WEBVTT 00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:07.459 Welcome, welcome, welcome back to the Left of 00:00:07.459 --> 00:00:10.759 Old North. We just came off the back of recording 00:00:10.759 --> 00:00:14.220 a great interview with senatorial candidate and 00:00:14.220 --> 00:00:18.160 former House Representative Wiley Nickel. I think 00:00:18.160 --> 00:00:20.160 it went really well. What do you think, CJ? I 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:22.980 thought it was absolutely fantastic. Yeah. Absolutely 00:00:22.980 --> 00:00:26.519 fantastic. There's a lot of great stuff except 00:00:26.519 --> 00:00:29.019 for y 'all to hear. Yeah, it almost makes it 00:00:29.019 --> 00:00:30.859 worse that we have to now come back and talk 00:00:30.859 --> 00:00:32.659 about all the other crappy stuff that went on 00:00:32.659 --> 00:00:35.659 this week. It's kind of a downer coming back. 00:00:35.820 --> 00:00:39.039 But that means that on the back half of this 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:41.619 episode, you have something to listen to that 00:00:41.619 --> 00:00:43.079 I think you're really going to love. And you 00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:46.259 know what? This first part, it's not even all 00:00:46.259 --> 00:00:50.780 bad news. It's not. That's true. Yeah, that's 00:00:50.780 --> 00:00:53.600 true. It's not all bad news. But we do have another 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:56.929 guest on the show right now. Yes, so this is 00:00:56.929 --> 00:01:00.369 Kevin the Cat. Yes, his name is Kevin the Cat, 00:01:00.469 --> 00:01:05.609 according to the vet. He is about six years old, 00:01:05.769 --> 00:01:09.310 loves long walks on the beach, loves trying to 00:01:09.310 --> 00:01:12.590 chase birds through the window, and causing general 00:01:12.590 --> 00:01:17.109 mayhem. Well, he can run for Chuck Hubbard's 00:01:17.109 --> 00:01:21.950 seat then. So we, and that's not quite a segue, 00:01:22.090 --> 00:01:25.180 but we'll get to it. The left got a bit of a 00:01:25.180 --> 00:01:30.819 big, huge, fat W this week. One that was desperately, 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:33.299 desperately, desperately needed. Justice Allison 00:01:33.299 --> 00:01:35.840 Riggs is now officially, and she has been sworn 00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:38.760 in since the time that we recorded this, she's 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:41.920 now officially the Associate Supreme Court Justice 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:44.620 once again of the North Carolina Supreme Court, 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:50.280 duly elected after... four tries you know the 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:54.099 the fight of a lifetime I guess one could say 00:01:54.099 --> 00:01:56.359 honestly though most people don't get to claim 00:01:56.359 --> 00:01:58.659 that their race went on for six months longer 00:01:58.659 --> 00:02:01.260 than it should have I mean I don't think a lot 00:02:01.260 --> 00:02:04.799 of people want to claim that yeah only if you 00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:07.859 win right because then it's like is that I was 00:02:07.859 --> 00:02:09.680 just about to say imagine being Jefferson Griffin 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:13.340 right now the guy dragged this out for six months 00:02:13.340 --> 00:02:15.919 spent god knows how many millions of dollars 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:18.479 on lawyer fees and you know just challenges and 00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:23.319 whatnot yeah just to lose to lose and you know 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:27.060 Jeff over and you know Jeff i do feel bad i know 00:02:27.060 --> 00:02:29.520 you listen to this podcast and you know we love 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:32.599 that you're a regular listener so Just, you know, 00:02:32.599 --> 00:02:34.080 I understand if you're taking it really hard. 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:36.620 I understand if this was a huge burden on you. 00:02:36.659 --> 00:02:40.400 Maybe just get off the appeals court now. I think 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:43.060 that you need a break. I think really, you know, 00:02:43.060 --> 00:02:44.599 you should take a break from the appeals court 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:46.819 too. I know you're still on there. That's got 00:02:46.819 --> 00:02:48.960 to be rough. Yeah, exactly. I mean, imagine going 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:51.159 there like every day just knowing that everyone 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:54.080 knows you're a loser. It's got to be tough. It's 00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:56.800 got to be hard on that. Yeah, go on. Take, you 00:02:56.800 --> 00:03:00.099 know, a couple of years, decade. Yeah. The rest 00:03:00.099 --> 00:03:03.120 of your life. just you know go relax take a roll 00:03:03.120 --> 00:03:06.300 off load off yeah but regardless i mean and this 00:03:06.300 --> 00:03:08.360 is the this is the thing right we we have been 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:10.620 waiting for this we have been talking about this 00:03:10.620 --> 00:03:12.659 the people who listen to this show know we have 00:03:12.659 --> 00:03:14.819 been talking about this since we started the 00:03:14.819 --> 00:03:17.599 show and it's finally over so i guess we can 00:03:17.599 --> 00:03:19.979 quit the show now job's done totally we have 00:03:20.590 --> 00:03:23.629 We have done everything that we need to do. Democracy 00:03:23.629 --> 00:03:27.310 is saved. North Carolina politics are no longer 00:03:27.310 --> 00:03:32.250 messed up in any type of way. We are done. Let's 00:03:32.250 --> 00:03:35.090 back it up and go home. Utopia. We did it. Oh, 00:03:35.129 --> 00:03:38.879 wait. What comes up must come down. Because almost 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:41.599 as soon as we learned of Alison Riggs' victory, 00:03:41.939 --> 00:03:45.240 we were faced with the crushing blow to the fact 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:48.180 that the North Carolina Board of Elections is 00:03:48.180 --> 00:03:52.000 now thoroughly controlled by MAGA Republican 00:03:52.000 --> 00:03:55.300 sycophants. The head of which is now Dave Boliek, 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:59.219 the state auditor. Please, I'm begging somebody 00:03:59.219 --> 00:04:01.199 in this entire country to make that make sense 00:04:01.199 --> 00:04:04.560 to me. I can't for the life of you tell you why. 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:08.159 I mean... You don't understand it because you're 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:10.900 not Republican and because you actually have 00:04:10.900 --> 00:04:15.159 at least some degree of morals and integrity. 00:04:15.520 --> 00:04:19.319 And I mean, again, we've said many times on the 00:04:19.319 --> 00:04:22.579 show, the Republican Party in North Carolina 00:04:22.579 --> 00:04:25.639 and in the country as a whole, really, they know 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:29.199 that their policies are unpopular. They know 00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:33.319 that people don't actually like the idea of being 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:36.180 taxed more while the rich you know or tax less 00:04:36.180 --> 00:04:41.319 they don't like the idea of you know republicans 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:46.079 trying to regulate trying to manage and legislate 00:04:46.079 --> 00:04:49.420 their bodies they know that their policies are 00:04:49.420 --> 00:04:52.180 awful and so what do they do they have to these 00:04:52.180 --> 00:04:55.300 power grabs right it's that simple which is why 00:04:55.300 --> 00:04:58.600 you know sorry i was gonna say because they don't 00:04:58.860 --> 00:05:00.759 As we've said before, they don't give a shit 00:05:00.759 --> 00:05:04.459 about your vote. They only care about their power. 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:07.420 That's going to be like the tagline for this 00:05:07.420 --> 00:05:11.439 show at this point. I think you've said it at 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:15.279 least once in the last four episodes. Hey, if 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:19.199 it takes people hearing it like every single 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:21.060 episode to get it through their heads, then, 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:24.339 you know, more power to you. But that being said, 00:05:24.459 --> 00:05:27.459 like. We are in that precarious predicament where, 00:05:27.579 --> 00:05:29.519 just like what we're going to talk about later 00:05:29.519 --> 00:05:32.879 with Wiley Nickel, the maps are completely screwed. 00:05:33.439 --> 00:05:41.420 That we have a voter population that more or 00:05:41.420 --> 00:05:44.379 less swings purple. Sometimes a little bit more 00:05:44.379 --> 00:05:46.879 red, sometimes a little bit more blue. Sometimes 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:49.480 it depends on what the office is. Because when 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:52.019 it comes to governor, we have a hot streak of 00:05:52.019 --> 00:05:54.600 Democratic governors that split tickets with... 00:05:55.110 --> 00:05:59.730 Republican presidents. We also have an even hotter 00:05:59.730 --> 00:06:02.689 streak with attorney generals. Yeah, I think 00:06:02.689 --> 00:06:07.230 the last time that happened was, what, like the 00:06:07.230 --> 00:06:09.750 1800s or something like that? Yeah, so ever. 00:06:09.750 --> 00:06:13.649 Like the 1800s? Yeah. So like never. In recent 00:06:13.649 --> 00:06:16.670 memory, at the very least, it has just not happened. 00:06:16.850 --> 00:06:19.389 And while I know that we're in an age now where 00:06:19.389 --> 00:06:24.319 Twitter transvestigators will try and... piece 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:30.680 together why somehow a voter base can somehow 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:33.180 split down the middle, how somehow a population 00:06:33.180 --> 00:06:36.639 can have differing and nuanced views that'll 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:38.899 boggle their brains until the end of time. They 00:06:38.899 --> 00:06:42.120 can't believe that there's a Democratic governor 00:06:42.120 --> 00:06:44.579 in a state that Trump won by four points. But 00:06:44.579 --> 00:06:47.689 that's the reality of North Carolina. And that's 00:06:47.689 --> 00:06:49.870 something we'll talk about more in another episode. 