Welcome to the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. I'm
John, Fr. John Deere, and today I'm speaking
with my friend, Archbishop John Wester of the
Archdiocese of Santa Fe, New Mexico. This is
a project of www .beatitudescenter .org, where
you can find many other podcasts and regular
Zoom programs on the nonviolence of Jesus and
practicing nonviolence and working for a more
just, more nonviolent world. So let's begin with
a little prayer as usual, and I invite our listeners,
wherever you are, just to take a deep breath
and to relax and recenter yourselves and enter
again into the presence of the God of peace who
loves you infinitely and personally and everyone
everywhere. And let's welcome the nonviolent
Jesus here with us and ask for the grace to follow
the nonviolent Jesus more faithfully and do God's
will. God of peace, thank you for all the blessings
of life, love, and peace that you give us. Be
with us now as we reflect together on your call
to follow the nonviolent Jesus and work for a
more nonviolent, more just world. Bless us, inspire
us, disarm us, strengthen us, and send us out
to do your will and to do our part to help end
poverty, racism, greed, injustice, war, and especially
nuclear weapons and environmental destruction.
that we might be your holy beatitude people,
your holy peacemakers, and welcome your reign
of universal love, nonviolence, and peace on
earth. In Jesus' name, amen. It's a pleasure
to welcome my great friend, Archbishop John Wester
of the Archdiocese of Santa Fe, New Mexico, which
takes up most of the state. And he's talking
with us from his office in Albuquerque, New Mexico
on January 11th, 2022. I think he changed the
U .S. Catholic Church when he issued a major
document, a pastoral letter called Living in
the Light of Christ's Peace, A Conversation Toward
Nuclear Disarmament. It's the first official
document in U .S. church history calling for
the total abolition of nuclear weapons. And what's
more, it comes from the land where the atomic
bomb was invented and where all nuclear weapons
ever since have continued to be made and maintained.
at Los Alamos, New Mexico. Here's a quote from
the letter. We can no longer deny or ignore the
dangerous predicament we have created for ourselves
with a new nuclear arms race, one that is arguably
more dangerous than the past Cold War. In the
face of increasing threats from Russia, China,
and elsewhere, I point out that a nuclear arms
race is inherently self -perpetuating, a vicious
spiral that prompts progressively destabilizing
actions and reactions by all parties, including
our own country. We need nuclear arms control,
not an escalating nuclear arms race. Further,
we need to figure out concrete steps toward abolishing
nuclear weapons and permanently ending the nuclear
threat. If we care about humanity, if we care
about our planet, if we care about the God of
peace and human conscience, then we must start
a public conversation on these urgent questions
and find a new path toward nuclear disarmament.
I invite all of us to step into the light of
Christ and walk together toward a new future
of peace, a new promised land of peace, a new
culture of peace and nonviolence, where we all
might learn to live in peace as sisters and brothers
on this beautiful planet. common home. If you
haven't read or seen the document, I urge you
to go to his Archdiocesan website and read it.
It's all there at www, I'll say it and then spell
it, archdiosf .org. That's A -R -C -H -D -I -O
-S -F dot O -R -G. And Pax Christi has published
a beautiful hard copy of it, which you could
get. Archbishop John Wester became Archbishop
of the Archdiocese of Santa Fe, New Mexico in
2015. Before that, he served as the Bishop of
Salt Lake City, and before that, the Auxiliary
Bishop of San Francisco. Last month, so I'm not
sure when this will post, but in August 2025,
he led an historic delegation of U .S. bishops
and cardinals. to Japan to mark the 80th anniversary
of the U .S. atomic bombing of Hiroshima and
Japan. I haven't talked to him myself about the
trip, which he called a pilgrimage of peace,
so I'm happy to have him here and eager to hear
about it. Archbishop John Wester, welcome to
the Nonviolent Jesus podcast. Thank you. Thank
you, John, very much. It's so good to be with
you again. Thank you. So before we get into the
story of your past August trip for the 80th anniversary,
In the pastoral letter, the first page, you tell
about your first trip to Hiroshima. And it's
an amazing, powerful story because there you
are one day in Hiroshima at their atomic bomb
museum. And the next day you're back at Santa
Fe and you have company and you go up to Los
Alamos and you visit the U .S. Atomic Bomb Museum.
