WEBVTT 00:00:17.000 --> 00:00:19.940 Welcome to the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. I'm 00:00:19.940 --> 00:00:22.519 John, Father John Deere, and today I'm speaking 00:00:22.519 --> 00:00:25.899 with Charlene Howard, Executive Director of Pax 00:00:25.899 --> 00:00:29.100 Christi USA, the National Catholic Peace Movement. 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:34.600 This is a project of www .beatitudecenter .org 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:38.140 where you can find many other podcasts and regular 00:00:38.140 --> 00:00:41.479 Zoom programs on the nonviolence of Jesus and 00:00:41.479 --> 00:00:44.479 practicing nonviolence and working for a more 00:00:44.479 --> 00:00:48.700 just, more nonviolent world. So let's begin as 00:00:48.700 --> 00:00:51.719 usual with a little prayer. So I invite everyone, 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:54.600 wherever you are, just to take a deep breath 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:59.270 and just to relax and recenter yourself. And 00:00:59.270 --> 00:01:01.530 together, let's enter into the presence of the 00:01:01.530 --> 00:01:05.950 God of peace who loves you infinitely, personally, 00:01:06.329 --> 00:01:10.890 wildly, and everyone everywhere. And let's welcome 00:01:10.890 --> 00:01:15.349 the nonviolent Jesus here with us. Just take 00:01:15.349 --> 00:01:18.510 a moment to ask for whatever grace we need to 00:01:18.510 --> 00:01:20.950 follow the nonviolent Jesus more faithfully and 00:01:20.950 --> 00:01:30.730 do God's will. Thank you for all the blessings 00:01:30.730 --> 00:01:33.489 of life, love, and peace that you give us. Be 00:01:33.489 --> 00:01:36.890 with us now as we reflect together on your call 00:01:36.890 --> 00:01:40.329 to follow the nonviolent Jesus and work for a 00:01:40.329 --> 00:01:43.950 more nonviolent, more just world. Bless us, inspire 00:01:43.950 --> 00:01:47.650 us, disarm us, strengthen us, and send us out 00:01:47.650 --> 00:01:51.209 to do your will, to do our part to help end poverty, 00:01:51.430 --> 00:01:56.219 racism. greed, injustice, war, nuclear weapons, 00:01:56.480 --> 00:01:59.280 fascism, and environmental destruction, that 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:03.519 we might be your holy beatitude people, your 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:07.019 holy peacemakers, and welcome your reign of universal 00:02:07.019 --> 00:02:10.400 love, nonviolence, and peace on earth. In Jesus' 00:02:10.460 --> 00:02:14.310 name, amen. It's a great blessing to welcome 00:02:14.310 --> 00:02:16.930 today Charlene Howard, Executive Director of 00:02:16.930 --> 00:02:20.430 Pax Christi USA, which is the U .S. branch of 00:02:20.430 --> 00:02:23.530 the Global Pax Christi International, which is 00:02:23.530 --> 00:02:26.370 the official Catholic peace movement. Charlene 00:02:26.370 --> 00:02:29.590 is a lifelong Catholic, a catechist, longtime 00:02:29.590 --> 00:02:32.509 teacher in the Archdiocese of Washington, D .C., 00:02:32.509 --> 00:02:36.460 Catholic schools such as... Archbishop Carol 00:02:36.460 --> 00:02:39.360 High School, used to play them in soccer growing 00:02:39.360 --> 00:02:43.699 up in D .C., high school myself. She served as 00:02:43.699 --> 00:02:46.680 chair of Pax Christi USA's National Council for 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:49.599 three years and was named. Pax Christi Executive 00:02:49.599 --> 00:02:53.479 Director in 2024. She holds a master's degree 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:56.900 in catechesis and religious education from Catholic 00:02:56.900 --> 00:03:00.300 U, is a graduate and formal faculty of the Institute 00:03:00.300 --> 00:03:02.900 for Black Catholic Studies Imani Catechetical 00:03:02.900 --> 00:03:06.599 Program at Xavier University of Louisiana, and 00:03:06.599 --> 00:03:08.400 she and her husband Michael are the parents of 00:03:08.400 --> 00:03:12.639 four children and grandparents of five. So please 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:15.479 write down these websites for information. If 00:03:15.479 --> 00:03:19.479 you haven't already, check out poxchristiusa 00:03:19.479 --> 00:03:23.860 .org, and also the international movement based 00:03:23.860 --> 00:03:28.819 in Brussels at poxchristi .net. Welcome, Charlene 00:03:28.819 --> 00:03:32.289 Howard, to the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. Thank 00:03:32.289 --> 00:03:35.050 you, John, very much for this invitation and 00:03:35.050 --> 00:03:39.050 this opportunity to speak with you and your listeners. 00:03:39.129 --> 00:03:41.830 Great. So tell me about your journey growing 00:03:41.830 --> 00:03:44.349 up Catholic in Washington, D .C., working at 00:03:44.349 --> 00:03:47.030 Carroll High School and so many other places 00:03:47.030 --> 00:03:51.050 and everything that brought you to Pax Christi, 00:03:51.050 --> 00:03:54.789 this great leadership position you have in the 00:03:54.789 --> 00:03:59.319 church. Yes. Well, I am a fifth generation African 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:02.379 -American Catholic from on my dad's mother's 00:04:02.379 --> 00:04:05.099 side of the family. A lot of history. We were 00:04:05.099 --> 00:04:08.080 able to find out about that and raise Catholic 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:12.259 all my life. Went to Catholic schools of K through 00:04:12.259 --> 00:04:14.740 eight and high school at Elizabeth Seton High 00:04:14.740 --> 00:04:17.259 School in Bladensburg, Maryland, right outside 00:04:17.259 --> 00:04:20.399 of D .C. And then on to Boston College where 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:23.420 I had my undergrad was there. And when I returned 00:04:23.420 --> 00:04:26.439 to D .C., was still very involved in the church, 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:30.720 in our local parishes at that time, because that's 00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:33.939 what was modeled for me. My mom and dad, my dad 00:04:33.939 --> 00:04:38.040 in particular, was always involved with our parish. 