WEBVTT 00:00:26.199 --> 00:00:30.149 Okay people, listen up, here we go. This is Nature's 00:00:30.149 --> 00:00:32.170 Secret Service, the podcast that puts you in 00:00:32.170 --> 00:00:34.369 the room with the men and women of wildlife law 00:00:34.369 --> 00:00:37.670 enforcement. I'm your host, Ed Newcomer, and 00:00:37.670 --> 00:00:39.450 I was a special agent for the U .S. Fish and 00:00:39.450 --> 00:00:43.530 Wildlife Service for more than 20 years. Today, 00:00:43.609 --> 00:00:45.909 I'm bringing you another bonus episode to bridge 00:00:45.909 --> 00:00:49.070 the gap between seasons two and three. Season 00:00:49.070 --> 00:00:50.829 three is shaping up, and I think it's going to 00:00:50.829 --> 00:00:53.590 be a good one. I hope you'll tune in and help 00:00:53.590 --> 00:00:56.369 the podcast grow by telling your family, friends, 00:00:56.469 --> 00:00:59.020 and coworkers about it. and then trapping them 00:00:59.020 --> 00:01:00.880 in the car with you while you force them to listen 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:05.099 to an episode or two. On January 21st of this 00:01:05.099 --> 00:01:08.900 year, 2026, I was invited to testify before Congress. 00:01:09.579 --> 00:01:11.739 I was one of four witnesses who appeared before 00:01:11.739 --> 00:01:14.180 the House Natural Resources Committee to talk 00:01:14.180 --> 00:01:16.239 about wildlife trafficking and how it impacts 00:01:16.239 --> 00:01:19.439 the security of the United States. Although I 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:21.400 was originally going to edit the hearing so that 00:01:21.400 --> 00:01:24.329 you'd hear only my testimony, A trusted listener 00:01:24.329 --> 00:01:26.849 and fan encouraged me to replay the entire hearing 00:01:26.849 --> 00:01:29.689 so that you, the loyal listeners of this podcast, 00:01:30.310 --> 00:01:33.170 could get a feel for the whole picture. Especially 00:01:33.170 --> 00:01:35.349 of interest to me was the crazy guy next to me 00:01:35.349 --> 00:01:37.549 who was advocating for the legalization of the 00:01:37.549 --> 00:01:40.790 rhino horn trade. That issue is so important, 00:01:41.230 --> 00:01:43.670 it just might become the topic of a future episode. 00:01:45.069 --> 00:01:47.849 Okay, sit back, put your feet up, get yourself 00:01:47.849 --> 00:01:50.560 an icy cold Coke, and be prepared to be lulled 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:52.680 to sleep by the excitement of a congressional 00:01:52.680 --> 00:02:18.180 hearing. Thanks for listening. I therefore ask 00:02:18.180 --> 00:02:20.120 unanimous consent that all other members' statements 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:22.259 be made part of the hearing record, as they are 00:02:22.259 --> 00:02:24.780 submitted in accordance with Committee Rule 3 00:02:24.780 --> 00:02:30.539 -0, without objection to order. I ask unanimous 00:02:30.539 --> 00:02:32.039 consent that the following members be allowed 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:34.759 to sit and participate in today's hearing. The 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:38.319 gentleman from Mississippi, Mr. Azell. The gentleman 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:40.819 from Iowa, Mr. Miller -Meeks. The gentleman from 00:02:40.819 --> 00:02:43.500 Pennsylvania, Mr. Joyce. And the gentleman from 00:02:43.500 --> 00:02:46.360 Illinois, Mr. Quigley. Any additional last -minute 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:49.479 waivers, waive -ons here? Without objection, 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:51.879 so ordered. I now recognize myself for my opening 00:02:51.879 --> 00:02:56.000 statement. Good afternoon, everyone. Sorry you 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:58.340 were waiting. We just had votes and I've got 00:02:58.340 --> 00:02:59.659 two hearings and I'm running back and forth. 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:02.560 So, all I think of witnesses for traveling to 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:04.560 Washington, D .C. to testify before the committee 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:07.500 today for a very necessary conversation regarding 00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:10.520 national security implications of the international 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:13.610 conservation and environmental crime. When someone 00:03:13.610 --> 00:03:16.310 mentions international conservation, the first 00:03:16.310 --> 00:03:18.650 thing that comes to mind is not transnational 00:03:18.650 --> 00:03:21.550 criminal organizations or terrorist groups. But 00:03:21.550 --> 00:03:24.229 increasingly, these criminal networks and nefarious 00:03:24.229 --> 00:03:26.129 actors are using environmental crime to fund 00:03:26.129 --> 00:03:28.469 their organizations and inflict violence across 00:03:28.469 --> 00:03:32.349 the globe. Environmental crime is the world's 00:03:32.349 --> 00:03:35.710 fourth largest crime sector, generating hundreds 00:03:35.710 --> 00:03:38.990 of billions of dollars in revenue annually. Compared 00:03:38.990 --> 00:03:41.840 to narcotics and human trafficking, Wildlife 00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:44.560 trafficking is met with much less stringent enforcement, 00:03:44.819 --> 00:03:46.780 and many of our enemies around the globe have 00:03:46.780 --> 00:03:49.219 taken note and are starting to stick their finger 00:03:49.219 --> 00:03:53.039 into this pie. Whether it's cartels such as Sinaloa 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:57.460 or Newt de la Hasco, and Latin America and Al 00:03:57.460 --> 00:04:00.199 -Qaeda and ISIS affiliates throughout Africa 00:04:00.199 --> 00:04:04.900 and the Middle East, or China's exploitive deep 00:04:04.900 --> 00:04:08.379 water fleet operating across the high seas. America's 00:04:08.379 --> 00:04:10.520 adversaries have taken advantage of the low -hanging 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:13.639 fruit that is environmental crime. To make matters 00:04:13.639 --> 00:04:16.199 even harder to follow, wildlife trafficking is 00:04:16.199 --> 00:04:18.660 utilized by cartels and Chinese -affiliated organizations 00:04:18.660 --> 00:04:22.720 as a form of money laundering. Cartels will barter 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:24.779 wildlife products such as the rare hardwoods, 00:04:24.819 --> 00:04:26.920 like today's most trafficked wildlife commodity, 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:30.500 rosewood, or other animal products, which are 00:04:30.500 --> 00:04:35.069 often sold as luxury goods. or used in traditional 00:04:35.069 --> 00:04:37.509 Chinese medicines with Chinese groups in exchange 00:04:37.509 --> 00:04:41.089 for precursor chemicals used in the production 00:04:41.089 --> 00:04:44.029 of fentanyl. Essentially, these trafficked goods 00:04:44.029 --> 00:04:46.089 coming from endangered species are being used 00:04:46.089 --> 00:04:48.750 to fuel the opioid epidemic that has gripped 00:04:48.750 --> 00:04:52.310 our country, all at the fault of China. Across 00:04:52.310 --> 00:04:55.129 the globe in the Central African Republic, Russia's 00:04:55.129 --> 00:04:57.910 Wagner Group has secured a 30 -year -long logging 00:04:57.910 --> 00:05:01.670 concession to exploit Africa as a nation's weak 00:05:01.670 --> 00:05:04.660 governance and natural resources. If the Wagner 00:05:04.660 --> 00:05:07.120 Group extracts wood from just a third of this 00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:09.560 land, does this mean this revenue will generate 00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:13.639 over $900 million? Wow. Not only these environmental 00:05:13.639 --> 00:05:16.040 crimes, funding cartels, and the opioid epidemic, 00:05:16.259 --> 00:05:19.180 but wars were traded by Russia and mercenaries 00:05:19.180 --> 00:05:22.019 as well. As part of the Convention on the International 00:05:22.019 --> 00:05:24.920 Trade of Endangered Species or CITES, the United 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:27.079 States has a strong commitment to address wildlife 00:05:27.079 --> 00:05:28.899 trafficking, which is displayed throughout our 00:05:28.899 --> 00:05:31.759 implementation of the Lacey Act. Despite our 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:34.639 strong relations, some illegal suppliers are 00:05:34.639 --> 00:05:36.519 still able to slip through the cracks and access 00:05:36.519 --> 00:05:39.920 the lucrative American market through mislabeling 00:05:39.920 --> 00:05:41.939 practices or laundering their goods through countries 00:05:41.939 --> 00:05:44.680 with less power, less oversight, such as China. 00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:47.040 Today we'll be hearing from witnesses coming 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:49.779 from industry groups, academia, and prior service 00:05:49.779 --> 00:05:52.439 with the Fish and Wildlife Service about the 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:55.000 disaster effects of wildlife trafficking, illegal 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:57.959 logging, and illegal, unreported, and unregulated 00:05:57.959 --> 00:06:00.889 fishing have towards our nation's economic border 00:06:00.889 --> 00:06:05.149 and resource security. These effects don't just 00:06:05.149 --> 00:06:07.470 allow criminal groups to proliferate, but these 00:06:07.470 --> 00:06:10.490 crimes cause downstream consequences that ultimately 00:06:10.490 --> 00:06:13.930 harm American producers' property operating according 00:06:13.930 --> 00:06:16.009 to the rule of law. I look forward to the hearing 00:06:16.009 --> 00:06:18.490 from our witnesses today about how these crimes 00:06:18.490 --> 00:06:20.790 are proliferating and the ways that we can mitigate 00:06:20.790 --> 00:06:24.410 their consequences. I thank you, and I now recognize 00:06:24.410 --> 00:06:26.810 the ranking of Ms. Dexter for her five minutes. 00:06:27.500 --> 00:06:29.360 Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to the 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:32.480 witnesses for being here today. Wildlife trafficking 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:36.459 has spiraling impacts. It makes entire ecosystems 00:06:36.459 --> 00:06:39.220 more vulnerable to collapse. It threatens the 00:06:39.220 --> 00:06:42.100 foundational biodiversity on which all economies 00:06:42.100 --> 00:06:45.139 depend. It undermines legitimate businesses that 00:06:45.139 --> 00:06:47.540 work hard every day to operate within the law. 00:06:47.839 --> 00:06:50.699 In the case of illegal, unreported, and unregulated 00:06:50.699 --> 00:06:53.800 fishing, the human rights abuses are appalling 00:06:53.800 --> 00:06:57.129 and food contaminant issues contamination issues 00:06:57.129 --> 00:07:00.449 are widespread. But as a physician, I want to 00:07:00.449 --> 00:07:03.009 focus on an under -recognized national security 00:07:03.009 --> 00:07:05.850 threat, the spread of dangerous pathogens through 00:07:05.850 --> 00:07:08.709 international wildlife trade, both legal and 00:07:08.709 --> 00:07:12.149 illegal. The 2018 National Biodefense Strategy 00:07:12.149 --> 00:07:14.290 released by the first Trump White House says 00:07:14.290 --> 00:07:17.069 it plainly, biological threats, whether naturally 00:07:17.069 --> 00:07:19.430 occurring, accidental, or deliberate in origin, 00:07:19.870 --> 00:07:22.430 are among the most serious threats facing the 00:07:22.430 --> 00:07:24.870 United States and the international community. 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:27.899 Outbreaks of disease can cause catastrophic harm 00:07:27.899 --> 00:07:30.560 to the United States. They can cause death, sicken 00:07:30.560 --> 00:07:33.019 and disable on a massive scale, and they can 00:07:33.019 --> 00:07:36.500 also inflict psychological trauma and economic 00:07:36.500 --> 00:07:39.420 and social disruption. Again, that was the Trump 00:07:39.420 --> 00:07:43.180 administration. COVID is the most obvious example, 00:07:43.459 --> 00:07:45.500 having most likely been spread through a wet 00:07:45.500 --> 00:07:48.300 market where wildlife was traded legally. In 00:07:48.300 --> 00:07:51.480 2002, a different SARS outbreak was caused by 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:54.420 trade in civets. Mpox was first introduced in 00:07:54.420 --> 00:07:57.680 the US from pet prairie dogs that were co -housed 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:01.180 with rodents imported from Ghana. The data are 00:08:01.180 --> 00:08:04.560 overwhelming. Roughly 75 percent of infectious 00:08:04.560 --> 00:08:07.779 diseases originate from animals and over 70 percent 00:08:07.779 --> 00:08:10.300 of these emerging diseases from animals originate 00:08:10.300 --> 00:08:12.839 in wildlife rather than domesticated animals. 00:08:13.420 --> 00:08:15.720 The avian flu outbreak alone in the U .S. has 00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:18.500 killed two out of the seven confirmed human infections 00:08:18.500 --> 00:08:22.060 in the U .S. had killed two out of the seven 00:08:22.060 --> 00:08:25.060 confirmed and have resulted in the deaths of 00:08:25.060 --> 00:08:29.319 185 million birds. Damage estimates exceed 1 00:08:29.319 --> 00:08:32.799 .5 billion dollars. Major disease outbreaks from 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:36.440 zoonotic diseases or as most of the people here 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:38.879 know, diseases that jump from animals to humans 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:42.259 can emerge through wildlife trade, but they also 00:08:42.259 --> 00:08:45.059 originate domestically. One of this country's 00:08:45.059 --> 00:08:47.360 biggest national security vulnerabilities is 00:08:47.360 --> 00:08:50.259 that no one is systematically tracking these 00:08:50.259 --> 00:08:53.299 diseases as they move across the country in wildlife. 00:08:53.919 --> 00:08:56.179 The National Academies of Science, Congressional 00:08:56.179 --> 00:08:59.419 Blue Ribbon Panels, Nonprofit Organization Studies, 00:08:59.539 --> 00:09:01.720 and the National Strategy on Biodefense have 00:09:01.720 --> 00:09:05.120 recognized the need to conduct disease surveillance 00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:07.600 in wildlife across the country in order to help 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:10.000 prevent major outbreaks. That's why I've been 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:12.840 working with states, tribes, hunters, and zoonotic 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:16.419 experts on legislation to shore up our national 00:09:16.419 --> 00:09:19.100 security with wildlife disease surveillance. 00:09:19.679 --> 00:09:21.759 I hope my Republican colleagues will work with 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:25.039 me to find common ground on this effort. Unfortunately, 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:28.370 so far, it has been the opposite. They gutted 00:09:28.370 --> 00:09:32.129 USAID, which led a global cooperative effort 00:09:32.129 --> 00:09:34.830 to track zoonotic diseases overseas before they 00:09:34.830 --> 00:09:37.809 reached their shores. In 2021, Democrats passed 00:09:37.809 --> 00:09:40.690 the American Rescue Plan, which included 20 million 00:09:40.690 --> 00:09:43.929 to combat wildlife trafficking, 45 million to 00:09:43.929 --> 00:09:46.850 track zoonotic diseases, and 10 million to stop 00:09:46.850 --> 00:09:49.289 the trade of wildlife that pose serious health 00:09:49.289 --> 00:09:52.809 risks. Much of that funding was rescinded by 00:09:52.809 --> 00:09:55.539 Republicans before it could ever be used. They 00:09:55.539 --> 00:09:58.120 cut the funding for US Fish and Wildlife Service 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:00.980 law enforcement, leaving it severely understaffed. 