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Okay, people, listen up. Here we go. This is
Nature's Secret Service, the podcast that puts
you in the room with the men and women of wildlife
law enforcement. I'm Ed Newcomer, your host,
and today we have Savannah Morgan with us, a
former game warden with California Department
of Fish and Wildlife who spent many years working
in their special operations unit. Super happy
to have her here. She's gonna talk to us about
a great case. Savannah, thanks for being here.
I appreciate it. Thanks. It's so great to have
you here. You know, you were a biologist by training,
right? By education and training, you're a biologist
first. Yeah, wildlife biologist. What drew you
to becoming a law enforcement wildlife officer?
So when I got my degree, I decided, okay, here
I am. I want, you know, looked for a job. And
I couldn't find a job. So I ended up getting
a job as a customer service rep at a beer place
straight out of college. Exactly. So I was naive
thinking, you know, someone was going to hire
me right off the back. And so I'm like, I don't
want to do this my whole life. So I went back
to college. And when I was in college, I did
a research project on. Northern Sea otters and
when I was giving that presentation a Fish and
Wildlife Service Guy was there and he heard the
presentation a US Fish and Wildlife Service No,
it was a state. So we're now called State Fish
and Wildlife Department of Fish and Wildlife
It used to be fishing game. Yeah, I'll say fishing
fishing game So he was there and he heard my
presentation and he offered me a job. So I said
well stay in college and pay a bunch of money
or get a job and so I went with That's how I
learned about fishing game initially. And that's
where I first learned about game wardens. I met
my first game warden and he was really cool and
told me all about his job, how he's outside all
the time. I thought, okay, this is my kind of
job. Carry a gun, get to rest people. Yeah, I
mean, heck. So that's kind of how I got on that
track. You know, that's actually not uncommon.
Many game wardens I've met who have become state
game wardens. after being biologists for the
same agency, have similar stories where they
met a game warden in the field, and they start
talking to him and the game warden's job sounds
a lot more fun. Exactly. So they end up going
that route. Yeah. And generally game wardens
are pretty laid back people. Yeah, they are.
They love the outdoors. And they love their jobs.
And I'm like, that sounds good, not being in
an office. Yeah. And you know what else? They
hate lawbreakers. At their core, I always say
this, the best game wardens, the best federal
wildlife agents are cops first. They're like
cops at heart, right? They don't like lawbreakers,
and then they happen to also like the outdoors
and wildlife. Exactly. game warden work, wildlife
officers, special agent for fish and wildlife
for the perfect like combination of it all. It
brings it all together. You, when you became
a warden, one of the jobs that you had, you were
what in California they call an OSPR warden.
Can you explain that a little bit? Yeah. So OSPR
stands for oil spill prevention and response.
So basically I was a pollution. investigator,
but mainly petroleum, so large -scale petroleum.
And we worked in the Bay Area, so we had a lot
of refineries out there. And so not only would
we investigate spills, but we'd also train with
them and practice like drills in case a major
spill would happen. What would we do? And those
sort of things. And so that's how and when I
wasn't doing that, I was also actually a regular
warden as well. So I did regular patrol and fishing
and hunting stuff as well. Right. But that was
kind of my main thing was investigating pollution
spills. Right. Yeah. You know, that is interesting.
The OSPR wardens, they have that kind of I guess
specialty you'd say maybe but their uniformed
wardens drive a marked vehicle just like every
other warden and they'll give you a citation
for illegal fishing just as quickly as anybody
other warden would raise. And it's not like there's
a spill happening every day. There's no spill
you're out there doing just your general patrol,
which is fun too. And you know, on that note,
one of the things that as you know that happens
a lot with petroleum spills is it ends up impacting
migratory birds, which of course, The federal
government has primary jurisdiction over migratory
birds in particular, right? I got to tell you,
when I was an agent for Fish and Wildlife, any
time we had a spill where it was like, oh my
gosh, there's going to be migratory birds impacted,
I was so relieved when I found out there was
an Osper Warden assigned because you guys knew
exactly how to handle it. Yeah, totally. It made
my job very easy at that point because. We were
the same way with Coast Guard. We worked a lot
with Coast Guard. I'm sure, yeah. So on some
of the boats that would go down and they would
polluting whatever fuel that they had on board.
You don't know a lot about boats. So I was always
grateful to have Coast Guard there. I'm like,
oh, yeah. It's that interagency expertise that's
so valuable, right? Exactly. So then after you
were an OSPR warden for a while, you joined the
Special Operations Unit for California Department
of Fish and Game, or now Fish and Wildlife, right?
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, tell us what SOU.
What is an SOU? Now you go from being a uniformed
officer to plain clothes, right? Exactly. So
I was. Four years I did the uniform thing and
then a slot opened with the undercover unit which
was SOU which stands for special operations unit
And so I was thinking you know I've only been
on for four years But I'm gonna give it a shot
because you know these guys were the secret squirrels
We called it and I wanted to be part of that
so I applied and I got on and so I was really
stoked So if you look on paper what we do is
we investigate infiltrate and apprehend Poachers
are people that are out there poaching wildlife
for profit But what we're really doing is we're
undercover ones like any undercover person whether
it be drugs or anything else We're in plain clothes.
We have I drove around in a minivan. I loved
my little minivan Have undercover IDs bank accounts
social media stuff and everything. So that's
what we do. Yep. Yeah, we as you know as US Fish
and Wildlife agents, you and I were actually
talking about this at lunch, we come out of the
Academy as plain clothes, you know, federal investigators,
but in the states that do have so you types,
units or detectives, plain clothes, state officers,
you're the unit we kind of normally automatically
liaison with because you're kind of doing exactly
what we do as federal agents, you're just doing
it on the state side. Yeah, so it's a nice nice
easy way for us to mix. Exactly. And I have to
tell you, I think honestly, the OSPR experience
was probably really valuable for you prior to
going into SOU because The investigations that
an OSPR warden does are complex and they can
be long lasting. They can take long time to solve,
right? Yeah. And they require sometimes paperwork
analysis, subpoenas, search warrants, whatever,
in terms of looking at records and histories.
Totally. And that is exactly what an SOU. Warden
is doing right and working with a lot of other
people too. Yeah, because the SOU we had to work
with uniform warrants We work with the feds and
all different sort of people same thing with
Osborne Yeah, you're you're actually right. I
never thought of it that way. But no, I think
I think Osborne wardens or you know, they get
a they get kind of a crash course in complex
investigations pretty early in their careers
if that's what they end up doing yeah, kind of
neat, you know now I'm gonna take a quick break
from you because One of the things I always try
to do is get my guests, or not my guests, my
audience to send me questions. And they never
do. But I got a question. Oh my gosh. And we'll
both be able to answer it, I think. I got a question
from a listener named Paula in Santa Fe, New
Mexico. And Paula wanted to know, how often does
a forensics lab play a role in a fish and wildlife
case or does it even play a role and Yeah, I'm
gonna answer for the Fed side, but I want you
to answer for the state side US Fish and Wildlife
Service we have a national forensics lab for
wildlife and that's all they do is wildlife crime
forensic work and they're totally devoted to
doing the support work for US Fish and Wildlife
Special Agents and Wildlife Inspectors and they
also will do Forensic work on behalf of the states
at their request and I've I used our forensics
lab many times for they can do DNA comparison
to identify a Wildlife part and tell you what
animal it came from they can do ballistics testings
Fingerprints they have a morphology section so
you can do Species ID based on you know comparison
of similarity similarity comparisons Yeah, I
mean I used it many times for different types
of cases cause of death All of those things this
California have a lab. I can't remember Sacramento
actually a pretty good sized lab and They're
actually I know we're gonna eventually talk about
deadly as they're working on determining finding
a way to determine, did these studlias come from
the nursery or were they from the wild? And trying
to, cause that's a problem. Everyone's going
to say, Hey, I got these in a nursery, you know?
So how do you prove otherwise? And so they're
looking into that. But beyond that, they also
can do the sexing thing. So if we get a piece
of meat and we're like, this is obviously deer
meat. Is it a dough? They can say yes or no.
And one of the cases I worked on was shark fins.
So what kind of shark fin is this is it a restricted
species and they can do that too. So they do
a lot of stuff Yeah, yeah and some labs, you
know around the country specialize in certain
things or they're better at certain things So
again, it's I remember I used your lab when I
was doing some sea otter work Even the sea otters
were are federally protected your lab had more
expertise on sea otters So it's always good to
know which labs are focusing on what? Yeah, or
what their workload is, because you might be
able to sneak your case into one lab where the
other one's full for now. Exactly, exactly. So
interesting. I'm glad you brought the plant up,
the Dudleyia, because what I want to talk to
you about today is this amazing case you worked
on involving plant trafficking. Don't think sometimes
people don't realize that a fish and wildlife
agencies also protect Plants and the environment
where all of these animals that we normally think
about them protecting live right and these plants
that they rely on and I'll give you an interesting
statistic the it's kind of hard to put firm numbers
on things, but the now the estimate on the amount
of money generated by wildlife trafficking every
year is generally estimated between 10 and 20
billion dollars a year. Now, you know, internationally
on wildlife trafficking. But if you add plants
into that plant trafficking, it's exceeds 100
billion a year. Easy, easy. I totally believe
it. Totally believe it. Because that includes,
of course, timber trafficking. And there's a
lot of, you know, hardwoods around the world
that are trafficked. And these plants are trafficked.
pretty frequently and there's big money in it
and it does unbelievable damage to the environment
when you start taking out commercial quantities
of plants right yeah and you know what the one
thing I also was trying to explain to the district
attorney's office, like they're like, why is
this important? Yeah, prosecutors often don't
know why this is important. Yeah. And I say,
well, because what you're saying these large
numbers, but they also don't have any means of
protecting themselves. You know, a deer can go
and run away. It can do some sort of avoidance
when it comes to poachers. What does a plant
do? It's just it's stuck there. You know, so
there's no. So that's kind of scary. And so if
these guys can easily just go on a bluff and
rip out thousands. And it's that easy. There's
no protections for it. So it's kind of scary.
That's a great point. Yeah. And along those lines,
the plant we're going to talk about today is
a Dudley. Tell us what a Dudley a plant is. where
it lives and its growth pattern and all of that.
So, um, my first case that I got involving dead
liars, I remember bringing in a warrant. It was
a, um, I was going to put a tracker on a vehicle
on the suspect's vehicle and I got in front of
the judge and it was the same thing, right? So
I always try to write a little paragraph that
explains what the deadly is. What is it? Why
is it important? Yeah. So I remember him looking
at me and he goes, dude, Leah, and he called
it dupe and you never correct a judge, right?
