WEBVTT

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If you want to learn more about the topics of

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today's episode, visit the podcast website at

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naturessecretservice .com. Thanks for listening.

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OK, people, listen up. Here we go. This is Nature's

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Secret Service, the podcast that puts you in

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the room with the men and women of wildlife law

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enforcement. I'm Ed Newcomer, your host. And

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today, our guest is Sean Mann, former special

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agent with the US Fish and Wildlife Service.

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Sean and I were actually classmates at the Federal

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Law Enforcement Training Center, the Academy

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for Federal Agents. So I've known him. We knew

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each other our whole careers. And he was a special

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agent for the US Fish and Wildlife Service between

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2002 until his retirement in 2024. So Sean, thank

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you for joining us. It's great to have you here.

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I really appreciate you coming on the show. Yeah,

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it's awesome to be here. Good to see you. Yeah,

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same. Good to see you too. I do have to say I

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want to give you a compliment right off the bat.

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You know, you have a background you were in the

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army for a long time, right? Yeah, how long were

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you in the army? 23 years that's 23 years and

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you did you know tours in starting in I think

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Somalia, right you were in Somalia I was in Africa.

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I was I was all over the place. Yeah Yeah, I

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know you did Afghanistan for a while. You were

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a drill sergeant You have a long career, you

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know, but what the compliment I'm gonna pass

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you is when you and I were at the Academy together

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You know, I overall thought the Academy was fun.

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I think you did too. I had a great time when

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we went to the law enforcement training center

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together to be agents. But of course, you know,

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in that setting, there's always stressful days,

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there's hard days or days you're just sick of

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the instructors. But you, I mean, I don't remember

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a day of you ever being in a bad mood. And I

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have to be honest with you, you were always like

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a source of levity, you know, encouragement,

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You know whether it was at the dining hall and

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you'd crack a joke and make everybody laugh or

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whether it was during some training exercise

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where we were stressed out one I remember in

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particular was our our boat operating training

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where we had it was kind of stressful for me

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because I hadn't done that before oh yeah, and

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you just made made everybody laugh and you you

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always pointed out the the fun side of all of

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it and I you know, I just I'll never forget that

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about you and It's not something you normally

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associate with a guy who was a drill sergeant

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in the U .S. Army. Well, I think I probably hit

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it well, because I, at least during the Academy,

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was stressed every day. Were you? Oh, God, yeah.

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And it was, and I became even more stressed when,

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if you recall, one of our classmates had failed,

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I think, legal one. Yes. And, and then I was

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trying to help that individual study. And it

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wasn't until that moment that I realized when

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he revealed to me that, well, if I fail this,

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then I'm gone. That's my safety net. And I was

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like, what do you mean your safety net? And he's

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like, Sean, you, you only get to fail one test.

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Right. And then if, and then, then you're done.

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And then that's when I really started to stress

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out because. I didn't quite realize or maybe

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I hadn't been paying attention that, you know,

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I had left being a wildlife inspector and, you

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know, and I loved being a wildlife inspector.

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But I always wanted to be an agent without question.

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And that's when I really started to stress out

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because I realized like, shoot, I didn't realize

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that if you fail one of the major exams, you

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know, I thought you get a redo, but I thought

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you got to redo every time. You only get one

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redo. You get one. And oh my gosh, I, I panicked

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and Oh my gosh. Yes. You didn't show it. You

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never showed it. Well, I think, you know, I think,

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well, like you who did a lot of undercover work

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in your career. I, I, I did as well. And I think

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that was one of the things that probably helped.

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When you do undercover work, you can't show that

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stress. You've got to hide it. You can't show

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those stressors that affect you. You've got to

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have some way of deflecting it or hiding it or

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masking it. Mine, a lot of times, is humor, or

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you've got to just embrace those things, knowing

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yourself and just rolling with it. But yeah,

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no, I was until until we got to stabs, you know

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the special agent basic school for our portion

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of it with Fish and Wildlife Service I I relaxed

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a little bit until we got to the waterfowl ID

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portion Which I could tell you Donald was a duck

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And that was it. Yeah. Yeah, I Waterfowl was

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not my forte I that's probably into this day

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in credit to the to the agents that put on that

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course It's the hardest test I've ever taken

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in my adult life. I mean, 225 questions, fill

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in the blank. Yeah. And identifying birds by

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wing and feather and some, yeah, crazy. Yeah.

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You know, a bag and that's, oh my gosh, that

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I still stress about that test when I think about

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it. It's probably worth pointing out because

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you know, a lot of our, a lot of listeners of

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the show and watchers are not in law enforcement.

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So most So the way the training works for federal

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officers, federal agents is the FBI and the DEA

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have their own academies at Quantico, but all

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other federal agents, so whether it's Fish and

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Wildlife Service, Secret Service, ATF, whatever,

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they all go to the Federal Law Enforcement Training

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Center in Glencoe, Georgia, which is called FLETC.

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And within that program, the first thing that

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they have to complete is what's called CITP,

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Criminal Investigator Training Program, and that's

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the program you go through in order to become

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a special agent with the US government. And the

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curriculum at FLETC is basically the same curriculum

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that FBI agents and DEA agents do at their academies,

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because obviously we want to make sure we can

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all work together. But after that initial CITP

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is done, all of the federal agents go off and

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do what's called an add -on school, which is

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specific to their particular area of responsibility.

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Fish and Wildlife agents go to what's called

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SABs, Special Agent Basic School. Secret Service

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goes off to their own school to learn about what

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they do. But the basic core training is at CITP,

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where we all learn the basics of how to be special

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agents. So like, for example, Sean, when you

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and I went to the Academy, you remember, I think

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we were in there with Diplomatic Security Special

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Agents. We had a Forest Service agent that was

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in our class. But yeah, it could be a mix, you

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know, you might be sitting next to another fish

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and wildlife agent, or you might be sitting next

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to a Secret Service agent or an ATF agent in

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your basic training. But as you mentioned, it's

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no joke. You at CITP, if you do not score, I

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forget it's in the low set, I think 72 % or something

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on every exam 72 or better. You get one time

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to do a redo on a test. And that's your one shot.

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After that, if you do not score above the minimum

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score required, you're escorted off the facility

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that day. You're out. You're done. And there

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is a level of stress there that is present, I

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think, for all of us. And there's different aspects

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of training, the physical training, the firearms

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training. Each of us had our weaknesses that

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we were worried about, right? Yeah. And if you

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recall, we did lose people in our group. We did

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and they were gone like that day. They were gone.

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We never saw him again Yeah, pretty pretty pretty

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great. You'd go to lunch or you'd go to another

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training exercise and you'd come back and you

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know, you You know, you'd see their little area

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and it had already been collected up and yeah

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empty and scrubbed and they were gone You didn't

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see them not just gone. They were off the base.

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Yeah Crazy. And then you referenced the waterfowl

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identification course, which is something that

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is part of the special agent basic school specifically

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for Fish and Wildlife agents. And I'll tell you

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this, Sean, you know, you know, I'm a lawyer,

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and I practiced law before I became an agent.

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So I had to take and pass state bar exams. And

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I the only reason I bring that up is because

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that waterfowl identification class My brain

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has not hurt as the only time my brain hurt that

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bad Studying for an exam was when I was studying

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for a state bar exam to become a lawyer I mean

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that was one of the hardest tests I have ever

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taken in my life. That was brutal. I tell you

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I mean, I remember we were weird to be up study

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until midnight in that class looking at Bird

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wings and bird feathers and carcasses trying

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to get the ID down. That was a crazy time, wasn't

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it? It was, and you know, and you know, of course,

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you know, I went on to eventually become a senior

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special agent at FLETC. Right. That's right.

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And running a Savage class. And I tell you, it's

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like, you know, having like what I would refer

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to as like basic training flashbacks or something,

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you know, when you start getting out those wings

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and the guys would, they were coming in to teach

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that class, you know, and I started getting sick

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to my stomach and, you know, my head starts hurting

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and it's like, Oh gosh, you know, and. You know,

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but I, but there's a, you know, there's like

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a badge of honor knowing that you passed that

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course of a hundred percent, you know, and to

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this day, legitimate. Yeah. And to this day,

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if I ask you what a widget feather is, you're

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going to know exactly what that is. Aren't you?

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You better know what it was. Not as well as I

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used to. You better know what a widget feather

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is better now than I was then. But, uh, I think

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I got an 82 on the test. I don't recall what

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I got. I just know I passed. That's all that

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mattered. Yeah. I mean, I definitely was better

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coming out of that test than going in. Um, I

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was definitely better on my Raptors than I was,

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you know, which was obviously a separate test,

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you know, your Raptor ID test, but, uh, Oh yeah.

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My head still rolls. You know, when I, when I

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think about that, that was, you know, and to

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know that was at Lee in our class, you know,

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he missed one on that entire test. And it's just

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like, uh, you know, it's like, That's respect

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to you sir. It only matters that you pass. You

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know you that reminds me you're in your long

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career You were a wildlife inspector before you

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came an agent, which is the uniformed You know

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inspection division of the Office of Law Enforcement

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But you had a really cool kind of well -rounded

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career you spent time as a as a training agent

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at Flat C federal law enforcement training center

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where you Inevitably, you know undoubtedly helped

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many new agents through the training process

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But you also ended your career as a resident

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agent in charge in the in the northeastern US.

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So you had a great opportunity to be a supervisor.

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And then you started your career as a field agent

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in region one on the west coast, same region

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I was in, we didn't work in the same field office,

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but we were in the same region. And that's, that's

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where I want to jump to today. Because since

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we're talking about birds, we might as well talk

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about eagles. And one of the great fun cases

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that you did involved some straight up eagle

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poachers that ended up not just being people

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who were out there shooting eagles, but they

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were trafficking and eagle parts. And I think

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you know, law enforcement, wildlife law enforcement,

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people are definitely going to know what that's

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about. But most I would bet most of our listeners

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had really have no clue that eagle parts are

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have value that they're trafficked that there's

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a demand for them and people are out there killing

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eagles. So Before we jump into the case, if you

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don't mind, I want to give just a quick background

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on what the situation with eagles in the US the

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laws that protect them and then you you jump

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in if I miss anything or you get anything wrong.

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So basically, there's tears to eagles native

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to North America. It's the bald eagle and the

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golden eagle. And I think most people would know

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them if they saw them. But there's there's Two

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laws in particular that particularly protect

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eagles. The bald eagle used to be listed under

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the Endangered Species Act. It has been declared

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recovered, so it has now been delisted. So it's

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no longer under the protection of the ESA. But

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both the bald eagle and golden eagle are protected

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under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act, which is

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a 100 -year -old law protecting migratory birds.

