WEBVTT 00:00:13.710 --> 00:00:16.550 Welcome to the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. I'm 00:00:16.550 --> 00:00:19.570 John, Father John Deere, and today I'd like to 00:00:19.570 --> 00:00:23.649 reflect with you on the life and lessons of Mahatma 00:00:23.649 --> 00:00:28.329 Gandhi. This is a project of www .beatitudescenter 00:00:28.329 --> 00:00:31.750 .org, where you can find many other podcasts 00:00:31.750 --> 00:00:34.789 and regular Zoom programs on the nonviolence 00:00:34.789 --> 00:00:38.469 of Jesus and practicing nonviolence and working 00:00:38.469 --> 00:00:42.070 for a more just, more nonviolent world. So let's 00:00:42.070 --> 00:00:45.070 begin with a little prayer. I invite you wherever 00:00:45.070 --> 00:00:49.289 you are just to take a deep breath and to relax 00:00:49.289 --> 00:00:54.189 and recenter yourself. And together let's enter 00:00:54.189 --> 00:00:57.570 into the presence of the God of peace who loves 00:00:57.570 --> 00:01:00.950 you infinitely and personally and everyone everywhere. 00:01:01.490 --> 00:01:04.569 And let's welcome the nonviolent Jesus with us 00:01:04.569 --> 00:01:08.430 here and ask for the grace to follow him ever 00:01:08.430 --> 00:01:11.349 more faithfully and do God's will of creative, 00:01:11.370 --> 00:01:17.609 loving nonviolence. God of peace, thank you for 00:01:17.609 --> 00:01:20.230 all the blessings of life, love, and peace that 00:01:20.230 --> 00:01:24.310 you give us. Be with us now as we reflect together 00:01:24.310 --> 00:01:27.849 on Mahatma Gandhi that we might learn more about 00:01:27.849 --> 00:01:31.170 how to follow the nonviolent Jesus and work for 00:01:31.170 --> 00:01:34.150 a more nonviolent, more just world. Bless us, 00:01:34.230 --> 00:01:37.469 inspire us, disarm us, strengthen us, and send 00:01:37.469 --> 00:01:40.609 us out to do your will that we might do our part 00:01:40.609 --> 00:01:44.290 to help end poverty, racism, greed, injustice, 00:01:44.650 --> 00:01:47.689 war. nuclear weapons, and environmental destruction, 00:01:47.909 --> 00:01:51.150 that we might be your holy beatitude people, 00:01:51.489 --> 00:01:54.209 your holy peacemakers, and welcome your reign 00:01:54.209 --> 00:01:57.790 of universal love, nonviolence, and peace on 00:01:57.790 --> 00:02:03.689 earth. In Jesus' name, amen. Once, long ago, 00:02:03.950 --> 00:02:07.890 they asked Dr. King, who is the greatest Christian 00:02:07.890 --> 00:02:10.789 who ever lived? And without missing a beat, he 00:02:10.789 --> 00:02:15.710 said, Gandhi. And that is such a shocking answer 00:02:15.710 --> 00:02:19.349 in the American South in the early 60s by a famous 00:02:19.349 --> 00:02:23.610 Baptist minister. He's saying that this Hindu 00:02:23.610 --> 00:02:26.710 is the greatest Christian who ever lived. I completely 00:02:26.710 --> 00:02:30.009 agree with Martin King. Gandhi comes closest 00:02:30.009 --> 00:02:34.030 to following the nonviolent Jesus. And I've been 00:02:34.030 --> 00:02:37.099 following him. studying Gandhi since I was 20, 00:02:37.259 --> 00:02:39.979 so I thought I'd offer a few reflections about 00:02:39.979 --> 00:02:45.460 Gandhi and his life lessons for us. I began reading 00:02:45.460 --> 00:02:50.099 the collected writings, the big 100 volumes of 00:02:50.099 --> 00:02:52.879 all of Gandhi's writings, which was published 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:55.620 by the government of India in the late 90s, and 00:02:55.620 --> 00:02:59.990 I've probably read 25 or... 35 other biographies 00:02:59.990 --> 00:03:04.430 and books. And I published Mohandas Gandhi Essential 00:03:04.430 --> 00:03:07.770 Writings, which I invite everyone to get. It's 00:03:07.770 --> 00:03:11.110 a really great anthology of my favorite writings 00:03:11.110 --> 00:03:14.270 by Gandhi. I remember when I finished it, my 00:03:14.270 --> 00:03:17.389 friend Daniel Berrigan said, you've overdosed 00:03:17.389 --> 00:03:19.930 on Gandhi and need to go to a 12 -step program, 00:03:20.229 --> 00:03:24.569 which we had a good laugh about. So as I begin, 00:03:24.750 --> 00:03:29.180 the key to... Understand Gandhi, for me, is that 00:03:29.180 --> 00:03:32.400 Gandhi was not born Gandhi. He became Gandhi. 00:03:34.139 --> 00:03:38.460 And there's such a profound lesson there. We 00:03:38.460 --> 00:03:41.900 all have to really work at becoming our true 00:03:41.900 --> 00:03:45.060 selves before God, becoming the peacemakers we 00:03:45.060 --> 00:03:47.560 were created and born to be, to become people 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:51.939 of nonviolence, stuck in the culture of violence. 00:03:52.819 --> 00:03:57.879 And this takes... real, single -minded, concentrated 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:01.719 effort to allow God to disarm us and transform 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:04.419 us. And that's what Gandhi did, perhaps more 00:04:04.419 --> 00:04:08.180 than anybody. So I thought I'd walk through the 00:04:08.180 --> 00:04:11.259 basic lessons or basic moments of Gandhi's life, 00:04:11.379 --> 00:04:15.939 and then I'll offer 12 lessons. So as you know, 00:04:15.960 --> 00:04:19.060 Gandhi was born in India in 1869. He went to 00:04:19.060 --> 00:04:21.939 London to get his law degree. He got a job as 00:04:21.939 --> 00:04:24.879 a lawyer in South Africa. He was totally Western, 00:04:25.040 --> 00:04:27.779 wore a three -piece suit, played the violin. 00:04:28.139 --> 00:04:30.879 The only thing that was noticeable about him 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:34.439 was that he was a vegetarian. But he had his 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:37.939 big conversion, as you remember in the fabulous 00:04:37.939 --> 00:04:40.860 movie Gandhi, when he was thrown off the train 00:04:40.860 --> 00:04:46.269 in South Africa. For sitting in the first class 00:04:46.269 --> 00:04:49.189 section, which was reserved for white people 00:04:49.189 --> 00:04:55.709 only. And I made a holy pilgrimage with my friends 00:04:55.709 --> 00:04:59.370 to Peter Maritzburg, South Africa, to that train 00:04:59.370 --> 00:05:03.750 station, which still stands today. He's thrown 00:05:03.750 --> 00:05:06.170 off the train, if you can imagine, about midnight. 