Hey, everyone. Welcome to the show. Great to
be here. So imagine this for a second. The very
foundations of American democracy may be slowly
being chipped away at, not by some external enemy,
but by this really well -funded, deeply connected
network working right here. That kind of chilling
idea is really central to Catherine Stewart's
book, Money, Lies, and God. It's quite something.
It really is. And this deep dive, it falls squarely
into investigative journalism, maybe some political
analysis, too. Right. Stewart's core argument
is that what some might see as an anti -democratic
movement in the U .S., it isn't just the spontaneous
thing like concerned people just popping up everywhere.
Not just grassroots. Exactly. She argues it's,
well, carefully built. It's leadership driven,
fueled by some serious money and a whole web
of interconnected organizations. OK. OK. Let's
unpack that a bit because Stewart kind of. Gives
us a framework, doesn't she, for understanding
how this works. She does. She breaks it down
into key players. Yeah, like the funders. These
are the wealthy donors, the money behind it all.
The fuel, basically. Then you've got the thinkers.
The ones shaping the ideology, pushing the core
ideas. Precisely. Crafting and spreading the
message. And then there are the power players.
Okay, who are they? These are the leaders. often
of Christian nationalist groups who are really
skilled at mobilizing what Stewart calls the
infantry, the infantry, the grassroots supporters,
the base. Yeah. And the book just meticulously
traces how this whole network pushes its influence,
you know, everywhere. Elections, education policy.
Lots of areas of American life. What really stands
out, I think, and Stuart does a great job here,
is how she connects the dots. You see these seemingly
separate events, different people. And she shows
how they're actually linked. It's quite revealing.
She lays bare the sort of underlying structure
of the whole thing. Totally. It shows how these
different parts work together, like a coordinated
strategy. You really see the financial side,
the organizational structure holding it all up.
Things that might otherwise just look like random
noise. Yeah, it takes away that randomness. Absolutely.
Now, what I personally found fascinating, and
this isn't really a spoiler, is just the sheer
scale of it all. The interconnectedness is, well,
it's kind of mind boggling. It can feel overwhelming.
It can. Though, credit where it's due, Stewart
makes this really complex picture pretty understandable.
the flip side what felt a bit unsettling again
no spoilers is realizing how many of these key
figures and especially where the money comes
from it's hidden a lot of it operates in the
shadows you know there's a real lack of transparency
which definitely makes you think about our political
processes and that's a key tension in the book
isn't it the difference between the public face
the rhetoric and the uh Hidden mechanics, the
funding, the organization. Yeah, exactly. And
Stewart is super clear. This isn't just like
popular opinion bubbling up. She really hammers
the point that it's leadership driven. Very much
so. It depends heavily on the money, the infrastructure
these groups build and the specific goals of,
you know, certain key people. So let's talk about
those categories again. The funders. Who does
she actually point to? Well, she named some prominent
figures, people like Betsy DeVos, the Wilkes
Brothers, Rebecca Mercer, Tim Dunn, the Cooks.
you know, familiar names, but also less visible
ones who funnel money through what's often called
dark money channels. Ah, dark money. That phrase
keeps popping up. What does that mean in this
context? It's basically this complex maze of
organizations, often set up as nonprofits, that
aren't legally required to say who their donors
are. So you can't follow the money easily? Not
at all. It makes it really tough to see where
the funding is coming from or just how much there
is. Okay, so that's the money. What about the
thinkers? The idea people. Stewart generally
places them under the banner of the new right,
although she adds a caveat that the label might
be a bit misleading, doesn't always fit traditional
conservatism. Interesting. So what's their main
idea, according to her? A big part of it, she
argues, is this belief in an all -powerful, woke
elite that supposedly controls everything, institutions,
culture. That sounds familiar, this sort of cancel
culture idea, but really amplified. Kind of,
yeah. Framed as this huge systemic threat. But
Stewart flips that script a bit. How so? She
suggests that these thinkers, the ones pushing
this narrative, are actually a powerful elite
themselves. They're embedded in think tanks,
advocacy groups. Funded by the same billionaires.
Heavily funded by them, yes. So she frames their
anti -woke campaign less as a defense against
some outside force and more like an, uh... intra
-elite struggle. A fight within the elite. Using
the funders' money and the grassroots supporters
almost as weapons in what she calls an intellectual
culture war. The key takeaway she offers is that
this anti -woke stuff often presented as coming
from the ground up. Might actually be a tool
used in these power struggles higher up. That's
her argument. That it's driven from within these
elite circles. Wow. Okay. That is another layer.