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It's illegal to take a bird listed under the

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MBTA, and to do so would be a Class B misdemeanor,

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which means punishable by up to six months in

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jail and I think a $25 ,000 fine. However, under

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the MBTA, if you take a protected bird with the

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intent to sell it, or if you do sell it, that's

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actually a Class D felony, which means you go

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to jail for up to two years. I don't I came out

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what the maximum fine on that is. Do you remember

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Sean? It's 100 ,000 or 250. I can't remember

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on a class D felony Not not really important.

00:14:00.070 --> 00:14:03.490
Yeah Cuz you'll never get the max penalty anyway.

00:14:03.570 --> 00:14:05.669
Yes. Oh, no, you never get the max anything But

00:14:05.669 --> 00:14:08.250
to say the least any time it's a felony. That's

00:14:08.250 --> 00:14:11.070
that's the critical thing Yeah, the the other

00:14:11.070 --> 00:14:13.190
law that protects eagles. There is a specific

00:14:13.190 --> 00:14:15.629
law called the bald and golden eagle protection

00:14:15.629 --> 00:14:19.590
act. It's a federal law basically just similar

00:14:19.590 --> 00:14:22.490
prohibitions to what's under the MBTA, but it

00:14:22.490 --> 00:14:25.529
specifically addresses bald and golden eagles.

00:14:25.850 --> 00:14:29.090
And that penalty is a Class A misdemeanor for

00:14:29.090 --> 00:14:33.470
first offense and can turn into a felony for,

00:14:33.509 --> 00:14:35.970
I think, second or third offenses. I can't remember

00:14:35.970 --> 00:14:38.070
for sure. Do you recall? Well, that's what's

00:14:38.070 --> 00:14:41.169
unique about the statute is first offense is

00:14:41.169 --> 00:14:43.590
a misdemeanor. Yeah, Class A. So that's one year

00:14:43.590 --> 00:14:46.850
in jail, $100 ,000 fine. And then the second

00:14:46.850 --> 00:14:50.909
offense is a felony. Yeah, okay. And that's what

00:14:50.909 --> 00:14:54.610
makes that statute unique. Yeah. Yeah. And it

00:14:54.610 --> 00:14:57.710
makes it more powerful than in the MBTA. Although,

00:14:58.070 --> 00:15:00.330
if you get that take with intent to sell under

00:15:00.330 --> 00:15:03.110
the MBTA, you've got pretty good felony charges.

00:15:03.649 --> 00:15:06.309
Right. Yes. Yeah. Anyway, so that's kind of where

00:15:06.309 --> 00:15:10.049
we are with eagles. But across the US, eagles

00:15:10.049 --> 00:15:13.850
have value in illicit markets, primarily for

00:15:14.159 --> 00:15:17.480
Their feathers and their sometimes their talons

00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:21.659
or their other body parts Yeah, and I know you

00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:23.340
worked in the western u .s. For quite a while.

00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:26.779
So You know, there's a lot of eagles in california

00:15:26.779 --> 00:15:29.259
and the western u .s. There's bald eagles all

00:15:29.259 --> 00:15:33.960
over the u .s. Now So let's talk about this in

00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:39.200
in 2007 you basically become aware of like a

00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:41.279
straight -up eagle poaching case that kind of

00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:46.320
was uncovered in progress, right? November 2007

00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:49.860
In this case the dates are a little bit relevant

00:15:49.860 --> 00:15:52.500
here because it starts to get a little convoluted

00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:54.960
when you start talking about our subject here,

00:15:54.960 --> 00:16:01.759
but Somebody gets a call from somebody calls

00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:06.019
the California At the time cow fishing game.

00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:09.159
They're not that they're now called California

00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:12.860
Department of Fish and Wildlife that suspected

00:16:12.860 --> 00:16:17.860
eagle poaching north of Bakersfield. So two wardens

00:16:17.860 --> 00:16:23.320
driving separate vehicles head out there. They

00:16:23.320 --> 00:16:25.659
just are. This is like a crime in progress gets

00:16:25.659 --> 00:16:27.960
called in, right? This is happening now. Yeah,

00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:30.639
yeah. Yeah, this is happening now. But most wardens

00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:32.799
most game wardens in California and other states,

00:16:32.960 --> 00:16:34.960
they're uniform, they drive a marked vehicle,

00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:38.799
their essential function is patrol. And you know,

00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:42.330
immediate enforcement. So Unlike a special agent

00:16:42.330 --> 00:16:44.210
with the Fish and Wildlife Service who doesn't

00:16:44.210 --> 00:16:46.169
wear a uniform doesn't drive a marked vehicle

00:16:46.169 --> 00:16:48.889
They have radios in their vehicles. They're dispatched.

00:16:48.909 --> 00:16:51.429
They have specific areas that they patrol. They're

00:16:51.429 --> 00:16:54.549
kind of perfectly Positioned to respond to these

00:16:54.549 --> 00:16:58.250
kind of crimes in progress, right? So yeah, that's

00:16:58.250 --> 00:17:01.190
kind of cool because it even if Fish and Wildlife

00:17:01.190 --> 00:17:04.980
had gotten the the tip it's not like U .S. Fish

00:17:04.980 --> 00:17:06.960
and Wildlife Service has a dispatcher that could

00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.180
dispatch somebody to go investigate. It's got

00:17:09.180 --> 00:17:12.339
to be a state game warden who's the beat cop,

00:17:12.700 --> 00:17:14.480
right? The first responder. They're out there

00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:16.079
working. They get the call. They're going to

00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:19.160
roll on it, basically. So it is cool. You had

00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:21.240
there were two wardens in the area. They responded.

00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:23.720
What would tell us what they what they discover?

00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:27.519
Well, they they they were actually in pursuit.

00:17:27.980 --> 00:17:34.119
One warden was in pursuit and and actually Pulled

00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:36.740
over the vehicle that was in question that was

00:17:36.740 --> 00:17:40.299
called in on the tip and was dealing with the

00:17:40.299 --> 00:17:43.119
subjects in the vehicle all the while the other

00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:52.599
warden found a. A deceased golden eagle on the

00:17:52.599 --> 00:17:56.000
side of the road. And collected it up as evidence

00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:59.019
since the report was that it was eagle poaching.

00:17:59.390 --> 00:18:03.230
right? Seems seems appropriate. So that I mean,

00:18:03.349 --> 00:18:06.950
it's a clue. It's a clue. And you know, again,

00:18:07.150 --> 00:18:09.670
credit to the wardens for also doing some some

00:18:09.670 --> 00:18:13.690
great evidence collection as well. Because without

00:18:13.690 --> 00:18:15.470
good evidence collection, you really don't have

00:18:15.470 --> 00:18:18.869
a case either. No, and this is a great example,

00:18:18.869 --> 00:18:20.670
two of them working with us because they made

00:18:20.670 --> 00:18:23.630
the initial contacts. But because you had built

00:18:23.630 --> 00:18:25.950
relationships with your local wardens, they knew

00:18:25.950 --> 00:18:29.630
eagle cases are also they're you know, federal

00:18:29.630 --> 00:18:31.769
law, we have primary jurisdiction over eagles,

00:18:31.769 --> 00:18:34.750
even though it's also a state violation. So they

00:18:34.750 --> 00:18:37.710
roll up on this car. They've got a dead eagle

00:18:37.710 --> 00:18:39.990
off the road, the report they got from the informant

00:18:39.990 --> 00:18:42.529
or from the tipster is somebody's up here shooting

00:18:42.529 --> 00:18:44.910
eagles. And I assume they gave a description

00:18:44.910 --> 00:18:46.710
of the car. That's how the wardens found it.

00:18:47.509 --> 00:18:50.150
Right. Yeah. So what did they discover when they

00:18:50.150 --> 00:18:52.329
pulled this car over and they contact the people

00:18:52.329 --> 00:18:55.630
in the car? So they contacted Kadoura Clark.

00:18:55.910 --> 00:18:59.519
Okay. And and Kadoura Clark was somebody known

00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:04.000
to the wardens who has historically been known

00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:10.900
in that area as somebody who has been reported

00:19:10.900 --> 00:19:16.859
to sell eagle parts on the Native American powwow

00:19:16.859 --> 00:19:19.900
circuit. Unfortunately, some people take advantage

00:19:19.900 --> 00:19:26.319
of the powwow circuits and go there to sell eagle

00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:30.220
parts and You know, but certain native because

00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:34.019
Native Americans have the right to possess You

00:19:34.019 --> 00:19:35.839
know, there's there's a subsection of the law

00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:39.200
that allows for them for religious rights and

00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.500
you know for their Native American Religious

00:19:41.500 --> 00:19:45.779
Freedoms Act To possess these things and they

00:19:45.779 --> 00:19:49.539
do trade them But they can't they can't sell

00:19:49.539 --> 00:19:51.599
them that's the difference they cannot sell them.

00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:54.900
That's the difference, right? And Kedura Clark

00:19:54.900 --> 00:20:03.480
is he is he a native? Well, that is well no He

00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:05.980
claims he is but not on any so the way that the

00:20:05.980 --> 00:20:11.099
way the Native American Tribal system works I

00:20:11.099 --> 00:20:14.059
guess is the recognized tribes in the US have

00:20:14.059 --> 00:20:17.240
a tribal membership role and they know who all

00:20:17.240 --> 00:20:20.819
the members of the tribe are so in a situation

00:20:20.819 --> 00:20:22.940
like this ultimately and we'll talk about it

00:20:22.940 --> 00:20:26.900
later, I assume is It was possible for you as

00:20:26.900 --> 00:20:29.000
an investigator to actually check with the tribes

00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:32.500
and find out if Kadurah Clark was indeed an enrolled

00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:39.880
member. Right. He claimed to be a certificate

00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:43.579
of blood enrollment of the Blackfeet tribe in

00:20:43.579 --> 00:20:52.759
Browning, Montana. Okay. Of subsequently no registration.

