WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.120 Hey, everyone, and welcome to the show. You know 00:00:02.120 --> 00:00:04.379 how we always dive into these pivotal political 00:00:04.379 --> 00:00:06.919 moments? Right into the thick of it. Yeah. Well, 00:00:06.960 --> 00:00:11.060 this time, imagine like you're in the room with 00:00:11.060 --> 00:00:12.880 some of the most powerful people in the Democratic 00:00:12.880 --> 00:00:16.539 Party, right? Seasoned strategists, those who've 00:00:16.539 --> 00:00:19.800 seen it all. The inner circle. Exactly. And suddenly 00:00:19.800 --> 00:00:21.679 they're faced with this chilling possibility. 00:00:21.739 --> 00:00:23.920 It was like, what if their chosen leader just 00:00:23.920 --> 00:00:27.339 isn't viable anymore? It's that feeling, that 00:00:27.339 --> 00:00:29.899 raw uncertainty that we're exploring in this 00:00:29.899 --> 00:00:32.460 deep dive. We'll be looking closely at the events 00:00:32.460 --> 00:00:34.700 right after a certain debate and using Jonathan 00:00:34.700 --> 00:00:37.240 Allen's book, Fight, Battle for the White House, 00:00:37.380 --> 00:00:40.079 to really understand the shockwaves that rippled 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:41.899 through the party. It's like being a fly on the 00:00:41.899 --> 00:00:45.119 wall, witnessing these raw, unfiltered reactions 00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:48.380 as the ground shifts beneath their feet. Precisely. 00:00:48.460 --> 00:00:50.679 It's about understanding not just the political 00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:53.439 maneuvering, but also the human drama that unfolds 00:00:53.439 --> 00:00:55.549 in these high stakes situations. Absolutely. 00:00:55.729 --> 00:00:58.049 And for me, what really stood out was this sense 00:00:58.049 --> 00:01:00.570 of vulnerability that you just don't often see 00:01:00.570 --> 00:01:02.570 from these figures. Like they're usually so polished, 00:01:02.729 --> 00:01:04.950 you know. But here they're grappling with these 00:01:04.950 --> 00:01:07.829 huge doubts, these anxieties about the future. 00:01:08.030 --> 00:01:11.650 You see the intricate web of loyalties and self 00:01:11.650 --> 00:01:13.950 -preservation within the party. It's fascinating. 00:01:14.310 --> 00:01:17.010 Yeah. And while I found those aspects super insightful, 00:01:17.250 --> 00:01:19.590 I have to admit the looming sense of crisis, 00:01:19.870 --> 00:01:22.090 all those unanswered questions hanging in the 00:01:22.090 --> 00:01:24.370 air, it was a bit unsettling. It definitely makes. 00:01:24.430 --> 00:01:26.989 you think? Overall, for this really intense look 00:01:26.989 --> 00:01:30.450 behind the scenes, we're giving Fight, Battle 00:01:30.450 --> 00:01:32.629 for the White House, four out of five stars. 00:01:32.790 --> 00:01:36.049 A solid read. So let's jump right in. The book 00:01:36.049 --> 00:01:37.950 kind of throws us headfirst into the aftermath 00:01:37.950 --> 00:01:40.709 of, well, that debate. What were the initial 00:01:40.709 --> 00:01:42.650 reactions within the Democratic Party? Like, 00:01:42.670 --> 00:01:44.810 what was the vibe? Well, to put it bluntly, it 00:01:44.810 --> 00:01:47.769 was pure panic. Almost everyone was in a state 00:01:47.769 --> 00:01:51.390 of shock and disbelief. Take Senator Chris Coons 00:01:51.390 --> 00:01:53.790 from Delaware. You know, a close confidant of 00:01:53.790 --> 00:01:56.510 Biden's. Yeah, I remember it. Right. So he's 00:01:56.510 --> 00:01:59.609 at a campaign watch party and his phone practically 00:01:59.609 --> 00:02:03.950 explodes with messages from other senators, colleagues, 00:02:04.170 --> 00:02:06.010 you name it. They're not even full sentences, 00:02:06.109 --> 00:02:09.729 just stark assessments like disaster. Terrible. 00:02:09.889 --> 00:02:12.189 Well, no sugarcoating there. None whatsoever. 00:02:12.509 --> 00:02:14.669 And then it's followed by these desperate questions 00:02:14.669 --> 00:02:16.789 like what the hell is going on? They're looking 00:02:16.789 --> 00:02:19.150 to him, someone close to Biden, for answers, 00:02:19.310 --> 00:02:22.300 for reassurance, anything. So it was more than 00:02:22.300 --> 00:02:24.639 just people being polite. They were genuinely 00:02:24.639 --> 00:02:27.159 worried. Oh, absolutely. This was a visceral 00:02:27.159 --> 00:02:29.780 reaction, a real sense of crisis in the making. 