1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:21,560 Welcome to the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. I'm John, Father John Deer, and this is a project 2 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:30,760 of www.beattitudecenter.org, where you can find many other podcasts and regular Zoom programs on 3 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:37,560 the nonviolence of Jesus and working for a more just, peaceful world. I'm happy today to be with 4 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:43,960 my friend, author, teacher, and lecturer, Sister Joan Chidister, and this is part three of our 5 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:51,320 three-episode conversation on Jesus and the Beatitudes. So, like the other sessions, let's 6 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:57,000 begin with a short little two-second prayer. So, I just invite you, friends, just to take a deep 7 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:03,880 breath wherever you are, and just to relax and center yourself again in the presence of the God 8 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:11,960 of peace who loves you personally and infinitely and everyone else too. And let's welcome Jesus 9 00:01:11,960 --> 00:01:18,840 here into our hearts and our lives and ask for whatever graces we need to live out the Beatitudes 10 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:30,760 and follow Jesus and do God's will. God of peace, thank you for all the blessings of life and love 11 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:36,360 and peace that you give us. Be with us now as we reflect on the Beatitudes of Jesus, 12 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:43,960 that we might follow him more faithfully and do your will and be your holy Beatitude people 13 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:51,960 who do our part to welcome your reign of universal love, universal compassion, universal justice, 14 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:58,680 and universal peace. We ask this in Jesus' name, amen. So, as I said, it's my pleasure to welcome 15 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:04,280 back my friend Sister Joan Chidister, and we've been reflecting on the Beatitudes in Matthew 16 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:12,520 chapter 5, and this is the third of three episodes. And we left off last week, we had gone through, 17 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:18,680 I think, the first six Beatitudes up to Blessed are the Peacemakers. And I was just asking Joan, 18 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:26,680 when we left off the last time, that question about the Beatitude, blessed are those who hunger 19 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:32,120 and thirst for righteousness, for justice, they will be satisfied. And what, Joan, what do you 20 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:38,280 think it means to be satisfied? And I came to the conclusion in the Viktor Frankl sense that it means 21 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:45,000 you will find a deep meaning in your life if you give your life to working for justice for the 22 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:48,440 human race in such an unjust world. What do you think about that, Joan? 23 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:55,080 Well, I think all of that is absolutely correct, but I don't think it's enough of what's happening 24 00:02:55,080 --> 00:03:04,840 here. I think if you look back over these first five Beatitudes, you'll discover a pretty heavy 25 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:16,040 awareness of personal gifts, personal character, personal awareness. And then all of a sudden, 26 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:26,040 we get to the fifth Beatitude on happy are those who hunger and thirst. I mean, God, 27 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:31,480 they can't get away from it. They just don't want to stop. They love it. They know that 28 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:42,040 righteousness is the only possible pathway to the future, to the present, to happiness. Otherwise, 29 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:50,440 we're all fighting somebody, grabbing something, stealing something, throwing something away. No. 30 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:58,280 At five, we begin to recognize, we step back and we say to ourselves, oh my God, 31 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:05,960 they mean this will be my life. This is supposed to be my life, my hunger and thirst for righteousness, 32 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:16,360 a city on a hill, a light for the people. And then I run right into the sixth Beatitude, 33 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:25,400 blessed are the pure of heart. They did it for the right reason. They didn't do it to get the 34 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:34,680 presidency of the board of the life makers someplace. And then they're not going to be 35 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:42,360 someplace. They are single-hearted. They know what this is about. This is about who we are, 36 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:52,600 how we live, what we do for the way other people can live. So we get to blessed are the single 37 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:59,000 hearted. I'm not doing it for more money. I'm not doing it because my father sent me. I'm not doing 38 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:08,120 it because I can get to be the president. No, I am true. I'm telling you the truth. I see now that 39 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:18,440 I am here on earth to enable this earth to grow well, to be well. Do you understand what I'm saying? 