WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.419 I did not only serve them soup, I also served 00:00:02.419 --> 00:00:05.320 them like kind of a psychological intervention 00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:17.460 from time to time. Hi, everyone, and welcome 00:00:17.460 --> 00:00:20.160 back to For the Curious and Confused, a podcast 00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:22.140 for people who want to understand different perspectives 00:00:22.140 --> 00:00:24.960 of the world to the people who inhabit it. I'm 00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:27.620 your host, Dominic Taggart, and today I'm joined 00:00:27.620 --> 00:00:31.260 by Danny Gottschalk. danny is an interior designer 00:00:31.260 --> 00:00:34.560 and the founder of tinseltown a project development 00:00:34.560 --> 00:00:37.479 and interior design firm based in camp bays south 00:00:37.479 --> 00:00:40.320 africa danny is known for her bold immersive 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:43.039 interiors and her landmark project in camp bays 00:00:43.039 --> 00:00:46.840 which recreates 1960s palm springs glamour with 00:00:46.840 --> 00:00:50.560 striking hues and retro hollywood flair With 00:00:50.560 --> 00:00:52.619 a unique background spanning marketing and psychology, 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:55.799 her design spaces invite deep engagement and 00:00:55.799 --> 00:00:58.439 foster self -expression worldwide. I'm not very 00:00:58.439 --> 00:01:00.679 familiar with the ideas relating to interior 00:01:00.679 --> 00:01:03.079 design, so Dani, thank you for being here today 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:06.079 to share your expertise. Yeah, great. I'm looking 00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:09.859 so forward to that interview. Indeed. So to start 00:01:09.859 --> 00:01:12.299 us off, could you give us first a two -minute 00:01:12.299 --> 00:01:15.340 introduction into who Dani is and what motivates 00:01:15.340 --> 00:01:18.819 her? Exactly. That's always like a good question. 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:22.760 We have like a German, like a poet and he's like, 00:01:22.819 --> 00:01:26.260 he wrote a book saying like, who am I and if 00:01:26.260 --> 00:01:29.599 how many? So that's always like, okay, am I what 00:01:29.599 --> 00:01:32.000 I'm doing? So, I mean, I'm an interior designer, 00:01:32.200 --> 00:01:35.019 but I'm also a psychotherapist. I'm a bar owner. 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:38.219 Overall, I would say I'm a free spirit. Also, 00:01:38.299 --> 00:01:40.700 that's kind of a little bit overused term, but 00:01:40.700 --> 00:01:43.260 I'm basically a free spirit in everything I'm 00:01:43.260 --> 00:01:46.219 doing. And I'm like a true searcher. So I'm looking 00:01:46.219 --> 00:01:49.040 for true self -expression wherever, if I'm like 00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:52.459 decorating a bar, a home, if I'm writing an article 00:01:52.459 --> 00:01:54.700 or if I'm talking to people, trying to help them 00:01:54.700 --> 00:01:57.980 in their psychological, their soul journey. I 00:01:57.980 --> 00:02:03.700 just try to seek truth and find the real, authentic 00:02:03.700 --> 00:02:07.079 self -expression. That's very important nowadays. 00:02:07.260 --> 00:02:09.960 I feel like there's a lot of conforming to some 00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:12.060 standards or another. So I really resonate with 00:02:12.060 --> 00:02:15.419 that. So if you were to divide your life into 00:02:15.419 --> 00:02:17.460 different chapters, what are some of the most 00:02:17.460 --> 00:02:19.699 important ones that we should know about in order 00:02:19.699 --> 00:02:23.389 to understand you better? Well, I mean, of course, 00:02:23.430 --> 00:02:26.430 there's like childhood, which I do not have a 00:02:26.430 --> 00:02:28.909 lot of memory of. And I guess like childhood 00:02:28.909 --> 00:02:31.810 ended with eight or nine when my mom introduced 00:02:31.810 --> 00:02:34.550 me to basically everything a child should never 00:02:34.550 --> 00:02:38.169 hear about their parents' life. So like intimate 00:02:38.169 --> 00:02:41.169 details and whatsoever. And I think that was 00:02:41.169 --> 00:02:45.370 a start of like problems I had like psychologically 00:02:45.370 --> 00:02:49.069 and like growing up and being, I want to say 00:02:49.069 --> 00:02:53.349 confused, but yeah it just like changed everything 00:02:53.349 --> 00:02:56.009 you get into puberty you have too much information 00:02:56.009 --> 00:02:59.550 about your parents your mom is always like downloading 00:02:59.550 --> 00:03:03.169 her problems onto you you become the caregiver 00:03:03.169 --> 00:03:07.009 you're being parentified you're becoming your 00:03:07.009 --> 00:03:10.250 mom's mother and all of that so that led to like 00:03:10.250 --> 00:03:14.189 okay I'm not really happy I must do something 00:03:14.189 --> 00:03:17.550 against it I would say all that time till when 00:03:17.550 --> 00:03:21.759 I started be receiving psychotherapy was 25 and 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:24.840 then becoming a psychotherapist myself 10 years 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:28.039 later that can be divided in like the 10 years 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:33.939 between 25 and 35 is yeah finding myself going 00:03:33.939 --> 00:03:37.599 all ways uh psychotherapy has to offer like trying 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:40.919 to do as much as i can getting all the help that 00:03:40.919 --> 00:03:44.259 i can getting supportive of all on all levels 00:03:44.259 --> 00:03:47.960 like spiritual psychological like everything 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:52.740 that was out there. And in the meantime of all 00:03:52.740 --> 00:03:55.500 that process, opening my first restaurant, three 00:03:55.500 --> 00:04:01.020 years later, opening my first bar. And then when 00:04:01.020 --> 00:04:05.319 I saw the process of becoming myself is final, 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:09.780 becoming a psychotherapist as well with 37 or 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:12.819 something. But it's still going on. I'm still 00:04:12.819 --> 00:04:15.360 going to therapy and I'm still giving therapy. 00:04:15.560 --> 00:04:17.879 So it's an ongoing process. So you start the 00:04:17.879 --> 00:04:20.480 journey with thinking, oh, hopefully that's soon 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:23.699 over. But then it becomes your thing and your 00:04:23.699 --> 00:04:27.500 mission and your life. quite normal because you 00:04:27.500 --> 00:04:29.439 keep on brushing your teeth every morning until 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:32.259 you fall into the grave and you should just like 00:04:32.259 --> 00:04:36.439 take care of yourself also every day so yeah 00:04:36.439 --> 00:04:39.519 and then ever since that I would say since 40 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:43.060 another process like started of like buying houses 00:04:43.060 --> 00:04:46.939 and redecorating them like re -renovating them 00:04:46.939 --> 00:04:50.199 and selling them and now finally arriving in 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:54.519 my dream destination in Cape Town and buying 00:04:54.519 --> 00:04:57.000 and creating my masterpiece, which is called 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:00.480 The Beholder. And from here, it's all, it's basically, 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:02.480 I still have my bar and everything. And I'm also 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:05.120 still being a psychotherapist, but I would consider 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:07.560 I'm now like an interior designer full time. 00:05:08.680 --> 