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Okay, everybody, listen up. Here we go. This
is Nature's Secret Service, the podcast that
puts you in the room with the men and women of
wildlife law enforcement. I'm your host, Ed Newcomer,
and today we have a amazing follow -up episode
to our interview last week with Craig Spencer,
where he talked about his work in Oliphant's
West in South Africa and with the famous black
mambas. Today we're very fortunate to have with
us two of the black mamba anti -poaching rangers.
We have Nkateko Mazimba and Colette Ngobandi.
Thank you very, very much. They are both here
in the United States. They're here for an event
in Jackson, Wyoming, so they agreed to appear
remotely with me today. And let me just say Colette
And Kateko, thank you so much for being on the
show. We really appreciate it. It's great to
have you here. And thank you for inviting us
for this show. Thank you so much. Thank you so
much. You bet. You bet. So listen, let's first
talk about Craig. Craig talked to us last week
a little bit about what the Black Mambas are.
But if one of you could tell us a little bit
about what are the Black Mambas and what's your
role there? OK, the Black Mambas, we are 36 young
women next to the reserve that we are patrolling.
We are unarmed. We are the eyes and the ears
of the reserve. We don't carry any weapon at
all. We think of a long -term solution where
we work with 11 rural schools in the area with
2 ,500 kids, which we educate in their schools.
So to add on that, Us as the Black Mambas, as
we know that you are an aunt, we don't carry
any gun. Every day in the morning we have to
split into many teams. One do for fence, some
go for stripping, some do for roadblock and also
house inspection. The reason why we do the fence
line especially early in the morning we want
to make sure that we gather any information in
the fence line and in case we found that there
is a hole there on the fence we make sure that
we do 360 to find out like why we do have a hole
in the fence and then If we find that it is the
tracks of poachers, normally poachers, as you
know, that some of them that the former soldiers,
that the former rangers and former police, they
know how to hide the tracks. So once we do 360,
because on the first line, when they have to
jump out, they don't cut any fence. Sometimes
they take advantage using that hole to go inside.
And also when they manage to pass that fence
somewhere, somehow. uh they use some hoof of
a buffalo to hide their tracks so that you cannot
able to see that there is someone who's already
inside but us as we've been trained on how to
check the trends and all to identify the sole
most special when it comes to tracking it's where
you can able to see that someone is inside and
also When you do the roadblock, we check that
in case someone is inside, maybe because some
other people, when they come to our reserves,
they do some house renovations. So, some way,
some how, to collect all their information, their
IDs to check that there are good people or even
a better people in our reserve. And also, when
we do the house inspection, it's where we check
that those contract that we already check in
the gate, they don't go inside the bush to put
the wires to have because those most especially
they eat unhealthy food so that's why we do a
house inspection. When we go for sweeping where
we go to the bush we make sure that we split
more it's either four people or five people so
that we can cover large area where we have to
remove lots of wires, because a wire is the strongest
weapon that poachers are using. If they can use
a gun to shoot animals, definitely in a distance
going to hear the sound, but for the wire, we
cannot even hear any click of a wire. So that's
why as every day we go to the bush and see to
remove the wire that poachers are putting. And
up to so far that previously we used to remove
plus or minus 200 wires per day. But now, as
we're always putting more effort in the bush,
we put more boots in the bush to show people
that there is a rangers here. When the pushers
came here to set up the wire, they can see that
there is a number of strikes. They think they
have to escape or to chase themselves out of
the bush. Then we have to remove all the wires
because we find that sometimes when they set
up 50 wires, maybe 10 impact has been down. or
50 impala is down. And when they take out the
meat of the bush, they leave the wire still set
in the tree. And any animal that's going to come
through there is either a rhino or buffalo, any
animal that's going to pass through, they're
going to get caught. So that's how pambas we
are doing each and every day. And then the reason
why they hired all the women is because we are
the primary caregivers. We are the role models
in our community. I used to say that we are the
front mirrors in our communities because it's
you men empowering where we are. And then in
the beginning, when we started with this program,
a lot of people never believed in us, especially
men. They thought that the work that we are doing,
only the men can do it. while we are doing it
exactly like they're doing it. It's just that
we are doing it in the different morals, where
we don't carry any weapons, because we believe
that the poachers, they come from the same community
that we are coming from. And our kids, they go
to the same school with their children. their
wives. We go to fetch water with their wives
in the communities. So that's why we don't want
to create any conflict in between us. We want
to build the good relationship with the people
in the community. Because we want them, we want
to educate them why they need to conserve nature.
