WEBVTT

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Hey there and welcome back to Left of Old North.

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This is episode number seven. I am your host

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CJ Robinson. And I'm your host Adrian. And today

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we've got kind of an interesting little episode.

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First off we're going to start with our initial

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reactions from outside the State Executive Committee

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meeting for the North Carolina Democratic Party

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from this past weekend. And then we got a interview

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with Megan Wagner, who is the man, or was, I

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should say, the manager for Dante Pittman, whose

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victory broke the Republican supermajority in

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the North Carolina General Assembly. So that's

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going to be a lot of fun. We kind of get into

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what that experience was like, what it's like

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managing in an SEC race. That is State Executive

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Committee, not Southeastern Conference for y

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'all. And yeah without further ado let's get

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into our initial thoughts after our Adventures

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into the land of bureaucracy all right roll the

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clip all right, so we Yeah, you're right. It's

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a little echoey right there. Yeah, that's how

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my mom broke her ankle CJ almost busted his ass

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sliding on some ice out here in Wilson, North

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Carolina So yeah, what are your initial impressions?

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I mean, let's wait. Let's okay real quick. So

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we ended on time Yeah, which is a fucking miracle

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It's it's not the most common We got through

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the entire agenda too. Yeah, which was impressive

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Even though I feel like they did have to kind

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of rush some people through the microphone to

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get that done a couple times. I think there was

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just a general reaction of like, okay, let's

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get through this damn thing. Yeah. And I think

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what it is is, you know, a lot of people, they

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are sacrificing their week or part of their weekend.

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They are sacrificing their time and they are

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here to take care of business. So, yeah. Although

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I would definitely argue that there are many

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times where somebody gets up to speak. and like

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has a problem with something, but if they read

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any part of the plan of organization or the bylaws

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or anything like that, they would see that all

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of this stuff is part of the process and they

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should have been prepared to come here and argue

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all this stuff. There's definitely some homework

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that should be done before all this starts. Yeah,

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you can't show up to these and then be like,

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well, you know. I don't agree with this thing

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or this little thing and then expect everybody

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to be on your side with that. Especially when

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it means going through some things like line

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by line. Because people famously love getting

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down to the nitty gritty when there's 600 people

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present. And you know, a whole day's worth of

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work ahead. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about the

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the big thing though, but Why everyone really

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kind of came out here for the main event? So

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say and you know, that is the chair elections

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and vice chair elections the leadership elections

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for the state party Yeah, so that included I

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mean really the only actual elections that really

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took place was the chair the vice chair Secretary

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secretary and that's it really so essentially

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the second and third vice chair. There were no

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challengers announced in advance or from the

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floor. And so we were able to, what is it, vote

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by acclamation? Yeah, vote by acclamation. Yeah,

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to retain Dr. Kimberly Hardy and Elijah King

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as second and third vice chair, respectively.

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And then for first vice chair, Build up to it.

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Yeah, that works there was Jonah Garson who is

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the incumbent and then we he had challenges from

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Jason Butler and Aaron Johnson. Yeah, and It

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was I would say pretty decidedly in Or went into

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Jonah. Yeah, he had I think 299 votes, there

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were 600, or it was like 452 votes cast, almost

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500, something like that. And they needed 250

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votes to win, and he got way beyond that. But

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it wasn't a bad showing for Aaron. No, it wasn't.

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I think he got like 180 -something, 190 -something

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votes. That sounds about right. And there was

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a bit of salaciousness, I think, maybe we can

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probably talk about. Yeah, now that it's kind

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of all over there was definitely attempt to try

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and slander First vice chair Jonah Garson prior

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to this vote taking place and let me just say

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from a personal perspective so as we're talking

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about in the pod before AJ and I have both been

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campaign managers. We were both campaign managers

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this past cycle Can I say personally, Jonah helped

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out a lot on the campaigns I was managing. He

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showed up, he helped knock doors, came to fundraisers,

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et cetera, et cetera. He showed up for... He

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showed up for... In case y 'all haven't figured

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this out, we were actually recording outside.

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Sally B Howard school or at this took place.

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Yeah, literally moments after we walked out the

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door. Yes, we were sweating profusely Push hot

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in there pushing old women out of the way. Well,

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maybe you know I'm trying to get implemented

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that now. So anyway, that's what I was saying

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Jonah helped out a lot on the campaign I was

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managing and I could not be more proud to have

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cast my vote for him as an SEC member but There

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are all these like Adrian said salacious, you

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know attacks and baseless attacks on Jonah on

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this character all this stuff is absolutely inexcusable

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is immature and The way I look at it is If someone

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has something to say about me or about someone

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in the party in general If they have a problem

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with the way, they're doing things then that

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person needs to you know, actually go about this

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appropriately or, you know, run for chair themselves.

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Not hide behind an anonymous email, not leak

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it to a reporter with a substack and whatnot.

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Yeah, these were all rumors or previously alleged

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things. I don't know how deep this goes exactly.

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This is a lot of stuff that has been kind of...

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enclosed circles. I won't go into detail just

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so I don't, you know, reopen the wound. I'm sure

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if you know somebody or if you dig hard enough

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you can find it. But these kinds of rumors, I

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mean, all they really serve to do is to try and

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survive. Yeah, to push somebody out of a running

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for something that like has no bearing on their

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ability to do the job. I mean, in all honesty,

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it's just bullshit. That's all it is. But Aaron

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accepted his loss, I thought, really graciously.

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Oh, yeah, incredibly graciously. And called for

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everybody to, whoever was perpetuating these...

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Attacks. ...verbal assault, or rather written

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assaults, to knock it the fuck off. Yeah. In

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not so many words. As they should. I mean...

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Obviously, we don't know what the temperature

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is gonna be two years from now, but You know,

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hopefully this isn't We don't see a repeat of

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this in two years. I don't think we will I mean

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mate if if we It's all gonna depend on midterms.

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Yeah, I agree like if if for some reason We can't

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raise enough money or rather. Excuse me. I should

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say For some reason, if we can't, if the Democratic

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Party cannot raise enough money, if they lose

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seats in droves, if they make promises and then

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don't live up to them, these are the kinds of

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things that get people overturned and ousted.

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But in all honesty, just kind of based off what

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we've seen so far over the past two years, And

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what I've heard and what I know about the character

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of these people in charge, I don't think that's

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anything to worry about really. I don't think

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so either, but that kind of brings us to our

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big last race, which was for the chair position,

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which is currently held by 27 year old Anderson

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Breeze Clayton, who we have already, I mean,

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we gave our support publicly. And she won in

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a landslide. Yes. It was not close at all. Yeah,

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so the results. Yeah, she won it very handedly.

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She had 405 votes to 71 votes. So that is 83

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.51 % to 14 .64%. Yeah. And this is another instance

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where I... I will say that her opponent, this

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is one of those instances where I will say that

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her opponent, Marlando Pridgen, I think it was

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just a few different things in his speech and

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in the way he kind of professed his candidacy

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online that I think really sort of hindered his

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ability to gain a lot of votes. One of the things

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being that like, focusing really hard on the

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need for a systemic... Or, what did he call it,

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a very systematic, oh, a strategic plan. A laid

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out point by point strategic plan. And, you know,

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on its face, that makes sense. Yeah, no it does.

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But, and this is just my interpretation, this

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is my opinion, but during his speech he said

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that we need to be unpredictable. And that caught

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me by surprise because I thought the whole selling

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point was that we're going to be very strategic

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and we're going to lay it all out there. I mean,

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it's not exactly like, I hate to use them as

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an example, but it's not exactly like Republicans

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have not been by the book. They've had a literal

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playbook for years now and they've pretty much

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followed it to a T. And look what's happened.

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They've done a great job. Yeah. Yeah. Great being

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the operative word for themselves, yes. Great

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as far as... They've been successful. They've

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won. Yeah. There we go. Yeah, they have been

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successful, and I think the problem is that you're

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kind of mixing up this feeling, this need, to

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be both strategic, but also unpredictable, and

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using that as a selling point to say, what exactly?

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Right. I think... That you need to have a strategic

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plan? that it'll be vested in you just do whatever

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I say, but let's Let's not be so predictable

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that everybody knows what's going on at any point

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in time, right? And I think that's one thing

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that was that struck me about Pridgen's campaign

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was He kept on saying, you know, you need a strategic

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plan You need strategic plan and then kept on

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accusing the party of not having a plan. We've

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seen their plan we've seen it work out and on

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or during an election where Democrats did really

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poorly across the entire country. North Carolina

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stood out as a little blue beacon of hope to

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some extent. So we've seen their plan. We know

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the current chair and the vice chairs and everyone

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have a plan. But he, when asked about it online

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and whatnot, did not. I specifically asked him

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online in a little forum if he had a plan. you

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know said that he would not talk about publicly

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on you know that platform that we were on and

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to come to an event that he was at which you

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know honestly all transparency I did not go to

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but still if you're if you're asking to have

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someone vote for you if you're asking someone

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to you know support you you need to tell them

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your plan It's that simple. Yeah. Or at least

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have a vision you can sell them on and not just,

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you know, a tax on the chair and that's it. Right.

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It does come to a point where you're kind of

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like, okay, you say you have a plan. So what

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is the plan? Well, I can't tell you my plan.

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You got to hire me and then I'll tell you the

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plan. It's literally that bit from the office.

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We do have a need for a strategic plan. Yes.

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Nobody's arguing that. But if your plan is just,

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vest all control in me, I will make sure it gets

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done. That's not a plan. That's just authoritarianism.

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That's concepts of a plan. We've seen that happen

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before. Just hire a billionaire, I guess, to

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do it all for you and then you're good. Those

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are our initial thoughts. I think it's... Very

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interesting that everybody has a very wide array

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of what they feel like are the main points that

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we should be following going forward. The main

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attack points. Yeah. Everybody has plenty of

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ideas about that. They do. And I mean, they're

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entitled. They're perfectly entitled to them.

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They really are. Any good ones you've heard tonight?

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I mean... That you're like, yeah, absolutely.

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I mean... As far as plans go, I mean year -round

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organizing I think still is something that the

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party is pursuing and needs to continue to pursue

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because I mean yes 2025 is like the year of municipal

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elections and whatnot but there's still a lot

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of work to be done. Yeah there is a tendency

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to think that organizing just needs to be done

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right up to the lead up to an election. Yeah

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and that that's not the case the way I've always

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personally looked at it. is a lot of campaigns

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are kinda like little upstart businesses and

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whatnot. They come into town, they set up shop,

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they do all this stuff, and then, I said upstart,

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it's startup businesses. But they come into town,

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they set up, and then they do their job, they

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leave, and that's it. They don't leave anything

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behind. They don't leave any type of platform,

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scaffolding, whatever you wanna call it, for

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future campaigns, future businesses to build

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off of. and so you have to just kind of start

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over. But what I like about what the party is

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doing and what they're investing in, what they

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want to continue doing, is a year -round organizing.

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That way there's not an opportunity for that

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startup business to collapse. So say there's

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a chance for us to continue building off of the

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momentum we started back in November, really

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all of 2024, and carry that through 2025, through

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the municipals and all that stuff, and into 2026.

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Absolutely. And then we can roll off the back

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of that and go into 2028. And 2027, of course.

00:15:52.120 --> 00:15:55.919
Every year is an election year, folks. But 2028

00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:59.000
will be the next big presidential election year.

