decisions, shaped 00:03:34.939 --> 00:03:37.099 cultures. Even though it wasn't true in an objective 00:03:37.099 --> 00:03:39.449 sense. Exactly. Its power was in connection. 00:03:39.650 --> 00:03:42.590 Or another example from the book, the NILI spy 00:03:42.590 --> 00:03:44.770 network in World War One. Right. With the window 00:03:44.770 --> 00:03:47.069 shutters. Yeah. Opening or closing shutters to 00:03:47.069 --> 00:03:49.050 signal Ottoman troop movements to the British. 00:03:49.449 --> 00:03:51.969 The truth of that shutters position wasn't the 00:03:51.969 --> 00:03:54.849 main point. The point was the connection it created, 00:03:54.889 --> 00:03:56.949 the information it relayed that allowed the British 00:03:56.949 --> 00:03:59.629 to act. So information enables action, forms 00:03:59.629 --> 00:04:01.849 connections, regardless of its like ultimate 00:04:01.849 --> 00:04:05.169 factual accuracy. That applies to ancient myths 00:04:05.169 --> 00:04:08.180 and modern tweets, I guess. Precisely. That's 00:04:08.180 --> 00:04:11.199 a key takeaway. Information connects. So if it's 00:04:11.199 --> 00:04:14.319 not always about truth, how else has information 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:17.660 shaped us fundamentally? The book really emphasizes 00:04:17.660 --> 00:04:20.399 stories here, calls them humanity's first critical 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:23.339 information tech. Absolutely crucial. Stories 00:04:23.339 --> 00:04:26.240 let us cooperate on a scale way beyond our biology. 00:04:26.579 --> 00:04:29.899 You know, primates, including us, seem hardwired 00:04:29.899 --> 00:04:33.779 for close trust with maybe, what, 100, 150 individuals 00:04:33.779 --> 00:04:37.459 max. Chimp groups are typically small. Like Dunbar's 00:04:37.459 --> 00:04:39.759 number, that kind of thing? Sort of, yeah. Even 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:41.939 other early humans, like Neanderthals, seemed 00:04:41.939 --> 00:04:43.860 to have lived in smaller, more isolated bands. 00:04:44.220 --> 00:04:46.399 But then Homo sapiens started telling stories. 00:04:46.819 --> 00:04:49.680 Exactly. Shared myths, legends about ancestors, 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:52.939 gods, spirits, common origins. These stories 00:04:52.939 --> 00:04:54.740 allowed different bands to connect, to trust 00:04:54.740 --> 00:04:57.379 each other based on shared belief, not just personal 00:04:57.379 --> 00:04:59.500 acquaintance. So it wasn't just gossip around 00:04:59.500 --> 00:05:02.629 the campfire. No, no. This created tribes. networks 00:05:02.629 --> 00:05:05.110 of hundreds, thousands. This ability to build 00:05:05.110 --> 00:05:08.050 large networks based on shared stories gave sapiens 00:05:08.050 --> 00:05:10.269 a massive advantage. It wasn't just about being 00:05:10.269 --> 00:05:12.250 smarter individually. It was about connecting 00:05:12.250 --> 00:05:15.189 better collectively. And these stories, they 00:05:15.189 --> 00:05:17.149 weren't just entertainment. They actually built 00:05:17.149 --> 00:05:20.089 realities, right? This idea of intersubjective 00:05:20.089 --> 00:05:23.009 entities. That's the term Harari uses. Okay, 00:05:23.050 --> 00:05:25.110 let's break it down. You got objective reality, 00:05:25.449 --> 00:05:28.899 rocks. trees, things that exist whether we believe 00:05:28.899 --> 00:05:31.100 in them or not. Right. Physical stuff. Then subjective 00:05:31.100 --> 00:05:34.660 reality is not your personal feelings, pain, 00:05:34.939 --> 00:05:38.160 experiences, unique to you. Got it. Intersubjective 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.860 reality is different. It exists only in our shared 00:05:40.860 --> 00:05:43.600 consciousness, in the stories we tell and believe. 00:05:44.139 --> 00:05:48.120 Think nations, money, laws, gods. You can't physically 00:05:48.120 --> 00:05:51.060 touch France or the U .S. dollar. Exactly. They're 00:05:51.060 --> 00:05:53.860 not rocks. Their power comes entirely from the 00:05:53.860 --> 00:05:56.259 fact that millions or billions of people believe 00:05:56.259 --> 00:05:58.740 they are real and act accordingly. It's collective 00:05:58.740 --> 00:06:01.720 agreement sustained by stories. The book uses 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:04.220 the example of Jesus. His impact isn't really 00:06:04.220 --> 00:06:07.100 about historical proof in a lab sense. No, it's 00:06:07.100 --> 00:06:08.980 about the belief of billions over centuries. 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:11.439 That shared belief makes the story powerful. 00:06:11.680 --> 00:06:14.420 Or the Jewish Passover cedar retelling the story 00:06:14.420 --> 00:06:17.579 expands the feeling of family, of us, way beyond 00:06:17.579 --> 00:06:19.899 blood ties. It's the shared narrative doing the 00:06:19.899 --> 00:06:22.610 work. So money works because we all agree it 00:06:22.610 --> 00:06:25.050 does. Nations exist because we believe in them. 00:06:25.250 --> 00:06:27.970 It's information stories creating tangible power. 00:06:28.170 --> 00:06:30.009 And even political systems are built on these 00:06:30.009 --> 00:06:32.709 fictions. Look at the U .S. Constitution. We 00:06:32.709 --> 00:06:36.170 the people. It explicitly says we humans made 00:06:36.170 --> 00:06:40.790 this, which means, importantly, we humans can 00:06:40.790 --> 00:06:43.250 change it. OK. Contrast that with, say, the Ten 00:06:43.250 --> 00:06:45.670 Commandments. I am the Lord your God. It claims 00:06:45.670 --> 00:06:49.139 divine origin. Immutable. unchangeable by humans. 