Tell everybody about that day. Well, it was an
eye -opener for me, John, because I was fresh
in my mind and heart that I visited Japan, my
first one in 2017, and seeing the devastation,
the human suffering untold, hard to describe
human suffering that took place in Hiroshima
and Nagasaki. in august of 1945 and then coming
back to santa fe and just really um maybe 100
200 yards from palace avenue where the scientists
went in the front door and went out the back
door and got on a bus up to los alamos and invented
the atomic bomb and and so i realized my goodness
i've seen both sides both ends of this the where
it began and where it was and the only time it
was detonated in a civilian population like that.
And so it just struck me that I really felt strongly
that the Lord was prompting me to do something
about this, to make this more known and to have
a voice at the table in talking about multilateral
verifiable nuclear disarmament. So you've just
returned again for the August 6th to 9th, 80th
anniversary of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. You went
with Cardinal McElroy, Cardinal Cupich, the Archbishop
of Seattle, and apparently lots of students and
faculty from Notre Dame, Marquette. I'm not sure
where else. So take your time and tell us about
the whole trip and what it was like and what
you hoped from it and where the next steps are.
Well, yes, it's hard to describe in one sense.
It's the 80th commemoration of the bombing in
1945 of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. And so it's not
exactly a happy moment. And there were a lot
of hibakusha there, as your listeners know, I'm
sure, the survivors of the bomb. Archbishop Takami,
whom you know, John, he's a wonderful man and
he's a great guy. And he was in his mother's
womb in Nagasaki when it was bombed. And he has
a doctor friend who was older and there was many,
most of them now, you know, probably around 10,
11, 12 years old or so when this happened. And
so it was a coming together of many peoples from
many backgrounds. for many reasons, to commemorate
this moment. And really, the basic message is
to commemorate it so that we can advocate that
it never happens again, that our world is safe
from these horrendous, incredibly destructive
weapons, far more destructive than they were
in 1945. and far more dangerous with artificial
intelligence and hypersonic delivery systems
and just the state of the world today and this
very difficult time we're living in. So clearly
there was a lot of purpose to our meeting. It
was not just to commemorate the past, but it
was really to preserve the present and to build
for the future. This is our pilgrimage of faith,
you know, trying to do all those things. And
it was wonderful to come in with a lot of liturgies,
a lot of speeches. We had the, as you mentioned,
John, we had the students, which was really encouraging,
a lot, about 30 students from the United States
and Japan, and mainly from Loyola in Chicago,
and a couple students from... in New Mexico,
UNM, and also Notre Dame University. And their
professors came with them, some of them, and
it was just wonderful to have their presence.
They were taking it all in. And I'll be 75 in
a month or two. And I was admiring these students
sitting through these speeches after speeches.
We like to give speeches. But they were all taking
it in and going to the museums and celebrating
the liturgies with us. And really, I think it
was very moving to see them as they began to
see in a more visceral, palpable way what we're
talking about with nuclear weapons. You know,
we've been given a narrative for so long, so
many decades. that nuclear weapons are the keepers
of the peace. And so people, when they hear nuclear
weapons today, they think, oh, yes, that's deterrence,
isn't it? That's what's keeping us keeping the
peace. Well, that narrative is not one that I
agree with and that many of us agree with. And
certainly you, John, and your wonderful work
with peacemaking and the gospel of peace and
the Beatitude Center have promoted that same
message that we've been lulled. into that sense
that nuclear weapons are keeping us safe. When
in fact, nuclear weapons are really the biggest
threat, really, if you think about it, on a large
scale that we face in the world today. And the
very thing that we're told is going to keep us
safe is really the biggest threat to humanity
that we have in human civilization. And so this
is part of our message to get that across to
our young people, to everybody. who will listen,
that we need to remember this so that we never
underestimate the power of nuclear weapons, the
threat of nuclear weapons, and how important
it is to advocate for their complete abolition
in our world, for verifiable multilateral disarmament.