00:06:49.930 --> 00:06:52.529 But I think before we get too off track here, 00:06:52.649 --> 00:06:57.889 we had a 7 -7 House representation in the United 00:06:57.889 --> 00:07:00.850 States House. It was seven seats for the Democrats, 00:07:01.009 --> 00:07:03.230 seven seats for Republicans. Were those seats 00:07:03.230 --> 00:07:04.829 pretty gerrymandered? Were they a little wiggly 00:07:04.829 --> 00:07:08.110 looking? Depends on who you ask. But it used 00:07:08.110 --> 00:07:12.610 to be balanced, right? It wasn't based on landmass. 00:07:12.670 --> 00:07:16.009 It was based on representation. And, you know, 00:07:16.009 --> 00:07:17.709 you can't say the same for senators. And that's 00:07:17.709 --> 00:07:19.509 a statewide election. It makes sense. But at 00:07:19.509 --> 00:07:22.610 the same time, we saw how close those elections 00:07:22.610 --> 00:07:25.649 got. Yeah. It's not a blowout by any means. No. 00:07:25.810 --> 00:07:28.069 And I'll tell you one thing I'm kind of interested 00:07:28.069 --> 00:07:32.529 in is with these Senate seats. And maybe we should 00:07:32.529 --> 00:07:35.449 ask Wiley about his thoughts on this. But, I 00:07:35.449 --> 00:07:38.170 mean, Senate races, not just in North Carolina, 00:07:38.269 --> 00:07:41.560 but in general. just getting more and more and 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:44.560 more expensive. Yeah. So I'm really curious what 00:07:44.560 --> 00:07:47.139 a six is going to look like financially as far 00:07:47.139 --> 00:07:50.720 as how much is going to be dropped on these races. 00:07:50.839 --> 00:07:56.399 Yeah. I actually got fed an ad on Instagram where 00:07:56.399 --> 00:08:00.839 this guy was showing how much each tier of race 00:08:00.839 --> 00:08:03.600 would cost. He was going from state house, state 00:08:03.600 --> 00:08:07.129 senate. congressional, senatorial, presidential. 00:08:07.589 --> 00:08:10.009 And like when he got to the state house, state 00:08:10.009 --> 00:08:13.189 Senate numbers, I was like, no, no, it's like 00:08:13.189 --> 00:08:15.889 double that now. It's actually pretty insane 00:08:15.889 --> 00:08:18.389 how expensive some of these state house races 00:08:18.389 --> 00:08:20.350 have gotten. I mean, I know some of them have 00:08:20.350 --> 00:08:23.589 like pushed like a million dollars, if not more. 00:08:24.110 --> 00:08:26.970 Yeah. I mean, we could say the average is anywhere 00:08:26.970 --> 00:08:30.189 from like a quarter to a half million dollars 00:08:30.189 --> 00:08:33.870 easily on the low end. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, 00:08:34.460 --> 00:08:36.960 I know that's what we were working with on one 00:08:36.960 --> 00:08:40.039 of the races I've managed was about that much. 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:42.419 Races are expensive, folks, believe it or not. 00:08:42.620 --> 00:08:46.559 And it's not just because of, you know, padding 00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:48.879 the pockets of consultants and stuff like that. 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:53.299 A lot of it is ads. Almost exclusively ads, if 00:08:53.299 --> 00:08:56.580 you really bring it down. I mean, you know, it 00:08:56.580 --> 00:08:59.200 also just depends on where you live in the state. 00:08:59.279 --> 00:09:02.200 I mean, where your race is, I guess, really. 00:09:03.059 --> 00:09:05.789 Depends on that. determines what media market 00:09:05.789 --> 00:09:08.549 you fall into. So, like, you know, the race that 00:09:08.549 --> 00:09:10.750 I was managing happened to fall into the Raleigh 00:09:10.750 --> 00:09:14.909 media market, which, you know, Raleigh, big city, 00:09:15.049 --> 00:09:18.870 airtime is expensive. Very, very expensive. Because 00:09:18.870 --> 00:09:21.389 you're taking away that slot from a potential 00:09:21.389 --> 00:09:24.350 advertiser. Somebody who could probably pay them 00:09:24.350 --> 00:09:28.169 for a lot longer of a runtime, too. Well, longer 00:09:28.169 --> 00:09:30.710 of a runtime as far as the actual ad itself goes, 00:09:30.809 --> 00:09:34.860 and for a longer period. of time but yeah yeah 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:38.580 so don't donate to your local races folks yeah 00:09:38.580 --> 00:09:41.100 donate again and again again if you can don't 00:09:41.100 --> 00:09:44.100 sell if possible donate to races that definitely 00:09:44.100 --> 00:09:46.740 affect you personally and this isn't to say like 00:09:46.740 --> 00:09:49.940 hey if you don't have the means don't go don't 00:09:49.940 --> 00:09:52.320 go giving money to like the presidential campaigns 00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:56.659 or maybe a senatorial campaign in a different 00:09:56.659 --> 00:09:59.480 state right because they might need those dollars 00:09:59.480 --> 00:10:04.809 too but But your dollar goes a lot further when 00:10:04.809 --> 00:10:06.870 it comes to the state house, state Senate races, 00:10:07.009 --> 00:10:10.049 especially, especially if they're competitive. 00:10:10.769 --> 00:10:16.409 Cause cause sometimes literally sometimes 50 00:10:16.409 --> 00:10:18.529 bucks can make a difference. And that's not an 00:10:18.529 --> 00:10:21.220 exaggeration. Like that can. That can be the 00:10:21.220 --> 00:10:22.940 difference between paying somebody for an hour 00:10:22.940 --> 00:10:24.919 of canvassing time, getting them out there on 00:10:24.919 --> 00:10:28.179 the doors talking to people. And that could be 00:10:28.179 --> 00:10:31.039 the vote that helps swing a precinct and could 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:33.879 help swing an election. Yeah. I mean, because 00:10:33.879 --> 00:10:38.580 remember, it was Cheri Beasley lost by 400 votes. 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:42.659 If just one and a half people, I think is what 00:10:42.659 --> 00:10:45.200 they came out to. It's like if two people in 00:10:45.200 --> 00:10:48.039 every precinct had come out to vote for her, 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:51.049 she would have won. That's it. Two people. Two. 00:10:51.509 --> 00:10:54.409 So on a statewide race, it can definitely make 00:10:54.409 --> 00:10:56.529 the difference. So if you're on the fence and 00:10:56.529 --> 00:10:58.029 you're sitting there saying to yourself, well, 00:10:58.149 --> 00:11:00.429 what can my money do? What can my time do? It 00:11:00.429 --> 00:11:03.690 has an impact. We can probably see that. On a 00:11:03.690 --> 00:11:08.429 national level, who can say? Maybe you're the 00:11:08.429 --> 00:11:11.070 guy that was able to swing that one voter's opinion 00:11:11.070 --> 00:11:13.889 in Philadelphia when you went phone banking for 00:11:13.889 --> 00:11:16.990 random Democratic presidential candidate who's 00:11:16.990 --> 00:11:19.240 running in the primaries. Who knows? But you're 00:11:19.240 --> 00:11:21.059 in the arena. You're making a difference, right? 00:11:21.340 --> 00:11:25.080 Exactly. Exactly. You know, I will say since 00:11:25.080 --> 00:11:27.679 we just kind of got into like campaign stuff. 00:11:28.379 --> 00:11:31.200 We don't have to stay on campaign stuff if it's 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:33.379 too traumatizing for you. Folks, I've been working 00:11:33.379 --> 00:11:36.480 on campaigns since like 2016. Any trauma has 00:11:36.480 --> 00:11:40.639 been long repressed and or dealt with somehow. 00:11:41.299 --> 00:11:44.159 Yeah. Nice. Good save there on the end. And or 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:47.519 dealt with. Yeah. We're trying to get a BetterHelp 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:50.899 sponsorship just for CJ. Appreciate it. Appreciate 00:11:50.899 --> 00:11:54.519 it. I've completely derailed him. I'm so sorry. 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:59.940 So now I will say, you know, all this, you know, 00:11:59.940 --> 00:12:02.220 we're going to be heading to midterms here fairly 00:12:02.220 --> 00:12:08.059 soon, actually. I know it's May 2025. Yeah. It's 00:12:08.059 --> 00:12:10.500 May 2025, but, you know, you have candidates 00:12:10.500 --> 00:12:13.299 who are already declaring. Things are going to 00:12:13.299 --> 00:12:16.559 kick up, so. If you find a race that you're interested 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:19.360 in, again, donate to it, but also try to get 00:12:19.360 --> 00:12:21.639 involved if you can. Yeah. I think more than 00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:24.019 anything, we definitely push people to make sure 00:12:24.019 --> 00:12:26.200 that they know what's going on in their districts. 00:12:26.659 --> 00:12:30.700 Because we can't be the end -all, be -all. WRAL 00:12:30.700 --> 00:12:32.620 isn't going to be the end -all, be -all. News 00:12:32.620 --> 00:12:34.500 and Observer can't tell you the whole picture. 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:37.899 Ultimately, until you get involved and until 00:12:37.899 --> 00:12:39.460 you know the people that we're talking about, 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:43.039 until you take a moment to kind of like... put 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:45.259 the magnifying glass up to your own neck of the 00:12:45.259 --> 00:12:49.120 woods, then you're going to be doom scrolling 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:52.179 still. And I know a lot of those people. They 00:12:52.179 --> 00:12:56.299 come asking me, what can we do about this situation? 00:12:56.600 --> 00:12:58.620 And you know what I tell them? Stop doom scrolling. 00:12:58.620 --> 00:13:02.279 Leave me alone. Is that what you say? No, I say 00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:05.139 stop doom scrolling. You got to stop doom scrolling. 00:13:05.419 --> 00:13:07.940 It's not helping your mental health. It's not 00:13:07.940 --> 00:13:10.799 helping the cause. You're not making yourself 00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:12.740 more aware. You're feeding into the algorithm. 00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:17.320 I say that while CJ sends me like 15 videos a 00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:23.200 day on TikTok and Instagram, respectively. Look, 00:13:23.259 --> 00:13:26.259 sometimes I'm just scrolling and I'm just mad. 00:13:26.539 --> 00:13:28.659 All I'm saying is, folks, you don't have to get 00:13:28.659 --> 00:13:30.539 to the point where you're an addict like CJ is. 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:35.840 You can. You can. Save yourself from this life. 00:13:36.019 --> 00:13:38.659 We have to bear this burden. So you don't have 00:13:38.659 --> 00:13:41.600 to. So you don't have to. Yeah. We're basically 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:42.100 Jesus Chr-. 