WEBVTT

00:00:00.140 --> 00:00:02.540
If you want to learn more about the topics of

00:00:02.540 --> 00:00:06.219
today's episode, visit the podcast website at

00:00:06.219 --> 00:00:09.339
naturessecretservice .com. Thanks for listening.

00:00:34.120 --> 00:00:37.200
Okay, people, listen up. Here we go. This is

00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:39.159
Nature's Secret Service, the podcast that puts

00:00:39.159 --> 00:00:41.320
you in the room with the men and women of wildlife

00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:44.140
law enforcement. I'm Ed Newcomer, your host,

00:00:44.380 --> 00:00:47.859
and today we have Savannah Morgan with us, a

00:00:47.859 --> 00:00:50.240
former game warden with California Department

00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:52.200
of Fish and Wildlife who spent many years working

00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:54.799
in their special operations unit. Super happy

00:00:54.799 --> 00:00:56.979
to have her here. She's gonna talk to us about

00:00:56.979 --> 00:00:59.420
a great case. Savannah, thanks for being here.

00:00:59.420 --> 00:01:02.820
I appreciate it. Thanks. It's so great to have

00:01:02.820 --> 00:01:06.819
you here. You know, you were a biologist by training,

00:01:07.099 --> 00:01:09.180
right? By education and training, you're a biologist

00:01:09.180 --> 00:01:12.900
first. Yeah, wildlife biologist. What drew you

00:01:12.900 --> 00:01:15.219
to becoming a law enforcement wildlife officer?

00:01:16.319 --> 00:01:19.680
So when I got my degree, I decided, okay, here

00:01:19.680 --> 00:01:22.579
I am. I want, you know, looked for a job. And

00:01:22.579 --> 00:01:24.540
I couldn't find a job. So I ended up getting

00:01:24.540 --> 00:01:27.700
a job as a customer service rep at a beer place

00:01:27.700 --> 00:01:30.439
straight out of college. Exactly. So I was naive

00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:31.920
thinking, you know, someone was going to hire

00:01:31.920 --> 00:01:34.780
me right off the back. And so I'm like, I don't

00:01:34.780 --> 00:01:36.299
want to do this my whole life. So I went back

00:01:36.299 --> 00:01:39.400
to college. And when I was in college, I did

00:01:39.400 --> 00:01:44.060
a research project on. Northern Sea otters and

00:01:44.060 --> 00:01:46.799
when I was giving that presentation a Fish and

00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:49.939
Wildlife Service Guy was there and he heard the

00:01:49.939 --> 00:01:52.319
presentation a US Fish and Wildlife Service No,

00:01:52.340 --> 00:01:54.959
it was a state. So we're now called State Fish

00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:57.420
and Wildlife Department of Fish and Wildlife

00:01:57.420 --> 00:01:59.420
It used to be fishing game. Yeah, I'll say fishing

00:01:59.420 --> 00:02:02.260
fishing game So he was there and he heard my

00:02:02.260 --> 00:02:04.840
presentation and he offered me a job. So I said

00:02:04.840 --> 00:02:07.700
well stay in college and pay a bunch of money

00:02:07.700 --> 00:02:11.169
or get a job and so I went with That's how I

00:02:11.169 --> 00:02:13.530
learned about fishing game initially. And that's

00:02:13.530 --> 00:02:15.969
where I first learned about game wardens. I met

00:02:15.969 --> 00:02:18.729
my first game warden and he was really cool and

00:02:18.729 --> 00:02:20.789
told me all about his job, how he's outside all

00:02:20.789 --> 00:02:22.650
the time. I thought, okay, this is my kind of

00:02:22.650 --> 00:02:24.849
job. Carry a gun, get to rest people. Yeah, I

00:02:24.849 --> 00:02:27.689
mean, heck. So that's kind of how I got on that

00:02:27.689 --> 00:02:30.770
track. You know, that's actually not uncommon.

00:02:32.150 --> 00:02:35.490
Many game wardens I've met who have become state

00:02:35.490 --> 00:02:38.629
game wardens. after being biologists for the

00:02:38.629 --> 00:02:41.129
same agency, have similar stories where they

00:02:41.129 --> 00:02:43.689
met a game warden in the field, and they start

00:02:43.689 --> 00:02:46.729
talking to him and the game warden's job sounds

00:02:46.729 --> 00:02:49.889
a lot more fun. Exactly. So they end up going

00:02:49.889 --> 00:02:51.750
that route. Yeah. And generally game wardens

00:02:51.750 --> 00:02:54.030
are pretty laid back people. Yeah, they are.

00:02:54.150 --> 00:02:55.909
They love the outdoors. And they love their jobs.

00:02:56.210 --> 00:02:57.889
And I'm like, that sounds good, not being in

00:02:57.889 --> 00:02:59.569
an office. Yeah. And you know what else? They

00:02:59.569 --> 00:03:03.099
hate lawbreakers. At their core, I always say

00:03:03.099 --> 00:03:06.599
this, the best game wardens, the best federal

00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:09.460
wildlife agents are cops first. They're like

00:03:09.460 --> 00:03:13.099
cops at heart, right? They don't like lawbreakers,

00:03:13.259 --> 00:03:15.599
and then they happen to also like the outdoors

00:03:15.599 --> 00:03:18.580
and wildlife. Exactly. game warden work, wildlife

00:03:18.580 --> 00:03:21.259
officers, special agent for fish and wildlife

00:03:21.259 --> 00:03:24.280
for the perfect like combination of it all. It

00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:26.840
brings it all together. You, when you became

00:03:26.840 --> 00:03:29.180
a warden, one of the jobs that you had, you were

00:03:29.180 --> 00:03:31.780
what in California they call an OSPR warden.

00:03:31.819 --> 00:03:34.219
Can you explain that a little bit? Yeah. So OSPR

00:03:34.219 --> 00:03:36.680
stands for oil spill prevention and response.

00:03:36.860 --> 00:03:39.539
So basically I was a pollution. investigator,

00:03:39.860 --> 00:03:42.780
but mainly petroleum, so large -scale petroleum.

00:03:43.139 --> 00:03:45.400
And we worked in the Bay Area, so we had a lot

00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:48.840
of refineries out there. And so not only would

00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:52.020
we investigate spills, but we'd also train with

00:03:52.020 --> 00:03:55.219
them and practice like drills in case a major

00:03:55.219 --> 00:03:58.240
spill would happen. What would we do? And those

00:03:58.240 --> 00:04:00.699
sort of things. And so that's how and when I

00:04:00.699 --> 00:04:02.759
wasn't doing that, I was also actually a regular

00:04:02.759 --> 00:04:05.620
warden as well. So I did regular patrol and fishing

00:04:05.620 --> 00:04:07.699
and hunting stuff as well. Right. But that was

00:04:07.699 --> 00:04:10.280
kind of my main thing was investigating pollution

00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:13.439
spills. Right. Yeah. You know, that is interesting.

00:04:13.539 --> 00:04:16.029
The OSPR wardens, they have that kind of I guess

00:04:16.029 --> 00:04:18.750
specialty you'd say maybe but their uniformed

00:04:18.750 --> 00:04:20.389
wardens drive a marked vehicle just like every

00:04:20.389 --> 00:04:23.110
other warden and they'll give you a citation

00:04:23.110 --> 00:04:25.389
for illegal fishing just as quickly as anybody

00:04:25.389 --> 00:04:28.529
other warden would raise. And it's not like there's

00:04:28.529 --> 00:04:32.029
a spill happening every day. There's no spill

00:04:32.029 --> 00:04:34.069
you're out there doing just your general patrol,

00:04:34.189 --> 00:04:37.230
which is fun too. And you know, on that note,

00:04:37.949 --> 00:04:39.610
one of the things that as you know that happens

00:04:39.610 --> 00:04:42.610
a lot with petroleum spills is it ends up impacting

00:04:42.610 --> 00:04:45.709
migratory birds, which of course, The federal

00:04:45.709 --> 00:04:48.110
government has primary jurisdiction over migratory

00:04:48.110 --> 00:04:51.050
birds in particular, right? I got to tell you,

00:04:51.050 --> 00:04:53.129
when I was an agent for Fish and Wildlife, any

00:04:53.129 --> 00:04:54.949
time we had a spill where it was like, oh my

00:04:54.949 --> 00:04:56.990
gosh, there's going to be migratory birds impacted,

00:04:57.509 --> 00:04:59.430
I was so relieved when I found out there was

00:04:59.430 --> 00:05:01.689
an Osper Warden assigned because you guys knew

00:05:01.689 --> 00:05:05.889
exactly how to handle it. Yeah, totally. It made

00:05:05.889 --> 00:05:08.550
my job very easy at that point because. We were

00:05:08.550 --> 00:05:10.389
the same way with Coast Guard. We worked a lot

00:05:10.389 --> 00:05:12.189
with Coast Guard. I'm sure, yeah. So on some

00:05:12.189 --> 00:05:14.430
of the boats that would go down and they would

00:05:14.430 --> 00:05:17.110
polluting whatever fuel that they had on board.

00:05:17.339 --> 00:05:19.240
You don't know a lot about boats. So I was always

00:05:19.240 --> 00:05:20.660
grateful to have Coast Guard there. I'm like,

00:05:20.699 --> 00:05:23.639
oh, yeah. It's that interagency expertise that's

00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:26.420
so valuable, right? Exactly. So then after you

00:05:26.420 --> 00:05:29.019
were an OSPR warden for a while, you joined the

00:05:29.019 --> 00:05:31.360
Special Operations Unit for California Department

00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:33.360
of Fish and Game, or now Fish and Wildlife, right?

00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:37.139
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, tell us what SOU.

00:05:37.399 --> 00:05:40.720
What is an SOU? Now you go from being a uniformed

00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:42.800
officer to plain clothes, right? Exactly. So

00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:45.740
I was. Four years I did the uniform thing and

00:05:45.740 --> 00:05:48.040
then a slot opened with the undercover unit which

00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:51.079
was SOU which stands for special operations unit

00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:54.220
And so I was thinking you know I've only been

00:05:54.220 --> 00:05:56.180
on for four years But I'm gonna give it a shot

00:05:56.180 --> 00:05:58.500
because you know these guys were the secret squirrels

00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:00.500
We called it and I wanted to be part of that

00:06:00.500 --> 00:06:03.560
so I applied and I got on and so I was really

00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:07.379
stoked So if you look on paper what we do is

00:06:07.379 --> 00:06:11.829
we investigate infiltrate and apprehend Poachers

00:06:11.829 --> 00:06:13.670
are people that are out there poaching wildlife

00:06:13.670 --> 00:06:16.910
for profit But what we're really doing is we're

00:06:16.910 --> 00:06:19.610
undercover ones like any undercover person whether

00:06:19.610 --> 00:06:22.089
it be drugs or anything else We're in plain clothes.

00:06:22.170 --> 00:06:25.410
We have I drove around in a minivan. I loved

00:06:25.410 --> 00:06:29.370
my little minivan Have undercover IDs bank accounts

00:06:29.370 --> 00:06:31.930
social media stuff and everything. So that's

00:06:31.930 --> 00:06:35.889
what we do. Yep. Yeah, we as you know as US Fish

00:06:35.889 --> 00:06:37.389
and Wildlife agents, you and I were actually

00:06:37.389 --> 00:06:39.290
talking about this at lunch, we come out of the

00:06:39.290 --> 00:06:42.949
Academy as plain clothes, you know, federal investigators,

00:06:43.509 --> 00:06:46.870
but in the states that do have so you types,

00:06:47.910 --> 00:06:51.310
units or detectives, plain clothes, state officers,

00:06:51.990 --> 00:06:54.529
you're the unit we kind of normally automatically

00:06:54.529 --> 00:06:56.970
liaison with because you're kind of doing exactly

00:06:56.970 --> 00:06:58.790
what we do as federal agents, you're just doing

00:06:58.790 --> 00:07:01.670
it on the state side. Yeah, so it's a nice nice

00:07:01.670 --> 00:07:05.209
easy way for us to mix. Exactly. And I have to

00:07:05.209 --> 00:07:07.730
tell you, I think honestly, the OSPR experience

00:07:07.730 --> 00:07:10.189
was probably really valuable for you prior to

00:07:10.189 --> 00:07:14.300
going into SOU because The investigations that

00:07:14.300 --> 00:07:17.540
an OSPR warden does are complex and they can

00:07:17.540 --> 00:07:20.500
be long lasting. They can take long time to solve,

00:07:20.540 --> 00:07:23.139
right? Yeah. And they require sometimes paperwork

00:07:23.139 --> 00:07:26.639
analysis, subpoenas, search warrants, whatever,

00:07:26.939 --> 00:07:29.500
in terms of looking at records and histories.

00:07:29.540 --> 00:07:32.889
Totally. And that is exactly what an SOU. Warden

00:07:32.889 --> 00:07:34.449
is doing right and working with a lot of other

00:07:34.449 --> 00:07:36.990
people too. Yeah, because the SOU we had to work

00:07:36.990 --> 00:07:39.730
with uniform warrants We work with the feds and

00:07:39.730 --> 00:07:41.149
all different sort of people same thing with

00:07:41.149 --> 00:07:43.029
Osborne Yeah, you're you're actually right. I

00:07:43.029 --> 00:07:45.149
never thought of it that way. But no, I think

00:07:45.149 --> 00:07:47.069
I think Osborne wardens or you know, they get

00:07:47.069 --> 00:07:49.589
a they get kind of a crash course in complex

00:07:49.589 --> 00:07:51.550
investigations pretty early in their careers

00:07:51.550 --> 00:07:54.230
if that's what they end up doing yeah, kind of

00:07:54.230 --> 00:07:57.490
neat, you know now I'm gonna take a quick break

00:07:57.490 --> 00:08:00.290
from you because One of the things I always try

00:08:00.290 --> 00:08:02.250
to do is get my guests, or not my guests, my

00:08:02.250 --> 00:08:04.709
audience to send me questions. And they never

00:08:04.709 --> 00:08:07.250
do. But I got a question. Oh my gosh. And we'll

00:08:07.250 --> 00:08:09.709
both be able to answer it, I think. I got a question

00:08:09.709 --> 00:08:14.589
from a listener named Paula in Santa Fe, New

00:08:14.589 --> 00:08:19.329
Mexico. And Paula wanted to know, how often does

00:08:19.329 --> 00:08:23.250
a forensics lab play a role in a fish and wildlife

00:08:23.250 --> 00:08:26.670
case or does it even play a role and Yeah, I'm

00:08:26.670 --> 00:08:28.230
gonna answer for the Fed side, but I want you

00:08:28.230 --> 00:08:31.889
to answer for the state side US Fish and Wildlife

00:08:31.889 --> 00:08:34.730
Service we have a national forensics lab for

00:08:34.730 --> 00:08:37.590
wildlife and that's all they do is wildlife crime

00:08:37.590 --> 00:08:40.669
forensic work and they're totally devoted to

00:08:40.669 --> 00:08:44.070
doing the support work for US Fish and Wildlife

00:08:44.070 --> 00:08:46.250
Special Agents and Wildlife Inspectors and they

00:08:46.250 --> 00:08:49.169
also will do Forensic work on behalf of the states

00:08:49.169 --> 00:08:52.049
at their request and I've I used our forensics

00:08:52.049 --> 00:08:55.990
lab many times for they can do DNA comparison

00:08:55.990 --> 00:09:00.389
to identify a Wildlife part and tell you what

00:09:00.389 --> 00:09:04.169
animal it came from they can do ballistics testings

00:09:04.169 --> 00:09:06.509
Fingerprints they have a morphology section so

00:09:06.509 --> 00:09:10.629
you can do Species ID based on you know comparison

00:09:10.629 --> 00:09:13.929
of similarity similarity comparisons Yeah, I

00:09:13.929 --> 00:09:15.809
mean I used it many times for different types

00:09:15.809 --> 00:09:20.009
of cases cause of death All of those things this

00:09:20.009 --> 00:09:22.750
California have a lab. I can't remember Sacramento

00:09:22.750 --> 00:09:27.470
actually a pretty good sized lab and They're

00:09:27.470 --> 00:09:29.950
actually I know we're gonna eventually talk about

00:09:29.950 --> 00:09:34.399
deadly as they're working on determining finding

00:09:34.399 --> 00:09:36.980
a way to determine, did these studlias come from

00:09:36.980 --> 00:09:40.019
the nursery or were they from the wild? And trying

00:09:40.019 --> 00:09:41.700
to, cause that's a problem. Everyone's going

00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:43.879
to say, Hey, I got these in a nursery, you know?

00:09:43.940 --> 00:09:45.820
So how do you prove otherwise? And so they're

00:09:45.820 --> 00:09:48.600
looking into that. But beyond that, they also

00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:50.720
can do the sexing thing. So if we get a piece

00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:53.000
of meat and we're like, this is obviously deer

00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:55.460
meat. Is it a dough? They can say yes or no.

00:09:55.799 --> 00:09:58.860
And one of the cases I worked on was shark fins.

00:09:59.800 --> 00:10:02.639
So what kind of shark fin is this is it a restricted

00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:05.639
species and they can do that too. So they do

00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:08.320
a lot of stuff Yeah, yeah and some labs, you

00:10:08.320 --> 00:10:10.639
know around the country specialize in certain

00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:12.539
things or they're better at certain things So

00:10:12.539 --> 00:10:15.919
again, it's I remember I used your lab when I

00:10:15.919 --> 00:10:18.019
was doing some sea otter work Even the sea otters

00:10:18.019 --> 00:10:21.360
were are federally protected your lab had more

00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:25.679
expertise on sea otters So it's always good to

00:10:25.679 --> 00:10:28.610
know which labs are focusing on what? Yeah, or

00:10:28.610 --> 00:10:30.870
what their workload is, because you might be

00:10:30.870 --> 00:10:33.450
able to sneak your case into one lab where the

00:10:33.450 --> 00:10:37.610
other one's full for now. Exactly, exactly. So

00:10:37.610 --> 00:10:40.309
interesting. I'm glad you brought the plant up,

00:10:40.490 --> 00:10:42.350
the Dudleyia, because what I want to talk to

00:10:42.350 --> 00:10:44.870
you about today is this amazing case you worked

00:10:44.870 --> 00:10:49.529
on involving plant trafficking. Don't think sometimes

00:10:49.529 --> 00:10:51.889
people don't realize that a fish and wildlife

00:10:51.889 --> 00:10:55.230
agencies also protect Plants and the environment

00:10:55.230 --> 00:10:57.629
where all of these animals that we normally think

00:10:57.629 --> 00:11:01.429
about them protecting live right and these plants

00:11:01.429 --> 00:11:04.269
that they rely on and I'll give you an interesting

00:11:04.269 --> 00:11:09.330
statistic the it's kind of hard to put firm numbers

00:11:09.330 --> 00:11:13.990
on things, but the now the estimate on the amount

00:11:13.990 --> 00:11:16.629
of money generated by wildlife trafficking every

00:11:16.629 --> 00:11:19.730
year is generally estimated between 10 and 20

00:11:19.730 --> 00:11:22.529
billion dollars a year. Now, you know, internationally

00:11:22.529 --> 00:11:25.669
on wildlife trafficking. But if you add plants

00:11:25.669 --> 00:11:29.490
into that plant trafficking, it's exceeds 100

00:11:29.490 --> 00:11:32.029
billion a year. Easy, easy. I totally believe

00:11:32.029 --> 00:11:33.429
it. Totally believe it. Because that includes,

00:11:33.429 --> 00:11:35.750
of course, timber trafficking. And there's a

00:11:35.750 --> 00:11:37.429
lot of, you know, hardwoods around the world

00:11:37.429 --> 00:11:41.389
that are trafficked. And these plants are trafficked.

00:11:41.710 --> 00:11:44.529
pretty frequently and there's big money in it

00:11:44.529 --> 00:11:47.649
and it does unbelievable damage to the environment

00:11:47.649 --> 00:11:49.509
when you start taking out commercial quantities

00:11:49.509 --> 00:11:52.570
of plants right yeah and you know what the one

00:11:52.570 --> 00:11:55.169
thing I also was trying to explain to the district

00:11:55.169 --> 00:11:56.690
attorney's office, like they're like, why is

00:11:56.690 --> 00:11:58.710
this important? Yeah, prosecutors often don't

00:11:58.710 --> 00:12:00.950
know why this is important. Yeah. And I say,

00:12:01.129 --> 00:12:02.649
well, because what you're saying these large

00:12:02.649 --> 00:12:05.070
numbers, but they also don't have any means of

00:12:05.070 --> 00:12:07.429
protecting themselves. You know, a deer can go

00:12:07.429 --> 00:12:10.269
and run away. It can do some sort of avoidance

00:12:10.269 --> 00:12:12.409
when it comes to poachers. What does a plant

00:12:12.409 --> 00:12:15.730
do? It's just it's stuck there. You know, so

00:12:15.730 --> 00:12:17.769
there's no. So that's kind of scary. And so if

00:12:17.769 --> 00:12:20.129
these guys can easily just go on a bluff and

00:12:20.129 --> 00:12:24.220
rip out thousands. And it's that easy. There's

00:12:24.220 --> 00:12:26.100
no protections for it. So it's kind of scary.

00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:30.240
That's a great point. Yeah. And along those lines,

00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:32.200
the plant we're going to talk about today is

00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:36.960
a Dudley. Tell us what a Dudley a plant is. where

00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:39.179
it lives and its growth pattern and all of that.

00:12:39.500 --> 00:12:42.500
So, um, my first case that I got involving dead

00:12:42.500 --> 00:12:45.059
liars, I remember bringing in a warrant. It was

00:12:45.059 --> 00:12:47.480
a, um, I was going to put a tracker on a vehicle

00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:49.580
on the suspect's vehicle and I got in front of

00:12:49.580 --> 00:12:51.419
the judge and it was the same thing, right? So

00:12:51.419 --> 00:12:53.240
I always try to write a little paragraph that

00:12:53.240 --> 00:12:56.200
explains what the deadly is. What is it? Why

00:12:56.200 --> 00:12:58.639
is it important? Yeah. So I remember him looking

00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:01.120
at me and he goes, dude, Leah, and he called

00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:03.240
it dupe and you never correct a judge, right?

