Welcome to the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. I'm
John, Father John Deere, and today I'm speaking
with my friend Art Laffin, longtime Catholic
worker, author, and peace activist. This is a
project of www .beatitudecenter .org, where you
can find many other podcasts and regular Zoom
programs on the nonviolence of Jesus and practicing
nonviolence and working for a more just, more
nonviolent world. So let's begin with a little
prayer. So I invite all our listeners, wherever
you are, just to take a deep breath and just
to relax and go ahead and notice how you're feeling
and center yourself again. And together, let's
enter into the presence of the God of peace who
loves you infinitely and personally and everyone.
And let's welcome the nonviolent Jesus here with
us. Just take a moment to ask for whatever graces
you need to follow Jesus more faithfully and
do God's will of peace and love. Beloved God
of peace, thank you for all the blessings of
life, love, and peace that you give us. Be with
us now as we reflect together on your call to
follow the nonviolent Jesus and work for a more
nonviolent world. more just world. Bless us,
inspire us, disarm us, strengthen us, and send
us out to do your will and to do our part to
help end poverty, war, racism, greed, injustice,
fascism, nuclear weapons, and environmental destruction,
that we might be your holy beatitude people,
your holy peacemakers, and welcome your reign
of universal love, nonviolence, and peace on
earth. In Jesus' name, amen. It's a great pleasure
to welcome my friend Art Laffin here today to
the podcast, longtime peace activist, author,
and Catholic worker. I first met Art the day
I met Phil Berrigan in 1982. He's a longtime
member of the Dorothy Day Catholic Worker in
Washington, D .C., where I'm speaking to him
at, where he lives with his wife and son. He's
been active in the faith -based nonviolent movements
for peace, social justice, disarmament, and human
rights really all his life. He's been imprisoned
many times and arrested many times for his involvement
in nonviolent actions and two plowshares disarmament
actions. And he's the author of a new edition
of his beautiful book, The Risk of the Cross,
Living Gospel Nonviolence in the Nuclear Age.
He's co -editor of Swords into Plowshares, which
kind of documents the plowshares movement, and
co -editor of the new book of poetry by Anne
Montgomery, our friend, called Arise and Witness,
poems by sisters. Sister Ann Montgomery about
faith, prison, war zones, and nonviolent resistance.
Welcome, Art Laffin, to the Nonviolent Jesus
Podcast. John, I'm so honored and humbled to
be invited to be on your great... podcast and
to be part of this great ministry that you're
doing. Great. Thanks, Art. So how did you become
Art Laffin? That's kind of my question. How did
you first get involved with the Catholic Worker
and with Peace Work? You were in Connecticut,
and then you landed in Dorothy Day. But then
the amazing thing, Art, is you've stayed with
it since the 70s. And that's the key thing. Tell
us about your journey. Well, thanks, Sean. It's
really through God's amazing grace. I was 22
years old, and I was led to hear and meet gospel
-based peace and justice makers. In 1976, I heard
Archbishop Downholder Camera from Brazil and
Mother Teresa speak at the Eucharistic Congress.
That same year, I attended the Catholic Peace
Fellowship Conference where... I met Catholic
pacifists and war resistors. And then I went
off to play and coach basketball in Holland for
a season. And it was during that time in Europe
I was really rediscovering my faith and met some
remarkable peacemakers. I actually had a chance
to meet Dom Helder Camera and Marie Corrigan
McGuire, a friend of ours, at a peace conference
that was sponsored by Dom Helder in Northern
Ireland. And I later met people like Lanza Del
Vasto, the founder of the art community, as well
as World War II COs at an international fellowship
of reconciliation peace conference in England.
So these and other experiences led me to prayerfully
read the gospel and really see for myself that
Jesus was commanding. and all followers of Jesus
for all time to embrace his command of unconditional
love, including our enemies, to put away the
sword and to renounce all forms of violence and
killing. And so upon my return from Europe to
my hometown of Hartford, Connecticut, where I
was raised, This is in 1977. I connected with
draft resistors like John Bach, who introduced
me to the Atlantic Life community. And then I
met Phil and Dan Berrigan. I went to a protest
at Electric Boat Shipyard in Groton, Connecticut,
for the first time during the fall of 1977. And
I saw the first Triton submarine being built
with the Pentagon called the ultimate first strike
weapon. And, John, I could not believe it. And
my first question was, where is the church? And
the institutional church was virtually silent.