So I'm like, yeah, he's so What is this? And
of course, the part he didn't say is, and why
the heck should I care, right? Because a lot
of our judges, they're also dealing with homicides
and violent crimes. So why do I care about stupid
plants? Same for the feds, right? Yeah. They
got a terrorism case right before your right
before your wildlife case comes through. And
now you have this cute little plant. Why do I
care? Exactly. And so first off, I told them,
well, OK, it is a plant. It's a succulent. And
it looks kind of like a lotus flower, if you
know what a lotus flower is. And the thing about
lotus flowers is they only bloom for like three
to four days. But a deadlia, it's actually it's
leaves that are succulent and form this beautiful
flower looking thing. And they look like that
all the time. So it's like always having this
lotus flower with you. And the other thing is
in some countries. the lotus flower has a cultural
significance, especially in Asian countries.
So a lot of times you'll see like a Buddha statue
or other deities that have the lotus flower underneath
them, and it represents compassion, various things
like that. So that's one of the things that makes
them so interesting to people. But what's also
interesting about deadly is, as you know, wildlife
that's being poached at a commercial level, you
have that which is poached for delicacy, because
it tastes really good, like caviar. And then
you have things that are being poached because
of medicinal purposes, like gall bladders, abalone,
that sort of thing. Dudleyas don't fit in either
one of those. They're simply being poached because
they're pretty. To me, it was like, wow, okay.
So I explained to them what Dudleyas were. Their
name is live forever. So they live for a really
long time. That's what Dudley means? Yeah. Live
forever? Live forever. Oh, that's cool. So they
can live up to, one of the biologists was telling
me, showed me one of the Dudley plants that had
been poached. He saw this competing were from
50 to a hundred years old. He's like, and it
takes them a really long time to get that size,
which is another problem, right? So it's not
like these things are growing really quickly,
you know, no problem. They'll rejuvenate. They're
not, they're really slow growers. So, but anyway,
so there's these beautiful plants or succulents
and they grow on our coastal bluffs. And so why
is that important? Well, a lot of the coastal
bluff areas are all actually homes to a lot of
other plants that are really, you know, a sensitive
species. So if you're out there traipsing around
the bluff, trying to get these deadly as you're
also stepping on these other plants, these sensitive
environments. They're also, so delias can be
found on flatter areas, but mainly the ones that
these people we found were poaching, or the poachers
were poaching the plants that were on these bluff
side. And so when they go on these bluffs, they're
actually kicking a lot of the soil off. And when
they do that, you... pretty much create an area
that's uninhabitable because now it's just all
rock, all the soil is gone. And so it's really
difficult to even put the plant back to those
areas. And so they've moved to these areas, these
bluff areas as a protection to themselves. So
they're in a sensitive environment and we discovered
through these cases that we're gonna talk about
that people, because they're so easily poached,
they're taking them by the thousands and thousands.
So they'll completely denude a whole hillside,
right? Exactly. And pretty quickly too. But the
other thing is they also have another significance.
They're also a food source. Whenever you're talking
about plants, right, you have the flower, which
is for pollinators like hummingbirds can utilize
the flowers and other pollinators. And they also
produce seeds like anything else and those are
eaten by birds and stuff and the plant can be
eaten. So it's also a food source. And as we've
learned, when we're talking plants, they're all
part of this web. So if you take out, one plant
you're now impacting some of these other animals
and other animals eat those animals and so forth
and you're really messing with the whole web.
So they do have a significance. They are important
and we don't want people coming to our state
and taking them by the thousands. Definitely
not because it does have that weird ripple effect
and so eventually the plant itself could become
threatened or endangered but then you've got,
you know, it protects the soil from erosion.
It's a food source. It might be a sheltering
source for animals, right? It's just the bugs.
Yeah, the importance of plants to the rest of
the Wildlife world is so critical. Yeah, so we
love the big fuzzy. Yeah, we love the bears and
all these things But we forget about the plants
that they rely on now bring me the little tiger
case not the plant case, right? Yeah, the prosecutors
love yeah was the same thing Yeah, so the you
know that the other thing these succulents I've
read they grow sometimes like a millimeter or
two a year. Oh, yeah, maybe three four millimeters
a year I'm actually growing some now for the
California native plants society. Okay, and I've
discovered they'll sprout pretty quickly in perfect
condition This is not in a while. That's even
harder, right? But then I'm sitting there going
come on, you know, it's a really really slow
grower And that's why you know people say well,
why don't they just propagate these in a greenhouse?
It takes years and years and years to grow one
that would be valuable, right? Exactly. And if
you're a nursery, you can't do that. You can't
wait for 15 years to sell your plant or 50 years
to sell some of the ones that they're stealing.
There's no, but we are trying to do that. There
are people like UC Santa Cruz that are trying
to get these plants out, their seeds out there
so that people will use that instead of poaching
the plants. But again, they're not going to 50
years. Yeah, that's a 50 year plan. I'm not going
to wait 50 years for it to get there. You want
the big money. That's true for Like saltwater
coral to even though it's a living, you know
creature. Yeah They do propagate coral for the
aquarium trade in but you know The propagated
ones are maybe you know quarter of an inch to
an inch and a half You go get one from the wild
you get five six inch piece That's who knows
how old that you can sell for a thousand dollars
exactly rather than having it in your Aquarium
for you for ten years while it grows and and
you know, the other thing is Dudley is like live
coral, very difficult. I mean, it's it's not
easy to keep them alive and in a captive environment,
I guess, right? A lot of people, like a lot of
people with cactuses, they kill them. Yeah, because
they overwater them or underwater them. And then
you got to go buy another. So there's like this
guaranteed market for these things. Yeah, and
some Delia have horizontal roots. So it's not
like you just dig your hole, stick them in there.
The root system's not like that. And once you
mess it up trying to replant them even, our biologists
are finding it's not that easy. And so you go
and you put them and they all look good when
you leave, but then a windstorm comes or something
knocks them over and they're really susceptible
to being re -rooted. Interesting. Shallow roots.
Exactly. So how does a SOU warden... How does
a Dudley approaching case come to the attention
of California Department of Fish and Wildlife?
And then how does that make its way to an SOU
warden? So it first started out, I have to give
credit to the uniform guys. It's usually the
uniform guys that come across the stuff, right?
And even before that, I have to give credit to
the uniform guys. credit to the public, because
it all started with this lady. She's in a small
town in Mendocino County in a post office. That's
up North, right? Yeah, exactly. The North Coast.
And she walks into the post office, you know,
and she's expecting to say hi to the front counter
lady, you know, they all know each other and
so forth. And she got behind this person who
had just dozens of boxes. And all of them were
being shipped to China. And so they were having
to fill out these customs forms for her. So she's
a little annoyed. She thought she was just gonna
pop in and pop out, right? So she has nothing
better to do, so she starts listening in to what
this guy is saying. And so she also notices the
dirt's coming out of the bottom of these boxes.
And so that's weird. And so she hears the post
office lady ask, well, hey, what's in these things?
And he said, something very valuable. So now
she's really listening. And then she said, well,
where'd you get him from? And he pointed towards
the coast. So this lady automatically thinks
abalone because abalone are being poached like
crazy on the coast. Anybody who lives in Northern
California knows that abalone poaching is a big
deal. Exactly. OK, exactly. So she's like, oh,
my gosh. Right. So certain citizen. Awesome.
Yeah. So she gets she calls them. Warden Freeling
and and says hey, I think we have an abalone
poacher and this is what's going on Okay, and
so he he goes to the post office and since they
were being sent to China I'm sure you guys get
to do this too. Once they go through customs
They can be x -rayed and you can see what's in
the box. Yep, and so he's like, okay Show me
the abalone and they end up being these succulents
and he's like what the heck is this? You know,
it was the first time none of us really knew
about it. When was it? What year was it? 2017,
December of 2017. And so he's like, okay, I've
got some succulents here, are they native, not
native? So he gets California Native Plant Society
involved and he says, what is this? And they
said, oh yeah, these are our native dudlias.
And he finds out that, yeah, plant poting's a
thing. And we weren't aware of it. We had no
laws that protected plants, you know? And so
he's like, okay, well, good to know. But the
guy had already left. So there was nothing he
could do at that point. Case gets not forgotten,
but you know nothing happens and then the plants
left the country No, so I'm sorry so so no he
decides to intercept the plants and he gives
them to the California native plant society I
believe they put some of them back in the ground
they tried to and the other ones they they kept
I think they were doing for educational purposes
or something like that But I know some of them
went back into the ground the ones that could
do you remember like why if they if there were
no laws protecting plants in California What
authority did he use to seize the plants, do
you remember? So he didn't, well, okay, so he
did, it was vandalism. Oh, vandalism. Yeah, so
vandalism is what he used. Okay, interesting.
But he didn't know. That's creative. So it might
have been kind of a gray area, to be honest,
now that I think about it, you know? Because
it's like, yeah, he had these dead leaves. We
knew that they were native. And based on it,
turns out you can actually look at some of these
plants and tell that they came from the wild.
Because unlike a nursery plant that looks Perfect,
right? No bugs, perfect fertilizer, perfect control
of light. In the wild, that's not the case. Right.
You know, so you end up getting bug bites and
different coloration. They grow towards the sun.
So you have these things that key you in that
they're wild. So they had an idea that, yeah,
they got these from the wild and they shouldn't
be doing it. Guessing that's what I'm not sure.
It wasn't my case, but good point. He could articulate
something, right? Yeah, exactly. And that's all
you need to do. So and he did say we got him
from, you know, and he pointed to the coast.
But OK, so the case gets forgotten. And then
I think it was like a couple of months later,
they get another tip. There's some guys that
are out or a guy that's out on the bluff and
he has a backpack and it's, you know, a known
abalone poaching area. So again, we're in Freelance
thinking abalone poaching. Yeah, abalone poaching.
I'm sorry. But another tip from the public, basically.
Exactly. There's a suspicious guy out here with
a backpack poking around. Exactly. Which would
be consistent with an abalone poacher. For sure,
for sure. So he gets in his truck and he drives
down there as quick as he can. He sneaks up on
him. And the guy has a backpack and he ends up
searching the backpack and finds these darn plants,
deadliest. So now he's nowhere, he knows where
they're getting them, you know? And it turns
out he was able to look at video from the post
office. He was able to match it to this guy.
Same guy. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's awesome. So
then he's like, okay. Even better. And so he
ends up taking the guy back to his vehicle and
his vehicle's filled with a bunch of deadliest.
