I did not only serve them soup, I also served
them like kind of a psychological intervention
from time to time. Hi, everyone, and welcome
back to For the Curious and Confused, a podcast
for people who want to understand different perspectives
of the world to the people who inhabit it. I'm
your host, Dominic Taggart, and today I'm joined
by Danny Gottschalk. danny is an interior designer
and the founder of tinseltown a project development
and interior design firm based in camp bays south
africa danny is known for her bold immersive
interiors and her landmark project in camp bays
which recreates 1960s palm springs glamour with
striking hues and retro hollywood flair With
a unique background spanning marketing and psychology,
her design spaces invite deep engagement and
foster self -expression worldwide. I'm not very
familiar with the ideas relating to interior
design, so Dani, thank you for being here today
to share your expertise. Yeah, great. I'm looking
so forward to that interview. Indeed. So to start
us off, could you give us first a two -minute
introduction into who Dani is and what motivates
her? Exactly. That's always like a good question.
We have like a German, like a poet and he's like,
he wrote a book saying like, who am I and if
how many? So that's always like, okay, am I what
I'm doing? So, I mean, I'm an interior designer,
but I'm also a psychotherapist. I'm a bar owner.
Overall, I would say I'm a free spirit. Also,
that's kind of a little bit overused term, but
I'm basically a free spirit in everything I'm
doing. And I'm like a true searcher. So I'm looking
for true self -expression wherever, if I'm like
decorating a bar, a home, if I'm writing an article
or if I'm talking to people, trying to help them
in their psychological, their soul journey. I
just try to seek truth and find the real, authentic
self -expression. That's very important nowadays.
I feel like there's a lot of conforming to some
standards or another. So I really resonate with
that. So if you were to divide your life into
different chapters, what are some of the most
important ones that we should know about in order
to understand you better? Well, I mean, of course,
there's like childhood, which I do not have a
lot of memory of. And I guess like childhood
ended with eight or nine when my mom introduced
me to basically everything a child should never
hear about their parents' life. So like intimate
details and whatsoever. And I think that was
a start of like problems I had like psychologically
and like growing up and being, I want to say
confused, but yeah it just like changed everything
you get into puberty you have too much information
about your parents your mom is always like downloading
her problems onto you you become the caregiver
you're being parentified you're becoming your
mom's mother and all of that so that led to like
okay I'm not really happy I must do something
against it I would say all that time till when
I started be receiving psychotherapy was 25 and
then becoming a psychotherapist myself 10 years
later that can be divided in like the 10 years
between 25 and 35 is yeah finding myself going
all ways uh psychotherapy has to offer like trying
to do as much as i can getting all the help that
i can getting supportive of all on all levels
like spiritual psychological like everything
that was out there. And in the meantime of all
that process, opening my first restaurant, three
years later, opening my first bar. And then when
I saw the process of becoming myself is final,
becoming a psychotherapist as well with 37 or
something. But it's still going on. I'm still
going to therapy and I'm still giving therapy.
So it's an ongoing process. So you start the
journey with thinking, oh, hopefully that's soon
over. But then it becomes your thing and your
mission and your life. quite normal because you
keep on brushing your teeth every morning until
you fall into the grave and you should just like
take care of yourself also every day so yeah
and then ever since that I would say since 40
another process like started of like buying houses
and redecorating them like re -renovating them
and selling them and now finally arriving in
my dream destination in Cape Town and buying
and creating my masterpiece, which is called
The Beholder. And from here, it's all, it's basically,
I still have my bar and everything. And I'm also
still being a psychotherapist, but I would consider
I'm now like an interior designer full time.
That's quite a journey. Wow. For the period you
mentioned from about 25 to 35, when you had started
doing psychotherapy, what kind of... experiences
or things were you doing in that 10 -year period
to as you said kind of discover yourself and
tap into your your form of self -expression i
basically did every kind of therapy out there
i started like very classically with um like
speaking therapy for 30 hours and then of course
felt a little bit better but not so much and
then i did like a in english also i'm like a
german native speaker but i had a sense of that
i'm not staying in germany forever so i did in
english like a young and dream psychoanalysis
for 10 for seven full years but in between i
did everything from reiki to freezing techniques
to to all kind of uh even like i'm also talking
to mediums i believe basically in everything
i Don't believe that everyone has the gift. There's
a lot of like smooth talkers out there, but there
are people with gifts. And I received many blessings.