00:13:46.270 --> 00:13:48.890 So I just want to take a moment 00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:52.299 to say that I completely pushed myself away from 00:13:52.299 --> 00:13:55.759 Adrian here. The podcast is coming to an end. 00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:58.019 He can no longer associate with me. We're going 00:13:58.019 --> 00:14:00.320 to put out a blanket statement. Black text on 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:03.759 a white background. Not as like a text post, 00:14:03.980 --> 00:14:06.240 but as like, you know, when people, when celebrities 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:09.500 do those like texts, posts of an image. That's 00:14:09.500 --> 00:14:12.980 from the notes app. yeah that's the most i think 00:14:12.980 --> 00:14:16.379 disrespectful version of that oh yeah he didn't 00:14:16.379 --> 00:14:18.460 even take the time to like make it look nice 00:14:18.460 --> 00:14:22.080 and format it or anything I... did a a snap 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:25.600 of my phone image and send it to my publisher 00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:29.220 or my my PR person and then that's yeah we'll 00:14:29.220 --> 00:14:32.679 just push that part of me wonders if they do 00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:36.440 that to try and seem you know or down to earth 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:39.720 so say more normal It just kind of makes them 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:43.299 look like an asshole. It really does. Well, that's 00:14:43.299 --> 00:14:46.679 what I was going to say. It is a fine line, for 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:50.159 sure. But if you are doing it as an apology letter, 00:14:51.320 --> 00:14:54.299 you might need to bring it back around to campaigning. 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:57.580 I've noticed that people use the Notes app, like 00:14:57.580 --> 00:15:00.980 Look, to kind of make candidates seem a little 00:15:00.980 --> 00:15:04.940 bit more down to earth. Like, hey, I'm X from 00:15:04.940 --> 00:15:09.470 this district. want to float me five dollars 00:15:09.470 --> 00:15:12.429 and it's like the notes app right and i think 00:15:12.429 --> 00:15:14.909 that that's effective saying you need to apologize 00:15:14.909 --> 00:15:18.950 for some horrible social faux pas that you committed 00:15:18.950 --> 00:15:22.889 to your millions of followers on twitter probably 00:15:22.889 --> 00:15:25.330 let's put a little bit more effort into it yeah 00:15:25.330 --> 00:15:28.250 i get the same anxiety though when i see political 00:15:28.250 --> 00:15:32.570 candidates make user generated content and they're 00:15:32.570 --> 00:15:37.110 just hovering over the the camera like this They're 00:15:37.110 --> 00:15:40.230 like, hey folks, it's Representative Andy something 00:15:40.230 --> 00:15:44.549 from Nevada. And you're just like, can you back 00:15:44.549 --> 00:15:46.950 up, please? I don't need you to be this close 00:15:46.950 --> 00:15:50.230 to me. You remember the Hillary Clinton, I'm 00:15:50.230 --> 00:15:53.149 just chillin in Cedar Rapids? video how could 00:15:53.149 --> 00:15:55.509 i forget it's it's right up there with pokemon 00:15:55.509 --> 00:15:58.090 go to the polls okay now that actually did maybe 00:15:58.090 --> 00:16:01.690 trigger a little ptsd there in his hands folks 00:16:01.690 --> 00:16:04.970 we broke him it only it only took one episode 00:16:04.970 --> 00:16:07.710 of on camera but yes i remember the chilling 00:16:07.710 --> 00:16:10.169 in cedar rapids video because i had just started 00:16:10.169 --> 00:16:12.950 following the potus or the the hillary clinton 00:16:12.950 --> 00:16:15.750 for the what was it it was hillary it was just 00:16:15.750 --> 00:16:17.590 at hillary clinton right something like that 00:16:17.590 --> 00:16:21.500 yeah i just started following her on on instagram 00:16:21.500 --> 00:16:23.200 because i never mess with it but i was like i'll 00:16:23.200 --> 00:16:24.639 get a little more interested i'll get involved 00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:27.100 in politics and then like two days later she 00:16:27.100 --> 00:16:29.379 uploaded that and you immediately unfollowed 00:16:29.379 --> 00:16:32.279 deleted all your accounts i was like you know 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:35.659 what maybe instagram's not for me i clearly don't 00:16:35.659 --> 00:16:38.320 understand it but no i mean yeah you're you're 00:16:38.320 --> 00:16:40.919 the one who doesn't understand it sure yeah right 00:16:40.919 --> 00:16:43.779 yeah no i'll i'll take the fall there Hillary 00:16:43.779 --> 00:16:46.299 you're all good you're you're you're good girl 00:16:46.299 --> 00:16:48.500 i'm sure she'll appreciate that she watches the 00:16:48.500 --> 00:16:52.110 show so Yeah, she does. We got a message from 00:16:52.110 --> 00:16:55.269 her saying she wants to come on here at some 00:16:55.269 --> 00:16:58.610 point and talk. I think she's lying personally. 00:16:58.889 --> 00:17:02.950 No, we shouldn't say that. She has no way to 00:17:02.950 --> 00:17:07.150 respond to this. Bill actually hacked her servers. 00:17:07.369 --> 00:17:10.730 If we could get Bill Clinton on, I think I can 00:17:10.730 --> 00:17:14.369 probably die happy knowing that I got a former 00:17:14.369 --> 00:17:17.470 president on a podcast. Maybe Obama. Obama's 00:17:17.470 --> 00:17:20.589 the pinnacle right now. Honestly. Honestly, anyway, 00:17:20.750 --> 00:17:26.450 we can't get back on track. We do. So, so one 00:17:26.450 --> 00:17:28.869 thing I think just to round this out before we 00:17:28.869 --> 00:17:31.130 get to talking about Wiley is we need to discuss 00:17:31.130 --> 00:17:33.829 some of, some of the bad bills that have kind 00:17:33.829 --> 00:17:36.069 of floated through the general assembly this 00:17:36.069 --> 00:17:38.809 week. And also just kind of talk about the way 00:17:38.809 --> 00:17:43.329 ahead. We we've got a lot coming up, coming down 00:17:43.329 --> 00:17:46.200 the pipeline later on. That is. probably going 00:17:46.200 --> 00:17:48.660 to present itself to be a problem not the least 00:17:48.660 --> 00:17:50.740 of which is the board of elections stuff I mean, 00:17:50.740 --> 00:17:55.200 with the NC DOGE stuff with Destin Hall getting 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:58.680 a lot more maybe not big for his britches but 00:17:58.680 --> 00:18:01.740 he's definitely gotten a lot more bold in recent 00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:05.799 weeks I've noticed yeah i would agree and i mean 00:18:05.799 --> 00:18:07.880 I don't know if part of that is just because 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:10.960 they were trying to get through crossover which 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:12.799 for those of you who don't know what crossover 00:18:12.799 --> 00:18:16.200 is It is essentially a self -imposed deadline 00:18:16.200 --> 00:18:19.859 where if a bill originates in the House and they 00:18:19.859 --> 00:18:21.900 want to send it to the Senate, they have to by 00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:24.019 this date. If a bill originates in the Senate 00:18:24.019 --> 00:18:25.859 and they want to send it to the House, they have 00:18:25.859 --> 00:18:28.819 to send it over by that date. I mean, it's partly 00:18:28.819 --> 00:18:31.299 self -imposed just so that this doesn't go on 00:18:31.299 --> 00:18:35.380 forever because there's an endless number of 00:18:35.380 --> 00:18:38.099 bills that could be voted on and debated and 00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:40.960 whatnot. You got to have a bottleneck somewhere, 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:43.779 right? Exactly. And so I'm wondering if maybe 00:18:43.779 --> 00:18:48.500 just in this rush to get through this crossover 00:18:48.500 --> 00:18:51.000 deadline, why you said this and I was getting 00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:53.000 a little bit more bold. I don't know. Definitely 00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:55.599 seemed that way when I was looking at some of 00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:57.839 the bills that they, like they did shoot down 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:01.480 the complete and total abortion ban. One that 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:05.799 was about to go through, which we even said on 00:19:05.799 --> 00:19:08.079 the podcast, it wouldn't be a good idea if they 00:19:08.079 --> 00:19:11.319 did it. And like, you know as is the running 00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:14.740 theme on this show two days later they they updated 00:19:14.740 --> 00:19:17.940 that and decided not to table it yeah they also 00:19:17.940 --> 00:19:20.180 if I'm not mistaken essentially tabled the bathroom 00:19:20.180 --> 00:19:23.240 bill yeah they did the new version you know which 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:24.880 I'm glad we didn't go into great detail with 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:26.680 because i was like there's no way that they're 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.200 gonna put this up to a vote again I'm glad we 00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:32.690 didn't have to talk about those you know I think 00:19:32.690 --> 00:19:35.490 that people are becoming, maybe not becoming 00:19:35.490 --> 00:19:37.329 a little bit more aware. That's such a boomer 00:19:37.329 --> 00:19:40.269 thing to say. Like somebody who just says, oh, 00:19:40.369 --> 00:19:42.109 I think people are getting more into politics. 00:19:42.170 --> 00:19:45.029 It's like, no, I think I'm becoming more aware 00:19:45.029 --> 00:19:48.430 of other people being aware. You know? Yeah. 00:19:48.529 --> 00:19:52.130 Like other people coming up to me and saying, 00:19:52.269 --> 00:19:54.809 Hey, do you know about this thing? Other people 00:19:54.809 --> 00:19:58.029 cross -posting things on Facebook. Relatives 00:19:58.029 --> 00:20:02.339 that I have that never talk politics. are suddenly 00:20:02.339 --> 00:20:05.720 increasingly getting more aware of the things 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:08.740 that are going on and not in like a in like a 00:20:08.740 --> 00:20:11.160 oh did you see what Donald Trump just did kind 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.920 of way but like one of my relatives was like 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:16.420 posting something about she doesn't even live 00:20:16.420 --> 00:20:18.299 in North Carolina and she was posting something 00:20:18.299 --> 00:20:23.140 about Thom Tillis wow yeah so I was like oh I 00:20:23.140 --> 00:20:26.180 mean like my my mom is actually a great example 00:20:26.180 --> 00:20:29.180 she doesn't really do anything you know super 00:20:29.180 --> 00:20:32.039 political or anything like that um i mean other 00:20:32.039 --> 00:20:36.039 than like vote really right the most patriotic 00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:39.319 thing you could do but like I mean, she you know, 00:20:39.319 --> 00:20:41.640 she's a nurse and she is very concerned about 00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:44.380 like health care cuts and budget cuts and whatnot 00:20:44.380 --> 00:20:49.220 and she's tried reaching out as a constituent 00:20:49.220 --> 00:20:52.059 to organize or to representatives and