Welcome, welcome, welcome back to The Left of
Old North, where we bring progressive insight
to North Carolina politics to the best of our
ability. I'm your host, Adrian. And I'm CJ. And
today, we're sitting down with somebody who's
actually been in the thick of it, the Honorable
Chaz Beasley. Chaz represented House District
92 in the North Carolina General Assembly, serving
part of Mecklenburg County during a time of major
growth and political transformation. a Harvard
and Georgetown Law graduate, he brought a fresh,
policy -driven voice to Raleigh, and he didn't
stop there. Because in 2020, Chas ran statewide
for Lieutenant Governor, bringing attention to
issues like economic mobility, education, equity,
and justice reform, all with a focus on building
a North Carolina that works for everyone, not
just for those in power. And today, we're going
to talk to him a little bit about his time in
the legislature, some lessons from running a
statewide campaign. what the future looks like
for Democrats in our state, and how you juggle
all that while being both an attorney and a dad.
Chaz Beasley, welcome to the show. Adrian, CJ,
thanks for having me. It's a pleasure for us.
You are our first either former or current representative
that has been on the show. So big, big props
to you. on that. Congratulations. No, I appreciate
that. I mean, when, when you're, you know, when
you're retired, like me and old man rocking chair,
you got a lot of time to talk to the, to the
people. So that's exactly how it went down. We,
we went up the drive up to the porch. He was
sitting there on the rocking chair and it's like,
what do you want? Yeah. Yep. It's like a, like
Stewie and family guy when he's rocking and he's
like, it's good to have land. Well, Chaz, we
definitely have a lot of questions for you just
because you're, what, 38, 39. Maybe I missed
a birthday. But you've done a lot. 39. You've
done a lot in that time. And I feel like that's
a bit of an understatement. So it's cool to see
somebody under 50 accomplish as much as you have.
And also, just putting your neck out there, I
think, is something that... we definitely give
people props for on the show, even if, like in
2020, there was somebody else that was chosen
in the primary for lieutenant governor. So just
want to thank you there as well. Oh, yeah, no,
I appreciate it. I mean, it really has been the
honor of my lifetime to be able to serve. The
good thing is having not been in elected office
for the past four years, I can tell you not only
is there life after politics, but there's a lot
of work to do that doesn't require you to have
honor. Right. Yeah. And in those four years,
do you miss it at all? I definitely would say
that the fact that you have a job where the decisions
that you make. directly impact people's lives
for the better or for the worse. I think that's
a tremendous responsibility. And you never have
to wonder when you finish a day at work in a
legislature, whether you made an impact. It may
have been small, may have been, you know, you,
you know, giving it the old college drive and
it not really turning out well, or it could be
great. But that type of fulfillment is, is something
that a lot of people never have the opportunity
to to sense. So I feel very honored to be able
to do it. But I also know, you know, to everything,
there's a season. I'm very happy to be able to
do the things that I've been able to do in this
season of my life. So, and this might seem like
kind of a basic kind of question, but for those
listeners who might not know, what exactly did
your kind of day -to -day at the General Assembly
look like? Like Adrian said, you're the first
current or former member that we've had, so it
might be a good time to kind of educate the audience.
Yeah, yeah. So the typical day at the legislature
is not typical, right? There's just no telling
what the day is going to bring when you're up
there. Some days you think, oh, this is going
to be really calm. We're going to be in, we're
going to be out. And then it ends up being super
long. There are some days where you think, oh
my gosh, this is going to be the longest thing
ever. And then, you know, it ends up being pretty
non -controversial and people come in, they come
out, they're done. I would say that most weeks
are probably, I'd say it's easier to describe
a week in the legislature than it is to describe
a day in the legislature. And the reason I say,
yeah, the reason that I say that is because generally
you can assume that your busiest days are going
to be Tuesdays and Wednesdays. You can generally
assume you're going to be coming up there on
a Monday and leaving on a Thursday. And you can.
Basically assume that as the session goes along,
each week gets progressively more packed until
you hit what's known as crossover, where basically
bills have to cross over from one house to the
other. They have to be passed by one house to
make it to the other house or else they die and
vice versa. And then it kind of calms down. And
then each week it gets busier and busier and
busier to get to the budget. calms down until
you get to the budget and then the budget is
this crazy week. So I would say it's, it's a
lot harder to plan your day at the legislature
than it is to plan your week at the legislature.
Interesting. Now, and I know that like the calendar,
it's just, it has to always be changing, especially
when like somebody has to push back committee
meetings and things like that. So like, do you've
been a word maybe out of left field kind of.
question do you feel like that's kind of by design
or is it just like to err as human uh on that
yeah it's definitely by design i think that if
um if the legislature if i'll speak for the house
which is the one that i was in if you wanted
the house to have a more regular predictable
schedule and you're in leadership in the house
you totally do it now when you're in the minority
You can't, right? You can't control the calendar.
But there's no reason why there can't be more
predictability. But the lack of predictability
makes it easier to, especially in a legislature
where you're on the cusp of something, you're
on the cusp of supermajority or on the cusp of
a majority. You can kind of keep people on their
toes and take advantage of the fact that people,
you know, also have lives. And so they may have
to, you know, go to this or go to that. I have
a doctor's appointment. I got to pick my kids
up. And so they can kind of use that to take
advantage of the fact that somebody is missing
on a crucial vote, count the people in the room
and then call a vote. Right. So, no, there are
a lot of things about the legislature that make
it very difficult for, you know, just your everyday
person to serve. And the crazy calendar is one
of them. But it's definitely by design. Can you
control the chaos completely? No. I mean, in
any job you're going to have. to be nimble in
some sense but it's definitely more on the side
of let's keep things a little un for a lot of
unpredictable uh because there's political advantage
to that right so so do you think that maybe then
this uh This might be a bit more conspiracy -brained,
but do you think that the Republican majority
has maybe like an internal calendar that they
don't share with everybody else? That's not conspiracy.
