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Hello and welcome to the fifth episode of Left Vault North.

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We are your hosts, Adrian and CJ.

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And today Donald Trump becomes the 47th president of these glorious United States.

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And today we'll also talk a little bit about the TikTok fan, Jeff Jackson, and his hand

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in it, as well as Wiley Nickel, if we have the time.

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If we have time.

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We may get to Wiley.

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We'll see.

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But some important things are happening on January 20th, unfortunately Martin Luther

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King Jr.'s Day of Remembrance, right?

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Donald Trump is being sworn in.

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And the funny thing that I saw right off the bat is just the sheer betrayal towards some

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of it, like for some of his followers, his fervent sycophants that wanted to be out in

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the National Mall to watch him get sworn in, but they're not invited to the indoor party.

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Sorry.

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What was your reaction to that?

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To like-

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Yeah, I kind of laughed.

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You know, I thought it was a little hilarious.

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I mean, you know, they're moving it, I think it's interesting, they're moving it into the

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Capitol Rotunda, if I'm not mistaken.

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And if you know anything about the Rotunda, you know, it is kind of a smaller area, so

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it makes sense that they are having to scale it down.

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But it's also a place that has a lot of reverence for folks.

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You know, it's where, you know, some of the most like famous iconography in American history

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is like the, what's the name, Don Trumbull paintings of like the Declaration of Independence

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being signed and all that.

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But it's also where people like John McCain, Rosa Parks, most recently, Jimmy Carter have

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all lied in state.

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So it's an area that can be very sacred, very solemn.

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And now this is happening.

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And it's the swearing in of a guy who, let's be frank, does not give a shit about any of

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that.

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And is a felon.

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Oh yeah, there's that too.

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He is a convicted felon.

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We can finally say that he is 100% for sure a felon adjudicated by a court to say that

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he is indeed guilty of federal crimes and he will face zero, zero prison time for that.

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But here's the other funny thing about that too.

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MAGA people will constantly spew about how there's a two tier justice system.

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And that's, that's of course in defense of their god, Emperor King Donald Trump.

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We do have a two tiered justice system in this country.

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It's just not the one that they think it is.

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100%.

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100%.

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And it's interesting you bring up the rotunda as well, not you bring up, but it's interesting

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that they're using the rotunda as a place to hold the inauguration.

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I would think that you would hold it inside the White House, but maybe that's just me.

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Like I don't know.

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Is there some, do you think maybe we should have done a little bit more digging before

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this episode to see if there's some kind of rule that the president elect is not actually

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allowed in the White House until a certain period of time?

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You know?

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Maybe, I don't know.

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Maybe it's just because of the ceremony of it all.

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Maybe that's not allowed in there.

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I really have no idea.

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I know there's always kind of funky things with, you know, the incoming president isn't

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the president until a precise time and whatnot.

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I have no idea.

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And what an opportune moment for him to become president.

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The economy is actually somewhat regaining some steam where we're seeing some level of

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income inequality start to dip back into normal levels, which I mean, if you ask me, wasn't

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really that great to begin with, but like we're also seeing inflation sort of slow.

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What I find interesting about all this is that now Trump is going to be able to claim

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victory for a lot of things, not because he actually did them, but because in the minds

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of people that are not really paying attention that closely, he will just kind of inherit

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those victories.

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I want to go through a couple of them with you.

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The Israel-Hamas deal where they have agreed to ceasefire and prisoner exchange and hostage

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exchange exchange, excuse me.

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So he's more than likely going to get credit for that.

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And there was a moment in a press conference with Biden, I think this was a few days ago,

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where someone asked him, is President Trump going to get credit for this?

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And he kind of turns around and he goes, is that a real question?

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He goes, yes.

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And he just turns around and he's like, oh, and then he turns away.

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And like funny moment, but she's, I mean, you know, kind of out of pocket question,

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but is she wrong?

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No.

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I mean, it reminds me a lot of Jimmy Carter, actually.

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I know I mentioned him just a minute ago, but with the Iran hostage situation.

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History is repeating in the worst way possible.

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Right.

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No, they, you know, back in the day, Iran refused to negotiate, refused to release the

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American hostages that they had for well over a year, I think.

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And you know, like the, it's like the final day of Nixon's term or the first day of, or

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sorry, Carter's term, first day of Nixon's.

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It was the first day of Reagan.

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I think you mixed up Nixon and Reagan last time we talked to you.

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Yeah, well, they're both assholes anyway.

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True.

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But yes, it was the last day of Carter's administration.

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It was the first day of Reagan's administration where they were actually able to announce

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that they were coming home and that the deal had gone through.

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And it was his first day in office.

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What a victory, you know, right off the bat.

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But what we know now, and I mean, they knew this a few years later, of course, publicly,

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but that the Reagan campaign had actually spoken with some of the people who had contacts

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to the people who were holding Americans hostage during the Iran crisis.

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And like, I just think that that is such, there's not a great word for it that can be

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aired on every channel, but there is a great word that exists for it.

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And it's called rat fucking.

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Oh, yeah.

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And this is not a foreign tactic for Republicans, especially not when it comes to presidential

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elections.

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Part of the reason that Congress set the TikTok ban as January 19th was because it was the

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day before the president's, or before the president was going to get sworn in.

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That was not by accident.

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It was not some coincidence.

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But I do have some beef with Biden on this because just the other day, he said publicly

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that he would not enforce the TikTok ban.

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Now, for those of you that may not know what that means, the president is the first executive.

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All that means is that he does not create laws.

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He enforces them either through the military, through the various departments that are part

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of the executive branch, or by his own executive order power.

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Right.

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But Biden signed it.

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He could have vetoed this bill and it probably would not have passed the veto, but he did

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it anyway.

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Why?

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I'm not entirely sure.

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There's a lot of difference.

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There's a lot of speculation out there as to why.

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I mean, a lot of a lot of people point to APAC as a reason, and we don't have to get

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into them today.

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We can at some point.

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That's pretty interesting.

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I mean, for President Biden has openly stated that he is a Zionist several times before.

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This is not like some secret.

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I wouldn't be surprised if there was some influence there.

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However, we do know that several members of Congress were being paid by Facebook, Metta,

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sorry, sorry, Zuck, by Metta and by a lot of different social media platforms to potentially

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vote against something like this.

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Yeah.

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Or vote for the ban, rather.

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So I'm wondering, A, what good graces this actually grants him, if any, and has he simply

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just paved the way for Donald Trump to look like the good guy here?

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Yeah, I think he did.

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I think that's what's going to be interesting.

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So TikTok goes dark on the 19th, right?

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Or it went dark on the 19th.

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So I mean, schedule go out on the 19th, right?

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Inauguration is the 20th.

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Trump indicated a couple of days ago that he would be open to at least extending that

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ban another 90 days.

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So he gets in there.

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He is able to say, well, hey, I saved TikTok for now, at least in his first big victory,

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something that will get a lot of younger people going, oh, nice.

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Yay, that's awesome.

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Yeah, I kind of like this guy who grabs the bat, which is a smart strategy, I will say.

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It is a very smart strategy.

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Yeah, he's evil, but he's not really...

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Okay, he's evil, but the people around him aren't stupid.

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I'll put it like that.

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No, and I don't think he's necessarily stupid.

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He just knows how to play to his strengths, which are being a sassy bitch and knowing

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what makes people pay attention.

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Yeah.

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He's good about badminton audience.

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He knows how to do that.

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And I think one thing that one of the many things that helps to explain Donald Trump's

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success, so say in politics, is the way the party, the Democratic Party, constantly kind

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of, I would say underestimated him, but did not take him seriously, did not accurately

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assess his strengths.

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I would definitely say underestimated, for sure.

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And they failed to realize early on, you know, this is a guy who has managed to have lawsuits

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brought against him like every other day, it seems, and then all dropped, or got away

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scot-free, they called him the Teflon Don for a reason.

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And he is a guy that has managed to somehow still stay relevant and popular in the entertainment

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business world, whatever, despite having multiple bankruptcies and failures and whatnot.

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He always has found a way to come back.

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He's like a cockroach that he can't kill.

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Because he's too interesting.

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Exactly.

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And the party failed to realize that.

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I think they thought it was a novelty that would die off very soon and people would get

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tired and move on to the next thing.

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Yeah, I think he actually, I know his team in 16 didn't expect him to win and they were

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kind of like a, oh shit, whenever he did.

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Yeah.

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There's a bunch of great, many documentaries on YouTube that talk about that.

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And there's some actual like full on produced documentaries that talk about this.