00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:57.170
Yeah. Either at the tribal level or at the federal

00:20:57.170 --> 00:21:00.089
level But he but he claimed that that's what

00:21:00.089 --> 00:21:02.490
he claimed. Yeah. Yeah, which is not uncommon

00:21:02.490 --> 00:21:05.210
You for an agent to encounter somebody who's

00:21:05.210 --> 00:21:06.910
got eagle feathers? They're usually the first

00:21:06.910 --> 00:21:09.349
thing they'll tell you whether it's true or not

00:21:09.349 --> 00:21:11.309
is that their tribal member and they're entitled

00:21:11.309 --> 00:21:14.589
to have them for religious purposes and and just

00:21:14.589 --> 00:21:17.150
to be clear on this the 10th Circuit Court of

00:21:17.150 --> 00:21:20.680
Appeals has made it very clear that you You have

00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.019
to be a tribal member in order to take advantage

00:21:23.019 --> 00:21:26.839
of this right to possess eagle feathers for religious

00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:31.099
or cultural purposes. You cannot be, you know,

00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:35.119
you or me, Sean, if we adopted Native American

00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:37.980
religious practices and considered ourselves

00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:42.200
following those doctrines or practices, that

00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:46.180
does not entitle us. We have no legal protection

00:21:46.180 --> 00:21:49.980
to it. possess an eagle feather. It's limited

00:21:49.980 --> 00:21:53.079
to you must be a member of a recognized tribe.

00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.819
And so it's pretty clear cut if you if you are

00:21:56.819 --> 00:21:59.559
if a member or not a member. So Kedura Clark,

00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:02.920
tell us what does Kedura Clark look like, like

00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:09.299
physically describe him. So he's kind of a short

00:22:09.299 --> 00:22:15.599
that he's like, you know, 5657 rotund African

00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:19.140
American. Yeah. And then it's not to say that

00:22:19.140 --> 00:22:21.599
a black person can't be a member enrolled member

00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:25.579
of a tribe. But it's just it's just an he's an

00:22:25.579 --> 00:22:27.359
interesting character in that he's pretty big

00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:32.660
dude, right? As far as Yo, yeah, yeah. And he

00:22:32.660 --> 00:22:36.160
he steps out of the car and it's not the first

00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:39.200
image you have of here's a Native American with

00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:41.240
eagle feathers for religious purposes, right?

00:22:42.339 --> 00:22:47.000
Right. And I, you know, jokingly, I can I can

00:22:47.000 --> 00:22:49.019
empathize because you know, as white as I look,

00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:52.460
I'm a registered Hawaiian. That's right. I forgot

00:22:52.460 --> 00:22:56.099
about that. Yeah, that's true. So, so I, I can

00:22:56.099 --> 00:22:57.759
empathize with that. You know, if he says, you

00:22:57.759 --> 00:23:01.200
know, if he looks African -American, but he says

00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:03.660
he's registered member of the Blackfeet tribe

00:23:03.660 --> 00:23:07.910
in Montana. Okay. It could be. I mean, you know,

00:23:08.329 --> 00:23:10.829
when I say I'm a registered wine, I certainly

00:23:10.829 --> 00:23:13.269
get the raised eyebrow till I slap out. I take

00:23:13.269 --> 00:23:17.349
out my registration card and then, uh, you know,

00:23:17.349 --> 00:23:20.789
and then that usually dispels, you know, most,

00:23:20.789 --> 00:23:25.029
uh, you know, um, questions at that point, but

00:23:25.029 --> 00:23:28.529
yeah, he, and he had fake registration papers,

00:23:28.529 --> 00:23:34.609
but, um, yeah, they were all, they were, you

00:23:34.609 --> 00:23:38.240
know, the investigation would, later show that

00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:43.559
they were printed up by his brother. Yeah. So

00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:46.640
what happened at this initial traffic stop with

00:23:46.640 --> 00:23:49.539
Kudura Clark? Wasn't just there was somebody

00:23:49.539 --> 00:23:51.460
else with Kudura, right? There was he wasn't

00:23:51.460 --> 00:23:55.980
alone. Yeah. Thompson. Yeah. And what is his?

00:23:57.640 --> 00:24:00.920
That was his buddy. That was his buddy Thompson,

00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:05.539
who's was known to them as well. But the wardens

00:24:05.539 --> 00:24:08.960
did a great job of evidence collection. They

00:24:08.960 --> 00:24:12.339
looked in the car. They found other migratory

00:24:12.339 --> 00:24:17.960
bird parts. They found weapons. They found two

00:24:17.960 --> 00:24:24.119
rifles. They found blood in the trunk. They found

00:24:24.119 --> 00:24:28.759
blood in the car. They took evidence, DNA evidence

00:24:28.759 --> 00:24:33.599
of the blood. of both the areas of the vehicle

00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:36.619
that they found. I mean, so they did a phenomenal

00:24:36.619 --> 00:24:41.259
job of documenting the evidence. And really,

00:24:41.460 --> 00:24:44.839
and if they hadn't done such a good job, we wouldn't

00:24:44.839 --> 00:24:50.000
have that case in the Eastern District of California

00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:55.539
starting right there. So, I mean, again, our

00:24:55.539 --> 00:24:58.819
working relationship with California Fish and

00:24:58.819 --> 00:25:02.519
Wildlife, Department of Fish and Wildlife Service,

00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:06.500
phenomenal. Because I think they knew at that

00:25:06.500 --> 00:25:08.440
point, we didn't know, obviously, but I think

00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:11.960
they knew this probably, we're going to go the

00:25:11.960 --> 00:25:15.819
federal route with this. Even though they issued

00:25:15.819 --> 00:25:23.039
citations, they transferred the case over to

00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:28.930
us. And then the AUSA filed those. in the Eastern

00:25:28.930 --> 00:25:32.589
District. Oh, okay. So after that contact, when

00:25:32.589 --> 00:25:34.670
they made that stop, they issued Kudura Clark

00:25:34.670 --> 00:25:39.890
and his pal state citations. So they kind of

00:25:39.890 --> 00:25:43.069
arrested, cited, and released, I guess. Is that

00:25:43.069 --> 00:25:46.309
right? Yeah. And then how did US Fish and Wildlife

00:25:46.309 --> 00:25:48.410
Service get involved after that? Did the wardens

00:25:48.410 --> 00:25:52.450
reach out to you and Bo Stone, or what? Yeah.

00:25:52.450 --> 00:25:57.289
So they contacted the Fresno office. So 2007

00:25:57.289 --> 00:25:58.950
with the state game wardens, that's the first

00:25:58.950 --> 00:26:00.930
time Clark had ever been charged, even though

00:26:00.930 --> 00:26:03.650
he'd kind of been on radar screens for years

00:26:03.650 --> 00:26:06.769
before that. Okay. Right. So this is so this

00:26:06.769 --> 00:26:11.029
is a big deal. We had a supervisor up in Oregon

00:26:11.029 --> 00:26:17.849
had cooperating private individuals or CPI, as

00:26:17.849 --> 00:26:20.609
we call them, you know, informants. You know,

00:26:20.609 --> 00:26:25.059
we had informants up in Oregon. who were reporting

00:26:25.059 --> 00:26:29.099
to supervisors up there that were making it down

00:26:29.099 --> 00:26:32.319
to California about Codora Clark. Interesting.

00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:36.259
Okay. And so Codora Clark is well -known. He

00:26:36.259 --> 00:26:39.299
was well -known up and down the West Coast of

00:26:39.299 --> 00:26:43.319
being somebody that was a nefarious player on

00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:45.720
the powwow circuit, somebody who was a bad actor,

00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:49.359
somebody that needed to be looked into, somebody

00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:53.140
that was killing eagles. Again, he was well -known.

00:26:53.420 --> 00:26:57.500
to the major players out there who were illegally

00:26:57.500 --> 00:27:04.559
trading in Eagle parts and people knew that Kodura

00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:08.180
was charging upwards of $3 ,000 at that time

00:27:08.180 --> 00:27:15.000
for a full Eagle. Upwards of $450 for certain

00:27:15.000 --> 00:27:18.619
parts like maybe a tail fan or a talon or a head,

00:27:18.980 --> 00:27:23.160
he would charge upwards of $450. So, but again,

00:27:24.099 --> 00:27:26.359
what you know, what you can prove two different

00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:29.099
things. So this was significant. Yeah, this is

00:27:29.099 --> 00:27:31.220
significant. And this actually raises what you're

00:27:31.220 --> 00:27:33.859
learning here raises another federal wildlife

00:27:33.859 --> 00:27:35.880
law that could trick kick in, which would be

00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:38.380
the Lacey Act. And the Lacey Act, basically,

00:27:38.400 --> 00:27:42.160
it would be a felony to transport any wildlife

00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:45.839
item, any, any wildlife taken in violation of

00:27:45.839 --> 00:27:47.960
federal law that's valued at more than $350,

00:27:48.539 --> 00:27:51.220
which all he has to do if he shoots an eagle

00:27:51.220 --> 00:27:52.980
and he picks it up and he puts it in his car,

00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:55.400
that's transport. And it doesn't have to cross

00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:58.299
the state line if the triggering law would be

00:27:58.299 --> 00:28:01.980
federal. So Lacey act would would trigger a felony,

00:28:02.019 --> 00:28:04.700
which would be up to five years in prison and

00:28:04.700 --> 00:28:08.039
a $250 ,000 fine. So now you've got some good

00:28:08.039 --> 00:28:11.980
violations that you could potentially hit Kedura

00:28:11.980 --> 00:28:14.759
Clark with. You mentioned that this initial state

00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:18.660
charge that happened in 2007, well, resulting

00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:22.319
from this traffic stop in 2007. Now you've got

00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:24.339
it's, it's almost like you've got Kadurah Clark

00:28:24.339 --> 00:28:27.279
cold, finally, finally, he's like, we got him,

00:28:27.299 --> 00:28:29.319
right? I mean, he we got dead eagles, we got

00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:32.839
a guy with eagle parts in his car, firearms,

00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:35.920
blood. It was a good case. But you mentioned

00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:38.559
that it got it started as a state case, but got

00:28:38.559 --> 00:28:41.799
transferred to the feds. So was he? How did that

00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:44.579
work? What was he charged with by the feds? And

00:28:44.579 --> 00:28:47.420
when? And when and yeah, when and with what?

00:28:49.809 --> 00:28:53.089
Well, so he wasn't actually well there's actually

00:28:53.089 --> 00:28:56.009
a lot that happened in between okay when he was

00:28:56.009 --> 00:29:00.289
actually charged a Few other things happened.

00:29:00.289 --> 00:29:02.789
Okay, what happened? Yeah, he actually wasn't

00:29:02.789 --> 00:29:08.450
charged until June of 2010 yeah with the with

00:29:08.450 --> 00:29:11.230
the stuff that happened as a result of this Eagle

00:29:11.230 --> 00:29:13.250
shooting in progress the charges didn't come

00:29:13.250 --> 00:29:16.970
down till 2010 right on the on the Fed side.

