I just wanted to do a quick heads up on this
episode. Unfortunately, we weren't able to release
this anytime during Pride Month. During Pride
Month, there was a huge change, both in my personal
life and professional life. Some good and bad,
but just wanted to go ahead and put this out
there that I'm sorry that... A lot of episodes
that we've recorded lately have not gone out
on time, but we will be releasing those during
this week and next week. Up first is an episode
that we recorded with Aaron Johnson, who is part
of Equality NC and a good friend of ours. And
I apologize to him profusely that this episode
did not go out on time because I had a lot of
fun talking to him. And in the meantime... Thank
you for listening. I hope you enjoy this episode,
and we'll see you later. Today on The Left of
Old North, we are joined by someone who lives
and breathes community power and is on the front
lines of the fight for LGBTQ rights in North
Carolina. Aaron Johnson is the organizing director
for EqualityNC. and where he works to build sustainable
grassroots infrastructure across the state, especially
in queer and marginalized communities that are
too often ignored by those in power. As a proud
North Carolinian, Aaron is the first in his family
to graduate from college, earning his degree
from Edgecombe Community College and UNC Greensboro.
He brings more than a decade of experience leading
and managing diverse teams across local, state,
and federal campaigns. And he's someone who...
deeply understands that liberation isn't given,
it's built. So in this conversation, we're going
to talk about the role of organizing during Pride
Month, what it means to protect LGBTQ plus North
Carolinians in a hostile political climate, and
how we all can do more to show up, not just in
June, not just in Pride Month, but every single
day. Aaron, welcome to the show. Thanks for having
me. Yeah, we've run into each other a couple
times in our various escapades. I know that you
and CJ have probably known each other a little
bit longer, or at least been in the same spaces
a little bit longer. You've been organizing,
though, for over a decade. What was the first
issue or campaign that really lit the fire for
you? So my first campaign was in 2014. I was
an intern for Kay Hagan's re -election campaign
to the U .S. Senate. And the story I always like
to tell folks about that one is I actually got
involved because of my mom. She lost her job
in 08 when the economy got incredibly bad. And
I remember her coming home the day that she lost
her job, kind of down, talking about how things
are going to be a little bit harder. And then
from there, there was kind of like a light bulb
that went off for that voting was going to be
an action that you take to elect people who are
going to go to Washington and make sure that
our local economy isn't going to be suffering
like it was in 08. So fast forward six years
when I was a senior in high school, when I had
the ability to get involved in my own community
and take some change, signed up through like
a random email that I had gotten. I don't really
know to this day how they got my email address,
but nonetheless. We never do. We never know how
they get it. evergreen and like a decade later
and I work in this industry and I still have
no idea how my email address has ended up on
any of those lists. I signed up to go and knock
doors and we met at my county library. I'm from
Nash County originally. I ended up meeting folks
at the Braswell Library where I went to go knock
doors kind of towards downtown and Rocky Mill
where I met voters who, like my mom, had been
down and out since the 08 recession and needed
folks in Washington to stand up and fight for
them. And it was at that moment that I realized
that Democrats were the folks doing that. That
light bulb kind of clicked. My candidate, my
boss at that point, Kay Hagan, had done a really
good job in Washington bringing representation
to North Carolina. And since 2014, every campaign
I've worked on, every cause I've worked on, I
try to imagine from that same space, who's going
to go and actually build power to fight for communities
like mine, who will build the types of representation
or serve as a type of representation that serve
folks like my mom and communities like I grew
up in. And yeah, I know that's a long answer
to your question, but Kay Hagan in 2014 was the
first race I was a part of. That's cool. And
so your upbringing and education pretty much
directly shaped your approach to how you engage
in movements, how you organize. At least that's
what it sounds like. Absolutely. Like you mentioned
in the intro, I was the first in my family to
go to college, the first in my family to graduate
from college. And I did so by my mom, who was
still really dealing with the aftermath of that
08 recession. That type of being able to go to
college and not really have that type of, you
know, context as to like how to navigate complicated
systems, how to with like the actual physical
being on a campus for the first time outside
of my hometown. Really just taught me a lot about
how to roll up my sleeves and really just try
to run through as many of these walls as we can.