Because nature, it is our heritage. We need to
conserve this for our future generation. And
then again, as you know that the women, we don't
want to create where we are, if we have the problems,
we want to solve it in the peaceful way. We always
want to solve the problems in the peaceful way.
So that's why they hired the women. And then
again, we are the future grandmothers. We'll
take care of our children. So we need to educate
them. And then again, as women, when we get paid
or when we get our salaries, we go straight to
buy are things for our children, while the men
normally, when they receive their salaries, they
want to spend it in their shabbings. So for us,
I think it was a good solution of involving the
ladies in conservation. because back in the days,
the women, they were not more in conservation,
but we managed to bring more women in conservation.
That's why now we are sitting at 12 % of female
rangers globally, which we are their role models,
and we've empowered a lot of people all over
the world. Excellent. How many Black Mambas are
there? us as we don't carry any gun um i hope
if we do carry any gun somewhere somehow i can
shoot someone's life and then when they back
home uh lots of people they will hate me they'll
say like your members killed my father you killed
my brother so we want to live in a village or
in a community where lots of widows because of
me lots of orphan because of me so we fight this
badly with our mouth which is education so we
try our best to make sure that whatever we have
in our reserve will also involve the income community
like we do the when we're engaging the community
we we do so many things in the community because
I remember during pandemic, so many things were
shut down. Us as the members were still selling,
but we managed to provide the food parcel to
the community. We also provided the center, which
is make me allow anyone in the community to go
and have an access of free Wi -Fi. They don't
pay anything. So by involving the community with
what we are doing, it makes us like we are investing.
Now we also are happy because whatever they had
in the community, like people want to come into
our reserve. People used to give us, like, hey,
members, be careful. We had someone to come and
poach. So that's why we work together with the
community. Whatever we had, we share with them.
Whatever we had, we also give it to them. And
also, we allow the people from the community
to come to our reserve to spend a week. or a
month. We also have a BB camp where it's based
in our bush where anyone who wants to come to
spend a week with us and then we take them. to
the game drive. We are the guide. We can share
with them the good information with them. We
share lots of good things. And we wanted to make
sure that we are investing to the people, because
some of them, they fail to go to university.
Most of the young ones, they want to become guide,
they want to become ranger. But being educating
them, being taking them to the bush, we are investing.
Some of them know that in future, they will be
the one who taking care of the animals that we
have. Because if we don't do that, we will go
instead when it comes to our animals. So that's
why we try our best to work hand in hand with
the communities. Excellent. And we mustn't forget
that the children, they are our future leaders,
instilling the knowledge at the early age. This
is going to help us in the future, because these
children will grow up knowing why they have nature
next to them. why they have conservation next
to them, why they have wild animals next to them.
So these young children, they will grow up having
the good knowledge of why we should conserve
nature. And then these children, for investing
on them, it's very good because you know the
children when you tell them something, they don't
keep quiet. Immediately when they arrive home,
immediately when they arrive home, they will
tell you that at school, They were the soldiers
because they used to call us the soldiers because
So they will say at school. They were the soldiers
they taught us that Wires that dangerous to the
animals. Yes. It's very dangerous And then again
when we go to the classes all the environmental
monitors because in the in the program We have
the environmental monitors which they go to the
school every day. They have the hours in the
schools to educate these children. So they ask
these children, what is your favorite animal?
When you grow up or when you go to varsity, what
do you want to do? So these children, they will
tell you that, ah, my favorite animal is an,
cause we start at the small things, which is
ants, trees, flowers. the right Exactly. Teach
them from the early age, so then they understand.
So do you think if you had the child saying that,
I love rhino, if you are the poacher, would you
go to the reserve and kill that rhino? No. Might
make you think twice, yeah, definitely. Yes,
because you think that I'm destroying the future
of my child. Right, right. Getting this thing.
So that's why we try our best. to educate these
young ones because we know that changing their
mindset, it will help us than educating them
when they are maybe on their 21st, somewhere
there. But these children, they're the one who
are helping us in the village to educate their
grannies. And that's why we even have the granny
program. It's a bush granny program. which we
know that the old ladies, they are the ones who
are taking care of their grandchildren. And then
we want these grannies to change like what they
have back in the years or how they lived. share
this with the children that they're staying with
at home. That's why we have, we give these grannies
an opportunity to go to Kruger National Park
or to our reserve to go for the game drive. So
then they can be connected with the animals because
we need them to be connected with the animals.
Because in conservation, we need each other.
