Hey guys, if you're enjoying our conversation
with Marie palladini You can see photos of Marie
on the job or you can look at documents related
to the case We're going to discuss today at nature's
secret service calm. Thanks for listening Okay,
everybody, listen up. Here we go. I'm Ed Newcomer.
I'm the host of Nature's Secret Service, the
podcast that puts you in the room with the men
and women of wildlife law enforcement. Last week,
we had a great episode with Marie Palladini.
It was so good, we have to split it into two.
So we're back with Marie today to finish hearing
her story about how she almost single -handedly
saved the American alligator. Last week, when
we wrapped up, you were telling us how you were
a brand new agent straight out of the Academy
and dropped right into the Special Operations
Unit to work on an alligator trafficking case.
So you're in SOU and then so what happens? They
ship you to Louisiana? So I go to Louisiana to
meet AJ. And what's AJ like? Describe AJ. AJ
is... I assume he's a typical informant. Well,
I don't know. You know... Personality wise, yes.
But AJ, well, yeah, he's a typical format. But
when I think about him, I spent a couple weeks
with him. He's the kind of guy that if you're
not talking to him about the actual crime we're
committing or he's committing, he's kind of OK.
You could have a beer with him, I guess. Kind
of a handsome man, actually, in a rugged way.
obviously, um, outdoorsy. He lived in the marsh.
Um, he was kind of crude, you know, I don't know
if he ever showered, you know, that kind of guy.
Um, had an accent, very much a Cajun or Creole
type accent from living in the marsh in Louisiana.
But he was very, very savvy. He was the kind
of guy that if you had to have an informant and
work with him, you knew he was going to do what
you needed to do to get the job done. That's
interesting. He wasn't going to flake out on
you, right? Which is a problem with informants,
as you and I both know. Well, I resisted. I could
never. I watched you work with informants during
the time we worked together and I worked for
you. I couldn't. understand how you get the patients
to do it. I couldn't stand working with informants.
They drove me crazy. It's hard. Yeah. I mean,
why are they informants? They're dirt balls.
I mean, they're people that, you know. Most of
them. Most of them. Not all of them. So, but,
you know, yeah, I don't want to generalize too
much. But they generally don't follow your directions.
No. It's like herding cats. No. Yeah. And you
got to kind of, it does take patience, but it
also takes the, to me, I had to tell myself,
well, He knows this way better than I do. This
is his life. He has lived his life committing
this type of crime. I have not. I'm learning
it, but is it ever gonna be natural for me like
it is for him? No. So I'm gonna rely on this
informant. So AJ physically looked like somebody
that lived in the marsh. He had cold black hair.
He always wore a black t -shirt, you know, just
kind of that stereotypical guy that I hate to
say, use that word, but he is. You know, if he
walks in my office as a Fish and Wildlife agent,
I'm thinking, okay, he wants to turn somebody
in. Probably drove a pickup truck, no doubt.
Probably. So I think he did. But yeah, so they
wanted me to meet AJ to see, well, can you do
this? Because we don't know how long this is
going to take. Basically, the outline of the
operation was you and AJ are going to get the
alligator skins. a couple hundred of them, you're
gonna transport them in a van that the government's
gonna provide you with. You're gonna drive it
up to New York from New Orleans and you're gonna
deliver them to Kelly whenever he tells you where
and when. And then once you deliver them, you
don't know how long you're gonna be there till
you get paid. Because the deal has to go through
before AJ gets paid. all the evidence is gathered
to prove that this is a conspiracy. They know
what they're doing and they're sending everything
overseas. That's why you need to be there. And
that's why I had to be there. Got it. So they
sent me to New Orleans. This happened very quickly.
I mean, I got out of the Academy I think in,
I don't know, August and this was in October.
Yeah, your head must have been spinning. It was.
But I think in a way it was spinning because
I really, I really didn't know what I was doing.
I mean, I knew enough from the Academy. But I
didn't realize how dangerous it was, I think.
When I think about hindsight. I'll bet you did.
But you were young, and you were confident. Yeah.
Yeah, I just wanted to catch them. I mean, that's
kind of what it was. So the focus was there.
But so I go to New Orleans, I meet AJ, and we
come up with this plan. Dave Hall helped. But
the plan had to be pretty simple. as a cover.