00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:06.210
So I'm like, yeah, he's so What is this? And

00:13:06.210 --> 00:13:07.950
of course, the part he didn't say is, and why

00:13:07.950 --> 00:13:09.769
the heck should I care, right? Because a lot

00:13:09.769 --> 00:13:12.350
of our judges, they're also dealing with homicides

00:13:12.350 --> 00:13:14.690
and violent crimes. So why do I care about stupid

00:13:14.690 --> 00:13:16.289
plants? Same for the feds, right? Yeah. They

00:13:16.289 --> 00:13:18.669
got a terrorism case right before your right

00:13:18.669 --> 00:13:20.129
before your wildlife case comes through. And

00:13:20.129 --> 00:13:22.470
now you have this cute little plant. Why do I

00:13:22.470 --> 00:13:25.490
care? Exactly. And so first off, I told them,

00:13:25.629 --> 00:13:29.350
well, OK, it is a plant. It's a succulent. And

00:13:29.350 --> 00:13:31.570
it looks kind of like a lotus flower, if you

00:13:31.570 --> 00:13:34.090
know what a lotus flower is. And the thing about

00:13:34.090 --> 00:13:36.230
lotus flowers is they only bloom for like three

00:13:36.230 --> 00:13:39.750
to four days. But a deadlia, it's actually it's

00:13:39.750 --> 00:13:41.889
leaves that are succulent and form this beautiful

00:13:41.889 --> 00:13:43.389
flower looking thing. And they look like that

00:13:43.389 --> 00:13:45.090
all the time. So it's like always having this

00:13:45.090 --> 00:13:48.429
lotus flower with you. And the other thing is

00:13:48.429 --> 00:13:53.100
in some countries. the lotus flower has a cultural

00:13:53.100 --> 00:13:56.379
significance, especially in Asian countries.

00:13:56.940 --> 00:13:59.659
So a lot of times you'll see like a Buddha statue

00:13:59.659 --> 00:14:03.019
or other deities that have the lotus flower underneath

00:14:03.019 --> 00:14:05.519
them, and it represents compassion, various things

00:14:05.519 --> 00:14:09.419
like that. So that's one of the things that makes

00:14:09.419 --> 00:14:12.759
them so interesting to people. But what's also

00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:16.279
interesting about deadly is, as you know, wildlife

00:14:16.279 --> 00:14:18.620
that's being poached at a commercial level, you

00:14:18.620 --> 00:14:22.220
have that which is poached for delicacy, because

00:14:22.220 --> 00:14:25.000
it tastes really good, like caviar. And then

00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:26.940
you have things that are being poached because

00:14:26.940 --> 00:14:29.960
of medicinal purposes, like gall bladders, abalone,

00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:32.759
that sort of thing. Dudleyas don't fit in either

00:14:32.759 --> 00:14:36.299
one of those. They're simply being poached because

00:14:36.299 --> 00:14:39.840
they're pretty. To me, it was like, wow, okay.

00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:45.049
So I explained to them what Dudleyas were. Their

00:14:45.049 --> 00:14:47.409
name is live forever. So they live for a really

00:14:47.409 --> 00:14:49.610
long time. That's what Dudley means? Yeah. Live

00:14:49.610 --> 00:14:51.330
forever? Live forever. Oh, that's cool. So they

00:14:51.330 --> 00:14:54.129
can live up to, one of the biologists was telling

00:14:54.129 --> 00:14:57.309
me, showed me one of the Dudley plants that had

00:14:57.309 --> 00:14:59.289
been poached. He saw this competing were from

00:14:59.289 --> 00:15:02.610
50 to a hundred years old. He's like, and it

00:15:02.610 --> 00:15:05.769
takes them a really long time to get that size,

00:15:05.830 --> 00:15:07.970
which is another problem, right? So it's not

00:15:07.970 --> 00:15:10.009
like these things are growing really quickly,

00:15:10.169 --> 00:15:12.210
you know, no problem. They'll rejuvenate. They're

00:15:12.210 --> 00:15:15.720
not, they're really slow growers. So, but anyway,

00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:17.820
so there's these beautiful plants or succulents

00:15:17.820 --> 00:15:22.019
and they grow on our coastal bluffs. And so why

00:15:22.019 --> 00:15:25.100
is that important? Well, a lot of the coastal

00:15:25.100 --> 00:15:28.480
bluff areas are all actually homes to a lot of

00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.840
other plants that are really, you know, a sensitive

00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:34.559
species. So if you're out there traipsing around

00:15:34.559 --> 00:15:36.460
the bluff, trying to get these deadly as you're

00:15:36.460 --> 00:15:38.600
also stepping on these other plants, these sensitive

00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:42.600
environments. They're also, so delias can be

00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.120
found on flatter areas, but mainly the ones that

00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:48.340
these people we found were poaching, or the poachers

00:15:48.340 --> 00:15:51.220
were poaching the plants that were on these bluff

00:15:51.220 --> 00:15:55.659
side. And so when they go on these bluffs, they're

00:15:55.659 --> 00:15:58.360
actually kicking a lot of the soil off. And when

00:15:58.360 --> 00:16:01.009
they do that, you... pretty much create an area

00:16:01.009 --> 00:16:03.370
that's uninhabitable because now it's just all

00:16:03.370 --> 00:16:06.149
rock, all the soil is gone. And so it's really

00:16:06.149 --> 00:16:08.169
difficult to even put the plant back to those

00:16:08.169 --> 00:16:11.309
areas. And so they've moved to these areas, these

00:16:11.309 --> 00:16:14.090
bluff areas as a protection to themselves. So

00:16:14.090 --> 00:16:18.090
they're in a sensitive environment and we discovered

00:16:18.090 --> 00:16:20.409
through these cases that we're gonna talk about

00:16:20.409 --> 00:16:22.690
that people, because they're so easily poached,

00:16:22.710 --> 00:16:25.110
they're taking them by the thousands and thousands.

00:16:25.250 --> 00:16:27.870
So they'll completely denude a whole hillside,

00:16:27.870 --> 00:16:31.610
right? Exactly. And pretty quickly too. But the

00:16:31.610 --> 00:16:33.750
other thing is they also have another significance.

00:16:33.830 --> 00:16:35.429
They're also a food source. Whenever you're talking

00:16:35.429 --> 00:16:38.990
about plants, right, you have the flower, which

00:16:38.990 --> 00:16:41.690
is for pollinators like hummingbirds can utilize

00:16:41.690 --> 00:16:44.710
the flowers and other pollinators. And they also

00:16:44.710 --> 00:16:47.110
produce seeds like anything else and those are

00:16:47.110 --> 00:16:49.490
eaten by birds and stuff and the plant can be

00:16:49.490 --> 00:16:52.610
eaten. So it's also a food source. And as we've

00:16:52.610 --> 00:16:55.389
learned, when we're talking plants, they're all

00:16:55.389 --> 00:16:58.409
part of this web. So if you take out, one plant

00:16:58.409 --> 00:17:01.009
you're now impacting some of these other animals

00:17:01.009 --> 00:17:03.690
and other animals eat those animals and so forth

00:17:03.690 --> 00:17:05.430
and you're really messing with the whole web.

00:17:06.769 --> 00:17:10.069
So they do have a significance. They are important

00:17:10.069 --> 00:17:12.069
and we don't want people coming to our state

00:17:12.069 --> 00:17:14.230
and taking them by the thousands. Definitely

00:17:14.230 --> 00:17:16.910
not because it does have that weird ripple effect

00:17:16.910 --> 00:17:19.630
and so eventually the plant itself could become

00:17:19.630 --> 00:17:21.529
threatened or endangered but then you've got,

00:17:22.150 --> 00:17:24.930
you know, it protects the soil from erosion.

00:17:25.880 --> 00:17:28.099
It's a food source. It might be a sheltering

00:17:28.099 --> 00:17:31.519
source for animals, right? It's just the bugs.

00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:34.619
Yeah, the importance of plants to the rest of

00:17:34.619 --> 00:17:38.279
the Wildlife world is so critical. Yeah, so we

00:17:38.279 --> 00:17:40.619
love the big fuzzy. Yeah, we love the bears and

00:17:40.619 --> 00:17:42.339
all these things But we forget about the plants

00:17:42.339 --> 00:17:45.019
that they rely on now bring me the little tiger

00:17:45.019 --> 00:17:47.880
case not the plant case, right? Yeah, the prosecutors

00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:50.240
love yeah was the same thing Yeah, so the you

00:17:50.240 --> 00:17:51.900
know that the other thing these succulents I've

00:17:51.900 --> 00:17:54.619
read they grow sometimes like a millimeter or

00:17:54.619 --> 00:17:56.740
two a year. Oh, yeah, maybe three four millimeters

00:17:56.740 --> 00:17:58.940
a year I'm actually growing some now for the

00:17:58.940 --> 00:18:01.400
California native plants society. Okay, and I've

00:18:01.400 --> 00:18:03.839
discovered they'll sprout pretty quickly in perfect

00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:05.990
condition This is not in a while. That's even

00:18:05.990 --> 00:18:08.329
harder, right? But then I'm sitting there going

00:18:08.329 --> 00:18:10.769
come on, you know, it's a really really slow

00:18:10.769 --> 00:18:13.849
grower And that's why you know people say well,

00:18:13.849 --> 00:18:15.730
why don't they just propagate these in a greenhouse?

00:18:16.009 --> 00:18:18.250
It takes years and years and years to grow one

00:18:18.250 --> 00:18:20.630
that would be valuable, right? Exactly. And if

00:18:20.630 --> 00:18:22.390
you're a nursery, you can't do that. You can't

00:18:22.390 --> 00:18:25.069
wait for 15 years to sell your plant or 50 years

00:18:25.069 --> 00:18:26.710
to sell some of the ones that they're stealing.

00:18:26.910 --> 00:18:29.390
There's no, but we are trying to do that. There

00:18:29.390 --> 00:18:31.670
are people like UC Santa Cruz that are trying

00:18:31.670 --> 00:18:33.849
to get these plants out, their seeds out there

00:18:33.849 --> 00:18:36.769
so that people will use that instead of poaching

00:18:36.769 --> 00:18:39.390
the plants. But again, they're not going to 50

00:18:39.390 --> 00:18:41.769
years. Yeah, that's a 50 year plan. I'm not going

00:18:41.769 --> 00:18:43.490
to wait 50 years for it to get there. You want

00:18:43.490 --> 00:18:46.420
the big money. That's true for Like saltwater

00:18:46.420 --> 00:18:48.579
coral to even though it's a living, you know

00:18:48.579 --> 00:18:52.420
creature. Yeah They do propagate coral for the

00:18:52.420 --> 00:18:55.400
aquarium trade in but you know The propagated

00:18:55.400 --> 00:18:57.599
ones are maybe you know quarter of an inch to

00:18:57.599 --> 00:18:59.859
an inch and a half You go get one from the wild

00:18:59.859 --> 00:19:02.400
you get five six inch piece That's who knows

00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:04.859
how old that you can sell for a thousand dollars

00:19:04.859 --> 00:19:08.400
exactly rather than having it in your Aquarium

00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:11.480
for you for ten years while it grows and and

00:19:11.480 --> 00:19:15.150
you know, the other thing is Dudley is like live

00:19:15.150 --> 00:19:17.809
coral, very difficult. I mean, it's it's not

00:19:17.809 --> 00:19:20.710
easy to keep them alive and in a captive environment,

00:19:20.730 --> 00:19:23.230
I guess, right? A lot of people, like a lot of

00:19:23.230 --> 00:19:26.089
people with cactuses, they kill them. Yeah, because

00:19:26.089 --> 00:19:28.710
they overwater them or underwater them. And then

00:19:28.710 --> 00:19:30.289
you got to go buy another. So there's like this

00:19:30.289 --> 00:19:33.509
guaranteed market for these things. Yeah, and

00:19:33.509 --> 00:19:36.960
some Delia have horizontal roots. So it's not

00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:38.799
like you just dig your hole, stick them in there.

00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:42.140
The root system's not like that. And once you

00:19:42.140 --> 00:19:45.160
mess it up trying to replant them even, our biologists

00:19:45.160 --> 00:19:47.819
are finding it's not that easy. And so you go

00:19:47.819 --> 00:19:49.299
and you put them and they all look good when

00:19:49.299 --> 00:19:51.839
you leave, but then a windstorm comes or something

00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:53.640
knocks them over and they're really susceptible

00:19:53.640 --> 00:19:56.819
to being re -rooted. Interesting. Shallow roots.

00:19:57.019 --> 00:20:02.640
Exactly. So how does a SOU warden... How does

00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:05.640
a Dudley approaching case come to the attention

00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:07.380
of California Department of Fish and Wildlife?

00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:10.059
And then how does that make its way to an SOU

00:20:10.059 --> 00:20:14.160
warden? So it first started out, I have to give

00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:16.859
credit to the uniform guys. It's usually the

00:20:16.859 --> 00:20:19.039
uniform guys that come across the stuff, right?

00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:21.059
And even before that, I have to give credit to

00:20:21.059 --> 00:20:22.539
the uniform guys. credit to the public, because

00:20:22.539 --> 00:20:25.160
it all started with this lady. She's in a small

00:20:25.160 --> 00:20:27.839
town in Mendocino County in a post office. That's

00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:30.539
up North, right? Yeah, exactly. The North Coast.

00:20:31.420 --> 00:20:33.319
And she walks into the post office, you know,

00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:35.279
and she's expecting to say hi to the front counter

00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:36.700
lady, you know, they all know each other and

00:20:36.700 --> 00:20:40.099
so forth. And she got behind this person who

00:20:40.099 --> 00:20:44.519
had just dozens of boxes. And all of them were

00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:46.799
being shipped to China. And so they were having

00:20:46.799 --> 00:20:49.019
to fill out these customs forms for her. So she's

00:20:49.019 --> 00:20:50.380
a little annoyed. She thought she was just gonna

00:20:50.380 --> 00:20:53.200
pop in and pop out, right? So she has nothing

00:20:53.200 --> 00:20:55.579
better to do, so she starts listening in to what

00:20:55.579 --> 00:20:59.160
this guy is saying. And so she also notices the

00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:00.980
dirt's coming out of the bottom of these boxes.

00:21:01.059 --> 00:21:04.460
And so that's weird. And so she hears the post

00:21:04.460 --> 00:21:07.940
office lady ask, well, hey, what's in these things?

00:21:08.359 --> 00:21:10.819
And he said, something very valuable. So now

00:21:10.819 --> 00:21:14.119
she's really listening. And then she said, well,

00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.339
where'd you get him from? And he pointed towards

00:21:16.339 --> 00:21:19.839
the coast. So this lady automatically thinks

00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:22.619
abalone because abalone are being poached like

00:21:22.619 --> 00:21:24.900
crazy on the coast. Anybody who lives in Northern

00:21:24.900 --> 00:21:27.819
California knows that abalone poaching is a big

00:21:27.819 --> 00:21:30.400
deal. Exactly. OK, exactly. So she's like, oh,

00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:32.779
my gosh. Right. So certain citizen. Awesome.

00:21:33.079 --> 00:21:36.779
Yeah. So she gets she calls them. Warden Freeling

00:21:36.779 --> 00:21:39.619
and and says hey, I think we have an abalone

00:21:39.619 --> 00:21:42.019
poacher and this is what's going on Okay, and

00:21:42.019 --> 00:21:44.660
so he he goes to the post office and since they

00:21:44.660 --> 00:21:47.160
were being sent to China I'm sure you guys get

00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:49.000
to do this too. Once they go through customs

00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:50.960
They can be x -rayed and you can see what's in

00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:53.660
the box. Yep, and so he's like, okay Show me

00:21:53.660 --> 00:21:56.180
the abalone and they end up being these succulents

00:21:56.180 --> 00:21:57.859
and he's like what the heck is this? You know,

00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:00.059
it was the first time none of us really knew

00:22:00.059 --> 00:22:03.079
about it. When was it? What year was it? 2017,

00:22:03.299 --> 00:22:06.720
December of 2017. And so he's like, okay, I've

00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:09.079
got some succulents here, are they native, not

00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:10.960
native? So he gets California Native Plant Society

00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:12.779
involved and he says, what is this? And they

00:22:12.779 --> 00:22:14.579
said, oh yeah, these are our native dudlias.

00:22:15.420 --> 00:22:18.579
And he finds out that, yeah, plant poting's a

00:22:18.579 --> 00:22:21.559
thing. And we weren't aware of it. We had no

00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:24.480
laws that protected plants, you know? And so

00:22:24.480 --> 00:22:27.380
he's like, okay, well, good to know. But the

00:22:27.380 --> 00:22:29.859
guy had already left. So there was nothing he

00:22:29.859 --> 00:22:34.109
could do at that point. Case gets not forgotten,

00:22:34.109 --> 00:22:36.829
but you know nothing happens and then the plants

00:22:36.829 --> 00:22:39.630
left the country No, so I'm sorry so so no he

00:22:39.630 --> 00:22:41.349
decides to intercept the plants and he gives

00:22:41.349 --> 00:22:43.309
them to the California native plant society I

00:22:43.309 --> 00:22:45.170
believe they put some of them back in the ground

00:22:45.170 --> 00:22:47.869
they tried to and the other ones they they kept

00:22:47.869 --> 00:22:49.910
I think they were doing for educational purposes

00:22:49.910 --> 00:22:51.650
or something like that But I know some of them

00:22:51.650 --> 00:22:53.529
went back into the ground the ones that could

00:22:53.529 --> 00:22:55.970
do you remember like why if they if there were

00:22:55.970 --> 00:22:59.559
no laws protecting plants in California What

00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:01.880
authority did he use to seize the plants, do

00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:05.440
you remember? So he didn't, well, okay, so he

00:23:05.440 --> 00:23:07.920
did, it was vandalism. Oh, vandalism. Yeah, so

00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:10.319
vandalism is what he used. Okay, interesting.

00:23:10.339 --> 00:23:12.220
But he didn't know. That's creative. So it might

00:23:12.220 --> 00:23:14.000
have been kind of a gray area, to be honest,

00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:16.920
now that I think about it, you know? Because

00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:18.420
it's like, yeah, he had these dead leaves. We

00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:21.299
knew that they were native. And based on it,

00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:23.019
turns out you can actually look at some of these

00:23:23.019 --> 00:23:24.920
plants and tell that they came from the wild.

00:23:25.339 --> 00:23:28.190
Because unlike a nursery plant that looks Perfect,

00:23:28.369 --> 00:23:31.769
right? No bugs, perfect fertilizer, perfect control

00:23:31.769 --> 00:23:34.910
of light. In the wild, that's not the case. Right.

00:23:34.990 --> 00:23:37.950
You know, so you end up getting bug bites and

00:23:37.950 --> 00:23:40.309
different coloration. They grow towards the sun.

00:23:40.390 --> 00:23:42.210
So you have these things that key you in that

00:23:42.210 --> 00:23:45.130
they're wild. So they had an idea that, yeah,

00:23:45.130 --> 00:23:46.730
they got these from the wild and they shouldn't

00:23:46.730 --> 00:23:49.460
be doing it. Guessing that's what I'm not sure.

00:23:49.539 --> 00:23:53.819
It wasn't my case, but good point. He could articulate

00:23:53.819 --> 00:23:56.099
something, right? Yeah, exactly. And that's all

00:23:56.099 --> 00:23:58.119
you need to do. So and he did say we got him

00:23:58.119 --> 00:23:59.700
from, you know, and he pointed to the coast.

00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.599
But OK, so the case gets forgotten. And then

00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:05.079
I think it was like a couple of months later,

00:24:05.259 --> 00:24:07.029
they get another tip. There's some guys that

00:24:07.029 --> 00:24:09.369
are out or a guy that's out on the bluff and

00:24:09.369 --> 00:24:11.890
he has a backpack and it's, you know, a known

00:24:11.890 --> 00:24:14.769
abalone poaching area. So again, we're in Freelance

00:24:14.769 --> 00:24:17.849
thinking abalone poaching. Yeah, abalone poaching.

00:24:17.950 --> 00:24:20.150
I'm sorry. But another tip from the public, basically.

00:24:20.269 --> 00:24:22.269
Exactly. There's a suspicious guy out here with

00:24:22.269 --> 00:24:24.730
a backpack poking around. Exactly. Which would

00:24:24.730 --> 00:24:26.950
be consistent with an abalone poacher. For sure,

00:24:27.009 --> 00:24:30.849
for sure. So he gets in his truck and he drives

00:24:30.849 --> 00:24:32.910
down there as quick as he can. He sneaks up on

00:24:32.910 --> 00:24:35.789
him. And the guy has a backpack and he ends up

00:24:35.789 --> 00:24:38.869
searching the backpack and finds these darn plants,

00:24:39.150 --> 00:24:41.210
deadliest. So now he's nowhere, he knows where

00:24:41.210 --> 00:24:43.809
they're getting them, you know? And it turns

00:24:43.809 --> 00:24:45.990
out he was able to look at video from the post

00:24:45.990 --> 00:24:48.210
office. He was able to match it to this guy.

00:24:48.289 --> 00:24:50.210
Same guy. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's awesome. So

00:24:50.210 --> 00:24:52.549
then he's like, okay. Even better. And so he

00:24:52.549 --> 00:24:54.349
ends up taking the guy back to his vehicle and

00:24:54.349 --> 00:24:56.549
his vehicle's filled with a bunch of deadliest.

