WEBVTT 00:00:17.390 --> 00:00:20.230 Welcome to the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. I'm 00:00:20.230 --> 00:00:23.210 John, Father John Deere, and today I'd like to 00:00:23.210 --> 00:00:26.710 reflect with you on my new book, Universal Love, 00:00:26.989 --> 00:00:29.649 Surrendering to the God of Peace, which is just 00:00:29.649 --> 00:00:33.679 out from Orbis. This is the second podcast of 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:36.880 a two -part podcast project, and it's all part 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:40.700 of www .beatitudescenter .org, where you can 00:00:40.700 --> 00:00:43.719 find many other podcasts and Zoom programs on 00:00:43.719 --> 00:00:46.820 the nonviolence of Jesus and practicing nonviolence 00:00:46.820 --> 00:00:49.600 and working for a more just, more nonviolent 00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:53.359 world. So let's begin with a little prayer. So 00:00:53.359 --> 00:00:55.560 I invite you, wherever you are, just to take 00:00:55.560 --> 00:01:00.299 a deep breath and just to relax. and recenter 00:01:00.299 --> 00:01:03.740 yourself. And together, let's enter into the 00:01:03.740 --> 00:01:07.519 presence of the God of peace who loves you personally, 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:11.939 unconditionally, and infinitely, and everyone 00:01:11.939 --> 00:01:15.739 everywhere, too. Let's welcome the risen nonviolent 00:01:15.739 --> 00:01:18.659 Jesus here with us. Just take a moment to ask 00:01:18.659 --> 00:01:21.859 for whatever grace you need to follow the nonviolent 00:01:21.859 --> 00:01:31.189 Jesus more faithfully and to do God's will. God 00:01:31.189 --> 00:01:33.590 of peace, thank you for all the blessings of 00:01:33.590 --> 00:01:36.069 life, love, and peace that you give us. Be with 00:01:36.069 --> 00:01:39.670 us now as we reflect on your call to follow the 00:01:39.670 --> 00:01:43.810 nonviolent Jesus and to surrender our lives and 00:01:43.810 --> 00:01:47.700 our wills to you. and to work for a more nonviolent, 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:51.140 more just world. Bless us, inspire us, disarm 00:01:51.140 --> 00:01:54.140 us, strengthen us, and send us out to do your 00:01:54.140 --> 00:01:57.219 will, that we might do our part then to help 00:01:57.219 --> 00:02:01.659 end poverty, racism, greed, injustice, fascism, 00:02:01.739 --> 00:02:04.239 war, nuclear weapons, and environmental destruction, 00:02:04.459 --> 00:02:08.719 that we might be your holy peacemakers and welcome 00:02:08.719 --> 00:02:12.080 your reign of universal love and peace on earth. 00:02:12.300 --> 00:02:17.189 We ask this in Jesus' name. Amen. So thanks again, 00:02:17.289 --> 00:02:19.870 friends, for joining me. This is part two of 00:02:19.870 --> 00:02:23.050 a two -part podcast on my new book, which is 00:02:23.050 --> 00:02:25.870 called Universal Love, Surrendering to the God 00:02:25.870 --> 00:02:28.770 of Peace, which I invite you to get at orbisbooks 00:02:28.770 --> 00:02:32.009 .com or your local bookstore, wherever you get 00:02:32.009 --> 00:02:35.449 books. In the first podcast and first episode, 00:02:35.729 --> 00:02:39.090 I was telling you how this journey began, the 00:02:39.090 --> 00:02:42.009 beginning of the pandemic, when the kid who taught 00:02:42.009 --> 00:02:45.310 my gym class, whom I call Will, Asked me to be 00:02:45.310 --> 00:02:48.889 his guru, he said. And I started teaching him 00:02:48.889 --> 00:02:52.110 about meditation. And he started calling God 00:02:52.110 --> 00:02:55.530 universal love. And then the next thing you know, 00:02:55.650 --> 00:02:59.229 universal love showed up to him one day and overwhelmed 00:02:59.229 --> 00:03:02.389 him. And he came and told me that he felt he 00:03:02.389 --> 00:03:04.750 was called to become an extension of universal 00:03:04.750 --> 00:03:08.129 love. And so for many years now, since the lockdown, 00:03:08.449 --> 00:03:14.289 we've been discussing this. We were also doing 00:03:14.289 --> 00:03:17.250 writing practice together on all these spiritual 00:03:17.250 --> 00:03:19.610 themes, and I didn't know it, but they became 00:03:19.610 --> 00:03:22.370 this book. So in the first part of the book, 00:03:22.509 --> 00:03:25.210 I reflect on the importance of daily meditation, 00:03:25.669 --> 00:03:29.169 letting go of control, living into an intimate 00:03:29.169 --> 00:03:32.210 trusting relationship with God, surrendering 00:03:32.210 --> 00:03:36.509 everything to God, and trying to do only God's 00:03:36.509 --> 00:03:40.400 will from now on, not our will. So today I'd 00:03:40.400 --> 00:03:42.860 like to share with you part two and part three, 00:03:42.919 --> 00:03:45.979 the rest of the book. And part two is about the 00:03:45.979 --> 00:03:48.219 connection between surrendering our will to the 00:03:48.219 --> 00:03:51.819 God of universal love and how that surrendering 00:03:51.819 --> 00:03:56.099 is connected to nonviolence. And then the third 00:03:56.099 --> 00:04:00.319 part, part three, is how the life of surrender 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:04.930 to God and God's will has specific... I think, 00:04:04.930 --> 00:04:08.349 shocking political implications for universal 00:04:08.349 --> 00:04:11.270 love, peace, and nonviolence, which for me is 00:04:11.270 --> 00:04:16.050 the key to the book. So if you've read a lot 00:04:16.050 --> 00:04:20.449 in mystical writings and all, what I'm trying 00:04:20.449 --> 00:04:23.449 to do here, my own conceit, is to take off from 00:04:23.449 --> 00:04:27.430 the classics, such as Jean -Pierre de Coussade's 00:04:27.430 --> 00:04:30.850 famous book. from I think 300 years ago called 00:04:30.850 --> 00:04:33.930 Abandonment to Divine Providence, which millions 00:04:33.930 --> 00:04:38.009 of people have read. And I'm trying to unpack 00:04:38.009 --> 00:04:43.490 what his, among many great classics, these teachings 00:04:43.490 --> 00:04:46.689 of abandoning our lives and hearts and souls 00:04:46.689 --> 00:04:50.750 to God mean in a time of permanent warfare and 00:04:50.750 --> 00:04:55.079 extreme poverty. And white supremacy and fascism 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:57.759 and the very real threat of nuclear war and destruction 00:04:57.759 --> 00:05:00.980 and catastrophic climate change. And I'm trying 00:05:00.980 --> 00:05:03.060 to suggest that in the light of the life of the 00:05:03.060 --> 00:05:06.480 nonviolent Jesus, if we surrender ourselves to 00:05:06.480 --> 00:05:09.399 God and try to do only God's will from now on, 00:05:09.540 --> 00:05:11.560 like, what would that look like? I'm not going 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:14.160 to do my will anymore. That means we have to 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:18.879 step out of ourselves into the world. And take 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:21.500 nonviolent direct action like the nonviolent 00:05:21.500 --> 00:05:25.180 Jesus does. Through selfless service, nonviolent 00:05:25.180 --> 00:05:27.860 resistance to injustice, and the public work 00:05:27.860 --> 00:05:30.639 of welcoming God's reign of discernment and justice 00:05:30.639 --> 00:05:35.319 and peace. I think the problem here is we all 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:43.100 want the peace and comfort of God's love. But 00:05:43.100 --> 00:05:46.939 we don't necessarily want to get involved and 00:05:46.939 --> 00:05:51.259 do God's will, much less stand up in public and 00:05:51.259 --> 00:05:55.180 engage in the will of God as public peacemaking 00:05:55.180 --> 00:05:58.079 and nonviolent resistance and entering the fray 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:00.899 to insist on justice, disarmament, protecting 00:06:00.899 --> 00:06:03.860 creation, and so forth. In other words, the problem 00:06:03.860 --> 00:06:07.480 as I see it is no matter how much we all say 00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:12.439 we love God and want to follow Jesus, In fact, 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:16.240 we're all trying to control God and do our will, 00:06:16.319 --> 00:06:18.439 not God's will. I see that running through the 00:06:18.439 --> 00:06:21.639 Gospels, actually. That's what the male disciples 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:24.600 are always trying to do, control God and argue 00:06:24.600 --> 00:06:28.199 with Jesus about their will. And that's the problem 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:31.139 with every one of us and the whole human race 00:06:31.139 --> 00:06:33.600 