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Like they, what all this started out as, I don't remember what the network was, but he

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was basically about to lose any like ability to make a TV show on some network.

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It might have been NBC or ABC or something like that.

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And as a stunt, he started running for president.

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Yeah.

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But the problem was that he was too spicy, right?

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And so it actually ended up making it worse, making the situation worse, not better for

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his TV deals.

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Unfortunately, and what they did not expect was that this would make him make an incredible

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opportunity for his presidential bid.

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I don't think they saw that coming.

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And so they just went with it.

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But you made an interesting note or you made an interesting observation just a moment ago

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that he is Teflon Don and he's called that for a reason.

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He's been called that for many years, way before the, he started running against the

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democratic party.

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And you know, there is, CJ, are you a student of history?

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I like to think I am one of my minors in college was history.

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So, well, then I hope you remember the second Punic war.

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That's right, folks.

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I'm going way back today.

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Hop in the time machine.

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There's a famous story about Fabius Maximus.

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He was consul.

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And as Roman consul, you're only elected for one year and you try to get as much glory

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and recognition as possible.

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Like you know, that's what they did anyway, in that year as you possibly can to elevate

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your status, make you enrich yourself, yada, yada, yada.

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What Fabius was tasked with was fighting the one and only Hannibal, Hannibal Barca, a

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man who is at the moment when he was elected consul, just tearing through Northern Rome

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or Northern Italy.

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Now why do I bring all this up?

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Because Fabius's grand strategy to defeat the seemingly unbeatable Hannibal was to not

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fight him.

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And that may seem silly to a lot of people who want to get up and fight, especially Romans,

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especially Democrats and progressives that are eager to get up off their ass and fight

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this asshole.

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However, the Fabian strategy is not simply just running away and not fighting him.

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The Fabian strategy included a mix of just tearing down everything else around him.

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Okay.

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And eventually this evolved into Scipio, Scipio, who more famously known as Scipio Africanus.

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Scipio was the next big general that came around that was able to lead troops against

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Hannibal.

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Why am I bringing him up?

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Because Scipio's thing was to employ the Fabian strategy and then go and take out all of his

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allies, all of the conquered city states, all of the vast kingdoms that had come to

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fight for him simply because they did not like Rome.

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Where am I going with all this?

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Why am I giving you all a history lesson right now?

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Because we should have been employing a Fabian-Scipian strategy this whole time.

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And to a certain extent, I think that the Democratic party and many arms of the Democratic

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party did, especially during midterms.

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But the problem was in 2024, we tried to fight him directly and he ran probably the most

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laxatasical campaign you've ever seen.

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00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:48,440
I mean, right up until the end, actually, I think the McDonald's stunt might have put

239
00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,880
him over the finish line in a few states.

240
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,200
But that's my big thing for tonight.

241
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:55,200
Something that I wanted to bring up.

242
00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:56,200
I was thinking about this earlier.

243
00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:01,320
I was like, you know, I think for a time a lot of Democrats were like the Romans.

244
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:05,400
They just wanted to fight so bad and hey, we can't bow down to fascism.

245
00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:07,560
It's like, yeah, no, we're not bowing down to him.

246
00:12:07,560 --> 00:12:09,680
We're simply not adding fuel to the fire.

247
00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:14,840
The same thing happened in 2016 where Donald Trump got all this free press from CNN and

248
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,560
MSNBC, all these different television stations.

249
00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:21,960
It's purely on the base, purely on the fact that he is entertaining to watch.

250
00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:22,960
He's like a car wreck.

251
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:24,800
He's like a fire engine wreck.

252
00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:25,800
You just can't look away.

253
00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,800
You're like, oh man, that's really bad.

254
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,600
Like, I've seen bad wrecks before, but this is like bad, bad.

255
00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,000
So I'm curious to know what you think about that observation and history lesson.

256
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:40,640
I think that's pretty accurate.

257
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:42,600
Those who don't learn their history, do them to repeat it, yada yada.

258
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,320
Oh yeah, no, most definitely.

259
00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,880
History doesn't always repeat itself, but it rhymes for sure.

260
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:48,880
It rhymes.

261
00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:49,880
Is that a George Lucas thing?

262
00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:50,880
That's what I thought.

263
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:51,880
I'm glad you caught that.

264
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:59,480
Was I even saying, oh yeah, yeah.

265
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:05,400
I think the party apparatus as a whole was very slow to adapt and was still slow to adapt.

266
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:12,360
Not just going after him, but trying to attract supporters and new people in general.

267
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,120
But that's a conversation for maybe a little later.

268
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:16,120
Yeah, maybe.

269
00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:19,760
But the media also, because you got to get on this with the free press, the media does

270
00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:21,200
not know how to hold him accountable.

271
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:28,360
They have done an absolute shit job treating everything that he has done over the past

272
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,000
10 years, basically at this point, as something normal.

273
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,880
That's something that gets them ratings for sure.

274
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:34,880
Oh yeah, no, most definitely.

275
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,400
And it definitely does.

276
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:41,520
But the normalization of Donald Trump by the media, by the news, definitely helped him.

277
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:42,520
Definitely helped him.

278
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,200
And then, okay, I've never liked Jimmy Fallon, right?

279
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:46,200
I never thought he was funny.

280
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:47,880
I swear to God, I'm going somewhere with this.

281
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,560
No, I'm with you already.

282
00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:53,920
But once he brought Donald Trump on his show during the 2016 race.

283
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:54,920
Tussled his hair.

284
00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:57,760
Yeah, tussled his hair and all that stuff.

285
00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:58,760
And then, he was able to stabilize him.

286
00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:04,240
This is someone who is a wannabe, and we'll see, in the coming days and weeks, will be

287
00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,320
an authoritarian.

288
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:15,400
He is someone who does not care about the preservation of our democracy, the preservation

289
00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:16,400
of separation of powers.

290
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:21,440
He does not care about anything other than empowering himself, getting himself out of

291
00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:27,400
jail, making himself richer, and silencing anyone who gets in his way.

292
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:32,400
And I think the way the news approaches it, covering him, like I said, is awful.

293
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:33,680
It doesn't even just extend to him.

294
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:38,040
I think this bad approach from the media also extends to the people he surrounds himself

295
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:39,040
with.

296
00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:44,360
Treating people like Stephen Miller, Steve Bannon as just normal kooky guys, really,

297
00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:49,640
instead of the authoritarian racist pieces of shit that they are.

298
00:14:49,640 --> 00:14:54,160
And then, extend that to people like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg.

299
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,480
That behavior is not normal in a healthy democracy.

300
00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,520
We heard Biden say the other night in his little farewell speech, a warning about how

301
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,320
the country was descending, although it already is, an oligarchy.

302
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,520
Yeah, that's the new line.

303
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:12,840
And I may sound a bit like I'm antagonizing liberals here, but that's the new line that

304
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,000
they're going to start rolling out, is that all of a sudden, we're in oligarchy because

305
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,000
of Trump.

306
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:22,680
Everybody needs to realize right freaking now that we have been, if not an outright

307
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,640
been, a shadow oligarchy for a very, very long time.

308
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:27,640
This is not new.

309
00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:28,640
Oh yeah.

310
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:33,540
I mean, even in most recent history, I can point to somebody like Reagan winning purely

311
00:15:33,540 --> 00:15:42,080
because the oligarchical powers of oil and gas, news, media, and like so many other industries,

312
00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:47,440
coal even, were wholly set on getting this guy into office because Jimmy Carter was disrupting

313
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:48,440
everything.

314
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:49,440
Jimmy Carter was the disrupter.

315
00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:50,440
Yeah.

316
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,880
And then he wasn't exactly like the most progressive president we've ever had.

317
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:54,880
No.

318
00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,400
And you can look back through history and you can see people like FDR.

319
00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:02,960
FDR was truly radical in a lot of ways, borderline authoritarian.

320
00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:06,160
I might not even say borderline because like stacking the courts and doing all these other

321
00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,640
things sounds great when it's on your side, but like the law of political reciprocity

322
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:11,640
still applies.

323
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:12,640
Yeah.

324
00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,320
Anything you can do, your enemy can do you and worse.

325
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:21,020
So here's my problem with the oligarchy thing is that it's basically consigning everybody

326
00:16:21,020 --> 00:16:24,520
to just accept that we are an oligarchy.

327
00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,440
It's basically just laying the groundwork for like, well, this is just the way it works.

328
00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:30,440
Yeah.

329
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:31,440
And I think a lot of people are already assessing it.

330
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:32,440
Yeah.

331
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:33,440
It's giving permission to exist.

