Hey everyone, welcome to the show. Ever get that
feeling, like what you see isn't the whole picture,
like there's, I don't know, forces at work that
we're not fully aware of? Yeah, that feeling
you're describing, like the official story, whatever
it is, just doesn't add up. There's something
more going on, something deeper, maybe even a
little scary. Exactly. And that feeling that
intuition is exactly what we're diving into today.
We're talking about a real life thriller, exploring
power, money, intelligence, all that hidden stuff.
It's about those hidden systems and the people
pulling the levers, shaping things behind the
scenes. Right. If you're into that kind of exploration,
like understanding how the world really works,
then this is the place to be. Hit that like and
subscribe button if you want more deep dives
like this. It's not about conspiracy theories,
you know. It's about taking a hard look at complex
systems and the people operating within them.
So today we're going deep on Whitney Webb's One
Nation Under Blackmail, Volume 2. Link's down
in the description if you want to check it out.
And, you know, there's been a lot of sensational
headlines about some of the people in this book.
But we're going beyond that. We're digging into
the deeper currents of influence and potential
corruption that Webb lays out. It's about unpacking
how power is really used in ways that most people
never even see. OK, so one of the core ideas
in the book, and it comes from a quote by Gerald
Nadler, is pretty stark. Government by blackmail
is incompatible with democracy. Whoa. What does
that even mean, though, in this context? Webb's
argument is that blackmail, especially how it's
evolved with technology, plays a huge, maybe
even the biggest role in manipulating powerful
people and shaping world events. It's the evolution
of blackmail that's key here. We're not just
talking compromising photos anymore. It's the
massive amount of personal data that's being
collected. It creates a whole new level of leverage
and control. All right, so think of mass surveillance
as like a giant arsenal of potential blackmail
material. And it's a perfect segue to Jeffrey
Epstein. You know, he became infamous for sex
trafficking, obviously. Horrible stuff. But Webb
argues that the mainstream narrative kind of
steered everyone away from Epstein's other connections.
Specifically... His ties to intelligence agencies,
the CIA and Israeli intelligence, to be exact.
The focus stayed very narrowly on the such trafficking,
which, you know, is obviously important. But
it also kind of acted like blinders, blocking
us from seeing this whole other dimension of
Epstein's network. And this is where things get
really unsettling. Webb points out that Epstein
visited the Clinton White House 17 times between
1993 and 1995. 17. That's a lot. Many of those
meetings were with this guy named Mark Middleton,
who, as the book details, died under some pretty
suspicious circumstances in 2022. And even more
interesting, Middleton himself was involved in
foreign espionage activities, which Congress
investigated in the 90s related to some shady
fundraising for Clinton's reelection campaign.
And thinking about the context of that time,
there were lots of concerns about foreign influence
in U .S. politics. And Middleton was right in
the middle of some of that. Here's the really
messed up part, though. And the book stresses
how this was totally underreported. Epstein supposedly
brought young women with him to some of these
White House meetings. Think about that. A massive
scandal, potentially, right at the center of
the Clinton administration. And it barely got
any attention. Why do you think that is? Yeah,
it makes you wonder, right, why didn't these
allegations get investigated more thoroughly
by the media, by officials, anyone? I mean, think
about the implications. National security, the
integrity of the presidency is huge. So let's
shift gears a bit and talk about Epstein's earlier
life. Smart guy, clearly, skipped a couple grades,
graduated high school early, went to Cooper Union
in NYU, even studied at NYU's current institute
for a while. Never finished his degree, though.
But it's his leaving Bear Stearns in 81 that's
really weird. Conflicting stories everywhere.
Yeah, there's the official story, the one Epstein
put out about leaving to start his own business.
Yeah, that's what he said. But inside Bear Stearns,
people were talking about a technical infringement.