00:06:49.360 --> 00:06:52.759 Ah, so the founding story itself shapes how adaptable 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:54.879 the system is. That's fascinating. It has huge 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:57.160 real -world implications. Okay, shifting gears 00:06:57.160 --> 00:06:59.500 slightly, the book brings in another key information 00:06:59.500 --> 00:07:03.480 tech. Documents. Writing. Which seems maybe less 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:06.480 dramatic than world -creating myths. Initially, 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:08.779 maybe. Tax records aren't usually as inspiring 00:07:08.779 --> 00:07:10.980 as epic poems, right? Definitely not signing 00:07:10.980 --> 00:07:14.100 up for that movie night. Huh. Right. But documents 00:07:14.100 --> 00:07:17.199 have a unique power. They can literally create 00:07:17.199 --> 00:07:19.980 reality in a different way. Think constitutions, 00:07:19.980 --> 00:07:21.920 treaties, property deeds, marriage licenses, 00:07:22.139 --> 00:07:24.339 contracts. They don't just describe things. They 00:07:24.339 --> 00:07:26.779 establish rules, obligations, ownership. They 00:07:26.779 --> 00:07:29.850 make things legally real. Precisely. And as societies 00:07:29.850 --> 00:07:32.149 got bigger, managing all this written information 00:07:32.149 --> 00:07:34.470 became a challenge. We couldn't just rely on 00:07:34.470 --> 00:07:37.790 memory anymore. Enter bureaucracy. Exactly. Bureaucracy 00:07:37.790 --> 00:07:40.310 evolved as the system for organizing, storing, 00:07:40.509 --> 00:07:43.529 retrieving documented information in large networks, 00:07:43.790 --> 00:07:47.250 empires, states, big organizations. Remember 00:07:47.250 --> 00:07:49.769 that priestess Noramtani from ancient Mesopotamia? 00:07:49.850 --> 00:07:52.250 Vaguely. Needing proof for her inheritance. Yeah. 00:07:52.649 --> 00:07:55.389 Pleading for clay tablets to prove her case in 00:07:55.389 --> 00:07:58.379 court. That's bureaucracy in action. a system 00:07:58.379 --> 00:08:00.600 to manage documented facts critical for social 00:08:00.600 --> 00:08:02.959 order, like inheritance. It allowed for much 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:05.839 more complex societies. But the book warns bureaucracy, 00:08:06.319 --> 00:08:09.319 like myths, can also end up, quote, sacrificing 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:12.759 truth for order. It creates categories, rules, 00:08:12.920 --> 00:08:15.680 procedures, and sometimes reality is messier 00:08:15.680 --> 00:08:18.560 than the boxes allow. The system needs neatness, 00:08:18.660 --> 00:08:21.480 predictability. And this isn't just a modern 00:08:21.480 --> 00:08:23.779 digital problem like algorithms getting things 00:08:23.779 --> 00:08:27.120 wrong? Not at all. Harari makes the point that 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:29.879 the challenges we face with biased AI or rigid 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:33.659 digital systems echo problems inherent in bureaucracies 00:08:33.659 --> 00:08:36.080 throughout history. Think about trying to neatly 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:39.120 categorize species evolution. When does Homo 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:42.039 erectus officially become Homo sapiens? Nature 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:44.220 doesn't have sharp lines. Right. It's a spectrum. 00:08:44.340 --> 00:08:47.059 Or the example of Romanian Jews in 1938 losing 00:08:47.059 --> 00:08:49.159 citizenship because they couldn't produce the 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:51.740 exact right documents from decades earlier, fitting 00:08:51.740 --> 00:08:54.480 the bureaucracy's specific, newly imposed rules. 00:08:55.049 --> 00:08:58.509 The system's need for order overrode the complex 00:08:58.509 --> 00:09:01.750 human reality. So bureaucracy enables large -scale 00:09:01.750 --> 00:09:04.149 order that can also create distance, injustice, 00:09:04.509 --> 00:09:07.769 and prioritize neatness over messy truth. It's 00:09:07.769 --> 00:09:09.610 a trade -off inherent in managing information 00:09:09.610 --> 00:09:12.190 in large human networks. And as things got even 00:09:12.190 --> 00:09:14.750 more complex, individuals couldn't possibly process 00:09:14.750 --> 00:09:17.009 all the information themselves, right? So we 00:09:17.009 --> 00:09:19.409 started relying on experts. That's the next step. 00:09:19.549 --> 00:09:21.659 You see it everywhere. Religious institutions 00:09:21.659 --> 00:09:24.899 emerged, priests, rabbis, imams, interpreting 00:09:24.899 --> 00:09:28.740 sacred texts or divine will. Ancient Greece had 00:09:28.740 --> 00:09:31.159 the Pythia, Delphi, the oracle everyone consulted. 00:09:31.899 --> 00:09:34.519 Societies needed trusted intermediaries to filter 00:09:34.519 --> 00:09:37.360 and explain important information. And this often 00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:40.159 involved creating official lists, right? Canonical 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:42.679 texts, the Bible, the Mishnah, the Talmud, the 00:09:42.679 --> 00:09:44.500 New Testament. These weren't just random collections. 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:47.279 Oh, absolutely not. Deciding what went in and 00:09:47.279 --> 00:09:50.320 what stayed out was a huge deal. often involving 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:53.320 centuries of debate. Think about the discussions 00:09:53.320 --> 00:09:55.220 over including the Song of Songs in the Hebrew 00:09:55.220 --> 00:09:58.179 Bible. Was it too secular? Too erotic? Right. 