WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.860 Hey, everyone. Welcome to the show. Great to 00:00:01.860 --> 00:00:05.639 be diving in again. So picture this. Two women, 00:00:05.839 --> 00:00:08.400 empresses really, living these incredibly grand 00:00:08.400 --> 00:00:11.839 lives, but under this constant microscope, everything 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:15.580 they did, watched. Elizabeth of Austria and Eugenie 00:00:15.580 --> 00:00:18.440 of France. Yeah, huge figures. And their stories, 00:00:18.519 --> 00:00:20.879 well, they're packed with dazzling highs, but 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:24.339 also some really crushing lows. It's quite something. 00:00:24.519 --> 00:00:26.480 Absolutely. And today we're getting into that 00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:29.670 through the lens of... biography in history specifically 00:00:29.670 --> 00:00:33.090 nancy goldstone's book the rebel empresses it 00:00:33.090 --> 00:00:35.909 was a really compelling read it is goldstone 00:00:35.909 --> 00:00:38.850 gives you this like amazing window into empress 00:00:38.850 --> 00:00:41.789 elizabeth cc you know and empress eugenie and 00:00:41.789 --> 00:00:43.770 the research is just so thorough you see these 00:00:43.770 --> 00:00:45.710 moments where their lives kind of intersect yeah 00:00:45.710 --> 00:00:47.429 and you understand the shared pressures they 00:00:47.429 --> 00:00:50.750 faced imperial life the public eye oh and the 00:00:50.750 --> 00:00:52.950 personal tragedies too Big ones. Definitely. 00:00:53.030 --> 00:00:55.490 What I really loved reading it was how Goldstone 00:00:55.490 --> 00:00:57.590 brings them to life. You get their strengths, 00:00:57.630 --> 00:00:59.469 sure, but also their vulnerabilities. It feels 00:00:59.469 --> 00:01:02.350 very human. Right. And it's not just personal 00:01:02.350 --> 00:01:04.709 stories in a vacuum. Yeah. She does a great job 00:01:04.709 --> 00:01:07.950 placing them within that whole sweep of European 00:01:07.950 --> 00:01:10.310 politics at the time. You see the bigger picture. 00:01:10.549 --> 00:01:12.769 Exactly. And another thing, the parallels between 00:01:12.769 --> 00:01:15.049 them. Yeah. You wouldn't necessarily expect it, 00:01:15.090 --> 00:01:17.349 right? Different backgrounds, different empires. 00:01:17.629 --> 00:01:20.569 But the challenges they faced, surprisingly similar 00:01:20.569 --> 00:01:23.629 sometimes. Yeah. The book really draws those 00:01:23.629 --> 00:01:25.810 connections out well. It gives you a unique angle 00:01:25.810 --> 00:01:29.230 on them. Now, one thing maybe, not a criticism 00:01:29.230 --> 00:01:31.870 exactly, but something to be aware of. Go on. 00:01:32.290 --> 00:01:35.310 Sometimes the amount of historical detail. Yeah. 00:01:35.450 --> 00:01:37.870 It can feel a little dense, you know? Okay. Yeah, 00:01:37.950 --> 00:01:39.670 I can see that. Goldstone definitely did her 00:01:39.670 --> 00:01:41.609 homework. It's packed. But like you said, it 00:01:41.609 --> 00:01:43.909 does enrich the story in the end. It gives you 00:01:43.909 --> 00:01:45.909 that full context. Totally agree. So overall 00:01:45.909 --> 00:01:48.189 rating? I'd give it a solid four out of five 00:01:48.189 --> 00:01:50.549 stars. Really strong. Yeah, me too. Definitely 00:01:50.549 --> 00:01:53.269 a four. Okay, so let's dive in a bit. The book 00:01:53.269 --> 00:01:55.290 kicks off with this really specific scene, doesn't 00:01:55.290 --> 00:02:00.189 it? August 1867, Salzburg Station. Ah, yes, the 00:02:00.189 --> 00:02:03.489 big meeting. Elizabeth of Austria, Eugenie of 00:02:03.489 --> 00:02:06.790 France, wives of these two major emperors meeting. 