40 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:27,880 Yes, God created the world, but God left it for the rest of us to complete it. Our world is not 41 00:05:27,880 --> 00:05:38,040 true until we are trustworthy to the whole notion that we will make it true. Our lives are now in 42 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:47,320 sync with what we say they believe and the ideals they claim. And you can see us doing them in 43 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:58,040 midnight in the basement if you want to, but that's where we are. These are the souls with bones. 44 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:06,840 They stand in behalf of the poor. They stand in behalf of the prophetic. They stand in behalf of 45 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:17,720 the marginal. So no voice in their place goes unheard. There is no truth untold. These people 46 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:29,560 keep the magnet of the electric line that starts in creation and the creator and is now locked into 47 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:38,920 me as a character, as a heart. And therefore we treat everyone as good and they see good everywhere. 48 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:46,280 Wonderful. So of course then, number seven, we are going to run right into it, aren't we? 49 00:06:46,280 --> 00:06:53,960 We're bringing our best selves. We're bringing our best motives. We are hungering and thirsting. We 50 00:06:53,960 --> 00:07:03,080 need justice here or this country is going to fall apart. Listen carefully to what I'm saying 51 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:12,360 at this time, at this moment in American history. If individuals of great heart are not reshaping 52 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:23,880 our own means of life, our own kinds of happiness, then who are we? Who are we? Because now you 53 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:30,680 see we need you. We need blessed are the peacemakers. Who are the first? 54 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:37,880 Well, thank you so much. So that leads us to the last few and I thought I could read them and then 55 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:46,040 invite you to reflect on them. So here we go. Blessed are the peacemakers. They will be called 56 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:52,520 children of God, sons and daughters of God. Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of 57 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:59,240 righteousness, for justice. Theirs is the reign of heaven. And blessed are you when they insult you 58 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:06,040 and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you falsely because of me. Rejoice and 59 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:13,240 be glad your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets before you. 60 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:19,160 Blessed are the peacemakers, Joan. Spend a little time unpacking what that means for us. In a world 61 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:29,240 of permanent war. Well, it's at this point then that we become peacemakers. We understand who and 62 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:36,840 what peacemakers are. These are the people, the souls who will seek reconciliation first. 63 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:44,200 They'll say, look, we don't want to do it this way. We have so much need for that in this country 64 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:55,720 right now. Well, they don't just oppose war. They call its end. They save its sick. They make way 65 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:07,160 for a full society of happy and holy people. And they do not under any circumstance, 66 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:15,560 seek vengeance. When I get out of here, when I get that position, I'll see that she never gets 67 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:24,520 into an office again. They will never go to school in that school again. They see life as a family 68 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:35,240 for whom we are all responsible, every one of us, in helping that group rise. We work with people, 69 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:45,080 not against them. We do not judge. And that means that the attitudes that we embrace 70 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:53,720 are attitudes that make us happy for standing with the poor, for defending the oppressed, 71 00:09:54,920 --> 00:10:02,280 for supporting righteousness, for being true to the best ideals within us, 72 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:15,160 and true to our humanity in all its forms. We have been given criteria directly from Jesus, 73 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:24,760 how to form a happy, holy world and live my own happy, holy world as well. 74 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:32,680 Thank you for thinking of this. Thank you for allowing yourself to rethink everything you ever 75 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:40,200 thought about it. And thank you for taking that first conscious step up the ladder of the 76 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:41,200 beatitude. 77 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:55,400 So, Joan, this amazing teaching here at the beginning of the Sermon on the Mount, Blessed 78 00:10:55,400 --> 00:11:02,760 are the peacemakers, is such a beautiful way to envision our lives. And that's what I've done with 79 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:08,760 my life, isn't it? To say, okay, I want to try, like I said as a young person, I want to live the 80 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:14,440 beatitudes. I want to live the Sermon on the Mount. And over time, I realized, oh, I'm called to be a 81 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:20,440 peacemaker. I want to be a peacemaker. And it's so interesting. It doesn't say, you know, blessed 82 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:27,480 are those who like peace. I really like peace. No, we're going to make peace. 