Hey, everyone. Welcome to the show. Great to
be here. Imagine the terror of a knock on the
door, knowing it could mean losing absolutely
everything you own. Everything. Just because
you fell maybe a little behind on rent. For so
many families in America, this isn't hypothetical.
It's real. It's a monthly fear. It really is.
And today's deep dive. It actually comes as a
special request from our friend Celestial Circle
Dance over on YouTube. Ah, fantastic. Shout out
to Celestial Circle Dance. Yeah. And this one,
it tackles a really powerful, often kind of unseen
issue in our society. It definitely does. We're
stepping into, well, the world of social science,
I guess, and investigative reporting. Definitely
investigative reporting. Yeah. With Matthew Desmond's
really groundbreaking work, Evicted. Poverty
and Profit in the American City. A truly eye
-opening book. Absolutely. So if this kind of
in -depth exploration, the kind that really makes
you think about the world, if that sparks your
curiosity, please do hit that like button. And
subscribe. It helps us keep doing these deep
dives. It really does. Now, Evicted. We've put
a link in the description below. It isn't just
data or statistics. No, not at all. It's incredibly
immersive. It follows the lives of eight different
families in Milwaukee. Right. Families grappling
with eviction. And it also looks at two landlords
who are navigating the complexities of renting
to the poor. It's raw, very unflinching. It really
shows how eviction isn't just like something
that happens because you're poor. Exactly. It
argues eviction is a major driver of poverty.
Not just a consequence. That's the key shift
in perspective. Yeah. We're going to unpack some
of the really surprising, sometimes deeply moving
stories from the book. And show those connections,
right, between housing, poverty, opportunity,
things maybe people haven't quite connected in
the same way before. That's the goal. Our mission
today, really, is to pull out the crucial insights
from Evicted. Insights that might just reshape
how you understand poverty in America. Moving
beyond maybe the common assumptions. Exactly.
And really revealing the powerful role housing
plays. Yeah. Especially for the most vulnerable
people. Yeah. What's so compelling about Evicted
right from the start is how it just throws you
into the daily struggle. Instantly. You take
Arlene, for instance. She's a mom, low -income
neighborhood in Milwaukee. Her total welfare
income, $628 a month. Okay. Now, the cheapest
apartment she could find, a two -bedroom that
would actually take her and her kids. $550 a
month. Wow. So, wait. $550 from $628. That leaves...
$78. $78. For everything else. For everything
else. Food, clothes, bus fare, diapers, and,
critically, utilities. Heat, electricity. That's
not a margin. That's a cliff edge. It just shows
how incredibly thin things are. Razor thin. And
it's not just the rent figure itself, as the
book points out. Right. You mentioned utilities.
Those costs have gone up like crazy too, haven't
they? Dramatically. Since like the year 2000,
fuel and utility costs jumped over 50%. 50%.
So you can just picture Arlene constantly trying
to juggle, pay the rent, or keep the lights on.
Especially with those Milwaukee winters coming.
It's this constant high stress balancing act.
Yeah. A tightrope walk where one slip means,
well. Potentially disaster. Exactly. And it forces
these impossible choices. Pay rent, risk getting
the heat shut off, or pay the utility bill and
fall behind on rent, getting closer to eviction.
There's no winning move there. None. The book
even talks about people doing desperate things
just to get basic utilities back on. Which really
highlights how fundamental shelter and basic
services are. You can't have stability without
them. And how tied they are to this whole issue
of poverty. Which leads us to Desmond's central
argument, doesn't it? It really does. We talk
a lot about poverty in terms of jobs, right?
Or welfare programs, maybe incarceration rates.
All important factors, absolutely. For sure.
But Desmond says, hang on, we've kind of overlooked
something huge and foundational. Housing. He
argues quite strongly that we haven't really
grasped how housing instability, especially eviction,
actively creates poverty. It's not just a symptom.
That's such a crucial distinction he makes, yeah.
He's not saying jobs don't matter. Not at all.
But he's asking us to reexamine where we put
our focus. He points out, look, not everyone
in poor communities deals with the justice system
or even social services directly. But pretty
much all of them have a landlord. That relationship,
tenant and landlord, that's universal in that
context. Exactly. And he uses that relationship
as a critical lens, a way to understand how poverty
gets sustained, how it's perpetuated day to day.
And Evicted just brings that to life with these
incredibly personal stories. You see families
like Doreen's just constantly moving, forced
into worse and worse places because they can't
keep up with rent. And the instability, it just
ripples through everything, doesn't it? Everything.
Kid schooling gets messed up. Holding down a
job becomes nearly impossible. Health suffers,
mental and physical. It's a cascade effect. It
really is. And then there's the eviction record
itself. Oh, yeah. That's a huge piece of it.
The book shows how that record can be like a
brand. Oh, so? Well, landlords use these databases,
right, to screen tenants. And just having an
eviction filed against you, even if you weren't
ultimately kicked out. Even just the filing.
Often, yes. It makes it incredibly difficult
to find decent housing later. Karen, one of the
landlords in the book, she puts it bluntly. What
does she say? Something like, if they have an
eviction, what makes you think they're going
to pay you? Wow. So it creates this cycle. You
get evicted, maybe unfairly, maybe not. And suddenly
you're locked out of the market. Or pushed into
even worse options. It makes it so much harder
to get back on your feet. So the system meant
to resolve disputes actually ends up trapping
people. That's a key insight, definitely. It
can inadvertently perpetuate instability. It
feels almost designed to keep people down sometimes.
And to be fair, Desmond shows the landlord's
side too, right? Shereen and Tobin. Yes, he does.