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:02.759 And they disbanded the Department of Homeland 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:05.799 Security team, which was poised to make significant 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:08.840 inroads into wildlife trafficking. So once again, 00:10:08.840 --> 00:10:11.580 we are here watching my colleagues blame agencies 00:10:11.580 --> 00:10:14.440 for failing to do a job that they themselves 00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:17.220 have defunded. I agree with my colleagues and 00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:19.679 my chair that this is a major issue that we need 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:22.659 to be addressing. However, we shouldn't be cutting 00:10:22.659 --> 00:10:25.340 the funding to do just that. at the same time 00:10:25.340 --> 00:10:28.759 that we demand better. We all should be demanding 00:10:28.759 --> 00:10:32.299 better. And I, with that, yield back to the chair. 00:10:32.840 --> 00:10:42.840 I think... To hear... This whole committee chairman, 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:45.340 Mr. Westman, for his five minutes. Thank you, 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:47.340 Chairman Gosar, and thank you to the witnesses 00:10:47.340 --> 00:10:51.120 for being here. I do want to thank you for taking 00:10:51.120 --> 00:10:55.220 time. Talk about an important subject and also 00:10:55.220 --> 00:10:57.659 understand that the witness from the US Fish 00:10:57.659 --> 00:10:59.919 and Wildlife Service who was scheduled to appear 00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:03.320 came down with the flu and was unable to appear. 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:06.539 We wish him a speedy recovery and note that we 00:11:06.539 --> 00:11:08.840 will submit all of our questions that we would 00:11:08.840 --> 00:11:12.539 have asked for the record. This committee does 00:11:12.539 --> 00:11:14.919 have a strong record of looking at dangerous 00:11:14.919 --> 00:11:17.600 cartels and transnational criminal organizations 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:21.179 or TCOs. and the damaging impacts they have on 00:11:21.179 --> 00:11:24.220 our borders, public lands, and tribal communities. 00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:29.080 I know we were on a CODEL in Tanzania a couple 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:32.399 years ago, and we met with former poachers who 00:11:32.399 --> 00:11:36.220 were showing us how some of these criminal organizations 00:11:36.220 --> 00:11:39.620 poach bush meat to feed terrorist organizations. 00:11:39.700 --> 00:11:43.159 It's a real thing that happens all across the 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:46.320 world, and we have, I think, a role in helping 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:50.419 stop that. But one of the lesser known elements 00:11:50.419 --> 00:11:54.559 of these groups is their involvement, not just 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:57.519 in tracking of wildlife, but other natural resources. 00:11:57.580 --> 00:12:01.220 And as our domestic borders are secured, cartels 00:12:01.220 --> 00:12:04.139 and TCOs continue to reinvent and update their 00:12:04.139 --> 00:12:06.820 operations globally in order to generate income. 00:12:07.779 --> 00:12:09.799 Wildlife trafficking and related environmental 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:12.080 crimes are now the world's fourth largest crime 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:15.570 sector. posing serious risk to national security, 00:12:15.769 --> 00:12:19.149 public health, and economic security. These illegal 00:12:19.149 --> 00:12:21.309 operations have been valued anywhere between 00:12:21.309 --> 00:12:25.049 $7 billion and $23 billion annually. With that 00:12:25.049 --> 00:12:27.990 kind of reward and relatively low risk, nefarious 00:12:27.990 --> 00:12:30.370 actors are incentivized to expand their networks 00:12:30.370 --> 00:12:34.009 and reach to conduct wildlife trafficking. Notably, 00:12:34.169 --> 00:12:36.490 these numbers exclude illegal logging and fishing, 00:12:36.789 --> 00:12:39.169 which also contribute to the distortion of global 00:12:39.169 --> 00:12:42.379 timber and seafood markets. Illegal logging is 00:12:42.379 --> 00:12:45.080 estimated to depress world timber prices by 7 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:48.279 to 16 percent, impairing U .S. producers' ability 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:52.539 to export and harming ecosystems. Illegal, unreported, 00:12:52.639 --> 00:12:55.659 and unregulated IUG fishing forces American seafood 00:12:55.659 --> 00:12:58.700 producers to face competitors who bypass the 00:12:58.700 --> 00:13:01.299 regulations and operational costs, and one of 00:13:01.299 --> 00:13:03.480 the worst offenders being the People's Republic 00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:06.679 of China. With growing demand both domestically 00:13:06.679 --> 00:13:09.299 and globally for traditional medicines, fashion, 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:12.639 jewelry, exotic pets, and wild food, the illegal 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:14.879 trade of these items as compared to the legal 00:13:14.879 --> 00:13:17.720 trade of these goods wreaks havoc on markets 00:13:17.720 --> 00:13:20.179 and can create major health and security risks. 00:13:20.940 --> 00:13:23.960 Cartels, TCOs, and their expansive criminal networks 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:26.259 have only evolved in their strategies to evade 00:13:26.259 --> 00:13:30.029 detection. using wildlife commodities like Totoaba 00:13:30.029 --> 00:13:32.830 swim bladders, highly sought after in Chinese 00:13:32.830 --> 00:13:35.710 medicine, to fund their operations, even trading 00:13:35.710 --> 00:13:38.169 these products for precursor chemicals to produce 00:13:38.169 --> 00:13:41.110 fentanyl. The U .S. Fish and Wildlife Service 00:13:41.110 --> 00:13:44.409 Office of Law Enforcement, OLE, is tasked with 00:13:44.409 --> 00:13:46.570 the protection and management of wildlife, working 00:13:46.570 --> 00:13:49.190 closely with U .S. Customs and Border Protection, 00:13:49.529 --> 00:13:52.389 as well as the NOAA Fisheries Office of Law Enforcement, 00:13:52.889 --> 00:13:55.710 enforcing the law, inspecting shipments as ports 00:13:55.710 --> 00:13:57.610 of entry, and supporting international treaty 00:13:57.610 --> 00:14:00.559 compliance. Addressing the complexities of international 00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:03.019 wildlife trafficking, IUU fishing and illegal 00:14:03.019 --> 00:14:05.940 logging requires effective inter -agency collaboration 00:14:05.940 --> 00:14:09.100 and careful participation in international discussions 00:14:09.100 --> 00:14:12.279 and investigations. As environmental crime grows 00:14:12.279 --> 00:14:14.879 up to three times the pace of the global economy, 00:14:15.259 --> 00:14:17.820 we must ensure law enforcement and wildlife management 00:14:17.820 --> 00:14:20.340 agencies have the support they need to protect 00:14:20.340 --> 00:14:22.659 our national security and to put America first 00:14:22.659 --> 00:14:24.840 in our approach to international conservation. 00:14:25.500 --> 00:14:27.379 This hearing provides a valuable opportunity 00:14:27.379 --> 00:14:29.559 to better understand and address these ongoing 00:14:29.559 --> 00:14:32.259 threats, as well as look toward potential solutions 00:14:32.259 --> 00:14:34.620 for increasing conservation efforts globally 00:14:34.620 --> 00:14:37.279 from our American producers and sportsmen who 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:39.000 have been involved in these efforts for many 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:41.360 years. Again, I want to thank you for being here. 00:14:41.500 --> 00:14:44.139 I look forward to hearing your testimony today, 00:14:44.139 --> 00:14:47.840 and I yield back. The chairman of the full committee 00:14:47.840 --> 00:14:49.799 now recognizes the ranking member for the full 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:51.799 committee, Mr. Huffman from California. Thank 00:14:51.799 --> 00:14:54.919 you, Mr. Chairman. And I am glad we're having 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:56.940 a hearing on this subject. It's a very important 00:14:56.940 --> 00:15:00.899 subject. I cannot improve on the descriptions 00:15:00.899 --> 00:15:03.259 of this problem that have just been given. The 00:15:03.259 --> 00:15:06.720 chairman laid it out very nicely. The ranking 00:15:06.720 --> 00:15:11.379 member spoke. You, Mr. Chairman, as well. I am 00:15:11.379 --> 00:15:14.000 troubled, though, at the disconnect, because 00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.259 we all agree that this is a huge problem. It 00:15:16.259 --> 00:15:19.200 has major national security implications, as 00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:24.149 many have already said. If we're going to be 00:15:24.149 --> 00:15:27.190 serious about this and treat it in the way that 00:15:27.190 --> 00:15:30.730 we say we regard it, we've got to take a look 00:15:30.730 --> 00:15:33.330 at the capacity that it takes to confront a threat 00:15:33.330 --> 00:15:36.470 like this. We're naming it, but we've got to 00:15:36.470 --> 00:15:39.389 also have a conversation about what this administration 00:15:39.389 --> 00:15:42.190 is actually doing. And that, unfortunately, requires 00:15:42.190 --> 00:15:44.309 my friends across the aisle to do something they 00:15:44.309 --> 00:15:46.509 don't often do, and that is you've got to ask 00:15:46.509 --> 00:15:50.190 hard questions. You've got to hold this administration 00:15:50.190 --> 00:15:54.200 to a high standard. And in this case, I think 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:56.639 if you're honest about this, you got to bring 00:15:56.639 --> 00:16:00.720 some critical analysis to the problem because 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:03.700 we have to maintain capacity to confront these 00:16:03.700 --> 00:16:06.659 threats. It requires staffing. It requires expertise, 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:11.860 intelligence coordination, specialized enforcement 00:16:11.860 --> 00:16:15.059 skills. And that's where this hearing just comes 00:16:15.059 --> 00:16:18.470 crashing into the reality. of what the administration 00:16:18.470 --> 00:16:20.730 and the Republican Congress have been doing, 00:16:20.889 --> 00:16:24.330 because their attacks on agency staff and funding, 00:16:24.730 --> 00:16:27.649 staffing at the Fish and Wildlife Service, it 00:16:27.649 --> 00:16:30.090 has been slashed to the bone. They've left a 00:16:30.090 --> 00:16:33.429 handful of agents stretched across a global criminal 00:16:33.429 --> 00:16:35.789 market worth tens of billions of dollars. Major 00:16:35.789 --> 00:16:39.970 ports of entry have been left dangerously understaffed, 00:16:40.090 --> 00:16:43.730 even as traffickers rely overwhelmingly on commercial 00:16:43.730 --> 00:16:46.759 cargo and mail. They're not bringing this wildlife 00:16:46.759 --> 00:16:48.860 across the border in backpacks of the southern 00:16:48.860 --> 00:16:52.419 border. At the same time, the Trump administration 00:16:52.419 --> 00:16:56.299 shut down the Wildlife and Environmental Crimes 00:16:56.299 --> 00:17:01.379 Unit at DHS, the very unit created to target 00:17:01.379 --> 00:17:04.839 fraud, money laundering, and sanction evasion 00:17:04.839 --> 00:17:07.720 tied to wildlife trafficking. So put plainly, 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:12.259 this administration and its apologists have virtually 00:17:12.259 --> 00:17:15.630 taken apart the mechanisms. that we're designed 00:17:15.630 --> 00:17:18.849 to confront this problem that we all seem to 00:17:18.849 --> 00:17:21.750 take so seriously. And when Republicans hold 00:17:21.750 --> 00:17:24.029 a hearing and call it a national security hearing 00:17:24.029 --> 00:17:28.690 without taking that part of the equation seriously, 00:17:29.049 --> 00:17:31.289 we've just got a terrible disconnect that we 00:17:31.289 --> 00:17:33.829 have to resolve. You can't warn about transnational 00:17:33.829 --> 00:17:36.470 criminal networks while systematically dismantling 00:17:36.470 --> 00:17:40.190 the federal capacity needed to stop them. Wildlife 00:17:40.190 --> 00:17:42.670 trafficking is expanding because enforcement 00:17:42.670 --> 00:17:45.519 has been gutted. Organized crime is embedding 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:48.380 itself deeper because the guardrails have been 00:17:48.380 --> 00:17:51.059 torn down and if this hearing were truly about 00:17:51.059 --> 00:17:54.599 national security then we would Be focusing on 00:17:54.599 --> 00:17:57.720 all of that. I hope maybe we will I hope I'll 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:01.259 be pleasantly surprised Because wildlife trafficking 00:18:01.259 --> 00:18:05.339 does not pause for political theater It festers 00:18:05.339 --> 00:18:08.180 in these gaps and under this administration those 00:18:08.180 --> 00:18:11.599 gaps have been thrown wide open I look forward 00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:14.670 to the conversation and I yield back I thank 00:18:14.670 --> 00:18:17.609 the ranking member for his comments. I am now 00:18:17.609 --> 00:18:20.069 going to recognize and introduce witnesses for 00:18:20.069 --> 00:18:23.349 today's hearing. First, we have Dr. Evan Ellis, 00:18:23.809 --> 00:18:26.289 Senior Non -Resident Associate Center for Strategic 00:18:26.289 --> 00:18:29.349 and International Studies, Carlisle Barracks, 00:18:30.109 --> 00:18:32.890 Pennsylvania. Mr. Thomas Benavides, did I say 00:18:32.890 --> 00:18:36.670 it right? Wow. I think I first think of it the 00:18:36.670 --> 00:18:39.190 first time. Assistant Vice President for the 00:18:39.190 --> 00:18:41.309 Board of Directors, Dallas Safari Club of Reno, 00:18:41.309 --> 00:18:45.700 Texas. Then we have Mr. Ed Newcomer, U .S. Fish 00:18:45.700 --> 00:18:48.019 and Wildlife Service Special Agent, retired, 00:18:48.619 --> 00:18:52.579 Gardena, California. And last but not least, 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:57.380 Dr. Eric Kingma, Executive Director, Hawaii Longtime 00:18:57.380 --> 00:19:00.299 Association, Honolulu, Hawaii. Let me remind 00:19:00.299 --> 00:19:01.940 the witnesses that under those pretty rules, 00:19:02.039 --> 00:19:03.660 you must limit your oral statements to about 00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:05.579 five minutes. You'll see the light go on green. 00:19:05.819 --> 00:19:07.220 When it starts to turn yellow, that means you 00:19:07.220 --> 00:19:09.160 got a minute to wrap it up and ready if you can 00:19:09.160 --> 00:19:12.089 cut it off quickly. Your whole testimony will 00:19:12.089 --> 00:19:14.710 be placed in the record. To be in your testimony, 00:19:14.849 --> 00:19:16.849 please press the on button. I have to be reminded 00:19:16.849 --> 00:19:19.950 of that all the time. So that way we can hear 00:19:19.950 --> 00:19:23.849 everybody. So now I recognize Dr. Ellis for your 00:19:23.849 --> 00:19:28.250 five minutes. Chairman Gosar, Chairman Westerman, 00:19:28.910 --> 00:19:30.710 Madam Ranking Member, Ranking Member Huffman, 00:19:31.049 --> 00:19:33.109 thank you very much for the opportunity to testify 00:19:33.109 --> 00:19:35.009 before the committee today. These are, of course, 00:19:35.109 --> 00:19:38.329 my personal views. Criminal activity by Chinese 00:19:38.329 --> 00:19:40.589 groups in the Western Hemisphere are a serious 00:19:40.589 --> 00:19:43.470 problem for its institutions and its prosperity, 00:19:43.750 --> 00:19:45.650 but of course they also threaten its resources 00:19:45.650 --> 00:19:48.029 and environmental health. These activities present 00:19:48.029 --> 00:19:50.390 unique challenges due to the limited capacity 00:19:50.390 --> 00:20:19.869 of. Okay people, listen up, here we go. This 00:20:19.869 --> 00:20:22.269 is Nature's Secret Service, the podcast that 00:20:22.269 --> 00:20:24.269 puts you in the room with the men and women of 00:20:24.269 --> 00:20:27.910 wildlife law enforcement. I'm your host, Ed Newcomer, 00:20:28.130 --> 00:20:29.910 and I was a special agent for the U .S. Fish 00:20:29.910 --> 00:20:31.609 and Wildlife Service for more than 20 years. 00:20:31.750 --> 00:20:33.930 Techniques such as the use of trawl nets that 00:20:33.930 --> 00:20:35.910 have already caused the collapse of fisheries 00:20:35.910 --> 00:20:38.710 in Asia, strained those in Africa, and are currently 00:20:38.710 --> 00:20:41.049 contributing to hardships in Latin American coastal 00:20:41.049 --> 00:20:43.950 communities. In illegal mining, Chinese entities 00:20:43.950 --> 00:20:46.390 purchase gold and other products locally and 00:20:46.390 --> 00:20:48.809 globally, as well as supplying materials, tools, 00:20:49.029 --> 00:20:51.289 food, and clothing to miners in illicit networks. 