00:24:56.849 --> 00:24:59.319
Bad guy's vehicle. But he's still going. okay

00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:01.880
there's no mission game law i don't know what

00:25:01.880 --> 00:25:04.059
to necessarily do but we definitely have you

00:25:04.059 --> 00:25:07.519
know vandalism and there is a penal code law

00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:10.039
that protects plants that mentions plants but

00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:12.440
it doesn't really have any bite to it yeah okay

00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:14.420
so it's kind of like what do i see it's just

00:25:14.420 --> 00:25:16.240
like a very blanket i think i've looked at that

00:25:16.240 --> 00:25:19.460
one it's like pc 182 maybe or something like

00:25:19.460 --> 00:25:22.120
that where it's like just a general unlawful

00:25:22.120 --> 00:25:24.700
remove plants from public land. Yeah, something

00:25:24.700 --> 00:25:26.799
like that. And the fines not a big deal. Yeah,

00:25:26.859 --> 00:25:29.140
I was it's not very scary. You know, it's not

00:25:29.140 --> 00:25:31.019
something that's going to deter someone, you

00:25:31.019 --> 00:25:33.259
know, so we try to throw in Are there any felonies?

00:25:33.380 --> 00:25:36.299
No vandalism or what? And so he said, Okay, I'm

00:25:36.299 --> 00:25:38.460
going to try and do this. We'll throw in vandalism.

00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:41.079
And I I'm pretty certain this was the guy, he

00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:43.519
actually had him go out there and put some of

00:25:43.519 --> 00:25:45.160
the plants away because he's like, what do I

00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:48.160
do? You know, whether it was successful or not,

00:25:48.299 --> 00:25:49.960
those plants, who knows? But it was like, OK,

00:25:50.019 --> 00:25:51.500
this is a new thing. I don't know what's going

00:25:51.500 --> 00:25:54.119
on. But so Warren Frueling decides, you know,

00:25:54.119 --> 00:25:56.279
I got to share this with people. This is the

00:25:56.279 --> 00:25:58.079
second time. So I'm going to send out this email

00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:00.559
to people, some key people, and just give them

00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:02.799
a heads up. This is going on. And one of the

00:26:02.799 --> 00:26:05.940
people was me. So I got the email and Dudley,

00:26:05.960 --> 00:26:09.180
I see Dudley. And it turns out that when I was

00:26:09.180 --> 00:26:13.400
in college, I worked for, I worked at the Arboretum

00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:15.799
under Stephen McCabe and he is the Dudley expert.

00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:19.240
In fact, I think he's probably the expert if

00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:22.619
not. In the world, you know, he knows a lot about

00:26:22.619 --> 00:26:25.019
deadliest. And so I remember him telling me about

00:26:25.019 --> 00:26:27.779
there's certain species of deadliest or certain

00:26:27.779 --> 00:26:32.279
species of them that are endangered and are only

00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:34.460
in certain areas and all this stuff. And I remember

00:26:34.460 --> 00:26:36.619
that and I got to work with them. So when I saw

00:26:36.619 --> 00:26:39.619
deadly, I was like, oh, hey, this could be happening.

00:26:40.099 --> 00:26:42.220
And yeah, this is not good. And I remember him

00:26:42.220 --> 00:26:44.680
mentioning that they were being poached in certain

00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:49.140
areas. So that's how. I actually learned about

00:26:49.140 --> 00:26:52.200
it for the first time. So I let Warden Freeling

00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:54.420
know, hey, if you get anything else in the other

00:26:54.420 --> 00:26:56.519
cases, we're happy to help. We're on it. We're

00:26:56.519 --> 00:26:59.339
interested in that. So this just piqued Soyou's

00:26:59.339 --> 00:27:02.160
interest. Exactly, exactly. Probably also because

00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.359
you smelled commercialization. Oh, for sure.

00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:06.259
Yeah, there's no way they're taking that many

00:27:06.259 --> 00:27:09.460
and just decorating their home. Yeah, exactly.

00:27:09.940 --> 00:27:14.180
So then another tip comes in. And actually, I

00:27:14.180 --> 00:27:16.960
shouldn't say another tip. It turned out... That

00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:19.000
between the two cases they were able to get the

00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:21.759
media involved. Okay, and so then people learn

00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:23.480
for the first time Okay, people are going and

00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:26.079
taking plants, you know, not abalone out on our

00:27:26.079 --> 00:27:28.579
bluffs. This is interesting Okay, which is really

00:27:28.579 --> 00:27:30.759
good because it's now educated the people and

00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:33.220
and they're looking for it And so a tip comes

00:27:33.220 --> 00:27:35.359
in and I see the tip we have this system called

00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:37.740
cow tip So anyone can look and see and I see

00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:40.549
and I'm like, okay We're going to look into this.

00:27:40.869 --> 00:27:42.910
And so we end up looking into it. We end up making

00:27:42.910 --> 00:27:45.250
our first deadly a case. And then we ended up

00:27:45.250 --> 00:27:47.990
making a few more. Just little ones kind of off.

00:27:48.329 --> 00:27:49.970
Yeah, they're a lot smaller than the one that

00:27:49.970 --> 00:27:53.109
we're going to eventually talk about. But But

00:27:53.109 --> 00:27:55.769
it involved like 800 plants, and these were people

00:27:55.769 --> 00:27:58.809
coming from another country, from South Korea,

00:27:59.269 --> 00:28:01.210
and so we busted them, and we got pretty good

00:28:01.210 --> 00:28:04.430
results. We got $10 ,000 fines for them, and

00:28:04.430 --> 00:28:07.210
they got kicked out of the country, and all the

00:28:07.210 --> 00:28:10.049
plants seized. So again, it turned into a media

00:28:10.049 --> 00:28:13.569
sensation, which was really good. Made a couple

00:28:13.569 --> 00:28:16.240
other cases, but we started to realize... There's

00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:19.740
a problem. And that was the laws were deficient.

00:28:19.940 --> 00:28:22.079
There wasn't enough laws were being creative,

00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:23.900
but sooner or later, someone's going to challenge

00:28:23.900 --> 00:28:27.000
us. Vandalism. I was using conspiracy. I mean,

00:28:27.019 --> 00:28:29.299
I was trying to really get creative on this because

00:28:29.299 --> 00:28:31.759
I wanted it to have some bite, you know, but

00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:33.740
there was no fish and game code. So why are you

00:28:33.740 --> 00:28:36.720
guys even out there? You know, so that was one

00:28:36.720 --> 00:28:39.079
of the challenges. The other challenge is we

00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:41.220
realize that people were coming from other countries

00:28:41.220 --> 00:28:43.940
and they were doing this. So it's like, well,

00:28:44.549 --> 00:28:46.650
A random person comes to our country. They rent

00:28:46.650 --> 00:28:48.809
a rental vehicle. They're only here for a short

00:28:48.809 --> 00:28:50.569
time. In the middle of the night, they do this

00:28:50.569 --> 00:28:52.529
thing. And it's like a needle in a haystack.

00:28:52.549 --> 00:28:54.950
How do you catch these guys? But it also is very

00:28:54.950 --> 00:28:57.269
organized, right? It smells. Oh, very, very,

00:28:57.329 --> 00:28:59.289
very organized. Your detective sense is like,

00:29:00.210 --> 00:29:03.630
this is something serious, right? Yeah. So eventually,

00:29:04.430 --> 00:29:06.809
this would lead, you know, the media of sensation

00:29:06.809 --> 00:29:09.559
would get out and we would get. the case. I'd

00:29:09.559 --> 00:29:12.160
say it's the case of my career. It really is.

00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:16.710
We would get a very interesting tip. Not like

00:29:16.710 --> 00:29:17.730
any other we've ever gotten. Kind of blew it

00:29:17.730 --> 00:29:19.690
out of the water. Yeah. What was the tip? So

00:29:19.690 --> 00:29:23.650
the tip was from someone from South Korea, which

00:29:23.650 --> 00:29:25.349
I've never gotten. I'm a state gamer. I'm sure

00:29:25.349 --> 00:29:27.029
you guys get them all the time. So it's not a

00:29:27.029 --> 00:29:27.849
big deal to you. Occasionally, yeah, we get the

00:29:27.849 --> 00:29:29.630
foreign nationals that do call the tip line.

00:29:29.789 --> 00:29:34.150
Yeah. So for me, no way. So it was like, what

00:29:34.150 --> 00:29:37.309
the heck? But they had learned about this. Apparently,

00:29:37.349 --> 00:29:40.630
it had reached different countries. And so they

00:29:40.630 --> 00:29:43.150
knew that this person was coming to our country,

00:29:43.150 --> 00:29:47.019
and they were poaching deadly. And so I'm all,

00:29:47.019 --> 00:29:49.779
okay, cool. So I was able to get enough information,

00:29:49.900 --> 00:29:51.819
it was basic stuff, but enough information to

00:29:51.819 --> 00:29:54.099
find out who this person was. And so I'm like,

00:29:54.180 --> 00:29:57.039
okay. So I contacted Customs and Border Patrol

00:29:57.039 --> 00:29:59.220
and I said, hey, could you let me know if this

00:29:59.220 --> 00:30:01.140
guy comes to our country? We wanna get on him,

00:30:01.359 --> 00:30:03.799
he's committing these crimes. Right, and you

00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:05.980
know, this is actually a perfect place where

00:30:05.980 --> 00:30:12.619
the states can take advantage of the... abilities

00:30:12.619 --> 00:30:15.140
of the US Fish and Wildlife Service because US

00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:17.740
Fish and Wildlife Service can tap into those

00:30:17.740 --> 00:30:19.960
US Customs and Border Protection and Homeland

00:30:19.960 --> 00:30:22.420
Security Databases that give us heads up when

00:30:22.420 --> 00:30:24.500
people are coming in out of the country exactly

00:30:24.500 --> 00:30:26.880
exactly and eventually I would actually use one

00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:30.299
of your agents and and she would Facilitate all

00:30:30.299 --> 00:30:32.539
of that and letting us know because you know,

00:30:32.619 --> 00:30:35.210
we're not used to yeah this kind of international

00:30:35.210 --> 00:30:37.130
crime. I mean, we will work with other states

00:30:37.130 --> 00:30:38.710
sometimes when you have cross state stuff. But

00:30:38.710 --> 00:30:40.809
it's hard for you when it leaves California border

00:30:40.809 --> 00:30:42.809
and your jurisdiction ends. Exactly. So it's

00:30:42.809 --> 00:30:45.529
hard to do it. So and working with customs and

00:30:45.529 --> 00:30:47.309
knowing how to do it, it's kind of like, what

00:30:47.309 --> 00:30:50.549
the heck? So OK, so so anyway, you get this cool

00:30:50.549 --> 00:30:53.410
tip that I'm like, all right. Korean guys coming

00:30:53.410 --> 00:30:57.109
in. Exactly. To poach plants. So I get a call

00:30:57.109 --> 00:31:00.710
from customs. He's coming in. OK. Yeah, he's

00:31:00.710 --> 00:31:02.390
coming in he knew the date it was like in the

00:31:02.390 --> 00:31:04.210
next day or two Yeah, they usually get a heads

00:31:04.210 --> 00:31:07.029
up. Maybe sometimes a day or a few hours. Sometimes

00:31:07.029 --> 00:31:10.150
exactly a little bit of notice and and we're

00:31:10.150 --> 00:31:12.529
our team staged in Northern, California But we

00:31:12.529 --> 00:31:14.769
had enough I should say we I had enough time

00:31:14.769 --> 00:31:17.950
to get down here And set up a surveillance so

00:31:17.950 --> 00:31:19.990
I'm like, okay, I'm ready So I wasn't able to

00:31:19.990 --> 00:31:21.930
capture them at the airport because we didn't

00:31:21.930 --> 00:31:24.609
have a full team But he wrote down you came in

00:31:24.609 --> 00:31:29.700
down to LA So I came down to LAX and it was August

00:31:29.700 --> 00:31:32.299
of 2018. So I'm like, okay, I'm gonna try and

00:31:32.299 --> 00:31:33.920
find this guy, but again, a deal and a haystack.

00:31:34.299 --> 00:31:36.160
I'm like, oh my God, there's so many people and

00:31:36.160 --> 00:31:37.980
I totally miss the guy. I'm trying to look, I

00:31:37.980 --> 00:31:40.299
know what he looks like, Customs and Border Patrol,

00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:43.119
gave me a picture of him, but there's like thousands

00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:45.319
of people exiting, you know, it's the international

00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:47.740
part and I'm like, okay, this is not gonna happen.

00:31:48.359 --> 00:31:50.980
But Customs was able to provide me with information

00:31:50.980 --> 00:31:53.319
on where at least he claimed he was staying.

00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:56.000
So it was a hotel and I went to that hotel and

00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:58.279
sure enough I ended up running into him. So right

00:31:58.279 --> 00:32:02.559
on. So he ends up meeting with the gal. They

00:32:02.559 --> 00:32:04.599
stay the night and the next morning I was joined

00:32:04.599 --> 00:32:06.900
by a couple guys that were in SoCal so they can

00:32:06.900 --> 00:32:09.720
help me with the surveillance. And they only

00:32:09.720 --> 00:32:11.740
have one vehicle and it was the gal's vehicle.

00:32:11.779 --> 00:32:14.299
He was sharing that. So when she left I thought,

00:32:14.700 --> 00:32:16.380
well, you know, he's stuck there. Let's follow

00:32:16.380 --> 00:32:19.250
and see what she's... So we ended up following

00:32:19.250 --> 00:32:23.289
her to a international shipping company, Max

00:32:23.289 --> 00:32:25.710
Cargo Inc. in Compton. And I'm like, well, this

00:32:25.710 --> 00:32:28.029
is kind of interesting. They said there were

00:32:28.029 --> 00:32:29.849
some interesting ways of how he was getting them

00:32:29.849 --> 00:32:31.950
out of the country. Well, this looks pretty darn

00:32:31.950 --> 00:32:34.490
interesting. Well, it turned out she worked there,

00:32:34.509 --> 00:32:38.289
so we ended up leaving her. Exactly. And I went

00:32:38.289 --> 00:32:39.730
back to the hotel, because I'm like, I don't

00:32:39.730 --> 00:32:41.390
know, maybe he's going to Uber it up or something,

00:32:41.509 --> 00:32:44.089
you know? So I ended up sitting at the hotel

00:32:44.089 --> 00:32:47.539
for a while. you know he doesn't come out and

00:32:47.539 --> 00:32:49.900
next thing I know the the housekeeper goes in

00:32:49.900 --> 00:32:53.119
and he's not there and I'm like oh crud so he

00:32:53.119 --> 00:32:56.799
had left when we had followed her somehow um

00:32:56.799 --> 00:32:59.339
and he never came back so we stayed there for

00:32:59.339 --> 00:33:01.160
a couple days never came back and I ended up

00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:03.380
losing him so I learned that he was there for

00:33:03.380 --> 00:33:05.740
a couple weeks but still we had we had our first

00:33:05.740 --> 00:33:07.900
step we know the guy information yeah we have

00:33:07.900 --> 00:33:09.960
this international company okay he's connected

00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:14.759
to this export company exactly so you know Don't

00:33:14.759 --> 00:33:16.480
give anything away as far as law enforcement

00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:19.859
techniques. This kind of surveillance is very

00:33:19.859 --> 00:33:22.319
labor intensive. Oh, very. Yeah. I mean, explain

00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:24.799
to people how many how many state officers did

00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:26.579
you have working on this surveillance? And this

00:33:26.579 --> 00:33:28.259
would probably sounds like a light one. Yeah.

00:33:28.319 --> 00:33:30.880
So so that particular one was probably only three.

00:33:30.980 --> 00:33:33.160
But we would when we start getting the meat potatoes

00:33:33.160 --> 00:33:35.460
of this case, we'll have like seven or eight.

00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:37.059
Yeah, exactly. Because you're going around the

00:33:37.059 --> 00:33:38.960
clock. Yeah. And it's like you got to rotate

00:33:38.960 --> 00:33:40.779
people or people are going to get tired, you

00:33:40.779 --> 00:33:43.339
know. And that kind of surveillance is it's hours

00:33:43.339 --> 00:33:45.680
and hours of boredom sitting in a parking lot

00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:48.539
watching. And you can't like be on your phone,

00:33:48.799 --> 00:33:50.500
because if you're looking down, you'll miss what's

00:33:50.500 --> 00:33:53.460
happening. Exactly. And then, but the funny thing,

00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:55.460
I don't know if you agree with this or not, but

00:33:55.460 --> 00:33:58.619
my experience was I'd sit in a parking lot for

00:33:58.619 --> 00:34:00.880
hours and hours and hours with many other agents

00:34:00.880 --> 00:34:03.599
on a team spread out around and you're watching.

00:34:04.520 --> 00:34:06.880
and you're bored out of your mind, and then all

00:34:06.880 --> 00:34:08.519
of a sudden the bad guy comes out, and you completely

00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:10.019
forgot, you've been sitting there for six hours,

00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:13.460
and now it's all fun. It's all worth it because

00:34:13.460 --> 00:34:15.500
now the bad guy's doing something. Oh, totally.

00:34:16.340 --> 00:34:18.800
Or when you're doing around -the -clock surveillance,

00:34:19.059 --> 00:34:20.880
you know, what we would do is say, okay, everybody

00:34:20.880 --> 00:34:23.739
go to sleep in your car, and one person's awake,

00:34:23.780 --> 00:34:26.280
but have your radio cranked up, and that person

00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:27.900
gets on the radio and says, oh, he's coming out,

00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:29.900
and you have to jump up, your hair is going crazy,

00:34:29.980 --> 00:34:31.679
and you're jumping in the front, and you're like,

00:34:31.699 --> 00:34:34.230
oh my god, okay, it's just... have the hearts

00:34:34.230 --> 00:34:36.309
beating you have the coca -colas the caffeine

00:34:36.309 --> 00:34:39.090
whatever caffeine you'd have is has to be going

00:34:39.090 --> 00:34:43.969
exactly it's fun but also crazy all right anyway

00:34:43.969 --> 00:34:47.250
I mean interrupt but I think listeners will be

00:34:47.250 --> 00:34:49.630
fascinated to know this goes on you know there

00:34:49.630 --> 00:34:52.590
are teams of law enforcement officers working

00:34:52.590 --> 00:34:55.210
a case and they might be in your neighborhood

00:34:55.210 --> 00:34:56.789
and you'll never see them. You'll never know

00:34:56.789 --> 00:34:58.489
they're there. We're in regular vehicles. Regular

00:34:58.489 --> 00:35:00.869
vehicles. Might look like work vehicles. I wore

00:35:00.869 --> 00:35:03.670
flip flops to school. I went to school to work.

00:35:04.090 --> 00:35:06.849
I felt like I was in school. Shorts, yeah. Ponytail.

00:35:06.849 --> 00:35:08.530
They'll never see them. They'll never know they

00:35:08.530 --> 00:35:11.030
were there and you might have, yeah, half a dozen

00:35:11.030 --> 00:35:13.769
to a dozen law enforcement officers in your,

00:35:14.210 --> 00:35:16.050
right where you are watching somebody. Exactly.

00:35:16.050 --> 00:35:19.530
Kind of cool. Exactly. But like everything, the

00:35:19.530 --> 00:35:22.090
surveillance don't always work out perfectly.

00:35:22.349 --> 00:35:24.309
Sometimes you lose them because you don't want

00:35:24.309 --> 00:35:26.070
to get burned, right? You got to make sure they

00:35:26.070 --> 00:35:28.349
don't see you. So sometimes that means you lose

00:35:28.349 --> 00:35:30.289
them. Exactly. In this case, we didn't have enough

00:35:30.289 --> 00:35:33.409
people and I lost them. But I said, OK, you know,

00:35:33.710 --> 00:35:35.730
it sounded like from what the tip said, this

00:35:35.730 --> 00:35:37.829
guy was coming here a lot. So I had a feeling

00:35:37.829 --> 00:35:40.590
he'd be back. And he did spend two weeks in our

00:35:40.590 --> 00:35:43.690
country. So he likely did some poaching. But

00:35:43.690 --> 00:35:46.440
I got another tip. It was in October. beginning

00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:49.820
of October 2018, and it was from Customs Guy

00:35:49.820 --> 00:35:51.900
again, and he's like, he's coming back. Same

00:35:51.900 --> 00:35:53.480
guy's coming back. And I'm like, cool. He's all,

00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:56.659
but he's leaving that very day to Mexico. And

00:35:56.659 --> 00:35:59.360
I'm like, okay. So he's coming into LA and then

00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:01.119
immediately going to Mexico. Yeah. Okay. But

00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:03.139
then I remember. What's this guy's name? Oh,

00:36:03.340 --> 00:36:05.539
sorry. Yeah. Hey, that would help. Byung -Soo

00:36:05.539 --> 00:36:07.539
Kim. Byung -Soo Kim. Byung -Soo Kim. South Korean

00:36:07.539 --> 00:36:10.340
national. Yes, exactly. Have you named your case

00:36:10.340 --> 00:36:13.199
yet at this point? Op Korean exports. Operation

00:36:13.199 --> 00:36:14.460
Korean exports. Yeah, because they were coming

00:36:14.460 --> 00:36:16.519
from Korea and they were exporting it supposedly,

00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:18.360
you know, not very creative. I like it. That's

00:36:18.360 --> 00:36:20.840
good. That's good. Operation Korean exports.

00:36:21.320 --> 00:36:23.440
Okay, so Byung -Soo Kim comes in, then he's going

00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:26.219
to Mexico. Why? And he has a partner, it turned

00:36:26.219 --> 00:36:28.380
out. So we were able to identify him. It was

00:36:28.380 --> 00:36:30.739
young and back. Okay. And so I'm like, okay,

00:36:30.780 --> 00:36:33.420
they're going to Mexico. But that I knew. I remember

00:36:33.420 --> 00:36:36.239
talking to the the expert that I worked for,

00:36:36.440 --> 00:36:40.719
the Dudley expert, and Mexico has a species of

00:36:40.719 --> 00:36:43.079
Dudley, a Dudley apacophytum that's endangered.