And so that was Cardinal McElroy and Cardinal
Cupich both gave excellent talks. I gave a talk,
Archbishop Etchin from Seattle gave a talk. We
have many from Japan, obviously, that gave wonderful
talks. We had translators there. And different
religions, representing different religions,
giving talks. We had an interfaith meeting. We
have it every year. And Archbishop Takami is
now the head of it, this interfaith committee
that meets every year for a symposium in the
afternoon and then followed with a dinner. And
so it was a wonderful opportunity. We've become
good friends with the Bishop Shirahama of Hiroshima
and Bishop Nakamura of Nagasaki. And as I say,
Archbishop Takami, Archbishop Nakamura and Takami
in Nagasaki. And this year we had the group worked
very hard to restore the bell in the tower there,
the church, the cathedral and the Orami Cathedral
in Nagasaki. And you know, of course, that the
bells of Nagasaki and the song of Nagasaki are
famous books that have been written about Dr.
Nagai. One was his own book, his memoir, and
the shorter one, the one was about him. But so
it was really telling to have the beautiful to
have that bell after 80 years restored. The cathedral,
of course, has been restored and for many years
now. And that was a beautiful, beautiful place
to be, to remember and to pray and to bring us
together. And we, of course, a lot of the students
went to the Jesuit division where, you know,
Father Arrupe was when the bomb hit Nagasaki.
He was injured in the blast, not mortally, not
seriously. But and then with his medical background,
he went around Nagasaki ministering to people.
And so they were able to. uh visit that that
the novitiate and then also we had uh at the
uh orami um cathedral that it used to be the
it's not a cathedral today but it was the the
center it was the church where in nagasaki remember
that in japan uh catholics christians would be
um murdered if they were caught for many years
there was a whole period there of the persecution
of christian japan and And and so many were in
hiding. Many of the Catholics were in hiding.
And this is the church where many of the Catholics
heard the Catholic priest that the Japan had
now lifted the persecution. They had stopped
it. And and so many people, many missionaries
started coming back. They heard there was a Catholic
priest at this church and they went up. to see,
and at great risk to their personal safety, they
didn't know. As far as they knew, it could have
been some kind of a trap or something for them
to come out of hiding. But they had great courage,
and they went up there and talked to the priest,
and he showed them the statue of Our Blessed
Mother, the statue of Mary. And that statue is
there today, the statue that they all gazed upon.
And they knew when they saw that, that this was
truly a Catholic priest who had come there to
open up the parish again and bring in the sacraments.
So there are a lot of these kinds of stories,
these kinds of realities of people sharing stories
that we were able to reflect upon. And basically
just people of goodwill. coming together from
different religions, different walks of life,
to promote the gospel of peace, to promote us
living together in harmony with one another.
Principally, though, with the focus of getting
rid of these terrible weapons that threaten us
today. Thanks, Archbishop. You know, for those
who are listening who are not from New Mexico
or from anywhere else, I cannot stress. how shocking
this is to hear Archbishop Wester calmly talk
like this. So think about it. He's the Archbishop
of New Mexico. And, you know, there he is meeting
with all the bishops and leaders of Japan in
Hiroshima. You know, just 15 years ago, after
living in New Mexico for 20 years, I was banned
by the previous archbishop from praying for peace
at Los Alamos. And then, you know, had my faculties
removed publicly for because I was calling for
nuclear disarmament and getting death threats.
Now, archbishop is going over there. Tell me
a little bit. We don't have too much time, but
about your work with. to build solidarity with
the Japanese bishops and the diocese there with
New Mexico. Because to me, that is really creative
peacemaking. And it's almost like about time.