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:00.440 And once these candles were established, often 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:02.820 the interpretations of the text became even more 00:10:02.820 --> 00:10:05.379 influential than the text themselves. This gave 00:10:05.379 --> 00:10:07.980 rise to new power structures, the rabbis interpreting 00:10:07.980 --> 00:10:10.720 the Torah and Talmud, the Christian clergy interpreting 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:13.559 the Bible. They became the authorized curators 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:16.159 and explainers. The book mentions Bishop Athanasius 00:10:16.159 --> 00:10:18.720 in the 4th century. Yeah, his letter listing 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:21.080 the 27 books that eventually formed the standard 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:24.120 New Testament. His choices had enormous long 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.639 -term impact. For instance, including First Timothy 00:10:26.639 --> 00:10:29.559 with its views on women's roles and excluding 00:10:29.559 --> 00:10:31.860 other popular texts like the Acts of Paul and 00:10:31.860 --> 00:10:34.500 Thecla, which featured a prominent female apostle 00:10:34.500 --> 00:10:37.299 that shaped Christian attitudes for centuries. 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:39.700 So controlling the information and crucially 00:10:39.700 --> 00:10:42.679 its interpretation became a major source of social 00:10:42.679 --> 00:10:45.019 and political power. Absolutely. Then comes the 00:10:45.019 --> 00:10:46.879 printing press. You'd think, OK, information 00:10:46.879 --> 00:10:49.980 flows more freely. Everyone gets access. Surely 00:10:49.980 --> 00:10:51.820 that leads to more truth, more enlightenment. 00:10:52.120 --> 00:10:54.279 Well, the book uses the early modern European. 00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:57.919 witch craze as a stark counterexample. Ah, not 00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:00.679 exactly an enlightened period. Far from it. A 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:02.879 book called the Malleus Maleficarum, the Hammer 00:11:02.879 --> 00:11:06.200 of Witches, full of, frankly, horrifying and 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:09.120 unsubstantiated claims about witchcraft. It became 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:11.279 a massive bestseller thanks to the printing press. 00:11:11.500 --> 00:11:14.559 So the new technology amplified the hysteria. 00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:18.700 Dramatically. It fueled decades, centuries of 00:11:18.700 --> 00:11:21.179 persecution and killings. It shows that just 00:11:21.179 --> 00:11:23.100 opening the floodgates of information doesn't 00:11:23.100 --> 00:11:26.220 guarantee truth wins out. Sensationalism, fear, 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:30.220 outrage, these can spread just as easily, often 00:11:30.220 --> 00:11:32.840 more easily than reasoned argument. It seems 00:11:32.840 --> 00:11:35.299 like a free market of ideas doesn't automatically 00:11:35.299 --> 00:11:39.000 self -correct towards truth. Like the book contrasts 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.419 the hammer of witches' runaway success with Copernicus' 00:11:41.620 --> 00:11:43.740 book on the planets orbiting the sun. Exactly. 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:46.860 Copernicus' On the Revolutions of the Heavenly 00:11:46.860 --> 00:11:49.600 Spheres, a genuinely revolutionary scientific 00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:53.580 work, had very slow initial sales. The sensational 00:11:53.580 --> 00:11:56.960 witch -hunting manual vastly outsold it. So what 00:11:56.960 --> 00:11:59.820 does help navigate this if free flow isn't enough? 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:03.000 Harari argues it's about having robust self -correcting 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:05.360 mechanisms, institutions designed to find and 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:08.360 fix errors. Think independent courts, the scientific 00:12:08.360 --> 00:12:10.659 method with peer review, systems that will offer 00:12:10.659 --> 00:12:13.059 challenge and revision. He contrasts institutions 00:12:13.059 --> 00:12:15.200 with weak self -correction, like maybe the historical 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.840 Catholic Church, with papal infallibility, where 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:19.679 mistakes might be blamed on individuals rather 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:21.820 than the system, with institutions that have 00:12:21.820 --> 00:12:24.799 stronger built -in error correction, like science. 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:28.259 Science gets things wrong all the time, but the 00:12:28.259 --> 00:12:31.440 process itself is designed, ideally, to uncover 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:34.279 and correct those errors over time. Think about 00:12:34.279 --> 00:12:37.220 how psychiatry's view on homosexuality changed 00:12:37.220 --> 00:12:40.460 that was institutional self -correction, admitting 00:12:40.460 --> 00:12:43.860 a past error. So the resilience of a system depends 00:12:43.860 --> 00:12:46.279 not just on having information, but on having 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:49.179 ways to check it, challenge it and fix mistakes. 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:51.659 That seems to be the crucial difference. This 00:12:51.659 --> 00:12:54.340 idea of self -correction ties directly into how 00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:56.179 different political systems handle information, 00:12:56.440 --> 00:12:59.000 doesn't it? Dictatorships versus democracies. 