Later on, Stephen Hoffenberg, his close associate,
claimed Epstein was actually caught doing illegal
stuff. Even a former executive from Bear Stearns
said Epstein was asked to leave because of very
serious stuff, supposedly related to something
shady with an airline ticket on an expense report.
But other people deny that. So which is it? The
fact that you have all these different stories
from the same place, it kind of tells you something,
right? Oh, absolutely. All these inconsistencies.
It means there's more to the story, something
Bear Stearns probably wanted to keep under wraps.
In the time right after he left Bear Stearns,
before he officially registered as a money manager
in 88, the book describes it as murky, which
directly contradicts his later claims that he
was managing billions for billionaires starting
in 81. The timeline just doesn't match up. So
what was he doing during those years? That murky
period is a total black box. And those kinds
of gaps in someone's public record, especially
someone like Epstein, that's where you find the
secret activities, the shady connections, all
that. If he wasn't managing billions legitimately,
then where was the money coming from? Who was
he working with? This leads to some really explosive
stuff that Webb brings up. Hoffenberg claims
that in the early 80s, Epstein was trained in
arms trafficking and money laundering. by Adnan
Khashoggi and Sir Douglas Lease, no less. And
this was specifically for Israeli interests,
supposedly to help their intelligence operations
in the UK. Hoffenberg's claims are definitely
attention grabbing. And considering his close
financial ties to Epstein later on, they deserve
a closer look. even if they're not proven. And
Adnan Khashoggi, man, that guy was a legend in
the world of arms dealing, known for his wealth
and influence for sure. Oh, yeah. And Khashoggi's
biographer even wrote about how he operated.
It was all about extravagance. Girls, food, cash,
whatever his powerful clients wanted, he provided.
It was a world of favors, you know, and potential
compromises. And Sir Douglas Leis, the book mentions
his connections to intelligence circles, too,
though maybe more on the periphery. It just adds
another layer to this whole training scenario.
OK, so it's not just Hoffenberg saying this.
Victor Ostrowski, he was an officer in the Israeli
Mossad. He also indicated that Epstein had ties
to Israeli intelligence. Hoffenberg even claimed
Ghislaine Maxwell was the one who introduced
them. And then there's Zev Shalev, an investigative
reporter. He cited an anonymous source, someone
high up, who backed up Ben -Nash's claims that
Epstein was an Israeli intelligence asset. It's
pretty wild that you have all these different
accounts all pointing in the same direction.
It's a pattern, isn't it? This theme of Epstein
being connected to intelligence, it keeps popping
up. And even though none of it's been definitively
proven, that consistency is hard to ignore. Right.
And then there's Epstein's trip to Israel in
2008. Super strange timing. It was right in the
middle of his legal troubles in the U .S. just
before his sentencing. He's dated the Tel Aviv
Hilton, said he was there for Passover. But he
also met with Israeli research scientists and
even toured Israeli military bases. You don't
just wander onto an Israeli military base, you
know. That trip. especially during such a sensitive
time for him legally, really suggests that he
had some pre -existing connections with Israeli
security folks. Important connections, too. Totally.
And then there's his friendship with Ehud Barak.
You know, the former prime minister and defense
minister of Israel just has another layer of
intrigue to the whole thing. Barak and Epstein,
yeah, their relationship was well known. And
given Barak's history in Israeli intelligence,
you have to wonder what their connection really
was all about. And let's not forget about that
foreign passport found in Epstein's safe after
his arrest. It was from another country with
a different name issued back in the 80s. Prosecutors
used that to argue he was a flight risk, especially
with all the cash and diamonds they found in
there, too. And it turned out he had multiple
passports. What does that tell you about the
kind of life this guy was living? Having multiple
passports with fake identities? Yeah, that's
not your average tourist. It tells me he was
prepared to travel secretly to operate outside
the normal system. Secrecy was a big part of
his life. The book also gets into how blurry
the lines are between organized crime and intelligence,
highlighting guys like Robert Keith Gray. His
career supposedly involved intelligence work,
A &D, sexual blackmail schemes. Plus, he was
connected to the Bank of Credit and Commerce
International, or BCCI. It happens a lot, actually.