and the whole world. And it's the point of my 00:06:33.600 --> 00:06:36.800 book. I'm trying to invite all of us to let go 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:41.839 of control and let God run our lives. Surrender 00:06:41.839 --> 00:06:45.500 ourselves to God's will, which is universal love, 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:49.259 universal compassion, universal peace, and therefore 00:06:49.259 --> 00:06:53.879 universal nonviolence. To let God do with us 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:58.360 what God will. And we get to enjoy the ride and 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:03.040 become, as my young friend said, extensions of 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:07.480 universal love and peace. That we then welcome 00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:10.620 God's will and God's... reign of love and peace 00:07:10.620 --> 00:07:14.800 on earth, with all its glorious social, economic, 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:18.060 and political implications, come what may, no 00:07:18.060 --> 00:07:22.079 matter what the cost, it all sounds good to us. 00:07:22.519 --> 00:07:27.819 So early on, I'm saying to young Will, you know, 00:07:27.860 --> 00:07:30.740 about the importance of meditation, and I'm also 00:07:30.740 --> 00:07:34.300 trying to talk with him about nonviolence. And 00:07:34.300 --> 00:07:38.350 shortly after we were meeting, He comes in one 00:07:38.350 --> 00:07:40.389 day and says, well, someone at his workplace 00:07:40.389 --> 00:07:44.149 put him down. And he immediately wanted to blow 00:07:44.149 --> 00:07:47.290 up at that person. And he's raging inside. And 00:07:47.290 --> 00:07:50.009 he made a real sharp comment in response and 00:07:50.009 --> 00:07:52.709 turned and walked away. And later he regretted 00:07:52.709 --> 00:07:55.550 it and felt bad and says to me, what should I 00:07:55.550 --> 00:07:58.629 have done? How do I keep from getting mad and 00:07:58.629 --> 00:08:01.850 snapping at someone even if someone puts me down? 00:08:01.990 --> 00:08:05.980 So I say. well, what happened in your meditation 00:08:05.980 --> 00:08:08.740 that morning with universal love? Did you meditate? 00:08:09.240 --> 00:08:14.540 And he said, no, I forgot. And I don't know. 00:08:14.579 --> 00:08:17.160 I said, I don't know if it's possible to be loving, 00:08:17.259 --> 00:08:22.149 peaceful, just, and nonviolent on our own. I 00:08:22.149 --> 00:08:24.129 think we need to meditate and surrender ourselves 00:08:24.129 --> 00:08:27.569 to the God of universal love every day, every 00:08:27.569 --> 00:08:30.009 morning, as if for the first time, as if we'd 00:08:30.009 --> 00:08:32.149 never done it before, as if our lives depend 00:08:32.149 --> 00:08:34.970 on it, and then throughout the day, and also 00:08:34.970 --> 00:08:37.830 find a community of seekers, friends, peacemakers, 00:08:37.929 --> 00:08:41.389 churchgoers to support us and to share that journey 00:08:41.389 --> 00:08:44.830 of total surrender to God with all its interpersonal 00:08:44.830 --> 00:08:48.649 and national and global political consequences 00:08:48.649 --> 00:08:51.690 and implications. If we meditate... every day 00:08:51.690 --> 00:08:54.870 and return to our relationship with universal 00:08:54.870 --> 00:08:57.470 love and center ourselves in God and universal 00:08:57.470 --> 00:09:01.149 love and really give our lives over to God and 00:09:01.149 --> 00:09:04.269 universal love. We will keep remembering universal 00:09:04.269 --> 00:09:08.789 love because we all suffer from amnesia and reignite 00:09:08.789 --> 00:09:11.450 the desire to be an extension of universal love 00:09:11.450 --> 00:09:14.710 and then be open more and more to God, to universal 00:09:14.710 --> 00:09:18.240 love. Or at least we'll be a little bit more 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:21.259 grounded in universal love, which means we might 00:09:21.259 --> 00:09:24.620 have a little bit more awareness of other nonviolent 00:09:24.620 --> 00:09:28.559 ways to respond when we get triggered and provoked. 00:09:29.340 --> 00:09:32.620 Even if that means going back and apologizing 00:09:32.620 --> 00:09:35.179 to the person we snapped at. So if we surrender 00:09:35.179 --> 00:09:37.559 ourselves in the encounter with universal love, 00:09:37.740 --> 00:09:41.440 I think universal love, part of the process of 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:45.940 life. which is the same as the spiritual life, 00:09:46.059 --> 00:09:50.600 I call it life, not the spiritual life, is that 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:54.179 universal love disarms us and heals us and fills 00:09:54.179 --> 00:09:57.700 us with life, the Spirit of God, which makes 00:09:57.700 --> 00:10:00.120 us more compassionate, more loving, more present, 00:10:00.259 --> 00:10:03.620 more mindful, more nonviolent to ourselves and 00:10:03.620 --> 00:10:05.600 others. Because in the process, we're letting 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:08.860 God lead us through our day. So you could say, 00:10:08.940 --> 00:10:12.129 for example, will I meditate? I pray. I see God 00:10:12.129 --> 00:10:15.929 every day. But I still want to explode when someone 00:10:15.929 --> 00:10:18.649 steps on my toes or pushes my buttons. And again, 00:10:18.710 --> 00:10:22.509 that's the point of my book. I'm always interested 00:10:22.509 --> 00:10:25.409 in the lessons of nonviolence and the plea of 00:10:25.409 --> 00:10:28.669 the nonviolent Jesus and what I'm learning at 00:10:28.669 --> 00:10:32.309 this ripe old age. Unless we are surrendering 00:10:32.309 --> 00:10:35.470 ourselves completely to God's will over and over 00:10:35.470 --> 00:10:39.710 again, we're going to be stuck in our own self 00:10:39.710 --> 00:10:45.690 -will, which means selfishness, ego, dare I say 00:10:45.690 --> 00:10:49.409 stupidity. And that can only lead to problems, 00:10:49.629 --> 00:10:53.850 whether remaining stuck in resentment or anger. 00:10:54.360 --> 00:10:57.759 or fear, or anxiety, or worry, or whatever our 00:10:57.759 --> 00:11:01.120 issues are, and chasing our own egos. And that 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:05.519 always leads to, we want money, pride, attention, 00:11:06.000 --> 00:11:08.919 career. We're relying on ourselves. Next thing 00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:10.919 you know, we're relying on our bank accounts, 00:11:11.100 --> 00:11:14.220 and our weapons, and our nation, and our military, 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:17.779 and our wars, and we're descending quickly into 00:11:17.779 --> 00:11:21.500 a hell of our own making. Mahatma Gandhi. And 00:11:21.500 --> 00:11:24.019 Martin Luther King, among others, practiced a 00:11:24.019 --> 00:11:28.970 profound inner serenity to God. And I think that 00:11:28.970 --> 00:11:32.190 was the key to their total nonviolence. It has 00:11:32.190 --> 00:11:35.610 to become the bottom line practice for us if 00:11:35.610 --> 00:11:39.269 we, too, want to deepen in gospel nonviolence, 00:11:39.309 --> 00:11:42.570 especially at this moment in history which we're 00:11:42.570 --> 00:11:44.629 asked to live in as our country and the world 00:11:44.629 --> 00:11:47.250 are collapsing around us, as we're witnessing 00:11:47.250 --> 00:11:50.730 the end of the American empire and all hell breaking 00:11:50.730 --> 00:11:53.190 loose and the rush toward nuclear destruction 00:11:53.190 --> 00:11:57.179 and climate change. Gandhi wrote that God's will 00:11:57.179 --> 00:11:59.139 for the entire human race is that we practice 00:11:59.139 --> 00:12:02.500 nonviolence. That's quite a statement to make. 00:12:02.659 --> 00:12:05.899 And that if we try to do only God's will and 00:12:05.899 --> 00:12:10.419 not our will, and that's our intention every 00:12:10.419 --> 00:12:14.419 minute. of every day, we will never harm another 00:12:14.419 --> 00:12:17.600 person in thought, word, or deed, much less hurt 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:20.740 someone, much less kill someone, much less support 00:12:20.740 --> 00:12:24.360 war, join the military, have a gun, build nuclear 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:27.659 weapons, or sit by passively while our sisters 00:12:27.659 --> 00:12:30.340 and brothers are being killed around the planet. 00:12:31.019 --> 00:12:33.440 and we destroy the creatures and Mother Earth. 