Bad guy's vehicle. But he's still going. okay
there's no mission game law i don't know what
to necessarily do but we definitely have you
know vandalism and there is a penal code law
that protects plants that mentions plants but
it doesn't really have any bite to it yeah okay
so it's kind of like what do i see it's just
like a very blanket i think i've looked at that
one it's like pc 182 maybe or something like
that where it's like just a general unlawful
remove plants from public land. Yeah, something
like that. And the fines not a big deal. Yeah,
I was it's not very scary. You know, it's not
something that's going to deter someone, you
know, so we try to throw in Are there any felonies?
No vandalism or what? And so he said, Okay, I'm
going to try and do this. We'll throw in vandalism.
And I I'm pretty certain this was the guy, he
actually had him go out there and put some of
the plants away because he's like, what do I
do? You know, whether it was successful or not,
those plants, who knows? But it was like, OK,
this is a new thing. I don't know what's going
on. But so Warren Frueling decides, you know,
I got to share this with people. This is the
second time. So I'm going to send out this email
to people, some key people, and just give them
a heads up. This is going on. And one of the
people was me. So I got the email and Dudley,
I see Dudley. And it turns out that when I was
in college, I worked for, I worked at the Arboretum
under Stephen McCabe and he is the Dudley expert.
In fact, I think he's probably the expert if
not. In the world, you know, he knows a lot about
deadliest. And so I remember him telling me about
there's certain species of deadliest or certain
species of them that are endangered and are only
in certain areas and all this stuff. And I remember
that and I got to work with them. So when I saw
deadly, I was like, oh, hey, this could be happening.
And yeah, this is not good. And I remember him
mentioning that they were being poached in certain
areas. So that's how. I actually learned about
it for the first time. So I let Warden Freeling
know, hey, if you get anything else in the other
cases, we're happy to help. We're on it. We're
interested in that. So this just piqued Soyou's
interest. Exactly, exactly. Probably also because
you smelled commercialization. Oh, for sure.
Yeah, there's no way they're taking that many
and just decorating their home. Yeah, exactly.
So then another tip comes in. And actually, I
shouldn't say another tip. It turned out... That
between the two cases they were able to get the
media involved. Okay, and so then people learn
for the first time Okay, people are going and
taking plants, you know, not abalone out on our
bluffs. This is interesting Okay, which is really
good because it's now educated the people and
and they're looking for it And so a tip comes
in and I see the tip we have this system called
cow tip So anyone can look and see and I see
and I'm like, okay We're going to look into this.
And so we end up looking into it. We end up making
our first deadly a case. And then we ended up
making a few more. Just little ones kind of off.
Yeah, they're a lot smaller than the one that
we're going to eventually talk about. But But
it involved like 800 plants, and these were people
coming from another country, from South Korea,
and so we busted them, and we got pretty good
results. We got $10 ,000 fines for them, and
they got kicked out of the country, and all the
plants seized. So again, it turned into a media
sensation, which was really good. Made a couple
other cases, but we started to realize... There's
a problem. And that was the laws were deficient.
There wasn't enough laws were being creative,
but sooner or later, someone's going to challenge
us. Vandalism. I was using conspiracy. I mean,
I was trying to really get creative on this because
I wanted it to have some bite, you know, but
there was no fish and game code. So why are you
guys even out there? You know, so that was one
of the challenges. The other challenge is we
realize that people were coming from other countries
and they were doing this. So it's like, well,
A random person comes to our country. They rent
a rental vehicle. They're only here for a short
time. In the middle of the night, they do this
thing. And it's like a needle in a haystack.
How do you catch these guys? But it also is very
organized, right? It smells. Oh, very, very,
very organized. Your detective sense is like,
this is something serious, right? Yeah. So eventually,
this would lead, you know, the media of sensation
would get out and we would get. the case. I'd
say it's the case of my career. It really is.
We would get a very interesting tip. Not like
any other we've ever gotten. Kind of blew it
out of the water. Yeah. What was the tip? So
the tip was from someone from South Korea, which
I've never gotten. I'm a state gamer. I'm sure
you guys get them all the time. So it's not a
big deal to you. Occasionally, yeah, we get the
foreign nationals that do call the tip line.
Yeah. So for me, no way. So it was like, what
the heck? But they had learned about this. Apparently,
it had reached different countries. And so they
knew that this person was coming to our country,
and they were poaching deadly. And so I'm all,
okay, cool. So I was able to get enough information,
it was basic stuff, but enough information to
find out who this person was. And so I'm like,
okay. So I contacted Customs and Border Patrol
and I said, hey, could you let me know if this
guy comes to our country? We wanna get on him,
he's committing these crimes. Right, and you
know, this is actually a perfect place where
the states can take advantage of the... abilities
of the US Fish and Wildlife Service because US
Fish and Wildlife Service can tap into those
US Customs and Border Protection and Homeland
Security Databases that give us heads up when
people are coming in out of the country exactly
exactly and eventually I would actually use one
of your agents and and she would Facilitate all
of that and letting us know because you know,
we're not used to yeah this kind of international
crime. I mean, we will work with other states
sometimes when you have cross state stuff. But
it's hard for you when it leaves California border
and your jurisdiction ends. Exactly. So it's
hard to do it. So and working with customs and
knowing how to do it, it's kind of like, what
the heck? So OK, so so anyway, you get this cool
tip that I'm like, all right. Korean guys coming
in. Exactly. To poach plants. So I get a call
from customs. He's coming in. OK. Yeah, he's
coming in he knew the date it was like in the
next day or two Yeah, they usually get a heads
up. Maybe sometimes a day or a few hours. Sometimes
exactly a little bit of notice and and we're
our team staged in Northern, California But we
had enough I should say we I had enough time
to get down here And set up a surveillance so
I'm like, okay, I'm ready So I wasn't able to
capture them at the airport because we didn't
have a full team But he wrote down you came in
down to LA So I came down to LAX and it was August
of 2018. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna try and
find this guy, but again, a deal and a haystack.
I'm like, oh my God, there's so many people and
I totally miss the guy. I'm trying to look, I
know what he looks like, Customs and Border Patrol,
gave me a picture of him, but there's like thousands
of people exiting, you know, it's the international
part and I'm like, okay, this is not gonna happen.
But Customs was able to provide me with information
on where at least he claimed he was staying.
So it was a hotel and I went to that hotel and
sure enough I ended up running into him. So right
on. So he ends up meeting with the gal. They
stay the night and the next morning I was joined
by a couple guys that were in SoCal so they can
help me with the surveillance. And they only
have one vehicle and it was the gal's vehicle.
He was sharing that. So when she left I thought,
well, you know, he's stuck there. Let's follow
and see what she's... So we ended up following
her to a international shipping company, Max
Cargo Inc. in Compton. And I'm like, well, this
is kind of interesting. They said there were
some interesting ways of how he was getting them
out of the country. Well, this looks pretty darn
interesting. Well, it turned out she worked there,
so we ended up leaving her. Exactly. And I went
back to the hotel, because I'm like, I don't
know, maybe he's going to Uber it up or something,
you know? So I ended up sitting at the hotel
for a while. you know he doesn't come out and
next thing I know the the housekeeper goes in
and he's not there and I'm like oh crud so he
had left when we had followed her somehow um
and he never came back so we stayed there for
a couple days never came back and I ended up
losing him so I learned that he was there for
a couple weeks but still we had we had our first
step we know the guy information yeah we have
this international company okay he's connected
to this export company exactly so you know Don't
give anything away as far as law enforcement
techniques. This kind of surveillance is very
labor intensive. Oh, very. Yeah. I mean, explain
to people how many how many state officers did
you have working on this surveillance? And this
would probably sounds like a light one. Yeah.
So so that particular one was probably only three.
But we would when we start getting the meat potatoes
of this case, we'll have like seven or eight.
Yeah, exactly. Because you're going around the
clock. Yeah. And it's like you got to rotate
people or people are going to get tired, you
know. And that kind of surveillance is it's hours
and hours of boredom sitting in a parking lot
watching. And you can't like be on your phone,
because if you're looking down, you'll miss what's
happening. Exactly. And then, but the funny thing,
I don't know if you agree with this or not, but
my experience was I'd sit in a parking lot for
hours and hours and hours with many other agents
on a team spread out around and you're watching.
and you're bored out of your mind, and then all
of a sudden the bad guy comes out, and you completely
forgot, you've been sitting there for six hours,
and now it's all fun. It's all worth it because
now the bad guy's doing something. Oh, totally.
Or when you're doing around -the -clock surveillance,
you know, what we would do is say, okay, everybody
go to sleep in your car, and one person's awake,
but have your radio cranked up, and that person
gets on the radio and says, oh, he's coming out,
and you have to jump up, your hair is going crazy,
and you're jumping in the front, and you're like,
oh my god, okay, it's just... have the hearts
beating you have the coca -colas the caffeine
whatever caffeine you'd have is has to be going
exactly it's fun but also crazy all right anyway
I mean interrupt but I think listeners will be
fascinated to know this goes on you know there
are teams of law enforcement officers working
a case and they might be in your neighborhood
and you'll never see them. You'll never know
they're there. We're in regular vehicles. Regular
vehicles. Might look like work vehicles. I wore
flip flops to school. I went to school to work.
I felt like I was in school. Shorts, yeah. Ponytail.
They'll never see them. They'll never know they
were there and you might have, yeah, half a dozen
to a dozen law enforcement officers in your,
right where you are watching somebody. Exactly.
Kind of cool. Exactly. But like everything, the
surveillance don't always work out perfectly.
Sometimes you lose them because you don't want
to get burned, right? You got to make sure they
don't see you. So sometimes that means you lose
them. Exactly. In this case, we didn't have enough
people and I lost them. But I said, OK, you know,
it sounded like from what the tip said, this
guy was coming here a lot. So I had a feeling
he'd be back. And he did spend two weeks in our
country. So he likely did some poaching. But
I got another tip. It was in October. beginning
of October 2018, and it was from Customs Guy
again, and he's like, he's coming back. Same
guy's coming back. And I'm like, cool. He's all,
but he's leaving that very day to Mexico. And
I'm like, okay. So he's coming into LA and then
immediately going to Mexico. Yeah. Okay. But
then I remember. What's this guy's name? Oh,
sorry. Yeah. Hey, that would help. Byung -Soo
Kim. Byung -Soo Kim. Byung -Soo Kim. South Korean
national. Yes, exactly. Have you named your case
yet at this point? Op Korean exports. Operation
Korean exports. Yeah, because they were coming
from Korea and they were exporting it supposedly,
you know, not very creative. I like it. That's
good. That's good. Operation Korean exports.