83 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:28,840 Me too, try to find peace. 84 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:37,800 Yeah, and construct peace and live in God's peace. Okay. And then he says, they will be called 85 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:44,840 the sons and daughters of God. So, I think this is Jesus saying your fundamental identity is to be a 86 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:53,400 beloved daughter of God, a beloved son of God. And so, you go and make peace. But what's the most 87 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:59,880 important thing in this climactic beatitude, and I think this is the climax of the beatitudes, is 88 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:08,440 Jesus is basically saying, hey, God makes peace. God is a God of peace. And you are the sons and 89 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:13,560 daughters of God. So, you go into this world and you make peace. You don't make war. You don't 90 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:20,360 support war. You don't kill others. You don't waste your life building nuclear weapons. So, how 91 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:29,000 concretely can people be peacemakers? And what is your image of God here as a God of peace? 92 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,080 What does that mean for you, Joan Chidister? 93 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:41,720 We have to remember, John, that there's more war going on at family breakfast than we've ever seen 94 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:51,080 in our life. I mean, some our other, we ourselves have to sort out what we have been taught or 95 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:59,720 pretended to commit or to permit in our own lives. I mean, frankly, I think it would be great 96 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:09,960 if small groups, small churches would take these eight beatitudes and take one a month and then 97 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:18,200 come together and say what happened when they did it. I mean, yeah, this needs to be 98 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:27,320 made real, demystified, demonstrated. There. That's what he's saying. These are not, 99 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:38,120 I'm going to repeat it, these are not prayers of sublocation. These are understandings of the way 100 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:43,960 to live. That's important. We pay hospitals and 101 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:49,720 secular counselors all of our life. And we're right here. 102 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:56,520 Gandhi thought of the Beatitudes and the Sermon on the Mount more like an instruction manual, 103 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:02,680 like a how to be a human being book. Isn't that interesting? But Joan, tell me again, 104 00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:12,520 because I think, is it the first time he's made a book about the beatitudes and the sermons? 105 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:23,240 He mentions God. He's saying God is not a God of war, but a God of peace. I think that's 106 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:31,560 fundamental problem among us is our image of God will bless our troops and bless our conflicts and 107 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:38,600 bless our side, as Bob Dylan says, with God on our side. What do you… So, in other words, 108 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:43,320 I'm trying to ask you, what is your image of God that the Beatitudes show? 109 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:56,520 Well, see, I've long ago, I mean, I just years ago realized that… It's funny, it came at 110 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:06,920 Easter one year. I was, I suppose, in my 30s at that time, was teaching already. 111 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:14,920 But I got hung up on Christmas and Easter because everywhere it turned, they said, 112 00:15:14,920 --> 00:15:27,640 Hallelujah. And what's the… I'm tired right now. What's the Latin for God is with us? 113 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:28,680 Emmanuel. 114 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:29,880 Emmanuel. 115 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:31,240 Oh, come, oh, come, Emmanuel. 116 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:32,280 Emmanuel. He means it all the time. 117 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:33,080 Yeah, that's right. Yeah. 118 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:41,560 Yeah. So it was, Hallelujah, Emmanuel, Hallelujah, Emmanuel. And I began to say, 119 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:50,280 it is Emmanuel. Emmanuel is here. And then all of a sudden I realized that that's exactly 120 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:57,160 what I was seeing. And I've never changed. I just, I don't worry. I really don't pray 121 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:06,040 psalms of the supplicant, supplication, almost not at all. I will pray for somebody who wants 122 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:16,440 being prayed for, but I don't. I don't do it that way. I do the psalms and the hundred psalms 123 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:28,200 of the people in total concentration on the mystical world, the psalmist who says, 124 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:37,080 yeah, this is life is like this. This is how it goes. Do the best you can. And so I have often, 125 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:44,760 not for years, you heard me. I said a few minutes ago, the attitudes to me are like 126 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:54,680 a hunk of pasta mix. It's my next loaf of bread that I'm going to make. I will shape it differently. 