If we want to win in conservation, if we want
to win in conservation, we need each other. We
need to educate each other. Yeah, there's so
many things that are neat about the Black Mambas
and you've raised so many cool things. I want
to ask you a couple questions here about some
of the things you mentioned. And I guess I'll
start with, you know, I know that all of my listeners
will probably be astounded at how brave you are
for being out there without weapons because normally
they think about needing weapons for two things
protecting themselves against other people bad
people and then protecting themselves against
animals because what what i think uh and then
i see in catechism shaking your head and i want
to talk about that but um you know All the fonts
West is a what they call a big five game are
our nature reserve, which means that, you know,
elephants, rhinos, hippos, lions, the big five
are there. Plus, there are real black mambas,
which are like the snakes. No, they're not part
of the big five, but you better pay attention
to the snakes So, you know a lot of times we
think of oh well, geez what if you got charged
by an elephant or whatever but One of the things
I really admire about the black mambas is that
you're very skilled not only at dealing with
human beings and Conflict de -escalation and
and you mentioned some of that in that You know
Craig Craig talked about this in that the Oliphant's
West is a kind of a unique reserve in that on
the east side is basically Kruger National Park
and then the west side is there's communities
right there right there's villages right there
and Boy I don't want to jump around with my questions,
but Okay, so let's start with So you we've explained
why you don't have weapons because you because
you're for human beings because you're you're
about conflict de -escalation Building, you know
education or deterrence through education and
presence and viewing but let's talk about like
How are you trained to deal with the animals?
You might encounter their lions or elephants
or a mad buffalo. How are you trained to deal
with that out in the bush? Okay, I'll start in
this way. Um During our training, it was a hard
training. We've been in the bush for many days.
So every day we normally go to the bush and show
us the tracks and then to know that this is a
fresh tracks or this is an old tracks. And also
the behavior of animals that when you encounter
with animals like this size or elephant or animal,
what action you should take it because normally
when you come with big five, you don't run. You
should make sure that you hide yourself somewhere
somehow and then you can be safe. So for us as
we don't carry any gun, we don't need any gun
because the skins that we're having, it make
us safe. Every day when we go to the bush or
before we start going to the bush and sleep or
on our fence line, I'm also like myself, I've
been in Equatrain to learn more information about
bees in the bush. I'm also sharing with my team
like now, as we're about to go to the bush, what
we should do, let's start to read the bush before
we go inside. Yes. My favorite animals is the
giraffe because they're too tall and they can
manage to alert the rest of the species. So I
can apply that information that I know to my
team. Like now, you see the bush is open. The
bush is clear. There is no impala. There is no
warthog. There is no deca. Why the animals are
not there? Then it's always better to read the
bush, checking the tracks down, starting to listen,
observing so that we can manage to go. in case
we find that there is a tracks of an animal normally
we don't follow we just like report immediately
then we change the direction because i know that
somewhere somehow if it's a lion you can hear
them maybe having a deep breath because they
like to sleep especially during the day because
they are active during the night right you can
get a deep breathing like we know that they're
sleeping somewhere you can hear their brain the
broken branches which is an elephant they're
pushing the tree somewhere then we can able like
tim what we do now is change the direction. That's
how we apply more in the bush and also the senses
that we all have because we have got different
senses. Some she's good on see, some she's good
on hearing, some is good on smelling, some is
good reading on the tracks. So that's how we
apply those senses that we have it to make sure
that all our members we are safe. I remember
last time we encountered with the pride of lion.
It was a mist that day. We were not even able
to see a distance. But someone in a distance,
because he hear us busy talking, because normally
when it's too mist, we like to talk so that we
can make any miles away from us because we cannot
see clear. And then someone shouted as like,
mambas, be aware, there is lion in your sight.
Be careful. We said, we just only heard the sound
and I said, thank you. Then we keep moving. We
know that the weather was not favoring us, but
we cannot skip our work because we know that
if we can skip our work, maybe we might not know
that poachers are already inside or go out. So
that's why we have to check our fence early in
the morning. So that day we were moving and then
we heard that someone is alerting us and then
we keep on working. So somewhere, somewhere when
the mist starting to disappear slowly, surely.
then I was able to see 50 meters away from us.
Then I started to see the male lion. Like, hey,
Tim, here is the male lion. Oh, that guy, he
was reminding us that we must be aware of this
guy. What we should do, as we are three of us,
one must focus on that lion, and then as we're
busy checking the defense, then we keep moving.
That day, it was a bad day for us because it
was mist. It was probably the best to focus more
on the fence while someone was focusing on the
lion. But somewhere in the distance, We see something's
playing on the road. And I say to my team, hey,
I see something's playing. They say, ah, you
lying. The thing that we should focus is that
mirror that we saw first. And it was lying down,
relaxed, meaning they're pushing us to the bright.