00:05:06.470 --> 00:05:11.189 And he remains there, sitting on the spot on 00:05:11.189 --> 00:05:14.779 the edge of the tracks. until about 8 a .m., 00:05:14.779 --> 00:05:18.399 wrestling. He said it was the hardest day of 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:23.480 his life. Do I forget this and just move on, 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:28.079 or do I do something about this to fight this 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:31.560 injustice and racism? And that was the beginning, 00:05:31.660 --> 00:05:34.240 because when he stood up that day in the train 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:38.629 station in Peter Moritzburg, he was Gandhi. And 00:05:38.629 --> 00:05:41.629 he decided to spend his whole life fighting racism 00:05:41.629 --> 00:05:44.970 and injustice, which was really the beginnings 00:05:44.970 --> 00:05:48.029 of apartheid. And he forms a movement in South 00:05:48.029 --> 00:05:50.870 Africa, starts studying and practicing nonviolence, 00:05:50.910 --> 00:05:55.449 using the word ahimsa from the Jains, struggles 00:05:55.449 --> 00:05:57.850 with, you know, it's such a clumsy word, has 00:05:57.850 --> 00:06:00.649 a contest to come up with a better word, which 00:06:00.649 --> 00:06:02.750 he comes up with and he gives the award himself, 00:06:03.009 --> 00:06:06.220 which is funny because he's a funny guy. called 00:06:06.220 --> 00:06:09.139 satyagraha, or truth force, or the pursuit of 00:06:09.139 --> 00:06:12.040 truth. But that word really hasn't caught on. 00:06:12.699 --> 00:06:15.480 And he organizes marches in civil disobedience, 00:06:15.579 --> 00:06:18.319 and hundreds and hundreds of people go to prison 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:22.759 with him to resist the unjust pass laws. And 00:06:22.759 --> 00:06:25.480 you'll remember that from the movie. And after 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:29.800 his campaign wins, he goes back to India. Along 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:33.439 the way in South Africa, he forms an interfaith 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:37.939 community. builds an ashram, adopts total poverty 00:06:37.939 --> 00:06:40.620 and simplicity. That's because he visited a Trappist 00:06:40.620 --> 00:06:43.759 monastery and was so moved by them. He starts 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:47.480 meditating every day and starts reading the Sermon 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:50.920 on the Mount and the Bhagavad Gita every day 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:55.420 and begins his journey up through probably the 00:06:55.420 --> 00:07:01.939 early 1910s of professing 14 vows, which is just 00:07:01.939 --> 00:07:06.259 shocking. including vows of nonviolence, truth, 00:07:06.540 --> 00:07:09.759 poverty, chastity, respect for all religions, 00:07:10.000 --> 00:07:15.680 wearing only clothes he himself made, and fearlessness. 00:07:16.300 --> 00:07:19.339 So he has a great victory in the movement in 00:07:19.339 --> 00:07:22.180 South Africa, moves back to India, starts traveling, 00:07:22.500 --> 00:07:25.439 learning what's going on, seeing the British 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:30.660 occupation and colonial and imperial rule over 00:07:30.660 --> 00:07:36.370 India. And slowly begins to really build the 00:07:36.370 --> 00:07:39.430 grassroots movement of nonviolence. He's saying 00:07:39.430 --> 00:07:43.910 India at that time by 1920 had 300 million people. 00:07:44.110 --> 00:07:48.209 And the British had 30 million people living 00:07:48.209 --> 00:07:51.730 in India. He's saying 30 million people cannot 00:07:51.730 --> 00:07:56.649 rule 300 million people if they refuse to cooperate. 00:07:57.689 --> 00:08:00.730 And that was his whole plan, nonviolently, non 00:08:00.730 --> 00:08:03.250 -cooperating until the British left. And the 00:08:03.250 --> 00:08:04.850 British just thought that was the funniest thing 00:08:04.850 --> 00:08:08.649 ever. And so through a series of circumstances, 00:08:08.730 --> 00:08:14.110 in 1919, he calls for a national strike, actually 00:08:14.110 --> 00:08:17.610 a day of prayer and fasting. But there's no phones. 00:08:17.689 --> 00:08:20.589 It's hard to imagine no computer or no nothing. 00:08:20.769 --> 00:08:23.610 They don't even have phones all across India. 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:28.220 And it spread like wildfire beyond everybody's 00:08:28.220 --> 00:08:33.460 expectation. And the whole country shut down. 00:08:33.679 --> 00:08:37.720 Everything. Everyone stayed home to nonviolently 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:43.259 protest British rule. And that's right there 00:08:43.259 --> 00:08:46.320 a great lesson of the power of active nonviolence. 00:08:46.360 --> 00:08:48.419 And that's what we need here in the United States 00:08:48.419 --> 00:08:54.129 to do these days. In 1922, within three years, 00:08:54.350 --> 00:08:57.889 he had launched a civil disobedience campaign 00:08:57.889 --> 00:09:02.629 and over 50 ,000 people had gone to jail, pledging 00:09:02.629 --> 00:09:06.029 total nonviolence and being all willing to go 00:09:06.029 --> 00:09:08.909 up to 10 years, and many of them did. And then 00:09:08.909 --> 00:09:13.549 Britain arrested Gandhi in 1924, and it was called 00:09:13.549 --> 00:09:16.409 the Great Trial. He was sentenced to six years 00:09:16.409 --> 00:09:19.110 in prison for protesting the British Empire. 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:22.700 Afterwards, he came out weak. He was always almost 00:09:22.700 --> 00:09:27.059 dying and always fasting. And he began going 00:09:27.059 --> 00:09:29.860 deeper into daily prayer and building a constructive 00:09:29.860 --> 00:09:34.279 program to serve the poor and really doing some 00:09:34.279 --> 00:09:39.240 exciting, dramatic fasts to confront, in particular, 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:42.419 religious -based injustice against the untouchables 00:09:42.419 --> 00:09:46.480 and injustice against women. And then all of 00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:49.019 this led up to several years of concentrated 00:09:49.019 --> 00:09:55.460 petitioning God, what do we do to spark the British 00:09:55.460 --> 00:09:59.419 to leave? So he's two years training his 80 followers. 00:10:00.139 --> 00:10:02.460 They're going to do something, and they're going 00:10:02.460 --> 00:10:04.000 to be shot and killed, but we're going to be 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:05.960 totally nonviolent. I just don't know yet what 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:07.919 we're going to do. And then he comes and announces, 00:10:08.019 --> 00:10:10.679 God has told me what to do. We're going to march 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:14.759 to the sea and pick up salt. And everybody thought 00:10:14.759 --> 00:10:18.340 that was just ridiculous. The British laughed. 00:10:19.399 --> 00:10:22.159 And he's thinking, you know, we'll get like 10 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:24.259 feet and they're going to open fire and kill 00:10:24.259 --> 00:10:30.000 us. But they set off on this 240 -mile walk, 00:10:30.220 --> 00:10:35.340 doing about 10 miles a day, the 80 trained Satyagrahis, 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:38.039 and they're marching to the ocean. And within 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:41.379 hours, The whole country is electrified. And 00:10:41.379 --> 00:10:43.360 after several months, when they get to the ocean, 00:10:43.419 --> 00:10:47.919 he makes salt and picks up some dried salt by 00:10:47.919 --> 00:10:53.720 the sea. The whole country engages in civil disobedience. 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:57.059 Now, the British owned the salt industry. And 00:10:57.059 --> 00:11:01.440 in this rural poverty, salt was critical to surviving 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:06.230 the heat. So this was a brilliant. symbolic action 00:11:06.230 --> 00:11:10.549 of Gandhi's and totally illegal. And this was 00:11:10.549 --> 00:11:17.230 1930. And some 100 ,000 people were arrested, 00:11:17.330 --> 00:11:20.690 and they all got 10 years in jail. And Gandhi 00:11:20.690 --> 00:11:24.370 was arrested too. And he kept teaching nonviolence 00:11:24.370 --> 00:11:28.019 and provoking the British to leave. By now, in 00:11:28.019 --> 00:11:30.679 the 1930s, he's spending two hours a day in prayer. 