Yeah, I would argue that like it did happen to
me and impact on how I grew up. And sorry, reset
had an impact on the other kind of work that
I do. Well, so speaking of like the work that
you do, what are up to now here in your present
day? Sure. I'm the organizing director at Equality
North Carolina, which has been around in North
Carolina since 1979. We're the oldest LGBTQ plus
nonprofit in the country. And in North Carolina,
it's taken a couple of different identities.
We rebranded Equality North Carolina in the 80s.
The first PAC supporting LGBTQ plus rights started
in the 90s here in North Carolina. And the current
version of Equality that folks recognized started
in 2002, where the Equality North Carolina Foundation
at that point and the Pride PAC merged to just
form Equality. in North Carolina, which still
works to hold our legislators accountable today
and to elect champions for equality in the elections
across the state. So in doing that, right, in
holding elected officials accountable, especially
in, I mean, across North Carolina, what are you
doing? especially during this political moment,
people hear PAC, right? And they think, oh, it's
just a way to funnel money and stuff like that.
But how are you putting the action in political
action committee? That's a good question. So
I think it's important to know equality takes
on a lot of different forms. We are a nonprofit.
We also are PAC in some other cases, which means
that our work really does go year round, right?
Our work isn't just about elections. Our work
is about building sustainable change in communities
across the state. So there's a couple of different
ways we do that. One, We're training volunteers
all the time to use their voices and to tell
their stories. I'm a big believer that storytelling
and organizing matters a lot. I think that if
we are able to put a face on a lot of these different
organizing efforts, the work becomes a little
bit more sustainable and it helps make an impact
long term. We're a nonprofit. We're a PAC. There's
a lot of different things that go into it. The
bottom line is that our work goes on year -round.
So year -round, there's a couple different priorities
we're focusing on. One, training our volunteers
to tell their stories. So building power through
giving volunteers the tools to make sure they
have ways to tell their stories, not just to
their legislators in Raleigh, but to their local
electors on school boards. I know that recently
there was an issue in Johnson County with the
school board. To city councils across the state.
To making sure that we're... showing up at community
events and making sure that folks have the physical
tools and the skills needed to really equip themselves
to have conversations that are going to build
change long term. And then on top of that, we
also do the accountability work. We work to get
folks to the General Assembly to speak at committee
hearings. We work to get folks at the General
Assembly to pack the galleries. We work to recruit
speakers who can go on the record and talk about
why these bills are. And usually, in most cases,
bad. We don't get to pass the good stuff in North
Carolina. We only get to pass the bad stuff or
stop the bad stuff. For now. For now. Fingers
crossed. But essentially, there's a lot of work
that we do to build power to make sure that our
volunteers, one, have the tools they need to
go and engage communities. And two, use those
tools to hold electeds in their communities and
in the general assembly accountable. It's quite
a lot, to be honest. Yeah. A lot more than I
thought it was going to be. Yeah. Agreed. With
everything going on, especially right now in
this moment of, let's just say, high political
tension, to say the least, how, I guess, would
you, do you kind of go about building momentum
and trust and whatnot on these issues in, say,
rural or politically hostile? So as a queer guy
myself from Roanoke, Carolina, I can tell you
that there is a lot of what folks would consider
to be some form of tension there, right? But
there's also a lot of support in these communities.