00:15:59.279 --> 00:16:02.419
And that's where the lead up, that's where all

00:16:02.419 --> 00:16:08.779
the planning really comes into play. It's February

00:16:08.779 --> 00:16:13.600
2025 right now. Yeah, we get municipalities in

00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:15.059
November, but you know what, we're also gonna,

00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:17.440
we're already gonna start hearing about midterms

00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:19.679
here in the next couple months, I'm sure. Absolutely.

00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:22.100
People announcing, people trying to get stuff

00:16:22.100 --> 00:16:26.159
ready to go, so we'll see. Yeah, campaigns for

00:16:26.159 --> 00:16:27.919
all that are really gonna start ramping up in

00:16:27.919 --> 00:16:31.919
June, because that's when, I believe that's when

00:16:31.919 --> 00:16:35.919
people are able to file. I think so, that sounds

00:16:35.919 --> 00:16:40.429
right. So when that comes around, you know, We're

00:16:40.429 --> 00:16:42.570
going to be on the lookout for people that inspire

00:16:42.570 --> 00:16:46.350
us or that are trying to run again. And maybe

00:16:46.350 --> 00:16:49.490
previously it didn't work out. I've got a few

00:16:49.490 --> 00:16:51.330
county commissioners that I'm keeping my eyes

00:16:51.330 --> 00:16:55.490
on. I know I've got one, that's the one for State

00:16:55.490 --> 00:16:58.690
House I would love to see run. Who previously

00:16:58.690 --> 00:17:02.730
ran for State Senate. But we'll keep you all

00:17:02.730 --> 00:17:06.809
focused and hopefully you keep tuned in. These

00:17:06.809 --> 00:17:09.269
are our initial thoughts. Stay on the left of

00:17:09.269 --> 00:17:12.029
old north folks. So those were our initial thoughts

00:17:12.029 --> 00:17:16.190
and I mean, I don't know about you But I still

00:17:16.190 --> 00:17:18.609
feel pretty much the same way that I did right

00:17:18.609 --> 00:17:21.990
after that night. So yeah the same I mean we

00:17:21.990 --> 00:17:24.390
were recording this on Tuesday night. So just

00:17:24.390 --> 00:17:26.730
a few nights, right? Yeah, it's Tuesday Yeah,

00:17:26.730 --> 00:17:30.130
it is Tuesday a few nights after the meeting

00:17:30.130 --> 00:17:33.430
and yeah, I also feel pretty much the same I'm

00:17:33.430 --> 00:17:36.759
excited to see where the party goes from here.

00:17:37.140 --> 00:17:39.859
So, and you know, we were just talking a few

00:17:39.859 --> 00:17:43.119
minutes ago about Jonah Garson's victory as a

00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:45.779
first vice chair. And well, you know, we got

00:17:45.779 --> 00:17:48.559
Megan Wagner's interview up next and she just

00:17:48.559 --> 00:17:51.200
so happened to be his campaign manager for the

00:17:51.200 --> 00:17:54.920
SEC vice chair. Yeah. So we're going to get to

00:17:54.920 --> 00:17:58.200
hear a little bit from her about running campaigns,

00:17:58.700 --> 00:18:01.359
about breaking the super majority, about how

00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:04.160
we can reach young people in North Carolina both

00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:09.440
just as Democrats but also to politically activate

00:18:09.440 --> 00:18:12.160
them and to see how we can actually start winning

00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:15.059
a little bit in the state instead of just trying

00:18:15.059 --> 00:18:17.440
to stop the bleeding. Breaking the super majority

00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:21.279
is no small feat and I think we really owe it

00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:24.859
to her and also to Dante Pittman for having done

00:18:24.859 --> 00:18:27.240
that. So we hope you'll stay and listen for this

00:18:27.240 --> 00:18:29.750
interview with Megan Wagner. Thanks for staying

00:18:29.750 --> 00:18:32.349
on the left a little north with us. Today we're

00:18:32.349 --> 00:18:35.109
joined by someone who knows how to win elections

00:18:35.109 --> 00:18:38.329
in North Carolina. Megan Wagner, a campaign manager

00:18:38.329 --> 00:18:41.930
with a perfect 3 -0 record on her belt. She's

00:18:41.930 --> 00:18:43.970
played a key role in electing progressive leaders

00:18:43.970 --> 00:18:46.990
like Theodore Nollert to Chappahill Town Council,

00:18:47.549 --> 00:18:50.190
Dante Pittman to the NC House and District 24,

00:18:50.690 --> 00:18:53.789
and most recently helped secure Jonah Garson's

00:18:53.789 --> 00:18:56.730
re -election as the North Carolina Democratic

00:18:56.730 --> 00:18:59.859
Party's first vice chair. Megan has been in the

00:18:59.859 --> 00:19:01.900
trenches of North Carolina politics for a time

00:19:01.900 --> 00:19:04.599
shaping campaigns, building grassroots movements,

00:19:05.259 --> 00:19:07.819
and proving that smart strategy and relentless

00:19:07.819 --> 00:19:11.279
organizing can deliver real victories. So we're

00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:13.779
excited to have her on to get her take on what

00:19:13.779 --> 00:19:16.220
it takes to win this state, the challenges of

00:19:16.220 --> 00:19:18.740
running progressive campaigns, and maybe give

00:19:18.740 --> 00:19:22.140
us some pointers on how we can actually win elections

00:19:22.140 --> 00:19:24.640
next time. Megan, thanks for having me. Thanks

00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:26.599
for coming on. Absolutely. Thanks for having

00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:29.599
me guys. Yeah. So a little bit of background

00:19:29.599 --> 00:19:33.920
about the three of us. We all worked for the

00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.900
North Carolina House Caucus, the Democratic House

00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:39.980
Caucus, to try and get some House candidates

00:19:39.980 --> 00:19:43.579
elected. And spoilers, only one of us succeeded.

00:19:44.639 --> 00:19:48.140
Very competitive, so happy to be the one. And

00:19:48.140 --> 00:19:50.039
I called you that night that we were sitting

00:19:50.039 --> 00:19:54.440
there pressing F5 on our laptops until the keys

00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:57.740
almost broke to congratulate you because Dante

00:19:57.740 --> 00:20:02.460
Pittman, another fellow young Democrat, he's

00:20:02.460 --> 00:20:08.359
27 now? 28. Not that I haven't memorized or anything

00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:12.200
still. No, I'm sure you don't. Yeah, you probably

00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:14.480
still have every part of that just seared into

00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:16.900
your brain, right? You have no idea. Well, I

00:20:16.900 --> 00:20:20.380
hope you can give us an idea. So I just want

00:20:20.380 --> 00:20:24.559
to hear like your take on I mean, now that it's

00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:27.000
been a few months and considering that we still

00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.400
have some races actually going on. I mean, we've

00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:31.900
talked about the Alice and Riggs race here a

00:20:31.900 --> 00:20:34.640
few times on the podcast. And how does it feel

00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:37.700
to be able to sit back and rest on your laurels

00:20:37.700 --> 00:20:41.440
there for a little bit? Yeah, I mean, it's been

00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:44.640
really good to just number one, rest after the

00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.940
campaign and like take time to collect myself

00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:49.759
and actually sit down and think about everything

00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:52.440
that we did because I think especially with the

00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:55.200
campaigns that we run, we don't have huge staffs.

00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:57.500
You don't have a bunch of people helping us do

00:20:57.500 --> 00:21:01.680
all the things. Like, there is not a single thing

00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:04.059
that was not in my job description, not a single

00:21:04.059 --> 00:21:06.599
task too small that we weren't doing. And so

00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:08.319
there's not a lot of time to sit there as you're

00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:10.180
going and think about something we did last week

00:21:10.180 --> 00:21:11.900
or like a month ago or these really good things

00:21:11.900 --> 00:21:13.640
that we're doing. It's just trying to survive

00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:16.299
kind of to get to the end and do the job. And

00:21:16.299 --> 00:21:18.759
now with what we're seeing with so much dangerous

00:21:18.970 --> 00:21:20.730
stuff coming out of the Trump administration

00:21:20.730 --> 00:21:23.150
and some of the bad ideas that Republicans already

00:21:23.150 --> 00:21:25.230
have in the state legislature, just knowing that

00:21:25.230 --> 00:21:28.049
we have kind of that one level of protection

00:21:28.049 --> 00:21:30.730
there through Governor Stein having his veto

00:21:30.730 --> 00:21:33.029
and knowing that I was able to play a big part

00:21:33.029 --> 00:21:35.970
in that is really valuable. And it helps with

00:21:35.970 --> 00:21:38.829
right now with the downtime that I have to know

00:21:38.829 --> 00:21:40.670
that like that work was still important. And

00:21:40.670 --> 00:21:43.029
also with just again, everything nationally knowing

00:21:43.029 --> 00:21:45.130
that like, okay, there's still this bright spot.

00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:48.019
that we can hold on to and trying not to despair

00:21:48.019 --> 00:21:50.099
too much about the things that are out of our

00:21:50.099 --> 00:21:52.980
control. Yeah, and like you didn't get to rest

00:21:52.980 --> 00:21:55.079
on your laurels for too long because pretty much

00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:58.119
immediately started working for Jonah. Jonah

00:21:58.119 --> 00:22:02.140
Garson, again, NCDP's first vice chair, recently

00:22:02.140 --> 00:22:06.720
reelected. Now, I have not seen what the inside

00:22:06.720 --> 00:22:08.799
of a campaign like that looks like. Can you tell

00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:11.599
us a little bit about that? Just a little peek

00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:14.400
behind the curtain. Yeah, I would say that a

00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:18.259
campaign like that, it's in a way similar to

00:22:18.259 --> 00:22:22.019
a larger campaign, but also in a way very different.

00:22:23.309 --> 00:22:25.289
These aren't voters that you've never met before.

00:22:25.390 --> 00:22:27.390
They're not voters who have no idea what's going

00:22:27.390 --> 00:22:29.009
on and you're trying to bring them to the table.

00:22:29.430 --> 00:22:31.230
These are people who may know, they're members

00:22:31.230 --> 00:22:33.490
of the state executive committee. They're very

00:22:33.490 --> 00:22:35.430
involved. They sometimes know better than we

00:22:35.430 --> 00:22:38.349
do what's going on. And so it's really just saying,

00:22:38.950 --> 00:22:41.589
do they want Jonah to continue being one of their

00:22:41.589 --> 00:22:45.240
leaders? What did they think about the past election

00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:47.460
as people who were just as much, if not more

00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:49.839
on the ground than we were? And so it was really

00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:51.859
just one -on -one conversations with as many

00:22:51.859 --> 00:22:53.799
people as we could have, making sure they were

00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:55.819
getting outreach folks we couldn't reach by phone,

00:22:55.859 --> 00:22:57.859
making sure they were getting mail or email just

00:22:57.859 --> 00:22:59.980
to really reach out to folks, make sure that

00:22:59.980 --> 00:23:02.440
they felt heard and supported by their party.

00:23:03.140 --> 00:23:05.900
Was that was that Josie? No, that was my cat.

00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:14.269
Josie should be asleep. Should be. Yeah, it was,

00:23:14.269 --> 00:23:17.150
I gotta say, it was kind of interesting because,

00:23:17.150 --> 00:23:19.990
you know, I guess in full disclosure, all three

00:23:19.990 --> 00:23:23.309
of us were actually at the SEC meeting this past

00:23:23.309 --> 00:23:26.089
weekend whenever Jonah got reelected. Megan,

00:23:26.289 --> 00:23:29.420
of course, because, you know, manager. And I

00:23:29.420 --> 00:23:32.279
was there because I'm an SEC member myself. And

00:23:32.279 --> 00:23:35.980
Adrian, you were a proxy? Yeah, I was proxying

00:23:35.980 --> 00:23:38.880
for somebody else that was functioning in a different

00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:42.839
capacity for the Democratic Party. So they don't

00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:45.579
feel like it's good to cross those beams, you

00:23:45.579 --> 00:23:48.920
know, both being a voting member and also working.