The majority caucus always knows more about what's
going on in the majority caucus. Always. And
yeah, they take advantage of that, right? You
know, if you're ahead in the game, you know,
what's going on in your huddle probably matters
a little bit more than what's going on the other,
right? Right. So, yeah, they definitely know
more about kind of what the game plan is and
what the schedule looks like. And if they don't
think they're going to have, you know, some of
their folks there, they're definitely going to,
you know, adjust their calendar accordingly because
they're going to say, oh, such and such can't
be here. So, yeah, no, that's not conspiracy.
That's just them taking advantage of the fact
that they run a show. It's just strategy Yeah,
they definitely get a love that they, you know,
play games instead of actually helping people.
But, you know, that's me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I
mean, it's definitely frustrating. And my thing
is, I love when people make the argument like,
oh, well, the Democrats did this. And so when
they were in power, I'm like, number one, that
was, you know, I mean, they've been in the majority
since basically 2011. So we've now been at this
for a decade and a half at some point. you know
you gotta start actually having conversations
about what you think is best for the state and
not keep trying to not not continuing to try
to do this whole well you know y 'all did it
so we're gonna do it too stuff like that like
it's been it's been almost 15 years that y 'all
been running the show you know the democrats
did this so we're gonna do it too like be your
own person people who are in leadership really
need to just be their own person like they can't
always live through the lens of what democrats
did a decade and a half ago um and if you really
think that something needs to change then change
it if you think something needs to be better
in the legislature make it better you've had
15 years you know those those wounds are not
still fresh so why why are you still you know
putting the the entire state at a disadvantage
Because you refuse to make the changes that need
to be made to actually have, you know, we want
to have a citizen legislature. Cool. Let's have
a citizen legislature. Make it so that citizens
can actually serve. Right. So. Let me ask you
this. Short of absolute, like, miracle, divine
intervention type of thing, what do you think
it would take for the Republican leadership to
stop playing this kind of blame game and, you
know, being stuck 15 years in the past? Oh, I
mean, it's going to take either Democrats, either
looking like Democrats are in a position to materially
eat into the majority that they have or get to
a majority. Now, some people, you know, I know
this is a completely different topic, but I think
it needs to be said. You have some people that
treat politics as though it's like physics, right?
That there are just these laws of political gravity
and you can't change it. There's no way to change
it. fast i mean my first just take a flashback
back to 2004 which is the first presidential
election i could vote in you had george bush
win reelection and everybody thought and he won
reelection with a strong popular vote number
And so a lot of people were like, man, Democrats
are just in trouble, man. And in 2006, Democrats
had a phenomenal year. In 2008, we had Barack
Obama elected. So I'm just not one of these people
who believe that in politics, you know, that
there are just these immutable facts, like things
have to happen a certain way, and that it's just
impossible for Democrats to ever get back to
the majority ever. History doesn't bear that
out. And also, politicians love sports analogies,
right? But I'm going to use one anyway because
it needs to be said. They play so well. I know,
right? In football, I remember when we used to
play football, we used to always say, the only
thing prevent defense does is prevent you from
winning the game. If you try not to lose, you
will... put yourself in a position to lose. You
might not lose. You might actually squeak it
out. But you got to play aggressive, right? And
I think that a lot of people just assume that,
like, Democrats are just doomed all the time.
And those are the times when, especially in politics,
you tend to overplay your hand. And that's when
you start seeing, you know, yourself get knocked
on your tail, frankly. And that can definitely
happen with this legislature. I would not bank
on the Republicans just... forever and ever running
the show now if they continue to be able to draw
the lines every 10 years that's a huge advantage
right that you can't deny um and sometimes and
depending on how they do it an unfair one um
but it doesn't mean that we should just pretend
like oh yeah we're just doomed for another 10
years let's all go home i don't think that's
the right approach No, I think we wholeheartedly
agree. And I mean, I'll flip the page one more.
You brought up 2006 and 2008. And let's not forget
that in 2010, the Tea Party movement was nationwide
and led to a multitude of state legislatures
and even Congress swinging to the right. So,
I mean, politics is very fluid. There's no doubt
about that. Yeah. I think you bring up an interesting
point, too, that. Because it's not set in stone,
there are not these immutable characteristics
in both the electorate and in politicians. Things
are going to change whether the majority likes
it or not. And they should be worried that...
there's, you know, whether it's on the horizon,
near or far, that that change is going to be
at their doorstep. And it depends entirely on
them as to whether they're going to be ready
for it or not. And that leads me into my question
for you with both your time in the legislature
and as just a member of the Democratic Party
in general. Do you think that the General Assembly
has become the Democratic? side of the General
Assembly has become more reactionary because
of the way that the General Assembly operates
underneath the Republican supermajority before
majority now? Or do you think that perhaps the
Democratic Party has not quite met the moment?
Like, what is the gap here that needs to be filled?
Yeah, I think that there's, I think there's kind
of two things that I saw while I was in there
that are definitely playing themselves out. Number
one, you definitely saw that once the Republicans
got back into the majority, they did that by
beating a lot of conservative Democrats in pretty
conservative seats, right? North Carolina's Democratic
Party is not some like mad liberal, you know,
completely like all about national progressive
issues type party. It's never been that. And
so a lot of the people who got beat in 2010,
in the year that you were talking about, were
a lot of those Democrats that a lot of them had
a good amount of power and they were pretty conservative.
Well, that left kind of this. group of Democrats
that were used to being in power, also pretty
conservative, in their mind, pretty pragmatic,
but there weren't a large number of them. And
that ended up leaving a lot of Democrats that
are from like more the cities that were a lot
of times more to the left than the more rural
Democrats that were more conservative. And so
basically, that ended up creating a dynamic where
you had the people who used to run the show when
the show was being run by Democrats, and then
you had people that really had never been running
the show that now felt like they could actually,
you know, kind of affect the direction of the
caucus itself. And what you've seen is, of course,
the conservatives have shrunk and shrunk and
shrunk and shrunk, especially once the lines
are drawn. They were drawn to break, right? And
more and more of the... uh party has become more
and more to the left because they're coming from
places where that's their electorate so you end
up now and then you add so you add that that
number shrinking but then you add that on top
of the fact that the republicans have drawn the
lines to get them pretty close to super majorities
if not over super majorities so that means that
this shrinking number of people also has an increasing
amount of power outside the caucus when inside
the caucus, their numbers and their voice is
frankly becoming smaller and smaller because
they have fewer and fewer of them, right? So
you have that tension that plays out in public
as like, oh, it's a Democrat's in a rift. It's
really not. It's really kind of a change. that
has happened over the last 15 years in kind of
an inevitable change, but it plays itself out.