But the most powerful thing I found was family
constellation, which really like basically changed
my life in one day. Like seven years of Freudian
psychoanalysis, nothing compared to an afternoon
family constellation. Unbelievable. So I decided
to become a family constellation therapist mainly.
Because that's, for me, the most powerful thing
for everyone. It has also a spiritual element
to it, but it's a real therapeutic setting. But
it's very hard to explain, though. That's why
very many people are like, oh, no, I'm not understanding
it. I'm not doing it. I'm not surrendering myself
to it. But if you surrender yourself to it, you
will be just blown away. And that really, really,
I must say, turned my life around. I did not
only do it once, I did it 500 times because I
wasn't active education in it. But it's not always
mind blowing. But when it is, then it is. And
I don't think any therapy can do for you what
this can do for you. I've never heard of that
before. Is it you say family constellation or
consultation? Yeah, it's not super popular. It's
in some regions more popular than other, but
it's rather that people say I never heard of
it. It's like a croup therapy thing where like
you're not going with your family, but the. people
who are in the group representing people from
your families. You basically sit next to the
therapist in a circle and he will ask you, what's
your topic? And if it's like addiction or drugs
in general or the relationship with your mom
or your dad or that you always end up in abusive
relationships or if you are sick, whatever it
is, your work environment, what's on your soul,
that's exactly what they... what is ask so like
um and then sorry i must if there's a storm coming
up i quickly must close the window okay so yeah
do what you gotta do yeah no problem no problem
yeah summertime is is uh when the stores come
and go sorry sorry for that super strange so
um So the people in that group, they don't know
nothing about you or your parents or your story.
So it's actually really like a quiet process.
But believe it or not, when you're standing there
representing your mom or whatever, for example,
which you probably not even know the name of,
you start to feel something, not like massive
stuff. But if you trust yourself and you're not
too embarrassed to show it, you will feel you
feel sadness or happiness or you feel drawn to
another person in the circle or. You will look
in certain directions and there are equivalents
in that therapy. For example, a mom will always
stand in front of the child. If the whole constellation
goes in a direction that the child isn't standing
in front of the mom, then you have been parentified.
That's a very clear and obvious basis. If someone
is looking to the ground, he's focused on someone
dead. So if someone wants to leave the room,
he's also drawn to... he has suicidal tendencies
and there's like an expression kind of for everything
but the way the the thing unfolds it's just absolutely
fascinating it it's about an hour and you just
have to watch it you don't have to do anything
you don't have to say anything and you can't
look away i mean you of course you can but then
you're not profiting and seeing that in front
of your eyes with people who have no clue and
who don't want to harm you don't want to educate
you about anything or That's just mind blowing.
And it's not always that strong. And sometimes
you go out and say, I don't know really if this
was for me. So, but most of the times it's amazing.
And on some occasions it's just unbelievable.
For me, it was twice unbelievable and really
like a center turnaround in my life. Oh, that
sounds very impactful. Yeah. I can imagine that
I'm hearing a lot of kind of, themes of like
there are these sort of repressed emotions kind
of within you that are hard to access and in
this setting it it gives you the space to let
those repressed emotions kind of be be known
and be experienced more freely which is exactly
exactly it's absolutely beautiful and a lot of
you are crying the people around crime and you
will see that a little bit of your story is like
everyone's story everyone sees themselves a little
bit in the other one and you're not going out
there and say like oh i have it pretty good the
other one is really up you know it's like it's
basically hey we what whatever we are suffering
from it's always the worst for us we can't like
focus on the poor children in in africa because
we're not related to them so our suffering is
always the biggest one for us even if it's compared
to other sufferings nothing but for us it will
always be the worst what we suffer from yeah
it's always hard to hold both of those the same
time of like acknowledging that your suffering
is real and valid while also not being the worst
suffering possible as well So leading into some
other stuff, how have your own personal strengths
and weaknesses influenced your path and where
you are now? So this is really, the words go
down here. This is so unusual for Germany, sorry.