He's careful to show their perspective. They're
operating in the same tough market, trying to
make a living. But their decisions... even if
they make business sense to them. Have these
massive, life -altering consequences for their
tenants. Yeah. What's really insightful is how
he portrays that whole landlord -tenant dynamic.
Yeah. It's often so fraught. You see Sharina,
for example. She's dealing with real issues.
Late rent, property damage, tenants leaving unexpectedly.
Sure, those are real business challenges. Absolutely.
And sometimes she tries to help, shows empathy.
But at the end of the day, the economic pressure,
the legal system... It often pushes her towards
eviction. He also points out the tight margins
they operate on sometimes in these low income
areas. Yeah. A few missed payments can hurt the
landlord's bottom line significantly, too. It's
tough on both sides in different ways. And then
you have Tobin, the mobile home park owner. He
seems different. Much more direct, aggressive
even sometimes in his rent collection methods.
Yeah. The book describes him relentlessly chasing
tenants for rent, even calling their jobs. It
paints a really stark picture of the power imbalance.
Totally unequal. The tenants are often just desperate.
Very few options. Little power when facing eviction
or bad living conditions. And the legal system.
Desmond's portrayal of eviction court is just.
Sobering. Oh, so? Well, he describes these scenes.
Landlords usually have lawyers looking professional.
Okay. Tenants often show up alone, confused,
overwhelmed by the legal jargon, the process.
Right. And the court often just focuses on one
thing. Was the rent paid? Yes or no? Not why
it wasn't paid or the conditions they were living
in. Often no. There's this moment in the book
a court commissioner says to a tenant trying
to explain she had no electricity for a month.
What does he say? He basically dismisses it.
Yeah. That isn't necessarily a fact we need to
work out today. Oof. Chilling. That just sums
it up, doesn't it? Yeah. The system focusing
on the transaction, ignoring the human suffering.
Exactly. It shows how the system can be blind
to the reality on the ground. And the consequences
of that eviction when it happens. Mm -hmm. The
book details them meticulously. They're catastrophic.
Absolutely. You don't just lose your home. You
often lose your possession. Your job because
of the disruption. Your community ties, your
kids' school stability. Everything gets thrown
into chaos. And it leads to more hardship, higher
rates of homelessness, terrible impacts on health.
Physical and mental health. Yeah. It's a downward
spiral. So connecting this back to the bigger
picture, Desmond did a lot of research beyond
these stories, right? The Milwaukee Area Renter
Study. He did. And his findings were stark. Eviction
rates in Milwaukee were incredibly high. And
was Milwaukee unique? No, that's the point. He
found the rates were comparable to other big
cities. This isn't just a Milwaukee problem.
It's a national crisis. Pretty much. And the
consequences he documents, the instability, the
deprivation, they fuel that cycle of poverty.
They make it incredibly hard for families to
ever get ahead. It paints a really, really sobering
picture. Evicted forces you to see that having
a stable home isn't just about personal responsibility.
No, it's deeply tangled up with systemic issues,
policy failures. Like the lack of affordable
housing? Definitely. And inadequate legal protections
for tenants, the way the whole system is set
up. It all plays a part in this crisis. Which
brings up that fundamental question you mentioned
earlier. Yeah, what does it mean to live in a
society that promises opportunity, well -being?
For everyone. Desmond connected right back to
the Declaration of Independence, doesn't he?
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
He does. He argues that a stable home is essential
for all of those things. How can you pursue happiness
if you're constantly worried about losing your
home? Exactly. Without that foundation, achieving
security, opportunity, well -being, it becomes
almost impossible. Okay, so if we boil it down,
what are the main takeaways here? What does Desmond
want us to understand? I think the biggest thing
is if we're serious about tackling poverty, we
have to rethink housing fundamentally. It can't
just be about income or jobs. We need to ensure
people have safe, stable, genuinely affordable
places to live. Right. And the book does touch
on potential solutions, doesn't it? Policy ideas.
Yeah, like expanding housing voucher programs,
making them work better. He talks about making
them available to everyone who qualifies, which
isn't the case now, and preventing landlords
from just jacking up rents because someone has
a voucher. That makes sense. And also providing
legal help for tenants in housing court. Yeah,
a universal right to counsel like you have in
criminal cases, because right now that power
imbalance in court is huge. Landlords have lawyers.
Tenants usually don't. Exactly. And he points
out other developed countries often have stronger
housing policies. These aren't like radical,
untested ideas. They're things that could actually
make a difference. Potentially, yes. So ultimately,
evicted just leaves you with this really profound,
maybe uncomfortable understanding. Uncomfortable
is a good word for it. Just how absolutely central
housing is and how eviction acts like this major
barrier keeping people trapped. It really pushes
you past simplistic ideas about, you know, people
just needing to try harder. Yeah, it forces you
to look at the bigger structures, the policies,
the societal choices that let this happen. And
that brings us to the ethical side, right? If
housing is so basic, so essential. What's our
responsibility as a society? Do we have a moral
obligation to make sure everyone has a roof over
their head? The stories in the book, they're
so human, so heartbreaking. They really force
you to wrestle with that. It's hard not to. Seeing
families just constantly churn through this cycle
of displacement and hardship. Yeah. So let's
leave our listeners with this thought. Consider
this. If a stable home is so fundamental to life,
liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, like the
founders declared, what does it say about our
society today when eviction is just routine?
When it happens so often, casting families onto
this path of deeper hardship. That's a powerful
question. The stories, the insights from Evicted,
they really challenge us to think hard about
that, what it means for our communities. And
maybe ask, what responsibilities do we have individually,
collectively, to actually address this systemic
issue? Something to definitely think about.