There were only a handful of peacemakers that
were really committed to trying to stop the Trident
program. And so I asked the question, what would
Jesus have me do? And so. In 1978, I helped form
with Dean Hammer the Covenant Peace Community
in New Haven with a main focus on working with
others to nonviolently resist the Trident Program
and to call for economic conversion of electric
boats and non -military production. And then
in the spring of 78, I met Dorothy Day for the
first time. at a mass at Mary House Catholic
Worker in New York City, which made a lasting
impression on me. There was Dorothy in prayer.
That's my first image of her in prayer at the
Eucharist. And where would we be without Dorothy
Day's exemplary gospel witness and commitment
to nonviolence? You just think about how she
influenced Dan and Phil Berrigan. Thomas Merton,
several generations of peacemakers, including
you and me. I also met during that time the Habakkusha
A -bomb survivors who had come to New York City
to attend the first UN special session on disarmament,
and they had a very deep impact on me. I fasted
during this 37 -day UN session. to repent from
my own complicity in the arms race. And my first
arrest was at the conclusion of this UN conference
on disarmament. On June 12th, at the US mission
to the UN, were hundreds of peacemakers who were
arrested, called on the United States to disarm
and abolish its nuclear arsenal. The Covenant
Peace Community... It disbanded in 1983, and
then Elmer Moss and I formed the Isaiah Peace
Ministry in New Haven. And in 1990, after being
released from prison for the Thames River Plowshares
action, I moved to Washington, D .C. to be part
of the Catholic Worker. That's a great story.
So tell me about life at the Dorothy Day Catholic
Worker over these last 35 years and your ministry
there. Well, yeah. Well, really more than that,
of course. Yeah. So Dorothy Day Catholic Worker
House was established in 1981 by our good friend,
Father Dick McSorley, who died in 2002. And the
focus of the house has been to provide hospitality
to formerly unhoused families and advocate for
gospel, nonviolence, peace and social justice.
And since its inception, numerous families have
been assisted. On Wednesdays, there's a food
giveaway. On Thursdays, there's a feast on the
street with Our Lady Queen of Peace Church in
Arlington now taking the lead. There's monthly
clarification of thought meetings. There are
weekly peace vigils at the Pentagon and White
House, and we participate in numerous other nonviolent
actions for peace and social justice. including
now trying with other faith activists to stop
the criminal U .S.-backed Israeli genocide war
in Gaza and the current immoral budget bill,
which not only give huge tax breaks to the rich
while massively cutting Medicaid and programs
helping the poor, but would also increase the
Pentagon budget to a trillion dollars. Unbelievable.
So there are three of us full -time Catholic
workers now at the house. We just recently lost
Michael Walley, presente. And we're blessed to
have an amazing extended support community. And
I thank God for all the Catholic workers and
families who have lived at Dorothy Day House
since I've been involved here and before. know,
and you've already mentioned our great, great
teachers and mentors who became our friends and
who changed our lives. I wondered if you could
say a word about a lesson you learned from each
of them. Father Richard McSorley, who's not that
well known outside of D .C., the Jesuit, taught
at Georgetown, but was totally anti -war and
a friend of the Kennedys and Dr. King. And then,
of course, Daniel and Philip Berrigan. Maybe
a personal lesson or anecdote from each of them.
Yeah, well, as you mentioned, I mean, they were
all mentors to me and great prophets of peace.