Okay, so Byung -Soo Kim comes in, then he's going
to Mexico. Why? And he has a partner, it turned
out. So we were able to identify him. It was
young and back. Okay. And so I'm like, okay,
they're going to Mexico. But that I knew. I remember
talking to the the expert that I worked for,
the Dudley expert, and Mexico has a species of
Dudley, a Dudley apacophytum that's endangered.
So I'm like, oh my God, he's going and doing
with that. And there's a lot of poaching involving
Dudley apacophytum and the same things are very,
very slow growers. And I remember, I think he
had a few there and he would be like, don't even
touch the leaves because there's a powder and
you can ruin them now and all this stuff, you
know. So it's a very sensitive species. And sure
enough, he was going to Mexico. So I'm like,
OK, this is. It fits. You know, it fits. Yeah,
the profile. So I found out when he was coming
back, he said he is going to return to the US.
And I said, OK. So then I decide, OK, the day
before he came back, I. drove all the way down
to LA and this time we had a team with them because
we're like okay it didn't work with just a few
of us. We need our surveillance team. You got
the full SOU team. Yes that's a full SOU team
and we're ready for him and we're sitting up
at LAX for his return and his partner and sure
enough they um we had a couple guys on foot at
the customs where you actually cross over and
they're they're no to alert us you know do the
little wing thing or whatever and we're watching
for them and we see them right when they cross
in which is good so our guys. At this point have
you linked up with U .S. Fish and Wildlife? We
have. We can get you into that part of the airport
really easily. You're the one who got us into
the airport. At this point, I said customs. I
think you guys were the ones who were facilitating
that relationship with them. But you guys definitely
got us in the airport because there was no way.
We were behind the scenes there with the customs
guys. This is what I love about when the Fish
and Wildlife Service works with the state agencies
the way it's supposed to happen. We are supposed
to be your FBI. Yeah. And if you have something
going on outside the jurisdiction of your jurisdiction
beyond the state borders, US Fish and Wildlife
can step in and be a huge help to you. Totally.
And it's not about stealing cases. No. It's about
us bringing our resources to you so you guys
can make a case. In fact, I'm not even sure.
Doing surveillance without being in that position
where we see them cross customs from the minute
they come in Because it's just a fan right they
all come out and how do you find again? It's
a needle in a haystack But in this case the agent
the Fish and Wildlife Service agent was able
to take us literally right there And they had
it set up that when they got alert they're crossing
over now or this is him, right? We were able
to follow from that point on so we also had some
folks out on the streets in plane vehicles And
so we watched them arrived they got on a bus
to a rental car facility and we followed them
there and they ended up renting a car and that
began the whole thing you know and now you're
in what they call a rolling surveillance exactly
you're in cars and you're following these people
where'd they go from the airport so from the
airport they ended up um initially they went
to the hotel they stayed the night in la yeah
and in the morning they went to a nursery, which
made me a little concerned. I'm like, oh gosh,
so maybe they're getting these things from a
nursery. So all we know is they went to this
nursery called Secret Garden Nursery in Vista.
So this is kind of like San Diego area, Vista,
California is where it's at. So we're like, okay,
we weren't able to set up surveillance on the
nursery at this time, but we knew that that's
where they went. And we're like, okay, well,
let's see. It's still, we might have a case.
So anyways. We end up following them to Costco.
They leave the nursery, go to a Costco, and we
look in the car. We're able to peer in through
the windows, and we notice there's backpacks
in there, and there's boxes, and we're like,
okay, you know, if you're going to a nursery,
you're not going to say, hey, thank you for my
plant, and throw it in a backpack. So now we're
hopeful. They're going collecting. So sure enough,
we keep following them. They end up going to
the airport, picking up a third person, and that
was Bong Ju Kim, and then they start heading
north. When I mean north, I mean 850 miles north.
Holy smokes. Instead of flying into San Francisco,
they fly into LA and then they go north. Well,
because the connection to the nursery, it will
be connected later on. There's a lot more to
it. At first I thought are they buying plants
there? But it will turn out that they were using
that as their hub. Got it. So yeah, so they get
in their car and off we go and we had no idea
where we're going right we're just following
and we do this long trek all the way up to Crescent
City and it was a long one and then they find
a hotel and they get to sleep and we have to
stay we're 24 hours right now people are rotating
you're sleeping in your car and you know there's
there's so many logistics that go into that so
there's There's stationary surveillance and that
can be tricky in a rural or an urban setting.
And that's where you're sitting in the car and
you're bored out of your mind or watching somebody.
Then there's what's called rolling surveillance,
where you're actually in vehicles following somebody
and you can't change lanes when they change lanes.
You can't make a right turn when they make a
right turn. It's a very units that do a lot of
rolling surveillance and know how to do it. They're
very well trained. They're very well practiced.
They work as a team. They communicate very well
and they're almost invisible. right? The bad
guys do not know they're there. But then you
switch from you're doing this rolling surveillance
in an urban environment like LA, which has to
be pretty tight. It's easy to lose people in
traffic. Then you get out on the highway. And
now that's a whole different kind of rolling
surveillance where it's pretty loose. Yeah. But
now you're at higher speeds and you got to stop
for gas and you got to time it. Yep. It's complicated.
Oh, yeah. And you're having to fill up your gas.
Yeah. That's what I mean. You got to get gas,
right? You're like rotating people. Okay, I'm
breaking off for gas. Somebody's got to use the
bathroom. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So this
is awesome. Yeah. So 800 mile rolling surveillance.
And we're already on them. Like I said, we came
the day before and Then we start setting them
up when they're sleeping in the hotel back in
Vista, we were up all night as well. Doing the
one person awake. Exactly, sleeping in your car
the best you can so we end up following him.
to Crescent City. You're exhausted. So now you're
in a rural environment, which is really tricky
for surveillance. Super hard. There's not all
these cover cars that you could get in between
them. It's you, right? So yeah, it's a little
tricky. So they wake up in the morning and we're
like, OK, let's see what happens. And sure enough,
they drive to the coast. OK, they drive to De
Martin State Beach, it was called. And it's also
known as like North Coast. redwood state park
i think is the other name and they park there
and sure enough they get out with their backpacks
okay game on it's happening right That's also
true. Now everything's worth it, right? Exactly.
You totally forgot. Thank God they're not buying
them. Well, it would have been nice if they were
buying them from nursery, but clearly they're
not. They're here to poach, you know. But now
you've totally forgotten about all the hassle
you've been through for the last eight hours.
Exactly. Exactly. Okay. And they have these empty
backpacks on. Nice. Who hikes with empty backpacks,
right? I mean, okay, they're going to put something
in it. We're thinking. I love it. What'd you
see? What'd you see? What'd you see them do?
Okay, so what we see is we see them start hiking
out. and hiking out and hiking out. And they
go a mile away from the beach. Yeah. And they're
going over rocks and we would later find ropes
where they would use ropes to climb over these
big boulders. I mean, they were pretty hardcore.
Yeah. So they went really far out to an area
we called Split Rock. It was this huge. Cathedral
like rock and it was split in the middle. So
we just named it split rock I don't know if they
actually called it that way but doing surveillance
on that was a little tricky super tricky Yeah,
so we had a really far point that we can watch
them from but it's not like we could just walk
along the beach No behind them because no one's
going out that far and they would see you even
though there were areas where there were boulders
You could hide behind them. The problem is is
you'd have to go in these open areas So well
and God forbid you you're seen hiding Yeah, way
out there. That's not going to... You can't be
like ducking behind boulders because they're
definitely going to know you're a cop. Exactly.
And even if they said, okay, someone hiking,
that's only going to fly once, right? Once or
twice. Same person hiking the next day. Nah,
it's not going to add up. So we're like, okay,
but we need to see what they're doing. So how
do we do that? So we found that there was this
vista, this little turnout that we can hike and
it was pretty steep, hike down through all this
shrub and we could get down there and we had
cover and we can actually watch them from that.
Nice. Perfect. So myself and Warden Bagdasarian,
we did that part and we have people, when you're
doing surveillance, you have people that... are
doing this part of it. We were the follow team
on foot. We have someone who's watching from
afar with their spotting scope. You have other
people that are set up on the car when it returns.
Other people ready for the follow. I mean, there's
all these different positions. So we decide to
height down this bluff. And I learned that North
Coast has steamy nettle. Oh, the hard way. We're
back to Syria and I were trying to be really
cool and stealth and hike down this deep bluff
end up falling down into this really deep. I
don't know. It's kind of a hole in both of us.
It takes us both out and I'm like, what is this
kind of tingling? He's all it's nettle is stinging
that I'm like, oh great. So but anyways, we end
up extracting ourselves from this very stinging
nettle stuff that I didn't even know we had.
We end up getting a great point and we end up
watching them and They're climbing up on the
bluffs and sure enough. They're pulling out these
big old clumps of Dudley Tossing them down to
each other Wow, and it was all three of them
were doing it and interesting They would actually
take off all the soil from them and they were
sorting them and putting them in backpacks and
stuff like that and then we continue to watch
and they did this for hours and we noticed that
there would be one person at a time watch Acting
is kind of the lookout you'd see that they would
walk up to a boulder look around make sure no
one was coming and do some stuff like that interesting
So we watched all this and they filled up their
backpacks with these Dudleyas and they were like
I said Climbing up the these cliffs and stuff
stepping all over the other vegetation doing
a lot of damage Yeah, exactly all this erosion
and things so they get their backpacks field
and then they start hiking back. And the thing
about hiking back, in this particular case, we
decide, well, we are going to try to risk it
because you're more likely, oh, on the first
one, I don't think we didn't follow them in,
but on a future one, we would actually follow
them in, but hide behind rocks and be a little
more stealthy. But on this one, we stayed where
we were and we sort of did, but not too much
because we were kind of... You're being conservative,
you know, when you start getting more familiar
with the surveillance, you start taking bigger
risks. Exactly. But this was the first time.
So in this case, we were just kind of staying
kind of far if we could. And so when they start
hiking and we noticed they're using radios and
they kind of split up and one person, they end
up dropping the backpack and leaving it. And
when they get close to the beach with their cars.
He goes in without the backpack. The backpack's
left behind. So they're smart. He's looking around,
you know, and then he starts, they're using hand
signals and he ends up flagging the other guys
in and they end up. going back to the car with
the backpacks. You know what? Nothing says intent
better than that. I love it. Don't you? Reduce,
communicate. Yeah. You know you're breaking the
law when you're doing stuff like that. You can't
claim I didn't know it was illegal. Exactly.