00:02:07.030 --> 00:02:09.449 And what's immediately striking is how everyone, 00:02:09.729 --> 00:02:12.289 the public, the press, they basically treated 00:02:12.289 --> 00:02:15.409 it like, well, like a beauty pageant. It's incredible, 00:02:15.509 --> 00:02:17.610 isn't it? There were serious political talks 00:02:17.610 --> 00:02:20.490 happening, huge European powers meeting, but... 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:23.860 The main fascination. Who looked better? It just 00:02:23.860 --> 00:02:25.719 shows you the kind of scrutiny they were under. 00:02:25.800 --> 00:02:29.020 So intense and often so superficial. They even 00:02:29.020 --> 00:02:31.840 had a life -size statue of CeCe there. In the 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:34.520 waiting room. Decked out with flowers. Talk about 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:36.560 home field advantage, right. And the press covers, 00:02:36.659 --> 00:02:38.319 like you said, all about appearance. The Daily 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:41.080 Telegraph guy. Oh yeah, noting CeCe was taller, 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:45.240 slender. And that rather mean comment about Eugenie 00:02:45.240 --> 00:02:48.879 looking stout of late. Ouch. It's quite something. 00:02:49.360 --> 00:02:51.379 Reading that kind of personal commentary passed 00:02:51.379 --> 00:02:54.199 off as news, and they were annoyed Eugenie wore 00:02:54.199 --> 00:02:56.719 a veil at first, couldn't immediately judge her 00:02:56.719 --> 00:03:00.039 looks. But quick to praise Elizabeth's spirited, 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:02.439 refined countenance, you just feel the pressure 00:03:02.439 --> 00:03:04.259 quicker they lived in, always having to look 00:03:04.259 --> 00:03:07.000 perfect. Exactly, like their main job was just 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.099 to be decorative. But the book, thankfully, goes 00:03:10.099 --> 00:03:12.500 way beyond that. It looks at where they came 00:03:12.500 --> 00:03:15.060 from, how they ended up in these positions. Let's 00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:17.800 start with Elizabeth, with Cece. Her father, 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:22.860 Duke Max in Bavaria. He sounds, well, unconventional. 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:25.460 Oh, completely. Goldstone paints him as almost 00:03:25.460 --> 00:03:28.120 operatic, doesn't she? Handsome, loves sports, 00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:31.860 music. A real character. Yeah, and desperate 00:03:31.860 --> 00:03:34.419 to escape the eternal uniformity of an everyday 00:03:34.419 --> 00:03:37.319 life, as he put it. That quote says it all. Really? 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:39.460 Yeah. And him taking off for Egypt for eight 00:03:39.460 --> 00:03:42.159 months, just weeks after Sisi was born with a 00:03:42.159 --> 00:03:44.360 huge entourage. Yeah. It gives you a sense straight 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:46.379 away that her childhood probably wasn't your 00:03:46.379 --> 00:03:49.199 standard stuffy royal upbringing. And it wasn't. 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:51.639 Her mother, Ludovica, had a very different path. 00:03:51.800 --> 00:03:54.000 Her own marriage prospects were sort of sacrificed 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:56.000 for family politics, weren't they? Right. She 00:03:56.000 --> 00:03:57.780 was meant for the crown prince of Portugal, but 00:03:57.780 --> 00:04:00.099 her mother thought Lisbon was too far, the prince 00:04:00.099 --> 00:04:02.819 unsuitable. So she ends up married to her cousin, 00:04:02.919 --> 00:04:05.139 Duke Max. A man she was apparently indifferent 00:04:05.139 --> 00:04:08.719 to. And she even lost her title. Princess of 00:04:08.719 --> 00:04:11.159 Bavaria. You can imagine there might have been 00:04:11.159 --> 00:04:13.539 some resentment there. Sounds incredibly frustrating. 