But first of all, they wanted me to make sure
I could tolerate him. Which was fine, it was
okay. Yeah, because there has to be some camaraderie
there and nobody's going to believe you're his
girlfriend, right? Right. I mean, yeah. You're
going to have to fake it to make it. Actually.
Actually, that's true. That was the beauty of
youth at the time, too, right? And I was kind
of like, oh, this is fine. So I met him. We had
coffee or whatever we did, had a beer. And I
told Dave Hall, this is going to be fine. So
then we put together our story, which had to
be very, very tight because we were dealing with
basic people that who had committed a lot of
crimes. And they were very savvy and on to what
we might be doing. So we drove up. So I met him.
It was fine. We made our plan. We put skins in
the in the van and we drove up from Louisiana
and we went to New York. We had to stop in the
way halfway and we made calls. Okay. Basically.
So you stayed overnight? Yes. How does that work?
Couple times. How does that work? Actually more
than a couple times. Okay, so I'm sure everybody
listening is going to want to know, how does
this work when a female undercover agent is with
a dirt bag informant? Yeah. And you got to stay
overnight. And you get no training in this. And
why are you doing it that way, right? Like, why
not get separate rooms? And the answer is somebody
might be surveilling you, right? Exactly. Yeah.
Yeah. So we had to, we drove up from New Orleans.
and had to stop in New Jersey, I'm sorry where
it was, somewhere halfway. Anyway, we stopped
there and there was a surveillance team with
us. So they were in the hotel as well. And then
we did stay in the same room. The first night
was very, very awful. Horrible, strange. But
it was a hotel room and there were two of those
beds, like two double beds, so that night wasn't
too bad. But the thing of it is, and this goes
with youth, I was pretty tolerant of, you know,
where I slept. It wasn't like I just got out
of college where, you know, I did live in a nice
house. I never had all the luxuries we have today.
So this was a little easier for me to be with
him overnight. And I knew the other agents were
next door. So that was kind of okay interesting
and the first night was fine I mean I didn't
sleep much but I knew that the next day we were
gonna be meeting the bad guys I see so we drove
we stayed in the hotel was not a big problem
We called the bad guys and met them the next
day in New Jersey. They gave us a meeting point
and the guy Kelly's partner was a guy named green
black. Uh -huh, and he gave us instructions along
the way we We had to make sure we had enough
skins. We did all that we stopped to maybe replenish
them I think we did that you needed more to make
the deal to make the deal work the way it was
supposed to work We needed more skins to make
it as he'd done in the past and we didn't have
enough So we had to stop and the fish and wildlife
gave us more that had been confiscated and been
you know They were done. They were property now.
Yeah So we had a realistic looking load. Okay,
I think there were Maybe a couple hundred. Nice.
Yeah. So we delivered them. We got to New Jersey
and the instructions were to meet us at such
and such a point, which we did. So we met this
colleague, lack of a better word, co -conspirator
of Kelly named Greenblatt. So Greenblatt, Billy
was his name. Billy Greenblatt met us and told
us where to drive to. He followed us in the van
and we went to Kelly's store. Kelly owned a discount
clothing store. Because Kelly, besides dealing
in alligator skins, dealt in hijacked truck goods.
You know, he was part of a whole group of guys
that would hijack trucks, take the clothes, and
then sell them in his shop. Interesting. Yeah,
he was kind of a small mobster. And not uncommon,
right? You know, if you're involved in one crime,
you're likely going to be involved in others,
because in the end, it is about money. Yes. And
this is why I think, you know, even sometimes
agents underestimate the danger, because, you
know, They they lull themselves into this idea
that well, this guy's just involved in wildlife
crime. He's not gonna hurt me But this guy's
a hardcore criminal. Yes, and important point
before we went in AJ said you can't have your
guide and badge with you. Oh, wow. Yeah, normally
explain that too because I did undercover work
in my career, too Sometimes I carried a weapon
when I was undercover And sometimes I didn't.
I assume you were the same, yeah? Exactly. Depending
on the situation. The band is one thing that
probably I... in most times when I was working
undercover, I did not. Yeah, I never carried
my badge when I was undercover. No. But the gun
thing kind of concerned me because I knew that
these, the profile of these people was that they
were pretty dangerous. And I knew that they were
probably carrying a firearm. Right. But he said
that AJ told me, Kelly will go through your purse.