Yes. Keep moving. We keep moving. I say to them
like, ah, I start feeling something in my body.
There is an animal that are playing in front
of us. They say, ah, you lying. There's a big
grass there. We don't see anything. We say, OK.
I keep moving but I know that now my sense is
about to leave me because I feel like the heart
is out of my body. I see that my heart beating
fast like, hey, we are going to die. The last
word that I told to my team, I like now we are
dead. They say we are dead because I see some
things playing. It was four cups. the mother
was hiding in the big grass and then the couple
are busy playing on the road back to the grasses
back to the road so the moment they go to the
bush when they look they don't see anything but
when they keep focusing on that one the baby
comes and plays on the road exactly minus of
10 minutes we are there where the babies were
jumping in and play i was like hey look at in
front almost five meter away from us wow baby
busy playing playing them The mother as you know
that the mothers are always protected to us to
their kids. They are jammed. There were two of
them. One jumped straight to the cuffs. Like
she's thinking wanted wanted to take the baby.
And they growled, no doubt, right? They gave
out a nice growl that put a shiver down your
spine, right? They tried to show us the warning,
you know, any month before they charged you,
they always show you like, this is my wound,
my place. Go away. They tried to show us the
signs. But the baby, because they were busy playing
in front of us, mother kept chewing us. We started
to reverse slowly while we were shouting, clapping
hands, shouting, shouting. But the mother thinking
like, no, these people are going to take my cubs.
The last warning that we see, I say to my team,
what we should do, no matter how we should run.
When I look back, I find one of my colleagues
is down. And I cannot leave here running straight
to the mountain or to the tree. We should die
together there already. Make sure that we're
all safe. and then we turn back, we grab each
other, we run straight to the big trees there.
I find myself up in the tree, one of my colleagues,
she was in the big rocks there with his head
inside the big, while the legs is like trying
to talk like, help, help, while I'm busy shouting
out there. When I look down, I find that 12 lines,
12. 12 came down below the tree. Yes, because
they were following us. Because the baby was
busy playing, moving around, the mother was shouting,
and the whole group came to see what was happening.
Yeah, yeah. That is how they communicate, especially
the animals. And I find that 12 felons. Wow.
We just manage to, you know, normally they know
that once mambas are in the bush, the people
who are at the office or the manager or the supervisors,
they're always opening their eyes in case of
emergencies. And then they have to make sure
that they help us immediately. You have radios
to communicate with. We wanted to take the radio
phone. We keep talking like we need help. They
just only had the word help. Luckily, they didn't
take me in plus or minus 15 minutes. It's a pride.
Wow. Why did you decide to run? Because usually
you're told never run from a lion because it'll
trigger a chase, right? we've been warned for
two times normally lions show us some sign like
go back they threw out the sand we start to reverse
slowly slowly but because of the cubs they were
busy playing they didn't care that what was happening
there and then they she came again to show us
like sign like please go back like throwing the
sand to us we try to to to reverse slowly but
the last time that we've seen from the lion they
jump and then show us the bread like and then
yeah here we are to hell they show us three signs
and then we are dead that's where we would turn
back and run okay normally uh uh what they teach
us they taught us that uh with the lions you
need to give it a space or when you see it make
a noise and then try to get yourself bigger while
you are going back bit by bit so when you see
that you are now on the safe place that's where
you can run but you don't just run so this is
what they did they give they give the lions a
big space so when they manage to run that's where
they ran And then moving back bit by bit. Because
normally when we move, two or three ladies will
look at the lions. The other ladies will look
on the road and then direct us where to go, moving
back a little bit. Right. So then when we are
safe, we run. So normally what I can say, I can
say we've learned the animal's behavior. They
taught us the animal's behavior. This is what
keeps us safe always. So you can recognize, you
know, when and when the animal getting ready
to commit to a charge or whether it's a bluff
or that kind of thing, right? You know, it's
almost like it's almost like tactical movement
against lions, right? You have to learn how to
be tactical around lions, right? So that's why
now when I go to the bush, I know when I see
the first trace or I see the line in the distance,
we're always letting each other guys we have
to give them the space. Yeah. If it's an elephant,
we know that the reaction that is going to take
the It won't be nice. So we have to give an Asian
anything space because we know that we are in
the habitant. We are wanted territory. We cannot
take them out of the reserve so that we can keep
working. No, we are there to protect those animals.
So that's why we apply all the senses that we
have it to make sure that we are safe. Sometimes
we can smell even the dung that I'm good once
we like, oh, this is the smell of an elephant.