I think my weaknesses, I could be much richer,
like in terms of money at this point, if I would
not have so much trust with the wrong people
and gave away some of my power just to, I don't
know, just to be nice or people pleaser or something
like that, or just not to be confronted with
the things I don't want to deal with. I mean,
if you're so young and you open your own restaurant.
And someone comes along and they're like, oh,
let me take care of your books and taxes. And
you might be happy, you know, it's like, especially
if it's kind of a father figure. But I found,
so basically there's always a price to pay. If
people want to help you, it's mostly not very
genuinely genuine. And in the end, you must really
take care of everything yourself. I mean, I'm
learned to not delay stuff. So if you have a
business and you must deal with it immediately,
it's not sitting on your head. It's not eating
up your energy. You just like, there's this thing
you hate the most. You do the first and it's
out of your, out of your sight, you know? So,
um, but I'm like a completely, so I'm very like
focused and I'm very clear. I don't have like,
black spots in me that i can't access so i think
that's my biggest strength that whatever comes
my way i don't have to shy away because there's
nothing in me which i'm afraid to face and i
think that that opened me the most doors that
i saw i can't go there because that's one of
my biggest fears beside me being very claustrophobic
which i do not have under control other than
that i will always say like No, I'm not afraid
to do that. I'm not afraid to face that. I'm
not afraid to hold the hand of a dying person,
even if I don't know it. So I'm not afraid to
look at the worst. I'm not afraid. So I can attend.
everything because i i can see it i'm not taking
it personal people always say like oh my god
i must be so depressing be a therapist and listen
to all the sad stories of the people i'm like
no because it's not my story and it's not that
i'm cold but i went through my own dark times
and i know how to handle it and i'm not taking
on the other person's pain i'm feeling for him
but i'm not like uh it doesn't remind me of the
anything that's hidden in myself so i think that's
uh that you can only do when you have been there
otherwise you will never be able i mean people
only meet you on the level that they met themselves
they will leave you and abandon you in your grief
if they don't want to be reminded on what they
hurting that's a very that's a very true one
yeah of people only being able capable of meeting
you where they've met themselves. You mentioned
the not being afraid part. Is that something
that you've always kind of innately had or have
you had to practice that in order to get better
or somewhere in the middle? I'm not really like
a courageous person. I would never like to bungee
jumping or all of that. So, I mean, in that terms,
I'm not courageous, but I'm courageous if it
comes to taking responsibility for everything
I do and everything. I'm also not afraid of money,
but that's obviously not. my topic in that world
also i'm not coming from like a rich family i'm
not afraid of money if you i'm not afraid i would
open like a hotel tomorrow in um in new york
and i wouldn't mind so i'm i have no relation
to the money because the money is also not what
keeps me going so it's coming in it's coming
getting out it's a substitute i'm also not controlling
my employees because i think well if you steal
from me you go to hell the money will come on
from from another side again you know so like
i think like what's meant for me can't be lost
if you have good intentions um nobody can really
steal from you nobody can create with by stealing
your energy it's just uh not possible i guess
you mentioned the the money not being the reason
you do it um so i think this is a good good transition
to the interior design um so what did you realize
or learn that interior design and uh even hospitality
also was important to you I think hospitality
was important to me because in my family, it
was always like, not because we were poor, we
weren't poor, but my mom always only cooked for
my dad, me and that on her. So I could never
have my friends staying over. My friends had
always to go home and my, in my friend's house,
I was always welcome to like stay for dinner
or whatever. And I found it just terrible. So
I think. I always wanted to, I always love to
cook for people. I always love to nourish people,
maybe because I was so undernourished, but I
think like. food is like an act of love for me
and I love feeding people. And I mean, I opened
a soup bar, which is in other parts of the world,
a soup kitchen is for the homeless. And so mine
was not for the homeless, but of course there
also came people in that couldn't afford. And
I did not only serve them soup, I also served
them like kind of a, like a psychological intervention
from time to time, where I was also thinking
like, no, it's getting too much now because you're
like the person you are. You're like someone,