00:02:29.979 --> 00:02:31.840 It sounds like the party was immediately thrown 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:34.080 into disarray. And this wasn't just behind closed 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:36.280 doors, right? There were some pretty public reactions, 00:02:36.340 --> 00:02:38.379 too, weren't there? Oh, yeah. Some very prominent 00:02:38.379 --> 00:02:40.860 figures didn't hold back. Congressman Jim Clyburn 00:02:40.860 --> 00:02:43.039 from South Carolina, for example, a really influential 00:02:43.039 --> 00:02:45.120 voice within the Democratic Party, especially 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.740 in South Carolina. His endorsements are highly 00:02:47.740 --> 00:02:50.340 sought after. Well, he watched the debate and 00:02:50.340 --> 00:02:52.159 his immediate assessment, which he shared with 00:02:52.159 --> 00:02:55.199 close friends and top Biden advisers, was that 00:02:55.199 --> 00:02:58.639 Biden's performance was disqualifying. And he 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:00.900 didn't just say it once. He repeated it several 00:03:00.900 --> 00:03:03.240 times. Disqualifying. That's pretty strong. It 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:06.000 is. Then you have former Congressman Tim Ryan, 00:03:06.139 --> 00:03:08.159 who didn't even wait for the dust to settle. 00:03:08.900 --> 00:03:11.199 Moments after the debate ended, he published 00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:13.800 an op ed basically picturing a Democratic ticket 00:03:13.800 --> 00:03:16.460 without Biden, suggesting that Vice President 00:03:16.460 --> 00:03:19.080 Pamela Harris should step up. Wow, that's a bold 00:03:19.080 --> 00:03:21.659 move, calling for such a drastic change so quickly. 00:03:21.819 --> 00:03:24.819 Yeah, a very public and swift call for a shift 00:03:24.819 --> 00:03:27.460 in leadership. So you've got panic at the grassroots 00:03:27.460 --> 00:03:30.740 level and open criticism from key figures. What 00:03:30.740 --> 00:03:32.860 about the financial side of things? How did major 00:03:32.860 --> 00:03:35.509 donors react to this whole situation? It was 00:03:35.509 --> 00:03:37.629 like a faucet being turned off. One longtime 00:03:37.629 --> 00:03:40.270 Biden fundraiser described getting bombarded 00:03:40.270 --> 00:03:42.310 with calls and texts even in the middle of the 00:03:42.310 --> 00:03:44.849 night. Imagine that, being woken up by people 00:03:44.849 --> 00:03:47.210 basically pleading for Biden to drop out of the 00:03:47.210 --> 00:03:51.580 race ASAP. It was. And this wasn't just the usual 00:03:51.580 --> 00:03:54.520 low level worry about Biden's age that had been 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:56.919 simmering for a while. It was like all those 00:03:56.919 --> 00:04:00.439 concerns just exploded into this urgent push 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:02.819 for him to reconsider. Full blown freak out. 00:04:02.879 --> 00:04:05.379 Pretty much across the country, big time donors 00:04:05.379 --> 00:04:07.939 slammed on the brakes. They started canceling 00:04:07.939 --> 00:04:11.020 events, pulling back contributions. As one Biden 00:04:11.020 --> 00:04:13.879 aide put it, even before the debate, these fundraising 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:17.569 events weren't going well. But afterwards. Forget 00:04:17.569 --> 00:04:19.290 about it. Hosts were basically saying, nope, 00:04:19.370 --> 00:04:21.129 not doing it. They didn't want to be associated 00:04:21.129 --> 00:04:24.569 with a sinking ship. Exactly. Even the most loyal 00:04:24.569 --> 00:04:27.230 donors wanted to see some sign that the campaign 00:04:27.230 --> 00:04:29.750 could recover before they'd commit any more money. 00:04:29.910 --> 00:04:32.129 It's crazy how quickly that financial support 00:04:32.129 --> 00:04:34.509 can disappear. It shows you how fragile political 00:04:34.509 --> 00:04:37.310 financing is and how quickly confidence can evaporate, 00:04:37.310 --> 00:04:39.189 especially when there are already doubts lingering 00:04:39.189 --> 00:04:42.490 about a candidate. So the campaign's lifeblood 00:04:42.490 --> 00:04:45.310 was drying up. What was the mood like at Biden's 00:04:45.310 --> 00:04:47.910 headquarters in Wilmington during all this? Oh, 00:04:47.970 --> 00:04:51.029 it was grim. You could practically feel the weight 00:04:51.029 --> 00:04:54.149 of the situation in the air. Aides described 00:04:54.149 --> 00:04:57.050 it as somber, almost like a funeral. They knew 00:04:57.050 --> 00:05:00.189 they'd just witnessed a debacle, as