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:33.759 When he gets out, I think this is about 1933. 00:11:33.899 --> 00:11:36.120 I'm telling you this because it still shocks 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:42.679 me. I'm thinking he's about 61 or 62, okay? He 00:11:42.679 --> 00:11:45.059 and his wife, Kastor, announced to their community 00:11:45.059 --> 00:11:48.059 the ashram where they have 400 people living. 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:51.360 I went there for a month with Arun Gandhi, who 00:11:51.360 --> 00:11:54.580 was raised by Gandhi, to India. I really loved 00:11:54.580 --> 00:11:58.179 it. Gandhi says to the community, you know, we're 00:11:58.179 --> 00:12:01.559 way too rich and comfortable. And they had nothing. 00:12:01.940 --> 00:12:05.179 We're moving to the poorest place in the center 00:12:05.179 --> 00:12:08.059 of India where no one can get to, which is a 00:12:08.059 --> 00:12:11.919 village of untouchables. You know, the lowest 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:16.080 caste system. It was such a shocking thing. In 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:20.580 other words, in his early 60s, he was still going 00:12:20.580 --> 00:12:25.919 as far as radical as he could. And so he moves 00:12:25.919 --> 00:12:30.100 to this place called Warder and sets up a model 00:12:30.100 --> 00:12:33.279 village. And he's using the spinning wheel now. 00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:36.799 And his idea is to teach every person in the 00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:39.600 country to take up the spinning wheel, to make 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:41.740 their own clothes so they don't rely on the British. 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:43.899 And then they can sell them to one another and 00:12:43.899 --> 00:12:47.519 have, you know, little communities that can sustain 00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:51.590 each other. Then World War II happens. and he 00:12:51.590 --> 00:12:53.870 launches the civil disobedience campaign, and 00:12:53.870 --> 00:12:57.029 he's arrested and imprisoned for life. His wife 00:12:57.029 --> 00:13:02.990 dies in prison. By 1942, think of this, 300 ,000 00:13:02.990 --> 00:13:07.529 trained Indians, all trained in Gandhian nonviolence, 00:13:07.649 --> 00:13:11.909 are in prison with at least 10 -year sentences 00:13:11.909 --> 00:13:16.490 for opposing British rule and doing civil disobedience. 00:13:16.669 --> 00:13:19.009 And their argument is, oh, yeah, you're fighting 00:13:19.009 --> 00:13:22.879 the... Nazis to defend democracy. Well, then 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:25.879 you better leave India. If you believe in democracy, 00:13:26.059 --> 00:13:31.899 you can't have imperial rule over us. So he's 00:13:31.899 --> 00:13:35.840 released and sick. His wife dies. And then the 00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:38.539 United States drops the atomic bomb on Hiroshima 00:13:38.539 --> 00:13:43.500 and Nagasaki. And friends, I just want to insist, 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:48.480 and I've been doing this for years, that this 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:52.480 is A very important point about Gandhi. So he's 00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:55.799 really one of the most well -known respected 00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:59.159 spiritual leaders in history. And from the day 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:04.600 of August 6, 1945 till the day he died, he spoke 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:08.080 about nuclear weapons and the need to abolish 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:12.419 them and get rid of them as a critical effort 00:14:12.419 --> 00:14:17.620 for the spiritual life. How can we be serving 00:14:17.620 --> 00:14:20.879 God, worshiping God, following Jesus, saying 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:24.700 we're even semi -nonviolent and allow nuclear 00:14:24.700 --> 00:14:28.679 weapons to exist? In 1947, the British left India, 00:14:28.820 --> 00:14:33.299 but a civil war broke out, sparked by some of 00:14:33.299 --> 00:14:37.720 the... Jealous leaders in the country split into 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:41.240 East Pakistan and West Pakistan, and a million 00:14:41.240 --> 00:14:43.960 were killed. Some scholars now say three million 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:47.240 were killed. And there's no guns involved. So 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:49.779 these are all swords, if you can imagine. It 00:14:49.779 --> 00:14:54.899 was horrific mass murder. And imagine the failure 00:14:54.899 --> 00:14:58.240 that Gandhi felt like he was. He said, did I 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:00.700 waste my whole life? Was it a mistake? Should 00:15:00.700 --> 00:15:05.039 I have not led? a whole nation to try to practice 00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:08.000 nonviolence. And he went on several fasts to 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:11.159 the death to stop the killing and actually stopped 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:16.080 the riots in Bangladesh and the mass riots and 00:15:16.080 --> 00:15:20.059 killings in Calcutta. And he was on his way to 00:15:20.059 --> 00:15:24.100 march to Pakistan, you know, to try to end all 00:15:24.100 --> 00:15:27.299 the killing when he was assassinated. January 00:15:27.299 --> 00:15:31.100 30th, 1948, in New Delhi, as he walked to his 00:15:31.100 --> 00:15:33.700 five o 'clock evening prayer meeting. He was 00:15:33.700 --> 00:15:37.759 79. The conspirators, about 10 or 12 of them, 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:42.740 who were the far right Hindus, who had been planning 00:15:42.740 --> 00:15:46.720 for decades to kill Gandhi, and Gandhi actually 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:50.820 knew them personally, and knew they were planning 00:15:50.820 --> 00:15:54.279 to kill him. Their heirs are now running India 00:15:54.279 --> 00:15:58.879 today. So in my book on Mohandas Gandhi Essential 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:02.480 Writings, I offer a couple of basic lessons and 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:05.120 I'll walk through them just for your reflection 00:16:05.120 --> 00:16:07.919 and just to mull on these teachings because he's 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.480 so profound and critical for our own predicament 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:14.919 today about what do we do, where do we go, how 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:17.500 do we follow the nonviolent Jesus. So number 00:16:17.500 --> 00:16:20.779 one, and you just have to forgive me for being 00:16:20.779 --> 00:16:24.669 such a broken record. But Gandhi taught morning, 00:16:24.870 --> 00:16:28.330 noon, and night over and over and over again. 