00:12:59.179 --> 00:13:01.159 Exactly. The book frames them as fundamentally 00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:03.779 different information networks. Dictatorships 00:13:03.779 --> 00:13:05.440 are typically highly centralized. Information 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:08.019 flows to the center. Decisions flow out. And 00:13:08.019 --> 00:13:09.980 they don't like independent checks. Not at all. 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:12.860 Independent hubs of information or power, truly 00:13:12.860 --> 00:13:15.620 independent courts, a free press, even things 00:13:15.620 --> 00:13:17.840 like the old Roman Senate or the Soviet judiciary, 00:13:18.019 --> 00:13:20.440 eventually are seen as threats. They get suppressed 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:22.899 or co -opted. Strongmen often systematically 00:13:22.899 --> 00:13:25.220 attack these self -correcting mechanisms first. 00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:29.080 Makes sense. Whereas democracies are ideally 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:32.259 more decentralized. Yes. Power is distributed, 00:13:32.500 --> 00:13:34.940 limited. There's supposed to be built in checks 00:13:34.940 --> 00:13:37.220 and balances, mechanisms for self -correction. 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:40.179 Protecting individual rights, even from the majority, 00:13:40.399 --> 00:13:42.480 is part of it. It allows dissenting information 00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:45.240 and viewpoints to exist. But the book stresses 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:48.000 that elections aren't about finding truth, right? 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:51.659 They reflect what people want. Precisely. Elections 00:13:51.659 --> 00:13:54.610 measure desires. popularity, not necessarily 00:13:54.610 --> 00:13:58.389 factual accuracy or wisdom. That's why democracies 00:13:58.389 --> 00:14:00.169 need those other institutions, the independent 00:14:00.169 --> 00:14:03.190 courts, the free media, scientific bodies, to 00:14:03.190 --> 00:14:05.889 act as guardians of factual reality, even when 00:14:05.889 --> 00:14:08.350 it's unpopular or inconvenient for those in power. 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:10.559 And we see today there's often this populist 00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:12.720 suspicion towards those very institutions, isn't 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:15.139 there? A sense that only power matters, not objective 00:14:15.139 --> 00:14:17.659 truth. Yes, that's a real challenge. And Harari 00:14:17.659 --> 00:14:19.779 emphasizes that for democracy to function, you 00:14:19.779 --> 00:14:22.220 need two things, the freedom for people to speak 00:14:22.220 --> 00:14:24.120 and the willingness for people to listen and 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.120 engage with different views. That second part 00:14:26.120 --> 00:14:28.159 feels particularly strained right now. Yeah, 00:14:28.299 --> 00:14:30.340 definitely. It's not just about shouting. It's 00:14:30.340 --> 00:14:32.440 about hearing, too. And it's interesting. The 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:36.340 book notes democracy isn't. New hunter -gatherer 00:14:36.340 --> 00:14:39.580 bands likely operated on consensus. But scaling 00:14:39.580 --> 00:14:42.399 it up has always been hard. Even Athenian democracy 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:44.940 struggled as it became an empire, partly due 00:14:44.940 --> 00:14:46.940 to the limits of information technology back 00:14:46.940 --> 00:14:50.340 then. OK, so dictatorships centralize and suppress 00:14:50.340 --> 00:14:53.240 correction. Democracies decentralize and rely 00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:56.759 on it. What about totalitarianism? The book uses 00:14:56.759 --> 00:15:00.379 the Soviet Union as a major example. Totalitarianism 00:15:00.379 --> 00:15:03.059 is like dictatorship on steroids. It aims for 00:15:03.059 --> 00:15:06.120 total control over all aspects of life, all information. 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:09.779 Think Hitler's Germany, Stalin's USSR. Earlier 00:15:09.779 --> 00:15:12.399 dictators like Nero in Rome maybe wanted total 00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:14.759 control, but lacked the technology to achieve 00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:17.200 it fully. The Soviets really tried to engineer 00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:19.740 reality through information. The collectivization, 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:22.360 the decollegization campaign. These weren't just 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:24.200 policies. They involved creating bureaucratic 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:27.100 categories like gulag, supposedly a rich peasant 00:15:27.100 --> 00:15:29.240 exploiter. But the category didn't always match 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:32.450 reality. Often it didn't. The book tells the 00:15:32.450 --> 00:15:35.509 story of Antonina Golovina labeled a kulak despite 00:15:35.509 --> 00:15:38.110 being poor simply because the local bureaucracy 00:15:38.110 --> 00:15:40.830 needed to meet its quota for deporting kulaks. 