I mean, I love to dig into other people's souls
and then also really listen to them and give
them advice. But sometimes it's too much. If
you sell soup to 500 people a day and like 10
of them pour their heart out to you, it's already
too much. It's like it's not worth the five euros
of soup. So I thought like, no, let's get a diploma
on it. So if it's getting too much for me, I
can charge for it. yeah and interior design is
like the step forward so first of all it was
a nurturing and then it was like the creating
was what it's there it's basically like it's
a reflection of the soul the outside and just
like being able to create it in my own way i
mean when you're like when you're depressed or
whatever or if you have psychological issues
You feel like you're like forced to live in the
basically in your children room where you grew
up like emotionally and whatsoever. And if you
see that you can create your whole life, really
yourself, you're grown up now. You don't have
to stay in that apartment of your parents emotionally
and internally and externally. So you can express
yourself in a way that's much more you and that
mirrors. you much more. And I think that's a
lot that like the mirroring isn't happening between
the child and the parents. So like, I love to
create spaces that mirror me and I mirror it
back to them. I feel like we're starting to get
into some good stuff now. So for people who aren't
as familiar with all of the interior design and
psychology of spaces, I'm hearing a lot about
having the mirroring of you and the space. So
what are some of the other important ideas that
really give that substance like the importance
of mirroring your spaces and being able to resonate
with what you see around you in the space you
exist in yeah i think it's very it's like it's
self -empowering to to to create your space yourself
of course you can also give your power to an
interior designer good for me and some people
probably really don't have it in them or they
have too much other stuff to do or but in general
i would say like it's lovely if people discover
what they really want, what they really like.
And of course, also in interior designer can
be there to suggest to them. And then they're
suddenly like, oh, I love that, but I could never
do that. And sometimes really like this, you
see like a hot dress on another woman and you
think I could never wear it, but probably you
could, you know? So sometimes it's really not
you, but sometimes it's you, but you're not bold
enough because you probably have. learn from
an early stage or one has told you you don't
have the best taste or that looks terrible or
whatsoever and then it's kind of a confidence
to know and to find out who you actually are
if it looks terrible or if it's just you and
who the other person to judge you know even if
it's Karl Lagerfeld. what does he has to say
to you you know i mean there it's just like how
much we value the taste of another person and
how devalue our own taste for whatever reason
so i think to get some confidence and to go after
what sparks joy in you to find little pieces
where you think i really love that and then like
oh but it doesn't fit in my apartment no it will
so get some stuff you really like even if it's
fun and build the rest around it and suddenly
you will see yourself with different eyes and
that you feel like really like i think so many
people live in places that are not really their
home they where they do not really feel at home
where they like have like a a normal solution
like everyone like in germany everyone has ikea
ikea is okay absolutely fine but You in the end
don't know in whose apartment you are living.
If this is your personality, if your personality
is exactly the same personality like your neighbor
and your other neighbor, then I'm actually really
sorry for you. And it's not even true. You know,
it's just like, oh, I'd rather take this or rather
buy the Polo Ralph Lauren shirt because I'm safe
then. You know, everyone knows it costs a fortune.
I don't have to prove that I have taste. I'm
good with that. And if I buy this, this is okay
because my neighbor has it too. what is it actually
what you want so do you want a life like everyone
else do you really just want to fit in or do
you have a style of your own because you live
in that apartment all the time you have to see
all the time it can stimulate and inspire you
or it can put you to sleep or can basically bore
the out of you it's huge so to play a devil's
advocate for one second here what do you say
to people who say that interior design is just
for people who have a lot of money and a lot
of time to really curate their space in the way
they want um but it lacks value for an everyday
person what would you say to somebody who says
that to you i mean i can understand that probably
not everyone can afford it but also as i mentioned
i don't think it was on record already but i
mean there will be people like me who do charity
projects just to be just to be able to um put
themselves out there and just like to create.