It's almost like it's, in other words, more like
it's a feature, not a bug. Sure, yeah. Because
guess what? If the Republicans had 65 seats,
no disrespect to the more conservative members
of the Democratic caucus, but they would have
zero power. Because they would have no power
within the caucus because they'd have too few
people. They'd have no power outside the caucus
because the Republicans wouldn't need them because
they're nowhere close to majority. It really
is a particular feature of the fact that the
Republicans have drawn themselves into situations
where they should. where they think they should
be getting super majorities, and they just can't
quite get there without some sort of lucky break.
Somebody switches. Somebody changes parties.
Somebody blows a race because they got caught
napping. Like, they really haven't been able
to get themselves over that hump. But if the
Democrats can consolidate and get some wins in
some districts that are coming our way, that
situation will resolve itself. Yeah, it's almost
a prison of their own making because they have
drawn themselves into a supermajority or at current
time, a majority inching at the edge of a supermajority,
but not quite enough to actually deny the fact
that this state votes pretty 50 -50, not always,
but pretty close most of the time. especially
in recent years. Right, right. And look, I think
I don't know if I'm breaking any news on your
podcast, but if the Republicans could ignore
all the Democrats, some of them would still try
to create relationships across the aisle. But
a good number of the ones that are in leadership
right now, if they could ignore the party completely,
they would gladly do that. right let's not pretend
let's not pretend like they're like they're i
i definitely worked with some people who are
still there who very much had that old school
mentality and very much did try to build relationships
across the aisle you knew where we could agree
and you knew where we couldn't and it was all
good but there are some that are like if If the
legislature was 120 House Republicans and 50
Senate Republicans, they'd be cool with that.
There are some people who believe that. That
would be terrible for North Carolina. It's not.
It wouldn't be good for North Carolina to be.
Maybe. So don't get it twisted. When they come
to y 'all, Democratic members in the House and
the Senate, they're doing it because they need
the numbers. They have a Democratic governor
who can veto their stuff and whose veto can be
sustained. So let's be real here. Don't get it
twisted. So CJ, I see that you have a... a question
on the tip of your tongue, but I have to interject
real quick to ask. So Chaz, with this change
in the leadership, kind of like you're talking
about that maybe they once were willing to work
across the aisle, not so much anymore. Do you
see that same trend continuing with the new Speaker
of the House, Destin Hall? We've seen a little
bit of how he operates in the General Assembly,
but not so much long term. You were in the General
Assembly when... representative tim moore was
speaker and i was hoping you could tell us a
little bit about what that was like and then
also what you foresee with this new speaker taking
over things yeah so uh destin and i actually
came into the legislature in the exact same at
the exact same time same class um and um he's
we're actually around the same age believe it
or not um so a lot of overlap in our careers.
I think that Destin is much more of a true believer
than Tim Moore. Can you expand upon that? What
do you mean by true believer? Yeah, so I think
that Destin very much came up at a time when
Republicans ran the show. He's actually from
one county over from where I grew up. So he's
from a pretty, I'm from a pretty red area too.
Catawba County, I was born in Iredell. county
lived in alexander county and catawba county
literally all three counties uh trump 60 plus
so i'm i i i learned how to i learned how to
argue early I'm sure that helped you in law school,
too. It definitely did. I'm sure it drives my
wife crazy sometimes, but she's she's got the
patience of a saint. But but, you know, so he
he he's not like he didn't grow up or come up
in the legislature like a Tim Moore or even like
a Tom Tillis, frankly, where they had to know
how to make deals to actually get things done.
He's much more the kind of person that, you know.
he's totally cool with running the controversial
bills. He's totally cool with getting his, like
getting his caucus in line, making sure that
people are not breaking. Like he's, he's got
a, but the thing, but when I say he's a true
believer, what I mean is like, he's not, there
are some people who. are, they are, I would say,
much more, like, I'm willing to kind of see both
sides. Like, I think he's a conservative through
and through. And I think he would probably agree
with me that he's a conservative through and
through. I think that he probably, you know,
he's like, yeah, yeah, please say that louder.
But I think that if he thinks that he can get
to 72 on a number, but it's something that he
doesn't like, I think he's going to try to figure
out a way to not do that thing and figure out
another way to get to 72. And so, you know, it's...
different styles. I think that style also, as
I was talking about earlier, puts you in much
more of a position to overplay your hand. If
you are, I think that if you are the type to
run a caucus and to run a house where you can
kind of sort of see both sides, because you can
see both sides, you're less likely to be blindsided.
You're less likely to see like political blowback.
um because you can kind of see around the corner
if you ain't looking around the corner because
you like i don't care what's around the corner
that's that's how you end up in you know situations
where you you know where frankly democrats do
better in 2026 than people give them credit for
right running around saying i'm in charge and
just changing as much as you can there's definitely
going to be some blowback if you're not paying
attention to your lefts and rights yeah because
the part because the fact of the matter is I
say this as somebody who knows exactly what type
of deep values I have. The mark of political
wisdom. This goes for our side, too. In fact,
I think it goes to our side more so. The mark
of political wisdom is this statement. I believe
X, but I know a lot of people might disagree.
That is the mark of political wisdom. The reason
that we are in the state that we are in right
now nationally is because we have a lot of people
in the White House who believe that the wild
things they believe are reality and that people
agree with them. That is why we are in the state
we're in. And the reason why North Carolina is
actually in a pretty good position is because
we kind of had to buy. by will of the voters,
frankly, we've had to have situations where,
you know, the Republicans in the legislature
wanted to do something, but they had to get past
Governor Cooper's veto and they couldn't do it.