127 00:16:55,240 --> 00:17:07,480 I will clear it. I will water it. I will find the yeast, what makes it grow. And so it's in those, 128 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:13,560 at those moments that I know Emmanuel is here. Absolutely. 129 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,520 That's great. Thank you. So then- 130 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,040 I think it might even be here this afternoon, John. You never know. 131 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:26,200 So the God of peace is with us. So, blessed are the peacemakers leads to blessed are those 132 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:33,400 persecuted for the sake of justice. The reign of God is theirs. Reflect with us on that. 133 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:38,600 Go ahead. The reign of God belongs to everyone already. 134 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:51,320 It has been given for them. But what is holding us back are the people who cannot find any life 135 00:17:51,320 --> 00:18:01,960 whatsoever in the Beatitudes. When we begin to live this up, we will be able to live this life 136 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:09,400 in, to live this out, then that we will know the reign of God within us. We'll know it. 137 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:19,560 It's there. See, one of the reasons I, one of the reasons that I've done so much in spirituality 138 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:25,640 over the years is I began to realize having coming out of the Catholic school system, 139 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:33,080 etc. And they, whatever that, what was that book? The, that the, oh, you know, 140 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:34,840 the Catechism. Yes, right. The Catechism. 141 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:42,040 Yeah, that that's what we all grew up on, the Catechism. And when after Vatican II, 142 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:51,080 and I realized the immensity of what was being asked or allowed or, or given there, 143 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:58,280 I took a deep breath and said, does anybody else but me understand that the entire old church 144 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:07,320 is going to be a different church? And, and, and yet I began to realize ironically that the liturgy 145 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:14,840 itself was always talking about the new church, the new church, the new church, the new church. 146 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:22,760 And when I got those two things together, I said, no matter where anybody asks me to go, 147 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:31,800 I, whatever they ask me to do, I will not go unless I'm going for the development of their 148 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:39,000 spirituality. I will talk about spirituality. I'm not going to talk about theology and I am 149 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:49,000 not going to talk about rules and laws and, and keepers of the, of the, of the, I guess, 150 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:58,360 the Catholic government or something of that nature. No, I wanted people to understand that 151 00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:06,360 the God within is God and that that has to be faced and developed. And, and as that happens, 152 00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:15,720 we grow differently and our world grows differently. And we are not memorizing the rules 153 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:25,800 about how you set up the, the materials for someone who is in the bed next to you died. 154 00:20:26,360 --> 00:20:34,680 I mean, we were all into, to gestures, every, everything, all the laws belong to somebody else 155 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:39,800 belonged to somebody else, all the dresses and everything that went with them, 156 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:49,560 went everywhere except to God. So, I mean, I'm being as truthful as I can be to you now. I, 157 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,520 I can't give an answer before that. 158 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:59,720 Well, let me ask you about that, Joan, in light of this last Beatitude. So, we've been talking about 159 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:09,480 really his call to humility, meekness, gentleness, and mercy, and then also hungering and thirsting 160 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:15,480 for justice and single-heartedness, and then making peace. And he says, well, you're going to be 161 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,440 persecuted. You're going to get in trouble for working for justice. In fact, you're going to get 162 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:26,040 insulted and all kinds of things are going to happen. Well, I want to ask you about that. And 163 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:31,800 then he says, rejoice and rejoice and be glad. Yeah, I've been in jail and I've been kicked out 164 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:37,800 of pretty much everything. Yeah. I mean, those little things, right. But so have you and reflect 165 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:44,360 on that. And, you know, I, I've learned you don't seek it, but I almost think like when you get in 166 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:50,520 trouble for justice and peace, well, you're fulfilling the job description or you're living 167 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:56,600 correctly because Jesus got in a lot of trouble and they killed him. And you've gotten in a lot 168 00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:05,160 of trouble, Joan. But hold that, hold that right there. Now, I do not believe that Jesus got up 169 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:12,920 one morning and said, well, today's the day I'm going to go get killed. That is not a rendering 170 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:19,640 of the crucifixion for me. They had to find him. He'd gone into the woods. He was praying 171 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:27,640 at a prayer. It was midnight. He left the whole deal and they had to find him and they had to take 172 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:33,240 troops to find him. And they were, they were on the verge of killing him right there. 