00:36:43.619 --> 00:36:46.280
So I'm like, oh my God, he's going and doing

00:36:46.280 --> 00:36:48.260
with that. And there's a lot of poaching involving

00:36:48.260 --> 00:36:51.500
Dudley apacophytum and the same things are very,

00:36:51.500 --> 00:36:55.219
very slow growers. And I remember, I think he

00:36:55.219 --> 00:36:57.139
had a few there and he would be like, don't even

00:36:57.139 --> 00:36:59.679
touch the leaves because there's a powder and

00:36:59.679 --> 00:37:01.360
you can ruin them now and all this stuff, you

00:37:01.360 --> 00:37:03.920
know. So it's a very sensitive species. And sure

00:37:03.920 --> 00:37:05.340
enough, he was going to Mexico. So I'm like,

00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:07.880
OK, this is. It fits. You know, it fits. Yeah,

00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:10.940
the profile. So I found out when he was coming

00:37:10.940 --> 00:37:12.739
back, he said he is going to return to the US.

00:37:12.760 --> 00:37:15.360
And I said, OK. So then I decide, OK, the day

00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:18.650
before he came back, I. drove all the way down

00:37:18.650 --> 00:37:21.530
to LA and this time we had a team with them because

00:37:21.530 --> 00:37:23.190
we're like okay it didn't work with just a few

00:37:23.190 --> 00:37:25.030
of us. We need our surveillance team. You got

00:37:25.030 --> 00:37:27.789
the full SOU team. Yes that's a full SOU team

00:37:27.789 --> 00:37:29.469
and we're ready for him and we're sitting up

00:37:29.469 --> 00:37:32.769
at LAX for his return and his partner and sure

00:37:32.769 --> 00:37:35.690
enough they um we had a couple guys on foot at

00:37:35.690 --> 00:37:37.929
the customs where you actually cross over and

00:37:37.929 --> 00:37:40.130
they're they're no to alert us you know do the

00:37:40.130 --> 00:37:41.610
little wing thing or whatever and we're watching

00:37:41.610 --> 00:37:43.710
for them and we see them right when they cross

00:37:43.710 --> 00:37:45.789
in which is good so our guys. At this point have

00:37:45.789 --> 00:37:48.139
you linked up with U .S. Fish and Wildlife? We

00:37:48.139 --> 00:37:51.780
have. We can get you into that part of the airport

00:37:51.780 --> 00:37:53.440
really easily. You're the one who got us into

00:37:53.440 --> 00:37:57.079
the airport. At this point, I said customs. I

00:37:57.079 --> 00:37:58.980
think you guys were the ones who were facilitating

00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:02.760
that relationship with them. But you guys definitely

00:38:02.760 --> 00:38:04.219
got us in the airport because there was no way.

00:38:04.219 --> 00:38:06.320
We were behind the scenes there with the customs

00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:09.320
guys. This is what I love about when the Fish

00:38:09.320 --> 00:38:11.239
and Wildlife Service works with the state agencies

00:38:11.239 --> 00:38:14.860
the way it's supposed to happen. We are supposed

00:38:14.860 --> 00:38:18.949
to be your FBI. Yeah. And if you have something

00:38:18.949 --> 00:38:21.849
going on outside the jurisdiction of your jurisdiction

00:38:21.849 --> 00:38:24.530
beyond the state borders, US Fish and Wildlife

00:38:24.530 --> 00:38:27.449
can step in and be a huge help to you. Totally.

00:38:27.550 --> 00:38:29.769
And it's not about stealing cases. No. It's about

00:38:29.769 --> 00:38:33.389
us bringing our resources to you so you guys

00:38:33.389 --> 00:38:35.489
can make a case. In fact, I'm not even sure.

00:38:36.389 --> 00:38:39.210
Doing surveillance without being in that position

00:38:39.210 --> 00:38:41.849
where we see them cross customs from the minute

00:38:41.849 --> 00:38:44.150
they come in Because it's just a fan right they

00:38:44.150 --> 00:38:46.090
all come out and how do you find again? It's

00:38:46.090 --> 00:38:49.030
a needle in a haystack But in this case the agent

00:38:49.030 --> 00:38:50.550
the Fish and Wildlife Service agent was able

00:38:50.550 --> 00:38:53.210
to take us literally right there And they had

00:38:53.210 --> 00:38:55.349
it set up that when they got alert they're crossing

00:38:55.349 --> 00:38:57.869
over now or this is him, right? We were able

00:38:57.869 --> 00:39:00.809
to follow from that point on so we also had some

00:39:00.809 --> 00:39:03.949
folks out on the streets in plane vehicles And

00:39:03.949 --> 00:39:08.059
so we watched them arrived they got on a bus

00:39:08.059 --> 00:39:11.179
to a rental car facility and we followed them

00:39:11.179 --> 00:39:13.579
there and they ended up renting a car and that

00:39:13.579 --> 00:39:16.519
began the whole thing you know and now you're

00:39:16.519 --> 00:39:18.800
in what they call a rolling surveillance exactly

00:39:18.800 --> 00:39:20.800
you're in cars and you're following these people

00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:22.739
where'd they go from the airport so from the

00:39:22.739 --> 00:39:25.500
airport they ended up um initially they went

00:39:25.500 --> 00:39:28.039
to the hotel they stayed the night in la yeah

00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:30.639
and in the morning they went to a nursery, which

00:39:30.639 --> 00:39:32.400
made me a little concerned. I'm like, oh gosh,

00:39:32.659 --> 00:39:34.119
so maybe they're getting these things from a

00:39:34.119 --> 00:39:36.679
nursery. So all we know is they went to this

00:39:36.679 --> 00:39:38.739
nursery called Secret Garden Nursery in Vista.

00:39:39.139 --> 00:39:41.179
So this is kind of like San Diego area, Vista,

00:39:41.179 --> 00:39:43.500
California is where it's at. So we're like, okay,

00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:45.300
we weren't able to set up surveillance on the

00:39:45.300 --> 00:39:47.699
nursery at this time, but we knew that that's

00:39:47.699 --> 00:39:49.880
where they went. And we're like, okay, well,

00:39:50.199 --> 00:39:52.280
let's see. It's still, we might have a case.

00:39:52.619 --> 00:39:54.989
So anyways. We end up following them to Costco.

00:39:55.070 --> 00:39:56.849
They leave the nursery, go to a Costco, and we

00:39:56.849 --> 00:39:58.469
look in the car. We're able to peer in through

00:39:58.469 --> 00:40:00.650
the windows, and we notice there's backpacks

00:40:00.650 --> 00:40:03.210
in there, and there's boxes, and we're like,

00:40:04.110 --> 00:40:05.809
okay, you know, if you're going to a nursery,

00:40:05.909 --> 00:40:07.809
you're not going to say, hey, thank you for my

00:40:07.809 --> 00:40:09.750
plant, and throw it in a backpack. So now we're

00:40:09.750 --> 00:40:11.949
hopeful. They're going collecting. So sure enough,

00:40:12.429 --> 00:40:14.769
we keep following them. They end up going to

00:40:14.769 --> 00:40:17.050
the airport, picking up a third person, and that

00:40:17.050 --> 00:40:19.489
was Bong Ju Kim, and then they start heading

00:40:19.489 --> 00:40:23.389
north. When I mean north, I mean 850 miles north.

00:40:23.510 --> 00:40:28.030
Holy smokes. Instead of flying into San Francisco,

00:40:28.090 --> 00:40:30.110
they fly into LA and then they go north. Well,

00:40:30.309 --> 00:40:33.630
because the connection to the nursery, it will

00:40:33.630 --> 00:40:35.650
be connected later on. There's a lot more to

00:40:35.650 --> 00:40:37.789
it. At first I thought are they buying plants

00:40:37.789 --> 00:40:40.070
there? But it will turn out that they were using

00:40:40.070 --> 00:40:43.630
that as their hub. Got it. So yeah, so they get

00:40:43.630 --> 00:40:46.269
in their car and off we go and we had no idea

00:40:46.269 --> 00:40:47.949
where we're going right we're just following

00:40:47.949 --> 00:40:51.110
and we do this long trek all the way up to Crescent

00:40:51.110 --> 00:40:54.150
City and it was a long one and then they find

00:40:54.150 --> 00:40:56.710
a hotel and they get to sleep and we have to

00:40:56.710 --> 00:40:59.409
stay we're 24 hours right now people are rotating

00:40:59.409 --> 00:41:01.730
you're sleeping in your car and you know there's

00:41:01.730 --> 00:41:04.010
there's so many logistics that go into that so

00:41:04.010 --> 00:41:07.460
there's There's stationary surveillance and that

00:41:07.460 --> 00:41:10.320
can be tricky in a rural or an urban setting.

00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:11.699
And that's where you're sitting in the car and

00:41:11.699 --> 00:41:13.219
you're bored out of your mind or watching somebody.

00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:15.280
Then there's what's called rolling surveillance,

00:41:15.380 --> 00:41:17.780
where you're actually in vehicles following somebody

00:41:17.780 --> 00:41:20.219
and you can't change lanes when they change lanes.

00:41:20.219 --> 00:41:21.780
You can't make a right turn when they make a

00:41:21.780 --> 00:41:26.119
right turn. It's a very units that do a lot of

00:41:26.119 --> 00:41:27.780
rolling surveillance and know how to do it. They're

00:41:27.780 --> 00:41:29.820
very well trained. They're very well practiced.

00:41:30.300 --> 00:41:32.619
They work as a team. They communicate very well

00:41:32.619 --> 00:41:36.070
and they're almost invisible. right? The bad

00:41:36.070 --> 00:41:39.389
guys do not know they're there. But then you

00:41:39.389 --> 00:41:41.369
switch from you're doing this rolling surveillance

00:41:41.369 --> 00:41:43.510
in an urban environment like LA, which has to

00:41:43.510 --> 00:41:45.869
be pretty tight. It's easy to lose people in

00:41:45.869 --> 00:41:48.679
traffic. Then you get out on the highway. And

00:41:48.679 --> 00:41:50.260
now that's a whole different kind of rolling

00:41:50.260 --> 00:41:53.039
surveillance where it's pretty loose. Yeah. But

00:41:53.039 --> 00:41:55.139
now you're at higher speeds and you got to stop

00:41:55.139 --> 00:41:57.639
for gas and you got to time it. Yep. It's complicated.

00:41:57.679 --> 00:41:59.460
Oh, yeah. And you're having to fill up your gas.

00:41:59.460 --> 00:42:01.599
Yeah. That's what I mean. You got to get gas,

00:42:01.619 --> 00:42:04.320
right? You're like rotating people. Okay, I'm

00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:06.599
breaking off for gas. Somebody's got to use the

00:42:06.599 --> 00:42:09.840
bathroom. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, exactly. So this

00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:14.619
is awesome. Yeah. So 800 mile rolling surveillance.

00:42:14.679 --> 00:42:16.900
And we're already on them. Like I said, we came

00:42:16.900 --> 00:42:18.610
the day before and Then we start setting them

00:42:18.610 --> 00:42:20.449
up when they're sleeping in the hotel back in

00:42:20.449 --> 00:42:22.789
Vista, we were up all night as well. Doing the

00:42:22.789 --> 00:42:25.590
one person awake. Exactly, sleeping in your car

00:42:25.590 --> 00:42:27.489
the best you can so we end up following him.

00:42:27.849 --> 00:42:29.889
to Crescent City. You're exhausted. So now you're

00:42:29.889 --> 00:42:32.670
in a rural environment, which is really tricky

00:42:32.670 --> 00:42:34.889
for surveillance. Super hard. There's not all

00:42:34.889 --> 00:42:36.750
these cover cars that you could get in between

00:42:36.750 --> 00:42:39.170
them. It's you, right? So yeah, it's a little

00:42:39.170 --> 00:42:40.969
tricky. So they wake up in the morning and we're

00:42:40.969 --> 00:42:42.610
like, OK, let's see what happens. And sure enough,

00:42:42.690 --> 00:42:45.250
they drive to the coast. OK, they drive to De

00:42:45.250 --> 00:42:48.489
Martin State Beach, it was called. And it's also

00:42:48.489 --> 00:42:51.820
known as like North Coast. redwood state park

00:42:51.820 --> 00:42:55.000
i think is the other name and they park there

00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:56.960
and sure enough they get out with their backpacks

00:42:56.960 --> 00:43:01.329
okay game on it's happening right That's also

00:43:01.329 --> 00:43:03.889
true. Now everything's worth it, right? Exactly.

00:43:03.909 --> 00:43:05.090
You totally forgot. Thank God they're not buying

00:43:05.090 --> 00:43:06.989
them. Well, it would have been nice if they were

00:43:06.989 --> 00:43:08.369
buying them from nursery, but clearly they're

00:43:08.369 --> 00:43:10.150
not. They're here to poach, you know. But now

00:43:10.150 --> 00:43:12.949
you've totally forgotten about all the hassle

00:43:12.949 --> 00:43:14.570
you've been through for the last eight hours.

00:43:14.809 --> 00:43:17.349
Exactly. Exactly. Okay. And they have these empty

00:43:17.349 --> 00:43:20.070
backpacks on. Nice. Who hikes with empty backpacks,

00:43:20.150 --> 00:43:22.150
right? I mean, okay, they're going to put something

00:43:22.150 --> 00:43:23.909
in it. We're thinking. I love it. What'd you

00:43:23.909 --> 00:43:25.170
see? What'd you see? What'd you see them do?

00:43:25.190 --> 00:43:26.969
Okay, so what we see is we see them start hiking

00:43:26.969 --> 00:43:29.929
out. and hiking out and hiking out. And they

00:43:29.929 --> 00:43:33.190
go a mile away from the beach. Yeah. And they're

00:43:33.190 --> 00:43:35.630
going over rocks and we would later find ropes

00:43:35.630 --> 00:43:37.989
where they would use ropes to climb over these

00:43:37.989 --> 00:43:39.929
big boulders. I mean, they were pretty hardcore.

00:43:40.250 --> 00:43:43.070
Yeah. So they went really far out to an area

00:43:43.070 --> 00:43:47.699
we called Split Rock. It was this huge. Cathedral

00:43:47.699 --> 00:43:49.679
like rock and it was split in the middle. So

00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:51.739
we just named it split rock I don't know if they

00:43:51.739 --> 00:43:54.159
actually called it that way but doing surveillance

00:43:54.159 --> 00:43:56.219
on that was a little tricky super tricky Yeah,

00:43:56.239 --> 00:43:58.539
so we had a really far point that we can watch

00:43:58.539 --> 00:44:00.159
them from but it's not like we could just walk

00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:02.840
along the beach No behind them because no one's

00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:05.159
going out that far and they would see you even

00:44:05.159 --> 00:44:06.659
though there were areas where there were boulders

00:44:06.659 --> 00:44:08.840
You could hide behind them. The problem is is

00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:11.659
you'd have to go in these open areas So well

00:44:11.659 --> 00:44:15.179
and God forbid you you're seen hiding Yeah, way

00:44:15.179 --> 00:44:17.280
out there. That's not going to... You can't be

00:44:17.280 --> 00:44:18.760
like ducking behind boulders because they're

00:44:18.760 --> 00:44:20.460
definitely going to know you're a cop. Exactly.

00:44:21.019 --> 00:44:22.760
And even if they said, okay, someone hiking,

00:44:23.079 --> 00:44:25.260
that's only going to fly once, right? Once or

00:44:25.260 --> 00:44:27.039
twice. Same person hiking the next day. Nah,

00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:29.840
it's not going to add up. So we're like, okay,

00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:31.619
but we need to see what they're doing. So how

00:44:31.619 --> 00:44:34.300
do we do that? So we found that there was this

00:44:34.300 --> 00:44:37.300
vista, this little turnout that we can hike and

00:44:37.300 --> 00:44:39.659
it was pretty steep, hike down through all this

00:44:39.659 --> 00:44:41.920
shrub and we could get down there and we had

00:44:41.920 --> 00:44:44.400
cover and we can actually watch them from that.

00:44:44.679 --> 00:44:48.719
Nice. Perfect. So myself and Warden Bagdasarian,

00:44:49.239 --> 00:44:52.099
we did that part and we have people, when you're

00:44:52.099 --> 00:44:53.860
doing surveillance, you have people that... are

00:44:53.860 --> 00:44:56.139
doing this part of it. We were the follow team

00:44:56.139 --> 00:44:58.519
on foot. We have someone who's watching from

00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:00.679
afar with their spotting scope. You have other

00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:02.960
people that are set up on the car when it returns.

00:45:03.320 --> 00:45:05.519
Other people ready for the follow. I mean, there's

00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:07.760
all these different positions. So we decide to

00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:11.920
height down this bluff. And I learned that North

00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:18.900
Coast has steamy nettle. Oh, the hard way. We're

00:45:18.900 --> 00:45:20.900
back to Syria and I were trying to be really

00:45:20.900 --> 00:45:23.019
cool and stealth and hike down this deep bluff

00:45:23.019 --> 00:45:26.059
end up falling down into this really deep. I

00:45:26.059 --> 00:45:28.320
don't know. It's kind of a hole in both of us.

00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:30.579
It takes us both out and I'm like, what is this

00:45:30.579 --> 00:45:33.739
kind of tingling? He's all it's nettle is stinging

00:45:33.739 --> 00:45:36.219
that I'm like, oh great. So but anyways, we end

00:45:36.219 --> 00:45:38.880
up extracting ourselves from this very stinging

00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:40.599
nettle stuff that I didn't even know we had.

00:45:41.050 --> 00:45:44.349
We end up getting a great point and we end up

00:45:44.349 --> 00:45:46.929
watching them and They're climbing up on the

00:45:46.929 --> 00:45:49.070
bluffs and sure enough. They're pulling out these

00:45:49.070 --> 00:45:52.030
big old clumps of Dudley Tossing them down to

00:45:52.030 --> 00:45:55.170
each other Wow, and it was all three of them

00:45:55.170 --> 00:45:57.530
were doing it and interesting They would actually

00:45:57.530 --> 00:46:00.050
take off all the soil from them and they were

00:46:00.050 --> 00:46:02.469
sorting them and putting them in backpacks and

00:46:02.469 --> 00:46:05.369
stuff like that and then we continue to watch

00:46:05.369 --> 00:46:07.630
and they did this for hours and we noticed that

00:46:07.630 --> 00:46:10.210
there would be one person at a time watch Acting

00:46:10.210 --> 00:46:12.530
is kind of the lookout you'd see that they would

00:46:12.530 --> 00:46:14.710
walk up to a boulder look around make sure no

00:46:14.710 --> 00:46:17.210
one was coming and do some stuff like that interesting

00:46:17.210 --> 00:46:19.449
So we watched all this and they filled up their

00:46:19.449 --> 00:46:21.550
backpacks with these Dudleyas and they were like

00:46:21.550 --> 00:46:24.969
I said Climbing up the these cliffs and stuff

00:46:24.969 --> 00:46:27.449
stepping all over the other vegetation doing

00:46:27.449 --> 00:46:29.690
a lot of damage Yeah, exactly all this erosion

00:46:29.690 --> 00:46:32.250
and things so they get their backpacks field

00:46:32.250 --> 00:46:35.179
and then they start hiking back. And the thing

00:46:35.179 --> 00:46:37.059
about hiking back, in this particular case, we

00:46:37.059 --> 00:46:39.420
decide, well, we are going to try to risk it

00:46:39.420 --> 00:46:41.820
because you're more likely, oh, on the first

00:46:41.820 --> 00:46:43.280
one, I don't think we didn't follow them in,

00:46:43.300 --> 00:46:45.300
but on a future one, we would actually follow

00:46:45.300 --> 00:46:47.340
them in, but hide behind rocks and be a little

00:46:47.340 --> 00:46:49.039
more stealthy. But on this one, we stayed where

00:46:49.039 --> 00:46:51.480
we were and we sort of did, but not too much

00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:54.530
because we were kind of... You're being conservative,

00:46:54.590 --> 00:46:56.429
you know, when you start getting more familiar

00:46:56.429 --> 00:46:58.070
with the surveillance, you start taking bigger

00:46:58.070 --> 00:47:00.030
risks. Exactly. But this was the first time.

00:47:00.090 --> 00:47:02.190
So in this case, we were just kind of staying

00:47:02.190 --> 00:47:04.809
kind of far if we could. And so when they start

00:47:04.809 --> 00:47:06.829
hiking and we noticed they're using radios and

00:47:06.829 --> 00:47:09.630
they kind of split up and one person, they end

00:47:09.630 --> 00:47:11.789
up dropping the backpack and leaving it. And

00:47:11.789 --> 00:47:14.250
when they get close to the beach with their cars.

00:47:15.090 --> 00:47:17.429
He goes in without the backpack. The backpack's

00:47:17.429 --> 00:47:20.750
left behind. So they're smart. He's looking around,

00:47:20.750 --> 00:47:23.010
you know, and then he starts, they're using hand

00:47:23.010 --> 00:47:24.750
signals and he ends up flagging the other guys

00:47:24.750 --> 00:47:26.809
in and they end up. going back to the car with

00:47:26.809 --> 00:47:29.369
the backpacks. You know what? Nothing says intent

00:47:29.369 --> 00:47:31.969
better than that. I love it. Don't you? Reduce,

00:47:31.969 --> 00:47:33.969
communicate. Yeah. You know you're breaking the

00:47:33.969 --> 00:47:35.590
law when you're doing stuff like that. You can't

00:47:35.590 --> 00:47:37.590
claim I didn't know it was illegal. Exactly.

00:47:37.650 --> 00:47:39.510
Those are the best suspects. Oh, totally. Because

00:47:39.510 --> 00:47:41.869
it's like no mercy, right? They know they're

00:47:41.869 --> 00:47:44.170
breaking their law. Exactly. No sympathy for

00:47:44.170 --> 00:47:46.050
those guys. So we end up following them. They

00:47:46.050 --> 00:47:47.829
go to a Safeway and we end up videoing them,

00:47:47.909 --> 00:47:49.429
sorting out the Dudleias and putting them in

00:47:49.429 --> 00:47:51.289
those boxes we mentioned and some totes. Like

00:47:51.289 --> 00:47:53.610
in the Safeway parking lot? Yeah. So in the Safeway

00:47:53.610 --> 00:47:55.150
parking lot, they're actually sorting them out.

00:47:55.079 --> 00:47:58.719
and then they go back. But this time, they end

00:47:58.719 --> 00:48:01.659
up with that Vista I talked to you about, they

00:48:01.659 --> 00:48:03.380
end up parking there. Well, not parking there,

00:48:03.460 --> 00:48:05.699
pulling into that Vista area and two guys jump

00:48:05.699 --> 00:48:07.599
out of the car and the other guy drives away.