00:23:49.150 --> 00:23:52.410
Directly with the leadership there. So I can

00:23:52.410 --> 00:23:54.029
understand that but yeah, we were all there in

00:23:54.029 --> 00:23:56.549
different capacities It was pretty pretty interesting.

00:23:56.549 --> 00:23:59.230
Yeah, and um, that was interesting just kind

00:23:59.230 --> 00:24:03.730
of seeing how things Are wildly different but

00:24:03.730 --> 00:24:07.630
also incredibly similar Going from, you know

00:24:07.630 --> 00:24:10.730
a state house race to you know, just this group

00:24:10.730 --> 00:24:13.910
of what do we have like 600 sec members or something

00:24:13.910 --> 00:24:17.880
with them about 600. Yeah That voter universe

00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:22.940
definitely shrinks a lot. So speaking of, did

00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:27.019
you ever get into things like, you know, persuasion

00:24:27.019 --> 00:24:28.779
universes or anything like that? I mean, you

00:24:28.779 --> 00:24:30.259
already kind of talked about earlier, you know,

00:24:30.579 --> 00:24:32.500
these aren't like complete strangers or anything

00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:34.859
like that, but still there's relationships that

00:24:34.859 --> 00:24:38.160
have to be built, maintained, that kind of thing.

00:24:38.819 --> 00:24:41.539
Yeah, I wouldn't say we had specific persuasion

00:24:41.539 --> 00:24:44.700
universes, but again, these are people that We've

00:24:44.700 --> 00:24:47.180
been working alongside for the past 2 years.

00:24:47.180 --> 00:24:49.160
We knew some of the folks that might need a little

00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:51.940
massaging to possibly get them to a yes and want

00:24:51.940 --> 00:24:53.359
to vote. Yes. And there's some folks, we know

00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:55.279
they should be pretty solid. There's some folks,

00:24:55.299 --> 00:24:56.559
we know they're probably going to vote against

00:24:56.559 --> 00:24:59.980
us. And so we had a pretty good idea of where

00:24:59.980 --> 00:25:02.880
some of those people stood and just really try

00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:05.640
to again, be really open and have those conversations

00:25:05.640 --> 00:25:08.559
about what they want to see from the party. Yeah,

00:25:08.559 --> 00:25:11.480
and, you know, considering there were only like,

00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:17.819
3 real races. It was decently close between Jonah

00:25:17.819 --> 00:25:21.059
and his opponent. Well, the runner up opponent,

00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:24.599
Aaron Johnson. I just want to know like, because

00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:27.579
like, how did you feel right before the count

00:25:27.579 --> 00:25:30.759
came up? And then they announced who had actually

00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:33.660
won the vote. Yeah, I mean, we felt pretty good

00:25:33.660 --> 00:25:36.440
going into it. We had our whip count, which we

00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:39.299
anticipated to be about 53 % of the body. I think

00:25:39.299 --> 00:25:42.039
the actual count was higher than that. Percentage

00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:43.920
wise, because there was a smaller number of members

00:25:43.920 --> 00:25:46.779
there, but we felt really confident going into

00:25:46.779 --> 00:25:48.900
it because we had had a lot of those conversations.

00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.720
We had done the work code everyone know these

00:25:52.720 --> 00:25:56.579
are folks who are 1, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, and to just

00:25:56.579 --> 00:25:58.599
kind of have an idea of where most people stood

00:25:58.599 --> 00:26:01.980
going in. to it so we felt pretty good i was

00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:04.740
of course nervous because you get the whole go

00:26:04.740 --> 00:26:06.440
tv phase which is normally like a month of the

00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:09.319
campaign in like four days um we felt pretty

00:26:09.319 --> 00:26:11.220
good going into it and trusted the work that

00:26:11.220 --> 00:26:15.119
we had done and clearly it paid off so Do you

00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:16.559
think it was harder trying to interface with

00:26:16.559 --> 00:26:19.220
people who were almost exclusively on zoom and

00:26:19.220 --> 00:26:21.119
like trying to make sure that you had their votes?

00:26:21.319 --> 00:26:22.779
I know that sounds like a weird question, but

00:26:22.779 --> 00:26:24.960
like I feel like it could be easier to persuade

00:26:24.960 --> 00:26:27.319
people in person, especially if it's kind of

00:26:27.319 --> 00:26:29.960
last minute. Yeah, I will say most of the folks

00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:32.339
that we had connected with them long before the

00:26:32.339 --> 00:26:34.769
meeting. Um, the meeting was kind of just, it's

00:26:34.769 --> 00:26:36.670
like, when people are walking into the voting

00:26:36.670 --> 00:26:38.250
site, you still try to get them, like, when you're

00:26:38.250 --> 00:26:39.809
poll grading kind of the same thing. We were

00:26:39.809 --> 00:26:41.509
talking to everyone that was there in the building.

00:26:41.569 --> 00:26:43.710
Um, but on zoom, we couldn't really be in that

00:26:43.710 --> 00:26:46.250
space at the same time is pretty much impossible.

00:26:46.809 --> 00:26:48.849
Um, but we had talked to everyone really ahead

00:26:48.849 --> 00:26:50.630
of time to make sure we got that information.

00:26:50.710 --> 00:26:52.890
So we weren't having to rely on trying to interface

00:26:52.890 --> 00:26:55.589
at the zoom. Gotcha. See, did you have a question?

00:26:55.609 --> 00:26:57.390
I'm sorry. I felt like I stepped on you there

00:26:57.390 --> 00:27:00.109
for a sec. Oh, no, you're good. I had something,

00:27:00.109 --> 00:27:04.430
but I completely lost it. So maybe we'll see.

00:27:04.609 --> 00:27:08.049
Well, so moving a little bit beyond that scope.

00:27:08.369 --> 00:27:13.170
Also recently were the DNC elections and we saw

00:27:13.170 --> 00:27:18.029
some pretty big upsets and victories, one being

00:27:18.029 --> 00:27:22.509
David Hogg becoming the vice chair, which I honestly

00:27:22.509 --> 00:27:26.980
like full disclosure, I was for it. his election

00:27:26.980 --> 00:27:29.200
as vice chair. I didn't think he was going to

00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:32.259
get it. That seemed like pretty far fetched to

00:27:32.259 --> 00:27:35.700
me, but it was interesting to see. But I don't

00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:38.640
know how y 'all swung. I was a Ben Wickler guy.

00:27:39.680 --> 00:27:42.400
And where did you fall on that spectrum there,

00:27:42.579 --> 00:27:45.180
Megan? I have to say I was pretty ambivalent

00:27:45.180 --> 00:27:48.309
towards the whole process. It was clear that

00:27:48.309 --> 00:27:50.089
there was going to be new leadership coming in

00:27:50.089 --> 00:27:52.369
and I think it was a good idea for there to be

00:27:52.369 --> 00:27:55.589
some fresh faces. Ultimately, I ended up supporting

00:27:55.589 --> 00:27:57.910
with Claire. I think I gave him like, 5 bucks

00:27:57.910 --> 00:28:00.369
just to feel included in the electoral process.

00:28:00.970 --> 00:28:03.890
And a lot of that was just because. Number 1,

00:28:03.890 --> 00:28:06.529
I trusted the judgment of Anderson and some of

00:28:06.529 --> 00:28:10.410
the other state party folks and also he helped

00:28:10.410 --> 00:28:13.109
put together an event with N. C. D. P. I think

00:28:13.109 --> 00:28:16.740
it was in July maybe. Between with stems and

00:28:16.740 --> 00:28:18.920
and CDP and Dante was a panelist on there. And

00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:21.180
so I had actually seen him a little bit on a

00:28:21.180 --> 00:28:23.180
zoom before and knew a bit about who he was was

00:28:23.180 --> 00:28:26.000
like. Folks who are also in swing states and

00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:28.400
willing to kind of put the focus and share that.

00:28:28.779 --> 00:28:30.279
With other candidates, I was like, that's an

00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:33.039
impactful leadership styles. I like that. But

00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:35.099
again, I really was pretty ambivalent towards

00:28:35.099 --> 00:28:36.799
the whole thing. I think they were both be great

00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:39.799
options and it seems like Ken is. doing a great

00:28:39.799 --> 00:28:42.220
job. I like what we see with some of what Democrats

00:28:42.220 --> 00:28:45.720
did today going out. So I think it's a good choice.

00:28:45.819 --> 00:28:47.759
I think we're in a good spot. Sure. Do you think

00:28:47.759 --> 00:28:51.720
that what we did today, email chains are effective?

00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:54.720
Do you think that that is something... I mean,

00:28:54.740 --> 00:28:57.859
we've all sent emails trying to get people to

00:28:57.859 --> 00:29:00.779
be informed and also please donate money. So

00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:03.960
if you are subscribed to any of those mailing

00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:05.859
lists, you have been getting a lot of them, I'm

00:29:05.859 --> 00:29:09.650
sure. Do you see anything... that they could

00:29:09.650 --> 00:29:12.190
probably be doing like, we're all on the ground

00:29:12.190 --> 00:29:14.750
here. I have my own thoughts. I'm sure CJ does

00:29:14.750 --> 00:29:18.069
too. But again, we're talking to a winner here.

00:29:18.970 --> 00:29:23.549
So do you see anything that you would personally

00:29:23.549 --> 00:29:27.289
improve upon or that maybe it's going great and

00:29:27.289 --> 00:29:28.730
you're like, no, keep doing what you're doing.

00:29:29.369 --> 00:29:32.109
Yeah, I don't know if this is necessarily an

00:29:32.109 --> 00:29:33.789
improvement, I would say, because I don't know

00:29:33.789 --> 00:29:35.829
if they're already doing this. But I think sometimes

00:29:35.829 --> 00:29:38.410
it's a great message showing what Dems did today.

00:29:38.700 --> 00:29:41.119
But it depends on the messenger who's actually

00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:43.619
getting them to folks. I guess the only time

00:29:43.619 --> 00:29:45.839
people are hearing about this is from the DNC

00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:47.960
sending it to them, especially with some of the

00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:49.759
folks who are more skeptical or moderate, because

00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:52.720
if so, they're not going to listen. But if we're

00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:55.140
able to get those messages on what we did into

00:29:55.140 --> 00:29:58.339
the local stakeholders that folks do trust, who

00:29:58.339 --> 00:30:00.680
are the church leaders, who are the people in

00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:02.980
barbershops and at schools that can share this

00:30:02.980 --> 00:30:04.779
information and say, this is what's happening.