I can tell you one of the speakers we had a hearing
a couple weeks ago at the General Assembly was
someone who comes from Caswell County, identifies
as trans, and spoke powerfully about how members
of his community are able to support him at a
time sometimes where state politics didn't necessarily
feel as if they were being supportive. So certainly
there's a lot of that, but I also think there's
a lot of support in communities. And at Equality,
what we're trying to do is harness as much of
that as we possibly can. We'll talk more about
this in a couple of seconds. But one of the ways
we're going about doing that is identifying the
different types of Pride events happening across
the state this year and making sure that we have
a presence there. Tomorrow, we're filming this
on a Friday, and tomorrow, of course, the first
Saturday in June, which means there are Pride
festivals happening across the state. Up to five
events of all quality will have someone there.
Three of those five are happening in what could
be considered rural communities. So we're going
to be in Hendersonville at a Pride event. We're
going to be in Pittsburgh. We're going to be
in Wilson. To make sure that we're not just necessarily
connections and building power in those urban
spaces, we're also building it in those rural
spaces. Like I mentioned earlier, I'm a gay guy
from rural North Carolina. growing up oftentimes
i didn't necessarily think there were other folks
like me that were in my community there wasn't
a lot of representation in media in press online
of like what growing up in a rural space was
as i was identified as i was finding out more
about myself so at equality something that we're
trying to be intentional about is expanding and
changing how we engage with these folks to make
sure that one folks have that sense of identity
that they're seeing in some of these non -urban
places and two the work that we do to build long
-term powers of the abilities networks one One,
it helps us long -term electorally. We're able
to elect a bunch of good folks who are then able
to make change in this local level to make real
life better. But two, we're also able to empower
folks in communities that, again, historically
speaking, folks haven't necessarily paid that
much attention to. And I do think that there's
a lot of power in that, and I also think there's
a lot of beauty in that. Yeah, I like that. So
there is a booth there that was there in 2024,
I believe, and probably started in 2023, where
it's a Christian extremist is probably the best
way to... put it group that has a millstone that
is painted like a rainbow and trans flag and
it has the uh luke 7 12 i think verse from it
which is basically insinuating that anybody who
leads children astray should tie a millstone
around their neck and be thrown into the sea
now Not to broadcast too much, but I mean, like
you said, this is being filmed prior to. So do
you have any plans to address that? Good question.
I don't know if we have any specific plans to
address that specifically, but that is something
that we are aware of. Equality does a lot of
work to also track a lot of what we're seeing
with extremism across the state. We also have
a lot of partner organizations that are responsible
for tracking this as well. One. Because we know
that in a heightened time, you mentioned the
word tension earlier, in these tense times, there's
a lot going on in the world. And we just want
folks to make sure they have access to as much
of that information as possible. And two. Tracking
this really does help us identify concerning
trends and making sure that we're keeping folks
safe and keeping communities safe. You know,
while equality doesn't necessarily have a direct
role in that last component, we do know that
it's all kind of ties together. We are a part
of like, I can think about this as like an ecosystem,
right? So equality is like one small part of
a much larger ecosystem. making sure that we
were able to keep an eye on this as a part of
that. And that means we're tracking and making
sure that we are keeping an eye on it to make
sure this doesn't transpire into something else.
And if we do have to take action in the future,
certainly we'll figure out what that looks like,
but certainly something that we're aware of.
Quick follow -up to that. What do you say to
youths who are especially feeling pretty froggy
to get involved in the advocacy and organizing
realm that may not like that answer? that it's
like, okay, well, I know that you're not maybe
directly doing anything about it in a way that
some people might, probably with a little bit
more intent behind it, but what would you say
to those folks who it's like, okay, we have to
remember that regardless of how these people
feel, they are in our communities, and the aim
is not to make the tensions rise even higher.
So I think that's why we approach our work with
joy, with pride, pun not intended. There is a
lot of work that we can do to really uplift positive
moments in our community, right? Historically
speaking, there really hasn't been a lot of attention
paid to the positive, you know, uplifting, again,
prideful parts of this community. And in equality
and a number of other capacities, there's a lot
that we can do to make sure that we're uplifting
those folks and providing space for those things.
The other thing that I'll notice, that I'll mention,
there is a lot of fear out there right now, right?