Well, too bad, right? That has kind of kept our
state from veering too far to one side because...
You can't. But right now we have people in the
White House who could just do wild stuff, like
irresponsible stuff, stuff that we shouldn't
be scared to call out as wild and irresponsible
and like nobody has any business doing it. We
should be willing to say that. But they can do
that because they surround themselves with people
who not only don't look around the corner, they
say there is no corner. All right. They say the
corner doesn't exist. They say the corner is
a deep state conspiracy. That's how you get into
trouble. That's how you have a president who
literally his first term had more Americans thinking
he was strong on the economy. And literally in
the first hundred days, he's already he already
has a higher disapproval rating on the economy
than approval. Didn't happen. for a lot of his
first four years. Say what you want to say about
Donald Trump, but voters thought he was good
on the economy because he's a businessman. You
know, he does deals. They don't think that now
because he made a big, huge mistake on this whole
terror stuff, which we should call him out on.
And then double down. That's a prime example.
And then double down. And then triple down. And
then pretended like everybody else is crazy because
they don't see what we've known. for literally
a hundred years if you try and slap big tariffs
on stuff all you're doing is multiplying the
price of stuff which ain't good for the economy
also let's talk about what happens when it comes
to these tariffs i know you're asking about the
legislature but i want to make sure we have we
we know how to talk about these kind of things
on the democratic side yeah yeah all right so
your goal with tariffs i want to make things
more expensive because then people will take
their factories from overseas they'll bring them
back here they'll build factories here right
they'll build their stuff here all right where
are you going to get the stuff to build those
factories exactly i i think i actually We talked
about this. Yeah, no, I think I actually mentioned
that a couple episodes ago. I was, you know,
if the whole point of the tariffs is to increase
domestic manufacturing and production and whatnot,
you still got to get the stuff from somewhere.
So if you got, if the whole idea is like an auto
plant in Detroit up and running again, that's
going to take steel, it's going to take aluminum,
goods, all this stuff. Now, CJ, I have a proposal
for you. And Chaz, you can jump on this too.
think it's going to be great um it's going to
be a huge leap uh we're going to go forward with
it we're going to have people make steel in their
backyard millions of citizens making steel in
their backyard it'll be a great leap forward
it's going to work so well for everybody we're
doing like victory gardens but for like you know
good like metal and whatnot yeah no i'm pretty
sure that's just the entire show forged in fire
like i watched that whole thing i like it um
yeah no it's we we did talk about this because
it was something that when when it was first
happening, it kind of struck us as like, okay,
but the logic isn't even sound. And I think Americans,
even if you don't really understand tariffs,
even if you don't really understand the economy
as broad as a subject as it is, that's fine if
you don't, but like, don't believe this guy who's
telling you that tariffs are just going to make
us richer somehow. It's just going to work, right?
I mean, it'll make him richer. It'll make corporations
richer. And on the back end. the matter is a
lot of times it might actually hurt uh corporations
too because there's but so here's here's the
thing that here's the thing that we have to make
sure that we're doing sometimes right um as you
say when i was growing up don't use a ten dollar
word when a two dollar word will do right all
the tariffs are is somebody basically saying
i'm gonna make whatever you bring in cost a lot
more because i'm gonna slap more taxes on it
and when you do what they did which is where
you slapped a bunch of taxes on stuff fast what
you're doing is basically saying to people um
all the stuff you're gonna get is gonna be more
expensive and if you're a trucker it's gonna
hit distribution so if you work in a warehouse
guess what people ain't gonna be buying as much
stuff if if now what they're buying costs twice
as much you don't have to be you know phd nobel
prize winning economist to know that if you double
the price of a refrigerator people gonna buy
less refrigerate right right and if people are
buying less refrigerators they're gonna need
less truck drivers to drive them around and they're
gonna need and there's gonna be a lot more empty
warehouses right um and people talk about oh
well like we were talking about before over a
few years they'll move everything over um you
know in the words of warren buffett who is a
no who apparently is a communist that some of
these people uh he's like not warren buffett
said he's a class trainer yeah exactly the warren
buffett said um the market can stay irrational
longer than you can it can stay solvent in other
words um the market can do crazy stuff and bankrupt
your tail before it finally like oh we need to
fix things like so you need to you need to understand
if you are a like a person who considers themselves
working class you are going to get hit hardest
by terrorists i don't care who you are you are
going to get hit hardest by terrorists because
if your car breaks down you can't go to your
mechanic and say uh i know my part is going to
cost twice as much now and you have to get it
from somewhere but can i give you the old price
they're gonna say no Unless they're doing you
a small, unless like, you know, if you're doing
your cousin or something, maybe they can do it.
They cut you a brand, but they can't do that
with everybody or they're going to be the ones
that are going to go bankrupt. So we got to,
we got to start calling this stuff out. Like
some of this stuff, I think we're, and this,
this drove me crazy when we first started talking
about tariffs, people were so scared to say,
yo, this is a bad idea because they were like,
well, you know, people, we need to understand
where he's coming from. No, we don't because
this is not the way to bring jobs back to the
United States. You bring jobs back to the United
States by making more of them in things that
we do better, right? If a country wants to send
us olives and we want to send them fighter jets,
that's a good trade, right? Like if that means
we're going to make more, if we're going to make
more like technology and they're going to send
us the parts, but we get the benefit of the tech,
of the entire technology, that's a good trade.
We have to be willing to call these things like
we see it. But sometimes we are so scared that
somebody is going to say that we're out of touch
somehow that we don't just call it, call it like
it is like, this is bad stuff. Agreed. And so,
you know, when it comes to like calling, not
just this whole tariff stuff out, but just kind
of. let's say, the awful Republican policies
and going back a few minutes, calling out the
kind of, I guess, extremism or, you know, the
true believer aspect of people like Destin Hull
and people in the NC General Assembly Republican
Party. Like, how do you see or what do you think
the Democratic Party needs to do on messaging?