00:30:05.160 --> 00:30:08.619
This is how This item bullet number three on

00:30:08.619 --> 00:30:10.839
the list actually relates to you in your daily

00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:13.240
life and just trying to make sure that that's

00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:15.460
getting to the right messengers. It's a good

00:30:15.460 --> 00:30:18.240
message, but again, it has to be the right people

00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:20.460
sharing that message for folks to actually trust

00:30:20.460 --> 00:30:23.819
it. I think that's very insightful. That's something

00:30:23.819 --> 00:30:26.359
that Dems are struggling with right now is trying

00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:31.460
to penetrate the social sphere the way that Republicans,

00:30:31.819 --> 00:30:34.880
MAGA, people like Steve Bannon specifically have

00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:38.980
been able to do. with unfortunately pretty lethal

00:30:38.980 --> 00:30:43.880
effect so but but i want to um oh sorry go ahead

00:30:43.880 --> 00:30:47.160
cj oh i was just i was just agreeing um yeah

00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:52.200
no um jesus uh yeah so i i do very much agree

00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:55.259
that the unique that the dims that is definitely

00:30:55.259 --> 00:30:57.539
need to work on getting that message out and

00:30:57.539 --> 00:31:00.690
i do like this all of what dims did today sort

00:31:00.690 --> 00:31:02.410
of thing because i think one thing that you're

00:31:02.410 --> 00:31:05.589
seeing a lot in both just you know your everyday

00:31:05.589 --> 00:31:09.170
dems but also your activist dems and your donor

00:31:09.170 --> 00:31:13.650
dems and whatnot are is this sense of you know

00:31:13.650 --> 00:31:15.609
we need y 'all to take action we need y 'all

00:31:15.609 --> 00:31:19.230
to step up and we need to see you actually doing

00:31:19.230 --> 00:31:23.210
something i think there's this perception of

00:31:23.210 --> 00:31:25.970
the dems just being completely spineless so to

00:31:25.970 --> 00:31:30.259
say and you know we can either unable or unwilling

00:31:30.259 --> 00:31:32.900
to fight back against, you know, the Trump administration

00:31:32.900 --> 00:31:35.920
and, you know, Republicans in general. I mean,

00:31:36.099 --> 00:31:38.579
it didn't really help a couple of weeks ago when

00:31:38.579 --> 00:31:40.819
Hugh Jeffries was like, they had the House, they

00:31:40.819 --> 00:31:42.839
had the Senate, they had the White House. Like,

00:31:43.000 --> 00:31:44.619
where are we going to do? I'm like, dude, you've

00:31:44.619 --> 00:31:47.299
had how many years of Republican obstructionism?

00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:49.759
Take a, take a, you know, lesson from their book.

00:31:49.900 --> 00:31:52.059
And so I think something like the whole what

00:31:52.059 --> 00:31:55.440
Dems did the day thing is at least a good step,

00:31:55.720 --> 00:31:57.019
not It's not going to solve all the problems,

00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:00.680
but it's a good first step. Yeah. Uh, and to

00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:04.200
that effect, like I, do you think, um, just,

00:32:04.559 --> 00:32:07.920
I, I guess from a campaign manager perspective,

00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.420
um, like we're, I think we can all speak from

00:32:10.420 --> 00:32:13.480
that perspective, but like when it comes to,

00:32:13.480 --> 00:32:16.019
um, hang on, let me gather my thought again.

00:32:16.339 --> 00:32:19.000
Sorry. I'm going to have to edit out some arms

00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.829
and stuff anyway. So, so sorry. So with that,

00:32:23.009 --> 00:32:25.549
so knowing that this is kind of the game plan

00:32:25.549 --> 00:32:27.910
that they're going forward with and hopefully

00:32:27.910 --> 00:32:31.430
we'll see some effect with that. I could also

00:32:31.430 --> 00:32:37.710
see that because of Trump's already sliding popularity,

00:32:37.869 --> 00:32:41.670
both in polls and pretty obviously like online

00:32:41.670 --> 00:32:44.690
and in town hall meetings. I don't know if you

00:32:44.690 --> 00:32:46.650
guys have been seeing, I'm sure you have, but

00:32:46.650 --> 00:32:49.509
just these town hall meetings, these these meetings

00:32:49.509 --> 00:32:52.789
with representatives across the the states where

00:32:52.789 --> 00:32:56.529
people are just absolutely livid with what they're

00:32:56.529 --> 00:32:59.410
doing in Congress and just kind of letting the

00:32:59.410 --> 00:33:02.670
Trump administration roll over everything with

00:33:02.670 --> 00:33:05.730
what they want to do. And we haven't completely

00:33:05.730 --> 00:33:08.910
abated that with, you know, the election of Dante

00:33:08.910 --> 00:33:12.430
Pittman for one, which helped break the supermajority.

00:33:12.529 --> 00:33:17.170
Thank you very, very much, Megan. But also, like,

00:33:17.410 --> 00:33:20.789
where do we go from here, especially in this

00:33:20.789 --> 00:33:25.079
state? because another poll that is very relevant

00:33:25.079 --> 00:33:29.240
is that we were the lowest turnout in the age

00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:34.720
ranges of 22 to 25, and that's abysmal. And we're

00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:39.160
not quite that age, but we're in that age bracket.

00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:42.500
Well, we're young -ish. Megan, you're still in

00:33:42.500 --> 00:33:45.950
your 20s. It's fine. Not to call you old or anything,

00:33:46.069 --> 00:33:49.470
but I am in the age bracket. So I'm one of them.

00:33:49.890 --> 00:33:52.849
Oh, that's right. You're wait, you're 24, right?

00:33:53.130 --> 00:33:57.569
23. 23. Oh my gosh. Well, congratulations to

00:33:57.569 --> 00:34:00.369
you. And I'm just gonna go and you know, get

00:34:00.369 --> 00:34:04.930
my grave and die. I'm gonna get my AARP card

00:34:04.930 --> 00:34:09.210
and my senior discount and all that shit. Well,

00:34:09.210 --> 00:34:12.190
so as a 23 year old, as somebody who does fit

00:34:12.190 --> 00:34:16.199
that bracket. How do you feel that where can

00:34:16.199 --> 00:34:20.840
we better reach that area of the age demographic?

00:34:21.300 --> 00:34:23.099
Because it doesn't whatever is happening right

00:34:23.099 --> 00:34:27.159
now does not seem to be working. Yeah. I wish

00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:30.340
I had the answer to that, frankly, because if

00:34:30.340 --> 00:34:33.900
I knew I would be doing it. But I feel like it

00:34:33.900 --> 00:34:35.820
kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier

00:34:35.820 --> 00:34:38.400
about like meeting the right messengers. I think

00:34:38.400 --> 00:34:41.260
a lot of young people. So I was a sophomore in

00:34:41.260 --> 00:34:44.489
high school. When trump was elected and we very

00:34:44.489 --> 00:34:48.150
quickly kind of saw like this like backsliding

00:34:48.150 --> 00:34:50.869
of political norms of what we expected from our

00:34:50.869 --> 00:34:54.429
political system And like I was still able to

00:34:54.429 --> 00:34:57.550
remember when things were ever so slightly normal

00:34:57.900 --> 00:35:00.760
And not just completely corrupted and I think

00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:03.559
there's a big generation of folks who they've

00:35:03.559 --> 00:35:06.099
never seen a government that actually functioned

00:35:06.099 --> 00:35:08.340
and worked for them or attempted to work for

00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:11.239
them. And so there's a big mistrust just in general

00:35:11.239 --> 00:35:13.159
that the system is even something that we should

00:35:13.159 --> 00:35:16.320
look at electoral politics matter to a lot of

00:35:16.320 --> 00:35:19.260
young people. It's more focused on issue based

00:35:19.260 --> 00:35:21.599
advocacy or social movements, which I think is

00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:23.320
still the great place for folks to put their

00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:26.739
energy. But that does somehow need to compliment

00:35:26.739 --> 00:35:29.820
what's going on. electorally. And I think just

00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:31.840
getting back to who are the right messengers,

00:35:32.099 --> 00:35:34.079
people don't trust us. They're like, there's

00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:35.800
all these things happening. There's all this

00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:38.280
inaction. Why aren't you doing anything? Why

00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:40.960
didn't you codify Roe v. Wade? And people don't

00:35:40.960 --> 00:35:44.909
necessarily understand. Why those things didn't

00:35:44.909 --> 00:35:47.510
happen and it's there's just so much mistrust

00:35:47.510 --> 00:35:49.789
and so it's getting the right messengers in there.

00:35:50.030 --> 00:35:52.269
We've always talked about needing like the Joe

00:35:52.269 --> 00:35:56.969
Rogan of the left. Someone that can really authentically

00:35:56.969 --> 00:35:59.289
and get in there without it being necessarily

00:35:59.289 --> 00:36:02.489
political. And I also again, I don't have all

00:36:02.489 --> 00:36:05.349
the answers. I am very biased with the friends

00:36:05.349 --> 00:36:08.070
that I have. We're all extremely informed and

00:36:08.070 --> 00:36:12.159
very active. And I'm grateful for that. However,

00:36:12.300 --> 00:36:16.099
it is really hard to pierce through that to get

00:36:16.099 --> 00:36:18.039
to other young folks. I think just having the

00:36:18.039 --> 00:36:20.679
right messengers, having the right message, putting

00:36:20.679 --> 00:36:23.480
a little bit of hope in there. And I'm an extreme

00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:25.619
cynic. I'm sure other people my generation are

00:36:25.619 --> 00:36:28.880
just in the political system that we're in. There's

00:36:28.880 --> 00:36:31.539
no right answer. But I think just trying to move

00:36:31.539 --> 00:36:34.360
towards a little bit of trust building will go

00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:38.619
a long way with people my age. I think that's

00:36:38.619 --> 00:36:40.440
for somebody who says that they don't have all

00:36:40.440 --> 00:36:45.480
the answers, but but no. Yeah, of course. And

00:36:45.480 --> 00:36:49.719
like if I was if I was asking you for like a

00:36:49.719 --> 00:36:52.940
one size fits all kind of thing, like clearly,

00:36:52.940 --> 00:36:55.199
you know, we've said on this podcast multiple

00:36:55.199 --> 00:36:58.940
times politics is fluid. It's it's you're never

00:36:58.940 --> 00:37:01.500
going to be able to attack things the same way

00:37:01.500 --> 00:37:04.539
twice. It might work twice, but that doesn't

00:37:04.539 --> 00:37:08.530
mean you should do it that way. And with 18 to

00:37:08.530 --> 00:37:11.210
25 year olds with 25 to 40 year olds, it's a

00:37:11.210 --> 00:37:14.590
different beast every few election cycles. So

00:37:14.590 --> 00:37:17.869
I think that you're right in that, like, absolutely,

00:37:18.150 --> 00:37:21.469
there has to be a gear shift, like figure out,

00:37:21.510 --> 00:37:23.110
okay, you don't know how to talk to these people,

00:37:23.389 --> 00:37:25.570
figure out how to talk to them, because whatever

00:37:25.570 --> 00:37:28.369
you're doing right now is not working. And the

00:37:28.369 --> 00:37:30.829
messenger is important. Absolutely. Which is

00:37:30.829 --> 00:37:34.210
why we were very disappointed when Alexandria

00:37:34.210 --> 00:37:37.929
Ocasio -Cortez was kind of snubbed for her position

00:37:37.929 --> 00:37:41.510
of the Oversight Committee. So what about that?

00:37:41.929 --> 00:37:45.769
Oh, I was furious. I mean, yeah, Pelosi from

00:37:45.769 --> 00:37:49.489
her hospital bed in, what, Germany, I think?