one of them 00:05:00.189 --> 00:05:02.930 put it. A senior advisor said something like, 00:05:02.949 --> 00:05:05.509 we knew the coverage would be tough. An understatement 00:05:05.509 --> 00:05:07.970 of the year. Right. It wasn't about strategizing 00:05:07.970 --> 00:05:10.250 a comeback. It was more like a team just trying 00:05:10.250 --> 00:05:12.870 to process what had happened. They were reportedly 00:05:12.870 --> 00:05:16.430 even just grazing on leftovers for meals. Not 00:05:16.430 --> 00:05:19.069 exactly the picture of a campaign brimming with 00:05:19.069 --> 00:05:22.790 energy and optimism. Definitely not. Meanwhile, 00:05:22.870 --> 00:05:24.990 Vice President Harris was watching the debate 00:05:24.990 --> 00:05:28.290 from a hotel conference room in Los Angeles literally 00:05:28.290 --> 00:05:31.310 a world away. Yeah. What was her experience like? 00:05:31.430 --> 00:05:33.670 Well, she watched in silence. Interestingly, 00:05:33.870 --> 00:05:36.110 for security reasons, her phone couldn't receive 00:05:36.110 --> 00:05:38.370 text messages. Probably a blessing in disguise 00:05:38.370 --> 00:05:41.069 at that moment. I'd say so. But, you know, she 00:05:41.069 --> 00:05:42.910 didn't need a bunch of texts to understand what 00:05:42.910 --> 00:05:44.970 was happening. And the book reminds us that she 00:05:44.970 --> 00:05:47.089 had pulled off a pretty big blindsiding moment 00:05:47.089 --> 00:05:49.629 herself against Biden during a primary debate 00:05:49.629 --> 00:05:51.750 back in 2019. Oh, yeah, I'd forgotten about that. 00:05:51.930 --> 00:05:54.629 So she knew firsthand how a debate performance, 00:05:55.110 --> 00:05:57.389 good or bad, could completely change the game. 00:05:57.529 --> 00:05:59.269 She had a unique perspective on the whole thing, 00:05:59.310 --> 00:06:01.430 having been on both sides of that kind of... 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:04.720 Exactly. Now, before we delve further into the 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:07.579 aftermath, let's rewind a bit. The book also 00:06:07.579 --> 00:06:09.699 talks about those discussions that happened before 00:06:09.699 --> 00:06:12.480 the debate when Biden was deciding whether to 00:06:12.480 --> 00:06:15.259 even run for reelection. What were some of the 00:06:15.259 --> 00:06:17.860 key factors that led to that initial decision? 00:06:18.199 --> 00:06:20.480 Yeah, it wasn't a simple yes from everyone, was 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:23.329 it? No, not at all. Some advisors, like Bruce 00:06:23.329 --> 00:06:26.329 Reed, were all about giving Biden as much time 00:06:26.329 --> 00:06:29.029 as possible to prepare to get into campaign mode. 00:06:29.170 --> 00:06:31.790 But others, like Jeff Science, thought it was 00:06:31.790 --> 00:06:34.529 more important to present a united front of support 00:06:34.529 --> 00:06:36.610 from the staff. Different priorities. Right. 00:06:36.689 --> 00:06:39.410 Then you had influential figures like Anita Dunn 00:06:39.410 --> 00:06:41.949 and Ron Klain, who argued that all the legal 00:06:41.949 --> 00:06:43.990 trouble Trump was facing was actually helping 00:06:43.990 --> 00:06:46.629 him, keeping him in the news and kind of overshadowing 00:06:46.629 --> 00:06:49.089 Biden. Interesting point. They thought a debate 00:06:49.089 --> 00:06:51.519 could remind voters. why they'd voted Trump out 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:53.319 in the first place. Bring back those memories. 00:06:53.740 --> 00:06:56.259 Exactly. But then there's this, let's say, more 00:06:56.259 --> 00:06:58.620 pragmatic perspective offered by Mike Donilon. 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:01.199 He apparently told allies something along the 00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:04.060 lines of, nobody walks away from this. No one 00:07:04.060 --> 00:07:06.879 walks away from the house, the plane, the helicopter. 