They were all doers of the word who really led
by example. They made the word flesh. They never
gave up. They kept their eyes on the prize. Dick
was, Father Dick McSorley was a great teacher
of gospel nonviolence. His article, It's a Sin
to Build a Nuclear Weapon, and his book, The
New Testament Basis of Peacemaking, are must
-reads for all followers of Jesus and peacemakers
today. Those are two books that had a great influence
on me. Yeah, me too. And then Phil had this courageous
faith. And he would always say, faith is the
antidote to fear. Don't get paralyzed by your
faith. And I would commend to everybody listening
a new book of Phil's writings, A Ministry of
Risk, that was edited by Brad Wolf. Phil spent
over 10 years in prison for resisting a war -making
empire. And one of the last things he was advocating
before he died was a national strike. And that's
certainly needed right now. And for Dan, Dan
had this steadfast faithfulness like Phil. And
he practiced an ethic of resurrection. In a time
when genocide has become normalized and in light
of the empire's present reign of terror, I feel
like every day we're witnessing the crucifixion
on so many levels in our world. And where do
we find hope? And I find Dan's ethic of resurrection
very helpful, especially when he says, and I
have to just quote this real quick. He says,
We've yet to experience resurrection, which I
translate the hope that hope's on. For us, all
of these repeated arrests, the interminable jailings,
the life of our small communities, the discipline
of nonviolence, these have embodied an ethic
of resurrection. Simply put, we long to taste
that event. We want to test the resurrection
in our bones. to see if we might live in hope
instead of in the thicket of cultural despair,
nuclear despair, a world of perpetual war. We
want to taste the resurrection. May I say we
have not been disappointed. What a great quote,
Mike. So this is Dan's ethic of resurrection,
and it's the daily challenge for me and all of
us to cultivate and practice this ethic of resurrection.
Resurrection hope. I'm so glad you read that,
Art. That's from the very last page of my writings
of Daniel Berrigan called Daniel Berrigan Essential
Writings. And I don't know if you know the story
about that. In 1983, he was ordered to give a
speech to 800 Jesuits to debate nuclear weapons
by one of the leading generals. And he said,
no, I'm not going to do it. Why are you having
a general? And sure enough, he had to do it.
So he gets up there. So the general got up there
and said, hey, you guys are great. These are
all priests. But just leave everything to us.
We'll take care of everything. And he got a standing
ovation. And then Dan stood up and gave. I think
the most brilliant speech of his life, which
I had saved and found in 1983. It's not published
anywhere else. And that's where he says, what
you just quoted, after this incredible testimony,
you know, I don't want to go to jail, but what
we're trying to do here is practice resurrection.
And we want to taste the resurrection. And the
last sentence, may I say, we've not been disappointed.
What a thing to say. And no one, he walked away
from the podium and no one said anything. And
that was the end of the conference. He was totally
ignored by the other Jesuits. He was a great
saint and prophet. Now, another one that you
knew, our other friend, but not quite like Dan,
is the great spiritual writer, Henry Nowen, whom
you brought with you when you were living in
Connecticut while he was teaching at Yale. to
a Good Friday peace witness. And I remember,
Art, when Henry died, we drove from D .C. all
the way to Toronto together to be at his funeral.
It was one of the most memorable events of my
life because there were thousands of people there.
We did the Prayers of the Faithful with Fred
Rogers. Tell me a thought or two or a lesson
or two that you learned from Henry Nouwen. Well,
thanks for... sharing that story about Dan. And
so, you know, Henry, I was, I was blessed really
to know Henry as a friend and he supported me
in my, my ministry. And he sent me books when
I was in jail. I, I attended a Eucharist with
him on many occasions when he was teaching at
Yale Divinity School, and he regularly used to
celebrate Eucharist with us at the Covenant Peace
Community. And Henry would put his heart and
soul into celebrating the Eucharist. I'd never
been part of a Eucharist that would be more moving
than when Henry was celebrating. And he taught
me and so many the centrality of living a Eucharistic
life. a life of thanksgiving and gratitude, where
we followed Jesus wherever he would lead us,
even to places we'd rather not go. And he was
adamant about the need to cultivate a spiritual
foundation for our lives so that we can be sustained
in our ministry, in my case, service and activism.
And so he was always emphasizing that. And like
Merton, he emphasized this reciprocal relationship
between prayer and action. And so in 1985, at
the invitation of Yale Divinity School students
who were part of this disarming group that Dean
Hammer and I were working with, we asked Henry
to lead the Stations of the Cross. on Good Friday
at Electric Boat Shipyard. And this was an annual
witness our community would sponsor every year.