00:12:33.639 --> 00:12:36.759 The goal, I said to young Will, my friend, is 00:12:36.759 --> 00:12:39.960 to try to become totally nonviolent through our 00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:42.919 daily surrender to the universal love, to the 00:12:42.919 --> 00:12:46.340 God of nonviolence, through meditation and study 00:12:46.340 --> 00:12:50.700 and practice, so that the day will come, as we're 00:12:50.700 --> 00:12:54.100 living into universal love, where we respond 00:12:54.100 --> 00:12:57.379 instinctively with nonviolence, no matter what 00:12:57.379 --> 00:13:00.750 happens. I think that's doable. and possible. 00:13:00.909 --> 00:13:02.730 I think that's the lesson of the Sermon on the 00:13:02.730 --> 00:13:06.029 Mount and Gandhi and Dorothy Day and Dr. King's, 00:13:06.129 --> 00:13:12.250 that when you truly are on the journey of becoming 00:13:12.250 --> 00:13:15.649 an extension of universal love, a peacemaker, 00:13:15.870 --> 00:13:21.750 you can move into total nonviolence, at least 00:13:21.750 --> 00:13:26.029 more and more, way farther in progress than we 00:13:26.029 --> 00:13:29.370 are now. But it helps if you spend quality time 00:13:29.370 --> 00:13:31.629 with your God every day and surrender yourself 00:13:31.629 --> 00:13:35.590 to God regularly. Some of us have to do it hourly, 00:13:35.850 --> 00:13:39.139 every 15 minutes, every minute. And so you're 00:13:39.139 --> 00:13:41.460 constantly being disarmed and re -centered in 00:13:41.460 --> 00:13:44.840 God's love. Without that consistent daily practice, 00:13:44.940 --> 00:13:47.279 it's easy to get lost in our own self -centeredness 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:49.720 and ego. And the next thing you know, we're off 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:52.200 doing what we think. And the minute then someone 00:13:52.200 --> 00:13:55.440 does not treat us as we expect or demand or go 00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:58.720 our way, we get triggered or annoyed or frustrated 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.200 or impatient or resentful. I have a long list 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:04.460 here. Afraid, angry, violent. This is all these 00:14:04.460 --> 00:14:07.419 things happen to me. we regress to our inner 00:14:07.419 --> 00:14:10.980 teenager and snap at someone. Or if you're like 00:14:10.980 --> 00:14:13.039 me, to your inner three -year -old, and you just 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:17.080 have a temper tantrum. In this case, I said to 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:20.220 young Will, well, you might have taken a deep 00:14:20.220 --> 00:14:23.019 breath and said something like, I feel hurt by 00:14:23.019 --> 00:14:26.600 those words. In other words, use nonviolent communication, 00:14:26.700 --> 00:14:29.200 or it's sometimes called mindful communication, 00:14:29.500 --> 00:14:32.750 which uses eye language to help. Others know 00:14:32.750 --> 00:14:35.990 how you feel and what you need instead of pointing 00:14:35.990 --> 00:14:38.590 the finger of blame at others saying things like, 00:14:38.610 --> 00:14:41.769 you did this to me. You're to blame. It's your 00:14:41.769 --> 00:14:44.610 fault. You're the problem, which is responding 00:14:44.610 --> 00:14:46.750 with anger and judgment and violence. And then 00:14:46.750 --> 00:14:49.490 we walk away and that doesn't resolve the incident. 00:14:49.570 --> 00:14:52.049 It only makes it worse. And you end up feeling 00:14:52.049 --> 00:14:55.210 ashamed and guilty. And we want to avoid guilt 00:14:55.210 --> 00:14:57.830 and shame. So I was saying to young Will, we 00:14:57.830 --> 00:15:00.899 want to try to not respond with. the same harmful 00:15:00.899 --> 00:15:04.299 spirit or use hurtful words or the tone that's 00:15:04.299 --> 00:15:06.620 used against you. But we really don't want to 00:15:06.620 --> 00:15:11.720 walk away passively either. So we want to stand 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:14.679 and engage in a spirit of nonviolence and love 00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:17.700 and compassion. And I think the wisdom is to 00:15:17.700 --> 00:15:20.879 share how it has affected you if you can. And 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:22.659 maybe you will discover that the person didn't 00:15:22.659 --> 00:15:24.919 mean to hurt you, but meant something else entirely. 00:15:26.090 --> 00:15:29.250 But no matter where you are as you pray through 00:15:29.250 --> 00:15:33.009 these moments, which are all practices for bigger 00:15:33.009 --> 00:15:37.230 moments to come down the road, right? Right there 00:15:37.230 --> 00:15:39.690 on the spot, you pray for the person who's hurt 00:15:39.690 --> 00:15:44.210 you. You forgive the person in your heart, and 00:15:44.210 --> 00:15:47.769 you offer a blessing upon that person. Every 00:15:47.769 --> 00:15:50.750 human being has to learn the art of blessing 00:15:50.750 --> 00:15:53.409 other people, beginning with blessing people 00:15:53.409 --> 00:15:55.690 in our families. This has to become the new normal 00:15:55.690 --> 00:15:59.450 of our daily life. We want to go through life 00:15:59.450 --> 00:16:03.309 praying for others and blessing everyone we meet. 00:16:04.350 --> 00:16:07.269 And we want to figure out creative, nonviolent, 00:16:07.269 --> 00:16:10.909 alternative responses that help us maintain our 00:16:10.909 --> 00:16:14.409 peace and help others to reclaim their peace 00:16:14.409 --> 00:16:18.029 or to maintain their peace. Like the old days 00:16:18.029 --> 00:16:24.190 would say, we don't lead others into sin. And 00:16:24.190 --> 00:16:26.850 that's how then more and more God's peace will 00:16:26.850 --> 00:16:30.149 spread and will help be part of disarming one 00:16:30.149 --> 00:16:32.870 another. So we need to practice this every hour 00:16:32.870 --> 00:16:36.289 in our daily lives, whether we're on the grocery 00:16:36.289 --> 00:16:39.870 line or the picket line, always trying to be 00:16:39.870 --> 00:16:44.440 centered, surrendered, and nonviolent. And happily, 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:46.600 a few weeks later, Will came back and announced 00:16:46.600 --> 00:16:49.220 that someone else had snubbed him at work. And 00:16:49.220 --> 00:16:51.320 this time, instead of barking at the person, 00:16:51.440 --> 00:16:56.559 he talked very reasonably. in a calm, peaceful 00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.240 voice. He was really centered, and he felt much 00:17:00.240 --> 00:17:02.419 better afterwards. And he said, and I quote, 00:17:02.980 --> 00:17:06.059 it works if I stay centered in my breath and 00:17:06.059 --> 00:17:09.819 peaceful and calm. I found I'm better able to 00:17:09.819 --> 00:17:12.819 respond like this when I've begun my day in quiet 00:17:12.819 --> 00:17:16.500 meditation with universal love. And being the 00:17:16.500 --> 00:17:22.059 wise elder, I said to him, I told you so. And 00:17:22.059 --> 00:17:24.039 that's when he rolled his eyes, of course. Yeah, 00:17:24.099 --> 00:17:27.220 so. Part two of my book, just trying to make 00:17:27.220 --> 00:17:29.799 everyone smile. It's not working. I can tell 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:34.720 already. I explore all these themes. Nonviolence 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:37.380 is remembering who we are, looking deeply within 00:17:37.380 --> 00:17:40.980 into our own violence, trying to be nonviolent 00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:44.019 to ourselves, confessing and apologize for the 00:17:44.019 --> 00:17:47.339 harm we've done to others, constantly forgiving 00:17:47.339 --> 00:17:51.079 everyone who ever hurt us. The practice of living 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:53.640 every moment in the presence of the God of peace. 