00:16:28.429 --> 00:16:32.789 All he said for 50 years was persistent, consistent, 00:16:33.250 --> 00:16:36.450 steadfast, dedicated, committed, faithful, relentless, 00:16:36.870 --> 00:16:40.190 truthful, prayerful, loving, troublemaking, illegal, 00:16:40.610 --> 00:16:44.950 active, creative, provocative, public, daring, 00:16:45.269 --> 00:16:49.950 nonviolence. That's it. That's his message to 00:16:49.950 --> 00:16:52.850 the world. Here's a quote. Nonviolence means 00:16:52.850 --> 00:16:56.889 avoiding injury to anything on earth in thought, 00:16:56.990 --> 00:17:02.789 word, or deed. Wow. Devotion to nonviolence is 00:17:02.789 --> 00:17:05.329 the highest expression of humanity's conscious 00:17:05.329 --> 00:17:11.529 state. Wow. Nonviolence is the greatest and most 00:17:11.529 --> 00:17:14.009 active force in the world. Now listen to this 00:17:14.009 --> 00:17:18.130 one. One person who can... express total nonviolence 00:17:18.130 --> 00:17:22.809 in life, exercises a force superior to all the 00:17:22.809 --> 00:17:26.190 forces of brutality. I think he proved that, 00:17:26.269 --> 00:17:29.430 but of course Jesus did. You know, Jesus, completely 00:17:29.430 --> 00:17:34.650 powerless on the cross, dying in total nonviolence, 00:17:34.650 --> 00:17:38.890 continuing to disarm every human heart. Here's 00:17:38.890 --> 00:17:41.990 another favorite quote of mine. My optimism rests 00:17:41.990 --> 00:17:45.269 on my belief in the infinite possibilities of 00:17:45.269 --> 00:17:48.049 the individual to develop nonviolence. The more 00:17:48.049 --> 00:17:51.130 you develop it in your own being, the more infectious 00:17:51.130 --> 00:17:55.269 it becomes. It overwhelms your surroundings and 00:17:55.269 --> 00:17:58.089 by and by might oversweep the world. In other 00:17:58.089 --> 00:18:00.410 words, Gandhi says, if you go deep into this 00:18:00.410 --> 00:18:03.670 way of non -killing, which is really universal 00:18:03.670 --> 00:18:07.130 love. in the pursuit of the truth of our common 00:18:07.130 --> 00:18:10.890 unity, it will become contagious. You know, if 00:18:10.890 --> 00:18:12.450 you're willing to give it on your life and you're 00:18:12.450 --> 00:18:15.210 just so totally insistent on nonviolence. So 00:18:15.210 --> 00:18:18.470 he learned pretty early on, much to his shock 00:18:18.470 --> 00:18:21.710 in South Africa, that nonviolence, as this clumsy 00:18:21.710 --> 00:18:26.269 word, for lack of better words, is way beyond 00:18:26.269 --> 00:18:29.630 the refusal to hurt or kill. We don't kill anyone, 00:18:29.789 --> 00:18:32.549 but we give our lives to stop the killing and 00:18:32.549 --> 00:18:35.529 to transform the violence of the world. And he 00:18:35.529 --> 00:18:38.670 saw it as the force of God, that God is totally 00:18:38.670 --> 00:18:42.230 nonviolent. It's the method of God, he said, 00:18:42.269 --> 00:18:45.150 because that's what Jesus did. And it's the power 00:18:45.150 --> 00:18:49.670 of God available to us to work for good and transformation 00:18:49.670 --> 00:18:53.430 for the human race and all the nations. So Gandhi 00:18:53.430 --> 00:18:56.829 said that if you engage in the power of nonviolence, 00:18:58.190 --> 00:19:01.630 force more powerful than all the weapons and 00:19:01.630 --> 00:19:03.630 nuclear weapons of the world combined. That's 00:19:03.630 --> 00:19:08.470 a direct quote. So that's our path, but few people 00:19:08.470 --> 00:19:11.170 are choosing it. We have a way forward. If all 00:19:11.170 --> 00:19:14.170 of us Americans could just put down the sword 00:19:14.170 --> 00:19:16.890 and practice nonviolence with the same steadfast 00:19:16.890 --> 00:19:20.210 devotion he did, we really could get somewhere 00:19:20.210 --> 00:19:24.529 and dismantle our weapons and dismantle this 00:19:24.529 --> 00:19:27.519 whole... culture of permanent warfare and injustice. 00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:30.880 Because Gandhi said nonviolence always works. 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:33.759 Why? Because it's the method of Jesus on the 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:36.579 cross. Suffering love, in the end, the willingness 00:19:36.579 --> 00:19:41.039 to give our lives will eventually melt every 00:19:41.039 --> 00:19:44.980 human heart, you know, and disarm others, including 00:19:44.980 --> 00:19:48.799 the oppressors, to liberating all of us, oppressed 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:53.670 and oppressors. So Gandhi teaches me That nonviolence 00:19:53.670 --> 00:19:56.329 begins in the heart where we renounce the violence 00:19:56.329 --> 00:20:00.109 in ourselves. Wow, did he work hard on his inner 00:20:00.109 --> 00:20:04.190 nonviolence. And then it moves out in active, 00:20:04.250 --> 00:20:08.130 creative, daily, meticulous nonviolence to all 00:20:08.130 --> 00:20:10.410 the people around us, our families, our communities, 00:20:10.670 --> 00:20:13.509 our churches, and then our cities and nation 00:20:13.509 --> 00:20:15.730 and world. And Gandhi made a lot of mistakes, 00:20:16.009 --> 00:20:19.470 but not as many as the rest of us do. He just 00:20:19.470 --> 00:20:23.349 wrote about them and learned from them. He didn't 00:20:23.349 --> 00:20:28.109 repeat them and tried to practice personally 00:20:28.109 --> 00:20:31.230 the total nonviolence he wanted for the world 00:20:31.230 --> 00:20:34.809 and what he wanted in others. And he said, well, 00:20:34.990 --> 00:20:38.190 this must be the way of God. So there's got to 00:20:38.190 --> 00:20:41.829 be a way to use this to take on the whole British 00:20:41.829 --> 00:20:45.230 Empire. Now, Dr. King said no one had ever really 00:20:45.230 --> 00:20:48.019 done that before. had really applied the Sermon 00:20:48.019 --> 00:20:50.980 on the Mount insistence on nonviolence to an 00:20:50.980 --> 00:20:53.519 entire nation. And Gandhi was saying, I'm just 00:20:53.519 --> 00:20:56.160 beginning to experiment with this. We can go 00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:59.400 and do this with every nation in the world. And 00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:02.799 he was right. He got the British to leave nonviolently. 00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:04.619 And Dr. King and the civil rights movement got 00:21:04.619 --> 00:21:07.380 to bring down segregation nonviolently. And there 00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:11.319 have been 85 nonviolent revolutions since then. 00:21:11.819 --> 00:21:17.349 So nonviolence. He's inviting us to be practitioners, 00:21:17.769 --> 00:21:22.430 teachers, and promoters of nonviolence. So how 00:21:22.430 --> 00:21:25.430 are you doing with that? Number two, Gandhi said 00:21:25.430 --> 00:21:29.670 around 1900, think about how far ahead of his 00:21:29.670 --> 00:21:33.369 times he was here, nonviolence is at the center 00:21:33.369 --> 00:21:37.660 of every world religion. because it is the way 00:21:37.660 --> 00:21:40.500 of God. So that's why he took a vow to respect 00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:43.240 all the religions. He says nonviolence is at 00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:45.839 the heart of all spirituality. It's what it means 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:48.940 to be human, to be godly, to be human is to be 00:21:48.940 --> 00:21:53.119 nonviolent. And God is a God of nonviolence. 