It is still fresh. Sometimes it will smell like.
the status of a lion, we know that this is fresh
and then we should have to take that and change
the energy. So that's how we apply to measure
that we save in the bush. So and then again we
have on the management early in the morning they
listen for the game drives. So they listen for
the sightings of the animals, which help us a
lot. because they will notify us that today because
the great reference that you're supposed to work
it was this but change the great reference because
the game drives people or they told us they are
lions or they are elephant today so even at r40
on the reserve that we are patrolling. We are
patrolling next to R40. So the people that are
driving up and down, normally they even notify
us. If they see elephants at front of us, some
of them, they reverse back and tell us, hey,
ladies, we saw elephant at this place. They were
very close to the fence line. So then we change
the direction, join at front, and then we continue
with our patrol. Nice. Yeah, I think for US listeners
to get a kind of mental picture of Olaphonse
West. It's a very large nature reserve, but it
also has, there's lodges there and there are
tourists that go there to View wildlife so during
the day there are these as you mentioned game
drive vehicles moving around and they often communicate
with each other About where wildlife is so they
can show tourists, right? But that's that's good
to monitor that radio traffic because then you
also know, okay We know there are elephants,
you know two three kilometers ahead of our of
us on our patrol route Maybe we should change
our patrol route today, right? Very good. That's
very cool I want to talk a little bit about this.
Well, first of all, you know what, we talked
about an encounter with an animal. Have you guys
ever had a situation where you've actually, like,
stumbled upon poachers in the bush? Like, there
they were, like, right in front of you. How did
you handle that? Because presumably they were
armed. What happens when you guys do encounter
poachers out in the field? Normally it happens
mostly in the morning when we do the sweeping
patrol. So we were four of us doing the sweeping
in the buffer zone where there is no rangers
there. So they deploy us there in the morning
like go guys and search that area. We know that
sometimes, some ways, somehow there's lots of
threats because we are surrounded by the mine
at our buffer zone. So normally people when they
go there, they just do the transpassing, go and
steal the copper to the mine and came back to
our reserve. set up the way to get food for their
families. So that day we find that there is lots
of different tricks there which means there was
lots of groups that was inside our reserve. Then
we reported likely we have a single phone that
is helping us to collect all the information
that we gather in the bush. So we report it immediately.
We take all the pictures and we find it on the,
on the, on down there. And then we send straight
to the office and then we let them know that
they should not call us because this is a fresh
tracks and it's already in sight because they
can keep taking like the, the loud of the way
we can make some people aware that there is people
here. Likely work together with the office and
then they say, okay, whatever we should do. use
that phone to send a message in case you bump
up something, then we say yes. Then we keep moving.
Somewhere, someone started to hear like, you
know, if people moving, you can hear some step,
like someone is moving because there were more
people. Then we start tracking and those are
guys, what we should do, we must split among
ourselves so that we can at least cover a large
area in case someone maybe jump and then we can
able to see that all these people. When we're
busy doing that, normally we communicate with
hands or or something to show that we are about
to to all our sign languages and then go to the
bush and then we started to hear that people
are moving and then someone called on the radio
and then they hear the sound of the radio and
then they start running so one was a was carrying
a lot of copper and a copper is a heavy thing
so he dropped down the bag and then the rest
of 14 they go so that guy he dropped down his
bag and he find a big tree with a big grasses
and then he go underneath the tree and he hide
himself. So we keep moving we find that oh and
it was five trees now it's four therefore it
goes another side one way at the other one we
start to do tricks and then we find that there
is a big big what we should do we just know that
this bag is from someone then we take the bag
we put information on the phone We continue with
our 360. We find someone is hiding inside the
grasses in the big tree there. So what we should
do normally, we normally used to scare people
like, hey, don't go, don't wake up. Don't kill
them just to scare them. So as you know that
they are afraid of rangers. They think that once
they see us, they will call us, they will arrest
us and all those things. And then we keep shouting
like, if you stand up, we're going to kill you.
no sorry so don't kill me don't wake up there
and we jump we handcuff him wow like why do we
train like myself i used to ask so many questions
like why are you doing this why are you here
so sometimes you find that people um are in poor
like there because someone sent them to get food
to get what they want so that they can get money
and all those stuff but that guy he was in poor
his family was in poverty was looking for help.
So what I did, we communicate with our management
like what we do because we already arrest the
person and then he say this and that and then
they call police to come and take him. So I was
always communicating with the police to check
us like when is he going out because I say to
him I wanted to go and see your family that you
really really in need. So that they put him in
our food ration that we give to people each and
every month in the community. So the police say
to me you will go home on this beach and then
so that day that is supposed to go home there
was a strong rain thunder and all those stuff
so at his family because he was giving a wife
and and and and took his the one month child
and also the three months baby three years baby
and then they release him to go in and attend
because that rain that was there at the community
I was so strong and the house of his guys fall
on top of his side and then he find that the
sink cut the neck of that wife and then she died.
