Welcome to the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. I'm
John, Father John Deere, and today I'm speaking
with Charlene Howard, Executive Director of Pax
Christi USA, the National Catholic Peace Movement.
This is a project of www .beatitudecenter .org
where you can find many other podcasts and regular
Zoom programs on the nonviolence of Jesus and
practicing nonviolence and working for a more
just, more nonviolent world. So let's begin as
usual with a little prayer. So I invite everyone,
wherever you are, just to take a deep breath
and just to relax and recenter yourself. And
together, let's enter into the presence of the
God of peace who loves you infinitely, personally,
wildly, and everyone everywhere. And let's welcome
the nonviolent Jesus here with us. Just take
a moment to ask for whatever grace we need to
follow the nonviolent Jesus more faithfully and
do God's will. Thank you for all the blessings
of life, love, and peace that you give us. Be
with us now as we reflect together on your call
to follow the nonviolent Jesus and work for a
more nonviolent, more just world. Bless us, inspire
us, disarm us, strengthen us, and send us out
to do your will, to do our part to help end poverty,
racism. greed, injustice, war, nuclear weapons,
fascism, and environmental destruction, that
we might be your holy beatitude people, your
holy peacemakers, and welcome your reign of universal
love, nonviolence, and peace on earth. In Jesus'
name, amen. It's a great blessing to welcome
today Charlene Howard, Executive Director of
Pax Christi USA, which is the U .S. branch of
the Global Pax Christi International, which is
the official Catholic peace movement. Charlene
is a lifelong Catholic, a catechist, longtime
teacher in the Archdiocese of Washington, D .C.,
Catholic schools such as... Archbishop Carol
High School, used to play them in soccer growing
up in D .C., high school myself. She served as
chair of Pax Christi USA's National Council for
three years and was named. Pax Christi Executive
Director in 2024. She holds a master's degree
in catechesis and religious education from Catholic
U, is a graduate and formal faculty of the Institute
for Black Catholic Studies Imani Catechetical
Program at Xavier University of Louisiana, and
she and her husband Michael are the parents of
four children and grandparents of five. So please
write down these websites for information. If
you haven't already, check out poxchristiusa
.org, and also the international movement based
in Brussels at poxchristi .net. Welcome, Charlene
Howard, to the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. Thank
you, John, very much for this invitation and
this opportunity to speak with you and your listeners.
Great. So tell me about your journey growing
up Catholic in Washington, D .C., working at
Carroll High School and so many other places
and everything that brought you to Pax Christi,
this great leadership position you have in the
church. Yes. Well, I am a fifth generation African
-American Catholic from on my dad's mother's
side of the family. A lot of history. We were
able to find out about that and raise Catholic
all my life. Went to Catholic schools of K through
eight and high school at Elizabeth Seton High
School in Bladensburg, Maryland, right outside
of D .C. And then on to Boston College where
I had my undergrad was there. And when I returned
to D .C., was still very involved in the church,
in our local parishes at that time, because that's
what was modeled for me. My mom and dad, my dad
in particular, was always involved with our parish.
You know, the times with parish schools, you
know, who went to school with you were the same
people you saw on Sunday. My dad was involved
in the Knights of Columbus and also sports teams
and things of that nature. So church was our
life for very much of our life. And I continue
that on based on his example. And what drew you
to Pax Christi? When did you join and all? Yeah,
it's kind of interesting because I kind of knew
about Pox Christi through a friend of mine, Donna
Grimes, who had previously worked at the USCCB
first through the Campaign for Human Development,
but then... took Beverly Carroll's position in
the Secretariat to African Americans in the USCCB.
And so Donna served in that capacity for a very
long time. And because I was also very interested
in social justice in that I was a social justice
teacher at Archbishop Carroll, she would let
me know what was going on and things that she
was involved in. And Pox Christi from time to
time with their events, she would invite me.
To participate in that, she became a member of
the local Pox Christi Metro Baltimore, D .C.
group and also the National Council at one time.
And I didn't know all the ins and outs, but she
was my best friend. So if she said go, I went.