00:17:53.980 --> 00:17:58.480 And this combination of radical letting go, but 00:17:58.480 --> 00:18:03.059 also radical acceptance. And then also befriending 00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:06.740 our fears and surrendering them to God. This 00:18:06.740 --> 00:18:09.059 section then leads to part three of the book 00:18:09.059 --> 00:18:12.019 where I explore the political consequences and 00:18:12.019 --> 00:18:14.500 implications of surrendering our lives to God 00:18:14.500 --> 00:18:16.980 and doing only God's will and trying to become 00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:19.779 extensions of universal love, as Young Will first 00:18:19.779 --> 00:18:23.559 said to me. So if we're going to do God's will 00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:28.720 and we're not going to do our will, and if God 00:18:28.720 --> 00:18:31.680 is universal love, universal compassion, universal 00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:35.609 peace, and therefore universal nonviolence, then 00:18:35.609 --> 00:18:38.670 if we're only doing God's will, we will become, 00:18:38.769 --> 00:18:41.809 theoretically, extensions of universal love, 00:18:41.970 --> 00:18:45.210 compassion, peace, and nonviolence. Which means 00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:50.869 what? Our lives are given over entirely now, 00:18:51.049 --> 00:18:55.509 like the nonviolent Jesus, to serving, healing, 00:18:55.609 --> 00:18:58.589 and helping humanity and creation, beginning 00:18:58.589 --> 00:19:02.329 with their neighbors around us. We do not serve 00:19:02.329 --> 00:19:07.710 ourselves. or seek our own selfish will, or try 00:19:07.710 --> 00:19:10.890 to get God to do what we want. Those days are 00:19:10.890 --> 00:19:14.829 over. Nor do we do the will of anyone else, such 00:19:14.829 --> 00:19:18.890 as the president, or some general, or the nation, 00:19:19.049 --> 00:19:22.890 or some other idol. Those days are over. We serve 00:19:22.890 --> 00:19:25.089 humanity, starting with the poor and marginalized 00:19:25.089 --> 00:19:28.609 enemies of our nation, as Jesus says, as he showed 00:19:28.609 --> 00:19:33.339 in doing only the will of God. And we engage 00:19:33.339 --> 00:19:35.940 in nonviolent resistance to all structures of 00:19:35.940 --> 00:19:39.500 violence, to all our nation's wars and weapons 00:19:39.500 --> 00:19:42.279 and corporate greed and systemic injustice and 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:45.200 racism and fascism, environmental destruction, 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:49.599 because we're trying to do the will of God to 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:52.240 be extensions of universal love, and therefore 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:55.000 we're always trying to welcome God's reign of 00:19:55.000 --> 00:19:57.440 universal love, compassion, justice, and peace 00:19:57.440 --> 00:20:01.460 here on earth. We are servants of humanity and 00:20:01.460 --> 00:20:05.920 creation, pure and simple, as we serve our God, 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:09.480 the Creator. Not only do we do no harm, but we 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:13.680 seek to only do good. And that's going to have 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:18.039 to mean stepping up and trying to stop the harm 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:20.920 and suffering that we're afflicting our nation 00:20:20.920 --> 00:20:24.339 and others are afflicting on others. We not only 00:20:24.339 --> 00:20:27.140 live and let live, but we live and help live. 00:20:29.579 --> 00:20:34.920 a little story on the side and thinking vividly 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:39.359 about a long evening conversation I had 35 years 00:20:39.359 --> 00:20:42.400 ago with Cesar Chavez, founder of the United 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:45.859 Farm Workers, one of the great heroes of nonviolence. 00:20:45.859 --> 00:20:48.660 We were talking about nonviolence and he said 00:20:48.660 --> 00:20:51.859 all of that to me. I never heard anybody say 00:20:51.859 --> 00:20:55.019 that to me before. He told me that every morning, 00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:59.319 He climbed a hill near his house near Bakersfield 00:20:59.319 --> 00:21:04.400 at dawn and meditated for an hour. And then from 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.400 then on, he just did whatever people wanted of 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:11.140 him, beginning with the poorest of the poor. 00:21:11.380 --> 00:21:14.500 And he told me his life was no longer his own. 00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:17.819 He had become a slave of the farm workers. And 00:21:17.819 --> 00:21:20.619 he said if someone needed him at 3 a .m., he 00:21:20.619 --> 00:21:25.339 got up and did what was needed. He was very serious 00:21:25.339 --> 00:21:27.819 about that, actually went and made a private 00:21:27.819 --> 00:21:31.880 little pilgrimage by myself to that hill to see 00:21:31.880 --> 00:21:33.799 where he did that years later after he died. 00:21:34.000 --> 00:21:37.759 So in the third part of the book, Universal Love, 00:21:37.980 --> 00:21:44.579 I try to unpack some of those stories and lessons 00:21:44.579 --> 00:21:49.579 and people and my own experience as I shared 00:21:49.579 --> 00:21:52.700 with young Will about... Trying to live out the 00:21:52.700 --> 00:21:55.920 political implications of surrendering our lives 00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:59.240 to God and God's will of universal love and nonviolence. 00:21:59.900 --> 00:22:02.859 And so you can read that in the book. And some 00:22:02.859 --> 00:22:05.160 of you may have heard some of my stories in recent 00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:08.559 years, such as leading an annual Hiroshima Day 00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:11.819 vigil in sackcloth and ashes at the National 00:22:11.819 --> 00:22:16.200 Nuclear Weapons Labs at Los Alamos in New Mexico 00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:20.779 on the Hiroshima anniversary every year. which 00:22:20.779 --> 00:22:22.859 I didn't necessarily want to do. Who wants to 00:22:22.859 --> 00:22:26.180 do that? It's quite humiliating to sit in sackcloth 00:22:26.180 --> 00:22:29.519 and ashes. And then, gosh, people want to kill 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:32.279 you. And I was denounced left and right, even 00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:35.420 by my own parishioners, and then was kicked out 00:22:35.420 --> 00:22:37.859 of one of my parishes for this, and then punished 00:22:37.859 --> 00:22:40.960 by the archbishop, and then eventually removed 00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:45.829 from New Mexico by my Jesuit superiors. and told 00:22:45.829 --> 00:22:48.190 to stop all this peace work. And I shared some 00:22:48.190 --> 00:22:51.670 stories of recent arrests, such as when I went 00:22:51.670 --> 00:22:54.829 to the Supreme Court with Shane Claiborne and 00:22:54.829 --> 00:22:56.809 other friends, and we were calling for the abolition 00:22:56.809 --> 00:23:00.289 of the death penalty. There were 18 of us, including 00:23:00.289 --> 00:23:05.950 some friends who had lost victims to violent 00:23:05.950 --> 00:23:09.470 murder, lost their loved ones to violent crime, 00:23:09.569 --> 00:23:14.130 and who were against the death penalty. terrible 00:23:14.130 --> 00:23:18.829 couple of days in jail. And then similarly, when 00:23:18.829 --> 00:23:21.470 I was arrested for speaking out against fossil 00:23:21.470 --> 00:23:26.069 fuels with Jane Fonda's Fire Drill Fridays group, 00:23:26.170 --> 00:23:29.130 when we shut down the Senate Hart office building 00:23:29.130 --> 00:23:32.710 and we were held together in kind of an outdoor 00:23:32.710 --> 00:23:38.690 shelter area on a prison grounds outside of D 00:23:38.690 --> 00:23:42.150 .C. to weigh late at night in the bitter cold. 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:47.539 And it was kind of a common social experience 00:23:47.539 --> 00:23:53.079 of perfect joy, like Pentecost. Everybody was 00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:57.420 just so full of the spirit of life and hope and 00:23:57.420 --> 00:24:02.000 peace. And we were in handcuffs. It was an amazing 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:05.220 experience. But in the book, I reflect on two 00:24:05.220 --> 00:24:08.940 friends in particular. who I think became real 00:24:08.940 --> 00:24:12.220 global extensions of universal love. And they 00:24:12.220 --> 00:24:15.259 set a high bar for me and my journey of trying 00:24:15.259 --> 00:24:17.960 to surrender my life to the will of God and going 00:24:17.960 --> 00:24:20.900 all the way. The first was my friend Philip Berrigan, 00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:23.619 like his brother Daniel Berrigan. And I haven't 00:24:23.619 --> 00:24:26.119 really written much about Phil before until this. 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.880 Phil spent 11 years in prison for resisting war 00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:32.859 and nuclear weapons. It's just an amazing story. 