So they need to go and bury his wife. That's
why I get a chance to go and see him at his family.
And then I find that he's already mourning his
wife. And then the situation was very bad. Yeah,
even worse. Yeah. Yes. So what I did, I asked
permission to my boss, like I wanted to help
this guy because now the situation is very bad.
And even if I see the way you are, he told me
previous time we arrest him, he say the same
thing, like I'm in hell, but I need something
to help my family because I'm coming from Mozambique.
I don't have ID. Sometimes in South Africa, we
don't have ID. It's not easy to get a job. So
just do some piece job somewhere where you can
be someone's house or doing something like different
than what you think you can do. So Craig Spencer
is a simple person. He said, if you can see that
you can get a solution, go for it. And then I
go to the shop. I take him to the shop. I buy
food with my own money and I help. And then I
asked like this guy, he must be part of our food
regime so that he cannot go to the bush that
he can support his kids. So that's the challenge
that I face it. And I think like, I done something
because now that guy doesn't want to see the
push at all. What he's asking is like, how can
you help me? How can you help me? So I'm struggling
or we're struggling a lot because he's from far
from that community where we used to give them
the food person. But somewhere, somehow we we
helped him. You know, that that's kind of what
we talk about. Now that makes me want to talk
to you about the whole community thing. Because
in the US, what we have found is that when police
officers live in the community where they patrol
or where they work, it's a much better working
relationship. Like, you know, that there's more
trust between the police and the people. And
it's really hard sometimes just because of economic
factors to get police officers to live in those
communities because maybe the officers don't
get paid enough to do that or they can't afford
the housing but in your situations you know you
mentioned you live in these communities where
these people are and i want to just take a Grief
second here to explain to listeners that in Africa
and and you guys correct me if I'm wrong But
I think I'm right that you you're encountering
there's two different kinds of poachers that
normally encounter There's the people that go
in that are after the rhino horn the elephant
ivory sure they're there They're there to sell
that to other people that make money a lot of
more money But then there's sometimes people
who live in the periphery of these parks or outside
the parks that are very very poor and sometimes
hungry and They they sometimes go into the parks
to poach But what what we normally call bushmeat
and they're looking for food basically versus
something they might sell and that's this was
a situation where you had a person who was Struggling
and they looked into the park as a food potential
food source, right? Yeah, yeah, but now Being
part of the community and taking that as part
of your responsibility What do you think just
both of you answer this one maybe in your turn?
When you do something like that for someone Do
you think it has an impact on on is it just him
and his family or does does that act of compassion
and kindness? Willingness to help or to show
that the black mambas aren't just here to catch
you but to help you Is that does that have? Benefits
beyond just that one person and and if so, how
how does that how does that extend to the greater
community? Do you know what I mean by that question?
Yeah, like um You say in this situation because
we find the man who was a poor in our bush and
then we gave him a food or gave him a food now
she's in our program so like we according to
us. We like I can I don't know how to put it
but what I can say is that in our community.
We are in our communities we have tribal authorities.
so these tribal authorities or these elders they
know the houses which are very poor so that's
why we go to the tribal authority to ask permission
or for them to give us the number or the names
or the house of the people who are very poor
so then we give those families the food rations
uh -huh to keep them from becoming poachers in
the first place So we are putting an impact in
the community. Right. Right. Yeah, they're benefiting
because whatever we get it, we will also share
with them. So the food parcel is also helping
them. And also inside the food parcel, there's
seeds of different types of seeds where they
have to plant it. And then the water, those veggies
that are inside the food parcel, if it's grown
enough, It's part of the impact because they
can see that I was not having these things, but
now the mamba stepped in my family or into the
whole community. So they're not thinking of coming
and pushing because we are helping them. And
we also even do the march. We have a chance where
we allow anyone in the community to do the march,
like stop rhino pushing. So by doing those things,
it's part of benefiting the communities. because
they are able to understand like why as members
we concerned with nature why are we protecting
the animals because some of them they fail to
go to university due to their situation but doing
everything with them is part of benefiting that
getting something from us and also as I was saying
that we do have a center where we even cook food
for the person to allow anyone to come and get
food from the community we also even have a garden
inside the center we also have any free wafer
so that anyone can come and be busy with wifers.