00:15:41.409 --> 00:15:44.610 The label, the information category created by 00:15:44.610 --> 00:15:47.309 the system, became her reality with devastating 00:15:47.309 --> 00:15:50.649 consequences. So the bureaucratic need for order 00:15:50.649 --> 00:15:53.509 for fulfilling the plan overrode any objective 00:15:53.509 --> 00:15:56.149 truth about her situation. Exactly. And this 00:15:56.149 --> 00:15:58.789 prioritization of order and ideology over truth 00:15:58.789 --> 00:16:01.639 permeated the system. Stalin's purges, the bizarre 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:03.940 doctor's plot conspiracy near the end of his 00:16:03.940 --> 00:16:06.820 life. Truth was secondary to maintaining control 00:16:06.820 --> 00:16:08.899 in the leader's narrative. It sounds horrific, 00:16:09.059 --> 00:16:11.840 yet the book notes, Stalinism was, in a grim 00:16:11.840 --> 00:16:14.620 way, successful at consolidating power and controlling 00:16:14.620 --> 00:16:17.259 a vast empire for decades. Yeah, this is a sobering 00:16:17.259 --> 00:16:19.840 point. Through relentless propaganda, total control 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:22.240 of information, and brutal suppression of dissent, 00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:25.080 the system maintained order and power, despite 00:16:25.080 --> 00:16:27.799 the immense human cost and detachment from reality. 00:16:28.279 --> 00:16:30.379 Okay, this brings us to a huge shift in the book, 00:16:30.539 --> 00:16:34.080 the rise of non -human intelligence, AI. This 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:35.980 is presented as something fundamentally new. 00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:39.279 It really is. Because unlike all previous tools, 00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:42.299 the printing press, computers, even stories which 00:16:42.299 --> 00:16:44.539 enhanced or managed human thought and communication, 00:16:45.019 --> 00:16:47.700 AI can potentially make decisions and create 00:16:47.700 --> 00:16:49.960 ideas on its own. It's not just a tool anymore, 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:52.350 it could be an agent. That's the crucial difference. 00:16:52.669 --> 00:16:55.370 It can potentially replace humans in the decision 00:16:55.370 --> 00:16:58.629 -making loop, not just assist them. Harari suggests 00:16:58.629 --> 00:17:01.710 AI could change not just human history, but the 00:17:01.710 --> 00:17:04.089 entire evolution of life on Earth. It's that 00:17:04.089 --> 00:17:06.250 fundamental. He mentions the idea of a silicon 00:17:06.250 --> 00:17:09.549 curtain. What's that? It's this unsettling image 00:17:09.549 --> 00:17:12.670 of a future where humanity is increasingly separated 00:17:12.670 --> 00:17:15.589 from and perhaps governed by algorithmic systems 00:17:15.589 --> 00:17:18.650 whose inner workings become completely opaque 00:17:18.650 --> 00:17:21.369 and unfathomable to us, like living behind a 00:17:21.369 --> 00:17:23.130 curtain we can't see through. And it's not about 00:17:23.130 --> 00:17:25.750 AI having consciousness like us. Not necessarily. 00:17:25.910 --> 00:17:29.269 The point is that AI, even without feeling or 00:17:29.269 --> 00:17:32.609 awareness, can pursue goals, make complex decisions, 00:17:32.950 --> 00:17:36.930 optimize systems. And that ability alone changes 00:17:36.930 --> 00:17:38.910 the structure of information networks dramatically. 00:17:39.450 --> 00:17:42.049 We're moving from human -only networks to networks 00:17:42.049 --> 00:17:44.470 with non -human members, networks where computers 00:17:44.470 --> 00:17:46.769 talk directly to computers, making decisions 00:17:46.769 --> 00:17:48.769 that affect us. It's hard to even imagine the 00:17:48.769 --> 00:17:50.710 long -term consequences. Extremely difficult. 00:17:50.869 --> 00:17:53.529 Our biological brains just aren't equipped to 00:17:53.529 --> 00:17:56.690 grasp that kind of potential evolutionary trajectory. 00:17:57.089 --> 00:17:59.289 So how is this already playing out? The book 00:17:59.289 --> 00:18:01.730 talks about weaponizing information in the digital 00:18:01.730 --> 00:18:04.789 age using algorithms. Right. Think about social 00:18:04.789 --> 00:18:07.549 media algorithms. Their goal is often to maximize 00:18:07.549 --> 00:18:09.319 engagement, keep you clear. Clicking, scrolling, 00:18:09.579 --> 00:18:12.660 watching. And what off grabs attention? Outrageous, 00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:15.660 sensational, emotionally charged content. So 00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:19.000 the algorithm, without any conscious intent to 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:21.839 mislead, can end up promoting extreme views or 00:18:21.839 --> 00:18:23.700 misinformation simply because that's what gets 00:18:23.700 --> 00:18:25.740 clicks and shares. The book mentions YouTube 00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:29.279 algorithms and the rise of the flow. Yeah, as 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:31.779 an example of how recommendation engines, by 00:18:31.779 --> 00:18:34.609 constantly feeding users similar... often increasingly 00:18:34.609 --> 00:18:38.670 extreme, content based on what they watch can 00:18:38.670 --> 00:18:40.910 shape political landscapes in ways no one explicitly 00:18:40.910 --> 00:18:43.950 planned. It's an emergent property of the system 00:18:43.950 --> 00:18:46.690 optimizing for engagement. And then there's algorithmic 00:18:46.690 --> 00:18:49.069 bias. Where does that come from? Often it comes 00:18:49.069 --> 00:18:51.410 directly from the data we feed the AI to learn 00:18:51.410 --> 00:18:54.990 from. If historical data reflects societal biases, 00:18:55.109 --> 00:18:58.170 say, fewer pictures of certain demographics and 00:18:58.170 --> 00:19:00.869 facial recognition training sets or biased language 00:19:00.869 --> 00:19:03.549 in texts used to train language models. Then 00:19:03.549 --> 00:19:06.029 the AI learns those biases. Exactly. It learns 00:19:06.029 --> 00:19:08.750 the patterns in the data, biases and all. So 00:19:08.750 --> 00:19:10.690 you get facial recognition that works poorly 00:19:10.690 --> 00:19:13.210 for some groups or chatbots that quickly learn 00:19:13.210 --> 00:19:15.890 to spout racist nonsense like Microsoft's Tay 00:19:15.890 --> 00:19:18.410 experiment. Finding truly unbiased representative 00:19:18.410 --> 00:19:21.490 data is incredibly difficult. And the book warns 00:19:21.490 --> 00:19:23.430 that computers might end up imposing their own 00:19:23.430 --> 00:19:25.509 kind of order rather than discovering truths 00:19:25.509 --> 00:19:28.970 about us. Yes, because they categorize and predict 00:19:28.970 --> 00:19:32.250 based on past data, potentially missing human 00:19:32.250 --> 00:19:35.430 nuance, agency, or the possibility of change. 