00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:10.440
So now they're doing drop -offs and he parks

00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:13.199
at the beach and they hike down the same area.

00:48:13.320 --> 00:48:15.519
I'm like, oh crud, that we had heights down.

00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:17.500
They went down that way. Where you're in the

00:48:17.500 --> 00:48:18.539
nettles, where you're hiding in the nettles.

00:48:18.900 --> 00:48:21.119
Exactly. And they ended up having backpacks.

00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:25.480
I don't know. if somebody else or if it was us,

00:48:25.679 --> 00:48:27.360
they kind of got him hinked up, got a little

00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:30.400
scared, and they end up leaving empty -handed.

00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:34.380
They stashed what they had. Yeah. So we saw them

00:48:34.380 --> 00:48:37.079
harvesting, and yet they left empty -handed,

00:48:37.179 --> 00:48:39.800
and we walked down there and we found piles of

00:48:39.800 --> 00:48:42.320
Dudleya. So I think maybe they got a little nervous.

00:48:43.179 --> 00:48:45.159
Sometimes, you know, they get spooked about stuff

00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:47.079
that has nothing to do with the surveillance

00:48:47.079 --> 00:48:48.940
team. And you're right. They might have seen

00:48:48.940 --> 00:48:51.400
the same car drive through that was just a tourist

00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:53.519
and it happened to drive through twice. Exactly.

00:48:54.579 --> 00:48:56.420
Exactly. In fact, you know, what was funny is

00:48:56.420 --> 00:48:59.639
during this case, when we were getting ready

00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:02.019
to hike down the Vista one of the days, someone

00:49:02.019 --> 00:49:04.599
was it was a Vista. So it's a beautiful view.

00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:07.159
So tourists park there every now and then, you

00:49:07.159 --> 00:49:09.400
know, just stop for the little quick shoot. You

00:49:09.400 --> 00:49:11.639
know, can't control the public. Exactly. And

00:49:11.639 --> 00:49:15.260
they sent off a drone. Oh, and I'm like, what's

00:49:15.260 --> 00:49:17.360
going on? And sure enough, we see this drone

00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:19.659
and law enforcement doesn't like to be video,

00:49:19.659 --> 00:49:22.199
especially when you're undercover. Yeah. So that

00:49:22.199 --> 00:49:24.559
was kind of funny. But anyways, we end up watching

00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:27.519
them for a few days. And on the third day, I

00:49:27.519 --> 00:49:29.559
thought, OK, this is you know, we're pretty tired

00:49:29.559 --> 00:49:31.440
by now around the clock surveillance. This is

00:49:31.440 --> 00:49:33.340
getting old. So I end up getting a tracker warrant.

00:49:33.380 --> 00:49:37.920
We end up installing it on the vehicle. And and

00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:39.559
one of the hardest things to do when you're the

00:49:39.559 --> 00:49:43.019
case agent is saying we need to pull off for

00:49:43.019 --> 00:49:45.139
now and people need a little rest. Yeah, that's

00:49:45.139 --> 00:49:47.320
a hard call to make. And I decided we're gonna

00:49:47.320 --> 00:49:49.519
do it. We've got the tracker on. We already had,

00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:51.099
we had watched them for three days. Yeah, you

00:49:51.099 --> 00:49:52.920
know what they're doing. Doing it. Yeah. Documented

00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:54.280
everything you need to document. Exactly. We've

00:49:54.280 --> 00:49:56.340
got it all on video. Beautiful video showing

00:49:56.340 --> 00:49:58.800
them pulling these clumps and stuff. And so let's

00:49:58.800 --> 00:50:00.360
take a break. And what we're gonna do is when

00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:02.320
they start heading back, see what the heck they're

00:50:02.320 --> 00:50:04.539
doing with these things. Right. And so sure enough.

00:50:04.539 --> 00:50:07.320
That was smart. Yeah, so so so we end up doing

00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:10.179
that we all go home and then I got to interrupt

00:50:10.179 --> 00:50:11.960
because I realized some of our listeners might

00:50:11.960 --> 00:50:13.880
not want to not know what a tracker is they'll

00:50:13.880 --> 00:50:16.239
probably assume but basically a tracker is a

00:50:16.239 --> 00:50:20.750
G it's a uh item you put on a car and it gives

00:50:20.750 --> 00:50:23.349
you uh gps coordinates of that vehicle and you

00:50:23.349 --> 00:50:25.289
can kind of monitor it remotely yeah and it's

00:50:25.289 --> 00:50:27.650
real time it's real time and it's real and you

00:50:27.650 --> 00:50:29.570
do have to have a warrant to put it on somebody's

00:50:29.570 --> 00:50:31.630
vehicle now you do you didn't didn't use to but

00:50:31.630 --> 00:50:34.710
now you do we used to love to go slap slap trackers

00:50:34.710 --> 00:50:37.190
on people's cars but yeah you do have to have

00:50:37.190 --> 00:50:40.389
a warrant now supreme court ruling but uh the

00:50:40.389 --> 00:50:42.599
thing about GPS trackers is they'll tell you

00:50:42.599 --> 00:50:44.199
where a car's where cars going, but they won't

00:50:44.199 --> 00:50:45.780
tell you what the people are doing. Exactly.

00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:47.980
You got to have that eyes on to see what they

00:50:47.980 --> 00:50:50.539
do where they go. But in your case, you'd already

00:50:50.539 --> 00:50:52.400
documented what they were doing. So now you just

00:50:52.400 --> 00:50:54.119
need to kind of make sure you know where they

00:50:54.119 --> 00:50:56.219
are. Yeah. And we were able they ended up staying

00:50:56.219 --> 00:50:58.619
there for I think it was about a week. They were

00:50:58.619 --> 00:51:02.179
going to the beach. So they're taking a lot of

00:51:02.179 --> 00:51:05.900
exactly exactly. Wow. So we're like, okay, this

00:51:05.900 --> 00:51:07.880
is going on. We want to see what what's going

00:51:07.880 --> 00:51:09.300
to happen with these guys. Now, what do they

00:51:09.300 --> 00:51:11.500
do with them once they got them? Exactly, exactly.

00:51:11.920 --> 00:51:14.420
So what you can do also with a tracker is ping

00:51:14.420 --> 00:51:16.519
like you could say, OK, if they leave this area,

00:51:16.519 --> 00:51:19.179
ping me, you know, but I'm also I'm actively

00:51:19.179 --> 00:51:21.340
on my computer watching what these guys are doing.

00:51:21.559 --> 00:51:23.780
And sure enough, I see him start heading south.

00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:25.840
And I'm like, you guys, I think it's probably

00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:28.099
about time and I think they're leaving. So we

00:51:28.099 --> 00:51:29.679
end up getting in our cars and start heading

00:51:29.679 --> 00:51:32.639
north and we end up intersecting them in reading,

00:51:32.840 --> 00:51:38.389
which is probably. I'm not gonna guess four hours

00:51:38.389 --> 00:51:40.909
is a ways from them, but we end up intercepting

00:51:40.909 --> 00:51:43.510
actually I intercept them there and then I meet

00:51:43.510 --> 00:51:45.230
up with the rest of the team in Sacramento and

00:51:45.230 --> 00:51:47.820
we follow them all the way down to Vista. Wow.

00:51:48.119 --> 00:51:50.019
And they got a late start, so we didn't get back

00:51:50.019 --> 00:51:51.719
to Vista till three in the morning. So that was

00:51:51.719 --> 00:51:53.239
very hardcore. One of those where you're going,

00:51:53.400 --> 00:51:55.739
wake up, you know, and you have the air conditioning

00:51:55.739 --> 00:51:57.920
on, it's winter, you know, you're trying to stay

00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:00.760
awake. Yeah. So that was a pretty hardcore follow,

00:52:00.820 --> 00:52:03.159
but we made it. And of course they get to go

00:52:03.159 --> 00:52:06.300
to sleep and the hotel and we have to stay up.

00:52:07.579 --> 00:52:11.119
But then the next morning we had an idea that

00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:13.380
they might be going to that nursery, you know?

00:52:13.579 --> 00:52:15.860
So we had done some pre -surveillance on that

00:52:15.860 --> 00:52:18.199
nursery to find out is there any lookout points

00:52:18.199 --> 00:52:21.860
and so forth. And so we were able to find a spot.

00:52:21.880 --> 00:52:24.179
It was kind of a weird thing through a neighborhood

00:52:24.179 --> 00:52:26.820
and stuff where we can actually watch them when

00:52:26.820 --> 00:52:28.599
they went up to this nursery and they went into

00:52:28.599 --> 00:52:31.800
this nursery and parked in front of one of the

00:52:31.800 --> 00:52:33.739
greenhouses and start offloading all the plants.

00:52:34.440 --> 00:52:36.599
when they start going into this nursery. So I'm

00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:38.599
like, this is really interesting. So what are

00:52:38.599 --> 00:52:41.920
they doing here? So we watched that, get that

00:52:41.920 --> 00:52:45.460
all on video, and then sure enough, I'm like,

00:52:45.599 --> 00:52:48.380
okay, we've got a lot. In fact, it's time to

00:52:48.380 --> 00:52:50.380
start writing some paperwork, some search warrants,

00:52:50.559 --> 00:52:52.719
arrest warrants, and those sort of things. But

00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:54.019
they get in the vehicle and they start heading

00:52:54.019 --> 00:52:56.340
north again. I'm like, ah, crud. Without the

00:52:56.340 --> 00:52:59.280
plants now. The plants get left there. And this

00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:01.730
is that, what's the name of the nursery? Secret

00:53:01.730 --> 00:53:04.590
garden in Vista, California. Okay, so they leave

00:53:04.590 --> 00:53:07.369
the plants there. Yes. And when I say the nursery,

00:53:07.550 --> 00:53:09.989
I should say this is a huge nursery. Okay. And

00:53:09.989 --> 00:53:12.150
they have all these greenhouses. Yeah. And so

00:53:12.150 --> 00:53:14.429
we would later find out that they rented a greenhouse.

00:53:14.550 --> 00:53:17.050
So the nursery didn't have no idea. They weren't

00:53:17.050 --> 00:53:19.369
part of this. They just rented this greenhouse

00:53:19.369 --> 00:53:22.110
and this guy was doing, you know, business. Okay.

00:53:22.150 --> 00:53:24.730
So I don't think that they had any idea of what

00:53:24.730 --> 00:53:28.380
was going on. So what was your impression at

00:53:28.380 --> 00:53:30.320
this point? Well, at this point, you probably

00:53:30.320 --> 00:53:32.480
didn't know. But ultimately, what do you think?

00:53:32.960 --> 00:53:34.820
My first thought when you said they were taking

00:53:34.820 --> 00:53:37.059
things to a nursery was they were going to try

00:53:37.059 --> 00:53:40.309
to launder it and make it look like it was. you

00:53:40.309 --> 00:53:42.349
know, propagated here. You get a gold star. Oh,

00:53:42.349 --> 00:53:43.269
is that what they were doing? Because that's

00:53:43.269 --> 00:53:46.130
what's going to happen. Oh, you told the secret.

00:53:46.449 --> 00:53:48.550
I'm sorry. Well, when you were talking and I

00:53:48.550 --> 00:53:50.190
was saying, well, oh, maybe they're just using

00:53:50.190 --> 00:53:52.190
that as a storage facility, but they were going

00:53:52.190 --> 00:53:54.269
to launder. Oh, they would do some really secret

00:53:54.269 --> 00:53:56.530
stuff. So at this point, we're like, OK, we've

00:53:56.530 --> 00:53:57.909
got to split because I've got to start writing

00:53:57.909 --> 00:53:59.750
some serious paperwork, right? All the warrants

00:53:59.750 --> 00:54:01.849
and you know, the not so fun stuff. And so we

00:54:01.849 --> 00:54:03.989
send the team off and this time they go to Sonoma

00:54:03.989 --> 00:54:07.269
Coast, which isn't as far, maybe 600 miles. It

00:54:07.269 --> 00:54:09.840
isn't as far north. It's more central. coast,

00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:13.480
you know, just above San Francisco. And they

00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:15.500
sure enough, they do more harvesting. More poaching.

00:54:15.559 --> 00:54:17.940
Oh, yeah. Geez. Yeah, a lot more poaching. And

00:54:17.940 --> 00:54:20.579
they watch them do that. And while I'm simultaneously

00:54:20.579 --> 00:54:24.159
getting this paperwork done. And I decided I

00:54:24.159 --> 00:54:25.539
remember I talked to some folks and they said

00:54:25.539 --> 00:54:28.559
that they don't do Ramey warrants, which are

00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:31.380
arrest warrants for individuals. Someone had

00:54:31.380 --> 00:54:34.489
told me that. Yeah. So explain a Ramey warrant.

00:54:34.570 --> 00:54:37.969
We never use those in the federal system, but...

00:54:37.969 --> 00:54:40.090
So we rarely use them too. And I was told LA

00:54:40.090 --> 00:54:42.650
didn't do it, but it turns out it's wrong. But

00:54:42.650 --> 00:54:46.510
it's where you actually want them to not just

00:54:46.510 --> 00:54:48.829
put in jail and get arrested. You actually want

00:54:48.829 --> 00:54:50.449
there to be an arrest warrant, so they have to

00:54:50.449 --> 00:54:52.329
actually go to jail and actually go through the

00:54:52.329 --> 00:54:53.949
whole system of meeting with a judge and that

00:54:53.949 --> 00:54:56.469
sort of thing. It's more of a conservative way

00:54:56.469 --> 00:54:59.710
of doing things. And I went that route because

00:54:59.710 --> 00:55:02.230
these guys... are from South Korea and at any

00:55:02.230 --> 00:55:04.210
time they can just leave the country, right?

00:55:05.190 --> 00:55:07.110
This makes it a little different than what we

00:55:07.110 --> 00:55:09.230
would call in the business a PC arrest, right?

00:55:09.320 --> 00:55:13.079
Yeah, so PC signing off and saying you have met

00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:15.079
you have probable cause I have probable cause

00:55:15.079 --> 00:55:17.219
I've met it and we have I mean I'm showing them

00:55:17.219 --> 00:55:20.079
pictures of my the deadly and stuff and he's

00:55:20.079 --> 00:55:22.519
like oh overwhelming yeah in fact I thought I

00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:24.300
had beyond a reasonable doubt at that point you

00:55:24.300 --> 00:55:26.880
know so so for our listeners the difference here

00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:29.659
is sometimes an officer whether they're federal

00:55:29.659 --> 00:55:31.960
or state will be out in the field they will encounter

00:55:31.960 --> 00:55:34.500
somebody committing a crime the officer will

00:55:34.500 --> 00:55:37.019
make the determination I have probable cause

00:55:37.230 --> 00:55:39.349
to arrest this person. They'll make the arrest

00:55:39.349 --> 00:55:41.170
on the spot. That's called a PC arrest. Yep,

00:55:41.210 --> 00:55:43.989
exactly. And this Ramey warrant is, and feds

00:55:43.989 --> 00:55:46.090
do this too. We'll go to a judge in advance.

00:55:46.150 --> 00:55:48.210
And they order it. Yeah, we usually do it through

00:55:48.210 --> 00:55:50.110
what's called a complaint in the federal system.

00:55:50.110 --> 00:55:52.650
And we'll say, here's the facts we got, judge.

00:55:52.829 --> 00:55:54.750
We'll swear it in front of the judge. And then

00:55:54.750 --> 00:55:57.829
they'll say, I agree. You have probable cause.

00:55:58.130 --> 00:56:00.489
I authorize you to go arrest them. Exactly. Yeah.

00:56:00.730 --> 00:56:02.110
So it's a little bit like you said, you kind

00:56:02.110 --> 00:56:05.769
of go, the minute the handcuffs go on, it's a

00:56:05.769 --> 00:56:08.920
little bit It's a beefier kind of warning. Yeah,

00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:11.519
it's safe. But judges signed off on it. This

00:56:11.519 --> 00:56:14.360
is bigger time. Yeah, exactly. So I wanted to

00:56:14.360 --> 00:56:16.500
make sure everything was good because of this

00:56:16.500 --> 00:56:18.840
whole international connection. That was smart.

00:56:19.039 --> 00:56:20.980
That was really smart. Because these guys will

00:56:20.980 --> 00:56:24.719
flee as we might find out. The other thing was

00:56:24.719 --> 00:56:27.199
is, you know, a tricky thing as a state warden

00:56:27.199 --> 00:56:29.949
and maybe with you guys too. Given the fact that

00:56:29.949 --> 00:56:31.570
they're going to Crescent City, they're going

00:56:31.570 --> 00:56:34.690
to Sonoma, they're going to San Diego. These

00:56:34.690 --> 00:56:36.530
are three different counties. They're going to

00:56:36.530 --> 00:56:39.269
LA. So we have all these different places. And

00:56:39.269 --> 00:56:41.110
it's a state game where I get to pick where I

00:56:41.110 --> 00:56:43.210
want to prosecute. Same for the feds. Okay. And

00:56:43.210 --> 00:56:45.829
I usually want to pick where the crime happened.

00:56:46.010 --> 00:56:48.369
And although the crime's being taken back to

00:56:48.369 --> 00:56:50.590
San Diego and eventually they would ship it,

00:56:51.750 --> 00:56:53.809
the people that were wronged were the Northern...

00:56:53.840 --> 00:56:56.260
people and they take it a lot more serious. You're

00:56:56.260 --> 00:56:59.400
here in my area, my backyard. Yeah. And still,

00:56:59.440 --> 00:57:02.099
and they take it personally. So I wanted, and

00:57:02.099 --> 00:57:05.019
I needed to get them from San Diego to Crescent

00:57:05.019 --> 00:57:07.139
city, which would eventually be a big deal. So

00:57:07.139 --> 00:57:09.280
anyways, they ended up falling back. Same thing

00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:12.280
happens. They end up taking the Dudley as to

00:57:12.280 --> 00:57:14.880
the nursery and we watched the offload. So we're

00:57:14.880 --> 00:57:18.119
like, okay. Um, and then something curious happens.

00:57:18.199 --> 00:57:22.860
Young Sue Kim drives to a county office. An inspector

00:57:22.860 --> 00:57:25.340
to where they do inspection plan inspection.

00:57:25.340 --> 00:57:28.619
I'm going what? You know, and he meets up with

00:57:28.619 --> 00:57:32.739
the county inspector. So and he he makes some

00:57:32.739 --> 00:57:34.860
sort of arrangement. We we didn't know what was

00:57:34.860 --> 00:57:36.800
going on, but then he leaves and we go in there

00:57:36.800 --> 00:57:39.099
idea herself and say what the heck's going on

00:57:39.099 --> 00:57:42.119
here? We find out he set up an appointment for

00:57:42.119 --> 00:57:46.380
that day for them to inspect this plants. And

00:57:46.380 --> 00:57:48.780
I'm like inspect the plants he poached. What

00:57:48.780 --> 00:57:51.059
can I see the paperwork? Sure enough, it says

00:57:51.059 --> 00:57:53.800
that they. got them all in San Diego is where

00:57:53.800 --> 00:57:56.239
they got all the plants and from the nursery.

00:57:56.519 --> 00:57:59.420
Yeah, exactly. So and so now he's going to try

00:57:59.420 --> 00:58:01.059
and make this a legitimate business by having

00:58:01.059 --> 00:58:03.039
this inspector who doesn't know he didn't watch

00:58:03.039 --> 00:58:05.099
all the surveillance, right? Sign off on it.

00:58:05.099 --> 00:58:06.900
And now it'd be good to go as soon as he does

00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:10.199
that. Right. So like, OK, so we let them in on

00:58:10.199 --> 00:58:13.070
it. Hey, you know. Okay, now I got sorry to interrupt

00:58:13.070 --> 00:58:14.969
you again, because the reason he's doing this

00:58:14.969 --> 00:58:17.769
is because this is awesome. He's smart guy. Oh,

00:58:17.809 --> 00:58:20.469
yeah. When you export plants legally from the

00:58:20.469 --> 00:58:25.269
US, you have to have what's called a site phytosanitary

00:58:25.269 --> 00:58:28.369
permit certificate. And that's just to ensure

00:58:28.369 --> 00:58:30.610
that there's no pests or diseases on the plants

00:58:30.610 --> 00:58:32.469
before they're moving international commerce.

00:58:32.530 --> 00:58:35.510
Exactly. So yeah, so he's setting it up for easy.

00:58:35.820 --> 00:58:37.880
I didn't even know this. Beautiful launderer.

00:58:37.880 --> 00:58:40.219
Well, another great reason to have the feds involved,

00:58:40.500 --> 00:58:42.139
right? Because we deal with this crap all the

00:58:42.139 --> 00:58:44.840
time. Yeah, I'm like a Fido what? You know? Yeah,

00:58:44.900 --> 00:58:47.179
I can't even pronounce it, but some sort of...

00:58:47.079 --> 00:58:50.340
So now you have, you talk about interagency though.

00:58:50.639 --> 00:58:52.519
So now you have the feds, the state, and now

00:58:52.519 --> 00:58:54.760
you have a county inspector that's involved.

00:58:55.239 --> 00:58:57.400
And, you know, and we're always, you know, who

00:58:57.400 --> 00:58:59.420
are you going to let know what's going on? But

00:58:59.420 --> 00:59:01.260
we decide, hey, you know, we're going to tell

00:59:01.260 --> 00:59:04.159
them what's going on. And we get that we convince

00:59:04.159 --> 00:59:06.420
them to let one of our officers go in with them.

00:59:06.519 --> 00:59:09.000
Nice. To do the inspection on the plants. So

00:59:09.000 --> 00:59:11.099
we can video and hear what's going on. Yeah,

00:59:11.260 --> 00:59:13.840
absolutely. They were very cooperative. Brilliant.