Here, 80 years later, the churches in Japan and
the churches in New Mexico are coming together
in reconciliation for the first time under your
leadership. Well, yes, thank you for bringing
that up, John, because that's really been one
of the fruits of the letter, which, by the way,
was your idea. Thank you again for suggesting
to me writing that letter, that pastoral letter,
because I think that's really what was the springboard
for all of this. And so Archbishop Etchen, I
saw, gave a statement against nuclear weapons.
He has the Trident submarines in his archdiocese,
any one of which has enough firepower. to completely
destroy human civilization throughout the world.
It's hard for my mind still, after all this time,
to grasp that, that each one of those submarines
has enough nuclear firepower to destroy all of
human civilization in the world overnight. And
so he came out strongly, and I invited him to
join me in inviting the bishops of Japan and
Hiroshima and Nagasaki to form what we call...
The Partnership for a World Without Nuclear Weapons.
Oh, wow. Partnership for a World Without Nuclear
Weapons. We've got bylaws. Really? Yeah, and
we're inviting people to participate. Organizations
can participate either as endorsing or participating
members. And really what that means is that if
you're endorsing, that means we can put your
name on our website and say that. You know, your
Catholic group, diocese, parish organization,
maybe a parish peace and justice group is endorsing
our partnership. Or you can participate. And
that would mean that once a year, it's very simple,
once a year, you would be on a Zoom meeting and
we'd all gather and have, you know, a meeting,
an annual meeting and share some highlights of
best practices, some of the highlights of things
that have been done. So Bishop Shirahama is a
Sulpician. priest, become bishop. And he's done
a lot of the legwork on getting the bylaws ready
and Archbishop Nakamura and Paul and I assisting.
And so it's been really a wonderful experience.
We've come to know each other. We've built friendships.
Gee, that's great. Yeah, it's just been wonderful.
If people wanted to check it out, where would
they go? What website? Well, the website would
just go for WWW Partnership for a World Without
Nuclear Weapons. That's a long title, John. Yes,
PWNW is how we abbreviate it. So is the website
PWNW .org? Right. Now, let me ask you, you know,
I've told you this, that I'm not allowed in Japan
because I'm an ex -con for having hammered on
a nuclear weapon. And I've been invited there,
invited to speak at Hiroshima several times over
the decades. But, you know, their constitution
doesn't allow convicted felons from the U .S.
in. So there you go. So I've never been. What
was the actual moment like? I presume it was.
In Hiroshima, was it at 8 a .m. that morning?
And was silence? How many people? Did they have
speeches outdoor there in the Peace Park? Right.
So in Hiroshima, around 11, I think it's 8, 11,
I forget the exact time. Around 8 in the morning,
they always, remember what we're doing, prayer
service, civic service, there's a pause of silence.
And Nagasaki is left for 11. And we, so in Hiroshima,
we begin, typically this is our third time there
with this experience. It's an interfaith service
at the Peace Park there. We have, there's a table
set up with many flowers. And keep in mind, this
is August, so it's very hot. Very humid, even
at 6 a .m. It's quite hot and humid. And you
can hear the crickets and all that. And of course,
Japan's a beautiful country and the people are
beautiful people. And then we, so the different
religions come forward. We go, Paul and I usually
typically come forward with others. And we pray
the prayer of St. Francis. And we have other
prayers. And then we, they have a table and there's
pitchers of water. Because the victims of the
bombing shortly before they died experienced
severe thirst, excruciating thirst, and they
were clamoring for water. And so we have pictures
of water. And of course, there's a great devotion.
to the ancestors in japan and so there's kind
of that that sense of providing you know that
now and their flowers of course and uh and then
the different religions have their different
customs and then we go over to the main event
if you will uh the larger event anyway and that
would be the civic event where they have speeches
and choirs of children singing and the prime
minister is typically there other ambassadors
of different countries are there Different religious
heads, people of that sort are there. But it's
quite a thousand, thousands of people are there.