00:37:50.909 --> 00:37:53.909
Pull on the strings. Let's take it away from

00:37:53.909 --> 00:37:57.190
perhaps the most visible, most popular, really,

00:37:57.349 --> 00:38:01.710
I'd argue, Democrat in Congress, just to install

00:38:02.039 --> 00:38:08.380
was he like late 70s early 80s 74 74 year old

00:38:08.380 --> 00:38:12.739
guy with literal throat cancer like you had the

00:38:12.739 --> 00:38:18.800
opportunity to build a bridge and you just detonated

00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:23.219
it I think especially because AOC I think Kerr

00:38:23.219 --> 00:38:25.840
and Jeff Jackson are both like not I've never

00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:27.940
heard anyone put the two of them together before,

00:38:28.219 --> 00:38:30.639
but they're both really good at, like, communicating

00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:33.079
with people outwardly and, like, directly. And

00:38:33.079 --> 00:38:35.760
I think it's hard to replicate for politicians

00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.519
if it's not authentic, but those are people who

00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:41.159
can really connect with normal people. The number

00:38:41.159 --> 00:38:42.900
of people that I've talked to and they're like,

00:38:43.019 --> 00:38:44.960
oh yeah, Jeff Jackson. I like his videos. I'm

00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:47.320
like, how do you know who he is? Like, you're

00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:50.219
normal. You're not one of us on this Zoom right

00:38:50.219 --> 00:38:55.280
now. Because he is the normal guy. Get that communication

00:38:55.280 --> 00:38:58.420
out there and something I thought about was just

00:38:58.420 --> 00:38:59.940
talking about with you talking about the age

00:38:59.940 --> 00:39:02.599
range of 18 to 25 and how it changes so much.

00:39:02.599 --> 00:39:05.219
I think it's also I saw a graphic recently about

00:39:05.219 --> 00:39:07.719
how different the generation is for those of

00:39:07.719 --> 00:39:09.980
us who kind of, I think it was like, started

00:39:09.980 --> 00:39:14.000
college pre coven versus post coven. And those

00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:16.000
of us who graduated high school pre and post

00:39:16.000 --> 00:39:19.360
covid because we those have I graduated high

00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:21.539
school the year before it started and so I kind

00:39:21.539 --> 00:39:23.519
of got a little bit of a year of like normal

00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:26.559
in the real world and a lot of people didn't

00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:29.260
and it kind of changed who people see as like

00:39:29.260 --> 00:39:32.159
the resistance. What's the alternative to this

00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:34.440
thing? We don't like which is kind of being stuck

00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:37.119
at home and it was a theory that the person who

00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:39.360
made this graphic had that it caused that why

00:39:39.360 --> 00:39:41.079
we're seeing some of the right word shift with

00:39:41.079 --> 00:39:43.500
young folks. I have no idea if it's true, but.

00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:45.960
I could gather that that would be a part of it.

00:39:46.840 --> 00:39:48.719
Yeah, I would think that, I mean, I'm sure that

00:39:48.719 --> 00:39:53.900
that is one of many facets of the redirect of

00:39:53.900 --> 00:39:57.079
like, young people always tend to vote Democratic

00:39:57.079 --> 00:40:01.539
or liberal or leftist. And it's like to a pretty

00:40:01.539 --> 00:40:04.559
broad extent that is still true, but there was

00:40:04.559 --> 00:40:07.559
enough of a shift that people are sweating, you

00:40:07.559 --> 00:40:11.099
know? And the tickle ban, like I was personally

00:40:11.099 --> 00:40:14.670
very distraught over it. for the, like, 12 hours

00:40:14.670 --> 00:40:17.449
that I did not get to use TikTok. And when you're

00:40:17.449 --> 00:40:19.510
between jobs, you spend a lot of time on TikTok.

00:40:20.630 --> 00:40:22.530
But then when it comes back and there's the whole

00:40:22.530 --> 00:40:25.010
very obvious propaganda thing on it, I'm like,

00:40:25.010 --> 00:40:27.530
oh, maybe this is why they tried to ban it, saying,

00:40:27.590 --> 00:40:29.949
like, thank you, President Trump. I'm like, shit.

00:40:30.110 --> 00:40:32.929
That's going to work on people. They're not going

00:40:32.929 --> 00:40:35.590
to see this is the very obvious propaganda play

00:40:35.590 --> 00:40:38.050
that it is to help them politically. And so I

00:40:38.050 --> 00:40:39.690
think there's a lot of work that needs to be

00:40:39.690 --> 00:40:42.329
done whether or not it's doable by 2028. Who

00:40:42.329 --> 00:40:44.170
knows? But again, it's just that trust. They

00:40:44.170 --> 00:40:46.050
see, oh, there's this thing he did. That's good.

00:40:46.190 --> 00:40:48.010
They don't trust us to do the same. Why didn't

00:40:48.010 --> 00:40:50.449
we protect it? It's just all of those things

00:40:50.449 --> 00:40:52.690
like that where the Republicans are able to get

00:40:52.690 --> 00:40:56.429
the credit and just sideline them over it. I

00:40:56.429 --> 00:40:59.159
think. I think especially congressional Dems

00:40:59.159 --> 00:41:02.019
are really good at shooting themselves in the

00:41:02.019 --> 00:41:03.760
foot in that respect because like the whole like

00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:06.699
TikTok ban thing, it was originally an idea under

00:41:06.699 --> 00:41:10.360
Trump during his first term. And then we managed

00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:13.599
to take it and turn it into our own thing and

00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:17.980
then catch all the shit for it and then hand

00:41:17.980 --> 00:41:21.579
Republicans a victory. Like what kind of backward

00:41:21.579 --> 00:41:26.789
ass shit is that? Like we snatched defeat from

00:41:26.789 --> 00:41:29.650
the jaws of victory there. I mean, I saw Jeff

00:41:29.650 --> 00:41:32.150
Jackson get more blame for it in his TikTok comments

00:41:32.150 --> 00:41:35.489
than Republicans. If you would look for a while,

00:41:35.610 --> 00:41:37.050
they're like, what app are you recording this

00:41:37.050 --> 00:41:41.090
on, Jeff? That was the sentiment of people there.

00:41:41.329 --> 00:41:44.710
They just don't get it. I wish that you could

00:41:44.710 --> 00:41:47.110
have joined us for episode five. And yes, this

00:41:47.110 --> 00:41:50.369
is a plug for you to go and listen to episode

00:41:50.369 --> 00:41:53.309
five right now. It's all about the TikTok ban.

00:41:53.809 --> 00:41:55.710
We recorded it when that happened, unfortunately

00:41:55.710 --> 00:41:58.050
weren't able to release it until much later.

00:41:58.170 --> 00:41:59.969
But you should go listen to that because we actually

00:41:59.969 --> 00:42:02.829
go into a lot more depth about it. And echoing

00:42:02.829 --> 00:42:06.190
some of the sentiments that Megan is also talking

00:42:06.190 --> 00:42:09.190
about here just like, okay, yeah, Jeff Jackson

00:42:09.190 --> 00:42:13.769
did vote for it. He's one guy. You know? he just

00:42:13.769 --> 00:42:15.969
happens to have 2 million followers on TikTok.

00:42:16.530 --> 00:42:20.010
Like, there's no correlation to any of this based

00:42:20.010 --> 00:42:22.250
on just, oh, he has more power because he has

00:42:22.250 --> 00:42:25.349
more followers. Like, sure, he has more reach,

00:42:25.690 --> 00:42:29.510
but his vote counts just as much as the lone

00:42:29.510 --> 00:42:33.170
congressman from Wyoming. So, but rolling off

00:42:33.170 --> 00:42:35.530
of the back of that, we talk a lot about younger

00:42:35.530 --> 00:42:38.739
folks, especially um, the need for younger folks

00:42:38.739 --> 00:42:41.579
to get involved in politics, especially if there's

00:42:41.579 --> 00:42:44.500
something that bothers them. And while we know

00:42:44.500 --> 00:42:48.519
now that you are a successful political campaigner

00:42:48.519 --> 00:42:52.920
and strategist, what was Megan doing when you

00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:55.639
were 16 years old? Why, why did you like, how

00:42:55.639 --> 00:42:58.099
did you go from there? High school kid that probably

00:42:58.099 --> 00:42:59.920
didn't know too much about politics. Maybe you

00:42:59.920 --> 00:43:04.119
did, but I know most don't. So I'm assuming to

00:43:04.119 --> 00:43:07.860
now, like what? What got you into this and why

00:43:07.860 --> 00:43:11.000
did you want to work as a campaign manager? Why

00:43:11.000 --> 00:43:13.960
deal with all that stress? Like who hurt you?

00:43:14.179 --> 00:43:19.260
What is wrong with you? No, I ask myself that

00:43:19.260 --> 00:43:25.480
all the time. But so I I was 11 when Obama was

00:43:25.480 --> 00:43:27.960
reelected. Not to make y 'all feel old again.

00:43:28.139 --> 00:43:30.940
But like I wasn't really paying attention to

00:43:30.940 --> 00:43:34.159
that presidential election. Again, I was in the

00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:37.960
sixth grade. Um, but when 2016 happens, that

00:43:37.960 --> 00:43:40.159
was the 1st election that I had actually followed

00:43:40.159 --> 00:43:42.000
and I had paid attention to some of the people

00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:44.440
who were running and watch the debates and I

00:43:44.440 --> 00:43:47.579
watched the DNC convention and paid attention

00:43:47.579 --> 00:43:50.679
and then Trump won and I was like, what? He's

00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:52.280
insane. The things that he was saying, I was

00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:53.639
like, I don't understand how people could vote

00:43:53.639 --> 00:43:57.559
for him. Again, naive little 15 year old in 2016

00:43:57.559 --> 00:44:03.940
and. I really wanted to get involved in politics

00:44:03.940 --> 00:44:05.880
somehow, get involved. I thought I wanted to

00:44:05.880 --> 00:44:08.260
be an attorney. If you can't tell, I love to

00:44:08.260 --> 00:44:12.380
argue. And I was like, how do I get involved

00:44:12.380 --> 00:44:14.960
in all of this? And then when the 2018 midterms

00:44:14.960 --> 00:44:16.599
happened, I still didn't know how to get involved.

00:44:16.639 --> 00:44:18.809
I was in a really red county. where I grew up.

00:44:19.030 --> 00:44:21.010
There was not any, like, kind of youth organizing

00:44:21.010 --> 00:44:23.510
for people who were not super Republican around.

00:44:23.829 --> 00:44:26.550
But I followed that. And it's funny, I actually

00:44:26.550 --> 00:44:28.809
had followed that at a works campaign when he

00:44:28.809 --> 00:44:34.190
ran for Senate in 2018. And then I remember it

00:44:34.190 --> 00:44:36.769
was spring in my senior year in high school,

00:44:37.050 --> 00:44:38.889
he was running for president and he was going

00:44:38.889 --> 00:44:42.360
to be on UNC's campus. for a rally and I tried

00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:43.619
to go to the rally I couldn't get in because

00:44:43.619 --> 00:44:45.179
I wasn't a student but I went to another one

00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:47.360
he had in Greensboro that day. It was my first

00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:48.860
time like ever meeting a political candidate

00:44:48.860 --> 00:44:51.800
but I had remembered that UNC Young Dems had

00:44:51.800 --> 00:44:53.800
hosted that same thing and so then when I got

00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:56.300
to college I was like yeah I'll join why not

00:44:56.300 --> 00:44:59.119
see if I like it. Within a month of being there

00:44:59.119 --> 00:45:03.179
we were out canvassing in extremely rural Robeson

00:45:03.179 --> 00:45:07.480
County where Dan McCready was running in the

00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:09.420
redo election for the main congressional district,

00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:11.579
which was redone due to GOP ballot fraud. We're

00:45:11.579 --> 00:45:13.500
just out there having conversations with people.

00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:15.940
And in hindsight, the three, the three girls

00:45:15.940 --> 00:45:17.760
that I was with, and I probably should not have

00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:20.239
gone down like a dirt road through a cornfield

00:45:20.239 --> 00:45:22.280
to get to somebody's house at our first time

00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:25.519
ever canvassing and then walked into this person's

00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:27.539
house when they invited us in to talk to them.