00:04:13.780 --> 00:04:15.860 But despite their own issues, it seems they didn't 00:04:15.860 --> 00:04:18.079 let it poison the kids' childhoods. Apparently 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:21.220 not. Goldstone says Cece had a really happy, 00:04:21.339 --> 00:04:24.850 almost idyllic childhood. Big family, lots of 00:04:24.850 --> 00:04:27.709 life that probably shaped her quite a bit. Definitely. 00:04:27.750 --> 00:04:31.750 And Duke Max, despite his travels, took his procreation 00:04:31.750 --> 00:04:34.970 duties seriously. Seems like it. A baby every 00:04:34.970 --> 00:04:37.430 couple of years. Cece had loads of siblings by 00:04:37.430 --> 00:04:40.269 the time she was seven. That close, lively family 00:04:40.269 --> 00:04:42.730 must have fostered her independence. Okay, now 00:04:42.730 --> 00:04:45.509 let's switch to Eugenie. Her father, Don Cipriano, 00:04:45.610 --> 00:04:48.449 Count of Taba, also quite a history there, lost 00:04:48.449 --> 00:04:50.850 an arm at Trafalgar. Yeah. and got tangled up 00:04:50.850 --> 00:04:53.350 in all that Spanish political turmoil. Power 00:04:53.350 --> 00:04:55.910 struggles between King Carlos and his son Ferdinand 00:04:55.910 --> 00:04:59.329 ended up arrested. So Eugenie's early life had 00:04:59.329 --> 00:05:01.889 this undercurrent of instability right from the 00:05:01.889 --> 00:05:03.910 start. Absolutely. And it sounds like her mother, 00:05:04.050 --> 00:05:06.689 Maria Manuela, was the real powerhouse navigating 00:05:06.689 --> 00:05:09.529 all that. Appealing directly to Don Cipriano's 00:05:09.529 --> 00:05:11.589 brother to get him out of prison, that takes 00:05:11.589 --> 00:05:14.509 guts. She seems incredibly resourceful, moved 00:05:14.509 --> 00:05:17.500 the family strategically. inherited money, ended 00:05:17.500 --> 00:05:20.399 up in Paris. Her social skills and connections 00:05:20.399 --> 00:05:22.720 were clearly key. And brought her into contact 00:05:22.720 --> 00:05:24.860 with people like Prosper Merrimay, the writer. 00:05:25.079 --> 00:05:27.699 Right, who was apparently totally charmed by 00:05:27.699 --> 00:05:30.519 her and became a family friend, even played games 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:32.699 with young Eugenie. Little details like that. 00:05:32.779 --> 00:05:34.939 They really help you connect, don't they? But 00:05:34.939 --> 00:05:37.540 for both women, becoming empresses, that was 00:05:37.540 --> 00:05:39.959 the huge turning point. And maybe neither was 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:42.779 fully prepared. Sisi's marriage to Franz Joseph 00:05:42.779 --> 00:05:45.339 sounds like a whirlwind. Especially since she 00:05:45.339 --> 00:05:46.860 wasn't the one he was supposed to be marrying. 00:05:47.060 --> 00:05:49.319 Right. It was meant to be her older sister, Helene. 00:05:49.579 --> 00:05:52.639 Nene. Ludovica brought them both, hoping the 00:05:52.639 --> 00:05:54.939 emperor would choose Helene. And Helene seemed, 00:05:55.060 --> 00:05:58.279 on paper, the more obvious choice. Older, poised, 00:05:58.379 --> 00:06:02.079 more royal. Even Franz Joseph's tough mother, 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:05.360 Archduchess Sophia, approved of her conversation 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:07.620 skills. Looked like it was all set. But nope. 00:06:07.879 --> 00:06:11.319 Franz Joseph sees Elizabeth, and bam. instantly 00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:14.100 smitten. One day, one carriage ride. And he just 00:06:14.100 --> 00:06:17.149 announces, I'm marrying Elizabeth. Imagine the 00:06:17.149 --> 00:06:20.129 shock. Totally. And Cece's reaction is so telling, 00:06:20.170 --> 00:06:22.170 isn't it? When her mother