00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:35.740 We don't even know how many times he was arrested, 00:24:35.839 --> 00:24:39.259 maybe 600 times, you know, and just hated. And 00:24:39.259 --> 00:24:41.579 his house would be raided in the middle of the 00:24:41.579 --> 00:24:45.740 night by the FBI. He knew hundreds and hundreds 00:24:45.740 --> 00:24:51.079 of us who were in and out of jail. And he got 00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:54.579 cancer while he was in prison and was released 00:24:54.579 --> 00:24:59.400 and died six months later. My other great friend 00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:02.420 is Dr. Paul Farmer, my lifelong friend. We went 00:25:02.420 --> 00:25:05.140 to Duke together and we were in this wild, crazy 00:25:05.140 --> 00:25:09.200 fraternity together. We both underwent quite 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:14.359 dramatic conversions. And he changed medicine 00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:18.039 around the world, became the most important doctor 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:20.740 in the world. That's what the dean of Harvard 00:25:20.740 --> 00:25:25.019 Med School told me. And founded Partners in Health. 00:25:25.690 --> 00:25:28.789 And figured out his life goal was to, how can 00:25:28.789 --> 00:25:32.910 we bring world -class healthcare to the poorest 00:25:32.910 --> 00:25:35.650 people on the planet? And he figured out how 00:25:35.650 --> 00:25:39.289 to do it. It's very doable. And he ended up founding, 00:25:39.450 --> 00:25:42.609 besides running Partners in Health, which has 00:25:42.609 --> 00:25:46.650 10 ,000 doctors working in countries all around 00:25:46.650 --> 00:25:50.329 the world, he founded three hospitals. two universities, 00:25:50.470 --> 00:25:53.690 and ran the healthcare systems for a while in 00:25:53.690 --> 00:25:56.509 both Haiti and Rwanda, where he was when he died 00:25:56.509 --> 00:26:02.390 suddenly at a young age in 2023. They're mythic 00:26:02.390 --> 00:26:07.269 people, my friends, Phil and Paul, who showed 00:26:07.269 --> 00:26:12.369 me how to give one's life completely over to 00:26:12.369 --> 00:26:16.049 the God of universal love and peace. And just 00:26:16.049 --> 00:26:19.049 to let the chips fall where they may and let 00:26:19.049 --> 00:26:24.329 your life be used for the whole human race. And 00:26:24.329 --> 00:26:27.390 you're kind of way beyond attachment to results 00:26:27.390 --> 00:26:30.269 or outcome or feeling depressed or sorry for 00:26:30.269 --> 00:26:33.710 yourself. You don't have time for that. I think 00:26:33.710 --> 00:26:35.890 if we try to do God's will of universal love 00:26:35.890 --> 00:26:38.049 and nonviolence, we're going to be uncomfortable. 00:26:39.869 --> 00:26:43.160 But it's going to be okay. That's what they show 00:26:43.160 --> 00:26:46.099 me. We have to get out of our comfort zones and 00:26:46.099 --> 00:26:49.519 take risks in public for justice and disarmament 00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:52.779 and step out into the unknown, whether it's prison 00:26:52.779 --> 00:26:58.420 or Haiti or Rwanda or wherever. And as the risen 00:26:58.420 --> 00:27:01.039 Jesus says at the end of the Gospel of John, 00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:06.980 go where we'd rather not go. That's the point. 00:27:07.470 --> 00:27:10.450 We are not in charge. We are serving God, and 00:27:10.450 --> 00:27:13.109 God is in charge, and God is running our lives 00:27:13.109 --> 00:27:16.089 and leading us. And that means calling us to 00:27:16.089 --> 00:27:20.029 get off the couch, face our fears, go out into 00:27:20.029 --> 00:27:22.650 the world, take to the streets, speak out, resist 00:27:22.650 --> 00:27:25.890 the systems of injustice and insane violence 00:27:25.890 --> 00:27:28.809 and war through our creative nonviolence, and 00:27:28.809 --> 00:27:38.470 let the chips fall where they may. in my case, 00:27:38.549 --> 00:27:42.230 fellow churchgoers or co -workers, and maybe 00:27:42.230 --> 00:27:45.650 for some of us, arrest or jail or violent death 00:27:45.650 --> 00:27:48.690 like Gandhi and Dr. King. So this is not a feel 00:27:48.690 --> 00:27:53.130 -good comfort food spirituality, you know, and 00:27:53.130 --> 00:27:55.750 why I don't read that much about it in the ancient 00:27:55.750 --> 00:28:00.890 spiritual classics. Because, you know, this is 00:28:00.890 --> 00:28:03.829 why we don't really want to surrender to God 00:28:03.829 --> 00:28:07.759 as much as we claim we do or we might. Because 00:28:07.759 --> 00:28:10.319 I think in such a world, in a time we're asked 00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:13.059 to endure, it's going to lead to public non -cooperation 00:28:13.059 --> 00:28:18.960 and confrontation with the systems of war and 00:28:18.960 --> 00:28:21.299 violence and death and destruction, with the 00:28:21.299 --> 00:28:24.680 principalities and powers. And the world of violence 00:28:24.680 --> 00:28:28.759 is going to push back. In other words, we're 00:28:28.759 --> 00:28:31.500 talking here about the cross, the cross. All 00:28:31.500 --> 00:28:34.059 of this is about the cross. As I'm saying this, 00:28:34.119 --> 00:28:37.779 I'm remembering an astonishing letter I had from 00:28:37.779 --> 00:28:42.240 Joan Chittister 30 years ago when I was in prison 00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:45.720 facing 20 years for my plowshares actions. I 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:47.440 don't know if I've shared this on the podcast, 00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:50.299 but, you know, I got a lot of letters. Phil and 00:28:50.299 --> 00:28:52.880 I were in the same jail cell and we each received 00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:57.849 50 letters a day. I think that was from like 00:28:57.849 --> 00:29:03.450 50 ,000 letters. No, 5 ,000 letters. And everyone 00:29:03.450 --> 00:29:07.369 said, oh, I'm so sorry that you're suffering. 00:29:07.670 --> 00:29:11.490 And except for two letters I got, Mother Teresa 00:29:11.490 --> 00:29:14.910 and Joan Chidester. Mother Teresa was like, oh, 00:29:14.930 --> 00:29:17.970 thank God you're suffering. That's the way Joan 00:29:17.970 --> 00:29:20.970 Chidester was too. And Joan Chidester wrote this 00:29:20.970 --> 00:29:24.490 sentence that just knocked me off my feet. She 00:29:24.490 --> 00:29:27.390 said, you are reminding us that the only way 00:29:27.390 --> 00:29:31.410 to positive social change, to justice and peace, 00:29:31.690 --> 00:29:34.650 is through our sharing in the paschal mystery 00:29:34.650 --> 00:29:43.309 of Jesus. Wow. That when we surrender ourselves 00:29:43.309 --> 00:29:47.789 completely to God, as Jesus did, when we let 00:29:47.789 --> 00:29:51.650 go of our fears and worries and control and ego, 00:29:52.970 --> 00:29:56.349 and walk forward in universal love, compassion, 00:29:56.430 --> 00:30:00.490 and peace, we can just let the chips fall where 00:30:00.490 --> 00:30:04.789 they may. We can accept the consequences of our 00:30:04.789 --> 00:30:09.789 political work to end war and killing and injustice. 00:30:10.849 --> 00:30:13.990 Because God is now running our lives, and we 00:30:13.990 --> 00:30:17.690 can move into a new, deeper level of serenity, 00:30:17.690 --> 00:30:22.099 trust. and both humility and strength rooted 00:30:22.099 --> 00:30:25.859 in God. So in the third part of the book, I return 00:30:25.859 --> 00:30:29.920 to the story of young Will, who had been coaching 00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:32.799 in the art of meditation and surrender and nonviolence. 00:30:32.819 --> 00:30:34.960 Now, this had been going on for a year or two 00:30:34.960 --> 00:30:40.160 when he packed up as the pandemic was starting 00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:42.759 to wind down, and he moved to Mexico, and then 00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:45.839 he moved to the Bahamas, where he ran the health, 00:30:45.839 --> 00:30:48.619 exercise, and sports programs at a large resort. 00:30:49.519 --> 00:30:51.539 And I didn't say anything, but, you know, me 00:30:51.539 --> 00:30:53.799 being judgmental, I was like, that's not what 00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:57.480 I quite had in mind. But I didn't say that. He 00:30:57.480 --> 00:30:59.599 was my friend. And he was immediately pointed 00:30:59.599 --> 00:31:03.099 into leadership positions and offered a job to 00:31:03.099 --> 00:31:05.279 live in the Bahamas for the rest of his life, 00:31:05.400 --> 00:31:10.559 being very well paid and very secure. And after 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:12.839 a while, he was going to go on a vacation to 00:31:12.839 --> 00:31:15.019 New Zealand. He was going to do some serious 00:31:15.019 --> 00:31:17.799 mountain hiking in the South Island on one of 00:31:17.799 --> 00:31:19.819 the great mountain rangers and then meet up with 00:31:19.819 --> 00:31:22.319 this girlfriend. And there he was sitting one 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:24.940 day by himself, resting on this mountaintop in 00:31:24.940 --> 00:31:27.599 a scene literally right out of Lord of the Rings. 