Hey there and welcome back to Left of Old North.
This is episode number seven. I am your host
CJ Robinson. And I'm your host Adrian. And today
we've got kind of an interesting little episode.
First off we're going to start with our initial
reactions from outside the State Executive Committee
meeting for the North Carolina Democratic Party
from this past weekend. And then we got a interview
with Megan Wagner, who is the man, or was, I
should say, the manager for Dante Pittman, whose
victory broke the Republican supermajority in
the North Carolina General Assembly. So that's
going to be a lot of fun. We kind of get into
what that experience was like, what it's like
managing in an SEC race. That is State Executive
Committee, not Southeastern Conference for y
'all. And yeah without further ado let's get
into our initial thoughts after our Adventures
into the land of bureaucracy all right roll the
clip all right, so we Yeah, you're right. It's
a little echoey right there. Yeah, that's how
my mom broke her ankle CJ almost busted his ass
sliding on some ice out here in Wilson, North
Carolina So yeah, what are your initial impressions?
I mean, let's wait. Let's okay real quick. So
we ended on time Yeah, which is a fucking miracle
It's it's not the most common We got through
the entire agenda too. Yeah, which was impressive
Even though I feel like they did have to kind
of rush some people through the microphone to
get that done a couple times. I think there was
just a general reaction of like, okay, let's
get through this damn thing. Yeah. And I think
what it is is, you know, a lot of people, they
are sacrificing their week or part of their weekend.
They are sacrificing their time and they are
here to take care of business. So, yeah. Although
I would definitely argue that there are many
times where somebody gets up to speak. and like
has a problem with something, but if they read
any part of the plan of organization or the bylaws
or anything like that, they would see that all
of this stuff is part of the process and they
should have been prepared to come here and argue
all this stuff. There's definitely some homework
that should be done before all this starts. Yeah,
you can't show up to these and then be like,
well, you know. I don't agree with this thing
or this little thing and then expect everybody
to be on your side with that. Especially when
it means going through some things like line
by line. Because people famously love getting
down to the nitty gritty when there's 600 people
present. And you know, a whole day's worth of
work ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about the
the big thing though, but Why everyone really
kind of came out here for the main event? So
say and you know, that is the chair elections
and vice chair elections the leadership elections
for the state party Yeah, so that included I
mean really the only actual elections that really
took place was the chair the vice chair Secretary
secretary and that's it really so essentially
the second and third vice chair. There were no
challengers announced in advance or from the
floor. And so we were able to, what is it, vote
by acclamation? Yeah, vote by acclamation. Yeah,
to retain Dr. Kimberly Hardy and Elijah King
as second and third vice chair, respectively.
And then for first vice chair, Build up to it.
Yeah, that works there was Jonah Garson who is
the incumbent and then we he had challenges from
Jason Butler and Aaron Johnson. Yeah, and It
was I would say pretty decidedly in Or went into
Jonah. Yeah, he had I think 299 votes, there
were 600, or it was like 452 votes cast, almost
500, something like that. And they needed 250
votes to win, and he got way beyond that. But
it wasn't a bad showing for Aaron. No, it wasn't.
I think he got like 180 -something, 190 -something
votes. That sounds about right. And there was
a bit of salaciousness, I think, maybe we can
probably talk about. Yeah, now that it's kind
of all over there was definitely attempt to try
and slander First vice chair Jonah Garson prior
to this vote taking place and let me just say
from a personal perspective so as we're talking
about in the pod before AJ and I have both been
campaign managers. We were both campaign managers
this past cycle Can I say personally, Jonah helped
out a lot on the campaigns I was managing. He
showed up, he helped knock doors, came to fundraisers,
et cetera, et cetera. He showed up for... He
showed up for... In case y 'all haven't figured
this out, we were actually recording outside.
Sally B Howard school or at this took place.
Yeah, literally moments after we walked out the
door. Yes, we were sweating profusely Push hot
in there pushing old women out of the way. Well,
maybe you know I'm trying to get implemented
that now. So anyway, that's what I was saying
Jonah helped out a lot on the campaign I was
managing and I could not be more proud to have
cast my vote for him as an SEC member but There
are all these like Adrian said salacious, you
know attacks and baseless attacks on Jonah on
this character all this stuff is absolutely inexcusable
is immature and The way I look at it is If someone
has something to say about me or about someone
in the party in general If they have a problem
with the way, they're doing things then that
person needs to you know, actually go about this
appropriately or, you know, run for chair themselves.
Not hide behind an anonymous email, not leak
it to a reporter with a substack and whatnot.
Yeah, these were all rumors or previously alleged
things. I don't know how deep this goes exactly.
This is a lot of stuff that has been kind of...
enclosed circles. I won't go into detail just
so I don't, you know, reopen the wound. I'm sure
if you know somebody or if you dig hard enough
you can find it. But these kinds of rumors, I
mean, all they really serve to do is to try and
survive. Yeah, to push somebody out of a running
for something that like has no bearing on their
ability to do the job. I mean, in all honesty,
it's just bullshit. That's all it is. But Aaron
accepted his loss, I thought, really graciously.
Oh, yeah, incredibly graciously. And called for
everybody to, whoever was perpetuating these...
Attacks. ...verbal assault, or rather written
assaults, to knock it the fuck off. Yeah. In
not so many words. As they should. I mean...
Obviously, we don't know what the temperature
is gonna be two years from now, but You know,
hopefully this isn't We don't see a repeat of
this in two years. I don't think we will I mean
mate if if we It's all gonna depend on midterms.
Yeah, I agree like if if for some reason We can't
raise enough money or rather. Excuse me. I should
say For some reason, if we can't, if the Democratic
Party cannot raise enough money, if they lose
seats in droves, if they make promises and then
don't live up to them, these are the kinds of
things that get people overturned and ousted.
But in all honesty, just kind of based off what
we've seen so far over the past two years, And
what I've heard and what I know about the character
of these people in charge, I don't think that's
anything to worry about really. I don't think
so either, but that kind of brings us to our
big last race, which was for the chair position,
which is currently held by 27 year old Anderson
Breeze Clayton, who we have already, I mean,
we gave our support publicly. And she won in
a landslide. Yes. It was not close at all. Yeah,
so the results. Yeah, she won it very handedly.