Those are the best suspects. Oh, totally. Because
it's like no mercy, right? They know they're
breaking their law. Exactly. No sympathy for
those guys. So we end up following them. They
go to a Safeway and we end up videoing them,
sorting out the Dudleias and putting them in
those boxes we mentioned and some totes. Like
in the Safeway parking lot? Yeah. So in the Safeway
parking lot, they're actually sorting them out.
and then they go back. But this time, they end
up with that Vista I talked to you about, they
end up parking there. Well, not parking there,
pulling into that Vista area and two guys jump
out of the car and the other guy drives away.
So now they're doing drop -offs and he parks
at the beach and they hike down the same area.
I'm like, oh crud, that we had heights down.
They went down that way. Where you're in the
nettles, where you're hiding in the nettles.
Exactly. And they ended up having backpacks.
I don't know. if somebody else or if it was us,
they kind of got him hinked up, got a little
scared, and they end up leaving empty -handed.
They stashed what they had. Yeah. So we saw them
harvesting, and yet they left empty -handed,
and we walked down there and we found piles of
Dudleya. So I think maybe they got a little nervous.
Sometimes, you know, they get spooked about stuff
that has nothing to do with the surveillance
team. And you're right. They might have seen
the same car drive through that was just a tourist
and it happened to drive through twice. Exactly.
Exactly. In fact, you know, what was funny is
during this case, when we were getting ready
to hike down the Vista one of the days, someone
was it was a Vista. So it's a beautiful view.
So tourists park there every now and then, you
know, just stop for the little quick shoot. You
know, can't control the public. Exactly. And
they sent off a drone. Oh, and I'm like, what's
going on? And sure enough, we see this drone
and law enforcement doesn't like to be video,
especially when you're undercover. Yeah. So that
was kind of funny. But anyways, we end up watching
them for a few days. And on the third day, I
thought, OK, this is you know, we're pretty tired
by now around the clock surveillance. This is
getting old. So I end up getting a tracker warrant.
We end up installing it on the vehicle. And and
one of the hardest things to do when you're the
case agent is saying we need to pull off for
now and people need a little rest. Yeah, that's
a hard call to make. And I decided we're gonna
do it. We've got the tracker on. We already had,
we had watched them for three days. Yeah, you
know what they're doing. Doing it. Yeah. Documented
everything you need to document. Exactly. We've
got it all on video. Beautiful video showing
them pulling these clumps and stuff. And so let's
take a break. And what we're gonna do is when
they start heading back, see what the heck they're
doing with these things. Right. And so sure enough.
That was smart. Yeah, so so so we end up doing
that we all go home and then I got to interrupt
because I realized some of our listeners might
not want to not know what a tracker is they'll
probably assume but basically a tracker is a
G it's a uh item you put on a car and it gives
you uh gps coordinates of that vehicle and you
can kind of monitor it remotely yeah and it's
real time it's real time and it's real and you
do have to have a warrant to put it on somebody's
vehicle now you do you didn't didn't use to but
now you do we used to love to go slap slap trackers
on people's cars but yeah you do have to have
a warrant now supreme court ruling but uh the
thing about GPS trackers is they'll tell you
where a car's where cars going, but they won't
tell you what the people are doing. Exactly.
You got to have that eyes on to see what they
do where they go. But in your case, you'd already
documented what they were doing. So now you just
need to kind of make sure you know where they
are. Yeah. And we were able they ended up staying
there for I think it was about a week. They were
going to the beach. So they're taking a lot of
exactly exactly. Wow. So we're like, okay, this
is going on. We want to see what what's going
to happen with these guys. Now, what do they
do with them once they got them? Exactly, exactly.
So what you can do also with a tracker is ping
like you could say, OK, if they leave this area,
ping me, you know, but I'm also I'm actively
on my computer watching what these guys are doing.
And sure enough, I see him start heading south.
And I'm like, you guys, I think it's probably
about time and I think they're leaving. So we
end up getting in our cars and start heading
north and we end up intersecting them in reading,
which is probably. I'm not gonna guess four hours
is a ways from them, but we end up intercepting
actually I intercept them there and then I meet
up with the rest of the team in Sacramento and
we follow them all the way down to Vista. Wow.
And they got a late start, so we didn't get back
to Vista till three in the morning. So that was
very hardcore. One of those where you're going,
wake up, you know, and you have the air conditioning
on, it's winter, you know, you're trying to stay
awake. Yeah. So that was a pretty hardcore follow,
but we made it. And of course they get to go
to sleep and the hotel and we have to stay up.
But then the next morning we had an idea that
they might be going to that nursery, you know?
So we had done some pre -surveillance on that
nursery to find out is there any lookout points
and so forth. And so we were able to find a spot.
It was kind of a weird thing through a neighborhood
and stuff where we can actually watch them when
they went up to this nursery and they went into
this nursery and parked in front of one of the
greenhouses and start offloading all the plants.
when they start going into this nursery. So I'm
like, this is really interesting. So what are
they doing here? So we watched that, get that
all on video, and then sure enough, I'm like,
okay, we've got a lot. In fact, it's time to
start writing some paperwork, some search warrants,
arrest warrants, and those sort of things. But
they get in the vehicle and they start heading
north again. I'm like, ah, crud. Without the
plants now. The plants get left there. And this
is that, what's the name of the nursery? Secret
garden in Vista, California. Okay, so they leave
the plants there. Yes. And when I say the nursery,
I should say this is a huge nursery. Okay. And
they have all these greenhouses. Yeah. And so
we would later find out that they rented a greenhouse.
So the nursery didn't have no idea. They weren't
part of this. They just rented this greenhouse
and this guy was doing, you know, business. Okay.
So I don't think that they had any idea of what
was going on. So what was your impression at
this point? Well, at this point, you probably
didn't know. But ultimately, what do you think?
My first thought when you said they were taking
things to a nursery was they were going to try
to launder it and make it look like it was. you
know, propagated here. You get a gold star. Oh,
is that what they were doing? Because that's
what's going to happen. Oh, you told the secret.
I'm sorry. Well, when you were talking and I
was saying, well, oh, maybe they're just using
that as a storage facility, but they were going
to launder. Oh, they would do some really secret
stuff. So at this point, we're like, OK, we've
got to split because I've got to start writing
some serious paperwork, right? All the warrants
and you know, the not so fun stuff. And so we
send the team off and this time they go to Sonoma
Coast, which isn't as far, maybe 600 miles. It
isn't as far north. It's more central. coast,
you know, just above San Francisco. And they
sure enough, they do more harvesting. More poaching.
Oh, yeah. Geez. Yeah, a lot more poaching. And
they watch them do that. And while I'm simultaneously
getting this paperwork done. And I decided I
remember I talked to some folks and they said
that they don't do Ramey warrants, which are
arrest warrants for individuals. Someone had
told me that. Yeah. So explain a Ramey warrant.
We never use those in the federal system, but...
So we rarely use them too. And I was told LA
didn't do it, but it turns out it's wrong. But
it's where you actually want them to not just
put in jail and get arrested. You actually want
there to be an arrest warrant, so they have to
actually go to jail and actually go through the
whole system of meeting with a judge and that
sort of thing. It's more of a conservative way
of doing things. And I went that route because
these guys... are from South Korea and at any
time they can just leave the country, right?
This makes it a little different than what we
would call in the business a PC arrest, right?
Yeah, so PC signing off and saying you have met
you have probable cause I have probable cause
I've met it and we have I mean I'm showing them
pictures of my the deadly and stuff and he's
like oh overwhelming yeah in fact I thought I
had beyond a reasonable doubt at that point you
know so so for our listeners the difference here
is sometimes an officer whether they're federal
or state will be out in the field they will encounter
somebody committing a crime the officer will
make the determination I have probable cause
to arrest this person. They'll make the arrest
on the spot. That's called a PC arrest. Yep,
exactly. And this Ramey warrant is, and feds
do this too. We'll go to a judge in advance.
And they order it. Yeah, we usually do it through
what's called a complaint in the federal system.
And we'll say, here's the facts we got, judge.
We'll swear it in front of the judge. And then
they'll say, I agree. You have probable cause.
I authorize you to go arrest them. Exactly. Yeah.
So it's a little bit like you said, you kind
of go, the minute the handcuffs go on, it's a
little bit It's a beefier kind of warning. Yeah,
it's safe. But judges signed off on it. This
is bigger time. Yeah, exactly. So I wanted to
make sure everything was good because of this
whole international connection. That was smart.
That was really smart. Because these guys will
flee as we might find out. The other thing was
is, you know, a tricky thing as a state warden
and maybe with you guys too. Given the fact that
they're going to Crescent City, they're going
to Sonoma, they're going to San Diego. These
are three different counties. They're going to
LA. So we have all these different places. And
it's a state game where I get to pick where I
want to prosecute. Same for the feds. Okay. And
I usually want to pick where the crime happened.
And although the crime's being taken back to
San Diego and eventually they would ship it,
the people that were wronged were the Northern...
people and they take it a lot more serious. You're
here in my area, my backyard. Yeah. And still,
and they take it personally. So I wanted, and
I needed to get them from San Diego to Crescent
city, which would eventually be a big deal. So
anyways, they ended up falling back. Same thing
happens. They end up taking the Dudley as to
the nursery and we watched the offload. So we're
like, okay. Um, and then something curious happens.
Young Sue Kim drives to a county office. An inspector
to where they do inspection plan inspection.
I'm going what? You know, and he meets up with
the county inspector. So and he he makes some
sort of arrangement. We we didn't know what was
going on, but then he leaves and we go in there
idea herself and say what the heck's going on
here? We find out he set up an appointment for
that day for them to inspect this plants. And
I'm like inspect the plants he poached. What
can I see the paperwork? Sure enough, it says
that they. got them all in San Diego is where
they got all the plants and from the nursery.
Yeah, exactly. So and so now he's going to try
and make this a legitimate business by having
this inspector who doesn't know he didn't watch
all the surveillance, right? Sign off on it.
And now it'd be good to go as soon as he does
that. Right. So like, OK, so we let them in on
it. Hey, you know. Okay, now I got sorry to interrupt
you again, because the reason he's doing this
is because this is awesome. He's smart guy. Oh,
yeah. When you export plants legally from the
US, you have to have what's called a site phytosanitary
permit certificate. And that's just to ensure
that there's no pests or diseases on the plants
before they're moving international commerce.