00:05:12.339 That's quite a journey. Wow. For the period you 00:05:12.339 --> 00:05:15.339 mentioned from about 25 to 35, when you had started 00:05:15.339 --> 00:05:19.129 doing psychotherapy, what kind of... experiences 00:05:19.129 --> 00:05:21.649 or things were you doing in that 10 -year period 00:05:21.649 --> 00:05:23.889 to as you said kind of discover yourself and 00:05:23.889 --> 00:05:27.910 tap into your your form of self -expression i 00:05:27.910 --> 00:05:31.329 basically did every kind of therapy out there 00:05:31.329 --> 00:05:34.209 i started like very classically with um like 00:05:34.209 --> 00:05:38.529 speaking therapy for 30 hours and then of course 00:05:38.529 --> 00:05:41.170 felt a little bit better but not so much and 00:05:41.170 --> 00:05:45.300 then i did like a in english also i'm like a 00:05:45.300 --> 00:05:47.920 german native speaker but i had a sense of that 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:50.600 i'm not staying in germany forever so i did in 00:05:50.600 --> 00:05:53.759 english like a young and dream psychoanalysis 00:05:53.759 --> 00:05:57.379 for 10 for seven full years but in between i 00:05:57.379 --> 00:06:00.740 did everything from reiki to freezing techniques 00:06:00.740 --> 00:06:04.319 to to all kind of uh even like i'm also talking 00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:06.519 to mediums i believe basically in everything 00:06:06.519 --> 00:06:09.230 i Don't believe that everyone has the gift. There's 00:06:09.230 --> 00:06:12.810 a lot of like smooth talkers out there, but there 00:06:12.810 --> 00:06:16.810 are people with gifts. And I received many blessings. 00:06:16.889 --> 00:06:19.629 But the most powerful thing I found was family 00:06:19.629 --> 00:06:22.209 constellation, which really like basically changed 00:06:22.209 --> 00:06:25.490 my life in one day. Like seven years of Freudian 00:06:25.490 --> 00:06:28.829 psychoanalysis, nothing compared to an afternoon 00:06:28.829 --> 00:06:32.110 family constellation. Unbelievable. So I decided 00:06:32.110 --> 00:06:35.009 to become a family constellation therapist mainly. 00:06:36.550 --> 00:06:39.209 Because that's, for me, the most powerful thing 00:06:39.209 --> 00:06:43.209 for everyone. It has also a spiritual element 00:06:43.209 --> 00:06:47.550 to it, but it's a real therapeutic setting. But 00:06:47.550 --> 00:06:49.110 it's very hard to explain, though. That's why 00:06:49.110 --> 00:06:51.670 very many people are like, oh, no, I'm not understanding 00:06:51.670 --> 00:06:54.529 it. I'm not doing it. I'm not surrendering myself 00:06:54.529 --> 00:06:57.129 to it. But if you surrender yourself to it, you 00:06:57.129 --> 00:06:59.990 will be just blown away. And that really, really, 00:07:00.029 --> 00:07:02.620 I must say, turned my life around. I did not 00:07:02.620 --> 00:07:05.439 only do it once, I did it 500 times because I 00:07:05.439 --> 00:07:11.579 wasn't active education in it. But it's not always 00:07:11.579 --> 00:07:14.060 mind blowing. But when it is, then it is. And 00:07:14.060 --> 00:07:17.920 I don't think any therapy can do for you what 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:21.319 this can do for you. I've never heard of that 00:07:21.319 --> 00:07:23.600 before. Is it you say family constellation or 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:27.240 consultation? Yeah, it's not super popular. It's 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:29.620 in some regions more popular than other, but 00:07:29.620 --> 00:07:31.399 it's rather that people say I never heard of 00:07:31.399 --> 00:07:34.540 it. It's like a croup therapy thing where like 00:07:34.540 --> 00:07:38.209 you're not going with your family, but the. people 00:07:38.209 --> 00:07:41.769 who are in the group representing people from 00:07:41.769 --> 00:07:44.089 your families. You basically sit next to the 00:07:44.089 --> 00:07:47.089 therapist in a circle and he will ask you, what's 00:07:47.089 --> 00:07:50.790 your topic? And if it's like addiction or drugs 00:07:50.790 --> 00:07:52.990 in general or the relationship with your mom 00:07:52.990 --> 00:07:55.910 or your dad or that you always end up in abusive 00:07:55.910 --> 00:07:58.829 relationships or if you are sick, whatever it 00:07:58.829 --> 00:08:02.350 is, your work environment, what's on your soul, 00:08:02.550 --> 00:08:07.230 that's exactly what they... what is ask so like 00:08:07.230 --> 00:08:10.350 um and then sorry i must if there's a storm coming 00:08:10.350 --> 00:08:12.750 up i quickly must close the window okay so yeah 00:08:12.750 --> 00:08:14.790 do what you gotta do yeah no problem no problem 00:08:14.790 --> 00:08:22.069 yeah summertime is is uh when the stores come 00:08:22.069 --> 00:08:25.750 and go sorry sorry for that super strange so 00:08:25.750 --> 00:08:29.329 um So the people in that group, they don't know 00:08:29.329 --> 00:08:31.850 nothing about you or your parents or your story. 00:08:31.910 --> 00:08:34.190 So it's actually really like a quiet process. 00:08:34.269 --> 00:08:36.450 But believe it or not, when you're standing there 00:08:36.450 --> 00:08:38.929 representing your mom or whatever, for example, 00:08:39.049 --> 00:08:41.070 which you probably not even know the name of, 00:08:41.190 --> 00:08:45.090 you start to feel something, not like massive 00:08:45.090 --> 00:08:47.850 stuff. But if you trust yourself and you're not 00:08:47.850 --> 00:08:49.909 too embarrassed to show it, you will feel you 00:08:49.909 --> 00:08:52.710 feel sadness or happiness or you feel drawn to 00:08:52.710 --> 00:08:55.559 another person in the circle or. You will look 00:08:55.559 --> 00:08:58.340 in certain directions and there are equivalents 00:08:58.340 --> 00:09:04.519 in that therapy. For example, a mom will always 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:07.299 stand in front of the child. If the whole constellation 00:09:07.299 --> 00:09:09.799 goes in a direction that the child isn't standing 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.279 in front of the mom, then you have been parentified. 00:09:12.340 --> 00:09:16.100 That's a very clear and obvious basis. If someone 00:09:16.100 --> 00:09:18.820 is looking to the ground, he's focused on someone 00:09:18.820 --> 00:09:21.539 dead. So if someone wants to leave the room, 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:24.730 he's also drawn to... he has suicidal tendencies 00:09:24.730 --> 00:09:27.549 and there's like an expression kind of for everything 00:09:27.549 --> 00:09:31.389 but the way the the thing unfolds it's just absolutely 00:09:31.389 --> 00:09:35.990 fascinating it it's about an hour and you just 00:09:35.990 --> 00:09:37.870 have to watch it you don't have to do anything 00:09:37.870 --> 00:09:40.190 you don't have to say anything and you can't 00:09:40.190 --> 00:09:42.149 look away i mean you of course you can but then 00:09:42.149 --> 00:09:44.269 you're not profiting and seeing that in front 00:09:44.269 --> 00:09:46.649 of your eyes with people who have no clue and 00:09:46.649 --> 00:09:49.649 who don't want to harm you don't want to educate 00:09:49.649 --> 00:09:53.570 you about anything or That's just mind blowing. 00:09:53.889 --> 00:09:56.750 And it's not always that strong. And sometimes 00:09:56.750 --> 00:09:58.850 you go out and say, I don't know really if this 00:09:58.850 --> 00:10:03.789 was for me. So, but most of the times it's amazing. 00:10:04.009 --> 00:10:07.610 And on some occasions it's just unbelievable. 