00:07:07.420 --> 00:07:10.079 So there's this allure of power, the perks of 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:12.459 the presidency. It's hard to let go of that. 00:07:12.620 --> 00:07:15.839 It's definitely a factor. So despite those internal 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:18.379 debates and reservations, they decided to go 00:07:18.379 --> 00:07:21.079 for it. And then, well, we all know how that 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:23.759 debate went. What were those first frantic steps 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:26.439 they took to try and contain the damage? It was 00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:29.399 full on damage control mode. Clean up in Isle 00:07:29.399 --> 00:07:32.100 Biden, so to speak. Had to be done. Mike Donilon, 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:35.060 for example, he was tasked with basically rewriting 00:07:35.060 --> 00:07:37.279 Biden's speech for a rally scheduled for the 00:07:37.279 --> 00:07:40.139 Friday after the debate. The initial idea was 00:07:40.139 --> 00:07:42.579 to have Biden acknowledge his perceived weaknesses 00:07:42.579 --> 00:07:45.120 head on, you know, saying things like, I don't 00:07:45.120 --> 00:07:47.100 walk as easily as I used to. I don't speak as 00:07:47.100 --> 00:07:49.100 smoothly as I used to. I don't debate as well 00:07:49.100 --> 00:07:52.160 as I used to. But I know what I do know. I know 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:54.300 how to tell the truth. Almost like owning it. 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:57.660 Right. But even some of Biden's closest advisers 00:07:57.660 --> 00:08:00.500 felt that this approach was, well, a bit too 00:08:00.500 --> 00:08:03.000 simplistic. Like it didn't really grasp the depth 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:05.079 of what people had just witnessed. It sounded 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:07.899 like an excuse rather than an honest reckoning. 00:08:08.019 --> 00:08:11.579 Exactly. And meanwhile, campaign manager Jen 00:08:11.579 --> 00:08:13.980 O'Malley Dillon, she was holding these, let's 00:08:13.980 --> 00:08:16.879 just say, tense Zoom calls with senior staff. 00:08:17.060 --> 00:08:19.160 Oh, I bet. And she basically admitted that she. 00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:22.000 didn't have a clear plan, and wasn't even sure 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:23.639 if Biden would stay in the race until November. 00:08:23.879 --> 00:08:25.740 That's pretty shocking for a campaign manager 00:08:25.740 --> 00:08:28.680 to admit. It was. But her main message to the 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:31.920 team was, stay united, focus on getting Biden 00:08:31.920 --> 00:08:34.080 across the finish line, essentially telling them 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:36.299 to put their doubts aside. Easier said than done, 00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:39.019 I imagine. You think? This actually backfired 00:08:39.019 --> 00:08:40.960 with some key donors. They felt like she was 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:43.340 dismissing their concerns, brushing them off 00:08:43.340 --> 00:08:46.000 as disloyalty. One donor even said the meeting 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:48.539 just made them more pissed off. Adding fuel to 00:08:48.539 --> 00:08:50.700 the fire. Yeah, it's like the initial response 00:08:50.700 --> 00:08:53.259 to the debate actually made things worse, created 00:08:53.259 --> 00:08:56.120 new cracks in the party. So not only was the 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:59.159 debate a disaster, but the initial attempts to 00:08:59.159 --> 00:09:01.779 deal with it just made the situation even more 00:09:01.779 --> 00:09:04.600 precarious. Exactly. And that feeling of uncertainty, 00:09:04.860 --> 00:09:07.360 it wasn't just confined to the campaign. And 00:09:07.360 --> 00:09:09.840 it spread to Capitol Hill, too. Oh, yeah. The 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:12.720 fallout must have been huge there. House Minority 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:15.399 Leader Hakeem Jeffries, for instance, who had 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:17.539 his eyes on becoming speaker if the Democrats 00:09:17.539 --> 00:09:20.200 won back the House in November, he was in a tough 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:23.120 spot. He started leaning heavily on people like 00:09:23.120 --> 00:09:26.100 Jim Clyburn and Nancy Pelosi, trying to gauge 00:09:26.100 --> 00:09:28.320 the mood of the party. Trying to figure out where 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:31.899 everyone stood. Right. And Pelosi, while publicly 00:09:31.899 --> 00:09:34.320 staying neutral, was privately telling friends 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:37.269 that she thought Biden should step down. But, 00:09:37.289 --> 00:09:39.529 you know, she's a