1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:19,960 Welcome to the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. I'm John, Father John Deere, and today I'm speaking 2 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:27,360 with my guest, my friend, civil rights leader and activist Dr. Bernard Lafayette. This podcast 3 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:35,400 is a project of BeatitudesCenter.org, where you can find many other podcasts and Zoom programs 4 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:42,440 on the nonviolence of Jesus and practicing nonviolence and working for a more just, 5 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:48,280 more nonviolent world. I'd like to begin with a little prayer, so I just invite everyone to 6 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:55,800 take a deep breath and relax and enter into the presence of the God of peace who loves you 7 00:00:55,800 --> 00:01:04,520 infinitely. And let's welcome the nonviolent Jesus with us and ask for the grace to follow 8 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:12,840 the nonviolent Jesus ever more faithfully and do God's will. God of peace, thank you for all the 9 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:18,720 blessings of life and love and peace that you give us. Be with us now as we reflect on the life 10 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:25,280 of teaching and teachings of the nonviolent Jesus that we might follow him more faithfully. And as 11 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:32,280 we reflect on Dr. King for his 100th birthday, so that we might do our part to help end racism 12 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:38,960 and war, poverty and violence, executions, nuclear weapons, and environmental destruction, 13 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:45,080 and welcome your reign of universal love, universal compassion, and universal peace. 14 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:53,500 In Jesus' name, amen. I'm delighted to welcome today my friend and our civil rights leader, 15 00:01:53,500 --> 00:01:59,600 Dr. Bernard Lafayette, who's one of the heroes of the civil rights movement, and was also Dr. King's 16 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:06,480 assistant. Bernard's an activist and organizer who played a leading role in the Selma voting rights 17 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:12,360 movement, but goes back to the Nashville student movement with our friends, Reverend Jim Lawson, 18 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:18,160 and one of his best friends, Congressman John Lewis, who's one of the freedom writers and worked 19 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:23,760 closely with the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and the Southern Christian Leadership 20 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:30,440 Conference. An ordained Baptist minister, Bernard Lafayette, later founded the Center for Peace and 21 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:36,360 Nonviolent Studies at the University of Rhode Island, which offers a wonderful summer institute 22 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:43,160 each year on Kingian nonviolence, which I highly recommend. He's held thousands of workshops and 23 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:50,040 given thousands of talks on Dr. King and Kingian nonviolence around the world, especially in Africa. 24 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:56,240 Bernard Lafayette, welcome to the Nonviolent Jesus podcast. You're very welcome here. 25 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:56,680 Thank you. 26 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:05,880 Hey, it's Dr. King's 100th birthday. Tell us your thoughts on this occasion, and I'd love to ask you, 27 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,680 what was it like when you first met him way back when? 28 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:20,000 Well, I met Martin Luther King for the first time in Nashville. We had our Nashville movement, 29 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:26,320 and we called it a central committee, and it was made up of student representatives from the 30 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:32,280 different colleges and universities there in Nashville, and we invited Martin Luther King 31 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:41,680 to come and speak at Fisk University. So that was the first time I actually met him, and it was really great. 32 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:58,520 And Marion Barry was there, and like John Lewis, Diane Nash, and many others who were from different 33 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:08,760 colleges and universities, both black and white, there in Nashville. So I had been keeping up with him, 34 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:23,080 of course, because of his leadership ability, and he was such a dynamic person. And in addition to speaking, 35 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:31,480 he led marches and demonstrations and that kind of thing. And such an emphasis on nonviolence, 36 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:40,680 and I felt very comfortable with that, because that's what our goal was, to have a more peaceful 37 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:52,440 and nonviolent communities, and that meant we have a more peaceful country, and that's 38 00:04:52,440 --> 00:05:04,040 where we want to live in. And so I was very excited about him, and we embraced what he taught there for us. 39 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:10,440 And you work with him so closely over the years in the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, 40 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:18,600 and then in SNCC, and then in Selma. What memories of Dr. King do you have in those years? 