WEBVTT 00:00:15.369 --> 00:00:18.309 Welcome to the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. I'm 00:00:18.309 --> 00:00:20.769 John, Father John Deere, and today I'm speaking 00:00:20.769 --> 00:00:24.109 with my friend, Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. 00:00:24.289 --> 00:00:27.710 This is a project of BeatitudeCenter .org, where 00:00:27.710 --> 00:00:30.289 you can find many other podcasts and regular 00:00:30.289 --> 00:00:32.750 Zoom programs on the nonviolence of Jesus and 00:00:32.750 --> 00:00:35.710 working for peace and justice in a more nonviolent 00:00:35.710 --> 00:00:38.750 world. So we always begin with a little prayer, 00:00:38.850 --> 00:00:41.009 so I just invite everybody just to take a deep 00:00:41.009 --> 00:00:44.340 breath wherever you are. Let's just pause for 00:00:44.340 --> 00:00:47.640 a moment and relax. And I invite you to enter 00:00:47.640 --> 00:00:50.240 into the presence of the God of peace who loves 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:53.759 you infinitely and personally and everyone everywhere. 00:00:54.899 --> 00:00:57.899 And let's take a moment to ask for whatever graces 00:00:57.899 --> 00:01:02.000 to follow the nonviolent Jesus and to do God's 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:07.799 will and to be a peacemaker. Beloved God of peace, 00:01:07.980 --> 00:01:10.739 thank you for all the blessings of life, love, 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:14.150 and peace that you give us. Be with us now as 00:01:14.150 --> 00:01:17.709 we reflect with Jamie. on your call to work for 00:01:17.709 --> 00:01:20.810 a more nonviolent, more just world. Bless us, 00:01:20.890 --> 00:01:24.109 inspire us, disarm us, strengthen us, and send 00:01:24.109 --> 00:01:27.650 us out to do your will, to do our part to help 00:01:27.650 --> 00:01:31.030 end poverty, racism, violence, greed, injustice, 00:01:31.430 --> 00:01:34.329 war, fascism, nuclear weapons, environmental 00:01:34.329 --> 00:01:37.430 destruction, that we might be your holy peacemakers 00:01:37.430 --> 00:01:40.450 and welcome your reign of universal love and 00:01:40.450 --> 00:01:43.959 peace on earth. Amen. It's a great pleasure, 00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:46.700 friends, to welcome my friend, Congressman Jamie 00:01:46.700 --> 00:01:49.659 Raskin, one of the strongest voices and advocates 00:01:49.659 --> 00:01:53.040 for democracy and truth in these insane times. 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:55.840 Jamie represents Maryland's eighth congressional 00:01:55.840 --> 00:01:58.799 district in the House of Representatives. After 00:01:58.799 --> 00:02:01.159 the violent insurrection at the Capitol on January 00:02:01.159 --> 00:02:05.140 6, 2021, he led the second impeachment trial 00:02:05.140 --> 00:02:07.579 of Donald Trump, which ended in the most sweeping 00:02:07.579 --> 00:02:11.020 bipartisan vote to convict and impeach president 00:02:11.020 --> 00:02:14.110 in history. He also served on the committee to 00:02:14.110 --> 00:02:17.370 investigate the January 6th attack. Before that, 00:02:17.490 --> 00:02:19.550 Jamie Raskin was a state senator in Maryland 00:02:19.550 --> 00:02:22.409 where he helped abolish the death penalty and 00:02:22.409 --> 00:02:25.310 gain marriage equality. And before that, he was 00:02:25.310 --> 00:02:28.409 professor of constitutional law at American University 00:02:28.409 --> 00:02:32.409 for more than 25 years. He's authored several 00:02:32.409 --> 00:02:35.050 books, including the New York Times bestseller, 00:02:35.150 --> 00:02:39.379 Unthinkable. Trauma, Truth, and the Trials of 00:02:39.379 --> 00:02:42.379 American Democracy, about the death of his beloved 00:02:42.379 --> 00:02:45.259 son Tommy, followed a few weeks later by the 00:02:45.259 --> 00:02:47.979 January 6th insurrection. Jamie's a graduate 00:02:47.979 --> 00:02:50.460 of Harvard College and Harvard Law School and 00:02:50.460 --> 00:02:53.860 a former editor of the Harvard Law Review. Congressman 00:02:53.860 --> 00:02:56.520 Jamie Raskin, welcome to the Nonviolent Jesus 00:02:56.520 --> 00:03:00.669 podcast. Well, John, I feel like I finally made 00:03:00.669 --> 00:03:05.030 it by getting on your podcast. Thank you for 00:03:05.030 --> 00:03:06.669 having me, man, and thank you for everything 00:03:06.669 --> 00:03:10.129 that you do every day. Well, first of all, thank 00:03:10.129 --> 00:03:13.389 you for all your great leadership on behalf of 00:03:13.389 --> 00:03:15.509 all the country and all your efforts to promote 00:03:15.509 --> 00:03:18.550 democracy, justice, truth, and dare I say, Jamie, 00:03:18.669 --> 00:03:21.650 just plain sanity. I thought we could jump right 00:03:21.650 --> 00:03:23.550 into the deep end together since we don't have 00:03:23.550 --> 00:03:27.319 too much time and just ask you. To give us your 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:29.479 take on what's happening now as we come to the 00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:32.659 end of the year and the first 11 months of the 00:03:32.659 --> 00:03:35.560 second Trump administration, in terms of the 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:39.080 Constitution, democracy, just an overview in 00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:42.819 your own words. Well, we're in the fight of our 00:03:42.819 --> 00:03:46.900 lives, and we have been since the beginning of 00:03:46.900 --> 00:03:51.439 this nightmare. And, you know, the way I feel 00:03:51.439 --> 00:03:54.759 about it is. You know, you can have a good day 00:03:54.759 --> 00:03:58.919 like we had a smashing election with Democratic 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:01.939 victories in Virginia, New York, New Jersey, 00:04:02.080 --> 00:04:05.300 California, Mississippi, Georgia, around the 00:04:05.300 --> 00:04:09.259 country. Or the other day, we totally had a political 00:04:09.259 --> 00:04:12.759 tidal wave wash out Donald Trump's opposition 00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:15.620 to release of the Epstein files. which isn't 00:04:15.620 --> 