She had 405 votes to 71 votes. So that is 83
.51 % to 14 .64%. Yeah. And this is another instance
where I... I will say that her opponent, this
is one of those instances where I will say that
her opponent, Marlando Pridgen, I think it was
just a few different things in his speech and
in the way he kind of professed his candidacy
online that I think really sort of hindered his
ability to gain a lot of votes. One of the things
being that like, focusing really hard on the
need for a systemic... Or, what did he call it,
a very systematic, oh, a strategic plan. A laid
out point by point strategic plan. And, you know,
on its face, that makes sense. Yeah, no it does.
But, and this is just my interpretation, this
is my opinion, but during his speech he said
that we need to be unpredictable. And that caught
me by surprise because I thought the whole selling
point was that we're going to be very strategic
and we're going to lay it all out there. I mean,
it's not exactly like, I hate to use them as
an example, but it's not exactly like Republicans
have not been by the book. They've had a literal
playbook for years now and they've pretty much
followed it to a T. And look what's happened.
They've done a great job. Yeah. Yeah. Great being
the operative word for themselves, yes. Great
as far as... They've been successful. They've
won. Yeah. There we go. Yeah, they have been
successful, and I think the problem is that you're
kind of mixing up this feeling, this need, to
be both strategic, but also unpredictable, and
using that as a selling point to say, what exactly?
Right. I think... That you need to have a strategic
plan? that it'll be vested in you just do whatever
I say, but let's Let's not be so predictable
that everybody knows what's going on at any point
in time, right? And I think that's one thing
that was that struck me about Pridgen's campaign
was He kept on saying, you know, you need a strategic
plan You need strategic plan and then kept on
accusing the party of not having a plan. We've
seen their plan we've seen it work out and on
or during an election where Democrats did really
poorly across the entire country. North Carolina
stood out as a little blue beacon of hope to
some extent. So we've seen their plan. We know
the current chair and the vice chairs and everyone
have a plan. But he, when asked about it online
and whatnot, did not. I specifically asked him
online in a little forum if he had a plan. you
know said that he would not talk about publicly
on you know that platform that we were on and
to come to an event that he was at which you
know honestly all transparency I did not go to
but still if you're if you're asking to have
someone vote for you if you're asking someone
to you know support you you need to tell them
your plan It's that simple. Yeah. Or at least
have a vision you can sell them on and not just,
you know, a tax on the chair and that's it. Right.
It does come to a point where you're kind of
like, okay, you say you have a plan. So what
is the plan? Well, I can't tell you my plan.
You got to hire me and then I'll tell you the
plan. It's literally that bit from the office.
We do have a need for a strategic plan. Yes.
Nobody's arguing that. But if your plan is just,
vest all control in me, I will make sure it gets
done. That's not a plan. That's just authoritarianism.
That's concepts of a plan. We've seen that happen
before. Just hire a billionaire, I guess, to
do it all for you and then you're good. Those
are our initial thoughts. I think it's... Very
interesting that everybody has a very wide array
of what they feel like are the main points that
we should be following going forward. The main
attack points. Yeah. Everybody has plenty of
ideas about that. They do. And I mean, they're
entitled. They're perfectly entitled to them.
They really are. Any good ones you've heard tonight?
I mean... That you're like, yeah, absolutely.
I mean... As far as plans go, I mean year -round
organizing I think still is something that the
party is pursuing and needs to continue to pursue
because I mean yes 2025 is like the year of municipal
elections and whatnot but there's still a lot
of work to be done. Yeah there is a tendency
to think that organizing just needs to be done
right up to the lead up to an election. Yeah
and that that's not the case the way I've always
personally looked at it. is a lot of campaigns
are kinda like little upstart businesses and
whatnot. They come into town, they set up shop,
they do all this stuff, and then, I said upstart,
it's startup businesses. But they come into town,
they set up, and then they do their job, they
leave, and that's it. They don't leave anything
behind. They don't leave any type of platform,
scaffolding, whatever you wanna call it, for
future campaigns, future businesses to build
off of. and so you have to just kind of start
over. But what I like about what the party is
doing and what they're investing in, what they
want to continue doing, is a year -round organizing.
That way there's not an opportunity for that
startup business to collapse. So say there's
a chance for us to continue building off of the
momentum we started back in November, really
all of 2024, and carry that through 2025, through
the municipals and all that stuff, and into 2026.
Absolutely. And then we can roll off the back
of that and go into 2028. And 2027, of course.
Every year is an election year, folks. But 2028
will be the next big presidential election year.
And that's where the lead up, that's where all
the planning really comes into play. It's February
2025 right now. Yeah, we get municipalities in
November, but you know what, we're also gonna,
we're already gonna start hearing about midterms
here in the next couple months, I'm sure. Absolutely.
People announcing, people trying to get stuff
ready to go, so we'll see. Yeah, campaigns for
all that are really gonna start ramping up in
June, because that's when, I believe that's when
people are able to file. I think so, that sounds
right. So when that comes around, you know, We're
going to be on the lookout for people that inspire
us or that are trying to run again. And maybe
previously it didn't work out. I've got a few
county commissioners that I'm keeping my eyes
on. I know I've got one, that's the one for State
House I would love to see run. Who previously
ran for State Senate. But we'll keep you all
focused and hopefully you keep tuned in. These
are our initial thoughts. Stay on the left of
old north folks. So those were our initial thoughts
and I mean, I don't know about you But I still
feel pretty much the same way that I did right
after that night. So yeah the same I mean we
were recording this on Tuesday night. So just
a few nights, right? Yeah, it's Tuesday Yeah,
it is Tuesday a few nights after the meeting
and yeah, I also feel pretty much the same I'm
excited to see where the party goes from here.