173 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:41,800 And, and that whole notion right at the top of that, he was praying for help, 174 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:50,600 give me strength, help me. He wasn't, he didn't say, yeah, it's time for me to be killed. 175 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:57,080 He said, it's time. It's time for this thing to blow open. It's time for this thing to be understood. 176 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:07,640 And at that moment, then the, the, the, the spiritual heart drops everything except what is 177 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:15,080 is the great spiritual gift that has been given to this planet. It's life, life, 178 00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:28,200 life for the beetle and life for the buffalo life. And our responsibility is to see, uh, and, and 179 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:38,200 you know, the, the, the Bible is very, very clear about the notion that we are responsible for what, 180 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:48,840 what, what is it? What's the word that's used, um, uh, about animals, uh, in scripture. It's in, 181 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:55,880 it's not inchoate and so it, I'm, I'm, I'm embarrassed. I mean, I know this word, like I 182 00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:04,200 know my own name, but I'm, I'm not getting it right now. But it is the word that means animals 183 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:13,160 too. It's all for you. You are responsible. This, I made this for you and you are to make it for 184 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:21,320 others. So, you know, the messages are so much clearer, but they're, they're, they're coming at 185 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:35,000 us out of a thousand years of control with very little awareness or development in the presence 186 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:46,280 of Jesus and, and the creator. I live in the middle of the life of the creator every minute 187 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:59,000 of my life. I live in the healing of Jesus, uh, the son who is showing us the paths in his own life. 188 00:24:59,960 --> 00:25:08,360 Here is the model. Here's where it goes. And so if you put the two of them down in front of you, 189 00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:17,000 you wouldn't have two large pieces of paper. It's that. That's all there, everything else. 190 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:24,360 Somebody comes along, tries to make a buck, um, selling the right statues, not the bad ones. 191 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:34,520 But that's not where the center lies or grows. This, what you just opened this thing with 192 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:43,800 is the invitation to grow into, I'm telling you, the eight things to do. Don't tell me you don't 193 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:44,840 know what to do. 194 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:50,680 So, about this question then, um, that he's saying, well, you're going to be persecuted 195 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:59,000 and insulted if you live this path, humility and hunger and thirst for justice and mercy, 196 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,280 and you're making peace. 197 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:00,840 Lucky you. 198 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:09,640 You're going to get in trouble and rejoice and be glad, because you're living for God. I don't know. 199 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:16,200 How do we rejoice and be glad when we're in trouble for working for a new world, a new church, 200 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,120 a new humanity of justice and peace? 201 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:20,840 Just the way we're doing it right now is the way. 202 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:30,280 And the number of people who would have thrown me out of the church 30 years ago, I'm sure, 203 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,120 has doubled by this time. 204 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:38,120 Oh, you're so lucky, Joan. You have a lot to rejoice and be glad at. Actually, in Luke's 205 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:44,760 verse, he says leap for joy, which you could translate as start dancing. We should be so 206 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:51,240 happy we're in trouble. And while I experienced that in El Salvador in the 80s, the Salvadoran 207 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:56,680 church under Romero, they had a joy that I've never experienced before. And they were in a 208 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:04,680 lot of trouble. They were getting killed. So reflect with us on, we've heard about grief, 209 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:10,760 and now he ends talking and encouraging us to be joyful as we live out these Beatitudes. 210 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:15,960 And even if we're in trouble for it. You've done that. I've seen you be joyful in the midst 211 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,080 of all kinds of stuff. 