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:56.799 And he was trying to embark on a new spirituality 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:59.440 of nonviolence. And that's why I always think 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:03.119 the future. from a Gandhian perspective, is interfaith 00:22:03.119 --> 00:22:06.259 nonviolence and discovering the common ground 00:22:06.259 --> 00:22:10.900 of nonviolence that we all walk. So he's basically 00:22:10.900 --> 00:22:16.660 showing us that Hinduism means total act of nonviolence, 00:22:16.700 --> 00:22:19.700 especially if you follow his take on the Bhagavad 00:22:19.700 --> 00:22:22.960 Gita. He's saying through his friend Abdul Ghaffar 00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:27.299 Khan that Islam is about total nonviolence. The 00:22:27.299 --> 00:22:33.440 word means peace. his friends, many close Jewish 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:37.599 friends, that Judaism is all about nonviolence 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:41.039 through the magnificent vision of Shalom. And 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:44.000 Buddhism is all about, you know, infinite compassion 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:46.619 toward all living beings. There's no violence 00:22:46.619 --> 00:22:49.380 involved. But Gandhi said Christianity is the 00:22:49.380 --> 00:22:54.200 greatest religion of nonviolence because Jesus 00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:57.319 was the epitome of nonviolence. It's just that 00:22:57.319 --> 00:23:02.220 Christians... have completely rejected the nonviolence 00:23:02.220 --> 00:23:06.359 of Jesus and turned it into a state or imperial 00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:10.640 religion. That's why he refused to become a Christian. 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.799 But he was probably more devoted to Jesus than 00:23:14.799 --> 00:23:19.339 anybody. So there's a lot to ponder there, just 00:23:19.339 --> 00:23:22.839 to start discovering the nonviolence in all the 00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:26.539 world's religions. And to read Gandhi on Jesus 00:23:26.539 --> 00:23:30.779 is very powerful. Third, Gandhi spent his life 00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:33.160 in pursuit of truth. That was the other word 00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:35.920 that he used morning, noon, and night, truth. 00:23:36.779 --> 00:23:41.819 To the point that Gandhi said that truth is God. 00:23:42.759 --> 00:23:45.680 We would say God is truth. I am the way, the 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:49.319 truth, and the life. But Gandhi was trying to 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:52.279 unpack that for us and said this amazing statement, 00:23:52.420 --> 00:23:55.460 truth is God. And he invents the word satyagraha, 00:23:55.640 --> 00:23:59.500 truth force. or the persistent clinging to truth, 00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:03.779 to talk about the human journey as a journey 00:24:03.779 --> 00:24:06.799 toward the truth. And every human being has a 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:09.759 piece of the truth, but none of us have it all. 00:24:10.319 --> 00:24:13.980 And the flip side of truth is total nonviolence. 00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:16.119 You can't get to the truth through violence. 00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:19.279 And the purpose of nonviolence is to lead to 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:23.640 the truth, which is God. So in his pursuit of 00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:27.539 the truth, He concluded that, well, we have to 00:24:27.539 --> 00:24:29.559 be people of nonviolence then because violence 00:24:29.559 --> 00:24:32.660 doesn't work. The means are the ends. You reap 00:24:32.660 --> 00:24:39.519 what you sow. And we were created to live together 00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:43.299 in peace in cultures of nonviolence. So very 00:24:43.299 --> 00:24:46.039 beautiful. You don't hear much about truth these 00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:49.259 days in the United States, anywhere for that 00:24:49.259 --> 00:24:52.079 matter. And we can all think about how, what 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:55.279 is truth? mean for us and how honest do we want 00:24:55.279 --> 00:24:57.339 to be and how relentless are we in our pursuit 00:24:57.339 --> 00:25:00.779 of truth. Number four, in the famous trial of 00:25:00.779 --> 00:25:06.299 1922, he had an extraordinary statement. Gandhi 00:25:06.299 --> 00:25:10.599 said, non -cooperation with evil is as much a 00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:14.279 duty as cooperation with good. I think that's 00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:16.519 critically important. In other words, Gandhi 00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:20.609 said 100 years ago, Things are so bad in the 00:25:20.609 --> 00:25:23.210 world, evil is now institutionalized at such 00:25:23.210 --> 00:25:26.009 an unparalleled level that we can destroy the 00:25:26.009 --> 00:25:29.049 planet, that it's not enough to try to be good 00:25:29.049 --> 00:25:34.349 and to do good even. You have to also resist 00:25:34.349 --> 00:25:37.230 evil, if you see what I mean. In other words, 00:25:37.250 --> 00:25:39.549 you can't just say, I'm a peaceful person and 00:25:39.549 --> 00:25:42.950 I believe in peace. You know, if that's all you 00:25:42.950 --> 00:25:45.410 do, Archbishop Tutu would say, you're the problem. 00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:50.019 You have to speak up publicly and take action 00:25:50.019 --> 00:25:55.460 publicly against permanent war. It's not enough 00:25:55.460 --> 00:25:58.299 to be against violence. You have to be public 00:25:58.299 --> 00:26:02.980 practitioners of active nonviolence. My friend 00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:07.259 Ignacio A. Correa, one of the six Jesuits assassinated 00:26:07.259 --> 00:26:12.480 in El Salvador in 1989, said to me the day I 00:26:12.480 --> 00:26:17.140 met him in 1985, that we, the Jesuits here in 00:26:17.140 --> 00:26:19.019 El Salvador, and this guy wrote the pastoral 00:26:19.019 --> 00:26:22.019 letters for St. Oscar Romero, Herr Correa said, 00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:28.680 we are trying to be for the kingdom of God, but 00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:31.759 we have learned the hard way through the death 00:26:31.759 --> 00:26:34.400 squads and tyranny and oppression of Salvador 00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:37.559 that if you claim to be for the reign of God, 00:26:37.779 --> 00:26:41.039 you have to stand up publicly against the anti 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:44.730 -reign. That's what Gandhi's talking about. You 00:26:44.730 --> 00:26:46.430 want to be good, you have to stand up against 00:26:46.430 --> 00:26:49.990 institutionalized systemic evil. Number five, 00:26:50.150 --> 00:26:53.730 Gandhi said that the way to peace involves risk 00:26:53.730 --> 00:26:57.690 and sacrifice. Now this is also critically important. 