00:20:52.049 --> 00:20:54.450 Chinese involvement in illegal timber trafficking 00:20:54.450 --> 00:20:57.849 contributes to deforestation. It's also an enabler 00:20:57.849 --> 00:20:59.829 of illegal mining, and it is used to smuggle 00:20:59.829 --> 00:21:03.190 materials as well as other illegal traffic activities. 00:21:04.090 --> 00:21:06.890 Chinese company Baishanlin was implicated, for 00:21:06.890 --> 00:21:09.390 example, in illegal timber exports in Guyana, 00:21:09.630 --> 00:21:13.170 while in Peru in 2021, Luisa Dalgo Okomura, the 00:21:13.170 --> 00:21:16.069 governor of Madre Díos province, was named in 00:21:16.069 --> 00:21:18.769 a timber smuggling case involving Chinese entities, 00:21:18.829 --> 00:21:21.420 to give one example. In wildlife trafficking 00:21:21.420 --> 00:21:24.440 specifically, piracy demand includes that for 00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:27.619 reptile skins, shark fins, jaguar and puma skins 00:21:27.619 --> 00:21:30.380 and teeth, butterflies, totoaba swim bladder, 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:33.160 as the chairman mentioned, as well as seahorses 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:36.539 and various other flora and fauna. Chinese wildlife 00:21:36.539 --> 00:21:40.119 poaching does increase the peril to endangered 00:21:40.119 --> 00:21:42.980 species while generating illicit funds that undermine 00:21:42.980 --> 00:21:45.440 government control of the territories in which 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:48.539 they operate. In narco trafficking, PRC -based 00:21:48.539 --> 00:21:51.380 groups do send precursor chemicals to laboratories 00:21:51.380 --> 00:21:54.359 in Mexico and elsewhere. Fentanyl, specifically 00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:56.740 from Chinese precursors, killed an estimated 00:21:56.740 --> 00:22:01.079 48 ,000 Americans last year by overdose. In money 00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:03.359 laundering, the activities of Chinese gangs and 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:05.799 companies and financial institutions has proliferated 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:08.400 opportunities for criminal groups to hide their 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:11.059 illicit earnings in ways that are faster, cheaper, 00:22:11.380 --> 00:22:13.640 and harder to detect. Specifically in the Western 00:22:13.640 --> 00:22:17.440 Hemisphere, the US Treasury in 2024 stated that 00:22:17.440 --> 00:22:19.940 these organizations, quote, have become more 00:22:19.940 --> 00:22:22.779 prevalent and are now one of the key actors laundering 00:22:22.779 --> 00:22:25.019 money professionally in the United States and 00:22:25.019 --> 00:22:27.579 around the globe. Because Chinese illicit networks 00:22:27.579 --> 00:22:30.119 operate both in Latin America and the United 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:33.440 States, they potentially support also PRC espionage 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:36.519 activities here. With respect to human trafficking, 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:39.319 anecdotal evidence suggests that a racket involving 00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:42.299 prepayments to move ethnic Chinese through networks 00:22:42.299 --> 00:22:45.400 from the PRC to the US through multiple Latin 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.059 American countries collaborating with local Chinese 00:22:48.059 --> 00:22:51.019 gangs and Chinese communities. Specifically in 00:22:51.019 --> 00:22:54.039 2024, evidence suggests that more than 30 ,000 00:22:54.039 --> 00:22:56.319 Chinese were intercepted crossing the southern 00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:59.079 border from the US into the United States, from 00:22:59.079 --> 00:23:02.259 Mexico, creating opportunities for PRC security 00:23:02.259 --> 00:23:04.759 services to potentially use at least some of 00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:07.220 these for the purpose of espionage in a future 00:23:07.220 --> 00:23:09.839 conflict with the United States. The phenomenon 00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.660 of informal PRC police stations in the region 00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:15.980 also shows that PRC interfaces with this diaspora 00:23:15.980 --> 00:23:18.640 in the region in non -transparent and coercive 00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:21.640 ways, creating farther opportunities for espionage 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:25.400 and other damaging activity. With respect to 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:27.839 recommendations, for me it is important for the 00:23:27.839 --> 00:23:30.400 U .S. to increase its cooperation with law enforcement 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.279 and intelligence bodies in other countries in 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:36.259 the hemisphere, as well as being part of the 00:23:36.259 --> 00:23:38.400 prioritization that we see now through the new 00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.099 national security strategy on the Western Hemisphere. 00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:45.220 While Latin America often pushes back on U .S. 00:23:45.460 --> 00:23:47.339 pressure regarding Chinese commercial activities 00:23:47.339 --> 00:23:50.380 in the hemisphere, for me, cooperation on Chinese 00:23:50.380 --> 00:23:54.200 organized crime could be a win -win for our relationship 00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:56.559 with the region, helping it to combat illicit 00:23:56.559 --> 00:23:58.980 activity which would violate our collective sovereignty, 00:23:59.480 --> 00:24:01.859 our collective resources, destroy our collective 00:24:01.859 --> 00:24:04.359 environment, and undermine the rule of law. But 00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:06.720 as well, for the U .S., expanded cooperation 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:09.059 with Latin America on organized crime not only 00:24:09.059 --> 00:24:11.220 would strengthen our protection of resources 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:13.640 and the environment, but also to help us to better 00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:15.880 understand Chinese networks in the region that 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:18.680 potentially impact our national security, while 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:21.519 at the same time showcasing to our partners the 00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:24.700 harms to their own interests of improperly monitored 00:24:24.700 --> 00:24:27.059 and controlled PRC activities in the hemisphere 00:24:27.059 --> 00:24:29.500 that we share. Thank you very much for your time 00:24:29.500 --> 00:24:31.789 and considering my testimony today. Thank you, 00:24:31.869 --> 00:24:38.789 Dr. Ellis. I now recognize Mr. Benavides. Thank 00:24:38.789 --> 00:24:41.410 you, Chairman Gosar, Ranking Member Dexter, and 00:24:41.410 --> 00:24:43.569 members of the committee. Thank you very much 00:24:43.569 --> 00:24:46.789 for the opportunity to testify. I am Tom Benavides, 00:24:46.970 --> 00:24:48.670 an Assistant Vice President for the Board of 00:24:48.670 --> 00:24:51.569 Directors at Dallas Safari Club. I, along with 00:24:51.569 --> 00:24:53.490 my family, have been ranching cattle in Texas 00:24:53.490 --> 00:24:56.390 for generations. My parents ingrained in me the 00:24:56.390 --> 00:24:58.309 value of being a good steward for our habitat, 00:24:58.769 --> 00:25:02.400 our livestock, and wildlife alike. DSC and our 00:25:02.400 --> 00:25:04.819 separate charitable arm Dallas Safari Club Foundation 00:25:04.819 --> 00:25:07.500 are US -based conservation organizations that 00:25:07.500 --> 00:25:11.000 put conservation first and hunting second, working 00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:13.279 with wildlife departments worldwide to promote 00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:15.579 science -based wildlife management and sustainable 00:25:15.579 --> 00:25:18.940 use. Every year, both organizations award millions 00:25:18.940 --> 00:25:22.079 of dollars in grants for research, anti -poaching, 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:25.460 habitat, reintroduction, reducing human -wildlife 00:25:25.460 --> 00:25:29.029 conflict, and much more. I've been very lucky 00:25:29.029 --> 00:25:31.210 to experience many wild places on this planet, 00:25:31.630 --> 00:25:34.849 which led me to my love of rhinoceros. My wife 00:25:34.849 --> 00:25:36.970 and I have dedicated much of our life to establishing 00:25:36.970 --> 00:25:39.430 and maintaining a viable private breeding program 00:25:39.430 --> 00:25:41.829 of southern white rhino here in the United States, 00:25:42.190 --> 00:25:43.990 in the hope that we can help save the species 00:25:43.990 --> 00:25:47.269 and someday, perhaps, my children can be part 00:25:47.269 --> 00:25:50.269 of repopulating rhino in their natural habitat. 00:25:51.450 --> 00:25:53.630 While I applaud the hard work being done by American 00:25:53.630 --> 00:25:57.049 zoos and other NGOs, the strategy differs that 00:25:58.009 --> 00:26:00.809 differs from that of private breeders. A zoo's 00:26:00.809 --> 00:26:03.549 main purpose is to exhibit, educate, and inform 00:26:03.549 --> 00:26:05.509 the public to raise awareness about the current 00:26:05.509 --> 00:26:08.230 plight of endangered species and species like 00:26:08.230 --> 00:26:10.930 rhino. My purpose is to enhance the survival 00:26:10.930 --> 00:26:13.690 of the species by producing more rhino and moving 00:26:13.690 --> 00:26:15.829 them to a place that they can actually be protected. 00:26:17.349 --> 00:26:19.450 I'm trying to defend the existing individuals 00:26:19.450 --> 00:26:22.200 and increase the world's population. While raising 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:24.819 awareness is important, it does not result in 00:26:24.819 --> 00:26:27.200 a single new rhino nor does it place anti -poaching 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:31.099 measures in place. To successfully propagate, 00:26:31.700 --> 00:26:34.180 we must move out of traditional NGO tactics and 00:26:34.180 --> 00:26:37.019 encourage programs like ours. Conservation is 00:26:37.019 --> 00:26:40.079 simple, but it requires common sense and replicating 00:26:40.079 --> 00:26:43.539 how rhinos thrive in the wild. What can an America 00:26:43.539 --> 00:26:46.720 First administration do? Sadly, the U .S. government 00:26:46.720 --> 00:26:49.339 has been more of a hindrance than a help. From 00:26:49.339 --> 00:26:51.720 arbitrary red tape that has no basis in statute 00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:53.880 to permitting delays and requirements that cause 00:26:53.880 --> 00:26:57.079 undue stress on animals All I ask is that the 00:26:57.079 --> 00:27:00.619 US government be helpful rather than agnostic 00:27:00.619 --> 00:27:04.640 antagonistic in 1977 trade in rhino horn was 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:08.220 banned Importantly when this ban happened there 00:27:08.220 --> 00:27:10.640 was no legal framework to regulate the trade 00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:14.660 of horn 85 % of the African rhinos alive then 00:27:14.660 --> 00:27:17.460 have been killed It's easy to say that the ban 00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:20.640 has failed miserably. The U .S. must support 00:27:20.640 --> 00:27:23.200 legalizing the regulated trade of horn, and in 00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:25.200 case you didn't know, rhino horn can be removed 00:27:25.200 --> 00:27:27.500 with no negative impact to the animal, and it 00:27:27.500 --> 00:27:30.240 does grow back. My hope is that the United States 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:32.380 will stop their de facto decades -long support 00:27:32.380 --> 00:27:34.839 of the black market and open avenues for the 00:27:34.839 --> 00:27:37.640 regulated trade of horn. Nothing less than this 00:27:37.640 --> 00:27:40.299 will be sufficient to save rhino. Thank you very 00:27:40.299 --> 00:27:43.140 much for your time. Thank you for your testimony. 00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:48.539 Now I recognize Mr. Newcomer for his. Mr. Chairman, 00:27:48.819 --> 00:27:52.039 members of the committee, good afternoon. My 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:54.559 name is Ed Newcomer, and I was a special agent 00:27:54.559 --> 00:27:56.519 for the U .S. Fish and Wildlife Service for more 00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:59.900 than 20 years. I worked primarily on international 00:27:59.900 --> 00:28:02.759 wildlife trafficking cases and worked overseas 00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:05.059 for extended periods of time, including a six 00:28:05.059 --> 00:28:07.980 -month assignment in Southeast Asia and a five 00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:10.200 -year assignment as the senior U .S. Wildlife 00:28:10.200 --> 00:28:13.099 Law Enforcement official covering nine countries 00:28:13.099 --> 00:28:17.119 in southern Africa. As an agent, I successfully 00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:19.859 served under the Bush, Obama, Trump, and Biden 00:28:19.859 --> 00:28:22.759 administrations. It was under the first Trump 00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:25.079 administration that I worked with political appointees 00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:27.920 at the State Department and U .S. ambassadors 00:28:27.920 --> 00:28:31.400 to draft and implement the U .S. visa ineligibility 00:28:31.400 --> 00:28:34.579 for wildlife and timber traffickers. No other 00:28:34.579 --> 00:28:37.500 country in the world has a visa rule like that. 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:40.480 It's a tool that helps us keep foreign nationals 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:42.940 involved in wildlife trafficking out of the United 00:28:42.940 --> 00:28:46.279 States. I currently teach courses on criminal 00:28:46.279 --> 00:28:48.279 justice and administrative law at California 00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:51.779 State University at Dominguez Hills, and I serve 00:28:51.779 --> 00:28:53.799 as the international law enforcement advisor 00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:57.039 for the nonprofit organization known as Wildlife 00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:02.139 Investigators Training Alliance. International 00:29:02.139 --> 00:29:05.160 wildlife and timber trafficking is a major source 00:29:05.160 --> 00:29:07.220 of revenue for criminals around the world. It 00:29:07.220 --> 00:29:11.079 generates many billions of dollars in illegal 00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:14.920 revenue every year. The groups that control smuggling 00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:18.180 routes, they don't care what contraband flows 00:29:18.180 --> 00:29:20.859 along those routes. They only care about money. 