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:41.579 You know, the times with parish schools, you 00:04:41.579 --> 00:04:43.459 know, who went to school with you were the same 00:04:43.459 --> 00:04:47.310 people you saw on Sunday. My dad was involved 00:04:47.310 --> 00:04:50.949 in the Knights of Columbus and also sports teams 00:04:50.949 --> 00:04:53.850 and things of that nature. So church was our 00:04:53.850 --> 00:04:56.529 life for very much of our life. And I continue 00:04:56.529 --> 00:05:01.589 that on based on his example. And what drew you 00:05:01.589 --> 00:05:05.230 to Pax Christi? When did you join and all? Yeah, 00:05:05.230 --> 00:05:08.769 it's kind of interesting because I kind of knew 00:05:08.769 --> 00:05:14.290 about Pox Christi through a friend of mine, Donna 00:05:14.290 --> 00:05:20.649 Grimes, who had previously worked at the USCCB 00:05:20.649 --> 00:05:24.910 first through the Campaign for Human Development, 00:05:24.970 --> 00:05:29.509 but then... took Beverly Carroll's position in 00:05:29.509 --> 00:05:33.509 the Secretariat to African Americans in the USCCB. 00:05:33.589 --> 00:05:36.750 And so Donna served in that capacity for a very 00:05:36.750 --> 00:05:39.069 long time. And because I was also very interested 00:05:39.069 --> 00:05:42.110 in social justice in that I was a social justice 00:05:42.110 --> 00:05:45.750 teacher at Archbishop Carroll, she would let 00:05:45.750 --> 00:05:47.430 me know what was going on and things that she 00:05:47.430 --> 00:05:49.550 was involved in. And Pox Christi from time to 00:05:49.550 --> 00:05:52.569 time with their events, she would invite me. 00:05:53.290 --> 00:05:55.930 To participate in that, she became a member of 00:05:55.930 --> 00:05:58.670 the local Pox Christi Metro Baltimore, D .C. 00:05:59.410 --> 00:06:03.430 group and also the National Council at one time. 00:06:03.529 --> 00:06:05.250 And I didn't know all the ins and outs, but she 00:06:05.250 --> 00:06:08.110 was my best friend. So if she said go, I went. 00:06:08.389 --> 00:06:12.670 If she said come, I went. And then you became 00:06:12.670 --> 00:06:17.589 the chair. But then really what got me more intimately 00:06:17.589 --> 00:06:21.129 involved is that one of my teaching colleagues. 00:06:23.019 --> 00:06:26.079 It moved on to another high school, but was involved 00:06:26.079 --> 00:06:31.899 with Pox Christian Metro DC Regional Group and 00:06:31.899 --> 00:06:35.800 knew that they wanted to continue to have a presence 00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:38.120 in, you know, someone who was working with young 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:40.800 adults, young adults with high school students 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:45.300 and so forth. And so she recommended my nomination 00:06:45.300 --> 00:06:51.189 to that regional group. And so just. You know, 00:06:51.209 --> 00:06:54.269 by virtue of that conversation, I went on and 00:06:54.269 --> 00:06:56.870 followed up on her suggestion and talked with 00:06:56.870 --> 00:06:59.430 Bob Cook and others who are part of that group 00:06:59.430 --> 00:07:02.949 and became a part of the Pox Christi Metro DC 00:07:02.949 --> 00:07:06.089 Baltimore Pox Christi group. And then from there, 00:07:06.230 --> 00:07:09.889 you know, it just all kind of evolved. And Donna 00:07:09.889 --> 00:07:13.689 Grimes again got rest her soul. She nominated 00:07:13.689 --> 00:07:18.480 me to be on the council. Not that I had aspirations 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:21.819 to that. I was still really, you know, getting 00:07:21.819 --> 00:07:24.699 involved with my regional group and really enjoying 00:07:24.699 --> 00:07:30.220 that. And so I was elected. And then upon election, 00:07:30.420 --> 00:07:33.060 became part of the executive committee as secretary 00:07:33.060 --> 00:07:38.860 and then was elected as chair. And so I was in 00:07:38.860 --> 00:07:42.339 the middle of my second term of that when Johnny 00:07:42.339 --> 00:07:45.230 Sokovich, the previous executive director. announced 00:07:45.230 --> 00:07:48.970 his departure and one thing led to the other 00:07:48.970 --> 00:07:52.329 and here we are. Okay. Thank you so much. So 00:07:52.329 --> 00:07:54.750 Charlene, I wanted to ask you general things 00:07:54.750 --> 00:07:58.040 about... Pox Christi. And before you share, let 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:00.699 me speak to the listeners who don't know about 00:08:00.699 --> 00:08:03.860 Pox Christi. So keep them in mind, Charlene. 