41 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,160 I know that you've been asked that a million times, and that's almost silly to say, but 42 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:33,160 it's so helpful to hear your stories, Bernard. What was he like during all those days? 43 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:51,720 Well, Dr. King was really unusual. He was not an ordinary person, and I was very much impressed 44 00:05:51,720 --> 00:06:05,000 with him, and felt that he was the ideal person as a leader, and people were following him. 45 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,880 It was absolutely incredible. 46 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,720 What was so unusual about him? Why was he not ordinary? 47 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:22,840 Well, it's hard for people to believe this, but Martin Luther King was head of SLC, of course, 48 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:35,560 and he did not chair his own staff meetings. All these people who were on his staff, 49 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:44,920 he didn't sit at the head of the table or whatever. He sat on a side seat and listened to what people 50 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:55,800 had to say, and he simply asked questions. I learned that from him, rather than making 51 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:02,360 statements in your staff meeting and telling people what to do. He simply asked questions, 52 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:10,600 because he relied upon the people who were on his staff, and that kind of thing. 53 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:25,080 I was a little surprised, because I was working in Chicago, and Martin Luther King had sent for me 54 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:39,560 to come and to be on his staff there in Atlanta. I didn't know what in the world to do. I studied 55 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:49,800 under Jim Lawson, and he was excellent. I really admired Jim Lawson and the way he taught 56 00:07:49,800 --> 00:08:01,960 and the way he shared with others. So Martin Luther King invited me to be on his staff, 57 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:13,080 and I said, well, I need to know what he expected me to do. So I was working with the Quakers, 58 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:21,720 the American Friends Service Committee in Chicago, and we were doing an open housing movement, 59 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:29,800 and in the slums movement, stuff like that. In fact, I recruited Jesse Jackson 60 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:40,840 on the staff, and he worked with us there. So I did not hear anything from Martin Luther King, 61 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:49,480 and so he called me directly and said, when are you coming to Atlanta? 62 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:50,360 That's great. 63 00:08:50,360 --> 00:09:01,320 So I said, well, I was waiting to get the invitation and the job description, 64 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:08,840 because he just simply wanted me to come to Atlanta and be on the staff. So 65 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:18,200 he said, Andy, I heard him in the background, he was on the telephone in Atlanta, and I was in 66 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:25,560 Chicago. He said, did you send that letter to Lafayette? Martin Luther King, that's why he 67 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:34,440 called me Lafayette, my last name, because he had Bernard Lee as his staff person. So he called him 68 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:45,000 Bernard, okay, and called me Lafayette. So you never heard him say, you know, never call me Bernard. 69 00:09:45,560 --> 00:10:02,440 So he said, did you write that job description for Lafayette? And Andrew Young says, 70 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:07,480 I think I wrote the letter, but I haven't sent it, you know, whatever. So Martin Luther King was a 71 00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:12,920 little impatient. So he says, why don't you just come on down to Atlanta and write your own job 72 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:26,200 description. So, wow, write my own job description. So, and by the way, the service committee in the 73 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:40,440 Quakers, they had a really established organization. In fact, they, you know, had a pretty nice salary. 74 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:45,320 Yeah. So you're not going to have any of that with Dr. King, in other words. 75 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,320 No, they hadn't made it. It's kind of awful like that. 76 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:53,400 But you said yes, and you moved there. Do you remember what year we're talking about? 77 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,920 Oh, boy. Let's see what year that was. 78 00:10:56,920 --> 00:11:00,920 After Selma or before Selma, 65? 79 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:16,920 Yeah, it was in, I think it was back in like 65, yeah, something like that. Yeah. But what happened is that 80 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:27,640 I ended up going to Selma because we had already gone on the freedom rides and that kind of thing, 81 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:38,280 et cetera. And John Lewis, for example, started working with the scope or something like that, 82 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:49,000 that scope. But it was an organization in Atlanta, and it was working on voter registration. Now, 83 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:58,440 direct action, as opposed to voter registration, was two separate things at that time. And it was 84 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:09,160 a little more conservative voter registration, because you're just getting people out to register 85 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:18,760 to vote. But see, when you're trained in nonviolence and direct action, even voter registration 86 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:26,760 becomes a nonviolent direct action approach, making that kind of thing. 