00:26:57.710 --> 00:26:59.750 You see this in the life of Jesus going to the 00:26:59.750 --> 00:27:04.269 cross. That if we might think of ourselves as 00:27:04.269 --> 00:27:06.349 peacemakers or working for peace, but if there's 00:27:06.349 --> 00:27:11.210 no sacrifice, no risk involved, how real or authentic 00:27:11.210 --> 00:27:14.509 is it? How godly is it in a world of total war? 00:27:16.210 --> 00:27:20.930 What he's talking about is a willingness to give 00:27:20.930 --> 00:27:24.769 our lives nonviolently for a new nonviolent world. 00:27:25.769 --> 00:27:29.650 He had many sentences like this, just as in the 00:27:29.650 --> 00:27:34.809 art of violence and war requires a willingness 00:27:34.809 --> 00:27:39.450 to kill, the art of nonviolence and peace. requires 00:27:39.450 --> 00:27:41.569 the willingness to be killed. I'm not talking 00:27:41.569 --> 00:27:45.609 about a masochistic death wish to be a martyr. 00:27:45.710 --> 00:27:49.430 I'm talking about a willingness before God. Whatever 00:27:49.430 --> 00:27:52.930 you want, I will do. Your will, not mine, even 00:27:52.930 --> 00:27:55.609 if it would help to give my life for suffering 00:27:55.609 --> 00:27:58.390 humanity. The early Christians put it this way. 00:27:58.450 --> 00:28:01.230 If you want to follow Jesus, if you want to stand 00:28:01.230 --> 00:28:03.450 against the Roman Empire, you have to participate 00:28:03.450 --> 00:28:06.880 in the Paschal Mystery. the cross and resurrection 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:10.519 of Jesus. And Gandhi really studied and thought 00:28:10.519 --> 00:28:14.319 a lot about the cross, more than most. And he 00:28:14.319 --> 00:28:17.839 says that's the path to peace. Well, who talks 00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:21.400 about that now? If you study Dr. King's speeches, 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:24.920 he's talking about the cross and accepting suffering 00:28:24.920 --> 00:28:28.299 without retaliating in the nonviolent struggle 00:28:28.299 --> 00:28:32.200 for justice every single day. I've looked at 00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:35.640 his speeches. I think we're so comfortable here, 00:28:35.700 --> 00:28:39.240 most of us upper class, well -educated white 00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:44.720 people, that we're not taking risks or feeling 00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:49.400 the brunt of global oppression. But we have to 00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:52.099 be willing to get on the side of the poor and 00:28:52.099 --> 00:28:56.579 oppressed and the enemy and get out into the 00:28:56.579 --> 00:28:59.839 trenches and experience and practice nonviolence. 00:29:00.859 --> 00:29:03.160 to the point that it's really costly. We're talking 00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:07.079 about, to paraphrase Bonhoeffer, costly nonviolence, 00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:10.980 not cheap nonviolence. Number six, maybe I'm 00:29:10.980 --> 00:29:13.960 repeating myself here. I guess I am. Gandhi said, 00:29:14.099 --> 00:29:18.259 this is going a little farther, that nonviolence 00:29:18.259 --> 00:29:22.480 requires accepting suffering. So before I was 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:25.519 trying to get at risk, which is why I've done 00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:28.039 so much civil disobedience, but here in this 00:29:28.039 --> 00:29:31.839 point, Wow, this is so tough to even say. Gandhi 00:29:31.839 --> 00:29:35.619 said the practitioner of nonviolence has to court 00:29:35.619 --> 00:29:39.619 suffering. You court it. You're seeking it. Like 00:29:39.619 --> 00:29:44.519 Jesus. For what? Your personal disarmament and 00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:47.759 transformation? For political nonviolent revolution? 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:51.039 And in Gandhi's words, to see God face to face. 00:29:51.700 --> 00:29:54.279 Well, wow, is that politically incorrect to talk 00:29:54.279 --> 00:29:56.619 about accepting suffering? And you think that's 00:29:56.619 --> 00:29:59.920 bad? Listen to this sentence. Nonviolence in 00:29:59.920 --> 00:30:03.200 its dynamic condition means conscious suffering. 00:30:05.180 --> 00:30:09.140 It does not mean meek submission to the will 00:30:09.140 --> 00:30:13.779 of the evildoer. It means the pitting of one's 00:30:13.779 --> 00:30:18.700 whole soul against the will of the tyrant. Working 00:30:18.700 --> 00:30:22.599 under this law of our being, It is possible for 00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:26.000 a single individual to defy the whole might of 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:29.779 an unjust empire to save honor, religion, and 00:30:29.779 --> 00:30:33.539 soul, and lay the foundation for that empire's 00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:35.940 fall or regeneration. Of course, he's talking 00:30:35.940 --> 00:30:38.799 about Jesus there on the cross, who sowed the 00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:42.390 seeds for the fall of the Roman Empire. Well, 00:30:42.430 --> 00:30:44.450 I could go on and on about that, but again, this 00:30:44.450 --> 00:30:47.130 is the question of how far do we want to go in 00:30:47.130 --> 00:30:52.750 our nonviolence? And what are we willing to risk 00:30:52.750 --> 00:30:56.609 and how far, what are we willing to suffer and 00:30:56.609 --> 00:31:00.430 how are we willing to lay down our lives? And 00:31:00.430 --> 00:31:03.369 so I just invite all of us to go before Jesus 00:31:03.369 --> 00:31:05.730 in our prayer and reflect on those questions 00:31:05.730 --> 00:31:09.470 as the world moves closer to the brink. You know, 00:31:09.509 --> 00:31:13.519 what are we willing to give? for the disarmament 00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:18.400 of the world. Number seven, Gandhi learned over 00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:21.380 time that prayer is essential. If you're serious 00:31:21.380 --> 00:31:23.299 about peace and justice, he had this beautiful 00:31:23.299 --> 00:31:26.039 sentence, mute prayer is my greatest weapon. 00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:28.259 He was saying that in the thirties, but right 00:31:28.259 --> 00:31:30.680 now he's this world famous revolutionary and 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:34.480 people were going, what? Mute prayer? Let's get 00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:38.099 on with the revolution. But it was a slow journey 00:31:38.099 --> 00:31:42.539 for him. In South Africa, By the time he's in 00:31:42.539 --> 00:31:47.980 the 1930s, he was spending one hour in silent 00:31:47.980 --> 00:31:51.460 prayer every morning in the ashram, usually around 00:31:51.460 --> 00:31:54.079 3 a .m. And he'd read a sentence or two from 00:31:54.079 --> 00:31:55.759 the Bhagavad Gita and the Sermon on the Mount. 