00:08:04.019 --> 00:08:07.399 Absolutely. So for those who may not know, I 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:11.079 have been an organizer with Pox Christi since 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:16.530 1982, all over the country and the world. My 00:08:16.530 --> 00:08:19.490 constant thought is that every Catholic in the 00:08:19.490 --> 00:08:23.589 United States has to join Pax Christi USA. That's 00:08:23.589 --> 00:08:25.870 why I'm so excited that everyone is getting to 00:08:25.870 --> 00:08:31.050 meet Charlene. And it's weird. And those of you 00:08:31.050 --> 00:08:33.750 who are not Catholic, well, good luck listening 00:08:33.750 --> 00:08:37.309 to us talk about the Catholic Church. And by 00:08:37.309 --> 00:08:41.120 that, I mean, this is the official. official 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:45.299 movement within the church. And I met with Pope 00:08:45.299 --> 00:08:49.639 John Paul with Pax Christi, and he wept saying 00:08:49.639 --> 00:08:52.000 every Catholic in the world should be part of 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.639 Pax Christi. And he was totally with us, and 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:59.360 same with Pope Francis. And there's a bishop 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:03.379 president. I think Pax Christi, since it was 00:09:03.379 --> 00:09:05.620 founded, has changed the church around the world. 00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:09.440 But it's needed more than ever. So I invite people 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:12.480 to listen in to Charlene. My question for you 00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:16.600 is, tell us about Pax Christi in the U .S. overall 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:19.860 and what you're working on and where you're going. 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:23.960 And I hope it will inspire. Also, how can people 00:09:23.960 --> 00:09:30.309 join? Right. Right. Well, as you know, Pox Christi 00:09:30.309 --> 00:09:34.470 in the United States started in 1972. Pox Christi 00:09:34.470 --> 00:09:37.870 International, the mother, if you will, of the 00:09:37.870 --> 00:09:45.690 movement, began in 1945. When we started, when 00:09:45.690 --> 00:09:47.669 our organization started here in the States, 00:09:47.730 --> 00:09:51.750 it was to respond to largely the militarization 00:09:51.750 --> 00:09:55.789 that was going on in the country, the draft and 00:09:55.789 --> 00:10:02.330 also nuclear weapons and how all of those kinds 00:10:02.330 --> 00:10:07.820 of activities really do not support. the value 00:10:07.820 --> 00:10:10.919 of life. And if we believe certainly that we 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:13.759 are all made in the image and likeness of God, 00:10:13.899 --> 00:10:17.379 that then we all have value and we all have dignity 00:10:17.379 --> 00:10:21.559 and killing is not supposed to be part of our 00:10:21.559 --> 00:10:26.460 way of life. It is to help everyone to flourish, 00:10:26.559 --> 00:10:31.919 to thrive, to be able to. praise our God, and 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:34.500 then be used by our God to bring about goodness 00:10:34.500 --> 00:10:39.720 in the world. And so with that impetus, the movement 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:45.799 began and then has grown now to really respond 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:50.980 to a myriad of issues, which at their core are 00:10:50.980 --> 00:10:54.730 violence against people, racism. Certainly is 00:10:54.730 --> 00:10:58.309 that yes, still in terms of militarization and 00:10:58.309 --> 00:11:03.350 in terms of military spending, of course, that 00:11:03.350 --> 00:11:07.230 supports that still very much on the battlefield 00:11:07.230 --> 00:11:11.309 with regard to nuclear disarmament, immigration 00:11:11.309 --> 00:11:15.049 policies that, you know, just and especially 00:11:15.049 --> 00:11:19.460 now, you know, that have really. been damaging 00:11:19.460 --> 00:11:22.879 to our brothers and sisters who come from other 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:26.940 countries in the way that they are being treated 00:11:26.940 --> 00:11:31.600 and disregarded. Again, these are issues that 00:11:31.600 --> 00:11:36.080 are violent to all of us and even the environment, 00:11:36.179 --> 00:11:38.860 because when you have war, if we go back to that, 00:11:39.059 --> 00:11:44.659 that, you know, the destruction of the grounds 00:11:44.659 --> 00:11:47.779 and the environments and people's homes and cities. 00:11:48.649 --> 00:11:51.450 what goes into the air, all of that is connected. 00:11:51.730 --> 00:11:54.830 And so Pox Christi, through its various members, 00:11:55.070 --> 00:11:57.570 because we're not just the one group of people 00:11:57.570 --> 00:12:00.409 who are in the office in Washington, D .C., but 00:12:00.409 --> 00:12:04.990 we have groups all over in various iterations 00:12:04.990 --> 00:12:08.649 throughout the United States. And in their local 00:12:08.649 --> 00:12:12.110 areas, whatever the issues are that are most... 00:12:12.279 --> 00:12:16.019 prevalent and that for them and that they are 00:12:16.019 --> 00:12:19.259 most passionate about are the ones that they 00:12:19.259 --> 00:12:23.580 align themselves with, advocate on behalf of, 00:12:23.620 --> 00:12:28.820 become educated. They provide webinars and information 00:12:28.820 --> 00:12:35.909 and public actions. workshops and all kinds of 00:12:35.909 --> 00:12:39.230 whatever is at our disposal that God guides us 00:12:39.230 --> 00:12:42.009 to to do that. And we do that in a framework. 