00:04:17.360 to say it's over because they'll continue to 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:21.439 resist every step of the way. But we had an almost 00:04:21.439 --> 00:04:24.480 unanimous vote in the House and then. a unanimous 00:04:24.480 --> 00:04:26.480 vote very quickly thereafter in the Senate, which 00:04:26.480 --> 00:04:28.519 was precisely what they didn't want. So the way 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:30.319 I think about it is, you can have a great day 00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:32.920 like that, and then you go home, and you go to 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:34.839 sleep, and you wake up, and you start all over 00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:36.860 again at the bottom of the hill. I mean, we are 00:04:36.860 --> 00:04:38.779 not through this thing until we're through this 00:04:38.779 --> 00:04:42.019 thing. But I'll tell you that the forces of democracy 00:04:42.019 --> 00:04:45.259 and freedom and rule of law and moral progress 00:04:45.259 --> 00:04:49.740 for our people are galvanized and mobilizing 00:04:49.740 --> 00:04:53.730 all over the country. And people want to be participating 00:04:53.730 --> 00:04:56.329 in the kinds of victories that they saw in those 00:04:56.329 --> 00:05:00.129 five or six states a couple weeks ago. You know, 00:05:00.170 --> 00:05:02.829 I've been so moved by your passion for democracy. 00:05:03.009 --> 00:05:04.709 I've been with you and heard you speak, and I 00:05:04.709 --> 00:05:07.089 don't know anyone who speaks on behalf of democracy 00:05:07.089 --> 00:05:10.230 like you. So let me just ask you to just to talk 00:05:10.230 --> 00:05:12.610 about that a little, your vision, your hope, 00:05:12.670 --> 00:05:17.470 your aspirations for democracy. Well, thank you 00:05:17.470 --> 00:05:22.339 for saying that, John. I suppose that... My faith 00:05:22.339 --> 00:05:26.120 in democracy and my faith in the people really 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:31.199 is my ultimate foundational irreducible political 00:05:31.199 --> 00:05:34.660 and spiritual faith. And that doesn't mean that 00:05:34.660 --> 00:05:37.319 the people are always right. It doesn't mean 00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:40.319 that the majority is always right. But it does 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:45.199 mean that. popular government and belief in the 00:05:45.199 --> 00:05:48.279 wisdom of crowds is the foundation for the protection 00:05:48.279 --> 00:05:53.149 of people's freedom. moral and spiritual odysseys 00:05:53.149 --> 00:05:56.189 that we're on because the dictators of the world, 00:05:56.269 --> 00:05:59.050 the Vladimir Putins, the Donald Trumps, the Viktor 00:05:59.050 --> 00:06:02.410 Orbans, the Kim Jong -uns, the King Georges, 00:06:02.410 --> 00:06:05.370 the Mussolinis are never going to be protecting 00:06:05.370 --> 00:06:09.149 people's freedoms. So democracy is the precondition 00:06:09.149 --> 00:06:12.949 for freedom. And then democracy itself is not 00:06:12.949 --> 00:06:16.470 just a static collection of rules and procedures 00:06:16.470 --> 00:06:19.720 and rights. Democracy is a project. And it's 00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:24.800 an unfinished draft always. Democracy is always 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:27.540 moving forward. Tocqueville said in Democracy 00:06:27.540 --> 00:06:30.100 in America that democracy and voting rights in 00:06:30.100 --> 00:06:32.540 our country are either shrinking and shriveling 00:06:32.540 --> 00:06:35.370 away or they're growing. expanding. And we've 00:06:35.370 --> 00:06:37.870 clearly been in this terrible contractionary 00:06:37.870 --> 00:06:41.269 mode with the Supreme Court dismantling the Voting 00:06:41.269 --> 00:06:44.149 Rights Act and so many voter suppression and 00:06:44.149 --> 00:06:47.129 disenfranchisement mechanisms being adopted by 00:06:47.129 --> 00:06:49.410 the GOP all over the country. We've got to get 00:06:49.410 --> 00:06:52.250 back on the growth track for democracy because 00:06:52.250 --> 00:06:55.790 democracy is the system that allows every one 00:06:55.790 --> 00:06:58.370 person to have a vote, every one person to have 00:06:58.370 --> 00:07:03.000 a voice. And together we can speak and listen 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:05.759 to each other and reason together. And then that 00:07:05.759 --> 00:07:09.060 provides for the emergence of what Tom Paine 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:11.660 called common sense, the sense we have in common. 00:07:11.740 --> 00:07:14.579 So I view democracy as the system that will give 00:07:14.579 --> 00:07:17.240 each of us individually our freedom, or at least 00:07:17.240 --> 00:07:19.980 has the chance to give us our freedom. It's necessary. 00:07:20.180 --> 00:07:22.600 They're not sufficient. And then also the chance 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:26.459 for common sense to prevail and for the best. 00:07:27.289 --> 00:07:31.389 moral instincts of human beings to emerge and 00:07:31.389 --> 00:07:34.529 prevail. You know, I was with you earlier this 00:07:34.529 --> 00:07:37.829 year in L .A., and you started to talk about 00:07:37.829 --> 00:07:40.449 Thomas Paine, one of the early visionaries of 00:07:40.449 --> 00:07:43.269 the country, the author of Common Sense. And 00:07:43.269 --> 00:07:45.870 I see him referred to in your books. And again, 00:07:46.009 --> 00:07:48.370 I've never heard anybody talk about him in my 00:07:48.370 --> 00:07:51.790 life. Tell me, how can we all be inspired by 00:07:51.790 --> 00:07:54.189 Thomas Paine and his message for today, since 00:07:54.189 --> 00:07:57.290 you've invoked him? Yeah, well, I mean, Tom Paine 00:07:57.290 --> 00:08:01.910 was considered a terrible professional and existential 00:08:01.910 --> 00:08:07.430 failure when he was back over in Europe. And 00:08:07.430 --> 00:08:12.170 he heard about America. And for him, it was tantalizing. 