If she said come, I went. And then you became
the chair. But then really what got me more intimately
involved is that one of my teaching colleagues.
It moved on to another high school, but was involved
with Pox Christian Metro DC Regional Group and
knew that they wanted to continue to have a presence
in, you know, someone who was working with young
adults, young adults with high school students
and so forth. And so she recommended my nomination
to that regional group. And so just. You know,
by virtue of that conversation, I went on and
followed up on her suggestion and talked with
Bob Cook and others who are part of that group
and became a part of the Pox Christi Metro DC
Baltimore Pox Christi group. And then from there,
you know, it just all kind of evolved. And Donna
Grimes again got rest her soul. She nominated
me to be on the council. Not that I had aspirations
to that. I was still really, you know, getting
involved with my regional group and really enjoying
that. And so I was elected. And then upon election,
became part of the executive committee as secretary
and then was elected as chair. And so I was in
the middle of my second term of that when Johnny
Sokovich, the previous executive director. announced
his departure and one thing led to the other
and here we are. Okay. Thank you so much. So
Charlene, I wanted to ask you general things
about... Pox Christi. And before you share, let
me speak to the listeners who don't know about
Pox Christi. So keep them in mind, Charlene.
Absolutely. So for those who may not know, I
have been an organizer with Pox Christi since
1982, all over the country and the world. My
constant thought is that every Catholic in the
United States has to join Pax Christi USA. That's
why I'm so excited that everyone is getting to
meet Charlene. And it's weird. And those of you
who are not Catholic, well, good luck listening
to us talk about the Catholic Church. And by
that, I mean, this is the official. official
movement within the church. And I met with Pope
John Paul with Pax Christi, and he wept saying
every Catholic in the world should be part of
Pax Christi. And he was totally with us, and
same with Pope Francis. And there's a bishop
president. I think Pax Christi, since it was
founded, has changed the church around the world.
But it's needed more than ever. So I invite people
to listen in to Charlene. My question for you
is, tell us about Pax Christi in the U .S. overall
and what you're working on and where you're going.
And I hope it will inspire. Also, how can people
join? Right. Right. Well, as you know, Pox Christi
in the United States started in 1972. Pox Christi
International, the mother, if you will, of the
movement, began in 1945. When we started, when
our organization started here in the States,
it was to respond to largely the militarization
that was going on in the country, the draft and
also nuclear weapons and how all of those kinds
of activities really do not support. the value
of life. And if we believe certainly that we
are all made in the image and likeness of God,
that then we all have value and we all have dignity
and killing is not supposed to be part of our
way of life. It is to help everyone to flourish,
to thrive, to be able to. praise our God, and
then be used by our God to bring about goodness
in the world. And so with that impetus, the movement
began and then has grown now to really respond
to a myriad of issues, which at their core are
violence against people, racism. Certainly is
that yes, still in terms of militarization and
in terms of military spending, of course, that
supports that still very much on the battlefield
with regard to nuclear disarmament, immigration
policies that, you know, just and especially
now, you know, that have really. been damaging
to our brothers and sisters who come from other
countries in the way that they are being treated
and disregarded. Again, these are issues that
are violent to all of us and even the environment,
because when you have war, if we go back to that,
that, you know, the destruction of the grounds
and the environments and people's homes and cities.
what goes into the air, all of that is connected.
And so Pox Christi, through its various members,
because we're not just the one group of people
who are in the office in Washington, D .C., but
we have groups all over in various iterations
throughout the United States. And in their local
areas, whatever the issues are that are most...
prevalent and that for them and that they are
most passionate about are the ones that they
align themselves with, advocate on behalf of,
become educated. They provide webinars and information
and public actions. workshops and all kinds of
whatever is at our disposal that God guides us
to to do that. And we do that in a framework.