How do you think the best way to go about this
would be? Yeah, sorry about that. But I think
that we've got to make sure people understand
that what happens in Raleigh affects them a lot
more than what happens in Washington. And we
also have to be willing to tell people in simple
terms, not in super complex, you know, super
academic. terms, what's happening in Raleigh,
right? We sometimes get in our own way because
we don't know who our audience is. And no disrespect,
but I appreciate everyone that donates to campaigns.
It's important that we have people who donate
to campaigns, but sometimes our audience is not
donors. Sometimes our audience is people who
are just living their lives. They don't pay attention
to politics all the time. They don't watch MSNBC
every night. They are people who are just living
their lives and they might not even know what's
going on. So we have to make sure that we are
speaking to people, not that we're dumbing things
down for people. That's not that we're condescending
to people, but that we're telling people in a
way that they can understand why this stuff matters.
I think sometimes we have gotten so like, it's
almost like we have, we sometimes develop our
own language on our side, right? Where we say
things and they are certain. ways that certain
things have to be said and that's it's totally
fine to know that but if you're knocking on somebody's
door and they're like why should i care what's
going on in raleigh and you say well do you care
that they might be throwing out your ballot do
you care they're throwing out ballots for literally
you know literally for people who are in the
military right now that's what they're trying
to do because they want to win like that's the
kind of thing like we need to say it like that
we don't need to say you know i'll give you another
example It's a national example, but I think
it's important. We have people who are saying
things like the rendition of a person who was
legally in the United States is highly concerning
to me because it violates our fundamental principles
of due process. OK, cool. Well, I'm a lawyer.
I understand exactly what you said. And I agree.
But if I'm talking to my grandma. I'm not going
to talk to her about that because she may not
understand that. And she's a reliable Democratic
voter, both in every primary and general. She
doesn't know what I just said. There is definitely
a median voter out there that would just go,
huh? Right. If you say, if you say personally,
if you say to somebody, you say, look, personally,
I think that before you get kicked out the country,
you should be able to say in front of a judge,
here's why I shouldn't be kicked out of the country.
And if the judge says you should stay, they shouldn't
say, well, we're kicking you out anyway. Like
that's how you convey the issue of the problem
with due process and rendition, right? People
don't know what those words mean. And people
say things like, oh, well, you think voters are
dumb. No, I think voters don't pay as much attention
to this. They don't live this. This is not their
thing. And so you want to be able to convey complex
issues to people in a way they can get it. Because
if you say to somebody, do you think you should
be able to be kicked out of the country? And
if a judge says, no, Ashley should stay, the
government should be able to say, no, Ashley,
we're going to kick you out anyway. Yeah. Everybody
gets that. Bring it back to big government. Yeah.
That's crazy. Like people, like people who are
literally like, you know, I don't, I, you know,
I just don't want there to be death panels. The
same people are now like, yeah, cool. Like kick
them out because we're talking about due process
instead of talking about kicking people out of
the country without having their day in court.
That's an E that is a much easier way to say
the same. thing you know it's so it drives that's
the kind of messaging stuff that i think we where
we where we defeat ourselves frankly so i think
that's yeah sorry cj so no you're good uh so
let me kind of let me ask you this so you know
i i completely agree with what you said i think
we've kind of said something along the lines
on here before or at least you're gonna have
talked about before yeah yeah we i called it
um meeting people where they're at both mentally
and geographically yeah but so that is once you
kind of get their attention right so i think
one of the biggest problems we have is just starting
that conversation to begin with most people they're
busy with their day -to -day lives they yeah
yeah if they are paying attention anything on
the news anything political it is basically solely
you know, on the federal level. I mean, I'm,
I personally have an example of this. I mean,
I did not pay attention to state level politics
until I was in college and was forced to take
a North Carolina politics class. Yeah. Right.
Like I, you know, it wasn't, you know, quote,
sexy, so to say, it wasn't interesting. And so
like, you know, now i was a political science
major right so yeah i was yeah so like how do
you think we get that initial that start uh going
yeah because we can have those conversations
but we have to instigate them somehow yeah So
I think that it's all about, to your point, it's
all about the approach. If you say to somebody,
let's have a conversation about politics right
now, their eyes are going to glaze over. But
these same people, I guarantee you have an opinion.
All right. I guarantee it. One of the things
we have to do, number one, is we got to start
knocking on doors that are not just. people who
already agree with us all right um because if
you knock on some doors of some people that are
kind of in the middle you're going to have some
you're going to have some conversations that
you might not have with people who already agree
with you um so part of it is literally having
fewer so we have a lot of events where we say
come to me and talk to me and those are important
i'm not saying that they're not um but i think
if you're gonna if you're in the state legislature
if you're gonna have two hours of like office
hours in your district you also probably need
to have two hours where you go knock on doors
all right because if 20 people come if 20 people
come to your office hours in two hours that's
that's a good number but if you knock on doors
in a pretty pretty like a lot of people in a
neighborhood you'll probably be able to knock
on about 45 ish 50 doors in that same uh hour
and probably talked to 14 people so literally
you're probably if you did three hours you're
talking to 21 people most likely 20 you know
18 21 people so you're literally if you spend
for the two hours that you spent with office
hours of people coming to you if you had 20 people
show that's pretty good showing if you spent
three hours knocking on doors you probably talked
to the same number of people and you probably
would get a perspective That you would probably
not get from people who are taking the initiative
to go and talk to you. And I'm not saying do
one rather than the other. I'm saying do both,
right? Sure. Make time for both. So, yeah. That's
what I like to call campaign math. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Now, before we go, I have a couple more
questions for you. One is anything on the horizon
for Chaz Beasley in terms of running for something?
maybe throwing your hat in the ring again at
some point yeah so um i've been getting i've
gotten this question a few times oh i'm sure
you have um i am not the type of person who needs
to be in somebody's political office in order
to do the work or to be in somebody's political
office because i feel like like part of my identity
is missing because i'm not in somebody's office
like i'm not that person um no opportunities
have presented themselves um that makes me want
to just jump right in i love the work that i'm
doing um i love you know being at home with my
my wife and my baby every night um i really love
the life that i'm living right now um i just
am not one of these people just needs to be in
office to be somebody like that's just not me
um but opportunity presents itself you know We'll
see. But right now, no, I'm not running for anything.