Exactly. So yeah, so he's setting it up for easy.
I didn't even know this. Beautiful launderer.
Well, another great reason to have the feds involved,
right? Because we deal with this crap all the
time. Yeah, I'm like a Fido what? You know? Yeah,
I can't even pronounce it, but some sort of...
So now you have, you talk about interagency though.
So now you have the feds, the state, and now
you have a county inspector that's involved.
And, you know, and we're always, you know, who
are you going to let know what's going on? But
we decide, hey, you know, we're going to tell
them what's going on. And we get that we convince
them to let one of our officers go in with them.
Nice. To do the inspection on the plants. So
we can video and hear what's going on. Yeah,
absolutely. They were very cooperative. Brilliant.
So we go in there and they inspect the plants
and they had taken, apparently part of the thing
of getting a phytosanitary certificate, you can't
have any soil. That's why they were getting all
the soil off. Yeah, so you can't have any soil
on it. They have to be clean plants because I
guess that's where some of the pests are. So
they have to have really clean plants. And so
the inspector inspects them all. And on the phytosanitary
certificate, he had claimed there was like, I
don't know exact number, it was around 1 ,400
plants. Well, we would later learn after counting
it was actually three thousand seven hundred
fifteen Okay, that so he was only claiming about
sixty percent of what he was taken and that's
important because later we'd look at other phytosanitary
certificates that he filled out So anyway, so
he fills out this certificate we get it all on
video and his lies got him from San Diego And
you know so forth so the county officer blesses
them because that was what he would normally
do and during this inspection Byung -soo Kim
is there Yeah, yeah, exactly. So he can answer
questions from your guy who's posing as an agriculture
inspector. To our guys there talking to him,
seeing what's going on. Oh, it's fantastic. It
was beautiful. I love it. Again, at this point,
we're beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm like, come
on, bring it on. The case is made. Yeah, so this
is beautiful. This is great. So I also would
talk to the county inspector and find out that
he has been getting biosanitary certificates
since 2013. And I'm like, oh, OK. And eventually
I'd get a, I don't know if I got a warrant, just
a cooperation. I don't want to get too far ahead,
but I would inspect those and get some really
interesting information. Yeah. So Byung -Soo
Kim's been doing this for years, since 2013 and
we're at 2019 now, right? Yeah, exactly. 2018,
2018. So anyways, we finished the whole county
thing and they load them all into boxes. There
was 37 boxes to get them all in the rental vehicle
and two rental vehicles. They ended up doing
another rental vehicle. and they end up driving
to Max Cargo Inc. On the first inspection that
ended up being a failure, they end up taking
these plants there. This is the place that on
your very first surveillance when you had the
light team, the woman he met with went to this
Max Cargo in Compton. Yes, exactly. So I'm like,
okay, here we are, and that must be his connection,
you know? And sure enough, it would be. That's
his export connection. Exactly. Nice. So we end
up, okay, now the time is when are we going to
jam them? When are we going to do it? But we
wanted to get, I had written what they call an
anticipatory warrant. So it means that if these
things are met, because I had an idea it was
going to get shipped because I knew that they
had gone to this international shipping company.
So I said, if they go there. and drop off these
plants, I want to be able to search the plants
and so forth. So I set up the center store. Triggers
the warrant when that happens. So I had a ton
of plans. I had a search warrant for that, arrest
warrants for all three suspects, search warrant
for the car, search warrant for the nursery.
So all this was done ahead of time. And I was
like, okay, we're ready. But now when do we do
it? So I said, okay, let's wait till he gets
to the actual... you know we need them to deliver
the plant so we can activate that part. So sure
enough he backs up offloads all the plants in
a beautiful little sack and we're videoing all
this and then we had uniforms officers on standby
because they do a lot of the help with the transportation
and things like that and we all move in all at
once. So did you let him drop off and leave and
then pull him over? No no you just hit him right
when he dropped him off because we wanted him
there when because it's wonderful to open up
the box. This is what I'm talking about right
in front of them. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's kind
of like Oh, that is such a such a rewarding that
the takedown is always so rewarding man when
you especially when you see those uniforms coming
in and you're like This is this dude is done.
Yeah We like the dramatics the officers come
in and we don't just bring it it was several
after Coming in and then we walk in with her,
you know playing clothes and we were there with
Fish and Wildlife Service agent. So at that time,
Agent Laura Chi had joined us as well. So she
was there. She was going to help with the interviews
and also with the search warrants. So of course,
we open the boxes and we already know what's
going to be in them. And they're labeled live
plants, you know, and so we get that all on video.
This is the beauty of his plan. He's smuggling
in plain sight. That's the beauty of his plan.
Out of all of them, this was our smartest one.
He was well organized. We found out he had been
doing this since 2013. I mean, this guy, he is
a hardcore trafficker. Oh, yeah. Completely.
There's no question about it. Completely. Like
I said, we would add up. those plants, and there
would be 3 ,715 just in this load. So we would
also go and inspect, well we got a search warrant
on his cell phone too, I got that. I would find
photographs of him in other countries, I believe
poaching plants, including Mexico. Oh, this is
funny, I have to mention this. I would also find
a news article of one of my prior Dudley cases.
Where I had busted them and it says that they
were convicted of felonies, $10 ,000 fines. So
he went there knowing all this information, right?
So I'm like, okay. I mean, that was beautiful
being able to show that, you know, I mean, that
gives you, you've got that shows knowledge, knowledge
of the law. Then you've got this, this, uh, you
know, when you did your surveillance, he's leaving
the backpack till he gets to the parking lot.
Then he's motioning people to bring it in after
he checks to me. So there's intent. Right. So
you know, he's got knowledge of the law and he's
intentionally violating it. Boy, that's a total
disregard of the law. Right. Because he knows.
And the thing is, $10 ,000 fine. Each suspect
got that. We had seized $10 ,200 from him. We
got to keep that. They got kicked out of the
country forever, you know. So all these things
happened to the prior suspects. He was still
willing to come. That means that that's just
the price of doing business. It was still worth
the risk. to come here, which tells me they're
getting a pretty darn good reward, right? Which
brings me to everybody's going to want to know
this 3000 plants you stopped at that moment.
What do you think just those are worth overseas?
So actually new. It was over $600 ,000. I'm going
to go, why the heck did I know? Well, how do
you know? It was wonderful. One of my prior cases,
the lady was wonderful enough to actually make
a price list and it was based on the number of
heads. So Dudley, when they start to mature,
they'll branch out into these different heads.
So they form this beautiful rosette, but they're
these different stocks. I'm going to call them
heads, but there's these stocks. And then there's
a beautiful rosette head on each of them. So
if it was one head, it would be worth $100. But
I also, and I didn't just use her price list,
but I had her price list and she was selling
them, this lady was, and she had all this. We
found them on the internet, but we also found
a Korean website. And they were also selling
Dudlia Farinosa, the Dudlia that we were finding
on our coast. And so I was able to use those
numbers too, to actually come up with an exact
number. And I don't remember it was 602 something.
I don't remember exactly, but $602 ,000 this
load. That's incredible. Based on head. So unfortunately
someone had to count. How many heads? How many
had one head? How many had two heads? Cause each
was a different price. If it was a five head,
it was worth upward of $2 ,500. So I'm like,
okay, we need to sort these, we need to create
this chart and come up with this price because
I want to be able to tell the judge. You're already
thinking ahead to sentencing. Yeah, that's good.
What the heck is that? So we did those search
warrants on that. We did the search warrant at
the nursery, found the backpacks, found the radios.
Um, but they had stashed a lot of stuff there
and it made us believe that they were, you know,
this was a base of operation. They're coming
back, you know? Well, luckily they weren't going
to cause we're going to know. But the plan was
they're coming back. When I got the Ramia warrant,
I looked at the judge. I said, yeah, you know,
I think they're, you know, they're, oh, we had
found out that they did have a flight booked.
that your agent or Fish and Wildlife Service
agent had determined they were going to fly out
that night. Wow, you just caught him. You just
caught him. So that was another reason why. And
I had told the judge, you know, they have this
flight when he signed the Ramey warrant, you
know, to leave tonight. He's all they're not
leaving tonight. And he laughs and I'm like,
yeah, they're not nice. So we end up interviewing
them at that facility. And they were very cooperative.
I don't think the management actually knew. I
mean, by now, they're legitimate. Bidosanitary
certificates. Yeah, the export companies just
like a stooge really they don't exactly so they
don't know they were very cooperative. They let
us even use their conference room where we interviewed.
So he's under arrest, you've Mirandized him and
he agrees to talk. Yeah. Okay. And he confesses
everything. Really? They all do. Okay. But what
we learned you hook up at that moment at the
Compton Place, Byungsu Kim and who anybody else?
All three. So they were all three there, Byung
-Soo Kim, Young -In -Bak, and Bong -Joon Kim.
Nice. Yeah, all three were in the same place.
So it was really easy. We were just having, and
we had the uniforms, so we'd be like, okay, you
guys wait here while we go interview suspect
one. It was myself and Agent Chi. And Agent Chi
with Fish and Wildlife Service, she actually
said, you know, I'll take the lead on the interview.
She said, sure, why not? You know, and I'll sit
there and throw in any questions that I needed.
And she got him to confess everything. And we
found out from young and back, he said, you know,
I'm, I'm working, I'm an employee for Byungsuk
Kim. Okay. Um, so we found that out, but him
and Byungsuk Kim really knew each other for a
while. Um, Bong Ju Kim also admitted, Hey, I
didn't even really know these two. I met him
on a previous flight. I was looking for a job.
I had mentioned this. He took my name. All of
a sudden I get a call when I'm in South Korea
from this guy saying you want to come to America.
I'll pay you, I think it was, I'll pay for everything
when you're there, your flight, your hotel, everything.
You won't have any expenses. I'll give you $1
,700 is what they told me. told them for this
amount of time that he was there. So but they
eventually admit to knowing it was illegal. Nice.
Which is nice. Those statements are nice. I'm
using radios and so forth. So it was beautiful.
We're like, this is wonderful. So we end up booking
them. You book them in in L .A., but your charges
are going to be out of Crescent City. So that
in itself was a challenge. Yeah. How the heck
am I going to get three guys from point A to
point B because nobody else is going to do it
for you? You know, they've got their own. Did
you transport them up there? So. I arranged,
believe it or not, I arranged it for, I think
it's LA officers. They were going to Stockton.
I said, okay, can you take them to the Stockton
jail? Yes. Okay. Stockton, can they stay overnight?