So, and you know, we were just talking a few
minutes ago about Jonah Garson's victory as a
first vice chair. And well, you know, we got
Megan Wagner's interview up next and she just
so happened to be his campaign manager for the
SEC vice chair. Yeah. So we're going to get to
hear a little bit from her about running campaigns,
about breaking the super majority, about how
we can reach young people in North Carolina both
just as Democrats but also to politically activate
them and to see how we can actually start winning
a little bit in the state instead of just trying
to stop the bleeding. Breaking the super majority
is no small feat and I think we really owe it
to her and also to Dante Pittman for having done
that. So we hope you'll stay and listen for this
interview with Megan Wagner. Thanks for staying
on the left a little north with us. Today we're
joined by someone who knows how to win elections
in North Carolina. Megan Wagner, a campaign manager
with a perfect 3 -0 record on her belt. She's
played a key role in electing progressive leaders
like Theodore Nollert to Chappahill Town Council,
Dante Pittman to the NC House and District 24,
and most recently helped secure Jonah Garson's
re -election as the North Carolina Democratic
Party's first vice chair. Megan has been in the
trenches of North Carolina politics for a time
shaping campaigns, building grassroots movements,
and proving that smart strategy and relentless
organizing can deliver real victories. So we're
excited to have her on to get her take on what
it takes to win this state, the challenges of
running progressive campaigns, and maybe give
us some pointers on how we can actually win elections
next time. Megan, thanks for having me. Thanks
for coming on. Absolutely. Thanks for having
me guys. Yeah. So a little bit of background
about the three of us. We all worked for the
North Carolina House Caucus, the Democratic House
Caucus, to try and get some House candidates
elected. And spoilers, only one of us succeeded.
Very competitive, so happy to be the one. And
I called you that night that we were sitting
there pressing F5 on our laptops until the keys
almost broke to congratulate you because Dante
Pittman, another fellow young Democrat, he's
27 now? 28. Not that I haven't memorized or anything
still. No, I'm sure you don't. Yeah, you probably
still have every part of that just seared into
your brain, right? You have no idea. Well, I
hope you can give us an idea. So I just want
to hear like your take on I mean, now that it's
been a few months and considering that we still
have some races actually going on. I mean, we've
talked about the Alice and Riggs race here a
few times on the podcast. And how does it feel
to be able to sit back and rest on your laurels
there for a little bit? Yeah, I mean, it's been
really good to just number one, rest after the
campaign and like take time to collect myself
and actually sit down and think about everything
that we did because I think especially with the
campaigns that we run, we don't have huge staffs.
You don't have a bunch of people helping us do
all the things. Like, there is not a single thing
that was not in my job description, not a single
task too small that we weren't doing. And so
there's not a lot of time to sit there as you're
going and think about something we did last week
or like a month ago or these really good things
that we're doing. It's just trying to survive
kind of to get to the end and do the job. And
now with what we're seeing with so much dangerous
stuff coming out of the Trump administration
and some of the bad ideas that Republicans already
have in the state legislature, just knowing that
we have kind of that one level of protection
there through Governor Stein having his veto
and knowing that I was able to play a big part
in that is really valuable. And it helps with
right now with the downtime that I have to know
that like that work was still important. And
also with just again, everything nationally knowing
that like, okay, there's still this bright spot.
that we can hold on to and trying not to despair
too much about the things that are out of our
control. Yeah, and like you didn't get to rest
on your laurels for too long because pretty much
immediately started working for Jonah. Jonah
Garson, again, NCDP's first vice chair, recently
reelected. Now, I have not seen what the inside
of a campaign like that looks like. Can you tell
us a little bit about that? Just a little peek
behind the curtain. Yeah, I would say that a
campaign like that, it's in a way similar to
a larger campaign, but also in a way very different.
These aren't voters that you've never met before.
They're not voters who have no idea what's going
on and you're trying to bring them to the table.
These are people who may know, they're members
of the state executive committee. They're very
involved. They sometimes know better than we
do what's going on. And so it's really just saying,
do they want Jonah to continue being one of their
leaders? What did they think about the past election
as people who were just as much, if not more
on the ground than we were? And so it was really
just one -on -one conversations with as many
people as we could have, making sure they were
getting outreach folks we couldn't reach by phone,
making sure they were getting mail or email just
to really reach out to folks, make sure that
they felt heard and supported by their party.
Was that was that Josie? No, that was my cat.
Josie should be asleep. Should be. Yeah, it was,
I gotta say, it was kind of interesting because,
you know, I guess in full disclosure, all three
of us were actually at the SEC meeting this past
weekend whenever Jonah got reelected. Megan,
of course, because, you know, manager. And I
was there because I'm an SEC member myself. And
Adrian, you were a proxy? Yeah, I was proxying
for somebody else that was functioning in a different
capacity for the Democratic Party. So they don't
feel like it's good to cross those beams, you
know, both being a voting member and also working.
Directly with the leadership there. So I can
understand that but yeah, we were all there in
different capacities It was pretty pretty interesting.
Yeah, and um, that was interesting just kind
of seeing how things Are wildly different but
also incredibly similar Going from, you know
a state house race to you know, just this group
of what do we have like 600 sec members or something
with them about 600. Yeah That voter universe
definitely shrinks a lot. So speaking of, did
you ever get into things like, you know, persuasion
universes or anything like that? I mean, you
already kind of talked about earlier, you know,
these aren't like complete strangers or anything
like that, but still there's relationships that
have to be built, maintained, that kind of thing.
Yeah, I wouldn't say we had specific persuasion
universes, but again, these are people that We've
been working alongside for the past 2 years.
We knew some of the folks that might need a little
massaging to possibly get them to a yes and want
to vote. Yes. And there's some folks, we know
they should be pretty solid. There's some folks,
we know they're probably going to vote against
us. And so we had a pretty good idea of where
some of those people stood and just really try
to again, be really open and have those conversations
about what they want to see from the party. Yeah,
and, you know, considering there were only like,
3 real races. It was decently close between Jonah
and his opponent. Well, the runner up opponent,
Aaron Johnson. I just want to know like, because
like, how did you feel right before the count
came up? And then they announced who had actually
won the vote. Yeah, I mean, we felt pretty good
going into it. We had our whip count, which we
anticipated to be about 53 % of the body. I think
the actual count was higher than that. Percentage
wise, because there was a smaller number of members
there, but we felt really confident going into
it because we had had a lot of those conversations.
We had done the work code everyone know these
are folks who are 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, and to just
kind of have an idea of where most people stood
going in. to it so we felt pretty good i was
of course nervous because you get the whole go
tv phase which is normally like a month of the
campaign in like four days um we felt pretty
good going into it and trusted the work that
we had done and clearly it paid off so Do you
think it was harder trying to interface with
people who were almost exclusively on zoom and
like trying to make sure that you had their votes?