I'm not looking at anything. I'm not angling
for anything. I just think the work is important
enough that, yo, you got to do the work regardless
of whether or not you're at the front of the
line or the back. And I think we got, I think
there are definitely some people who take a different
approach. I think there's some people that are
like, yo, if I'm not in somebody's political
office, like who am I? That ain't me though.
I'm not that guy. That's a very, no, I think
it's a healthy reluctance, a very wholesome response,
honestly. Yeah, I appreciate that. Yeah, final
question that we ask pretty much all of our guests.
What is your go -to cookout menu order? Oh, okay.
So two hot dogs, chili and mustard on both, chicken
nuggets with extra protein, which is what I like
to tell myself, complete. Complete lie. Doing
so. Fries, Cajun seasoning, and huge tea. Sweet
tea. That's definitely my trade. I will say that
if I'm really, like, not trying to be productive
at all, I might switch out the huge tea for,
like, a shake or a Cheer One float. But if I
do that, I know I'm done for the day. I am not
getting anything done. So was that a Republican
strategy was to bring Chaz Beasley, Representative
Chaz Beasley, a Coke float, a Pepsi or a Cheerwine
float? He'll be out for the rest of the day.
Exactly, exactly. It's like Samson cutting his
hair. That's definitely my kryptonite is the
Cheerwine float. No, I know. I know myself well
enough at this stage in my life. You've got,
you gotta, you gotta, you gotta bounce it out
a little bit when it comes to the, to the shakes
that cook out. Cause those things are huge. And
you could definitely finish them. I, I, I think
what I love is like, you know, we've had some
people like they've had to think about it for
like half a second or so. Yeah. You had your
answer ready to go. Like, I love that. Is that
a good thing though? No, you can tell you've
had to like, cause man, those, those cook out.
those cookout people are they are fast they're
like what do you want so like you definitely
had to order this a few times oh yeah oh yeah
no I think I have it I have it memorized and
I'm gonna if my I think my wife will probably
listen to this podcast so just tell me what minute
that question comes up and I'll turn it off because
she's I'm like oh that's it no bunch of housekeeping
stuff at the end because I'm telling you she
she has done she has done uh god's work when
it comes to getting me getting my diet right
because oh man that legislative diet boy it'll
get you so i've come a long way Well, Chaz, I
tell you what, as a favor to you, I will upload
two versions of this one with the cookout order
cut out. But I'm going to leave the Yale part
in. So that's the trade off. OK, buddy. Chaz
Beasley, the Honorable Chaz Beasley. It has been
a pleasure to talk to you today. Do you have
any anything you want to plug or any cause that
you want to tell people about before we go? Yeah,
yeah. No, definitely want to tell you guys appreciate
the fact that y 'all are doing this. I would
definitely put in a plug to all my fellow legislators
come on this podcast. I don't want to be the
only one. I want to be the first, but not the
last. And also, you know, just remember the people
out in Western North Carolina. My grandmother
was one of those people who was out there. When
Helene hit, don't forget about those people.
They still need us. So keep them top of mind.
Especially when you start getting those tax refund
checks and you're looking for a charitable cause,
send a little bit out to the 828. Love it. Well,
Chaz, again, thank you so much. Thanks, y 'all.
All right. Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation.
And we were really lucky to get Chaz on the podcast.
I thought it was a really good conversation.
Oh, no, it was fantastic. I mean, he had a lot
of great things to say. And I'm glad we had him
on there. It made me feel good that some of his
concerns and his views were similar and the same
thing as ones we've had ourselves on here in
previous episodes. So that's nice. It was a good
idea to send him that script beforehand. I think,
you know, I definitely praise you. for that good
thinking on your part thank you yeah i um the
contract i had to write up was a little was a
little tricky but you know he signed in blood
and whatnot so we're good Well, for any Republicans
listening, I swear to God, this is not real.
We are not the deep state. Don't worry. That's
exactly what the deep state would say. And, you
know, like when we talk about just politics in
general, you always got to think like somebody,
somebody at some point is going to dig back through
these and try to find something, anything. And
to you, intern or page or legislative aid that
is listening to this. Are you doing okay? The
year's 2032. Republicans are not doing so well
right now. Or maybe they're doing great, but
they're also still crazy. Are you okay? I hope
your mental health is, you know, doing... well
and i hope you are uh you know skimming a little
bit off the top uh from from your uh republican
counterparts you know you know get that bag while
you can um you don't have to report us it's okay
just tell them you found nothing all right i
think that covered our bases yeah i think that
covered our bases i think we're good now so now
we can get to the uh the bullshit of the week
unfortunately yeah so this is the nature of uh
recording a a topical podcast cj This is the
line that we've chosen for ourselves. Things
change within hours of hitting that record and
submit button. Yep. So last week we were talking
about the whole paragraph by Republicans to give
Dave Bulyak the... north carolina state auditor
the power to oversee the state board of elections
we were talking last week about how the court
of appeals had to stop that in its tracks right
uh today it's currently as we are recording this
may 1st and abc11 .com You can see the headline,
NC Auditor Names Elections Board Members After
Judges Let Law Stand During Appeals. So, as we
kind of mentioned last episode, this got sent
to the appeals court. And, yeah. They said, you
know, you can go through with this power grab
and, you know, completely destroy years of, you
know, settled law and precedents and all that
stuff. Logic, yeah. Really just kind of taking
North Carolina back a few more steps. Yeah, because
when I think elections and when I think, you
know, keeping them in the hands of people who
are allied to... the small D democratic values
that we hold dear in this country. The first
guy that I think of to manage them is the money
guy in the council of state is, is the state
auditor. Definitely think about the guy who,
as we said in the last episode, only switched
parties recently and said, he's only in this
for Donald Trump. Definitely trust him with,
you know, as you put it, the small D democratic
values. Yeah. Very trustworthy guy. Not at all
going to fuck everything up. No, no, definitely
not a partisan hack. Um, and I mean, And obviously
they had appointments ready to go as soon as
this dropped. And this is something that I think,
just as a quick aside, that if Democratic politicians,
if you are not already doing this, where regardless
of how things go, that you don't have a slate
ready to go, the moment anything happens, learn
from what Republicans are doing right now. Learn
from what North Carolina Republicans are doing
and learn from what national Republicans are
doing. Because the moment they get any kind of
favorable ruling, They just go ahead and do it.