He will look at things. He will go through your
bag. We're going to be staying near him or with
him. It's not going to be a situation where...
he would take it lightly. If he found something
like that, he would know you were an agent. So
that's kind of was a decision I had to make where
I had to not take it in with me. And Dave Hall
and the other agents, you know, left it up to
me pretty much. Not really. But I pretty much
said, OK, I won't take it. And it's funny because
later in your career, you probably know that's
one of those examples where if an informant can
kind of sneak the. power dynamic change on you
and that's one of the things you always got to
be on guard on with an informant they're not
in charge right ever but they'll try to take
charge and they'll try to like influence you
and convince you that they know best and I guarantee
later in your career you probably would have
been like oh screw you I'm gonna take my No,
because I had a recorder in my bag. So, you know,
that's the same idea. I don't think AJ knew about
that. You know, but yeah, I mean, it's you're
exactly right. And that's a learning process,
which is kind of interesting to me that the higher
ups went with it, you know, because I was depending
on them to guide me and give me advice. So that.
It happened. No gun, no bat. But there was a
very, very heavy, excuse me, surveillance on
us. I felt pretty comfortable. How many agents
did they have on you? They had probably eight
or 10. Wow, that's a good cover team. From New
York, yeah, from customs. Because it was a joint
case because of the import export issues. So
we did work with the United States Customs at
the time. And this is interesting because this
is not the days of cell phones and micro recorders.
When you say you had a recorder in your bag,
Tell the listeners what kind of recorders we
were using in the 70s. Well, in the 70s we were
using pretty big cassette recorders that didn't
have great Audio aid and they were heavy and
they were real -to -real tapes. Yeah, you know
Were they called negros? Yeah Dave Hall actually
Had some funding where he did buy a nagra recorder,
which they were very expensive They were four
or five thousand dollars each because the technology
was was so good and they were probably about
the size of a big cell phone Okay, you know,
so still pretty small Yeah, and you could I could
put it in my purse and it but it was real -to
-real and I'll never forget Dave Hall sang to
me after we came out of this, did you remember
to turn it on? I'm like, yes. So not all the
time though, because all the time it wasn't going
to be convenient to have it. So sometimes tape
runs out. That's right. And more importantly,
as you and I know, sometimes you forget to turn
it off. Correct. And then you say things you
don't want on there. You say things, you know,
you make jokes about supervisors or whatever.
So I'm not gonna have that happen. Or you go
to the bathroom and your recorder's still on,
yeah. So it happens though, right? But yeah,
so I mean, I'm not sure how much more you want
me to go into, but we actually did, once we got
to New York, there was a delay in the transaction
taking place. And that was because of a big storm,
right? Yes, supposedly there was some big northeastern
and then part of the deal fell through. So, but
we, AJ and I, stayed in Kelly's cottage that
was somewhere off of Long Island. He lived in
an area called Breezy Point. He lived in a pretty
nice area in Long Island, which we had gone to
his house. Kelly did. Kelly did, I'm sorry. And
Kelly then put us up in his summer cottage, which
was kind of a dump. So you had to do another
overnight with AJ. Oh, I had to do over almost
a week. Oh my gosh. While we were waiting for
the transaction to close. Oh, a nightmare. So
it was a nightmare. So what happened? Well, we
know what happened. Well, remember, he's he's
AJ. He's not, you know, one of my colleagues
professionally. Yeah. So we get in the cottage
and remember, we have cell phones and pretty
much Kelly dropped us off and said, OK, we didn't
have the van either. The van was left in front
of. his business. With the skin still in it?
With the skins in it. So like his storage, mobile
storage for his skin? Yeah, for a couple of days
and then it moved. But he took us, we went to
dinner or something and then he dropped us off
and said, I'll pick you up in the morning. So
we were in this cottage, AJ and I, and you know,
it was time to go to bed for the night. Basically,
there's one bed and I looked at AJ and I said,
okay, you know, this is the deal. Meanwhile,
in my mind, I'm thinking, he knows I don't have
a gun. But anyway, we get in bed and this is
a little uncomfortable for me, but yeah, we get
in bed and next thing I know, AJ's arm is near
me. He's trying to touch me and I'm cringing.