But then also you don't have to take a full,
you don't have to have a completely empty house
and give it over to an interior designer. And
they do. I mean, of course, that's more for the
rich people. But you can also say like, well,
you do the living room or you do part of the
living room or I'm able to spend that amount
of money and you give me some direction and the
rest I do myself. I think value, it always has
value because, I mean, not everyone, some people
can't cook, some people can't really well decorate,
some people, I mean, you get help in other areas
of your life too. But imagining how much time
you spend in your apartment or your house, you
know, it's like people who don't want to invest
in a mattress. Hey, you spent 33 % of your life
sleeping. Why would you sleep on a mattress that
basically ruins your back, you know? I mean,
it's just, you must just look. what it means
to you and i think like some people can't tolerate
clutter or maximalism some people can't tolerate
minimalism but there's something in between that
i think your home should have some personality
i mean otherwise you would think you have no
personality and there is just no person out there
with no personality so for somebody who you mentioned
ikea earlier somebody who has apartment that's
just full of ikea stuff and is resonating with
some what you're saying but doesn't really know
um how to start uh expressing their personality
in their home but what would you what sort of
first advice would you give to start getting
that self -expression into their home well i
think also these people will walk around or see
some instagram reels or anything where they say
oh that's a crazy painting or this vase is insane
or or something just start to get something that
really excites you and not always put behind
it, but that's not for me or I can't afford it.
Or, I mean, something that's really like when
you were 14 and you were going out at the first
disco or for your first date or where you have
that feeling of something is actually tingling
in me. So when I see that, that somehow sparks
joy in me. um just get this and get this and
then watch it and see what's what what it is
doing to you and if you find another piece buy
this and if this never happens to you if you
just like have no intimate relationship with
furniture or vases or whatever and doesn't trigger
any feelings for you, then you just, whatever,
live with your IKEA furniture and I don't know.
But I think for some people, they will have things.
They will go window shopping. They will go through
some newspapers or online magazines and see stuff
that they adore. But they think that's so far
away from what they have at home, they can't
even get started. But I would say start with
a lamp, start with a vase, start with anything.
Start with anything you would say that doesn't
fit into my apartment. That's perfect. I'm assuming
you started doing this for yourself when you
started living by yourself. When you are finding
those pieces, are you looking mainly in retail
stores or thrift shops? Because I'm imagining
some. Like more eccentric stuff being in like
kind of secondhand stores and stuff like that.
So what kind of stores are you getting a lot
of your stuff from or encouraging people to get
their stuff from? I'm looking everywhere. And
I think the experience in South Africa is very
different from Germany because there, for example,
like Marketplace is a big thing in South Africa.
And I get a lot of stuff from Marketplace, which
is cheap and which then I will like kind of like.
I will paint it or I will spray it or we'll do
something with it. That's my art work. But then
again, I get other stuff from more exclusive
websites. I get a lot of Jonathan Adler stuff.
I have some shops of some designers I really
adore and I get all of that stuff in, but not
too much. And then I also got like. on i even
get stuff from amazon so but you just have to
have an eye for it you can get stuff everywhere
i even tried to pursue i mean i recently stayed
in an airbnb and they had chairs that were rotting
on the terrace and i'm like please tell it to
me just sell it to me you can't i mean doesn't
mean anything they don't mean anything to you
they mean the world to me i may will make them
they still haven't sold it to me but i will give
they keep on pursuing it so basically i get also
i do not even know what the what the name is
in English, but from time to time, if you have
like furniture in Germany, at least you can call
the clear, they come the dustbin collection,
but they get the bigger stuff. So everyone is
putting their stuff out. And if you walk there
in an upper class neighborhood, you will find
the most amazing stuff. So I get it from everywhere.
I'm not shy of used stuff. I'm not very much
in antiques. i think they hold some sad energy
for me most of the time i think they hold all
the stories of whoever owned them um but i get
stuff from everywhere and i mean before i bought
the house in south africa i already had a garage
and five rooms in a cellar full of furniture
because i already knew what kind of house i'm
going to buy and how it has to look so i bought
the house for the furniture i had for the house
i wanted to create so i was storing them for
three years before they got shipped over in a
container to south africa and they came from
everywhere so you're just always forging around
looking for stuff that's uh yeah i mean i have
so much stuff in my garage i could uh immediately
furnish three new houses So they're just waiting
for, because the idea is already in my head.