00:31:55.859 --> 00:31:59.279 I know I went to the place where he did it in 00:31:59.279 --> 00:32:02.940 Ahmedabad with Arun. And then he would have a 00:32:02.940 --> 00:32:05.259 five o 'clock prayer service and they'd read 00:32:05.259 --> 00:32:08.440 the same readings and have these beautiful songs. 00:32:09.289 --> 00:32:12.650 This great Hindu song, his Muslim song of peace, 00:32:12.849 --> 00:32:17.890 and the Christian hymn to love. Remember in the 00:32:17.890 --> 00:32:20.349 movie, he dies as he's walking to the five o 00:32:20.349 --> 00:32:24.289 'clock prayer service. Now, he said in his autobiography 00:32:24.289 --> 00:32:28.710 that the goal of everything I'm doing is to see 00:32:28.710 --> 00:32:32.589 God face to face. That's a very profound statement. 00:32:33.329 --> 00:32:37.430 And he is really busy, let's say, leading a revolution. 00:32:38.670 --> 00:32:41.009 Everybody in the world wanting to see him so 00:32:41.009 --> 00:32:44.029 that by the 1930s, he's going, I'm not, I'm not, 00:32:44.029 --> 00:32:46.950 I need to go deeper into nonviolence. So he declares 00:32:46.950 --> 00:32:51.069 Monday his day of silence. So he doesn't talk 00:32:51.069 --> 00:32:53.089 to people. He can sit there and write little 00:32:53.089 --> 00:32:56.549 notes, but he refused to talk so that he could 00:32:56.549 --> 00:33:01.730 be like the embodiment of peace. And he was always 00:33:01.730 --> 00:33:04.150 training to be assassinated. He knew the day 00:33:04.150 --> 00:33:07.500 would come and he wanted to. Be very nonviolent 00:33:07.500 --> 00:33:11.920 and in his heart, totally nonviolent and so forgiving. 00:33:12.059 --> 00:33:14.200 That leads me to my next point, number eight. 00:33:14.480 --> 00:33:17.099 Gandhi was completely dedicated to purity of 00:33:17.099 --> 00:33:20.460 heart. Okay, why do I say that? Well, in those 00:33:20.460 --> 00:33:23.059 collected writings, I went through all the letters 00:33:23.059 --> 00:33:27.460 of Gandhi. I mean, so there's no computer, there's 00:33:27.460 --> 00:33:30.859 no nothing, but he wrote 20 letters a day for 00:33:30.859 --> 00:33:33.660 70 years, if you think about that. And the government 00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:36.710 has collected them. And he's always writing about 00:33:36.710 --> 00:33:39.170 the Sermon on the Mount and Jesus, but the one 00:33:39.170 --> 00:33:41.710 verse that puzzled him and challenged him the 00:33:41.710 --> 00:33:44.289 most, and I've said this on an earlier podcast, 00:33:44.390 --> 00:33:47.529 I think it's the sixth beatitude, depending on 00:33:47.529 --> 00:33:50.869 how you count them. Blessed are the clean of 00:33:50.869 --> 00:33:53.410 heart, they will see God. Blessed are the pure 00:33:53.410 --> 00:33:56.410 of heart, the nonviolent of heart. So there's 00:33:56.410 --> 00:34:00.380 that thing. I want to see God face to face. My 00:34:00.380 --> 00:34:03.539 teacher, Jesus, says to do that, I have to have 00:34:03.539 --> 00:34:09.159 a totally nonviolent heart. I can't have any 00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:11.780 more violence inside me, not a hard heart, not 00:34:11.780 --> 00:34:15.519 aggression, not judgment, self -righteous, anger, 00:34:15.679 --> 00:34:18.300 all of that has to go. And he would write throughout 00:34:18.300 --> 00:34:21.420 his life, how do I do that? How are you working 00:34:21.420 --> 00:34:24.559 on having purity of heart? Well, this is, of 00:34:24.559 --> 00:34:28.440 course, very great instruction. And Thomas Merton, 00:34:30.250 --> 00:34:33.130 said a spectacular thing, in my opinion, about 00:34:33.130 --> 00:34:35.869 Gandhi in his beautiful book, Gandhi and Nonviolence. 00:34:36.250 --> 00:34:40.329 He said, unlike everybody else in all the movements 00:34:40.329 --> 00:34:44.309 who ever lived, Gandhi's work for peace and justice 00:34:44.309 --> 00:34:48.650 was the fruit of an inner unity already realized. 00:34:49.690 --> 00:34:51.989 So think about that. The rest of us are going, 00:34:52.050 --> 00:34:54.570 we're going out there and we're going to make 00:34:54.570 --> 00:34:59.050 you people be peaceful. I'm going to force you 00:34:59.050 --> 00:35:01.789 to be peaceful and be just. Merton is saying 00:35:01.789 --> 00:35:06.159 Gandhi. worked so hard at his inner transformation, 00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:08.559 allowed God to disarm him so much that he becomes 00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:11.780 like Jesus, a spiritual explosion. He becomes 00:35:11.780 --> 00:35:15.280 contagious and touches 300 million Indian people 00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:17.920 and people around the world up to this day. Very 00:35:17.920 --> 00:35:21.900 powerful lesson. Number nine, Gandhi insisted 00:35:21.900 --> 00:35:25.260 that if you want to work for justice and disarmament 00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:28.139 and creation, you have to live in solidarity 00:35:28.139 --> 00:35:30.739 with the poorest of the poor. You have to become 00:35:30.739 --> 00:35:34.340 poor, serve the poor, join and constructive programs 00:35:34.340 --> 00:35:38.440 that relieve and end poverty and promote a just, 00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:44.039 more just society. So he gave away all his money 00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:47.360 and renounced his career, his law firm, created 00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:50.559 a communal farm, made his own clothes, dressed 00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:53.900 like the poorest Indian peasants, shared their 00:35:53.900 --> 00:35:56.980 meager diets, and served and listened to the 00:35:56.980 --> 00:35:59.989 poor every day for the rest of his life. And 00:35:59.989 --> 00:36:03.090 the part of, you know, going to jail and siding 00:36:03.090 --> 00:36:05.250 with the untouchables was another way to share 00:36:05.250 --> 00:36:09.429 in the poverty of the masses. This is a very 00:36:09.429 --> 00:36:13.210 famous quote, often called the Gandhi talisman, 00:36:13.210 --> 00:36:16.670 which I end my collection with. I will give you 00:36:16.670 --> 00:36:21.730 a talisman. Whenever you are in doubt or when 00:36:21.730 --> 00:36:24.869 the self becomes too much with you, apply the 00:36:24.869 --> 00:36:29.489 following test. recall the face of the poorest 00:36:29.489 --> 00:36:32.429 and the weakest person whom you have ever seen, 00:36:32.530 --> 00:36:37.610 and ask yourself if the next step you contemplate 00:36:37.610 --> 00:36:41.670 is going to be of any use to that person. Will 00:36:41.670 --> 00:36:44.849 that person gain anything by what you're about 00:36:44.849 --> 00:36:49.070 to do? Will it restore that person to a little 00:36:49.070 --> 00:36:51.550 bit more control over his or her own life and 00:36:51.550 --> 00:36:54.840 destiny? In other words, will it lead to freedom 00:36:54.840 --> 00:36:57.539 for the hungry and spiritually starving millions? 