00:12:42.070 --> 00:12:43.629 And I think this is really important for our 00:12:43.629 --> 00:12:46.429 listeners to understand. It's not just off the 00:12:46.429 --> 00:12:49.110 top of our head. It is not just, you know, something 00:12:49.110 --> 00:12:53.070 we just picked up. We utilize a form of theological 00:12:53.070 --> 00:12:55.970 reflection, which is prayer, study and action 00:12:55.970 --> 00:13:03.919 so that we can. Be confident that what we do 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:07.679 in response to bringing nonviolence as a way 00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:11.200 to address some of these very serious issues 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:15.419 that we are, in fact, being informed by our God, 00:13:15.500 --> 00:13:19.019 that the Holy Spirit is in the midst of that, 00:13:19.139 --> 00:13:22.740 what we do. And so through prayer, study and 00:13:22.740 --> 00:13:28.610 action and even formalizing that in. publications 00:13:28.610 --> 00:13:32.649 that we send out through our website that help 00:13:32.649 --> 00:13:36.590 people see, well, what is it that we need to 00:13:36.590 --> 00:13:39.730 see about what's going on? You know, like the 00:13:39.730 --> 00:13:41.649 signs of the times, which the church certainly 00:13:41.649 --> 00:13:45.350 does that over the centuries. So we know what's 00:13:45.350 --> 00:13:47.929 really happening to people, what's really happening, 00:13:47.950 --> 00:13:52.129 what's being told to us. But then what is the 00:13:52.129 --> 00:13:54.549 church saying? about that? What is scripture 00:13:54.549 --> 00:13:56.610 saying about that? What does our lived faith 00:13:56.610 --> 00:13:59.190 experience tell us? How do those things align? 00:13:59.450 --> 00:14:02.129 And then how do those things inform what we should 00:14:02.129 --> 00:14:04.950 do next? How can we go forward? That's great. 00:14:05.149 --> 00:14:10.629 I'm glad you brought that up. You know, people 00:14:10.629 --> 00:14:15.539 always ask us, what can we do? I think Pax Christi, 00:14:15.539 --> 00:14:18.039 I've always thought this, offers the best, simplest 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:20.960 model. So what Charlene is telling us, and you 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:24.100 can say a little more about this, is that at 00:14:24.100 --> 00:14:26.980 one point, Charlene, in the 90s, I think we had 00:14:26.980 --> 00:14:30.600 400 local groups around the country. And that 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:33.419 means like, you know, in so many places I lived. 00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:36.379 In Berkeley, California, you'd have 30 people 00:14:36.379 --> 00:14:39.539 meeting every other Tuesday night for one hour. 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:43.220 And this great slogan was our mantra. Prayer, 00:14:43.220 --> 00:14:45.600 study, and action. We did a little prayer. We 00:14:45.600 --> 00:14:48.899 studied whatever issue we were working on, and 00:14:48.899 --> 00:14:51.840 we planned to do something together. And then 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:58.299 I always think there should be a Pax Christi 00:14:58.299 --> 00:15:02.120 group in every parish. In the country, really, 00:15:02.139 --> 00:15:04.340 every church, every religious community in the 00:15:04.340 --> 00:15:07.259 world is supposed to be a peace group. But this 00:15:07.259 --> 00:15:09.860 is a simple tool that everyone can use, and you 00:15:09.860 --> 00:15:12.659 only need five people, and you start with prayer, 00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:15.700 study, and action. And then we can become like 00:15:15.700 --> 00:15:18.480 the base community movements in Africa and Latin 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:20.580 America, which are going to have to as the country 00:15:20.580 --> 00:15:22.779 collapses. What do you think about that as a 00:15:22.779 --> 00:15:25.919 take? That really the strength of Pax Christi 00:15:25.919 --> 00:15:28.799 is the local groups all over the country and 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:32.759 the world. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because, you 00:15:32.759 --> 00:15:35.580 know, the people who are being impacted are the 00:15:35.580 --> 00:15:39.700 people who know what's going on. And the more 00:15:39.700 --> 00:15:42.100 that they are engaged in what is happening directly 00:15:42.100 --> 00:15:45.779 to them, they can then share that, which is one 00:15:45.779 --> 00:15:48.519 of the benefits of having our national office. 00:15:48.559 --> 00:15:53.299 It gives us a means by which that good work that 00:15:53.299 --> 00:15:55.779 folks are doing, we can put them in touch with 00:15:55.779 --> 00:15:59.580 each other and we can. you know, spread the knowledge, 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:02.419 spread the expertise and the effectiveness. And 00:16:02.419 --> 00:16:05.139 then people aren't alone anymore. You're part 00:16:05.139 --> 00:16:08.100 of, there are other ordinary people all across 00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:11.019 the country in every single state, in every parish, 00:16:11.179 --> 00:16:15.019 just ordinary people praying, studying, and then 00:16:15.019 --> 00:16:18.039 vigiling together or meeting their bishop or. 00:16:18.750 --> 00:16:21.850 going to do a protest. It's great. Thank you 00:16:21.850 --> 00:16:24.210 for keeping that alive. And I hope everyone will 00:16:24.210 --> 00:16:27.830 check out Pox Christi. Now, I remember early 00:16:27.830 --> 00:16:31.490 on, Charlene, some of the founders and all, Gordon 00:16:31.490 --> 00:16:34.509 Zahn and Egan talking about the title. And Mary 00:16:34.509 --> 00:16:38.389 Lou Kalnacki, my friend, she said, we really 00:16:38.389 --> 00:16:40.470 have a great title. And for those who don't know, 00:16:40.549 --> 00:16:43.730 that's the old Latin for the peace of Christ. 