00:59:14.039 --> 00:59:16.159
So we go in there and they inspect the plants

00:59:16.159 --> 00:59:18.179
and they had taken, apparently part of the thing

00:59:18.179 --> 00:59:20.699
of getting a phytosanitary certificate, you can't

00:59:20.699 --> 00:59:23.079
have any soil. That's why they were getting all

00:59:23.079 --> 00:59:25.659
the soil off. Yeah, so you can't have any soil

00:59:25.659 --> 00:59:27.639
on it. They have to be clean plants because I

00:59:27.639 --> 00:59:30.340
guess that's where some of the pests are. So

00:59:30.340 --> 00:59:33.159
they have to have really clean plants. And so

00:59:33.159 --> 00:59:36.380
the inspector inspects them all. And on the phytosanitary

00:59:36.380 --> 00:59:39.420
certificate, he had claimed there was like, I

00:59:39.420 --> 00:59:41.079
don't know exact number, it was around 1 ,400

00:59:41.079 --> 00:59:44.539
plants. Well, we would later learn after counting

00:59:44.539 --> 00:59:46.260
it was actually three thousand seven hundred

00:59:46.260 --> 00:59:48.719
fifteen Okay, that so he was only claiming about

00:59:48.719 --> 00:59:50.820
sixty percent of what he was taken and that's

00:59:50.820 --> 00:59:53.019
important because later we'd look at other phytosanitary

00:59:53.019 --> 00:59:55.400
certificates that he filled out So anyway, so

00:59:55.400 --> 00:59:57.300
he fills out this certificate we get it all on

00:59:57.300 --> 01:00:00.559
video and his lies got him from San Diego And

01:00:00.559 --> 01:00:03.099
you know so forth so the county officer blesses

01:00:03.099 --> 01:00:04.840
them because that was what he would normally

01:00:04.840 --> 01:00:06.900
do and during this inspection Byung -soo Kim

01:00:06.900 --> 01:00:10.039
is there Yeah, yeah, exactly. So he can answer

01:00:10.039 --> 01:00:13.599
questions from your guy who's posing as an agriculture

01:00:13.599 --> 01:00:15.239
inspector. To our guys there talking to him,

01:00:15.260 --> 01:00:17.519
seeing what's going on. Oh, it's fantastic. It

01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:19.579
was beautiful. I love it. Again, at this point,

01:00:19.760 --> 01:00:21.659
we're beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm like, come

01:00:21.659 --> 01:00:24.380
on, bring it on. The case is made. Yeah, so this

01:00:24.380 --> 01:00:27.760
is beautiful. This is great. So I also would

01:00:27.760 --> 01:00:30.559
talk to the county inspector and find out that

01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:32.900
he has been getting biosanitary certificates

01:00:32.900 --> 01:00:37.889
since 2013. And I'm like, oh, OK. And eventually

01:00:37.889 --> 01:00:40.230
I'd get a, I don't know if I got a warrant, just

01:00:40.230 --> 01:00:42.250
a cooperation. I don't want to get too far ahead,

01:00:42.250 --> 01:00:43.909
but I would inspect those and get some really

01:00:43.909 --> 01:00:46.309
interesting information. Yeah. So Byung -Soo

01:00:46.309 --> 01:00:50.469
Kim's been doing this for years, since 2013 and

01:00:50.469 --> 01:00:54.030
we're at 2019 now, right? Yeah, exactly. 2018,

01:00:54.289 --> 01:00:57.710
2018. So anyways, we finished the whole county

01:00:57.710 --> 01:01:00.090
thing and they load them all into boxes. There

01:01:00.090 --> 01:01:02.949
was 37 boxes to get them all in the rental vehicle

01:01:02.949 --> 01:01:05.489
and two rental vehicles. They ended up doing

01:01:05.489 --> 01:01:08.110
another rental vehicle. and they end up driving

01:01:08.110 --> 01:01:11.710
to Max Cargo Inc. On the first inspection that

01:01:11.710 --> 01:01:13.730
ended up being a failure, they end up taking

01:01:13.730 --> 01:01:16.090
these plants there. This is the place that on

01:01:16.090 --> 01:01:17.989
your very first surveillance when you had the

01:01:17.989 --> 01:01:21.889
light team, the woman he met with went to this

01:01:21.889 --> 01:01:24.650
Max Cargo in Compton. Yes, exactly. So I'm like,

01:01:25.150 --> 01:01:27.969
okay, here we are, and that must be his connection,

01:01:28.090 --> 01:01:29.730
you know? And sure enough, it would be. That's

01:01:29.730 --> 01:01:32.670
his export connection. Exactly. Nice. So we end

01:01:32.670 --> 01:01:34.610
up, okay, now the time is when are we going to

01:01:34.610 --> 01:01:36.519
jam them? When are we going to do it? But we

01:01:36.519 --> 01:01:38.719
wanted to get, I had written what they call an

01:01:38.719 --> 01:01:41.840
anticipatory warrant. So it means that if these

01:01:41.840 --> 01:01:44.380
things are met, because I had an idea it was

01:01:44.380 --> 01:01:45.960
going to get shipped because I knew that they

01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:48.159
had gone to this international shipping company.

01:01:48.280 --> 01:01:51.969
So I said, if they go there. and drop off these

01:01:51.969 --> 01:01:54.610
plants, I want to be able to search the plants

01:01:54.610 --> 01:01:56.650
and so forth. So I set up the center store. Triggers

01:01:56.650 --> 01:01:58.349
the warrant when that happens. So I had a ton

01:01:58.349 --> 01:02:00.289
of plans. I had a search warrant for that, arrest

01:02:00.289 --> 01:02:03.550
warrants for all three suspects, search warrant

01:02:03.550 --> 01:02:05.829
for the car, search warrant for the nursery.

01:02:05.969 --> 01:02:08.429
So all this was done ahead of time. And I was

01:02:08.429 --> 01:02:11.409
like, okay, we're ready. But now when do we do

01:02:11.409 --> 01:02:14.090
it? So I said, okay, let's wait till he gets

01:02:14.090 --> 01:02:16.860
to the actual... you know we need them to deliver

01:02:16.860 --> 01:02:19.539
the plant so we can activate that part. So sure

01:02:19.539 --> 01:02:21.480
enough he backs up offloads all the plants in

01:02:21.480 --> 01:02:23.820
a beautiful little sack and we're videoing all

01:02:23.820 --> 01:02:27.960
this and then we had uniforms officers on standby

01:02:27.960 --> 01:02:30.360
because they do a lot of the help with the transportation

01:02:30.360 --> 01:02:33.320
and things like that and we all move in all at

01:02:33.320 --> 01:02:36.699
once. So did you let him drop off and leave and

01:02:36.699 --> 01:02:38.679
then pull him over? No no you just hit him right

01:02:38.679 --> 01:02:40.400
when he dropped him off because we wanted him

01:02:40.400 --> 01:02:42.780
there when because it's wonderful to open up

01:02:42.780 --> 01:02:45.840
the box. This is what I'm talking about right

01:02:45.840 --> 01:02:47.900
in front of them. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's kind

01:02:47.900 --> 01:02:51.019
of like Oh, that is such a such a rewarding that

01:02:51.019 --> 01:02:53.619
the takedown is always so rewarding man when

01:02:53.619 --> 01:02:55.679
you especially when you see those uniforms coming

01:02:55.679 --> 01:02:58.000
in and you're like This is this dude is done.

01:02:58.559 --> 01:03:05.480
Yeah We like the dramatics the officers come

01:03:05.480 --> 01:03:07.139
in and we don't just bring it it was several

01:03:07.139 --> 01:03:10.719
after Coming in and then we walk in with her,

01:03:10.820 --> 01:03:13.079
you know playing clothes and we were there with

01:03:12.969 --> 01:03:15.570
Fish and Wildlife Service agent. So at that time,

01:03:15.570 --> 01:03:19.090
Agent Laura Chi had joined us as well. So she

01:03:19.090 --> 01:03:21.070
was there. She was going to help with the interviews

01:03:21.070 --> 01:03:24.170
and also with the search warrants. So of course,

01:03:24.250 --> 01:03:25.869
we open the boxes and we already know what's

01:03:25.869 --> 01:03:28.690
going to be in them. And they're labeled live

01:03:28.690 --> 01:03:31.510
plants, you know, and so we get that all on video.

01:03:31.869 --> 01:03:34.090
This is the beauty of his plan. He's smuggling

01:03:34.090 --> 01:03:36.489
in plain sight. That's the beauty of his plan.

01:03:36.840 --> 01:03:39.500
Out of all of them, this was our smartest one.

01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:45.059
He was well organized. We found out he had been

01:03:45.059 --> 01:03:47.900
doing this since 2013. I mean, this guy, he is

01:03:47.900 --> 01:03:50.000
a hardcore trafficker. Oh, yeah. Completely.

01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:51.780
There's no question about it. Completely. Like

01:03:51.780 --> 01:03:54.760
I said, we would add up. those plants, and there

01:03:54.760 --> 01:03:59.000
would be 3 ,715 just in this load. So we would

01:03:59.000 --> 01:04:02.059
also go and inspect, well we got a search warrant

01:04:02.059 --> 01:04:04.840
on his cell phone too, I got that. I would find

01:04:04.840 --> 01:04:07.920
photographs of him in other countries, I believe

01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:11.539
poaching plants, including Mexico. Oh, this is

01:04:11.539 --> 01:04:14.619
funny, I have to mention this. I would also find

01:04:14.619 --> 01:04:18.380
a news article of one of my prior Dudley cases.

01:04:18.599 --> 01:04:21.280
Where I had busted them and it says that they

01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:24.559
were convicted of felonies, $10 ,000 fines. So

01:04:24.559 --> 01:04:28.400
he went there knowing all this information, right?

01:04:29.059 --> 01:04:31.360
So I'm like, okay. I mean, that was beautiful

01:04:31.360 --> 01:04:33.519
being able to show that, you know, I mean, that

01:04:33.519 --> 01:04:36.639
gives you, you've got that shows knowledge, knowledge

01:04:36.639 --> 01:04:39.820
of the law. Then you've got this, this, uh, you

01:04:39.820 --> 01:04:41.820
know, when you did your surveillance, he's leaving

01:04:41.820 --> 01:04:43.539
the backpack till he gets to the parking lot.

01:04:43.579 --> 01:04:45.300
Then he's motioning people to bring it in after

01:04:45.300 --> 01:04:47.989
he checks to me. So there's intent. Right. So

01:04:47.989 --> 01:04:49.909
you know, he's got knowledge of the law and he's

01:04:49.909 --> 01:04:51.710
intentionally violating it. Boy, that's a total

01:04:51.710 --> 01:04:53.909
disregard of the law. Right. Because he knows.

01:04:54.389 --> 01:04:58.489
And the thing is, $10 ,000 fine. Each suspect

01:04:58.489 --> 01:05:01.510
got that. We had seized $10 ,200 from him. We

01:05:01.510 --> 01:05:03.829
got to keep that. They got kicked out of the

01:05:03.829 --> 01:05:06.309
country forever, you know. So all these things

01:05:06.309 --> 01:05:09.150
happened to the prior suspects. He was still

01:05:09.150 --> 01:05:11.809
willing to come. That means that that's just

01:05:11.809 --> 01:05:14.469
the price of doing business. It was still worth

01:05:14.469 --> 01:05:17.110
the risk. to come here, which tells me they're

01:05:17.110 --> 01:05:19.329
getting a pretty darn good reward, right? Which

01:05:19.329 --> 01:05:22.230
brings me to everybody's going to want to know

01:05:22.230 --> 01:05:24.690
this 3000 plants you stopped at that moment.

01:05:24.969 --> 01:05:26.889
What do you think just those are worth overseas?

01:05:26.949 --> 01:05:29.940
So actually new. It was over $600 ,000. I'm going

01:05:29.940 --> 01:05:31.880
to go, why the heck did I know? Well, how do

01:05:31.880 --> 01:05:34.579
you know? It was wonderful. One of my prior cases,

01:05:35.239 --> 01:05:38.679
the lady was wonderful enough to actually make

01:05:38.679 --> 01:05:42.519
a price list and it was based on the number of

01:05:42.519 --> 01:05:45.099
heads. So Dudley, when they start to mature,

01:05:45.099 --> 01:05:47.619
they'll branch out into these different heads.

01:05:47.639 --> 01:05:49.500
So they form this beautiful rosette, but they're

01:05:49.500 --> 01:05:51.199
these different stocks. I'm going to call them

01:05:51.199 --> 01:05:53.599
heads, but there's these stocks. And then there's

01:05:53.599 --> 01:05:56.500
a beautiful rosette head on each of them. So

01:05:56.500 --> 01:06:01.420
if it was one head, it would be worth $100. But

01:06:01.420 --> 01:06:03.559
I also, and I didn't just use her price list,

01:06:03.599 --> 01:06:05.579
but I had her price list and she was selling

01:06:05.579 --> 01:06:09.500
them, this lady was, and she had all this. We

01:06:09.500 --> 01:06:10.900
found them on the internet, but we also found

01:06:10.900 --> 01:06:14.239
a Korean website. And they were also selling

01:06:14.239 --> 01:06:16.739
Dudlia Farinosa, the Dudlia that we were finding

01:06:16.739 --> 01:06:19.519
on our coast. And so I was able to use those

01:06:19.519 --> 01:06:22.159
numbers too, to actually come up with an exact

01:06:22.159 --> 01:06:24.360
number. And I don't remember it was 602 something.

01:06:24.420 --> 01:06:28.619
I don't remember exactly, but $602 ,000 this

01:06:28.619 --> 01:06:31.400
load. That's incredible. Based on head. So unfortunately

01:06:31.400 --> 01:06:33.920
someone had to count. How many heads? How many

01:06:33.920 --> 01:06:36.119
had one head? How many had two heads? Cause each

01:06:36.119 --> 01:06:38.300
was a different price. If it was a five head,

01:06:38.570 --> 01:06:42.269
it was worth upward of $2 ,500. So I'm like,

01:06:42.429 --> 01:06:44.309
okay, we need to sort these, we need to create

01:06:44.309 --> 01:06:46.190
this chart and come up with this price because

01:06:46.190 --> 01:06:48.150
I want to be able to tell the judge. You're already

01:06:48.150 --> 01:06:50.190
thinking ahead to sentencing. Yeah, that's good.

01:06:50.190 --> 01:06:52.650
What the heck is that? So we did those search

01:06:52.650 --> 01:06:55.670
warrants on that. We did the search warrant at

01:06:55.670 --> 01:06:58.369
the nursery, found the backpacks, found the radios.

01:06:58.750 --> 01:07:01.050
Um, but they had stashed a lot of stuff there

01:07:01.050 --> 01:07:02.829
and it made us believe that they were, you know,

01:07:02.929 --> 01:07:04.429
this was a base of operation. They're coming

01:07:04.429 --> 01:07:07.070
back, you know? Well, luckily they weren't going

01:07:07.070 --> 01:07:09.590
to cause we're going to know. But the plan was

01:07:09.590 --> 01:07:11.909
they're coming back. When I got the Ramia warrant,

01:07:12.389 --> 01:07:14.690
I looked at the judge. I said, yeah, you know,

01:07:15.110 --> 01:07:17.489
I think they're, you know, they're, oh, we had

01:07:17.489 --> 01:07:19.429
found out that they did have a flight booked.

01:07:19.690 --> 01:07:21.630
that your agent or Fish and Wildlife Service

01:07:21.630 --> 01:07:23.929
agent had determined they were going to fly out

01:07:23.929 --> 01:07:25.949
that night. Wow, you just caught him. You just

01:07:25.949 --> 01:07:27.550
caught him. So that was another reason why. And

01:07:27.550 --> 01:07:29.170
I had told the judge, you know, they have this

01:07:29.170 --> 01:07:30.949
flight when he signed the Ramey warrant, you

01:07:30.949 --> 01:07:32.449
know, to leave tonight. He's all they're not

01:07:32.449 --> 01:07:34.530
leaving tonight. And he laughs and I'm like,

01:07:34.730 --> 01:07:37.309
yeah, they're not nice. So we end up interviewing

01:07:37.309 --> 01:07:40.869
them at that facility. And they were very cooperative.

01:07:41.010 --> 01:07:42.769
I don't think the management actually knew. I

01:07:42.769 --> 01:07:45.369
mean, by now, they're legitimate. Bidosanitary

01:07:45.369 --> 01:07:47.429
certificates. Yeah, the export companies just

01:07:47.429 --> 01:07:49.690
like a stooge really they don't exactly so they

01:07:49.690 --> 01:07:51.610
don't know they were very cooperative. They let

01:07:51.610 --> 01:07:54.210
us even use their conference room where we interviewed.

01:07:54.210 --> 01:07:56.590
So he's under arrest, you've Mirandized him and

01:07:56.590 --> 01:07:59.429
he agrees to talk. Yeah. Okay. And he confesses

01:07:59.429 --> 01:08:01.650
everything. Really? They all do. Okay. But what

01:08:01.650 --> 01:08:03.510
we learned you hook up at that moment at the

01:08:03.510 --> 01:08:05.469
Compton Place, Byungsu Kim and who anybody else?

01:08:05.929 --> 01:08:08.840
All three. So they were all three there, Byung

01:08:08.840 --> 01:08:10.699
-Soo Kim, Young -In -Bak, and Bong -Joon Kim.

01:08:10.719 --> 01:08:13.219
Nice. Yeah, all three were in the same place.

01:08:13.440 --> 01:08:16.460
So it was really easy. We were just having, and

01:08:16.460 --> 01:08:18.279
we had the uniforms, so we'd be like, okay, you

01:08:18.279 --> 01:08:21.079
guys wait here while we go interview suspect

01:08:21.079 --> 01:08:24.279
one. It was myself and Agent Chi. And Agent Chi

01:08:24.279 --> 01:08:25.579
with Fish and Wildlife Service, she actually

01:08:25.579 --> 01:08:27.039
said, you know, I'll take the lead on the interview.

01:08:27.300 --> 01:08:28.840
She said, sure, why not? You know, and I'll sit

01:08:28.840 --> 01:08:30.840
there and throw in any questions that I needed.

01:08:31.260 --> 01:08:35.060
And she got him to confess everything. And we

01:08:35.060 --> 01:08:40.159
found out from young and back, he said, you know,

01:08:40.640 --> 01:08:43.460
I'm, I'm working, I'm an employee for Byungsuk

01:08:43.460 --> 01:08:45.600
Kim. Okay. Um, so we found that out, but him

01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:48.039
and Byungsuk Kim really knew each other for a

01:08:48.039 --> 01:08:50.500
while. Um, Bong Ju Kim also admitted, Hey, I

01:08:50.500 --> 01:08:52.659
didn't even really know these two. I met him

01:08:52.659 --> 01:08:55.039
on a previous flight. I was looking for a job.

01:08:55.100 --> 01:08:57.600
I had mentioned this. He took my name. All of

01:08:57.600 --> 01:08:59.720
a sudden I get a call when I'm in South Korea

01:08:59.720 --> 01:09:01.560
from this guy saying you want to come to America.

01:09:01.960 --> 01:09:04.380
I'll pay you, I think it was, I'll pay for everything

01:09:04.380 --> 01:09:06.500
when you're there, your flight, your hotel, everything.

01:09:06.500 --> 01:09:09.060
You won't have any expenses. I'll give you $1

01:09:09.060 --> 01:09:10.699
,700 is what they told me. told them for this

01:09:10.699 --> 01:09:13.369
amount of time that he was there. So but they

01:09:13.369 --> 01:09:16.810
eventually admit to knowing it was illegal. Nice.

01:09:16.989 --> 01:09:19.229
Which is nice. Those statements are nice. I'm

01:09:19.229 --> 01:09:22.989
using radios and so forth. So it was beautiful.

01:09:23.229 --> 01:09:26.630
We're like, this is wonderful. So we end up booking

01:09:26.630 --> 01:09:28.949
them. You book them in in L .A., but your charges

01:09:28.949 --> 01:09:31.529
are going to be out of Crescent City. So that

01:09:31.529 --> 01:09:33.850
in itself was a challenge. Yeah. How the heck

01:09:33.850 --> 01:09:36.529
am I going to get three guys from point A to

01:09:36.529 --> 01:09:37.989
point B because nobody else is going to do it

01:09:37.989 --> 01:09:39.609
for you? You know, they've got their own. Did

01:09:39.609 --> 01:09:42.800
you transport them up there? So. I arranged,

01:09:42.960 --> 01:09:45.239
believe it or not, I arranged it for, I think

01:09:45.239 --> 01:09:48.159
it's LA officers. They were going to Stockton.

01:09:48.300 --> 01:09:50.319
I said, okay, can you take them to the Stockton

01:09:50.319 --> 01:09:53.420
jail? Yes. Okay. Stockton, can they stay overnight?

01:09:53.960 --> 01:09:57.220
Yes. Okay. Then they were going to Sacramento's,

01:09:57.220 --> 01:10:01.460
a hub for prisoner exchange hub. So I said, can

01:10:01.460 --> 01:10:03.859
you take them to Sacramento? then they were drove

01:10:03.859 --> 01:10:05.859
driven to Sacramento because we couldn't do it

01:10:05.859 --> 01:10:08.340
because we're not really trained to transport

01:10:08.340 --> 01:10:11.520
long -distance yeah because you got a feed house

01:10:11.520 --> 01:10:13.539
we just that was a little complicated we didn't

01:10:13.539 --> 01:10:16.300
know what the rules of the games were so they

01:10:16.300 --> 01:10:18.359
stayed the night I had it so I'm talking to LA

01:10:18.359 --> 01:10:20.239
go to stockton arrange for them to keep them

01:10:20.239 --> 01:10:22.859
overnight then I get somebody to take them to

01:10:22.859 --> 01:10:25.939
Sacramento then I convinced Eureka hey they said

01:10:25.939 --> 01:10:27.939
we're gonna go pick up somebody anyways we'll

01:10:27.939 --> 01:10:30.180
pick up your guys and we'll take them to Eureka

01:10:30.180 --> 01:10:33.729
like Eureka sheriff's office or or fish and wildlife.

01:10:33.810 --> 01:10:36.550
It was either the sheriff or the police department.