I know that sounds like a weird question, but
like I feel like it could be easier to persuade
people in person, especially if it's kind of
last minute. Yeah, I will say most of the folks
that we had connected with them long before the
meeting. Um, the meeting was kind of just, it's
like, when people are walking into the voting
site, you still try to get them, like, when you're
poll grading kind of the same thing. We were
talking to everyone that was there in the building.
Um, but on zoom, we couldn't really be in that
space at the same time is pretty much impossible.
Um, but we had talked to everyone really ahead
of time to make sure we got that information.
So we weren't having to rely on trying to interface
at the zoom. Gotcha. See, did you have a question?
I'm sorry. I felt like I stepped on you there
for a sec. Oh, no, you're good. I had something,
but I completely lost it. So maybe we'll see.
Well, so moving a little bit beyond that scope.
Also recently were the DNC elections and we saw
some pretty big upsets and victories, one being
David Hogg becoming the vice chair, which I honestly
like full disclosure, I was for it. his election
as vice chair. I didn't think he was going to
get it. That seemed like pretty far fetched to
me, but it was interesting to see. But I don't
know how y 'all swung. I was a Ben Wickler guy.
And where did you fall on that spectrum there,
Megan? I have to say I was pretty ambivalent
towards the whole process. It was clear that
there was going to be new leadership coming in
and I think it was a good idea for there to be
some fresh faces. Ultimately, I ended up supporting
with Claire. I think I gave him like, 5 bucks
just to feel included in the electoral process.
And a lot of that was just because. Number 1,
I trusted the judgment of Anderson and some of
the other state party folks and also he helped
put together an event with N. C. D. P. I think
it was in July maybe. Between with stems and
and CDP and Dante was a panelist on there. And
so I had actually seen him a little bit on a
zoom before and knew a bit about who he was was
like. Folks who are also in swing states and
willing to kind of put the focus and share that.
With other candidates, I was like, that's an
impactful leadership styles. I like that. But
again, I really was pretty ambivalent towards
the whole thing. I think they were both be great
options and it seems like Ken is. doing a great
job. I like what we see with some of what Democrats
did today going out. So I think it's a good choice.
I think we're in a good spot. Sure. Do you think
that what we did today, email chains are effective?
Do you think that that is something... I mean,
we've all sent emails trying to get people to
be informed and also please donate money. So
if you are subscribed to any of those mailing
lists, you have been getting a lot of them, I'm
sure. Do you see anything... that they could
probably be doing like, we're all on the ground
here. I have my own thoughts. I'm sure CJ does
too. But again, we're talking to a winner here.
So do you see anything that you would personally
improve upon or that maybe it's going great and
you're like, no, keep doing what you're doing.
Yeah, I don't know if this is necessarily an
improvement, I would say, because I don't know
if they're already doing this. But I think sometimes
it's a great message showing what Dems did today.
But it depends on the messenger who's actually
getting them to folks. I guess the only time
people are hearing about this is from the DNC
sending it to them, especially with some of the
folks who are more skeptical or moderate, because
if so, they're not going to listen. But if we're
able to get those messages on what we did into
the local stakeholders that folks do trust, who
are the church leaders, who are the people in
barbershops and at schools that can share this
information and say, this is what's happening.
This is how This item bullet number three on
the list actually relates to you in your daily
life and just trying to make sure that that's
getting to the right messengers. It's a good
message, but again, it has to be the right people
sharing that message for folks to actually trust
it. I think that's very insightful. That's something
that Dems are struggling with right now is trying
to penetrate the social sphere the way that Republicans,
MAGA, people like Steve Bannon specifically have
been able to do. with unfortunately pretty lethal
effect so but but i want to um oh sorry go ahead
cj oh i was just i was just agreeing um yeah
no um jesus uh yeah so i i do very much agree
that the unique that the dims that is definitely
need to work on getting that message out and
i do like this all of what dims did today sort
of thing because i think one thing that you're
seeing a lot in both just you know your everyday
dems but also your activist dems and your donor
dems and whatnot are is this sense of you know
we need y 'all to take action we need y 'all
to step up and we need to see you actually doing
something i think there's this perception of
the dems just being completely spineless so to
say and you know we can either unable or unwilling
to fight back against, you know, the Trump administration
and, you know, Republicans in general. I mean,
it didn't really help a couple of weeks ago when
Hugh Jeffries was like, they had the House, they
had the Senate, they had the White House. Like,
where are we going to do? I'm like, dude, you've
had how many years of Republican obstructionism?
Take a, take a, you know, lesson from their book.
And so I think something like the whole what
Dems did the day thing is at least a good step,
not It's not going to solve all the problems,
but it's a good first step. Yeah. Uh, and to
that effect, like I, do you think, um, just,
I, I guess from a campaign manager perspective,
um, like we're, I think we can all speak from
that perspective, but like when it comes to,
um, hang on, let me gather my thought again.
Sorry. I'm going to have to edit out some arms
and stuff anyway. So, so sorry. So with that,
so knowing that this is kind of the game plan
that they're going forward with and hopefully
we'll see some effect with that. I could also
see that because of Trump's already sliding popularity,
both in polls and pretty obviously like online
and in town hall meetings. I don't know if you
guys have been seeing, I'm sure you have, but
just these town hall meetings, these these meetings
with representatives across the the states where
people are just absolutely livid with what they're
doing in Congress and just kind of letting the
Trump administration roll over everything with
what they want to do. And we haven't completely
abated that with, you know, the election of Dante
Pittman for one, which helped break the supermajority.
Thank you very, very much, Megan. But also, like,
where do we go from here, especially in this
state? because another poll that is very relevant
is that we were the lowest turnout in the age
ranges of 22 to 25, and that's abysmal. And we're
not quite that age, but we're in that age bracket.
Well, we're young -ish. Megan, you're still in
your 20s. It's fine. Not to call you old or anything,
but I am in the age bracket. So I'm one of them.
Oh, that's right. You're wait, you're 24, right?