00:16:45.370 --> 00:16:49.049 It is powerful. And so you hear me, this podcast 00:16:49.049 --> 00:16:52.029 is the nonviolent Jesus. I'd like to ask you 00:16:52.029 --> 00:16:55.570 from your perspective and especially from your 00:16:55.570 --> 00:16:59.830 seat of looking out at the whole country about 00:16:59.830 --> 00:17:02.289 your understanding of the nonviolence and peace 00:17:02.289 --> 00:17:06.869 of Jesus and how he's calling us to be peacemakers 00:17:06.869 --> 00:17:10.829 and nonviolent and how Pax Christi is a way to 00:17:10.829 --> 00:17:14.950 help us actually. tap into and reclaim the nonviolence 00:17:14.950 --> 00:17:17.990 of Jesus, things like that? Yes, I'm really happy 00:17:17.990 --> 00:17:22.309 to answer that because my faith is so important 00:17:22.309 --> 00:17:27.109 to me. And even being a part of Pax Christi in 00:17:27.109 --> 00:17:29.549 the short time that I have has really impacted 00:17:29.549 --> 00:17:33.690 my ability to understand what it really means 00:17:33.690 --> 00:17:36.630 to be nonviolent. I will start with saying, first 00:17:36.630 --> 00:17:40.890 and foremost, Jesus is example. In the scriptures, 00:17:40.990 --> 00:17:45.430 as we come to know him through that, what he 00:17:45.430 --> 00:17:49.450 did, what he said, if you pay attention, he never 00:17:49.450 --> 00:17:53.789 harmed anything. He never harmed a human being. 00:17:54.589 --> 00:17:58.009 And regardless of whether they were the Pharisees 00:17:58.009 --> 00:18:02.289 or Sadducees or those who would, the Romans who 00:18:02.289 --> 00:18:07.009 would do him. or it was the people that he encountered 00:18:07.009 --> 00:18:10.349 on the road or the individuals that came seeking 00:18:10.349 --> 00:18:13.509 him and looking to find out more about him. He 00:18:13.509 --> 00:18:17.390 always regarded human beings, no matter what. 00:18:17.450 --> 00:18:21.789 So how he engaged, even when he knew they were 00:18:21.789 --> 00:18:28.710 out to get him or set him up, he was never violent. 00:18:29.319 --> 00:18:35.000 to them. I admire that so much of Christ. I want 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:37.119 to be that. I want to do that. So if I'm his 00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:40.339 disciple and he tells us in his word that, you 00:18:40.339 --> 00:18:43.579 know, like things similar to me, you will be 00:18:43.579 --> 00:18:45.900 able to do in my name or I give you all authority 00:18:45.900 --> 00:18:49.039 that's been given to me under heaven to go out 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:52.900 and to bring people to God and to bring about 00:18:52.900 --> 00:18:56.599 peace in the world. Well, then that means I have 00:18:56.599 --> 00:19:00.779 to check myself. First and foremost, am I being 00:19:00.779 --> 00:19:03.000 violent in my speech? Am I being violent in my 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.660 thought and my reactions? You know, like I really 00:19:05.660 --> 00:19:10.759 got to go deep. And it is such a lovely formation, 00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:16.559 I think, to have that kind of thoughtfulness 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:21.140 about living our faith. And Jesus, you know, 00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:23.740 I want to say I'm a follower of Christ. So there 00:19:23.740 --> 00:19:26.339 you go. So I got to go back and want to mess 00:19:26.339 --> 00:19:28.890 it up. try it again, you know, just keep trying. 00:19:29.109 --> 00:19:32.950 And I have found myself personally to be able 00:19:32.950 --> 00:19:35.589 to live with more joy, more understanding, more 00:19:35.589 --> 00:19:39.650 grace for human beings. And there's just been 00:19:39.650 --> 00:19:42.809 nothing but positive results from a personal 00:19:42.809 --> 00:19:46.369 standpoint. So then when we think about this 00:19:46.369 --> 00:19:51.490 on a broader scale, because yes, bad, evil, hurtful 00:19:51.490 --> 00:19:57.099 things happen that human beings create. and perpetrate. 00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:00.140 Yes, that's a reality. I'm not living in a dream 00:20:00.140 --> 00:20:04.400 here. But even Christ walked into that. He was 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:08.880 crucified for God's sake. He was beaten. He was 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:10.579 brutalized. He was talked about all the same 00:20:10.579 --> 00:20:13.920 things. So it wasn't anything new. And yet he 00:20:13.920 --> 00:20:17.420 persevered even on the cross to say, forgive 00:20:17.420 --> 00:20:18.920 them. They don't know what they're doing. They 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:21.460 really don't know what they're doing. And to 00:20:21.460 --> 00:20:24.019 the thief, well, you're welcome this day into 00:20:24.019 --> 00:20:27.130 paradise because you get it. You know, so when 00:20:27.130 --> 00:20:30.789 we get into these, you know, how we address the 00:20:30.789 --> 00:20:33.670 issues and the people who are at the core of 00:20:33.670 --> 00:20:38.990 some of these issues where our humanity is not 00:20:38.990 --> 00:20:42.730 shining its brightest, we have to remember, yeah, 00:20:42.849 --> 00:20:46.309 I might not like Trump. I can't stand what he's 00:20:46.309 --> 00:20:48.890 doing. We might say that. But yet there is a 00:20:48.890 --> 00:20:51.150 human soul there somewhere that we need to be. 