87 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:38,840 Mm-hmm. Making that kind of thing happen. So I decided that I was going to work on voter registration. 88 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:52,040 So I went down to talk to James Foreman, because he was, you know, it was SNCC, 89 00:12:52,040 --> 00:13:00,760 the Student Nonviolent Courting Committee, and I wanted to get an assignment to one of the voter 90 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:10,760 registration projects. Charles Sherrod was in Albany, Georgia, and Bob Moses was in Mississippi. 91 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:23,080 And so they didn't have anybody in Alabama. So I told James Foreman, and by the way, some people 92 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:32,680 don't know this, I helped to recruit Foreman to be head of SNCC, because he was a professor, 93 00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:43,240 okay? And so he related to students. And we needed somebody who was mature and someone who was, 94 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:53,800 you know, also felt comfortable with students, but not try to run them and be in charge of them, 95 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:58,920 that kind of thing, but to be supportive of them and to help them. That's the kind of person he was. 96 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:04,280 So he was the, you know, executive director of SNCC. 97 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:07,080 So you went to Selma then, huh? That's what brought you… 98 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:07,640 Uh-huh. 99 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,080 That led you to Selma? 100 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:22,280 Yeah. What happened is that I went to get an assignment in Atlanta, and James Foreman told me 101 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:30,280 there were no more assignments, no more places, because they had already assigned people to 102 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:38,680 different states and everything, directors. And I looked on the blackboard, the wall there in the 103 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:48,680 office, and I said, wait a minute, you got an X here through Alabama. He said, yeah, we already 104 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:57,720 sent two different groups there. And they came back and said that, you know, you can't accomplish 105 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:08,200 anything there because the blacks are too scared and the whites are too mean. And there were two 106 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:15,560 different groups they had sent already, about four people in each of the groups. They came back and 107 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:27,480 they agreed that nothing could happen in Selma or Alabama. And I said to myself quietly, what do you 108 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:35,720 mean? Alabama? You had Montgomery? I mean, that's where, you know, you had the local boycott, 109 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:41,400 and then you already had Birmingham. But then you tell me that you can't accomplish anything in 110 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:53,640 Alabama? That doesn't make sense to me. So they didn't expect anything. And so he said, well, if 111 00:15:53,640 --> 00:16:01,480 you want to go take a look at it, you know, I said, take a look at it. No, I don't want to take a look 112 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:09,000 at it. I'll take it. You know? So I felt real comfortable because I was going to be the one 113 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:14,360 real comfortable because I was going to make something happen where nothing was expected to 114 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:25,400 happen. So I, you know, I've been involved in the Birmingham movement a little bit, you know, 115 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:32,120 and that kind of thing. And I felt comfortable as I finished the freedom rights and all that kind of 116 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:43,480 thing. And we'd go on through, you know, Alabama. And so I said, okay. So I felt really comfortable 117 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:51,160 because here nothing was expected to happen. So my approach was academic. 118 00:16:52,840 --> 00:17:00,600 And I felt comfortable because I had no pressure on me so I could take my time and nobody expected 119 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:06,840 anything to happen. And we have some students around, not students, but some people around now 120 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:18,520 who own those original teams that was assigned to Alabama. And they're the ones who came back and 121 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:25,000 said nothing could happen there. And I don't call their names because, you know, it isn't necessary. 122 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:33,720 But I took it. And so the first thing I did was to say, I'm going to do some research 123 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:42,600 so I can understand why that attitude was about the people in South Alabama. 