It's a national holiday, of course. People are
off work. Wow. It's just quite an event. And
a lot of media? Yes, there's a lot of media there.
A lot of security, as you imagine. A lot of security,
a lot of media. But I must say, the whole atmosphere,
it's very reverent. It's very prayerful. There's
a sense of the somberness of what it is that
we're commemorating. Yeah. So let's talk a little
bit about the pastoral letter. What were you
hoping to accomplish? And now it's, you know
what, four years later maybe. And, you know,
it came out. Pax Christi published thousands
of copies. And then it seemed to me, John, you
just... took off speaking all over the country
and the world, even the United Nations, because
it opened so many doors. But then there was also
the interesting question, what could happen to
New Mexico? You know, because there's so many
thousands of Catholics and Christians involved
in making nuclear weapons all over the state,
one of the poorest in the country. What kind
of reaction have you gotten all these years later
in the state from the politicians, the labs,
and so forth, and globally in the church? So
talk about the reaction and what it's been like
for you. Well, the purpose of the letter, in
my mind, was always to initiate and or sustain
a conversation about nuclear disarmament. Typically,
the conversation centers around the two poles
of deterrence and disarmament. That's kind of
the two sides of the argument, if you will. It's
more complicated than that, but that kind of
sums it up. And so I wanted to just have a conversation.
I wanted to be clear that I'm not trying to...
engage in this heated debate and put anybody
down or call people warmongers or anything. My
sense is that if people of goodwill come together
and discuss the situation of nuclear weapons,
it will naturally lead to the conclusion that
we must disarm. And I think it will also remind
us that we have done that. I mean, in the past
with Kennedy and Khrushchev initiating that in
the early 60s. We went from over 80 ,000 nuclear
weapons to the 13 ,000 plus we have today. But
sadly, we're in a nuclear arms race today that's
worse than the first one. And as I mentioned,
with artificial intelligence and hypersonic delivery
systems, etc. So my point was hopefully to join
others. It's not just me, but to join others.
building this conversation the reaction interestingly
enough has not i have not received any um strong
i mean i i guess anyway you we all some of us
get hate mail from time to time on different
issues i haven't gotten hate mail or really strong
uh you know harsh email i'd say that the most
common reaction is I would say perhaps indifference,
mild interest, but nothing more than that. Either
they really, really agree and they say, thank
you so much for doing this, or they smile and
say, oh, that's interesting. It reminds you of
St. Paul, the Areopagus. Oh, you must touch it.
We must talk about that some other time. They're
kind of like, you know, putting it off. And so
that's my... reason why we just have to keep
engaging the conversation. Last September, we
had a symposium at the University of New Mexico,
and Cardinal McElroy came and gave a talk. We
had Sig Hecker, the former head of LANL Labs,
where the bomb was first created, and where they're
currently building new pit cores for a completely
new arsenal. And we've met with the head of Sandia
Labs, and we've met with scientists. We've met
with State Department officials. They were at
this symposium at UNM. And my sense is that all
of them agree that nobody wants a nuclear war.
I mean, that would be just suicide. But where
we seem to have disagreement is how do we prevent
nuclear war? Our solution would be, yeah, get
rid of the weapons and you can't have nuclear
war. No nuclear weapons, no nuclear war. Easy.
The other side, to put it that way, would say,
no, we need these weapons to... to to keep us
safe because no one would dare begin a war uh
knowing that we have all these weapons of course
they they don't take into account uh that we're
human beings and the pencils have erasers and
that uh you know uh you know uh the department
of defense secretary of defense senator kennedy
said the only reason we avoided nuclear war in
62 in the cuban missile crisis was luck And luck
is not a good strategy for saving our lives.
So so that to me is kind of where the rubber
meets the road, where we have to, you know, say,
do we really think, you know, they I have to
say another reaction, John, that I've gotten
is that we're naive. Yeah, that's a very common
one. Oh, you're just being naive. Yeah. But our
response to that as well. Who's really naive?