told her, she apparently 00:06:22.170 --> 00:06:24.470 said something like, but how can he think of 00:06:24.470 --> 00:06:26.649 me? I'm so insignificant. It really shows her 00:06:26.649 --> 00:06:28.850 youth, maybe a lack of self -awareness about 00:06:28.850 --> 00:06:31.029 the impression she made. Definitely. And while 00:06:31.029 --> 00:06:33.170 the wedding news made headlines, Goldstone points 00:06:33.170 --> 00:06:35.089 out it wasn't actually the biggest news out of 00:06:35.089 --> 00:06:37.389 Austria then. No, that was the emperor's upcoming 00:06:37.389 --> 00:06:40.689 meeting with the czar. Politics always simmering 00:06:40.689 --> 00:06:43.370 in the background. Always. So while friends, 00:06:43.449 --> 00:06:46.040 Joseph is falling in love. There are these huge 00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:49.939 international stakes. And the prep for Sisi becoming 00:06:49.939 --> 00:06:53.860 empress sounds intense. Especially with Archduchess 00:06:53.860 --> 00:06:56.360 Sophia overseeing things. She knew Elizabeth 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.759 wasn't trained for the role. Not at all. Wedding 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:02.379 date set fast, but then it was all about rigorous 00:07:02.379 --> 00:07:06.040 training, this enormous trousseau. Even Elizabeth's 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:08.220 teeth needed attention, apparently. The pressure 00:07:08.220 --> 00:07:10.139 to fit the Habsburg mold must have been immense. 00:07:10.339 --> 00:07:13.459 Yellow teeth, wow. Right. Now, Eugenie's path 00:07:13.459 --> 00:07:16.610 to empress. Quite different, not a prearranged 00:07:16.610 --> 00:07:19.509 royal match. No, she married Louis -Napoleon 00:07:19.509 --> 00:07:22.769 Bonaparte, who became Emperor Napoleon III after, 00:07:22.970 --> 00:07:25.550 well, a lot of political maneuvering. And her 00:07:25.550 --> 00:07:28.149 family's move to Paris, her mother's connections, 00:07:28.350 --> 00:07:31.050 that put her right in the center of French high 00:07:31.050 --> 00:07:34.029 society. She became a real figure, admired for 00:07:34.029 --> 00:07:36.709 her beauty, fashion, spirit. But the courtship 00:07:36.709 --> 00:07:38.750 with Louis Napoleon wasn't straightforward, was 00:07:38.750 --> 00:07:41.110 it? He had a bit of a reputation. A bit. Yeah, 00:07:41.170 --> 00:07:43.189 no one ladies, man. There was even that rumor 00:07:43.189 --> 00:07:45.470 he was initially after Eugenie just to get closer 00:07:45.470 --> 00:07:47.949 to her sister. Which led to that awful incident. 00:07:48.170 --> 00:07:50.129 Eugenie thinking he liked her, finding out it 00:07:50.129 --> 00:07:53.089 was her sister, and then... Taking poison. In 00:07:53.089 --> 00:07:55.970 despair. It's a shocking story. Yeah. Shows the 00:07:55.970 --> 00:07:58.370 intense emotions even before she became empress. 00:07:58.490 --> 00:08:01.740 A really stark reminder of vulnerability. But 00:08:01.740 --> 00:08:04.220 eventually he did propose. They married in 1853. 00:08:04.379 --> 00:08:07.279 Big turning point for France and for her. And 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:10.000 notice the timing again. Just like Sisi's wedding 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:12.920 happened amid political tension, Eugenie's marriage 00:08:12.920 --> 00:08:15.860 came as Louis -Napoleon was cementing his power 00:08:15.860 --> 00:08:18.500 as the new emperor. Some saw the marriage as 00:08:18.500 --> 00:08:20.879 strategic, right? To soften his image, maybe? 00:08:21.220 --> 00:08:24.480 Goldstone suggests that, yeah, show a more personable 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:27.120 side. And those early years of their reign seemed 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:30.769 full of optimism. Big plans for France. Railway 00:08:30.769 --> 00:08:32.870 expansion. The Exposition Universelle planning. 