That's a very real thing. But that's also because
they want us to be scared. Like, folks want us
to not engage with pride events. We don't want
folks, folks don't want us to engage with, you
know, speaking up at the General Assembly, at
school board meetings across the state, right?
Folks have gotten incredibly comfortable making
sure that we are uncomfortable. And that's wrong.
And I think that the best thing that we can do
to make sure that we push back on that is not
and not give them any space. Right. Don't give
them the ability to make sure folks feel uncomfortable
in this very, very tense moment, because that
only makes it worse. Right. So speaking up and
taking power and building power looks a lot more
like uplifting those positive stories and making
sure that folks know that, again, we have to
get involved in this moment. So I guess I know
I'm about to ask. It's probably a little can
be both nuanced and also vague, let's say. But,
you know, when it comes to this type of advocacy
and what, I guess, what winning, so to say, kind
of look like to you and how do you kind of perceive
the path for getting there? Because I know they
end nuanced at the same time. Well, I think a
couple of things. I'll start with this. So one,
we don't get to make as much progress in this
yet as we want to, right? But there are still
avenues to make that progress happen, even if
it's incrementally and not necessarily in the
sweeping ways that we want. So to answer your
question, I think winning looks like, one, making
sure that we continue to send folks to speak
up at the General Assembly, making sure that
we're making it harder for them to pass these
bad bills, making sure that the avenues that
we currently have to pass good bills are still
protected, making sure that we're electing folks
to city councils and to town councils and to
school boards across the state to make sure that
we're passing on a local level as many of these
non -discrimination orders as we possibly can.
making sure that stopping school boards from
passing discriminatory policies against their
queer students and their queer employees, making
sure that we're working with as many private
sector partners as we can to provide best practices,
speaking up for folks that, hey, again, in the
workplaces that may not have, historically speaking,
had the ability to speak up or even know that
speaking up was an option. So there is a lot
of different tools we have in our toolkit to
win, but I also think that, again, not surprising
to anyone here that winning incrementally is
going to be more of a of a tactic versus the
sweeping changes that we have that requires a
little bit more support in the general assembly
than we currently have and hopefully we get steps
closer election cycles in the future to to changing
that yeah and when it comes to like winning elections.
I know that it, that can be in a lot of different
ways, again, nuanced and maybe not a clean cut
answer because there are some Democrats that
will support gay people, but they won't necessarily
pass legislation to help enforce or, or protect
things for gay people. And then there are also
Republicans who are either impartial about it
or they are actually supportive of it. And so
to you, Is it more like we'll take what we can
get, or is it we're seeking out specific people
or specific causes that we want to support to
make sure that the agenda that we want to pass
in this state, which is, of course, protections
for LGBTQ +, people in the interest of equality,
which is right in the name, how does that look
to you? Is it more of like we take what we can
get or we want to support certain people? Good
question. I answer it this way. I think a couple
things. One, making sure that we have reset.
Well, I mean, and I'll give you a couple examples,
too, if you want, like of specific people that
I'm thinking of, like Democrats like Michael
Ray, who was not exactly the most supportive.
Look, we know. You beat him. Good job, buddy.
No, no, no. It's good though, right? Because
like I said, it wasn't exactly in your best interest.
Whether it was because he just was blasé about
it or was actively advocating against it, Michael
Ray did vote against protections for LGBTQ plus
initiatives multiple times. And then on the flip
side of that, we have somebody like Trisha Cotham
who turned coat on the Democrats and became a
Republican and yet... still continues to support
LGBTQ activities and also, I mean, tries to bring
people around to the trans issue within the NCGA.