00:10:07.730 --> 00:10:10.809 For me, it was twice unbelievable and really 00:10:10.809 --> 00:10:16.629 like a center turnaround in my life. Oh, that 00:10:16.629 --> 00:10:18.629 sounds very impactful. Yeah. I can imagine that 00:10:18.629 --> 00:10:22.330 I'm hearing a lot of kind of, themes of like 00:10:22.330 --> 00:10:25.110 there are these sort of repressed emotions kind 00:10:25.110 --> 00:10:27.690 of within you that are hard to access and in 00:10:27.690 --> 00:10:31.009 this setting it it gives you the space to let 00:10:31.009 --> 00:10:33.990 those repressed emotions kind of be be known 00:10:33.990 --> 00:10:36.389 and be experienced more freely which is exactly 00:10:37.319 --> 00:10:40.980 exactly it's absolutely beautiful and a lot of 00:10:40.980 --> 00:10:43.779 you are crying the people around crime and you 00:10:43.779 --> 00:10:45.980 will see that a little bit of your story is like 00:10:45.980 --> 00:10:48.240 everyone's story everyone sees themselves a little 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:50.419 bit in the other one and you're not going out 00:10:50.419 --> 00:10:52.639 there and say like oh i have it pretty good the 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:54.840 other one is really up you know it's like it's 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:58.679 basically hey we what whatever we are suffering 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:00.919 from it's always the worst for us we can't like 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:03.659 focus on the poor children in in africa because 00:11:03.659 --> 00:11:07.019 we're not related to them so our suffering is 00:11:07.019 --> 00:11:09.740 always the biggest one for us even if it's compared 00:11:09.740 --> 00:11:13.139 to other sufferings nothing but for us it will 00:11:13.139 --> 00:11:16.440 always be the worst what we suffer from yeah 00:11:16.440 --> 00:11:18.679 it's always hard to hold both of those the same 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:20.259 time of like acknowledging that your suffering 00:11:20.259 --> 00:11:23.639 is real and valid while also not being the worst 00:11:23.639 --> 00:11:27.269 suffering possible as well So leading into some 00:11:27.269 --> 00:11:30.470 other stuff, how have your own personal strengths 00:11:30.470 --> 00:11:34.090 and weaknesses influenced your path and where 00:11:34.090 --> 00:11:40.149 you are now? So this is really, the words go 00:11:40.149 --> 00:11:43.110 down here. This is so unusual for Germany, sorry. 00:11:44.169 --> 00:11:49.870 I think my weaknesses, I could be much richer, 00:11:49.870 --> 00:11:52.889 like in terms of money at this point, if I would 00:11:52.889 --> 00:11:55.289 not have so much trust with the wrong people 00:11:55.289 --> 00:12:00.470 and gave away some of my power just to, I don't 00:12:00.470 --> 00:12:03.389 know, just to be nice or people pleaser or something 00:12:03.389 --> 00:12:05.950 like that, or just not to be confronted with 00:12:05.950 --> 00:12:07.529 the things I don't want to deal with. I mean, 00:12:07.549 --> 00:12:09.450 if you're so young and you open your own restaurant. 00:12:10.220 --> 00:12:11.840 And someone comes along and they're like, oh, 00:12:11.899 --> 00:12:14.539 let me take care of your books and taxes. And 00:12:14.539 --> 00:12:17.580 you might be happy, you know, it's like, especially 00:12:17.580 --> 00:12:20.899 if it's kind of a father figure. But I found, 00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:23.460 so basically there's always a price to pay. If 00:12:23.460 --> 00:12:25.679 people want to help you, it's mostly not very 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:30.019 genuinely genuine. And in the end, you must really 00:12:30.019 --> 00:12:33.940 take care of everything yourself. I mean, I'm 00:12:33.940 --> 00:12:37.580 learned to not delay stuff. So if you have a 00:12:37.580 --> 00:12:39.679 business and you must deal with it immediately, 00:12:39.860 --> 00:12:42.179 it's not sitting on your head. It's not eating 00:12:42.179 --> 00:12:44.620 up your energy. You just like, there's this thing 00:12:44.620 --> 00:12:47.820 you hate the most. You do the first and it's 00:12:47.820 --> 00:12:50.460 out of your, out of your sight, you know? So, 00:12:50.460 --> 00:12:55.539 um, but I'm like a completely, so I'm very like 00:12:55.539 --> 00:12:59.759 focused and I'm very clear. I don't have like, 00:13:00.970 --> 00:13:04.149 black spots in me that i can't access so i think 00:13:04.149 --> 00:13:06.190 that's my biggest strength that whatever comes 00:13:06.190 --> 00:13:08.629 my way i don't have to shy away because there's 00:13:08.629 --> 00:13:12.029 nothing in me which i'm afraid to face and i 00:13:12.029 --> 00:13:15.049 think that that opened me the most doors that 00:13:15.049 --> 00:13:17.610 i saw i can't go there because that's one of 00:13:17.610 --> 00:13:20.549 my biggest fears beside me being very claustrophobic 00:13:20.549 --> 00:13:23.909 which i do not have under control other than 00:13:23.909 --> 00:13:27.590 that i will always say like No, I'm not afraid 00:13:27.590 --> 00:13:30.809 to do that. I'm not afraid to face that. I'm 00:13:30.809 --> 00:13:33.529 not afraid to hold the hand of a dying person, 00:13:33.610 --> 00:13:36.809 even if I don't know it. So I'm not afraid to 00:13:36.809 --> 00:13:40.909 look at the worst. I'm not afraid. So I can attend. 00:13:42.340 --> 00:13:45.379 everything because i i can see it i'm not taking 00:13:45.379 --> 00:13:47.580 it personal people always say like oh my god 00:13:47.580 --> 00:13:49.919 i must be so depressing be a therapist and listen 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:52.039 to all the sad stories of the people i'm like 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:54.679 no because it's not my story and it's not that 00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:58.059 i'm cold but i went through my own dark times 00:13:58.059 --> 00:14:00.519 and i know how to handle it and i'm not taking 00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:03.240 on the other person's pain i'm feeling for him 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:07.440 but i'm not like uh it doesn't remind me of the 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:10.100 anything that's hidden in myself so i think that's 00:14:10.100 --> 00:14:12.700 uh that you can only do when you have been there 00:14:12.700 --> 00:14:14.840 otherwise you will never be able i mean people 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.639 only meet you on the level that they met themselves 00:14:17.639 --> 00:14:20.159 they will leave you and abandon you in your grief 00:14:20.159 --> 00:14:23.120 if they don't want to be reminded on what they 00:14:23.120 --> 00:14:26.379 hurting that's a very that's a very true one 00:14:26.379 --> 00:14:29.190 yeah of people only being able capable of meeting 00:14:29.190 --> 00:14:31.470 you where they've met themselves. You mentioned 00:14:31.470 --> 00:14:34.110 the not being afraid part. Is that something 00:14:34.110 --> 00:14:36.350 that you've always kind of innately had or have 00:14:36.350 --> 00:14:38.090 you had to practice that in order to get better 00:14:38.090 --> 00:14:42.649 or somewhere in the middle? I'm not really like 00:14:42.649 --> 00:14:45.429 a courageous person. I would never like to bungee 00:14:45.429 --> 00:14:49.169 jumping or all of that. So, I mean, in that terms, 00:14:49.190 --> 00:14:51.309 I'm not courageous, but I'm courageous if it 00:14:51.309 --> 00:14:54.009 comes to taking responsibility for everything 00:14:54.009 --> 00:14:56.669 I do and everything. I'm also not afraid of money, 00:14:56.730 --> 00:14:59.809 but that's obviously not. my topic in that world 00:14:59.809 --> 00:15:02.789 also i'm not coming from like a rich family i'm 00:15:02.789 --> 00:15:05.850 not afraid of money if you i'm not afraid i would 00:15:05.850 --> 00:15:09.669 open like a hotel tomorrow in um in new york 00:15:09.669 --> 00:15:12.389 and i wouldn't mind so i'm i have no relation 00:15:12.389 --> 00:15:15.169 to the money because the money is also not what 00:15:15.169 --> 00:15:17.330 keeps me going so it's coming in it's coming 00:15:17.330 --> 00:15:20.649 getting out it's a substitute i'm also not controlling 00:15:20.649 --> 00:15:23.070 my employees because i think well if you steal 00:15:23.070 --> 00:15:25.509 from me you go to hell the money will come on 00:15:25.509 --> 00:15:28.110 from from another side again you know so like 00:15:28.110 --> 00:15:30.629 i think like what's meant for me can't be lost 00:15:30.629 --> 00:15:34.120 if you have good intentions um nobody can really 00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:37.320 steal from you nobody can create with by stealing 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:40.340 your energy it's just uh not possible i guess 00:15:40.340 --> 00:15:44.000 you mentioned the the money not being the reason 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:46.620 you do it um so i think this is a good good transition 00:15:46.620 --> 00:15:49.379 to the interior design um so what did you realize 00:15:49.379 --> 00:15:52.919 or learn that interior design and uh even hospitality 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:57.200 also was important to you I think hospitality 00:15:57.200 --> 00:15:59.799 was important to me because in my family, it 00:15:59.799 --> 00:16:02.360 was always like, not because we were poor, we 00:16:02.360 --> 00:16:04.940 weren't poor, but my mom always only cooked for 00:16:04.940 --> 00:16:08.100 my dad, me and that on her. So I could never 00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:10.279 have my friends staying over. My friends had 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:13.159 always to go home and my, in my friend's house, 00:16:13.240 --> 00:16:15.720 I was always welcome to like stay for dinner 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:18.340 or whatever. And I found it just terrible. So 00:16:18.340 --> 00:16:24.139 I think. I always wanted to, I always love to 00:16:24.139 --> 00:16:26.440 cook for people. I always love to nourish people, 00:16:26.620 --> 00:16:28.899 maybe because I was so undernourished, but I 00:16:28.899 --> 00:16:32.720 think like. food is like an act of love for me 00:16:32.720 --> 00:16:35.019 and I love feeding people. And I mean, I opened 00:16:35.019 --> 00:16:38.500 a soup bar, which is in other parts of the world, 00:16:38.539 --> 00:16:42.440 a soup kitchen is for the homeless. And so mine 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:44.620 was not for the homeless, but of course there 00:16:44.620 --> 00:16:46.820 also came people in that couldn't afford. And 00:16:46.820 --> 00:16:49.600 I did not only serve them soup, I also served 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:52.679 them like kind of a, like a psychological intervention 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.299 from time to time, where I was also thinking 00:16:55.299 --> 00:16:58.100 like, no, it's getting too much now because you're 00:16:58.100 --> 00:17:02.210 like the person you are. You're like someone, 00:17:02.509 --> 00:17:05.829 I mean, I love to dig into other people's souls 00:17:05.829 --> 00:17:07.910 and then also really listen to them and give 00:17:07.910 --> 00:17:10.430 them advice. But sometimes it's too much. If 00:17:10.430 --> 00:17:13.470 you sell soup to 500 people a day and like 10 00:17:13.470 --> 00:17:15.710 of them pour their heart out to you, it's already 00:17:15.710 --> 00:17:18.269 too much. It's like it's not worth the five euros 00:17:18.269 --> 00:17:21.789 of soup. So I thought like, no, let's get a diploma 00:17:21.789 --> 00:17:25.029 on it. So if it's getting too much for me, I 00:17:25.029 --> 00:17:28.960 can charge for it. yeah and interior design is 00:17:28.960 --> 00:17:31.819 like the step forward so first of all it was 00:17:31.819 --> 00:17:34.119 a nurturing and then it was like the creating 00:17:34.119 --> 00:17:37.960 was what it's there it's basically like it's 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:40.799 a reflection of the soul the outside and just 00:17:40.799 --> 00:17:43.940 like being able to create it in my own way i 00:17:43.940 --> 00:17:47.059 mean when you're like when you're depressed or 00:17:47.059 --> 00:17:48.980 whatever or if you have psychological issues 00:17:50.080 --> 00:17:53.339 You feel like you're like forced to live in the 00:17:53.339 --> 00:17:56.400 basically in your children room where you grew 00:17:56.400 --> 00:17:59.960 up like emotionally and whatsoever. And if you 00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:02.200 see that you can create your whole life, really 00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.059 yourself, you're grown up now. You don't have 00:18:04.059 --> 00:18:07.599 to stay in that apartment of your parents emotionally 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:11.400 and internally and externally. So you can express 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:15.160 yourself in a way that's much more you and that 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.109 mirrors. you much more. And I think that's a 00:18:18.109 --> 00:18:21.250 lot that like the mirroring isn't happening between 00:18:21.250 --> 00:18:23.829 the child and the parents. So like, I love to 00:18:23.829 --> 00:18:26.970 create spaces that mirror me and I mirror it 00:18:26.970 --> 00:18:30.569 back to them. I feel like we're starting to get 00:18:30.569 --> 00:18:33.190 into some good stuff now. So for people who aren't 00:18:33.190 --> 00:18:35.329 as familiar with all of the interior design and 00:18:35.329 --> 00:18:37.609 psychology of spaces, I'm hearing a lot about 00:18:37.609 --> 00:18:41.089 having the mirroring of you and the space. So 00:18:41.089 --> 00:18:43.250 what are some of the other important ideas that 00:18:43.250 --> 00:18:47.579 really give that substance like the importance 00:18:47.579 --> 00:18:51.539 of mirroring your spaces and being able to resonate 00:18:51.539 --> 00:18:53.279 with what you see around you in the space you 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:57.640 exist in yeah i think it's very it's like it's 00:18:57.640 --> 00:19:02.440 self -empowering to to to create your space yourself 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:04.519 of course you can also give your power to an 00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:06.980 interior designer good for me and some people 00:19:06.980 --> 00:19:09.180 probably really don't have it in them or they 00:19:09.180 --> 00:19:12.299 have too much other stuff to do or but in general 00:19:12.299 --> 00:19:16.220 i would say like it's lovely if people discover 00:19:17.069 --> 00:19:19.109 what they really want, what they really like. 00:19:19.150 --> 00:19:20.910 And of course, also in interior designer can 00:19:20.910 --> 00:19:23.549 be there to suggest to them. And then they're 00:19:23.549 --> 00:19:26.130 suddenly like, oh, I love that, but I could never 00:19:26.130 --> 00:19:28.650 do that. And sometimes really like this, you 00:19:28.650 --> 00:19:31.849 see like a hot dress on another woman and you 00:19:31.849 --> 00:19:33.730 think I could never wear it, but probably you 00:19:33.730 --> 00:19:36.809 could, you know? So sometimes it's really not 00:19:36.809 --> 00:19:39.349 you, but sometimes it's you, but you're not bold 00:19:39.349 --> 00:19:41.880 enough because you probably have. learn from 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:44.140 an early stage or one has told you you don't 00:19:44.140 --> 00:19:46.680 have the best taste or that looks terrible or 00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:49.440 whatsoever and then it's kind of a confidence 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:52.519 to know and to find out who you actually are 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:55.259 if it looks terrible or if it's just you and 00:19:55.259 --> 00:19:58.259 who the other person to judge you know even if 00:19:58.259 --> 00:20:00.880 it's Karl Lagerfeld. what does he has to say 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:04.079 to you you know i mean there it's just like how 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:06.680 much we value the taste of another person and 00:20:06.680 --> 