The worlds of crime and intelligence get all
mixed up. People with ties to both, they're powerful
and they're hard to track. Right. And then there's
Max Fisher. Powerful guy. He supposedly had connections
to both U .S. and Israeli intelligence. Just
shows you how tangled this web is. Fisher's career.
Yeah, it touched so many sensitive areas, finance,
politics, intelligence, the whole nine yards.
So 1987 was a big year, according to Webb's book.
Epstein got involved in a financial venture with
Stephen Hoffenberg and the Galitis family, big
names in real estate. And wouldn't you know it,
that's also the same year he supposedly met Donald
Trump, maybe through Hoffenberg, who once famously
said, Donald's crowd was my crowd, all these
circles intersecting. Not surprising, really,
when you think about the New York elite, how
everyone's connected. the timing and the nature
of their relationships, it's definitely something
to pay attention to. Oh, and speaking of Trump
and people with interesting pasts, the book mentions
how in 88 he bought the Plaza Hotel, which has
a history of sexual blackmail parties involving
minors, no less. And those parties were linked
to Roy Cohn, Trump's lawyer, mentor, friend.
Another layer to the story. The Roy Cohn and
those activities. Yeah, there's been reporting
on that. And Kuhn's relationship with Trump.
It's definitely another thread in this web. Even
Epstein's real estate stuff in D .C. is suspicious.
He kept leasing the State Department building
until 97. And from 96 on, he sublet it to this
high profile lawyer named Ivan Fisher. The guy
was known for representing some major drug traffickers,
like guys connecting to the French connection
and the pizza connection. Why would Epstein keep
that lease and then sublet it to someone like
that? It's weird, isn't it? Makes you wonder
what Epstein was doing with that property and
what his connection was with that lawyer. And
then there's the Leslie Wexner mystery. He's
a retail magnate, hugely successful. But he had
this really close relationship with Epstein,
who on paper wasn't in his league at all. Wexner
gave Epstein power of attorney, bankrolled his
lavish lifestyle, the whole thing. What could
possibly explain that level of trust and support?
Wexner's a smart guy. Why take a chance on someone
like Epstein? Yeah, it's one of the biggest head
scratchers in the whole Epstein saga. What did
Wexner see in him and why give him so much power?
Webb throws out a few possibilities. Maybe it
was Epstein's alleged connections to arms dealers.
Those guys with intelligence ties? Or maybe it
was his financial skills. Those are kind of vague.
The book also points out that Epstein came into
Wexner's life right after Arthur Shapiro was
murdered. That case had possible organized crime
links. So maybe Wexner saw Epstein's shady connections
as a form of protection or a way to access certain
circles. The timing eye is interesting. If Wexner
was feeling vulnerable or wanted to get into
certain circles, Epstein's reputation might have
seemed like an asset. Risky, but an asset. Okay,
and here's another layer to the Wexner thing.