212 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:27,880 Absolutely. I'm never going to give it up. I don't collect all those jokes for nothing. Gosh, 213 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:35,960 Joan, of course. And you're supposed to make your own happiness. If you're doing it right, 214 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:37,160 it's going to come out right. 215 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:43,240 So Jesus says, you know, blessed are those persecuted for the sake of justice and insulted 216 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:48,600 because of me and so forth. Rejoice and be glad. And, you know, as I think on that, 217 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:55,560 and you were talking about working for a new church and making justice and peace and showing 218 00:27:55,560 --> 00:28:03,240 mercy and this whole new vision of life, and it's so exciting. I find people and myself can be 219 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:11,560 just so bitter and depressed and angry and despairing. And I would much rather be living 220 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:17,960 out the joy that Jesus talks about as a promise of the Beatitudes. And what do you think about 221 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,680 that? How can we live out that joy? 222 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:27,240 I mean, John, listen to me. I have no idea how many hundreds of presentations I've given. 223 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:36,680 My own sisters know all of that better. But this I do know because they told me. There is 224 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:45,880 never a presentation that I make because we're weighted down on this, on this, 225 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:59,320 not just this country, but on this globe by so much selfishness, violence, 226 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:11,320 violence, powerfulness. I mean, people don't even realize that they are giving everything they have 227 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:17,800 just to get up the next morning in their own houses and have a happy life. They're having, 228 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:24,280 they're having a lot of trouble. People come to their door and want to sell them a happy life. 229 00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:29,720 They want to go to the hospital and want to show them a happy life. That's all fine. But 230 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:41,160 what I have said to other groups, I'm going to say to you, find and build your own group. 231 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:51,960 It's either in the family or out of the family, but somehow or other, like the one, 232 00:29:51,960 --> 00:30:02,040 one day some years ago, if all my sisters were here, they would tell me, all I know is that I 233 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:14,840 had a program up and I got this far. And the people I said, build your own happiness group. 234 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:20,600 That's what we're supposed to be. That's what little parishes are supposed to be. 235 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:29,480 Little happiness groups, for heaven's sakes. So I said, get one. And when I hung up, I did it myself. 236 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:38,600 I went on, I knew there were a group of people on. I said, you should all be doing something 237 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:44,760 together now after we've done this. And then I said something like this, I'll tell you what, 238 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:51,000 come back next Wednesday, we'll have something for you. That's when Mary Lou and I created 239 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:57,560 monasteries of the heart to which 30,000 people still now connect. 240 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:06,360 It's fantastic. You're calling us to form little communities of peace and justice and joy and to 241 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,360 find happiness with one another in living the Beatitudes. 242 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:20,440 Yeah. And even like I don't always push the hard stuff. I don't always say, we've lost so many of 243 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:32,280 this, ignored that, refused to do this. I try to show where the light is shining between the trees. 244 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:40,360 And I make sure my little five ounce parrot is with me because she doesn't like to be left alone. 245 00:31:40,360 --> 00:31:50,120 And people are crying to her when we come. They'd all love to do a hugging. And she's not so sure. 246 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:55,800 She's a little scared. If her mom's there, it's okay. But she's not going to do too much of it. 247 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:04,440 So we have fun over that kind of stuff. And then I know we have the energy left then to know that 248 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:13,400 in that joy, go into our site, go into the monasteries of the heart, you'll see all of the 249 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:23,240 activity that's going on. And who's doing it? They are. They are. Mary Lou and I and our sisters 250 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:36,120 put up the staging. And all of those people, they write to us, they call to us. They have found a 251 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:43,880 home and we love them to death. But you can't love 30,000 people one at a time. They are in, 252 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:55,000 they are forming their own groups. We've regenerated our obelisks, very mature religious 253 00:32:55,000 --> 00:33:01,640 people who want to be closer to the monastery, closer to the sisters, closer to the liturgy, 254 00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:09,000 