00:45:27.699 --> 00:45:29.780
It's like the exact opposite of everything I

00:45:29.780 --> 00:45:31.519
tell my gamers to do. I'm like, never go into

00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:33.139
someone's house. Like, oh, I went in the first

00:45:33.139 --> 00:45:35.300
day, but we were just like talking to this older

00:45:35.300 --> 00:45:37.800
gentleman. He was completely immobile. He didn't

00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:39.400
know how he could get to vote. And we were just

00:45:39.400 --> 00:45:41.300
showing him, here's how you can get a mail -in

00:45:41.300 --> 00:45:43.360
ballot. And just having those conversations,

00:45:43.699 --> 00:45:45.699
just really meeting voters where they are. And

00:45:45.699 --> 00:45:48.360
I was like, this felt really important, what

00:45:48.360 --> 00:45:50.889
I did today. And I kind of kept that with me

00:45:50.889 --> 00:45:53.090
and I stayed with UNC Young Dems for a long time,

00:45:53.130 --> 00:45:56.429
stayed with the org and we did a lot of virtual

00:45:56.429 --> 00:46:00.230
organizing and phone banks in 2020 for council

00:46:00.230 --> 00:46:01.909
of state candidates. We did a little bit for

00:46:01.909 --> 00:46:05.630
Biden. And then in 2022, I was president of that

00:46:05.630 --> 00:46:08.710
org and just stayed doing. All of the things

00:46:08.710 --> 00:46:11.170
and kind of remembered the actual grassroots

00:46:11.170 --> 00:46:13.889
organizing, talking to voters, everything that

00:46:13.889 --> 00:46:17.030
we have to do has to be to reach voters. And

00:46:17.030 --> 00:46:19.550
really, really hammered it on that. We ran a

00:46:19.550 --> 00:46:21.670
stating location near campus to try and reach

00:46:21.670 --> 00:46:23.889
students to get them out to vote. And I worked

00:46:23.889 --> 00:46:25.889
really closely with county to county while I

00:46:25.889 --> 00:46:27.750
was in college. I know CJ, you worked with them

00:46:27.750 --> 00:46:30.650
as well last year. I'm on the campaign and work

00:46:30.650 --> 00:46:32.489
with them on Dante's campaign. They are absolute

00:46:32.489 --> 00:46:35.690
angels. That really got me interested in the

00:46:35.690 --> 00:46:37.880
state legislature and knowing like. These are

00:46:37.880 --> 00:46:40.719
the races that are the most important, because

00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:43.699
with that one seat that we were able to flip,

00:46:44.059 --> 00:46:45.820
Governor Stein had this veto. And that's really

00:46:45.820 --> 00:46:48.239
important. And so I kind of just stuck with state

00:46:48.239 --> 00:46:51.059
legislatures ever since there. And there's the

00:46:51.059 --> 00:46:52.980
whole timeline for you. I don't remember if there

00:46:52.980 --> 00:46:54.800
was an actual question in there, but that might

00:46:54.800 --> 00:46:58.079
have been an answer to it. That was an answer.

00:46:58.400 --> 00:47:02.099
That was the answer, I think, just because it's

00:47:02.099 --> 00:47:04.219
also interesting because we can definitely draw

00:47:04.219 --> 00:47:09.070
a I guess a through line or rather a connection

00:47:09.070 --> 00:47:11.989
between all three of us for for I think all three

00:47:11.989 --> 00:47:14.389
of us and for a lot of people in not just North

00:47:14.389 --> 00:47:17.929
Carolina but all across America 2016 activated

00:47:17.929 --> 00:47:21.309
people because I think just like both of you

00:47:21.309 --> 00:47:24.409
and like you just said Megan when I saw the results

00:47:24.409 --> 00:47:28.559
come in I'm like what huh no that That makes

00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:30.340
absolutely no sense. This guy was polling at

00:47:30.340 --> 00:47:33.539
2 % last year. What happened? And I didn't even

00:47:33.539 --> 00:47:36.519
know how the electoral college worked. I don't

00:47:36.519 --> 00:47:39.820
think I do. I don't think I do now. I don't think

00:47:39.820 --> 00:47:42.119
anyone really does, to be honest with you. The

00:47:42.119 --> 00:47:46.139
word works is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

00:47:46.739 --> 00:47:50.690
Yes. But you know, you do get activated and you

00:47:50.690 --> 00:47:54.429
do start like, it's almost like a slow magnetic

00:47:54.429 --> 00:47:57.210
pull. You just have to know more and more and

00:47:57.210 --> 00:47:59.809
more until you find yourself as the president

00:47:59.809 --> 00:48:03.570
of the UNC Young Dems. You're like, oh, I guess

00:48:03.570 --> 00:48:07.449
I guess I'm in this now. Was that how it felt?

00:48:07.510 --> 00:48:08.889
Did you ever have a moment where you're just

00:48:08.889 --> 00:48:13.159
like, oh, no, I am like an activist. No, I mean,

00:48:13.340 --> 00:48:16.400
yeah, I mean, I think I did it kind of gradually

00:48:16.400 --> 00:48:19.059
and getting more involved in them. I would say

00:48:19.059 --> 00:48:22.780
there was a moment in 2022 where Sherry Beasley

00:48:22.780 --> 00:48:24.860
was coming to campus with Senator John Ossoff.

00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:26.000
And I was like, this is going to be the best

00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:28.139
day of my life. Like I get to meet both of them.

00:48:28.260 --> 00:48:29.500
It's going to be a great day. I was supposed

00:48:29.500 --> 00:48:32.079
to introduce John and I was so hype about that.

00:48:32.079 --> 00:48:33.739
I ended up having to introduce my dear friend

00:48:33.739 --> 00:48:36.000
Jonah Garson instead who got to introduce John.

00:48:36.380 --> 00:48:38.559
But like that day just like with these those

00:48:38.559 --> 00:48:41.119
politicians and just being like, this is a lot

00:48:41.119 --> 00:48:42.739
of people like this could be the coolest thing

00:48:42.739 --> 00:48:44.519
in their life. I thought it would be really cool.

00:48:44.699 --> 00:48:46.690
But that whole day I've just been like working

00:48:46.690 --> 00:48:49.070
with all of the staffers to help get the event

00:48:49.070 --> 00:48:51.070
ready and all of that. I was like, huh, this

00:48:51.070 --> 00:48:53.949
is really what it is. Just a bunch of people

00:48:53.949 --> 00:48:56.849
doing some crazy work, some things that you would

00:48:56.849 --> 00:48:59.090
never expect the political staffers that you

00:48:59.090 --> 00:49:02.230
see to be doing to get set up for events and

00:49:02.230 --> 00:49:04.210
work through all of this. It was really cool

00:49:04.210 --> 00:49:07.170
being on that stage and talk about some of the

00:49:07.170 --> 00:49:10.329
work we were doing and seeing people in the audience

00:49:10.329 --> 00:49:12.929
who were DNC members and elected officials nodding

00:49:12.929 --> 00:49:14.610
along, like, yeah, good job. And it's like, oh,

00:49:14.670 --> 00:49:17.840
yeah. You're doing good work. This is good. I

00:49:17.840 --> 00:49:24.059
am good. You like me. You really like me. I do

00:49:24.059 --> 00:49:27.440
think for a lot of the level staffers, whether,

00:49:27.559 --> 00:49:29.000
you know, they're like actually like working

00:49:29.000 --> 00:49:31.920
like an office or if they're out on the campaign

00:49:31.920 --> 00:49:33.880
trail or anything like that, there is definitely

00:49:33.880 --> 00:49:36.900
a moment or two where they kind of like stopped

00:49:36.900 --> 00:49:38.880
and like look around. They're like, oh my God,

00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:41.860
this is incredible. Or like, oh my God, how the

00:49:41.860 --> 00:49:44.719
hell did I end up here? Like. I got to meet Bill

00:49:44.719 --> 00:49:47.860
Clinton standing behind his bus. We were into

00:49:47.860 --> 00:49:50.599
this rally, Dante was introducing him, and I,

00:49:50.599 --> 00:49:52.420
at the end, I kind of like, I saw a staffer that

00:49:52.420 --> 00:49:54.739
I knew who was on the Harris Wells campaign.

00:49:54.860 --> 00:49:56.519
I was like, hey, I had a signal to him, can I

00:49:56.519 --> 00:49:58.199
get across that barricade? He's like, yeah, come

00:49:58.199 --> 00:50:00.619
around. I had to go around, then I got to take

00:50:00.619 --> 00:50:03.420
a photo with Bill. It was, it was pretty cool.

00:50:04.420 --> 00:50:06.079
I was like, this is a really cool moment, but

00:50:06.079 --> 00:50:08.880
also like these politicians are just people too.

00:50:09.000 --> 00:50:11.139
It's just a bunch of people who are trying to

00:50:11.139 --> 00:50:14.349
do the work and everything's so much less glamorous

00:50:14.349 --> 00:50:17.309
than people think it is but it is fun sometimes

00:50:17.309 --> 00:50:19.530
and you get to and you get to hang out behind

00:50:19.530 --> 00:50:22.809
the bus with Bill Clinton. Like that was a fun

00:50:22.809 --> 00:50:26.510
way to spend my Sunday. Yeah I um you know actually

00:50:26.510 --> 00:50:29.449
Megan you had a fundraiser at Dante last year.

00:50:29.739 --> 00:50:32.139
that I got to go to and, you know, it was like

00:50:32.139 --> 00:50:34.760
all these people there was like, I think actually

00:50:34.760 --> 00:50:37.199
it was all of the, it was Anderson Clayton, all

00:50:37.199 --> 00:50:40.780
the vice chairs for the state party. Jim Hunt

00:50:40.780 --> 00:50:43.320
was there. I think Rachel was there as well,

00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:45.840
if I remember correctly. Like just all these

00:50:45.840 --> 00:50:50.980
incredible people that hold such status in North

00:50:50.980 --> 00:50:53.280
Carolina politics, but also North Carolina political

00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:56.920
history by, you know, extent. And I remember

00:50:56.920 --> 00:50:59.980
driving home that night, like, thinking, oh my

00:50:59.980 --> 00:51:02.960
god, like, you know, yeah, I know that wasn't

00:51:02.960 --> 00:51:04.679
my fundraiser, that wasn't my campaign, but oh

00:51:04.679 --> 00:51:08.420
my god, I get to be in this room with these incredible

00:51:08.420 --> 00:51:12.860
people. I was like, holy shit. I mean, I was

00:51:12.860 --> 00:51:14.739
also fortunate enough to be able to meet Bill

00:51:14.739 --> 00:51:18.360
Clinton. I'm like, that is amazing. I talked

00:51:18.360 --> 00:51:20.960
to him about how he was part of the reason I

00:51:20.960 --> 00:51:22.500
ended up playing saxophone all throughout middle

00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:24.280
school and high school was because I saw him

00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:26.579
when I was like, reel it, reel it. that really

00:51:26.579 --> 00:51:28.480
little he just kind of stopped when i was telling

00:51:28.480 --> 00:51:30.980
him that he's like wait what like i shocked him

00:51:30.980 --> 00:51:33.119
into silence for like three seconds like that's

00:51:33.119 --> 00:51:34.940
like the forward leader of the free world right

00:51:34.940 --> 00:51:37.539
there i stopped him with jackson like holy shit

00:51:37.539 --> 00:51:40.760
but no like this this work that we get to do

00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:44.679
is incredible it is i i don't say that to like

00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:46.400
you know pat ourselves on the back or whatever

00:51:46.400 --> 00:51:49.559
no it's incredibly taxing yeah that's for sure

00:51:49.559 --> 00:51:56.190
it is exhausting it is tiring it's you know Like,

00:51:56.550 --> 00:51:58.730
constant, like, emotional, mental drainage and

00:51:58.730 --> 00:52:01.809
damage is truly, um, it's a lot of disappointment.