People that are in my age, when you talk about
sometimes in in in potions and whatever, they
will never listen. But when they come to our
center to have a free wifer, they're busy trying
to apply, they're busy doing whatever they want.
We keep them busy. Yeah. Thinking of going to
the bush and so which is part of benefiting in
the communities. And it makes allies for you,
right? So I imagine these people sometimes provide
you with information or they become advocates
where maybe they hear from someone else that
who is thinking about poaching and they discourage
them from doing it themselves without mambas
even being involved, right? Yeah. And then again,
uh, because in the north side where we are staying,
uh, like a lot of bushmeat poachers, they coming
from that communities cause in, um, In the south
side, we have more programs that are educating
people there. But in the north side, we are the
first one who went to the community to educate
them. So that's why we deployed more members
from their community. Yeah, so it's like giving
back to the community. So giving back to the
community by hiring them from the community and
work to the reserve that is next to the community.
Right. How many Black Mamas are there now? We
are 36, including the environmental monitors,
which they stay in the community, waking up in
the morning, go to schools to educate their children.
Excellent, excellent. You guys mentioned so I
think I said, you know We call that community
policing in the US when you're living in the
community and working in the community that you
serve You guys mentioned, you know Women Rangers
or women in the community or primary caregivers,
you know, they might be moms. They might be aunties
They might be crap grannies, whatever it is,
right? Does that oh and one thing I read on your
website you guys work what is it 21 days on and
10 days off right and that means you spend 21
days in the park right yes yeah so given that
you are caregivers aunties to your you know children
in your community what does that create any kind
of challenge and when you're away that long or
how do you balance work and your and your family
personal life responsibilities To tell you the
truth, I'll start by saying that in our compound,
where we are staying, we have a lot of nests.
We have rhino skulls. We have elephant skulls.
So every morning before we go out on patrol,
we call that area that is our motivation area.
That place remind us. of why we are there to
protect these voiceless animals. For us staying
21 days, it's a reward to the animals. So for
us going back home for 10 days to bond with our
children or to bond with our families, I think
it's enough time because our children, they are
allowed to visit us during school holidays. great
and during the holidays so our children they
are more allowed to come and then we do the game
drive with them uh we show them what we do but
uh you know that sometimes somewhere somehow
we miss our families but uh for me because when
i'm home i don't rest i don't want to lie i don't
rest at all and then sometimes like they give
me a dig i think like no the 10 days it's more
can i go back to work so yeah it's crazy you're
just you're just as busy at home as you are at
work yeah yeah and then and then again um for
us to be away for our children this benefits
them it is benefiting them because we are protecting
the animals that they will see and that they
see not in posters not in books not reading them
but they see it on real life so it is benefiting
our children and then again now and then when
I go to my off -cycle because when I normally
love to take pictures so when I go home to my
children I show them the beautiful pictures of
the rhinos elephants things like that so excellent
great so for my side at the beginning it was
not easy because being away from my family I
don't have kids but I have many kids in my shell
because I end up opening my own charity away
from my charity like feeling like I I leave them
behind yeah so but up to so far because they
know that the reason why I'm away from them so
that I wanted to help them if I can if I'm not
waking i won't even manage to help them so but
being me in the bush protecting all those animals
uh it's make a huge um benefit from them because
each and every month i take my kids in my charity
to go to kruka to see animals for free so i do
this because i wanted to develop to commit the
way i i grew up on so i end up opening that charity
I do so many things in my charity because what
I'm doing in the place where I'm working, I apply
it in my community where I'm staying. So that's
really with me dealing with food parcels, clothing,
anything that people are giving to me, I'm also
giving back to them. So they end up understanding
like even if you are away from us, we know that
you are doing something to help my family to
sleeping with something in their tummy. Sometimes
if maybe the kid doesn't have a uniform to go
to school, I also bought the uniform. for them
so they make they know that uh go work so that
you can help us that's why now they're so proud
of me they're so happy on me i'm in love with
my community i am a role model in my community
where i came from that's why i'm fighting very
hard to be more in the booth so that they can
at least benefit because i don't want to see
them or their families go to the bush and get
impala get decad i don't want to see that thing
so i'm blogging them or blogging their families
to go to the booth so Right now, I'm so proud
to be away from them. And they're so happy to
see that she's away from us, but we know that
she's coming back to see us. And we know she's
doing good things, yeah. Exactly. So I know you
have other things that you're doing. today and
you're in the states for uh why are you in the
states what are you guys doing you're in jackson
wyoming did you you got to see yellowstone national
park right that's pretty neat it's different
very different than africa right yeah we are
here to um to share our work that we are doing
in south africa it was totally different So sharing
and caring is good because they're also learning
from us and also learning from them. And also
to show that even women can work the job which
the state is a man. Because I think here, lots
of people that are working as a ranger who are
taking care of the pack, I think is a man. So
I wanted to show them that even though they can
give a chance to women in the US to be part of
the pack. Yeah, there there are many National
Park Service rangers who are women Debbie met
any while you were in Yellowstone. Did you meet
any female Rangers? Okay, okay good good good
good So I don't I don't want to keep you too
long today, but let's wrap up Just tell me each
of you kind of what do you think your long -term
impact like? What do you hope what do you hope
your legacy is in in having a career as a black
mamba? What do you think your long -term impact
is going to be on your communities, South Africa
in general, wildlife? What do you hope to leave
as your legacy? Okay, myself, I hope to leave
people who can walk on top of my foot to protect
these wild animals and then to make sure that
we stop poaching before our animals go extinct.