So I would definitely try to sell that to my
next client. If their house, whatever kind of
suits it, but yeah. Wow. So with all of these
projects going on and having enough furniture
to furnish three other houses, what sort of experiences
in these periods you've been talking about have
been most formative for helping you define what
success means for you? Yeah, I mean, I do not
even really know, but I mean, the most success
is that I'm able to have and live and create
the life I want to, where I'm not forced to work
for anybody. I mean, I worked in an advertising
agency and it was pretty clear after three years
that I can't do that. So I think I can never,
ever work for someone because, I mean, my ideas
are just so strong and nobody can talk me out
of it. And I'm not willing to compromise anything
because the other person is on a higher, he's
a CIO and I'm just a copywriter. So it's just
like, I know that this idea is good. I must do
it. So it's just like, like this and success
is that I can do that now so that I could, I
could interior design my own bar, my own restaurant.
I can do my own printing campaigns. I can decide.
how I want to advertise, where I want to be advertised,
how much, how I want to spend my time, which
project I want to do, which project I don't want
to do. So that's my biggest success and also
get like recognition. It was always important
for me. That's also why I couldn't go to university
after I graduated. Because I never wanted to
be like sitting with 400 other people in a room
where the professor doesn't know my name. I always
needed something there. Like I needed an article
in a newspaper where I could put my name under
it and knew some people will recognize it. So
I love it to be able to put something out there
and people see it and they come into my bar and
they, oh God, that's crazy. That's so Berlin
or that's so something. I love people's reaction.
I'm getting that vibe from you for sure. I get
a lot of the, you're going to stamp your mark
on whatever you touch. So in that time of doing
all that, is there a lesson that you keep learning
the value of over and over again? Yeah, I think
like my favorite sentence, not my favorite sentence,
but one of my favorite sentences is like, you
never get a second chance to make a first impression.
And it's not that I have to be reminded of that
because I think I'm always myself in every situation.
But that's actually like so true for everything.
So it's like if someone you meet. is messing
up or overcharging you or coming in sloppy or
coming in too late it's kind of already over
you don't want to work with them you don't want
to engage with them you don't want to make love
to them it's like it's like basically it is you
can't make up for that so i think in 99 999 cases
you can't make up for that and i think though
the first impression this uh i'm always surprised
even if i see a red flag in the first impression
in a I want to overlook it for whatever reason
it comes back. It's always right. The first impression
is just always right. That's interesting. I feel
like that's one that I've over the years have
heard a lot of back and forth on as if like,
if the, sometimes the first impression is, you
know, they had like a bad morning or something
like that and they end up being better down the
line, yada, yada. But I also see the value of
what you're saying as well. And like having the
trusting of your intuition on things as well.
So I feel like that's one that's always, Always
up in the air a bit, but so you're in the camp
of those always are telling you the truth. You
know, I think if someone is aware of that he
made a bad impression, if someone turns around
after the first meeting or the next day and say,
listen, I was horrible yesterday. I'm totally
aware of me. Let me take you out for dinner or
whatever. And then you see like a change in their
persona. But most people just like they just
are that sloppy and they're not even aware of
it. They never apologize for it, though they're
not aware that they made a bad impression. And
then they will make another bad impression. That's
a great caveat. Yeah, I feel like there are plenty
of people who are just totally unaware that that
even happened. Yeah, exactly. So no, that's me.
Take it or leave it. Yeah, I leave it. Thank
you. Oh, I love it. So what is, I'm guessing
you have a lot of these types of things, but
what is something that feels like magic for you,
either in your life or in your ventures of designing
or anything that stands out for you? In terms
of designing, it's just like how much like, something
ugly and old can be turned around. It's just
like, I mean, the house that I bought in Kemps
Bay, that's the best example for it. So the people,
they built it in the 60s. They lived there, lovely
family, but they never did anything to it. So
the father's in a retirement home. Meanwhile,
the son lived there with his wife and his son.