00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:24.660 Accordingly, the same routes used to smuggle 00:29:24.660 --> 00:29:28.000 drugs, guns, and people are also used to smuggle 00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:32.269 wildlife. But our wildlife is not as renewable 00:29:32.269 --> 00:29:35.549 as we might think While criminals can cook up 00:29:35.549 --> 00:29:38.369 more methamphetamine or manufacture more guns 00:29:38.369 --> 00:29:43.509 if we allow wildlife to go extinct We can't make 00:29:43.509 --> 00:29:46.430 more rhinos. We can't make more California condors 00:29:46.430 --> 00:29:50.250 sea turtles or grizzly bears International crime 00:29:50.250 --> 00:29:53.150 in general creates a national security problems 00:29:53.150 --> 00:29:56.950 for the United States Criminal operatives corrupt 00:29:56.950 --> 00:29:59.509 law enforcement and judicial systems around the 00:29:59.509 --> 00:30:02.089 world, and this creates opportunities for US 00:30:02.089 --> 00:30:05.289 adversaries to capitalize on corrupt systems 00:30:05.289 --> 00:30:08.569 and foreign officials. While I was serving in 00:30:08.569 --> 00:30:11.809 Africa, I was made aware of a map of Chinese 00:30:11.809 --> 00:30:15.109 infrastructure projects that overlaid perfectly 00:30:15.109 --> 00:30:17.990 against a map of elephant and rhino poaching 00:30:17.990 --> 00:30:23.259 hotspots. That's no coincidence. Members of Chinese 00:30:23.259 --> 00:30:26.000 wildlife trafficking criminal groups embed themselves 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:28.640 around these infrastructure projects and arrive 00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:32.119 with briefcases full of cash. That's money that 00:30:32.119 --> 00:30:34.799 represents several years of salary for the local 00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:39.859 wildlife investigator or ranger. International 00:30:39.859 --> 00:30:42.519 wildlife trafficking also poses serious risks 00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:45.039 to the health and economic stability of the United 00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:48.980 States. Every year, smugglers bring live wild 00:30:48.980 --> 00:30:52.549 birds into the U .S. from Vietnam. These birds 00:30:52.549 --> 00:30:54.829 are frequently hidden on the smuggler's bodies 00:30:54.829 --> 00:30:57.589 while they fly inside the passenger compartments 00:30:57.589 --> 00:31:01.849 of long -haul commercial flights. The most virulent 00:31:01.849 --> 00:31:04.750 strain of bird flu happens to come from wild 00:31:04.750 --> 00:31:07.849 birds in Vietnam, and it kills about 50 % of 00:31:07.849 --> 00:31:12.210 the humans who contract it. Imagine the consequences 00:31:12.210 --> 00:31:15.470 if that strain makes one small mutation that 00:31:15.470 --> 00:31:17.970 allows it to easily jump from human to human 00:31:17.970 --> 00:31:22.480 while maintaining that lethality. The highest 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:26.220 death rate during the COVID pandemic was 3%. 00:31:26.220 --> 00:31:28.640 I got to be honest, I lay awake at night wondering 00:31:28.640 --> 00:31:31.200 what will happen to this country if an easily 00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:34.359 transmissible high mortality variant of bird 00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:38.440 flu arrives on an airplane. There are other zoonotic 00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:40.539 diseases that have an impact on our national 00:31:40.539 --> 00:31:44.279 security. Newcastle's disease infects domestic 00:31:44.279 --> 00:31:47.220 poultry and comes from wild birds like parrots. 00:31:47.740 --> 00:31:51.019 We know that an outbreak of Newcastle's disease 00:31:51.019 --> 00:31:54.000 in Southern California during the early 2000s 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:56.440 originated from wild parrots smuggled into the 00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:59.859 U .S. from Mexico. That outbreak resulted in 00:31:59.859 --> 00:32:02.220 the destruction of more than 3 million chickens 00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:05.059 and economic damages approaching $300 million. 00:32:05.740 --> 00:32:08.539 It literally put farmers out of business and 00:32:08.539 --> 00:32:11.140 raised prices for Americans at the grocery store. 00:32:12.900 --> 00:32:14.640 Combating international wildlife trafficking 00:32:14.640 --> 00:32:17.160 requires strong international relationships. 00:32:17.990 --> 00:32:20.549 Cooperation is really the best way to put America 00:32:20.549 --> 00:32:24.269 first. In Africa, I helped capture three major 00:32:24.269 --> 00:32:27.289 wildlife traffickers in Botswana, Malawi, and 00:32:27.289 --> 00:32:30.410 South Africa. That was only possible because 00:32:30.410 --> 00:32:33.230 of the strong, trusted, and mutual relationships 00:32:33.230 --> 00:32:36.950 the U .S. had with those countries. I'm very 00:32:36.950 --> 00:32:40.369 concerned that the chronic underfunding and understaffing 00:32:40.369 --> 00:32:42.490 at U .S. Fish and Wildlife Service law enforcement 00:32:42.490 --> 00:32:45.470 and generally the dismantling of U .S. government 00:32:45.470 --> 00:32:48.420 agencies is putting us at a real disadvantage 00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:50.720 when it comes to combating international wildlife 00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:54.539 trafficking. I love this committee's motto, putting 00:32:54.539 --> 00:32:56.980 conservation or putting conservatives back into 00:32:56.980 --> 00:32:59.720 conservation. There's no question that traditional 00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:02.160 conservative values are consistent with preserving 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:04.819 our natural resources. Thank you very much. I 00:33:04.819 --> 00:33:06.500 look forward to hearing any questions you have. 00:33:13.150 --> 00:33:15.470 Chairman Gosir, Ranking Member Dexter, and distinguished 00:33:15.470 --> 00:33:17.309 members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity 00:33:17.309 --> 00:33:20.250 to testify on this important topic. I serve as 00:33:20.250 --> 00:33:22.410 executive director of the Hawaii Long Line Association, 00:33:22.549 --> 00:33:25.549 representing 150 U .S. flagged Hawaii -based 00:33:25.549 --> 00:33:28.509 vessels targeting tuna and swordfish. The Hawaii 00:33:28.509 --> 00:33:30.470 Long Line fleet is a major fishery in the United 00:33:30.470 --> 00:33:32.269 States and we're the largest food producer in 00:33:32.269 --> 00:33:35.170 the state of Hawaii. Annual landings exceed 30 00:33:35.170 --> 00:33:37.329 million pounds with a dockside value of roughly 00:33:37.329 --> 00:33:41.200 120 million. The landed value of the Hawaii longline 00:33:41.200 --> 00:33:43.319 fleet consistently ranks Honolulu Harbor within 00:33:43.319 --> 00:33:46.039 the nation's top seven ports in terms of fisheries 00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:49.359 economic value. Around 80 % of our fishing efforts 00:33:49.359 --> 00:33:51.880 on the high seas amongst foreign competition. 00:33:52.500 --> 00:33:55.460 We also face daily competition in the U .S. market 00:33:55.460 --> 00:33:59.119 from foreign seafood imports. And most of the 00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:01.519 seafood comes from fleets that are heavily subsidized, 00:34:01.700 --> 00:34:04.420 poorly monitored, and subject to minimal environmental 00:34:04.420 --> 00:34:07.589 laws and enforcement. By contrast, U .S. fisheries 00:34:07.589 --> 00:34:09.389 operate under the some of the most stringent 00:34:09.389 --> 00:34:12.210 regulatory frameworks in the world and is unmatched 00:34:12.210 --> 00:34:14.789 in terms of monitoring and enforcement. This 00:34:14.789 --> 00:34:16.869 makes the United States a global leader in marine 00:34:16.869 --> 00:34:20.809 conservation, protection, and management. Despite 00:34:20.809 --> 00:34:23.849 this leadership, USC producers have lost or continue 00:34:23.849 --> 00:34:27.409 to lose serious ground in the U .S. market. Imports 00:34:27.409 --> 00:34:31.349 often 30 to 50 percent or more cheaper are displacing 00:34:31.349 --> 00:34:34.329 domestic products across nearly every major fishery. 00:34:34.699 --> 00:34:38.280 NOAA reports that 70 to 85 % of seafood consumed 00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:42.219 in the U .S. is imported. In 2023, imported seafood 00:34:42.219 --> 00:34:45.960 totaled $25 .5 billion, contributing to a seafood 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:49.500 trade deficit exceeding $20 billion. Over the 00:34:49.500 --> 00:34:51.659 last 30 years, the inflation -adjusted value 00:34:51.659 --> 00:34:53.840 of foreign imports in the United States has increased 00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:57.469 by 130%. Foreign producers benefit from lower 00:34:57.469 --> 00:35:00.010 labor costs, government subsidies, weaker environmental 00:35:00.010 --> 00:35:02.710 standards, and cheaper processing, advantages 00:35:02.710 --> 00:35:06.369 US fishermen do not have. It's estimated that 00:35:06.369 --> 00:35:09.070 15 % of wild -caught seafood imported in the 00:35:09.070 --> 00:35:12.289 United States comes from IAU fisheries. And IAU 00:35:12.289 --> 00:35:14.489 fishing includes transnational criminal networks, 00:35:14.769 --> 00:35:17.650 human trafficking and forced labor, state -sponsored 00:35:17.650 --> 00:35:21.170 unregulated fleets, underreported by licensed 00:35:21.170 --> 00:35:23.869 vessels, and harvests of endangered or protected 00:35:23.869 --> 00:35:27.050 species. IAU fishing undermines conservation 00:35:27.050 --> 00:35:29.570 efforts, distorts markets, threatens food safety, 00:35:29.849 --> 00:35:33.110 and harms workers. Preventing IAU -associated 00:35:33.110 --> 00:35:34.789 seafood from entering the United States market 00:35:34.789 --> 00:35:36.730 is essential for national security and marine 00:35:36.730 --> 00:35:39.909 conservation, economic fairness, and consumer 00:35:39.909 --> 00:35:42.429 protection. The United States seafood market 00:35:42.429 --> 00:35:44.929 is among the world's largest. As such, the United 00:35:44.929 --> 00:35:47.469 States government has a tremendous ability to 00:35:47.469 --> 00:35:49.829 level the playing field between domestic fisheries 00:35:49.829 --> 00:35:52.329 and international fleets through the power of 00:35:52.329 --> 00:35:55.440 market access. For example, the Marine Mammal 00:35:55.440 --> 00:35:57.659 Protection Act import provisions give the United 00:35:57.659 --> 00:35:59.980 States a powerful tool to level the playing field. 00:36:00.579 --> 00:36:02.519 However, after nearly 50 years on the books, 00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:04.360 the National Marine Fisheries Service issued 00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:06.860 its first foreign fishery determinations just 00:36:06.860 --> 00:36:10.699 last year in September. Of 2 ,500 assessed fisheries 00:36:10.699 --> 00:36:14.500 from 46 countries, only 9 % were found to be 00:36:14.500 --> 00:36:17.440 not comparable to U .S. Marine Mammal Protection 00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:20.099 Standards. Most industrial fleets, including 00:36:20.099 --> 00:36:23.019 China's, received passing grades. This was a 00:36:23.019 --> 00:36:25.039 missed opportunity to hold foreign fleets the 00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:27.840 same standards required of U .S. fishermen. China 00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:29.920 is the world's largest fishing nation, and its 00:36:29.920 --> 00:36:32.699 global fisheries reach is unmatched. Chinese 00:36:32.699 --> 00:36:34.860 fishing vessels fish in all of the world's ocean 00:36:34.860 --> 00:36:37.960 and the exclusive economic zones of 90 countries. 00:36:38.679 --> 00:36:41.039 China's fishing footprint and influence has grown 00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:43.460 tremendously in the U .S. or in the Pacific Islands 00:36:43.460 --> 00:36:46.860 region. And for example, Chinese flag tuna vessels 00:36:46.860 --> 00:36:49.579 operate in the EEZs of the Federated States of 00:36:49.579 --> 00:36:52.179 Micronesia. and the Republican Marshall Islands, 00:36:52.460 --> 00:36:54.739 both former U .S. trust territories and current 00:36:54.739 --> 00:36:58.000 COFA states. Chinese flag vessels offload to 00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:00.260 Chinese -owned processing and Chinese -owned 00:37:00.260 --> 00:37:02.980 distribution companies that ship fresh daily 00:37:02.980 --> 00:37:06.000 into the United States. China also maintains 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.699 close ties with Kiribati, Hawaii's nearest foreign 00:37:08.699 --> 00:37:11.880 neighbor. The Kiribati Line Islands lie roughly 00:37:11.880 --> 00:37:14.460 a thousand miles to the south of Pearl Harbor, 00:37:14.820 --> 00:37:17.719 and China's growing presence there raises geopolitical 00:37:17.719 --> 00:37:20.929 and IAU -related concerns. China's distant water 00:37:20.929 --> 00:37:22.949 fleet is not monitored in international standards 00:37:22.949 --> 00:37:25.789 and its reporting is widely viewed as unreliable 00:37:25.789 --> 00:37:28.170 and multiple investigations have documented forced 00:37:28.170 --> 00:37:31.969 labor in their supply chain. No doubt seafood 00:37:31.969 --> 00:37:35.269 supply chains are complex and opaque. A single 00:37:35.269 --> 00:37:37.250 fish may be caught from a vessel from country 00:37:37.250 --> 00:37:40.389 A and waters of country B, trans shipped at sea 00:37:40.389 --> 00:37:43.429 from a vessel from country C and then processed 00:37:43.429 --> 00:37:46.610 in a country D and then imported into the United 00:37:46.610 --> 00:37:49.260 States. Certainly, there are actions the United 00:37:49.260 --> 00:37:51.559 States could take, such as restricting imports 00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:53.780 that fail to meet U .S. standards, strengthening 00:37:53.780 --> 00:37:56.719 international engagement through RFMOs, eliminating 00:37:56.719 --> 00:37:59.860 harmful foreign subsidies, implementing electronic 00:37:59.860 --> 00:38:02.320 supply chain tracking that requires NOAA import 00:38:02.320 --> 00:38:05.159 seafood import monitoring program for all species, 00:38:05.780 --> 00:38:08.000 as well as expanding country of origin labeling 00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:12.889 to restaurants. Benefits from these actions will 00:38:12.889 --> 00:38:15.070 be strengthening ocean conservation, supporting 00:38:15.070 --> 00:38:17.449 long -term viability of American fisheries, and 00:38:17.449 --> 00:38:21.449 protecting U .S. consumers. Thank you. Members 00:38:21.449 --> 00:38:25.309 for their questions. I start with Mr. Begich, 00:38:25.849 --> 00:38:29.250 the gentleman from Alaska. Thank you, Mr. Chair. 00:38:29.449 --> 00:38:34.170 I'll start with you, Dr. Kingma. I represent 00:38:34.170 --> 00:38:37.340 Alaska. where commercial fishing is our largest 00:38:37.340 --> 00:38:39.219 private employer and our fishermen are among 00:38:39.219 --> 00:38:42.280 the most regulated in the world. Yet cheap foreign 00:38:42.280 --> 00:38:45.400 imports devastate prices for Alaska salmon, pollock, 00:38:45.559 --> 00:38:49.760 crab, and other species. You note NOAA gave China's 00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:53.619 fleet a passing grade under MMPA import provisions. 00:38:54.199 --> 00:38:57.300 How was that possible given China's documented 00:38:57.300 --> 00:39:00.340 IUU practices and what should Congress do in 00:39:00.340 --> 00:39:03.360 your view to ensure those provisions protect 00:39:03.360 --> 00:39:06.800 American fishermen? Thank you very much for the 00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:09.380 question, Congressman. And Hawaii certainly shares 00:39:09.380 --> 00:39:11.599 a lot of the same concerns with Alaska and the 00:39:11.599 --> 00:39:14.980 importance of fisheries to our state. We were 00:39:14.980 --> 00:39:17.980 highly surprised to find that NOAA made those 00:39:17.980 --> 00:39:20.679 comparability findings for China. And I think 00:39:20.679 --> 00:39:25.320 one remedy might be that Congress directs the 00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:27.980 National Marine Fisheries Service to immediately 00:39:27.980 --> 00:39:31.820 investigate those determinations again and quickly, 00:39:31.820 --> 00:39:34.699 because we don't necessarily believe they... 00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:38.059 They made the right call there. Thank you. A 00:39:38.059 --> 00:39:40.119 follow -up question. You noted that 70 % to 85 00:39:40.119 --> 00:39:42.579 % of U .S. seafood is imported with an estimated 00:39:42.579 --> 00:39:47.179 15 % from IUU fisheries. Alaska's invested heavily 00:39:47.179 --> 00:39:50.099 in traceability because we can compete on quality 00:39:50.099 --> 00:39:52.900 when consumers have accurate information. How 00:39:52.900 --> 00:39:55.320 would expanding the seafood import monitoring 00:39:55.320 --> 00:39:58.719 program and requiring country of origin labeling 00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:02.159 for restaurants benefit fishing communities in 00:40:02.159 --> 00:40:05.420 Alaska and Hawaii? Yeah, thanks for the question. 