332
00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:34,440
Yes.

333
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:35,440
Yeah.

334
00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,560
It's giving permission to exist instead of saying, this isn't right.

335
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:38,560
This needs to be fought back against.

336
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,600
But you know, what do you expect whenever you have members of Congress with stock and

337
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:42,600
things like meta?

338
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:43,600
Yeah.

339
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,040
I think that's when the news media is owned by the very billionaires who are trying to

340
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:52,080
affect the oligarchical changes within the government that we are currently lambasting.

341
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:59,040
But like there was a New York Times cartoonist that recently quit because their editor got

342
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,840
word from the top that being Bezos, or not New York Times, I'm sorry.

343
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,000
Washington Post.

344
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,000
Excuse me.

345
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,040
A cartoonist from the Washington Post made a cartoon.

346
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,440
I'm sure if you've listened to this, I'm sure you've seen it on Blue Sky, on like other

347
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:17,540
places where it's all of the like big tech billionaires and Disney bowing down to probably

348
00:17:17,540 --> 00:17:22,920
the fattest iteration of Trump that I've seen in cartoon form, which is a high bar to clear,

349
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:23,920
let's be honest.

350
00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:28,920
Actually, you know, talking about the news media, I think that's something that is that's

351
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:29,920
going to bother me.

352
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,120
That bothers me a little bit about how things currently are.

353
00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:34,960
And you and I can talk about this outside of the podcast.

354
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,600
I think last time we were recording.

355
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:42,680
That one thing that worries me is the fact that if you look at kind of the playing field

356
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:48,600
of media and forms of communication, a dangerous situation that we're in right now as far as

357
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,400
being able to freely express that stuff.

358
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,600
So if you look at it, so you got Twitter, right?

359
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:54,600
Or X, whatever.

360
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:55,600
It's Twitter.

361
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:56,600
Yeah.

362
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,520
I'm not going to give you a lot of the satisfaction.

363
00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,720
But that is in his that is in Trump's pocket.

364
00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,920
Like that is his that is one of the sound and boards in this.

365
00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,640
He's like his own true social stuff, right?

366
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:12,840
He has some like Mark Zuckerberg, who, while maybe not out really worshipping at the altar

367
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:17,480
of Trump, is repeating some of the same sort of rhetoric and has said, you know, at Metta,

368
00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:21,040
we are changing our policies to, you know, not allow fat checkers.

369
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,960
It's this community notes like on Twitter.

370
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,320
And we're doing away with all these various protections for, you know, persecuted groups,

371
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:29,320
all this stuff.

372
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:30,760
So very Trump-esque rhetoric.

373
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,480
And then you have the I'll get to talk in a minute because that'd be a good segue, I

374
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:36,480
guess.

375
00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:41,200
But then whenever you look at more traditional media like print journalism, that's dying.

376
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,680
It's been dying for a long time.

377
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:51,160
And then even your CNNs, MSNBCs, their viewership is on downward spiral whereas Fox News tends

378
00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,000
to be going up or at least staying steady where it is, no signs of faltering.

379
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,280
And then there's talk of interest in selling MSNBC and all this stuff to God knows who.

380
00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:04,040
And then even then these more unbiased sources like the ABC News and all that stuff, they're

381
00:19:04,040 --> 00:19:05,720
just talking and not doing well either.

382
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:11,760
And so what happens whenever the only people who are able to kind of own these outlets

383
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,800
of news, the only people who can afford to buy them are people who are in the pocket

384
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,840
or at least are sucking up to Trump.

385
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,240
He will then control or can control at least influence to some extent.

386
00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:23,960
Yeah, control by proxy.

387
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:24,960
Exactly.

388
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,160
It's, you know, it's state media, so to say.

389
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:32,480
And then I think that's one of the things that I hate so much about this whole TikTok

390
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:39,920
ban thing is, excuse me, sorry, is that, you know, we can, you can argue, oh, it was, you

391
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,840
know, it's right to national security, which I think is a bunch of bullshit anyway.

392
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,160
It's meta-sales are data in China.

393
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:47,160
It's no different.

394
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:48,160
Oh, we know it's bullshit.

395
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:49,160
Yeah.

396
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:50,160
Oh yeah.

397
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:55,720
And so TikTok was kind of a unique area, it was a unique app really, in that it allowed

398
00:19:55,720 --> 00:20:00,160
people from all over the world to come together and create communities.

399
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,560
I mean, I got on it during COVID like a lot of people did before that.

400
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,520
I wrote it off as, oh, it's just, you know, stupid dance nap and all that, you know, a

401
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:08,520
dimmer attitude.

402
00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,640
And then I got on it, like, oh my God, it's actually really cool.

403
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:15,120
And, you know, I always, that was definitely probably the most used app on my phone for

404
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:16,120
a long time.

405
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:20,360
You know, I'd be able to like see these walks of life and whatnot that I might not have

406
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:21,360
gotten to otherwise.

407
00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:27,600
And not to mention there's the fact that, you know, so many businesses in America used

408
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,880
it to either start up their business or to help get their business through tough times

409
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:35,560
or there was different COVID or maybe just a slow period or something like that.

410
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:40,840
But it was also a place where we could talk very openly and very honestly about the things

411
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:41,840
that were bothering us.

412
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:42,840
Well, sometimes.

413
00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:43,840
Sometimes.

414
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,240
Depending on what it was, right?

415
00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:50,040
I think it was at least a more, a slightly more open place than say, Met or Twitter or

416
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:51,040
whatever.

417
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:52,040
Sure.

418
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,960
Do you think that's partially because it wasn't through, and I'm just interrupting here because

419
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:56,440
I want to ask a clarifying question.

420
00:20:56,440 --> 00:21:02,280
Do you think that that was more due to just that it was actual people and their accounts?

421
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:06,240
You know, it's almost like a face-to-face interaction with somebody.

422
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:09,880
Whereas something like, I mean, it got more curated as time went on.

423
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,880
It became a little bit more heavily produced from some creators.

424
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,280
But I really do get the sense that it's not like Facebook, not like Instagram, it's not

425
00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,800
like Twitter because somebody starts talking to you about something and it's just their

426
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,840
face talking to you.

427
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,360
Does that create a more, I guess, one-to-one interaction?

428
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:31,200
Like almost this pseudo relationship with somebody, like you're meeting up with them at a bar

429
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,440
or I mean the town square.

430
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:34,440
For town square.

431
00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:39,440
Yeah, I would argue that was kind of the modern town square in a society where third spaces

432
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:40,960
are disappearing like crazy.

433
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:41,960
Oh man.

434
00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:46,360
We could definitely go on about third spaces.

435
00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:51,880
But in a society where third spaces are disappearing and whatever there is, isn't much to speak

436
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:52,880
of.

437
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:53,880
Kind of blows, yeah.

438
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,600
I think that was, you know, even I kind of thought about and you mentioned that you think

439
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,480
the government kind of knew that this whole like switch over to like Red App or something

440
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,760
like that was probably going to happen.

441
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:02,760
And I can see that.

442
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:07,320
I will say, I do think that the government forgot about one thing and it's that, you

443
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:13,760
know, somewhere like there is intrinsically in that reptilian Neanderthalian brain, so

444
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:14,760
to say.

445
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:15,760
That's a real word.

446
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:16,760
I Googled it.

447
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:21,880
There is this desire, this need for interaction, for communication, but most importantly for

448
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:22,880
connection.

449
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:29,560
And, you know, if you add to that our natural curiosity, then to me it's a surprise that

450
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,880
we everyone started going over to Red Note.

451
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:32,880
You know?

452
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:33,880
Yeah.

453
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,640
Well, and part of that for sure is an addictive personality.

454
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,040
That's a lot of people.

455
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:43,320
I have fully acknowledged multiple times that there are a lot of people that simply are

456
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,040
like not going to get their fix anymore.

457
00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,080
And TikTok was definitely one of the easiest ways to get that.

458
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,080
Yeah.

459
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,580
Because I'm going to be real frank right now.

460
00:22:51,580 --> 00:22:55,280
Most of the other apps, their layout sucks and I hate it.

461
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:56,280
Oh yeah.

462
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,600
And like even though TikTok, like every three or four videos, it was an ad, you knew that.

463
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:00,840
You could just scroll right past it.

464
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:01,840
Yeah.

465
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:02,840
Right.

466
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:04,080
But most of the time when you're scrolling on your feed, it's going to be something you

467
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,080
want to see, right?

468
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:06,720
You're still going to get a little bit of that dopamine rush.

469
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:07,720
Right.