00:08:12.170 --> 00:08:15.430 He felt very stultified in his career. And he 00:08:15.430 --> 00:08:18.970 made a connection with Ben Franklin. um when 00:08:18.970 --> 00:08:22.970 uh he was in europe and uh franklin wrote him 00:08:22.970 --> 00:08:25.310 a letter of introduction and that's what opened 00:08:25.310 --> 00:08:28.629 some doors for him you know when he uh arrived 00:08:28.629 --> 00:08:31.129 in philadelphia and he got to the country in 00:08:31.129 --> 00:08:34.830 1774 two years before the revolution to fall 00:08:34.830 --> 00:08:37.129 in love with the promise of america and he said 00:08:37.129 --> 00:08:40.169 if this land lives up to its real values and 00:08:40.169 --> 00:08:43.730 ideals it will become he said an asylum to humanity 00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:47.980 And not an insane asylum, okay? But a place of 00:08:47.980 --> 00:08:50.899 refuge for people seeking freedom from intellectual 00:08:50.899 --> 00:08:53.879 and religious and political persecution from 00:08:53.879 --> 00:08:56.559 all over the world. And then he threw himself 00:08:56.559 --> 00:08:58.600 into the American Revolution and he wrote Common 00:08:58.600 --> 00:09:03.179 Sense, which became the organizing polemic and 00:09:03.179 --> 00:09:07.919 document of the revolution. I mean, before pain. 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:12.840 Even the most radical revolutionaries like Ben 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:15.379 Franklin or Jefferson, they were talking about 00:09:15.379 --> 00:09:19.700 separation from England and not having a king 00:09:19.700 --> 00:09:23.159 anymore. But they really had not put this in 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:26.320 terms of a shift to a completely different kind 00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:29.460 of government based on what Jefferson would call 00:09:29.460 --> 00:09:32.730 the consent of the governed. We the people is 00:09:32.730 --> 00:09:35.690 the phrase in the Constitution and the unalienable 00:09:35.690 --> 00:09:37.570 rights of the people, life, liberty, and the 00:09:37.570 --> 00:09:42.710 pursuit of happiness. And the proposition that 00:09:42.710 --> 00:09:45.509 everybody's created equal. And of course, a lot 00:09:45.509 --> 00:09:48.909 of those beautiful ideals were absolutely honored 00:09:48.909 --> 00:09:51.009 in the breach at the beginning. I mean, we began 00:09:51.009 --> 00:09:54.429 as a slave republic of Christian white male property 00:09:54.429 --> 00:09:57.509 owners over the age of 21. But because of pain. 00:09:58.789 --> 00:10:01.269 Jefferson and the revolution were able to commit 00:10:01.269 --> 00:10:05.870 those ideals to paper. And they became the organizing 00:10:05.870 --> 00:10:09.289 concepts for every great civilizing movement 00:10:09.289 --> 00:10:12.549 America's ever had, from the abolitionists to 00:10:12.549 --> 00:10:18.169 the suffragettes to the civil rights movement, 00:10:18.350 --> 00:10:21.210 the peace movement, the labor movement, the human 00:10:21.210 --> 00:10:24.649 rights movement, the LGBTQ movement. All of them 00:10:24.649 --> 00:10:27.230 have taken up that call. And as Dr. King said, 00:10:28.139 --> 00:10:33.139 you know, in his speech in Memphis before his 00:10:33.139 --> 00:10:36.179 death, he said, all we say to America is be true 00:10:36.179 --> 00:10:41.360 to what you said on paper. And so we do have 00:10:41.360 --> 00:10:45.620 those organizing ideals and values that we try 00:10:45.620 --> 00:10:49.519 to validate through social and political struggle. 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:52.460 And that's why I say democracy is not just a 00:10:52.460 --> 00:10:55.879 system of rules and rights and values, which 00:10:55.879 --> 00:10:59.169 it is, but it is also. An unfinished draft. It 00:10:59.169 --> 00:11:02.750 is a process in motion. It's a project. And we're 00:11:02.750 --> 00:11:05.909 all invested in it. In Los Angeles, you were 00:11:05.909 --> 00:11:11.350 speaking to us about the Constitution. And you 00:11:11.350 --> 00:11:13.850 were saying it was completely under attack, every 00:11:13.850 --> 00:11:16.250 sentence, and being dismantled very systematically 00:11:16.250 --> 00:11:19.570 as we move into authoritarianism and fascism 00:11:19.570 --> 00:11:23.419 and white supremacy. analyze it in various ways 00:11:23.419 --> 00:11:25.679 i wonder if you could say something about that 00:11:25.679 --> 00:11:28.519 and then your response there you also said that 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:32.360 the hope right now you saw is in the lower courts 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:35.539 who seem to be doing their job and then the grassroots 00:11:35.539 --> 00:11:38.679 movements like the no kings movement and the 00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:41.000 importance of protests and i want you to talk 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:43.759 about that too i mean democracy is the thing 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:47.129 that we all take care of together so um Where 00:11:47.129 --> 00:11:49.309 would we be without the No Kings Movement right 00:11:49.309 --> 00:11:51.350 now? We'd be in a very different place. I mean, 00:11:51.370 --> 00:11:53.669 No Kings Movement set the stage for the great 00:11:53.669 --> 00:11:56.950 electoral victories we had around the country. 