whatnot 00:20:52.059 --> 00:20:55.240 saying hey these cuts are dangerous you shouldn't 00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:56.839 vote for them you shouldn't you shouldn't do 00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:00.619 them yeah And, you know, it doesn't hurt that 00:21:00.619 --> 00:21:03.799 it affects her more directly a little bit. Yeah. 00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:07.380 Because you've said before, right, your mom leans 00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:11.319 a little bit more conservative. I would say more 00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:14.720 moderate at least, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Now my extended 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:17.579 family, that's all I've read. Hey, all my extended 00:21:17.579 --> 00:21:19.900 family is from Texas, so we're in the same boat 00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:22.859 right there. Once we get that BetterHelp sponsorship, 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:25.319 we can have a therapist on here to talk us through 00:21:25.319 --> 00:21:28.380 those. Through those relationships. Yeah. But 00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:31.319 that being said, I think that we are ready to 00:21:31.319 --> 00:21:34.980 move on to talking with Wiley Nickel. And it 00:21:34.980 --> 00:21:36.819 was a great conversation. I hope you stick around 00:21:36.819 --> 00:21:39.240 for it. In the meantime, make sure to follow 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:43.140 us on Blue Sky, on Twitter. I'm sorry, X, on 00:21:43.140 --> 00:21:47.180 all of the places that we reside on the interwebs. 00:21:47.319 --> 00:21:50.420 You can also listen to us on Spotify, Apple Music, 00:21:50.539 --> 00:21:52.740 wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want 00:21:52.740 --> 00:21:55.759 to support the show. please consider throwing 00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:58.119 us a bone on Patreon or you can just buy us a 00:21:58.119 --> 00:22:01.500 coffee. All those links are going to be in the 00:22:01.500 --> 00:22:04.859 description of the video, the podcast, whatever 00:22:04.859 --> 00:22:08.420 you are listening to, watching or reading, because 00:22:08.420 --> 00:22:11.099 now we also have a sub stack. So if you want 00:22:11.099 --> 00:22:13.779 to read some of these, like the synopsis and 00:22:13.779 --> 00:22:16.880 also listen to the episode back as your own sub 00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:19.799 stack, feel free to visit us there. We'll also 00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:22.980 be doing like little op -eds here and there. 00:22:23.660 --> 00:22:26.460 whenever we see fit so make sure to subscribe 00:22:26.460 --> 00:22:29.440 subscribe subscribe smash the subscribe button 00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:31.680 yeah no seriously folks we got a great conversation 00:22:31.680 --> 00:22:35.079 ahead of us with wiley nickel so stick around 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:43.440 and enjoy welcome welcome welcome back to the 00:22:43.440 --> 00:22:46.339 left of old north we're your hosts adrian and 00:22:46.339 --> 00:22:49.990 i'm cj And today we are joined by someone who 00:22:49.990 --> 00:22:52.470 is right here at the intersection where policy 00:22:52.470 --> 00:22:55.569 meets political reality. Wiley Nickel is a former 00:22:55.569 --> 00:22:58.650 state senator, two -term member of, or one -term 00:22:58.650 --> 00:23:00.890 member of Congress, excuse me, representing North 00:23:00.890 --> 00:23:03.630 Carolina's 13th district, and now a candidate 00:23:03.630 --> 00:23:06.569 for U .S. Senate in what's shaping up to be one 00:23:06.569 --> 00:23:10.509 of 2026's most closely watched races. So we're 00:23:10.509 --> 00:23:12.470 going to dig into a little bit of the why behind 00:23:12.470 --> 00:23:15.869 his run. What he thinks is broken in Washington. 00:23:15.970 --> 00:23:18.589 And I think we can agree that there's more than 00:23:18.589 --> 00:23:21.789 a few things. And what he's prepared to do about 00:23:21.789 --> 00:23:24.190 it if he becomes the next senator from North 00:23:24.190 --> 00:23:26.549 Carolina. Congressman Wiley Nickel, welcome to 00:23:26.549 --> 00:23:29.170 the show. Hey, thanks so much, Adrian. You know, 00:23:29.170 --> 00:23:30.990 I wish it was more than one term in Congress. 00:23:31.069 --> 00:23:34.450 I didn't leave by choice. So, you know, I hope 00:23:34.450 --> 00:23:37.470 the next time I'm on, you know, you can say more 00:23:37.470 --> 00:23:41.559 than one term. Absolutely. Yeah. And that was 00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:44.359 just to slip up. I actually live in your district. 00:23:44.420 --> 00:23:47.700 So it's doubly interesting for me to meet you 00:23:47.700 --> 00:23:50.880 right now. And I wish I could have seen you become 00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:53.839 the congressman from my district still. But that 00:23:53.839 --> 00:23:55.619 actually kind of leads me into something that 00:23:55.619 --> 00:23:58.099 you have dealt with personally and I know was 00:23:58.099 --> 00:24:01.099 a big portion of what you have previously ran 00:24:01.099 --> 00:24:05.839 on, which is Fair Maps. And I know you tried 00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:09.390 to push the Fair Maps Act through Congress. And 00:24:09.390 --> 00:24:12.589 there was issues around that with, I guess it 00:24:12.589 --> 00:24:15.690 got stuck in committee. And I would love to hear 00:24:15.690 --> 00:24:17.789 you talk a little bit more about that and what 00:24:17.789 --> 00:24:20.450 you plan to do in the future. If you continue 00:24:20.450 --> 00:24:25.269 on with the fair maps. push? This is, you know, 00:24:25.289 --> 00:24:27.910 Adrian, the number one thing that's just totally 00:24:27.910 --> 00:24:30.569 screwing up Congress. You know, the system is 00:24:30.569 --> 00:24:32.750 absolutely broken. And if you're going to point 00:24:32.750 --> 00:24:35.450 at one thing that we got to fix to get things 00:24:35.450 --> 00:24:38.049 right in Washington, it's ending partisan gerrymandering. 00:24:38.250 --> 00:24:40.690 You know, we are totally screwed as voters because 00:24:40.690 --> 00:24:43.849 of it, especially here in North Carolina. You 00:24:43.849 --> 00:24:45.470 know, voters should be choosing their politicians, 00:24:45.569 --> 00:24:47.950 not the other way around. And, you know, what 00:24:47.950 --> 00:24:50.430 happened in North Carolina was, you know, I got 00:24:50.430 --> 00:24:52.799 elected with Fair Maps. We had court -drawn maps 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:54.680 that didn't elect. They weren't Democratic maps 00:24:54.680 --> 00:24:56.980 or Republican maps. They were fair maps, and 00:24:56.980 --> 00:24:58.539 they were designed to elect seven Republicans, 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:01.460 six Democrats, and one 50 -50 seat that could 00:25:01.460 --> 00:25:03.279 have gone either way. It was a slightly Republican 00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:06.000 -leaning district, including your hometown of 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:08.680 Clayton. And we won that by three points. It 00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:12.200 was a big win in a district like that. And, you 00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:13.619 know, that's what the district should look like. 00:25:13.859 --> 00:25:16.119 That's how these races should be won. But the 00:25:16.119 --> 00:25:19.920 sad reality is, out of 435 members of Congress, 00:25:20.650 --> 00:25:23.329 Less than 40 of them are in what are considered... 00:25:23.630 --> 00:25:26.130 truly competitive districts. You're talking about 00:25:26.130 --> 00:25:29.009 8% of Congress that are in these districts. 00:25:29.130 --> 00:25:31.529 The other 92 % are in seats that are basically 00:25:31.529 --> 00:25:33.450 guaranteed to whoever wins the Democratic primary 00:25:33.450 --> 00:25:36.450 or the Republican primary. So, you know, this 00:25:36.450 --> 00:25:38.750 is the thing we got to fix. It's the reason why 00:25:38.750 --> 00:25:42.089 we continue to get so little done in Washington. 00:25:42.390 --> 00:25:45.250 You know, if we had more accountability, you 00:25:45.250 --> 00:25:48.289 wouldn't have these sycophants for Trump. They 00:25:48.289 --> 00:25:50.970 would be responsible to the voters, not to do 00:25:50.970 --> 00:25:53.200 whatever Donald Trump tells them to do. That's 00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:54.819 the thing that we got to fix. And I had a bill 00:25:54.819 --> 00:25:57.240 for that, the Fair Maps Act. And we had these 00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:59.640 Duke researchers look at it. This was independent 00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:01.880 redistricting every state. So every state plays 00:26:01.880 --> 00:26:04.460 by the same set of rules. So think Colorado, 00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:07.500 Arizona are kind of good examples. And the Duke 00:26:07.500 --> 00:26:08.859 researchers looked at it and they said, OK, if 00:26:08.859 --> 00:26:11.240 my bill were law, we'd double the number of competitive 00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:14.640 seats from 40 to 80 nationwide. That would be 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:17.500 a sea change in Congress where we'd be able to 00:26:17.500 --> 00:26:21.140 get serious things done instead of this constant. 