470
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,920
But on Facebook, almost nothing that I see on the front page is what I want to see.

471
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:11,920
Right.

472
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,920
And like I only go there to talk to my family and friends.

473
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,680
So like you're stuck in this little cycle of like trying to find something.

474
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:18,680
It's not a great experience.

475
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,120
It doesn't feel good when you're scrolling Facebook because you're not satisfied with

476
00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:23,120
what you've seen.

477
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:24,480
I think the same is true for Instagram.

478
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,320
And I mean, they are the same thing basically.

479
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,960
I mean, like shoot, I watched this whole mini documentary series on YouTube where the guy

480
00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:35,600
was like examining why Facebook and meta apps are so enticing to like our brains.

481
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,000
And one of the minuscule examples he gave or like one of the many miniature examples

482
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,920
he gave was that like all of the posts are just big enough so that they fit in a window

483
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:49,520
size but you can also see the one that comes before it and the one that comes after it.

484
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:51,040
Like you can see the next thing.

485
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:54,540
Your brain has to, like you're saying your Neanderthal brain, your lizard brain has to

486
00:23:54,540 --> 00:23:56,460
complete what you just saw.

487
00:23:56,460 --> 00:23:58,480
We are pattern recognition computers.

488
00:23:58,480 --> 00:23:59,480
Yeah.

489
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,720
You know, we are very good at recognizing when something should be something.

490
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:04,720
Right.

491
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,400
That's why people see faces in toast and stuff.

492
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,320
So when you're scrolling and you see this box that's incomplete and you're like, oh,

493
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,320
what's that?

494
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:12,840
And so it's basically just a repetition of, oh, what's that?

495
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:13,840
Oh, what's that?

496
00:24:13,840 --> 00:24:14,840
Oh, what's that?

497
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:15,880
So you're looking for a good experience though.

498
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,720
That tires your brain out after a while.

499
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:18,720
And here's the catch.

500
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:19,720
They don't care.

501
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,120
That's kind of the point.

502
00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:24,040
They don't give a shit that it tires you out and makes you feel like crap.

503
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:25,920
By the end of it, you stayed on the platform longer.

504
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:26,920
That was the goal.

505
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:27,920
Right.

506
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,200
They're engineering your brain to be on their stupid social media platform for longer.

507
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:34,280
TikTok does a lot of the same thing.

508
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,160
It's just a different experience because it feels more real.

509
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:39,720
It feels genuine is what it is.

510
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,600
It feels like you're actually connecting.

511
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:47,480
And I do wonder if part of that aspect of that feeling of connecting is because a lot

512
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:53,960
of the users did come across it during COVID, during a time of mass isolation, a time of

513
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:54,960
wanting that connection.

514
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:55,960
Yeah.

515
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,640
And you know what people are really mourning too?

516
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:01,440
It's not even just that it's like, oh man, TikTok's going to be gone.

517
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,000
It's the algorithm that they've built, that they've cultivated probably over years.

518
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,480
You know what you want to watch when you're going on a TikTok.

519
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:13,600
You're not there to watch a bunch of Chinese propaganda that never pops up on my for you

520
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:14,600
page.

521
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:15,600
Same.

522
00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:16,600
Yeah.

523
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,960
Maybe at first, when I was first scrolling through it like four years ago, that wasn't

524
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,480
that long ago, maybe three years ago.

525
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,000
But regardless, I'm not sitting there just scrolling through it and thinking, man, I

526
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,960
really just, I love Xi Jinping.

527
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:29,520
I just don't know what it is.

528
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,560
I'm just completely overtaken by this guy.

529
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,160
One day you're going to run for office and some Republicans going to find that clip and

530
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:36,160
use that.

531
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:37,160
You're right.

532
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:38,520
I should probably cut that.

533
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:39,520
I'm not even joking.

534
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:40,520
I should probably cut that.

535
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,520
They're going to play it over and over again.

536
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:44,520
I love Xi Jinping.

537
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,520
I love Xi Jinping.

538
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:47,520
Damn it.

539
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:48,520
This has ruined me.

540
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:51,040
You've fallen for it, Adrian.

541
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:52,240
Oh my God.

542
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:54,400
But that's the, that's the, that's what we live in now.

543
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:55,400
Yeah.

544
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:56,400
See, TikTok is tracking your data.

545
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,200
And what if some, what if some four year old that's addicted to TikTok and YouTube kids

546
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,440
is going to run for office someday?

547
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,320
China will have all the dirt on it.

548
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:08,760
That was probably the wildest thing that came out of those hearings that the Supreme Court

549
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:13,960
hearings that I have ever heard is, well, what if somebody like 50 years from now runs

550
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:17,880
for office and because they were on TikTok, China has all this dirt on them.

551
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,040
It's like, what dirt?

552
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,640
What are you talking about that they scrolled through game of Thrones edits where they're

553
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,380
thirsting after Robb Stark?

554
00:26:25,380 --> 00:26:27,980
Like I don't know what you mean by this.

555
00:26:27,980 --> 00:26:30,840
Probably some of the most embarrassing things that people will be scrolling through with

556
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,920
their FYPs, stuff like that.

557
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:33,920
Not that I do that.

558
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,320
You can't, you'll never be able to verify because TikTok is going away.

559
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:38,480
Maybe this is a blessing in disguise.

560
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:39,480
I don't know.

561
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:40,480
Side track here.

562
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:41,480
I'm curious to you.

563
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:42,480
What was, I know my answer.

564
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:43,480
I'll give it a second to you.

565
00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:44,480
What was the funniest day on TikTok?

566
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:45,480
Oh, or funniest era, let's say the funniest era.

567
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:46,480
Okay.

568
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:51,480
I know this is going to sound a little millennial boomer of me, but there was that guy.

569
00:26:51,480 --> 00:27:00,480
He's like a journalist guy and he's like, I want to take this opportunity on Star Wars

570
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:01,480
data.

571
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:02,480
Introduce my girlfriend.

572
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,760
Uh, uh, Marcus diploma or something like that.

573
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:12,560
And people just iterated on it for, if you, you guys can find it on YouTube somewhere,

574
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,640
just, just look up star Wars day, introduce my girlfriend, TikTok.

575
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:17,640
You will find it.

576
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:18,640
Oh yeah.

577
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,920
It's like literally hours upon hours of people stitching and like doing all these crazy things.

578
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,080
Like it's just like one of them's like holding up a nerf gun and it's like, I've got the

579
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:27,080
shot.

580
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,600
She just needs to blink once to let me know that she's going to be okay.

581
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,680
And then someone like dressed up as like Captain America about to jump out of a helicopter

582
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:34,680
and whatnot.

583
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:35,680
Yeah.

584
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,800
I think that's the, the, the, like one of the defining things pretty early on when I

585
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,480
was on TikTok that I was like, okay, this is, this is pretty fun.

586
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:42,480
Yeah.

587
00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,960
I think for me, and this is going to sound bad for me, it was probably the whole ocean

588
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:46,960
gate thing.

589
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:47,960
Oh my God.

590
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:55,480
Uh, just the dumping of everyone was incredible in a way.

591
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,200
It was kind of funny and very morbid kind of, you know, dark humor sort of way.

592
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:00,200
Sure.

593
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,880
I think it was also very interesting to see how everyone or not everyone, but a lot of

594
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,000
people, you know, kind of ignored the whole, you know, these are actual like people in

595
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,440
the sub who have now died, you know, who have actual families and whatnot and focused on

596
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,560
the whole kind of class aspects of it.

597
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:16,560
Yeah.

598
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:18,680
There were billionaires who gives a shit.

599
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,160
It was kind of the precursor to Luigi.

600
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:22,160
Yeah.

601
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,160
No, very much was.

602
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:25,160
Which the, I never thought about it like that.

603
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,160
Yeah.

604
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:27,160
I kind of never have.

605
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:30,080
And this was even something I don't, this was not a break I placed.

606
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,600
But the number like Luigi, like the thirst traps I ended up getting were actually kind

607
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:34,600
of hilarious.

608
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:35,600
What were you searching up?

609
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:36,600
I wasn't searching anything.

610
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:37,600
I just thought it was hilarious.

611
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:38,600
Yeah.

612
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:39,600
Brick by brick, CJ.

613
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,080
There is a reason that it's there.

614
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,760
You're trying to say your Chinese spy is putting those videos in front of you because you want

615
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,720
them to have genetically engineered or not genetically.

616
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,800
They have bio engineered your brain to be desperate for those thirst traps.

617
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:59,520
Well, they, uh, they really also went in hard on the, uh, the King Prawn, uh, story memes

618
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:00,520
that I missed.