00:11:57.529 --> 00:12:00.049 And the rule of law is actually holding very 00:12:00.049 --> 00:12:02.570 strong in the district courts and the appeals 00:12:02.570 --> 00:12:06.129 courts. Our main problem is the utterly gerrymandered 00:12:06.129 --> 00:12:08.470 and stacked and packed and sliced and diced and 00:12:08.470 --> 00:12:11.389 loaded Roberts court. And that's the problem 00:12:11.389 --> 00:12:13.789 we've got to deal with. But yeah, the whole constitution 00:12:13.789 --> 00:12:16.070 is under attack and we need the whole people 00:12:16.070 --> 00:12:18.389 to defend it. I mean, just today, look at what's 00:12:18.389 --> 00:12:24.220 going on. A number of my colleagues. Jason Crow, 00:12:24.500 --> 00:12:26.840 who's in the House, Alyssa Slotkin, who's in 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:29.539 the Senate, a bunch of other ones, released a 00:12:29.539 --> 00:12:34.620 statement as members of Congress and former members 00:12:34.620 --> 00:12:37.100 of armed services. And it was a message that 00:12:37.100 --> 00:12:40.059 they put out to people wearing the uniform saying 00:12:40.059 --> 00:12:43.259 that you've sworn an oath, which is a constitutional 00:12:43.259 --> 00:12:45.659 oath. It's actually in the Constitution calling 00:12:45.659 --> 00:12:50.080 for an oath. for members of Congress, for the 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:52.700 president, and then we use it for everybody else 00:12:52.700 --> 00:12:56.559 down the line. And they said, you've sworn an 00:12:56.559 --> 00:12:59.500 oath to uphold and defend the Constitution against 00:12:59.500 --> 00:13:02.679 all enemies, foreign and domestic. And then they 00:13:02.679 --> 00:13:07.259 - restated the point that members of our military 00:13:07.259 --> 00:13:12.639 have an obligation to disobey and refuse unlawful 00:13:12.639 --> 00:13:14.899 orders. And they said what a difficult time it 00:13:14.899 --> 00:13:16.960 was for them and they know how hard this is, 00:13:17.039 --> 00:13:19.559 but you must maintain your oath to the Constitution. 00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:23.360 Well, Donald Trump read that and then proceeded 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:26.460 to say that this was treason, this was sedition, 00:13:26.539 --> 00:13:30.769 he's retweeting things saying that. This is punishable 00:13:30.769 --> 00:13:33.830 by death. These people should be hanged and so 00:13:33.830 --> 00:13:40.649 on. I mean, this is very basic that we have no 00:13:40.649 --> 00:13:43.730 kings here. In fact, we do not have a supreme 00:13:43.730 --> 00:13:47.190 leader. We have a supreme constitution. And what's 00:13:47.190 --> 00:13:50.450 the president's job? The core of the president's 00:13:50.450 --> 00:13:52.649 job is to take care that the laws are faithfully 00:13:52.649 --> 00:13:56.799 executed. That's all. You know, sometimes my 00:13:56.799 --> 00:13:58.059 colleagues will get up and say, you know, Mr. 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:00.440 President, stop doing this. Stop trampling the 00:14:00.440 --> 00:14:02.860 Constitution. We're a co -equal branch over here 00:14:02.860 --> 00:14:05.159 in Congress. And it just infuriates me, John. 00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:07.379 I get up and I say, actually, no, we're not a 00:14:07.379 --> 00:14:09.909 co -equal branch. First of all. Co -equals not 00:14:09.909 --> 00:14:13.350 even a word. Okay, that's like extremely unique 00:14:13.350 --> 00:14:16.309 or something like that. But you're saying we're 00:14:16.309 --> 00:14:19.549 an equal branch. No, we are the Article I branch. 00:14:19.909 --> 00:14:22.169 We are the lawmaking branch. I mean, you start 00:14:22.169 --> 00:14:24.610 with the preamble to the Constitution. We, the 00:14:24.610 --> 00:14:26.090 people of the United States, in order to form 00:14:26.090 --> 00:14:28.490 a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure 00:14:28.490 --> 00:14:30.769 domestic tranquility, provide for the common 00:14:30.769 --> 00:14:33.750 defense, promote the general welfare. preserve 00:14:33.750 --> 00:14:35.269 to ourselves and our posterity the blessings 00:14:35.269 --> 00:14:37.509 of liberty do hereby ordain and establish the 00:14:37.509 --> 00:14:39.450 Constitution of the United States. That sets 00:14:39.450 --> 00:14:41.950 up the Constitution. It sets up the government. 00:14:42.169 --> 00:14:44.289 It sets up the country. And the very next sentence 00:14:44.289 --> 00:14:48.419 flows into Article 1, and it says, All legislative 00:14:48.419 --> 00:14:52.320 power is vested in a Congress of the United States. 00:14:52.580 --> 00:14:55.120 And then it just lays out all the powers we've 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:57.179 got, all the powers that Donald Trump has been 00:14:57.179 --> 00:15:00.220 usurping. We've got the power to impose taxes 00:15:00.220 --> 00:15:02.659 and tariffs, not Donald Trump. We've got the 00:15:02.659 --> 00:15:05.139 power to declare war if there's gonna be war, 00:15:05.340 --> 00:15:09.120 not a president who thinks he's a king and so 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:12.340 on, right? And so - The president's job is to 00:15:12.340 --> 00:15:16.059 take care that the laws we pass are faithfully 00:15:16.059 --> 00:15:18.759 executed. And so a lot of what we're trying to 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:21.559 make happen now is just to restore that basic 00:15:21.559 --> 00:15:26.740 constitutional balance. So say something to our 00:15:26.740 --> 00:15:30.360 listeners, mainly activists and people of faith 00:15:30.360 --> 00:15:33.039 and conscience around the country involved probably 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:36.980 for many years on, you know, that their part. 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:39.740 about taking to the streets, continuing to organize, 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:42.240 continuing to build up No Kings, and all the 00:15:42.240 --> 00:15:45.419 other kinds of protests, is really important 00:15:45.419 --> 00:15:49.039 as balance to what you're doing to uphold the 00:15:49.039 --> 00:15:52.259 Constitution and promote democracy. In other 00:15:52.259 --> 00:15:55.240 words, what would your message be to ordinary 00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:58.559 people who are in the streets, who feel so helpless 00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:00.919 but are marching and wonder if it makes a difference? 00:16:01.690 --> 00:16:04.950 Well, I went to the last No Kings March. I accepted 00:16:04.950 --> 00:16:06.950 an invitation to go speak at the Philadelphia 00:16:06.950 --> 00:16:09.490 March, and it was awesome. It was right out in 00:16:09.490 --> 00:16:13.649 front of Constitution Hall, where the Declaration 00:16:13.649 --> 00:16:16.690 was signed, where the Constitution was written. 