00:31:27.740 --> 00:31:31.640 And he's taking all of this in when suddenly 00:31:31.640 --> 00:31:36.099 a bright red New Zealand rescue helicopter flew 00:31:36.099 --> 00:31:41.150 overhead pretty fast. And he felt overwhelmed 00:31:41.150 --> 00:31:44.950 once again by universal love, by God. And he 00:31:44.950 --> 00:31:47.690 knew in an instant what he would do for the rest 00:31:47.690 --> 00:31:51.069 of his life. As a young kid, he suddenly remembered 00:31:51.069 --> 00:31:53.470 all he wanted to ever be was a firefighter and 00:31:53.470 --> 00:31:57.089 a paramedic. But this was a spiritual calling, 00:31:57.250 --> 00:32:02.119 a way for him to live out. his calling to be 00:32:02.119 --> 00:32:05.619 an extension of universal love. In fact, he had 00:32:05.619 --> 00:32:08.539 been meditating every day and working on his 00:32:08.539 --> 00:32:12.259 nonviolence and trying to surrender himself nonstop. 00:32:12.299 --> 00:32:15.039 And at that moment, halfway around the world, 00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:20.480 in that magnificent setting of creation, he felt... 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:23.559 called by universal love. So he leaves the resort 00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:27.259 in the Bahamas, walks away from that life, enrolls 00:32:27.259 --> 00:32:30.039 in the local college EMT class, goes to the top 00:32:30.039 --> 00:32:33.220 of his class, and then is immediately hired by 00:32:33.220 --> 00:32:37.720 the LA fire department. And within weeks, it's 00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:40.180 just months after this happened, he's driving 00:32:40.180 --> 00:32:42.640 an ambulance all night long in the streets of 00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:44.779 Los Angeles. And he's calling me and I can't 00:32:44.779 --> 00:32:47.059 believe what he's going through. Within the first 00:32:47.059 --> 00:32:49.519 couple of weeks, one night he came upon a drive 00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:53.140 -by shooting. It left three men who had been 00:32:53.140 --> 00:32:55.599 sitting, talking peacefully on their front step, 00:32:55.700 --> 00:32:58.960 covered with bullet holes. It was like probably, 00:32:59.099 --> 00:33:04.019 you know, a gang initiation. And he was sent 00:33:04.019 --> 00:33:07.700 to treat the worst one hit and save the man's 00:33:07.700 --> 00:33:12.079 life. Will would call regularly from then on 00:33:12.079 --> 00:33:16.279 with incredible stories of saving lives. A year 00:33:16.279 --> 00:33:19.630 ago, that wouldn't have been imaginable. Then 00:33:19.630 --> 00:33:21.750 he announces one day that he's been accepted 00:33:21.750 --> 00:33:24.349 into the number one paramedic school in the country. 00:33:24.750 --> 00:33:28.170 And his first day, there's 50 firefighters in 00:33:28.170 --> 00:33:32.509 the class and just one other lowly EMT. But he 00:33:32.509 --> 00:33:35.049 starts studying 20 hours a day for six months. 00:33:35.089 --> 00:33:37.410 And again, he's at the top of this class. He 00:33:37.410 --> 00:33:40.150 gets an incredible job as the number one paramedic 00:33:40.150 --> 00:33:43.410 in a California. fire department and to this 00:33:43.410 --> 00:33:46.609 day spends four to five days a week, 10 hours 00:33:46.609 --> 00:33:51.089 a day, saving lives all day long. I would not 00:33:51.089 --> 00:33:54.109 have predicted any of this when we met. And each 00:33:54.109 --> 00:33:56.970 day he tells me, he reports that he's living 00:33:56.970 --> 00:33:59.549 out the adventure of being an extension of universal 00:33:59.549 --> 00:34:04.829 love. So I unpack some of this with him and we 00:34:04.829 --> 00:34:07.529 continue to talk about the social, economic, 00:34:07.589 --> 00:34:11.239 and political consequences of... this calling 00:34:11.239 --> 00:34:14.179 of surrendering our lives to God. One day he 00:34:14.179 --> 00:34:17.079 said to me, isn't surrendering to universal love 00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:20.179 just giving up? Doesn't that mean we're going 00:34:20.179 --> 00:34:24.179 to be completely passive? I knew what he meant, 00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:27.840 but it's strange. You know, on the contrary, 00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:30.480 I said, if we surrender ourselves completely, 00:34:30.659 --> 00:34:36.579 repeatedly over our wills, every day, our lives, 00:34:37.630 --> 00:34:40.150 to universal love, to the God of universal love 00:34:40.150 --> 00:34:46.230 and peace, in response to our own reality of 00:34:46.230 --> 00:34:49.750 selfishness and violence, and then the world's 00:34:49.750 --> 00:34:53.429 insane violence, oddly enough, instead of being 00:34:53.429 --> 00:34:57.090 passive, we become more active than ever because 00:34:57.090 --> 00:35:00.030 we're being used. God is like, oh, here's someone 00:35:00.030 --> 00:35:03.760 who's willing to work with me. And we end up 00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:06.320 becoming public activists or jump into the fray 00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:10.440 like you did. And we try to do what we think 00:35:10.440 --> 00:35:12.760 universal love, the God of peace, wants us to 00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:15.980 do. And then immediately we're thrown into suffering 00:35:15.980 --> 00:35:19.699 humanity and creation. So universal love is not 00:35:19.699 --> 00:35:24.659 passive at all. Universal love is always active. 00:35:24.980 --> 00:35:28.300 That's why there's nothing passive about active 00:35:28.300 --> 00:35:32.329 nonviolence. Nonviolence, as Cesar Chavez said 00:35:32.329 --> 00:35:36.329 to me, is public action, public action, public 00:35:36.329 --> 00:35:39.550 action for suffering humanity, for justice, for 00:35:39.550 --> 00:35:43.610 peace. It reaches out to include, welcome, reconcile, 00:35:44.070 --> 00:35:48.110 disarm, heal, bless, and embrace every human 00:35:48.110 --> 00:35:50.949 being as sister and brother, and widening that 00:35:50.949 --> 00:35:54.570 embrace of universal love and welcome every creature 00:35:54.570 --> 00:35:59.449 and all creation so that all might. know God's 00:35:59.449 --> 00:36:02.969 infinite personal universal love and dwell in 00:36:02.969 --> 00:36:07.309 God's universal peace and nonviolence. It's hard 00:36:07.309 --> 00:36:10.670 to believe that any one of us can make a difference 00:36:10.670 --> 00:36:16.150 in such a world. But I think in the exciting 00:36:16.150 --> 00:36:20.889 adventure of surrendering toward becoming an 00:36:20.889 --> 00:36:23.429 extension of universal love of the God of peace, 00:36:23.510 --> 00:36:27.230 we don't even think that way anymore. That's 00:36:27.230 --> 00:36:29.550 not even a question for us. I certainly saw that 00:36:29.550 --> 00:36:33.349 in Dan Berrigan. He said to me over and over 00:36:33.349 --> 00:36:36.389 and over again for 35 years, we're not attached 00:36:36.389 --> 00:36:39.730 to the results of our actions. We go forward 00:36:39.730 --> 00:36:43.309 anyway. We do what we can, and we let God make 00:36:43.309 --> 00:36:46.570 a difference through us. So that no matter what's 00:36:46.570 --> 00:36:49.210 happening around us, even the hell of the world, 00:36:49.449 --> 00:36:53.400 we know a deep inner peace, even joy. that nothing 00:36:53.400 --> 00:36:56.039 can touch, even when we're grieving the world. 00:36:56.699 --> 00:36:59.659 We do what we can to spread universal love and 00:36:59.659 --> 00:37:02.280 its social, economic, racial, political, even 00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:05.639 environmental implications. If we pitch in, pick 00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:08.440 a cause and contribute once, twice, or three 00:37:08.440 --> 00:37:11.420 times a day, doing what we can for justice, disarmament, 00:37:11.420 --> 00:37:15.000 and creation, but it's based in a surrender to 00:37:15.000 --> 00:37:18.960 the will of God, so that God is leading us and 00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:22.659 we never give up and we keep at it. well, then 00:37:22.659 --> 00:37:26.699 God's going to use us. And it's very interesting. 