00:40:06.739 --> 00:40:08.940 I think country of origin labeling is a critical 00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:12.380 issue for American seafood producers. And like 00:40:12.380 --> 00:40:14.500 I said, most of the imports, as you mentioned, 00:40:14.860 --> 00:40:19.380 are from foreign sources. Currently, the National 00:40:19.380 --> 00:40:22.360 Marine Fisheries Service Seafood Import Monitoring 00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:25.780 Program only covers, I believe, 13 species. So 00:40:25.780 --> 00:40:28.179 it doesn't cover all species imported in the 00:40:28.179 --> 00:40:30.599 United States. So that's a start. It does cover 00:40:30.599 --> 00:40:32.719 most of the imports, but not all. And I think 00:40:32.719 --> 00:40:38.579 there's some differences in how seafood imports 00:40:38.579 --> 00:40:41.679 are coming in the United States with what Harmonite 00:40:41.679 --> 00:40:44.139 tariff number or schedule and how they're actually 00:40:44.139 --> 00:40:48.500 being certified and entering in. So there could 00:40:48.500 --> 00:40:52.639 be some improvements. in the certification or 00:40:52.639 --> 00:40:55.139 supply chain tracking in the United States, including 00:40:55.139 --> 00:40:59.639 digitizing those supply chains like the EU has 00:40:59.639 --> 00:41:02.280 just done for their seafood imports. So there 00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:05.900 could be major steps taken there. And then country 00:41:05.900 --> 00:41:09.559 of origin for restaurants currently only applies 00:41:09.559 --> 00:41:15.079 to retail. So say Alaska salmon filet has the 00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:19.369 origin. But then once that product is, and only, 00:41:19.570 --> 00:41:22.150 like I said, is maintained for retail, but not 00:41:22.150 --> 00:41:25.769 restaurants. And most seafood is actually consumed 00:41:25.769 --> 00:41:28.030 in restaurants. And so you really don't know 00:41:28.030 --> 00:41:30.829 what you're getting. So I do think there could 00:41:30.829 --> 00:41:34.329 be a lot of room for improvement for consumers 00:41:34.329 --> 00:41:36.590 to understand and make the choice of where they 00:41:36.590 --> 00:41:39.789 want to buy their seafood and where it comes 00:41:39.789 --> 00:41:46.940 from. Thank you. Dr. Ellis, you mentioned Illegal 00:41:46.940 --> 00:41:50.500 mining, in your opening remarks. Illegal mining 00:41:50.500 --> 00:41:53.260 denies citizens of other nations the benefit 00:41:53.260 --> 00:41:56.960 of mineral wealth, it funds illicit criminal 00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:59.440 activities, and of course it destroys the environment. 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:07.980 What do we need to do to end this practice? Specifically, 00:42:08.460 --> 00:42:12.000 you need a series of controls in part to... What 00:42:12.000 --> 00:42:15.610 actions would you recommend Congress take? I 00:42:15.610 --> 00:42:18.750 think specifically, number one, a emphasis on 00:42:18.750 --> 00:42:21.690 increased law enforcement collaboration, as well 00:42:21.690 --> 00:42:23.949 as the strengthening of relevant institutions 00:42:23.949 --> 00:42:25.849 of our local partners. I'll give you an example. 00:42:26.510 --> 00:42:29.250 Peru's control over what comes out of mines is 00:42:29.250 --> 00:42:31.449 relatively good relative to Bolivia. We have 00:42:31.449 --> 00:42:33.210 an opportunity with the new Bolivian government 00:42:33.210 --> 00:42:35.329 of Rodrigo Paz now, who is very willing to cooperate 00:42:35.329 --> 00:42:37.929 with the United States. But there is a need for 00:42:37.929 --> 00:42:40.750 strengthening oversight of oftentimes gold, which 00:42:40.750 --> 00:42:42.969 is illegally mined in places like Madrid de los 00:42:42.969 --> 00:42:45.300 Peru, but is laundered through. Bolivian minds. 00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:47.920 I think working more closely with the Bolivians, 00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:50.579 as well as having expanded traceability, much 00:42:50.579 --> 00:42:53.360 like you have with, you know, African conflict 00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:55.579 diamonds and things like that could help to do 00:42:55.579 --> 00:42:57.920 that. And that certainly also applies in places 00:42:57.920 --> 00:43:00.099 like the interior of Suriname, the interior of 00:43:00.099 --> 00:43:02.860 Guyana, the interior of Columbia, where, again, 00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:04.800 it's not just about the drugs, although it's 00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:07.719 certainly about that. It's about, and the Fajardo 00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:09.940 Orinoco, the Orinoco Belt in Venezuela, where 00:43:09.940 --> 00:43:12.840 we have, you know, new leverage over the current 00:43:12.840 --> 00:43:14.429 government is probably another place where we 00:43:14.429 --> 00:43:17.590 can increase those controls. Thank you very much. 00:43:18.809 --> 00:43:20.829 I notice that my time is about to expire. I have 00:43:20.829 --> 00:43:23.929 so many more questions, but I appreciate everyone's 00:43:23.929 --> 00:43:26.130 testimony and participation in today's hearing. 00:43:26.530 --> 00:43:28.590 And with that, I yield back. I thank the gentleman. 00:43:28.789 --> 00:43:30.510 The gentleman from Illinois, Mr. Quigley, is 00:43:30.510 --> 00:43:33.570 now recognized for his five minutes. Thank you, 00:43:33.650 --> 00:43:36.869 Chairman. I appreciate the accommodation. I waved 00:43:36.869 --> 00:43:38.909 on to this hearing because I'm a co -chair of 00:43:38.909 --> 00:43:41.380 the Animal Protection Caucus. and have several 00:43:41.380 --> 00:43:45.559 bills related to this topic, Wildlife Confiscations 00:43:45.559 --> 00:43:48.659 Network Act and the Captive Primate Safety Act. 00:43:50.099 --> 00:43:52.860 Mr. Newcomer, let me ask you, we've seen a disturbing 00:43:52.860 --> 00:43:55.880 number of stories about the smuggling of spider 00:43:55.880 --> 00:43:59.139 monkey babies across the southern border from 00:43:59.139 --> 00:44:04.650 23 to 25. 109 baby spider monkeys were confiscated 00:44:04.650 --> 00:44:07.349 at the U .S.-Mexico border. And the U .S. Fish 00:44:07.349 --> 00:44:10.309 and Wildlife officials say that's only a fraction. 00:44:11.550 --> 00:44:14.710 What's the driving factors for this particular 00:44:14.710 --> 00:44:19.250 trade? And what's the process? Are we succeeding 00:44:19.250 --> 00:44:24.550 in getting those confiscated wildlife animals 00:44:24.550 --> 00:44:30.590 into accredited care facilities? So the really 00:44:30.590 --> 00:44:33.469 tragic thing about the spider monkey trade is 00:44:33.469 --> 00:44:35.909 that it really comes down to the fact that they're 00:44:35.909 --> 00:44:39.590 cute. And what's really driving that trade is 00:44:39.590 --> 00:44:42.530 that it's social media and the ability to use 00:44:42.530 --> 00:44:45.949 the internet to buy and sell and offer to sell 00:44:45.949 --> 00:44:52.079 exotic animals very easily. If any of us picked 00:44:52.079 --> 00:44:54.440 up our phones right now and just went to Instagram 00:44:54.440 --> 00:44:57.539 and searched monkey or baby monkey, we would 00:44:57.539 --> 00:45:00.820 find hundreds, hundreds of videos of baby spider 00:45:00.820 --> 00:45:03.760 monkeys wearing diapers, wearing clothes, looking 00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:06.619 very friendly and dancing around. And every time 00:45:06.619 --> 00:45:09.880 one of those ads or one of those posts gets on 00:45:09.880 --> 00:45:13.480 social media, it creates demand. And people say, 00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:17.280 gosh, I want a baby spider monkey. And that drives 00:45:17.280 --> 00:45:21.190 the trade. And that allows, once people start 00:45:21.190 --> 00:45:23.530 going out and looking for it, it allows the poachers 00:45:23.530 --> 00:45:27.230 to find a market very easily. There was a recent, 00:45:28.210 --> 00:45:30.789 I think it was a CBS News report that demonstrated 00:45:30.789 --> 00:45:34.610 just how easy it is to get a spider monkey. A 00:45:34.610 --> 00:45:37.309 reporter in Texas just made a few inquiries using 00:45:37.309 --> 00:45:39.630 social media. And before she knew it, she was 00:45:39.630 --> 00:45:42.610 meeting at Home Depot parking lots, actually 00:45:42.610 --> 00:45:46.000 having baby spider monkeys offered to her. Now 00:45:46.000 --> 00:45:48.599 as to your second part of your question, for 00:45:48.599 --> 00:45:50.860 years the U .S. Fish and Wildlife Service has 00:45:50.860 --> 00:45:53.840 struggled with how to place live exotic animals. 00:45:54.280 --> 00:45:56.380 We're unique in law enforcement and then our 00:45:56.380 --> 00:45:59.739 evidence that we see is often has to be fed and 00:45:59.739 --> 00:46:02.159 cared for. We can't just put it in an evidence 00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:05.730 locker if it's a live animal. During my career, 00:46:05.869 --> 00:46:07.969 there were many occasions where I arrested somebody 00:46:07.969 --> 00:46:11.250 at the airport at 11 o 'clock, 12 o 'clock at 00:46:11.250 --> 00:46:13.590 night with a live animal strapped to their body. 00:46:13.750 --> 00:46:16.170 I now have to take that person to jail. But when 00:46:16.170 --> 00:46:18.550 that's over, I have to figure out how to feed 00:46:18.550 --> 00:46:22.369 this animal and how to care for it. And in the 00:46:22.369 --> 00:46:25.030 past, it was really just individual agents and 00:46:25.030 --> 00:46:27.630 wildlife inspectors who knew somebody at a zoo 00:46:27.630 --> 00:46:30.090 or knew a wildlife rehabilitator that they could 00:46:30.090 --> 00:46:32.090 call at 2 in the morning and say, hey, can you 00:46:32.090 --> 00:46:36.699 help me? There's been a recent move to develop 00:46:36.699 --> 00:46:40.639 the Wildlife Confiscation Network, a live wildlife 00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:44.099 confiscation network, and that has been incredibly 00:46:44.099 --> 00:46:46.059 helpful to U .S. Fish and Wildlife Service law 00:46:46.059 --> 00:46:49.670 enforcement. It's a network that basically has 00:46:49.670 --> 00:46:52.570 other people who are already connected in and 00:46:52.570 --> 00:46:56.289 with numbers and call trees. So that if an animal 00:46:56.289 --> 00:46:59.630 comes in to say LAX, whether it's a monkey or 00:46:59.630 --> 00:47:03.429 a snake or whatever, and it's confiscated, the 00:47:03.429 --> 00:47:05.710 US Fish and Wildlife Service agent or wildlife 00:47:05.710 --> 00:47:09.050 inspector simply has to make a call to the wildlife 00:47:09.050 --> 00:47:12.570 confiscation network coordinator. And I appreciate 00:47:12.570 --> 00:47:15.289 that, given the short time. I don't mean to cut 00:47:15.289 --> 00:47:18.880 you off, but And I was at Born Free in South 00:47:18.880 --> 00:47:22.940 Texas. Do you think the word is out there about 00:47:22.940 --> 00:47:26.380 the concerns for the proximity, the health issues 00:47:26.380 --> 00:47:31.380 of these primates having close contact with humans? 00:47:32.059 --> 00:47:34.239 I mean, are we trying to educate the public on 00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:37.099 that as well? That's a real concern and a real 00:47:37.099 --> 00:47:39.539 issue. I don't think the public realizes just 00:47:39.539 --> 00:47:42.519 how dangerous a primate can be, whether it's 00:47:42.519 --> 00:47:44.300 a disease or not. But once that primate gets 00:47:44.300 --> 00:47:47.329 older, they bite and they scratch and that those 00:47:47.329 --> 00:47:50.030 scratches can cause serious diseases in humans. 00:47:51.010 --> 00:47:53.590 The sad thing is that a lot of these primates 00:47:53.590 --> 00:47:56.050 as they get older they will have their canine 00:47:56.050 --> 00:48:00.070 teeth removed so that they can't bite and that 00:48:00.070 --> 00:48:02.110 you know that's a horrible thing to do to an 00:48:02.110 --> 00:48:04.650 animal that relies on its teeth as part of its 00:48:04.650 --> 00:48:07.369 just day -to -day living. Can you some of the 00:48:07.369 --> 00:48:09.809 other health issues that come from primates that 00:48:09.809 --> 00:48:13.190 you could list now? disease issues? Yeah, because 00:48:13.190 --> 00:48:15.469 they're primates. Just about every disease that 00:48:15.469 --> 00:48:17.550 humans can get, primates can get. So it could 00:48:17.550 --> 00:48:21.030 be anything from drug -resistant tuberculosis. 00:48:22.909 --> 00:48:25.829 Herpes can be spread through primates. Of course, 00:48:25.929 --> 00:48:28.349 Ebola. There's all kinds of nasty things that 00:48:28.349 --> 00:48:30.650 people can get from primates. We appreciate your 00:48:30.650 --> 00:48:32.690 work. I appreciate the entire panel and their 00:48:32.690 --> 00:48:35.519 service. Thank you. And I truly appreciate the 00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:37.320 accommodation. Thank you so much. Thank you for 00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:39.780 the interest. And the gentleman from Mississippi, 00:48:40.239 --> 00:48:42.539 Mr. Rizel, let's recognize for his offense. Thank 00:48:42.539 --> 00:48:45.460 you, Mr. Chairman. Before I get into my questions, 00:48:46.039 --> 00:48:48.960 Mr. Newcomer, I just want to thank you for what 00:48:48.960 --> 00:48:51.880 you've done. I spent my entire life as a local, 00:48:52.119 --> 00:48:54.679 federal, and state police officer before coming 00:48:54.679 --> 00:48:57.340 to the Congress. And I too have had many times 00:48:57.340 --> 00:48:59.119 where at 2 o 'clock in the morning, we had to 00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:02.079 figure out something to get something to somebody. 00:49:02.779 --> 00:49:05.460 And so usually you looked on one of your fellow 00:49:05.460 --> 00:49:07.940 members on the ship to, hey, do you know somebody 00:49:07.940 --> 00:49:10.480 we can take this animal to or whatever it was? 00:49:11.820 --> 00:49:14.260 I'd like to submit for the record some questions 00:49:14.260 --> 00:49:17.460 that I will have for you later on, because I 00:49:17.460 --> 00:49:19.000 sure would like to talk to you some more about 00:49:19.000 --> 00:49:21.320 funding and about some different things that 00:49:21.320 --> 00:49:24.539 we could do together that I could help support 00:49:24.539 --> 00:49:27.260 the former mission that you had and now the mission 00:49:27.260 --> 00:49:30.000 that you do have. But thank you, Mr. Chairman, 00:49:30.059 --> 00:49:32.420 and thank you. all of you for being here today 00:49:32.420 --> 00:49:35.079 and giving us such good information. Thank you 00:49:35.079 --> 00:49:40.019 very much. In a coastal district like mine, shrimping 00:49:40.019 --> 00:49:42.639 is not just a talking point, it's an economic 00:49:42.639 --> 00:49:45.800 reality in a way of life. Family -owned fishing 00:49:45.800 --> 00:49:48.300 boats, shrimpers, and small processors are in 00:49:48.300 --> 00:49:51.559 the communities and depend on fair access to 00:49:51.559 --> 00:49:54.539 the marketplace to survive. Right now, these 00:49:54.539 --> 00:49:58.030 producers are being squeezed out. Not by better 00:49:58.030 --> 00:50:00.349 products or practices, but by foreign shrimp 00:50:00.349 --> 00:50:04.969 entering our market prices at no price a good 00:50:04.969 --> 00:50:08.849 American would even consider could match That 00:50:08.849 --> 00:50:11.230 price gap is it's not an accident. It's driven 00:50:11.230 --> 00:50:14.670 by dumping government support and serious allegations 00:50:14.670 --> 00:50:19.409 of labor abuse abroad when shrimp Produced under 00:50:19.409 --> 00:50:21.829 these conditions is allowed into the US market. 00:50:21.829 --> 00:50:25.449 It doesn't just harm domestic producers is distorts 00:50:25.449 --> 00:50:28.960 the entire system It rewards bad actors, drives 00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:31.440 down prices, and makes it nearly impossible for 00:50:31.440 --> 00:50:34.219 U .S. shrimpers to even break even. I had them 00:50:34.219 --> 00:50:36.179 calling me last year. By the time they filled 00:50:36.179 --> 00:50:40.440 up with fuel and ice and deckhands and work, 00:50:41.380 --> 00:50:43.400 they were behind. They were going to lose money. 