01:10:36.649 --> 01:10:38.329
I don't remember which one, but it's not us.

01:10:38.470 --> 01:10:40.869
I'll tell you what, man, the best people are

01:10:40.869 --> 01:10:42.850
getting linked up with for prisoner transport

01:10:42.850 --> 01:10:45.229
or sheriff's department. It probably was them.

01:10:45.229 --> 01:10:47.989
Yeah, exactly. Or US marshals, one or the other.

01:10:48.140 --> 01:10:51.359
So they end up taking them to Eureka, which is

01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:53.220
like about an hour from Creston City, but I still

01:10:53.220 --> 01:10:54.819
need to get them to Creston City, but Creston

01:10:54.819 --> 01:10:56.659
City then agreed, you get them to Eureka some

01:10:56.659 --> 01:11:00.319
miraculous way, we'll go down to Eureka and pick

01:11:00.319 --> 01:11:02.680
them up. And that's what happened. So that in

01:11:02.680 --> 01:11:05.619
itself was an adventure, but it happened. And

01:11:05.619 --> 01:11:08.319
then so we ended up starting with the court process,

01:11:08.659 --> 01:11:13.550
which... as you know, can take a long time. And

01:11:13.550 --> 01:11:15.630
so I don't want to get in too much detail on

01:11:15.630 --> 01:11:18.010
that, but we'll skip ahead to the juicy part

01:11:18.010 --> 01:11:20.149
that happened. So basically what happens after

01:11:20.149 --> 01:11:21.829
somebody is arrested, of course, they have an

01:11:21.829 --> 01:11:24.069
opportunity to appear in front of a judge. They're

01:11:24.069 --> 01:11:27.890
going to enter a plea and they'll figure out

01:11:27.890 --> 01:11:29.930
whether they hire private counsel or they get

01:11:29.930 --> 01:11:32.109
public defenders, whatever, depending on their

01:11:32.109 --> 01:11:35.600
resources. But then then the court. process starts.

01:11:35.760 --> 01:11:37.520
And one of the first things that a judge is going

01:11:37.520 --> 01:11:39.819
to consider, of course, every defendant is going

01:11:39.819 --> 01:11:43.800
to ask for bail or to be let out pending future.

01:11:44.439 --> 01:11:47.020
And to me, I think it's insane that any judge

01:11:47.020 --> 01:11:51.140
would ever let a foreign national out. But it

01:11:51.140 --> 01:11:53.079
happens in both the federal and state system

01:11:53.079 --> 01:11:55.699
that foreign nationals do get bail. And in this

01:11:55.699 --> 01:11:58.260
case, these guys asked for bail. And did they

01:11:58.260 --> 01:12:00.859
all three get bail? And you know what? I even

01:12:00.859 --> 01:12:03.880
begged. I was there in court and the district

01:12:03.880 --> 01:12:05.500
attorney said do you want to talk and try and

01:12:05.500 --> 01:12:07.520
convince him I said absolutely yeah, and I said

01:12:07.520 --> 01:12:11.420
these guys have been doing it they know and Oh,

01:12:11.420 --> 01:12:13.340
and one thing that I hadn't mentioned so the

01:12:13.340 --> 01:12:15.600
money's huge so the flight risk is even gets

01:12:15.600 --> 01:12:17.560
huger Yeah, so remember I said that they have

01:12:17.560 --> 01:12:19.819
these phytosanitary certificates So I went back

01:12:19.819 --> 01:12:22.159
and I looked and they had been coming since 2013

01:12:22.159 --> 01:12:26.760
since 2013 between 2013 and 2018 Byung -soo Kim

01:12:26.760 --> 01:12:31.449
claimed to have taken over 120 ,000 plants. What?

01:12:31.729 --> 01:12:34.890
On paper. Whoa. So I knew he had taken, remember

01:12:34.890 --> 01:12:38.050
we're just talking 3 ,715 on this one, but he

01:12:38.050 --> 01:12:41.029
has taken over this time period over 120 ,000.

01:12:41.250 --> 01:12:43.529
But didn't he, on his, on his permits, wasn't

01:12:43.529 --> 01:12:46.140
he claiming a lot less than 3 ,000? he was only

01:12:46.140 --> 01:12:48.060
claiming about 60 percent so that's probably

01:12:48.060 --> 01:12:51.300
what 170 and this is a lot so if you assume he

01:12:51.300 --> 01:12:54.079
did that every time but what's on paper is how

01:12:54.079 --> 01:12:58.539
many 120 over 112 it was like 122 something 122

01:12:58.539 --> 01:13:01.680
000 so if we assume that's 60 70 percent of the

01:13:01.680 --> 01:13:04.220
reality yeah oh my gosh so i'm telling the judges

01:13:04.220 --> 01:13:06.460
this guy's been doing this forever please don't

01:13:06.460 --> 01:13:08.779
let him out on bail but sure enough yeah and

01:13:08.779 --> 01:13:10.439
you know you know what happens a lot with the

01:13:10.439 --> 01:13:12.859
judges in the federal system as well They'll

01:13:12.859 --> 01:13:14.420
have the foreign national, and they'll say, ah,

01:13:14.439 --> 01:13:16.260
we'll let you out on bail, but maybe you have

01:13:16.260 --> 01:13:21.159
to pay a bail. And you have to give up your passport.

01:13:21.859 --> 01:13:26.159
That is a bunch of crap, OK? Because I don't

01:13:26.159 --> 01:13:29.039
know why judges don't know this, but if you're

01:13:29.039 --> 01:13:31.199
an American and you're traveling overseas and

01:13:31.199 --> 01:13:33.699
you lose your passport or somebody steals it,

01:13:34.060 --> 01:13:37.020
you just go to the local American embassy, they'll

01:13:37.020 --> 01:13:40.210
give you a new one. Yeah. And in Los Angeles

01:13:40.210 --> 01:13:44.229
or San Francisco, big cities, South Korea has

01:13:44.229 --> 01:13:47.890
a consulate. Yep. And it takes nothing for somebody

01:13:47.890 --> 01:13:50.630
to go get a replacement passport. So turning

01:13:50.630 --> 01:13:53.949
in your passport as a condition of release means

01:13:53.949 --> 01:13:56.630
nothing. Well, and we had ceased their passports.

01:13:56.750 --> 01:13:59.250
Oh, you did. But who cares, right? They don't

01:13:59.250 --> 01:14:02.329
care. And I thought, well, I got the passport.

01:14:02.449 --> 01:14:04.170
And the judge probably was like, well, we have

01:14:04.170 --> 01:14:06.149
the passports and you're going to pay the bail.

01:14:07.190 --> 01:14:09.930
And we're talking about 600 ,000 in one shipment.

01:14:10.109 --> 01:14:12.770
Bail was how much? Do you remember? I don't.

01:14:12.789 --> 01:14:15.310
I don't. They did have a bail bond guy, but yeah.

01:14:15.569 --> 01:14:17.489
They're willing to skip that bail. They don't

01:14:17.489 --> 01:14:20.989
care. They were willing and they did. Oh yeah.

01:14:21.329 --> 01:14:23.369
Yeah. These guys had a lot of money. So, okay.

01:14:23.510 --> 01:14:25.489
So they get out on bail on the state charges

01:14:25.489 --> 01:14:27.789
and this is where it gets a little weird. Do

01:14:27.789 --> 01:14:29.670
you mind if I tell the federal side? Yes. Because

01:14:29.670 --> 01:14:34.390
I don't really know it. So. Because these guys

01:14:34.390 --> 01:14:38.130
were once they turned the the plants over to

01:14:38.130 --> 01:14:41.630
the Exporter they had placed it into international

01:14:41.630 --> 01:14:44.609
commerce So that part was done and what happened

01:14:44.609 --> 01:14:46.989
was that triggers what's called the Lacey act?

01:14:47.149 --> 01:14:50.810
Which is a federal law and if you export wildlife

01:14:50.810 --> 01:14:54.270
or plants If you if you move them in interstate

01:14:54.270 --> 01:14:59.819
commerce or try to export them Plants taken in

01:14:59.819 --> 01:15:02.159
violation of state law. You are now committing

01:15:02.159 --> 01:15:04.760
a federal offense under the Lacey Act and their

01:15:04.760 --> 01:15:07.699
whole That triggers that whole thing of it's

01:15:07.699 --> 01:15:09.680
now leaving California's jurisdiction. It's hard

01:15:09.680 --> 01:15:12.560
for California to enforce So it becomes a federal

01:15:12.560 --> 01:15:15.140
offense so the feds can get involved anyway,

01:15:15.140 --> 01:15:18.359
so When they turn those plants over to that Compton

01:15:18.359 --> 01:15:21.479
export or whatever. What's it called mega? Max

01:15:21.479 --> 01:15:24.859
cargo once they turn it over to that max cargo

01:15:24.859 --> 01:15:28.199
in Compton they've They've committed it to international

01:15:28.199 --> 01:15:30.659
commerce. So they've committed that Lacey act

01:15:30.659 --> 01:15:33.399
violation. And so what what the feds did, and

01:15:33.399 --> 01:15:37.000
I don't really understand. I think if my recollection

01:15:37.000 --> 01:15:40.100
is correct, I was at the time, although I spent

01:15:40.100 --> 01:15:42.060
most of my career in Los Angeles at the time,

01:15:42.060 --> 01:15:44.439
I was based in Africa on a five year assignment

01:15:44.439 --> 01:15:48.000
to be an agent over in Africa. I was in South

01:15:48.000 --> 01:15:50.520
Africa and jealous. I know it was pretty hard

01:15:50.520 --> 01:15:52.539
work. Let me tell you, it was hard work actually,

01:15:52.539 --> 01:15:59.600
but it was pretty cool anyway. So what I recollect

01:15:59.600 --> 01:16:02.859
from talking to the supervisor here in LA is

01:16:02.859 --> 01:16:07.659
that We started to get concerned the Fed started

01:16:07.659 --> 01:16:10.100
to get concerned that Young Soo Kim and his crew

01:16:10.100 --> 01:16:15.039
were going to jump bail and so We went ahead

01:16:15.039 --> 01:16:18.539
and filed our charges and that was in I believe

01:16:18.539 --> 01:16:22.819
December of 2018 Okay. Yeah, it's toward the

01:16:22.819 --> 01:16:24.920
end of the year. Yeah, so we were getting worried

01:16:24.920 --> 01:16:30.090
they were gonna run And so we filed. And then

01:16:30.090 --> 01:16:32.189
we got an arrest warrant for them as well, too.

01:16:32.250 --> 01:16:34.670
So they ended up getting arrested by the feds

01:16:34.670 --> 01:16:38.090
as well. And they got bail from the feds. Oh,

01:16:38.189 --> 01:16:41.510
I didn't know that. Yeah. Holy cow. Twice. Yeah.

01:16:41.869 --> 01:16:45.369
I think I think that's what happened. I will

01:16:45.369 --> 01:16:47.210
double check that and make sure that that's updated

01:16:47.210 --> 01:16:48.689
on our website. But I think they got arrested

01:16:48.689 --> 01:16:49.970
by the feds. But I do remember you guys were

01:16:49.970 --> 01:16:51.909
going to arrest them. And I remember, yeah. I

01:16:51.909 --> 01:16:54.289
know there is an arrest warrant in the court

01:16:54.289 --> 01:16:56.729
records for these guys. And there was a complaint

01:16:56.729 --> 01:16:58.569
issued. I don't know if we actually hooked them

01:16:58.569 --> 01:17:01.590
up or they fled before. But now we're going to

01:17:01.590 --> 01:17:05.329
jump to these guys flee, right? What they did

01:17:05.329 --> 01:17:09.010
is exactly what you would do. Of course. They

01:17:09.010 --> 01:17:10.890
went to the South Korean consulate and they said

01:17:10.890 --> 01:17:13.229
their passports were stolen in Santa Monica.

01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:15.859
Yeah, and they got new passports and then they

01:17:15.859 --> 01:17:17.739
immediately went to Mexico. So I don't know if

01:17:17.739 --> 01:17:19.319
I told you this because they would end up going

01:17:19.319 --> 01:17:22.079
I think you guys told us Mexico then China and

01:17:22.079 --> 01:17:27.079
then South Korea so um I would call Customs and

01:17:27.079 --> 01:17:28.920
Border Patrol and say, hey, can you stop them?

01:17:28.939 --> 01:17:31.159
I'm naive. Like you said, you guys know how to

01:17:31.159 --> 01:17:33.000
deal with this. I don't. Can you stop them there

01:17:33.000 --> 01:17:35.479
and tell them we want them back? I'm so naive,

01:17:35.619 --> 01:17:37.399
right? Stop them in like China or South Korea

01:17:37.399 --> 01:17:40.680
or whatever? Yeah, we talked to them. We said,

01:17:40.800 --> 01:17:42.140
hello, but they don't want to come back. And

01:17:42.140 --> 01:17:43.779
that was that. You know, I was so naive because

01:17:43.779 --> 01:17:45.359
I'm like, well, it all worked out very pretty

01:17:45.359 --> 01:17:48.800
when you guys did it, you know? So, yeah, that

01:17:48.800 --> 01:17:51.720
wasn't very successful. So here they are. Actually,

01:17:51.840 --> 01:17:54.979
two of them fled. The other one you guys ended

01:17:54.979 --> 01:17:57.579
up arresting, Bong Ju Kim, I remember you guys

01:17:57.579 --> 01:17:59.300
did get, and ended up prosecuting. Maybe that's

01:17:59.300 --> 01:18:02.100
what it was, is that I think we had the arrest

01:18:02.100 --> 01:18:05.199
warrant for Byung Soo Kim and the other one,

01:18:05.279 --> 01:18:07.420
one of the other ones, and they fled before we

01:18:07.420 --> 01:18:09.699
could get them. Yeah, they got into Mexico, but

01:18:09.699 --> 01:18:12.239
you got nailed the other one. Okay, that's what

01:18:12.239 --> 01:18:14.680
it was. We never actually took, okay, so we never

01:18:14.680 --> 01:18:16.880
took Byung Soo Kim and the other one into custody.

01:18:17.699 --> 01:18:19.479
Exactly. They fled before we could get them.

01:18:19.579 --> 01:18:21.380
That's what happened, but we had charged them.

01:18:21.820 --> 01:18:23.760
That's what it was. So they didn't get federal

01:18:23.760 --> 01:18:26.659
bail. They got state bail. Yeah, fled on that.

01:18:26.699 --> 01:18:28.520
And then we did manage to grab that other guy

01:18:28.520 --> 01:18:30.399
before he got out. That's that's what happened.

01:18:30.420 --> 01:18:36.739
So now I'm crying. Oh, my gosh. Now what? The

01:18:36.739 --> 01:18:39.539
hours that the man it was just it was it was

01:18:39.539 --> 01:18:43.390
dreadful. Yeah, it was dreadful. Once. Young

01:18:43.390 --> 01:18:45.930
Soo Kim fled along with what was the young in

01:18:45.930 --> 01:18:48.970
back young in back also fled So what happened

01:18:48.970 --> 01:18:51.529
is when they fled we had charged them federally

01:18:51.529 --> 01:18:54.829
you had so now they have Warrants out for their

01:18:54.829 --> 01:18:57.189
arrest from the state of California because now

01:18:57.189 --> 01:18:59.869
they've jumped bail. Yep, and we have a federal

01:18:59.869 --> 01:19:01.810
warrant for their arrest So they know this they

01:19:01.810 --> 01:19:03.289
know they've jumped bail. They're not coming

01:19:03.289 --> 01:19:07.149
back to the US so what happened is I happen to

01:19:07.149 --> 01:19:10.989
be in South Africa at the time and Agent Aaron

01:19:10.989 --> 01:19:12.869
Dean, who was the supervisor here in Southern

01:19:12.869 --> 01:19:15.510
California, she remembered, or I think when they

01:19:15.510 --> 01:19:18.869
arrested, so the young - Bong Ju Kim. Bong Ju

01:19:18.869 --> 01:19:21.069
Kim, when they arrested Bong Ju Kim here in LA,

01:19:22.029 --> 01:19:26.829
they found in his personal belongings a receipt

01:19:26.829 --> 01:19:30.069
from a nursery, a plant nursery in Cape Town.

01:19:31.130 --> 01:19:33.569
That's the only document that they saw in his

01:19:33.569 --> 01:19:35.890
records related to any other place in the world.

01:19:36.350 --> 01:19:38.470
And she knew I was there, so she called me one

01:19:38.470 --> 01:19:40.449
day, and I'm at the embassy, happened to be at

01:19:40.449 --> 01:19:42.869
the office, and she explains this case to me.

01:19:42.909 --> 01:19:44.729
It was the first time I'd heard about it. And

01:19:44.729 --> 01:19:46.649
I was like, wow, that's weird. And she says,

01:19:46.970 --> 01:19:49.689
do you know anything about this nursery? And

01:19:49.689 --> 01:19:51.130
I said, no, I never heard about it, but I can

01:19:51.130 --> 01:19:52.890
ask around. And I was like, what's the deal with

01:19:52.890 --> 01:19:56.430
this case? So she explains it, and I said, Erin,

01:19:57.250 --> 01:20:00.090
I said, these succulent plants, they really only

01:20:00.090 --> 01:20:03.250
grow three places in the world. California coast,

01:20:03.550 --> 01:20:06.619
Mexico, as you mentioned. and the Western Cape

01:20:06.619 --> 01:20:09.340
of South Africa. And I was like, these guys know

01:20:09.340 --> 01:20:11.880
they have warrants in the US. They're coming

01:20:11.880 --> 01:20:13.859
here. They're going to come to South Africa.

01:20:14.199 --> 01:20:15.960
And I was like, this is awesome. I said, send

01:20:15.960 --> 01:20:18.159
me everything you got. If you don't mind, send

01:20:18.159 --> 01:20:20.579
me everything you got. So she sent me everything

01:20:20.579 --> 01:20:23.500
on this case, the state charges, the reports

01:20:23.500 --> 01:20:26.060
from Agent Chi, I think some of your reports.

01:20:26.180 --> 01:20:28.640
I got everything. And what I did was, within

01:20:28.640 --> 01:20:32.600
about 24 hours, 48 hours maybe, I put together

01:20:32.600 --> 01:20:35.569
a briefing packet and I went. And I briefed the

01:20:35.569 --> 01:20:38.630
South African police and the Department of Environmental

01:20:38.630 --> 01:20:41.010
Affairs in South Africa. And I basically gave

01:20:41.010 --> 01:20:43.970
him an in -person briefing. This is what happened

01:20:43.970 --> 01:20:46.510
in the US. This is the situation. And I said,

01:20:46.529 --> 01:20:49.329
I think he's coming here. And I said, I would

01:20:49.329 --> 01:20:52.159
be on alert. Right? And that's it. And honestly,

01:20:52.420 --> 01:20:54.680
I left and I honestly didn't know. I kind of

01:20:54.680 --> 01:20:56.760
was like, I walked out in the parking lot and

01:20:56.760 --> 01:20:59.439
I'm like, I wonder if they'll do anything. I

01:20:59.439 --> 01:21:01.699
was like, I don't know. Out of your hands at

01:21:01.699 --> 01:21:03.279
that point. Yeah, I give them the information.

01:21:03.460 --> 01:21:04.819
It's their business whether they do anything

01:21:04.819 --> 01:21:07.840
with it. I knew them. I knew they were good officers.

01:21:08.279 --> 01:21:10.579
And South African police are pretty good about

01:21:10.579 --> 01:21:14.699
plant stuff. And I was like, well, maybe. Anyway,

01:21:14.960 --> 01:21:17.739
10 days later, I get a phone call at the embassy.

01:21:17.739 --> 01:21:20.859
This is crazy. 10 days later, I get a phone call

01:21:20.859 --> 01:21:22.939
from the South African police and they're like,

01:21:23.159 --> 01:21:25.439
yeah, we just hooked up your guy. I'm like, what?

01:21:25.960 --> 01:21:28.060
And he goes, yeah, we arrested Byung Soo Kim

01:21:28.060 --> 01:21:29.800
in Cape Town. And you're not going to believe

01:21:29.800 --> 01:21:32.579
this. We went back to his hotel room after we

01:21:32.579 --> 01:21:34.720
arrested him. He had a million dollars worth

01:21:34.720 --> 01:21:37.859
of succulent plants recently poached from the

01:21:37.859 --> 01:21:40.840
Cape. So he went immediately from the States.

01:21:40.899 --> 01:21:45.850
This is October. 2019. So he basically went,

01:21:46.329 --> 01:21:48.949
you know, he fled in the late fall of 2018. And

01:21:48.949 --> 01:21:53.130
by October 2019, he is back at it. He's not he's

01:21:53.130 --> 01:21:56.789
not even didn't miss a beat. Just changed his

01:21:56.789 --> 01:22:00.430
luck. Give the presentation and bam, you're magical.

01:22:00.569 --> 01:22:02.430
I know it's kind of like, wow, this is the way

01:22:02.430 --> 01:22:04.350
it's actually supposed to work. That's awesome.

01:22:04.850 --> 01:22:10.109
So he gets arrested in in Cape Town with a million

01:22:10.109 --> 01:22:12.050
dollars worth of these plants in his possession.

01:22:12.409 --> 01:22:15.949
and the same thing starts to unfold. He wants

01:22:15.949 --> 01:22:20.189
bail. The nice ending to this story with you

01:22:20.189 --> 01:22:24.050
today is that we got Kim back. We got Kim back

01:22:24.050 --> 01:22:28.409
to California. He was actually extradited back

01:22:28.409 --> 01:22:31.510
to the United States from South Africa. And he

01:22:31.510 --> 01:22:33.909
faced the music here in the US both from you

01:22:33.909 --> 01:22:36.449
and from both from the feds and and the state

01:22:36.449 --> 01:22:39.050
of California So and the reason I want to give

01:22:39.050 --> 01:22:41.449
that spoiler in this episode is I want to I'm

01:22:41.449 --> 01:22:44.430
gonna give you an opportunity to have the pleasure

01:22:44.430 --> 01:22:47.270
of telling us the penalties he got here in California

01:22:47.270 --> 01:22:49.670
because this poor guy went through the ringer.