124 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:54,520 So that's my approach to even studying nonviolence. It's an academic thing as well 125 00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:03,400 that is studying the history and all the things that becomes a mystery. That's the thing that you 126 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:14,280 approach. So it's a matter of having a deep appreciation for the history so it won't be a 127 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:25,320 mystery. And so what I did was start right there in Atlanta and start studying Alabama. That's where 128 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:34,440 the first research started in Atlanta. And I could not find a lot of information about the segregation 129 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:45,000 and all that kind of stuff in Alabama. But I found there was a publication that the, I think it was 130 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:53,880 the White Citizen Council had a monthly publication about that. So I wanted to, I went to the 131 00:18:53,880 --> 00:19:02,840 library and I could not go to any of the White libraries there. So they didn't have very much 132 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:11,720 information on the White Citizen Council and White people and that kind of thing in the libraries in 133 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:19,960 Atlanta. So there was only one place I found that where I could go and study and they had a monthly 134 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:28,920 publication on the White Citizen Council. And you know what that was? Where? That was in 135 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:46,120 what was it? Tuskegee. Tuskegee Institute. That's what it was called, Tuskegee Institute. That's 136 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:57,160 what it was called now. The library. So I went to the library there and I shouldn't say there, here. 137 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:04,840 I'm in Alabama now. That's where you live now in Tuskegee. Yeah. Tuskegee, right there, right around 138 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:10,920 the corner. Let me ask you, because we don't have too much time, but so you were there throughout 139 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:17,320 the whole Selma movement and the bridge crossing because I thought, where were you? 140 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:24,520 Yes. So what do you want people to know about Selma and all that happened? The first bridge 141 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:30,600 crossing the police charged and John Lewis and so many were hurt. And the second one, Dr. King came 142 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:35,320 in and then stopped the march. And the third, he called people to come from all over the country, 143 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:42,680 especially church leaders. And there was this massive march from Selma to Montgomery for voting 144 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:48,920 rights. What do you want people to know about the power of nonviolence from the whole Selma campaign, 145 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:54,280 which you can, by the way, folks, see the movie Selma if you haven't. But what do you want people 146 00:20:54,280 --> 00:21:14,920 to know about that? Well, number one, you don't label people and then behave towards them based on 147 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:31,640 what your perception is of them. Like for example, when I went in, I felt that if Selma was going to 148 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:39,400 change, the people in Selma had to make the decision that they were going to change, not me. 149 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:49,000 So I had to get them motivated and organized to do their own recruiting and their own 150 00:21:50,920 --> 00:22:01,480 organizing and their own training. So Mrs. Boynton, Amelia Boynton, she was so, she was very much 151 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:09,320 committed to the voter registration movement and stuff like that. So I set up my office in her office. 152 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:21,560 Okay. And then JL Chestnut's office was in that office. So all three of us had the same office. 153 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:34,920 And the office was located across the street from the county jail. Okay. Yeah. And next door to our 154 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:53,320 office was the funeral home. Okay. All right. There's a jail, there's a funeral home, and around 155 00:22:53,320 --> 00:23:01,400 the corner was a bumper shop with black barbers in the back, in the shop. And they only cut white hair. 156 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:08,360 I went to the barbershop, you know, black barbershop, sat down, and nobody else was in there but the 157 00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:15,720 barbers, and they were cleaning their instruments and everything, ignored me. So I was, what was 158 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:22,280 going on here? And I was thinking maybe because they knew I was involved in the movement. No, 159 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:34,760 they didn't cut black hair, only white hair. So I thought that was pretty interesting. So there 160 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:40,040 were some interesting things happen. Like one interesting thing I want to point out is that 161 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:46,200 one of the white men came to me, he was from the rural areas there in Dallas County, 162 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:57,720 and he said, I understand that you help black folks get ready to devote. And of course I did, 163 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:07,400 and I said yes. He said, well, I got a bunch of them who work for me, and he was one of those 164 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:17,480 tenant farmers. And he said, they need some help in getting registered to vote. I was shocked. 