00:29:17.009 --> 00:29:21.990
Yeah. Yeah So another one of the things that

00:29:21.990 --> 00:29:24.750
the wardens did though, which I think is worth

00:29:24.750 --> 00:29:28.490
mentioning is that he took a field temperature

00:29:28.490 --> 00:29:33.890
of the eagle before they collected it, which

00:29:33.890 --> 00:29:38.710
was 104 degrees body temperature, which actually

00:29:38.710 --> 00:29:42.619
was quite significant. Um, as far as determining

00:29:42.619 --> 00:29:46.480
ca you know, time of death, uh, on the, on the

00:29:46.480 --> 00:29:48.980
Eagle, which, uh, gave them very little wiggle

00:29:48.980 --> 00:29:54.420
room on time, you know, uh, poaching Eagle call

00:29:54.420 --> 00:29:57.279
coming in, then making contact with the cars

00:29:57.279 --> 00:30:00.480
are chasing suing them, finding the Eagle that

00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:03.380
that was all very significant. So again, a lot

00:30:03.380 --> 00:30:05.960
of kudos to them for doing what they did. Uh,

00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:11.180
that, that was all very significant. So. in that

00:30:11.180 --> 00:30:18.299
contact. And then December of 2007, and really

00:30:18.299 --> 00:30:22.059
the incident happened around December 16th, but

00:30:22.059 --> 00:30:26.980
it was December 26th, your office in Torrance,

00:30:27.700 --> 00:30:31.619
an agent gets a call from FedEx in the local

00:30:31.619 --> 00:30:37.819
LA area that a package was returned from Canada.

00:30:38.559 --> 00:30:42.720
that was, uh, broken up and there was, uh, look

00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:46.099
like there was some animal parts in there, which,

00:30:46.220 --> 00:30:49.700
uh, upon inspection was bald and golden eagle

00:30:49.700 --> 00:30:55.460
parts. Okay. And, and, uh, uh, upon further in,

00:30:55.460 --> 00:30:59.039
uh, investigation on that, on that day turned

00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:03.619
out to be a one Codora Clark had attempted, well,

00:31:03.660 --> 00:31:06.859
not attempted, but he had mailed. This FedEx

00:31:06.859 --> 00:31:10.599
package to a subject in Canada without the proper

00:31:10.599 --> 00:31:14.819
permits. It was labeled as Hopi dolls or You

00:31:14.819 --> 00:31:17.759
know curios certainly not all the gold eagle

00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:28.200
parts And didn't have the proper CITES permits

00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:33.119
that would that Canada requires for that, but

00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:38.200
certainly not authorized for export on the US

00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:44.619
side. So now we're looking at two violations,

00:31:44.619 --> 00:31:48.960
you know, for Cordura. And this second one, that

00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:51.259
would have been a smuggling charge, which is

00:31:51.259 --> 00:31:55.240
export smuggling is a serious felony. Oh, yeah.

00:31:55.319 --> 00:32:02.099
Yeah. That's 10 years max. Laciact. Yep. I mean,

00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:08.519
false false labeling. 18 USC 545 smuggling. Yep.

00:32:09.099 --> 00:32:12.500
migratory bird. Treaty Act violations. I mean,

00:32:12.619 --> 00:32:15.420
yeah, you're you're really stepping in on that

00:32:15.420 --> 00:32:18.059
one. So this is a guy is this a guy who just

00:32:18.059 --> 00:32:20.480
a few months before had been charged or contacted

00:32:20.480 --> 00:32:22.920
by state game wardens for poaching and progress.

00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:25.880
And a few months later, he's shipping he's continuing

00:32:25.880 --> 00:32:28.779
to ship eagle parts out of the country. Yeah.

00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.119
Like two weeks later, like two, three weeks later.

00:32:31.559 --> 00:32:35.240
Okay. All right. Just a few weeks later. Yeah.

00:32:35.380 --> 00:32:37.200
Clearly somebody who hasn't learned their lesson.

00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:41.839
No, has not learned their lesson. No. Um, so

00:32:41.839 --> 00:32:43.940
yeah, cause that was because it was late November

00:32:43.940 --> 00:32:46.900
that they had this contact and it was just like

00:32:46.900 --> 00:32:50.700
December 16th that emails the, the parts out

00:32:50.700 --> 00:32:53.460
via FedEx. And you know, it wasn't until December

00:32:53.460 --> 00:32:56.880
26th that they got the, the package back. So

00:32:56.880 --> 00:32:58.950
right. Right. you know, there's some there's

00:32:58.950 --> 00:33:01.509
some time delay there. But yeah, I mean, when

00:33:01.509 --> 00:33:03.730
the dates are all figured out, I mean, this all

00:33:03.730 --> 00:33:06.430
happened in pretty short succession. And this

00:33:06.430 --> 00:33:10.809
is he the shipment went out of it went out through

00:33:10.809 --> 00:33:13.410
FedEx in Southern California, I guess. Is that

00:33:13.410 --> 00:33:15.390
right? Right. So now we're in the central district.

00:33:15.630 --> 00:33:17.769
Yeah. So you've got him now in two different

00:33:17.769 --> 00:33:21.630
put in judicial districts, right? You've got

00:33:21.630 --> 00:33:24.509
him on Eastern California for charges on the

00:33:24.509 --> 00:33:28.160
poaching incident. Right. And then Now you've

00:33:28.160 --> 00:33:29.960
got a smuggling incident down in the central

00:33:29.960 --> 00:33:32.460
district of California, which would be LA. Okay,

00:33:32.519 --> 00:33:36.940
so, so when does, when does he get, when does

00:33:36.940 --> 00:33:38.539
he get charged? I think if I remember right,

00:33:38.579 --> 00:33:40.880
he got charged with the Northern California or

00:33:40.880 --> 00:33:43.740
Eastern Californian stuffs earlier, right? Wasn't

00:33:43.740 --> 00:33:46.799
he charged and eventually charged federally?

00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:51.099
Yeah. So, so, so January of 2008. Yeah. Back

00:33:51.099 --> 00:33:55.660
when we could still dress up as FedEx. or UPS

00:33:55.660 --> 00:34:02.380
employees, we did a controlled delivery anticipatory

00:34:02.380 --> 00:34:05.119
search warrant. Ah, okay. Explain what that is

00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:08.059
for listeners who aren't law enforcement. Right.

00:34:08.539 --> 00:34:12.900
So that is a search warrant that you're going

00:34:12.900 --> 00:34:16.340
to serve on the contingency that they accept

00:34:16.340 --> 00:34:20.199
the package. Got it. So you're going to do a

00:34:20.199 --> 00:34:22.769
controlled delivery of a package. In this case,

00:34:22.769 --> 00:34:26.750
it was the FedEx package that was returned to

00:34:26.750 --> 00:34:29.190
the United States that he had attempted to ship

00:34:29.190 --> 00:34:34.710
out. And upon successful receipt of the package,

00:34:35.150 --> 00:34:37.809
that's when your search warrant becomes valid.

00:34:38.710 --> 00:34:40.550
Got it. So you're actually, Clark doesn't even

00:34:40.550 --> 00:34:42.550
know at this point that his package was intercepted

00:34:42.550 --> 00:34:45.730
by Canadian authorities, yeah? Yeah, he doesn't

00:34:45.730 --> 00:34:49.449
know that. Well, he knows it's been returned

00:34:49.449 --> 00:34:52.610
to the United States. but he doesn't know that

00:34:52.610 --> 00:34:55.690
it's been intercepted by law enforcement law

00:34:55.690 --> 00:34:57.530
enforcement yeah he has no idea that you guys

00:34:57.530 --> 00:34:59.750
know what's in it okay cool so he just thinks

00:34:59.750 --> 00:35:01.409
he's getting the package back that's perfect

00:35:01.409 --> 00:35:06.070
setup setup right yeah so um back at least in

00:35:06.070 --> 00:35:08.570
2008 they don't they don't allow this practice

00:35:08.570 --> 00:35:13.769
anymore uh but back in 2008 FedEx and UPS would

00:35:13.769 --> 00:35:17.670
still allow agents of different agencies to dress

00:35:17.670 --> 00:35:22.530
up as their carriers and participate in delivering

00:35:22.530 --> 00:35:26.210
in a controlled delivery. I hate to tell you

00:35:26.210 --> 00:35:28.809
this, Sean, but in Southern California, we never

00:35:28.809 --> 00:35:32.230
cared what FedEx thought about that. In our closet,

00:35:32.309 --> 00:35:34.769
in our office, we had a couple FedEx jackets.

00:35:35.750 --> 00:35:38.809
And yeah, after 2008, we routinely dressed as

00:35:38.809 --> 00:35:43.070
FedEx employees to deliver packages. I don't

00:35:43.070 --> 00:35:46.269
know what year they stopped doing it. Yeah, I

00:35:46.269 --> 00:35:47.969
don't remember either, but we didn't really care.

00:35:48.079 --> 00:35:50.260
I mean, we had the jackets. It doesn't didn't

00:35:50.260 --> 00:35:54.139
matter enough. Yeah, as long as it's not a policy

00:35:54.139 --> 00:35:55.840
of the Fish and Wildlife Service. We didn't care

00:35:55.840 --> 00:36:00.500
what FedEx thought. Okay, yeah. I only learned

00:36:00.500 --> 00:36:03.300
that when I got when I was a rack in, you know,

00:36:03.420 --> 00:36:06.800
New Jersey. And we were doing a lot of control

00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:08.440
deliveries. And we were trying to coordinate

00:36:08.440 --> 00:36:13.059
with FedEx. Yeah. And yeah, it used to be they'd

00:36:13.059 --> 00:36:15.179
let us dress up like them and drive their trucks

00:36:15.179 --> 00:36:17.059
and stuff. And that's what they don't do anymore.

00:36:17.059 --> 00:36:19.820
We had to Kind of fake it and pretend our truck

00:36:19.820 --> 00:36:21.980
was parked down the street when we did a delivery

00:36:21.980 --> 00:36:24.579
dressed as one of them But anyway, that's it.