00:16:16.950 --> 00:16:19.429 And I said, you know, none of us is going to 00:16:19.429 --> 00:16:24.710 be founding fathers in the 18th century, but 00:16:24.710 --> 00:16:27.750 all of us can be founding fighters in the 21st 00:16:27.750 --> 00:16:31.100 century. That is, we're going to have to renew 00:16:31.100 --> 00:16:34.059 the social compact and the social contract. We 00:16:34.059 --> 00:16:37.379 have to build on the constitution we have to 00:16:37.379 --> 00:16:40.220 toughen it up in many places, make it much stronger, 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:44.720 more resilient and more durable against. authoritarian, 00:16:44.720 --> 00:16:48.740 autocratic, theocratic, plutocratic elite attack. 00:16:49.299 --> 00:16:52.639 We're going to have to strengthen our Constitution 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:55.220 and strengthen the rule of law. I mean, Donald 00:16:55.220 --> 00:16:58.399 Trump has absolutely dissolved the boundary between 00:16:58.399 --> 00:17:01.840 the presidency and private moneymaking. That 00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:04.940 was one of the original walls of separation that 00:17:04.940 --> 00:17:08.140 was built into the Constitution, right? Article 00:17:08.140 --> 00:17:13.980 1, Section 9. says that none of us in public 00:17:13.980 --> 00:17:16.740 office, including the president, can receive 00:17:16.740 --> 00:17:19.119 a present and emolument, which means a payment 00:17:19.119 --> 00:17:22.519 in office or title of any kind, whatever, from 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:25.539 a king, prince, or foreign state without the 00:17:25.539 --> 00:17:28.140 express consent of Congress. And now that's been 00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:32.559 completely trampled. And the Constitution also 00:17:32.559 --> 00:17:35.299 says that the president may receive only his 00:17:35.299 --> 00:17:38.839 salary in office and nothing more and nothing 00:17:38.839 --> 00:17:42.309 less. And Donald Trump, has just gone into business 00:17:42.309 --> 00:17:45.230 and he's just destroyed that idea that the presidency 00:17:45.230 --> 00:17:49.609 is not a for -profit money -making proposition. 00:17:49.730 --> 00:17:52.470 So we're going to have to really rebuild the 00:17:52.470 --> 00:17:55.190 constitutional and legal architecture around 00:17:55.190 --> 00:17:57.450 that, just to give you one example. I mean, another 00:17:57.450 --> 00:18:01.589 is the separation of church and state is constantly 00:18:01.589 --> 00:18:05.109 under attack now. I mean, one of the reasons 00:18:05.109 --> 00:18:08.250 why... we have such beautiful religious and spiritual 00:18:08.250 --> 00:18:11.150 traditions here in America is because it's not 00:18:11.150 --> 00:18:14.349 run by a king or by the government or by the 00:18:14.349 --> 00:18:16.690 state, but they're constantly trying to bulldoze 00:18:16.690 --> 00:18:19.049 that wall. I had a colleague who got up on the 00:18:19.049 --> 00:18:22.470 floor of the house, John, who said, he said the 00:18:22.470 --> 00:18:26.490 moral downfall of America was in 1962 in Engel 00:18:26.490 --> 00:18:29.269 versus Vitale when the Supreme Court banned prayer 00:18:29.269 --> 00:18:32.470 in the public schools. And I got up and I said, 00:18:32.509 --> 00:18:34.250 you know what? The Supreme Court never banned 00:18:34.250 --> 00:18:36.890 prayer in the public schools. As long as there 00:18:36.890 --> 00:18:40.450 are pop math quizzes, there will be prayer in 00:18:40.450 --> 00:18:42.750 the public schools. And as long as Donald Trump 00:18:42.750 --> 00:18:44.730 is president, there will be prayer in the public 00:18:44.730 --> 00:18:47.789 schools. But, you know, it doesn't end with these 00:18:47.789 --> 00:18:51.049 people. Texas, Louisiana recently voted to endorse 00:18:51.049 --> 00:18:53.849 the Ten Commandments and post them in every classroom. 00:18:54.029 --> 00:18:55.730 They didn't say which Ten Commandments because 00:18:55.730 --> 00:18:58.990 I found about 50 different versions of it online. 00:18:59.170 --> 00:19:00.789 There are a lot of different versions. But in 00:19:00.789 --> 00:19:03.329 any event, I knew my colleagues would come in 00:19:03.329 --> 00:19:05.569 as they did in the Judiciary Committee, the Oversight 00:19:05.569 --> 00:19:07.809 Committee. And they say, we need to endorse the 00:19:07.809 --> 00:19:10.390 Ten Commandments. We need to post the Ten Commandments. 00:19:10.450 --> 00:19:13.069 And I say, well, you know, the Ten Commandments 00:19:13.069 --> 00:19:15.740 seem to have been doing fine. for millennia without 00:19:15.740 --> 00:19:17.839 an endorsement by the House of Representatives, 00:19:18.099 --> 00:19:21.000 without endorsement by the Freedom Caucus. No, 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:23.400 this one guy tells me, I got confused here, John. 00:19:23.500 --> 00:19:25.940 He says, well, you know the Ten Commandments 00:19:25.940 --> 00:19:29.009 are the basis for the Bill of Rights. And it 00:19:29.009 --> 00:19:30.910 was confusing because I said, well, I mean, I 00:19:30.910 --> 00:19:33.450 know there's 10 in each one. That's true. But 00:19:33.450 --> 00:19:36.190 like, let's test the proposition. The first commandment 00:19:36.190 --> 00:19:38.509 says, thou shall have no other God before me. 00:19:38.650 --> 00:19:41.009 And the first amendment says, Congress shall 00:19:41.009 --> 00:19:43.509 make no law respecting an establishment of religion. 00:19:43.769 --> 00:19:46.069 But they wanted, we went to the rules committee. 