00:08:33.049 --> 00:08:35.629 Trying to rival London's great exhibition. And 00:08:35.629 --> 00:08:38.929 the huge modernization of Paris under Baron Haussmann 00:08:38.929 --> 00:08:42.309 starting then too. New boulevards, sewers, markets. 00:08:42.370 --> 00:08:45.070 A real sense of progress. Establishing France 00:08:45.070 --> 00:08:48.110 as a modern power. But Eugénie's early years 00:08:48.110 --> 00:08:51.289 as empress. Also marked by personal tragedy, 00:08:51.490 --> 00:08:53.929 that miscarriage. Yes, relatively early on, a 00:08:53.929 --> 00:08:56.389 huge emotional blow, adding to the pressure she 00:08:56.389 --> 00:08:58.389 was already under. That letter she wrote to her 00:08:58.389 --> 00:09:01.779 sister, Paka. It's heartbreaking. You feel her 00:09:01.779 --> 00:09:04.360 longing for an heir, but also her fear, thinking 00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:06.740 about Louis VII, Marie Antoinette. It reveals 00:09:06.740 --> 00:09:09.279 those deep anxieties beneath the surface of imperial 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:11.720 life. It's just fascinating seeing these parallels 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:14.220 and contrasts, both thrust into these demanding 00:09:14.220 --> 00:09:17.700 roles, complex politics, public scrutiny, and 00:09:17.700 --> 00:09:20.120 dealing with personal joy and sorrow. And for 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:22.279 both, their mothers -in -law played such a huge 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:25.039 role, especially Archdiocese Sophia for Assisi. 00:09:25.059 --> 00:09:27.980 What a presence. Formidable is the word. Sophia 00:09:27.980 --> 00:09:31.340 had basically engineered Franz Joseph's succession, 00:09:31.580 --> 00:09:34.279 and she had very firm ideas about how things 00:09:34.279 --> 00:09:36.639 should be done, how an empress should act. And 00:09:36.639 --> 00:09:39.379 she clearly had a huge influence over Franz Joseph, 00:09:39.580 --> 00:09:41.679 and definitely over the young Elizabeth initially. 00:09:41.899 --> 00:09:44.299 You can just feel the tension brewing. Yeah, 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:47.059 the book mentions Cece hugging cousins at her 00:09:47.059 --> 00:09:49.860 wedding, and Sophia immediately shuts it down. 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:52.500 Breach of protocol. Even the wedding night sounds 00:09:52.500 --> 00:09:54.779 incredibly stiff and controlled, orchestrated 00:09:54.779 --> 00:09:57.570 by Sophia. It paints this picture of a super 00:09:57.570 --> 00:10:00.990 rigid court. And Cece, with her freer Bavarian 00:10:00.990 --> 00:10:03.590 background, she must have chafed against it constantly. 00:10:03.889 --> 00:10:05.789 That honeymoon at Luxembourg sounds anything 00:10:05.789 --> 00:10:09.159 but romantic. Constantly watched, judged by Sophia. 00:10:09.419 --> 00:10:11.879 Even minor things becoming affairs of state. 00:10:12.059 --> 00:10:14.320 She ended up going on long rides with Franz Joseph 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:17.620 just to escape, apparently. Or hiding in her 00:10:17.620 --> 00:10:19.419 rooms with her parrots on rainy days, writing 00:10:19.419 --> 00:10:22.360 letters home, so isolated. You really feel for 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:24.879 her. Now, Eugenie, she didn't have quite the 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:26.899 same domineering mother -in -law figure. No, 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:28.440 but she had other challenges as an outsider. 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:30.779 Dealing with snobbery from some of the established 00:10:30.779 --> 00:10:33.259 Bonaparte family, right, because she wasn't royalty 00:10:33.259 --> 00:10:35.299 by birth. Exactly. That was a key difference. 