00:37:26.960 --> 00:37:29.920 That's how positive social change works through 00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:33.400 history. We could talk forever about this. And 00:37:33.400 --> 00:37:38.760 my great friend, the historian Howard Zinn, told 00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:43.579 me this. You can read it in his books. He said 00:37:43.579 --> 00:37:46.440 that's the crucial difference in every historically 00:37:46.440 --> 00:37:50.630 successful grassroots movement. was the steadfast 00:37:50.630 --> 00:37:54.489 commitment of ordinary people who had given over 00:37:54.489 --> 00:37:57.429 their lives to doing something noble every day 00:37:57.429 --> 00:38:00.829 for the bottom -up grassroots people power movement, 00:38:00.949 --> 00:38:04.250 for justice, for disarmament, for whatever the 00:38:04.250 --> 00:38:06.730 cause was, whether it's the abolition of slavery 00:38:06.730 --> 00:38:10.829 or segregation to workers' rights or the right 00:38:10.829 --> 00:38:14.150 of women to vote, wherever you looked at it historically. 00:38:14.590 --> 00:38:18.539 In other words, to universal love. And even if 00:38:18.539 --> 00:38:21.860 it seemed to make very little difference, it 00:38:21.860 --> 00:38:25.519 doesn't matter. And then you get to the point 00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:30.519 Howard told me that you get so wrapped up in 00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:33.019 universal love and the struggle for justice and 00:38:33.019 --> 00:38:35.179 the grassroots movement that you're not even 00:38:35.179 --> 00:38:37.440 thinking about the positive outcome anymore, 00:38:37.599 --> 00:38:41.239 even as you might be strategizing for it. for 00:38:41.239 --> 00:38:44.900 it. Now, Gandhi took this to a very fine level, 00:38:45.079 --> 00:38:48.880 a kind of postdoctoral detachment of outcome, 00:38:49.099 --> 00:38:53.679 where we take positive action for the good, but 00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:56.679 we're doing the good because it's good. And even 00:38:56.679 --> 00:38:59.019 as we're giving our lives in total surrender 00:38:59.019 --> 00:39:02.420 to God, and maybe even the outcome, we're not 00:39:02.420 --> 00:39:04.699 attached to the outcome, but we know the outcome 00:39:04.699 --> 00:39:07.199 is assured. Why? Because God's running the show, 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:11.809 not us. And we've gone deep into that. into surrendering 00:39:11.809 --> 00:39:15.269 to God's nonviolence, God's universal love. And 00:39:15.269 --> 00:39:17.690 that's what Howard Zinn said. He used a very 00:39:17.690 --> 00:39:22.210 interesting word. That's when nonviolence becomes 00:39:22.210 --> 00:39:26.530 contagious. That's how movements work. That's 00:39:26.530 --> 00:39:28.710 how positive social change is. And the degree 00:39:28.710 --> 00:39:32.650 that it's not contagious is because we're following 00:39:32.650 --> 00:39:37.079 our own wills, our own ego. But eventually, if 00:39:37.079 --> 00:39:39.099 we can really surrender to the will of God, you 00:39:39.099 --> 00:39:41.420 see this in Dr. King and the civil rights movement. 00:39:41.539 --> 00:39:43.500 That's what my friends who were his friends, 00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:46.079 when they talk about it, they said it was not 00:39:46.079 --> 00:39:48.860 at all what you'd think. And for those who heard 00:39:48.860 --> 00:39:52.800 Andrew Young in the podcast. Remember, he said 00:39:52.800 --> 00:39:56.139 that, you know, we were not depressed or despairing. 00:39:56.139 --> 00:39:58.820 We were full of joy. You get overwhelmed and 00:39:58.820 --> 00:40:01.320 you're in a whole other world. And that wins 00:40:01.320 --> 00:40:04.199 people over. Nonviolent universal suffering, 00:40:04.320 --> 00:40:07.820 suffering, love, truth and wisdom become contagious 00:40:07.820 --> 00:40:14.260 when everything is surrendered to God. So I think 00:40:14.260 --> 00:40:16.659 the life of surrender to God, to universal love 00:40:16.659 --> 00:40:20.380 pushes us out into the thick of things. More 00:40:20.380 --> 00:40:24.440 than we might have thought we could ever do or 00:40:24.440 --> 00:40:29.239 thought possible. Way beyond us, you know, beyond 00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:32.420 our fears, our worries, our own resentments. 00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:34.380 We end up joining the struggles and movements 00:40:34.380 --> 00:40:39.199 for positive social change. And we learn and 00:40:39.199 --> 00:40:42.679 use the tools of nonviolence. And we learn to 00:40:42.679 --> 00:40:46.760 act with grace and love and kindness toward ourselves 00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:50.579 and one another. dare I say, even in humility 00:40:50.579 --> 00:40:56.119 and patience as we support social, racial, economic 00:40:56.119 --> 00:40:59.079 justice, global disarmament, and environmental 00:40:59.079 --> 00:41:02.320 sustainability because we're trying to do the 00:41:02.320 --> 00:41:05.880 will of God. Yes, we recognize the enormity of 00:41:05.880 --> 00:41:13.440 the task at hand, but we don't have to act. We 00:41:13.440 --> 00:41:16.889 don't even have the time to act in despair. or 00:41:16.889 --> 00:41:20.230 apathy or fear or worry. We keep surrendering 00:41:20.230 --> 00:41:22.610 to God. That's what our focus is on, allowing 00:41:22.610 --> 00:41:25.150 ourselves to be transformed into extensions of 00:41:25.150 --> 00:41:28.369 universal love and become, to paraphrase Francis, 00:41:28.610 --> 00:41:32.030 you know, channels of God's peace. So if we live 00:41:32.030 --> 00:41:34.449 our lives according to our own wills, doing what 00:41:34.449 --> 00:41:37.369 we want, what we think is right, even as we work 00:41:37.369 --> 00:41:40.349 for justice and peace, you know, guided by our 00:41:40.349 --> 00:41:45.860 own egos and pride and anger and fear. I think 00:41:45.860 --> 00:41:47.920 you can make a case that the gospel says will 00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:53.360 be of no use whatsoever. In fact, we will definitely 00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:58.039 make things worse. If, on the other hand, we 00:41:58.039 --> 00:42:01.840 surrender ourselves completely to God, as Tutu 00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:04.340 and Dan Berrigan and Cesar Chavez did and so 00:42:04.340 --> 00:42:07.679 many others have talked about. If we let the 00:42:07.679 --> 00:42:10.300 God of universal love and peace lead us, use 00:42:10.300 --> 00:42:12.980 us, work through us, then our lives will be helpful 00:42:12.980 --> 00:42:16.480 and fruitful. Even if we don't know it or see 00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:19.000 it or can't even understand it, we will have 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:21.840 done our part to serve God and humanity and be 00:42:21.840 --> 00:42:23.699 part of the disarmament of the world. That's 00:42:23.699 --> 00:42:26.340 the journey. The more we surrender to the God 00:42:26.340 --> 00:42:29.119 of universal love and peace and God's work of 00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:31.719 universal love and peace in a world of universal 00:42:31.719 --> 00:42:35.039 violence and hate and war, the more we will become 00:42:35.039 --> 00:42:37.860 change agents. God's universal love and peace. 00:42:38.039 --> 00:42:40.519 And then the more God's universal love and peace 00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:44.500 can be unleashed into that contagious social, 00:42:44.840 --> 00:42:49.300 political, global transformative power. Each 00:42:49.300 --> 00:42:52.139 one of us can become a tipping point person like 00:42:52.139 --> 00:42:56.159 Rosa Parks, who makes a difference and sparks 00:42:56.159 --> 00:43:00.280 social change. Together, like drops in the ocean, 00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:03.179 we can become a wave of nonviolent discernment 00:43:03.179 --> 00:43:05.880 and transformation for the comings of God's reign. 