00:50:43.980 --> 00:50:45.800 American shrimpers are not... We're not asking 00:50:45.800 --> 00:50:48.099 for special treatment. We're asking for a level 00:50:48.099 --> 00:50:52.739 playing field. And once we get to that and get 00:50:52.739 --> 00:50:56.090 through with this... the forced labor that we've 00:50:56.090 --> 00:50:58.329 seen from the Chinese, environmental abuse, and 00:50:58.329 --> 00:51:01.789 some of these unfair trade practices. We want 00:51:01.789 --> 00:51:04.329 to take care of our local folks, and that's what 00:51:04.329 --> 00:51:08.530 I'm here for, to try to do that. Dr. King, I 00:51:08.530 --> 00:51:11.489 got a few questions for you regarding our illegal 00:51:11.489 --> 00:51:15.670 and unreported and unregulated fishing. If unfair 00:51:15.670 --> 00:51:18.449 imports continue to go unchecked, what's the 00:51:18.449 --> 00:51:21.489 future look like for domestic shrimp in our communities? 00:51:23.460 --> 00:51:25.820 Thank you, Carl, for the question. I think you 00:51:25.820 --> 00:51:30.619 can replace, you know, Gulf shrimp with every 00:51:30.619 --> 00:51:33.940 single major U .S. fishery in those remarks. 00:51:34.539 --> 00:51:38.460 We are losing, and we're losing rapidly. The 00:51:38.460 --> 00:51:42.199 same case for Hawaii, Alaska fisheries, East 00:51:42.199 --> 00:51:46.610 Coast, Gulf, you name it, West Coast. The U .S. 00:51:46.909 --> 00:51:49.570 market is huge and it's powerful. So we have 00:51:49.570 --> 00:51:52.469 to use the accessibility to the U .S. market 00:51:52.469 --> 00:51:55.650 to support domestic fishermen and level that 00:51:55.650 --> 00:51:59.230 playing field. So somehow certainly restricting 00:51:59.230 --> 00:52:02.630 imports that are subsidized, that are from IUU 00:52:02.630 --> 00:52:06.289 is the immediate start. And then also on the 00:52:06.289 --> 00:52:08.690 regulatory aspect, leveling the playing field 00:52:08.690 --> 00:52:11.050 from the regulatory frameworks that we're subject 00:52:11.050 --> 00:52:13.840 to. those should also be applied to foreign fisheries. 00:52:13.860 --> 00:52:16.920 And in doing so, you support marine conservation 00:52:16.920 --> 00:52:19.420 and you support U .S. domestic fishermen. Thank 00:52:19.420 --> 00:52:22.800 you. Would you agree that allowing imports produced 00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:25.559 with forced labor in the United States market 00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:28.239 directly undermines American workers and lawful 00:52:28.239 --> 00:52:32.659 business? Yes, 100 percent. What policy recommendations 00:52:32.659 --> 00:52:35.920 do you have to curb the importations of shrimp 00:52:35.920 --> 00:52:39.679 so our shrimpers can fairly compete? Yeah, I 00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:43.000 think it's Like I said, ensuring that the imports 00:52:43.000 --> 00:52:45.219 that are coming in meet U .S. standards. And 00:52:45.219 --> 00:52:46.920 in meeting U .S. standards, we have to figure 00:52:46.920 --> 00:52:49.780 out how that fishery product is produced. And 00:52:49.780 --> 00:52:52.559 if it's produced with forced labor, it has no 00:52:52.559 --> 00:52:55.460 business being in the United States. Also, if 00:52:55.460 --> 00:52:57.980 it's subsidized and if they don't follow U .S. 00:52:58.280 --> 00:53:00.239 environmental standards, like Marine Mammal Protection 00:53:00.239 --> 00:53:02.699 Act, it has no business being in the United States. 00:53:03.179 --> 00:53:05.800 Thank you. And I look forward to continuing this 00:53:05.800 --> 00:53:07.900 conversation. And Mr. Chairman, I yield back. 00:53:09.159 --> 00:53:10.880 Thank you, gentlemen from Mississippi. I'm now 00:53:10.880 --> 00:53:12.599 going to go a little out of order. I'm going 00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:16.940 to go next. I've got votes clinging across the 00:53:16.940 --> 00:53:24.380 campus here. So Mr. Newcomer, you could spend 00:53:24.380 --> 00:53:26.139 all the money you want to with law enforcement, 00:53:26.219 --> 00:53:27.920 but you have to have compliance or help from 00:53:27.920 --> 00:53:30.139 the public. Would you say that would be the case? 00:53:30.900 --> 00:53:32.559 I'm sorry. I missed the very first part of your 00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:34.380 question. So you have all the enforcement you 00:53:34.380 --> 00:53:36.599 want, but you need to get help from the public, 00:53:36.780 --> 00:53:39.179 do you not? Yeah, absolutely. So if you were 00:53:39.179 --> 00:53:43.000 to empower the average citizen to be part of 00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:45.400 the situation where they start looking out for 00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:49.079 animals and really will talk and tell You can 00:53:49.079 --> 00:53:52.219 be a real big impact to that. Could you not? 00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:56.260 Yeah, I think if you if you empowered the average 00:53:56.260 --> 00:53:58.340 citizens Excuse me average citizen that yeah, 00:53:58.340 --> 00:54:00.559 you could make a house if you were to make your 00:54:00.559 --> 00:54:04.360 success model they the elimination of these animals 00:54:04.360 --> 00:54:08.360 being transported and trafficked You can make 00:54:08.360 --> 00:54:10.840 that part of the civilization to that would increase 00:54:10.840 --> 00:54:14.980 money, right? And I say in a fund where I'm going 00:54:14.980 --> 00:54:17.679 with this is I have a bill Okay, it's called 00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:19.820 the lasso act and what it basically does is it 00:54:19.820 --> 00:54:22.360 takes all the revenues coming off of public lands 00:54:22.360 --> 00:54:26.260 and turns it over to Social Security Well, but 00:54:26.260 --> 00:54:28.139 that's gonna do now. You've got an interest in 00:54:28.139 --> 00:54:31.280 that So now you're gonna be investing your time 00:54:31.280 --> 00:54:32.960 and energy if you see something illegal coming 00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:35.960 up Because that takes away from your benefit 00:54:35.960 --> 00:54:39.530 from the public lands Would you agree? Well, 00:54:39.929 --> 00:54:45.170 I've made qualified agreement. I think that sometimes 00:54:45.170 --> 00:54:49.590 there's a fine line that can't be crossed where 00:54:49.590 --> 00:54:53.989 it actually creates a mechanism for laundering. 00:54:54.389 --> 00:54:58.090 And sometimes if there's a legal way to deal 00:54:58.090 --> 00:55:00.449 with wildlife, it creates the perfect opportunity 00:55:00.449 --> 00:55:05.320 to hide illegal wildlife transactions. I understand 00:55:05.320 --> 00:55:08.119 what you're saying for sure. And, you know, my 00:55:08.119 --> 00:55:10.380 gut instinct is to say, yeah, you're right. But 00:55:10.380 --> 00:55:12.960 then I remember cases that I worked on where 00:55:12.960 --> 00:55:18.119 people actually hid illegal wildlife in a legal 00:55:18.119 --> 00:55:20.800 mechanism. Gotcha. I like, for the record, I 00:55:20.800 --> 00:55:23.260 like to put in the record all these little different 00:55:23.260 --> 00:55:26.019 hits that were to pick up on the border just 00:55:26.019 --> 00:55:28.739 in Arizona for different years. I mean, parrots 00:55:28.739 --> 00:55:31.539 to bladders. You can't believe it's in this thing. 00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:37.840 So if I saw or... Done. Mr. Venavates, hunting 00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:41.179 has played a big role in big animals, particularly. 00:55:42.039 --> 00:55:44.039 How could it help us with these small animals? 00:55:46.500 --> 00:55:49.059 Hunting, typically, when you see the people that 00:55:49.059 --> 00:55:51.239 are on the forefront of conservation, they are 00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:53.440 hunters. It's an experience that you interact 00:55:53.440 --> 00:55:55.019 with the environment in a very different way. 00:55:55.679 --> 00:55:57.599 Most hunters will look at things, whether they're 00:55:57.599 --> 00:55:59.380 megafauna or smaller animals, and they'll say, 00:55:59.579 --> 00:56:02.659 OK, well, to interact the best that we can, we 00:56:02.659 --> 00:56:05.079 look at environment. We look at maintaining a 00:56:05.079 --> 00:56:06.960 healthy environment and we look at maintaining 00:56:06.960 --> 00:56:09.440 a healthy habitat. What is that habitat support? 00:56:09.780 --> 00:56:11.679 How can we responsibly manage those numbers? 00:56:12.599 --> 00:56:14.719 And one of the ways to manage numbers is actually 00:56:14.719 --> 00:56:17.719 reproduction. It is a renewable resource because 00:56:17.719 --> 00:56:21.780 biologically an animal reproduces. So I think 00:56:21.780 --> 00:56:23.940 in that management methodology, you can say that, 00:56:24.360 --> 00:56:29.579 yeah, for any size animal, it is a way to healthily 00:56:29.579 --> 00:56:35.840 maintain a population of that animal. Okay. Dr. 00:56:36.300 --> 00:56:39.000 Ellis, do you agree with him on that aspect? 00:56:39.880 --> 00:56:42.159 That hunting is very helpful to some of these 00:56:42.159 --> 00:56:47.070 aspects for increased animals production? Well, 00:56:47.070 --> 00:56:50.610 for me, I think hunting and the connection that 00:56:50.610 --> 00:56:52.849 hunters have with the environment is a logical 00:56:52.849 --> 00:56:55.869 part of the broader issue of stewardship. And 00:56:55.869 --> 00:56:58.409 proper regulation and freedoms to hunting are 00:56:58.409 --> 00:57:02.250 part of the broader regulations of the environment 00:57:02.250 --> 00:57:06.409 at large. So I think I would concur. Mr. King, 00:57:07.030 --> 00:57:11.070 when you look at some of these fines, they're 00:57:11.070 --> 00:57:14.130 minute minute. They're small comparatively to 00:57:14.130 --> 00:57:17.050 the crime. Would increasing those fines make 00:57:17.050 --> 00:57:20.329 a difference? And making an example out of a 00:57:20.329 --> 00:57:22.170 crawler, a Chinese crawler, something like that 00:57:22.170 --> 00:57:25.610 for a while, would that help? Yeah, I think to 00:57:25.610 --> 00:57:28.409 a certain extent, thanks. But also, we have limited 00:57:28.409 --> 00:57:32.230 ability to find foreign vessels of another country. 00:57:33.289 --> 00:57:35.449 That only occurs if they're fishing in US waters. 00:57:35.570 --> 00:57:37.949 But we do have an incredible ability to. limit 00:57:37.949 --> 00:57:40.230 or prevent access to the US market. So I think 00:57:40.230 --> 00:57:44.230 we should focus on the accessibility rather than 00:57:44.230 --> 00:57:47.469 a fine onto a foreign vessel. Yeah, it'd be very 00:57:47.469 --> 00:57:49.710 interesting, because in Alaska, they have this 00:57:49.710 --> 00:57:52.130 whole matrix put together. I think they're showing 00:57:52.130 --> 00:57:55.010 increases in all their production. So at least 00:57:55.010 --> 00:57:57.909 that's my understanding, the gentleman from Alaska, 00:57:58.550 --> 00:58:01.269 that happens. So maybe some models like Alaska 00:58:01.269 --> 00:58:03.210 would be something very good to start looking 00:58:03.210 --> 00:58:07.280 at. I'm done. I'm going to turn it over now to 00:58:07.280 --> 00:58:10.659 the ranking number for her five minutes. Okay. 00:58:12.639 --> 00:58:15.559 All right, thank you very much. Mr. Newcomer, 00:58:15.860 --> 00:58:18.039 and really appreciate everyone's, and obviously 00:58:18.039 --> 00:58:20.500 we have bipartisan agreement on a lot of this, 00:58:20.559 --> 00:58:22.980 so look forward to the questions. Mr. Newcomer, 00:58:23.039 --> 00:58:25.239 in your experience, why is wildlife trafficking 00:58:25.239 --> 00:58:29.280 a potential health threat to the U .S.? Well, 00:58:29.380 --> 00:58:31.639 you know... Gosh, I talked about bird flu, and 00:58:31.639 --> 00:58:33.739 that's the thing that keeps me up at night, right? 00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:36.440 But there are a lot of diseases that can come 00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:39.179 in, not only through live wildlife, but wildlife 00:58:39.179 --> 00:58:42.980 parts. Things like Ebola, as we talked about, 00:58:43.039 --> 00:58:46.420 things that are really scary. But another scary 00:58:46.420 --> 00:58:49.460 thing is the unknown. What diseases are on the 00:58:49.460 --> 00:58:52.320 horizon? What's the next disease? What's going 00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:55.940 to mutate tomorrow that becomes highly infectious 00:58:55.940 --> 00:58:59.239 and deadly? And all of that can come in anytime 00:58:59.239 --> 00:59:02.500 you have, when you have not very many enforcement 00:59:02.500 --> 00:59:04.940 people trying to monitor this kind of thing, 00:59:05.079 --> 00:59:08.039 it's just a risk. Thank you for that. And if 00:59:08.039 --> 00:59:11.280 a pathogen was introduced into wildlife in the 00:59:11.280 --> 00:59:13.760 US that had the potential to make a jump from 00:59:13.760 --> 00:59:16.300 wildlife to people, how would we know about it 00:59:16.300 --> 00:59:19.460 when we have so few? people enforce me. Yeah, 00:59:19.619 --> 00:59:21.719 with so few enforcement people, the most likely 00:59:21.719 --> 00:59:23.320 way we're going to know about it is we're going 00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:25.440 to have, you know, the typhoid Mary and we're 00:59:25.440 --> 00:59:27.260 going to have an outbreak of a big problem and 00:59:27.260 --> 00:59:29.219 people are going to start dying or getting really 00:59:29.219 --> 00:59:32.400 sick. The best way to know about it, of course, 00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:35.099 is to catch it early. And that's through, you 00:59:35.099 --> 00:59:38.920 know, robust. wildlife inspection officers numbers 00:59:38.920 --> 00:59:42.579 at the border points in the ports of entry to 00:59:42.579 --> 00:59:44.820 look for illegal wildlife coming in because once 00:59:44.820 --> 00:59:47.179 that happens the wildlife can go to quarantine 00:59:47.179 --> 00:59:49.880 and be tested and then we know okay we got we 00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:53.460 have a problem or we don't. I very much agree 00:59:53.460 --> 00:59:56.440 with that and are there it's the same in humans 00:59:56.440 --> 01:00:02.739 like containment versus I think we've already 01:00:02.739 --> 01:00:04.860 heard this pretty clearly, but are there enough 01:00:04.860 --> 01:00:08.980 fish and wildlife inspectors at ports to manage 01:00:08.980 --> 01:00:11.980 the volume of trafficking? And if not, why not? 01:00:12.599 --> 01:00:14.940 Absolutely not. There is not. And I can give 01:00:14.940 --> 01:00:18.840 you a specific example. I recently learned through 01:00:18.840 --> 01:00:21.639 my contacts that there is one wildlife inspector 01:00:21.639 --> 01:00:24.460 based at the Port of Seattle. The Port of Seattle 01:00:24.460 --> 01:00:28.230 is a major port with People and cargo and everything 01:00:28.230 --> 01:00:30.730 else coming and going from all parts of the Pacific 01:00:30.730 --> 01:00:34.090 Rim, a high risk area. One wildlife inspector 01:00:34.090 --> 01:00:38.489 cannot handle mail, sea cargo, air cargo, and 01:00:38.489 --> 01:00:41.389 passengers. It's not possible. Totally agree. 