23. 23. Oh my gosh. Well, congratulations to
you. And I'm just gonna go and you know, get
my grave and die. I'm gonna get my AARP card
and my senior discount and all that shit. Well,
so as a 23 year old, as somebody who does fit
that bracket. How do you feel that where can
we better reach that area of the age demographic?
Because it doesn't whatever is happening right
now does not seem to be working. Yeah. I wish
I had the answer to that, frankly, because if
I knew I would be doing it. But I feel like it
kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier
about like meeting the right messengers. I think
a lot of young people. So I was a sophomore in
high school. When trump was elected and we very
quickly kind of saw like this like backsliding
of political norms of what we expected from our
political system And like I was still able to
remember when things were ever so slightly normal
And not just completely corrupted and I think
there's a big generation of folks who they've
never seen a government that actually functioned
and worked for them or attempted to work for
them. And so there's a big mistrust just in general
that the system is even something that we should
look at electoral politics matter to a lot of
young people. It's more focused on issue based
advocacy or social movements, which I think is
still the great place for folks to put their
energy. But that does somehow need to compliment
what's going on. electorally. And I think just
getting back to who are the right messengers,
people don't trust us. They're like, there's
all these things happening. There's all this
inaction. Why aren't you doing anything? Why
didn't you codify Roe v. Wade? And people don't
necessarily understand. Why those things didn't
happen and it's there's just so much mistrust
and so it's getting the right messengers in there.
We've always talked about needing like the Joe
Rogan of the left. Someone that can really authentically
and get in there without it being necessarily
political. And I also again, I don't have all
the answers. I am very biased with the friends
that I have. We're all extremely informed and
very active. And I'm grateful for that. However,
it is really hard to pierce through that to get
to other young folks. I think just having the
right messengers, having the right message, putting
a little bit of hope in there. And I'm an extreme
cynic. I'm sure other people my generation are
just in the political system that we're in. There's
no right answer. But I think just trying to move
towards a little bit of trust building will go
a long way with people my age. I think that's
for somebody who says that they don't have all
the answers, but but no. Yeah, of course. And
like if I was if I was asking you for like a
one size fits all kind of thing, like clearly,
you know, we've said on this podcast multiple
times politics is fluid. It's it's you're never
going to be able to attack things the same way
twice. It might work twice, but that doesn't
mean you should do it that way. And with 18 to
25 year olds with 25 to 40 year olds, it's a
different beast every few election cycles. So
I think that you're right in that, like, absolutely,
there has to be a gear shift, like figure out,
okay, you don't know how to talk to these people,
figure out how to talk to them, because whatever
you're doing right now is not working. And the
messenger is important. Absolutely. Which is
why we were very disappointed when Alexandria
Ocasio -Cortez was kind of snubbed for her position
of the Oversight Committee. So what about that?
Oh, I was furious. I mean, yeah, Pelosi from
her hospital bed in, what, Germany, I think?
Pull on the strings. Let's take it away from
perhaps the most visible, most popular, really,
I'd argue, Democrat in Congress, just to install
was he like late 70s early 80s 74 74 year old
guy with literal throat cancer like you had the
opportunity to build a bridge and you just detonated
it I think especially because AOC I think Kerr
and Jeff Jackson are both like not I've never
heard anyone put the two of them together before,
but they're both really good at, like, communicating
with people outwardly and, like, directly. And
I think it's hard to replicate for politicians
if it's not authentic, but those are people who
can really connect with normal people. The number
of people that I've talked to and they're like,
oh yeah, Jeff Jackson. I like his videos. I'm
like, how do you know who he is? Like, you're
normal. You're not one of us on this Zoom right
now. Because he is the normal guy. Get that communication
out there and something I thought about was just
talking about with you talking about the age
range of 18 to 25 and how it changes so much.
I think it's also I saw a graphic recently about
how different the generation is for those of
us who kind of, I think it was like, started
college pre coven versus post coven. And those
of us who graduated high school pre and post
covid because we those have I graduated high
school the year before it started and so I kind
of got a little bit of a year of like normal
in the real world and a lot of people didn't
and it kind of changed who people see as like
the resistance. What's the alternative to this
thing? We don't like which is kind of being stuck
at home and it was a theory that the person who
made this graphic had that it caused that why
we're seeing some of the right word shift with
young folks. I have no idea if it's true, but.
I could gather that that would be a part of it.
Yeah, I would think that, I mean, I'm sure that
that is one of many facets of the redirect of
like, young people always tend to vote Democratic
or liberal or leftist. And it's like to a pretty
broad extent that is still true, but there was
enough of a shift that people are sweating, you
know? And the tickle ban, like I was personally
very distraught over it. for the, like, 12 hours
that I did not get to use TikTok. And when you're
between jobs, you spend a lot of time on TikTok.
But then when it comes back and there's the whole
very obvious propaganda thing on it, I'm like,
oh, maybe this is why they tried to ban it, saying,
like, thank you, President Trump. I'm like, shit.
That's going to work on people. They're not going
to see this is the very obvious propaganda play
that it is to help them politically. And so I
think there's a lot of work that needs to be
done whether or not it's doable by 2028. Who
knows? But again, it's just that trust. They
see, oh, there's this thing he did. That's good.
They don't trust us to do the same. Why didn't
we protect it? It's just all of those things
like that where the Republicans are able to get
the credit and just sideline them over it. I
think. I think especially congressional Dems
are really good at shooting themselves in the
foot in that respect because like the whole like
TikTok ban thing, it was originally an idea under
Trump during his first term. And then we managed
to take it and turn it into our own thing and
then catch all the shit for it and then hand
Republicans a victory. Like what kind of backward
ass shit is that? Like we snatched defeat from
the jaws of victory there. I mean, I saw Jeff
Jackson get more blame for it in his TikTok comments
than Republicans. If you would look for a while,
they're like, what app are you recording this
on, Jeff? That was the sentiment of people there.
They just don't get it. I wish that you could
have joined us for episode five. And yes, this
is a plug for you to go and listen to episode
five right now. It's all about the TikTok ban.
We recorded it when that happened, unfortunately
weren't able to release it until much later.
But you should go listen to that because we actually
go into a lot more depth about it. And echoing
some of the sentiments that Megan is also talking
about here just like, okay, yeah, Jeff Jackson
did vote for it. He's one guy. You know? he just
happens to have 2 million followers on TikTok.