00:26:21.529 --> 00:26:23.769 fight in washington so that's the thing you know 00:26:23.769 --> 00:26:25.329 one of the reasons why i'm running for the senate 00:26:25.329 --> 00:26:27.769 is because it just takes 50 votes in the senate 00:26:27.769 --> 00:26:31.109 to move a bill like that through along with the 00:26:31.109 --> 00:26:33.190 house and a president willing to sign it so if 00:26:33.190 --> 00:26:34.470 we're ever going to get anything done on the 00:26:34.470 --> 00:26:36.390 net on the federal level it's going to be because 00:26:36.390 --> 00:26:38.309 we move a bill through the the house and senate 00:26:38.309 --> 00:26:42.130 the the audacity of thinking that it's somehow 00:26:42.130 --> 00:26:46.920 controversial to want 80 seats out of 435 House 00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:49.740 seats to be at least somewhat competitive. I 00:26:49.740 --> 00:26:52.119 can't believe it. I will say one thing I'm curious 00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:55.200 about is, you know, how would you try to kind 00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:58.180 of, I guess, move this bill along? I mean, you 00:26:58.180 --> 00:27:01.859 know, Republicans and some Democrats, I don't 00:27:01.859 --> 00:27:04.519 necessarily will. I see, you know, voting for 00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:06.259 what they might see against, you know, their 00:27:06.259 --> 00:27:09.210 own interest. so to say but you know so i think 00:27:09.210 --> 00:27:11.329 i think the the real question is for the voters 00:27:11.329 --> 00:27:12.869 who and they're looking at this and they're seeing 00:27:12.869 --> 00:27:14.569 democrats saying one thing republicans saying 00:27:14.569 --> 00:27:16.569 another there are some states where democrats 00:27:16.569 --> 00:27:19.849 gerrymander but there are a lot more republicans 00:27:19.849 --> 00:27:22.509 heavily gerrymandered like north carolina so 00:27:22.509 --> 00:27:25.329 if you add up all the seats nationwide the non 00:27:25.329 --> 00:27:26.990 -partisan groups including the brennan center 00:27:26.990 --> 00:27:29.049 have kind of come to this conclusion democrats 00:27:29.049 --> 00:27:32.230 are really screwed republicans have a 16 -seat 00:27:32.230 --> 00:27:35.230 gerrymandering advantage nationwide so if you 00:27:35.230 --> 00:27:37.579 just count up all the districts you know obviously 00:27:37.579 --> 00:27:39.640 in some states where there's no where just one 00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:41.440 member of congress they can't gerrymander you 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:43.769 have some states where they have fair processes 00:27:43.769 --> 00:27:47.049 to draw maps, but you have a lot that are partisan 00:27:47.049 --> 00:27:49.789 gerrymandered. So we are down 16 to Republicans 00:27:49.789 --> 00:27:51.809 because they are much more ruthless. They are 00:27:51.809 --> 00:27:54.089 tougher. They're willing to do whatever it takes. 00:27:54.190 --> 00:27:56.849 So for the voters who are like, okay, how are 00:27:56.849 --> 00:27:59.069 we going to make sense of all this? They got 00:27:59.069 --> 00:28:00.890 to trust the Democrats because we are proposing 00:28:00.890 --> 00:28:04.569 fairness. We're the ones who are trying to get 00:28:04.569 --> 00:28:07.190 fairness into the system because we benefit from 00:28:07.190 --> 00:28:10.390 it. Number one. That's why they should trust 00:28:10.390 --> 00:28:12.990 us to do it. And what we're talking about, my 00:28:12.990 --> 00:28:15.910 bill, it's getting five Democrats, five Republicans, 00:28:16.150 --> 00:28:19.109 five independents together with criteria to draw 00:28:19.109 --> 00:28:20.849 fair maps. Now, there's never going to be a perfect 00:28:20.849 --> 00:28:23.849 way to do this, but this has been proven to be 00:28:23.849 --> 00:28:26.210 much, much better. And you get, you know, real 00:28:26.210 --> 00:28:28.450 competition. That's all we really want is to 00:28:28.450 --> 00:28:30.430 have folks accountable to voters in November, 00:28:30.630 --> 00:28:35.789 not to the, you know, to the extremes. general 00:28:35.789 --> 00:28:38.410 elections that are fairly meaningless in terms 00:28:38.410 --> 00:28:41.109 of actually getting a real change. And you actually 00:28:41.109 --> 00:28:42.670 addressed one of the other questions I was going 00:28:42.670 --> 00:28:45.250 to bring up, which was the nonpartisan or independent 00:28:45.250 --> 00:28:49.029 commissions form of that. And I think the other 00:28:49.029 --> 00:28:51.369 question I would roll off the back of that, maybe 00:28:51.369 --> 00:28:55.329 an addendum to it, is do you have any plans or 00:28:55.329 --> 00:28:59.470 do you support things like... term limits yeah 00:28:59.470 --> 00:29:02.130 i mean i i did let me tell you i didn't support 00:29:02.130 --> 00:29:05.250 term limits until i got to congress and i got 00:29:05.250 --> 00:29:08.509 to see a lot of people truly are just there for 00:29:08.509 --> 00:29:11.170 the free shrimp they are not participating and 00:29:11.170 --> 00:29:14.069 this is democrats and republicans so i i i really 00:29:14.069 --> 00:29:16.430 didn't but so the answer to the question is yes 00:29:16.430 --> 00:29:19.789 i do as part of a deal that includes ending partisan 00:29:19.789 --> 00:29:22.930 gerrymandering making it easier to vote if that's 00:29:22.930 --> 00:29:25.079 what it takes to get Republicans and Democrats 00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:27.740 together to fix these big structural problems, 00:29:27.819 --> 00:29:29.599 sure, yeah, no, I think, you know, there's a 00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:33.299 place for that for, you know, looking at 18 years, 00:29:33.359 --> 00:29:36.079 something like that, I think makes a lot of sense. 00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:38.099 And by the way, if you want to talk about term 00:29:38.099 --> 00:29:40.720 limits, I had one Republican colleague in Congress 00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:45.420 who, just like in the middle of term, Her staff 00:29:45.420 --> 00:29:47.819 just checked her into a memory unit and no one 00:29:47.819 --> 00:29:50.500 heard from her until just months left. Everyone 00:29:50.500 --> 00:29:52.880 kept saying, well, where did she go? Where did 00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:55.180 she go? And then some reporter said, oh, she's 00:29:55.180 --> 00:29:59.200 in a memory unit. She got checked in and, you 00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:03.799 know, like that's, if any reason, you know, to 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:07.279 do this, that's certainly one. Yeah, I would 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:10.619 say so. We don't need the Congress becoming a 00:30:10.619 --> 00:30:13.859 nursing home, for sure. And another portion of 00:30:13.859 --> 00:30:15.940 that, like maybe not term limits, but age limits. 00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:20.079 Is there anything that you personally see or 00:30:20.079 --> 00:30:23.039 maybe politically see as viable there? You know, 00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:24.819 I mean, we have age limits for federal judges. 00:30:25.180 --> 00:30:27.319 That's something that we do outside of the Supreme 00:30:27.319 --> 00:30:30.319 Court. I, you know, I think that's a tough one. 00:30:30.519 --> 00:30:33.720 You know, the voters. The Constitution will make 00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:37.119 that very difficult to get age limits. But the 00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:39.259 problem is, the older you get, the longer you 00:30:39.259 --> 00:30:40.960 serve in Congress, the more goodwill you make 00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:43.019 with your voters. I mean, voters hate Congress, 00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:47.119 but they love their member of Congress. You get 00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:49.799 millions of dollars a year to serve your constituents. 00:30:50.299 --> 00:30:52.819 You're smart. You spend a lot of time focusing 00:30:52.819 --> 00:30:55.579 on helping them solve their problems with constituent 00:30:55.579 --> 00:30:58.640 services. So every year, you help thousands and 00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:01.420 thousands of people with real problems, whether 00:31:01.420 --> 00:31:04.859 it's getting a passport at the last minute, getting 00:31:04.859 --> 00:31:07.240 money back from the government. I got somebody. 00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:10.160 you know, over three quarters of a million dollars 00:31:10.160 --> 00:31:12.680 from the IRS. I can tell you that dude, Republican 00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:15.680 or Democrat, is definitely going to be thinking 00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:18.519 good things about me when he goes to vote. So 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:21.200 that just builds up. And so, you know, when you 00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:23.420 have these members who get into their, you know, 00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:25.900 70s and 80s and they've been there 20, 30 years 00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:28.119 and, you know, they know they can do whatever 00:31:28.119 --> 00:31:30.579 they want and nobody's going to be able to dislodge 00:31:30.579 --> 00:31:33.180 them unless they, you know, break faith with 00:31:33.180 --> 00:31:36.619 the party in some horrible way, which, you know. 00:31:37.099 --> 00:31:40.079 almost never happens in congress so you know 00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:43.119 it's it's it's or i i think the best thing we 00:31:43.119 --> 00:31:45.880 can do is make things more competitive fair maps 00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:48.619 would do a lot to help you know solve some of 00:31:48.619 --> 00:31:51.099 those problems yeah three quarters of a million 00:31:51.099 --> 00:31:53.440 dollars i'm gonna have to like call you after 00:31:53.440 --> 00:31:56.619 this and see if you can help me out now um so 00:31:56.619 --> 00:31:59.799 kind of going off of that kind of getting away 00:31:59.799 --> 00:32:02.450 from congress itself but What do you think about 00:32:02.450 --> 00:32:05.069 the idea of term limits for the Supreme Court 00:32:05.069 --> 00:32:08.470 or some federal court reform, expansion, that 00:32:08.470 --> 00:32:11.390 sort of thing? It should just be two Supreme 00:32:11.390 --> 00:32:14.950 Court justices every four years, period. That's 00:32:14.950 --> 00:32:16.990 how it should work. Whoever wins the White House 00:32:16.990 --> 00:32:20.970 gets two, two get off. We can talk about age 00:32:20.970 --> 00:32:23.670 limits that help make that into a reality, but 00:32:23.670 --> 00:32:25.549 that's, I think, the easiest place where you're 00:32:25.549 --> 00:32:28.509 going to get more agreement from folks. That's 00:32:28.509 --> 00:32:31.779 a fairer way to do it. But, you know, we've been 00:32:31.779 --> 00:32:34.279 just totally screwed with the courts over and 00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:36.980 over. We are not tough enough. You know, Obama 00:32:36.980 --> 00:32:40.039 should not have just played dead and not put 00:32:40.039 --> 00:32:42.160 anyone on the court. You know, we had a chance 00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:44.680 to do that. We didn't. And, you know, and then 00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:46.839 the Republicans just rolled all over us over 00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:49.140 and over with these with these with, you know, 00:32:49.140 --> 00:32:52.000 with with the folks that they put on. So, you 00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:54.339 know, part of my whole approach and I think what 00:32:54.339 --> 00:32:56.259 Democrats are really failing to do is just we 00:32:56.259 --> 00:32:57.970 got to be a lot. stronger and a lot tougher. 00:32:58.269 --> 00:33:01.750 And that means not accepting anything less than 00:33:01.750 --> 00:33:04.670 fairness for the highest court in the land. I 00:33:04.670 --> 00:33:08.210 mean, yeah, no, I mean, I think you're right. 