So I basically put an end to it as best I could.
And I said, this is not gonna happen. We're gonna
blow the whole case. We just cannot do this.
And you know, believe it or not, I don't know.
I don't think I scared him because I don't think
I did. I think maybe he because I say he kind
of had a kind of a little different personality
in some ways. I'm thinking maybe he thought about
what was going to happen in the long run and
he backed off. At that time, we didn't know we
were going to be there as long as we were. So
maybe he just thought, oh, well, one night, big
deal. But he did back off. I didn't sleep. He
went outside. I remember this is so weird. He
wore these black t -shirts. Yeah. He went outside.
There was some kind of spick it or outside thing.
He washed his t -shirt. What came back in the
room and put the t -shirt over the lampshade
in the corner to drop. Like, is this what he
does in the marsh? But I remember that. It's
funny how certain things visually had nothing
to do with the case. Didn't matter. But that
was a personality thing. He did. And he never
hit you again. No. That's good. No, that is good.
And I think you might be underestimating your
ability to intimidate. I've seen you intimidate
very, very big, big people, big guys, right?
I've seen it with my own eyes. So you do have
the ability to turn on that law enforcement voice,
that law enforcement stare. And even with your
small frame, I've seen you back people down pretty
effectively. Well, thank you. Thank you for reminding
me. That's true. I'd be your partner any day.
Yeah. But the other thing is, and this is what's
interesting about being a special agent and being
dedicated to the mission. I really wanted this
case to be successful. I had something to prove
as a new agent. I also had something to prove
for them hiring women. I mean, I wasn't really
waving that flag right then. I don't think I
was that forward of a thinker. But I knew that
this was an opportunity to really, really catch
people doing something very wrong to natural
resources and actually stop this enterprise.
But we couldn't mess it up with something stupid
like an informant putting the move on me. Exactly.
And blowing the whole thing. So I really wanted
him to not think he could do this again so that
we could move forward with the case. Right. And
we probably had a discussion about that. I don't
really remember that part. I do remember, you
know, having to stop him from, you know, being
a guy, basically. So so, yeah, we moved on. And
the next few days I hung around the. Discount
clothing shop. With Kelly's wife. Yeah, there's
a family operation Kelly's wife was named Barbara.
She was there She would ask me questions all
the time about how I knew AJ And you know, we
had a really we had a good cover. It was short
and sweet I worked as a server back then they
were kind of waitress. I got a job in the bayou
I mean in the French Quarter and AJ has been
a bouncer Which fit and he had been actually
he had done stuff like that So that worked and
I had actually been a waitress, you know through
my years in college So that kind of worked out
and we had a name of a place where we met and
kind of left it at that The best cover stories
are always the ones that are closest to the truth
exactly So it sounds like she was testing you
a little bit. She was definitely right. It wasn't
just curiosity She was probing your cover. Yeah,
and you know what else? Interestingly, I was
thinking about she asked me about the van. Really?
Yes, because the van was mine. Ah. That was part
of the cover too. So, how much did I pay for
the van? Wow. Stupid question. Uh -huh. The only
question, the only reason you'd ask that is to,
you know, test you. Uh -huh. And, you know, it's
funny because that's something we actually talked
about beforehand as part of our cover. Good.
Because the Fish and Wildlife had it registered
in cold plates. It was under my name in Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania, I think. So basically, I told her
a number, I don't remember, like $900 or something
that we had agreed upon. And later on, I found
out, not during the week that we were there,
that Kelly asked AJ the same thing about the
van. No kidding. Yeah. So they were testing us.
Totally. Yeah. Testing our cover. And he remembered,
you know, and that was fine. It's hers, and yeah,
she let me use it. Speaking of the van, they
did move it after the second day. And this is
really sleazy. Greenblatt, remember I said, was
Jack Kelly's partner. Right. Greenblatt took
the van to, are you ready? Yeah. Kelly's mother's
house in Brooklyn. Whoa. Drove it there. And
the surveillance team saw him do all this. Unloaded
the skins, or they had repackaged them in boxes.
Okay. Or containers. That, wooden boxes that
were labeled machine parts. Because they were
getting ready to put him on a ship to go somewhere.