165 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:17,980 Wow. 166 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:26,440 And then we kept talking. I told him yes, well, you know, I'd be happy to help, you know, 167 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:32,920 black folks get registered to vote. And we had our voting thing on the top floor of the 168 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:44,520 funeral home on the corner of my office in Selma. And we had people there teaching folks how to fill 169 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:53,960 out the forms, because it was about 30 questions they had to answer. Okay. So I helped him, and I 170 00:24:53,960 --> 00:25:00,200 talked to the black folks who I was helping, and they said, yeah, he has a son who's getting, 171 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:08,120 the white man, had a son who was getting ready to graduate from college, and he wanted to come back 172 00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:17,880 home to Dallas County, and he wanted to run for political office. So they wanted to get all these 173 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:28,440 black folks who were tenant farmers registered to vote. That was his motive. Okay. No problem. 174 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:39,320 We'd be glad to get him registered to vote, all these black folks. So, and you have to have a 175 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:49,400 person to sign your voter registration test when you take it. And this white man signed for everybody. 176 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:55,480 Wow, that's a rare story. I urge people to watch the movie Selma if they haven't to see 177 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:59,960 all what Bernard is talking about. We don't have too much time, and there's so much to 178 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:07,480 discuss Bernard, and I urge people to watch the movie. I think it's a great movie. I think it's 179 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:13,560 Bernard, and I urge people to read Bernard's memoir and the other civil rights books. 180 00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:19,800 Let me jump ahead a little bit to that famous moment in Memphis where Dr. King said one of 181 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,880 his last words to you. I've never, I don't think ever had the chance to ask you about it, and I 182 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:32,120 would like you to tell us the story about it and what it means. So now we jump ahead to 1968. 183 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:39,080 You're Martin King's assistant. You're on the staff. He's planning the Poor People's Campaign. 184 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:44,520 He's come out against the Vietnam War. Jim Lawson says we got to go to Memphis to help with the 185 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:55,880 garbage strikers and workers there on strike. And it's April 4th, 1968, that Thursday, 186 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:03,400 and he's killed that night. And as you're leaving to go to DC to fly off to work on the Poor People's 187 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:09,320 Campaign, which is just two months away, Dr. King turns to you and says, here's the next thing we 188 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:15,400 got to do. Tell us that story Bernard and what it means for you and how we can live out Dr. King's 189 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:16,360 last vision. 190 00:27:16,360 --> 00:27:26,840 Well, Martin Luther King was always very responsive when it came to poor people. 191 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:38,120 I would be remiss if I didn't tell you because it has an impact on me. And that was when in Atlanta, 192 00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:46,840 Georgia, Martin Luther King's house was not too far, like a walking distance to the office where 193 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:55,160 we had our SCLC office. So he would walk rather than drive to the office only two or three blocks. 194 00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:03,720 And the poor people used to line up. They used to line up because Martin Luther King 195 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:10,280 would pass out a dollar bills to them. So he always had a pocket full of dollar bills, 196 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:18,200 one dollar bills. And as he walked to the office, okay, on his way to work, he would pass out the 197 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:19,160 one dollar bills. 198 00:28:19,160 --> 00:28:20,680 I never knew that about him. 199 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:27,720 I know a lot of people didn't know that. And that's what caused me to do this. I can't ignore 200 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:33,560 people when they're begging for money. And I was always very, very, very, very, very, very 201 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:40,520 happy. Yeah, even they're begging on television, it's a big problem for me. Okay. But anyway, 202 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:47,400 that was one of the characteristics of Martin Luther King, even though, you know, everything 203 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:54,760 else. Well, he was called to Memphis, as you say, by Jim Lawson and some of the other garbage 204 00:28:54,760 --> 00:29:02,280 workers and leaders, because they were on strike. And one of the people that got injured, that's 205 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:11,720 what happened. Okay. Yeah. And so it was going to affect the garbage workers, because they 206 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:19,640 couldn't continue to work, but they wanted to inspire them. So we left our meeting, we were in 207 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:29,080 a staff meeting in Atlanta, at the office when we got the call. Okay. So we said, okay. So Martin 208 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:41,320 Luther King and Bernard Lee went up there. And when they were having a march, some gang leaders, 209 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:46,920 black gang leaders, they got downtown, and they started breaking out windows and, you know, 210 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:52,920 getting a violent situation. And Martin Luther King didn't want that to