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.519 praying for and yet speak truth to power well 00:20:54.519 --> 00:20:57.900 what can we do to influence and to show this 00:20:57.900 --> 00:21:01.400 is misdirected this isn't right it's not by me 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:06.460 going out and cussing or defaming his name or 00:21:06.460 --> 00:21:09.579 writing things that are slanderous about him 00:21:09.579 --> 00:21:11.599 no because that's that's the playbook he's using 00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:15.039 we can't do that you might feel like it but we 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:18.640 can't do that so so in our work those of us who 00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:22.279 are doing this in very public ways, we really 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:25.839 have to be careful and strategic and prayerful, 00:21:25.940 --> 00:21:29.700 can't say that enough, to make sure that how 00:21:29.700 --> 00:21:32.180 we speak truth to power, when we speak truth 00:21:32.180 --> 00:21:36.079 to power, and what is our ultimate goal in establishing 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:40.559 dialogue, relationship, and ultimate change for 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:45.109 the good, is it being guided by the right. Okay. 00:21:45.410 --> 00:21:47.710 You know, is it the right attitude? Because otherwise, 00:21:47.829 --> 00:21:51.109 it's not nonviolent. It's doing the same thing 00:21:51.109 --> 00:21:53.549 everybody else does. Thank you so much. Well, 00:21:53.609 --> 00:21:55.910 then let me ask you more about how we can help 00:21:55.910 --> 00:22:02.630 others learn and practice Jesus's way of nonviolence. 00:22:02.710 --> 00:22:05.789 I think it's the greatest need in the churches 00:22:05.789 --> 00:22:08.450 in the whole world, and that's the greatest failure 00:22:08.450 --> 00:22:14.109 of 2 ,000 years of Christians. completely renounced 00:22:14.109 --> 00:22:17.470 and failed Jesus on his nonviolence. So here 00:22:17.470 --> 00:22:20.150 you are, the head of the Catholic peace group. 00:22:20.250 --> 00:22:23.130 This is your job and mission, and it's really 00:22:23.130 --> 00:22:25.869 all of ours. So here's some of my questions about 00:22:25.869 --> 00:22:30.009 what we can do about that. How do you think we 00:22:30.009 --> 00:22:32.190 can help ordinary Catholics and all Christians 00:22:32.190 --> 00:22:36.670 here in our country learn Jesus' nonviolence? 00:22:37.210 --> 00:22:42.369 And then how can your lifelong catechism How 00:22:42.369 --> 00:22:46.809 do we help others teach gospel nonviolence and 00:22:46.809 --> 00:22:49.390 the nonviolence of Jesus? How can we help promote 00:22:49.390 --> 00:22:53.170 it? And how can we help organize it? Like our 00:22:53.170 --> 00:22:55.569 parishes should be more nonviolent. Our priests 00:22:55.569 --> 00:22:58.009 need to be more nonviolent, teaching nonviolence. 00:22:58.029 --> 00:23:00.609 Our bishops need to be teaching nonviolence. 00:23:00.809 --> 00:23:05.650 And we need groups that go out into the streets 00:23:05.650 --> 00:23:08.769 and practice nonviolence like Jesus did. So give 00:23:08.769 --> 00:23:12.309 us some more tips about what... Catholics and 00:23:12.309 --> 00:23:14.069 Christians across the country, our listeners 00:23:14.069 --> 00:23:18.130 can do, especially in this time, you know. Absolutely. 00:23:18.650 --> 00:23:25.609 Well, one very easy thing is to continue to read 00:23:25.609 --> 00:23:27.950 and learn. And so, you know, our website, and 00:23:27.950 --> 00:23:31.910 thank you for sharing. the website for us and 00:23:31.910 --> 00:23:35.430 for Pax Christi International. You know, find 00:23:35.430 --> 00:23:38.450 out what we're doing. Sign up for webinars. Look 00:23:38.450 --> 00:23:40.869 at our resources. Utilize them. We have resources 00:23:40.869 --> 00:23:43.650 that can be used at a parish level, a personal 00:23:43.650 --> 00:23:48.049 level. There are books that we have in our store 00:23:48.049 --> 00:23:52.880 that people can purchase and do book talks. and 00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:55.460 discuss these things or make it part of a Bible 00:23:55.460 --> 00:23:57.819 study that they may be doing that help to support 00:23:57.819 --> 00:24:02.359 that. We also have a piece adjacent organizations 00:24:02.359 --> 00:24:07.619 that are on our website. You know, we make sure 00:24:07.619 --> 00:24:12.579 that we publicize your podcast and others so 00:24:12.579 --> 00:24:15.660 that people who might not know about the Nonviolent 00:24:15.660 --> 00:24:18.819 Jesus podcast or might not know about Network 00:24:18.819 --> 00:24:22.119 or might not know about the Francis. African 00:24:22.119 --> 00:24:25.240 Action Network or Marinol or whatever, they can 00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:27.180 see, oh, these are supporting organizations. 00:24:27.579 --> 00:24:30.440 I can find out some more ways I can help if I 00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:33.539 check them out. So it does require effort. You 00:24:33.539 --> 00:24:37.880 know, you do have to go out, read, inquire, participate, 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:42.099 attend events as they hear about them. And again, 00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:45.240 we're a good resource for that on our website. 