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:39.250 Right. But the pressure to produce an heir, that 00:10:39.250 --> 00:10:41.950 was intense for both of them. And for Eugenie, 00:10:41.990 --> 00:10:44.509 that early miscarriage just made it worse. It 00:10:44.509 --> 00:10:46.850 wasn't until after that trip to London and getting 00:10:46.850 --> 00:10:49.330 advice from Queen Victoria herself. That she 00:10:49.330 --> 00:10:52.049 finally conceived successfully. The birth of 00:10:52.049 --> 00:10:55.509 the Prince Imperial in 1856. Huge relief and 00:10:55.509 --> 00:10:57.330 celebration in France. Secured the succession. 00:10:57.950 --> 00:11:01.169 Massive moment for them. And similarly. The pressure 00:11:01.169 --> 00:11:04.429 on Sisi for an heir in Austria was immense. And 00:11:04.429 --> 00:11:07.669 the dynamic with Sofia over the children, that 00:11:07.669 --> 00:11:10.330 became a real battleground. Oh, absolutely. When 00:11:10.330 --> 00:11:12.250 her first daughters, Sophie and Casella, were 00:11:12.250 --> 00:11:14.330 born, Sofia just took over their upbringing. 00:11:14.919 --> 00:11:17.620 Believed Cece wasn't capable? Imagine. Elizabeth 00:11:17.620 --> 00:11:20.340 must have been furious, resentful, wanting a 00:11:20.340 --> 00:11:23.100 say in her own kids' lives. Which led to conflict. 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:25.179 Like when Elizabeth insisted on taking little 00:11:25.179 --> 00:11:27.779 Sophie to Italy for her health, against Sophia's 00:11:27.779 --> 00:11:30.360 wishes. That was a bold move. Pushing back directly. 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:33.440 And crucially, Franz Joseph actually sided with 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:36.159 Elizabeth on that one. Which was huge. A real 00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:38.500 turning point. Showing Elizabeth she could sometimes 00:11:38.500 --> 00:11:41.519 challenge Sophia's authority. A small victory. 00:11:42.120 --> 00:11:45.019 But significant. So both women in their different 00:11:45.019 --> 00:11:47.440 ways found strategies to navigate these constraints, 00:11:47.679 --> 00:11:50.220 sometimes conforming, sometimes rebelling subtly 00:11:50.220 --> 00:11:52.899 or not so subtly. And they both grew into influential 00:11:52.899 --> 00:11:55.259 figures beyond just being wives and mothers. 00:11:55.480 --> 00:11:58.299 But their lives remain tangled up with political 00:11:58.299 --> 00:12:01.759 upheaval and sadly, more tragedy. Yeah. That 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:04.580 rise of nationalism across Europe, shifting alliances. 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:07.879 It made things increasingly volatile for both 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:10.980 empires. Definitely. Napoleon III wanted to reassert 00:12:10.980 --> 00:12:13.379 French power, which led to involvement in the 00:12:13.379 --> 00:12:15.600 Crimean War, the war in Italy. Which brought 00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:18.379 glory, yes, but also cost a lot, financially 00:12:18.379 --> 00:12:21.460 and in lives. And it stirred up tensions with 00:12:21.460 --> 00:12:24.000 other powers. And that Italian war directly hit 00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:27.000 Austria too. Franz Josef lost Lombardy and Venetia. 