And it was the first time Henry ever did something
like this. And it made a profound impact on him.
Yeah, yeah. And I would, John, I hope you don't
mind. I want to commend to everybody listening
to read the excellent book. that you did on henry's
peacemaking journey the road to peace yeah because
there's so much in there about henry's life and
journey including uh his experience uh that i
just mentioned yeah and that's dedicated to you
art i don't even know if you remember well thank
you i'm i'm i'm unworthy brother and humbled
and humbled remember i found when i was going
through his archives this was i started at the
month after he died I found his journal from
Selma that was published in the Netherlands in
Dutch. And I had it translated. And to this day,
I think it's the best thing ever written about
Selma. I mean, imagine Henry Nouwen writing about
Selma. For the listeners, I don't know if you
just heard Art say a moment ago, yes, and we
do a weekly vigil at the White House and the
Pentagon. Now, let's just pause there for a moment.
All the stuff Art has been doing, he's serving
the poor and writing and speaking and organizing.
Every week, he's at the Pentagon for decades
now with friends and then at the White House.
But living in D .C. now, it's almost a daily
thing. So I want to ask you about that, Art.
So you've said to me that the Catholic worker
in D .C. has been at the Pentagon every week
since 1987. And with a vigil. But I know that
with Jonah House, with Phil, it's been going
on even since the 70s. What's that like? And
what do you do? And how have you noticed any
changes over the decades? And I presume it's
a prayer experience, ultimately, to keep going
through with that. Sure, sure. Jonah House, you
know, laid the groundwork. I went to one of their
summer sessions back in 1979 and had a great
impact on me. And thank God for the Jonah House
community. And everybody's been part of it. Phil
and Liz and their beautiful children and all
the great people that we've known throughout
these decades. Really, the witness grew out of
the Jonah House and Atlantic Life community,
and there have been numerous arrest actions and
vigils since the early 1970s when Jonah House
began doing resistance there. Certainly, there
have been other actions prior to that, but Jonah
House really had a faith -based focus on resistance
to the Pentagon. Now, where we once could witness
anywhere on the Pentagon grounds, we're now only
permitted to be in a very small space and stand
behind a brand new fence that was built especially
for us. And if we go outside that fence to hold
a banner or sign, we're subject to arrest. So
several of us from the Dorothy Day Catholic Worker
and Friends of the Community hold a weekly peace
vigil at the center of war making on the planet.
Every Monday when it's a holiday, we go on Tuesday.
And there are three larger faith and resistance
witnesses every August 6th to 9th time, Good
Friday and December 28th to commemorate. the
massacre of the Holy Innocents past and present.
And so we do our best to be a witness to the
gospel of nonviolence, to advocate for all victims
of war and injustice, to call for the abolition
of all weapons in war, appeal to soldiers to
refuse to kill and become conscientious objectors.
And all workers to leave their jobs and to work
for the conversion of our war economy to one
centered on peace and meeting urgent human needs.
Amen, Art. Amen. And people say, John, people
say to us, you're such a small group. What good
does it do? And I say, what happens if we're
not there? People will never think about a nonviolent
alternative. And we know. People have been affected
by acts of public witness at the Pentagon, like
Dan Ellsberg and General Lee Butler. And there
have been people who have come up and talked
to us over time, you know, and very thoughtfully.
And some people, you know, have come by and said,
thank you, you know. And sometimes we get cursed
at and everything in between. But I view this
weekly vigil as a prayer of intercession. And
we leave the rest in God's hands. Well, thank
you. You've also participated in two plowshares
disarmament actions and spent a lot of time in
prison. And there have been over 100 plowshares
disarmament actions. I did one in 1983. Since
the first one in 1980 with the Berrigans. But
you chronicled them and you wrote a book about
the history of them, which was very helpful.