00:33:08.309 --> 00:33:10.289 I agree with you. You know, you kind of mentioned 00:33:10.289 --> 00:33:12.109 that Democrats have to kind of get tough and 00:33:12.109 --> 00:33:14.970 whatnot. That kind of leads us into kind of a 00:33:14.970 --> 00:33:17.269 different topic of sorts. And one of these things 00:33:17.269 --> 00:33:20.289 is, you know, at least amongst like the younger 00:33:20.289 --> 00:33:22.569 crowd, so to say, there seems to be a lot of, 00:33:22.569 --> 00:33:24.829 you know, kind of frustration with Democratic 00:33:24.829 --> 00:33:29.789 leadership. Right. So with these younger voters, 00:33:29.869 --> 00:33:31.930 with the younger crowd, what would you say to 00:33:31.930 --> 00:33:35.349 them? You know, some of them are kind of see 00:33:35.349 --> 00:33:40.049 like the DNC, just the Dems as feckless, so to 00:33:40.049 --> 00:33:44.349 say, or just, you know, out of touch. You know, 00:33:44.349 --> 00:33:46.490 some of them are. And, you know, the first thing 00:33:46.490 --> 00:33:48.990 I'd say is don't don't give up on us. Get involved. 00:33:49.150 --> 00:33:52.589 Show up. That's the first thing. And that's how 00:33:52.589 --> 00:33:56.690 you make change. So you don't do it by not getting 00:33:56.690 --> 00:33:59.630 involved. But they're right. When we have our 00:33:59.630 --> 00:34:02.150 leverage, we have to use it. And in the situation 00:34:02.150 --> 00:34:04.769 we find ourselves now in Congress, if the shoes 00:34:04.769 --> 00:34:06.789 were on the other foot with Republicans, they 00:34:06.789 --> 00:34:10.230 would not be doing all the super polite, nice 00:34:10.230 --> 00:34:13.150 things that we're doing right now. They would 00:34:13.150 --> 00:34:16.429 be a lot tougher. And we certainly wouldn't have 00:34:16.429 --> 00:34:20.900 a bad budget right now. And I think that's part 00:34:20.900 --> 00:34:23.719 of it. That is justified frustration when I go 00:34:23.719 --> 00:34:26.059 around and talk. You know, that's really my call 00:34:26.059 --> 00:34:27.900 to action. It's not to the folks who are showing 00:34:27.900 --> 00:34:30.019 up. They're doing their part. The folks who are 00:34:30.019 --> 00:34:31.539 listening to your podcast right here, they are 00:34:31.539 --> 00:34:33.900 part of the solution. They are actively engaged 00:34:33.900 --> 00:34:37.070 in fixing things. You know, it's the elected 00:34:37.070 --> 00:34:39.670 officials that are not doing nearly enough. If 00:34:39.670 --> 00:34:42.050 you're not Cory Booker on the floor of the Senate 00:34:42.050 --> 00:34:45.449 for 25 hours, you are missing the moment here 00:34:45.449 --> 00:34:47.829 with what's happening with Donald Trump. So I 00:34:47.829 --> 00:34:49.829 think that's at least the place that I start. 00:34:50.110 --> 00:34:53.230 Yeah, it's what, there's almost 300, maybe a 00:34:53.230 --> 00:34:55.030 little bit more, Democratic members of Congress. 00:34:55.510 --> 00:34:58.929 Maybe they could all chip in a 25 -hour stint. 00:34:59.429 --> 00:35:03.110 Do you think you might be able to do that? Perhaps 00:35:03.110 --> 00:35:05.869 future Senator Nixon? I guarantee it, when I 00:35:05.869 --> 00:35:08.110 get to the Senate, I'm going to beat Cory Booker's 00:35:08.110 --> 00:35:12.630 record. You heard it here first. That is part 00:35:12.630 --> 00:35:16.289 of the plan. Assuming that Trump is continuing 00:35:16.289 --> 00:35:19.929 to do what he's doing to our democracy, and no 00:35:19.929 --> 00:35:22.030 matter what, he's going to be president for the 00:35:22.030 --> 00:35:24.929 next three and a half years. So we're going to 00:35:24.929 --> 00:35:29.150 have to really focus on how we... you know stand 00:35:29.150 --> 00:35:32.010 up for our principles and stand up to to these 00:35:32.010 --> 00:35:34.550 constant attacks on our democracy and you know 00:35:34.550 --> 00:35:36.849 and really it just it comes down to holding folks 00:35:36.849 --> 00:35:39.590 accountable and there's no greater sycophant 00:35:39.590 --> 00:35:42.690 in the senate who knows what he's supposed to 00:35:42.690 --> 00:35:45.150 do and does the opposite than Thom Tillis so you 00:35:45.150 --> 00:35:46.969 know in this election we get a real chance to 00:35:46.969 --> 00:35:50.090 send a message to you know someone like Tillis 00:35:50.090 --> 00:35:52.750 who continues to enable trump at every step of 00:35:52.750 --> 00:35:56.380 the way yeah that actually leads me into You're 00:35:56.380 --> 00:35:58.440 great with the segues right now. I really appreciate 00:35:58.440 --> 00:36:02.219 that. You're making it easy for us. The Senate 00:36:02.219 --> 00:36:04.460 is often seen as the last check on power before 00:36:04.460 --> 00:36:07.420 something gets to the president's desk, whether 00:36:07.420 --> 00:36:12.000 it's a nomination or a bill or a spending package, 00:36:12.320 --> 00:36:16.619 whatever. So with Thom Tillis out of the picture, 00:36:16.699 --> 00:36:21.019 let's say 2026, you are our next senator. 2027, 00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:24.929 excuse me, you are our next senator. Donald Trump 00:36:24.929 --> 00:36:27.809 still has about two years left of putting forward 00:36:27.809 --> 00:36:32.329 people and bills and such on the docket. What 00:36:32.329 --> 00:36:35.849 is your general approach? as a member of one 00:36:35.849 --> 00:36:38.250 of these committees that may or may not be deciding 00:36:38.250 --> 00:36:40.750 on the future of one of Donald Trump's nominees. 00:36:41.289 --> 00:36:43.250 I mean, the founders were very straightforward 00:36:43.250 --> 00:36:46.409 with their approach to how we're supposed to 00:36:46.409 --> 00:36:48.909 function as a democracy. It involves checks and 00:36:48.909 --> 00:36:51.210 balances. And that's the greatest failure of 00:36:51.210 --> 00:36:53.150 the Congress right now, is that there are no 00:36:53.150 --> 00:36:55.389 checks and balances for Trump. He is literally, 00:36:55.489 --> 00:36:58.289 you know, spreading the Constitution in the Oval 00:36:58.289 --> 00:37:01.480 Office. while Republicans sit on their hands 00:37:01.480 --> 00:37:03.179 and do nothing. Hey, but privately, I can tell 00:37:03.179 --> 00:37:04.699 you, privately, they'll tell you it's horrible. 00:37:04.840 --> 00:37:07.440 They think Trump's an idiot. You know, they hate 00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:10.260 all this stuff. But publicly, all they do is 00:37:10.260 --> 00:37:11.920 say he's the best guy in the world and they do 00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:14.840 nothing to stop him as he continues to just shred 00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:18.480 every single norm we have. So, you know, I think 00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:21.780 that the Senate is the place where we have these 00:37:21.780 --> 00:37:23.760 checks and balances. And I'm in the Senate. You 00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:24.880 know, you're looking for people who actually 00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:28.440 qualified to do their job. And, you know, sometimes... 00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:30.619 You know, the Republican wins the White House, 00:37:30.699 --> 00:37:32.579 they're entitled to have their people in office, 00:37:32.739 --> 00:37:34.780 but they're not entitled to have total idiots. 00:37:35.019 --> 00:37:37.679 And especially, you look at our Secretary of 00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:39.860 Defense, a walking national security disaster, 00:37:40.219 --> 00:37:42.989 a total buffoon. everybody could see the guy 00:37:42.989 --> 00:37:45.530 was unqualified. And Tillis, by the way, said 00:37:45.530 --> 00:37:47.329 he thought he was unqualified. He thought he 00:37:47.329 --> 00:37:50.650 was a bad candidate. He told the sister of the 00:37:50.650 --> 00:37:52.510 wife that if she came public with her story, 00:37:52.929 --> 00:37:55.690 he would vote against Tillis or against Hegseth. 00:37:55.809 --> 00:37:58.250 And then at the last minute on the last day, 00:37:58.349 --> 00:38:01.750 he flipped and voted to confirm Pete Hegseth. 00:38:01.909 --> 00:38:05.809 So that shows, that is the canary in the coal 00:38:05.809 --> 00:38:07.989 mine moment where you see that there are no checks, 00:38:08.170 --> 00:38:11.489 there are no balances, but, you know. We got 00:38:11.489 --> 00:38:14.110 a chance to send a message here. And, you know, 00:38:14.130 --> 00:38:15.710 when I'm in the Senate, we're going to have someone 00:38:15.710 --> 00:38:17.389 who's standing up for what's right for North 00:38:17.389 --> 00:38:19.150 Carolina. I think we're missing that right now. 00:38:19.250 --> 00:38:21.809 So safe to say you would not have confirmed Pete 00:38:21.809 --> 00:38:25.389 Hexeth. Yeah, hard, hard pass. That's good to 00:38:25.389 --> 00:38:28.630 know. We were kind of talking about, like, these 00:38:28.630 --> 00:38:31.250 kind of attacks on the Constitution, on democracy 00:38:31.250 --> 00:38:34.849 and whatnot. You know, what would you say kind 00:38:34.849 --> 00:38:37.269 of, you know, the average person, let's say, 00:38:37.289 --> 00:38:41.050 who's not a member of Congress? What? What can 00:38:41.050 --> 00:38:43.190 they do to kind of fight back against all this? 00:38:43.230 --> 00:38:46.090 Because you have people like Steve Bannon, Stephen 00:38:46.090 --> 00:38:48.989 Miller, I guess a bunch of Steves, just saying 00:38:48.989 --> 00:38:50.449 stuff like, you know, they want to get rid of, 00:38:50.449 --> 00:38:52.769 you know, habeas corpus. And they, you know, 00:38:52.769 --> 00:38:56.210 they will have Trump run for a third term and 00:38:56.210 --> 00:38:58.449 he will win and all this stuff. You know, these 00:38:58.449 --> 00:39:01.800 things are obviously a. massive attack on the 00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:04.059 Constitution. How would you say the average person 00:39:04.059 --> 00:39:06.280 can kind of fight back against that? Well, you 00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:07.840 know, I think one of the first things that's 00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:09.920 important is to educate, you know, to educate 00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:12.519 yourself, understand what's going on. You know, 00:39:12.519 --> 00:39:14.440 Republicans have a real advantage in sort of 00:39:14.440 --> 00:39:17.440 the information ecosystem. You know, they have 00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:21.360 a lot more podcasts and groups focused on putting 00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:23.760 out their far right extreme message. So one of 00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:25.280 the reasons I was excited to come on your podcast 00:39:25.280 --> 00:39:27.420 is this is exactly what we need a lot more of. 00:39:27.500 --> 00:39:30.440 We need more folks like left to vote. Old North 00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:33.960 talking about issues on our side so that, you 00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:36.880 know, we have that balance in terms of that information 00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:39.380 ecosystem. You know, but for folks who are kind 00:39:39.380 --> 00:39:41.679 of looking at the mess in Congress, we listen, 00:39:41.800 --> 00:39:44.000 you know, and as a member of Congress, you know, 00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:46.659 I get detailed information whenever folks contact 00:39:46.659 --> 00:39:48.699 my office, you know, what they're contacting 00:39:48.699 --> 00:39:52.920 us about. We respond, responded to over 200 ,000, 00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:55.800 you know, emails, letters, and other forms of 00:39:55.800 --> 00:39:59.099 communication. And and it matters. So, you know, 00:39:59.099 --> 00:40:02.000 if you're if you're pissed off, you got Thom Tillis 00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:04.440 as your senator. Send him a message. Tell him 00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:07.239 why you're upset. You know, same with your House 00:40:07.239 --> 00:40:09.699 member, whoever it is. And most importantly, 00:40:09.860 --> 00:40:12.079 if it's if you got someone who votes the way 00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:14.400 you agree with on something, tell me you like 00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:16.579 that, too. I think that's an important way to 00:40:16.579 --> 00:40:18.679 help keep folks moving in the right direction, 00:40:18.820 --> 00:40:22.579 too. Well, I appreciate that. And also, I think 00:40:22.579 --> 00:40:26.210 we fully. 