Like, there's no correlation to any of this based
on just, oh, he has more power because he has
more followers. Like, sure, he has more reach,
but his vote counts just as much as the lone
congressman from Wyoming. So, but rolling off
of the back of that, we talk a lot about younger
folks, especially um, the need for younger folks
to get involved in politics, especially if there's
something that bothers them. And while we know
now that you are a successful political campaigner
and strategist, what was Megan doing when you
were 16 years old? Why, why did you like, how
did you go from there? High school kid that probably
didn't know too much about politics. Maybe you
did, but I know most don't. So I'm assuming to
now, like what? What got you into this and why
did you want to work as a campaign manager? Why
deal with all that stress? Like who hurt you?
What is wrong with you? No, I ask myself that
all the time. But so I I was 11 when Obama was
reelected. Not to make y 'all feel old again.
But like I wasn't really paying attention to
that presidential election. Again, I was in the
sixth grade. Um, but when 2016 happens, that
was the 1st election that I had actually followed
and I had paid attention to some of the people
who were running and watch the debates and I
watched the DNC convention and paid attention
and then Trump won and I was like, what? He's
insane. The things that he was saying, I was
like, I don't understand how people could vote
for him. Again, naive little 15 year old in 2016
and. I really wanted to get involved in politics
somehow, get involved. I thought I wanted to
be an attorney. If you can't tell, I love to
argue. And I was like, how do I get involved
in all of this? And then when the 2018 midterms
happened, I still didn't know how to get involved.
I was in a really red county. where I grew up.
There was not any, like, kind of youth organizing
for people who were not super Republican around.
But I followed that. And it's funny, I actually
had followed that at a works campaign when he
ran for Senate in 2018. And then I remember it
was spring in my senior year in high school,
he was running for president and he was going
to be on UNC's campus. for a rally and I tried
to go to the rally I couldn't get in because
I wasn't a student but I went to another one
he had in Greensboro that day. It was my first
time like ever meeting a political candidate
but I had remembered that UNC Young Dems had
hosted that same thing and so then when I got
to college I was like yeah I'll join why not
see if I like it. Within a month of being there
we were out canvassing in extremely rural Robeson
County where Dan McCready was running in the
redo election for the main congressional district,
which was redone due to GOP ballot fraud. We're
just out there having conversations with people.
And in hindsight, the three, the three girls
that I was with, and I probably should not have
gone down like a dirt road through a cornfield
to get to somebody's house at our first time
ever canvassing and then walked into this person's
house when they invited us in to talk to them.
It's like the exact opposite of everything I
tell my gamers to do. I'm like, never go into
someone's house. Like, oh, I went in the first
day, but we were just like talking to this older
gentleman. He was completely immobile. He didn't
know how he could get to vote. And we were just
showing him, here's how you can get a mail -in
ballot. And just having those conversations,
just really meeting voters where they are. And
I was like, this felt really important, what
I did today. And I kind of kept that with me
and I stayed with UNC Young Dems for a long time,
stayed with the org and we did a lot of virtual
organizing and phone banks in 2020 for council
of state candidates. We did a little bit for
Biden. And then in 2022, I was president of that
org and just stayed doing. All of the things
and kind of remembered the actual grassroots
organizing, talking to voters, everything that
we have to do has to be to reach voters. And
really, really hammered it on that. We ran a
stating location near campus to try and reach
students to get them out to vote. And I worked
really closely with county to county while I
was in college. I know CJ, you worked with them
as well last year. I'm on the campaign and work
with them on Dante's campaign. They are absolute
angels. That really got me interested in the
state legislature and knowing like. These are
the races that are the most important, because
with that one seat that we were able to flip,
Governor Stein had this veto. And that's really
important. And so I kind of just stuck with state
legislatures ever since there. And there's the
whole timeline for you. I don't remember if there
was an actual question in there, but that might
have been an answer to it. That was an answer.
That was the answer, I think, just because it's
also interesting because we can definitely draw
a I guess a through line or rather a connection
between all three of us for for I think all three
of us and for a lot of people in not just North
Carolina but all across America 2016 activated
people because I think just like both of you
and like you just said Megan when I saw the results
come in I'm like what huh no that That makes
absolutely no sense. This guy was polling at
2 % last year. What happened? And I didn't even
know how the electoral college worked. I don't
think I do. I don't think I do now. I don't think
anyone really does, to be honest with you. The
word works is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
Yes. But you know, you do get activated and you
do start like, it's almost like a slow magnetic
pull. You just have to know more and more and
more until you find yourself as the president
of the UNC Young Dems. You're like, oh, I guess
I guess I'm in this now. Was that how it felt?
Did you ever have a moment where you're just
like, oh, no, I am like an activist. No, I mean,
yeah, I mean, I think I did it kind of gradually
and getting more involved in them. I would say
there was a moment in 2022 where Sherry Beasley
was coming to campus with Senator John Ossoff.
And I was like, this is going to be the best
day of my life. Like I get to meet both of them.
It's going to be a great day. I was supposed
to introduce John and I was so hype about that.
I ended up having to introduce my dear friend
Jonah Garson instead who got to introduce John.
But like that day just like with these those
politicians and just being like, this is a lot
of people like this could be the coolest thing
in their life. I thought it would be really cool.
But that whole day I've just been like working
with all of the staffers to help get the event
ready and all of that. I was like, huh, this
is really what it is. Just a bunch of people
doing some crazy work, some things that you would
never expect the political staffers that you
see to be doing to get set up for events and
work through all of this. It was really cool
being on that stage and talk about some of the
work we were doing and seeing people in the audience
who were DNC members and elected officials nodding
along, like, yeah, good job. And it's like, oh,
yeah. You're doing good work. This is good. I
am good. You like me. You really like me. I do
think for a lot of the level staffers, whether,
you know, they're like actually like working
like an office or if they're out on the campaign
trail or anything like that, there is definitely
a moment or two where they kind of like stopped
and like look around. They're like, oh my God,
this is incredible. Or like, oh my God, how the
hell did I end up here? Like. I got to meet Bill
Clinton standing behind his bus. We were into
this rally, Dante was introducing him, and I,
at the end, I kind of like, I saw a staffer that
I knew who was on the Harris Wells campaign.