His foundation, the Wexner Foundation, it focuses
on developing Jewish leaders in North America
and Israel. Lots of their alumni end up in finance,
government, even intelligence agencies. And Wexner's
tight with AIPAC, which has its own alleged ties
to Israeli intelligence. So this whole network
of connections, it makes you wonder about the
overlaps in interests and influence. Yeah, it
creates a really complex web. And Epstein's right
there in the middle of it. Definitely worth a
closer look. Oh, get this. Epstein helped channel
huge donations to Harvard through Wexner. That's
how Rosofsky Hall got its name, named after one
of Epstein's buddies at the university. The Wexner
Foundation also funded the Harvard Kennedy School's
Center for Public Leadership, which was run by
David Gergen for a while. Gergen, of course,
was an advisor to multiple presidents, and he
has his own web of connections. All of that puts
Epstein and his people right in the heart of
academia and the political establishment. The
book even mentions this group called the Mega
Group. It was a low -key philanthropy thing,
supposedly with members like Wexner and Charles
Bronfman. Both those guys have been linked to
organized crime and... Eat or intelligence, at
least in some allegations. And some people even
claim that mega was a code word for a CIA information
exchange. A group like that with those kinds
of connections definitely raises questions about
their goals and what they are up to. So let's
talk about Ghislaine Maxwell for a minute. The
book touches on her upbringing, her relationship
with her dad, Robert Maxwell. He was a media
mogul. With lots of his own ties to intelligence,
some of it pretty controversial. Webb even suggests
that Robert Maxwell might have seen his daughter's
sexuality as a tool for influence. Yeah, Robert
Maxwell was a complicated guy. His background
definitely cast a shadow over his kids' lives
and who they associated with. Right. The book
also mentions Ghislaine's long -term relationship
with Andrea Sacagna and how she started her own
exclusive club, the Kit Kat Club. Interesting
name, right? And remember Robert Keith Gray,
the guy we talked about earlier? The book says
he might have played a role in some of Robert
Maxwell's big plans. Understanding Ghislaine's
early life in that world of power and intelligence
connections, it's really important if you want
to understand her later choices and who she hung
out with. Let's circle back to Epstein's 17 visits
to the Clinton White House starting in 93. Webb
connects those visits not only to shady fundraising,
but also to possible foreign espionage. He even
brings up Vince Foster's death and how his office
was searched without authorization afterward.
And Hillary Clinton's chief of staff was involved
in that. Thanks, Foster's death. Yeah, that's
been a source of speculation and conspiracy theories
for decades. The book also talks about Foster's
role in managing private donations for White
House renovations. Some of that money came from
Epstein and from Clark Clifford, who was caught
up in the BCCI scandal. Then there's that suicide
note they found, which some people say was forged.
And it mentioned a White House Historical Association
fundraiser that Epstein was involved in. Makes
you wonder if it was all connected to some espionage
investigation. All those inconsistencies and
questions about the note. It keeps the speculation
alive for sure. And Webb even discusses allegations,
although unproven, that Foster and Hillary Clinton
were selling secrets. To Israel, maybe other
countries too, like China. And that Foster's
Swiss bank account might have been involved.
He also brings up the Chinagate scandal, which
was about illegal campaign donations from foreign
sources. And guess who was involved in that?
John Hwang and Mark Middleton, both of them connected
to Epstein. It's like all these things are somehow
connected. It's a disturbing picture, isn't it?
All these alleged connections, the potential
espionage, vulnerabilities at the highest levels
of government. So moving on to technology and
science, the book talks about Isabel Maxwell,
Ghislaine's sister. She was involved in Israeli
tech companies. like Comtouch. And she had connections
to Bill Gates and Paul Allen, the Microsoft founders.
In fact, Microsoft even said that Magellan, a
company owned by the Maxwells, would be powering
the search function for MSN. The Maxwell family's
influence was everywhere, including the tech
world and their relationship with Microsoft.
That's significant. Totally. And then there's
Nathan Myhrvold. He was Microsoft's first chief
technology officer, close advisor to Bill Gates.
He also reportedly had ties to Epstein. And Epstein
himself was connected to supercomputer companies,
like thinking machines. He was even close with
Danny Hillis, the co -founder. Seems like Epstein
was strategically trying to build relationships
with people who were on the cutting edge of tech.
It's like he had this talent for connecting with
influential people across all sorts of fields.