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:48.339 So that's one of the things I think that we have 00:24:48.339 --> 00:24:53.369 to learn how to trust. God and in our parishes, 00:24:53.430 --> 00:24:56.990 think about who don't we know? Who can we extend 00:24:56.990 --> 00:25:00.549 ourselves to just to say hello to them at mass? 00:25:00.829 --> 00:25:03.069 I mean, that might sound very trite, but it really 00:25:03.069 --> 00:25:05.029 isn't because it starts with the little things, 00:25:05.190 --> 00:25:08.490 you know? And the better you become at that, 00:25:08.609 --> 00:25:12.470 the greater you will be able to do down the road. 00:25:12.549 --> 00:25:16.950 So I think that people in their own parishes 00:25:16.950 --> 00:25:21.319 beginning to look at and examining How can we 00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:24.880 interact and cultivate relationship better with 00:25:24.880 --> 00:25:28.920 the people right here in our church? Are we excluding 00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:32.880 people intentionally or unintentionally? That's 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:34.740 a form of violence if we do that because we're 00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:37.799 denying their dignity. So, you know, those little 00:25:37.799 --> 00:25:40.240 things like that, how do we do that? What kind 00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:46.180 of language do we use when we, you know, that... 00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:49.579 Can we raise our awareness about that, you know, 00:25:49.579 --> 00:25:53.039 and take out nonviolent references that are in 00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:55.579 our speech that have become so commonplace? Like, 00:25:55.599 --> 00:25:59.700 I'm going to target that particular issue. Well, 00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:01.700 wait a minute. No, target is not the word you 00:26:01.700 --> 00:26:04.920 want to use, you know. And it takes a lot of 00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:07.759 discipline and a lot of awareness and intentionality 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:12.559 to do that. And I would also say really be serious 00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:17.470 about. What you read in Scripture, I mean, look 00:26:17.470 --> 00:26:23.690 for the examples in the Gospels and in the letters 00:26:23.690 --> 00:26:29.390 and in the documents of the church that help 00:26:29.390 --> 00:26:32.690 us to understand what that means. I mean, just 00:26:32.690 --> 00:26:36.890 recently in the World Day of Peace message, Pope 00:26:36.890 --> 00:26:39.809 Leo XIV talked about an unarmed and disarming 00:26:39.809 --> 00:26:44.960 peace. Read it. Listen to it. Those words were 00:26:44.960 --> 00:26:47.839 inspirational in the details that he added to 00:26:47.839 --> 00:26:50.500 that and some of the additional documents that 00:26:50.500 --> 00:26:54.599 he referred to in that and in all of what he 00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:58.240 provides to us continue to reinforce that message 00:26:58.240 --> 00:27:01.480 of how necessary, like you were saying, John, 00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:04.880 that being peacemakers, being people of peace, 00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:09.279 it is key to our Christianity, to our Catholicism, 00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:13.829 to have that at the core. Yeah, it was. Beautiful, 00:27:13.849 --> 00:27:17.430 the statement that came out on January 1st, 2026. 00:27:17.769 --> 00:27:21.710 Peace be with you. We are called to an unarmed 00:27:21.710 --> 00:27:24.710 and disarming peace. No pope has ever said that 00:27:24.710 --> 00:27:27.289 before. We were trying to get Francis to say 00:27:27.289 --> 00:27:29.690 something like that. I think he's some ways gone 00:27:29.690 --> 00:27:33.269 forward with Francis, more beyond a little of 00:27:33.269 --> 00:27:38.000 Pope Francis. Pax Christi International. which 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:41.220 you and I are part of, has been leading a way 00:27:41.220 --> 00:27:45.119 to working with the Vatican to get, we're calling 00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:47.400 for an encyclical on nonviolence and getting 00:27:47.400 --> 00:27:50.000 the Vatican. to promote and teach the nonviolence 00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:53.759 of Jesus around the world. And so much has happened. 00:27:53.940 --> 00:27:56.180 Can you give us, we're really running out of 00:27:56.180 --> 00:27:58.980 time, but just a little update about the Catholic 00:27:58.980 --> 00:28:01.819 Nonviolence Initiative. And folks can learn more 00:28:01.819 --> 00:28:04.920 about that. We had Marie Dennis on talking about 00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:07.859 it, but at poxchristi .net. Just a little update 00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:12.079 about the work with Pope Leo. Well, I am not... 00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:15.099 aware right now of the details of that, but I 00:28:15.099 --> 00:28:18.779 know that with the Catholic Institute for Nonviolence, 00:28:18.859 --> 00:28:21.819 which is the project that Marie is the director 00:28:21.819 --> 00:28:25.779 of, again, there's lots of information on there 00:28:25.779 --> 00:28:28.720 on the roundtables and the various actions that 00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:32.500 they are taking to help not only be informed 00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:36.380 by what the Vatican is doing, but to inform people 00:28:36.380 --> 00:28:38.839 all over the world. And I do know that they are 00:28:38.839 --> 00:28:44.940 in constant contact. with the various dicastery 00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:50.460 offices there, dicastery offices, on the encyclical 00:28:50.460 --> 00:28:54.099 and other actions. It's a slow process. I mean, 00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:58.059 the church, she's slow to change, but she does. 