00:12:27.100 --> 00:12:30.179 Big defeat, fueling internal dissent in the Habsburg 00:12:30.179 --> 00:12:32.720 Empire. And it's fascinating how both women got 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:34.879 drawn into these politics, sometimes deliberately, 00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:38.120 sometimes not. Eugenie had strong opinions. And 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:41.279 tried to influence Napoleon III, though maybe 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:44.299 not always subtly. That incident where she tried 00:12:44.299 --> 00:12:47.000 to suggest Archduke Maximilian for the Spanish 00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:49.980 throne. Huh. Yeah, apparently baffling the Austrian 00:12:49.980 --> 00:12:52.659 ambassador. A bit clumsy, maybe. But it showed 00:12:52.659 --> 00:12:55.350 she was engaged. Elizabeth, though, found her 00:12:55.350 --> 00:12:57.830 cause more with Hungary, didn't she? Yes, she 00:12:57.830 --> 00:13:00.049 played a really key role in the compromise that 00:13:00.049 --> 00:13:02.809 created the dual Austro -Hungarian empire. Her 00:13:02.809 --> 00:13:05.389 empathy for Hungarians, learning the language, 00:13:05.590 --> 00:13:08.309 it made her hugely popular there. After years 00:13:08.309 --> 00:13:11.029 of tension, that trip she and friends Joseph 00:13:11.029 --> 00:13:13.750 took to Pest. They were greeted with such enthusiasm, 00:13:13.970 --> 00:13:16.490 her presence was seen as crucial in healing that 00:13:16.490 --> 00:13:19.750 rift. It really is remarkable. Both women, initially 00:13:19.750 --> 00:13:22.669 valued for beauty and airs, carved out real influence. 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:25.919 But that thread of tragedy, it keeps running 00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:29.039 through. Maximilian in Mexico is just heartbreaking. 00:13:29.460 --> 00:13:31.860 France, Joseph's brother, accepting that doomed 00:13:31.860 --> 00:13:34.539 title, emperor of Mexico. And the French intervention, 00:13:34.840 --> 00:13:37.639 pushed by Napoleon III and Eugenie, is a total 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:40.059 disaster. Maximilian ended up captured and executed. 00:13:40.340 --> 00:13:42.779 A devastating blow for both the French and Austrian 00:13:42.779 --> 00:13:45.639 imperial families shows the danger of these ambitions. 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:48.440 And for Eugenie, who championed the Mexican venture, 00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:51.220 it must have been personally shattering. You 00:13:51.220 --> 00:13:54.100 read about Charlotte's letters, Maximilian's 00:13:54.100 --> 00:13:58.019 wife going from hopeful to just despair. That 00:13:58.019 --> 00:14:00.980 failure in Mexico was just one challenge. Then 00:14:00.980 --> 00:14:03.879 came the rise of Prussia under Bismarck, a huge 00:14:03.879 --> 00:14:06.320 threat to both Austria and France. Leading to 00:14:06.320 --> 00:14:08.159 the Austro -Prussian War and then the big one, 00:14:08.200 --> 00:14:09.940 the Franco -Prussian War. Which was catastrophic 00:14:09.940 --> 00:14:12.639 for France. The end of the Second Empire, exile 00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:15.279 for Napoleon III and Eugenie. It happened so 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:17.820 fast. Yeah, Bismarck's manipulation of that Ems 00:14:17.820 --> 00:14:21.919 telegram, masterful. In a dark way. And Eugenie 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:24.240 acting as regent while Napoleon III is at the 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.460 front. She was basically ignored by her own government. 00:14:26.659 --> 00:14:28.419 Yeah. And then the French army just collapsed. 00:14:28.620 --> 00:14:31.320 Napoleon III captured it sedan. The news hitting 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:34.019 Paris. Revolt, the Third Republic proclaimed. 