Right. That's my wish. Awesome. Like my wish,
I wish that one day the government must take
us into seriously because when it comes to rhino
poaching, government doesn't take into serious
because if you can arrest a rhino poach today,
you find that within a week is out and then the
second day is in. So I want that when we invest
more good information to the young ones, I know
that the one day those kids that we've been grooming
them now, they would be working at the government.
They would want that I can make sure that everything
is good so that they can know that animals that
we have in our reserve or in our parks is our
heritage. We must try our best to take care of
it. Like last time we heard that there was a
dinosaur. I never seen even the dinosaur. But
now in my age, there is a rhino. There is pangolin,
there is elephant. Why do they might take care
of those animals that they cannot go instead?
So I'm grooming the young ones so that one day
they can work in the government. They can be
the one who working in the reserve taking care
of the animal for the young, young, young generation.
Awesome. You know what's interesting and reassuring,
but also I find it really endearing is that during
my podcast, as I talk to different people involved
in law enforcement issues or you know countering
wildlife trafficking or poaching there's so much
we have in common regardless of where we live
right um we may have different laws that apply
we may have different you know realities in our
local communities or whatever but in the end
the people who are involved in this effort to
protect wildlife around the world Really have
very similar motivations, you know, like Everything
you say resonates with me and and the things
I hoped to accomplish during my career and the
things that I cared about so it's it's just a
very kind of neat way to Remember that on those
days when things aren't going well There are
people on the other side of the planet doing
exactly what you're doing and just as passionate
and maybe that helps us Push through those difficult
times, right? Yeah, well listen, yeah for sure
Colette and Kateko, thank you so much for your
time I am so thrilled that you were willing to
come on the podcast and talk to us just a little
bit about the black mambas Anybody who's any
of my listeners who are interested in learning
more? I'll have the the link to the black mambas
website on my website they can go and take a
look and and read more stories and Contribute
and support you if they if they can But thank
you so much for your time. I hope you enjoy your
stay in the United States. And thank you very
much for the work you're doing in Africa. Americans,
you know, they like to come to Africa and spend
their money on on tourist activities. And they
really all of us really appreciate that there
are people like you protecting wildlife resources,
not just for South Africans and people in your
community, but for the whole world. So thank
you very much. Thank you for inviting us. But
before we close that, I would like to say Thank
you to the listeners. Since the Black Members
Anti -poaching Unit, we are a non -profit fund.
We'll love to see people supporting us. And then
we have the Black Members' Alliances, which are
the ones who are paying our salaries or which
are the one who are paying for the instruments
that we are using. We'll love to see many people
to join to our Black Members' Alliances because
we are the rangers on the fold, but we need support
from the people so then we can manage to run
the program. Thank you. Absolutely. We'll make
sure that all that information is on the Nature
Secret Service website so that people can contribute
in whatever way they can. Yeah. Thank you. Thank
you so much. We appreciate you having us in the
Zoom. And to all today listeners, thank you so
much. I hope one of you will come to South Africa
and see the Black Mamba's life, not to see on
the Zoom. Oh, you know, you know, I'll be back.
I'll be back to see you guys again. Yeah, I love,
I love visiting and Craig and I've already talked
about it. I'll be back to see to see the Black
Mambas soon. Okay, that brings us to the end
of another great episode of Nature's Secret Service.
I want to thank our guests today, Nkateko Mazimba
and Colette Ngobeni, both of the Black Mambas
anti -poaching unit in South Africa. It was such
a pleasure to have them on the show. I hope you
guys enjoyed it. We'll see you next time. and
is co -produced by the DHTV team here at California
State University Dominguez Hills. Follow us on
social media and connect with us online at naturessecretservice
.com.