00:20:10.160 how devalue our own taste for whatever reason 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:13.640 so i think to get some confidence and to go after 00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:17.940 what sparks joy in you to find little pieces 00:20:17.940 --> 00:20:20.619 where you think i really love that and then like 00:20:20.619 --> 00:20:22.559 oh but it doesn't fit in my apartment no it will 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:26.019 so get some stuff you really like even if it's 00:20:26.019 --> 00:20:28.740 fun and build the rest around it and suddenly 00:20:28.740 --> 00:20:31.319 you will see yourself with different eyes and 00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:34.660 that you feel like really like i think so many 00:20:34.660 --> 00:20:37.140 people live in places that are not really their 00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:39.500 home they where they do not really feel at home 00:20:39.500 --> 00:20:45.339 where they like have like a a normal solution 00:20:45.339 --> 00:20:47.940 like everyone like in germany everyone has ikea 00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:52.440 ikea is okay absolutely fine but You in the end 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:54.319 don't know in whose apartment you are living. 00:20:54.500 --> 00:20:56.640 If this is your personality, if your personality 00:20:56.640 --> 00:20:59.019 is exactly the same personality like your neighbor 00:20:59.019 --> 00:21:00.900 and your other neighbor, then I'm actually really 00:21:00.900 --> 00:21:03.059 sorry for you. And it's not even true. You know, 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:05.980 it's just like, oh, I'd rather take this or rather 00:21:05.980 --> 00:21:09.160 buy the Polo Ralph Lauren shirt because I'm safe 00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:11.559 then. You know, everyone knows it costs a fortune. 00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:14.700 I don't have to prove that I have taste. I'm 00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:17.259 good with that. And if I buy this, this is okay 00:21:17.259 --> 00:21:20.150 because my neighbor has it too. what is it actually 00:21:20.150 --> 00:21:23.049 what you want so do you want a life like everyone 00:21:23.049 --> 00:21:26.130 else do you really just want to fit in or do 00:21:26.130 --> 00:21:27.789 you have a style of your own because you live 00:21:27.789 --> 00:21:30.329 in that apartment all the time you have to see 00:21:30.329 --> 00:21:33.430 all the time it can stimulate and inspire you 00:21:33.430 --> 00:21:36.450 or it can put you to sleep or can basically bore 00:21:36.450 --> 00:21:42.890 the out of you it's huge so to play a devil's 00:21:42.890 --> 00:21:45.549 advocate for one second here what do you say 00:21:45.549 --> 00:21:48.730 to people who say that interior design is just 00:21:48.730 --> 00:21:51.009 for people who have a lot of money and a lot 00:21:51.009 --> 00:21:53.609 of time to really curate their space in the way 00:21:53.609 --> 00:21:56.029 they want um but it lacks value for an everyday 00:21:56.029 --> 00:21:57.930 person what would you say to somebody who says 00:21:57.930 --> 00:22:01.609 that to you i mean i can understand that probably 00:22:01.609 --> 00:22:04.150 not everyone can afford it but also as i mentioned 00:22:04.150 --> 00:22:06.589 i don't think it was on record already but i 00:22:06.589 --> 00:22:08.990 mean there will be people like me who do charity 00:22:08.990 --> 00:22:13.079 projects just to be just to be able to um put 00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:15.819 themselves out there and just like to create. 00:22:15.940 --> 00:22:19.880 But then also you don't have to take a full, 00:22:19.940 --> 00:22:22.059 you don't have to have a completely empty house 00:22:22.059 --> 00:22:24.160 and give it over to an interior designer. And 00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:26.359 they do. I mean, of course, that's more for the 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:29.440 rich people. But you can also say like, well, 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:32.160 you do the living room or you do part of the 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:34.380 living room or I'm able to spend that amount 00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:36.740 of money and you give me some direction and the 00:22:36.740 --> 00:22:40.150 rest I do myself. I think value, it always has 00:22:40.150 --> 00:22:43.029 value because, I mean, not everyone, some people 00:22:43.029 --> 00:22:45.230 can't cook, some people can't really well decorate, 00:22:45.410 --> 00:22:49.509 some people, I mean, you get help in other areas 00:22:49.509 --> 00:22:53.589 of your life too. But imagining how much time 00:22:53.589 --> 00:22:55.690 you spend in your apartment or your house, you 00:22:55.690 --> 00:22:57.230 know, it's like people who don't want to invest 00:22:57.230 --> 00:23:00.829 in a mattress. Hey, you spent 33 % of your life 00:23:00.829 --> 00:23:03.470 sleeping. Why would you sleep on a mattress that 00:23:03.470 --> 00:23:06.130 basically ruins your back, you know? I mean, 00:23:06.230 --> 00:23:09.119 it's just, you must just look. what it means 00:23:09.119 --> 00:23:13.079 to you and i think like some people can't tolerate 00:23:13.079 --> 00:23:15.900 clutter or maximalism some people can't tolerate 00:23:15.900 --> 00:23:20.779 minimalism but there's something in between that 00:23:20.779 --> 00:23:23.880 i think your home should have some personality 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:26.880 i mean otherwise you would think you have no 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:29.039 personality and there is just no person out there 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:33.819 with no personality so for somebody who you mentioned 00:23:33.819 --> 00:23:36.609 ikea earlier somebody who has apartment that's 00:23:36.609 --> 00:23:39.190 just full of ikea stuff and is resonating with 00:23:39.190 --> 00:23:40.890 some what you're saying but doesn't really know 00:23:40.890 --> 00:23:44.589 um how to start uh expressing their personality 00:23:44.589 --> 00:23:47.170 in their home but what would you what sort of 00:23:47.170 --> 00:23:49.789 first advice would you give to start getting 00:23:49.789 --> 00:23:52.690 that self -expression into their home well i 00:23:52.690 --> 00:23:56.529 think also these people will walk around or see 00:23:56.529 --> 00:23:59.410 some instagram reels or anything where they say 00:23:59.410 --> 00:24:03.509 oh that's a crazy painting or this vase is insane 00:24:03.509 --> 00:24:07.170 or or something just start to get something that 00:24:07.170 --> 00:24:09.730 really excites you and not always put behind 00:24:09.730 --> 00:24:12.349 it, but that's not for me or I can't afford it. 00:24:12.450 --> 00:24:15.890 Or, I mean, something that's really like when 00:24:15.890 --> 00:24:19.589 you were 14 and you were going out at the first 00:24:19.589 --> 00:24:22.650 disco or for your first date or where you have 00:24:22.650 --> 00:24:25.269 that feeling of something is actually tingling 00:24:25.269 --> 00:24:27.670 in me. So when I see that, that somehow sparks 00:24:27.670 --> 00:24:32.009 joy in me. um just get this and get this and 00:24:32.009 --> 00:24:34.569 then watch it and see what's what what it is 00:24:34.569 --> 00:24:37.609 doing to you and if you find another piece buy 00:24:37.609 --> 00:24:40.170 this and if this never happens to you if you 00:24:40.170 --> 00:24:43.970 just like have no intimate relationship with 00:24:43.970 --> 00:24:46.910 furniture or vases or whatever and doesn't trigger 00:24:46.910 --> 00:24:49.289 any feelings for you, then you just, whatever, 00:24:49.470 --> 00:24:52.170 live with your IKEA furniture and I don't know. 00:24:52.329 --> 00:24:55.809 But I think for some people, they will have things. 