619
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:01,520
Oh my God.

620
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:02,520
You did not know Pepe the King Prawn.

621
00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:03,520
Oh my God.

622
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:04,520
No, I definitely missed it.

623
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,960
That's like a couple months, but it'd just be a Pepe, uh, from, uh, the Muppets and it'd

624
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,200
just be like these most incredible range of stories.

625
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:13,200
Yes.

626
00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:14,200
I did.

627
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,200
I, no, I did not miss that.

628
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,880
I completely misinterpreted what the trend you were talking about was.

629
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:18,880
Okay.

630
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:19,880
Okay.

631
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:20,880
I forgot his name was Pepe the Prawn.

632
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:21,880
Yeah.

633
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:22,880
See, I was thinking like Pepe the Frog.

634
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:23,880
Oh God.

635
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,600
And then I'm like, what does that have to do with anything?

636
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:26,600
But yes.

637
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:27,600
Yeah.

638
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:28,600
Yeah.

639
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:29,600
I forgot some of those.

640
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:30,600
Uh, some of them went way too long.

641
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,600
Some of them did, but some of them, I also-

642
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:34,600
Maximum four slides in my opinion.

643
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,240
I will say there were a few of them where they're like 20 slides.

644
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,240
I'm like, I'm not going to read all this, but I read the first couple of slides.

645
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:41,240
I'm like, Oh God.

646
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:42,240
Okay.

647
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:43,240
Let's see what happens.

648
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,240
It should just be a video at that point, but hey, you got to go with the trend, right?

649
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:47,240
Exactly.

650
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,640
Anyway, so let's talk about how we got to this point really.

651
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:50,640
Please.

652
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:51,640
TikTok ban.

653
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:52,640
Um, got there.

654
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:55,560
So I know this has gone on for years.

655
00:29:55,560 --> 00:30:00,680
Actually the first time there was like a TikTok ban was near the end or talk about TikTok

656
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,840
ban was near the end of Trump's term.

657
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:03,840
Yep.

658
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:04,840
2019.

659
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:05,840
Yeah.

660
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:06,840
And that ended up not going anywhere.

661
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,880
I think maybe you just failed and get the votes or something like that.

662
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,480
I think they were worried that they weren't going to get the votes and they didn't go

663
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,840
anywhere, but he talked about it a lot.

664
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:20,860
But now this more modern thing, um, it turned into just really, I think, I do think a lot

665
00:30:20,860 --> 00:30:25,000
of it and you could see this in the hearings with, uh, the CEO TikTok.

666
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:30,480
A lot of it still wanes in heavily into the whole red scare type of thing.

667
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:36,040
This sinophobia, sinophobia sort of thing, even though to a pro the CEO TikTok, he's

668
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,120
Singaporean Senator anyway.

669
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,820
You work for a Chinese company, do you not?

670
00:30:41,820 --> 00:30:44,200
Have you ever held Chinese?

671
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,680
I just love when he, I think, I think that somebody gave him a note and they were like,

672
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,800
Mr. True, look, Tom Cotton is a Republican.

673
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,220
He supports, you know, he supports veterans and military members.

674
00:30:55,220 --> 00:30:57,640
Just mentioned to him that you've served your country.

675
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,120
Like as a soldier, he'll have more respect for you.

676
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,600
And in the, you can see it.

677
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,200
He tries really hard to be like, I served my country in Singapore.

678
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:05,200
Like I'm Singapore.

679
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,160
Just Tom Cotton just completely glosses over it.

680
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,400
Just doesn't, I don't think it even registered.

681
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:10,400
Yeah.

682
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,720
And I will say, I think one of the problems with the TikTok ban in general and just the

683
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,560
approach to technology as a whole and technology legislation is the people who are making these

684
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,440
results have no understanding of how this technology works.

685
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,840
You know, the average age of Congress is what, like 63 or something like that?

686
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:28,840
Something like that.

687
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,880
And, you know, a lot of these people, or there are some people who were born with a red scare,

688
00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,640
the OG red scare was a thing, you know?

689
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,960
People, when they were born, people were still using rotary phones.

690
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:39,960
Exactly.

691
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:40,960
Exactly.

692
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,040
And this isn't just a rag on them for being old or whatever.

693
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:46,040
No, but it's indicative.

694
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:47,040
Sorry.

695
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,040
It is.

696
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:49,040
It is very indicative.

697
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,960
It is indicative of one of the big problems is that these people are so detached from

698
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:59,840
the realities of say of how Americans interact with technology and the impact that technology

699
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,720
has on everyday lives, but also the potential impact of technology, for example, AI.

700
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,920
You know, I don't think I could ever see, I don't know, what's his name, Steny Hoyer,

701
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:10,920
whoever.

702
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:11,920
Steny Hoyer.

703
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:12,920
Steny Hoyer.

704
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,240
I could not see him even trying to understand AI.

705
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:21,060
I think if you tried to show him what AI was, it would be the same as if you showed a cell

706
00:32:21,060 --> 00:32:24,520
phone to a middle-aged peasant.

707
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:25,520
Yeah.

708
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:27,800
Just be like, what is this magic?

709
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:28,800
Yeah.

710
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,360
Like I can totally see you showing it to like Chuck Grassley, who is still in the Senate,

711
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,680
by the way, at 93 years old, I believe.

712
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,760
And he'd be like, now does it work the same way as a telegraph?

713
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,800
I could see that happening for real.

714
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:47,080
Like, because the way that they were asking some of these questions is, you're right,

715
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:48,080
detached.

716
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:54,840
Completely just, maybe not detached, but definitely, you know, definitely just not aware of the

717
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:59,800
implications of technological progress and like how that's going to tie into free speech

718
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,000
and everything like that.

719
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,280
When you start banning apps, you start banning the ability to facilitate free speech.

720
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:10,320
Now, the only thing that I will always kind of agree with just on a constitutional level

721
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,520
is that, yeah, I mean, but there's always another platform.

722
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,680
The slippery slope argument is that, well, what if they just ban the next platform?

723
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:24,480
And I see and understand the argument, but maybe people should touch grass just a little

724
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:25,480
bit more.

725
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:30,040
And this is going to be another shout out right here towards the end of the episode.

726
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,020
Get outside and go talk to your local county parties.

727
00:33:33,020 --> 00:33:34,020
Go get involved.

728
00:33:34,020 --> 00:33:35,020
Yeah.

729
00:33:35,020 --> 00:33:37,800
But I mean, and at the risk of sounding like a boomer, right?

730
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:43,360
It just is, I mean, and I'm somebody who spends like half my life on the internet, but we

731
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,600
have to kind of put these things into perspective and stop wallowing in grief over the things

732
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:48,600
we're losing.

733
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,560
And I'm not trying to sound like a boomer when I say all that, right?

734
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:55,080
It's just that we have the tools in the real world necessary to be able to communicate

735
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:56,360
with people, right?

736
00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,280
Taking away an app should not cripple that.

737
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,840
If you are not doing the work outside of social media, then you're not doing the work for

738
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:03,840
real.

739
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:08,400
I mean, I know that there is a place and definitely, I mean, shoot, I'm trying to become more of

740
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,640
a digital organizer for my career, but I know that you have to turn that into reality.

741
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,360
You have to have action attached to that.

742
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:18,900
You can't just make a Facebook group or another TikTok and think that that was action.

743
00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:20,440
That was communication.

744
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,680
It's the front facing piece of it.

745
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,400
But if you're not doing anything on the backend, you're not doing anything.

746
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,120
That's just my piece on that.

747
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,360
So with TikTok being banned, do you think that there's a chance it'll come back?

748
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:32,260
Do you think that there's a chance that somebody will buy it?

749
00:34:32,260 --> 00:34:33,660
Are we freaking out over nothing?

750
00:34:33,660 --> 00:34:34,660
So-

751
00:34:34,660 --> 00:34:40,360
And does Jeff Jackson deserve to be tarred and feathered metaphorically?

752
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:46,600
I'll answer the first part of that first.

753
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:47,600
I'm not sure.

754
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:55,760
One of the stipulations is that ByteDance completely give up or sell this part to an

755
00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:00,160
American company so it can divest completely from any connection from China, whatever.

756
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,280
But they have been very adamant about saying we will not do that, which I guess it props

757
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,320
to them for standing by that.

758
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:11,760
Yeah, it's very, very communist of them to want to hold onto their capitalistic integrity.

759
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:12,760
Anyway.

760
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:20,600
I will say, there has been talk about Mark Cuban trying to buy it, which I don't think

761
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:21,600
that's anything serious.