So those are just two examples for both you and
for our listeners out there to know that North
Carolina is like... As wide as the state is,
so is its spectrum. You know, it is a very wide
spectrum. We're a big state, politically diverse,
ideologically diverse. There's a lot of different
pieces of cattle we're trying to hurdle, what
we're trying to herd. So I'll say this. I think,
one, from an equality perspective, a large part
of our work is holding members of the General
Assembly accountable to the people that elected
them. So in an ideal world, what that means is
that we're building communities, we're building
networks in places where we have these elected
legislators who we aren't entirely sure how they're
going to vote on these bills. And then working
within their communities, working within their
districts to really lift up the concerns that
we're seeing, making sure that their elected
member is aware of these things. That said, that
isn't necessarily always possible. We don't necessarily
have a network in as many of these places as
I would like. But what we do have is the ability
to build that network. So we have the ability
to go into these places to identify who are the
folks there that we should be talking to, who
are the members of the communities there that
are doing the incredibly important work that
might necessarily not be attaching to particular
groups, and figuring out, again, how do we get
these folks plugged in to their General Assembly
member to make sure that we stop them from taking
some of these bad votes. That said... We also
know that it isn't necessarily easy for some
of these Democrats to vote the right way. I know
that there are some Democrats that voted on a
couple of bills that I'm not necessarily fond
of their votes, personally. Yeah, so I think
two things. One, there is a lot of work that
is accountability work, and that is making sure
that we're working with communities and places
all across the state to hold their legislators
accountable. So whether that's like the local
PFLAG group that wants to stop their member taking
some anti -trans votes or working with like the
local librarians to stop book bans. There's a
lot of different parts of communities across
the state that are already organizing that are
quality. We just really want to tap in and figure
out how to kind of like tie our work to what
they're doing or to tie all our goals together,
right? Because like I mentioned earlier, we're
an ecosystem. It all kind of comes together.
The other part of this that I'll mention is that
when it comes to the electoral perspectives of
this, there are some members of the General Assembly
that are in a bit of like a tougher spot, right?
Voters in, let's say, I'll pick a county, my
home county, Edgecombe County, voted for a member
of the General Assembly, voted for a Democratic
member of Congress, voted for a Democratic president.
Both of these begin as a safe seat. We know that
Republicans are going to try to turn folks against
each other. We know that they've already taken
steps in our General Assembly, introduced bills
that have forced Democrats into some compromising
positions to vote in individual communities.
We don't need, as a caucus and as a party, I
think it doesn't necessarily, this is my personal
hat, not necessarily the equality hat in this
space. Sure. We don't necessarily, we don't win
elections by tying ourselves to that Republican
narrative, right? We don't win elections working.
with them to exclude members of communities.
We don't build power otherizing trans kids. We
don't win power working with them to ban books
that tell our stories from public libraries,
that our taxpayer dollars provide it, by the
way. So there is some work that goes into making
sure that a lot of these Democrats that are in
these safe receipts can and should take the right
votes. That also said, we take nothing for granted.
So talking to these folks and building conversations
and earning their support for these things is
something that goes into those considerations.
And there are a lot of incredible partner organizations
across the state that roll up their sleeves and
have those same types of conversations. Because
again, a lot of our rights and a lot of this
work is tied to a lot of other rights. Republicans
in the General Assembly have communicated their
interest in going after. I guess one thing I
was kind of curious about without, I guess, giving
the game away or, you know. But we're currently
in June, so we got, call it a little under a
year and a half until midterms 2026. In this
organizing space, what does the next year and
a half -ish look like for y 'all as we're getting
to that point, as we're getting closer to midterms?
So, and I appreciate the way you asked that question,
because I do think we still have some time before
the elections next year. But the important thing
to keep in mind is, one, Because there is that
time, there's plenty of runway that we have to
build the actual systems and to build the plan
needed to get champions of equality elected.
So it looks like a couple of things. This year,
we're focusing building as many different POTS
supporters as we can all across the state. That
means showing up at Pride events in as many places
as we can, showing up to Pride events in places
where we haven't historically. I mentioned the
Pittsboro's and the Wilson's and the Henderson
County's. Showing up. building our networks in
these places, sustaining these relationships,
and getting these folks involved, tying them
to different types of events that we can get
them involved with, whether that be storytelling
trainings, opportunities to speak at the General
Assembly, or any other types of events that we
host. And then next year, we'll mobilize those
folks that we spent this year putting together.