01:00:41.769 --> 01:00:44.630 Yeah. So the same is true of agents. The numbers 01:00:44.630 --> 01:00:47.530 of wildlife inspectors and agents are historically 01:00:47.530 --> 01:00:50.030 low. And I want to use up your time, but just 01:00:50.030 --> 01:00:53.760 briefly, keep this in mind. The US Fish and Wildlife 01:00:53.760 --> 01:00:56.300 Service just agent force has been authorized 01:00:56.300 --> 01:01:00.559 at its at the highest to be around 250 253 agents 01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:04.800 that has not changed for 40 years Yet the mission 01:01:04.800 --> 01:01:07.280 of the Fish and Wildlife Service and its responsibilities 01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:10.219 have grown tremendously in that time I used to 01:01:10.219 --> 01:01:12.739 say when I was a first -line supervisor in LA 01:01:12.739 --> 01:01:16.619 my boss and I would always joke Hire me give 01:01:16.619 --> 01:01:19.460 me twice as many agents and twice as many inspectors 01:01:19.460 --> 01:01:24.719 today. They'll all be busy tomorrow Okay, and 01:01:24.719 --> 01:01:28.099 I appreciate you elevating not only that we haven't 01:01:28.099 --> 01:01:30.219 increased the number of agents in 40 years But 01:01:30.219 --> 01:01:33.300 we probably have a huge number of unfilled positions 01:01:33.300 --> 01:01:36.159 right now Okay, absolutely as Mars I understand 01:01:36.159 --> 01:01:39.219 it's historically low like right around a hundred 01:01:39.219 --> 01:01:43.039 or maybe maybe 170 or something like that Obviously 01:01:43.039 --> 01:01:46.360 we have a lot of work to do there. Mr. Benavides, 01:01:46.599 --> 01:01:49.280 I wanted to ask you about chronic wasting disease, 01:01:49.820 --> 01:01:52.980 which I know is a neurologically degenerative 01:01:52.980 --> 01:01:55.760 disease in deer and elk, and I practiced for 01:01:55.760 --> 01:01:57.739 quite a while in Colorado, and it was something 01:01:57.739 --> 01:02:01.300 that we thought of a lot in that area. It has 01:02:01.300 --> 01:02:04.920 a small but real risk that chronic wasting disease 01:02:04.920 --> 01:02:07.920 could affect human health. Is it fair to say 01:02:07.920 --> 01:02:11.860 it is a threat to this? to the sport hunting 01:02:11.860 --> 01:02:16.780 industry in the US? Well, yes. Obviously, coming 01:02:16.780 --> 01:02:18.679 from Texas, it's something that Texas Parks and 01:02:18.679 --> 01:02:22.039 Wildlife, our state agency is looking a lot into, 01:02:22.119 --> 01:02:24.460 especially over the past couple of years. A lot 01:02:24.460 --> 01:02:26.539 of new things have been put in place to monitor 01:02:26.539 --> 01:02:30.619 it. I am not a biologist by education. And my 01:02:30.619 --> 01:02:33.159 specialty really is megafauna like rhino, undulate 01:02:33.159 --> 01:02:36.860 specifically. But I think any communicable disease, 01:02:37.019 --> 01:02:39.000 any responsible person should take a look at 01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:42.329 monitoring. and just so we know like it is an 01:02:42.329 --> 01:02:45.630 extremely infectious like problem and so it captured 01:02:45.630 --> 01:02:47.929 the imagination of a lot of the hunters that 01:02:47.929 --> 01:02:50.510 I was interacting with clearly because nobody 01:02:50.510 --> 01:02:53.690 wants to kill their children with you know an 01:02:53.690 --> 01:02:57.849 elk steak so would you support funding to be 01:02:57.849 --> 01:03:00.889 allocated to states and tribes to track chronic 01:03:00.889 --> 01:03:03.329 wasting disease other diseases like it in the 01:03:03.329 --> 01:03:05.409 wild as a way to try to manage it and in some 01:03:05.409 --> 01:03:08.119 places contain it. Coming from Texas, I feel 01:03:08.119 --> 01:03:10.139 like our state agency is doing more than a sufficient 01:03:10.139 --> 01:03:12.480 job. So for us, I don't think it would be necessary. 01:03:12.980 --> 01:03:17.530 Okay. And in my last... Two seconds. I'm going 01:03:17.530 --> 01:03:20.349 to go over. Hopefully the representative will 01:03:20.349 --> 01:03:24.309 give me some grace. Dr. Kingma, you had articulated 01:03:24.309 --> 01:03:26.710 several threats to longline fishing, but there 01:03:26.710 --> 01:03:29.429 is one that I didn't see. And this committee 01:03:29.429 --> 01:03:31.889 is about to have its second hearing on deep sea 01:03:31.889 --> 01:03:34.949 bed mining, a destructive, risky, and economically 01:03:34.949 --> 01:03:38.289 dubious pursuit of eccentric billionaires. And 01:03:38.289 --> 01:03:40.510 many in the tuna industry have expressed concern 01:03:40.510 --> 01:03:43.230 about it. How does the Hawaii Longline Association 01:03:43.230 --> 01:03:47.179 feel about deep sea mining? Thank you for the 01:03:47.179 --> 01:03:51.219 question. We're concerned about the impacts of 01:03:51.219 --> 01:03:55.000 deep -sea mining on tuna populations and their 01:03:55.000 --> 01:03:58.900 distribution. We look forward to some more of 01:03:58.900 --> 01:04:01.800 the science being available, so it is quite unknown. 01:04:03.159 --> 01:04:07.159 At this point, we're highly concerned. Thank 01:04:07.159 --> 01:04:12.119 you. I appreciate the indulgence. I now recognize 01:04:12.119 --> 01:04:14.440 a gentleman from Ohio, Representative Joyce, 01:04:14.460 --> 01:04:16.389 for his five minutes. Thank you very much, Mr. 01:04:16.530 --> 01:04:20.329 Chair. Dr. Ellis, as a co -chair of the International 01:04:20.329 --> 01:04:22.389 Conservation Caucus, I'm committed to advancing 01:04:22.389 --> 01:04:25.289 international conservation initiatives that strengthen 01:04:25.289 --> 01:04:28.530 our national security. In December 2024, Congress 01:04:28.530 --> 01:04:31.230 authorized a new entity, the United States Foundation 01:04:31.230 --> 01:04:34.239 for National Security and Counterterrorism. His 01:04:34.239 --> 01:04:36.539 job is to bring together public and private partners, 01:04:36.980 --> 01:04:39.440 protect key landscapes and seascapes, and stop 01:04:39.440 --> 01:04:41.639 criminal and armed groups from exploiting wildlife, 01:04:41.860 --> 01:04:44.000 forests, and fisheries. In your written testimony, 01:04:44.039 --> 01:04:45.940 you describe how Chinese criminal networks are 01:04:45.940 --> 01:04:48.639 deeply involved in unregulated fishing, illegal 01:04:48.639 --> 01:04:51.280 mining, timber trafficking, and wildlife smuggling 01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:53.780 across Latin America. Can you discuss how those 01:04:53.780 --> 01:04:55.900 activities undermine the governance in the regional 01:04:55.900 --> 01:04:59.219 stability and what the implications that has 01:04:59.219 --> 01:05:01.460 the U .S. national security interests in that 01:05:01.460 --> 01:05:04.300 region? So thank you very much for the question 01:05:04.300 --> 01:05:07.940 for me these activities and they're multi -dimensional 01:05:07.940 --> 01:05:11.079 as you alluded to impacts us through their impacts 01:05:11.079 --> 01:05:13.119 on the region, but also impacts us directly. 01:05:13.480 --> 01:05:15.280 Obviously, through the region, for example, when 01:05:15.280 --> 01:05:17.860 you talk about IEU fishing, you're depleting 01:05:17.860 --> 01:05:20.539 local fisheries and you're hurting coastal communities, 01:05:20.699 --> 01:05:23.400 which indirectly causes instability and thus 01:05:23.400 --> 01:05:25.719 can lead to migration and government issues and 01:05:25.719 --> 01:05:28.380 other things. The issues with illegal mining 01:05:28.380 --> 01:05:30.780 not only have environmental costs, but there's 01:05:30.780 --> 01:05:33.059 an entire illicit industry that contributes to 01:05:33.059 --> 01:05:35.780 informality, contributes to other types of criminality, 01:05:36.139 --> 01:05:38.260 money laundering of drugs and things like that, 01:05:38.280 --> 01:05:40.440 and thus undermines democracy. and undermines 01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:42.619 governance stability in the region. Obviously, 01:05:42.760 --> 01:05:45.599 when you talk about flora and fauna trafficking 01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:47.599 as well, you're not only talking about the endangerment 01:05:47.599 --> 01:05:51.030 of species. but opportunities to be able to launder 01:05:51.030 --> 01:05:53.429 money through those activities. More broadly, 01:05:53.449 --> 01:05:56.050 when you look at US security directly, and I 01:05:56.050 --> 01:05:58.670 alluded in my testimony, of course, to illegal 01:05:58.670 --> 01:06:01.829 trafficking and smuggling of persons through 01:06:01.829 --> 01:06:03.929 Chinese communities and how that contributes 01:06:03.929 --> 01:06:07.190 directly to flows for security issues. But beyond 01:06:07.190 --> 01:06:09.570 that, of course, many of these activities create 01:06:09.570 --> 01:06:13.030 other opportunities for money laundering. There 01:06:13.030 --> 01:06:16.110 are cases in which Chinese triads and other entities 01:06:16.110 --> 01:06:19.179 in the United States They have money that they 01:06:19.179 --> 01:06:21.539 are laundering for groups like the Sinaloa Cartel 01:06:21.539 --> 01:06:23.920 and others, and then they are laundering that 01:06:23.920 --> 01:06:27.090 within. the United States. And so there's also, 01:06:27.090 --> 01:06:30.210 farther in the United States, an issue of presence 01:06:30.210 --> 01:06:33.869 in the Americas more broadly. If we ever have 01:06:33.869 --> 01:06:36.210 to fight a war against the PRC in the Indo -Pacific, 01:06:36.269 --> 01:06:38.570 it's not just directly the homeland, I mean, 01:06:38.570 --> 01:06:39.989 the people who are coming across the southern 01:06:39.989 --> 01:06:42.610 border, but it's also other areas where U .S. 01:06:42.690 --> 01:06:44.550 Southern Command and others could have their 01:06:44.550 --> 01:06:46.730 equities put into jeopardy. And so there are 01:06:46.730 --> 01:06:49.030 concerns with respect to, for example, IU fishing 01:06:49.030 --> 01:06:52.110 and the possibility of espionage assets and other 01:06:52.110 --> 01:06:56.250 things to hide within those vast which go on 01:06:56.250 --> 01:06:58.750 the deep water side from the Galapagos, Ecuador, 01:06:59.429 --> 01:07:02.130 Peru, Chile, through the Straits of Magellan, 01:07:02.550 --> 01:07:04.809 Argentina, putting in Uruguay, et cetera. And 01:07:04.809 --> 01:07:06.789 so it's really multidimensional. It's the idea 01:07:06.789 --> 01:07:10.510 that when you have people, networks, and money, 01:07:10.670 --> 01:07:14.050 and physical presence with an adversary nation, 01:07:14.349 --> 01:07:16.949 although it's not all directed by that government, 01:07:17.130 --> 01:07:18.730 it creates opportunities for that government 01:07:18.730 --> 01:07:21.230 to want to do harm to you in times of conflict. 01:07:21.750 --> 01:07:24.030 Thank you very much. Dr. Kingma, the U .S. has 01:07:24.030 --> 01:07:26.510 a strong interest in sustainable fisheries and 01:07:26.510 --> 01:07:28.469 in limiting the impacts of foreign fishing fleets 01:07:28.469 --> 01:07:30.750 on governance and markets. In your written testimony, 01:07:30.789 --> 01:07:32.510 you describe how China is the world's largest 01:07:32.510 --> 01:07:35.489 fishing nation, responsible for around 30 % of 01:07:35.489 --> 01:07:38.090 all the high seas. In your view, how do China's 01:07:38.090 --> 01:07:40.289 subsidized fishing fleets influence other nations 01:07:40.289 --> 01:07:42.590 economically and politically, and what impact 01:07:42.590 --> 01:07:44.650 do these operations have on the United States? 01:07:46.170 --> 01:07:49.050 Yeah, thank you for the question. I believe China's 01:07:49.050 --> 01:07:52.510 fishing fleets serve multiple... purposes for 01:07:52.510 --> 01:07:56.570 that country. And it's more than fishing and 01:07:56.570 --> 01:08:01.070 food security, but also geopolitical influence 01:08:01.070 --> 01:08:05.449 and dominance. And so from our experience and 01:08:05.449 --> 01:08:08.809 from being on the ground in many Pacific Island 01:08:08.809 --> 01:08:10.949 countries, you feel that presence and you see 01:08:10.949 --> 01:08:13.929 those vessels. And our fleet in particular fishes. 01:08:14.460 --> 01:08:18.260 on the high seas most of the time and we see 01:08:18.260 --> 01:08:21.500 a growing level of presence of Chinese fishing 01:08:21.500 --> 01:08:25.300 vessels in our neighborhood. And so I think the 01:08:25.300 --> 01:08:28.319 United States has to be highly concerned with 01:08:28.319 --> 01:08:31.840 where this is going and utilize everything in 01:08:31.840 --> 01:08:33.779 its power, including the access to the U .S. 01:08:34.000 --> 01:08:38.420 market to prevent the expansion of Chinese fishing 01:08:38.420 --> 01:08:43.140 effort that we believe is... certainly unregulated 01:08:43.140 --> 01:08:46.859 and unmonitored, and really to understand their 01:08:46.859 --> 01:08:49.619 objectives. And we certainly understand that 01:08:49.619 --> 01:08:53.899 they are closing in, certainly in the Pacific 01:08:53.899 --> 01:08:56.619 Island region, to the extent that we've never 01:08:56.619 --> 01:09:01.340 seen previously. Thank you. Mr. Benavides, U 01:09:01.340 --> 01:09:03.079 .S. leadership is critical to global efforts 01:09:03.079 --> 01:09:05.439 to protect endangered species. In your written 01:09:05.439 --> 01:09:07.260 testimony, you argue that the international ban 01:09:07.260 --> 01:09:09.699 on rhino horn trade has failed and empowered 01:09:09.699 --> 01:09:18.039 illicit criminal to protect local communities, 01:09:18.479 --> 01:09:20.520 even in controversial cases like the rhino horn 01:09:20.520 --> 01:09:23.039 trade. What safeguards would be necessary to 01:09:23.039 --> 01:09:36.069 prevent abuse within a legal market? In my written 01:09:36.069 --> 01:09:38.069 testimony, I included a link that shows the High 01:09:38.069 --> 01:09:39.930 Court of South Africa ruled that rhino horn is 01:09:39.930 --> 01:09:42.050 a privately owned item and is tradable for the 01:09:42.050 --> 01:09:46.130 purposes of conservation. So those initiatives 01:09:46.130 --> 01:09:47.970 and money that could be garnished from the private 01:09:47.970 --> 01:09:49.770 trade of horn could be put into anti -poaching 01:09:49.770 --> 01:09:51.850 programs and the proliferation of the species. 01:09:52.729 --> 01:09:55.210 And South Africa actually has, outside of the 01:09:55.210 --> 01:09:57.510 chipping program, the track international movement 01:09:57.510 --> 01:10:00.130 of the horn, there is what they call rotus, which 01:10:00.130 --> 01:10:03.760 is the rhino DNA index system. Which they can 01:10:03.760 --> 01:10:06.100 actually tie the cells from the horn directly 01:10:06.100 --> 01:10:08.720 to the host animal so you can monitor illegal 01:10:08.720 --> 01:10:12.119 trade versus legal trade I apologize for going 01:10:12.119 --> 01:10:15.180 over time No, I certainly appreciate I realize 01:10:15.180 --> 01:10:18.300 they ran over and I beg the Consideration of 01:10:18.300 --> 01:10:20.159 the chair at this time. I thought the question 01:10:20.159 --> 01:10:22.859 might be worthwhile. Thank you Or his answer 01:10:22.859 --> 01:10:25.180 would be worthwhile. It was that I appreciate 01:10:25.180 --> 01:10:28.279 that. Thank you. We're gonna go ahead and extend 01:10:28.279 --> 01:10:31.460 some time for additional questions. And I'll 01:10:31.460 --> 01:10:33.979 recognize myself for an additional five minutes. 01:10:34.659 --> 01:10:37.180 Mr. Newcomer, what are the penalties for illegal 01:10:37.180 --> 01:10:40.619 wildlife trafficking? Well, they vary greatly 01:10:40.619 --> 01:10:44.380 depending on the law involved, obviously. Shocking 01:10:44.380 --> 01:10:47.479 to most Americans, I think, would be the information 01:10:47.479 --> 01:10:52.140 that the Endangered Species Act is at maximum 01:10:52.140 --> 01:10:55.159 a Class A misdemeanor. which means that the maximum 01:10:55.159 --> 01:10:58.140 penalty would be a year in jail and $100 ,000 01:10:58.140 --> 01:11:00.800 fine. How much does a trafficker, how much can 01:11:00.800 --> 01:11:05.119 they earn? Oh, you know, traffickers I've personally 01:11:05.119 --> 01:11:09.239 chased. You know, even a butterfly trafficker 01:11:09.239 --> 01:11:12.750 I arrested once, you know, made. $100 ,000 a 01:11:12.750 --> 01:11:15.449 year. He tried to sell me $300 ,000 worth of 01:11:15.449 --> 01:11:17.470 protected butterflies. Wow. So it can be a lot 01:11:17.470 --> 01:11:19.630 of money. So do you think that in your professional 01:11:19.630 --> 01:11:21.909 experience, the penalties for wildlife trafficking 01:11:21.909 --> 01:11:24.729 should be increased to help deter wildlife trafficking? 