762
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,720
I don't think he has enough money for that, to be honest.

763
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:28,480
Yeah, but then there's talk of, and there's actually an offer by Kevin O'Leary, who was

764
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,640
also on Shark Tank with Mark Cuban.

765
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,240
But Kevin O'Leary, this Canadian billionaire who is also a giant Trump supporter, also

766
00:35:35,240 --> 00:35:36,600
one of the biggest assholes I've ever seen.

767
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,280
You're talking about how it's good that there was a top one for saying how it inspires everyone

768
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,000
to actually pull themselves up by their boots.

769
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,120
Jeff, I can't stand the guy.

770
00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:45,120
Anyway.

771
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,120
These are our lords now.

772
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,120
These are the people that sit at a table-

773
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,880
With the refuse to worship at that altar.

774
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,400
No, I mean, like lords, like feudal lords.

775
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:56,400
Feudal lords, yeah.

776
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:57,480
These are our feudal lords now.

777
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,760
These are the guys that sit at the tables with each other and then just talk about how successful

778
00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:01,760
they are.

779
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:03,240
But they don't actually do anything, guys.

780
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:05,440
It's a giant financial circle, jerk.

781
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,520
Anyway, don't know if we'll cut that out or not.

782
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,520
I will not cut that out.

783
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:14,800
Anyway, I know like Kevin O'Leary put forth an offer with another investor.

784
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:19,260
I don't think that's gone anywhere, but I think it will all depend on if Trump does

785
00:36:19,260 --> 00:36:24,200
decide to delay another 90 days, his ban, another 90 days, and we'll kind of see what

786
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:25,200
happens then.

787
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,520
I think the future is still very unclear.

788
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,720
As far as Jeff Jackson goes, there are two angles to this.

789
00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:36,560
One, and you and I kind of talked about this a little bit before we started recording.

790
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:40,760
He was one vote yes for the ban.

791
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:45,120
And like you mentioned earlier, there were still 300 whatever people who voted and a

792
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:46,760
certain number voted yes.

793
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,560
And they also do deserve the blame.

794
00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:50,560
They all do.

795
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,680
I think what it is with Jeff Jackson though, that pissed people off so much, and I can

796
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,280
understand why they are so pissed.

797
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:57,280
I can get that.

798
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:01,720
And he got on there and did a little make-up by himself.

799
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:05,920
But this was a guy who started out in the General Assembly and then kind of worked his

800
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:12,000
way up a little bit, became congressman, and built a rather substantial following and became

801
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:18,080
very well known actually, because he was able to take all the happenings on Capitol Hill

802
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:22,720
and present it from a very nuanced, I wouldn't say completely nuanced role because obviously

803
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:25,040
he is a Democrat, but a pretty clear-

804
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:26,040
And just level-headed.

805
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,040
Yeah, thank you.

806
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:28,040
A very level-headed way.

807
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,120
He was able to present it in a very level-headed way.

808
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:33,080
And a lot of people really appreciated that.

809
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,600
And myself included, I was subscribed to him for a long time.

810
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:37,600
And not just people in North Carolina, but people from across the country.

811
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:42,440
I would see them in the comments section like, thank you from Idaho or whatever for doing

812
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:43,440
this.

813
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:44,440
I like seeing this approach.

814
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,400
I'm a Republican, but this guy speaks.

815
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:48,400
I can respect him.

816
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:49,400
Those kinds of things.

817
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:50,800
You'd see those comments on every single video.

818
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:57,680
And so for him to have made himself known on that level to that larger audience via

819
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:03,080
TikTok and then vote against it, I can see why people are ready to crucify him.

820
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:07,560
I see and can understand why people are so pissed.

821
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,320
It's like a giant, it seems like a giant middle finger.

822
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:11,320
It really does.

823
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,340
It's like, well, I'm going to use it, but ha ha, I voted for you to not be able to.

824
00:38:15,340 --> 00:38:18,360
It does seem very out of touch and very, I'm better than you.

825
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:19,720
I should have access to this.

826
00:38:19,720 --> 00:38:23,800
But like you said to me earlier, you're still an entire other part of Congress that voted

827
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:24,800
for this.

828
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,800
They also deserve to be held accountable.

829
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,120
Yeah, they absolutely deserve to be held accountable.

830
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,400
But here's the other thing.

831
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:35,480
Do we provoke and criticize our congressmen based on their social media following?

832
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,860
Because I think that that's a big problem because then it just kind of incentivizes

833
00:38:38,860 --> 00:38:41,640
them to lay even lower than they already do.

834
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,360
A lot of the lesson that I think that many of these politicians probably got out of the

835
00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:51,640
Jeff Jackson porching was, oh, okay, well, not doing that anymore.

836
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:56,240
Like I'm not going to make videos of me like talking about what I did this week in Congress.

837
00:38:56,240 --> 00:38:57,560
And he still did that to his credit.

838
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,720
I mean, he let the steam or he let the smoke clear a little bit before he got back to it,

839
00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:02,960
but he eventually did get back to it.

840
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,360
And I would still see comments, you know, praising and supporting him.

841
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,240
But I would also continue to see comments saying, yeah, well, what platform are you

842
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:10,240
using, Jeff?

843
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:11,240
Here's the thing.

844
00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:17,160
You're going to send that exact same video to every major video site, Facebook, Instagram,

845
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:18,160
all these different places.

846
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:23,680
Am I defending his choice to delete the original video and then try to try to backpedal and

847
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:24,680
do all these things?

848
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,960
And then like people were making all these assertions that he's paid by certain invested

849
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,040
parties.

850
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:35,640
Here's the problem is that a lot of people, when you have your sights on the white whale,

851
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:37,840
you become Captain Ahab.

852
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:43,200
And we don't need a country of Captain Ahabs because you're missing and I'm mixing metaphors

853
00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,240
here, but you're missing the forest for the trees.

854
00:39:45,240 --> 00:39:46,240
Right.

855
00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:47,240
Jeff Jackson's one guy.

856
00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:48,560
He's a very high profile guy, like you said.

857
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:49,560
And you're right.

858
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:51,680
He did build his national status off of.

859
00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,520
I mean, there were people here in North Carolina who didn't know who he was.

860
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,760
So I don't think the efficacy of the argument that he got really popular on TikTok, therefore

861
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:03,440
he should be held to a higher standard is I don't think that works really, because they

862
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:04,840
should all be held to the same standard.

863
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:06,200
Yeah, no, they should.

864
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,680
But one person that I want to bring up is a progressive candidate or a progressive representative

865
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:15,640
out of California, Representative Ro Khanna, somebody that if you don't know, you should

866
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:16,640
know.

867
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:17,640
He's very influential.

868
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:23,280
He has been tapped multiple times to try and run against like before she died, Dianne

869
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:24,280
Feinstein.

870
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:25,320
He keeps saying no.

871
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,840
I think he is by many measures a decent guy.

872
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,880
I think he has a lot of iffy ideas sometimes, but he's also a Californian.

873
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,800
So you know, we forgive him for that.

874
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:38,800
Anyway, my point in bringing him up is that he voted no on the TikTok ban bill.

875
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:44,560
However, of Democrats, he is one of the highest recipients of money from Metta of any congressman,

876
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:49,480
like way above what Jeff Jackson and any of those other people who voted yes.

877
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,840
Now you could think about this one of two ways.

878
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,520
Oh, man, they really lowballed Jeff Jackson.

879
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,400
He really sold out for a pretty penny while Ro Khanna was getting the full buck.

880
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:59,880
But the way I see it is this.

881
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:03,040
A lot of these politicians and keep in mind, Jeff Jackson was a first term congressman.

882
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:06,560
A lot of these politicians who want to stay in for a long time, they learn to be very

883
00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:10,800
savvy and let their star rise when it needs to and stay under the radar when they need

884
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:11,800
to.

885
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,400
I think it is not just Ro Khanna, but I think that a lot of progressives, a lot of Democrats,

886
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:20,500
a lot of people on the left end of the on the left side of Congress made a tactical

887
00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:25,000
decision and decided to steer into the no category simply because they knew it was going

888
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:26,000
to pass.

889
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,360
They knew that the Republicans had the vote.

890
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:28,840
They knew that enough Democrats supported it.

891
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,180
So they just, you know, they're like, OK, well, I'm not going to get mixed up in this.

892
00:41:32,180 --> 00:41:33,860
They made that decision for a lot of them.

893
00:41:33,860 --> 00:41:36,520
I think that it was a moral imperative.