Exactly. And then there's John Brockman and the
Edge Foundation. Epstein was associated with
them, too. So now he's connected to this network
of scientists and thinkers. And despite all the
stuff we know about Epstein, Bill Gates met with
him multiple times, even donated to MIT through
him. Melinda Gates was reportedly not happy about
that relationship, though. Why would someone
like Bill Gates stay connected to Epstein? yeah
gates and epstein that's caused a lot of debate
raises questions about his judgment what his
motivations were and here's the really disturbing
part the book talks about epstein's interest
in eugenics he supposedly wanted to seed the
human race with his dna he even talked about
it with scientists and get this he had this plan
to impregnate 20 women at a time at his ranch
in new mexico he was also connected to geneticists
like george church at harvard It's really unsettling
the kind of mindset he had. Yeah, that's some
dark stuff. Really raises questions about his
motivations and what he was doing with those
scientists. Let's talk about mass surveillance.
Webb brings up Carbine, which is an NG911 platform
with ties to Israel. Lots of concerns about the
potential for mass surveillance and data access
with that. Then there's the Promise software
scandal involving stolen tech, U .S. and Israeli
intelligence, Robert Maxwell, the whole thing.
And it was supposedly connected to main core,
which was all about using big data for domestic
surveillance. Surveillance technology and the
role of intelligence agencies and private companies.
Yeah, it's a complicated and often disturbing
area. The Total Information Awareness Program,
or TIA, got shut down because people freaked
out about privacy. But it allegedly continued
in secret. and evolved into private companies
like Palantir, which was initially backed by
the CIA. And Christine Maxwell, Ghislaine's sister,
was involved in Chiliad, a company with software
similar to Promise. So it's like this network
involved in surveillance tech never really went
away. And then there's Epstein's own company,
Southern Trust. They focused on collecting DNA
data, more concerns about privacy and data harvesting.
It just shows you how sophisticated surveillance
tech has become and how easy it would be for
governments and private companies to misuse it.
We live in a digital world, and that means our
data is vulnerable. OK, so let's talk about the
scope of Epstein's sex trafficking operation.
Jean -Luc Bunel, he was supposedly key in the
modeling industry. recruiting young models for
exploitation. Ghislaine Maxwell, of course, she
was allegedly running the whole thing, managing
the victims. And Epstein targeted victims from
performing arts schools, places like Interlochen
Center for the Arts. The way Maxwell supposedly
operated, targeting vulnerable young women with
fake promises, is really awful. Yeah, those tactics
are just heartbreaking. Shows you how predatory
that whole network was, preying on the vulnerable.
Prince Andrew. Islane Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein,
they were all publicly linked starting around
2000. The book mentions Andrew's role at UK Trade
and Investment, or UKTI, and the accusations
that he was helping with arms deals, especially
in Indonesia. And Epstein's mentor, Adnan Khashoggi,
he was big in the arms trade. Makes you wonder
if there's a connection there. Prince Andrew
and Epstein, yeah, that's been a huge scandal,
especially given his official role in promoting
British trade. And finally, the book looks at
Bill Clinton's relationship with Epstein after
he was president and how Epstein might have influenced
the early days of the Clinton Foundation. There's
documentation of Clinton flying on Epstein's
plane to places like Singapore and China. Sometimes
Maxwell was with him. It all raises questions,
especially when you think about Chinagate. Yeah,
Clinton and Epstein after the presidency. Another
thing that's raised eyebrows, considering what
we know about Epstein and his circle. Wow, that
was a lot. A really intense deep dive into Whitney
Webb's One Nation Under Blackmail, Volume 2.
Gives you a lot to think about in terms of the
forces shaping our world. What do you think?
Yeah, it's mind blowing. The number of people,
institutions, all the stuff going on as detailed
in the book. It makes you really think about
how things work. What was the most surprising
thing we talked about today? What really made
you think? Let us know in the comments. Keep
exploring these topics. Come to your own conclusions.
It's important to do this kind of deep investigation,
to consider all sides of the story. That's how
you really start to understand these issues.
Here's a final thought. After everything we've
discussed about these networks of power, finance,
and intelligence, how does that change the way
you see the world? Not just history, but the
reality we live in right now. Thanks for joining
us on this deep dive.