00:24:56.049 --> 00:24:59.609 They will go window shopping. They will go through 00:24:59.609 --> 00:25:02.750 some newspapers or online magazines and see stuff 00:25:02.750 --> 00:25:06.430 that they adore. But they think that's so far 00:25:06.430 --> 00:25:08.609 away from what they have at home, they can't 00:25:08.609 --> 00:25:11.009 even get started. But I would say start with 00:25:11.009 --> 00:25:13.589 a lamp, start with a vase, start with anything. 00:25:13.710 --> 00:25:15.829 Start with anything you would say that doesn't 00:25:15.829 --> 00:25:20.210 fit into my apartment. That's perfect. I'm assuming 00:25:20.210 --> 00:25:22.390 you started doing this for yourself when you 00:25:22.390 --> 00:25:25.549 started living by yourself. When you are finding 00:25:25.549 --> 00:25:28.410 those pieces, are you looking mainly in retail 00:25:28.410 --> 00:25:32.089 stores or thrift shops? Because I'm imagining 00:25:32.089 --> 00:25:35.279 some. Like more eccentric stuff being in like 00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:36.900 kind of secondhand stores and stuff like that. 00:25:37.420 --> 00:25:41.759 So what kind of stores are you getting a lot 00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:43.960 of your stuff from or encouraging people to get 00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:46.480 their stuff from? I'm looking everywhere. And 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:48.460 I think the experience in South Africa is very 00:25:48.460 --> 00:25:51.420 different from Germany because there, for example, 00:25:51.500 --> 00:25:54.200 like Marketplace is a big thing in South Africa. 00:25:54.299 --> 00:25:57.039 And I get a lot of stuff from Marketplace, which 00:25:57.039 --> 00:25:59.759 is cheap and which then I will like kind of like. 00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:02.559 I will paint it or I will spray it or we'll do 00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:05.759 something with it. That's my art work. But then 00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:08.460 again, I get other stuff from more exclusive 00:26:08.460 --> 00:26:10.880 websites. I get a lot of Jonathan Adler stuff. 00:26:11.019 --> 00:26:14.339 I have some shops of some designers I really 00:26:14.339 --> 00:26:17.359 adore and I get all of that stuff in, but not 00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:21.130 too much. And then I also got like. on i even 00:26:21.130 --> 00:26:23.529 get stuff from amazon so but you just have to 00:26:23.529 --> 00:26:25.690 have an eye for it you can get stuff everywhere 00:26:25.690 --> 00:26:28.349 i even tried to pursue i mean i recently stayed 00:26:28.349 --> 00:26:31.509 in an airbnb and they had chairs that were rotting 00:26:31.509 --> 00:26:33.869 on the terrace and i'm like please tell it to 00:26:33.869 --> 00:26:36.710 me just sell it to me you can't i mean doesn't 00:26:36.710 --> 00:26:38.829 mean anything they don't mean anything to you 00:26:38.829 --> 00:26:40.990 they mean the world to me i may will make them 00:26:40.990 --> 00:26:43.210 they still haven't sold it to me but i will give 00:26:43.210 --> 00:26:47.269 they keep on pursuing it so basically i get also 00:26:47.269 --> 00:26:50.299 i do not even know what the what the name is 00:26:50.299 --> 00:26:53.279 in English, but from time to time, if you have 00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:55.519 like furniture in Germany, at least you can call 00:26:55.519 --> 00:26:59.619 the clear, they come the dustbin collection, 00:26:59.859 --> 00:27:02.339 but they get the bigger stuff. So everyone is 00:27:02.339 --> 00:27:04.700 putting their stuff out. And if you walk there 00:27:04.700 --> 00:27:07.380 in an upper class neighborhood, you will find 00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:10.259 the most amazing stuff. So I get it from everywhere. 00:27:10.359 --> 00:27:13.319 I'm not shy of used stuff. I'm not very much 00:27:13.319 --> 00:27:17.140 in antiques. i think they hold some sad energy 00:27:17.140 --> 00:27:19.420 for me most of the time i think they hold all 00:27:19.420 --> 00:27:23.420 the stories of whoever owned them um but i get 00:27:23.420 --> 00:27:25.519 stuff from everywhere and i mean before i bought 00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:28.500 the house in south africa i already had a garage 00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:32.400 and five rooms in a cellar full of furniture 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:34.740 because i already knew what kind of house i'm 00:27:34.740 --> 00:27:36.799 going to buy and how it has to look so i bought 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:39.099 the house for the furniture i had for the house 00:27:39.099 --> 00:27:41.720 i wanted to create so i was storing them for 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:44.099 three years before they got shipped over in a 00:27:44.099 --> 00:27:46.579 container to south africa and they came from 00:27:46.579 --> 00:27:50.279 everywhere so you're just always forging around 00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:52.740 looking for stuff that's uh yeah i mean i have 00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:55.359 so much stuff in my garage i could uh immediately 00:27:55.359 --> 00:27:58.559 furnish three new houses So they're just waiting 00:27:58.559 --> 00:28:01.299 for, because the idea is already in my head. 00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:04.059 So I would definitely try to sell that to my 00:28:04.059 --> 00:28:08.019 next client. If their house, whatever kind of 00:28:08.019 --> 00:28:13.539 suits it, but yeah. Wow. So with all of these 00:28:13.539 --> 00:28:15.759 projects going on and having enough furniture 00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:18.660 to furnish three other houses, what sort of experiences 00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:21.019 in these periods you've been talking about have 00:28:21.019 --> 00:28:23.900 been most formative for helping you define what 00:28:23.900 --> 00:28:30.970 success means for you? Yeah, I mean, I do not 00:28:30.970 --> 00:28:33.730 even really know, but I mean, the most success 00:28:33.730 --> 00:28:38.390 is that I'm able to have and live and create 00:28:38.390 --> 00:28:42.170 the life I want to, where I'm not forced to work 00:28:42.170 --> 00:28:44.309 for anybody. I mean, I worked in an advertising 00:28:44.309 --> 00:28:48.210 agency and it was pretty clear after three years 00:28:48.210 --> 00:28:51.829 that I can't do that. So I think I can never, 00:28:51.829 --> 00:28:55.089 ever work for someone because, I mean, my ideas 00:28:55.089 --> 00:28:57.250 are just so strong and nobody can talk me out 00:28:57.250 --> 00:28:59.509 of it. And I'm not willing to compromise anything 00:28:59.509 --> 00:29:04.230 because the other person is on a higher, he's 00:29:04.230 --> 00:29:06.769 a CIO and I'm just a copywriter. So it's just 00:29:06.769 --> 00:29:09.910 like, I know that this idea is good. I must do 00:29:09.910 --> 00:29:12.670 it. So it's just like, like this and success 00:29:12.670 --> 00:29:15.269 is that I can do that now so that I could, I 00:29:15.269 --> 00:29:18.390 could interior design my own bar, my own restaurant. 00:29:18.410 --> 00:29:22.369 I can do my own printing campaigns. I can decide. 