closer to the works. And they come and they're happy. They have a good time. Now, our people 255 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:22,520 are igniting a fire around us, some of them sure. Sure. They don't understand it or they don't like 256 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:31,880 it. There are a lot of, I think, unhappy conservatives who want to destroy all this, 257 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:38,920 but you're not going to destroy that kind of joy. So you have to be open to it, but you have to be 258 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:45,240 part of it. You make your own little group. That's great, June. And you connect to all the other 259 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:53,240 groups. That's great. And you get somebody like me and you to connect to them and they will go 260 00:33:54,360 --> 00:34:03,800 a mighty mountain very fast. We were shocked. So... We were absolutely shocked. I can't call it 261 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:12,680 a plan. It was just that we had some nice people on the line and they wanted to know more. So heck, 262 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:20,040 why don't we? That's great. So friends who are listening, Sister Joan is talking about her 263 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:26,680 project Monasteries of the Heart. It's a great website. And I've known Joan for 40 years and 264 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:33,000 she's talking about our mutual great friend, Mary Lou Kownacki, who did great work. And I've seen 265 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:40,360 a lot of this. I was going to ask you, Joan, now I don't know how else to put it. Like, I think 266 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:46,600 living the Beatitudes, of course, living the whole gospel, the point was... 267 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:49,080 Well, it's going to get you through the whole gospel. 268 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:55,480 Yeah, yeah. Jesus lives them out and shows how to do it. But theoretically, you were talking about 269 00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:02,920 the new church. This is so silly to even say it. Shouldn't we be living in a church of the Beatitudes? 270 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,960 The church should reflect the Beatitudes. But you were saying maybe something even better, 271 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:14,840 which is, you know, like Latin America-based Christian communities, a Beatitude movement, 272 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,760 small groups of Beatitudes. And that's what Monasteries of the Heart and Pax Christi and 273 00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:25,160 so many lovely groups around the country. But we're going to need that as the world gets worse. 274 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:32,600 Oh, yeah. Sure. To have small groups to keep our faith, hope, and joy alive and the strength to 275 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:39,880 live out the Beatitudes. Right? Is that what you're saying? But together we could reform the church 276 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:47,240 or disarm the church into more Beatitudes. Of course. It's getting reformed whether they 277 00:35:47,240 --> 00:35:54,920 want it reformed or not. And one of these days, they're going to wake up and write a new letter 278 00:35:54,920 --> 00:36:01,880 that says, this is what we want. And the letters will come back by the millions. We did that 45 279 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:10,200 years ago. That's great. Joan, do you have any last thoughts or suggestions to people about 280 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:15,160 following Jesus and living the Beatitudes as we wrap up our sessions together? 281 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:26,360 No, I want you to do that piece because this is your stage and they must know that. 282 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:34,520 So they have to know it. They have to know it because they connected and they wanted to connect 283 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:42,360 with you and what you're doing. So no, I did a lot today and I hope that it's been all right 284 00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:46,440 for you and with you, but I could only do what I do. 285 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:52,520 It's terrific. I really thank you, Joan, for being with me and sharing all of this about the 286 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,120 Beatitudes. And I hope everyone will take it to heart. 287 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:04,200 Yeah, I told you. I was really excited that we were going to… I wasn't putting it on. I meant it. 288 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:11,560 So, once again, thank you so much, Sister Joan Chittister, my friend, for speaking with me today 289 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:17,720 and the other episodes on Jesus and the Beatitudes. And I want to thank everyone for listening to this 290 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:23,240 podcast, the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. We're so blessed to spend time with 291 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:29,800 Joan Chittister on the Beatitudes. You can hear many more podcasts and find other upcoming Zoom 292 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:39,240 programs at BeatitudesCenter.org. You can check out Joan at jonechittister.org and Monasteriesoftheheart.org. 293 00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:49,240 And I hope you will join us in the future. And let me just end by saying may the God of peace 294 00:37:49,240 --> 00:37:55,160 bless everyone. Keep on following the Nonviolent Jesus and living out the Beatitudes, 295 00:37:55,160 --> 00:38:10,040 and I'll see you all next time. Thanks so much.