Before we get into this interview, I just wanted
to make note that this week's interview is just
between myself and Representative Pierce. My
co -host Adrian, I believe, got lost on his way
back from Philly, where he was attending the
Young Democrats of America conference. Adrian,
I told you to use a damn GPS. Anyway... This
week on Left Hold North, we have an interview
that I feel is a long time coming. This week
we are talking with North Carolina State House
Representative Rodney D. Pierce. Representative
Pierce represents North Carolina District 27,
so that's Northampton, Halifax, and Warren Counties,
in the northeastern part of the state, right
along the North Carolina -Virginia line. He is
a native of Halifax County and grew up in Roanoke
Rapids. And this is actually his first term after
defeating 20 -year incumbent Michael Ray. Representative
Pierce is an award -winning educator and has
taught many a social studies student. and has
served on the North Carolina Governor's Teacher
Advisory Committee. A strong advocate for affordable
health care, affordable housing, fully funded
education, and class mobility, Rodney Pierce
has become a strong advocate and representative
of the people of North Carolina District 27.
He currently sits on the Appropriations, General
Government Appropriations, Homeland Security,
Military Affairs, and Insurance Committees in
the General Assembly. Representative Pierce,
welcome to the show. Thank you for having me,
sir. Glad to be here. Glad to have you on. Now,
we, you know, just I guess in full transparency,
you and I know each other already. This isn't
one of those interviews where the person just
kind of got dropped in and we just start asking
them questions. Yeah, we have history. Yeah,
so I guess for the listeners at home, I... beginning
part of last year so 2024 i saw a like little
job posting saying hey we're looking for a campaign
manager to uh manage a state house primary i'm
like oh that could be cool i've never managed
a race before that that might be fun we'll see
what happens well what do you know um joined
uh the team pierce campaign and the rest is history
right yeah that's right That's right, man. I
tell people all the time, I said, there's no
way to describe being hugged up with CJ jumping
up and down. When that last precinct, when those
last numbers came in right before midnight. And
I said, we were just sitting there jumping up
and down. We won. We won. We won. There's something
I cherish for the rest of my life, man. And I
so appreciate you. and your work on my campaign,
man. I know I'm not a day at the beach. But like
I tell you all the time, man, I really appreciated
your patience in working with me because there
were so many things that I didn't know going
into this that you were more well -versed in.
And I just think we were a perfect combination
because the things that you were strong in. I
let you be strong again. Then the things that
I was strong in, you let me be strong. Yeah.
So again, I appreciate you again. Appreciate
you having me on today as well. Of course. No,
we're, I mean, I'm happy to have you on. You
know, it's a, this is a long time coming. I will
say it's a, I agree. You know, working on campaigns
is not easy to say the least, but it's, it's
always really nice to, you know, we'll get the
desired outcome. And then to then get to watch
the person that you're working for, working with
to see them go on and, you know, do great stuff
in whatever office it is. It's a very rewarding
thing to see. And I'm very lucky, very fortunate
to have been a part of it. I guess, however,
we should kind of give folks a little bit of
a little bit of background on you. So you, before
you started to run, before you got elected, you
were a teacher, middle school, social studies.
So I guess, just tell us a little bit about what
that was like and also just kind of how you ended
up going or deciding, hey, I'm no longer going
to teach social studies. I'm going to go live
it, essentially. Yes, sir. Well, I started teaching
in 2015, November of 2015, as a middle school
social studies teacher in Halifax County Schools.
That's the district that I actually graduated
from, as well as the district all three of my
children attend. And, you know, the first year,
which really wasn't a full school year, you know,
I came on in the latter part of the fall. The
first year, you're just trying to survive. That's
what I was always told. You know, you're just
trying to survive, trying to keep your head above
water. And then the second year, you know, you
get a little bit more comfortable. So the second
year that I was teaching, I started trying to
learn more about the profession, learn more in
terms of how to be a better teacher, look up
statistics, look at data. You know, and I'm a
social studies teacher, so that's what I need
to be doing anyway. And so I learned about the
underfunding of public education, particularly.
in the northeastern part of the state, learned
about some of the state policies that, you know,
weren't necessarily equitable, you know, they
were inequitable in terms of how many kids were
getting referred to, you know, academically and
intellectually gifted services or advanced placement
courses, the disciplinary issues in terms of
how those situations were handled, academic performance.