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:01.640 God bless her. We're working on it, Charlene. 00:29:01.700 --> 00:29:05.099 Yes, and so that is the work of Pax Christi. 00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:08.359 It's the work of Pax Christi, yeah. Yes, yes, 00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:11.779 yes. It continues. And I think Pope Leo has welcomed 00:29:11.779 --> 00:29:16.859 us very much for that. So, yes, we are definitely 00:29:16.859 --> 00:29:19.359 on the same wavelength. You know, when I would 00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:24.160 go to those meetings at the Vatican, I just was 00:29:24.160 --> 00:29:29.410 shocked about to see. how Pax Christi is promoting 00:29:29.410 --> 00:29:35.609 all this great work and having an impact all 00:29:35.609 --> 00:29:38.569 around the world, except in the U .S. because 00:29:38.569 --> 00:29:41.650 we've moved so far to the right. I'm talking 00:29:41.650 --> 00:29:46.190 mainstream cultural U .S. and the church mainstream. 00:29:48.250 --> 00:29:50.750 It was very encouraging is all I wanted to say, 00:29:50.849 --> 00:29:53.849 Charlene. And I hope all our listeners can, as 00:29:53.849 --> 00:29:57.569 Charlene is inviting us, check out PoxChristiUSA 00:29:57.569 --> 00:30:00.990 .org and also the global efforts at PoxChristi 00:30:00.990 --> 00:30:03.569 .net. We're really out of time and there's so 00:30:03.569 --> 00:30:06.730 much more to talk about. So let me ask you to, 00:30:06.809 --> 00:30:09.109 you know, in whatever way you want, is there 00:30:09.109 --> 00:30:11.490 anything else you'd like to say before we end 00:30:11.490 --> 00:30:14.589 or any word of encouragement to our listeners 00:30:14.589 --> 00:30:18.740 to keep pursuing the peace of Christ? Yes. As 00:30:18.740 --> 00:30:23.420 we know that in scripture, that the story about 00:30:23.420 --> 00:30:26.099 not keeping your light under a bushel basket 00:30:26.099 --> 00:30:29.480 and and also the references to, you know, one 00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:33.539 light can dispel the darkness. That is what we 00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:36.859 are. Pox Christi is that light. And I want people 00:30:36.859 --> 00:30:40.119 to walk away with, yes, there's a lot of hard 00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:43.140 things going on in this country, but there's 00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:45.599 a lot of light, too. And Pox Christi is one of 00:30:45.599 --> 00:30:48.559 the main entities bringing that light. There 00:30:48.559 --> 00:30:50.859 are good things happening. There are changes 00:30:50.859 --> 00:30:56.240 being made. And, you know, we are making an impact. 00:30:56.500 --> 00:30:59.759 So don't be fooled to think that we're not gaining 00:30:59.759 --> 00:31:03.009 ground and things are not. happening for good 00:31:03.009 --> 00:31:05.170 and happening for peace in our country. It is 00:31:05.170 --> 00:31:09.029 happening. And plug into that. Find out more 00:31:09.029 --> 00:31:14.430 about that at poxchristiusa .org. Well, thank 00:31:14.430 --> 00:31:16.710 you so much, Charlene Howard, for speaking with 00:31:16.710 --> 00:31:19.369 me today. And I hope everybody takes to heart 00:31:19.369 --> 00:31:22.930 her admonition to go let your light shine. And 00:31:22.930 --> 00:31:25.430 so thanks, friends, for listening to this episode 00:31:25.430 --> 00:31:28.329 of the Nonviolent Jesus podcast. You can hear 00:31:28.329 --> 00:31:31.680 more podcasts and find other upcoming Zoom programs 00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:37.480 at www .beatitudescenter .org. You can also make 00:31:37.480 --> 00:31:40.500 a donation there to support this free work and 00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:43.859 also sign up to receive our free e -blast, which 00:31:43.859 --> 00:31:49.700 has news about upcoming podcasts and Zooms. And, 00:31:49.779 --> 00:31:53.460 for example, after this, this will be on in mid 00:31:53.460 --> 00:31:55.700 -January and then the following week for the 00:31:55.700 --> 00:31:59.200 Dr. King holiday. We're posting my conversation 00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:02.160 with Reverend Andrew Young, Dr. King's assistant. 00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:04.920 If you can, I'd love it if you left some positive 00:32:04.920 --> 00:32:08.839 feedback or a review at NCR or Apple or Spotify 00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:12.539 or YouTube or Substack, whatever platform you 00:32:12.539 --> 00:32:15.940 use. But mainly, please, friends, help spread 00:32:15.940 --> 00:32:18.559 the word about the Nonviolent Jesus podcast. 00:32:19.220 --> 00:32:22.279 And may the God of peace bless everyone listening 00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:25.640 and keep on following the Nonviolent Jesus. See 00:32:25.640 --> 00:32:26.299 you next time.