Those who think we can live with nuclear weapons
or those who think we can live without them?
I would suggest you. And meanwhile, there's Jesus
that you and I claim to follow. So why I think
you're... changed the church. And it was so frustrating
to me in 1984 when the U .S. Catholic Bishops
Peace Pastoral Letter came out. For those who
may not remember, it was, you know, huge news
because this had never happened before and Cardinal
Bernadine was on the cover of Time. And it's
the first statement anywhere in the world where...
It's so divided. Half the letter says Jesus was
totally nonviolent, and you can follow the nonviolent
Jesus. The other half says, and so we should
get rid of nuclear weapons, but maybe we need
to really keep some because of deterrence. which
I don't think works. Your letter comes along
and says no to the whole thing of deterrence
or the existence of nuclear weapons. And by the
way, we are supposed to follow Jesus. My question
is about Pope Francis, then Archbishop. He then
in his last years, I never thought I'd live to
see the things he did, but in particular about
nuclear weapons and his own visit to Hiroshima,
where he said, he's saying things like, There's
no just war, but there's no deterrence anymore.
That's not working, but it's not of the gospel.
And I think he changed the directory of the church,
and everybody's trying to pretend he didn't.
What do you think about what Pope Francis did?
Any thoughts on him and his work for peace and
discernment? Well, I think you hit the nail on
the head, John. I mean, Pope Francis dramatically
and very... powerfully changed the whole discourse
of the Catholic Church on nuclear weapons. Because
in the document you quoted in 1983, the bishops
allowed for deterrence. It's kind of like, well,
okay, you know, we shouldn't have weapons, but
we'll have it. But that's off the table now.
I mean, the Pope's exact quote was even merely
possessing nuclear weapons is immoral. And that's
on a variety of fronts because... The weapons
are already being used, even if they're not used.
Look at what is happening in Russia and Ukraine.
You know, Putin is using nuclear weapons as a
threat. And it's really circumscribing the nature
of that war. And not to mention the money that's
spent on them that could be going to the poor.
People are dying of starvation every day in our
world. And here we are spending up to trillions
of dollars on nuclear weapons. So there's so
many reasons why the Pope is so on target. Even
possessing of your weapons is immoral. Now, the
interesting thing is, though, that this isn't
an interesting what people choose to ignore.
I mean, nobody says, I mean, I remember Cardinal
McElroy years ago wrote an article in America
Magazine in which he lamented the fact that we've
become inured to war. We've become inured to
violence and to... to starvation. Over 65 ,000
people have died in Gaza. We're going to have
a protest tomorrow in Albuquerque to continue
to raise an awareness or sustain awareness of
what's going on there because this is tragic.
But we just, we read it and then we sip some
more coffee and go on about our daily life. You
know, these are things that we can't ignore.
I'm not suggesting, I mean, what can any one
of us do? We can't. change the trajectory by
ourselves, but we have to join our voices with
others and at least engage the conversation and
do something to make our leaders recognize that
we're not going to stand for this, that we need
to get rid of these weapons. I mean, it's our
lives that are going to be lost, our children's
lives, our grandchildren's lives. Our civilization
is going to be lost if there's ever an Armageddon.
I mean, what are we going to do? Have to reinvent
the wheel, reinvent fire, reinvent Tutsillan.
the bible scripture any any advance has ever
been made by humankind will be wiped out who
knows what will be left after an arm again the
destruction will be uh complete and total and
the nuclear uh winter would last at least 10
years over 5 billion people will die mostly from
starvation i mean the scenario is just uh awful
and maybe it's one of those things that people
just as soon stick their head in the sands and
not think about it Pull the covers over your
head and just don't think about it. But I think
we need to think about it and talk about it and
get rid of these weapons. Well, that's so beautiful.