They don't wait. Oh, we got to wait and make
sure it's legal. It's like, it's literally that
moment. And this is very topical because, well,
not super topical, but this is very topical in
a way because it is about to be May the 4th and
the Revenge of the Sith has been re -released
to theaters, which is amazing. I am going to
try to see it. I don't know if I'll be able to,
but it's that moment in the first episode when
he says, but my Lord, is that legal? I will make
it legal. And I can't do Palpatine, so don't
get me to try. All right. You pushed me to it.
I will make it legal. There. And so we have this
exact scenario right now is playing out where.
They made it legal to do what they're doing.
Doesn't even matter that a previous court said
that it's unconstitutional. It does not matter.
And like, granted, yes, that is how the court
system works. Not arguing that that's not how
it should work, right? How dare I question the
efficacy of our judicial system? I'm just saying,
it's a little bit bullshit. Oh, yeah. And, I
mean, I'm skimming through this article really
quick. I'm about to pull up the ruling. But last
I heard, they had not... announced who the uh
yeah they left the judges unnamed in the ruling
now we're looking at trying to submit some kind
of records request to figure out who the judges
are i completely understand that they are probably
doing this to make sure that they are not subject
to harassment that is not the goal for us it
is purely academic to figure out which of these
judges decided This was totally fine and decided,
you know what? I will make the decision, but
we're not going to tell people who we're not
going to reveal who made this decision, even
though we need to reiterate, too, that there
are 12 Republican judges on the Court of Appeals.
So odds are this unanimous court decision did
not include a Democrat. Now, I'm again on this
article. So this says, Francis DeLuca, who is
the former president of a conservative think
tank. If you are from Western North Carolina,
specifically from Woon, Watauga County, and the
Eggers name sounds familiar, that's because this
is the same family of Eggers that tried numerous
times to get on -campus voting taken away from
Appalachian State University. I personally, as
an App alum, have a particular dislike for all
things for Eggers and company. I think that's
a completely reasonable way to feel. um i should
also say during that time when i was an app like
we sued and won many lawsuits because the courts
were like yeah no some of these things are absolutely
insane they're overreaching they are an affront
to small d democratic values and i think i don't
know what i'll be honest i do not know the makeup
of the bills courts or anything like that at
that time this was like you know like 2016, 2019
-ish. I do not know the makeup of the appeals
court, but I think it says a lot that nowadays,
common sense legal victories aren't necessarily
common. I like to think that anyone who at least
has a respect for the rule of law and for constitutionality
and small d democracy, I like to think anyone
who has that respect can see what is going on
and see that this was a partisan power grab and
that it is a slap in the face to those values.
I like to think that anyway. Who knows? No, I
do too, but we do live in an age of hyper -partisanship.
Doing no small part to Trump, but also just the
fallout from the tea party movement that still
exists in ripples to this day we have partisan
judges that have seemingly made it their life's
mission to just be as conservative as possible
just like let's push the bounds of what conservatism
actually means within a legal framework and that
that is not to say that what they're doing is
strictly illegal it's in our opinion unethical
but again they're working within a legal framework
and like not to bring it back to fascism uh not
saying this is fascism it is adjacent to it in
a way but like this is this is how tyranny becomes
itself it's how it manifests you have one party
one group of people and And it's not even like
it's a whole party. It's not like all Republicans
got together and made this decision. This was
the NCGOP. This was... republican insiders this
is businessmen and lawmakers and people within
the legal system that are making these decisions
and making these plans and then when it comes
time right these loyalists these people that
have been in the party structure or they know
somebody who knows somebody or they've been an
old family friend for three generations that
now when they have the chance bing bang boom
You all get nice, cushy, little spoiled system
jobs. You're now on the Board of Elections. You're
now on the Board of Education. We're going to
appoint you to these positions. And also keep
this in mind. The governor has a lot of authority
on who he gets to appoint to certain positions.
We're not just talking about Board of Elections
now. For instance, the DA in my county recently
announced that she's going to resign. Now, initially
I thought, okay, does this mean that there's
going to be a special election? No. This means...
that the governor gets to appoint who the next
da is going to be in that district can you guess
where their sites might be set on next if they're
not already going to try and do that with another
bill let me guess um you get rid of you get rid
of the local level da's and the local level judicial
uh system you're you're in trouble if you take
away the power of the governor who was duly elected
to do the job that he was going to run on doing
and you take that that power of appointment away
from the governor and give it to the state auditor
who has like 200 followers on tiktok or not tiktok
who has like 200 followers on twitter not that
that means anything but like nobody knows who
this fucking guy is i think that that's what
i'm getting at it's not about the followers it's
that nobody knows who he is except for the people
who follow politics does that not you know does
that not alarm you at all oh yeah no it's very
alarming but i will say that you specifically
but you listener yell through your screen and
let me know that this alarms you um next week
you're going to be out on the street just walking
and someone will like run up to you and be like
this alarms me but no so no it no it is very
alarming though And it's one thing that I don't
think people are talking about a lot yet, because
this story is just like really groundbreaking.
Yeah, this was late last night that this was
decided. And then early this morning, he was
appointing people already. Like this could also
have some effect on the whole Jefferson Griffin,
Ellison Riggs thing. Potentially. And that's
not just me saying that. Like, that's Stein saying
that. Yeah. Saying that he feared that appointment
changes would mean Republicans could succeed
in helping Griffin win the seat. Yeah. Right?