Could you just say a brief word about the Plowshares
movement in general and your own experience with
it and what happened to you? Sure, sure. Well,
the Plowshares Aid Action in 1980 at General
Electric in King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, was
a watershed moment, just like the Catonsville
Nine Action. And our eight friends engaged in
a symbolic action in flushing the biblical prophecy
of beating swords into plowshares by hammering
on components of the Minuteman III nuclear missile
that were manufactured there at GE. They were
subsequently arrested and tried by a jury, and
all were convicted and sentenced to prison terms
ranging from 18 months to 10 years. And then
the appeal process lasted a decade, and they
were resentenced and time served. Yeah, 17 months
was the longest sentence that Elmer Moss served.
But, you know, John, these actions have been
inspired. By God's amazing grace. And over 200
people from a variety of backgrounds have experienced,
have been part of these plowshares actions. 58
of the actions have taken place in the U .S.
43 have been international. And 21 of the actions
were directed at the First Strike Trident Submarine
Program. And I was part of two of those actions.
And just to say that Phil was very keen on emphasizing
that we try to disarm ourselves by disarming
the weapons. There is this reciprocal process
between disarmament of the heart and of the weapons.
And so the intent of all these actions have always
been to uphold God's law. shall not kill and
enforce international laws that prohibit crimes
against humanity. And so I believe that miracles
have occurred in actions that I and we've been
part of. So how could we ever get on board a
Trident submarine? John, how could we do it?
And in the Thames River Plowshares action, we
were able to get to the Trident. the 10th Trident
Submarine and hammer and pour blood on it. And
I just had this belief that all things are possible
if we act with the belief that God can work miracles
through us. And so, you know, there were armed
guards on the adjoining pier overlooking. where
the Trident was ported and docked. And three
of us were able to climb on top of that submarine
and read the entire 15th chapter of John's Gospel,
I am the vine, you are the branches. And so we're
eventually, MPs came and they told us to leave.
Meanwhile, there were people, two of our community,
hammering from the water on the side of the Trident.
And so anyway, we were all apprehended and given
prison sentences after trial. So my feeling is
that these actions have been what Gandhi called
experiments in truth. And I really believe, I
believe then as I do now, that if people have
the faith to believe that disarmament is possible
and act on that faith, it can happen. And we've
seen it happen. We've been part of the process
to make it happen one dent at a time. Amen, brother.
So this August marks the 80th anniversary of
the U .S. atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
I just had Frida Berrigan from Jonah House originally
on our podcast here. Yeah, and she was talking
about it. You know, my thought is there needs
to be organized vigils and nonviolent civil disobedience
at every nuclear weapons installation and plant
across the country calling for the abolition
of nuclear weapons. Give us a word about what
you think people can do to mark the... 80th anniversary
of Hiroshima coming up this August, August 6th?
Well, I would concur with everything you just
said, and we'll have a witness at the Pentagon
and at the White House. And I invite anybody
in the DMV area to join us who's listening. John,
the U .S. government has never apologized for
this unspeakable crime of using nuclear weapons
that began the nuclear age. And so on August
6, 2016, during a prayer service of repentance
and witness to commemorate the atomic bombings
of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and to call for nuclear
abolition in front of the White House, an apology
petition was read and presented to a Hiroshima
survivor. And our Dorothy Day Catholic worker
and Pax Christi were among the co -sponsors of
this witness. We had over 700 people sign the
petition. And then in September 2016, Mr. Mamaki,
who is a survivor from Hiroshima, he delivered
the petition to the mayor of Hiroshima. And later,
I understand, it was presented to the Hiroshima
Peace Museum. And to mark the 75th anniversary
of the bombings, we updated the petition. 240
people signed it, and it was sent to and received
by the mayors of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and Nihon
Hidemiko, the main A -bomb survivors organization,
who this past year received the Nobel Peace Prize.
And so this petition was really the fruit of
years of public witness by nuclear abolitionists.
met and were inspired by the Hibakusha. And Scott
Wright and I prepared the petition. And we're
doing it again. We're updating it. We're going
to be circulating it to correspond with the acts
of nonviolent witness that will be taking place.