Thank you, Archbishop. And thank you for modeling
that for us. I mean, nobody wants to talk about
nuclear weapons all day long and go around the
country and do it. But as you said, it's that
or just sit back and do nothing and be indifferent
or pretend it's. not happening. But you've shown
us that we can each do something. And I think
everyone can do something. We can all take to
the streets like you're going to tomorrow and
be peaceful and stand up publicly and say no.
That was the brilliance, I think, of the pastoral
letter. And I've been around for 45 years in
the peace movement. I never heard anybody call
for a national conversation. And so that was
a very nonviolent, gentle way to say, folks,
we're going to talk. It's time to talk. We can't
just pretend this isn't happening. Now I want
to ask about Jesus. How does he fit into all
of this? I know that's a stupid question, given
we're talking about the end of the planet. I
remember reading once a placard that someone
had at a protest that said, God, we can destroy
in 15 minutes what it took you 15 billion years
to make. You know, that really resonated with
me. That's what we're saying to God. And Jesus
is, blessed are the peacemakers. Love your enemies.
Put down the sword. And so that's why I call
this the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. And you write
about Jesus. So tell me, in your own words, for
our listeners who are interested in the idea
of the nonviolence of Jesus. What that means
for us in light of these weapons and this predicament
we're in. Well, you know, John, you've been so
good about reminding us of that essential fact
that Jesus is the center of everything. I love
that Jean -Pierre J. Cassatt quote that, you
know, Jesus' hidden activities in every atom
of matter, every fraction of a second, we see
Christ at work in our lives. And that's so critically
important. In John 17, he prayed for peace. We're
eavesdropping on the personal prayer, the intimate
prayer of Jesus and his father, Abba. And he's
praying for peace. He's praying that we come
to be one in him and in him and the father. And
so this is such an essential part of what this
is all about. And that's why people say, well,
You know, you should butt out, you know, and
let the politicians and the military people deal
with this. That's a scary thought. I think, no,
we belong in this conversation. We're in the
public square. We've got to keep promoting the
gospel and hoping people will hear and listen.
And so that, you know, I can, I can, I love this
quote from Omar Bradley. Imagine a five -star
general of the army. Exactly what you're talking
about, John. He said, we have men of science,
too few men of God. We have grasped the mystery
of the atom and rejected the Sermon on the Mount.
The world has achieved brilliance without conscience.
Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical
infants. We know more about war than we know
about peace, more about killing than we know
about living. If we continue to develop our technology
without wisdom or prudence, our servant, may
prove to be our executioner that's a powerful
quote it seems to me and he puts christ right
at the center the sermon on the mount right there
you know matthew 5 it's just so i think that
that's really what we have that's what gives
us the courage and the hope to go on because
we are like a voice in the desert crying out
and no one seems to be listening but we persist
we have to all persist and not lose hope Because
this is what Christ calls us to do. And Christ
promised to be with us to the end of the age.
I believe firmly that Christ is behind all of
these movements. What you're doing in the Beatitudes
Center, Pax Christi, the Church's Catholic social
teaching. This is all founded in Christ. And
so that's what's going to keep us going. And
I think that's what's going to achieve success
in the end. Well, thank you so much. We're out
of time. Is there anything else you'd like to
add before we end? I bet you've sort of summed
it up so well there. Well, just to thank you,
John. I really appreciate all your good work.
God bless you for what you're doing, and God
bless the Beatitudes Center. Thanks, Archbishop.
And thank you for all the great work you're doing.
And will you come on next year? We'll make this
an annual thing, and you can give us a State
of the Bomb kind of talk. Oh, I'd be honored.
I'd be honored, yeah. It'd be a happy occasion.
Well, you're doing great things, and you're encouraging
us to carry on, to speak out. So thank you. And
thanks, dear friends, for listening to the Nonviolent
Jesus podcast. You can hear more podcasts and
find other upcoming Zoom programs at BeatitudeCenter
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the nonviolent Jesus. See you next time.