00:19:46.130 --> 00:19:48.589 They want an up or down vote. On the entire Ten 00:19:48.589 --> 00:19:50.250 Commandments, I said, you know what? If we're 00:19:50.250 --> 00:19:51.910 going to vote on the Ten Commandments, we should 00:19:51.910 --> 00:19:53.589 have to vote on each commandment separately, 00:19:53.950 --> 00:19:56.910 okay, and not the omnibus package that they're 00:19:56.910 --> 00:19:58.750 working on. And you shouldn't be able to vote 00:19:58.750 --> 00:20:01.049 for any commandment you yourself have ever violated 00:20:01.049 --> 00:20:03.170 because then you'll be taking the name more in 00:20:03.170 --> 00:20:05.910 vain. I'm getting a headache thinking of that. 00:20:07.009 --> 00:20:09.890 So, Jamie, you know, you both, you and I are 00:20:09.890 --> 00:20:14.410 very devoted to Martin Luther King Jr. And recently 00:20:14.410 --> 00:20:18.789 I spoke with Andrew Young. and even Joan Baez, 00:20:18.829 --> 00:20:20.849 who was a very close friend of his. You know, 00:20:20.910 --> 00:20:24.730 I've been spending my life teaching Kingian nonviolence, 00:20:24.750 --> 00:20:27.269 and even saying nonviolence is at the heart of 00:20:27.269 --> 00:20:29.250 all the religions of the world, but especially 00:20:29.250 --> 00:20:31.710 I'm trying to get Christians to realize that 00:20:31.710 --> 00:20:35.299 Jesus was nonviolence. I think as things continue 00:20:35.299 --> 00:20:38.019 to get worse and collapsing, that nonviolence 00:20:38.019 --> 00:20:40.359 is needed now more than ever. I mean, even with 00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:43.339 the threats of nuclear weapons and catastrophic 00:20:43.339 --> 00:20:46.380 climate change. I wondered if you might say a 00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:50.319 word or two about the role of people who are 00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:53.099 teaching and promoting and strategizing and organizing 00:20:53.099 --> 00:20:55.740 along Kingian nonviolence and Christian nonviolence 00:20:55.740 --> 00:20:57.519 and how important that is everywhere in this 00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:01.329 country as it's collapsing. Well, I think that's 00:21:01.329 --> 00:21:03.410 the whole thing. And that's why I love your work 00:21:03.410 --> 00:21:05.390 so much. I mean, I think this is the essence 00:21:05.390 --> 00:21:12.309 of it. I mean, you know, democracy and the rule 00:21:12.309 --> 00:21:15.289 of law, which supports democracy, which supports 00:21:15.289 --> 00:21:20.289 in turn freedom. Democracy is the system which 00:21:20.289 --> 00:21:26.450 relies on nonviolent verbal expression and conflict 00:21:26.450 --> 00:21:31.640 resolution as opposed to. violent assault. And 00:21:31.640 --> 00:21:34.720 at least so I would argue, and so you would argue, 00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:40.900 and I think everybody who wants our best religious 00:21:40.900 --> 00:21:43.980 traditions to be embodied in political democracy. 00:21:44.539 --> 00:21:48.519 But there's another tradition too. Donald Trump 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:54.980 now is the standard bearer, right? For him, he 00:21:54.980 --> 00:21:56.420 gets an office and the first thing he wants to 00:21:56.420 --> 00:22:00.950 do is to begin to unleash the militia, invoke 00:22:00.950 --> 00:22:04.569 the National Guard to go and attack people in 00:22:04.569 --> 00:22:09.109 their communities and to use ICE to show up with 00:22:09.109 --> 00:22:14.509 masked officers in unmarked cars to conduct warrantless 00:22:14.509 --> 00:22:18.750 arrests against people who have not committed 00:22:18.750 --> 00:22:22.230 any crimes, and many of whom now turn out to 00:22:22.230 --> 00:22:27.269 be citizens. But in any event, basically he's 00:22:27.269 --> 00:22:30.380 saying, well, Democracy is the system where the 00:22:30.380 --> 00:22:32.900 guy who's got the most money can get into office 00:22:32.900 --> 00:22:36.279 and use it to make more money and then unleash 00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:40.420 the violent powers of the state against vulnerable 00:22:40.420 --> 00:22:45.480 communities. And the other tradition is the Kingian 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.420 tradition, which I think goes back to Tom Paine 00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:51.039 and abolitionists and the suffragists and so 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:55.920 on, which is that no, democracy is the constant 00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:59.579 progress. towards a more perfect union, towards 00:22:59.579 --> 00:23:02.700 greater inclusion, greater participation, and 00:23:02.700 --> 00:23:05.799 greater dignity for everybody, uplifting people 00:23:05.799 --> 00:23:09.019 rather than tearing people down. And so that's 00:23:09.019 --> 00:23:11.299 the fight that we're in today. Like, what will 00:23:11.299 --> 00:23:15.220 the meaning of democracy be? Will democracy survive 00:23:15.220 --> 00:23:17.980 against all the autocrats and dictators? You 00:23:17.980 --> 00:23:19.880 know, Jamie, I found this quote, I don't know 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:23.059 if I ever told you, from Gandhi around early 00:23:23.059 --> 00:23:28.460 1930, 32. before World War II, where he says 00:23:28.460 --> 00:23:30.819 democracy is supposed to be expanding, as you're 00:23:30.819 --> 00:23:33.759 saying, welcoming, you know, getting bigger and 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:38.200 widening and moving toward nonviolence, that 00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:40.180 we're ultimately moving toward a nonviolent democracy. 