Yes, so he he unloaded them I think there were
four or five of these Wooden containers and put
them in the backyard of his mother's house. Nice
nice guy, right? Yeah, right. So that's where
they were stored Take let mom go down They were
stored until they actually moved them to the
docks later on. There's no honor among thieves,
right? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, so that's incredible,
you know thinking about Kelly's wife and Kelly
testing your cover, you know, a lot, I don't
know how it was with you, but every undercover
case I ever did, everybody always questioned
me, right? They always, at some point, they asked
me if I was a cop or a game warden or something,
or they did similar tactics like what you're
describing. And it's not. necessarily because
they think, I don't think anyway. I'd be interested
to see what you think about this. I don't think
it's because they think you're a cop. They just
think everybody's a cop because they're bad guys,
right? So they're always, and if you give them
just something to reassure them, they'll be fine.
Now, I agree with you. I think in all the years
I did undercover cases, there was always a question
or a test. And I think as a new agent, It doesn't
mean you're burned. No, I think you tend to might
think you are as a new agent. But then you learn,
oh no, this is just part of the whole deal. It
happens all the time. And you learn what works
for you to kind of repel that. I never thought
that her asking me how much the van was, was
any sort of... collaboration between her and
Kelly to kind of check out who we were but it
was but it was yeah I found that I thought of
that later there were probably other things that
we didn't think yeah for sure there's other for
sure there's other stuff that happened that didn't
dawn on you that they were so the thing that
was great about the case was after the deal finally
closed where Kelly made the actual transfer and
they actually were able to sell the Alligators
to the to the clappish company which was Meg
imports a lot of people involved here But they
were the next level so you have AJ and then you
have Kellyanne Greenblatt And then you have Jack
clappish and his company Meg import which were
shipping the skins overseas So when that finally
came to fruition it was over a week. I left before
they actually transferred the skins and there
was some communication I'd go to a payphone and
call the sack office because there was no phone.
Yeah well I was gonna get to that too because
yeah with no cell phone no when you're updating
your cover team you can't walk up to them on
the street you're like running to the closest
payphone right? There was a little pizza place
around the corner from the discount clothing
shop. And if I was hanging around in the discount
clothing shop while AJ was out doing something
with Kelly, I would go around the corner and
say, I'm gonna go get a slice of pizza or a Coke
or whatever. And I'd make a call to the... Sac
office there in New York and I tell them what
was going on and you know, generally speaking
they say oh, yeah We got you and we got the surveillance
team, you know We're there and this is what's
happening So one time though, I called and they
I said hi Jack was Jack Downs. He was the agent
in charge I said well, it looks like the skins
are gonna be moved or whatever. Whatever was
coming up gave your update Yeah, I tried to give
him as much as I could because I couldn't really
record everything. Yeah, you're not recording
everything and One day when I called, I almost
lost my breath, because he basically said, Marie,
where are you? I'm like the same place I always
am. The covered team lost you? Yeah, because
they had switched the team, and they lost me,
and they weren't sure. But they kind of got back
in gear. But that was kind of scary, thinking
that the surveillance team. was not around. Yep.
I've been in those situations too, where they
either lose you or they're, they're close, but
they're not that close to you. Right. And if
something happened, you're on your own for a
few probably minutes before they get to you,
which could mean a lot. That could be, it could
be very deadly. It could be serious. So this
was, you know, a bustling city, but still it
was a little discomforting. So, so, but I did
that. And then one day when I called, They told
me to make up a story Because it looked like
the skins are gonna be moving it now how they
knew that or that I don't know something else
going on. Yes So I did okay, you know, I basically
said oh, you know, I gotta go back to Pittsburgh
family issue or whatever and AJ's gonna stick
around here and fly back after the deal is done
and then I said wink wink. I'll see you in New
Orleans Kiss kiss So I left, and then I met with
the agents and the prosecutor. But up until that
time, I had gotten enough information to prove
the case as far as what Kelly was doing and the
information about Clapish. Nice. The Clapish
case came to a close more so from the surveillance
once they saw the actual containers moved to
the docks. Right. And that's when they were they
moved in and arrested everybody. So what happened
to these guys? Well, I have to look at my notes.