00:36:24.619 --> 00:36:27.780
That's a total aside. Yeah, you do your you have

00:36:27.780 --> 00:36:30.340
your package delivered and so you execute the

00:36:30.340 --> 00:36:33.539
search warrant Yeah, so we working with cow fishing

00:36:33.539 --> 00:36:38.380
game and you know, we did the joint Anticipatory

00:36:38.380 --> 00:36:43.329
search warrant with the control delivery They

00:36:43.329 --> 00:36:47.030
made it fun on us because they accepted the package

00:36:47.030 --> 00:36:50.650
Codora Clark was there along with Thompson and

00:36:50.650 --> 00:36:55.090
some other people after Package was delivered.

00:36:55.090 --> 00:37:01.269
They take receipt of it Clark and another subject

00:37:01.269 --> 00:37:07.150
was coming out We decided to go in They ran they

00:37:07.150 --> 00:37:11.599
ran. Okay all they ran they made it fun Um, you

00:37:11.599 --> 00:37:13.659
don't always get runners, but this case they

00:37:13.659 --> 00:37:20.800
ran. Oh yeah. It was on. And, um, and we, but,

00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:23.880
but, but, but Clark and the other guy, you know,

00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:25.760
Clark wouldn't run it far. I mean, you know,

00:37:25.800 --> 00:37:28.980
he's a little overweight. Yeah. Yeah. I mean,

00:37:29.039 --> 00:37:31.159
he, even in a walk, it looked like he was, that

00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:34.260
was his dead sprint, but, uh, yeah, he gassed

00:37:34.260 --> 00:37:36.719
out pretty quick. The other guy was a runner.

00:37:36.940 --> 00:37:41.050
Uh, he, he put on a good chase. Um, The guy with

00:37:41.050 --> 00:37:42.969
the package though, he went out the back door.

00:37:43.849 --> 00:37:46.989
So we didn't see where he went, but he went into,

00:37:47.230 --> 00:37:50.090
he hopped the fence and was hiding. And so it

00:37:50.090 --> 00:37:52.230
took some time to find him, but we found him.

00:37:52.750 --> 00:37:55.650
And so he made it interesting. Yeah, that's a

00:37:55.650 --> 00:37:58.530
fun one. But yeah, that was fun. He made it fun

00:37:58.530 --> 00:38:05.369
for us. We pulled an incredible amount of stuff

00:38:05.369 --> 00:38:09.349
out of that house. Wow. Eagle stuff. Oh gosh.

00:38:09.530 --> 00:38:16.530
Yeah. I mean, I think the tally was the, I think

00:38:16.530 --> 00:38:18.730
when all was said and done, I think the lab,

00:38:18.730 --> 00:38:22.269
um, up in Oregon, when they tallied it up for

00:38:22.269 --> 00:38:27.190
us, I want to say that they equated all the evidence

00:38:27.190 --> 00:38:31.230
to equal about 10 different Eagles. Wow. Okay.

00:38:31.329 --> 00:38:34.409
We have, I think our listeners know from previous

00:38:34.409 --> 00:38:37.579
episodes, we have a forensic crime lab. specifically

00:38:37.579 --> 00:38:40.300
dedicated to fish and wildlife cases. It's actually

00:38:40.300 --> 00:38:42.460
run by the US Fish and Wildlife Service up in

00:38:42.460 --> 00:38:44.719
Ashland, Oregon. So that's nice. They did the

00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:47.920
forensic work for you. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah.

00:38:48.059 --> 00:38:51.679
And so they and they attributed about at least

00:38:51.679 --> 00:38:55.420
10 eagles out of that hall and then several other

00:38:55.420 --> 00:38:59.699
my owls, other migratory birds, raptors and whatnot,

00:39:00.199 --> 00:39:01.639
as you might expect. I mean, he's not going to

00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:03.579
just kind of eagle feathers. I mean, he had all

00:39:03.579 --> 00:39:10.280
kinds of feathers. Registration paperwork You

00:39:10.280 --> 00:39:14.059
know, so, you know, and you know that the search

00:39:14.059 --> 00:39:19.739
warrant is not the end of your case. No Yeah,

00:39:19.739 --> 00:39:21.880
it's where the paperwork that's where the real

00:39:21.880 --> 00:39:24.539
paperwork begins Yeah, there was there was a

00:39:24.539 --> 00:39:27.519
lot of work to do a lot of work to do I mean

00:39:27.519 --> 00:39:31.039
So I mean so much work in fact that I mean I

00:39:31.039 --> 00:39:33.559
had time to go fight a war and then come back

00:39:33.559 --> 00:39:36.909
There was a case was still there And the case

00:39:36.909 --> 00:39:44.489
was still going on. And they were just charging

00:39:44.489 --> 00:39:48.269
Clark as I was coming back from Afghanistan.

00:39:48.690 --> 00:39:50.369
And that's how much work there was to be done.

00:39:51.110 --> 00:39:52.889
It's like you have time to go fight a war in

00:39:52.889 --> 00:39:55.250
Afghanistan and then come back and then you're

00:39:55.250 --> 00:39:56.510
like, where are we at? Oh, we're just getting

00:39:56.510 --> 00:40:00.110
ready to charter. But you know, sometimes the

00:40:00.110 --> 00:40:02.730
wheels of government can move slow. investigation

00:40:02.730 --> 00:40:05.050
scan, thorough ones. So yeah, you were, you were

00:40:05.050 --> 00:40:06.590
in the reserves and you were called up and you

00:40:06.590 --> 00:40:09.329
went to Afghanistan for a while there, in the

00:40:09.329 --> 00:40:13.250
middle of your career. Yeah. Right. What was

00:40:13.250 --> 00:40:15.809
we charged? Yeah, go ahead. What was he charged

00:40:15.809 --> 00:40:18.889
with? So we, so we charged him with unlawful

00:40:18.889 --> 00:40:22.769
take of a golden eagle, unlawful possession of

00:40:22.769 --> 00:40:26.150
a golden eagle, and then unlawful possession

00:40:26.150 --> 00:40:28.889
of migratory bird parts. Okay, that was out of

00:40:28.889 --> 00:40:32.920
the Eastern District. Got it. Okay. And what's

00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:36.599
the outcome of those charges? He was sentenced

00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:41.440
in, he was officially sentenced in June of 2011.

00:40:41.559 --> 00:40:43.500
But wait, did he go to trial or what? Did he

00:40:43.500 --> 00:40:46.800
plead guilty eventually? Well, he eventually

00:40:46.800 --> 00:40:49.039
pled guilty. Okay. Okay. He didn't go to trial

00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:52.360
and then he didn't go to trial. No, he eventually,

00:40:52.360 --> 00:40:56.940
he eventually, uh, struck a deal and he, um,

00:40:59.179 --> 00:41:03.440
despite the evidence, which was overwhelming.

00:41:04.639 --> 00:41:08.639
And again, and you know as well as I do, sometimes

00:41:08.639 --> 00:41:13.760
despite your best evidence, sometimes deals are

00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:18.579
made that are beyond your control. Well, once

00:41:18.579 --> 00:41:20.480
we give our case to the U .S. Attorney's Office,

00:41:20.579 --> 00:41:23.480
it's not our case anymore, it's their case. Right,

00:41:23.539 --> 00:41:28.730
right. And I and I think where they had a problem

00:41:28.730 --> 00:41:31.849
was was that there was no eyewitness account

00:41:31.849 --> 00:41:37.250
of him taking the eagle Okay, I Mean, it's just

00:41:37.250 --> 00:41:39.070
that's that one little hurdle that you can't

00:41:39.070 --> 00:41:41.369
get over even though it was an eagle poaching

00:41:41.369 --> 00:41:46.250
call Yeah, there's nobody else in the area the

00:41:46.250 --> 00:41:50.309
lab had come back with a necropsy report, which

00:41:50.309 --> 00:41:53.329
is an Optotser report for animals. I don't know

00:41:53.329 --> 00:41:56.210
if you've discussed that or not. Yeah. So the

00:41:56.210 --> 00:42:00.650
Necropsy report said that the eagle was killed

00:42:00.650 --> 00:42:05.750
with a small projectile, but they didn't have

00:42:05.750 --> 00:42:10.730
a bullet fragment preserved enough to match with

00:42:10.730 --> 00:42:14.869
any of the rifles. So we didn't have a link analysis

00:42:14.869 --> 00:42:17.670
to show that it directly came from one of his

00:42:17.670 --> 00:42:21.170
rifles. Only enough to say that it could have

00:42:21.170 --> 00:42:26.010
yep Come from like the 22 Magnum that that we

00:42:26.010 --> 00:42:28.469
had seized so you had a you had a certain pretty

00:42:28.469 --> 00:42:30.389
good Circumstantial case, but you didn't have

00:42:30.389 --> 00:42:32.929
that. Yeah didn't have that concrete You know

00:42:32.929 --> 00:42:36.010
somebody putting a gun in Kadurah Clark's hand

00:42:36.010 --> 00:42:38.329
firing the gun at an eagle kind of you know Which

00:42:38.329 --> 00:42:40.190
would have been that would have been your slam

00:42:40.190 --> 00:42:43.550
dunk So he pled he pled guilty and cut a deal

00:42:43.550 --> 00:42:45.369
with the US Attorney's Office. What did he end

00:42:45.369 --> 00:42:50.880
up getting convicted of? So he the one charge

00:42:50.880 --> 00:42:54.320
that they got him on was knowingly transporting

00:42:54.320 --> 00:42:58.639
a golden eagle Because of the link analysis they

00:42:58.639 --> 00:43:02.460
had with the blood from the eagle that was collected

00:43:02.460 --> 00:43:07.000
With the blood that was collected from the vehicle

00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:12.019
that they were able to Solidly connect that eagle

00:43:12.019 --> 00:43:15.559
that was thrown out of the vehicle To the blood

00:43:15.559 --> 00:43:18.659
that was in the vehicle was one in the same nice.