So that means that we are getting folks engaged
closer to the elections next year. That means
we're getting informed about who the candidates
that we've chosen to endorse are. We've found
ways to talk about different issues and identify
ways to really hold and highlight the importance
of these issues so that way communities are aware.
The legislators and the people that are electing
will be focusing on those things. And I do think
that next year the conditions are right to make
some significant changes in our General Assembly.
That said, the maps are still incredibly gerrymandered.
And here in North Carolina, the odds are always
against us. But I think what we're seeing from
across the state is no matter where you are,
folks are tired of like seeing members of their
communities and target it. And they're electing
and want to elect folks that are going to stand
up for them and not necessarily tie them against
each other. So this year and next year, that
work to build these spaces and then mobilize
these spaces does, one, it's already started.
And then two, it's going to just continue to
get even more important. What's your cookout
order? That's a damn good question. My cookout
order actually reflects my priorities. So I'm
from eastern North Carolina, so I love eastern
Carolina barbecue. In my honest opinion, and
it's not an opinion because I'm right, eastern
barbecue, it is the creme de la creme of barbecue.
So I go to cookout, I get a barbecue sandwich.
Usually there's like the side of nuggets, maybe
the hush puppies, depending on how we're feeling,
maybe fries some days. I'm also violently lactose
intolerant, so I can't get the shakes or else
I wouldn't. And I'm very sad because this is
the new development for me in my life. In high
school and college, I loved those shakes. And
now I'm very sad I can't get them. Great question.
The whole barbecue question, honestly, that might
be what gets us canceled ultimately. Well, I'll
say this. Governor Hunt made a good point once
at a breakfast that the state party hosted. But
I will say that Governor Hunt has good taste
in barbecue, and I'll say that every Democratic
governor we've ever elected from this state has
come from places where there's Eastern barbecue.
We haven't elected a Western governor in over
100 years, and I think there might be a correlation
between these two things. Well, the science is
still out on that, but we'll need to do some
peer reviews. i'll pick up a western barbecue
sandwich and a eastern barbecue sandwich from
cookout do live taste testing and you can also
do the lexington style if you meet in the middle
and and i mean i can definitely compromise because
like no i can't i can't i can't say my opinion
yet we can't do that yet anyway a later episode
But thank you, Aaron, for coming on today. It
has been really great talking to you. We love
the work that y 'all are doing at EqualityNC
and we hope to see much, much more of it in the
coming years, especially like we were talking
about with the run up to 2026 and 2028. Where
can people find you online to reach out if they
have questions and where can they reach EqualityNC?
and how can they get involved? We have a website,
equalitync .org, where folks can learn more about
events we have coming up across the state, signing
up to volunteer at a pride booth somewhere across
the state. Folks can also learn more about the
specific policies that we're advocating for.
And they can join our newsletter to learn a little
bit more about other types of actions that we're
taking. So that is EqualityNC .org. We're also
on Instagram and Blue Sky and Facebook and any
other platform that is not Twitter or X or whatever
we're calling it these days. So hope to see folks
engaged and looking forward to seeing folks across
the state this month for Pride. Awesome. Thank
you so much. Of course. Thanks for having me.
Yeah, fantastic. And yeah, thank you so much
for... taking the time to join us and talk to
us a little bit. The organization and your work,
your personal background and everything. Appreciate
the work y 'all are doing and thank y 'all for
trying to change this media space because we
don't do enough of that. Thank you for the work
y 'all are doing and stay informed and stay in
the fight, especially during Pride Month, but
not... only just during Pride Month. And that's
the most important thing, right? So thank you
for listening. Aaron, thanks for coming on. And
stay with us on the left of Old North.