00:29:23.069 --> 00:29:25.769 how I want to advertise, where I want to be advertised, 00:29:26.230 --> 00:29:29.509 how much, how I want to spend my time, which 00:29:29.509 --> 00:29:31.549 project I want to do, which project I don't want 00:29:31.549 --> 00:29:35.670 to do. So that's my biggest success and also 00:29:35.670 --> 00:29:39.750 get like recognition. It was always important 00:29:39.750 --> 00:29:41.990 for me. That's also why I couldn't go to university 00:29:41.990 --> 00:29:46.759 after I graduated. Because I never wanted to 00:29:46.759 --> 00:29:49.740 be like sitting with 400 other people in a room 00:29:49.740 --> 00:29:51.779 where the professor doesn't know my name. I always 00:29:51.779 --> 00:29:53.900 needed something there. Like I needed an article 00:29:53.900 --> 00:29:56.400 in a newspaper where I could put my name under 00:29:56.400 --> 00:29:59.359 it and knew some people will recognize it. So 00:29:59.359 --> 00:30:02.740 I love it to be able to put something out there 00:30:02.740 --> 00:30:06.400 and people see it and they come into my bar and 00:30:06.400 --> 00:30:08.599 they, oh God, that's crazy. That's so Berlin 00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:11.339 or that's so something. I love people's reaction. 00:30:13.039 --> 00:30:15.519 I'm getting that vibe from you for sure. I get 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:17.500 a lot of the, you're going to stamp your mark 00:30:17.500 --> 00:30:20.859 on whatever you touch. So in that time of doing 00:30:20.859 --> 00:30:23.539 all that, is there a lesson that you keep learning 00:30:23.539 --> 00:30:29.119 the value of over and over again? Yeah, I think 00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:32.539 like my favorite sentence, not my favorite sentence, 00:30:32.579 --> 00:30:34.359 but one of my favorite sentences is like, you 00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:36.519 never get a second chance to make a first impression. 00:30:37.959 --> 00:30:41.680 And it's not that I have to be reminded of that 00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:44.599 because I think I'm always myself in every situation. 00:30:44.599 --> 00:30:47.720 But that's actually like so true for everything. 00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:53.589 So it's like if someone you meet. is messing 00:30:53.589 --> 00:30:57.289 up or overcharging you or coming in sloppy or 00:30:57.289 --> 00:30:59.670 coming in too late it's kind of already over 00:30:59.670 --> 00:31:01.609 you don't want to work with them you don't want 00:31:01.609 --> 00:31:03.609 to engage with them you don't want to make love 00:31:03.609 --> 00:31:06.829 to them it's like it's like basically it is you 00:31:06.829 --> 00:31:10.910 can't make up for that so i think in 99 999 cases 00:31:10.910 --> 00:31:13.369 you can't make up for that and i think though 00:31:13.369 --> 00:31:17.029 the first impression this uh i'm always surprised 00:31:17.029 --> 00:31:19.690 even if i see a red flag in the first impression 00:31:19.690 --> 00:31:22.819 in a I want to overlook it for whatever reason 00:31:22.819 --> 00:31:26.700 it comes back. It's always right. The first impression 00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:29.779 is just always right. That's interesting. I feel 00:31:29.779 --> 00:31:31.359 like that's one that I've over the years have 00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:33.700 heard a lot of back and forth on as if like, 00:31:33.700 --> 00:31:37.359 if the, sometimes the first impression is, you 00:31:37.359 --> 00:31:39.180 know, they had like a bad morning or something 00:31:39.180 --> 00:31:41.480 like that and they end up being better down the 00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:44.079 line, yada, yada. But I also see the value of 00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:46.039 what you're saying as well. And like having the 00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:47.980 trusting of your intuition on things as well. 00:31:48.019 --> 00:31:50.880 So I feel like that's one that's always, Always 00:31:50.880 --> 00:31:52.640 up in the air a bit, but so you're in the camp 00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:55.579 of those always are telling you the truth. You 00:31:55.579 --> 00:31:58.000 know, I think if someone is aware of that he 00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:00.099 made a bad impression, if someone turns around 00:32:00.099 --> 00:32:02.680 after the first meeting or the next day and say, 00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:05.339 listen, I was horrible yesterday. I'm totally 00:32:05.339 --> 00:32:07.779 aware of me. Let me take you out for dinner or 00:32:07.779 --> 00:32:10.019 whatever. And then you see like a change in their 00:32:10.019 --> 00:32:12.119 persona. But most people just like they just 00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:16.160 are that sloppy and they're not even aware of 00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:18.619 it. They never apologize for it, though they're 00:32:18.619 --> 00:32:20.720 not aware that they made a bad impression. And 00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:23.910 then they will make another bad impression. That's 00:32:23.910 --> 00:32:25.970 a great caveat. Yeah, I feel like there are plenty 00:32:25.970 --> 00:32:28.470 of people who are just totally unaware that that 00:32:28.470 --> 00:32:31.529 even happened. Yeah, exactly. So no, that's me. 00:32:31.690 --> 00:32:33.750 Take it or leave it. Yeah, I leave it. Thank 00:32:33.750 --> 00:32:38.710 you. Oh, I love it. So what is, I'm guessing 00:32:38.710 --> 00:32:40.670 you have a lot of these types of things, but 00:32:40.670 --> 00:32:42.569 what is something that feels like magic for you, 00:32:42.630 --> 00:32:46.109 either in your life or in your ventures of designing 00:32:46.109 --> 00:32:49.910 or anything that stands out for you? In terms 00:32:49.910 --> 00:32:53.160 of designing, it's just like how much like, something 00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:56.579 ugly and old can be turned around. It's just 00:32:56.579 --> 00:32:58.299 like, I mean, the house that I bought in Kemps 00:32:58.299 --> 00:33:00.559 Bay, that's the best example for it. So the people, 00:33:00.619 --> 00:33:03.740 they built it in the 60s. They lived there, lovely 00:33:03.740 --> 00:33:06.400 family, but they never did anything to it. So 00:33:06.400 --> 00:33:08.980 the father's in a retirement home. Meanwhile, 00:33:09.140 --> 00:33:12.279 the son lived there with his wife and his son. 00:33:12.660 --> 00:33:15.140 And they obviously, I mean, you get blind to 00:33:15.140 --> 00:33:17.720 it if this is your home where you grew up in, 00:33:17.779 --> 00:33:21.599 you know? And I saw it and it was really like 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:24.400 from the, From the pictures from the real estate 00:33:24.400 --> 00:33:26.740 agents or the first eight pictures I saw, I'm 00:33:26.740 --> 00:33:29.599 like, no fucking way. So it's just like it's 00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:32.980 like a it's like a toilet. Yeah. So but then 00:33:32.980 --> 00:33:37.039 so one picture in my mind started to spin. And 00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:40.119 it was really interesting that I have like kind 00:33:40.119 --> 00:33:42.019 of I do not even know how to call it. I have 00:33:42.019 --> 00:33:45.970 like a. Photographic memory in terms of foreseeing 00:33:45.970 --> 00:33:48.289 stuff. So I don't need a computer program. I 00:33:48.289 --> 00:33:51.910 can absolutely take a snapshot and see how this 00:33:51.910 --> 00:33:54.609 will look in the end. And it definitely looks 00:33:54.609 --> 00:33:57.720 and everyone who was participating. in the renovation 00:33:57.720 --> 00:34:00.279 of that house they were like they were not sure 00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:02.019 what they were doing they were like okay what 00:34:02.019 --> 00:34:05.160 that crazy lady wants us to do here and but once 00:34:05.160 --> 00:34:07.960 the container arrived and it arrived late so 00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:10.400 once the container was there and everything wasn't 00:34:10.400 --> 00:34:12.219 packed and everything was arranged so people 00:34:12.219 --> 00:34:15.119 came in like why but it where was that yesterday 00:34:15.119 --> 00:34:17.679 you know in the end it transformed very quickly 