00:52:02.070 --> 00:52:04.369
It's a lot of disappointment. Most races that

00:52:04.369 --> 00:52:08.449
we run, we will not. And I will say my win streak

00:52:08.449 --> 00:52:11.909
did not start until 2023. Um, those are the races

00:52:11.909 --> 00:52:17.070
I managed, but like, in 2022, she was a big race

00:52:17.070 --> 00:52:19.800
that we had been working for on campus. There

00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:21.980
were a lot of some other state legislature races

00:52:21.980 --> 00:52:23.920
across the state that we've been following that

00:52:23.920 --> 00:52:27.699
we lost Linda Cooper says the previous Deb before

00:52:27.699 --> 00:52:32.219
the Republican that don't pay unseated. I'm Brian

00:52:32.219 --> 00:52:34.960
focus and seeing a lot of these really good leaders

00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:39.320
get out. It's really crushing and it's hard to

00:52:39.320 --> 00:52:43.119
see that. But I think. Definitely with you at

00:52:43.119 --> 00:52:46.800
the helm, I think is more what's impressive because

00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:50.000
I, especially at 23 years old, most people can't

00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:53.420
say that they've done that. So, but, you know,

00:52:53.599 --> 00:52:58.000
Barry, you definitely are exhibiting some humility

00:52:58.000 --> 00:53:01.400
right now. So we appreciate that too. But I will

00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:04.719
say like, Even though I had really small roles

00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:08.159
on any of those previous campaigns, but it's

00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:11.219
like having having a couple of losses before

00:53:11.219 --> 00:53:14.059
you get to the wins, I think can be really helpful

00:53:14.059 --> 00:53:17.239
because if you just come into this job and all

00:53:17.239 --> 00:53:19.900
you ever do is win, I'm like. What's wrong with

00:53:19.900 --> 00:53:23.440
you? Are you paying someone off? Like what, what

00:53:23.440 --> 00:53:26.159
kind of like campaign God did you like make a

00:53:26.159 --> 00:53:27.960
deal with to keep doing this? But I think kind

00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:30.360
of having those be the foundation and saying,

00:53:30.380 --> 00:53:32.559
Oh my God, we put all this work in didn't win,

00:53:33.000 --> 00:53:35.860
but it was still really important work and it

00:53:35.860 --> 00:53:38.820
gave a really good opportunity to build skills

00:53:38.820 --> 00:53:41.300
with that. But what's the best way to convince

00:53:41.300 --> 00:53:43.840
voters? What's the best way to build a team that

00:53:43.840 --> 00:53:45.940
can get out and talk to those voters was still

00:53:45.940 --> 00:53:49.849
really valuable. And also seeing. the consequences

00:53:49.849 --> 00:53:52.829
of what happens when you do lose to kind of have

00:53:52.829 --> 00:53:56.349
that to motivate me to do the best that I possibly

00:53:56.349 --> 00:53:58.650
can for the candidates that I've worked for.

00:53:58.769 --> 00:54:02.110
And even if that means working 23 hour days once

00:54:02.110 --> 00:54:05.690
in a while, there was literal blood, sweat and

00:54:05.690 --> 00:54:10.769
tears all the time. Emphasis on the sweat, but

00:54:10.769 --> 00:54:12.489
there was a little bit of the other two too.

00:54:13.010 --> 00:54:16.889
So just got to do it all. I literally have a

00:54:16.889 --> 00:54:19.409
scar from slicing my arm open with a cardboard

00:54:19.409 --> 00:54:23.190
sign. The night before that fundraiser that you

00:54:23.190 --> 00:54:25.829
mentioned, CJ, I was in the ER because I tried

00:54:25.829 --> 00:54:28.150
to fix my printer with a kitchen knife. Don't

00:54:28.150 --> 00:54:30.489
fix appliances with kitchen knives, guys. And

00:54:30.489 --> 00:54:32.389
I tried to fix my printer because it broke and

00:54:32.389 --> 00:54:34.710
I needed to print out the name tags for the fundraiser.

00:54:35.989 --> 00:54:37.510
Just slice my thumb a little bit. It's okay.

00:54:37.769 --> 00:54:40.449
But again, that's just how it works. You do all

00:54:40.449 --> 00:54:44.030
the things like that. Yeah, exactly. Like you

00:54:44.030 --> 00:54:46.849
said at the beginning of this, these campaigns

00:54:46.849 --> 00:54:50.530
that we ran are very, very small. For most of

00:54:50.530 --> 00:54:54.070
us, it was like a staff of one. It was us, right?

00:54:54.630 --> 00:54:59.309
Like social media, field, fundraising, everything

00:54:59.309 --> 00:55:03.949
was just us. Talking your candidate down from

00:55:03.949 --> 00:55:08.869
the ledge. Yeah. But I think there is this great

00:55:08.869 --> 00:55:11.909
perception. I'm someone who loves political dramas

00:55:11.909 --> 00:55:15.070
on TV, and we see all this stuff. It is not glamorous.

00:55:15.230 --> 00:55:17.170
It is not sexy. It is not how these people put

00:55:17.170 --> 00:55:19.710
in their... I had someone come up to me and they're

00:55:19.710 --> 00:55:22.389
like, oh, I would love to read your job description.

00:55:22.769 --> 00:55:25.110
Because I was wearing this really nice dress.

00:55:25.130 --> 00:55:27.570
I had sneakers on with it, too. And I was breaking

00:55:27.570 --> 00:55:30.250
down seven -foot tables that were bigger than

00:55:30.250 --> 00:55:32.929
me to help put them down at the end of the event.

00:55:33.090 --> 00:55:34.610
And earlier that day, I'd been on the ground

00:55:34.610 --> 00:55:36.809
putting yard signs together. But then at the

00:55:36.809 --> 00:55:38.780
same time, I'm like... On a call of consultants

00:55:38.780 --> 00:55:41.900
the same day, managing million dollar media budgets

00:55:41.900 --> 00:55:45.280
and it's just you do all of the things and it's

00:55:45.280 --> 00:55:48.239
really fun. Really rewarding, but it's tired.

00:55:48.699 --> 00:55:51.039
It's tiring at the end of some of those days.

00:55:51.559 --> 00:55:54.599
But again, I just know, like, the impact we have.

00:55:54.820 --> 00:55:56.800
And the impact you all had to on the race is

00:55:56.800 --> 00:55:58.900
just something you can't replicate. And it's

00:55:58.900 --> 00:56:01.719
really, really important to always keep that

00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:04.099
in mind. You know, I'm sure there's other campaigns

00:56:04.099 --> 00:56:05.440
that aren't state legislature that are a little

00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:08.960
sexier. that we're really doing really hard,

00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:12.440
impactful work on there. Absolutely. I mean,

00:56:12.619 --> 00:56:17.840
it starts at the bottom, right? People like to

00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:20.320
talk about the influence of the top of the ticket

00:56:20.320 --> 00:56:24.159
down. I think that if given the right motivation,

00:56:24.480 --> 00:56:27.079
you can have just as much power coming from the

00:56:27.079 --> 00:56:29.300
bottom of the ticket up. You might get people

00:56:29.300 --> 00:56:31.760
out to vote for their local school board member

00:56:31.760 --> 00:56:35.460
that they've met in person. would not have gone

00:56:35.460 --> 00:56:37.880
out to vote for either Donald Trump or Kamala

00:56:37.880 --> 00:56:40.760
Harris. Yeah, and I mean, in Dante's district,

00:56:40.860 --> 00:56:44.320
so there were two districts in 2024 that were

00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:47.460
won by Trump that Dems won, and that was Lindsay

00:56:47.460 --> 00:56:49.739
Prather out in Buncombe and that was Dante and

00:56:49.739 --> 00:56:52.039
Wilson. And I think a lot of that, I keep saying

00:56:52.039 --> 00:56:54.139
this, about having the right messenger, but I

00:56:54.139 --> 00:56:56.699
think a lot of that came to people trusted Dante.

00:56:57.079 --> 00:56:59.519
He was a really good recruit for that district.

00:56:59.860 --> 00:57:03.099
He was local. He looked, he sounded like them.

00:57:03.239 --> 00:57:05.320
And he was able to just share this message in

00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:08.239
a really authentic way. This is what this community

00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:10.880
needs. This is what this community doesn't need

00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:13.599
and people trust them. And I think that's just

00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:16.139
a big thing for some of those on why that message

00:57:16.139 --> 00:57:18.500
was able to able to pierce through, but Kamala's

00:57:18.500 --> 00:57:20.920
wasn't and something I think folks should keep

00:57:20.920 --> 00:57:23.340
in mind and be really intentional about candidate

00:57:23.340 --> 00:57:25.760
recruitment. Well, it definitely helps that he

00:57:25.760 --> 00:57:28.519
had a good manager with him, but it also helps

00:57:28.519 --> 00:57:31.019
that the guy that he was running against was

00:57:31.019 --> 00:57:35.869
an actual goblin. Possibly he was definitely

00:57:35.869 --> 00:57:38.369
a character. I will say both Dante and his opponent

00:57:38.369 --> 00:57:42.389
made my job easy at times. So I'll work with.

00:57:42.630 --> 00:57:44.659
Yeah. One thing I wanted to kind of talk about

00:57:44.659 --> 00:57:47.139
really briefly or get your thoughts on, because

00:57:47.139 --> 00:57:48.800
I know we're kind of approaching the end here,

00:57:49.239 --> 00:57:50.699
but a few minutes ago you were talking about

00:57:50.699 --> 00:57:53.800
like building stuff and whatnot. One thing my

00:57:53.800 --> 00:57:55.800
personal philosophy when it comes to like organizing

00:57:55.800 --> 00:57:58.760
and managing campaigns and whatnot, and I haven't

00:57:58.760 --> 00:58:00.179
always been able to do this, but one thing that

00:58:00.179 --> 00:58:04.860
I like to at least try to do is try and leave

00:58:04.860 --> 00:58:08.960
some sort of foundation, some sort of base of

00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:11.360
scaffolding so to say for the next campaign.

00:58:11.610 --> 00:58:14.289
to come build on whether or not whether it's,

00:58:14.289 --> 00:58:16.550
you know, someone running for election or a new

00:58:16.550 --> 00:58:20.070
candidate or whatnot. For you, Megan and Adrienne,

00:58:20.429 --> 00:58:23.690
what do you see as like the best way of kind

00:58:23.690 --> 00:58:25.710
of going about building that foundation, building

00:58:25.710 --> 00:58:28.349
that scaffolding? I would say the big thing is

00:58:28.349 --> 00:58:31.010
like making sure that the campaign is not the

00:58:31.010 --> 00:58:33.309
only thing that's building and leaving that behind.

00:58:34.070 --> 00:58:36.869
Like your local county parties, the local organizations

00:58:36.869 --> 00:58:39.610
that are on the ground are going to outlast any

00:58:39.610 --> 00:58:41.960
candidate and making sure that It's not just

00:58:41.960 --> 00:58:44.940
one campaign leaving it that they know and have

00:58:44.940 --> 00:58:49.400
the resources on how to act on it. I think, especially

00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:52.019
in Dante's district, this was one that had never

00:58:52.019 --> 00:58:54.840
really seen proper investment until this year.

00:58:55.019 --> 00:58:57.260
There was a strong coordinated campaign there.