political pro. She understood 00:09:39.529 --> 00:09:42.009 that pushing for this openly could cause a massive 00:09:42.009 --> 00:09:44.309 internal rift. It could have completely backfired, 00:09:44.389 --> 00:09:47.009 especially for Jeffries. Exactly. So her silence, 00:09:47.190 --> 00:09:49.909 her carefully calculated neutrality probably 00:09:49.909 --> 00:09:52.789 spoke volumes to those who knew her well. It's 00:09:52.789 --> 00:09:55.250 fascinating how those unspoken messages can carry 00:09:55.250 --> 00:09:58.149 so much weight in politics. The book also mentions 00:09:58.149 --> 00:10:00.669 former President Obama's perspective. What was 00:10:00.669 --> 00:10:03.190 his take on all of this? Well, apparently Obama 00:10:03.190 --> 00:10:05.909 felt that Biden simply wasn't the best candidate 00:10:05.909 --> 00:10:08.070 moving forward. And while he seemed to favor 00:10:08.070 --> 00:10:10.929 Gretchen Whitmer, the governor of Michigan, he 00:10:10.929 --> 00:10:13.970 also felt that an open contest for the nomination 00:10:13.970 --> 00:10:17.750 might be the most viable way to potentially replace 00:10:17.750 --> 00:10:21.120 Biden on the ticket. So even Obama had his doubts. 00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:25.019 It seems so. And the book suggests that his influence 00:10:25.019 --> 00:10:28.139 over Biden had diminished over the years, especially 00:10:28.139 --> 00:10:30.779 after Biden felt Obama hadn't fully supported 00:10:30.779 --> 00:10:33.120 his own presidential ambitions in the past. There 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:35.220 was some distance between them. Yeah. And that 00:10:35.220 --> 00:10:37.720 may have influenced how Obama viewed the situation 00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:40.669 and what he thought was best for the party. It's 00:10:40.669 --> 00:10:42.509 incredible to think that even someone like Obama, 00:10:42.750 --> 00:10:45.509 a giant in the Democratic Party, was reportedly 00:10:45.509 --> 00:10:48.909 questioning Biden's ability to continue after 00:10:48.909 --> 00:10:51.929 this one debate. It really highlights the magnitude 00:10:51.929 --> 00:10:54.289 of the crisis they were facing. It does. It's 00:10:54.289 --> 00:10:56.409 a stark reminder that even the most seemingly 00:10:56.409 --> 00:10:59.789 unshakable political figures are vulnerable to 00:10:59.789 --> 00:11:02.110 these moments of uncertainty and doubt. And it 00:11:02.110 --> 00:11:04.110 makes you wonder, what would have happened if 00:11:04.110 --> 00:11:06.929 things had gone differently? Exactly. The book 00:11:06.929 --> 00:11:09.659 leaves us with that lingering question. a sense 00:11:09.659 --> 00:11:13.240 of what could have been. It's a reminder that 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:16.279 in politics, as in life, things can change very 00:11:16.279 --> 00:11:19.159 quickly and the most carefully laid plans can 00:11:19.159 --> 00:11:21.879 be upended in an instant. That's the nature of 00:11:21.879 --> 00:11:24.899 the game. Well, if this deep dive into the inner 00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:27.759 workings of political strategy and those raw 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:30.759 human moments of doubt and uncertainty has captivated 00:11:30.759 --> 00:11:33.100 you, make sure to hit that like button and subscribe 00:11:33.100 --> 00:11:35.720 to our channel. We really appreciate you joining 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:37.860 us today. And don't forget, you can find the 00:11:37.860 --> 00:11:40.799 link to Jonathan Allen's fight battle for the 00:11:40.799 --> 00:11:44.539 White House on Amazon. It's a great read, even 00:11:44.539 --> 00:11:46.779 if politics isn't usually your thing. We'd love 00:11:46.779 --> 00:11:48.340 to hear your thoughts. What surprised you the 00:11:48.340 --> 00:11:50.679 most about this whole situation? Let us know 00:11:50.679 --> 00:11:52.419 in the comments below. We always love reading 00:11:52.419 --> 00:11:54.299 your reactions and having these discussions with 00:11:54.299 --> 00:11:56.179 you. And if you found this deep dive insightful, 00:11:56.559 --> 00:11:58.919 please share it with your friends and family. 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:01.419 Spread the knowledge. Thanks for watching, everyone. 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:03.440 And we'll see you in the next deep dive. See 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:03.679 you then.