I was like, hey, I had a signal to him, can I
get across that barricade? He's like, yeah, come
around. I had to go around, then I got to take
a photo with Bill. It was, it was pretty cool.
I was like, this is a really cool moment, but
also like these politicians are just people too.
It's just a bunch of people who are trying to
do the work and everything's so much less glamorous
than people think it is but it is fun sometimes
and you get to and you get to hang out behind
the bus with Bill Clinton. Like that was a fun
way to spend my Sunday. Yeah I um you know actually
Megan you had a fundraiser at Dante last year.
that I got to go to and, you know, it was like
all these people there was like, I think actually
it was all of the, it was Anderson Clayton, all
the vice chairs for the state party. Jim Hunt
was there. I think Rachel was there as well,
if I remember correctly. Like just all these
incredible people that hold such status in North
Carolina politics, but also North Carolina political
history by, you know, extent. And I remember
driving home that night, like, thinking, oh my
god, like, you know, yeah, I know that wasn't
my fundraiser, that wasn't my campaign, but oh
my god, I get to be in this room with these incredible
people. I was like, holy shit. I mean, I was
also fortunate enough to be able to meet Bill
Clinton. I'm like, that is amazing. I talked
to him about how he was part of the reason I
ended up playing saxophone all throughout middle
school and high school was because I saw him
when I was like, reel it, reel it. that really
little he just kind of stopped when i was telling
him that he's like wait what like i shocked him
into silence for like three seconds like that's
like the forward leader of the free world right
there i stopped him with jackson like holy shit
but no like this this work that we get to do
is incredible it is i i don't say that to like
you know pat ourselves on the back or whatever
no it's incredibly taxing yeah that's for sure
it is exhausting it is tiring it's you know Like,
constant, like, emotional, mental drainage and
damage is truly, um, it's a lot of disappointment.
It's a lot of disappointment. Most races that
we run, we will not. And I will say my win streak
did not start until 2023. Um, those are the races
I managed, but like, in 2022, she was a big race
that we had been working for on campus. There
were a lot of some other state legislature races
across the state that we've been following that
we lost Linda Cooper says the previous Deb before
the Republican that don't pay unseated. I'm Brian
focus and seeing a lot of these really good leaders
get out. It's really crushing and it's hard to
see that. But I think. Definitely with you at
the helm, I think is more what's impressive because
I, especially at 23 years old, most people can't
say that they've done that. So, but, you know,
Barry, you definitely are exhibiting some humility
right now. So we appreciate that too. But I will
say like, Even though I had really small roles
on any of those previous campaigns, but it's
like having having a couple of losses before
you get to the wins, I think can be really helpful
because if you just come into this job and all
you ever do is win, I'm like. What's wrong with
you? Are you paying someone off? Like what, what
kind of like campaign God did you like make a
deal with to keep doing this? But I think kind
of having those be the foundation and saying,
Oh my God, we put all this work in didn't win,
but it was still really important work and it
gave a really good opportunity to build skills
with that. But what's the best way to convince
voters? What's the best way to build a team that
can get out and talk to those voters was still
really valuable. And also seeing. the consequences
of what happens when you do lose to kind of have
that to motivate me to do the best that I possibly
can for the candidates that I've worked for.
And even if that means working 23 hour days once
in a while, there was literal blood, sweat and
tears all the time. Emphasis on the sweat, but
there was a little bit of the other two too.
So just got to do it all. I literally have a
scar from slicing my arm open with a cardboard
sign. The night before that fundraiser that you
mentioned, CJ, I was in the ER because I tried
to fix my printer with a kitchen knife. Don't
fix appliances with kitchen knives, guys. And
I tried to fix my printer because it broke and
I needed to print out the name tags for the fundraiser.
Just slice my thumb a little bit. It's okay.
But again, that's just how it works. You do all
the things like that. Yeah, exactly. Like you
said at the beginning of this, these campaigns
that we ran are very, very small. For most of
us, it was like a staff of one. It was us, right?
Like social media, field, fundraising, everything
was just us. Talking your candidate down from
the ledge. Yeah. But I think there is this great
perception. I'm someone who loves political dramas
on TV, and we see all this stuff. It is not glamorous.
It is not sexy. It is not how these people put
in their... I had someone come up to me and they're
like, oh, I would love to read your job description.
Because I was wearing this really nice dress.
I had sneakers on with it, too. And I was breaking
down seven -foot tables that were bigger than
me to help put them down at the end of the event.
And earlier that day, I'd been on the ground
putting yard signs together. But then at the
same time, I'm like... On a call of consultants
the same day, managing million dollar media budgets
and it's just you do all of the things and it's
really fun. Really rewarding, but it's tired.
It's tiring at the end of some of those days.
But again, I just know, like, the impact we have.
And the impact you all had to on the race is
just something you can't replicate. And it's
really, really important to always keep that
in mind. You know, I'm sure there's other campaigns
that aren't state legislature that are a little
sexier. that we're really doing really hard,
impactful work on there. Absolutely. I mean,
it starts at the bottom, right? People like to
talk about the influence of the top of the ticket
down. I think that if given the right motivation,
you can have just as much power coming from the
bottom of the ticket up. You might get people
out to vote for their local school board member
that they've met in person. would not have gone
out to vote for either Donald Trump or Kamala
Harris. Yeah, and I mean, in Dante's district,
so there were two districts in 2024 that were
won by Trump that Dems won, and that was Lindsay
Prather out in Buncombe and that was Dante and
Wilson. And I think a lot of that, I keep saying
this, about having the right messenger, but I
think a lot of that came to people trusted Dante.
He was a really good recruit for that district.
He was local. He looked, he sounded like them.
And he was able to just share this message in
a really authentic way. This is what this community
needs. This is what this community doesn't need
and people trust them. And I think that's just
a big thing for some of those on why that message
was able to able to pierce through, but Kamala's
wasn't and something I think folks should keep
in mind and be really intentional about candidate
recruitment. Well, it definitely helps that he
had a good manager with him, but it also helps
that the guy that he was running against was
an actual goblin. Possibly he was definitely
a character. I will say both Dante and his opponent
made my job easy at times. So I'll work with.