So this case, and the reason the reason I think
this is this is kind of a fun thing to talk about
is up until this time, you know, most of the
cases fish and wildlife investigated and enforced
were pretty much misdemeanors. They weren't doing
a lot of the international smuggling type cases.
And this was Almost a case of first impression
and basically what happened was Well, like I
said before there were more than 2 ,500 hides
over the couple years of the investigation I
wasn't on the last part of it which basically
clinched it. Yeah, you're cleaning up the whole
yes the whole over chain Correct, there was a
two year period where there was intelligence
investigations, but this sewed it all up, so
to speak. So basically what happened was, and
the value of these skins back then was over a
million dollars street value, which I did a little
math with. Yeah, what's that worth now? Today
it'd be like five, like five million dollars
worth of alligator hides. So the men were basically,
they were pretty much, well Kelly, The person
that I investigated with A .J. Kelly was actually
pled guilty to conspiracy to violate the Endangered
Species Act. Okay, felony. Yes, felony. The Endangered
Species Act is not, but the conspiracy is. Conspiracy
is, right. And he got, I can't remember exactly
what he received. I don't know if I gave you
that. He go to jail? I'm sorry? Did he go to
jail? Yeah, he did go to jail and he was fined.
Yeah. As was Greenblatt. Greenblatt did not go
to jail. He was on probation and was fined a
lot. Okay. And the other importer, I mean the
exporter, Meg Imports and Clapish, they basically
were pled guilty to conspiracy to violate the
Lacey Act. Which is a felony. Another law. Another
felony. That the Fish and Wildlife enforced and
they went to jail as well. Yeah. And the company
was fined. I think like $90 ,000, the company.
Wow, okay. So yeah, so I think it brought down
their operation finally, and... Do you remember
any evidence they started up again? No. You killed
it. No, it killed it. Yeah, that's good. And
I think not too long after that, I don't know
this, I'd have to check with the biologist, the
species started to come back. Yeah. Because now
if anybody's in Florida on a golf course, they're
going to see an alligator. All those people that
lose their little dogs to alligators can curse
you for that one. They're not happy about that.
So and the law has made provisions for people
to raise them in captivity. And so the skins
are still available, which is now they're legal.
Yeah. Well, it gave the species chance to recover.
And then they can be used sustainably, right?
Yeah. And there's an interesting footnote to
this about AJ. and this past that he made at
you. And you told me this story when we were
talking about, you know, prepping for this episode.
What happened to AJ a few years later? Yeah.
So AJ was one of those informants that the service
wanted to use on other operations because he
proved himself to be pretty valid. A good informant.
We know that he wouldn't be Great testifying
in court, of course, which is why you have an
agent with exactly which maybe I should have
said earlier Yeah, the fact that I was there
he might have been on the ground a lot But the
credibility of what happened and the evidence
and what I saw and what I could testify to We're
really kind of the clinchpin to basically Prosecute
100 % successful process. You're the professional
correct. Yeah He's the kind of the tool to you
exactly. So because he ended up doing a good
job on this particular case He was sought out
several years later. There was an investigation
going on in region one where I eventually was
assigned to in California. And it involved Northern
California and the Klamath River and the actually
salmon that were being poached by... Not necessarily
Native Americans, but actually people posing
as Native American, white man trying to take
advantage of the opportunity to salmon fish.
Because indigenous people do have rights and
white man does not. So there was an investigation
going on and basically the salmon were showing
up in stores in... Commercialization. Exactly,
in San Francisco, all over the nation, and there
were sometimes marks on them that showed they
were caught in nets. So there was kind of a suspicion
that we need to get more involved, not in just
what's being happened on the river, but in the
actual commercialization of the salmon once they're
taken from the river. So gee, this acts worth
their meaning again, and they decided, oh. We've
got this guy AJ. He's a chameleon. He can be
anywhere. He can fit in. So they hired him to
work the salmon fisheries case. And he did. He
was out on the river. He was working. And he
actually did a pretty good job. And then lo and
behold, I hear that he was arrested for rape
while he was working for the Fish and Wildlife
Service. That must have sent a shiver down your
spine, huh? Well, yes. And it was very... Well
besides it did send a shiver down my son like
whoa, but also it was kind of like Why did why
do you have to do this? I mean, you know, he
was he was kind of you know He's not a good guy
by a long shot But he was somebody that knew
how to tow the line and work with Fish and Wildlife
right and then he kind of went off and yeah I
don't know if he was ever convicted or if there
was some sort of plea agreement whatever happened
But I know that the Fish and Wildlife never used
him again. Yeah after that Well, I didn't mind
working with informants who were you know? law
-abiding people who wanted, who had information.