And, like, earlier today, on my lunch break,
I decided to walk over to the North Carolina
Science Museum. You know? Because if y 'all have
never been, it's here in Raleigh. It's a really
cool place. It's really neat. Yeah. And one thing
I love, there's just something about it. I cannot
place what it is. Whenever I walk in there, I'm
just, like, really happy. Maybe it's just because
I'm a nerd. earth i don't know but yes you know
they talk about you know just all the natural
resources and the various types of environments
and climates and whatnot that we have in this
state and it makes me think about you know the
state as a whole what it means what it stands
for and you know i'm thinking about just all
the various things and then you know it's a little
happy place and then all of a sudden out of nowhere
i'm just like fucking republicans are kind of
messing it all up No, like, I'm just like, you
know, this is a state. love for its natural beauty,
its resources, for the people here, right? Whether
or not I agree with them or not, whether or not
we're politics -aligned or not, but they are
not being represented like they should be. They
are not having their rights maintained and protected
and expanded like they should be. Every generation
of lawmaker is a custodian and a guardian of
the democracy and the people who elected them
there. positions yeah and who we have now at
least on the republican side are failing in their
mission dramatically it's not because they are
in net or they just don't have the ability or
know how it's because they don't want to right
because they do not care about what they have
been you know what duty has been bestowed upon
them and if they only care yes and if i may add
to it a little bit they don't even feel as though
they have the obligation to you know what i you
know what i'm saying yeah Like, you're saying
they don't want to. I'm saying, yes, and they
don't feel they have the obligation to. That's
true. Like, no, I don't need to meet with constituents.
No, I don't need to actually adhere to what the
majority of the population in the state wants.
Because, like, why would I need to meet with
the constituents? Why would I need to adhere
to, you know, or, again, small d democratic values
whenever the party that I'm a part of, the part
of the Republican Party. has drawn the maps and
have gerrymandered the state all to hell. I never
had to worry about losing power as long as my
party is in control, so why should I give a shit
about what my constituents have to say? Why should
I meet with them? Right. And it's a tenuous situation,
because, kind of like what Chaz was saying earlier,
it's not as if they're never going to get to...
a point where it's so overwhelmingly Republican
or conservative in this state that Democrats
just have absolutely no power. No matter how
badly you cut up the maps, you're not going to
make us Oklahoma. Like, that's just not going
to happen because there are far too many people
in this state. There are too many big cities.
There's too much diversity. And I'm not saying
that those are the hallmarks of Democrats, but
they certainly seem to be what we flock to, right?
They certainly seem to be what liberals... and
leftists and people who have more democratic,
more liberal values, that tends to be where we
are. And when you have a population that is screaming
for help, both with housing, the costs of goods
and services going way beyond what we're able
to actually pay for, the wages stagnating, the
excruciatingly low teacher pay, the inability
for us to get good health care in... a place
that is known for having the research, the medical
research triangle in its state. There's so many
things in this state that like you're saying.
It is a beautiful place. There's a reason that
I want to be here. But there's also a reason
that we have so much work to do to fix it. Because
this should be a place that people want to come
to. And right now, there's not a whole lot of
reason to because of the way that we are being
treated by our governing body. And I say we,
I mean we, as in everybody. Republicans in Western
North Carolina, this is not good for you. Conservative...
unaffiliated it's in eastern north carolina this
is not good for you this will not work out well
because the only ones that they are doing the
only people that they are doing this for is themselves
is the party the the ncgop that is all they care
about and and and their majority slipped atlas
shrugged this last cycle to bring it back around
to like libertarianism right to to stalwart uh
conservatism to to uh to aesthetic libertarianism,
right? Anytime I hear Atlas Shrugged or I hear
Ayn Rand or anything like that, just those words,
I freeze and mentally prepare myself to hear
the most inane, absurd bullshit ever. And I look
for ways to escape whatever room I'm in, even
if it's just through a window on the 30th floor.
I just, I love the... I love the idiom, I guess,
of Atlas Shrugged. Because that, I think, is
apt in this scenario. That for a few years we've
seen this Republican supermajority and the power
that they've been able to wield. The things that
they've been able to do. It seems imposing. And
almost unbeatable in certain instances, right?
Well, we'll never win that seat. Oh, we'll never
be able to overcome that vote majority, right?
Like we say a lot, politics is fluid, nothing's
set in stone. Like Chaz said earlier, we go through
many different waves. Where you think that for
one moment, oh man, they've just got this shit
on lock. And then two years later, everything
flips on its head for one reason or another.
Am I saying that's going to happen here? No,
it probably won't. But again, that two seat loss
in 2024, that's not nothing. And it's, again,
Atlas shrugged. He lost the step. And to push
the analogy even further, there's a reason that
we remember the gods of Olympus and not the Titans.
And with that... To end it on talks of deities,
which we will not get into on this show, I promise
you. I'm not going to go on TikTok and start
debating atheists and agnostics and Christians.
You don't want to talk to Ken Ham? I really don't.
I think I'm good, honestly. We thank you so much
for listening. I hope you enjoyed our conversation
with the Honorable Chaz Beasley. And I hope you'll
stick around for more interviews that I am sure
that we are going to be conducting in the next
few weeks. We've got one lined up that we are
very, very excited about. And you should be too.
We can't announce who it is right this second.
But if you follow us on our Blue Sky and Twitter
and all those places, and if you check us out
on Substack, we will be able to give you updates
about it. We may also post it on our Patreon
early if you would like to go there and support
the channel. That would be amazing of you, dear
listener. CJ, you got anything else to say to
the people listening right now? Just one thing
really quick. So, you know, last week's episode
was episode number 10, and Adrian and I were
talking earlier, and we were like, 10 felt pretty
good, not going to lie. It has definitely been
a learning process for us so far. I just want
to say to those who were there from the beginning,
thank you. But for those who have kept on listening,
we really do appreciate it. We know that the
podcast is starting to grow and whatnot. And
we are both excited. At least I'm assuming Adrian
is. We are both excited. But thank you for tuning
in. Yeah, thank you. And we hope you tune in
next time. Follow us on TikTok. Follow us on
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next time on The Left of Old North. Bye -bye.