And I think this is really important for our
listeners to understand. It's not just off the
top of our head. It is not just, you know, something
we just picked up. We utilize a form of theological
reflection, which is prayer, study and action
so that we can. Be confident that what we do
in response to bringing nonviolence as a way
to address some of these very serious issues
that we are, in fact, being informed by our God,
that the Holy Spirit is in the midst of that,
what we do. And so through prayer, study and
action and even formalizing that in. publications
that we send out through our website that help
people see, well, what is it that we need to
see about what's going on? You know, like the
signs of the times, which the church certainly
does that over the centuries. So we know what's
really happening to people, what's really happening,
what's being told to us. But then what is the
church saying? about that? What is scripture
saying about that? What does our lived faith
experience tell us? How do those things align?
And then how do those things inform what we should
do next? How can we go forward? That's great.
I'm glad you brought that up. You know, people
always ask us, what can we do? I think Pax Christi,
I've always thought this, offers the best, simplest
model. So what Charlene is telling us, and you
can say a little more about this, is that at
one point, Charlene, in the 90s, I think we had
400 local groups around the country. And that
means like, you know, in so many places I lived.
In Berkeley, California, you'd have 30 people
meeting every other Tuesday night for one hour.
And this great slogan was our mantra. Prayer,
study, and action. We did a little prayer. We
studied whatever issue we were working on, and
we planned to do something together. And then
I always think there should be a Pax Christi
group in every parish. In the country, really,
every church, every religious community in the
world is supposed to be a peace group. But this
is a simple tool that everyone can use, and you
only need five people, and you start with prayer,
study, and action. And then we can become like
the base community movements in Africa and Latin
America, which are going to have to as the country
collapses. What do you think about that as a
take? That really the strength of Pax Christi
is the local groups all over the country and
the world. Absolutely. Absolutely. Because, you
know, the people who are being impacted are the
people who know what's going on. And the more
that they are engaged in what is happening directly
to them, they can then share that, which is one
of the benefits of having our national office.
It gives us a means by which that good work that
folks are doing, we can put them in touch with
each other and we can. you know, spread the knowledge,
spread the expertise and the effectiveness. And
then people aren't alone anymore. You're part
of, there are other ordinary people all across
the country in every single state, in every parish,
just ordinary people praying, studying, and then
vigiling together or meeting their bishop or.
going to do a protest. It's great. Thank you
for keeping that alive. And I hope everyone will
check out Pox Christi. Now, I remember early
on, Charlene, some of the founders and all, Gordon
Zahn and Egan talking about the title. And Mary
Lou Kalnacki, my friend, she said, we really
have a great title. And for those who don't know,
that's the old Latin for the peace of Christ.
It is powerful. And so you hear me, this podcast
is the nonviolent Jesus. I'd like to ask you
from your perspective and especially from your
seat of looking out at the whole country about
your understanding of the nonviolence and peace
of Jesus and how he's calling us to be peacemakers
and nonviolent and how Pax Christi is a way to
help us actually. tap into and reclaim the nonviolence
of Jesus, things like that? Yes, I'm really happy
to answer that because my faith is so important
to me. And even being a part of Pax Christi in
the short time that I have has really impacted
my ability to understand what it really means
to be nonviolent. I will start with saying, first
and foremost, Jesus is example. In the scriptures,
as we come to know him through that, what he
did, what he said, if you pay attention, he never
harmed anything. He never harmed a human being.
And regardless of whether they were the Pharisees
or Sadducees or those who would, the Romans who
would do him. or it was the people that he encountered
on the road or the individuals that came seeking
him and looking to find out more about him. He
always regarded human beings, no matter what.
So how he engaged, even when he knew they were
out to get him or set him up, he was never violent.
to them. I admire that so much of Christ. I want
to be that. I want to do that. So if I'm his
disciple and he tells us in his word that, you
know, like things similar to me, you will be
able to do in my name or I give you all authority
that's been given to me under heaven to go out
and to bring people to God and to bring about
peace in the world. Well, then that means I have
to check myself. First and foremost, am I being
violent in my speech? Am I being violent in my
thought and my reactions? You know, like I really
got to go deep. And it is such a lovely formation,
I think, to have that kind of thoughtfulness
about living our faith. And Jesus, you know,
I want to say I'm a follower of Christ. So there
you go. So I got to go back and want to mess
it up. try it again, you know, just keep trying.