00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:20.019 because they didn't see it coming they did not 00:34:20.019 --> 00:34:23.059 know what they prepared it for they made a plain 00:34:23.059 --> 00:34:26.510 canvas and then everything came in and that That's 00:34:26.510 --> 00:34:30.630 magic. But even more magic, I think like how 00:34:30.630 --> 00:34:35.070 all things are connected. So how like the great 00:34:35.070 --> 00:34:38.710 collective subconsciousness works, how you can 00:34:38.710 --> 00:34:41.989 pick up on your dreams, how you can dream the 00:34:41.989 --> 00:34:45.030 dream at night from a person in the next room, 00:34:45.130 --> 00:34:48.230 how it counts. I mean, they always say, at least 00:34:48.230 --> 00:34:51.090 in Germany, if there's a bag of rice falling 00:34:51.090 --> 00:34:54.789 in China, nobody cares. it does affect everything 00:34:54.789 --> 00:34:58.210 so or like even like an animal that is in pain 00:34:58.210 --> 00:35:02.469 and you is wild and you you decide to care for 00:35:02.469 --> 00:35:05.630 it it will if you can overcome your fear and 00:35:05.630 --> 00:35:08.590 and care for it it will turn to you it will feel 00:35:08.590 --> 00:35:10.730 that you come in the best interest it will surrender 00:35:10.730 --> 00:35:17.389 and that's the most magic all the um unspoken 00:35:17.389 --> 00:35:22.469 words or energies that still um that still come 00:35:22.469 --> 00:35:26.550 in like so The coincidences, the synchronicities, 00:35:26.550 --> 00:35:30.570 that's the most magic. How do we align ourselves 00:35:30.570 --> 00:35:33.150 with that? Because there's so many distractions 00:35:33.150 --> 00:35:35.409 in the world nowadays that are taking our attention 00:35:35.409 --> 00:35:39.730 away. But how do we, from your perspective, get 00:35:39.730 --> 00:35:43.369 in resonance with that collective unconscious? 00:35:46.750 --> 00:35:50.269 I think it's important to block all that out, 00:35:50.349 --> 00:35:53.130 to limit your screen time, to limit your, did 00:35:53.130 --> 00:35:55.409 you not always have a background noise? Did you 00:35:55.409 --> 00:35:57.769 not always, when you catch yourself of doing 00:35:57.769 --> 00:36:01.889 something all the time, scrolling or you're actively 00:36:01.889 --> 00:36:04.309 searching for distraction, you know, I think 00:36:04.309 --> 00:36:06.349 people search for distraction because there's 00:36:06.349 --> 00:36:08.769 only one way. So distraction is away from you. 00:36:08.849 --> 00:36:11.369 And then there's focusing, which is towards you. 00:36:11.449 --> 00:36:15.409 But if you want to focus towards you, you must 00:36:15.409 --> 00:36:18.619 be. aware that the first thing you will hit is 00:36:18.619 --> 00:36:22.940 pain and pain and pain and pain so i think Yeah, 00:36:22.980 --> 00:36:25.880 working to that pain until you can sit still 00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:28.400 with what you're feeling. So because I think 00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:30.500 we are on so much distraction because we don't 00:36:30.500 --> 00:36:32.579 want to feel. I think distraction is like a feel 00:36:32.579 --> 00:36:36.739 avoidance. So like when you, for example, smoke, 00:36:36.739 --> 00:36:40.119 we say in therapy, you're opening up a side battlefield. 00:36:40.340 --> 00:36:42.239 And, you know, when people smoke and they're 00:36:42.239 --> 00:36:45.440 stressed and they get confronted with a stressful 00:36:45.440 --> 00:36:47.639 situation, first thing they do, they lit a cigarette 00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:49.880 because that puts a distance between you and 00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:52.940 the issue. So in everything we do, every distraction, 00:36:53.119 --> 00:36:55.920 every scrolling on Instagram, it is a distraction. 00:36:56.000 --> 00:36:58.960 It puts like a stop between you and the issue. 00:36:59.139 --> 00:37:01.980 But if you follow yourself, you get trapped in 00:37:01.980 --> 00:37:06.000 your thoughts and you have an unpleasant thought 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:08.840 and then you grab a cigarette or a sip or you 00:37:08.840 --> 00:37:11.219 put on YouTube or Instagram because you want 00:37:11.219 --> 00:37:16.199 to get away from that. Figure out the point you 00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:19.219 scare away from it. And instead of scaring away, 00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.099 stay, stay a little bit longer, stay longer and 00:37:22.099 --> 00:37:24.179 longer and longer and really follow your thought 00:37:24.179 --> 00:37:26.940 until. You're at the source because we're so 00:37:26.940 --> 00:37:28.860 unaware of what we're thinking and we're doing. 00:37:28.900 --> 00:37:31.880 And it's also natural to step away or the people 00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:34.739 who always jiggle, who sit there and their legs 00:37:34.739 --> 00:37:37.059 are always like up and down and up and down and 00:37:37.059 --> 00:37:39.320 up and down. That's like a dysregulated nervous 00:37:39.320 --> 00:37:42.199 system. That's like, okay, what happens if I 00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:44.639 force you to keep your legs quiet? What kind 00:37:44.639 --> 00:37:48.559 of emotions come up with you? So watch yourself 00:37:48.559 --> 00:37:52.320 intensely and also ask other for the opinions. 00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:58.250 What is... strange or obvious in what is worse 00:37:58.250 --> 00:38:01.750 where am i trying to take a side turn or where 00:38:01.750 --> 00:38:05.929 i'm slipping out of the conversation and then 00:38:05.929 --> 00:38:09.909 follow that route sitting with the pain being 00:38:09.909 --> 00:38:12.110 comfortable with discomfort i think it is yeah 00:38:12.110 --> 00:38:16.130 exactly from you exactly yeah so this has been 00:38:16.130 --> 00:38:18.429 a great conversation um to finish and finish 00:38:18.429 --> 00:38:21.409 us off here i'm curious if there's a piece of 00:38:21.409 --> 00:38:23.929 advice that is important to you um that you could 00:38:23.929 --> 00:38:28.110 leave us with yeah basically what i just said 00:38:28.110 --> 00:38:31.989 you know like always follow where it hurts the 00:38:31.989 --> 00:38:35.510 most always go for the direction where your biggest 00:38:35.510 --> 00:38:38.809 fear is or your biggest pain is don't avoid that 00:38:38.809 --> 00:38:42.570 because um it's not for me but i don't know who 00:38:42.570 --> 00:38:45.789 said it but like the the cave you fear to enter 00:38:45.789 --> 00:38:48.929 holds the treasures that you're seeking and that's 00:38:48.929 --> 00:38:53.000 absolutely true Yeah, that's a great one. I think 00:38:53.000 --> 00:39:00.360 that the current worldview is often to just drop 00:39:00.360 --> 00:39:02.320 little bits of gold here and there and then lead 00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:04.980 you away from whatever that bigger treasure is 00:39:04.980 --> 00:39:07.380 because you have to get in the game for it. It's 00:39:07.380 --> 00:39:09.960 all substitutes and it's all about how do I look 00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:12.420 on that picture? If I look happy on that picture 00:39:12.420 --> 00:39:14.699 and everyone thinks I'm happy, then I am happy. 00:39:15.280 --> 00:39:19.559 But it's not true. Yeah, great things we can 00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:22.889 all learn from. Well, Dane, this has been a really 00:39:22.889 --> 00:39:25.070 good conversation. I really appreciate sharing 00:39:25.070 --> 00:39:28.570 some of your earlier life and your experiences 00:39:28.570 --> 00:39:32.210 with the different therapy types and views on 00:39:32.210 --> 00:39:35.170 interior design and just everything that you've 00:39:35.170 --> 00:39:37.289 been contributing so far. So thank you so much. 00:39:37.869 --> 00:39:39.710 Thank you so much. It was lovely.