00:58:57.380 --> 00:59:02.079
We spent like 1 .2 million dollars on paid communications.

00:59:02.519 --> 00:59:06.199
That never happened before. And just also showing

00:59:06.199 --> 00:59:09.539
that this is what it takes. to when we talk about

00:59:09.539 --> 00:59:12.320
winning in rural areas, we talk about winning

00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:14.920
outside of our cities. This is the amount of

00:59:14.920 --> 00:59:17.719
resources that you need in order to do that.

00:59:17.880 --> 00:59:19.679
And kind of showing folks it's a little bit different

00:59:19.679 --> 00:59:22.920
than what we're used to. You have to show up

00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:27.199
and do very specific work. It's canvassing, it's

00:59:27.199 --> 00:59:29.340
phone banking, it's all of these things to reach

00:59:29.340 --> 00:59:31.139
voters. And just kind of showing that this is

00:59:31.139 --> 00:59:34.019
what needs to be done. This is what is possible

00:59:34.019 --> 00:59:38.130
with doing it. Also, this is a subtle plug. is

00:59:38.130 --> 00:59:40.849
that people need to have staff on the ground.

00:59:41.349 --> 00:59:43.869
The reason Nante was able to do that is because

00:59:43.869 --> 00:59:47.010
I was full -time there. There were other campaigns

00:59:47.010 --> 00:59:49.130
that had full -time staff that were able to manage

00:59:49.130 --> 00:59:51.909
this, but so many people don't have that ability.

00:59:52.409 --> 00:59:54.110
You can't raise money like that for a school

00:59:54.110 --> 00:59:56.010
board campaign. You have someone who's volunteer

00:59:56.010 --> 00:59:58.449
who's probably also a teacher, and they just

00:59:58.449 --> 01:00:00.469
don't have time to have that infrastructure in

01:00:00.469 --> 01:00:02.679
there. And so it's really trying to build something

01:00:02.679 --> 01:00:05.400
that folks can come into and work with. So every

01:00:05.400 --> 01:00:08.699
campaign isn't having to rebuild. And so I'm

01:00:08.699 --> 01:00:10.739
hoping that we did leave some of that behind

01:00:10.739 --> 01:00:14.159
a little bit of that experience with county parties.

01:00:14.179 --> 01:00:15.739
I know that's one thing I love that county to

01:00:15.739 --> 01:00:18.179
county does again, love them, going to plug them

01:00:18.179 --> 01:00:21.460
forever is that they help a lot in the off year

01:00:21.460 --> 01:00:23.159
with building those county parties, whatever

01:00:23.159 --> 01:00:25.159
trainings they need, what are some of the resources

01:00:25.159 --> 01:00:28.019
we need them to kind of make sure that winning

01:00:28.019 --> 01:00:30.559
isn't the exception, it's the norm. for some

01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:33.099
of these places. Yeah, absolutely. I have to

01:00:33.099 --> 01:00:35.940
echo that and then just add a little bit to that,

01:00:35.940 --> 01:00:38.639
you know, building up the infrastructure of some

01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:41.139
of these county parties is absolutely crucial

01:00:41.139 --> 01:00:46.260
because a lot of them I ran a race that oversaw

01:00:46.260 --> 01:00:49.539
that contained four counties and within those

01:00:49.539 --> 01:00:51.820
four counties there were basically one and a

01:00:51.820 --> 01:00:55.440
half functioning county parties. If we had had

01:00:55.440 --> 01:00:59.159
four that had regular volunteers that had people

01:00:59.159 --> 01:01:02.739
that I could contact swiftly. There's a lot of

01:01:02.739 --> 01:01:04.380
infrastructure that's lacking in a lot of these

01:01:04.380 --> 01:01:07.199
places. And I think when you build the connections,

01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:10.019
like I'm sure that y 'all had to do as well,

01:01:10.199 --> 01:01:12.860
like the Rolodexes, but also the email chains

01:01:12.860 --> 01:01:15.059
and things like that, that doesn't go away when

01:01:15.059 --> 01:01:18.539
the campaign ends, win or lose. You need to keep

01:01:18.539 --> 01:01:21.099
those connections together, keep that infrastructure

01:01:21.099 --> 01:01:24.500
working. Even if that means building a website

01:01:24.500 --> 01:01:27.739
for an 80 -year -old woman. who is running the

01:01:27.739 --> 01:01:29.719
county, who is the county chair of the county

01:01:29.719 --> 01:01:31.639
party. I'm not the old woman in this scenario.

01:01:32.039 --> 01:01:34.960
I was the one helping the old one. But the point

01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:38.639
of all that is, I think that's very, very good

01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:42.300
advice. And I just think that we need to do a

01:01:42.300 --> 01:01:45.539
better job of that, both as activists and strategists

01:01:45.539 --> 01:01:48.960
and as campaign managers. Everybody needs to.

01:01:50.159 --> 01:01:52.219
Sorry, I'm just going to say, and I also think

01:01:52.219 --> 01:01:55.199
tapping into some folks that may not typically

01:01:55.199 --> 01:01:58.119
be where you look for political guidance and

01:01:58.119 --> 01:02:01.219
political help, especially in counties like Wilson,

01:02:01.300 --> 01:02:04.619
where you have large black populations. Churches

01:02:04.619 --> 01:02:07.900
are so important for political organizing talk

01:02:07.900 --> 01:02:10.460
about getting someone that people trust to talk

01:02:10.460 --> 01:02:13.360
to. I think going around to those buildings and

01:02:13.360 --> 01:02:15.760
keeping those connections going. And also, there's

01:02:15.760 --> 01:02:18.239
a lot of nonprofits and organizations that do

01:02:18.239 --> 01:02:20.000
really important work. And it's just trying to

01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:22.340
bring them all together whatever way make sense

01:02:22.340 --> 01:02:24.900
because they never stop advocating. They never

01:02:24.900 --> 01:02:27.860
stop caring for those communities. uh and it's

01:02:27.860 --> 01:02:29.659
just bringing that a little bit more into the

01:02:29.659 --> 01:02:31.900
political fold as well and that doesn't mean

01:02:31.900 --> 01:02:34.360
like electioneering from the pulpit you gotta

01:02:34.360 --> 01:02:37.260
because they they don't really appreciate that

01:02:37.260 --> 01:02:40.119
um but yeah you got to be smart about it you

01:02:40.119 --> 01:02:42.980
got to look in the places where people aren't

01:02:42.980 --> 01:02:46.079
necessarily expecting it right um but we are

01:02:46.079 --> 01:02:49.699
almost out of time um megan we have got to ask

01:02:49.699 --> 01:02:52.599
you very very important question um please don't

01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:55.059
mess this up what is your go -to cookout order

01:02:55.420 --> 01:02:58.139
Keep in mind you might get cancelled, but so

01:02:58.139 --> 01:03:01.980
I'm actually vegan, which makes this hard to

01:03:01.980 --> 01:03:06.500
answer. So if I were to go out page and fries,

01:03:06.500 --> 01:03:09.000
I get a big order of those. I will say, though,

01:03:09.059 --> 01:03:12.260
on occasion while I was in Wilson, if I was being

01:03:12.260 --> 01:03:17.280
a bad vegan, sometimes the jalapeno cheddar is

01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:20.059
pretty good. But I'm more of a Taco Bell girl

01:03:20.059 --> 01:03:22.719
in general. But occasion fries are always a solid

01:03:22.719 --> 01:03:26.719
choice. That's fair. What? Okay, so if not that,

01:03:27.099 --> 01:03:31.820
what's a staple of North Carolina that you think

01:03:31.820 --> 01:03:35.559
more people should know about maybe? I'm a really

01:03:35.559 --> 01:03:38.719
bad person to ask this question to. I'm a big

01:03:38.719 --> 01:03:41.900
fan of customizing spicy potato tacos at Taco

01:03:41.900 --> 01:03:46.380
Bell to make them vegan and add jalapenos. I

01:03:46.380 --> 01:03:50.030
had that for lunch today and yesterday. And almost

01:03:50.030 --> 01:03:52.730
every single day during Geo TV because it was

01:03:52.730 --> 01:03:54.809
on my way between one of the polling sites in

01:03:54.809 --> 01:03:58.730
the county party office. Well, that's that's

01:03:58.730 --> 01:04:01.710
all well and good. We appreciate you at least

01:04:01.710 --> 01:04:05.789
trying the Cajun fries to cook out. But the most

01:04:05.789 --> 01:04:07.889
important advice I could ever give. Forget all

01:04:07.889 --> 01:04:09.889
the campaign stuff. Just eat some Taco Bell.

01:04:09.980 --> 01:04:13.559
There you go. No, thank you for coming on. It

01:04:13.559 --> 01:04:16.780
was great to talk with you again, and specifically

01:04:16.780 --> 01:04:20.659
about all this politicking and electioneering

01:04:20.659 --> 01:04:22.719
and stuff and hearing it straight from the mouth

01:04:22.719 --> 01:04:25.880
of somebody who knows how to win. been great

01:04:25.880 --> 01:04:28.579
talking to you again. And would you like to plug

01:04:28.579 --> 01:04:30.539
anything? Do you have any socials where people

01:04:30.539 --> 01:04:32.679
can follow you, see what you're doing? You know,

01:04:32.960 --> 01:04:34.760
you guys don't need to follow me. My socials

01:04:34.760 --> 01:04:37.199
are just me being a person on there, but I'll

01:04:37.199 --> 01:04:39.280
plug county to county. They just merged with

01:04:39.280 --> 01:04:41.780
neighbors on call. If y 'all want to get involved

01:04:41.780 --> 01:04:43.360
and help with some of these state legislature

01:04:43.360 --> 01:04:47.500
races, they're the place to be. So go check them

01:04:47.500 --> 01:04:49.780
out. And also, I don't know, I know it's only

01:04:49.780 --> 01:04:52.219
February 2025, but feel free to donate to your

01:04:52.219 --> 01:04:54.239
favorite candidates while you're at it. And Alison

01:04:54.239 --> 01:04:57.699
Riggs there. Those are my plugs. Well, thank

01:04:57.699 --> 01:04:59.380
you so much, Megan. It's been great having you

01:04:59.380 --> 01:05:01.920
on. Yes. Thanks to y 'all. It's good to see you.

01:05:03.179 --> 01:05:05.750
Well, that's a wrap on today's episode. Again,

01:05:05.849 --> 01:05:07.989
a huge thanks to Megan for joining us and sharing

01:05:07.989 --> 01:05:10.090
her insights on what it takes to win here in

01:05:10.090 --> 01:05:12.130
North Carolina. If you enjoyed this conversation,

01:05:12.449 --> 01:05:14.809
make sure to subscribe to the Left of Old North

01:05:14.809 --> 01:05:17.570
so you never miss an episode. And we are available

01:05:17.570 --> 01:05:20.170
on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you

01:05:20.170 --> 01:05:22.449
get your podcasts. If you want to stay updated

01:05:22.449 --> 01:05:24.469
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01:05:24.469 --> 01:05:26.789
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01:05:27.429 --> 01:05:30.500
Facebook, and TikTok at Left of Old North. Oh,

01:05:30.539 --> 01:05:33.920
and blue sky. Oh, and blue sky, too. Yeah. So

01:05:33.920 --> 01:05:35.880
again, thanks for listening, especially if you

01:05:35.880 --> 01:05:37.980
made it this far. We really, really appreciate

01:05:37.980 --> 01:05:40.300
it. And we'll see you next time on the left of

01:05:40.300 --> 01:05:40.719
Old North.