100 % agree that we do need more voices, 00:40:26.250 --> 00:40:30.269 not just on the left, but trying to bolster the 00:40:30.269 --> 00:40:31.869 message, the very message that you were trying 00:40:31.869 --> 00:40:34.130 to send right now. So definitely appreciate that. 00:40:34.710 --> 00:40:40.349 You attended an empty town hall, or excuse me, 00:40:40.349 --> 00:40:43.829 a town hall that was held for Congressman Bradnott 00:40:43.829 --> 00:40:48.130 out of your previous district. And he wasn't 00:40:48.130 --> 00:40:51.260 there. You were. You want to tell me a little 00:40:51.260 --> 00:40:53.760 bit about that or tell our viewers a little bit 00:40:53.760 --> 00:40:55.699 about what that was like? You know, these empty 00:40:55.699 --> 00:40:57.480 chair town halls, we've been doing them all over 00:40:57.480 --> 00:40:59.920 the state in these Republican districts because 00:40:59.920 --> 00:41:02.179 they will not show up. And what I can promise 00:41:02.179 --> 00:41:06.199 you about Brad Knott is Brad Knott will not show 00:41:06.199 --> 00:41:08.420 up for his constituents to answer questions. 00:41:08.579 --> 00:41:10.739 Virginia Foxx was very clear about it. Another 00:41:10.739 --> 00:41:13.000 North Carolina Republican member of Congress, 00:41:13.139 --> 00:41:15.099 she said she's not going to do a town hall because 00:41:15.099 --> 00:41:17.179 they're just going to yell at her. And of course, 00:41:17.219 --> 00:41:20.000 when their job is to do whatever Donald Trump 00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:22.219 tells you and to do what's best for Trump instead 00:41:22.219 --> 00:41:24.300 of what's best for North Carolina, your constituents 00:41:24.300 --> 00:41:26.659 are going to yell at you. When I was in Congress, 00:41:26.719 --> 00:41:31.420 I did 16 town halls and I got people protested, 00:41:31.420 --> 00:41:34.599 people yelled. I had tough questions, but I showed 00:41:34.599 --> 00:41:37.340 up and answered them. And that's what is missing 00:41:37.340 --> 00:41:39.719 here because Republicans know they can't answer 00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:42.019 these questions. They can't talk about why Pete 00:41:42.019 --> 00:41:43.920 Hegseth is a good secretary of defense. They 00:41:43.920 --> 00:41:47.309 can't talk about these. blatant attacks on our 00:41:47.309 --> 00:41:50.690 democracy. Donald Trump literally is accepting 00:41:50.690 --> 00:41:55.610 a giant airplane from Qatar. Like he's just taking 00:41:55.610 --> 00:41:57.929 it and he's going to have personal use of it 00:41:57.929 --> 00:42:00.309 after he leaves the White House, too. Like that 00:42:00.309 --> 00:42:02.769 that is exactly what's spelled out in the Constitution. 00:42:02.909 --> 00:42:05.610 Do not accept gifts from foreign nations. I don't 00:42:05.610 --> 00:42:08.409 know any bigger gift you could get than a huge 00:42:08.409 --> 00:42:13.030 luxury airplane. So there's a lot to be upset 00:42:13.030 --> 00:42:15.909 about. And if you ask any Republicans, they are 00:42:15.909 --> 00:42:17.170 not going to be able to answer that question 00:42:17.170 --> 00:42:20.110 in these town halls. But no, you know, my goal 00:42:20.110 --> 00:42:22.670 is to get to every Republican congressional district 00:42:22.670 --> 00:42:25.389 and do these. know empty chair town halls because 00:42:25.389 --> 00:42:27.510 because they can't show up to answer these questions 00:42:27.510 --> 00:42:31.329 yeah i i also can't picture a bigger gift that 00:42:31.329 --> 00:42:33.769 could possibly violate the emoluments clause 00:42:33.769 --> 00:42:38.730 quite like that so if you can find me one like 00:42:38.730 --> 00:42:41.789 maybe a country i think that's the next step 00:42:41.789 --> 00:42:50.289 up i mean just yeah like cartoon bags of cash 00:42:50.289 --> 00:42:54.710 with a dollar sign on it And you know that plane 00:42:54.710 --> 00:42:57.730 is bugged eight ways till Sunday. Yeah, I mean, 00:42:57.730 --> 00:43:00.070 just there's so many things wrong with that. 00:43:00.210 --> 00:43:02.730 And, you know, it's just crickets from folks 00:43:02.730 --> 00:43:05.170 like Thom Tillis and others continue to do whatever 00:43:05.170 --> 00:43:08.769 Trump tells them to do. And it's, you know, it's 00:43:08.769 --> 00:43:12.269 funny, but it's really scary, too. And that's... 00:43:12.539 --> 00:43:15.400 Interesting, too, because like like you were 00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:17.480 saying before, it kind of all encompasses the 00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:19.900 same problem that a lot of these Republicans 00:43:19.900 --> 00:43:22.659 are basically just MAGA Republicans now that 00:43:22.659 --> 00:43:25.800 they're just kind of kowtowing to whatever their 00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:29.219 God Emperor Trump wants. It doesn't matter about 00:43:29.219 --> 00:43:31.039 checks and balances, doesn't really matter about 00:43:31.039 --> 00:43:33.940 separation of powers or anything like that. And 00:43:33.940 --> 00:43:37.400 I pretty much already know the answer, but I 00:43:37.400 --> 00:43:40.599 feel like we need to ask out of posterity, I 00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:46.239 guess. If in 2028, when a new Democratic president 00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:49.260 is elected, will you just go along with whatever 00:43:49.260 --> 00:43:52.099 they say? You know, I think the question for 00:43:52.099 --> 00:43:54.320 anybody who goes to the U .S. House, the Senate, 00:43:54.420 --> 00:43:56.679 is your job is to represent your constituents, 00:43:56.820 --> 00:43:59.500 do what's best for your state. So that's the 00:43:59.500 --> 00:44:03.940 way I approach it. When we win this race and 00:44:03.940 --> 00:44:05.500 get to the Senate, we're going to have Trump 00:44:05.500 --> 00:44:07.320 in the White House for two years, and I hope 00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:09.440 we're going to have somebody, you know, a Democrat 00:44:09.440 --> 00:44:12.000 in the White House two years after that, who's 00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:14.659 going to be able to bring back, you know, and 00:44:14.659 --> 00:44:18.199 fix what will be an absolute mess from Trump. 00:44:18.300 --> 00:44:21.530 I mean, they have just... crashing the federal 00:44:21.530 --> 00:44:24.050 government, the bureaucracy. And folks here in 00:44:24.050 --> 00:44:25.670 North Carolina are getting hurt already. I mean, 00:44:25.690 --> 00:44:28.090 they're slashing funding for programs we rely 00:44:28.090 --> 00:44:30.690 on in our state. You know, the VA, they are cutting 00:44:30.690 --> 00:44:33.929 80 ,000 VA jobs nationwide. That's going to be 00:44:33.929 --> 00:44:36.650 absolutely horrible for our veterans who need 00:44:36.650 --> 00:44:40.750 good quality health care. Retirees who are counting 00:44:40.750 --> 00:44:43.789 on Social Security, they're cutting 12 ,000 jobs 00:44:43.789 --> 00:44:45.469 from the Social Security Administration. It's 00:44:45.469 --> 00:44:47.869 going to be much harder to get that Social Security 00:44:47.869 --> 00:44:50.449 check if there's any problems. Very rarely going 00:44:50.449 --> 00:44:52.070 to be someone who's going to be answering the 00:44:52.070 --> 00:44:55.449 phone anytime soon for folks. There are mountains 00:44:55.449 --> 00:44:58.710 of these stories, and we are losing thousands 00:44:58.710 --> 00:45:01.769 and thousands of good paying jobs as they're 00:45:01.769 --> 00:45:07.170 slashing the EPA. Right by me and Kerry, we have 00:45:07.170 --> 00:45:08.929 the... you know, Research Triangle Park, where 00:45:08.929 --> 00:45:11.690 they're going to, you know, the 1 ,200 folks 00:45:11.690 --> 00:45:13.829 who are studying how to make sure we have clean 00:45:13.829 --> 00:45:15.889 air and clean water and doing other great things 00:45:15.889 --> 00:45:18.710 there at that campus are going to be out of work. 00:45:19.210 --> 00:45:21.250 I mean, I could go on and on about this, but 00:45:21.250 --> 00:45:25.550 incredibly damaging. And, you know, I'm hopeful 00:45:25.550 --> 00:45:29.610 we're going to make it. I know we will, but it's 00:45:29.610 --> 00:45:31.550 going to take folks getting there and showing 00:45:31.550 --> 00:45:36.110 up and fighting to protect this amazing, great 00:45:36.110 --> 00:45:39.329 experiment in self -governance that hasn't even 00:45:39.329 --> 00:45:42.110 made it 250 years here. So we've got a lot to 00:45:42.110 --> 00:45:45.469 get excited about and to fight for. What is one 00:45:45.469 --> 00:45:48.929 Senate rule that you would change? tomorrow, 00:45:48.929 --> 00:45:51.889 if you could? I don't know. I mean, I spent my 00:45:51.889 --> 00:45:56.090 time in the House, so I was more focused on House 00:45:56.090 --> 00:45:57.570 rules. I can tell you the one thing that I think 00:45:57.570 --> 00:45:59.449 would make a huge difference in the House right 00:45:59.449 --> 00:46:03.210 now is they used to have, the House used to be 00:46:03.210 --> 00:46:06.170 a place where the majority of the members of 00:46:06.170 --> 00:46:08.440 the House would get their way. And that doesn't 00:46:08.440 --> 00:46:11.500 happen anymore. You have the Hastert rule where 00:46:11.500 --> 00:46:15.440 the Republicans want more than half of the majority 00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:17.679 to support anything before they allow a vote. 00:46:17.780 --> 00:46:22.559 So Hastert, a child pedophile who I think is 00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:25.039 still in jail or maybe he passed away, but this 00:46:25.039 --> 00:46:27.460 is the guy that they named the rule for, that 00:46:27.460 --> 00:46:30.219 invented this rule, to be the Republican speaker. 