894
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,960
I think that they did agree that, hey, this is a violation of free speech, but they're

895
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:40,960
still politicians.

896
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,600
Like, let's never put that past these people, any of them, because when you start doing

897
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:49,680
that and you start vilifying them as one person missing the mass behind them that also voted

898
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:51,040
the same way, we have a problem.

899
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,280
We have a really, really big problem because Jeff Jackson is a lot more accessible online.

900
00:41:55,280 --> 00:41:57,600
You can go to any one of his videos right now and comment.

901
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:02,800
But I don't think that you're going to see the same vitriol and the same reaction for

902
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,120
a representative from Kansas.

903
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,360
I just don't think you're going to.

904
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:10,000
And you could argue, I think a lot of people would argue, that that's just because we expect

905
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,480
them to be monsters.

906
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:15,200
So when did we start fighting our allies and letting the monsters be monsters?

907
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,920
CJ's nodding his head like, oh, you got a point there.

908
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:24,600
But I mean, it's the same criticism that a lot of people gave to people who were protesting

909
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:31,960
the Israel Hamas war, the, like, I hesitate to say the G word, but the G side in Gaza.

910
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,000
A lot of people were criticizing them because they kept showing up to Democratic rallies

911
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,240
or Democratic speeches instead of going to Republican ones.

912
00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:41,520
And the argument from their side was, well, if we go there, we're just going to get shouted

913
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:42,700
down and kicked out anyway.

914
00:42:42,700 --> 00:42:43,840
People might actually listen here.

915
00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,760
But the story that it paints is that it doesn't matter what Republicans do.

916
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,740
We don't need to hold them accountable because we can't.

917
00:42:49,740 --> 00:42:52,720
We are physically unable or we are physically unable to do it.

918
00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:54,200
But we can hold Democrats accountable.

919
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,320
We can hold them to a much higher scrutiny than anybody else.

920
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,480
And I think that Jeff Jackson is just a symptom of that.

921
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:00,840
Or no, not a symptom.

922
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:01,840
I'm sorry.

923
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,680
I think Jeff Jackson's, the reaction to his vote is a microcosm of that.

924
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:09,520
That's where, and that's why I wanted to get into this with you today, CJ, because I think

925
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,400
that it really does speak to a larger problem.

926
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,640
We aren't really holding these people to the same standard.

927
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:21,080
There are 435 members of Congress, 100 Senate, or excuse me, 535 members of Congress.

928
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,560
There are 100 senators and 435 representatives.

929
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:27,440
Each one of them should be held to the same standard, regardless of party.

930
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:31,160
And if Republicans are going to have no shame, where does that leave us?

931
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:34,280
But I would love to hear a rebuttal.

932
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,800
No, I mean, I do agree that they should be held to the same standard.

933
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:42,880
All I'm saying is I do understand why people were pissed at Jeff Jackson.

934
00:43:42,880 --> 00:43:43,880
I get that.

935
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,560
And I completely get that perception of everything.

936
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:47,560
I really do.

937
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,720
And I do think that, you know, I think you can have hit on this.

938
00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:56,600
One thing that these types of battles, so to say, they're just they end up just being

939
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:57,600
distractions from a bigger picture.

940
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,640
So I say that they are not important because, you know, something like TikTok is a big money

941
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:03,320
maker for a lot of people.

942
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:04,320
Yeah.

943
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,080
Estimated something like 7 million jobs will be lost because of this.

944
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:13,240
There's more to this than just one guy, like being mad at a guy, or one bill even.

945
00:44:13,240 --> 00:44:14,240
Yeah.

946
00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:18,480
So with this whole thing, in the end, there is more to it than just one guy, one vote,

947
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:19,480
one bill and whatnot.

948
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,560
You know, it is important to realize that, you know, everyone voted the way they did

949
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,160
and that because of that vote, there is there are going to be some consequences to it.

950
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:31,440
You know, there are around 7 million jobs that could be affected by this.

951
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:35,640
I mean, we only thing we have to do is you look towards India.

952
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:37,440
They haven't picked up there actually.

953
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:42,400
And there are a bunch of jobs that, you know, were lost because of that.

954
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:45,320
There are a lot of businesses that just completely disappeared and the ones that were able to

955
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:50,600
take around a very hard time rebuilding their audience and finding their customer base again.

956
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:51,600
Yeah.

957
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:54,800
I will be personally affected by this as well.

958
00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,480
I have a side channel where I do political content and that was my money maker for that

959
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:00,480
content.

960
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,320
You know, it was a decent little side gig.

961
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:03,920
Not enough to live on, but it was something.

962
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,320
For some people, it has been enough to live on, like as a full time thing.

963
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:08,320
Oh yeah.

964
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,640
You know, I'm a big like movie buff, right?

965
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:15,920
And so there were a bunch of like movie channels, pages, whatever that I would follow.

966
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,560
And they get a good amount of the share of the ad revenue that comes through TikTok.

967
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:20,560
Yeah.

968
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,600
I mean, I unfollowed him at one point.

969
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:25,400
One of the first people I followed on there was a guy named Straw Hat Doofy.

970
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,920
I knew exactly who you were going to say.

971
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:32,760
Did you unfollow him before or after the writer's strike?

972
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,120
After the writer's strike, like during it because of the stance.

973
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:40,600
Anyway, I figured a solidarity with the writers anyway.

974
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,720
But I don't like scabs.

975
00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:43,720
Whatever.

976
00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:44,720
Anyway, you shouldn't.

977
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:45,720
Nobody does.

978
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:46,720
That's why we pick them off.

979
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:47,720
Exactly.

980
00:45:47,720 --> 00:45:49,280
But he was one of the first people I followed on there.

981
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,160
And I remember whenever I first started following him, I forget what he was doing.

982
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:53,160
Maybe he was like.

983
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:54,160
Did like anime reviews and stuff.

984
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:55,160
Yeah.

985
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:58,400
Well, his main job is your real world job, so to say.

986
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:59,400
Oh, I don't know.

987
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,000
Maybe he was working for Disney or something.

988
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,000
I don't remember.

989
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:09,400
But he was able to quit and dedicate all his energy to that channel after some point because

990
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,960
he was able to get enough viewers, make enough content.

991
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,480
Eventually, he was able to be on the red carpet.

992
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:19,240
And I remember going to the movies a couple of times and all the pre-show stuff was him

993
00:46:19,240 --> 00:46:21,000
and Maria Menounos and all these people.

994
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,000
Sure.

995
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:23,000
And so that's a guy who's out of a job.

996
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:27,200
And then another movie person, J. Stoob, they did content together a lot.

997
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:28,200
She's out of a job.

998
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,320
Now, these people have like the big creators have YouTube channels and Instagrams and all

999
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:33,320
this stuff.

1000
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:34,320
But it's not quite the same.

1001
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:35,320
Exactly.

1002
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:36,320
Exactly.

1003
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:37,320
That interaction isn't the same.

1004
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,320
Because you could just get on your phone and make a video real quick.

1005
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:40,320
Exactly.

1006
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:43,400
I mean, YouTube, there's a bit of a higher standard when it comes to the content that

1007
00:46:43,400 --> 00:46:44,400
you have to make.

1008
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:45,400
Yeah.

1009
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,880
I mean, hell, one of the last videos we had on the TikTok for this podcast was a video

1010
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,560
I made in like five minutes just pulled off in a parking spot.

1011
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:54,560
Sitting in your car.

1012
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:55,560
Yeah.

1013
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:56,560
It's classic TikTok.

1014
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:57,560
Yeah, exactly.

1015
00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:58,560
It's like, I've got some shit to say.

1016
00:46:58,560 --> 00:46:59,560
Yeah.

1017
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,160
Throws down the phone on the dashboard, starts yapping.

1018
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:03,120
Honestly, God, that's what it was.

1019
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:04,120
I was just thinking about it.

1020
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:05,120
I was just pissed.

1021
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:06,120
I'm like, OK.

1022
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:10,640
But I think it was interesting, too, that we got some messages from people that knew

1023
00:47:10,640 --> 00:47:16,040
you or people that knew just about North Carolina politics and knew kind of what was going on.

1024
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,280
We talked a little bit about it in our last episodes.

1025
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,640
Just for a little bit, we talked about the Riggs versus Griffin case going on.

1026
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,680
It was a minor thing going on right now.

1027
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,120
But people, it resonates.

1028
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:30,800
And your For You page can be local, depending on how well you curate it, I guess.

1029
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:35,680
But you make a great point that people's stars, like Jeff Jackson, were able to rise because

1030
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:36,800
of this platform.