00:43:18.780 --> 00:43:21.760
That's cool. So Yeah, that was cool. So even

00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:24.940
though they couldn't get him on Killing the eagle

00:43:24.940 --> 00:43:28.699
which circumstantial evidence Suggests there's

00:43:28.699 --> 00:43:31.159
nobody else in the area who else could have done

00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:34.280
it. Yeah, he wouldn't admit to it Neither did

00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:37.920
Thompson, but they did admit to all we found

00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:42.360
the eagle. It was already dead And then we threw

00:43:42.360 --> 00:43:46.389
it out so They've got him admitting to transporting

00:43:46.389 --> 00:43:49.449
it in collecting it. So hey, you know, that's

00:43:49.449 --> 00:43:51.750
that's still a violation. Yep still a violation

00:43:51.750 --> 00:43:56.389
But that's all we needed. Yep Because we got

00:43:56.389 --> 00:43:59.750
him on the misdemeanor, right? So we got him

00:43:59.750 --> 00:44:03.769
on that. So he got six months of unsupervised

00:44:03.769 --> 00:44:08.489
probation. Okay So and that was in the Eastern

00:44:08.489 --> 00:44:13.659
District so But this is important because you're

00:44:13.659 --> 00:44:16.199
laying, some people are like, what? He only got

00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:18.719
six months of unsupervised probation. But the

00:44:18.719 --> 00:44:20.980
real important thing here is you laid down a

00:44:20.980 --> 00:44:23.880
record, right? So finally, you've been looking

00:44:23.880 --> 00:44:27.780
at this guy since at least 2002. When I say you,

00:44:27.860 --> 00:44:29.940
I mean Fish and Wildlife and the state agencies,

00:44:30.539 --> 00:44:32.199
California Department of Fish and Wildlife and

00:44:32.199 --> 00:44:35.019
the feds, have been looking at Clark since 2002.

00:44:35.420 --> 00:44:39.460
But now you finally got a record. It's if he's

00:44:39.460 --> 00:44:44.019
down as a convicted eagle Transporter and that's

00:44:44.019 --> 00:44:46.900
right. That's that baseline, right? So if you

00:44:46.900 --> 00:44:49.119
catch him again now the penalties are gonna start

00:44:49.119 --> 00:44:51.219
getting more and more harsh if you start to catch

00:44:51.219 --> 00:44:58.380
him again, right? Right. Yeah, so good so I Was

00:44:58.380 --> 00:45:01.599
very excited at that point to call my friend

00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:06.320
in yours Dennis Mitchell Dennis Mitchell, Assistant

00:45:06.320 --> 00:45:08.619
U .S. Attorney in the Central District of California.

00:45:08.800 --> 00:45:13.320
Yep. Good guy. Great AUSA. Yep. Was very excited

00:45:13.320 --> 00:45:16.360
to call him and let him know that we have secured

00:45:16.360 --> 00:45:20.219
that misdemeanor and let's start working on that

00:45:20.219 --> 00:45:25.800
felony in the Central District. And so, and we

00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:29.940
started doing that. Of course, you know, Dennis

00:45:29.940 --> 00:45:36.789
is, he got a lot on his plate. Yeah. He's a busy

00:45:36.789 --> 00:45:42.510
AUSA. He is. And Dennis is the kind of guy. He

00:45:42.510 --> 00:45:45.429
works in the US Attorney's Office in Los Angeles.

00:45:45.949 --> 00:45:48.269
And he specifically is part of their environmental

00:45:48.269 --> 00:45:50.309
crimes unit. So he works on a lot of our cases.

00:45:50.849 --> 00:45:53.230
But he's one of those guys that you got to catch

00:45:53.230 --> 00:45:56.389
him. And you got to get him to commit on. Once

00:45:56.389 --> 00:45:58.329
he makes a decision on Tuesday, you got to get

00:45:58.329 --> 00:46:00.619
him to commit. Because if you go back and talk

00:46:00.619 --> 00:46:02.420
to him about the same thing on Wednesday, he

00:46:02.420 --> 00:46:06.679
might totally change his mind about it. So he's

00:46:06.679 --> 00:46:09.880
so busy. I've never seen anybody have more files

00:46:09.880 --> 00:46:13.739
stacked on their desk and on the floor and in

00:46:13.739 --> 00:46:16.639
on chairs in their office than Dennis Mitchell,

00:46:16.780 --> 00:46:19.980
he'll take on everything. It's organized chaos,

00:46:20.059 --> 00:46:22.840
organized chaos. He knows where it all is. But

00:46:22.840 --> 00:46:25.199
it sure looks like there's going to be an avalanche

00:46:25.199 --> 00:46:28.360
of paperwork at any moment. Yeah. Cause I would

00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:31.820
go down there on details, you know, uh, cause

00:46:31.820 --> 00:46:35.099
we issued a lot of subpoenas and, uh, cause I

00:46:35.099 --> 00:46:37.059
think we had, cause we were set to go to trial

00:46:37.059 --> 00:46:41.199
in July on, on, on the court. So Cordura Clark,

00:46:41.400 --> 00:46:44.380
so I think he got ahead of yourself. So eventually

00:46:44.380 --> 00:46:47.500
does Clark get charged down in Southern California,

00:46:48.619 --> 00:46:54.079
central district? Yes. So it was, um, so in August

00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:58.480
of 2012, So as you know, I mean, you know, now

00:46:58.480 --> 00:47:01.880
that case ends in the central district or in

00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:05.639
the eastern district, right? Now, now the case

00:47:05.639 --> 00:47:09.380
begins in the central district. Right. And this

00:47:09.380 --> 00:47:11.579
is the smuggling case involving eagle feathers

00:47:11.579 --> 00:47:14.920
shipped to Canada by FedEx. Right. Right. So

00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:17.739
now, now we're starting that case. Okay. That's

00:47:17.739 --> 00:47:21.300
down in LA and I'm up in Sacramento. Right. And

00:47:21.300 --> 00:47:24.849
then trying to travel down there. And your office

00:47:24.849 --> 00:47:27.469
provided me a lot of assistance. And again, that's

00:47:27.469 --> 00:47:29.690
where having good working relationships with

00:47:29.690 --> 00:47:33.230
even people in your own agency helps. Because,

00:47:33.550 --> 00:47:35.809
you know, sometimes if it was just one little

00:47:35.809 --> 00:47:39.150
thing that needed to be done, you know, having

00:47:39.150 --> 00:47:43.510
an agent down there doing it for you was a great

00:47:43.510 --> 00:47:47.250
assistance to me. Not having to go all the way

00:47:47.250 --> 00:47:49.449
down there. I remember I brought, you were down

00:47:49.449 --> 00:47:52.590
at the US attorney's office in LA on this case,

00:47:52.730 --> 00:47:55.219
like, eight or nine o 'clock at night one night.

00:47:55.599 --> 00:47:57.820
I brought something down. I brought some boxes

00:47:57.820 --> 00:48:00.059
of stuff over to the U .S. Attorney's Office

00:48:00.059 --> 00:48:01.820
for you. I can't remember. I know we met at the

00:48:01.820 --> 00:48:03.980
loading dock at the U .S. Attorney's Office.

00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:07.099
Yeah. Yeah. It was one of those things. Dennis

00:48:07.099 --> 00:48:09.139
was like, oh, yeah, we need this. We need this.

00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:11.559
And I'm like, that's like, Dennis, that's that's

00:48:11.559 --> 00:48:13.960
at the Torrance office. Yeah. And he's like,

00:48:13.960 --> 00:48:16.559
I need it. Yeah. And I gave you a call and you're

00:48:16.559 --> 00:48:20.440
like, you were at home. Yeah. You drove to the

00:48:20.440 --> 00:48:22.909
office and got it and brought it over. I didn't

00:48:22.909 --> 00:48:24.769
live too far from the office. So that worked

00:48:24.769 --> 00:48:27.570
out. And I was like, I always like to be out

00:48:27.570 --> 00:48:32.070
at night in LA anyway, working so. So he gets

00:48:32.070 --> 00:48:34.769
indicted in Central District for the smuggling

00:48:34.769 --> 00:48:37.969
charge. Is that what Dennis did for you? Yeah,

00:48:37.969 --> 00:48:44.389
so he so he, we eventually get him indicted in

00:48:44.389 --> 00:48:51.389
August of 2012. On four counts of false labeling,

00:48:51.719 --> 00:48:57.559
Laci act. The 545 smuggling outside of the US,

00:48:57.880 --> 00:49:05.559
right? And then unlawful export of of bald and

00:49:05.559 --> 00:49:10.940
golden eagle outside of the US and then illegal

00:49:10.940 --> 00:49:14.500
possession of my illegal possession of migratory

00:49:14.500 --> 00:49:19.079
bird parts. Okay, nice. So, so for count indictment.

00:49:19.119 --> 00:49:21.900
Yeah, that's kind of touching on felonies in

00:49:21.900 --> 00:49:27.940
there. Lacey felonies. Yeah, Lacey, 18 USC, Bald

00:49:27.940 --> 00:49:32.159
and Golden Eagle and MBTA. So yeah, good, good

00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:34.179
profile, good roundabout profile there. That

00:49:34.179 --> 00:49:37.440
was that felt pretty good. So what happens to

00:49:37.440 --> 00:49:39.440
explain what happens when somebody is indicted?

00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:43.000
They were they would did Clark was an arrest

00:49:43.000 --> 00:49:45.860
warrant issued or was he summons Dan after he

00:49:45.860 --> 00:49:49.070
was indicted? Do you remember? Yeah, so yeah,

00:49:49.110 --> 00:49:53.869
Dennis and I talked about that and. We so one

00:49:53.869 --> 00:49:56.389
of two things can happen. You can issue a summons

00:49:56.389 --> 00:49:59.750
and just say hey, we would like you to come in.

00:49:59.829 --> 00:50:02.150
You're required to come in. You've been indicted.