As the father of a black son, how black boys
were treated, because I used to have a lot of
young men come to my class, you know, when they
would get into it with another teacher and go
to Mr. Pierce's room, you know. So I just started
learning all of that stuff. And it made me more
politically aware because I said to myself, well,
who's in charge of these policies, these rules?
And so you go to your board of education, right?
You look at that and then you go a little higher.
And you go to your state level representatives
and you go to your federal. And what I learned
was that the state has more to do with public
education, namely funding public education in
North Carolina than the federal government does.
So that's when I really started paying more attention
to who are the people making these laws as a
pertaining education, who's sitting on the education
K -12 committee, who's sitting on the appropriations
committee, who are the chairs, you know, what
bills have been introduced. Things like that.
And it was last year. Namely, actually, no, it
was late 2023. I have been watching the state
representative for District 27 for a while. And
the reason that I jumped into the phrase, so
to speak, was because this guy was saying that
he was a Democrat, but was voting with Republicans,
you know, damn near 90 percent of the time. sometimes
more than members of their own party. And what
really got me incensed was that he was voting
to defund public education and send millions
and billions of dollars to private schools for
unaccountable, you know, vouchers. And, you know,
Halifax County Schools is a Leandro district.
We are one of the original plaintiffs. I was
a high school sophomore when that lawsuit was
filed. So, you know, that just kind of made it,
you know, even worse. I actually first ran for
public office in 2022, ran for the Halifax County
Schools Board of Education. Lost that by 34 votes,
finished fourth in the field of seven. Top three
vote getters were the winners. Excuse me, lost
by 33 votes. And as you know, decided to run
for the state house, won about 34 votes. As we
say, lucky God. Yeah, honestly, though, I will
say you mentioned. the Leandro case a second
ago. I know some folks might not necessarily
know what exactly the Leandro case is, but I
feel like it is, at least in my opinion, one
of the most important court cases in recent state
history, and it's still going on. So would you
mind just kind of layman's terms real quick to
explain that? Yes, sir. Well, in 1994, you had
five public school systems in. North Carolina,
Halifax County Schools, Hope County Schools,
Cumberland, Vance, Robinson County. They sued
the state of North Carolina for inequitable funding
for their school systems. They were, from what
I understand, they had to tax their residents
at a higher than average rate to make up for
the funding shortfall from the state. So they
sued the state in 1994. I believe the first decision
was in 1997. And they were basically saying,
hey. We find in favor of the plaintiffs. The
courts are basically saying we find in favor
of the plaintiffs. You know, there is a, you
know, the state constitution says this is a students
in North Carolina have the right to a sound basic
education, highly qualified teachers, highly
qualified administrators, thus and so, thus and
so. It actually was filed in Halifax County Superior
Court originally back in 1994. So I always tell
people, you know, Leandro is associated with
Hope because that's where Robert Leandro was
from. But I always associated more with Halifax
because that's where it was actually filed. And
we are an original plaintiff. But I think the
next decision may have been in 2002 or 2004.
It was in the 2000s, if I remember correctly.
And it basically was an affirmation of the earlier
ruling. Then there was another ruling when that
was in 2022. If I'm not mistaken, and it was
another affirmation of the original ruling, you
know, Governor Cooper put together a sound basic
for excuse me, sound basic education for every
child, basically a Leandro committee at the state
level. West Ed was paid to put together a Leandro
plan. And there have been just bits and pieces
of that that have been enacted over the past
several years by the G .A. has never been fully
funded. And in one of the town halls that I had
earlier this year, my district. We had Larry
Armstrong, who was the Halifax County Schools
Board of Education attorney in 1994, and is still
the board attorney now in 2025. And he said the
money that has been spent towards private school
vouchers in North Carolina could have fully funded
the Leandro plan by now. Jeez. So that is the
Leandro case in a nutshell. It started off as
a low wealth funding issue. for those counties
that have low -wealth education funding issue,
and now it's become more of a civil rights issue
because North Carolina is the only state in the
country where our Declaration of Rights and our
state constitution gives you the right to a free
and uniform system of public schools, and it's
the duty of the state to maintain that right.