And I have found myself personally to be able
to live with more joy, more understanding, more
grace for human beings. And there's just been
nothing but positive results from a personal
standpoint. So then when we think about this
on a broader scale, because yes, bad, evil, hurtful
things happen that human beings create. and perpetrate.
Yes, that's a reality. I'm not living in a dream
here. But even Christ walked into that. He was
crucified for God's sake. He was beaten. He was
brutalized. He was talked about all the same
things. So it wasn't anything new. And yet he
persevered even on the cross to say, forgive
them. They don't know what they're doing. They
really don't know what they're doing. And to
the thief, well, you're welcome this day into
paradise because you get it. You know, so when
we get into these, you know, how we address the
issues and the people who are at the core of
some of these issues where our humanity is not
shining its brightest, we have to remember, yeah,
I might not like Trump. I can't stand what he's
doing. We might say that. But yet there is a
human soul there somewhere that we need to be.
praying for and yet speak truth to power well
what can we do to influence and to show this
is misdirected this isn't right it's not by me
going out and cussing or defaming his name or
writing things that are slanderous about him
no because that's that's the playbook he's using
we can't do that you might feel like it but we
can't do that so so in our work those of us who
are doing this in very public ways, we really
have to be careful and strategic and prayerful,
can't say that enough, to make sure that how
we speak truth to power, when we speak truth
to power, and what is our ultimate goal in establishing
dialogue, relationship, and ultimate change for
the good, is it being guided by the right. Okay.
You know, is it the right attitude? Because otherwise,
it's not nonviolent. It's doing the same thing
everybody else does. Thank you so much. Well,
then let me ask you more about how we can help
others learn and practice Jesus's way of nonviolence.
I think it's the greatest need in the churches
in the whole world, and that's the greatest failure
of 2 ,000 years of Christians. completely renounced
and failed Jesus on his nonviolence. So here
you are, the head of the Catholic peace group.
This is your job and mission, and it's really
all of ours. So here's some of my questions about
what we can do about that. How do you think we
can help ordinary Catholics and all Christians
here in our country learn Jesus' nonviolence?
And then how can your lifelong catechism How
do we help others teach gospel nonviolence and
the nonviolence of Jesus? How can we help promote
it? And how can we help organize it? Like our
parishes should be more nonviolent. Our priests
need to be more nonviolent, teaching nonviolence.
Our bishops need to be teaching nonviolence.
And we need groups that go out into the streets
and practice nonviolence like Jesus did. So give
us some more tips about what... Catholics and
Christians across the country, our listeners
can do, especially in this time, you know. Absolutely.
Well, one very easy thing is to continue to read
and learn. And so, you know, our website, and
thank you for sharing. the website for us and
for Pax Christi International. You know, find
out what we're doing. Sign up for webinars. Look
at our resources. Utilize them. We have resources
that can be used at a parish level, a personal
level. There are books that we have in our store
that people can purchase and do book talks. and
discuss these things or make it part of a Bible
study that they may be doing that help to support
that. We also have a piece adjacent organizations
that are on our website. You know, we make sure
that we publicize your podcast and others so
that people who might not know about the Nonviolent
Jesus podcast or might not know about Network
or might not know about the Francis. African
Action Network or Marinol or whatever, they can
see, oh, these are supporting organizations.
I can find out some more ways I can help if I
check them out. So it does require effort. You
know, you do have to go out, read, inquire, participate,
attend events as they hear about them. And again,
we're a good resource for that on our website.
So that's one of the things I think that we have
to learn how to trust. God and in our parishes,
think about who don't we know? Who can we extend
ourselves to just to say hello to them at mass?
I mean, that might sound very trite, but it really
isn't because it starts with the little things,
you know? And the better you become at that,
the greater you will be able to do down the road.