00:46:30.539 --> 00:46:34.570 And so if you've got... You know, 218 members 00:46:34.570 --> 00:46:37.050 who want to vote for something, you can't get 00:46:37.050 --> 00:46:39.550 it done. And so these discharge petitions are 00:46:39.550 --> 00:46:42.469 controlled by the leadership, and they're made 00:46:42.469 --> 00:46:45.269 public. You know, the way, if you want to have 00:46:45.269 --> 00:46:47.289 a vote on a bill, you've got to have a public 00:46:47.289 --> 00:46:49.469 vote. It used to be it was a private, a secret 00:46:49.469 --> 00:46:51.630 vote. So one of the things for the House, at 00:46:51.630 --> 00:46:54.510 least, that I think I would like to change is 00:46:54.510 --> 00:46:57.929 you make discharge petitions anonymous, you know, 00:46:57.929 --> 00:47:00.849 a secret vote, the way they used to be. This 00:47:00.849 --> 00:47:03.750 was before Newt Gingrich. And that would allow 00:47:03.750 --> 00:47:07.030 folks, you know, not to be able to hide and they'd 00:47:07.030 --> 00:47:08.909 be able to actually get a vote on the things 00:47:08.909 --> 00:47:10.909 that they want to vote for. So, you know, we 00:47:10.909 --> 00:47:12.750 did a lot of work with, you know, a bipartisan 00:47:12.750 --> 00:47:14.849 immigration and border security bill when I was 00:47:14.849 --> 00:47:17.110 in the House. But the Republicans would never 00:47:17.110 --> 00:47:19.250 let us get to the floor with the vote. This, 00:47:19.269 --> 00:47:21.250 you know, this one rule change would have made 00:47:21.250 --> 00:47:23.829 sure we could have had an up or down vote. Goodness. 00:47:24.230 --> 00:47:29.349 It's insane to me just how one little rule can 00:47:29.349 --> 00:47:36.099 screw so much up. It's ridiculous. Yeah, we've 00:47:36.099 --> 00:47:39.059 gone over a few of those during the run of this 00:47:39.059 --> 00:47:42.119 podcast. So for anybody who's listening right 00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:44.820 now, make sure to finish this one and then go 00:47:44.820 --> 00:47:46.260 back and listen to the other ones because we 00:47:46.260 --> 00:47:48.800 broke down some really bad bills and House and 00:47:48.800 --> 00:47:50.780 Senate rules from the North Carolina General 00:47:50.780 --> 00:47:53.780 Assembly, which I'm sure Mr. Wiley Nickel here 00:47:53.780 --> 00:47:57.440 knows a little bit about as well. Now, we only 00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:00.619 have a few minutes left, so I wanted to ask you, 00:48:00.699 --> 00:48:04.280 should we do the last question first, or do you 00:48:04.280 --> 00:48:05.780 have another question? I was going to say, we 00:48:05.780 --> 00:48:08.099 can do the last question, well, last, because 00:48:08.099 --> 00:48:10.380 I think that would be a little wrap -up. But 00:48:10.380 --> 00:48:13.719 who is one Democrat in office today that you 00:48:13.719 --> 00:48:17.539 kind of look to for leadership? We've got a lot 00:48:17.539 --> 00:48:21.599 of great members in the House and Senate. I worked 00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:24.460 with a ton of folks during my time in the House. 00:48:25.340 --> 00:48:27.500 And there's just so many good friends. You hate 00:48:27.500 --> 00:48:30.179 to sort of name just a few of them. But, you 00:48:30.179 --> 00:48:33.440 know, I think you've got a ton of great members 00:48:33.440 --> 00:48:36.119 in North Carolina who are fighting hard. I really 00:48:36.119 --> 00:48:37.880 enjoyed working with Adam Schiff in the House, 00:48:37.940 --> 00:48:40.860 who's now in the Senate. Ruben Gallego, you know, 00:48:40.860 --> 00:48:42.719 another great House member who's in the Senate. 00:48:43.019 --> 00:48:45.719 So, you know, I kind of look to folks who are 00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:49.079 able to do well in the kind of district that 00:48:49.079 --> 00:48:50.760 I want in. Those are the people I spend a lot 00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:53.940 of time with. And, you know, so, you know, Alyssa 00:48:53.940 --> 00:48:56.579 Slotkin. Michigan, another, you know, great member 00:48:56.579 --> 00:48:58.380 of the House who went to the Senate, flipping, 00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:01.179 you know, states that Trump won, you know, for 00:49:01.179 --> 00:49:03.380 Democrats. So I think, you know, folks who are 00:49:03.380 --> 00:49:05.480 really focused on solving problems, those are 00:49:05.480 --> 00:49:08.059 the members that I kind of spent a lot of time 00:49:08.059 --> 00:49:10.880 working with and think, you know, kind of are 00:49:10.880 --> 00:49:15.139 on the right track. We got one, like, really 00:49:15.139 --> 00:49:17.440 hard -pressed question for you, so I hope you're 00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:21.579 ready for this. What is your go -to cookout menu? 00:49:22.190 --> 00:49:25.090 item the the whole like the whole menu or the 00:49:25.090 --> 00:49:30.730 whole truck what's your go -to meal let me put 00:49:30.730 --> 00:49:33.369 it that way i i think all right so so took out 00:49:33.369 --> 00:49:38.070 number one that it is a scientific you know thing 00:49:38.070 --> 00:49:41.030 here the later it is at night the better it tastes 00:49:41.030 --> 00:49:43.949 so the longer you wait to go the better it's 00:49:43.949 --> 00:49:46.210 going to taste but it's it's usually like you 00:49:46.210 --> 00:49:49.929 know cheeseburger cajun fries oreo shake maybe 00:49:49.929 --> 00:49:52.230 i'll get onion rings it depends it just again 00:49:52.230 --> 00:49:55.800 it depends on how late it is Right. So if it's 00:49:55.800 --> 00:49:58.199 later, are you getting a shake or are you waiting 00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:00.619 until it's like the last possible minute? It 00:50:00.619 --> 00:50:06.659 depends on how late it is at night. But that 00:50:06.659 --> 00:50:11.380 is absolute proven scientific information there. 00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:15.059 Later at night, the better it tastes. Is that 00:50:15.059 --> 00:50:17.860 good campaign trail food or is it more like, 00:50:18.000 --> 00:50:20.309 hey, maybe we should... Maybe we should wait 00:50:20.309 --> 00:50:22.489 on the cookout until we're at the end of a week 00:50:22.489 --> 00:50:25.949 or something. I mean, when you're running from 00:50:25.949 --> 00:50:28.409 Murphy to Manio, you take what you can get. I've 00:50:28.409 --> 00:50:31.230 been trying to pack some snacks and meals as 00:50:31.230 --> 00:50:35.530 I'm traveling more. So like a banana and a peanut 00:50:35.530 --> 00:50:38.269 butter and jelly often make it happen for me. 00:50:38.389 --> 00:50:41.250 But we're a little more into Taco Bell lately. 00:50:41.449 --> 00:50:44.869 We've got a lot of Taco Bell fans on the campaign. 00:50:44.929 --> 00:50:49.679 So usually that's the late at night. fast food 00:50:49.679 --> 00:50:53.039 that we end up with a little more right now gotcha 00:50:53.039 --> 00:50:56.480 well congressman nickel it has been awesome to 00:50:56.480 --> 00:50:59.079 get to talk to you and to get to know a little 00:50:59.079 --> 00:51:01.679 bit more about what your campaign's about and 00:51:01.679 --> 00:51:07.019 we wish you luck in both now and in 2026 and 00:51:07.019 --> 00:51:10.460 if you could for us in five words or less could 00:51:10.460 --> 00:51:13.949 you sum up what this senatorial campaign for 00:51:13.949 --> 00:51:17.110 you is about? I'm not good at condensing. I can 00:51:17.110 --> 00:51:19.809 tell you, for folks who want to learn about that 00:51:19.809 --> 00:51:22.409 without a ton of words, visit wileynickel.com. 00:51:22.690 --> 00:51:25.989 But the simple message, it's really simple here. 00:51:26.070 --> 00:51:27.929 I mean, Donald Trump is screwing North Carolina 00:51:27.929 --> 00:51:30.989 families. Tax cuts for billionaires is not helping. 00:51:31.349 --> 00:51:33.349 We're focusing on solving problems, bringing 00:51:33.349 --> 00:51:36.170 down the cost of housing, making sure we invest 00:51:36.170 --> 00:51:39.969 in public education. affordable housing, affordable 00:51:39.969 --> 00:51:43.659 childcare, middle class tax cuts. These are things 00:51:43.659 --> 00:51:45.800 that will help folks. What Donald Trump is doing 00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:48.099 is only helping his billionaire friends. And 00:51:48.099 --> 00:51:49.820 that's a simple message. And we're seeing it 00:51:49.820 --> 00:51:52.139 play out right now in Washington in real time. 00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:56.179 So I think that's the simplest and quickest way 00:51:56.179 --> 00:52:00.019 I can condense it for you. And I just hope, CJ, 00:52:00.099 --> 00:52:02.320 afterwards, if there's a way that I can help 00:52:02.320 --> 00:52:03.880 you get some money back from the federal government, 00:52:04.019 --> 00:52:07.780 I will absolutely be glad to do it. Most people 00:52:07.780 --> 00:52:11.500 don't have $750 ,000 they're trying to get back 00:52:11.500 --> 00:52:14.579 from the IRS. But if you do, you know, you've 00:52:14.579 --> 00:52:17.900 got someone in your corner. Good to know. That's 00:52:17.900 --> 00:52:20.420 about it for this interview with Congressman 00:52:20.420 --> 00:52:23.199 Wiley Nickel, who is currently running for Senate 00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:28.320 in 2026 against the incumbent Republican Tom 00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:31.800 Tillis. And if you want to help out his campaign. 00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:34.739 Where do they need to go to donate? 00:52:34.739 --> 00:52:37.840 wileynickel.com is our website, and at Wiley Nickel on pretty 00:52:37.840 --> 00:52:41.860 much every social media platform. We're seeing 00:52:41.860 --> 00:52:43.960 a lot of good growth with BlueSky. That's another 00:52:43.960 --> 00:52:46.500 great place to visit as well. I know you guys 00:52:46.500 --> 00:52:49.300 are there. I encourage folks to connect with 00:52:49.300 --> 00:52:51.360 us. All right. Well, thank you, sir. Appreciate 00:52:51.360 --> 00:52:53.500 you coming on with us. Appreciate your time. 00:52:53.820 --> 00:52:56.659 You know what? Come back on after you win. It's 00:52:56.659 --> 00:52:59.650 a promise. Awesome. All right. Awesome. Looking 00:52:59.650 --> 00:53:01.630 forward to it. You guys, you're going to have 00:53:01.630 --> 00:53:04.590 to come to Washington and do the interview in 00:53:04.590 --> 00:53:07.690 the Senate. How about that? You know what? I 00:53:07.690 --> 00:53:10.590 can't say no to that. I cannot say no to that. 00:53:11.230 --> 00:53:14.429 That is a hard yes, no matter what. Lesson on 00:53:14.429 --> 00:53:18.150 the road. I like it. Yeah. We'll see you in the 00:53:18.150 --> 00:53:20.550 rotunda. Is that where we can do interviews? 00:53:21.349 --> 00:53:23.630 Yeah, sure. All right. We'll make it happen. 00:53:24.070 --> 00:53:26.550 Awesome. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your time.