So essentially, they had the initial court case,
the initial ruling, really, in the mid-'90s.
And then at least twice it's been reaffirmed
saying, hey, this is still the case. These kids
are still entitled to this good education. And
yet nothing has happened, unfortunately. At least
not really. It seems like it's one of those things
where just more and more money is being sent
to school vouchers instead of public education.
Yeah. Now, I will say one thing that you mentioned
before on the campaign trail, and I should know
I was there, is, you know, you've talked about
your area of the state and just kind of that
whole general area. You know, you call it like
the you call it the neglected northeast. So,
like, why? Why is that a particular moniker?
Well, if you look, you know, I'm a historian,
CJ, so I got to take it back. So Northeastern
North Carolina, we're talking Halifax, Northampton,
Warren, Gertie, Hertford, Edgecombe. You know,
these were counties that had some of the highest
enslaved populations percentage wise in the state,
you know, right at the cusp of the Civil War.
When you go to the 1860 census, some of the wealthiest
counties in North Carolina, Warren County was
the wealthiest county in North Carolina in 1860.
Yes. Now, today is one of the poorest, you know,
it's a tier one county. And then when you look
at emancipation, then you go through, you know,
late 19th century, early 20th century, you know,
you see black people in these counties literally
having to fight for their rights, fight for the
rights they were supposed to be given. You know,
when they acquired citizenship, you see a bevy
of court cases in the mid to late. 20th century
being filed in this area, you know, education
rights, voting rights, property rights. I mean,
all of these things you see these, you know,
black folks who still make up a majority in most
of the counties or at least 40 some percent of
the population still fighting for, you know,
these rights, still fighting for equity. And
at the same time, you're seeing the economies
of these places decline. Over the past several
decades, manufacturing jobs are leaving. You
see a lot of fast food places coming in, but
you don't really see industry like that. Industry
that will be transformative, let me put it that
way. You have an aging population, and this is
no affront to seniors, but you have an aging
population. Your population is declining. For
the last 20 years, our population has been declining.
All three of the counties, most of the counties
are tier one. Some of them are persistent poverty,
meaning they've been, you know, in an economically
destitute state for several decades, at least
30 years. And so, you know, as someone who lived
here and literally watched this transformation
happen over time, I call it a neglected Northeast
of North Carolina because it felt like, well,
we're just like the redheaded stepchild out of
the state, you know? It's like... It'll be okay.
They'll figure it out. And just throw them a
bone or toss them a little something every now
and then. You know, not anything to really transform
their life or upgrade their quality of life,
but something to just hold them to the next funding
cycle. Then we'll toss them something else. I
say neglect because it feels like the times both
parties have been, you know, have neglected this
part of the state and taken it for granted. You
got all this history here. Halifax, you know,
Warren County, birthplace of environmental justice.
Halifax, you know, where the resolves were adopted.
We love to call ourselves person freedom. So,
you know, it's like us to be such an important
part of the history of this state and the country,
for that matter. You would think we'd get a little
bit more love and a little bit more attention.
Do you think that... that blame for, you know,
the kind of neglected status lies more on like
the state level, federal level, or maybe just
like a mix? I think it's a mix. I think it's
local as well. I'm not excluding us because,
you know, sometimes you can get in your own way.
You know, the elected leadership that we've had
has not always, and I'm not saying all of them,
but the elected leadership that we've had on
local, state, and federal levels throughout.
past several decades has not always had the best
interest of this part of the state in mind. You
know, whether you look at their voting record,
whether you look at how hard they've advocated
for this part of the state, they didn't always
have our best interest in mind or at heart. And
now, you know, you've got, you know, over the
past couple of few years, now this area of the
state is becoming, you know, in my opinion, racially
gerrymandered. You know, so you're taking away
the ability of people in this part of the state
to elect the leaders and the leadership that
they want to represent them at different levels
of government when it comes to state and federal.
And then sometimes you have people at local levels
who may be more concerned with lining their own
pockets and keeping their position of authority
than actually mentoring younger people and letting
them assume the post and the mantle to move us
forward into the future. And I know that's not
just... you know, this part of the state. I know
that's, you know, throughout the state and throughout
the country, namely. You know, you see that divide.