00:14:34.379 --> 00:14:36.740 Eugenie had to flee the Tuileries Palace. That 00:14:36.740 --> 00:14:39.419 scene Goldstone describes. Escaping with just 00:14:39.419 --> 00:14:41.779 one lady in waiting. Recognized by a kid in the 00:14:41.779 --> 00:14:44.299 street. Bundled into a carriage. The end of an 00:14:44.299 --> 00:14:47.259 era. Just like that. So dramatic. And Elizabeth. 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:50.379 Her own huge personal tragedy came later with 00:14:50.379 --> 00:14:53.340 Crown Prince Rudolf. Her only son. His suicide 00:14:53.340 --> 00:14:56.279 at Meierling. The grief must have been unbearable. 00:14:56.659 --> 00:14:58.980 Compounded by the public scrutiny, the hostility 00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:01.539 she faced in Austria afterwards. And that official 00:15:01.539 --> 00:15:04.879 verdict of temporary derangement. Yeah. Echoing 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:07.399 the rumors around King Ludwig II's suicide earlier. 00:15:07.860 --> 00:15:10.080 Haunting her with this fear she'd pass on some 00:15:10.080 --> 00:15:13.500 insanity. Her isolation then sounds profound. 00:15:13.899 --> 00:15:16.379 Both women lost their sons. Unimaginable pain. 00:15:16.799 --> 00:15:18.799 Eugenie's son, the Prince Imperial, died years 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:20.860 later too, fighting for the British in South 00:15:20.860 --> 00:15:23.679 Africa. Tragic echoes. But despite everything, 00:15:23.820 --> 00:15:25.899 the fall of empires, the personal losses, both 00:15:25.899 --> 00:15:28.379 women lived long lives afterwards. Eugenie in 00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:30.960 exile in England, still a respected figure in 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:33.840 royal circles. And Elizabeth becoming more withdrawn. 00:15:34.460 --> 00:15:36.940 Eccentric maybe, but still traveling, still fascinating 00:15:36.940 --> 00:15:39.320 the public right up until her assassination in 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:42.019 Geneva in 1898. A shocking end. It really is. 00:15:42.120 --> 00:15:44.559 A poignant finish to a life of such contrasts. 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:47.460 Goldstone mentions how even late in life, Eugenie 00:15:47.460 --> 00:15:50.100 would visit a memorial to Elizabeth. A silent 00:15:50.100 --> 00:15:53.659 nod to that connection they shared. Wow. just 00:15:53.659 --> 00:15:57.039 incredible lives. So if this glimpse has intrigued 00:15:57.039 --> 00:16:00.179 you, you really should pick up Nancy Goldstone's 00:16:00.179 --> 00:16:03.159 The Rebel Empresses to get the full rich story. 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:05.500 Absolutely. We've put an Amazon link down in 00:16:05.500 --> 00:16:07.500 the description for you. Make it easy. And hey, 00:16:07.639 --> 00:16:09.940 if you enjoyed this deep dive, please do give 00:16:09.940 --> 00:16:12.200 us a like and definitely subscribe so you don't 00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:14.480 miss our future explorations. We really appreciate 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:17.000 it. We do. Thank you so much for joining us today 00:16:17.000 --> 00:16:20.399 as we just scratched the surface of this amazing 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:23.129 historical account. We genuinely love to hear 00:16:23.129 --> 00:16:25.169 what stood out most to you about Elizabeth and 00:16:25.169 --> 00:16:27.909 Eugenie. Was there a particular moment or maybe 00:16:27.909 --> 00:16:30.129 you have questions? Yeah. Drop your thoughts, 00:16:30.169 --> 00:16:32.629 your favorite bits, any questions in the comments 00:16:32.629 --> 00:16:34.669 below. We love reading them and hearing what 00:16:34.669 --> 00:16:36.590 you think. Your engagement really makes this 00:16:36.590 --> 00:16:39.409 worthwhile. So until next time. Until next time. 00:16:39.409 --> 00:16:40.029 Thanks for listening.