be the image that was left. 211 00:29:52,920 --> 00:30:01,720 So he sent for us. And all of us went on a plane, except Bennett. Bennett didn't fly. He always 212 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:13,720 drove. Okay. That was one of our staff people. But Darcy Cotton and Bernard Lee was with Martin 213 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:24,040 Luther King when he went up there to Memphis. And all of us went up and did the march with Martin 214 00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:32,120 Luther King, because the other one was kind of violent. But he spoke at the church that night, 215 00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:37,320 and he was so excited. He got people riled up and everything, et cetera. I was there with him. 216 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:43,160 And Martin Luther King had already decided that he was going to have a Poor People's Campaign. 217 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:43,640 Right. 218 00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:50,760 And he wanted, so he wanted me to go ahead and do the press release of the Poor People's Campaign. 219 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:55,320 So at night, I was working on press release. That's why I didn't go to the mass meeting 220 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:56,680 when Martin Luther King spoke. 221 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,840 Oh, you didn't hear him say, I've been to the mountaintop. You probably heard that before. 222 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:02,680 No. Yeah, I heard it before. 223 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:03,240 Yeah. 224 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:03,720 Yes. 225 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:09,080 So you're there in the hotel working on the press release, and the next day is April 4th. 226 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:16,680 Yes. And he couldn't read it that night because he was so excited when he came back 227 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:26,920 from the speech, you know. And so I got up the next morning, and I wanted to read the press 228 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:36,120 statement to Martin Luther King. Okay. And so I read the, because he was going to go to, 229 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,960 you know, to Washington, DC, so we could have a press conference, a press statement. Okay. 230 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:56,840 Yeah. So anyway, Martin Luther King, prior to that, had told people that I was going to be the, 231 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:09,640 you know, the staff person in charge of the campaign. And that's why, picture on the book, 232 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:16,040 on my book, that's why I'm looking so confused. Just, I was like, why would he make me the, 233 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:24,440 you know, but that's what he did. I never did get a chance to talk to him, and that's why he 234 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:35,480 chose me among all of the other people. They were older than I was, okay. And I was older than Jesse, 235 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:41,240 I was older than Jesse, but the rest of them, darned the cotton. So anyway. 236 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,680 So yeah, he says to you. 237 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:53,720 Yeah. So he says to me, after I read the statement, the press statement, he said, yeah, 238 00:32:53,720 --> 00:33:05,320 he said, you go ahead and get started, and I'll do that. So I was not there. I was on my way to 239 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:13,640 the airport, headed on down to get things ready for the campaign, set up the office we were going 240 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:23,960 to have there at 1410U. And I called, well, DeFontre was supposed to pick me up at the airport, 241 00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:37,960 okay, in DC, but nobody was there. So I called the office to find out, and they said that Martin 242 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:45,160 Luther King had been shot. Well, I didn't think that he was fatal. So I called another 243 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:55,080 radio station at the airport that had these stations, radio stations, and you could get two 244 00:33:55,080 --> 00:34:01,080 radio stations at the same time, because he had a lot of telephone booths around a circle in the 245 00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:13,880 airport in DC. So I called another one, and they read the press release on the phone. And I really 246 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:24,280 didn't think that he was going to be fatal, because he'd been stabbed in Washington, 247 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:25,480 where was it, Washington, DC. 248 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:27,240 In Harlem, in Harlem in 1960. 249 00:34:27,240 --> 00:34:30,840 Harlem, yeah. Yeah, in the park. Yeah, he'd been... 250 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:36,840 Yeah, that's so tragic. Hey, but Bernard, just before you left there, that's when he turned to 251 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:44,040 you and said, make a note for the next movement where we're going to have to institutionalize and 252 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,000 internationalize nonviolence. You remember that? 253 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:48,600 Yes, I do. 254 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,920 That's an incredible thing he said to you. 255 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,040 Yes. 256 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:57,400 And one of his last words is like, oh, and by the way, when we get justice for all the poor 257 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:03,160 of the United States, and then we're going to march across the street and shut down the Pentagon 258 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:08,600 and end the Vietnam War, then Bernard, remind me, we're going to take nonviolence to the whole 259 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:13,960 world, and we're going to institutionalize it so it's the norm. How are we going to do that, Bernard? 