01:22:49.670 --> 01:22:50.649
Not only the penalties. Remember I said this

01:22:50.649 --> 01:22:52.670
was the case of my career. This is the case of

01:22:52.670 --> 01:22:54.189
your career and I wanted to get to that. Magical

01:22:54.189 --> 01:22:56.750
things would happen. Yes. Yes. Big changes because

01:22:56.750 --> 01:22:59.710
of this case, right? So exactly. Yeah. So you

01:22:59.710 --> 01:23:01.729
guys ended up arresting him and they went through

01:23:01.729 --> 01:23:04.210
you guys and you guys got some great stuff and

01:23:04.210 --> 01:23:06.390
then we extradited him back to the US. Yeah.

01:23:06.390 --> 01:23:10.109
So we end up flying him from LA with our own

01:23:10.109 --> 01:23:12.090
jet. Yeah. Okay. So now we got to spoil a little

01:23:12.090 --> 01:23:14.409
more. Yeah. the feds get him back to the states

01:23:14.409 --> 01:23:17.649
and because he's extradited uh now he's got federal

01:23:17.649 --> 01:23:20.689
charges in state the fed goes first we charged

01:23:20.689 --> 01:23:22.710
him uh we tried him here in the states he pled

01:23:22.710 --> 01:23:25.729
guilty and he was sentenced to 24 months in prison

01:23:25.729 --> 01:23:29.369
federally here in southern california and because

01:23:29.369 --> 01:23:32.470
he was exporting out of here the federal judge

01:23:32.470 --> 01:23:34.670
all of a sudden so we thought okay he's going

01:23:34.670 --> 01:23:37.010
to get time served for the time he spent in jail

01:23:37.010 --> 01:23:39.609
after he arrived in the states after being extradited

01:23:40.140 --> 01:23:42.500
But the federal judge decided, no, I'm going

01:23:42.500 --> 01:23:44.939
to give him credit for time served in South Africa,

01:23:45.119 --> 01:23:48.119
which in my opinion, wrong legal decision because

01:23:48.119 --> 01:23:50.899
different crime. He had to do his time in South

01:23:50.899 --> 01:23:53.479
Africa for his South African crimes. Then he

01:23:53.479 --> 01:23:58.319
does anyway. So unexpectedly, he has spent he

01:23:58.319 --> 01:24:00.359
spent a good amount of time in federal custody

01:24:00.359 --> 01:24:02.140
here. I think it was, you know, eight, eight

01:24:02.140 --> 01:24:04.800
months or so. But all of a sudden he's released.

01:24:04.979 --> 01:24:08.159
Right. No, he's not. We got to turn him over

01:24:08.159 --> 01:24:10.920
to the state of California. Okay. So that's a

01:24:10.920 --> 01:24:12.899
funny story in and of itself, because the poor

01:24:12.899 --> 01:24:15.899
guy, the poor guy while he was in custody in

01:24:15.899 --> 01:24:19.340
the US, he got in he got crosswise with a gang

01:24:19.340 --> 01:24:22.779
member in his prison. And he got beat up bad.

01:24:23.119 --> 01:24:27.159
And he had his jaw wired shut. I mean, it's not

01:24:27.159 --> 01:24:30.180
Yeah, it's not funny because he it's horrible

01:24:30.180 --> 01:24:32.039
what happened to him. But he did get beaten up

01:24:32.039 --> 01:24:34.579
in prison in federal custody. And he had his

01:24:34.579 --> 01:24:37.090
jaw wired shut. while he was recovering. I'll

01:24:37.090 --> 01:24:39.069
tell you, his personality changed though. It

01:24:39.069 --> 01:24:41.710
did change. From when it was kind of cocky, I'm

01:24:41.710 --> 01:24:44.970
invincible, to a lot more humble when I saw him

01:24:44.970 --> 01:24:46.869
the next time, I'll tell you that. He had spent

01:24:46.869 --> 01:24:49.050
some time in some very hardcore prisons. South

01:24:49.050 --> 01:24:52.710
Africa was not easy for him, and the federal

01:24:52.710 --> 01:24:54.449
system, because he got beat up, was not good.

01:24:55.130 --> 01:24:57.250
But so anyway, all of a sudden, you have to make

01:24:57.250 --> 01:24:58.770
arrangements to take custody of him. How did

01:24:58.770 --> 01:25:00.550
that happen? What happened there? And I'm panicking.

01:25:01.830 --> 01:25:04.069
I think I called you and said, oh my God, he's

01:25:04.069 --> 01:25:05.930
going to be released. You got to get on. It was

01:25:05.930 --> 01:25:08.289
like, I was at a day. It was a short time and

01:25:08.289 --> 01:25:10.170
I'm like, oh my God, what do we do? What do we

01:25:10.170 --> 01:25:11.710
do? And so we're going over everything, right?

01:25:11.989 --> 01:25:14.250
I can't do the whole transfer them to these four

01:25:14.250 --> 01:25:15.989
different places. That's not going to fly it

01:25:15.989 --> 01:25:21.159
that quickly. Right. So we do have. I don't know

01:25:21.159 --> 01:25:22.460
what kind of jets they are, but they're pretty

01:25:22.460 --> 01:25:26.319
fancy that are for our director and hire folks.

01:25:26.819 --> 01:25:29.520
So we decide let's convince them to let us use

01:25:29.520 --> 01:25:31.979
this nice jet. And I wasn't sure if it was going

01:25:31.979 --> 01:25:33.960
to fly, but sure enough, they said, yeah, we're

01:25:33.960 --> 01:25:37.180
going to do it. And so they send our private

01:25:37.180 --> 01:25:40.119
jet, our private Department of Fish and Wildlife,

01:25:40.140 --> 01:25:42.319
nice jet. So California Department of Fish and

01:25:42.319 --> 01:25:44.359
Wildlife plane comes down. And we needed officers

01:25:44.359 --> 01:25:47.060
to escort them. So they jump on board and we

01:25:47.060 --> 01:25:50.439
fly as tushy. Back to Crescent City. And it was

01:25:50.439 --> 01:25:54.079
like, of course, that was a sensation. Little

01:25:54.079 --> 01:25:55.819
Crescent City, because this is a really small

01:25:55.819 --> 01:25:57.819
town, we're getting this guy extradited. He's

01:25:57.819 --> 01:26:00.239
international, you know, so it was a it was a

01:26:00.239 --> 01:26:02.600
big deal. It was a big deal for us, you know.

01:26:02.939 --> 01:26:05.560
So that happened, and he ended up going there.

01:26:05.680 --> 01:26:07.439
Of course, the judge said no bail this time.

01:26:07.460 --> 01:26:11.180
No bail this time. And judges, they might be

01:26:11.180 --> 01:26:13.439
nice the first time, but if you lie to a judge,

01:26:14.039 --> 01:26:15.199
they're pretty ticked off. If you flee, you're

01:26:15.199 --> 01:26:17.119
not getting bail a second time. No. No, and he

01:26:17.119 --> 01:26:20.039
wasn't very happy about it. So anyways, they

01:26:20.039 --> 01:26:23.180
end up... playing out, they end up getting $10

01:26:23.180 --> 01:26:26.399
,000 fines. Well, I should say, they. So we never

01:26:26.399 --> 01:26:28.880
got Young in backpack. Right. He's still a fugitive.

01:26:30.680 --> 01:26:34.279
But the main guy who was the mastermind, he ended

01:26:34.279 --> 01:26:37.680
up getting a $10 ,000 fine. And then they gave

01:26:37.680 --> 01:26:41.020
him restitution charges of, I think it was like

01:26:41.020 --> 01:26:46.659
$142 ,000, if I remember. They yanked all his,

01:26:46.779 --> 01:26:48.960
he had nursery licenses and all these licenses.

01:26:49.119 --> 01:26:50.939
They yanked all that and said, you can't have

01:26:50.939 --> 01:26:53.880
any more licenses. Good. And they sentenced him

01:26:53.880 --> 01:26:56.699
to two years in jail time in state in state prison.

01:26:56.739 --> 01:27:00.199
So he's, he's done his, yeah, his time in federal

01:27:00.199 --> 01:27:02.680
jail. And they're saying you're actually going

01:27:02.680 --> 01:27:06.619
back to jail, you know, the state prison, a teeny

01:27:06.619 --> 01:27:09.720
bit of time served, but he still I remember this

01:27:09.720 --> 01:27:12.260
number is 545 days, he was still going to serve

01:27:12.260 --> 01:27:14.800
in jail, even with time serve. Nice. So I'm like,

01:27:14.840 --> 01:27:16.779
cool, he's still got some more time, he might

01:27:16.779 --> 01:27:18.739
be thinking he's done, but he's not, you know,

01:27:18.939 --> 01:27:22.239
and it really was a victory and this it hit the

01:27:22.239 --> 01:27:25.180
media like a storm right yeah this case made

01:27:25.180 --> 01:27:28.220
the guardian and you know the headline was you

01:27:28.220 --> 01:27:31.470
know something about you know the, you know,

01:27:31.569 --> 01:27:33.529
plant poaching king or something you guys brought

01:27:33.529 --> 01:27:35.289
down, which is pretty cool. Oh, it was a big

01:27:35.289 --> 01:27:37.329
deal, you know, because he was, like I said,

01:27:37.869 --> 01:27:40.630
over 100, you know, upper of 200 ,000 plants

01:27:40.630 --> 01:27:43.390
near, you know, you're talking about a $600 ,000

01:27:43.390 --> 01:27:45.569
shipment in 2019. And he'd been doing it since

01:27:45.569 --> 01:27:48.050
2013. This guy was millions and millions. Oh,

01:27:48.109 --> 01:27:50.590
yeah. And that's how he can afford to have international

01:27:50.590 --> 01:27:53.130
tickets. Oh, yeah. Hotels, renting vehicles,

01:27:53.430 --> 01:27:55.789
renting the nursery. That all costs money. A

01:27:55.789 --> 01:27:58.220
lot of money. Hiring employees. Yeah. it's a

01:27:58.220 --> 01:28:00.500
drop of the bucket right that's why when he saw

01:28:00.500 --> 01:28:03.659
it you know so so that was good all the the jail

01:28:03.659 --> 01:28:07.020
time really hits home to me because that that's

01:28:07.020 --> 01:28:08.760
the deterrent that you're actually going to serve

01:28:08.760 --> 01:28:12.000
this time and and he did and the media the media

01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:14.520
was great because it got worldwide attention

01:28:14.520 --> 01:28:18.199
and anybody who was thinking about poaching plants

01:28:18.199 --> 01:28:20.680
who thought i'll just get a slap on the wrist

01:28:20.680 --> 01:28:24.840
this is a true deterrent We're gonna go to another

01:28:24.840 --> 01:28:27.760
country and get your tushy if you do this. We're

01:28:27.760 --> 01:28:30.100
not messing around anymore. So that was that

01:28:30.100 --> 01:28:32.460
has some serious bite. They even made a film

01:28:32.460 --> 01:28:35.819
out of it called Plant Heist. It tells the whole

01:28:35.819 --> 01:28:38.619
story both of this case and how it all started

01:28:38.619 --> 01:28:40.739
in the other cases. It's pretty neat and most

01:28:40.739 --> 01:28:42.720
of those cases are that the special operations

01:28:42.720 --> 01:28:44.859
unit team along with Ward and Freeling and it

01:28:44.859 --> 01:28:47.479
is really cool. Plant Heist. Okay make sure our

01:28:47.479 --> 01:28:49.439
listeners and viewers go see Plant Heist. Look

01:28:49.439 --> 01:28:51.600
at it. It's online. I think it's probably YouTube.

01:28:51.689 --> 01:28:53.369
I don't know if you throw out for YouTube. So

01:28:53.369 --> 01:28:55.189
you mentioned that this was the most important

01:28:55.189 --> 01:28:58.369
case of your career. Why? Yes. Because I had

01:28:58.369 --> 01:29:01.270
mentioned earlier, we didn't have any laws, right?

01:29:01.689 --> 01:29:05.449
And I had, when these prior cases happened, I

01:29:05.449 --> 01:29:07.149
had thrown it out there. We were talking about

01:29:07.149 --> 01:29:09.130
it. Hey, we need laws. We need laws that are

01:29:09.130 --> 01:29:11.710
fish and game code, that have some teeth to them.

01:29:11.890 --> 01:29:14.149
I can't be always pulling vandalism out, conspiracy.

01:29:14.289 --> 01:29:17.699
I need something else. And, um, shockingly, they

01:29:17.699 --> 01:29:20.079
were like, okay, yeah, let's look at this. But

01:29:20.079 --> 01:29:22.180
then when this case happened, they're like, yeah,

01:29:22.180 --> 01:29:23.840
we have a problem. We need to do something about

01:29:23.840 --> 01:29:26.000
it. This is big. I mean, you say they mean state

01:29:26.000 --> 01:29:28.659
legislature, finally. Exactly. Yeah. And they,

01:29:29.279 --> 01:29:30.939
okay, when you say government, I think a lot

01:29:30.939 --> 01:29:33.939
of us think slow snail slow. Not always. Yeah.

01:29:34.300 --> 01:29:38.270
Not in this case. It was rocket fast. They were

01:29:38.270 --> 01:29:40.630
all on it. And I don't know, I wish I could throw

01:29:40.630 --> 01:29:42.890
out who worked on it, their names, because it

01:29:42.890 --> 01:29:45.010
was, it was pretty amazing and it got pushed

01:29:45.010 --> 01:29:47.810
through. And now they created this new law before

01:29:47.810 --> 01:29:50.710
he even left. They had it out there. It was fishing

01:29:50.710 --> 01:29:56.029
game code 2024. And it said your first violation

01:29:56.640 --> 01:30:00.819
is 5 ,000 to 50 ,000, no more than 10 ,000. That's

01:30:00.819 --> 01:30:03.500
just your first violation. Judge has a lot of

01:30:03.500 --> 01:30:05.340
discretion there depending on how serious it

01:30:05.340 --> 01:30:07.920
is, right? You come back and you do it. So say

01:30:07.920 --> 01:30:10.140
you're a citizen in the U .S. so you're not kicked

01:30:10.140 --> 01:30:12.039
out of the country and you're able to do it again.

01:30:12.380 --> 01:30:16.260
It's now 50 to 500 thousand dollars. So that

01:30:16.260 --> 01:30:18.939
was a huge deal. That was a big deal for us and

01:30:18.939 --> 01:30:22.010
new law getting created. But the other thing,

01:30:22.130 --> 01:30:24.430
and I only learned about this recently, I went

01:30:24.430 --> 01:30:26.789
on to read that someone wanted to know what our

01:30:26.789 --> 01:30:29.390
mission statement was. And I was shocked because

01:30:29.390 --> 01:30:32.609
it used to be, it had a bunch of stuff, but it

01:30:32.609 --> 01:30:35.390
said to protect fish and wildlife and the habitats

01:30:35.390 --> 01:30:38.630
that they live in. Well, I read our mission statement,

01:30:38.770 --> 01:30:41.930
it now says fish, wildlife, and plant resources.

01:30:42.920 --> 01:30:45.779
oh this is yeah that was fantastic so they're

01:30:45.779 --> 01:30:49.159
taking this serious now right got new laws we

01:30:49.159 --> 01:30:51.899
have a new mission statement that tells other

01:30:51.899 --> 01:30:53.600
wardens you know because at first they're like

01:30:53.680 --> 01:30:57.119
We do bears, we do deer. Plants, I don't think

01:30:57.119 --> 01:31:00.000
so. But now everybody's like, yeah, okay, we

01:31:00.000 --> 01:31:02.319
have laws, this is real, this is a lot of money,

01:31:02.579 --> 01:31:05.899
we're on it. And a better appreciation for just

01:31:05.899 --> 01:31:09.920
the amount of damage that one guy can facilitate,

01:31:10.060 --> 01:31:12.680
right? Over 100 ,000, 120 -something thousand

01:31:12.680 --> 01:31:14.380
plants. Can you imagine the bluff and the damage

01:31:14.380 --> 01:31:16.479
and all the plants that they... And this is one

01:31:16.479 --> 01:31:18.979
person, like you said, now multiply that by the

01:31:18.979 --> 01:31:20.979
other people that are doing it. That's some major

01:31:20.979 --> 01:31:24.960
damage that's happening. Yeah, it's so sad. We're

01:31:24.960 --> 01:31:27.239
going to wrap up here pretty quick, but weren't

01:31:27.239 --> 01:31:28.800
some of these plants returned to the wild, if

01:31:28.800 --> 01:31:31.960
I remember correctly? That's cool. That doesn't

01:31:31.960 --> 01:31:34.539
happen very often. Yeah. Well, what's interesting

01:31:34.539 --> 01:31:37.470
is because of the soil thing. It was kind of

01:31:37.470 --> 01:31:40.310
cool. If we knew where the plants came, so like

01:31:40.310 --> 01:31:42.430
the Creston City plants, we knew they all came

01:31:42.430 --> 01:31:45.829
from Demartin Beach, that area. Because of that,

01:31:45.869 --> 01:31:48.550
they were able to return them to that area. So

01:31:48.550 --> 01:31:50.989
Michael Van Hattem was able to take the plants

01:31:50.989 --> 01:31:53.819
that they knew there and actually... Return them

01:31:53.819 --> 01:31:57.060
to it some of the other plants from prior cases

01:31:57.060 --> 01:31:58.979
if they put them in soil They couldn't return

01:31:58.979 --> 01:32:01.359
to the wild but they were taken to places for

01:32:01.359 --> 01:32:03.979
educational purposes But they got a lot of plants

01:32:03.979 --> 01:32:06.060
that they put there and there was tons of volunteers

01:32:06.060 --> 01:32:08.199
that went out there California plant society,

01:32:08.199 --> 01:32:11.000
you know parks Just just a ton of people that

01:32:11.000 --> 01:32:12.979
were willing to go out there and put these thousands

01:32:12.979 --> 01:32:15.560
of plants back on these buffs where they blow

01:32:15.560 --> 01:32:19.229
exactly My understanding is Michael Van Hattem

01:32:19.229 --> 01:32:21.090
is still, he's our environmental scientist, was

01:32:21.090 --> 01:32:25.130
going out there. He's like a supervisor and actually

01:32:25.130 --> 01:32:27.670
seeing what the success rate is because just

01:32:27.670 --> 01:32:29.930
because you put them back in doesn't necessarily

01:32:29.930 --> 01:32:31.489
mean that they're still there. You know, if a

01:32:31.489 --> 01:32:33.430
windstorm comes or rain, they could get washed

01:32:33.430 --> 01:32:36.390
down. So he's looking into that, but at least

01:32:36.390 --> 01:32:39.060
there was this great effort. to put them out.

01:32:39.140 --> 01:32:41.180
You give them a chance. Yeah, exactly. I'm sure

01:32:41.180 --> 01:32:43.779
some took. And these plants can live a long time,

01:32:44.079 --> 01:32:47.420
outlive us. 100 years? Yeah. I was shocked. He

01:32:47.420 --> 01:32:49.600
held one up, this really beautiful plant, and

01:32:49.600 --> 01:32:51.819
he's all, this is about 100 years old plant.

01:32:52.479 --> 01:32:55.079
But it's like devastating. People are stealing

01:32:55.079 --> 01:32:58.479
these. Horrible. Well, you know what? Good for

01:32:58.479 --> 01:33:00.859
you, man. That's awesome. Congratulations to

01:33:00.859 --> 01:33:03.800
you and the whole team. Yeah, the whole SOU team.

01:33:04.260 --> 01:33:06.439
That's that's the Fed's County. It was it was

01:33:06.439 --> 01:33:09.359
just amazing. It's amazing case. It was an amazing

01:33:09.359 --> 01:33:11.380
example of how the feds work with the state.

01:33:11.420 --> 01:33:13.520
Yeah, the great work that the California Department

01:33:13.520 --> 01:33:16.520
of Fish and Wildlife does on on a, you know,

01:33:16.760 --> 01:33:19.079
less budget than most law enforcement agencies

01:33:19.079 --> 01:33:21.659
in this state operate under and how new laws

01:33:21.659 --> 01:33:25.720
laws got the plants back, got the bad guy. And

01:33:25.720 --> 01:33:28.819
this is just an awesome case. Yeah, I mean, kudos

01:33:28.819 --> 01:33:32.109
to you. So deadly as are now famous. They are

01:33:32.109 --> 01:33:35.630
super famous. And I thank you so much for coming

01:33:35.630 --> 01:33:38.250
on the show to tell this story. It's been great.

01:33:38.430 --> 01:33:41.229
It's a it's a story that I just absolutely love.

01:33:41.229 --> 01:33:43.050
I could talk about all day. I can't wait to hear

01:33:43.050 --> 01:33:45.390
part two. Well, I think you'll enjoy hearing

01:33:45.390 --> 01:33:47.909
from Anne Hereman, the prosecutor in South Africa.

01:33:48.869 --> 01:33:52.529
She kind of funny how her first reaction to me

01:33:52.529 --> 01:33:55.550
when I called her. But now this case is she is

01:33:55.550 --> 01:33:57.649
all about this case. Let me tell you. So it's

01:33:57.649 --> 01:34:00.010
pretty cool. All right, thank you, Savannah.

01:34:00.829 --> 01:34:02.430
Everybody, thank you so much for joining us.

01:34:02.449 --> 01:34:04.689
It's been a great episode. I appreciate Savannah

01:34:04.689 --> 01:34:06.789
Morgan being here to talk to us about her case.

01:34:07.250 --> 01:34:10.449
We'll see you next time. Nature's Secret Service

01:34:10.449 --> 01:34:13.050
is written and produced by me, Ed Newcomer, and

01:34:13.050 --> 01:34:16.189
is co -produced by the DHTV team here at California

01:34:16.189 --> 01:34:18.789
State University, Dominguez Hills. Follow us

01:34:18.789 --> 01:34:21.189
on social media and connect with us online at

01:34:21.189 --> 01:34:22.729
naturessecretservice .com.