Where can people find it? And so details are
forthcoming on that. But we need now more than
ever to heed the Cry the Habakkusha. Humanity
and nuclear weapons cannot coexist, especially
at this perilous moment. Well, Art, there's so
much to talk about, and we'll talk more in the
future. I want to end with asking you to share
some thoughts about Jesus and nonviolence. Like
you, I've been teaching the nonviolence of Jesus
for decades, and we're calling this podcast the
Nonviolent Jesus Podcast because I want people
to know that Jesus was totally nonviolent and
that if you're going to be a follower of him,
you have to try to be totally nonviolent, which
means I think fundamentally now in this country,
because we're so sick, getting rid of our guns,
quitting the military, and working publicly to
welcome God's reign of peace with justice here
on earth. So tell me some thoughts you have these
days. about the nonviolence of Jesus and the
mission of gospel nonviolence that still beckons
each one of us. Sure, sure. Well, thank you.
John, I have to commend you, brother, on the
ministry that you have been about for so long
and living and proclaiming gospel nonviolence
and the vitally important work you're doing through
the Beatitude Center. We need to heed Jesus's
gospel call to nonviolence now more than ever.
You know, in all the different experiences that
I've had in war zones with the murder of my brother,
going to prison for acts of nonviolent peacemaking.
And so many other things. I keep coming back
to this command that Jesus gives to us. And it's
a command that we have to love one another, including
our enemies. And Jesus shows us what this means
when he's on the cross. He puts into practice
this seemingly impossible command to love your
enemies. And what is he doing on the cross? He's
forgiving those who are murdering him. Just think
about that. It's just, you know, and so Jesus
doesn't ask us to do something we're not willing
to do, that he was not willing to do himself.
And so on the cross, Jesus is showing us how
to live and die, and he inaugurates a new nonviolent
history for humankind, something which you know
and have written about. And so I feel that Jesus
says in Mark's gospel, all things are possible
for the one who believes and has faith. And I
believe that. But we have to pray every day,
I believe, help my unbelief. And Dr. King's message
to us. Today is the application of what Jesus
is saying about loving your enemies. The choice
before us today is either nonviolence or non
-existence. And he goes on to say, our only hope
today lies in our ability to recapture the revolutionary
spirit and go out into a sometimes hostile world,
declaring eternal hostility to poverty, racism,
and militarism. And now we add. religious nationalism,
fascism, environmental destruction, and everything
that's destroying life. And so I really pray
for everybody who's listening that they can be
filled with the spirit of Samud, that Arabic
word for steadfastness, resilience, and hope,
and really believe that Jesus has overcome the
world. And be about the work of living and proclaiming
God's reign of love, justice, peace, and nonviolence
in resistance to a war -making empire as we all
strive to create a beloved community. And it's
a long haul made up of a lot of short hauls.
And I encourage people to do everything that
they can. Everything makes a difference. Wherever
you are, don't lose heart. Keep your eyes on
that prize and hold on. Christ is risen. Amen,
brother. Well, you're sounding like Dan there
at the end, that we could both say we're trying
to test the resurrection and even to taste the
resurrection. And I hope with Dan that you and
I and everyone listening will be able to say.
May I say I've not been disappointed. Art, as
we close, is there any last word you'd like to
give us? I think you've summed it up well. Well,
you know, I wear a shirt all the time that's
given to me by the L .A. Catholic Worker, a quote
from Dorothy, the only solution is love. And
I just, now more than ever, you know, we need
to be about. the gospel mandate of loving one
another. And, you know, there's so much fear
and mistrust and lies and distortion of the truth.
And genocide is normalized. Killing is normalized.
You know, deportation is becoming normalized.
And we have to stand for life wherever it's threatened.
And we have to be that gospel witness of nonviolence.
We're part of all these different movements.
There's a river whose streams make glad the city
of God. And we're all part of a stream to make
that river glad for the city of God. And that
river of life, love, truth, and justice and nonviolence
is rising up everywhere. And thanks be to God.
Deo gratias. Amen. Well, thank you so much, Art
Laffin, for speaking with me today. And thank
you, everyone, for listening to this episode
of the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. You can hear
many more wonderful podcasts and other upcoming
Zoom programs at www .beatitudescenter .org.
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the nonviolent Jesus. See you next time.