00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:44.559 If it doesn't, Gandhi said before Hitler, it 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:47.420 has to move toward fascism. What do you think 00:23:47.420 --> 00:23:49.819 of that? Isn't that brilliant? Well, I mean, 00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:53.059 I think that's sort of like the sentiment expressed 00:23:53.059 --> 00:23:55.539 by Tocqueville. I was talking about before where 00:23:55.539 --> 00:23:59.279 he said, democracy is either shrinking and shriveling 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:01.220 away and moving into another form of government 00:24:01.220 --> 00:24:03.579 or it's expanding and growing. We gotta get back 00:24:03.579 --> 00:24:06.359 on the growth track. I mean, this is why I say, 00:24:06.420 --> 00:24:10.259 look, hey, it's 2025. How about we start electing 00:24:10.259 --> 00:24:12.740 the president? the way we elect governors and 00:24:12.740 --> 00:24:14.539 representatives and senators and mayors and everybody 00:24:14.539 --> 00:24:17.220 else, whoever gets the most votes wins. We don't 00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:19.640 need an anti -democratic system of electing a 00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:21.720 president. And it was something I agree with 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:24.180 Trump about. He says statehood, but I'm not talking 00:24:24.180 --> 00:24:26.680 about Canada and Greenland and Panama, which 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:29.059 haven't sought admission to America. I'm talking 00:24:29.059 --> 00:24:32.599 about 713 ,000 taxpaying, draftable citizens 00:24:32.599 --> 00:24:35.319 in Washington, D .C., or three and a half million 00:24:35.319 --> 00:24:38.599 U .S. citizens in Puerto Rico. Like these people. 00:24:39.069 --> 00:24:42.609 need to be admitted as states. DC has petitioned 00:24:42.609 --> 00:24:46.750 for admission as union in two and three congresses 00:24:46.750 --> 00:24:49.950 ago. We passed DC statehood. I was the floor 00:24:49.950 --> 00:24:52.450 leader. with Eleanor Holmes Norton. I got up 00:24:52.450 --> 00:24:55.829 and I said, I wanna thank the residents of Washington 00:24:55.829 --> 00:24:59.029 who have a genuine political grievance against 00:24:59.029 --> 00:25:01.829 the Congress, but didn't come down here and beat 00:25:01.829 --> 00:25:03.930 the daylights out of our police officers and 00:25:03.930 --> 00:25:06.509 put them in the hospital and give people heart 00:25:06.509 --> 00:25:09.710 attacks and strokes and fractured skulls. They 00:25:09.710 --> 00:25:11.690 did it the right way. They've petitioned for 00:25:11.690 --> 00:25:13.630 admission to the union. And why would we not 00:25:13.630 --> 00:25:16.990 admit them the way we've admitted 37 other states 00:25:16.990 --> 00:25:20.109 since the original 13? And I'm speaking as a 00:25:20.109 --> 00:25:22.299 - congressman from one of those original 13. 00:25:22.579 --> 00:25:25.640 We are both a star and a stripe on the flag, 00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:28.720 but I'm proud to say we've always supported the 00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:31.759 admission of other states. So we should not be 00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:34.819 ruling over people without their own participation. 00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:38.759 Let me ask you then, just a word, and it's hard 00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.299 to even bring it up, Jamie, but about January 00:25:42.299 --> 00:25:46.200 6th, 2021, in your big New York Times, I think 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:49.259 it was number one. bestseller, your book, Unthinkable, 00:25:49.299 --> 00:25:51.559 Trauma, Truth, and the Trials of American Democracy. 00:25:52.339 --> 00:25:54.420 You share about your own battle with cancer, 00:25:54.599 --> 00:25:56.920 the death of your beloved son, Tommy, and then 00:25:56.920 --> 00:26:00.160 just a few weeks later, the January 6th insurrection. 00:26:00.700 --> 00:26:02.880 You were in your office with your daughter and 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:05.220 son -in -law under the table, and you said it 00:26:05.220 --> 00:26:10.019 was the most horrific day ever. What do you think 00:26:10.019 --> 00:26:12.220 about now when you think about those times, and 00:26:12.220 --> 00:26:15.059 what did you learn? For example, a lot of those 00:26:15.059 --> 00:26:17.710 people who attacked The building you were in 00:26:17.710 --> 00:26:22.210 had been pardoned. And anyway, or do you not 00:26:22.210 --> 00:26:24.470 think about it that much? Do you just keep plowing 00:26:24.470 --> 00:26:28.730 your head? No, I do think about it a lot, John. 00:26:28.829 --> 00:26:31.690 I mean, because it's like Faulkner said, the 00:26:31.690 --> 00:26:35.690 past isn't dead. It isn't even past. You know, 00:26:35.690 --> 00:26:41.769 Trump pardoned nearly 1 ,600 of the insurrectionists 00:26:41.769 --> 00:26:44.779 the day he got back in. So it violated... the 00:26:44.779 --> 00:26:46.680 basic principle of pardons, which is you look 00:26:46.680 --> 00:26:49.279 at each person's individual case, you see whether 00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:51.980 they've repaid their debt to society. Are they 00:26:51.980 --> 00:26:54.500 showing contrition? Are they showing repentance? 00:26:54.740 --> 00:26:56.579 Are they showing rehabilitation? He just did 00:26:56.579 --> 00:26:59.480 a mass pardon of everybody, not because they 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:02.599 were innocent, but just because he wanted to 00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:06.559 create a private militia for himself going forward. 00:27:06.700 --> 00:27:11.940 So not only in there were people who were armed 00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:16.400 robbers, drug dealers, gun traffickers, child 00:27:16.400 --> 00:27:20.319 sex abusers. But after he pardoned them, there 00:27:20.319 --> 00:27:24.480 has been a spate of crimes committed by these 00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:28.380 people. And I read off a whole list of them yesterday 00:27:28.380 --> 00:27:32.619 in the Judiciary Committee. There are armed robberies 00:27:32.619 --> 00:27:34.960 taking place, there are home invasions, there 00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:37.759 are burglaries, more child sex abuse materials, 00:27:38.180 --> 00:27:43.660 on and on. simply because this wasn't a pardon 00:27:43.660 --> 00:27:47.640 based on proper mercy, either because they were 00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:52.019 innocent, none of them were, but it was not for 00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:54.880 that, nor was it for the fact that they had somehow 00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:59.720 repented of their offenses and asked for forgiveness 00:27:59.720 --> 00:28:02.339 and wanted to be rebonded as society. They're 00:28:02.339 --> 00:28:05.380 utterly unrepentant and think that they've done 00:28:05.380 --> 00:28:08.140 nothing wrong and essentially are available to 00:28:08.140 --> 00:28:12.059 try to be of service to Donald Trump again in 00:28:12.059 --> 00:28:16.660 the future. So it was a horrific day. And we 00:28:16.660 --> 00:28:19.500 can never forget that the violent insurrection 00:28:19.500 --> 00:28:22.500 was surrounding an inside political coup. The 00:28:22.500 --> 00:28:25.640 idea was to coerce Vice President Mike Pence 00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:31.660 to say that he was going to reject the electoral 00:28:31.660 --> 00:28:34.299 college votes from a number of states, including 00:28:34.299 --> 00:28:38.480 Georgia and Arizona and Pennsylvania and Michigan. 