00:50:02.489 --> 00:50:05.769
You're required to show up. Yes, that's putting

00:50:05.769 --> 00:50:07.889
it too nicely. Yes, you're required to come in,

00:50:08.050 --> 00:50:10.909
but but but we're giving you this option of coming

00:50:10.909 --> 00:50:14.909
in on your own accord, right? And here's the

00:50:14.909 --> 00:50:17.849
date and time that you're required to come in

00:50:17.849 --> 00:50:21.510
and, and, you know, uh, be read these charges,

00:50:22.269 --> 00:50:26.969
or we can just issue an arrest warrant and not

00:50:26.969 --> 00:50:30.349
tell you about it. And then at a time of our

00:50:30.349 --> 00:50:33.449
place in choosing, we will come and find you

00:50:33.449 --> 00:50:37.190
and put on those iron handcuffs and bracelets

00:50:37.190 --> 00:50:40.349
and then bring you in when it's convenient for

00:50:40.349 --> 00:50:42.449
us. And then that's usually a surprise to the

00:50:42.449 --> 00:50:46.849
individual. And we felt that that was more appropriate

00:50:46.849 --> 00:50:51.550
in this situation for a lot of reasons. Second

00:50:51.550 --> 00:50:54.610
offense. Well, yeah, I mean, second offense,

00:50:55.050 --> 00:50:57.630
the fact that we just didn't feel that Clark

00:50:57.630 --> 00:51:00.730
was taking this seriously. Well, there's some

00:51:00.730 --> 00:51:03.030
people that learn a lesson and some people that

00:51:03.030 --> 00:51:05.469
don't. That's just the bottom line, yeah. Right,

00:51:05.590 --> 00:51:08.329
and it's the bottom line. And he wasn't learning

00:51:08.329 --> 00:51:11.110
a lesson. Yeah. So you issued that, you got an

00:51:11.110 --> 00:51:12.650
arrest warrant, you had an arrest warrant for

00:51:12.650 --> 00:51:16.130
him after the indictment, huh? We did. And the

00:51:16.130 --> 00:51:19.929
other reason is we couldn't find him. We had

00:51:19.929 --> 00:51:23.289
no idea where he was. And it's hard to issue

00:51:23.289 --> 00:51:27.710
a summons if you don't know where he is. So in

00:51:27.710 --> 00:51:30.849
that sense, we had to issue an arrest warrant

00:51:30.849 --> 00:51:35.400
because like, go find him. And how do you do

00:51:35.400 --> 00:51:37.760
that? What would you do once you had your arrest

00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:40.340
warrant in hand? You don't know where he is How

00:51:40.340 --> 00:51:43.639
do you go about making this arrest? Of course,

00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:47.559
this is where you kind of come into this this

00:51:47.559 --> 00:51:50.679
story Yeah, I was I was lucky enough to get involved

00:51:50.679 --> 00:51:53.719
in this which was one of a very fun thing for

00:51:53.719 --> 00:51:56.500
me because I during my career I actually had

00:51:56.500 --> 00:51:59.019
a number of opportunities to chase down fugitives

00:51:59.019 --> 00:52:01.840
and I loved it. I loved doing that it was one

00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:04.800
of my favorite things to do so But anyway, once

00:52:04.800 --> 00:52:07.639
so the mechanics of this are once a an arrest

00:52:07.639 --> 00:52:10.019
warrant is issued, the US Marshals put it into

00:52:10.019 --> 00:52:13.719
NCIC. So that, you know, if for if perhaps Kadoura

00:52:13.719 --> 00:52:15.880
Clark's pulled over for a traffic violation,

00:52:16.239 --> 00:52:19.179
and the local police, you know, do a routine

00:52:19.179 --> 00:52:21.239
check on him, it should pop up, right? They should

00:52:21.239 --> 00:52:22.960
say, Oh, he's got an arrest warrant, and they

00:52:22.960 --> 00:52:25.559
should arrest him for you. So you kind of have

00:52:25.559 --> 00:52:28.119
that out there. There's the chance that Codura

00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:30.760
Clark could get contacted by a local police officer

00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:33.159
on a routine traffic stop and get picked up that

00:52:33.159 --> 00:52:37.940
way. But also, you can kind of send this warrant

00:52:37.940 --> 00:52:42.219
out to different agents in the service and presumably,

00:52:42.679 --> 00:52:44.219
you don't know where he is, but you have some

00:52:44.219 --> 00:52:46.320
ideas where he might be, right? And I think that's

00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:48.159
why you called me because you had an idea he

00:52:48.159 --> 00:52:50.619
might be in Southern California, isn't it? That's,

00:52:50.719 --> 00:52:53.079
that's my recollection of it in any way, isn't

00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:57.469
it? Yeah, we knew he had a girlfriend that was

00:52:57.469 --> 00:53:04.690
down in Southern California. His ex -wife was

00:53:04.690 --> 00:53:11.050
in Southern California. He had two boys. So we

00:53:11.050 --> 00:53:17.909
knew that he had ties to the LA area. There was

00:53:17.909 --> 00:53:21.550
no information that we had that had him, he had

00:53:21.550 --> 00:53:23.690
been up in Sacramento and in Northern California

00:53:23.690 --> 00:53:27.889
at times. Right. But all the information that

00:53:27.889 --> 00:53:31.590
we had suggested that he was either out of the

00:53:31.590 --> 00:53:35.409
state and was, you know, in South Dakota or Montana,

00:53:36.010 --> 00:53:40.150
Denver, or he was in LA. I remember you, you

00:53:40.150 --> 00:53:42.150
told me you had sent some leads out to other

00:53:42.150 --> 00:53:44.250
agents in other states. I believe South Dakota

00:53:44.250 --> 00:53:47.190
was one of them to kind of say, Hey, can you

00:53:47.190 --> 00:53:50.010
see if you can find this guy? Do you remember

00:53:50.010 --> 00:53:52.309
what you did personally like up in your area?

00:53:52.369 --> 00:53:55.449
Did you try to find him? What steps did you take

00:53:55.449 --> 00:54:00.050
to find him? Well, we hit all the hotspots that

00:54:00.050 --> 00:54:05.130
we knew he was known to either stay at or people

00:54:05.130 --> 00:54:10.969
that he knew or hung out with. I mean, all the

00:54:10.969 --> 00:54:14.190
areas that you would canvas. Yeah. Any of the

00:54:14.190 --> 00:54:20.360
powwows we would hit. um you know any any associates

00:54:20.360 --> 00:54:25.639
or known associates you know uh long hours uh

00:54:25.639 --> 00:54:28.300
looking for him just looking look yeah just looking

00:54:28.300 --> 00:54:31.139
i mean so i'll jump i'll jump in here because

00:54:31.139 --> 00:54:33.199
this is one of the neat things about being a

00:54:33.199 --> 00:54:35.039
special agent with u .s fish and wildlife service

00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:37.360
we have agents all over the country you mentioned

00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:39.599
you reached out to agent brad merrill in south

00:54:39.599 --> 00:54:42.800
dakota thinking maybe you know you know that

00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:45.840
uh Clark's got connections with Native Americans.

00:54:46.019 --> 00:54:48.380
He likes to kind of tell people he's a Native

00:54:48.380 --> 00:54:50.519
American. He's obviously selling feathers in

00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:52.880
that community. So there's a chance he could

00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:55.820
show up out there at a powwow or on a reservation.

00:54:56.619 --> 00:54:58.679
So you were able to reach out to Agent Merrill

00:54:58.679 --> 00:55:01.380
for some help on that. Brad couldn't find him.

00:55:01.699 --> 00:55:03.940
You've got yourself and other agents in Northern

00:55:03.940 --> 00:55:06.420
California looking, but you also were able to

00:55:06.420 --> 00:55:09.079
just reach out to our office and you called me.

00:55:09.340 --> 00:55:12.500
And I'll tell you, I did similar things. So here's

00:55:12.500 --> 00:55:15.619
what I did. First of all, whenever I got a call

00:55:15.619 --> 00:55:18.719
from an agent from outside my district, I kind

00:55:18.719 --> 00:55:21.679
of made that my priority because I always thought

00:55:21.679 --> 00:55:23.699
one of the greatest strengths of the US Fish

00:55:23.699 --> 00:55:25.519
and Wildlife Service is that we have this network

00:55:25.519 --> 00:55:28.420
of agents, right? So I loved it when I would

00:55:28.420 --> 00:55:32.599
get a call from an agent from outside my district

00:55:32.599 --> 00:55:35.179
who said, hey, Ed, I need your help. Can you

00:55:35.179 --> 00:55:38.380
do X, Y or Z? always kind of tried to make that

00:55:38.380 --> 00:55:40.500
my highest priority because I just thought that's

00:55:40.500 --> 00:55:43.539
that that is the strength that our Agency has

00:55:43.539 --> 00:55:45.860
in law enforcement that say state agencies do

00:55:45.860 --> 00:55:48.500
not have we can we can just pick up the phone

00:55:48.500 --> 00:55:51.079
and make a call to an agent we know in that area

00:55:51.079 --> 00:55:53.980
and they'll They will kind of become an extension

00:55:53.980 --> 00:55:56.800
of us So when you called me and you said hey,

00:55:56.800 --> 00:55:58.780
we can't find this guy. We need to find him I

00:55:58.780 --> 00:56:01.960
was like, okay now I am Shawn man This is you

00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:03.800
know, I'm thinking like Shawn. I want to get

00:56:03.800 --> 00:56:07.090
this guy And I made it my priority. And I kind

00:56:07.090 --> 00:56:09.730
of did what you did up north. I started with,

00:56:10.449 --> 00:56:12.769
I just started going to powwows in Southern California

00:56:12.769 --> 00:56:15.030
looking for him, right? I mean, I literally had

00:56:15.030 --> 00:56:17.409
the arrest warrant in my pocket and I'd go to

00:56:17.409 --> 00:56:20.650
the powwows and look for this guy and couldn't

00:56:20.650 --> 00:56:24.710
find him. And then we had, we started to do surveillance

00:56:24.710 --> 00:56:28.869
on an address in Pacoima that turned out he was,

00:56:28.869 --> 00:56:33.349
he was his brother -in -law or something was

00:56:33.400 --> 00:56:35.360
there were people living there who were renting

00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:38.280
the house from Kedura Clark see their brother

00:56:38.280 --> 00:56:40.119
or brother -in -law I can't remember but they

00:56:40.119 --> 00:56:42.320
claimed they didn't know where he was but we

00:56:42.320 --> 00:56:44.500
did surveillance on that house for weeks and

00:56:44.500 --> 00:56:48.940
we never saw him and then this is this is where

00:56:48.940 --> 00:56:51.619
we finally got him in LA we finally got him in

00:56:51.619 --> 00:56:53.739
Southern California and and I'll tell you the

00:56:53.739 --> 00:56:58.119
way we got him Sean is like you I always took

00:56:58.119 --> 00:57:01.239
advantage of networking with other agencies and

00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:06.699
there are what are called fusion centers in law

00:57:06.699 --> 00:57:09.280
enforcement. They're all over the US. And they're

00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:13.440
centers usually in urban areas where different

00:57:13.440 --> 00:57:15.599
law enforcement agencies will have representatives

00:57:15.599 --> 00:57:18.179
and they're you're able to blast out messages

00:57:18.179 --> 00:57:20.880
among many, many law enforcement agencies very

00:57:20.880 --> 00:57:24.039
quickly. So I put together like a little arrest

00:57:24.039 --> 00:57:27.639
package on Clark, it had a wanted poster that

00:57:27.639 --> 00:57:31.500
I made for him. It had, you know, the warrant.