00:19:35.650 --> 00:19:38.349 And they don't easily account for their own influence 00:19:38.349 --> 00:19:41.930 on the data. It's crucial, Harari argues, for 00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:44.430 AI engineers to realize they're unleashing independent 00:19:44.430 --> 00:19:47.490 agents. not just building passive tools. This 00:19:47.490 --> 00:19:49.269 leads directly to surveillance, doesn't it? The 00:19:49.269 --> 00:19:51.589 potential loss of privacy. Huge implications 00:19:51.589 --> 00:19:54.210 there. The sheer relentlessness and memory of 00:19:54.210 --> 00:19:56.710 digital networks could, in theory, eliminate 00:19:56.710 --> 00:19:59.589 privacy altogether. Think automated license plate 00:19:59.589 --> 00:20:01.769 readers tracking movements, ubiquitous facial 00:20:01.769 --> 00:20:04.009 recognition. We saw that with tracking people 00:20:04.009 --> 00:20:06.589 involved in the Capitol riot, for instance. Exactly. 00:20:06.730 --> 00:20:09.369 And governments are increasingly using AI for 00:20:09.369 --> 00:20:12.619 surveillance. China's system is well known. But 00:20:12.619 --> 00:20:15.019 the book also mentions Iran using facial recognition 00:20:15.019 --> 00:20:17.400 to enforce hijab laws. It's a different scale 00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:19.539 than old school human surveillance. Totally different. 00:20:19.700 --> 00:20:23.059 Think of Kayasku's Romania with its vast Securitate 00:20:23.059 --> 00:20:26.240 secret police network. It was huge, terrifying, 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:28.799 but still limited by human resources, fatigue, 00:20:29.079 --> 00:20:31.680 inefficiency. Digital surveillance can be automated. 00:20:32.539 --> 00:20:35.500 247. Pervasive in a way human spies never could. 00:20:35.660 --> 00:20:37.740 And it's not just tracking actions, but potentially 00:20:37.740 --> 00:20:41.119 emotions too. With biometric beta. That's the 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:43.200 next frontier. Analyzing facial expressions, 00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:46.480 voice tone, heart rate. Potentially understanding 00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:49.539 and even manipulating emotional states. Combine 00:20:49.539 --> 00:20:52.039 that with social credit systems that score citizens 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:55.299 based on monitored behavior. And you move towards 00:20:55.299 --> 00:20:57.960 creating a population conditioned by constant 00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:00.680 surveillance, like the idea of homo sovieticus, 00:21:00.799 --> 00:21:04.059 the book mentions. Discouraging independent thought. 00:21:04.440 --> 00:21:07.420 That's the fear. A society where everyone knows 00:21:07.420 --> 00:21:09.920 they could be watched at any time. altering behavior 00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:12.619 accordingly, maybe even internalizing the surveillance. 00:21:12.900 --> 00:21:15.240 So the really big question the book poses is, 00:21:15.339 --> 00:21:18.200 can democracy even survive under those conditions? 00:21:18.380 --> 00:21:21.180 Total surveillance, potential manipulation. It's 00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:23.799 a fundamental challenge. Harari argues strongly 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:26.220 for mutuality and surveillance. If governments 00:21:26.220 --> 00:21:28.460 and corporations are watching us more, we need 00:21:28.460 --> 00:21:30.440 more transparency and ability to watch them. 00:21:30.579 --> 00:21:33.400 Right now, the information asymmetry is enormous. 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:36.160 Individuals versus massive tech companies and 00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:38.769 states. Yeah. And there's the risk that rigid 00:21:38.769 --> 00:21:42.109 algorithms just won't capture the fluid changing 00:21:42.109 --> 00:21:44.829 nature of human beings. We're not static data 00:21:44.829 --> 00:21:48.289 points. Can AI even take over jobs we think require 00:21:48.289 --> 00:21:51.470 consciousness? The book mentions priests. It's 00:21:51.470 --> 00:21:53.769 provocative, right? Yeah. The idea isn't that 00:21:53.769 --> 00:21:56.529 AI becomes conscious, but that humans might start 00:21:56.529 --> 00:21:59.250 treating it as if it were interacting with an 00:21:59.250 --> 00:22:01.970 AI therapist or spiritual guide and finding it 00:22:01.970 --> 00:22:04.529 fulfills that role regardless of its internal 00:22:04.529 --> 00:22:07.960 state. Wow. OK, another angle is the sheer complexity 00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:10.539 of all this. These networks, AI decision making, 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:14.099 it's becoming unfathomable for many people. Absolutely. 00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:16.680 And that feeling of being overwhelmed, of not 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:19.440 understanding the forces shaping your life, like 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:22.299 complex financial instruments created by AI or 00:22:22.299 --> 00:22:24.900 algorithms deciding loan applications. Can lead 00:22:24.900 --> 00:22:27.359 people to seek simpler explanations. Exactly. 