00:28:39.279 --> 00:28:42.539 which he had no power to do, and then declare 00:28:42.539 --> 00:28:45.400 either that Trump had won or that there was no 00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:47.599 majority in the Electoral College, and then it 00:28:47.599 --> 00:28:49.319 would be referred to the House of Representatives 00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:52.680 for a vote. And in that so -called contingent 00:28:52.680 --> 00:28:56.180 election, we'd be voting on the basis of one 00:28:56.180 --> 00:28:58.920 state, one vote, rather than one member, one 00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:01.460 vote, and the Republicans controlled more states. 00:29:01.779 --> 00:29:04.019 So they knew either way that was going to lead 00:29:04.019 --> 00:29:07.220 to a victory for them, and Pence refused to go 00:29:07.220 --> 00:29:10.470 along with the plan. which is why the insurrectionists 00:29:10.470 --> 00:29:14.089 were chanting, hang Mike Pence, hang Mike Pence. 00:29:14.210 --> 00:29:16.670 I can still hear it like it was yesterday. And 00:29:16.670 --> 00:29:19.710 he got chased out of the building. And there 00:29:19.710 --> 00:29:24.029 was mass bloodshed with 140 officers wounded 00:29:24.029 --> 00:29:27.250 and hospitalized and disfigured and disabled. 00:29:27.869 --> 00:29:32.089 But there was a method to the madness. The violence 00:29:32.089 --> 00:29:36.460 wasn't just to unleash all of this fury. against 00:29:36.460 --> 00:29:39.720 Congress. It was actually to effectuate Donald 00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:42.539 Trump's overthrow of the presidential election, 00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:45.420 which Biden had won by more than 7 million votes, 00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.819 306 to 232 in the Electoral College. So it is 00:29:48.819 --> 00:29:53.180 a struggle between constitutional democracy in 00:29:53.180 --> 00:29:56.880 America and authoritarianism. Jamie, since we 00:29:56.880 --> 00:29:59.839 only have a minute or two left. What sustains 00:29:59.839 --> 00:30:02.539 you these days? How do you remain hopeful as 00:30:02.539 --> 00:30:06.220 you keep leading us forward in pursuit of democracy? 00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:11.980 Well, we've got a lot of wonderful children in 00:30:11.980 --> 00:30:14.500 our family. Yes, you do. And nothing can take 00:30:14.500 --> 00:30:18.099 my mind off of Donald Trump and MAGA more than 00:30:18.099 --> 00:30:21.299 being with the kids. And the truth is that I 00:30:21.299 --> 00:30:25.099 am. I'm out organizing all of the time. I mean, 00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:28.180 we need to take Congress back. I'm the ranking 00:30:28.180 --> 00:30:30.279 member of the House Judiciary Committee. I'll 00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:31.940 be the chair of the House Judiciary Committee. 00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:35.099 When we win Congress back next year, it's less 00:30:35.099 --> 00:30:37.960 than a year away. And everybody needs to incorporate 00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:41.220 in whatever other organizing they're doing and 00:30:41.220 --> 00:30:44.759 whatever other work they're doing, voter registration 00:30:44.759 --> 00:30:49.930 and mobilizing people to be engaged in. the process 00:30:49.930 --> 00:30:52.910 of democracy. Do you have any final word of encouragement 00:30:52.910 --> 00:30:58.390 for our listeners? Well, I derive great encouragement 00:30:58.390 --> 00:31:00.829 from what you're doing, John, every day. When 00:31:00.829 --> 00:31:04.049 I was growing up, my father used to say, when 00:31:04.049 --> 00:31:06.569 everything looks hopeless, you're the hope. And 00:31:06.569 --> 00:31:10.410 so everybody go out there and be the hope for 00:31:10.410 --> 00:31:14.349 other people who need you. And undoubtedly, there 00:31:14.349 --> 00:31:16.750 are many who need the sustenance of your friendship 00:31:16.750 --> 00:31:19.319 and your love. Well, thank you so much, Jamie 00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:21.579 Raskin, for speaking with me today. And thank 00:31:21.579 --> 00:31:24.160 you, friends, for listening to another episode 00:31:24.160 --> 00:31:26.640 of the Nonviolent Jesus podcast. You can hear 00:31:26.640 --> 00:31:30.039 more podcasts and find other upcoming Zoom programs 00:31:30.039 --> 00:31:34.019 at BeatitudesCenter .org. And you can also sign 00:31:34.019 --> 00:31:39.019 up there to receive a free... e -blast with upcoming 00:31:39.019 --> 00:31:43.920 news about future podcasts and Zoom programs. 00:31:44.339 --> 00:31:47.700 If you can, please offer a donation to support 00:31:47.700 --> 00:31:50.539 this free work and leave some positive feedback 00:31:50.539 --> 00:31:53.740 at whatever platform you use, and also help spread 00:31:53.740 --> 00:31:56.039 the word by telling friends about this project. 00:31:56.279 --> 00:32:00.079 So may the God of peace bless you, and keep on 00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:02.440 following the nonviolent Jesus. See you next 00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:02.740 time.