Yes. Okay. Then they were going to Sacramento's,
a hub for prisoner exchange hub. So I said, can
you take them to Sacramento? then they were drove
driven to Sacramento because we couldn't do it
because we're not really trained to transport
long -distance yeah because you got a feed house
we just that was a little complicated we didn't
know what the rules of the games were so they
stayed the night I had it so I'm talking to LA
go to stockton arrange for them to keep them
overnight then I get somebody to take them to
Sacramento then I convinced Eureka hey they said
we're gonna go pick up somebody anyways we'll
pick up your guys and we'll take them to Eureka
like Eureka sheriff's office or or fish and wildlife.
It was either the sheriff or the police department.
I don't remember which one, but it's not us.
I'll tell you what, man, the best people are
getting linked up with for prisoner transport
or sheriff's department. It probably was them.
Yeah, exactly. Or US marshals, one or the other.
So they end up taking them to Eureka, which is
like about an hour from Creston City, but I still
need to get them to Creston City, but Creston
City then agreed, you get them to Eureka some
miraculous way, we'll go down to Eureka and pick
them up. And that's what happened. So that in
itself was an adventure, but it happened. And
then so we ended up starting with the court process,
which... as you know, can take a long time. And
so I don't want to get in too much detail on
that, but we'll skip ahead to the juicy part
that happened. So basically what happens after
somebody is arrested, of course, they have an
opportunity to appear in front of a judge. They're
going to enter a plea and they'll figure out
whether they hire private counsel or they get
public defenders, whatever, depending on their
resources. But then then the court. process starts.
And one of the first things that a judge is going
to consider, of course, every defendant is going
to ask for bail or to be let out pending future.
And to me, I think it's insane that any judge
would ever let a foreign national out. But it
happens in both the federal and state system
that foreign nationals do get bail. And in this
case, these guys asked for bail. And did they
all three get bail? And you know what? I even
begged. I was there in court and the district
attorney said do you want to talk and try and
convince him I said absolutely yeah, and I said
these guys have been doing it they know and Oh,
and one thing that I hadn't mentioned so the
money's huge so the flight risk is even gets
huger Yeah, so remember I said that they have
these phytosanitary certificates So I went back
and I looked and they had been coming since 2013
since 2013 between 2013 and 2018 Byung -soo Kim
claimed to have taken over 120 ,000 plants. What?
On paper. Whoa. So I knew he had taken, remember
we're just talking 3 ,715 on this one, but he
has taken over this time period over 120 ,000.
But didn't he, on his, on his permits, wasn't
he claiming a lot less than 3 ,000? he was only
claiming about 60 percent so that's probably
what 170 and this is a lot so if you assume he
did that every time but what's on paper is how
many 120 over 112 it was like 122 something 122
000 so if we assume that's 60 70 percent of the
reality yeah oh my gosh so i'm telling the judges
this guy's been doing this forever please don't
let him out on bail but sure enough yeah and
you know you know what happens a lot with the
judges in the federal system as well They'll
have the foreign national, and they'll say, ah,
we'll let you out on bail, but maybe you have
to pay a bail. And you have to give up your passport.
That is a bunch of crap, OK? Because I don't
know why judges don't know this, but if you're
an American and you're traveling overseas and
you lose your passport or somebody steals it,
you just go to the local American embassy, they'll
give you a new one. Yeah. And in Los Angeles
or San Francisco, big cities, South Korea has
a consulate. Yep. And it takes nothing for somebody
to go get a replacement passport. So turning
in your passport as a condition of release means
nothing. Well, and we had ceased their passports.
Oh, you did. But who cares, right? They don't
care. And I thought, well, I got the passport.
And the judge probably was like, well, we have
the passports and you're going to pay the bail.
And we're talking about 600 ,000 in one shipment.
Bail was how much? Do you remember? I don't.
I don't. They did have a bail bond guy, but yeah.
They're willing to skip that bail. They don't
care. They were willing and they did. Oh yeah.
Yeah. These guys had a lot of money. So, okay.
So they get out on bail on the state charges
and this is where it gets a little weird. Do
you mind if I tell the federal side? Yes. Because
I don't really know it. So. Because these guys
were once they turned the the plants over to
the Exporter they had placed it into international
commerce So that part was done and what happened
was that triggers what's called the Lacey act?
Which is a federal law and if you export wildlife
or plants If you if you move them in interstate
commerce or try to export them Plants taken in
violation of state law. You are now committing
a federal offense under the Lacey Act and their
whole That triggers that whole thing of it's
now leaving California's jurisdiction. It's hard
for California to enforce So it becomes a federal
offense so the feds can get involved anyway,
so When they turn those plants over to that Compton
export or whatever. What's it called mega? Max
cargo once they turn it over to that max cargo
in Compton they've They've committed it to international
commerce. So they've committed that Lacey act
violation. And so what what the feds did, and
I don't really understand. I think if my recollection
is correct, I was at the time, although I spent
most of my career in Los Angeles at the time,
I was based in Africa on a five year assignment
to be an agent over in Africa. I was in South
Africa and jealous. I know it was pretty hard
work. Let me tell you, it was hard work actually,
but it was pretty cool anyway. So what I recollect
from talking to the supervisor here in LA is
that We started to get concerned the Fed started
to get concerned that Young Soo Kim and his crew
were going to jump bail and so We went ahead
and filed our charges and that was in I believe
December of 2018 Okay. Yeah, it's toward the
end of the year. Yeah, so we were getting worried
they were gonna run And so we filed. And then
we got an arrest warrant for them as well, too.
So they ended up getting arrested by the feds
as well. And they got bail from the feds. Oh,
I didn't know that. Yeah. Holy cow. Twice. Yeah.
I think I think that's what happened. I will
double check that and make sure that that's updated
on our website. But I think they got arrested
by the feds. But I do remember you guys were
going to arrest them. And I remember, yeah. I
know there is an arrest warrant in the court
records for these guys. And there was a complaint
issued. I don't know if we actually hooked them
up or they fled before. But now we're going to
jump to these guys flee, right? What they did
is exactly what you would do. Of course. They
went to the South Korean consulate and they said
their passports were stolen in Santa Monica.
Yeah, and they got new passports and then they
immediately went to Mexico. So I don't know if
I told you this because they would end up going
I think you guys told us Mexico then China and
then South Korea so um I would call Customs and
Border Patrol and say, hey, can you stop them?
I'm naive. Like you said, you guys know how to
deal with this. I don't. Can you stop them there
and tell them we want them back? I'm so naive,
right? Stop them in like China or South Korea
or whatever? Yeah, we talked to them. We said,
hello, but they don't want to come back. And
that was that. You know, I was so naive because
I'm like, well, it all worked out very pretty
when you guys did it, you know? So, yeah, that
wasn't very successful. So here they are. Actually,
two of them fled. The other one you guys ended
up arresting, Bong Ju Kim, I remember you guys
did get, and ended up prosecuting. Maybe that's
what it was, is that I think we had the arrest
warrant for Byung Soo Kim and the other one,
one of the other ones, and they fled before we
could get them. Yeah, they got into Mexico, but
you got nailed the other one. Okay, that's what
it was. We never actually took, okay, so we never
took Byung Soo Kim and the other one into custody.
Exactly. They fled before we could get them.
That's what happened, but we had charged them.
That's what it was. So they didn't get federal
bail. They got state bail. Yeah, fled on that.
And then we did manage to grab that other guy
before he got out. That's that's what happened.
So now I'm crying. Oh, my gosh. Now what? The
hours that the man it was just it was it was
dreadful. Yeah, it was dreadful. Once. Young
Soo Kim fled along with what was the young in
back young in back also fled So what happened
is when they fled we had charged them federally
you had so now they have Warrants out for their
arrest from the state of California because now
they've jumped bail. Yep, and we have a federal
warrant for their arrest So they know this they
know they've jumped bail. They're not coming
back to the US so what happened is I happen to
be in South Africa at the time and Agent Aaron
Dean, who was the supervisor here in Southern
California, she remembered, or I think when they
arrested, so the young - Bong Ju Kim. Bong Ju
Kim, when they arrested Bong Ju Kim here in LA,
they found in his personal belongings a receipt
from a nursery, a plant nursery in Cape Town.
That's the only document that they saw in his
records related to any other place in the world.
And she knew I was there, so she called me one
day, and I'm at the embassy, happened to be at
the office, and she explains this case to me.
It was the first time I'd heard about it. And
I was like, wow, that's weird. And she says,
do you know anything about this nursery? And
I said, no, I never heard about it, but I can
ask around. And I was like, what's the deal with
this case? So she explains it, and I said, Erin,
I said, these succulent plants, they really only
grow three places in the world. California coast,
Mexico, as you mentioned. and the Western Cape
of South Africa. And I was like, these guys know
they have warrants in the US. They're coming
here. They're going to come to South Africa.
And I was like, this is awesome. I said, send
me everything you got. If you don't mind, send
me everything you got. So she sent me everything
on this case, the state charges, the reports
from Agent Chi, I think some of your reports.
I got everything. And what I did was, within
about 24 hours, 48 hours maybe, I put together
a briefing packet and I went. And I briefed the
South African police and the Department of Environmental
Affairs in South Africa. And I basically gave
him an in -person briefing. This is what happened
in the US. This is the situation. And I said,
I think he's coming here. And I said, I would
be on alert. Right? And that's it. And honestly,
I left and I honestly didn't know. I kind of
was like, I walked out in the parking lot and
I'm like, I wonder if they'll do anything. I
was like, I don't know. Out of your hands at
that point. Yeah, I give them the information.
It's their business whether they do anything
with it. I knew them. I knew they were good officers.
And South African police are pretty good about
plant stuff. And I was like, well, maybe. Anyway,
10 days later, I get a phone call at the embassy.
This is crazy. 10 days later, I get a phone call
from the South African police and they're like,
yeah, we just hooked up your guy. I'm like, what?
And he goes, yeah, we arrested Byung Soo Kim
in Cape Town. And you're not going to believe
this. We went back to his hotel room after we
arrested him. He had a million dollars worth
of succulent plants recently poached from the
Cape. So he went immediately from the States.
This is October. 2019. So he basically went,
you know, he fled in the late fall of 2018. And
by October 2019, he is back at it. He's not he's
not even didn't miss a beat. Just changed his
luck. Give the presentation and bam, you're magical.
I know it's kind of like, wow, this is the way
it's actually supposed to work. That's awesome.