00:43:06.639 --> 00:43:08.880 Well, I've been talking forever and I have so 00:43:08.880 --> 00:43:11.840 much more I want to say. I've been talking with 00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:14.440 young Will right up to a few days ago when recording 00:43:14.440 --> 00:43:18.039 this. And we keep reflecting on how the more 00:43:18.039 --> 00:43:20.539 we let go of our personal will and endeavor to 00:43:20.539 --> 00:43:23.079 do only God's will, the will of universal love, 00:43:23.159 --> 00:43:26.820 the more we notice how different our personal 00:43:26.820 --> 00:43:30.539 will is from God's will. And the more actually 00:43:30.539 --> 00:43:34.599 we want to... do God's will and cultivate and 00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:37.579 radiate and practice universal love, compassion, 00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:42.860 and peace toward everyone. And we find that the 00:43:42.860 --> 00:43:46.659 more we open ourselves to the will of universal 00:43:46.659 --> 00:43:52.579 love and peace, the more we have no problem with 00:43:52.579 --> 00:43:55.579 the politics of God. you could say, or God's 00:43:55.579 --> 00:43:59.039 plan, or God's way of dealing with the human 00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:02.340 race and creation. It begins to make sense, that 00:44:02.340 --> 00:44:04.880 whole question of free will that Archbishop Tutu 00:44:04.880 --> 00:44:08.579 talked to me about. That becomes the new normal. 00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:11.340 We no longer care about our personal wishes. 00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:15.639 or the consequences of our political stand based 00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:18.019 in universal love. We've surrendered ourselves 00:44:18.019 --> 00:44:21.420 to the God of universal love. So if people reject 00:44:21.420 --> 00:44:24.099 us or walk away from us or dismiss us because 00:44:24.099 --> 00:44:27.440 of this politics of universal love and nonviolence, 00:44:27.500 --> 00:44:30.880 we bless them and respond peacefully, prayerfully, 00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:35.119 mindfully. always with unconditional love, and 00:44:35.119 --> 00:44:38.059 get on with the work of peace and justice. We 00:44:38.059 --> 00:44:41.440 get to practice creative nonviolence now. So 00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:45.239 life is one adventure after another. And that's 00:44:45.239 --> 00:44:47.199 what young Will has been telling me, and it's 00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:51.400 great. That's my experience too. In the end of 00:44:51.400 --> 00:44:54.420 the book, I talk about the question of choice, 00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:58.559 because that's what Archbishop Tutu said. And 00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:01.179 you see it in the early books of the Hebrew Bible. 00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:04.880 I set before you life and death. Choose life 00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:08.400 that you and your descendants may live. I set 00:45:08.400 --> 00:45:11.920 before you my will of universal love, compassion 00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:15.639 and peace, my way of total nonviolence. Or you 00:45:15.639 --> 00:45:20.039 can follow your own way, which leads to selfishness 00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:24.480 and ego and control and therefore violence and 00:45:24.480 --> 00:45:27.960 harming one another. And then global insanity, 00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:32.639 nuclear destruction, climate change. And, you 00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:38.000 know, I just trying to encourage myself and my 00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:44.320 friends and all of us to choose universal love. 00:45:45.299 --> 00:45:48.239 compassion, and peace, to choose the way of nonviolence, 00:45:48.280 --> 00:45:52.460 which means every day to say, I don't know anything, 00:45:52.559 --> 00:45:54.820 especially as we get older, you can see it. Oh 00:45:54.820 --> 00:45:58.159 boy, was I wrong. Okay, I surrender everything 00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:01.800 to you, God. I only want to do your will from 00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:04.519 now on every day. Daniel Berrigan put it this 00:46:04.519 --> 00:46:07.539 way, we must choose to be chosen. That we're 00:46:07.539 --> 00:46:10.079 chosen, yes, but we have to choose that as well. 00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:13.579 And with every... present moment in the life 00:46:13.579 --> 00:46:16.780 of surrender from now on. We can and we will 00:46:16.780 --> 00:46:20.320 try to choose God's will, God's peace, God's 00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:22.239 universal love. And we want to try to help each 00:46:22.239 --> 00:46:25.559 other do that. And Gandhi had a beautiful phrase. 00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:28.280 I remember reading it. It's in Merton's book 00:46:28.280 --> 00:46:33.099 of Gandhi's little sayings. Gandhi said, we're 00:46:33.099 --> 00:46:35.940 going to choose this way of nonviolence, quote, 00:46:36.019 --> 00:46:39.480 with total disregard to the consequences to ourselves. 00:46:40.719 --> 00:46:43.239 We're going to live our way into living out the 00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:47.079 Sermon on the Mount and becoming channels of 00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:50.159 God's peace, to becoming extensions of universal 00:46:50.159 --> 00:46:53.340 love. Isn't that beautiful? And that's the journey. 00:46:53.460 --> 00:46:57.360 And it's really great to try to let go of our 00:46:57.360 --> 00:47:01.239 own selfishness, to wake up from our apathy and 00:47:01.239 --> 00:47:05.519 lethargy and blindness and narcissism and the 00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:08.869 cultures. extreme limitations and surrender into 00:47:08.869 --> 00:47:12.190 God's universal love. We find happiness and peace 00:47:12.190 --> 00:47:17.329 and friends and God. In the end, we find God. 00:47:17.610 --> 00:47:20.530 So I've been telling young Will that our motto 00:47:20.530 --> 00:47:23.750 is surrender, surrender, surrender. That's our 00:47:23.750 --> 00:47:27.550 new mantra, our path, surrendering over and over 00:47:27.550 --> 00:47:29.900 again to the God. to the God who is universal 00:47:29.900 --> 00:47:33.239 love, and then giving over our lives in universal 00:47:33.239 --> 00:47:37.119 love for others. And my hope and prayer for all 00:47:37.119 --> 00:47:40.820 of us is that each one of us could become who 00:47:40.820 --> 00:47:44.619 then we were created to be, like Gandhi and Dr. 00:47:44.820 --> 00:47:48.599 King, Dorothy Day and Rosa Parks, Archbishop 00:47:48.599 --> 00:47:52.699 Tutu, Thich Nhat Hanh, and Young Will, extensions 00:47:52.699 --> 00:47:56.940 of universal love. peacemakers. Thanks very much 00:47:56.940 --> 00:47:59.380 for listening to this Nonviolent Jesus podcast. 00:47:59.880 --> 00:48:03.199 You can get my new book, Universal Love, at orbisbooks 00:48:03.199 --> 00:48:07.559 .com or by calling them or going to any local 00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:10.690 bookstore. And maybe you can get a copy, too, 00:48:10.809 --> 00:48:13.849 for a friend or your priest or minister. I'm 00:48:13.849 --> 00:48:17.230 going to do a live online Zoom presentation on 00:48:17.230 --> 00:48:21.010 the book on Saturday, April 18th. This is 2026. 00:48:21.409 --> 00:48:24.309 You can find out more information at BeatitudeCenter 00:48:24.309 --> 00:48:27.710 .org, where you can find other programs and podcasts 00:48:27.710 --> 00:48:30.769 and offer a donation to support this free work. 00:48:30.849 --> 00:48:34.610 And also sign up there to receive our free regular 00:48:34.610 --> 00:48:37.590 e -blast with news about upcoming podcasts and 00:48:37.590 --> 00:48:40.320 Zoom. And thanks for giving us some positive 00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:42.619 feedback and helping to spread the word by telling 00:48:42.619 --> 00:48:46.059 friends about this podcast. So may the God of 00:48:46.059 --> 00:48:49.400 peace bless you all. Keep on following the nonviolent 00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:53.440 Jesus. And together, friends, let's really surrender 00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:57.000 our lives to God completely and go out into the 00:48:57.000 --> 00:49:00.440 fray and resist injustice and war and fascism 00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:04.619 and become God's extensions of universal love, 00:49:04.739 --> 00:49:07.500 peace, and nonviolence. See you the next time. 00:49:07.900 --> 00:49:08.500 Thank you.