There's not so much, you know, black and white.
You know, it's sometimes young and old. It's
sometimes a class struggle. So you have all of
those things to go along with it as well. And
I mean, I agree. It's something we've talked
about on the show before is just, you know, maybe
some of the older generation, folks have been
there for a while not making way for the younger
folks who might have you know new fresher approaches
or just you know let's say ideas that are a little
bit more in line with how society is currently
i will say one thing that i've always thought
was kind of interesting and i say this as someone
who grew up in western north carolina is demographically
you know the demographics are kind of different
but You think? A tad. But one thing they both
have in common is these are two areas of the
state that have been historically neglected and
taken advantage of by, you know, both sides of
the aisle and at all levels. And I think it's,
I think the fact that it is this kind of behavior,
so to say, from, you know, all levels of government
the fact that that is going on is just more justification
for why we need you know fresh uh leadership
and you know younger leadership like say you
know a middle school social studies teacher um
but right that's right yeah um now you know this
is your first term and everything and Sessions
started back in July. Or not July. It is July.
Sessions started back in January. There you go.
And so you've had a little over half a year at
this point to kind of start to get your bearings
and kind of see what's what. So what's been something
you've learned or seen over the past little bit
that's kind of surprised you? Everybody's very
cordial. Yeah. Everybody's very cordial, very
nice. Yeah, we have some very, very heated disagreements
at times. But most of the time, what I've seen
so far, everybody's, even when we disagree, people
try to be cordial, you know. And maybe some things
said in private, but not publicly. You know,
publicly, we give each other little slick jabs.
You know, we're talking about, you know, something
you said or some type of bill you're trying to
introduce and get passed. And another thing that
I learned that kind of surprised me was that,
well, was the number of bills that we pass unanimously.
Right. Or did you have an overwhelming number
of people vote on? You know, there have been
a lot of 100 plus to zero votes, you know, that
I've seen. And that's something that was surprising.
You know, the consternation, the lack of consternation.
You know, I think that's kind of surprised me.
And that depends on the bill. Yeah. It depends
on what bill is being debated. And it'll get
heated or then it might get it might veer a little
bit to, you know, into a more combative area.
You know, I've seen people get cut off. You know
what I mean? In terms of I can't remember what
it's called, but, you know, the. Someone on the
other side will stand and say, I'm sorry, I can't
think of it right now. I don't know if it's point
of order. And the speaker will recognize that
person and they'll say something. And the speaker
will basically, whoever is the Democrat who's
talking here, basically, you know, they basically
have to sit down and shut up and stop making
their point. You know, it's all done very nice,
though. Very professional, very cordial. But,
you know. You know, it basically is time for
you to sit down and chill. So those are some
of the things I've been surprised by because
you feel like, you know, let the person finish
their point. Now, if they're not on track with
their original thought and they start veering
somewhere else, yeah, bring them back in. You
know, but let the person finish their original
point. And I've never seen maybe once on the
other side of the aisle someone being called
out for that. you know, by a member of their
own party, definitely not from our side and having
to sit down and not talk anymore. I mean, that's
fair. I will say as someone who is a bit of a
nerd and does watch a lot of the, a lot of the
sessions, it is interesting to see just how aggressive,
but polite it can be at times. Let's say. Yeah.
That's a great way to put it. Yeah. A great way
to put it. Aggressive politeness. Yeah. Going
back to the whole teaching thing, I guess in
a little, in a way, you know, you, you taught
social studies a couple of different grades,
if I'm not mistaken, I think fourth and 11th.
Yeah. No, everything was middle school. Middle
school. Okay. Yeah. Six through eight. Six through
eight. That's right. A couple of high school
classes. I taught. I didn't teach high school
students, but they allow eighth graders to take
those courses to get high school credit. So I
taught civics and economics. Gotcha. And I taught
world history. So, you know, that said, what's
it like going from, you know, teaching the stuff
to living it? Man, that's a great question. It's
surreal. It's surreal. I'm very proud to be a
member of the State House of Representatives,
particularly coming from the classroom to the
Capitol. so to speak. What I love about it more
than anything is that my kids that I've taught,
even though I saw, I saw, I went to an event
locally and a couple of kids I taught at the
first school I taught at, they're having a child,
you know, and I'm sitting there like, wow, you
know, they're that old, you know what I mean?