So money, ideas. than the power players, the
ones making it happen. Exactly. These are the
heads of organizations Stewart identifies as
Christian nationalists. Meaning groups that believe
Christian values should basically be U .S. law
and government. That's the core idea. Yeah. Stuart
mentions figures like, you know, celebrity preachers,
influential lobbyists, Ralph Reed, Tony Perkins,
her name she brings up. They hold a lot of personal
sway, mobilizing their followers. Ready, Courtney.
Oh, yeah. They meet at places like the Council
for National Policy, the National Prayer Breakfast.
These are hubs where we turn financial backing
and voter enthusiasm into actual political clout.
So they're the strategists connecting the money
and the energy to specific. You got it. Stewart
gives some really vivid examples. She talks about
attending events where people like Tim Barton
push this very specific version of American history.
What kind of version? Asserting the founders
were all devout Christians. The Constitution
comes straight from the Bible while painting
standard U .S. history courses as like. liberal
brainwashing. And Stewart's point is this isn't
just some random history talk. It's one piece
of a much larger coordinated effort to shape
how people see the world, how they understand
America. It's about building a whole alternative
reality almost. Absolutely. And she says this
gets reinforced by creating an information bubble.
OK. Like how? Right wing media. That's part of
it. Sure. But also. The internal networks within
the Christian nationalist movement itself. Think
about pastors who attend these big conferences.
They go back to their churches. And they have
direct access to millions of people every single
week. They can deliver a steady stream of political
messages. And there are groups specifically for
that, right? Like Faith Wins, Pastors for Trump,
getting religious leaders involved. Exactly.
Because for many in their target audience, pastors,
their church community. Those are the most trusted
sources. It creates this powerful echo chamber.
Makes sense. Very effective. Stewart also argues
they're trying to shift something fundamental,
like where political legitimacy comes from. Yeah,
away from the usual democratic stuff, elections,
courts, law enforcement. And towards what? Towards
what they see as higher authorities, a sort of
true spirit of the nation, often framed as God
-given, divinely ordained. So it allows a minority
group to feel like they have a right to rule
regardless of vote counts. That's the implication
Stewart draws, this belief in a kind of providential
right to govern. You know, when you hear someone
like Steve Bannon talking about building a governing
coalition for 100 years, that sounds like it
taps into that same kind of thinking. It certainly
seems to align with that belief in a predetermined,
almost divinely backed political future. Stewart
also touches on how the movement reacted to the
2020 election loss. Right, because if they saw
their candidate as chosen, losing must have...
caused some issues it did create some conflict
yeah though stewart observes that the period
of uncertainty for most in those circles was
pretty short -lived really yeah while maybe a
few initially said okay biden won let's pray
the vast majority very quickly jumped onto the
stolen election narrative any initial hesitation
as stewart puts it didn't stick around long so
okay Bringing this all together, what's the big
picture Stewart is painting for us, the listeners?
She's describing a very organized, extremely
well -funded, and ideologically committed movement
that, in her analysis, poses a real challenge
to democratic norms in the U .S. And she backs
it up. Oh, definitely. With a lot of evidence,
naming names, organizations, showing the money
trails, detailing the strategies they use to
gain influence, it's a really thorough look at
these forces at play. Yeah, for me, money, lies,
and God felt like, well, essential reading. If
you want to get a handle on the current political
moment, I'd give it a solid 4 .5 out of 5 stars.
High praise. Well, the research is just so meticulous.
It's really impressive. And seeing her connect
those dots, like we talked about, it really is
eye -opening. Now, sure, the sheer scale can
feel a bit daunting. It's a lot to take in. It
is. And the fact that so much operates out of
sight, that opacity. Yeah. That's genuinely concerning.
Yeah. But the book gives you such a valuable
framework for understanding these complex dynamics.
It definitely pushes you to think more critically
about the stories we hear in public life and
to wonder about the forces often hidden that
might be shaping them. Absolutely. So if this
deep dive into these forces shaping democracy
has got you thinking, definitely hit like and
subscribe. Please do. We've also put a link to
Catherine Stewart's Money, Lies and God on Amazon
down in the description if you want to read it
for yourself and explore more. And thanks for
joining us for this deep dive. We always love
hearing what part of the discussion stood out
to you. Yeah. What was the most surprising connection
for you or maybe the most revealing part of what
we talked about today? Let us know in the comments
below and please share this with anyone you think
might find this useful or interesting. And maybe
just leave you with this thought. Consider the
impact of this kind of hidden funding, these
organized networks, not just on who wins elections,
but on the actual fabric of society. What does
that make you wonder about transparency, about
influence in our democracy today?