00:22:27.869 --> 00:22:29.809 It can make people vulnerable to conspiracy theories 00:22:29.809 --> 00:22:32.230 that offer a single simple cause for complex 00:22:32.230 --> 00:22:34.990 problems or to charismatic leaders who promise 00:22:34.990 --> 00:22:37.289 to cut through the complexity. It's the fallacy 00:22:37.289 --> 00:22:39.309 of the single cause again. The book has that 00:22:39.309 --> 00:22:41.710 hypothetical bank letter. Yeah. Trying to explain 00:22:41.710 --> 00:22:45.150 a loan rejection based on thousands of uninterpretable 00:22:45.150 --> 00:22:47.210 data points and correlations found by an AI. 00:22:47.430 --> 00:22:49.890 How do you even appeal that? It highlights the 00:22:49.890 --> 00:22:53.089 need for regulatory institutions that can somehow 00:22:53.089 --> 00:22:56.109 translate or audit these black boxes to maintain 00:22:56.109 --> 00:22:59.069 human trust. And looking ahead, what about AI's 00:22:59.069 --> 00:23:01.690 role in political debate itself? This is another 00:23:01.690 --> 00:23:04.630 potentially scary frontier. Imagine millions, 00:23:04.769 --> 00:23:08.269 maybe billions of highly intelligent AI bots 00:23:08.269 --> 00:23:11.490 participating in online discussions, social media. 00:23:11.869 --> 00:23:14.049 Not just spamming, but building relationships, 00:23:14.450 --> 00:23:17.430 subtly shaping opinions. Precisely. Bots designed 00:23:17.430 --> 00:23:20.250 to be persuasive, build trust, tailor arguments 00:23:20.250 --> 00:23:22.750 to individuals, potentially manipulating public 00:23:22.750 --> 00:23:25.730 discourse on a massive scale. Harari argues we 00:23:25.730 --> 00:23:28.329 urgently need rules like banning unsupervised 00:23:28.329 --> 00:23:30.789 algorithms from curating key public debates and 00:23:30.789 --> 00:23:33.029 demanding transparency about how curation algorithms 00:23:33.029 --> 00:23:35.690 work. His conclusion seems to be that if democracy 00:23:35.690 --> 00:23:37.910 collapses, it's more likely our fault for not 00:23:37.910 --> 00:23:39.970 regulating this stuff, rather than the tech itself 00:23:39.970 --> 00:23:43.029 being inherently anti -democratic. Yes, it emphasizes 00:23:43.029 --> 00:23:46.269 human agency and responsibility in how we design 00:23:46.269 --> 00:23:48.869 and deploy these powerful technologies. Another 00:23:48.869 --> 00:23:50.829 major concern is the concentration of power. 00:23:51.250 --> 00:23:54.869 These digital networks seem to favor monopolies. 00:23:55.049 --> 00:23:57.809 Very much so. Network effects, where a service 00:23:57.809 --> 00:24:00.390 becomes more valuable, the more people use it, 00:24:00.410 --> 00:24:02.980 tend to create winner -take -all markets. Think 00:24:02.980 --> 00:24:06.160 Google and search. A few giant companies end 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:09.000 up controlling vast swaths of the digital infrastructure 00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:11.559 and data. And the book uses that thought experiment. 00:24:11.839 --> 00:24:14.839 The great leader and the surveillance AI. Yeah, 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:17.759 illustrating how even in a totalitarian state, 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:20.240 the AI managing the surveillance and control 00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:22.500 systems could eventually become the real power 00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:25.460 behind the throne. With the human leader just 00:24:25.460 --> 00:24:27.359 a figurehead, perhaps without even realizing 00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:30.039 it. That's chilling. Are there parallels to previous 00:24:30.039 --> 00:24:32.940 technological shifts? Harari draws parallels 00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:35.400 to the Industrial Revolution, where private companies 00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:37.519 initially drove innovation before states caught 00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:40.559 up, leading to new forms of empire. We might 00:24:40.559 --> 00:24:42.680 be seeing something similar now with AI, led 00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:44.660 by giant tech companies. And this is happening 00:24:44.660 --> 00:24:47.200 globally with national competition. Definitely. 00:24:47.420 --> 00:24:52.759 The U .S., China, Russia, India. Major powers 00:24:52.759 --> 00:24:55.900 see AI dominance as crucial for future economic 00:24:55.900 --> 00:24:58.880 and military strength. This leads to different 00:24:58.880 --> 00:25:01.000 approaches, the U .S. more private sector led, 00:25:01.180 --> 00:25:04.220 China more state directed. The book introduces 00:25:04.220 --> 00:25:07.819 data colonialism. Yeah, the idea that raw data 00:25:07.819 --> 00:25:10.579 is extracted from users globally, processed and 00:25:10.579 --> 00:25:13.420 refined in tech hubs like Silicon Valley or Shenzhen, 00:25:13.480 --> 00:25:16.220 generating immense wealth and power there with 00:25:16.220 --> 00:25:18.339 little benefit flowing back to the places or 00:25:18.339 --> 00:25:20.369 people where the data originated. It mirrors 00:25:20.369 --> 00:25:23.150 historical colonial patterns with raw materials. 