And they obviously, I mean, you get blind to
it if this is your home where you grew up in,
you know? And I saw it and it was really like
from the, From the pictures from the real estate
agents or the first eight pictures I saw, I'm
like, no fucking way. So it's just like it's
like a it's like a toilet. Yeah. So but then
so one picture in my mind started to spin. And
it was really interesting that I have like kind
of I do not even know how to call it. I have
like a. Photographic memory in terms of foreseeing
stuff. So I don't need a computer program. I
can absolutely take a snapshot and see how this
will look in the end. And it definitely looks
and everyone who was participating. in the renovation
of that house they were like they were not sure
what they were doing they were like okay what
that crazy lady wants us to do here and but once
the container arrived and it arrived late so
once the container was there and everything wasn't
packed and everything was arranged so people
came in like why but it where was that yesterday
you know in the end it transformed very quickly
because they didn't see it coming they did not
know what they prepared it for they made a plain
canvas and then everything came in and that That's
magic. But even more magic, I think like how
all things are connected. So how like the great
collective subconsciousness works, how you can
pick up on your dreams, how you can dream the
dream at night from a person in the next room,
how it counts. I mean, they always say, at least
in Germany, if there's a bag of rice falling
in China, nobody cares. it does affect everything
so or like even like an animal that is in pain
and you is wild and you you decide to care for
it it will if you can overcome your fear and
and care for it it will turn to you it will feel
that you come in the best interest it will surrender
and that's the most magic all the um unspoken
words or energies that still um that still come
in like so The coincidences, the synchronicities,
that's the most magic. How do we align ourselves
with that? Because there's so many distractions
in the world nowadays that are taking our attention
away. But how do we, from your perspective, get
in resonance with that collective unconscious?
I think it's important to block all that out,
to limit your screen time, to limit your, did
you not always have a background noise? Did you
not always, when you catch yourself of doing
something all the time, scrolling or you're actively
searching for distraction, you know, I think
people search for distraction because there's
only one way. So distraction is away from you.
And then there's focusing, which is towards you.
But if you want to focus towards you, you must
be. aware that the first thing you will hit is
pain and pain and pain and pain so i think Yeah,
working to that pain until you can sit still
with what you're feeling. So because I think
we are on so much distraction because we don't
want to feel. I think distraction is like a feel
avoidance. So like when you, for example, smoke,
we say in therapy, you're opening up a side battlefield.
And, you know, when people smoke and they're
stressed and they get confronted with a stressful
situation, first thing they do, they lit a cigarette
because that puts a distance between you and
the issue. So in everything we do, every distraction,
every scrolling on Instagram, it is a distraction.
It puts like a stop between you and the issue.
But if you follow yourself, you get trapped in
your thoughts and you have an unpleasant thought
and then you grab a cigarette or a sip or you
put on YouTube or Instagram because you want
to get away from that. Figure out the point you
scare away from it. And instead of scaring away,
stay, stay a little bit longer, stay longer and
longer and longer and really follow your thought
until. You're at the source because we're so
unaware of what we're thinking and we're doing.
And it's also natural to step away or the people
who always jiggle, who sit there and their legs
are always like up and down and up and down and
up and down. That's like a dysregulated nervous
system. That's like, okay, what happens if I
force you to keep your legs quiet? What kind
of emotions come up with you? So watch yourself
intensely and also ask other for the opinions.
What is... strange or obvious in what is worse
where am i trying to take a side turn or where
i'm slipping out of the conversation and then
follow that route sitting with the pain being
comfortable with discomfort i think it is yeah
exactly from you exactly yeah so this has been
a great conversation um to finish and finish
us off here i'm curious if there's a piece of
advice that is important to you um that you could
leave us with yeah basically what i just said
you know like always follow where it hurts the
most always go for the direction where your biggest
fear is or your biggest pain is don't avoid that
because um it's not for me but i don't know who
said it but like the the cave you fear to enter
holds the treasures that you're seeking and that's
absolutely true Yeah, that's a great one. I think
that the current worldview is often to just drop
little bits of gold here and there and then lead
you away from whatever that bigger treasure is
because you have to get in the game for it. It's
all substitutes and it's all about how do I look
on that picture? If I look happy on that picture
and everyone thinks I'm happy, then I am happy.
But it's not true. Yeah, great things we can
all learn from. Well, Dane, this has been a really
good conversation. I really appreciate sharing
some of your earlier life and your experiences
with the different therapy types and views on
interior design and just everything that you've
been contributing so far. So thank you so much.
Thank you so much. It was lovely.