Yeah. One thing I wanted to kind of talk about
really briefly or get your thoughts on, because
I know we're kind of approaching the end here,
but a few minutes ago you were talking about
like building stuff and whatnot. One thing my
personal philosophy when it comes to like organizing
and managing campaigns and whatnot, and I haven't
always been able to do this, but one thing that
I like to at least try to do is try and leave
some sort of foundation, some sort of base of
scaffolding so to say for the next campaign.
to come build on whether or not whether it's,
you know, someone running for election or a new
candidate or whatnot. For you, Megan and Adrienne,
what do you see as like the best way of kind
of going about building that foundation, building
that scaffolding? I would say the big thing is
like making sure that the campaign is not the
only thing that's building and leaving that behind.
Like your local county parties, the local organizations
that are on the ground are going to outlast any
candidate and making sure that It's not just
one campaign leaving it that they know and have
the resources on how to act on it. I think, especially
in Dante's district, this was one that had never
really seen proper investment until this year.
There was a strong coordinated campaign there.
We spent like 1 .2 million dollars on paid communications.
That never happened before. And just also showing
that this is what it takes. to when we talk about
winning in rural areas, we talk about winning
outside of our cities. This is the amount of
resources that you need in order to do that.
And kind of showing folks it's a little bit different
than what we're used to. You have to show up
and do very specific work. It's canvassing, it's
phone banking, it's all of these things to reach
voters. And just kind of showing that this is
what needs to be done. This is what is possible
with doing it. Also, this is a subtle plug. is
that people need to have staff on the ground.
The reason Nante was able to do that is because
I was full -time there. There were other campaigns
that had full -time staff that were able to manage
this, but so many people don't have that ability.
You can't raise money like that for a school
board campaign. You have someone who's volunteer
who's probably also a teacher, and they just
don't have time to have that infrastructure in
there. And so it's really trying to build something
that folks can come into and work with. So every
campaign isn't having to rebuild. And so I'm
hoping that we did leave some of that behind
a little bit of that experience with county parties.
I know that's one thing I love that county to
county does again, love them, going to plug them
forever is that they help a lot in the off year
with building those county parties, whatever
trainings they need, what are some of the resources
we need them to kind of make sure that winning
isn't the exception, it's the norm. for some
of these places. Yeah, absolutely. I have to
echo that and then just add a little bit to that,
you know, building up the infrastructure of some
of these county parties is absolutely crucial
because a lot of them I ran a race that oversaw
that contained four counties and within those
four counties there were basically one and a
half functioning county parties. If we had had
four that had regular volunteers that had people
that I could contact swiftly. There's a lot of
infrastructure that's lacking in a lot of these
places. And I think when you build the connections,
like I'm sure that y 'all had to do as well,
like the Rolodexes, but also the email chains
and things like that, that doesn't go away when
the campaign ends, win or lose. You need to keep
those connections together, keep that infrastructure
working. Even if that means building a website
for an 80 -year -old woman. who is running the
county, who is the county chair of the county
party. I'm not the old woman in this scenario.
I was the one helping the old one. But the point
of all that is, I think that's very, very good
advice. And I just think that we need to do a
better job of that, both as activists and strategists
and as campaign managers. Everybody needs to.
Sorry, I'm just going to say, and I also think
tapping into some folks that may not typically
be where you look for political guidance and
political help, especially in counties like Wilson,
where you have large black populations. Churches
are so important for political organizing talk
about getting someone that people trust to talk
to. I think going around to those buildings and
keeping those connections going. And also, there's
a lot of nonprofits and organizations that do
really important work. And it's just trying to
bring them all together whatever way make sense
because they never stop advocating. They never
stop caring for those communities. uh and it's
just bringing that a little bit more into the
political fold as well and that doesn't mean
like electioneering from the pulpit you gotta
because they they don't really appreciate that
um but yeah you got to be smart about it you
got to look in the places where people aren't
necessarily expecting it right um but we are
almost out of time um megan we have got to ask
you very very important question um please don't
mess this up what is your go -to cookout order
Keep in mind you might get cancelled, but so
I'm actually vegan, which makes this hard to
answer. So if I were to go out page and fries,
I get a big order of those. I will say, though,
on occasion while I was in Wilson, if I was being
a bad vegan, sometimes the jalapeno cheddar is
pretty good. But I'm more of a Taco Bell girl
in general. But occasion fries are always a solid
choice. That's fair. What? Okay, so if not that,
what's a staple of North Carolina that you think
more people should know about maybe? I'm a really
bad person to ask this question to. I'm a big
fan of customizing spicy potato tacos at Taco
Bell to make them vegan and add jalapenos. I
had that for lunch today and yesterday. And almost
every single day during Geo TV because it was
on my way between one of the polling sites in
the county party office. Well, that's that's
all well and good. We appreciate you at least
trying the Cajun fries to cook out. But the most
important advice I could ever give. Forget all
the campaign stuff. Just eat some Taco Bell.
There you go. No, thank you for coming on. It
was great to talk with you again, and specifically
about all this politicking and electioneering
and stuff and hearing it straight from the mouth
of somebody who knows how to win. been great
talking to you again. And would you like to plug
anything? Do you have any socials where people
can follow you, see what you're doing? You know,
you guys don't need to follow me. My socials
are just me being a person on there, but I'll
plug county to county. They just merged with
neighbors on call. If y 'all want to get involved
and help with some of these state legislature
races, they're the place to be. So go check them
out. And also, I don't know, I know it's only
February 2025, but feel free to donate to your
favorite candidates while you're at it. And Alison
Riggs there. Those are my plugs. Well, thank
you so much, Megan. It's been great having you
on. Yes. Thanks to y 'all. It's good to see you.
Well, that's a wrap on today's episode. Again,
a huge thanks to Megan for joining us and sharing
her insights on what it takes to win here in
North Carolina. If you enjoyed this conversation,
make sure to subscribe to the Left of Old North
so you never miss an episode. And we are available
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Facebook, and TikTok at Left of Old North. Oh,
and blue sky. Oh, and blue sky, too. Yeah. So
again, thanks for listening, especially if you
made it this far. We really, really appreciate
it. And we'll see you next time on the left of
Old North.