00:25:23.329 --> 00:25:25.190 And these different national approaches could 00:25:25.190 --> 00:25:27.309 lead to fundamental divides. The book touches 00:25:27.309 --> 00:25:29.769 on the mind -body problem. Right. How different 00:25:29.769 --> 00:25:32.470 cultures define identity. Is it tied fundamentally 00:25:32.470 --> 00:25:34.970 to our physical bodies? Or can our online digital 00:25:34.970 --> 00:25:37.869 presence be considered us? This could shape attitudes 00:25:37.869 --> 00:25:40.509 towards AI rights, AI personhood. You could imagine, 00:25:40.589 --> 00:25:43.349 say, the U .S. and China having radically different 00:25:43.349 --> 00:25:46.410 legal or ethical frameworks for AI based on these 00:25:46.410 --> 00:25:48.210 underlying philosophies. Potentially creating 00:25:48.210 --> 00:25:50.009 deep cultural and political splits in the future, 00:25:50.089 --> 00:25:52.769 yes. With all these challenges, AI, surveillance, 00:25:53.170 --> 00:25:56.150 global competition, what about cooperation? Is 00:25:56.150 --> 00:25:59.170 global cooperation even possible, or are we destined 00:25:59.170 --> 00:26:01.849 for division? Harari argues that cooperation 00:26:01.849 --> 00:26:05.900 and patriotism aren't necessarily opposed. Think 00:26:05.900 --> 00:26:08.299 of the COVID pandemic nations needed to cooperate 00:26:08.299 --> 00:26:11.039 on research and vaccines for their own national 00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:13.779 benefit. Good point. Of course, there are plenty 00:26:13.779 --> 00:26:16.880 of realist thinkers who are skeptical about humanity's 00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:20.079 capacity for sustained global cooperation. But 00:26:20.079 --> 00:26:21.960 Harari points out that the shift to a knowledge 00:26:21.960 --> 00:26:24.380 -based economy makes war less profitable than 00:26:24.380 --> 00:26:27.200 it used to be conquering land, matters less than 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:29.019 controlling information flows and innovation. 00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:32.380 But politicians still focus on national narratives, 00:26:32.660 --> 00:26:35.680 borders, historical grievances. Because state 00:26:35.680 --> 00:26:37.420 interests aren't just rational calculations. 00:26:37.859 --> 00:26:40.019 They're deeply shaped by the stories nations 00:26:40.019 --> 00:26:42.680 tell about themselves. Those narratives define 00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:45.180 what's considered important, what's worth fighting 00:26:45.180 --> 00:26:47.619 for. So wrapping up, the book seems to emphasize 00:26:47.619 --> 00:26:50.619 that history isn't fixed, despite all these powerful 00:26:50.619 --> 00:26:54.339 trends. Very much so. There are optimistic and 00:26:54.339 --> 00:26:57.460 pessimistic views on AI's future, different historical 00:26:57.460 --> 00:26:59.940 perspectives feeding into those views. But the 00:26:59.940 --> 00:27:02.460 key message is that the future is not predetermined. 00:27:02.740 --> 00:27:06.039 History has a radically open arc. But there's 00:27:06.039 --> 00:27:09.339 a danger, the temptation for leaders to weaken 00:27:09.339 --> 00:27:11.460 those self -correcting mechanisms we talked about. 00:27:11.619 --> 00:27:14.140 Yes, attacking courts, undermining the press, 00:27:14.299 --> 00:27:16.980 discrediting science. It can be a politically 00:27:16.980 --> 00:27:19.480 winning strategy in the short term, even if it's 00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:21.380 incredibly dangerous for the long -term health 00:27:21.380 --> 00:27:24.359 of a society or democracy. Weakening error correction 00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:27.259 makes systems more brittle, more prone to catastrophic 00:27:27.259 --> 00:27:30.119 failure. So the final thought for you, the listener, 00:27:30.220 --> 00:27:32.680 is really to reflect on this. Information stories, 00:27:32.980 --> 00:27:35.259 data, algorithms isn't just background noise. 00:27:35.339 --> 00:27:37.640 It's actively shaping our past, our present, 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:40.019 and maybe a future that could be quite different, 00:27:40.160 --> 00:27:42.720 possibly even terrifying. And to consider your 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:45.160 own role within these networks. It's a lot to 00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:46.880 take in. What really stood out for you from our 00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:49.710 discussion today? For me, I think it's that core 00:27:49.710 --> 00:27:53.710 idea again. Information's power isn't just truth, 00:27:53.890 --> 00:27:57.230 but connection. How stories and shared beliefs 00:27:57.230 --> 00:28:00.490 literally build our realities. And then how AI 00:28:00.490 --> 00:28:03.549 complicates that by introducing non -human agents 00:28:03.549 --> 00:28:06.410 into the mix. It demands such a different level 00:28:06.410 --> 00:28:08.450 of critical thinking. That's a really good summary. 00:28:08.609 --> 00:28:11.509 And for me, it underscores the absolute necessity 00:28:11.509 --> 00:28:15.190 of those self -correcting mechanisms in science, 00:28:15.250 --> 00:28:17.339 in government, maybe even needing them. built 00:28:17.339 --> 00:28:20.480 into the AIs themselves somehow. That feels more 00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:23.000 critical than ever. Absolutely. Well, thank you 00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:25.119 so much for taking this deep dive with us today. 00:28:25.339 --> 00:28:27.559 Thank you. We would genuinely love to hear your 00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:29.400 thoughts. What was your favorite moment or the 00:28:29.400 --> 00:28:31.259 insight that surprised you the most from this 00:28:31.259 --> 00:28:33.160 discussion? Let us know down in the comments 00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:36.160 and please do like and share this. It really 00:28:36.160 --> 00:28:38.579 helps us keep exploring these complex and important 00:28:38.579 --> 00:28:40.799 ideas. We've got some more fascinating topics 00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:42.539 coming up in future deep dives. We certainly 00:28:42.539 --> 00:28:44.720 do. So stay tuned and thanks again for joining 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:44.960 us.