00:57:31.849 --> 00:57:34.929
it had kind of his basic details on who he was

00:57:34.929 --> 00:57:36.969
who he associated with what kind of cars he might

00:57:36.969 --> 00:57:41.329
be driving and I blasted this out to every single

00:57:41.329 --> 00:57:43.530
law enforcement agency in Southern, California

00:57:43.530 --> 00:57:47.570
LAPD Riverside Sheriff's Office San Bernardino

00:57:47.570 --> 00:57:51.090
Sheriff's Office local police and you know you

00:57:51.090 --> 00:57:55.909
kind of do that with a bit of a you know, maybe

00:57:55.909 --> 00:57:59.699
a shyness because you're like hey Among all of

00:57:59.699 --> 00:58:02.039
the drug dealers and bank robbers and murderers

00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:04.860
you guys are looking for Here's here's an eagle

00:58:04.860 --> 00:58:06.920
trafficker. You might want to keep your eyes

00:58:06.920 --> 00:58:12.000
open for credit, but you know what? To my surprise

00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:15.840
the local fugitive units like LAPD has a fugitive

00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:18.539
unit most of the sheriff's department have fugitive

00:58:18.539 --> 00:58:21.260
units that look for people who have active warrants

00:58:21.260 --> 00:58:24.019
and Those guys were super interested in this

00:58:24.019 --> 00:58:27.860
case. I mean they were fascinated by this case

00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:31.559
And I will never forget your reaction when I

00:58:31.559 --> 00:58:36.519
called you, I believe it was 2013. I had sent

00:58:36.519 --> 00:58:39.320
out the messages and basically I got a phone

00:58:39.320 --> 00:58:41.619
call from the head of the San Bernardino County

00:58:41.619 --> 00:58:45.059
Sheriff's Office SWAT team. And he told me, hey,

00:58:45.099 --> 00:58:48.099
we've been looking for your guy and we noticed

00:58:48.099 --> 00:58:50.860
that a license, one of the license plates you

00:58:50.860 --> 00:58:53.320
sent us has been popping up on a license plate

00:58:53.320 --> 00:58:56.980
reader at the local courthouse. We followed we

00:58:56.980 --> 00:58:59.760
waited and we followed that car. We waited for

00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:03.219
it. We followed that car and We saw a woman go

00:59:03.219 --> 00:59:06.099
into an apartment and come out again and when

00:59:06.099 --> 00:59:08.119
she walked down the street We kind of stopped

00:59:08.119 --> 00:59:11.300
her and we found out it was Kadura Clark's girlfriend

00:59:11.300 --> 00:59:14.139
and he was living in the apartment so basically

00:59:14.139 --> 00:59:17.500
the SWAT team took our warrant and hit that apartment

00:59:17.500 --> 00:59:20.619
and They arrested Kadura Clark on I think it

00:59:20.619 --> 00:59:24.059
was May 30th 2013 and I remember when I called

00:59:24.059 --> 00:59:29.090
you and you were like What? The San Bernardino

00:59:29.090 --> 00:59:31.889
Sheriff's Office SWAT team just arrested Kadoura

00:59:31.889 --> 00:59:36.449
Clark. That was that was a pretty fun day. Yeah.

00:59:37.010 --> 00:59:39.510
Do you remember? Do you remember getting that

00:59:39.510 --> 00:59:43.150
call from me? I do. Well, oddly enough, it's

00:59:43.150 --> 00:59:49.289
you know, that was my son's birthday. And I thought,

00:59:49.449 --> 00:59:51.130
hey, you know, what a perfect day, you know,

00:59:51.130 --> 00:59:54.900
I mean, you know. Kadur is my son's birthday

00:59:54.900 --> 00:59:56.860
and Kadur Clark gets arrested, you know. Yeah,

00:59:56.860 --> 00:59:59.619
no kidding. So we finally get him into custody

00:59:59.619 --> 01:00:02.920
and he's processed down here in Southern California

01:00:02.920 --> 01:00:05.519
is kind of nice because they sheriff's office

01:00:05.519 --> 01:00:07.840
arrested him. Then the marshals took him over

01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:10.420
to the jail. We didn't even have to like physically

01:00:10.420 --> 01:00:14.159
deal with him. Right. What was so what was the

01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:16.780
outcome then in Southern California was he was

01:00:16.780 --> 01:00:18.940
obviously he's indicted. Did he plead or go to

01:00:18.940 --> 01:00:24.019
trial on that part? So. He ended up pleading

01:00:24.019 --> 01:00:29.119
guilty. Um, I mean, we had an airtight case against

01:00:29.119 --> 01:00:34.360
him. Yeah. You know, during grand jury in doing

01:00:34.360 --> 01:00:38.820
subpoenas, we had gotten the FedEx video from

01:00:38.820 --> 01:00:43.480
inside the store. No way he's saying that it's

01:00:43.480 --> 01:00:46.559
not me. I mean, yeah, there's so many other cool

01:00:46.559 --> 01:00:48.460
aspects to this case We haven't had a chance

01:00:48.460 --> 01:00:50.719
to talk about like that surveillance video from

01:00:50.719 --> 01:00:53.000
the FedEx store showing him drop off the package,

01:00:53.019 --> 01:00:56.760
right? Right. It's pretty good stuff. So We had

01:00:56.760 --> 01:00:59.880
such great evidence against him. So what was

01:00:59.880 --> 01:01:03.260
it? So what was the outcome of the Southern California

01:01:03.260 --> 01:01:05.900
case? Well, they he ended up pleading guilty

01:01:05.900 --> 01:01:09.699
to the one count of the false labeling charge

01:01:09.699 --> 01:01:16.059
Okay, still a felon which Yeah, and so um But

01:01:16.059 --> 01:01:18.980
there was I would to my surprise there was no

01:01:18.980 --> 01:01:24.360
jail time But so he ended up doing three years

01:01:24.360 --> 01:01:28.900
of supervised probation, okay So and he got a

01:01:28.900 --> 01:01:32.619
hundred hours of community service, okay So,

01:01:32.619 --> 01:01:36.659
you know any subsequent evidence of him continuing

01:01:36.659 --> 01:01:41.159
to kill or traffic in eagle parts You know I

01:01:41.159 --> 01:01:48.099
don't know because It was not shortly after that

01:01:48.099 --> 01:01:52.780
maybe a what a year and a half after that that

01:01:52.780 --> 01:01:57.480
I Ended up transferring to FLETC. Mm -hmm. So

01:01:57.480 --> 01:02:00.860
yeah, I mean, you know He was still been on probation.

01:02:01.599 --> 01:02:04.639
Yeah Or at least during his probationary period

01:02:04.639 --> 01:02:10.320
I I ended up well you ended up leaving 2015 Going

01:02:10.320 --> 01:02:13.420
after going overseas and then I left to go to

01:02:13.420 --> 01:02:17.920
FLETC. So you and I both left Region one or at

01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:20.980
least region eight at that time now We never

01:02:20.980 --> 01:02:23.380
heard about him again after that though. He never

01:02:23.380 --> 01:02:26.780
popped up on anybody's radar screen You know,

01:02:26.780 --> 01:02:29.219
I was in I remained in Southern, California till

01:02:29.219 --> 01:02:32.380
2015 and then in 2020 I came back until 2022

01:02:32.380 --> 01:02:36.070
when I retired and Yeah, we never he never popped

01:02:36.070 --> 01:02:38.250
up on our radar screen again. So I don't know,

01:02:38.250 --> 01:02:41.530
as far as I know, Sean, you, you shut him down.

01:02:43.469 --> 01:02:45.690
Yeah, either that or COVID got him. I don't know.

01:02:47.150 --> 01:02:51.170
I mean, I mean, one upper respiratory disease

01:02:51.170 --> 01:02:57.400
would have taken that man out. I mean, he's I

01:02:57.400 --> 01:02:59.380
don't know. I don't know what happened to him.

01:02:59.400 --> 01:03:01.400
That's an interesting concept. That's actually

01:03:01.400 --> 01:03:03.400
an interesting note to end on, Sean, because

01:03:03.400 --> 01:03:08.039
we're just about out of time. But I think that

01:03:08.039 --> 01:03:10.719
he didn't go to jail on that second one, which

01:03:10.719 --> 01:03:12.940
is a little surprising, but it was a harsher

01:03:12.940 --> 01:03:16.079
sentence. And he didn't pop up on the radar screen

01:03:16.079 --> 01:03:17.559
again, whether it was because he learned his

01:03:17.559 --> 01:03:20.239
lesson or because of COVID. I don't know. But

01:03:20.239 --> 01:03:24.059
I hope he learned his lesson. We'll just assume

01:03:24.059 --> 01:03:26.969
he learned his lesson. And I hope he's alive

01:03:26.969 --> 01:03:30.690
and well. Yeah, me too. But Sean, I appreciate

01:03:30.690 --> 01:03:34.070
you coming on to tell us the story. Eagle trafficking

01:03:34.070 --> 01:03:36.449
or feathers, trafficking in eagle feathers is

01:03:36.449 --> 01:03:38.409
not something that a lot of people think about.

01:03:38.730 --> 01:03:42.030
It still goes on. It still happens. There is

01:03:42.030 --> 01:03:46.250
some illegal activity going on among the powwows

01:03:46.250 --> 01:03:51.090
with people illegally selling feathers. So it's

01:03:51.090 --> 01:03:52.809
something the US Fish and Wildlife Service is

01:03:52.809 --> 01:03:55.550
always looking at and always aware of. I appreciate

01:03:55.550 --> 01:03:59.750
you coming on to tell the story. And it's great

01:03:59.750 --> 01:04:01.409
to see you again. Thank you so much for being

01:04:01.409 --> 01:04:04.710
on the show. I love it, Ed. Thanks. I love being

01:04:04.710 --> 01:04:07.670
on here. Great to see you. Fantastic. All right,

01:04:07.670 --> 01:04:09.869
everybody. Thanks for joining us for this week's

01:04:09.869 --> 01:04:11.829
episode of Nature's Secret Service. If you want

01:04:11.829 --> 01:04:14.670
more information about Sean's case, you can find

01:04:14.670 --> 01:04:17.090
it on the website at naturesecretservice .com.

01:04:17.530 --> 01:04:19.789
Thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time.

01:04:20.369 --> 01:04:22.190
Nature's Secret Service is written and produced

01:04:22.190 --> 01:04:24.889
by me, Ed Newcomer. and is co -produced by the

01:04:24.889 --> 01:04:28.090
DHTV team here at California State University

01:04:28.090 --> 01:04:30.650
Dominguez Hills. Follow us on social media and

01:04:30.650 --> 01:04:32.929
connect with us online at naturessecretservice

01:04:32.929 --> 01:04:33.570
.com.