I hated working with informants who were dirtbags
because of stuff like this. They're not thinking
the way you and I think or the way law -abiding
citizens think, and yeah. No, no, and that's
the trade -off. It is. With informant type A
or informant type B, right? And usually informant
type A, the AJ type, are gonna get into the nitty
-gritty of the dirty part, but you have to be
able to tolerate that. Yeah. And that's hard.
I mean, that's pretty much what agents with DEA
have to do all the time. Oh, yeah. You know,
and different... Local police, LAPD. Yes, on
your focus. But, you know, sometimes with Fish
and Wildlife, we get somebody that's an informant,
and he's just mad because of a competitor. You
know, he may not really be a... Somebody that's
a career criminal in the sense of being a nasty
dirty person kind of yeah make sense I had some
good ones over the years. They were really good.
Yeah, in fact you you connected me with two of
the best I ever had a for caviar but I Had something
I couldn't stand and I very quickly stopped working.
You know what I mean? very quickly transitioned
into an undercover, you know So Marie on behalf
of the alligators. Thank you For the work that
you did, it's fascinating. There's so much more
to talk about. I want to have you back for sure
to tell other stories and talk about other things.
One thing that's funny, when you first talked
about when I came to the office, and this is
again another compliment to you. You said that
I had come and I was eager to do undercover work.
Your memory of that is not correct. When I came
out of the academy, I had decided I don't want
to do undercover work. I wanted to just do overt
cases. I wanted to flip, you know, flip the creds,
go out, do the interviews, do the investigations,
do the subpoenas and make the cases. Screw this
undercover work. Because when I was in the academy,
I learned it's a lot of work. I mean, it's a
lot of work. You're working weird hours and then
afterwards you have to write all these extra
reports, summarize audio. If you're running an
undercover business, you have to take care of
books. I didn't want to do it. But when I started
to work with you and you were talking about it
and you were encouraging me to do it and you
were showing me how to do it, I realized it's
an incredibly valuable tool and I had to do it.
And then I ended up loving it. So it's funny,
I did end up liking it but that was only because
I think I learned how to do it correctly, which
thank you for that. Well, you're welcome. It's
kind of a, I don't know. It's a nice combination.
I think that was one of the nice things about
working for Fish and Wildlife as well, once I
was no longer in SOU when I moved to California,
is you still have the luxury of working your
own undercover cases if you want. Yeah, if you
want to. You don't always have to be the, you
know, coat and tie person, you know, going to
do interviews. And it's a nice mix. For me...
Like I said, I enjoyed the undercover work, but
you're right, I didn't really get into the part
of when you do set up a business and you have
to have a cover and you have to have, so you
have to have all your ducks in a row, so to speak,
especially today because technology, it's so
easy for you to get caught, get burnt, for your
cover to get burnt as well. And you know, like
we're saying, if you spend a day with the bad
guys, The first four hours after you get home
you're writing a summary of that contact because
you got to do it while your memory's fresh and
then you got to transcribe your audio tapes and
well, it's just a nightmare. Yes, and you have
to kind of like cleanse yourself with them all
day exactly. So it's it's a whole It's a whole
different type of work. Oh my gosh. We can do
a whole episode on that of how do you decompress
after spending all day with people that are not
your people. Right. Right. Because you go back
home and your spouse, your siblings, your brother,
sister, your neighbor, they expect you to go
back to being Marie Palladini. But you just spent
all day being a dirtbag. Yeah. Right. We're hanging
out with them. So you kind of need that time
to decompress. But maybe we'll do a whole episode
on that. That would be a good one. All right.
Thank you so much for joining us. Look forward
to seeing you guys next week. Thanks. Nature's
Secret Service is written and produced by me,
Ed Newcomer, and is co -produced by the DHTV
team here at California State University Dominguez
Hills. Follow us on social media and connect
with us online at naturessecretservice .com.