00:36:58.420 --> 00:37:02.300 Then you will find your doubts and yourself melting 00:37:02.300 --> 00:37:07.460 away. Wow, he wrote that to somebody about five 00:37:07.460 --> 00:37:13.420 months before he was killed. Number 10, Gandhi 00:37:13.420 --> 00:37:16.840 taught the power of nonviolence meant rejecting 00:37:16.840 --> 00:37:23.889 all worldly power and embracing powerlessness 00:37:23.889 --> 00:37:29.710 of this new life. So the afternoon before he 00:37:29.710 --> 00:37:31.750 was killed, the reporter is interviewing him 00:37:31.750 --> 00:37:35.030 and says, well, what's your advice? What have 00:37:35.030 --> 00:37:37.150 you learned? What's your greatest teaching? And 00:37:37.150 --> 00:37:39.130 he says, without missing the beat, have nothing 00:37:39.130 --> 00:37:44.500 to do with power. Reduce yourself to zero. Those 00:37:44.500 --> 00:37:47.440 are, again, very profound teachings. Again, he's 00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:50.280 talking about Jesus on the cross, what St. Paul 00:37:50.280 --> 00:37:53.559 called kenosis, emptying yourself, not grasping 00:37:53.559 --> 00:37:56.699 at God, letting go of everything and all control, 00:37:56.940 --> 00:38:00.880 appearing apparently powerless in the eyes of 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:05.059 the powerful empire, but on the other hand, becoming 00:38:05.059 --> 00:38:07.460 an instrument of the power of God, the power 00:38:07.460 --> 00:38:11.679 of nonviolence to spread through you and disarm. 00:38:13.039 --> 00:38:16.619 many people and even nations. So this is that 00:38:16.619 --> 00:38:19.500 mysterious thing between power and powerlessness 00:38:19.500 --> 00:38:22.360 and what is power, the power of God, which is 00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:25.380 apparent powerlessness, the crucified Jesus, 00:38:25.659 --> 00:38:28.400 but is more powerful than all the so -called 00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:30.739 powers and weapons and empires of the world combined. 00:38:31.199 --> 00:38:36.260 Maybe I'll just end with one more point. It's 00:38:36.260 --> 00:38:40.599 a very hard one for us, but it's at the heart 00:38:40.599 --> 00:38:46.840 of Hinduism. which is that as we give our lives 00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:49.920 for peace and justice, we renounce the fruit 00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:52.820 of our action. In other words, and Merton was 00:38:52.820 --> 00:38:57.860 very big on this, we seek peace, justice, disarmament. 00:38:57.860 --> 00:38:59.860 So we're working for the end of all war and the 00:38:59.860 --> 00:39:04.019 end of the wars in Ukraine and the massacres 00:39:04.019 --> 00:39:07.380 in Gaza by Israel and funded by the United States 00:39:07.380 --> 00:39:10.059 and the wars in Africa and nuclear weapons and 00:39:10.059 --> 00:39:12.739 extreme positive. poverty and all of it. But 00:39:12.739 --> 00:39:16.280 at the same time, interiorly, we let go of the 00:39:16.280 --> 00:39:19.800 results of our action. So we're practicing, Gandhi 00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:23.519 insisted, an inner detachment. Instead of being 00:39:23.519 --> 00:39:26.360 successful, hey, I did it, I ended the war. We're 00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:29.500 just faithful and letting God work through us. 00:39:31.460 --> 00:39:34.079 Instead of saying, I'm going to be effective 00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:37.519 and do this. Well, that's what the Pentagon is 00:39:37.519 --> 00:39:40.940 about. We risk the ineffectiveness of apparent 00:39:40.940 --> 00:39:44.039 failure, the life of prayer and suffering love 00:39:44.039 --> 00:39:46.960 of the nonviolent Jesus on the cross, which is 00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:49.699 totally disarming, transforming the world. Instead 00:39:49.699 --> 00:39:52.880 of trying to be relevant, we practice the irrelevance 00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:56.320 of the nonviolent Jesus. So he's talking about 00:39:56.320 --> 00:40:00.920 really surrendering ourselves to God, trusting 00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:03.460 that the outcome is in better hands than ours. 00:40:03.579 --> 00:40:06.869 It's in the hands of God. And if we remain faithful 00:40:06.869 --> 00:40:10.110 to God's way of love and nonviolence and universal 00:40:10.110 --> 00:40:12.829 compassion and peace, our lives will bear good 00:40:12.829 --> 00:40:16.530 fruit according to God's will. That's a very 00:40:16.530 --> 00:40:19.550 deep and very helpful spiritual practice. And 00:40:19.550 --> 00:40:23.949 if we work on that, it'll keep us all faithful 00:40:23.949 --> 00:40:27.369 to the journey, I think. Let me end with a story. 00:40:28.150 --> 00:40:30.650 And forgive me for my name dropping. It was the 00:40:30.650 --> 00:40:36.429 day the George W. Bush launched. The war on Iraq, 00:40:36.670 --> 00:40:41.010 I think that was March 2003. Might have been 00:40:41.010 --> 00:40:45.400 March 2002. So yeah, it was March 2002. I happened 00:40:45.400 --> 00:40:48.000 to be with my longtime friend Joan Baez that 00:40:48.000 --> 00:40:51.539 night in Santa Fe. And I was complaining to her, 00:40:51.579 --> 00:40:54.940 as I often do, because she's this elder of nonviolence, 00:40:54.940 --> 00:40:56.940 in my opinion. And I was saying, we've tried 00:40:56.940 --> 00:41:00.340 so much to stop this war, doing this, this, and 00:41:00.340 --> 00:41:02.420 this. And I was in so much trouble. We were having 00:41:02.420 --> 00:41:06.780 no luck. And she's listening there. And I finally 00:41:06.780 --> 00:41:09.719 stop and pause. And she goes, well, John, you 00:41:09.719 --> 00:41:13.940 know what Gandhi would say? Well, that was electrifying 00:41:13.940 --> 00:41:17.139 to me because nobody in my life has ever said, 00:41:17.179 --> 00:41:21.000 well, you know what Gandhi would say, John. And 00:41:21.000 --> 00:41:24.860 she gave one of the great quotes of Gandhi, which 00:41:24.860 --> 00:41:29.380 I invite you to think on. Full effort is full 00:41:29.380 --> 00:41:33.679 victory. Hey, John, full effort is full victory. 00:41:33.739 --> 00:41:38.039 So I invite us all to go full on with all we 00:41:38.039 --> 00:41:42.659 can like Gandhi. into active creative nonviolence 00:41:42.659 --> 00:41:44.960 and building a movement of nonviolence and doing 00:41:44.960 --> 00:41:49.039 our part to welcome God's reign of earth. So 00:41:49.039 --> 00:41:50.619 thank you, dear friends, for listening to the 00:41:50.619 --> 00:41:53.460 Nonviolent Jesus podcast. I hope you can get 00:41:53.460 --> 00:41:56.420 my Gandhi book as well. You can hear more podcasts 00:41:56.420 --> 00:42:00.159 and find other upcoming Zooms at beatitudescenter 00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:03.460 .org. And please consider offering a donation 00:42:03.460 --> 00:42:06.739 to support this free work. If you can... You 00:42:06.739 --> 00:42:08.840 might want to leave some positive feedback or 00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:13.599 a view at NCR or Apple or Spotify or YouTube, 00:42:13.719 --> 00:42:16.579 whatever platform you use. And please help spread 00:42:16.579 --> 00:42:19.659 the word about this podcast by telling your friends 00:42:19.659 --> 00:42:22.219 and colleagues about it. May the God of peace 00:42:22.219 --> 00:42:25.019 bless you all. Keep on following the nonviolent 00:42:25.019 --> 00:42:27.219 Jesus. See you next time. Thanks.