So I think that people in their own parishes
beginning to look at and examining How can we
interact and cultivate relationship better with
the people right here in our church? Are we excluding
people intentionally or unintentionally? That's
a form of violence if we do that because we're
denying their dignity. So, you know, those little
things like that, how do we do that? What kind
of language do we use when we, you know, that...
Can we raise our awareness about that, you know,
and take out nonviolent references that are in
our speech that have become so commonplace? Like,
I'm going to target that particular issue. Well,
wait a minute. No, target is not the word you
want to use, you know. And it takes a lot of
discipline and a lot of awareness and intentionality
to do that. And I would also say really be serious
about. What you read in Scripture, I mean, look
for the examples in the Gospels and in the letters
and in the documents of the church that help
us to understand what that means. I mean, just
recently in the World Day of Peace message, Pope
Leo XIV talked about an unarmed and disarming
peace. Read it. Listen to it. Those words were
inspirational in the details that he added to
that and some of the additional documents that
he referred to in that and in all of what he
provides to us continue to reinforce that message
of how necessary, like you were saying, John,
that being peacemakers, being people of peace,
it is key to our Christianity, to our Catholicism,
to have that at the core. Yeah, it was. Beautiful,
the statement that came out on January 1st, 2026.
Peace be with you. We are called to an unarmed
and disarming peace. No pope has ever said that
before. We were trying to get Francis to say
something like that. I think he's some ways gone
forward with Francis, more beyond a little of
Pope Francis. Pax Christi International. which
you and I are part of, has been leading a way
to working with the Vatican to get, we're calling
for an encyclical on nonviolence and getting
the Vatican. to promote and teach the nonviolence
of Jesus around the world. And so much has happened.
Can you give us, we're really running out of
time, but just a little update about the Catholic
Nonviolence Initiative. And folks can learn more
about that. We had Marie Dennis on talking about
it, but at poxchristi .net. Just a little update
about the work with Pope Leo. Well, I am not...
aware right now of the details of that, but I
know that with the Catholic Institute for Nonviolence,
which is the project that Marie is the director
of, again, there's lots of information on there
on the roundtables and the various actions that
they are taking to help not only be informed
by what the Vatican is doing, but to inform people
all over the world. And I do know that they are
in constant contact. with the various dicastery
offices there, dicastery offices, on the encyclical
and other actions. It's a slow process. I mean,
the church, she's slow to change, but she does.
God bless her. We're working on it, Charlene.
Yes, and so that is the work of Pax Christi.
It's the work of Pax Christi, yeah. Yes, yes,
yes. It continues. And I think Pope Leo has welcomed
us very much for that. So, yes, we are definitely
on the same wavelength. You know, when I would
go to those meetings at the Vatican, I just was
shocked about to see. how Pax Christi is promoting
all this great work and having an impact all
around the world, except in the U .S. because
we've moved so far to the right. I'm talking
mainstream cultural U .S. and the church mainstream.
It was very encouraging is all I wanted to say,
Charlene. And I hope all our listeners can, as
Charlene is inviting us, check out PoxChristiUSA
.org and also the global efforts at PoxChristi
.net. We're really out of time and there's so
much more to talk about. So let me ask you to,
you know, in whatever way you want, is there
anything else you'd like to say before we end
or any word of encouragement to our listeners
to keep pursuing the peace of Christ? Yes. As
we know that in scripture, that the story about
not keeping your light under a bushel basket
and and also the references to, you know, one
light can dispel the darkness. That is what we
are. Pox Christi is that light. And I want people
to walk away with, yes, there's a lot of hard
things going on in this country, but there's
a lot of light, too. And Pox Christi is one of
the main entities bringing that light. There
are good things happening. There are changes
being made. And, you know, we are making an impact.
So don't be fooled to think that we're not gaining
ground and things are not. happening for good
and happening for peace in our country. It is
happening. And plug into that. Find out more
about that at poxchristiusa .org. Well, thank
you so much, Charlene Howard, for speaking with
me today. And I hope everybody takes to heart
her admonition to go let your light shine. And
so thanks, friends, for listening to this episode
of the Nonviolent Jesus podcast. You can hear
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