01:11:25.390 --> 01:11:27.489 I think that would be a very positive step in 01:11:27.489 --> 01:11:30.670 the right direction. OK. In your written testimony, 01:11:31.090 --> 01:11:33.939 you describe the lack of quote, policies, directives, 01:11:34.039 --> 01:11:37.039 or guidance on how attaches are to conduct their 01:11:37.039 --> 01:11:39.760 operations overseas, what the expectations are 01:11:39.760 --> 01:11:41.939 of attaches in building and maintaining inter 01:11:41.939 --> 01:11:45.319 -agency relationships, or how US -based agents 01:11:45.319 --> 01:11:48.300 are supposed to interact with attaches. To your 01:11:48.300 --> 01:11:51.500 knowledge, Since your retirement in 2022 has 01:11:51.500 --> 01:11:54.119 this policy guidance been updated? And if not, 01:11:54.159 --> 01:11:56.460 what specific guidance would you like to see 01:11:56.460 --> 01:11:59.380 implemented for attaches to help improve the 01:11:59.380 --> 01:12:01.560 work of the Fish and Wildlife Service investigative 01:12:01.560 --> 01:12:06.060 offices overseas? Yes, as of last week, I confirmed 01:12:06.060 --> 01:12:09.560 that there are still no internal policies You 01:12:09.560 --> 01:12:12.279 know guidance nothing for how attaches are to 01:12:12.279 --> 01:12:15.420 operate overseas having served as an attache 01:12:15.420 --> 01:12:20.930 myself I would have really appreciated not only 01:12:20.930 --> 01:12:23.289 some guidance about how we were to operate, but 01:12:23.289 --> 01:12:26.430 to have some input into that. And part of that 01:12:26.430 --> 01:12:29.850 is I think an expectation for attaches should 01:12:29.850 --> 01:12:32.329 be building relationships between the United 01:12:32.329 --> 01:12:35.189 States and foreign countries that we need to 01:12:35.189 --> 01:12:37.569 share information and cooperate with to combat 01:12:37.569 --> 01:12:41.770 wildlife crime. Sometimes, you know, it was interesting 01:12:41.770 --> 01:12:45.029 in the attache core about half of us really believed 01:12:45.029 --> 01:12:50.050 in you know, bilateral operations. And the others 01:12:50.050 --> 01:12:52.149 really thought the U .S. could fight wildlife 01:12:52.149 --> 01:12:54.470 trafficking all by itself and essentially police 01:12:54.470 --> 01:12:57.069 the world. And in my experience, that is not 01:12:57.069 --> 01:13:00.689 an effective strategy. Thank you. Dr. Ellis, 01:13:01.350 --> 01:13:05.550 your testimony describes China's 17 ,000 vessel 01:13:05.550 --> 01:13:09.189 distant water fleet engaged in systematic IUU 01:13:09.189 --> 01:13:11.859 fishing. that has collapsed fisheries in Asia 01:13:11.859 --> 01:13:14.380 and now threatens fisheries in Latin America. 01:13:14.859 --> 01:13:16.819 For Alaska, it's not abstract. China's fleet 01:13:16.819 --> 01:13:19.000 operates in the North Pacific near our waters, 01:13:19.300 --> 01:13:22.600 and our fishermen see these vessels. What tools 01:13:22.600 --> 01:13:25.760 should the US deploy, sanctions, port state measures, 01:13:26.079 --> 01:13:28.779 diplomatic pressure, or another tool to hold 01:13:28.779 --> 01:13:31.300 China accountable for what amounts to state -sponsored 01:13:31.300 --> 01:13:34.500 resource theft? Well, certainly, sir, all of 01:13:34.500 --> 01:13:37.539 the above. First of all, beginning with the responsibility 01:13:37.539 --> 01:13:42.079 when one flies the flag of China or has other 01:13:42.079 --> 01:13:44.479 ties. In other words, they then become legally 01:13:44.479 --> 01:13:46.960 responsible for the actions of their deep water 01:13:46.960 --> 01:13:49.220 fleet. We've had difficulties with China on that. 01:13:49.319 --> 01:13:51.180 I think certainly more pressure can be put on 01:13:51.180 --> 01:13:53.859 China with respect to that. I follow this issue 01:13:53.859 --> 01:13:57.060 closely in Latin America and the Caribbean. And 01:13:57.060 --> 01:13:59.359 oftentimes the issue there is cooperation and 01:13:59.359 --> 01:14:01.079 technical capabilities of those governments. 01:14:01.119 --> 01:14:03.359 That goes into security cooperation. that goes 01:14:03.359 --> 01:14:05.840 into cooperation that we help facilitate between 01:14:05.840 --> 01:14:08.399 them. If there is a particular fishing vessel 01:14:08.399 --> 01:14:10.720 and they may not put into port in Peru because 01:14:10.720 --> 01:14:14.399 they offload their cargo to a logistics vessel, 01:14:14.659 --> 01:14:16.920 et cetera, et cetera, but they may put into the 01:14:16.920 --> 01:14:20.069 port of Montevideo. being able to facilitate 01:14:20.069 --> 01:14:23.890 getting those bad actors. And also, there are 01:14:23.890 --> 01:14:27.670 technical capabilities that we, in terms of ISR, 01:14:27.750 --> 01:14:30.109 in military terms, in other things, where we 01:14:30.109 --> 01:14:32.869 can help bolster the capability of our partners 01:14:32.869 --> 01:14:35.130 not only to respond but to have maritime domain 01:14:35.130 --> 01:14:38.590 awareness as well as in protecting other certain 01:14:38.590 --> 01:14:41.350 vulnerable areas like maritime protected areas. 01:14:41.890 --> 01:14:44.970 And would you say that what we see in part is 01:14:45.239 --> 01:14:48.380 a regulatory arbitrage activity that's occurring. 01:14:48.479 --> 01:14:50.579 So it's not just IUU, but it's also the fact 01:14:50.579 --> 01:14:54.220 that once they're outside of the exclusive economic 01:14:54.220 --> 01:14:56.760 zone of the United States, they engage in fishing 01:14:56.760 --> 01:15:00.340 practices that we would not condone here in the 01:15:00.340 --> 01:15:04.239 United States. They're involved in destructive 01:15:04.239 --> 01:15:07.039 environmental practices, over -harvesting, et 01:15:07.039 --> 01:15:11.189 cetera. Exactly. There's an issue with the laws 01:15:11.189 --> 01:15:13.050 that govern, depending on where the fishing is 01:15:13.050 --> 01:15:15.369 taking place or if they're right outside of those 01:15:15.369 --> 01:15:17.409 exclusive economic zones. There's also an issue 01:15:17.409 --> 01:15:20.210 of coordination between the different countries 01:15:20.210 --> 01:15:21.810 that are involved, because these fishing fleets 01:15:21.810 --> 01:15:25.470 oftentimes follow the fish. And as you also point 01:15:25.470 --> 01:15:27.850 out, the problem when they do not put into ports, 01:15:28.449 --> 01:15:31.670 and how do you regulate and go after the logistic 01:15:31.670 --> 01:15:33.369 ships and others that offload those catches? 01:15:33.909 --> 01:15:39.760 Thank you. Thank you, sir. I now recognize our 01:15:39.760 --> 01:15:42.840 ranking member, Dr. Dexter. Thank you very much, 01:15:42.859 --> 01:15:45.619 Mr. Chair. Mr. Newcomer, I'm going to follow 01:15:45.619 --> 01:15:48.319 up with a couple other questions. I understand 01:15:48.319 --> 01:15:52.279 in following up on Representative Baggich's question 01:15:52.279 --> 01:15:56.420 line, I understand increased penalties for wildlife 01:15:56.420 --> 01:15:59.819 trafficking may be helpful. What other opportunities 01:15:59.819 --> 01:16:04.600 would you see for limiting the market for those? 01:16:05.809 --> 01:16:08.310 animals or products, for instance, increased 01:16:08.310 --> 01:16:10.569 penalties for those purchasing or selling or 01:16:10.569 --> 01:16:13.989 what other mechanisms might you offer to not 01:16:13.989 --> 01:16:17.390 just hold those accountable who bring them in, 01:16:17.470 --> 01:16:19.289 but hold those accountable who then sell them 01:16:19.289 --> 01:16:23.710 or distribute them? Yeah, you know, there's a 01:16:23.710 --> 01:16:25.489 lot of what the U .S. Fish and Wildlife Service 01:16:25.489 --> 01:16:28.189 does is dependent on kind of an interstate movement 01:16:28.189 --> 01:16:33.260 of the wildlife. So any time It's just an extra 01:16:33.260 --> 01:16:36.380 element that the investigator has to prove. But 01:16:36.380 --> 01:16:40.500 a lot of times, just possessing the wildlife 01:16:40.500 --> 01:16:45.140 itself can be a crime. And if the law is written 01:16:45.140 --> 01:16:47.520 in a way where possession is illegal, and I'm 01:16:47.520 --> 01:16:49.779 not required to prove interstate transport as 01:16:49.779 --> 01:16:52.479 an investigator, that makes my job a lot easier. 01:16:52.600 --> 01:16:54.619 And I'm a lot more difficult for the bad guys 01:16:54.619 --> 01:16:58.510 to create confusion and duck and avoid me. That 01:16:58.510 --> 01:17:01.829 makes a lot of sense. And I understand that Fish 01:17:01.829 --> 01:17:04.869 and Wildlife Services may not be currently engaged 01:17:04.869 --> 01:17:07.090 in all the task forces that they may be able 01:17:07.090 --> 01:17:11.409 to offer insight or help to. What would be some 01:17:11.409 --> 01:17:14.029 of those task forces? Yeah, I'm actually really 01:17:14.029 --> 01:17:16.310 concerned about what I'm hearing about that lately. 01:17:16.949 --> 01:17:19.869 For example, even with IUU, there's a working 01:17:19.869 --> 01:17:22.050 group called the M -SAFE working group, which 01:17:22.050 --> 01:17:25.130 stands for Maritime Security and Fisheries Enforcement. 01:17:26.990 --> 01:17:29.270 It's embarrassing to say, but that's been described 01:17:29.270 --> 01:17:32.630 by one of my former colleagues as a PowerPoint 01:17:32.630 --> 01:17:35.890 party. Nothing comes out of it. No cases have 01:17:35.890 --> 01:17:38.289 come out of it. No prosecutions have come out 01:17:38.289 --> 01:17:40.750 of the M -SAFE Working Group, which is to address 01:17:40.750 --> 01:17:44.069 IUU. There's another one called the Timber Trafficking 01:17:44.069 --> 01:17:46.090 Working Group, which has been stood up by the 01:17:46.090 --> 01:17:48.510 Department of Justice now for two years. Not 01:17:48.510 --> 01:17:50.909 a single case, not a single prosecution has come 01:17:50.909 --> 01:17:53.689 out of it. And my understanding is US Fish and 01:17:53.689 --> 01:17:55.829 Wildlife Service agents don't even participate. 01:17:57.130 --> 01:18:00.250 which you know I know they have limited resources 01:18:00.250 --> 01:18:03.350 but you know at some point you have to you have 01:18:03.350 --> 01:18:05.069 to make things work and there's some things you 01:18:05.069 --> 01:18:08.069 just can't ignore and then the last is there's 01:18:08.069 --> 01:18:10.289 a presidential task force on wildlife trafficking 01:18:10.289 --> 01:18:13.970 and again my understanding is it's irregularly 01:18:13.970 --> 01:18:16.430 attended by Fish and Wildlife Service law enforcement 01:18:16.430 --> 01:18:20.770 or if it is attended it's by senior senior managers, 01:18:21.090 --> 01:18:23.630 senior leaders and the information out of that 01:18:23.630 --> 01:18:25.510 task force isn't getting disseminated down to 01:18:25.510 --> 01:18:28.250 the field and the boots on the ground agents 01:18:28.250 --> 01:18:30.729 are dying to participate in these task forces. 01:18:30.810 --> 01:18:32.569 They want to be there. They want to make the 01:18:32.569 --> 01:18:35.510 cases and they're either told they can't go or 01:18:35.510 --> 01:18:38.289 they're not informed about what's going on. I 01:18:38.289 --> 01:18:40.529 very much appreciate that and if I may take the 01:18:40.529 --> 01:18:45.770 liberty. Chairman Gozar often asks our folks 01:18:45.770 --> 01:18:48.170 who have come to testify, what is a question 01:18:48.170 --> 01:18:50.170 that you wish you had been asked and what was 01:18:50.170 --> 01:18:52.810 your answer? And if I may, I'll just go down 01:18:52.810 --> 01:18:55.229 the line starting with you, Dr. Ellis. So what 01:18:55.229 --> 01:18:57.890 is a question that you wish we had asked and 01:18:57.890 --> 01:19:01.890 what is the answer? Thank you very much, ma 'am. 01:19:02.170 --> 01:19:04.210 And I think we've touched on this indirectly, 01:19:04.310 --> 01:19:07.029 but for me, especially with the focus of this 01:19:07.029 --> 01:19:10.689 hearing, it is what is the relationship between 01:19:10.689 --> 01:19:13.430 these activities that are environmentally damaging, 01:19:13.689 --> 01:19:16.029 that are affecting the region where they occur, 01:19:16.750 --> 01:19:19.289 and US national security. And so it's really 01:19:19.289 --> 01:19:21.970 kind of understanding how these illicit economies 01:19:21.970 --> 01:19:25.510 not only cause damage, but also create the opportunities 01:19:25.510 --> 01:19:28.149 through people, through money laundering, through 01:19:28.149 --> 01:19:30.510 physical access that also comes back. to that 01:19:30.510 --> 01:19:33.170 security threat that you so aptly referred to. 01:19:33.569 --> 01:19:37.609 Very good. Thank you, Mr. Benavides. Pides, sorry. 01:19:38.250 --> 01:19:42.609 Thank you. I guess the most important to me and 01:19:42.609 --> 01:19:44.670 near and dear to my heart would be, how do you 01:19:44.670 --> 01:19:46.869 effectuate the illegal markets by removing the 01:19:46.869 --> 01:19:48.989 market? And specifically with things like rhino 01:19:48.989 --> 01:19:50.649 would be, what is the silver bullet that you 01:19:50.649 --> 01:19:52.329 need to kill the werewolf that's affecting these 01:19:52.329 --> 01:19:55.149 animals? And that's simply deregulating the trade 01:19:55.149 --> 01:19:58.390 of the horn. Deregulating the trade of? The horn. 01:19:58.630 --> 01:20:02.149 The horn. Great. Thank you. And Mr. Newcomer. 01:20:02.930 --> 01:20:04.590 Thank you, ma 'am. I would love to talk about 01:20:04.590 --> 01:20:06.409 this issue, but we do not have enough time on 01:20:06.409 --> 01:20:08.970 the rhino horn. But I think my major thing, since 01:20:08.970 --> 01:20:11.810 we have talked a lot today about increasing penalties, 01:20:12.029 --> 01:20:15.659 sentences. the real issue with the sentences 01:20:15.659 --> 01:20:17.779 is when you get to the sentencing guidelines. 01:20:18.020 --> 01:20:19.859 And I don't know how much power Congress has 01:20:19.859 --> 01:20:22.500 to make those changes, but the US sentencing 01:20:22.500 --> 01:20:25.100 guidelines have not changed with regard to wildlife 01:20:25.100 --> 01:20:28.520 crime, environmental crime for decades. And it 01:20:28.520 --> 01:20:32.460 doesn't really matter how much jail time you 01:20:32.460 --> 01:20:36.770 put on a particular piece of legislation. Ultimately, 01:20:36.789 --> 01:20:38.810 when that person is sentenced, a judge is going 01:20:38.810 --> 01:20:40.750 to be looking at the sentencing guidelines. And 01:20:40.750 --> 01:20:43.369 as long as they remain as low as they are, with 01:20:43.369 --> 01:20:46.090 some wildlife crimes being the same as vandalism 01:20:46.090 --> 01:20:49.229 of an outhouse at a national park, the person's 01:20:49.229 --> 01:20:51.310 not going to get any jail time, because that's 01:20:51.310 --> 01:20:53.270 not the way the guidelines work. So the guidelines 01:20:53.270 --> 01:20:55.550 have got to be amended and changed and brought 01:20:55.550 --> 01:20:59.250 up to where we are in the world. Thank you. Also 01:20:59.250 --> 01:21:01.970 very helpful. And Dr. Kingsma. Yeah, thanks. 01:21:01.989 --> 01:21:04.289 I think one question would be, how could Congress, 01:21:04.430 --> 01:21:06.810 the US government, support American fishermen? 01:21:07.829 --> 01:21:11.510 I think one answer is certainly restrict or prevent 01:21:11.510 --> 01:21:14.529 imports that we're competing with through those 01:21:14.529 --> 01:21:18.569 subsidized imports. But also support American 01:21:18.569 --> 01:21:21.130 fishermen like Congress supports American farmers. 01:21:21.689 --> 01:21:24.930 We don't have a fisheries bill. There's a farm 01:21:24.930 --> 01:21:28.689 bill. And so there could be promotion, it could 01:21:28.689 --> 01:21:31.869 be loans, low interest loans, development, a 01:21:31.869 --> 01:21:34.350 whole range of things. Fishermen need support 01:21:34.350 --> 01:21:36.960 now more than ever. Thank you. I will channel 01:21:36.960 --> 01:21:39.260 my colleague, Representative Hoyle, and say she 01:21:39.260 --> 01:21:41.720 would wholeheartedly agree with you on that. 01:21:42.039 --> 01:21:46.050 So thank you very much. I yield back. The gentlelady 01:21:46.050 --> 01:21:48.949 yields. I thank the witnesses for their valuable 01:21:48.949 --> 01:21:51.409 testimony and the members for their questions. 01:21:51.609 --> 01:21:53.949 The members of the committee may have some additional 01:21:53.949 --> 01:21:56.689 questions for the witnesses. We may ask you to 01:21:56.689 --> 01:21:58.850 respond to these in writing after the hearing. 01:21:59.409 --> 01:22:01.270 Under Committee Rule 3, members of the committees 01:22:01.270 --> 01:22:03.430 must submit questions to the subcommittee clerk 01:22:03.430 --> 01:22:06.909 by 5 p .m. on Monday, January 26th. The hearing 01:22:06.909 --> 01:22:09.590 record will be held open for 10 business days 01:22:09.590 --> 01:22:13.770 for these responses. If there is no further business. 01:22:14.599 --> 01:22:17.979 interrupt yes okay i'm sorry for the mr chairman 01:22:17.979 --> 01:22:20.779 i ask unanimous consent to enter into the record 01:22:20.779 --> 01:22:23.920 three letters addressed to this community regarding 01:22:23.920 --> 01:22:26.539 today's hearing the first is from lincoln park 01:22:26.539 --> 01:22:30.399 zoo dated january 20th 2026 second is from the 01:22:30.399 --> 01:22:32.619 conservation society of california at the oakland 01:22:32.619 --> 01:22:36.159 zoo also received january 2026 and the third 01:22:36.159 --> 01:22:38.859 letter is from the animal welfare institute dated 01:22:38.859 --> 01:22:41.840 january 21st 2026 without objection so ordered 01:22:41.840 --> 01:22:45.739 thank you very much Without objection, the subcommittee 01:22:45.739 --> 01:22:47.399 stands adjourned.