260 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:16,360 Yes. 261 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:24,120 That's like a last vision of Dr. King. No one talks about that. 262 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:29,240 We've forgotten so much about his passion and vision of nonviolence. 263 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:31,480 But you know what? 264 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,480 What? 265 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:41,320 I'm glad that you called me because I'm going to tell you our next major move 266 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:50,200 to bring harmony and unity and peace and nonviolence to the world. 267 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:50,600 Tell me. 268 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,720 What we're going to do is this. We're going to do it through music. 269 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:56,760 Okay. 270 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:05,400 And we're going to start with the children, and they're going to learn like, we shall overcome 271 00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:18,440 in different languages. Like, for example, they're going to learn, we shall overcome in Spanish. 272 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,600 And then they're going to learn in Chinese. 273 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:26,200 Then they're going to learn in different African languages. 274 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:33,480 And that's what the young people are going to do in their schools and in their churches and in 275 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:34,680 other places. 276 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:35,480 That's great. 277 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:35,960 Okay. 278 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:41,560 That's great. So, we have to end, Bernard. We have to end. And when folks who are listening, 279 00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:49,400 Bernard Lafayette has spent his whole life giving thousands of workshops and talks on 280 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,640 Kingian nonviolence, especially in Africa. He knows what he's talking about. 281 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:59,400 For the last question, because we do have to go, what would be one or two things you want people 282 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,040 to know about Dr. King's way of nonviolence? 283 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:17,560 Well, the first thing I would want them to know about Martin Luther King is that you never give 284 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:21,880 up and you never give in. 285 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:27,800 That's great. That's great, Bernard. That's very helpful. Tell me more. 286 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:40,280 And when you look at the sky, okay, that's why you look at it from the mountaintop. 287 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:49,640 That's what you're doing. You're looking at a larger vision of what the world could be. 288 00:37:51,160 --> 00:37:58,600 So, you don't just stop with what you see today, but when you go to the mountaintop, you can see, 289 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,440 okay, the promised land. 290 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:05,640 And that's what we're talking about. 291 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:13,880 We're having a larger vision of what we can see and what we are working towards, 292 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:25,000 working towards a world that will be able to be one world of people. 293 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,800 That's a great note to end on and a great story, Bernard. And 294 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:36,360 with you and Martin Luther King, you made nonviolence contagious, and that's our hope. 295 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:41,320 And here you are, you're marking the 100th birthday of Martin Luther King, and 296 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:47,080 you're reminding us and urging us all not to give up and not to give in, 297 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:52,840 but to take the big view from the mountaintop and become universal people of universal love. 298 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,640 I really thank you for that. 299 00:38:55,640 --> 00:39:00,200 I'm sorry we don't have hours to hear all your great stories. 300 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:00,840 Thank you. 301 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,920 And thank you, friends, for listening to the Nonviolent Jesus Podcast. 302 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:11,640 You can hear more podcasts and find other upcoming Zoom programs at BeatitudesCenter.org. 303 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:16,920 And there you can offer any comments and feedback and make a donation to support this free work. 304 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:23,320 And if you're interested in helping us, please do so by subscribing to our YouTube channel. 305 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,640 Join me next week when my guest will be my friend's sister, Helen Brejohn, 306 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,440 author of Dead Man Walking. May the God of Peace bless everyone. 307 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:54,040 Keep on following the Nonviolent Jesus. See you next time.