1031
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,640
And that's not just because, like, everybody was following them or whatever.

1032
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,920
It's because people liked the niche.

1033
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,880
And I think that TikTok proves that there is a following out there for everybody.

1034
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,160
And TikTok was better at finding it for you.

1035
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:51,160
Oh, yeah.

1036
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:52,160
Most definitely.

1037
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:57,440
I don't know about you, but most other social media sites are not great at finding my niche,

1038
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,680
are not great at connecting people.

1039
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:04,160
I have struggled to get followers anywhere else besides TikTok.

1040
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:05,160
Yeah.

1041
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:13,000
And I think one thing that I do hate about this platform going away is it allowed us

1042
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,600
to see perspectives and allowed us exposure to things we might not have been able to see

1043
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:20,240
otherwise.

1044
00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:25,400
Just as an example, going back to when all the protests about the Israel-Palestinian

1045
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:30,240
war and all that stuff was going on, all these protests on campuses, we were able to see

1046
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:34,960
firsthand accounts from people who were in the camps, in the protest camps.

1047
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,240
What they were saying, what they were experiencing, we wouldn't be able to, we might not necessarily

1048
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:40,240
be able to see that just watching the news on TV.

1049
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:41,320
No, because it's all edited.

1050
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,160
It's all heavily digestible.

1051
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:44,160
Right?

1052
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:45,160
Yeah.

1053
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:50,200
And that's the problem is that we are now in an age where if a content source is too

1054
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:55,000
easily accessible, we run the risk of it being called a propaganda machine.

1055
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:56,000
Right?

1056
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,800
But here's another problem.

1057
00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:01,240
And I heard a senator say this today that, well, we had to ban it.

1058
00:49:01,240 --> 00:49:02,880
It's the best source of propaganda there is.

1059
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,800
Something to that effect, basically saying that it's propaganda and that's why we need

1060
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:06,800
to ban it.

1061
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:08,880
Propaganda is protected by the First Amendment.

1062
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:10,080
It's been upheld in the Supreme Court.

1063
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,040
I was listening to NPR thinking about that this morning.

1064
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:14,040
Yeah.

1065
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:15,040
I don't really listen to NPR.

1066
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:18,200
So I'm glad that that lined up, but I'm glad that they're also talking about this because

1067
00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:21,920
the fact that there are a number of people who seem to think that propaganda is a type

1068
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:26,540
of speech that should be banned really need to understand what the First Amendment actually

1069
00:49:26,540 --> 00:49:33,320
protects and why John Adams is still one of my least favorite presidents from the revolutionary

1070
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:34,320
age.

1071
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:38,800
Because the man was like, if you talk bad about me, we're going to bring the hammer

1072
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:39,800
down on you.

1073
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,800
You can't talk about the president or the government in a negative way.

1074
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,920
Look up the Alien and Sedition Acts.

1075
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:45,920
Guess what?

1076
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:47,140
Unconstitutional.

1077
00:49:47,140 --> 00:49:52,000
Because you cannot limit somebody's speech based on your criticism or misdirection about

1078
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,120
truths about the government.

1079
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:55,120
Propaganda is protected speech.

1080
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,400
I mean, period, end of sentence.

1081
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:02,680
Side note, the John Adams miniseries with Baldy Imani on HBO, incredible.

1082
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:03,680
Love everything about it.

1083
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,480
Love the way it's shot, written, acted.

1084
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:06,480
Oh my God.

1085
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:11,520
Official Left of Old North recommendation to watch the John Adams HBO miniseries.

1086
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:12,520
Yes.

1087
00:50:12,520 --> 00:50:16,920
It's the same director who did Les Mis and Cats, although maybe that's not exactly high

1088
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:17,920
praise.

1089
00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:18,920
I was going to say, you could have left out Cats.

1090
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:19,920
I think there is.

1091
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:25,640
I'm convinced that Cats is like the last thing that happened before COVID really became a

1092
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:26,640
thing in America.

1093
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:27,640
Yeah.

1094
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:28,640
I fully blame COVID on Cats.

1095
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:29,640
Anyway.

1096
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:31,640
You blame COVID on Cats.

1097
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:36,440
See, I blame Cats on COVID.

1098
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,560
You think that it was because of the Cats that we have COVID.

1099
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,200
I think that everybody just lost the frickin' minds and decided, you know what, let's release

1100
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:44,200
this movie.

1101
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:45,200
It looks fine.

1102
00:50:45,200 --> 00:50:48,280
No, because it came out I think December 2019.

1103
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:49,280
Damn it.

1104
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:50,280
Well, anyway.

1105
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:57,040
So we've hit off on some interesting tangents here on Left of Old North.

1106
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,040
Yeah, December 2019.

1107
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:00,040
Anyway.

1108
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,040
Damn it.

1109
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,600
So we did go off on some interesting tangents tonight.

1110
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:09,480
Look, and we're way over time as I'm looking at here on the clock.

1111
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,000
I guess we'll have to get to Wiley-Nicoll some other time.

1112
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:13,000
Because maybe.

1113
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:14,000
Yeah.

1114
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:15,000
We'll see.

1115
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,000
Maybe next episode.

1116
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:17,000
Maybe.

1117
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,640
I think we'll record Trump will be present for about a week and God knows what will have

1118
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:25,440
happened, which I will say, let me just take a moment for a hop off of here.

1119
00:51:25,440 --> 00:51:30,400
Trump has talked about in his first couple of days, there was shock in all campaign of

1120
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:32,200
executive orders and whatnot.

1121
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:38,100
You know, there's, it's been leaked, although it'll probably be canceled or redone somehow.

1122
00:51:38,100 --> 00:51:43,560
There has been leaks of plans to have mass deportations out of Chicago and Illinois this

1123
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:44,560
week.

1124
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:49,200
So no matter what happens, one, stay engaged and stay informed.

1125
00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:53,920
You know, the best way we can fight back against this is with knowledge of what's happening

1126
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:55,840
and knowledge of how to fight back against it.

1127
00:51:55,840 --> 00:52:00,720
So stay informed, stay in tune, but also take care of yourself and take care of those around

1128
00:52:00,720 --> 00:52:01,720
you.

1129
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:02,720
Yeah.

1130
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:07,720
It's going to be a tough four years for everyone, especially if you are someone who is in a

1131
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:12,120
minority group who can be and will be targeted by the Trump administration.

1132
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:17,000
It's going to be a very hard time, but just know that even if it feels like you don't

1133
00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,600
have any support from those around you, there are still people out there who are fighting

1134
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:22,840
for you, who want you to be okay.

1135
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:27,080
Anyway, happy little day to end on, I guess.

1136
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:28,080
Well said.

1137
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:29,860
Happy inauguration day, everybody.

1138
00:52:29,860 --> 00:52:33,560
Happy official end of neoliberal America.

1139
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:39,280
We're about to see some weird new generation of that.

1140
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:44,600
We've got the tech bros, the Bitcoin bros on full blast, behind their main man, Don

1141
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:46,040
Old Trump.

1142
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,160
So strap in folks.

1143
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,640
And while you're strapped in, make sure that you're staying over here on the left of Old

1144
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:52,640
North.

1145
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:53,640
We are on Blue Sky.

1146
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:54,640
We are unfortunately on Twitter.

1147
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:55,640
We are on YouTube.

1148
00:52:55,640 --> 00:53:01,320
We are available where you can get all of your podcasts, mostly Apple and Spotify.

1149
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:02,920
I know I listen to Spotify.

1150
00:53:02,920 --> 00:53:03,920
I don't know if you listen to Apple.

1151
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:04,920
No, I'm a Spotify guy.

1152
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:09,640
Okay, so we're not officially wrapping either one, but we got the metrics back.

1153
00:53:09,640 --> 00:53:12,160
And it seems like that's the most places that people are listening.

1154
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:17,800
So just make sure to keep listening and send us send us some suggestions for topics.

1155
00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:22,240
We'd love to hear some suggestions from y'all and like any anything to keep us from going

1156
00:53:22,240 --> 00:53:27,360
off on random tangents about Star Wars and thirst traps on TikTok.

1157
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:29,960
Look at our fifth episode.

1158
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:31,960
We'll rein it in at some point, folks.

1159
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:32,960
Maybe.

1160
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:33,960
Maybe.

1161
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:37,320
But for now, we'll talk about Wiley Nichol in 2026.

1162
00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,520
Stay safe, stay motivated and stay on the left of Old North.

1163
00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:41,520
Have a great day, everybody.

1164
00:53:41,520 --> 00:54:04,160
Bye.