They're like in their early twenties, late teens.
For me to be where I'm at and for them to be
able to witness that and to hopefully and prayerfully
be encouraged by it means everything. Yeah. It
means everything. And to be in the same room
or to go by the office of people that, you know,
I may have admired for years because of their
advocacy, because of their stature in the GA,
that, like I said, it's surreal sometimes to
meet these people in person and to know you're
not just there as a constituent. Now you're there
as a colleague. Right. And they have to respect
you as such. You know, and most of the time they
do. You know what I mean? Because at the end
of the day, hey, you are their colleague. You
are a duly elected member and you represent the
people of your district just like they represent
the people of theirs. So it's surreal, man. It
can be discouraging at times. It can be discouraging
at times. And then it can be a whole lot of fun
as well. Yeah. Sometimes what I mean by discouraging
is, you know, some, you know, the process of
getting legislation passed. things like that.
And then people, I think sometimes people try
to remind you, you know, that, you know, well,
I've been here longer than you, you know what
I mean? Uh, this and that, this and that. And
it goes back into what you were saying in terms
of, you know, people, um, I'm not going to say
hanging around too long, but people who have
that veteran status in their multiple term, you're
not, not necessarily being open -minded. And
listening to a younger point of view. Right.
You know, stuff like that. Folks are just kind
of set in their ways, really. Yeah. Yeah, we
all are. We're all guilty of that. You know,
I was like that when I was teaching. Yeah. You
know, but, you know, this is policy. This is
literally dealing with people's lives. You know,
this is a totally different wheelhouse. So, you
know, you just hope that people will be a little
bit more open -minded at times to listening to
different points of view. and a lot of times
we don't get that now keep in mind this might
be uh the most controversial one uh might get
you canceled not really but uh what is your go
-to cookout order cookout yeah oh man you know
we got one like five to seven minutes from my
house now you're gonna make me want to go there
when i get off with you man oh man okay okay
hold on hold on all right look out tree Cookout
burger. Ketchup, mustard, and coleslaw. With
fries. Sometimes I get the fries and the nuggets.
With Oreo shake. Nice. I like that. That's good.
Solid tray. My stomach doesn't always like it
later. That's fair. Well, so, you know, know
that you are running for re -election. You are
going to be running in the primary against Michael
Ray. I know you're going to be out on the campaign
trail, but in the meantime, where can people,
you know, find you? How can they keep up with
your campaign, with what you're doing in the
statehouse, all that good stuff? Well, I post
on all of my social media, pretty much. You know,
if I post on one platform, I pretty much post
on all of them. And most of my posts are public
in terms of Facebook because I'm a public figure
now. So Rodney D. Pierce, P -I -E -R -C -E. You
can follow me on my personal Facebook page. Pierce
for NC House District 27 is my campaign page.
That's also on Facebook. At Pierce for NC House
is my Twitter. or x and peers for nc house 27
is what i am on ig so you can follow me on those
platforms nice and keep up with my campaign or
what i do uh day to day the one thing i'm the
most proud of cj that i've heard from my constituents
is that they are well informed now good you always
tell me how how well informed i keep them and
that goes back to the classroom you know um The
Bible says my people perish for a lack of knowledge.
You know, I don't want my people to perish. So
I do my best to keep them knowledgeable and informed
of what's going on. And once you get the information,
you do what you want with it, you know. But being
in this position when things happen, I can now,
you know, use that legislative muscle to ask
people directly, tell me what this is going to
do. How is this going to impact House District
27? And I can get that information. And then
I share it with the people. That's what it's
about, giving them the information so that they
can make informed decisions and not uninformed
or misinformed. Last thing, Pierce4NC .com. That
is my website. There we go. All right. Awesome.
Pierce4NC .com. Representative Rodney Pierce,
ladies and gentlemen, thank you so much for coming
on the show. And, yeah, everyone check out all
of his social media pages, his website. And,
you know, if you feel so fine, I'm sure you wouldn't
mind a donation or two. Oh, yes, definitely wouldn't
mind that. And thank you again for having me
on the show today. I appreciate it. Of course.