So he gets arrested in in Cape Town with a million
dollars worth of these plants in his possession.
and the same thing starts to unfold. He wants
bail. The nice ending to this story with you
today is that we got Kim back. We got Kim back
to California. He was actually extradited back
to the United States from South Africa. And he
faced the music here in the US both from you
and from both from the feds and and the state
of California So and the reason I want to give
that spoiler in this episode is I want to I'm
gonna give you an opportunity to have the pleasure
of telling us the penalties he got here in California
because this poor guy went through the ringer.
Not only the penalties. Remember I said this
was the case of my career. This is the case of
your career and I wanted to get to that. Magical
things would happen. Yes. Yes. Big changes because
of this case, right? So exactly. Yeah. So you
guys ended up arresting him and they went through
you guys and you guys got some great stuff and
then we extradited him back to the US. Yeah.
So we end up flying him from LA with our own
jet. Yeah. Okay. So now we got to spoil a little
more. Yeah. the feds get him back to the states
and because he's extradited uh now he's got federal
charges in state the fed goes first we charged
him uh we tried him here in the states he pled
guilty and he was sentenced to 24 months in prison
federally here in southern california and because
he was exporting out of here the federal judge
all of a sudden so we thought okay he's going
to get time served for the time he spent in jail
after he arrived in the states after being extradited
But the federal judge decided, no, I'm going
to give him credit for time served in South Africa,
which in my opinion, wrong legal decision because
different crime. He had to do his time in South
Africa for his South African crimes. Then he
does anyway. So unexpectedly, he has spent he
spent a good amount of time in federal custody
here. I think it was, you know, eight, eight
months or so. But all of a sudden he's released.
Right. No, he's not. We got to turn him over
to the state of California. Okay. So that's a
funny story in and of itself, because the poor
guy, the poor guy while he was in custody in
the US, he got in he got crosswise with a gang
member in his prison. And he got beat up bad.
And he had his jaw wired shut. I mean, it's not
Yeah, it's not funny because he it's horrible
what happened to him. But he did get beaten up
in prison in federal custody. And he had his
jaw wired shut. while he was recovering. I'll
tell you, his personality changed though. It
did change. From when it was kind of cocky, I'm
invincible, to a lot more humble when I saw him
the next time, I'll tell you that. He had spent
some time in some very hardcore prisons. South
Africa was not easy for him, and the federal
system, because he got beat up, was not good.
But so anyway, all of a sudden, you have to make
arrangements to take custody of him. How did
that happen? What happened there? And I'm panicking.
I think I called you and said, oh my God, he's
going to be released. You got to get on. It was
like, I was at a day. It was a short time and
I'm like, oh my God, what do we do? What do we
do? And so we're going over everything, right?
I can't do the whole transfer them to these four
different places. That's not going to fly it
that quickly. Right. So we do have. I don't know
what kind of jets they are, but they're pretty
fancy that are for our director and hire folks.
So we decide let's convince them to let us use
this nice jet. And I wasn't sure if it was going
to fly, but sure enough, they said, yeah, we're
going to do it. And so they send our private
jet, our private Department of Fish and Wildlife,
nice jet. So California Department of Fish and
Wildlife plane comes down. And we needed officers
to escort them. So they jump on board and we
fly as tushy. Back to Crescent City. And it was
like, of course, that was a sensation. Little
Crescent City, because this is a really small
town, we're getting this guy extradited. He's
international, you know, so it was a it was a
big deal. It was a big deal for us, you know.
So that happened, and he ended up going there.
Of course, the judge said no bail this time.
No bail this time. And judges, they might be
nice the first time, but if you lie to a judge,
they're pretty ticked off. If you flee, you're
not getting bail a second time. No. No, and he
wasn't very happy about it. So anyways, they
end up... playing out, they end up getting $10
,000 fines. Well, I should say, they. So we never
got Young in backpack. Right. He's still a fugitive.
But the main guy who was the mastermind, he ended
up getting a $10 ,000 fine. And then they gave
him restitution charges of, I think it was like
$142 ,000, if I remember. They yanked all his,
he had nursery licenses and all these licenses.
They yanked all that and said, you can't have
any more licenses. Good. And they sentenced him
to two years in jail time in state in state prison.
So he's, he's done his, yeah, his time in federal
jail. And they're saying you're actually going
back to jail, you know, the state prison, a teeny
bit of time served, but he still I remember this
number is 545 days, he was still going to serve
in jail, even with time serve. Nice. So I'm like,
cool, he's still got some more time, he might
be thinking he's done, but he's not, you know,
and it really was a victory and this it hit the
media like a storm right yeah this case made
the guardian and you know the headline was you
know something about you know the, you know,
plant poaching king or something you guys brought
down, which is pretty cool. Oh, it was a big
deal, you know, because he was, like I said,
over 100, you know, upper of 200 ,000 plants
near, you know, you're talking about a $600 ,000
shipment in 2019. And he'd been doing it since
2013. This guy was millions and millions. Oh,
yeah. And that's how he can afford to have international
tickets. Oh, yeah. Hotels, renting vehicles,
renting the nursery. That all costs money. A
lot of money. Hiring employees. Yeah. it's a
drop of the bucket right that's why when he saw
it you know so so that was good all the the jail
time really hits home to me because that that's
the deterrent that you're actually going to serve
this time and and he did and the media the media
was great because it got worldwide attention
and anybody who was thinking about poaching plants
who thought i'll just get a slap on the wrist
this is a true deterrent We're gonna go to another
country and get your tushy if you do this. We're
not messing around anymore. So that was that
has some serious bite. They even made a film
out of it called Plant Heist. It tells the whole
story both of this case and how it all started
in the other cases. It's pretty neat and most
of those cases are that the special operations
unit team along with Ward and Freeling and it
is really cool. Plant Heist. Okay make sure our
listeners and viewers go see Plant Heist. Look
at it. It's online. I think it's probably YouTube.
I don't know if you throw out for YouTube. So
you mentioned that this was the most important
case of your career. Why? Yes. Because I had
mentioned earlier, we didn't have any laws, right?
And I had, when these prior cases happened, I
had thrown it out there. We were talking about
it. Hey, we need laws. We need laws that are
fish and game code, that have some teeth to them.
I can't be always pulling vandalism out, conspiracy.
I need something else. And, um, shockingly, they
were like, okay, yeah, let's look at this. But
then when this case happened, they're like, yeah,
we have a problem. We need to do something about
it. This is big. I mean, you say they mean state
legislature, finally. Exactly. Yeah. And they,
okay, when you say government, I think a lot
of us think slow snail slow. Not always. Yeah.
Not in this case. It was rocket fast. They were
all on it. And I don't know, I wish I could throw
out who worked on it, their names, because it
was, it was pretty amazing and it got pushed
through. And now they created this new law before
he even left. They had it out there. It was fishing
game code 2024. And it said your first violation
is 5 ,000 to 50 ,000, no more than 10 ,000. That's
just your first violation. Judge has a lot of
discretion there depending on how serious it
is, right? You come back and you do it. So say
you're a citizen in the U .S. so you're not kicked
out of the country and you're able to do it again.
It's now 50 to 500 thousand dollars. So that
was a huge deal. That was a big deal for us and
new law getting created. But the other thing,
and I only learned about this recently, I went
on to read that someone wanted to know what our
mission statement was. And I was shocked because
it used to be, it had a bunch of stuff, but it
said to protect fish and wildlife and the habitats
that they live in. Well, I read our mission statement,
it now says fish, wildlife, and plant resources.
oh this is yeah that was fantastic so they're
taking this serious now right got new laws we
have a new mission statement that tells other
wardens you know because at first they're like
We do bears, we do deer. Plants, I don't think
so. But now everybody's like, yeah, okay, we
have laws, this is real, this is a lot of money,
we're on it. And a better appreciation for just
the amount of damage that one guy can facilitate,
right? Over 100 ,000, 120 -something thousand
plants. Can you imagine the bluff and the damage
and all the plants that they... And this is one
person, like you said, now multiply that by the
other people that are doing it. That's some major
damage that's happening. Yeah, it's so sad. We're
going to wrap up here pretty quick, but weren't
some of these plants returned to the wild, if
I remember correctly? That's cool. That doesn't
happen very often. Yeah. Well, what's interesting
is because of the soil thing. It was kind of
cool. If we knew where the plants came, so like
the Creston City plants, we knew they all came
from Demartin Beach, that area. Because of that,
they were able to return them to that area. So
Michael Van Hattem was able to take the plants
that they knew there and actually... Return them
to it some of the other plants from prior cases
if they put them in soil They couldn't return
to the wild but they were taken to places for
educational purposes But they got a lot of plants
that they put there and there was tons of volunteers
that went out there California plant society,
you know parks Just just a ton of people that
were willing to go out there and put these thousands
of plants back on these buffs where they blow
exactly My understanding is Michael Van Hattem
is still, he's our environmental scientist, was
going out there. He's like a supervisor and actually
seeing what the success rate is because just
because you put them back in doesn't necessarily
mean that they're still there. You know, if a
windstorm comes or rain, they could get washed
down. So he's looking into that, but at least
there was this great effort. to put them out.
You give them a chance. Yeah, exactly. I'm sure
some took. And these plants can live a long time,
outlive us. 100 years? Yeah. I was shocked. He
held one up, this really beautiful plant, and
he's all, this is about 100 years old plant.
But it's like devastating. People are stealing
these. Horrible. Well, you know what? Good for
you, man. That's awesome. Congratulations to
you and the whole team. Yeah, the whole SOU team.
That's that's the Fed's County. It was it was
just amazing. It's amazing case. It was an amazing
example of how the feds work with the state.
Yeah, the great work that the California Department
of Fish and Wildlife does on on a, you know,
less budget than most law enforcement agencies
in this state operate under and how new laws
laws got the plants back, got the bad guy. And
this is just an awesome case. Yeah, I mean, kudos
to you. So deadly as are now famous. They are
super famous. And I thank you so much for coming
on the show to tell this story. It's been great.
It's a it's a story that I just absolutely love.
I could talk about all day. I can't wait to hear
part two. Well, I think you'll enjoy hearing
from Anne Hereman, the prosecutor in South Africa.
She kind of funny how her first reaction to me
when I called her. But now this case is she is
all about this case. Let me tell you. So it's
pretty cool. All right, thank you, Savannah.
Everybody, thank you so much for joining us.
It's been a great episode. I appreciate Savannah
Morgan being here to talk to us about her case.
We'll see you next time. Nature's Secret Service
is written and produced by me, Ed Newcomer, and
is co -produced by the DHTV team here at California
State University, Dominguez Hills. Follow us
on social media and connect with us online at
naturessecretservice .com.